of Nazianzene And therefore that implyes no soueraigntie p. 161. 162. c. Vide Procop. in Esa 17. 6. duos tresue 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 atque 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 elicientem Apostolos idque ex verbis Prophetae vt sibi videtur Nominatque vt Nazianzenus Petrum Iacobum Iohannem 79. Pastor a word of basenesse with S. Basil And yet alleadged out of Chrysostome to prooue Peters supremacy by the Adioynder p. 164 80. The Pope alone is not entrusted with the care of conuerting infidell countries to the Faith ibid. 81. Both the Cardinall and the Adioynder corrupt S. Chrysostome foysting the word caput into his Text where there is none in the Greeke And then beeing caught he carps at our men for taking vpon them as he calls it to set out the Greek Fathers A theife displeased with Candle-light p. 165. c. 82. The comparison that S. Chrysostome makes betweene Peter and Ieremy in respect of the latitude of their iurisdictions it aduantageth not the Pope p. 168 83. Whether Peter might create an Apostle of his owne head in the place of Iudas without consulting the communitie It seemes not both by S. Chrysostome and otherwaies though the Adioynder from thence would prooue the Popedome p. 169. 84. More proofes of the Adioynders good skill in Latine The Bishops booke pushes him away with the very style and penning of it tanquam cornibus whiles hee offers to refute it p. 170. 85. Sermones de Tempore neuer so intitled by S. Austen A doubtfull worke and carrying small validitie in it Full of fowle Latine and fonder sense is the Sermon quoted by the Cardinall p. 172 86. Miserable shifts of the Adioynder to defend them ibid. 87. As iust as Germans lippes nine miles asunder The Eue falls out three daies before the holy day and at another time fourteen yeares before the Feast the Adioynders rauing computations p. 173 88. Peters fall was to asswage his fiercenesse beeing a chollericke man And though it were also to encline him to pitty yet without any inference of the Popedome from thence pittie beeing a generall vertue for all Ministers and dealers in Soule-matters besides that Paul was toucht with as deep a sence of his infirmities and remorse for bad courses formerly vsed as any of them all Tit. 3. 1. Tim. 1. 15. Eph. 2. 3. 4. And yet both Bellarmine and the Adioynder are not ashamed to raise such an vnlikely consequence from the fall of Peter for want of better proofe to conclude his Supremacy p. 174 89. Praeferri cunctae Ecclesiae is farre short of the Primacie that they contend for Common also not to the Apostles onely but to all Bishops in generall by Origens iudgement p. 174 90. The Reuerend Bishop not to be taught by the Adioynder how to censure the falls and infirmities of Gods Saints p. 175 91. Appeales to the Pope out of Affrica for bidden vnder paine of Excommunication in a lawfull Synod whereof S. Austen was one p. 176. 177 92. The Fathers words are not supplicatorie but peremptorie against Appeales though preseruing their reuerence as to a worthy Sea and the parties that sate in it otherwise godly men and like enough to be aduised by them p. 178 93. The Bishop forgeth not but the Adioynder slauereth and slaundereth as he is wont All Appeales out of Affrica are interdicted Not only Priests but Bishops too and the Bishops most of all p. 180 94. The Adioynders slight exceptions against this are answered p. 181. 182 95. His monstrous sliding away from the state of the question to fight with an imaginary shadow of his owne And yet therein also he is not onely vnsound but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hee contradicts himselfe in his second instance most apparantly p. 182. 183. 96. Pope Zozimus his drawing of S. Austen to Caesarea to dispatch Church-businesses is no argument of the ones vniuersall authoritie but rather of the others rare sufficiencie Traxit compulit coegit is for equalls as well as for Superiours p. 184. 185. Adde ex S. Prospero Praef. lib. ad Excerpta Genuens de Camillo Theodoro Presbyteris quibus obsequium deferens simplicitatem obedientiae sibi tribuit tantus Episcopus 97. Liberius his letters in behalfe of certaine false dissembling Arrians to the Councell of Tyana for their restitution to which also the Councell yeelded prooue not that the Bishop of Rome is of such authoritie as he must needs be obeyed but that he is not so discerning but he may be gulled and cheated as he was by those hypocrites Reasons out of S. Basil why the Bishops of that Councell had respect to Liberius nothing to the Supremacie First because the abuse springing from those parts in receiuing Eustathius to grace vndeseruing reason it was that from thence also should come the reformation Secondly to auoide the suspition of emulation and home-bred quarrells which is incidenter between Bishops of the same Country then between forreiners Thirdly to fortisie the proceedings in the cause by the concurrence of many Bishops c. p. 186. 187 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Chrysost At Ecclesiast 12. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Quod referunt huc 98. The Bishops that the Adioynder saies Iulius restored Sozomen saies plainly they were restored by the Emperour Yet happily Iulius was not slacke in the cause to do his best endeauours as becommeth euerie godly Bishop of Christendome according to the abilities that his place affoardeth him And so may we construe Omnium curam gerens Quis scandalizatur ego non vror as it came not from Peter so it belongs to all that are zealous in their rancke The Greekes thinke much that they should come behind the Romans because of the amplitude of that Church where as they presume for certaine that they excell them in piety and vertuous life Lastly they are so hardie as to threaten Iulius for transgressing of the Canons p. 188. 189. 99. Damasus his titles the Adioynders tattles frothie stuffe to conclude for Monarchie p. 189. 190 100. Damasus his gouerning the house of God His letters for Peter of Alexandria ibid. 101. Damasus takes in hand Vitalis an Antiochian heretike to examine him but by the permission of Paulinus his own Bishop So may any body Prescribe a proud word of the Adioynders weauing in cleane besides the truth of the text Damasus confesseth that Paulinus could doe as much as himselfe in the matter but onely to shewe consent between Bishops c. p. 191. 102. The Adioynders buskin tearmes are opened Flauianus his pretended restoring by Damasus was nothing but their mutuall returning to agreement after a priche the manner being in those times for two dissenting Bishops to forbeare the communion of one another till reconciliation and clearing of matters c. p. 192 103. Of Pope Siricius That the Councell of Capua committing to him the small hearing of acause makes for the Councels
vnitie for for that cause hee chose one and as in diuerse other things Peter had the preheminence but yet with others as Iames and Iohn 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 more primi then Peter where more might be vsed so here where but one could be employed in the businesse the rest beeing slipt ouer Peter was thought the meetest to be the modell of vnitie because in some prerogatiue hee might passe those primos or perhaps it was the secret of our Sauiours brest Are you so little acquainted with the libertie of Gods actions or reserue you nothing for our knowledge in the world to come This to your obiection § 8. Now marke what we gather out of S. Austens text First Some things there are seeming to belong to Peter which can make no cleare sense but when they are construed of the Church This is flat against you that would haue Peter such a figure of the Church forsooth as yet to occupy a certain place of his owne and what is giuen to Peter should be giuen to the Church and what to the Church the same to Peter But some things saies S. Austen are said to Peter which can haue no pregnant construction but of the Church Secondly amidst those some things is Tibi dabo claues S. Austen vseth this very example which you would fain haue to be ingrossed by Peter as if the keyes had personally beene deliuered to him and in his owne right which S. Austen denies Thirdly Si qua alia if there be any more There may bee more then as Pasce oues No doubt this must be one by his owne exposition before de Agone Christiano c. 30. Fourthly that he bare indeed personam ecclesiae but in figurâ which you had pared off Not by power of his place or authoritie permanent but culld out before the rest by our Lord for that end to signifie vnitie Fiftly that primatus was not the primacie of magistracy euen that declares that he saies the keyes were promised to him propter primatum So that first the primacie then the keyes And his primacie among the Apostles was a motiue-cause to promise him the keies in the name of the Church whereas else primatus and the keies had gone together and as soone as primatus so soone the keies But now they are promised him for some specialty in him Not for office then as you would haue it Sixtly as Iudas sustained the person of the wicked sustinuit a more powerfull word then gestauit and much more then significauit which is said here of Peter and yet but quodam modo so shie is S. Austen so farre from the iurisdiction that you build vpon Tullies Offices so Peter of the Church As Iudas of the one so Peter of the other saith S. Austen which is no authoritatiue primacie you may bee sure vnlesse Iudas shall haue a generation of Successors now as well as Peter and which is more damnable of holy Scriptures institution If any such were who more likely then the Pope that holds by the purse which Iudas carried and troubles all the world for Supremacy in Temporalls But neither Iudas then nor the Pope now Else Peter should haue been head vnder Iudas his head doe you like this when he went so farre as to scandalize our Sauiour and deserued the name of Sathan at his hands Was Peter then vnder Iudas his iurisdiction yet no doubt far gone in that part which Iudas bare the person of by S. Austens saying For so we read in his Alia expositio of the same Psalme Cuius populi diximus Iudam in figurâ gessisse personam sicut ecclesiae gessit Apostolus Petrus Your grauitie perhaps will say that this is reproach for so chap. 4. num 33. But we doe but argue and I pray who giues the cause Quacunque scripta sunt propter nos scripta sunt Rom. 15. § 9. To omit that Prosper vpon the same Psalme Prosper Leo's secretarie and S. Austens scholler tunes it yet in a higher key making Iudas not onely beare the person of the wicked which you construe so imperiously as we haue now heard but he saies in plaine tearmes Iudas primatum gessit inimicorum Christi Iudas bare the primacie of Christs enemies which I trust you will not expound how impudent soeuer that Iudas was made chiefe magistrate ouer Christs enemies no more then was Peter ouer Christs friends § 10. YOV quote farther S. Austen in his 13. serm de verbis Domini secundum Matth. out of which you haue these words Petrus à Petrâ cognominatus c. which moreouer you thus english Peter taking his name from a rocke was happy bearing the figure of the Church hauing the principalitie of the Apostleship Of which anon as it serues your turne In the meane time you may see what varietie of words S. Austen hath to set out the meaning of his gerere personam both here and elsewhere Though here he doth not vse so much as the word personam but figuram onely which is a great deale lesse or rather makes all besides to be iust nothing But as I began to say see a little I pray you his store of words to giue you his right sense about gerere personam that you dreame not alwaies of Magistrates in Tullies Offices Admonet nos intelligere mare praesens saeculum esse Petrum verò Apostolum ecclesiae vnicae typum He giues vs to vnderstād that the sea is this present world and Peter the Apostle a type or instance of the onely Church The same againe de baptismo contra Donatist l. 3. c. 17. In type vnitatis as afore of the Church so now of charitie but it is all one in effect Dominus Petro potestatem dedit c. In the type of vnitie our Lord gaue Peter power saies S. Austen or in the type of charitie And will you say that all that were types in the old Testament were so many magistrates where some were of Christ yea very many were there so many gouernours of Christ I pray you or the types of the Church that went before in the old Testament were they all Church-gouernours And yet thus you see S. Austen declares his meaning about genere personam by sigura by typus and such like But you will say it followes in S. Austens words Ipse enim Petrus in Apostolorum ordine primus And what then As if wee denied the primacie in the order of the Apostles which are ready to graunt euen more then so if need be The Bishop yeelds a triple primacie to Peter in the booke that you confute before you vnderstand Out of which you in time may prooue the triple crowne And had S. Auston beene so fauourable you had done it ere this In whome it followes Saepe respondet pro omnibus spoken of Peter And will you knowe quo mysterio Let himselfe shew Vnus pro multis vnus in multis once againe to endeare this vnitie
Apostle is said to represent the Churches person besides Peter S. Austen hath made you to swallow it before yet perusing your booke I find it to be no more then your selfe attribute to Mr. Thomas Rogers of whome you say in your ninth chapter Num. 78. that he represents the authoritie of all the Clergie of England not only the Clergie but the authoritie of them all and yet I thinke you neuer held him for our supreame gouernour To that of S. Cyrill Vt Princeps caputque caeterorum primus exclamauit I wonder first why you should construe it exclaimed vnlesse your argument stand in that as if Peter should get the primacie by roaring So hee in Plutarch when he saw a tall man come in to try masteries but otherwise vnweildy This were a likely man saies he if the garland hung aloft he that could reach it with his hands were to haue it for his paines You know that we Englishmen call that exclaiming when a man cries out by discontent or passion Was Peter offended when you make him to exclaime As for princeps caput it is waighed in the ballance and found too light S. Ierome Dial. 1. contra Pelag. Vt Plato princeps Philosophorum it a Petrus Apostolorum as Plato was cheife among the Philosophers so Peter of the Apostles Doth that please you For Plato though he liued in Dionysius his Court yet he was no Monarch No more was Peter And if you would but turne Tullies Offices againe or almost any other of his works you should see Princeps in quacunque facultate In medicinâ in re bellicâ in scenâ it selfe where not Illaerat vita illa secunda fortuna saies he libertate parem esse caeteris principem dignitate Therefore princeps is no word of soueraigntie And was no bodie euer call'd caput but Peter For that is another thing which you stand vpon I could tell you a distichon out of Baronius made neither by Peter nor by any of his successors as you interpret his successors wherein neuerthelesse the man is called after other titles Pontificumque caput which is the head of Bishops and Popes and all And if a man should call Eudaemon-Iohannes iustly deseruing it as it may be some haue called him caput furiarū would you plead frō thence if need were that he had any authority ouer the deuils or were a yong Belzebub Further I beleeue when all comes to all it is but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the Greek if we could see it Of which we shal say more when we answer to the other Cyrill namely he of Ierusalem a little after For 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as we are taught by S. Chrysostome where yet there is no authoritie of one actor ouer the other Generally this arguing from titles of cōmendation is very vnsound Who knowes not that S. Iames was called Episcopus Episcoporum as Nilus testifies yet S. Ambrose serm 83. giues that to Christ to be Episcopus Episcoporū as his priuiledge Though Sidonius an author not iustly to be excepted against affirmes no lesse of one Lupus a particular Bishop that he was Episcopus Episcoporū Pater Patrum alter saeculi sui Iacobus that is a Bishop of Bishops and a Father of Fathers another Iames the Apostle of his age Which in the end wil proue as much as caput caeterorum though you bring that to magnifie Peter by As if caput caeterorū might not be one set vp by speciall prouiso to keepe good order in the Colledge I meane the Colledge of the Apostles though without any commission to deriue it to his successors or extrauagant power ouer the rest for the present Lastly I might aske you how Peter could be caput caeterorum here that is Monarch installed in your sense when you tell vs a little after Num. 31. out of S. Chrysostome that Peter durst not aske our Sauiour the question who should betray him till such time as he had receiued the fulnes of authoritie and after that time he grew confident Which time was not till after our Sauiours resurrection and therefore farre from this So if you trust to Chrysostome you haue lost Cyrill if to Cyrill Chrysostome you cannot possibly hold them both if you vrge caput in so rigorous sense I might adde out of S. Cyrill once againe to stop your mouth crying out so mainely against lame quotations that princeps as it may be taken is expounded there by ferventissimus Apostolorum so feruent saith S. Cyrill that hee leapt naked into the sea out of the ship for zeale Where if the ship be the Church then wee haue Peter leaping out of the Church You will say perhaps from Antioch to Rome Then Antioch is the ship and Rome the sea What vantage haue you now of all that is said of Peters ship to countenance Rome Doe you see how one iumpe hath marred your allegorie and almost your Monarchie Now S. Cyrill saies farther in the place you quote lib. 12. cap. 64. in Ioh. Petrus alios praeveniebat how Ardore namque Christi praecipuo feruens ad faciendum ad respondendum paratissimus erat That is Peter preuented others For boyling with an especiall zeale to our Sauiour Christ he was most readie and forward either to doe or say This was the cause why he exclaimed first Primus saies S. Cyrill but not solus Hic Malchi etiam aurem amputauit that you cannot abide to heare of putans hoc modo Magistro semper se inhaesurum So little did he couet the primacie that you striue for that he wisht neuer to be absent from his Master which if he had not beene he could neuer haue ruled in his roome Then in euery confession that he made saies S. Cyrill rationalium ouium curam sibi habendam esse audiuit Is cura nothing which with you praefectura hath cleane deuoured And if you but remembred that they were oues rationales you would tyrannize lesse and stand lesse for tyrannie There There are other things betweene which I passe ouer here because you shall heare them anon Take this for farwell Doctores hinc Ecclesiae discunt saith S. Cyrill non aliter se Christo posse coniungi nisi omni curâ operâ studeant vt rationales oues rectè pascantur rectè valeant Talis erat Paulus ille c. That is The Doctors of the Church learne from hence that they can no otherwise be ioyned vnto Christ vnlesse they endeauour with all their paine and diligence that his reasonable sheepe be well fed and well liking Such a one was Paul c. By which you see what a sense he giues vs of Pasce of feeding Christs sheepe namely with labour and diligence which the Pope cannot skill of and Paul not onely Peter a prime instance of it Neither doubt I but when Paul saies of himselfe I
Euagrius may seeme to imply as much lib. 4. c. 40. speaking of Anastasius Bishop of Antioch where Peter first sat To which Bishop the assaults were so fiercely giuen as if his ouerthrow would haue been the Captiuitie of the right faith they are the Historians words and in him were all But he manfully withstood 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 For he remained vpon the impregnable rocke of faith Iuvenalis Bishop of Hierusalem with fiue more Bishops in Rescripto Synodico in Concil Calched ad presbyteros monachos Palestina Prouincia hauing quoted the words of the Gospel aforesaid inferres thus Super hanc confessionem roborata est ecclesia Dei Where by the way you may see what the opinion was of the Fathers of that Councell concerning those words Super hanc petram to settle the cheifedome in Rome as before you would beare vs downe though they deriue the priuiledges of it meerely from the Empire and the graunt of their auncestors Also the Bishops surmise remaines good that the Cardinall left out those other words in Cyprian as preiudiciall to his cause that Peter did not challenge to himselfe any thing insolently or arrogantly as to say he had the primacie You say he might haue said so in his full right but S. Cyprian calls it an insolent and an arrogant challenge by which you see that primacie whatsoeuer it was was not of authoritie but of meere senioritie like primùm elegit a little before euen Andrewes first resorting to our Sauiours schoole hinders not this sith there was duplex vocatio as Maldonate will shew you before quoted which the words following shew too Et obtemperari à nouellis ac posteris sibi potiùs oportere comparing Paul the later called with Peter aunciently designed to the Apostleship In one respect an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or an abortiue as himselfe confesses and yet in other respects nothing short of the cheife S. Austen also though hee alter S. Cyprians words lib. 2. de bap c. 1. as is soone done in allegations of memorie yet he keeps the sense and fauours you nothing the primatus Apostolorum excellenti gratiâ praeeminens standing in dignity or qualitie let the word gratia helpe to perswade you not in authoritie Yet wee haue principes Apostolorum Paul and Peter nothing so common in your owne mens mouthes yea Cardinal Pole sayes both their Apostleships grewe into one Amborum Apostolatus in vnum coaluit lib. 3. ad Henrie 8. c. So as either no monarchie nowe or of more then one a thing meerely impossible § 4. That you quote out of S. Austen concerning Peter Peter did otherwise then the truth required yea and in so great a point as was Circumcisiō also afterward more plainly in the same num 14. that he erred would you euer write thus if you were well in your wits striuing for Peters primacie to impute errour to him and errour in faith which you know cannot be without the grand perill of the vniuersall Church As S. Gregorie sayes that all fall if vnus vniuersalis fall one in whome are all as you in your Pope euen as the moile stumbling all goes to wracke that the beast caries and the greater the beast the fouler the wrack whether it be gold or siluer or what other fraight foeuer And I pray you what does your primacie serue for vnles it be ioyned with infallibity Yet you forfeit the one here to winne the other § 5. I might likewise aske you what manner of primacy you call that which excuses not the superiour from the iust and lawfull rebuke of his inferiour but so as if S. Peter should haue refused to follow and to obey S. Paul they are your owne words num 16. he should haue done insolently Call you that a primacy specially a Popish one which must be patient of controule liable to the obedience euen of his vnderling if it will avoyd pride § 6. And therefore thought the Bishop in his vsuall modesty say as you note numb 16. videtur mens Cypriano fuisse it seemes Cyprian was of the minde it is not for diffidence Sir but as I told you Videtur and est is all one with the Philosopher saies Zimaras in his Table quoting the Commentor for it And so the Lawyers If there be fraud in videtur it is rather in Bellarmines De Pontif. Rom. l. 1. c. 9. Indicare videtur Apostolus ad Heb. 8. What that the Church triumphant is a patterne of the militant where there may be videtur but no est certenly because there is no such thing in the Apostles text You might rather haue thought of that Luke 22. 24. Quis videretur esse maior where if videretur be not better construed your primacy is but a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a very fancie § 7. I am ashamed of thus digressing but your dealing forces me I cannot forbeare yet with this I will end concerning Cyprian To your 17. numb whereas the Bishop saies Fundamentum sed non vnicum what more confonant to Scripture not Apoc. 24. as you quote it but 21. v. 14. where there are 12. specified But againe whereas he saies There is caput vnicum and therefore non sequitur à fundamento ad caput what more agreeable to sense For as for that you adde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and with a mouth speaking bigge which Anna forbids 1. Sam. 2. 3. that as the 12. to Christ so the eleuen to Peter were enterchangeably subordinate you should shew this written humano stylo either in Scripture or in Father that we might runne and read it But though you sweat your heart out it growes not there Yet you seeme to your selfe wise when you shew the Bishop as well many heads vpon one body as many foundations of one building Videlicet say you the states of Venice so many states so many heads of that commonwealth Which first is harsh in Aristocraty to make euery gouernour a seuerall head more then the Amphisbaena hath the whole company rather and many men if you will but one head Yet this fonder that the Bishop arguing from a materiall house not a metaphoricall and from a naturall bodie not a proportionall to demonstrate what is meet to bee expected in the mysticall you shew him a politicall which is nothing to his demand § 8. NExt of S. Hierome And why might not the Bishop taxe the Cardinall for suppressing S. Hieromes words as well as before S. Cyprians As well say you the one as the other that is iust neither or neither iustly But of Cyprian we haue seene see we now of Hierome Inter duodecim vnus eligitur vt capite constituto schismatis tolleretur occasio Amongst twelue one is chosen that a Head beeing appointed occasion of schisme might be taken away lib. 1. in Iovin But in the same booke saies the Bishop Hierome thus which the Cardinall would take no notice of But thou wilt say that the Church is built vpon Peter
the Patriarch euen when he was ready to dye So happy are they to whome I say not in senectute but in morte contigerit huc aspirare as he saies Cui suspiramus semper Where you say that no guile must be in the spirit Psal 32. 2. and therefore sinne is cleane purged in the iust you are to know that all sinne is not guile but the sinne of hypocrisie dissembling our sinnefulnesse and reioycing sinisterly in our supposed perfection of which let them take heede that dance to your pipe and delight in your doctrine The Psalme opposeth it there to dum tacui in the next verse v. 3. for where there is tacui there is guile where no guile no tacui And the Saints in the Reuelation had no guile found in their mouthes because they confessed they were sinners sath S. Austen § 19. ANother fault of the Bishops is here complained of that he hath not layd downe at full the Cardinals argument out of the Epistle of Theodosius to the Councell of Ephesus by which is shewed who should be present at generall Councells And I hope it is no matter whether he lay it downe at length or no so he answer it But you that vndertake the refutation of the Bishops answer to the Cardinalls Apologie why doe you mention but one part of his answer to this very argument Is not this a worse fault and yet in the same kinde As for example one part of the Bishops answer was this that a Count and a King be not all one and when Theodosius forbad the Count to meddle he precluded not himselfe This you mention but the rest you leaue out First that it appeares Theodosius did not set this law to himselfe to be no medler in Councels because he assembled it yea confirmed it and ratified the Acts of it which Count Candidian might not doe Secondly that the Emperour exhorted this noble Courtier and Count Candidian to suppresse them that were at oddes and to curbe the humour of such as loued iangling Could this be without his interposing in their tractate which are the words that you stand vpon And you shall finde in the Trullan Councell that other lay-men are forbidden that thing the libertie whereof is reserued to the Emperour notwithstanding So might it be here And indeede who would euer retort vpon a King out of his owne words or bind Theodosius as it were with his owne girdle so with his owne Epistle which he neuer meant should yoke himselfe To omit that Constantine carried himselfe like a Bishop witnesse Eusebius nay Bishop ouer Bishops that is the oecumenicall Bishop which you would be glad if your Pope had the like plea for himselfe to intermeddle with the matters of Constantine and of the Empire Why then might not Theodosius Or though onely Bishops as you would faine force may haue to doe in Councels yet why should Theodosius or Constantine sit out that are Bishops without the Church as others are within and during diuine seruice See Sozom. l. 4. c. 21. of Leonas and Laritius two lay-Courtiers one satelles aulae another praefectus militum as the author styles them sent to the Councell of Seleucia in Isauria de mandato Constantij by Constantius his commandement that in their presence de fide accuratè inquireretur strict enquiry might be made of Faith And when some Bishops would not enter into disputation about things controuerted because of the absence of other Leonas tamen iussit de fide disceptari Leonas neuerthelesse commanded them to conferre about relligion In the Councell of Syrmium the Emperour likewise appointed Iudges president of his owne pallace doctrinâ auctoritate caeteris praestantes in all likelihood but lay-men Idem Sozom. lib. 4. c. 5. And cap. 13. of the same booke Constantius letter to the Church of Antioch and the Bishops there assembled conteines thus Placet prohibere à conventibus Ecclesiasticis It is our pleasure to forbid certaine from Ecclesiasticall assemblies You may say now if you will after all this that Emperours haue nothing to doe in Councels and that Theodosius meant to barre himselfe by his owne letter or else that he knewe not the right which Constantius exercised and was descended to him by succession euen from Constantine But there is a letter of Theodos and Valentinian ioyntly extant in the Acts of the Ephesine Councell the 3. in number in Surius his edition beginning thus Praeclarissimo Comiti c. Which you may doe well to read to see what lay Emperours may doe in Councells You shall see how he checks the whole Councell there for there partiality and part-taking for their tumults and sicut non conueniebat and how he concludes the matter Quapropter Maiestati nostrae visum est vt huiusmodi authoritas nullo pacto locum habeat quae inordinatè sunt gesta cassentur Wherefore it seemed good to our Maiestie that such authority should by no meanes take place and that those things be abrogated or disanulled which were disorderly done Yea how he tyes the Bishops to their residence at the Councell forbidding any to depart and how he sets an Oportet vpon omnia corroboranda sunt à nostrâ pietate and lastly how he ends most imperially and worthily Maiestas nostra nō hominum aliquorum sed ipsius doctrinae ac veritatis curam gerit Our Maiestie takes not care of mens persons but of Gods truth and the heauenly doctrine The like he doth in the Epistle that you quote and namely chargeth them to heare no accusations but proceede to discussion of faith onely § 20. TO your numb 42. and 43. what we heare from witnesses though sure and certaine witnesses yet we doe but heare when you haue made the most of it So as the Bishop might well say Augustinus nihil praeter auditum habet Austen hath nothing more then heare-say meaning he reports not this of his own knowledge though he would not seem to deny credit to those witnesses Which many a man to say truth is loath to doe I meane to detract any thing from the credit of the reporter euen then when he scarce beleeues that which is told As for the assistance of Angels or apparition of Saints it prooues not that it is lawfull for vs to pray to them as hath been shewed before and therefore it matters not greatly whether that of Felix be true or no. Sure it is that S. Austen in the same booke where he tells this de curâ promortuis argues from the saying of holy Scripture Abraham hath not knowne vs nor Israel c. that Saints departed are ignorant if not carelesse or forgetfull of our state here A figure whereof there may seeme to be in the story of Ioseph whome the butler forgot as soone as himselfe was escaped out of prison as it were the Saint newly departed out of the body and forgetting his late fellowes in pilgrimage the rather because both a Philo and the
What then though the same in another place be done vpon all that is the Church is said to be built vpon all the Apostles and all to receiue the Keyes of the kingdome of heauen and the strength of the Church to be equally grounded vpon them all Yet indeede one is chosen among the twelue that a Head beeing appointed occasion of schisme might be cut off Is this no cooling card to the other authoritie For you that tell vs of dice I may doe well to speake to you in a sutable metaphore and not abhorring from your trade As the Philosophers say the braine in a mans bodie tempers the heat of the heart beneath so doe not the words precedent allay the force of these latter which yet the Cardinall onely set before vs For the threefold equalitie which S. Hierome before ascribed to all the Apostles one of their equall interest in the foundation another in the keyes of the kingdome of heauen and the third which is reiterated for deeper impression of bearing the whole strength or stresse of the Church leaues onely now this sense of caput that Peter was chosen to haue such a kind of Headship that is of prioritie among the twelue as should not derogate from paritie and yet exclude schisme or garboyle or confusion Which is the primacie of order that we haue often told you of and you would faine diuert to a primacie of Maiestie I could not answer your fallacie in a directer fashion yet I know you haue replies as that caput in the last place addes great force to super quem fundata est in the first Which we remit to the iudgement of the indifferent Reader whether so many equalities yeelded to the Apostles in the words afore doe not rather force vs to construe caput as hath beene sayd not derogating from the equality of their power in the keyes nor from bearing the groundworke of the Church ioyntly that is as you construe it from beeing gouernours thereof Besides that Caput is onely a borrowed word and signifies primum or the first in that kinde which we grant to Peter with all readines and lastly tempered with such a modest clause to keepe out schisme or disorder onely § 9. You say there is more daunger of schisme nowe then among the twelue For they were confirmed by speciall grace we not so And therefore they were not so likely to runne into schisme for which they should haue a head As though Paul and Barnabas were not running into a schisme a paroxysme at least that is the first grudging of the other ague as though when Peter confirmed his brethren tu confirma Luk. 22. 32. they had the lesse vse of him as their head against a schisme And though the will of God be to confirme some here yet not without meanes neither at first to rectifie them nor afterward to continue them in their good course to the ende Of which meanes this might be one of which S. Hierome speakes Was any man more confirmed then S. Paul rapt into the third heauen c. yet he struggles with his nature least preaching to others he should be a reprobate himselfe So here Besides that this schisme which our Sauiour preuented by appointing an Head as S. Hierome saies might be schisma populorum not Apostolorum and therefore he saies vt occasio schismat is tolleretur that the Christian people seeing who was eminent in the Colledge of the Apostles might not euery one rashly set vp their principall and so fall into schisme § 10. But at least we neede a Head now a daies as much as they As if we haue not our Head in our manifold regiments Dedit quosdam pastores Eph. 4. Obedite praepositis Hebr. 13. Terribilis sicut castrorum acies ordinata and so forth Is there no Head but of an vniuersall Bishop yea theirs was of order onely and to shun confusion ours of power and commands subiection Besides Kings and Princes which God hath giuen to our times as to feede his Church and to giue them milke which very milke is Discipline so to bring home wanderers from the high waies and the hedges to the feast of the great King that 's to suppresse schismes as S. Austen often but namely contra Gaudent l. 1. c. 25. § 11. For where you tell vs that Princes may cause these schismes themselues and so contemning spirituall censure and proceedings must either be hampered with another coerciue power extending to bodies and to estates or els all runne to nothing and the Church be cleane extinguished you bewray your spirit sufficiently and a man may read your drifts in your forehead which at another time you would so faine couer and smooth ouer Sermo tuus indicat te may be our speech to the Pseudo-Peter as was once to the true Doe you thinke then that S. Hierome would giue this leaue to Priests or the Prince of Priests as you would haue him to bind Kings in materiall chaynes and to load their Senators with such iron fetters as no metaphore hath mollified to vse such other violence as commonly goes herewith Though of you I lesse wonder if you giue them iron in their chaynes to whome you haue giuen it in their crownes as Clement to Charles if Platina say true in Clem. 7. But to S. Hierome How then does he construe these words of Dauid Against thee onely haue I sinned to haue been spoken in that sense because Dauid was a King and not to be proceeded against by any temporall punishment or coactiue hand of a mortall man How does he say in his Epistle to Heliodore de obitu Nepotiani that a King rules men against their wills a Bishop no farther then they will themselues They subdue by feare these are giuen vs for seruice and many the like How does Basil vpon the 37. Psalme 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and he knew his power as he bore his name A King is subiect to no iudge How does Chrysostome professe so often that he can goe no further then words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Shepheard though he be yet he may not fling a stone at a wolfe but rate him onely 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Again in his 2. de Sacerd. c. 2. 3. at large againe in the Homil. which is not extant in Greeke but in Latin onely Cum ageretur de expulsione S. Iohannis Statis omnes non ferro sed fide deuincti Tom. 5. And in Act. Apost hom 3. in Morali the people to the Minister are not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not subiect to him or in his hands but hauing their obedience free in their owne power Againe in the same place within a fewe lines 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Magistrates rule by feare so doe not these viz. the Ministers And yet more frankly 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 There things are caried by order and by appointment here
no such thing neither may wee commaund any thing as by authoritie Againe Comment in ad Hebr. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The Minister is a teacher quoth he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. The same at large Homil. 11. in 4. ad Ephes in Ethico 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 A Minister and a Counseller leaue euery man to himselfe they enforce nothing What more can be said for vs See Orat. 5. in Oziam toward the latter ende He saies the course that God takes with Kings if they offend is not to deliuer them ouer to any man to chastize but Adduc ad me as the father bid theÌ„ carrie the child to his mother and our Sauiour the Apostles to bring the partie to him whome they could not cure Let me alone with him I shal deale with him Orat. 1. in Babylam he commends him more for moderating his hand after he had once put the tyrant backe and that he fell not to flat striking which is not lawfull for a Priest then for debarring him entrance into the Church at first For the one euery bodie would haue done that is execute his anger beeing enraged but onely Babylas or one like him keepe a meane in performing his office after prouocation And because we spake of chaines a little before it may be for this cause Babylas desired to be buried with his chaines as S. Chrysostome relates in one of his Orations vpon him and againe Hom. 9. in 4. ad Ephes to shew what he endured not what he administred and so likewise of the sword that was buried with him after it had struck off his head S. Hilarie giues the reason why Rachel that is the Church would not be comforted for her children whome Herod had butchered that is the persecutor martyred Consolatio enim rei amissae praestanda est non auctae For we comfort loosers not gainers Now the Church gaines by patience in persecution Therefore shee looses by resistance and opposition Of which thing S. Cyprian also in application to the Church and how shee may not resist nor wreake her wrongs lib. de bono patient at large Et quoniam plurimos scio vel pondere iniuriarum vel dolore vindicare velociter cupere c. nec illud reticondum est quod dicit Dominus Soph. 3. Expecta me quoniam iudicium meum est vt excipiam Reges Onely God is to deale with Kings And soone after Hunc expectemus iudicem vindicem nostrum omnium iustorum numerum ab initio mundi secum pariter vindicaturum And lastly Qui ad vindictam suam nimium festinat properat consideret quia needum vindicatus est ipse qui vindicat And in his booke contra Dometrianum he alludes to Virgils verse â—â—fâ—lâ—â— lolium steriles DOMINANTVR aveâ—â— Implying that wicked and profane men may obtaine domination ouer the Church in this world though the Iesuite cannot abide to heare it and yet still remaine but infoelix lolium in all their iollitie and worldly ruffe Theodoret quaest 6. in Numer 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 By purple the Kingly office is declared with that goeth punishing or coertion Of what then is the Hyacinth a resemblance which was another couering of the holy vessels belike of heauen 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith Theodoret. And in heauen there is no punishment The Minister as a heauenly Magistrate not an earthly Soueraigne he afflicteth none Gregorie Nazianzene in his 2. Steliteut against Iulian 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Doe you see what a course he prescribes for reformatioÌ„ Not by violence as you dispute to represse tyrants by musike not by blowes by perswasion not coÌ„pulsion c. And a little after 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 To which he opposes onely 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by word and by praier You may remember Ambrose Pugnare non debeo I may not fight Arma nostra lachrymae our weapons are teares and Multi Iobi many Iobs for one that is many patient Christians And lib. 3. de officijs cap. 9. Nulli noceat sacerdos ne lacessitus quidem iniuriâ offensus A Priest must hurt no man viz. forcibly and violently though prouoked and wronged Whereas you thinke you may doe any thing for bonum spirituale and in ordine ad ecclesiam to preserue that Primasius in 2. ad Rom. Lex Christi iam non minatur gladium peccantibus sed promittit praemium liberè seruientibus that is The law of Christ now threatneth no sword to offenders but promises reward to them which truely serue him Which you must construe in such a sense as not to bring in Anabaptisme nor destroy all Magistracie but to curbe your Priests in comparison of the Priests of the old lawe from attempting violence because Primasius speakes vpon those words Litera occidit that is They but spiritus vinificat which you would fain be accounted calling your selues to that end the spirituall men See the same Primasius againe against Ministers coactions in 2. Cor. 1. Non quia ideò credidistis vt vobis dominemur sicut in lege sacerdotes c. And Non quòd metu cogamini not that you are coÌ„strained not so much as with feare much lesse by force Yet with you it is apparent that folks beleeue in Christ that you may censure theÌ„ the more freely euen Kings and all ouer whom beeing infidels you had no such confessed power Qui laesi non essent nisi CREDIDISSENT as he saith And therefore see how you will answer Primasius Tertullian in Apologet. giues no leaue to redresse inconueniences with force no not with the death of a man much lesse with the perill of a Soueraigne Prince or State Christianus etiam damnatus gratias agit And Christianus nec inimicum suum laedit And Paratus est ad omne supplicium ipse habitus oris Christiani Hoc agite boni Praesides extorquete animam Deo supplicem pro Imperatore And againe in the same booke Hippias dum ciuitati insidias disponit occiditur Hoc pro suis omni atrocitate dissipatis nemo vnquam Christianus tentauit Yet nimius copiosus noster populus saith S. Cyprian speaking to the same purpose contra Demetrianum whom you may do well to read And to make short see Eusebius Emesenus sermon in dominic 4. Aduentûs vpon Ioh. 1. Ego vox clamantis that is a ministers calling not manus percutientis If he write vpon the wall a sentence against Baltazar by Gods direction that is all Adde Concil Tolet. 4. c. 31. where whome the Minister cannot amend he deliuers ouer to the King and his iustice to bee accordingly censured but who shall censure the King himselfe Neither may I omit Origen both in 13. ad Rom. and Tract 12. in Euang. Matth. vpon those words of our Sauiour Matth. 20. Reges gentium c. Sicut omnia carnalia in necessitate sunt posita non in voluntate
you did our forefathers while your power lasted Thanks be vnto God that hath shortned those dayes abridged your malice Yet Elias confounded Baals priests with a ieast and S. Chrysostome commenting vpon the 140. Psal bids vs make much of the frumpes of the godly which is your fault to haue profited no more by the Bishops kinde reproofes Yet in all the passages of that Reuerend man there is no one word contumelious to pietie or disgracefull to relligion or preiudiciall to grauity and good manners Whereas Sir Thomas More the champion for your Clergie as it were vicarius in spiritualibus he was such a buckler to the Bishops as Stapleton saies the common voyce was in those dayes yet he I say vndertaking the Churches cause wrote a booke so gamesome and so idly idle that dissembling his owne name he was faine to father it vpon Gulielmus Rossaeus a title that one of your fellowes hath taken vpon him of late to shroud his virulences vnder as he did his vanityes and lastly the great Philosopher kept a foole at home as the same Stapleton records to make him merry no doubt though his wit was able to prouoke laughter in others as full often it did And if More be of no more authority with you you may looke backe to your owne Cardinall that dry Child that sage Sobrino yet he excuses himselfe in one place of his controuersies a worke a man would thinke that did not fit so with mirth Ignoscat Lector quòd temridiculè Tilemannum exceperim Let the Reader pardon me for beeing so merrie or so pleasant with Tilemanne This he Yet because you haue descried such a veine in the Bishop as you thinke at least might you not haue answered your selfe touching that which you obiect to him here about Iouinian that it sauoured but of Ironie For what more fit to be hit in your teeth who euery where crake to vs of Iouinians heresies then when you bring that in earnest to countenance your Poperie which S. Hierome puts vpon Iouinian by supposall At dices tu Iouiniane scilicet Though the Bishop doth not challenge him for such an absolute Iouinianist but onely saies Probè in to secutus Iouinianum the Cardinall therein following Iouinian very handsomely Which words are enough to dissolue your cauill that the Bishop should lay absolute Iouinianisme to his charge which you say surpasses all impudencie Such a rustique you are an arrant clowne not discerning what is ieast and what is earnest Howbeit it will be hard for you to prooue Iouinian to haue beene an hereticke Epiphanius and Philastrius doe not recken him among the catalogue and they that may conclude him to haue held a falshood will finde some a doe to condemne him for an hereticks Neither is the meaning of that word by all agreed vpon neither doe all take it in euery place alike Yet because this scandall rests vpon Iouinian for the most part you may be pleased to remember Sir out of S. Austen what other monsters Iouinian fostered and therein if you thinke good compare his doctrine with ours As that all sinnes are in like degree heinous which is the Stoicall paradoxe no way cleauing to vs though you slaunder vs so vniustly for not holding veniall sinnes which Roffensis himselfe held not That fasting and abstinence profits nothing Can you charge vs with any such impietie That the regenerate man cannot sinne after baptisme wherein he comes neerer to you then to vs. As for your merits you may keepe them the badges of your insolencie and in you Sir of your ignorance not to know what merit meanes all this while Yet beware how you magnifie the Virgin against the married least the Councell of Gangra condemne you not for an hereticke now but a cursed hereticke Can. 20. giuing you 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 if you doe but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 though you condemne not marriage if you but swell out of the conceit of your single life And so Minutius Foelix most diuinely Inuiolati corporis virginitate fruimur potiùs quà m gloriamur After that he had said Vnius matrimonij vinculo libenter inhaeremus S. Chrysostome goes further If the perfection of Monkerie it selfe may not stand with marriage all is spoil'd See Comm. in ad Hebr. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in ipso fine And why should Virginitie then be exalted aboue marriage if the perfection of the strictest Monks themselues be compatible therewith And he closes his discourse with that diuine 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as Pindar saies should be taken 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a iunket alwaies in the ende of a feast 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Vse marriage moderately and thou shalt be the very first in the kingdome of heauen Indeede therefore all the Saints are lodged in Abrahams bosome in the married mans bosome as the same Father cannot denie lib. de Virg. in extremo Once the Trinitie in his tent and now the Saints in his bosome Yet still the married man and not the worse for his marriage As for the rewards of the faithfull that they are not equall in the heauen that we looke for and that the sacred Virgin suffered no decay of her maidenly honour by the stainlesse and immaculate birth of our Sauiour let Iouinian thinke what he will though S. Hierome neuer imputes this latter to Iouinian in the 2. books that he wrote against him yet not onely you but troupes in the English Church so teach And would the time giue leaue is there not a Montane and a Tatian to make you blush for your abhominable heresies about meates and marriages as well as you haue a Iouinian to twitt vs withall But because I now onely assoyle the Bishop from your wicked slaunders it is well his integritie hath so acquitted him without me that your selfe dare not speake of him but with It may be and Except such a hooke his fame hath put in your nostrills who onely in this may be resembled to Iouinian to Paphnutius rather that in single life he defends the libertie of other folkes marriages But hast we to an ende § 17. To the other places of S. Hierome as Matth. 16. which in great good will you aduise the Bishop to read ouer forsooth what saith S. Hierome there That our Sauiours dicere is facere his saying is doing therefore calling Peter a rocke he made him so But I hope good Sir as doing and saying went together in our Lord so both of them in his owne meaning not in your mistaking What is this then to prooue Peters Monarchie or smaller regencie either if such could content you And if it could yet it were hard I say to boult it out of this place of S. Hierome where no syllable of authoritie or power once appearing for explanation sake as reason was if you meant to speede he saies onely that Peter for beleeuing in the rocke our Sauiour bespake him and yet not properly but in
Themselues forbid themselues to be worshipped Reuel 18. and here they are faine to be commaunded to it afore they can be brought to worship a Man Yet what man Adoratur quidem vt vnigenitus et si vocetur primogenitus id quod manifestissimae humanitatis mensuras maximè decet As the first begotten he worships as the onely begotten he is worshipped For he consists ex natur a adorabili adorante saies the same Cyrill there According as his owne words are Ioh. 4. Nos adoramus quod scimus Yet playner Num igitur tanquam hominem adoramus Immanuelem Absit Deliramentum enim hoc esset deceptio ac error That is Do we therefore worship the Immanuel as a man God forbid For that were to doate to erre and to be deceiued And In hoc enim nihil differremus ab his qui creaturam colunt vltrá conditorem That is For in so doing we should differ nothing from them that worship the creature aboue the Creator Not that any worshipt the creature more then the creator who so madde but euery iuxtà is vltrà with S. Paul when any thing comes to be worshipped besides God Rom. 1. Many the like clauses are in that booke but with this I will ende to shew Cyrills iudgement of faith in Saints which was the thing that wee beganne with Alioqui quemodè in illum credamus Else how should we beleeue in him namely if Christ bee not God Againe Non enim tanquam in vnum nobis similem yet the Saints are like vs I am 5. 17. neque etiam in hominem fides sed in Deum tendit naturalem verum for we are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 too but not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Gal. 4. 8. whome we must not so much as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not giue dulia to vnlesse it be naturalis deus in personâ Christi That is For our faith is grounded not vpon one like vs as the Saints for certaine are no nor vpon any MAN but vpon the naturall and true God in the Person of Christ And wot you what he addes yet for assurance sake Hinc quidam curabant ne fides in Christum reciperetur namely quia eum simplicem hominem minimeque deum esse putabant That is For this cause some endeauoured to hinder the enterteyning of faith in Christ because they were perswaded he was a meere man and not God Would the Church at that time allow faith in Saints thinke you Ergò necessariò ad periculum metum illum tollendum sidem referebat in Deitatis naturam Christus viz quidem in persona patris non nostra humilitate dicebat Qui credit in me non credit in me sed in eum qui misit me That is Therefore of necessity to preuent that feare and that daunger Christ reduced our faith in him vnto the nature of his Godhead and said in the person of his father and not in our natures meannesse He that beleeueth in mee beleeueth not in mee but in him that sent mee This agrees with S. Chrysostome who as I told you before obserues that the Apostle durst not so much as name sidem in Christum faith in Christ a good while after his resurrection till the world was better seasoned with the beleefe of his Godhead But hereof so much § 29. Numb 58. Certaine bookes of Scripture you say are not known by what authors they were penned and yet they carrie the force of authoritie notwithstanding Therefore Homilyes falsly or vncertainely attributed to these and these Fathers are auaileable against the King in the trying of this controuersie Negatur consequentia There we know the inditer though we doubt of the penman Here all rests vpon the credit of the writer Diuine authoritie goes not with true Fathers saies Gelasius S. Austen and your owne Driedo with many more much lesse with the suspected or questioned Though suppose it were otherwise what sayes Maximus or Ambrose or whosoeuer he is when you haue done all you can For I spare to tell you that this Oration is not in Ambrose where diuers others are of them which are found of late to be Maximus his broode So as this also may seeme to smell of a grotte I will take the words as they lie in your booke and of your owne translating We beseech thee O Virgine with as feruent prayers as wee may Which wee our selues are ready to doe I meane to pray to any that wee may But hee that sayes so doubts of the lawfulnes of his owne act How thinke you or if this like you not you may do well next time to set downe Maximus his owne words in Latine and sparing yours to leaue the Reader to his owne interpretation of them vnlesse you could better And why I pray you does Maximus pray onely to Agnes among so many Saints as he Panegyrizeth in those Orations both men and women Or how did he say a little before Veni iam Virgo ad Thalamum c. Is not your owne note in the Margent there this IMITATIO to shew that it is not reall but figuratiue And yet you are hee that will allow no tropes forsooth in the fathers compellation of Saints deceased § 30. Numb 63. You say Nazianzene exhorted others to imitate the example of her that prayed to the blessed Virgine Yet in Nazianzenes words euen as you cite them your selfe there is no such thing but only that they should reioyce and giue eare both sorts of them both married and vnmarried for to both he sayes his narration may serue for an ornament This is all What shall wee say to him that so shamefully belyes his owne tale and corrupts Nazianzene Neither doe you wipe away the staine of inconsequence and contradiction about a double Cyprian in that Oration of Nazianzene which the Bishoppe had charged you with In so much as Billius your owne man confesseth that Nazianzenus hîc caecutijt Nazianzene was dazled here Lastly suppose the damosell made such prayer as you speake of it will alway be true what I told you out of Seneca Permittit sibi quaedam contra bonum morem magna pietas Deuotion transports if it bee feruent commonly Gorgonia Nazianzenes sister abandoned her chamber in her fit of sickenes but a little slaking went to the Altar to pray to God threatning not to depart 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith Nazianzene till she had her desire Was that well done And yet her fit cleane left her and shee came home well For she prayed to God not to the Saints But I speake of the aberrations of mindes that are otherwise godly euen in prayer Therefore when Abraham was to doe that great worke saies S. Chrysostome of sacrificing his son God called him by his name Abraham Abraham and he answered Here I am Not to shew in what place he was which God doubted not but that he knew what he did and was not transported with
be a Cupid because he is described to haue wings and arrowes lib. 3. contra Crescon c. 78. You heard before what Nazianzenes commentor sayes of his borrowing from Isocrates Though the Bishop sayes no where in plaine tearmes that the Fathers did as Orators not as Christians But Theologiamne docore an rhetoricari putes Would you thinke these men meant to read a lecture of Diuinitie or to practise their Rhetorique And Oratorum encomia quae nihil habent enucleatae Theologiae Orators prayses which containe no perfect substance of Diuinitie suppose you like that which your Schoolemen deliuer So Hierome saies the Bishop speaks with Paula and Nepotian how With both as an Orator with neither as a Christian that is according to the rules of strict catechisme What of this § 5. Your fourth obseruation in the 8. numb is petitio principij and the turning of the wheele Therefore I will not meddle with it Let the Bishops answer be but applyed to your obiection and it will salue it as before § 6. You praise pictures by the way and say that they greatly edifie the people Which shewes to what kind of creatures your booke is dedicated namely those whome an Idol may hold in awe for their simplicitie and though it bee not good at teaching any thing saue only lyes as the holy Ghost saies in Abac. 1. 18. yet it may serue well enough to bee their Master You doe but vtter your ware when you enterlace here about pictures for else you know it is nothing to that place in the Bishops booke which you pretend to confute And I might seeme to doe the like if I should be so madde as to follow you Onely thus in briefe S. Chrysostome of them that would haue pictures of the Seraphim because they appeared in such and such forme Esa 6. which is your verie pretence at this day why God should be painted not the Seraphim onely but God a monstrous shame Non te defodis Art thou not ashamed O thou wretch sayes he of such a grosse collection Why doest thou not rather runne vnder ground burie thy selfe aliue And he addes in the same place that the Seraphim are said to couer their faces with wings at the appearance of God onely to shewe that God is incomprehensible Yet you paint them for their wings whereas their wings are giuen them by the holy Ghost sayes Chrysostome to shew the secresie and that it must not be painted which cannot so much as be comprehended I say nothing of the forbidding of the Lambe to be painted in the Councel of Constantinople which Mald. your fellow Iesuite in his Comment vpon Daniel answers thus That the Fathers in that Councell were not rightly instructed and the Church sawe more vpon better consideration in after times Yet you make vs beleeue that you reuerence the Fathers and we censure them As for the fruit you talke of to come by pictures it is one thing I should think what constant and staied minds may gather therefrom another whether they are fit to bee set vp in Churches to nourish the deuotion of simple people by Least they plant error while they would induce to pietie seduce I should say as they that pulling vp the weedes in the parable plucke vp the wheat with all peruersâ diligentiâ You may remember what S. Austen sayes de consensu Euangel l. 1. c. 10. Sic errare meruerunt qui Christum non in codicibus sed in pictis parietibus quaesiuerunt So they deserued to be mockt that sought for Christ not in written books but in painted walls Neither are muri depicti your images or your pictures though such are promised vnto the Church Esa 49. 16. nor portae sculptae 54. 12. of the same booke Of the Councell Eliberitan Can. 20. of Epiphanius and his rending the vaile of Anablath of S. Chrysostomes exiling painters cleane out of the citie and out of the world too as men of no vse no seruice in life much more out of the Church I might spend much paper See his hom 50. in Matth. Yet with you it is one of the three gainefull trades now at Rome as we are informed euen as the making of shrines was to Demetrius or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the same booke Nyssen speakes of pictures for ornament cheifly for instruction either verie faintly or not at all And yet that also for grounded Christians rather then for nouices for S. Austen is iealous what may betide to such but of worshipping them not a word Lastly as the Martyr so also the persecutor was painted in the worke that Nyssen speaks of and vpon the pauement to be trode on as well as vpon the walls to be gazd on Par opus historiae in pauimento quod pedibus calcatur effecit pictor What doth this helpe you § 7. You mislike the Bishops answer of Vbicunque fueris to shew the vncertentie of their perswasion He might be high say you in Gods fauour wheresoeuer he was What if in the punishments of his owne sinnes for such a place you haue for the Elect after this life Might he be so high in fauour for all that as to succour others and be praied vnto Therfore this is not Nyssens belying the people to their faces as you fondly fancie but your owne want of vnderstanding Nyssens meaning and the peoples practise Which though vnwarranted by Scripture or Church-law as we haue often told you yet was not so bad as you would make it In such case we may be bold to say with Tertudian Meminero cor populi cinerem dictum and with Chrysostome Hom. 4. in Epist ad Rom. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Not euery bodies voice but wise mens must be attended to decide controuersies Ne me curavt bubulcum said he Now when they pray to him in Nyssen as entire and present 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 who was mangled and disparent is there no Rhetorique in this neither or should that be a good ground to build faith vpon Yet this is that gemme for which you haue searcht the Vatican as you tell vs. As for degrees of glorie though we doubt not but there be such for stella à stella c. and he that sowes sparingly shall reape sparingly and many the like yet I hope one heauen containes them all Would you say of Paul vbicunque fueris or of the blessed Virgin c yet you know not their punctuall degrees of glorie Yea and of Christ himselfe yet we know not the particulars of his aduancement ouely nomen dedit supra omne nomen Philip. 2. and 1. Pet. 3. 22. § 8. To colour your imposture you construe Greg. Nyssens wheresoeuer thou art by howsoeuer thou art imployed in Gods seruice Which is not Nyssens meaning but your owne vision For the Saints haue serued their age seruierunt saculo suo Act. 13. 36. and henceforth they are occupied about vs no more Mortui non miscentur actibus
when he said absens corpore prasens spiritu and yet knew not what they did but loue linked him nor might they petition to him in such absence Spectator actuum an Angell may be as you quote out of S. Ambrose and yet not cogitatuum which is prayers cheife seat as hath been often told you § 17. Wee say not that Saints are shut vp in a coffer as you malitiously slaunder vs with Vigilantius Wee graunt they follow the Lambe whethersoeuer hee goes but signanter dictum sequuntur non praeeunt they follow him not goe before him that is they applaude his resolutions of shewing mercy to his Church not importune him alwaies with fresh demaunds only sighing for our saluation in generall The blessed Martyr Fructuosus as you may read in Baronius Tom. 2. Anno. 262. when he was hasting to his martyrdome and now come to the stage of his execution one Felix requested him to haue him in minde belike after death To whom the holy Martyr and Bishop answered clarâ voce audientibus cunctis In mente me habere necesse est ecclesiam Catholicam ab oriente vsque in Occidentem That is I must needes haue in minde the Vniuersall Church of Christ euen from the East to West Limiting thereby his prayers to the Vniuersall estate of Christs Church here vpon earth and no longer owning particular suits after his departure out of the body As he that giues vs the Contents of the second Tome of Baronius in the ende of the booke vnderstands those wordes more peremptorily yet then so Non esse orandum sibi nisi pro Ecclesiâ Catholicâ that he may not pray for any but onely for the Church Whereas what if they should pray for the generall of mankind But I must further follow you § 18. S. Gregories speculum is reiected by your selues Is it like the Saints see as much as God Doe they see him as much as he is to be seene Doe they comprehend him in quantum comprehensitilis est Yet himselfe does so And if by seeing him they see as farre into him as the nature of things is resplendent in him they should doe this and all He meanes the presence and contemplation of God excludes all wretched and woefull ignorance from them and fills them full of happines but after the measure of their capacity And though they could discerne all that is in God yet it is a question whether he would not restraine them from some things purposely speculum voluntarium not naturale Though they affect vs well as wee confesse yet their felicity stands not in the knowledge of our welfare but in submitting themselues and all their desires to the pleasure of God of whome wee read that he shall be all in all in them but not that they shall be all in all in him I meane to see all that is to be seen by him § 19. I haue omitted one thing in the 17. Numb that the Saints offer vp our prayers vnto God Apoc. 5. for so you quote In all which chapter neuerthelesse there is no mention of offering at all The 24 Elders are said to haue harpes that is the instruments of praise and vialls full of sweete odors which the holy Ghost expounds to be the prayers of the Saints But their owne as well as others for ought I know Either their thanksgiuing to God for their wonderfull redemption as v. 12. for thanksgiuing is reckoned a kinde of prayer or because you are so delighted with the Bishops graunt the intercessions which they continually make for vs. As for the 8. chapter of the same booke where you read thus Another Angel came and much incense was giuen him to the ende that he might dare de orationibus Sanctorum offer as you conceiue it of the prayers of the Saints the originall Greeke reads dare orationibus that he might giue of that incense to the prayers of the Saints not offer them himselfe Which Angel S. Primasius expounds to be Christ so Beda so Ausbertus our Rhemists insinuating though not expressing so much S. Austen before them all Hom. 6. in Apocal. and therefore he is called another Angell as eminent aboue the former and he indeede graces our prayers with his merits as it were with sweete odours to make them acceptable to God Or if you will needes take it of the created Angels you see they adde no merits of their owne to countenance our prayers with but borrow incense from the Altar that is Christs merits from him for he is our Altar Hebr. 13. Data sunt ei thymiamata multa as hauing none of his owne Which is enough to ouerthrow the mediation of Angels though there were no more For by a scheme of speach they are made to be casters on of the perfume though it be Christ alone that can dispence his owne merits and the Angels are strangers to them As when it is said in Mulachie that a booke of remembrance was written before the Lord another is made to supply his memorie as it were though his singular sufficiency need no such helpe Lastly if we should read as we no where read that the Angels offered vp our praiers to God or carried them to God I would say that their carrying or offering them to God were nought els but their vnderstanding his gracious will and pleasure for the graunting of our praiers commeÌ„ced in Christs name beautified with those incense whereof the text speakes and their returne to vs the execution or performance of them on their parts wherein we needed their succour as Tob. 12. Act. 10. and sundrie places in the Psalmes as Mandabit angelis suis de te againe Mittet de coelis cruet me He shall commaund his Angels hee shall send from on high and saue me c. § 20. It is not worth the ripping vp now how the Rhemists haue expressed their dotage vpon this place Apoc. 8. that because it is said vers 3. the prayers of all Saints c. or because the title of Saints they are but slowely belike brought to extend to holy persons liuing vpon the earth therefore they haue deuised mediations of mediators between themselues Saints for Saints and Angels for Angels making intercession in heauen the superiour for the inferior as they tearme it What greater victory could we wish to the Truth or where shall we stay if this be once admitted § 21. NVm 24. Hee comes to another head of the Bishops plea why wee should not pray to Saints because there is no precept for it and all addition to the Law in matter of Gods seruice is Leuiathan a bugge But he insists vpon the place Deuter. 12. alleadged by the Bishop Quod â—â—bi praecepero hoc tantùm facies Thou shalt onely doe that which I commaund thee It extends no further saies F. T. then to the things in that Chapter namely to the not offering of such sacrifices as the heathen As if God could be offended onely one
Bishop hath changed the state of the question for other aime or sinister drift in varying the words he had none And yet doe not you good Sir graunt at another time that it is a plaine Monarchie viz. chap. 5. num 21. of your Adioynder Or why doth Sanders entitle his booke de Monarchia Ecclesiae but to addoube the Pope a Monarch at least Or what are the effects of it but to dispose Monarchies Is not that it we contend about Lastly how many clauses are there in your Cardinalls bookes de Pontif. Rom. that sound this way and that not hoarsly but very shrilly euen besides that in his first book cap. 9. whose plaine title is Quòd Regimen Ecclesiasticum praecipuè Monarchicum esse debeat That the gouernment of the Church ought especially to be Monarchicall Wherein his minde doth not so wholly runne vpon Christ to be the chiefe Monarch but iust in the next Chapter cap. 10. the title is Probatur PETRI Monarchia c. The Monarchie of Peter is here prooued And that after he had pleased himselfe in his former paines so well about the Church-Monarchie in generall that he saith Explicatum est nisi fallor satis diligenter We haue shewed it and I beleeue diligently enough But the word earthly that offends you It is no earthly Monarchy As if the obiects of this power the origen from whence it flowes comming into comparison which are the two waies to iudge of the temporaltie or secularitie thereof it be not plainer which we alleadge that the obiects thereof are earthly to make it earthly then that which you pretend that the institution is from heauen to call it he auenly As for temporall power we haue before shewed you where Bellarmine calls it so and writes a whole booke of it vnder that name How much doth that differ from earthly then § 2. A second is about Supererogation I will neither hold you nor the Reader long The defence of the Bishop is compendious and stands in this that either you must mend your meaning or change your word For Supererogation there is none where first all is not done that ought to be done and then a vantage too or surplus ouer Now for so much as there is no man but labours of his defects and all come short of the glorie of God and all haue neede to crie Dimitte nobis debita nostra forgiue vs our trespasses which is the Bishops owne allegation and yet by you called an impertinent arguing I say for somuch as there is no man liuing but stands charged in the former of these two kinds to be somewhat short with God in his reckonings about obedience therefore it is certaine that Supererogation there can be none though praetererogation we should graunt you howbeit subtererogation were the fitter word as the Bishop hath most godlily and acutely told you wishing you to mend the other by this What you tattle of S. Austen is nothing to the purpose As if we could not tell you the like of S. Hilarie in Psal 118. as also of Greg. Nazianz. in his first Steliteutike against Iulian S. Hierome in many places and namely ad Pammachium de obitu Paulinae c. Whereas if you looke to the scope of that Parable Luk. 10. no question but that driues cleane another way namely that the Lord Iesus left no part of our score vnsatisfyed to the Father not to shew what we doe in recompence to him who for certaine are the traueller wounded and halfe dead in the way not the host of the house as we are there figured Nay the host beeing S. Paul as both S. Austen and S. Hilarie and the author of the Hypognostique l. 3. c. 9. doe consent how doth not that shake S. Peters primacy that the chiefe of the house whither the wounded man was carried should be Paul not Peter for the Church is the Inne and therefore the host of the Inne must be the cheife in the Church Or if you say that he is the stabularius because of his Doctrine why should S. Paul giue higher rules of perfection then are to be found either in S. Peter or any other Apostles writing but for some cause of eminencie of degree aboue the rest Yet they all make him onely to be the stabularius and the Scriptures to say truth shew no lesse As for the word supererogate which makes all the stirre yet no such dangerous word in the good Samaritans meaning S. Austen he tooke it as it lay in the Text of the old translation and applying it to vs though not without a wrest as euen now I said yet gaue the most consonant sense to the faith that he could then find of it without building an article a dogma vpon it as you fondly doe whereas if a man should haue told him that erogare with super to pay ouer and aboue presupposeth the payment of the principall debt hee would neither haue denied the truth of that suggestion nor blushed at the humility of our confession crying all with one consent Dimitte nobis debita nostra and that the whole world is obnoxious to God and that if he should enter into iudgement with his seruants or marke what is done amisse no man would be able to abide it c. Neither tell you me that you also are of this opinion and confesse with the forwardest your many scapes and halting obedience For why then doe you not reforme so monstrous a tearme especially since you peruert it to a more vncouth sense then euer came in S. Austens head from whome neuer thelesse you would seeme to borrow it Is it not pitie that you should talke prowder then you thinke and speake loftier then you are affected For if you meane no more then so that a man may doe somewhat which may bee pleasing to God and yet not descending of his rigorous iniunction or taxation as Tertullian saies wittily though considering the cause he then maintained scarce Catholikely as your selues will not denie Non tantum obedire debeo Deo sed adulari We must not only obey God but addoulce him and flatter him I say if this be all we differ not much from you neither about refraining marriage nor refusing hyre for preaching the Gospel as for an Apostles labouring with his own hands look you to that how you will censure it Though you shall do well to consider what S. Chrysostome writes Hom. 5. in 1. Rom. alluding to that of our Sauiour no doubt When ye haue done all that ye should say ye are vnprofitable seruants therefore bee far from craking of supererogations His words are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 That is It was a debt that which the seruant did if he did ought at all For whatsoeuer things we doe we doe but fulfill a duty in so doing Wherefore Christ himselfe said When you haue done all things c. say Wee are but vnprofitable seruants for
vt ne aliqui NIMIVM ADMIRATI SANCTAM in hanc haeresim eiusque deliramenta dilabantur Est enim ludibrium tota res anicularum fabula vt ita dicam tota haeresis tractatio That is And therefore the Gospel armeth vs saying that our Lord himselfe said What haue I to doe with thee woman mine houre is not yet come To the end that some might not thinke that the holy Virgin was more excellent he called her barely woman as it were foreshewing what should happen in the world by way of sects and heresies concerning her that some through too great admiration of that holy woman might not slide into this heresie and the dotage thereof For in very truth all this whole passage is nothing but a meere mockerie and a toy and an old wiues tale c. Then Quae verò scriptura de hoc narravit Quis Prophetarum praecepit hominem adorari nedum mulierem That is And I pray what Scripture informeth vs hereof Which of the Prophets commanded any man to be worshipped and if not a man much lesse a woman See you how he reduceth this controuersie to Scripture yet the Adioynd makes no reckning of scripture in this question so we haue miracles traditions and other obseruations Well it was lawfull for Epiphanius to flie to that Quae verò Scriptura And Quis Prophetarum praecepit c See you also how he preferres not a few before the Virgin For we must not worship man saith he and much lesse a woman belike though it be the Virgin her selfe Eximium quidem est vas sed mulier nihil à naturâ immutata That is An excellent vessell she is no doubt but yet a woman and not a whit changed in regard of her nature Further Honoured she is but as the bodies are of the Saints and if I may say any more towards the magnifying of her sicut Elias sicut Iohannes sicut Thecla Like Elias like Iohn like Thecla Onely herein saith Epiphan more honourable then Thecla that she was employed to be the instrument of the mysterious birth of our Lord. But suppose she be like onely to other Saints may not they be worshipped Epiphanius proceedes Sed neque Elias adorandus est etiamsi in vivis sit neque Iohannes adorandus neque Thecla neque quisquam Sanctus adoratur Not onely no dead Saint but not so much as they that neuer died may be adored This though we should graunt that the Virgine was assumed though Epiph. seeme rather to argue à maiori and to count her among the dead Neither Elias is to be adored nor Iohn to be adored nor Thecla nor any Saint is to be adored Was it not possible that Epiph. should light vpon your distinction of diminutiue adoration that so often so peremptorie denies it to the Saints that it is lawfull to adore them and neuer comes in and expounds himselfe Non enim dominabitur nobis antiquus error vt relinquamus viuentē adoremus ea quae ab ipso facto sunt For we will not be ouerruled with the auncient error that we should leaue the liuing God and worship the things which he hath made First errors though auncient shall not ouerrule Epiphanius nor antiquitie therefore if it be erroneous Secondly olde errors are olde errors still with Epiphanius though new scoured and new whetted as this by the Iesuits Lastly he will not adore any thing that is factum that is any creature and if he should doe so he thinkes he should relinquere viventem leaue the liuing God which consequence the Iesuits wil not yeild to at this day nor no doubt would the Gossips then in their madde seruice but say that they stucke constant to the liuing God and yet worshipt the Virgine as his notable instrument by a subordinate kind of deuotion And though the margent of the booke translated by a Papist by a Papist corrected and printed by Papists with an epistle before it thus superscribed Omnibus Ecclesiae Catholicae Romanae filijs c. To all the sonnes of the Romane Catholike Church I say though the margent of the booke thus by many interests Popish in the edition may seeme to haue acknowledged no lesse then we plead for by noting as it doth in the side of it Imagines damnatae that is Images are here condemned and againe Sancti non adorandi Saints are not to be adored or worshipped Yet let vs goe on with Epiphanius a steppe further Coluerunt enim adorarunt creaturam praeter creatorem c. It is a trespasse with Epiphanius to worship the creature or to adore the creature for he puts both praeter creatorem beside the creator that is though you exclude not the worship of the Creator but onely take in the worship of the creature Si enim Angelos adorari non vult quanto magis eam quae genita est ab Anna c. non tamen aliter genita est praeter hominum naturam sed sicut omnes ex semine viri vtero mulieris Here here arrige aures Pamphile Here you should doe well to list a while you Polyphilus or rather Pamphilus of all bastard Deities For if saith he God will not haue the Angels to be worshipped how much more wil he not haue her which was borne of Anna and yet not borne otherwise then the fashion is nature of all mankind but c. Two great points assoyled by Epiph. in these fewe words One that the Virgin Marie was not conceiued nor borne after extraordinarie manner as the Iesuites affirme but euen as others are which must needes be in sinne and in corruption Another that shee is not so exalted in heauen but inferiour to the Angels or else the consequence were not good If not the Angels much lesse Mary or the daughter of Anna. There are yet more clauses against the adoration of the Virgin in this tract of Epiph. Non tamen vt adoretur virgo And Sit in honore Maria but Pater filius spiritus Sanctus adorentur Againe Mariam nemo adoret non dico mulierem immo neque virum And Deo debetur hoc mysterium Deleantur quae malè scripta sunt in corde deceptorum Tollatur ex oculis cupiditas ligni Conuertatur rursus figmentum ad Dominum Ne quis comedat de errore qui est propter Mariam nam lignum non erat error sed per lignum c. So by abuse of the blessed Virgin creepes in error into the Church And Etsi pulchrum est lignum sed tamen non ad cibum So Etsi pulcherrima est Maria Sancta honorata at non ad adorationem There are these I say and more sentences yet tending that way but aut hoc satis est testimoniorum as he was wont to say testium aut ego nescio quid sit satis Epiphanius himselfe seemes to be wearie of his owne prolixities Therefore I will conclude with him Quò verò
interpreted his name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as dropping pure Manna a kinsman of the Author mentioned by me before num 5. of this chapter At ille sayes S. Austen fundebat insanias 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 meram The Manna was meere madnesse which came from the Manichee contrà Faust l. 19. cap. 22. The same heretique was so insolent that when he wrote but a letter or an Epistle to his friends wherein the Pope now imitates him in his Breues to his followers his inscription was wont to be Manichaus Apostolus Iesu Christi Manichaus the Apostle of Iesus Christ like Apostolicam benedictionem in the Breues aforenamed witnesse S. Austen in the afore-quoted worke S. Peter himselfe 2. Pet. 2. 1. foretells of false Prophets that should arise in the newe Testament to whome he ascribes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fained speeches or forged speeches framed no doubt at their own will and pleasure and what rather then the names of holynes that they pretend whereof we are now speaking though their cunning I graunt reaches a great deale further but by those they shall buy and sell soules saies S. Peter or make merchandise of them as now with the Papists it is not their meanest inducement they haue to their error that they are called Catholikes Yea our Sauiour himselfe Matth. 7. 15. forewarnes vs of Wolues that should come in sheepes cloathing which how if wee should extend to the apparelling euen of names especially if wee ioyne with it S. Pauls like prophecy of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Act. 20. 29. that is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as he speakes else where 1. Thess 2. 7. Mighty Wolues or Wolues in power or in authority which fieldome want in the Popish prelacy and those 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 rising by succession out of your owne selues v. 30. And yet for these and many more now no such couering as the fleece taken from the sheepes backe the name Catholike I haue said nothing of the Cathari a name neere to the Catholikes yet voluntarily taken by some heretiques vpon themselues as may appeare by the Canon of Constantinople last quoted wherein they iumpe with the Papists whome we call not Catholikes as of our owne head whatsoeuer Bellarmine the Adioynder retort vpon vs but apply our speech to their vsuall fashion and speake as we would be vnderstood by them On the other side did not the heretickes miscall the Catholikes and strippe them as much as in them lay of that glorious name The Pelagians saies S. Austen they called vs Traducians the Arians Homousians the Donatists Macarians the Manichees called vs Pharisees and diuers other heresies diuersly nicknamed vs. Lib. 1. poster contra Iulian Pelag. And was the Catholike cause euer a whit the worse for that No verily For as Theodoret notes most excellently lib. 3. Histor cap. 21. of Iulians madnesse I meane Iulian the Apostate going about to change the name Christians into the name of Galileans most preposteiously sith the name Christian cannot be abolished 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saies S. Luke which we read not yet of the name Catholike that nothing could be more frantique then such a proiect cōsidering that if he effected it as there was smal hope yet there could grow no disparagement to the Christian sect by the change of their name no more then if Nireus were called Thersites or Thersites Nireus the one should be the fayrer or the other more deformed then he was before or as if Homer were called Chaerilus or Chaerilus were called Homer there would follow any change of their veynes in Poetry so here But as Eucherius sayes of the honours and preferments of this world in his Epistle Paraeneticall ad Valerian fratrem when they are crossely and vnworthily as often bestowed that the thing which was inuented to distinguish desert is made to shrowd it to confound it so fares it in this Metaplasme of names many times Dignos indignos non iam discernit dignitas sed confundit And as he had said before in the same booke Alij nomen vsurpant nos vitam Where the height of the title without substance answerable in the party owning it is but as the light of a candle as Marius saies in Salust that discouers blemishes but creates no beauty in an ill fauoured visage presented to it Shall we heare what the holy Ghost saies prophecying of the times which were then to come and which now haue ouertaken vs in all liklyhood of which I may say with S. Hilary changing but a word Malè ves nominum amor cepit or malè partium as he sayes parietum malè Ecclesiam in vocabulis veneramini Thou hast a name that thou art aliue but indeede art dead spoken of the Church of Sardis Reuel 3. ver 1. And Reuel 2. ver 9. they say they are Iewes spoken of certaine miscreants but are not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is descended from Abraham Isaac and Iacob as they alledge but representing nothing lesse in their formes of life What els doe the Papists I wonder at this day entitling themselues Catholikes non sunt though they are nothing lesse either in their life or doctrine specially if we hold to Lirinensis his touch-stone of Vbique Semper ab omnibus receptum Whereas they now would confound Catholike and Romane because they haue much Romane which they cannot prooue Catholike But we haue also further mention in the place aforesaid of the Throne of Satan erected among the faithfull a Metaphor belike taken from the Episcopall throne as if Satan might get into that too ver 13. concerning Pergamus And ver 9. concerning the Church of Smyrna hauing spoken of some that called themselues Iewes that is true worshippers of God and are not as was said before the holy Ghost opposeth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but the Synagogue of Satan As who would say They goe for Ecclesia but are indeed Synagoga and pretend Christ but belong to Satan which is the reproofe that wee charge our aduersaries with and I thinke not causelesse Yea in the second verse of the same chapter because the Pope in all hast would be Apostle or Apostolike for hee claimes the tearme and counts it his inheritance you shall read that some said they were Apostles and were not whom the Church of Ephesus is commended for trying afore shee would trust as S. Iohn also biddes vs to try the Spirits 1. Ioh. 4. 1. and soone after he censures the prating Dietrephes and brings him to his tryall He that doth euill hath not seene God 3. Epistle ver 11. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 How fit was this to be premised before the rest of S. Iohns doctrine throughout the whole mysticall booke of the Apocalyps describing Antichrist such as now he appeares Lastly ver 23. of the said chapter of the Reu. The Churches are to know that it is God which searcheth the hearts and the reynes as not caryed away
am cast out with the Fathers saith he he meanes Catholique Fathers you may be sure And Qui profitentur fidem Catholicam saies S. Austen homil 10. in Apocal. speaking of Antichrist and his leud company Of whom also he addes that Imago eius the Image of the beast simulatio eorum est is their counterfetting and hypocrisie qui fingunt se esse quod non sunt c. Loe the marke of the Church as the Adioynder counts it is the Image of the beast as S. Austen construes it when it is falsly pretended namely the name Catholique Shall we not rest then in the Bishops most graue ponderation Vtriè re magis nomen habeant which of vs two best deserue the title And turne the Adioynders witty descant wherein he doubles vpon the Bishop with Ex ore tuo te iudico because we call them Catholiques to Non ex ore tuote because his neighbours word is to be heard before-his owne iustifying himselfe But of these things hitherto The shippe Euplaea retaines her name though encountred with all crosse lucke at Sea to the laughter of the beholders standing vpon the shore And notwithstanding the name yet she is the game of the tempests Right so is the case when Petri celox as Bembus calls it iets in her titles of magnificence vp and downe after her other scandalls so palpably layd open Not the badge 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 though prognosticating a calme but S. Pauls piety preserued the shippe sayling to Rome Acts 28. as it had the marriners before Acts. 27. in despite of the sea In like sort here Badges and ensignes titles and tearmes protect not Churches but inward worth and diuine grace § 46. IT followes in the Adioynder Num. 35. And the like I may also say concerning his graūt in another matter to wit that our Bishops are true Bishops and that the Protestant Bishops of England had their Ordination from ours yea from 3. of ours for so he giueth to vnderstand whereupon he also inferreth that he and his fellow Superintendents haue a true ordination and succession from the Catholique Church whereas the quite contrary followeth vpon his graunt For if our Bishops be true Bishops as hauing a true succession from the Apostles and that the Protestant Bishops haue no other lawfull ordination but from ours two consequents doe directly follow thereon the ore that we haue the true Church and doctrine if the Bishop his fellow and friend M. Barlow say true who in his famous Sermon mentioned by me elsewhere affirmeth the successiue propagation of Bishops from the Apostles to be the maine root of Christian society according to S. Augustine and the maine proofe of Christian doctrine according to Tertullian as I haue shewed amply in my Supplement and prooued thereby that M. Barlow and his fellowes are heretikes and schismatikes The other consequent is that if the English Protestant Bishops had no other lawfull ordination then from the Catholiques they had none at all for that at the change of Religion in Queene Elizabeths time they were not ordained by any one Catholique Bishop and much lesse by three as the Bishop saith they were but by themselues and by the authority of the Parliament as I haue also declared at large in my Supplement Then Num. 37. Wherupon I inferre two things one that they haue no Clergie nor Church for hauing no Bishops they haue no Priests because none can make Priests but Bishops and hauing neither Bishops nor Priests they haue no Clergie and consequently no Church as I haue shewed in my Supplement out of S. Hierome The other is that the Bishop and his fellowes are neither true Bishops nor haue any succession from the Catholique Church as he saith they haue nor yet any lawfull mission or vocation that therefore they are not those good shepheards which as our Sauiour saith enter into the fold by the doore c. § 47. I answer in one word to his redoubled collections multiplied obseruations beginning with the first of his two inferences concluding with his ground from which he sets out as false as they and more too No Bishops no Priests saies he because only Bishops can make Priests without both them without all Clergy consequently without a Church as I haue shewed in my Supplement out of S. Hierome For still we must heare of the Supplement in any case or els it is no bargain But as for Hierome we may oppose Tertulliā to him that Quod quis accepit dare potest whatsoeuer a man hath receiued he may giue again if occasion be offred in Ecclesiasticall passages And so our Sauiour sets the Date against the accepistis instructing his Apostles about the vse of their gifts which they had receiued of him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith S. Peter And 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Let euerie body communicate a gift as hee hath receiued and As good stewards of the manifold grace of God Though ordinarily it is reason that the treasure should be onely in the Bishop keeping as the faithfullest depositarie to auoid euill dealing 1. Tim. 5. 22. Nemini citò manus imposueris And we know iurisdiction is so restrained in Bishops by the Adioynders owne confession in diuerse places of this booke yea in Priests too who are limited to their quarter for their ordinarie seruice though their power conferred vpon them originally in their ordination extend to euerie member of the Church But I speake what may be done in casu as I said and vpon an exigent only Which if euer it was presented then for certaine when all was so out of frame in the Romane Church Though I might quarrell him also for that where he inferres againe thus No Priests no Church Their Rhemists note that our Sauiour Christ made not the Apostles Priests till his last Supper And yet I hope Christ and his companie were a Church before that time and a Church of the new Testament or else more incongruities will follow I beleeue then the Adioynder will salue vp in hast S. Paul calls Philemons house a Church Yet himselfe was a lay man as the Fathers hold which perhaps would not haue been but that a Church figuratiue may be without a Minister Why not then a true I would but fish their iudgements I am to sift some things for disputation sake For though Archippus was a Minister and Philemons sonne as some thinke yet their houses were distinct as appeares by S. Hieromes Commentarie vpon this place Ambiguum est vtrum Ecclesiam quae in domo Archippi sit an eam quae in domo Philemonis significare velit Apostolus cum dicit se scribere Ecclesiae quae in domo eius est sed mihi videtur non ad Archippi sed ad Philemonis referendum esse personam c. Yea Haymo saies directly asking why S. Paul salutes no Bishops Priests or other
feather and vsurped flower of title at this day Nay verily by the same reason Ministers might not exhort either Kings and Princes or other ciuill Magistrates to doe their duties to gouerne well to administer iustice to heare causes vnpartially to cut off malefactors to root out traitors to suppresse sinne by dint of sword because all these things are vnlawfull to them repugnant to their vocation and yet the Ministers voice is a kind of commandement speaking from the pulpit in Gods stead as was noted before 6. What should I say of calling of Bishops to Synods of setting them on worke to explaine the faith and to confute heresies May Christian Princes either not doe the first which the stories are so full of in the best times or shall they practise and beare a part in the second which the Papists neuer will admit How did Theodosius dismisse Flauianus after so many Popes had in vaine assaulted him commaunding him to depart and doe his dutie vpon his Bishopricke if no body may enioyne but that which he may execute 7. Lastly if a Priest should denie to baptize a young infant that were sicke whose saluation therefore were emperilled and as we graunt in the ordinarie but as the Papists thinke in the extraordinary way and all without any hope of future recouerie if a Priest were so frampoll I say as to refuse to baptize a poore infant in that case shall not the King compell him by force and punishment and terrour of his Lawes We read in the booke of Martyrs of a certaine Knight in Poperie that put a Priest into the graue aliue because he refused to burie a corps that was brought to Church where there was no mortuarie to be had such was their couetousnesse Yet alas what comparison between burying of the dead which our Sauiour makes so sleight of Suffer the dead to bury their dead and the administring of Christs Sacrament for the sauing of a poore soule from euerlasting destruction It is therefore not the vnworthinesse of the ministeriall duties as Mr. Sanders by his Syllogismes would faine driue vs to say or else to let goe our distinction betweene Iniunction and Execution not the basenesse of our office for we magnifie our Ministerie and the Angels are thought to tremble at the weight of it Quis ad haec idoneus said he viz. neither heauenly nor earthly abilities put in one but the meere distance and disunion of the two callings I am loath to say repugnance though that also after a sort which will not permit a Prince to do Priestly offices though his power extend to the commaunding of them to be done yea punishing and correcting if they be not done Cursed be hee that does the Lords worke negligently said the Prophet of old And the heathen Poet assumes Pectora nostra duas non admittentia curas we cannot do Gods worke and the worlds too Therefore God will haue his worke done by such onely as shall intend nor doe no other worke then that For this cause gouernement remaines with the King without any entermedling in the execution of our offices the execution is ours without any right in Gouerning or Compelling And so much to Mr. Sanders why the King should haue Iurisdictiō as the Parlament here speaks or Superinspection without administration or execution which it seemes the Adioynder is no lesse troubled with then Mr. Sanders though he prosecute it not so vehemently I returne to him who is now at his last casts § 91. COncerning then our extending the priuiledges of Supremacie beyond the custome and fashion of other nations he brings no proofe of it and therefore I might contemne it with the same facilitie that he obiects it But first he is to know that the grounds which they hold by either from Scriptures or from Fathers in the auouching of their Supremacy are the same that ours and import as much and extend as farre including the same priuiledges if they be throughly scanned though happily so much appeare not vnto them all at first Or it is the wisedome of Kings to temper their gouernement with such moderation as the condition of their people will best beare for the present more as there shall bee more opportunitie afterward sic fortis Hetruria creuit To omit that for so much as others exercise these acts in those Kingdomes though they deriue not their authoritie so literally from the King yet the Kings permission is their deputation and so the Supremacie still remaines in himselfe Euen the Popes Supremacie is not the like with all nor of the like extension We knowe what narrowe bounds the French haue set to it with their Pragmaticall Sanction And the Sorbone of Paris hath euermore curtailed it Few that amplifie it as fully as the Canonists Bellarmine himself goes not so farre as Carerius The Bishops of some places were freer then others in some the Deacons stept afore the Priests And diuerse things belonging to the qualitie of each order are determined by Councels in processe of time rather then acknowledged by all at first Doth this therefore preiudice either Bishops or Priests No verily And so all that dissent about the bounds of Supremacy are not straight to be reckoned for enemies to the Supremacie God forbid For I will not say as I might and yet without flatterie that wee of the ENGLISH may the better enlarge the KINGS MAIESTIES priuiledges as farre as possibly may stand with Gods word because we are more sensible of his HIGHNES liberalities then any others and his extraordinary fauour hath abounded towards vs. We may say as the Iewes did to the Apostle S. Iames witnesse Eusebius lib. 2. hist cap. 23. Obsecramus te Obtemperamus tibi Tibi omnes obedimus Etenim omnis populus testificatur de te quòd iustus sis nec personā accipis And which neuer any of Peter Quot quot credebant propter IACOBVM credebant Propagatorem fidei Malleum haeresum As for that which followes Sta ergò super pinnam templi vt conspiciaris ab vniuersis verba tua omnes exaudiant I need not adde it since God hath done it I meane exalted his MAIESTIE to the top of Soueraigntie euen of Temple and all from whence the Nations farthest off attend his answers and the world round about craues his resolution in greatest matters § 92. AND so beseeching ALMIGHTIE GOD to giue vs as large a heart to vnderstand our owne good and his MAIESTIES rare fauours and charities towards vs as he hath enlarged the heart of his most EXCELLENT MAIESTIE to all Princely wisedome and possible vertue but especially to ouer-cherish his deare spouse the CHVRCH Let vs thanke him also for the occasion of these two labours of the right worthy Bishop though in it selfe it was not so expetible and make much of the two pignora that the Church hath from him two radiant lights two lasting pillars 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as
we come to the place which is Chap. 3. num 36. as we are told by you In the meane time you recken without your host the Bishop graunts nothing that he will not stand to Be you but content with that which he pitches and the controuersie will soone be at an ende But did you euer heare such an impudent varlet that plaies vpon the word temporall primacie and denies they giue any such to the Pope What is their primacie but a primacie of power and if the power then be temporall is not the primacie so Now for that let but Bellarmine declare his opinion who intitles his 5. booke de Pontif. Rom. De potestate Pontificis temporali Of the temporall power of the Pope This is plaine but in the argument of the sixt chapter of the same booke more plainly Papam habere temporalem potestatem indirectè That the Pope hath temporall power at least indirectly Whereas we neither ascribe to the King spirituall primacie ouerhastily nor are wont to call his power spirituall If the Bishop haue so done let the place be named and the imputation verified wherewith F. T. chargeth vs Num. 15. though very wrongfully as if we nourished a doctrine of the Kings spirituall primacie Yet they say Sixtus Quintus would haue had those works of Bellarmine to be burnt perhaps for giuing him temporall power onely and not temporall primacy totidem verbis And here our lepus pulpamentum quaerit a wretch and most obnoxious to all manner of scorne flourishes and descants with his leaden wit vpon a corporall Bishop as he calls him Bonner I trow who excused his corpulencie wherewith hee was wont to be painted with saying he had but one doublet too little for him and the knaue hereticks alway painted him in that If you talke of a punisher of bodies he was one We doe not know God be thanked that our Bishops haue any such power in these daies by the examples we see but that you tell vs so And there was a time when your Popes themselues could inflict no punishments of this nature saies Papirius Massonius in the life of Leo the second Now all their strength stands that way And so I might say of the punishing of the purse and the gaines of the Bishops court which you so enuie wheras not onely he is not forward to deale punishments and much lesse to gain by the parties punished but I haue heard his Chancellour whom certenly you meant when you taxed the Courts vtterly disanow that their Courts condemne any body in mony howsoeuer offending How beit if Kings to whome all the power of the sword is cōmitted that is all kind of coactiue punishment should giue the Bishops leaue to mulct the purse rather then their censures should be contēned what is that to the Popes either exercising or challenging to himself I know not what tēporal power by vertue of his Apostleship and originall calling without donation or delegation from Princes Though againe if this be graunted which I beleeue not as yet because I haue beene otherwise informed as I said that the Bishops are so licensed by authoritie from his MAIESTIE here in England yet the Bishop whome you shoot at is so farre from delighting in any such markets that he had rather redeeme offences with his losse then raise profit to himselfe out of punishments Imperatorem me peperit mater said Scipio non bellatorem when one chidde him as too remisse and loath to fight So he S. Theodoret saith sweetly that there are no punishments in heauen in regione hyacinthina of which farther you may heare in his due place And the Bishops calling is a kind of heauen How much more when it is ioyned with conscience and clemencie Which is so proper to the Prelate of whome we speake as you may wonder both his Office and Sea sauouring of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of mercie and compassion rather then of rigour but his nature much more And if S. Chrysostomes argument for Kings be good that they are called to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 because unnointed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is called to mercy because annointed with oyle it may guide you to conceiue aright herein of the Bishop whose practise acquites him without hidden emblemes or forced hieroglyphicks Vnlesse you thinke that because he handled Tortus somewhat roughly or the Cardinall either therefore he is more vindicatiue out of his disposition But for that you may remember that he was the Kings Almoner and dealt his liberalities as they had beene best deserued Now leauing the digression that this mans malepertnes hath driuen vs vnto what saies he for substance to the Bishops third exception as himselfe branches it § 43. IT is enough saies he that Cyrill and Austen denie not the temporall power of Peter though they auerre it not in their commentaries Forsooth they expound not Pasce halfe perfectly wherein surely they are to blame in so large a Commentarie as few haue written vpon that Scripture to say nothing of a thing so materiall as that or so principall rather and yet so obuious when the text lies naked before their eyes For it is a necessarie consequent the temporall power saies our Iesuit here of the spirituall Which yet Mr. Blackwell will neuer beleeue nor those authors whom he quotes to the contrarie that make it a point like the new-found lands or vnfound rather so wholly vndefined and vnresolued whether the Pope haue any such peece of dominion yea or no. Besides he should haue shewed the necessarie consequence betweene the two powers which because he does not I thinke he either saw it not or lacked abilitie to expresse his minde Me thinkes nothing easier then to conceiue so of them that though linked in vse yet diuided in nature and so likewise in subiect as Gelasius gaue caution long agoe very well of not confounding them like the two armes in a mans bodie or the two lights in the firmament so farre I am content to goe with Bonifacius yea or the two swords themselues ecce duo gladij whereof one questionlesse depended not of another though your exposition be so good that Stella is ashamed of it and diuerse more of your owne men § 44. That S. Austen acknowledged the Popes temporall primacie implyed in those words Pasce oues meas you bring no other places then we haue hitherto answered and it might be thought too largely but that you bring them againe as primus Apostolorum and propter primatum Apostolatús of which no more Let them preuaile as they can So likewise I say of representare personam which you inforce here againe to be supreame gouernour ouer the Church This is your riches that runne round in a ring and choake the children of the Prophets with your crambe and yet cry out of the Bishop for his nakednesse and pouertie in proouing the cause Numb 15. As for that you here adde that no other