conceive_v of_o it_o they_o show_v themselves_o in_o their_o colour_n and_o do_v call_v it_o plain_o a_o senate_n neither_o respect_v the_o wisdom_n which_o themselves_o do_v ascribe_v unto_o the_o apostle_n nor_o the_o foresay_a example_n of_o the_o pure_a west_n church_n and_o indeed_o although_o at_o geneva_n the_o name_n of_o the_o consistory_n be_v most_o in_o use_n yet_o i_o guess_v that_o beza_n will_v glad_o bring_v it_o to_o be_v change_v and_o call_v a_o senate_n and_o i_o do_v partly_o so_o think_v because_o in_o his_o print_a book_n of_o excommunication_n he_o have_v leave_v out_o the_o reason_n why_o the_o apostle_n call_v it_o not_o senate_n but_o eldership_n which_o reason_n be_v in_o his_o write_a book_n that_o erastus_n confute_v beside_o also_o oftentimes_o in_o his_o note_n upon_o the_o new_a testament_n he_o term_v the_o form_n of_o that_o government_n by_o the_o name_n of_o ecclesiastical_a senate_n and_o namely_o where_o they_o dream_v it_o be_v command_v by_o 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that_o they_o
you_o of_o we_o or_o lest_o those_o thing_n which_o we_o have_v write_v of_o ecclesiastical_a policy_n proper_o against_o that_o antichristian_a tyranny_n as_o necessity_n require_v be_v take_v by_o some_o in_o that_o sense_n as_o if_o ever_o we_o have_v mean_v to_o compel_v to_o our_o order_n those_o church_n that_o think_v otherwise_o then_o we_o do_v of_o it_o and_o the_o governor_n of_o they_o agree_v else_o with_o we_o in_o the_o truth_n of_o doctrine_n agreeable_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o that_o except_o they_o follow_v our_o order_n we_o account_v otherwise_o of_o they_o then_o their_o godliness_n and_o dignity_n and_o mutual_a brotherhood_n do_v require_v etc._n etc._n far_o be_v this_o arrogancy_n from_o us._n quis_fw-la ullum_fw-la nobis_fw-la in_o ullam_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la imperium_fw-la tribuit_fw-la who_o do_v give_v we_o authority_n over_o any_o church_n farneze_n be_v it_o from_o we_o that_o we_o shall_v think_v so_o the_o substantial_a matter_n be_v keep_v 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etc._n by_o this_o reason_n uz._n that_o the_o nursery_n of_o dissension_n and_o of_o schism_n may_v be_v take_v away_o we_o think_v that_o these_o thing_n which_o be_v ordain_v before_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a concern_v archbishop_n nay_o as_o touch_v the_o four_o patriarch_n may_v be_v excuse_v and_o defend_v when_o this_o book_n be_v peruse_v and_o this_o clause_n find_v in_o it_o then_o forsooth_o a_o devise_n be_v have_v for_o the_o stay_n of_o it_o under_o pretence_n that_o now_o it_o be_v think_v more_o meet_a that_o there_o shall_v be_v a_o harmony_n make_v of_o all_o the_o confession_n of_o diverse_a church_n 218_o but_o zanchius_n himself_o make_v this_o the_o chief_a cause_n if_o i_o understand_v he_o why_o his_o book_n do_v mislike_v some_o of_o they_o for_o that_o he_o have_v write_v as_o before_o be_v mention_v of_o bishop_n for_o so_o he_o say_v magnus_fw-la quidam_fw-la vir_fw-la etc._n etc._n a_o certain_a great_a man_n meaning_n beza_n as_o it_o be_v suppose_v 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confession_n of_o faith_n i_o write_v all_o the_o thing_n in_o it_o of_o a_o good_a conscience_n and_o as_o i_o believe_v so_o i_o free_o speak_v the_o scripture_n teach_v man_n so_o to_o do_v and_o my_o faith_n first_o of_o all_o and_o simple_o do_v rely_v upon_o the_o word_n of_o god_n &_o then_o somewhat_o also_o upon_o the_o common_a consent_n of_o the_o whole_a ancient_a catholic_a church_n if_o the_o same_o be_v not_o repugnant_a to_o the_o scripture_n for_o i_o believe_v that_o what_o thing_n be_v define_v and_o receive_v by_o the_o ancient_a father_n assemble_v in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o lord_n with_o a_o general_a consent_n of_o they_o all_o and_o without_o any_o contradiction_n of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n the_o same_o sure_o although_o they_o be_v not_o of_o the_o same_o authority_n with_o holy_a scripture_n yet_o do_v they_o proceed_v from_o the_o holy_a ghost_n hereof_o it_o come_v to_o pass_v that_o those_o thing_n which_o be_v of_o this_o nature_n neither_o will_v i_o neither_o dare_v i_o with_o a_o good_a conscience_n disallow_v they_o and_o what_o can_v be_v show_v more_o certain_o out_o of_o history_n out_o of_o the_o counsel_n &_o out_o of_o the_o writing_n of_o all_o the_o ancient_a father_n then_o that_o those_o order_n of_o minister_n of_o the_o which_o we_o have_v speak_v have_v be_v ordain_v and_o receive_v in_o the_o church_n by_o the_o general_a consent_n of_o all_o christian_n commonwealth_n and_o who_o then_o be_o i_o that_o shall_v presume_v to_o reprove_v that_o which_o the_o whole_a church_n have_v approve_v this_o be_v true_a and_o religious_a humility_n thus_o all_o grave_n and_o discreet_a godly_a man_n have_v everwritten_v those_o that_o contemn_v all_o the_o learned_a father_n that_o go_v before_o they_o do_v open_a a_o window_n to_o their_o own_o discredit_n by_o those_o that_o shall_v come_v after_o they_o that_o which_o this_o godly_a and_o great_a learned_a man_n ascribe_v to_o the_o
christian_n whosoever_o to_o separat_fw-la himself_o either_o from_o their_o assembly_n or_o from_o the_o receive_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n with_o they_o but_o if_o any_o so_o do_v he_o assign_v he_o his_o place_n among_o certain_a old_a heretic_n olim_fw-la dvae_fw-la fuerunt_fw-la haereticorum_fw-la sectae_fw-la etc._n etc._n in_o time_n pass_v there_o be_v say_v he_o two_o sort_n of_o heretic_n which_o trouble_v the_o church_n great_o the_o one_o sort_n of_o they_o be_v call_v puritan_n the_o other_o donatist_n and_o both_o of_o they_o be_v in_o the_o same_o error_n that_o these_o dreamer_n be_v in_o seek_v for_o a_o church_n wherein_o there_o shall_v want_n nothing_o that_o may_v be_v desire_v therefore_o they_o divide_v themselves_o from_o the_o universal_a society_n of_o christian_n lest_o they_o shall_v be_v defile_v with_o other_o man_n impurity_n but_o what_o come_v of_o it_o dominus_fw-la eos_fw-la cum_fw-la tam_fw-la arroganticoepto_fw-la dissipavit_fw-la the_o lord_n himself_o scatter_v they_o with_o that_o their_o proud_a attempt_n where_o by_o the_o way_n it_o be_v meet_v to_o be_v observe_v that_o a_o man_n may_v stick_v so_o fast_o to_o the_o geneva_n discipline_n as_o he_o may_v prove_v himself_o to_o be_v either_o a_o puritan_n or_o a_o donatist_n or_o both_o master_n beza_n in_o like_a manner_n by_o reason_n of_o some_o opposition_n which_o have_v be_v make_v against_o the_o savoyan_a platform_n be_v grow_v as_o it_o seem_v to_o some_o kind_n of_o moderation_n for_o speak_v of_o the_o pretend_a necessity_n of_o it_o he_o say_v that_o the_o doctrine_n only_o 119._o uz._n what_o we_o be_v to_o believe_v be_v absolute_o necessary_a and_o also_o further_o add_v that_o see_v a_o man_n sometime_o may_v be_v save_v without_o the_o participation_n of_o the_o sacrament_n the_o same_o may_v be_v say_v much_o more_o of_o the_o want_n of_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n now_o very_o we_o be_v to_o thank_v he_o he_o have_v do_v much_o for_o us._n we_o 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&_o while_o they_o be_v in_o babylon_n they_o neither_o have_v temple_n nor_o sacrifice_n and_o yet_o nevertheless_o they_o cease_v not_o to_o be_v the_o people_n of_o god_n and_o the_o same_o may_v then_o be_v say_v much_o more_o of_o the_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n uz._n ecclesias_fw-la ut_fw-la illa_fw-la careant_fw-la tamen_fw-la ecclesias_fw-la verè_fw-la pias_fw-la &_o christianas_n esse_fw-la posse_fw-la si_fw-la doctrinam_fw-la praecipuorum_fw-la dogmatum_fw-la puram_fw-la ac_fw-la sinceram_fw-la habuerint_fw-la that_o the_o church_n that_o want_n that_o discipline_n may_v notwithstanding_o be_v indeed_o godly_a and_o christian_a church_n if_o they_o retain_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o chief_a ground_n pure_a and_o sincere_a now_o if_o beza_n will_v give_v this_o testimony_n of_o a_o church_n that_o want_v both_o his_o discipline_n and_o the_o sacrament_n have_v but_o only_o the_o principal_a ground_n of_o religion_n what_o shall_v he_o say_v of_o those_o church_n which_o have_v not_o only_o a_o better_a discipline_n then_o that_o which_o he_o urge_v but_o also_o the_o say_v sincere_a ground_n with_o the_o doctrine_n &_o true_a use_n of_o both_o the_o holy_a sacrament_n in_o as_o great_a reverence_n at_o the_o least_o as_o they_o have_v they_o at_o geneva_n you_o shall_v hear_v he_o what_o he_o be_v drive_v to_o say_v of_o the_o present_a estate_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n the_o place_n have_v be_v cite_v in_o the_o eight_o chapter_n to_o another_o purpose_n he_o must_v be_v pardon_v to_o come_v in_o with_o his_o if_o because_o any_o thing_n from_o he_o that_o sound_v not_o after_o the_o geneva_n tune_n 111._o be_v very_o much_o but_o if_o the_o church_n of_o england_n say_v he_o be_v underprop_a with_o the_o authority_n of_o bishop_n and_o archbishop_n do_v firm_o abide_v as_o this_o have_v happen_v in_o our_o memory_n to_o that_o church_n that_o she_o have_v have_v man_n of_o that_o order_n not_o only_o worthy_a martyr_n of_o god_n but_o most_o singular_a pastor_n and_o doctor_n fruatur_fw-la sane_fw-la ista_fw-la singulari_fw-la dei_fw-la beneficentia_fw-la quae_fw-la utinam_fw-la illi_fw-la sit_fw-la perpetua_fw-la let_v she_o enjoy_v this_o singular_a goodness_n of_o god_n which_o i_o pray_v she_o may_v so_o do_v for_o ever_o and_o in_o another_o place_n speak_v likewise_o with_o some_o good_a term_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o of_o our_o archbishop_n and_o bishop_n he_o turn_v himself_o clean_o about_o 127._o and_o say_v that_o they_o of_o geneva_n do_v not_o prescribe_v to_o any_o church_n to_o follow_v their_o peculiar_a example_n like_v unto_o ignorant_a man_n who_o think_v nothing_o well_o but_o that_o they_o do_v themselves_o again_o also_o the_o same_o master_n beza_n in_o his_o book_n which_o erastus_n confute_v not_o in_o that_o which_o beza_n have_v since_o publish_v but_o in_o the_o write_a and_o true_a copy_n of_o it_o he_o speak_v in_o this_o sort_n nomine_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la genevensis_n in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o church_n of_o geneva_n to_o those_o that_o account_v the_o genevian_a eldership_n to_o be_v but_o humanum_fw-la commentum_fw-la a_o humane_a devise_n 1._o petimus_fw-la ut_fw-la quemadmodum_fw-la patient_fw-la ferimus_fw-la ipsos_fw-la a_o nobis_fw-la etc._n etc._n dissentire_fw-la we_o desire_v of_o they_o that_o as_o we_o suffer_v they_o patient_o to_o dissent_v from_o we_o etc._n etc._n so_o they_o will_v hear_v we_o modest_o refel_v their_o argument_n nullo_fw-la cum_fw-la ecclesiarum_fw-la preiudicio_fw-la quas_fw-la sibi_fw-la credit_n as_o administrant_fw-la without_o any_o prejudice_n to_o those_o church_n that_o they_o have_v take_v the_o charge_n of_o for_o where_o some_o do_v object_n that_o we_o account_v those_o church_n that_o want_n either_o excommunication_n or_o such_o a_o eldership_n to_o be_v no_o church_n it_o be_v object_v immerito_fw-la deus_fw-la testis_fw-la est_fw-la undeserued_o on_o our_o part_n god_n be_v our_o witness_n and_o it_o be_v much_o more_o a_o slander_n where_o it_o be_v give_v out_o that_o we_o do_v bring_v a_o new_a tyranny_n into_o the_o church_n &_o nostra_fw-la velle_fw-la reliquis_fw-la obtrudere_fw-la and_o endeavour_n to_o obtrude_v our_o form_n of_o discipline_n unto_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n non_fw-fr est_fw-fr ita_fw-la fratres_fw-la it_o be_v not_o so_o brethren_n furthermore_o in_o like_a manner_n in_o the_o same_o place_n afterward_o ibid._n quicunque_fw-la vero_fw-la hanc_fw-la disciplinam_fw-la in_o suis_fw-la ecclesiis_fw-la non_fw-la modo_fw-la inutilem_fw-la verumetiam_fw-la noxiam_fw-la fore_fw-la iudicant_fw-la fruantur_fw-la sane_fw-la svo_fw-la sensu_fw-la etc._n etc._n whosoever_o do_v judge_v this_o discipline_n not_o only_o unprofitable_a but_o hurtful_a to_o their_o church_n let_v they_o enjoy_v their_o own_o sense_n they_o undoubted_o do_v see_v what_o their_o flock_n will_v endure_v neither_o doubt_n we_o but_o that_o man_n of_o so_o great_a 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own_o sceptre_n in_o bezaes_n hand_n there_o this_o pretend_a holy_a discipline_n so_o disgrace_v by_o the_o father_n so_o corrupt_v and_o so_o deface_v there_o she_o reign_v there_o she_o flourish_v and_o there_o she_o be_v magnify_v 49._o the_o church_n of_o geneva_n say_v a_o good_a fellow_n be_v the_o pure_a reform_a church_n forsooth_o in_o christendom_n again_o geneva_n be_v the_o chief_a place_n of_o true_a comfort_n in_o earth_n now_o what_o be_v here_o say_v of_o geneva_n and_o her_o minister_n except_o you_o extend_v it_o to_o all_o other_o church_n and_o minister_n that_o follow_v the_o geneva_n platform_n they_o will_v be_v angry_a with_o you_o and_o think_v themselves_o as_o i_o suppose_v to_o be_v very_o great_o disgrace_v but_o i_o will_v leave_v they_o claw_v one_o of_o another_o and_o come_v to_o the_o apostle_n time_n to_o see_v if_o the_o geneva_n church-government_n may_v be_v find_v out_o amongst_o they_o for_o either_o there_o or_o no_o where_o the_o apostle_n saint_n john_n live_v much_o long_o than_o any_o of_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o apostle_n do_v saint_n jerome_n say_v that_o he_o live_v after_o christ_n passion_n threescore_o &_o eight_o year_n so_o as_o the_o apostle_n time_n after_o the_o large_a account_n be_v not_o further_o to_o be_v extend_v now_o as_o baronius_n collect_v out_o of_o eusebius_n saint_n mark_v be_v bishop_n of_o alexandria_n about_o 19_o year_n and_o die_v about_o the_o thirtith_n year_n after_o christ_n ascension_n so_o as_o saint_n john_n outlived_n saint_n mark_v some_o 38._o year_n after_o this_o reckon_n if_o the_o church_n of_o alexandria_n shall_v have_v depart_v from_o christ_n institution_n and_o so_o clean_o have_v disgrace_v the_o glory_n of_o this_o feign_a eldership_n when_o there_o be_v a_o bishop_n make_v there_o according_a to_o cartwrightes_n assertion_n then_o before_o we_o can_v find_v the_o geneva_n platform_n in_o such_o perfection_n as_o it_o be_v in_o that_o city_n we_o must_v cut_v of_o 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be_v not_o doctor_n when_o he_o write_v in_o this_o sort_n my_o answer_n be_v this_o he_o write_v this_o letter_n about_o the_o same_o time_n that_o he_o begin_v to_o write_v against_o campian_n when_o hè_fw-fr have_v attain_v already_o unto_o such_o ripeness_n of_o judgement_n as_o there_o be_v no_o more_o danger_n he_o shall_v now_o be_v alter_v in_o this_o that_o he_o have_v write_v of_o cartwrightes_n book_n then_o that_o he_o shall_v alter_v hereafter_o from_o that_o truth_n which_o he_o maintain_v about_o the_o same_o time_n against_o campian_n and_o it_o be_v true_a that_o he_o never_o give_v a_o right_a censure_n of_o any_o book_n in_o his_o life_n master_n cartwright_n must_v content_v himself_o with_o it_o and_o so_o must_v his_o follower_n he_o depend_v himself_o too_o much_o upon_o caluin_n and_o beza_n and_o so_o do_v many_o amongst_o we_o upon_o he_o such_o admiration_n of_o man_n person_n and_o of_o their_o learning_n must_v needs_o be_v very_o dangerous_a it_o have_v 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choose_v but_o tell_v they_o that_o the_o ancient_a father_n be_v as_o wise_a and_o learned_a man_n as_o they_o be_v that_o the_o old_a general_a council_n ought_v to_o be_v of_o as_o great_a credit_n with_o any_o but_o mad_a man_n as_o their_o conventicle_n or_o synod_n that_o although_o we_o ought_v to_o depend_v only_o upon_o the_o word_n of_o god_n yet_o for_o the_o interpretation_n of_o it_o we_o may_v as_o safe_o follow_v the_o judgement_n of_o the_o ancient_a father_n of_o the_o first_o general_a counsel_n and_o of_o some_o other_o learned_a man_n as_o of_o any_o of_o their_o chief_a patroness_n and_o master_n that_o howsoever_o our_o own_o man_n do_v think_v of_o themselves_o yet_o they_o be_v no_o better_a than_o other_o man_n nay_o there_o be_v many_o equal_a to_o the_o best_a of_o they_o and_o many_o who_o be_v far_o their_o superior_n and_o i_o take_v it_o that_o he_o show_v himself_o to_o be_v their_o best_a friend_n who_o by_o tell_v they_o their_o want_n can_v bring_v they_o to_o some_o humility_n in_o which_o respect_n master_n cartwright_n be_v to_o thank_v doctor_n whittakers_n for_n signifi_v his_o judgement_n touch_v that_o his_o great_a bundle_n of_o shredde_n which_o some_o rash_a and_o fond_a man_n do_v so_o great_o admire_v it_o be_v most_o certain_a that_o although_o the_o flatter_a of_o parasite_n do_v seem_v to_o be_v pleasant_a yet_o the_o wound_n of_o a_o lover_n be_v much_o more_o profitable_a chap._n xxx_o how_o false_o they_o allege_v the_o ancient_a father_n for_o their_o pretend_a parish_n bishop_n and_o elder_n by_o that_o which_o have_v be_v say_v in_o the_o 5._o chapter_n it_o appear_v unto_o you_o what_o little_a help_n they_o be_v to_o look_v for_o in_o the_o ancient_a father_n towards_o the_o set_n forth_o of_o the_o geneva_n plat_n form_n they_o talk_v of_o certain_a step_n &_o trace_n of_o that_o hare_n in_o they_o but_o more_o they_o confess_v in_o some_o place_n that_o they_o can_v find_v and_o yet_o notwithstanding_o