Bishops over Bishops and their Diocesses of Bishops over Ministers and their Churches and of Ministers ouer their owne Congregations Leaving vnto them not with stāding the Superioritie of the other Pastors that maine and Substantial office of the Pastor which is enough to define and denominate a Pastor And therfore they may make such Pastors as are over whole Prouinces but two such as are over whole diocesses but 26. and yet hold also without any absurditie that their are also as many Pastors besyds as ther are Ministers of a particuler Congregation And though it should be graunted that herein they were deceaued in making Provinciall and diocesme Pastors yet the sorteing of vnproper Pastors with true or the subiecting of true Pastors vnto other sorts of Pastors doth not necessarily make the true Pastors fals soe long as vnder them they performe the name and substantiall duties of true Pastors which all the Ministers of our Church Assemblies doe or by the lawes ought to doe 2. If any hould that the Ministers of perticular Congregations onely are Pastors thē they may without any absurdity hould that they Arch Bishops and Bishops are generall Cōmissioners vnder the King to see that the Pastors doe their duties and in that regard may also Metaphorically and in another sence bee called Pastors as Princes themselves are soe called in good and approued Authors and what absurdity can follow vpon this Or what if they which hould the Ministers of perticular Congregations to bee Pastors could not tell what to make of the office of Arch Bishops and Bishops what 's that to the purpose are not our Ministers and Teachers therfore Pastors because they which shall hould them to bee soe cannot tell what to make of the Calling of Arch Bishops and Bishops 3. Though this should bee yelded vnto him that all Pastors are equall and that the Pastors of perticular Congregations are the highest ordinary Ecclesiasticall officers yet should this make nothing to the confirming of his conceit That our Ministers are not therfore true Pastors and Teachers because then Arch Bishops and Bishops should be excluded for this doth not exclude them from being Commissioners and Visitors in causes ecclesiasticall vnder the King over the Pastors and Churches of such and such Prouinces and Diocesses which is to giue thē their principall honour due 4. Concerning the Teachers office not to contende needlesly with him about the nature and quality therof but to suppose a Teacher in that sence which hee meaneth This may reasonably bee held That some of our Ministers whether Priests or Deacons so called or whether Parsons Vicars Curats or Stipendaries are Pastors and some Teachers That so many of them as haue and vse the gift not onely of doctrine and instruction but of Exhortation are Pastors That those which wanting the power of Exhortation and yet haue vse the gift of instruction and doctrine are such Teachers as hee meaneth And therfore herein also if it should bee yealded vnto him That it were fit that every Congregation should haue both theis offices and that the Teacher should be the Pastors Assistant yet it doth not follow but that in want of sufficient men for both theis offices in every Congregation some may inioy one and some an other For if the Churches of their owne way and constitution may bee without both Pastors Teachers and that for a long time till men may be chosen vnto that office Why may not a Church much more in the like necessity retaine a Pastor without a Teacher or a Teacher without a Pastor Can hee proue by any colour out of Gods word That one cannot bee called vnto or execute the office of a Pastor vntill hee haue a Teacher to assist him or that hee cannot execute the office of a Doctor except hee do it as an actuall assistant of some Pastor If not then is this a most frivolous demaunde when hee askes to whome our Teachers are adioynd for the worke of their Ministery nether doe the places hee quoteth viz. Eph. 4.11 Rō 12.7 proue any such matter 5. As idle and impertinent is that demande which followeth whether the Teachers spoken of Eph. 4.11 must first bee Deacons then Priests promise obeidience to Prelats be silenced and deposed at their pleasures For what if noe such matters bee required of Teachers by Paul either in that or any other place doth it thervpon follow that their submission to such things makes them noe Teachers may not Magistrats others also require some things of Teachers not required by the Apostles but they must needs thervpon become no Teachers But what repugnauncie is their in theis matters to the office of a Teacher To be a Deacon in the intent of our lawes what is it but as himselfe out of our booke of ordination hath in effect published it To read the Seriptures Pag. 31. to pray in the Church to Catechise the Iōger sort to baptize to preach if the Bishop shal think him sitt what is it to bee a Priest or Presbyter in our law hath not himself also taught vs viz. Pag. 32. To haue authoritie to Preach the word and to Minister the holy Sacramentes in the Congregation wher hee shal be appointed what obeidience doe they promise to Prelates in the intent of the lawe but onely in things that they shal judge honest and lawfull and not repugnaunt to the word of God what is it to bee sylenced and deposed but to forbear to Minister publiquly as themselues doe also forbeare vpon the Magistrats pleasure for the Bishops pleasure soe far as they proceede according to the lawes is the Magistrats pleasure otherwise it is but a personall fault And wherein Imarvaile doe any of these acts so oppugne the office of a Teacher that they cannot stand together wher doth Paul forbid any of theis acts vnto the Teacher or if hee should doth euery Act forbidden to a Teacher make him noe Teahcer Fr. Iohn pag. 14. Wheras some alledge that the people were to hear the Scribs and Pharesees sitting in Moses Chayre it is to bee noted that they were Leuits and Priests and therfore had the true offices appointed by Moses This therfore is nothing for a fals Ministery such as theirs is proued to bee further to bee a Pharefye was not to haue a new kinde of Ministery but to bee of a speciall Sect amongst the Iewes that pretended more strict observances of the law and might bee of any Tribe Lastly though the were corrupt yet did the hould that very true Minister must bee from heauen and this haue the forward Preachers acknowledged as T. C. pag. 83. Answere Here absurdly and Childishly hee goeth about to answer such an objection as noe body ever made against any thing contained in the former Argument This Argument onely is vsed in generall to shewe that some corruptions in Ministers and Churches are not of that nature that men should therfore seperate from all
seeing hee saith nothing throughout this in effect that hee hath not all ready saide in some one or other of his former bookes Fr. Ioh. pag. 8. The Ministery of Pastors and Teachers spoken of Eph. 4.11 The 2. Arg. is the ordinary and perpetuall Ministery giuen by Christ to his Church and such as the Princes of the Earth nether may nor ever shall bee able to abolishe seing Christ hath appoynted it to continue to the end of the worlde But the Prelacie Preesthood and Deaconrye of the Church of England is not the ordinarije and perpetuall Ministery giuen by Christ to his Church but such as the Princes of the Earth may and ought to abolish out of their Dominions Rev. 17 16 1. Tim. 2.2 Rom. 13 4. with 1. Kin. 23.3 deu 12.2 Psa 72.1 Therfore the Preesthood Prelacie and deaconrye of the Church of England is not the Ministery of Pastors and Teachers spoken of Eph. 4.11 Answere Idenye the Assumption Vnderstanding by Prelacie Preesthood and deaconrye The ordinary Ministery of our Church Assemblies against which hee propounds to himself to Dispute And aunswer That it is the ordinary and perpetuall Ministery giuen by Christ to his Church and such as the Princes of the Earth are bounde by Gods Lawes to maintaine and protect by their Authoritie And if their bee any corruption in and aboute the same which they ought to abolish that yet they are accidentiall and personall and not soe Essentiall as that they doe Distroy the Ministery The places of Scripture anexed to the Assumptiō for the proofe therof are all abused and profaned for not on of them doth any way soe much as colourablye proue either of the Clauses in the Assumption but only they proue in generall That the Idolatry and Idolatrious Ministery of Antechrist is to be abolished Soe that the man in his symplicitie takes it as graunted That our Ministerye is such an Idolatrious Ministery which is the maine matter in Controuersy and in effect the generall question of his whole booke Fr. Iohn pag 9. The Office of Pastors and Teachers ordayned by Christ in his Testament The. 3. Arg. are such as did or could stand with the offices of the Apostels Prophetes and Euangelists But the offices of the Prelates Priests or deacons of the Church of England are not such as did or could stand with or vnder the offices of Apostles Prophets and Euangelists which if any deny let him shew the Countrary by the Scriptures Light hath no fellowship with darknes nor Christ with Antichrist And suppose the Apostles were a liue in their Persons and were in England It were worth the knowing whether they and the ordinances giuen by them should giue place to the Prelates and their Canons and whether they should be suffred to preach c. without subscribing and conforming Their Canons vrge all vpon paine of Excommunication ipso facto Therfore they are not the Pastors and Teachers ordained by Christ in his nue Testament Answere 1. What a shamelesse man is this to affirme That our Ministery nether did nor could stand with the offices of the Apostles c. and for proofe therof bid vs If we deny it shew the contrary by Scriptures Doth not the burden of prouing by the very lawe of Common Reason ly vpon the accuser If I should in like manner reproch his Ministery say it is a Ministery that standeth vpon Sorcery witch croft and Coniuration and for proofe therof bid him If hee deny it shew the countrary by Scripture were I not worthy at least to bee laughed out of the Scholes This is a sufficient justification of our Ministery that such Malitions aduersaries therof whoe woulde seeme soe expert in the Scriptures are no better able by Scripture to proue their vnchristian accusation 2. It is true that light hath noe followship with darknes nor Christ with Antichrist Yet ther is no light in men in this life but it is mingled with some darknesse and the best Christians that are or euer haue bene since the Apostles times may be infected with some points of Antichristianisme Many of the late Martyrs since the revealing of Antichrist were worthy lights and renoumed Christians and yet the light of many of them was mingled with more darknesse and their Christianitie with more Antichristianisme then can be founde in our Ministery 3. Our Bishops haue as good reason to make the like supposition against him and as much worthy the inquirie that were if the Apostles c. were a liue now in their owne Persons where hee liueth and should professe the Church Assemblies in Englande to be true Churches and their Ministery in generall to be a lawfull Ministery and their worship for substaunce to bee a true worship whether M. Iohnson and his Church would suffer them to be soe much as priuate members of their Society much more to preach c. 4. Though our Bishops should herein be soe impious as to advance in such a manner their owne Authority and ordinances aboue the Apostles Yet what is that to proue that the Preesthoode and Deaconry of the Ministers of our Church Assemblies who many of them in theis pointes are meere patients and esteeme of theis things as burdens cannot stand with the offices of Apostles c. doth M. Iohnson think that none of our Ministers in England would suffer the Apostles to preach in their Cures without wearing a Surplice If they might haue their owne wils or should this any whit derogate from their Ministery that the Bishops therin would not suffer them to haue their will 5. It is besids the present question and a needlesse thing to spend time in justifying the Canons herein If the Bishops therin haue gonne too far it may seeme to bee the fault of the Parsons rather then of the Prelacie it selfe and therfore to make and vrge such Canons and Traditions as are a fore saide doth not proue but that for all that the Prelacie in of it selfe might stand well enough with the offices of the Apostles c. for those offices may of themselues If their bee noe other impediment stand well one with an other which in the actions therof doe not but by accident only one overthrowe or oppugne the other Fr. Iohn pag. 9.10 The offices of true Pastors The 4. Arg. and Teachers are by the ordinaunce of Christ set in the Church and imployd in the Ministery of the word Sacraments Church Gouerment soe as they may not with their Ecclesiasticall functions receaue Cyvill offices and callings nor take vpon them princely Titles and dignities Eph. 4.11 1. Pet. 5.1 Rom. 12.2.4 Luk. 12.14 and 22.25 1. Cor. 12.5.8 1. Tim. 4.13.15.16 2. Tim. 2.4 But the officies of Prelates Priests and Deacons of the Church of England are not soe but by their owne Constitution we set in the Church and imployd in the Ministery soe as they may also receaue Cyvill offices and Callings as to be Iustices of Peace c.
directly and properly belonge to the Civill Magistrate and not to Antichrist But by vsurpation And whether his vsurpation of this office can make it a part of his Apostasie in those places where it is restored againe to the Supreame Magistrate 7. Whether the Supreame Magistrate recerving this his right from Antichrist and together with it happily taking also to himselfe some thing also that belonges to the Kingdom of Antichrist executing the same either in his owne person or by others together with his owne lawfull right whether I say this doe destroy his owne lawfull right and whether the subiect is ever the lesse bounde to subject themselues vnto the same right either in his owne person or his substitute Hither to hee hath indevoured to proue the Proposition of the first Argument wherby hee would confirme the Assumption of his 2. reason and now hee sets vpon the profe of the Assumption Namely That the present Ministery of the Church Assemblies of Englande is the Ministery of Deacons and Priests ordained by the Prelats ther vnto This hee saith is proued by the Canons constitutions obseruation of our Church And this hee confirmeth first by a longe tedious and idle rehersall of the forme of ordination of our Ministers bestowing cost to print in a manner our whole booke of ordination 2. By certaine of the late Canons pressing subscription conformity and an acknowledgement of the lawfulnes of the calling of Bishops and of their ordination 3. By certaine sharpe speeches of some Martyrs and of some others of our owne Nation against the Arch-Bishops Bishohs other of the cleargy of their times In the relation of which pointes hee spends some 5 leaves wherin still hee runs in a circle begging one of his arguments to proue an other So that one of his Arguments are as good as all and all no better then one This may suffice for answere 1. That if all particulars mentioned in the booke of ordination should bee strictly and precisely practized as alwayes they are not yet ther is not one clause in the whole forme of ordination by him cited that doth necessarily argue them which are so ordained to bee true and proper Priests and Deacons But if ther were and if also the Ministers ordained were anointed with oile if their crownes were shawen and they had power giuen to offer the abhominable Idole of the Masse yet this is not sufficient to argue that their Ministery is the Ministery of Priests c. except in their Ministery they should execute the same If their owne Church should ordaine one to the Ministery of a Pastor and should in their ordination require him only to preach the worde sincerely and to administer the Sacraments according to Christs institution and yet in his practis and execution hee should do nothing but sing Masse and Mattens and they should accept of this Ministery and no other at his hands would any that is in his wits say that this mans Ministery is the Ministery of a Pastor because hee was in formality of words ceremonies ordained to that office how much lesse can any say that our Ministery is the Ministery of Priests when they doe not only execute any such office but the clean contrary and when in their ordination not so much as any parte of a Priests office properly so taken is assigned vnto them but only the name and not so much as their name in their orders written in Latin which are to interpret the meaning of the English worde 2. Though the Ministers should doe all things required by the canons and should bee every way answerable vnto them And though the Testimonies of our Martyrs and others were yealded to bee true yet must hee streiue hard that can from either or both argue that our Ministers are indeede Priests except in a Metaphoricall and borrowed speech The other Arguments wherby hee proueth the maine Assumption of the 2. Reason viz. That the Ministery of the Church Assemblies of England is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasy followe Fr. Iohn The Ministery of the Prelacie professing it selfe to bee Christs The 2. Arg. and yet standing in such an estate as it doth not obey Iesus Christ in his ordinance of Ministery worship and gouerment of the Church as their Prophet Priest and King is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasy Such is the present Ministery of the Church Assemblies of Englande Ergo It is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasy Answere To the Proposition I answer That not onely the Ministery of the Prelates but of a Presbytery or any Church whatsoever that stands in such an estate is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostacie And not onely the Ministery of the Prelats but any other Ministery els vpon earth may stand in such an estate as that it may in diuers and sundry Perticulers of ignorance or infirmity disobey Christ in his owne ordinances of Ministery worship and gouerment of the Church and in that respect and so far forth bee the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasy yet bee also the Ministery of Iesus Christ Hee proues the Proposition by 19. places of Scripture to as much purpose as if by as many Testimonies hee should proue that it is day lighte at high noone Except hee meane That that is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasie doth not in euery perticuler obey Christ in his owne ordinances of Ministery But which his 19. proofes haue no more force to proue it then to proue that their is a man in the moone as any may see that hath nothing els to doe but to examine them 2. I deny the Assumption The Ministery of our Church Assemblies though it bee ordained by the Prelats and bee subject vnto them yet it is not their Ministery but the Ministery of Iesus Christ They preaching his worde administring his Sacraments And it doth if it bee answerable to the law obey Christ in all the maine essentiall parts of his owne ordinaunce of Ministery c. And in all other points for ought hee can proue to the contrary as far as the Lord hath revailed the truth vnto them which exercise the same But saith hee the Assumption is evident by that which hath bene said in the 1. Reason and their Constitution it selfe shewes it in that they are so farre from obeing Christ in his ordinances of Ministery c. as that they execute the Ministery and gouerment of an other Arch Bisschop L. Bishop then Christ of an Arch-Deacon Parson Vicar c. as also in their reading prayers out of a booke and observing other humaine inventions and in their Church Gouerment according to Canons Courts c. which were neuer appointed by Christ To omit that here againe hee begs his first reason to proue his seconde If the Assumntion haue noe better evidence the evidence is fals as I haue made it evident in the Answer to the first reason Nether hath hee there or els where in any of those other of their wrightings which hee sends
same kinde and therfore well may hee passe by this point This is but a peece of his simple thetoricke carelesly to seeme to passe by that which hee cannot proue For how many Errors can hee name or number that hee is able to justify to be taught in the Ministery of our Church Assemblies what one truth of Religion can hee name that is not or hath not bene when just occasion hath bene offred taught by some of our Ministers I am not ignorant that in his treatises against M. A. H. and M. H. I. hee mustreth a whole troup of pretended Errors but suppose them to bee so many destinct Errors how doth hee proue they are taught in our Ministery or that they are required by law to bee taught Ther is indeed a Conformitie and Subscription required to some of them and a Canon that requires that the late Canons bee reade in Churches some times in the yeare as also that the booke of Articles bee read at the first entrance vpon an Ecclesiastical Church with a testification of assent vnto it But is this Ministerially to teach the Errors contained in the said bookes May not a man in the weacknesse of his judgement and in infirmitie at his first entrance into a calling conforme and subscribe vnto some things not so warantable and true and yet not teach them for truths yea may hee not for all that teach doctrin in it selfe directly countrary to those vntruths yea and yet satisfie also the minde of the law which being humaine and therfore not alwaies perfect may commaunde that very truth to bee taught which being thorowly followed will destroy some vntruths which the same law also requires Further it is one thing to reade the Canons to the people therby to declare vnto them what is required at their hands by their Governors another thing to teach and justifie the Errors countained in them and to testifie an assent vnto some Errors is not Ministerially to instruct the people in those Errors 2. Though it bee noe nue thing that the Ministers of Antichrist should in divers things bring the truth with them Yet this is a nue thing and never hard of before That the Ministers of Antichrist should teach the wholl truth of Christ Iesus for the substāce therof That they should oppose directly and zealously against the maine and foundamentall doctrins of Antichrist That they should professe him to bee Antichrist and that man of sinne and to the sheeding of their blood should exercise their Ministery against Antichrist and his kingdome protesting against him and his Service were it not nue straunge that a man should bee counted a true Subject vnto a Prince then when hee doth openly protest against him Counting him a vsurping Tirant and imploying all the wit power and strength hee hath against him such subjects of Antichrist are our Ministers or by the lawes such they ought to bee Could hee bee said to bee a Minister of Christ that yealding to some externall kites and professing some doctrines of Christian faith doth not withstanding directly openly and professedly renounce Christ and his Seruice and professe himselfe to bee an enemie to him and his Kingdome If it hould not in the one it is not both a nue and strang thing that it should hould in the other 3. M. Iohnson out of his knowledge must teach vs how Sathan can be said by teaching the truth to vtter his owne Ministery or worship or how a Sathanicall Ministery can be vttered when in and by the Ministery nothing but the truth of Christ is administred what is the Ministery of Sathan but the Ministery of Error how can the Ministery of Error bee vttered by teaching the Truth or how can a Ministery be said to be vttered by a truth when it is the Ministery it selfe that vttereth the truth Surely noe more then a Marchandize can bee said to bee vttered by selling of wares and were it not a wonder if a man should vtter his bad Marchandice by selling good sound wares Sathan and Antichrist indeed together with some truths seeke to vtter much falshoode which otherwise they knowe would not be receaued And many of our Ministers are content to yeald to some things which they judge not so counvenient if it did otherwise some good to the State to the end they may vtter the truth But that like Antichrist and Sathan our Ministers should propound this vnto themselues to teach some truths to this end that they might therby vtter falshood and lies fals Ministeries worships is a Malitious imputation and can never bee justified Obj. Beza saith Though Antichrist teach the truth which sometimes hee doth to the end hee may more easily seduce to beleeue his lies yet wee are to stoppe our eares against him least vnder his pretence wee bee deceaved by him pag. 76. Ans Well but it is yet to proue That our Ministers are Antichrists and that they teach the truth to any such wicked intent the contrary is manifest when many of them in regard of the times are countent to yealde to some colourable vntruths that they might therby purchase libertie vnto themselues to aduance the truth of Christ They yeald to some things in appearance Antichristian that they might with more libertie fight against Antichrist Obj. Who knoweth not that Antichrist and his Ministers are hipocriticall frends to Christ vnder the name of Christ fighting against him Ans But who knoweth not that our Ministers if they bee such as our lawes require them to bee are sworn enemies to Antichrist and in the name of Christ and vnder some of Antichrists owne Rites doe fight against him and resist him vnto blood And who knoweth not that many of them haue died for Christ at the foot of Antichrist THE SIXT ARGVMENT IF the present Ministery of the Church of Englande bee a strange Ministery then is it not lawfull in the worship of God to heare it or haue any Spirituall communion therwith But such is the Ministery of the Church Assemblies of England Therfore it is not lawfull in the worship of God to heare it or haue any Spirituall Communion therwith The Assumption is manifest for a strange Ministery is that which is not by the law ordained and giuen for that worke as themselues here to fore haue published and as is proued in the first Reason Answere This Reason differreth not in substance from divers of the former for what is it to bee a strang Ministery but to be a Ministery that is not set by Christ in his Church which is his 1. Reason But to bee a Ministery which deriveth not the power and function from Christ which is his 4. Reason But to bee a Ministery that worketh vpon mens consciences by virtue of a fals Spirituall calling which is his 5. Reason Might hee not with as greate facility out of this method of reasoning haue brought forth 7000. Reasons as theis seaven But how doth hee proue the Assumption of his reason
from the 12. Arguments And therfore they are noe wise guilty of his schisme nor doe any wayes herein this place patronize the same THE THIRD REASON TAKEN OVT OF THE TWELVE Arguments the London Ministers exceptions and the Abridgement c. EXAMINED Fr. Iohn IF such bee the State of the Ministery of the Church Assemblies of England as they are bound in their Ministration vnto such things as the vsing of them in Church Service in manner and forme prescribed is a will-worship a giving of specially honour to Antichrist and his members a performing of honours more then Civill even Religions onely to a humaine power a warranting of the like vse of Iewish Turkish Paganish or Popish observations a doing of Scysmaticall Actions an hauing of Spirituall Communion with Papists in the Misteries of their Idolatry and Superstition Amingling of prophane things with divine an vsing of vnlawfull things in divine worship An administring of Sacraments that are not of divine institution A solemne acknowledging of Speciall homage to the Spirituall vsurped authoritie of Lord Bishops an vsing of humaine Traditions in Gods worship as necessary to salvation an apparent meanes of the damnation of many Soules An observing of a lieturgy which in the wholl matter and forms therof is too like vnto the masse booke c. Then is it not lawfull to communicate with the Ministers in their Ministery But such is the estate of the Ministery of the Church Assemblies of Englande Therfore it is not lawfull to communicate with them therin Answere M. Iohnson thinks surely that in this Argument hee hath out of our owne writings for ever disgraced our Ministery But whether here or in the Arguments following he deale faithfully with our writers I know not his bad dealing in this kinde wee haue discoured in part before and doth most evidently appeare in one perticuler following wherein hee most shamfully and lewdly as a man void of all common honesty and grace maketh the Ministers of Lincolne to affirme See pag. 98. That the Prelats are reveiled to bee great Antichrists and their Ministery and constitution to bee great troublers of the Church at this day and that it cannot but bee very sinfull and hurtfull to retaine or communicate with them The Devill himselfe would haue bene a shamed in this open manner to haue tould such a ly and therfore hee is to bee trusted no further then hee is seene And herein his lewdnesse is the more to bee suspected That wher hee rehearseth many harsh bitter and vnsauory speaches against our Ministery and worship as written by some of our selues that retaine communion with the Ministery and worship of our Church Assemblies Hee doth not quote the perticuler places but onely refers vs to the Authors in generall as though we had nothing els to doe but to reede ouer wholl bookes to finde out his Allegations or that wee must take them vpon his word to bee faithfully reported But let vs suppose that our men haue so written yet ther is noe consequent in the Proposition For what if our Ministery were bound to say Masse to sing Mattins To worship the Virgin Mary To acknowledge the Popes Supremacie c. yet for all that it might bee lawfull to Communicate with our Ministers in their Ministery Except that in the execution of their Ministery they submitted vnto that which they were bound vnto It being one thing to bee bound and another thing to fulfill the bonde he might contrarily with as much witt and vnderstanding haue reasoned thus If this bee the estate of the Ministery of the Church Assemblies of Rome that they are bound in their administration to the renouncing of Antichrist and all his Idolatry offices and will-worship to conforme onely in their Ministery to the Gospell of Iesus Christ and to such or dinances as are agreable to the same then it is lawfull to communicate with them in their Ministery and worship M. Iohnson would quickly discerne the inconsequence of this Proposition And why because in the execution of their Ministery they fulfill not this bound And yet hee cannot deny but that they are by a stranger bond even a divine bond bounde vnto this then our Ministers to the contrary The consequent hee saith is proued by the Ministers of Lincolneshire Abridgement pag. 17. But to passe by his depraving of them before touched noe such matter can bee concluded from the words which hee here citeth yea though hee had dealt faith-fully in the citation of them For though it should bee graunted that some act of spirituall fornication should bee donne in our Ministery That wee are to seperate from Idolators and Antichristians and to bee as vnlike them as may bee in their religious observations Though God doe beare a detestation of Idolatry and all the Inticements therof as vnto speciall whoredome Though wee ought to bee a shamed of the monuments of Idolatry and cast them away with detestation Though wee should bee in some danger by them to bee corrupted in Religion by conforming vnto Idolators in their Ministery and worship Though keeping communion with such Ministers should be a speciall meanes to harden them in their sins Though the Prelats were revealed to bee great Antichrists Though the Godly learned haue constantly taught that Christians are bound to forsake and cast of the Ministration Ceremonies and religious customes of Pagan Iewes Antichristian Idolators and Hereticks and carefully to shum all conformity with them therin Yet it doth not therupon follow That if the Ministers of our Church Assemblies bee bound as a foresaid that then it is not lawfull to communicate with them in their Ministery M. Iohnson therfore must bee put to this paines To proue this consequent For further profe of the former consequent he bringeth six Reasons more out of his owne ould and fusty horn of store which proue the consequent just a baculo ad augulum To which it shall bee needlesse to giue aunswer they being profes clean besids the purpose of theis reasons which is to justify their schisme by grounds taken from our owne writings The Consequent then of the Proposition being evidently fals The Assumption though it should haue never so much ground from our owne writings wil stande him in noe stead THE FOVRTH REASON TAKEN OVT OF THE ADMOnitions to the Parlament EXAMINED Fr. Iohn IF the Offices of Arch Bishops Arch Deacons Lord Bishops Suffraces Parsons Vicars c. bee Antichristian and contrary to the Scriptures then the people of God may not communicate with them in their Ministery Ergo The first is true The later also Answere The Consequent is fals and hee goeth not about to proue it by any thing taken out of our owne writings but by a stale profe that hath bene answered before and therfore it requires noe answer onely thus much of free bountie That the offices of Arch Bishops c. quatenes tales are not of the essence of the Ministery of our Church Assemblies but meere Accidents The Assumption
therfore will stand him in noe steed whether it bee true or fals and therfore I leaue it to their maintenance from whom hee saith hee borroweth it THE FIFT REASON TAKEN OVT OF THE offer of Conference EXAMINED Fr. Iohn IF the Propositions propounded to bee maintained in the offer of Conference bee true To avoid tediousnes I forbeare to set them downe as M Iohnson hath done but thou shalt discern what they are afterward in the Answer then is it not lawfull to heare or haue any speciall Communion with the present Ministery of the Church Assemblies of Englande But those Propositions are true Ergo It is not lawfull to haue any Speciall Communion with the same Answere The Consequent is fals doth not follow from the said Propositions 1. Though it should be graunted That all matters meerely Ecclesiasticall lawfully imposed vpon any Church are such as may bee concluded necessarily from the written word of God Yet in a true constituted Church some matters meerely Ecclesiasticall may bee imposed through humaine frailty that cannot so bee concluded 2. Though all humaine ordinances vsed onely or specially in Gods worship whervnto they are not necessary of themselues were simply vnlawfull Yet is not every such humaine ordinance of that nature that it maketh the Church and Ministery wher it is vsed to bee a fals Church and Ministery much lesse those Churches and that Ministery wherin it is not vsed but injoined onely 3. Though it were generally graunted of all That every true visible Church of Christ is such a Spirituall body politick as is specially instituted by Christ or his Apostles in the new Testament Yet it will not thence follow That those Churches and Ministeries are not to bee communicated withall that haue any thing in or appertaining to the constitution therof not instituted by Christ or that such Churches are not true visible Churches 4. Though every true visible Church of Christ or ordinary Assemblie of the faithfull hath by Christs ordinance power in it selfe immedialy vnder Christ to elect and ordaine deprive and depose their Ministers and to execute all other Ecclesiasticall Censures Yet will it not follow from thence That all they are fals Churches and not to bee communicated with all That doe not or by the lawes of man are not suffred to vse that power Nether is it sure the meaning of them who offer the Conference To maintaine That they are no true visible Churches of Christ that cannot vse that power but are therein subject to others for one may by Christs ordinance haue a power to doe that which yet in regard of man he hath noe power to doe 5. Though the Pastor of a perticuler congregation should be yealded to bee the highest ordinary Ecclesiasticall officer in any true constituted visible Church of Christ Yet cā it not hence bee concluded That those Pastors are fals Pastors who are outwardly by mans lawes subjected to a Superior Ecclesiastical officer The Father ordinary is the highest officer in the family yet if the Magistrate subject the father in some matters appertaining to the family to another Though therin it may bee hee may doe the father some wrong yet doth not the father therby become a fals father or the family a fals family Admitte then that this prerogatiue due to Pastors to haue noe Spirituall officers superior vnto them yet is it not so essential vnto him that without the Actuall vse and possession of it hee cannot bee a true Pastor And yet take a true visible Church in that sence which the officers of the conference doe viz. for a perticuler ordinary Assembly or Congregation And then in our owne Churches The Pastor is the higest ther being noe Ecclesiasticall Officer in any such Churches a boue him 6. Graunt this That it is the office of every true Pastor to teach and Governe Spiritually one Congregation immediately vnder Christ Can it from hence bee concluded That they are noe true Pastors which governe more congregations then one or which are subject in some outward things to some others besids Christ 7. Admit That the offices of Provinciall and diocesan Bishops were contrary to the word of God must it needs ther vpon follow That those Ministers and Churches which are vnder them by the lawes of man are fals such especially who obey them onely in things which they judge honest and lawfull and who vnder this subjection doe no more then they would doe if they were not subject at all vnto the Bishops A man must therfore bring a better head wit with him then M. Iohnsons That by the Propositions of the offer of Conference how harsh soeuer they may seeme to bee can conclude it vnlawfull to joine and communicate with our Church Assemblies For the profe of this consequent he bringeth nothing out of our owne writings but onely to giue his reader therby a vomit some of his owne Coleworts not twise but twise twenty times sodden To which wee giue him leaue to looke an Answer from some as idle headded as himselfe THE SIXT ARGVMENT TAKEN OVT OF DIvers Treatises Answered This Proposition being a whol leaf in his booke I forbeare any further anser downe there being in effect little difference in the matter from that which hee hath formerly brought Fr. Ihon. IF the is Assertious bee true That that Church calling for which the Scripture giue noe expresse warrant is meerely vsurped and vtterly vnlawfull That as it is not lawfull to bring in any strange doctrin so is it not lawful to teach the true doctrine vnder the name of any other function then is instituted by God c. But the aforesaid Assertions are true Therfore it is vnlawful to haue communiō with that Ministery Answere This Argument being a collection out of our writers doth not differ from the former as himselfe graunteth and therfore needs noe further Answer The Consequent is fals and hee proues it not by any of our owne writers as hee ought to doe but stil brings vs profes out of his owne musty Aumbry The Assumption therfore borrowed out of our owne writers will doe him noe pleasure THE SEAVENTH REASON TAKEN OVT OF THE twelue Arguments viz. the tenth EXAMINED Fr. Iohn IT is a sinne against Christ the sole head of the Church to haue spirituall communion with those Ministers which in their Administratiō of divine things do either by word or deed solemly professe and yeald a spirituall homage to an vsurped spirituall Authoritie in the Church But so do the Ministers of the Church Assemblies of England Ergo It is a sinne to haue communion with the same Answere The Proposition is fals And hath noe ground from that Proposition in the 12. Arguments vnto which hee would match and forth of which hee would draw it The Proposition there is this It is a sinne against Christ the sole head of the Church for any one of his Ministers especially in the administration of divine things either by words or signes