thinges wel done vpon very good reason For shortely to saie the truthe these folke falsely accuse and sclaunder al our dooinges yea the same thinges which they them selues cannot denie but to be rightly and orderly donne and for malice doo so misconstrue and depraue al our saienges and dooings as though it were impossible that any thinge could be rightly spoken or donne by vs. They should more plainely sincerely haue gonne to woorke if they would haue dealte truely But nowe they neither truely nor sincerely nor yet Christianly but darkely and craftily charge and batter vs with lies and doe abuse the blindenesse and fondenesse of the people togeather with the ignorance of Princes to cause vs to be hated and the Truthe to be suppressed This lo ye is the power of darkenesse and of men whiche leane more to the amased wonderinge of the rude multitude and to darkenesse then they doo to Truthe Light and as S. Hierome saithe doo openly gainsaie the Truthe closinge vp theire eies and wil not see for the nonce But we geue thankes to the most good and mighty God that sutche is our cause where against when they would fainest they were hable to vtter no despite but the same whiche might as wel be wreasted against the Holy Fathers against the Prophetes against the Apostles against Peter against Paule and against Christe him selfe M. Hardinge The Catholikes doo not burden you with ought wherein by their owne iudgementes they condemne themselues as ye sclaunder them not onely here but oftentimes in your Booke For if they iudged otherwise they would not wittingly do against their iudgemente That is the special propertie of an Heretike whom S. Paule hiddeth al men to a voide knowinge that he that is suche is peruerted and seemeth euen condemned by his owne iudgement They shewe bothe your blasphemous Heresies and your wicked actes Luther ye knowe powred out his Heresies and villanies c. Your robbinge of Churches persecutinge of men for standinge sâ—edfastly in the faithe of the Holy forefathers your incestuous mariages of Monkes Friers and Nonnes your breache of solemne vowes for fleashly pleasure your prophaninge and abandoninge of Holy Sacramentes your contempt of auncient and godly ordinaunces and discipline of the Churche and suche other thinges of like estimation For in deede the catholikes doo persecute you if suche deserued entreatinge of euill persons maye be called persecution and al good folk besides wee grâ—â—te and shal so doe so longe as they love the Truthe and keepe them in the vnitie of the Churche Yet with no other minde doo they persecuâ—e you then Sara did Agar then Christ the Iewes whom he whipt out of the Temple then â—eter did Sâ—nom Magus The B. of Sarisburie Yewis M. Hardinge it might please you to remember that Bartholomaeus Latomus a Doctour of your side confesseth in writinge to al the worlde yâ— our request touchinge the Holy Ministration vnder Bothe Kindes accordinge to Christes first Institution is iuste and reasonable That Gerardus Lorichius an other of your owne side saithe Sunt Pseâ—docatholici qui Reformationem Ecclesiae quoquo modo remorari non verentur They be false Catholiques and this M. Hardinge he speaketh of you beinge one of your owne they be False Catholiques that hinder the Reformation of the Churche by al meanes they be hable He saithe you be false Catholiques far contrary to the common opinion and concludeth in the ende that the wilful mainteinance and sequel of your Doctrine in this pointe is as he calleth it Haeresis Blasphemia pestilens execrabilis An Heresie and a Blayhemie against God Pestilent and Cursed That others of your â—de confesse that this your vse of Ministration vnder one kinde whiche nowe ye cal Catholique began first not of Christe or his Apostles or any Ancient Learned Father but onely of the errour or as he better termeth it of the simple Deuotion of the People That Albertus Pighius the stoutest gallante of al your Campe graunteth there haue benne and be many Abuses in your Passe notwithstandinge ye haue tolde vs far otherwise That Pope Pius oftentimes graunted and vsed commonly to saie He sawe great causes why Priestes shoulde be restoared to the libertie of Mariage That Pope Adrian by his Legate Cheregatus confessed openly at Norenherg in the General Diet of al the Princes of Germanie that al the il of the Churche came firste à culmine Pontificio From the toppe Castle of the Pope And to be short M. Hardinge it might haue pleased you to remember that your selfe in your first Booke in the Defence of your Priuate Passe haue written thus Mary I denie not but that it were more commendable and more Godly on the Churches Parte if many well disposed and examined woulde be partakers of the blessed Sacramente with the Prieste Al these thinges M. Hardinge be they â—ses or Abuses Reasonable or Vnreasonable Right or Wronge Better or woorse Be they neuer so wicked neuer so Blasphemous neuer so cursed yet be they stoutly defended stil and no hope offered of amendement With what Conscience of your parte he onely sâ—eth that sâ—eth the Conscience You graunte ye persecute your brethren where ye haue the Swerd and maye persecute but as Sara did Agar as Christe did the Iewes and not otherwise Verily M. Hardinge that Christe or Sara were persecutours I haue not greatly heard But I remember Chrysostome saithe thus Nunquid Ouis Lupum persequitur aliquando Non sed Lupus ouem Sic enim Caim persecutus est Abel non Abel Caim Sic Ismael persecutus est Isaac non Isaac Ismael Sic Iudaei Christum non Christus Iudaeos Haeretici Christianos non Christiani Haeresicos Ergo ex fructibus corum cognoscetis eos What doothe the Sheepe perscute the Woulfe at any time No but the Woulfe doothe persecute the Sheepe For so Caim persecuted Abel not Abel Caim So Ismael persecuted Isaac not Isaac Ismael So the Iewes persecuted Christe not Christe the Iewes So the Heretiques persequute the Christians not the Christiaus the Heretiques 〈◊〉 ye shal knowe them by their fruites S. Augustine saithe Non eo modo persecutionem passi sunt Pseudoprophetae ab Elia quomodo ipse Elias à Rege nequissimo Neither were the Palse Prophetes so persecuted by Elias as Elias was persecuted by the wicked Kinge Surely Chrysostome saithe Quem videris in sanguine persequutionis gaudentem Lupus est Whome so euer ye see â—eioicinge in the Bloudde of persequution he is the VVoulfe But yée pretende greate good wil and saye Ye persecute and murder your Brethren for Loue as Christe persequuted the Iewes So I trowe Aristophancs saithe Philippides tooke a cudgel and beatte his Father and al for loue How be it M. Hardinge neither are you armed as Christe was armed nor was Christe armed as you are armed I must saye to you as S. Augustine saithe vnto the Heretiques the
nor receiue the Holy Communion let them be put from the Communion of the Churche as menne that woorke the breache of Order Likewise it is noted in the Margin vpon the same Canons Omnes olim qui intererant Communicabant In olde times al that vvere presente did Communicate In the Councel of Antioche it was decreed thus Omnes qui ingrediuntur in Ecclesiam Dei Sacras Scripturas audiunt auersantur autem perceptionem Dominici Sacramenti c. ab Ecclesia abijci oportet c. Al that comme into the Churche of God and heare the Holy Scriptures and refuse the receiuinge of the Lordes Sacramente let them be put from the Churche These Decrees reache not onely to the Ministers of the Churche but also to the whole people Clemens that was Bishop in Rome as it is thought nexte after this Anacletus saithe thus Tanta in Altario Holocausta offerantur quanta populo sufficere debeant Let so many loues be offered at the Aultar as maie suffise to serue not onely the Ministers but also the People S. Ambrose saithe Munus oblatum totius populi fit quia in vno Pane omnes significantur Per idem enim quòd vnum sumus de vno Pane omnes sumere oportet The oblation offered is made the vvhole peoples for that in one Breade al are signified For in that wee are al one vvee must al receiue of one Breade S. Chrysostome saithe vnto the people Neque nos abundantiùs vos autem minùs de Sacra Mensa participamus Sed pariter ex aequo illam vtrique degustamus â—â— either doo wee receiue more and you lesse of the Holy Table but wee taste thereof equally bothe togeather The like might be alleged out of S. Hierome S. Augustine Dionysius and others But for as mutche as ye so bitterly tel vs that wée misconstrue these woordes of Anacletus and deceiue the vnlearned Reader with a lie maie it therefore please you farther to heare what your owne late Scholastical Doctours haue written and iudged in this behalfe Thomas of Aquine saithe In Primitiua Ecclesia quando magna vigebat deuotio Fidei Christianae statutum fuit vt Fideles quotidiè Communicarent In the Primitiue Churche when greate Deuotion of the Christian Faithe was in strength it was ordeined that the Faitheful should receiue the Communion euery daie Durandus saithe In Primitiua Ecclesia omnes Fideles quotidiè Communicabant In the Primitiue Churche al the Faitheful daiely receiued the Communion Hugo Cardinalis saithe In Primitiua Ecclesia omnes quotquot intererant Canoni Missae singulis diebus Communicabant Et si nollent communicare egrediebantur post Offertorium In the Primitiue Churche as many as vvere presente at the Canon of the Masse did daiely Communicate and if they woulde not they departed foorthe after the Offertorie If ye thinke these authorities are not sufficient Iohannes Cochlaeus saithe Omnes olim tum Sacerdotes tum Laici cum Sacrificante Communicabant sicut ex Canonibus Apostolorum ex Libris antiquissimorum Ecclesiae Doctorum perspicuè cognoscitur Hic vnicum hac de re Canonem recitabo qui Calixto adscribitur Peracta c. In olde times bothe al the Priestes and al the Laie people receiued the Communion with the Minister that had made the Oblation as it is plainely perceiued by the Canons of the Apostles and by the Bookes of the Ancient Doctours of the Churche One Canon hereof I wil allege written by Calixtus c. Likewise saithe Iudocus Clichthoueus In Primitiua Ecclesia Fideles quotidiè sumebant Communionem secundum illam Calixit sanctionem Peracta c. In the Primitiue Churche the Faitheful receiued the Communion euery daie accordinge to this Decree of Calixtus c. Here you maie sée not onely that these woordes are alleged by your owne Doctours vnder the name of Calixtus wherein you haue noted so greate an errour but also that the same woordes by the iudgement of the same Doctours are thought to perteine no lesse to the Laie people then to the Prieste Nowe M. Hardinge these thinges considered I referre the indifferent iudgement hereof to your owne knowledge and Conscience whether of vs twoo hath deceiued the Reader with a lie The Apologie Cap. 12. Diuision 3. More ouer when the People commeth to the holy Communion the Sacrament ought to be geueÌ„ them in Bothe Kindes for so bothe Christe hath commaunded and the Apostles in euery place haue ordeined and al the Ancient Fathers and Catholique Bishoppes haue folowed the same And who so doothe contrarie to this he as Gelasius saithe committeth Sacrilege And therefore wee saie that our Aduersaries at this daie who hauinge violently thruste out and quite forebidden the Holy Communion doo without the woorde of God without the Authoritie of any Ancient Councel without any Catholique Father without any ExaÌ„ple of the Primitiue Churche yea and without reason also defende and maineteine their Priuate Masses and the manglinge of the Sacramentes and doo this not onely against the plaine expresse Commaundemente of Christe but also againste al Antiquitie doo wickedly therein are very Churcherobbers M. Hardinge Softe and fayre Maisters Ye shewe more heate then witte more stomake then learninge more anger then reason Ye saie muche and prooue little But saie ye and saie againe what ye wil we tel you boldely that neither Christe euer commaunded * nor the Apostles ordeined * nor al the Ancient Fathers obserued that the Sacrament be geuen to the people none otherwise but vnder bothe Kindes onely If Christe had expressely commaunded it the Churche of Rome had not so longe time receiued and kepte the vse of one Kinde The Apostles and sundry Holy Fathers Ministred bothe Kindes we confesse That the one Kinde was not also by them Ministred and that it is vtterly vnlawful we denie and the same shal ye neuer be able to proue Touchinge this whole pointe and how litle that ye alleage out of Celasius maketh for you and concerninge Masse not to be omitted for lacke of Companie to communicate Sacramentally with the Prieste I haue saide yuongh in my answeare to your fellowe M. Iuel his chalenge Bringe ye other stuffe and better then this or els al the worlde wil see your haltinge and the feblenesse of your side That we haue violently thruste out and quite forbidden the Holy Communion onlesse ye meane your owne Schismaticall mutable and polluted Communion if there were any sparke of shame or harted of liynge in you ye woulde neuer impute it vnto vs. God dothe knowe and the Worlde is not vnwittinge how muche howe often and how earnestly the Catholike Churche exhorteth her Children to prepare themselues to receiue their Maker And though the people of Englande of late yeeres resorted not commonly thereto yet the deuotion of Christen folke in this Countrie of base Almaigne in Fraunce in Italy in Spaine
not wel calle her the Holy Father In déede thus ye haue it prouidentely noted vpon your Decre talles Est quaedam Spiritualitas secundum statum quando est in statu Sanctissimo Spiritualissimo in hoc statu est Solus Summus Pontifex There is a certaine Spiritual Holinesse according to the state moste Holy and moste Spiritual and in this state is onely the Highest Bishop that is the Pope And a Special Statute of premunire in the Popes behalfe is written thus Papa de Homicidio vel Adulterio accusari non potest Vnde Sacrilegij instar esset disputare de facto suo Nam facta Papae excusantur vt Homicidia Samsonis Furta Hebraeorū Adulteria Iacob The Pope maie neuer be accused neither of Aduouterie nor of Murther Therefore it were as badde as Churcherobbinge to reason or moue mater of any his dooinges For what so euer he doo it is excused as are the Murthers committed by Samson the Robberies in Egypte by the Jewes and y◠Aduouteries of Iacob And againe In Papa si defint bona acquisita per meritum sufficiunt quae à loci praedecessore praestantut In the Pope if there want good deedes gotten by his own inerites yet the good deedes donne by S. Peter that was his Predecessoure in that place are sufficiente But S. Hierome saithe far otherwise Non Sanctorum Filij sunt qui tenent loca Sanctorum Sed qui exercent opera eorum They are not alwaies the children of Holy menne that fitte in the places of Holy menne but they that doo the woorkes of Holy menne Therefore I maie saie to you M. Harding as S. Augustine saith to Emeritus y◠Heretique Noli Frater noli obsecro nō te decet eisi aliquē fortè deceat si tamē quicquā deceat malos Emeritum certè non decet defendere Optatum Doo not my Brother doo not I praie you It be commeth you not Although happily it maie becomme somme other man If any thing maie becomme the wicked Yet verily it becommeth not Emeritus to defende Optatus in open wickenesse S. Hierome saith Si quis hominem qui Sanctus non est Sanctum esse crediderit Dei eum iunxerit socierari Christum violat cuius Corporis omnes membra sumus Qui dicit inquit Iustum Iniustum Iniustum Iustum abominabilis est vterque apud Deum Et rursus qui dicit Sanctum non esse Sanctum rursus non Sanctum esse Sanctum est abominabilis apud Deum Who so beleeuèth that man to be Holy that is not Holy and ioineth the same man to the felowship of God dooth villanie to Christe For al we are members of his Body It is written Bothe he that calleth a Iuste man Wicked and he that calleth a Wicked man Iuste are bothe abominable before God Likewise who so saith a Holy man is not Holy or An Vnholy man is Holy is abominable before God The Apologie Cap. 8. Diuision 2. 3. Yf we be counted Traitours whiche doo honoure our Princes which geue them al obedience as mutche as is due to them by Gods woorde and doo praie for them what kinde of men then bee these whiche haue not onely donne al the thinges before saide but also allowe the same for specially wel donne Doo they then either this waie instructe the people as wee doo to reuerence theire Magistrate or can thei with honestie appeach vs as seditious personnes breakers of the common quiete and despisers of Princes Maiestie Truely we neither put of the yoke of obedience from vs neither doo we disorder Realmes nor doo we set vp or pulle downe Kinges nor doo wee translate gouernementes nor geeue wee our Kinges poison to drinke nor yet holde foorth to them our feete to kisse nor opprobriously triumphe ouer thē nor leape into theire neckes with our feete This rather is our Profession this is our Doctrine that euery soule of what callinge so euer it bee bee it Monke bee it Preacher be it Prophete be it Apostle ought to be Subiecte to Kinges and Magistrates yea and that the Bishop of Rome him selfe onlesse he wil seeme greater then the Euangelistes then the Prophetes or the Apostles ought bothe to acknoweledge and to cal the Emperour his Lorde and Maister as the Olde Bishoppes of Rome who liued in times of more grace euer did Our common teachinge also is that we ought so to obeie Princes as menne sent of God and that who so withstandeth them withstandeth Goddes ordinance This is our Doctrine this is wel to be seene both in our Bookes and Preachinges and also in the manners and modeste behaueour of our people M. Hardinge The Doctrine of obedience apperteineth specially to subiectes The Bishop of Rome sittinge by due succession in the chaire of Peter in spiritual causes can haue no Superiour In temporal matters it maie be that in one age he hath acknowledged the Emperoure as the Lorde of that prouince where he liued as before Constantine al the Popes did liue in subiection and in an other age he maie be Lorde thereof him selfe Likewise S. Gregorie might cal Mauritius his Lorde either of courtesie or of custome and yet our Holy Father Pius the fourth shal not be bounde to do the like in consideration that the custome hath longe sence ben discontinewed Neither did S. Gregorie by that title of honour preiudicate vnto him selfe in any spiritual iurisdiction For that name notwithstandinge he gouerned the whole Churche and complained that Maximus was made Bishop of Salonae a Cittie in Illyrico without his Auctoritie not regarding that Mauritius the Emperoure was thought to haue willed it so to be donne And therefore he writeth to Constantia the Empresse that for as mutche as neither he nor his depute was made priuie to it that the thinge had benne donne whiche neuer was donne before by any of the Princes that were the Emperours Predecessours The B. of Sarisburie What néede you to speake so precisely and so nicely of your Causes Spiritual M. Harding Ye knowe that your Pope hath claimed and yet claimeth his Souerainetie not onely in Spiritual Causes but also in Tēporal as it shal appeare He wil saie ye are an il Proctoure and doo him wronge and goe aboute to abridge his right that wil so lightly exclude that thinge that he so gréedily wil haue included You saie The Pope can haue no Superioure in Spiritual Causes And yet by the Iudgement of sundrie your Doctours euen in Causes Spiritual the Councel is Superioure to the Pope and maie summone him and Iudge him and geeue Sentence againste him and depose him As hereafter it shal be declared more at large Thus is it noted of pourpose vpon your owne Decrees Cùm agitur de Fide tunc Synodus Maior est quà m Papa When the case is mooued in a mater of Faithe that is to saie in a cause Spiritual then is
saith Non mea Causa sed Dei est NoÌ„ ego solus sed tota turbatur Ecclesia Quia piae Leges quia venerandae Synodi quia ipsa Domini nostri lesu mandata Superbi atque pompatici cuiusdam Sermonis inuentione tuibantur It is Goddes cause It is not mine Not I onely am troubled therewith but also the whole Churche For the Godly Lawes the Reuerende Synodes and the very Commaundementes of oure Lorde Iesu are broken by the inuention of a certaine prowde and pompouse Name Againe Nullus Romanorum Pontificum hoc Singularitatis NomeÌ„ assumpsit Nullus Decessorum meorum hoc tam profano vocabulo vti consensit Nos hunc honorem nolumus oblatum recipere None of al the Bishoppes of Rome euer tooke vpon him this name of Singularitie None of my Predecessours euer consented to vse this Vngodly style wee our selues wil not receiue this honoure though it were offered Thus it appeareth by the Iudgemente of S. Gregorie that this Vniuersal Authoritie is vtterly vnlawful not onely in other Bishoppes but also euen in the Bishop of Rome Touchinge the place of S. Hierome I sée ye are contente to geue ouer and to recante youre former erroure For in your Firste Booke ye saie these woordes are Notable aboue others and therefore might not be dissembled And where S. Hierome saithe The safetie of the Churche hangeth of the Dignitie of the Highe Prieste meaninge thereby euery seueral Bishop within his owne Limites ye thought it good thus to lard the same by a proper pareÌ„thesis with certaine other special stuffe of your owne prouision He meaneth the Pope Peters Successour as if this Highe Prieste of whom S. Hierome writeth could be none other but the Bishop of Rome Now vpon somme better aduise by waie of Retractation ye saie thus This peerelesse Authoritie aboue al other S. Hierome dooth attribute to the Bishop of euery Diocese whiche in déede was the very meaninge of S. Hierome Certainely if S. Hierome by these woordes meante Onely the Bishop of Rome as ye tolde vs before then he meant not the Particulare Bishop of euery Diocese as ye tel vs nowe Therefore ye muste néedes confesse that either nowe or before ye haue soughte meanes to beguile your Reader As for the Pope Peters Successour he meante nomore of him then of any other Bishop If it shal likewise hereafter please you to cal in other your like ouersightes ye shal publishe more truthe and encumber your Reader with lesse Erroure The Apologie Cap. 14. Diuision 3. Bernarde the Abbate aboue foure hundred yeeres paste writeth thus Nothinge is novve sincere and pure emongest the Cleregie vvherefore it resteth that the Man of Sinne shoulde be reueled The same Bernarde in his Treatie of the Conuersion of S. Paule It seemeth novve saithe he that Persecution hath ceased no no persecution seemeth but novve to beginne and that euen from theÌ„ vvhich haue chiefe preeminence in the Church Thy frendes and neighbours O God haue dravven neere and stood vp against thee froÌ„ the sole of the foor to the crovvn of the head there is no part vvhole Iniquitie is proceded from the Elders the ludges and Deputees vvhiche pretende to rule thy people VVee cannot saie novve Looke hovve the people is so is the Prieste For the people is not so il as is the Prieste Alas alas O Lorde God the self same persones be the chiefe in persecuâ—ing thee vvhich seeme to loue the Highest place and beare moste rule in thy Churche The same Bernarde againe vpon the Canticles writeth thus Al thei are thy frendes yet are thei al thy foes Al thy kinnesfolke yet are thei al thy aduersaries Beinge Christes seruauntes thei serue Antichriste Beholde in my reste my bitternesse is moste bitter The Apologie Cap. 15. Diuision 1. Roger Bacon also a man of greate fame after he had in a vehemente Oration touched to the quicke the woeful state of his owne time These so many errours saith he require and looke for Antichriste Gerson complaineth that in his daies al the Substance and efficacie of Sacred Diuinitie was brought vnto a glorious contention oftentatioÌ„ of wittes very Sophistrie The poore menne called pauperes à Lugduno menne as touching the manner of theire life not to be misliked were woonte boldely to affirme that the Romishe churche from whence alone al Counsel and Order was then sought was the very same Halot of Babylon and rovvte of Diuels whereof is Prophesied so plainely in the Apocalyps M. Hardinge Now commeth me he in with a newe band which consisteth of tagge and ragge and a weake companie God knoweth they be to shewe theire faces againste the Catholike Churche whiche as the Holy Ghoste speaketh by Salomon is terrible like an armie of men set in bataile raie Firste frier Bacon the Coniurer and negromanser as commonly they saie o him he is set in the forewarde a man of greate fame forsoothe Then commeth in the good plaine father Gerson a writer in our Graundfathers time he complaineth that Friers and studentes gaue them selues too mutche to the vnprofitable subtilitie of Scholastical questions VVhat maketh this againste the faithe of the Churche After these this Defender placeth in an out winge the falle brethern of Lyons commonly called VValdenses or Pauperes de Lugduno notorius Heretikes condemned of the Churche These beinge detestable Heretikes condemned of the Churche we recke not what they saie no more then what Luther saieth what Zuinglius what Caluine what these Defenders them selues saie what Antichriste what Sathan saieth For the enimies of Gods truthe maie not be admitted to geue witnes againste the Truthe The B. of Sarisburie Of these laste Authorities whiche ye calle tagge and ragge wée neuer made any greate accoumpte Notwithstandinge bothe Iohannes Gerson and Rogerus Bacon were notable and famouse in theire times and in al respectes comparable then with the beste Plaine Father Gerson for by sutche woordes ye thought if beste to quaile his credite beinge otherwise coumpted a suttle disputer and a profounde Schole Doctoure vvas Chauncellar of the Vniuersitie of Parise and for his wisedome and Learninge was thought woorthy to be the Directoure of al the Bishoppes in the Councel of Constance Rogerus Bacon as it appeareth by his Booke De Idiomate Linguarum was hable to iudge of the Latine Greeke and Hebrevve tongues and difides diuerse other Bookes writeth also sundrie Epistles vnto Pope Clemente wherein he mutche complaineth of the ruine and Confusion of the Churche Certainely the weakest of these bothe hath more weight and Substance then either your Amphilochius or your Abdias or your Hippolytus or your Leontius or youre Anacletus or your Pope Clemens whom ye so often cal the Apostles felovve Howe be it there is no man so simple but maie beare witnesse to the Truthe Clemens Alexandrinus Lactantius Arnobius Eusebius S. Augustine other Holy Fathers thought it no preiudice to theire cause to allege the witnesse of the Frantique Sibylles
lies here be made at once VVhereas of al these neuer a one leadde his life at Rome but Laurence Valla who was a Canon of Laterane and this Defender saieth that al did there is one lie That al these might see the Popes secretes there be two lies That none of these foresooke the Catholike faithe there be three lies As for Laurence Valla he was not in euery pointe very sounde as it appeareth in his Booke of Free wil and in his annotations vpon the newe Testamente In althinges he handled he shewed him selfe newe fangled rather then groundedly lerned as wel in grammer and logike as in diuinitie But Mars lius of Padua to please the Emperouve Ludouicus Bauarus who liued aboue twoo hundred yeeres paste through malice conceiued againste Pope Iohn the xxij of whom the saide Ludouicus was for iuste causes excommunicate went so farre in schisme as at length he fel into Heresie And Abbot Ioachim whiles he reproued Peter Lombarde vttered Heresie contrarie to the Catholike faithe touchinge the Trinitie and therefore his booke was condemned by the Churche though his person was not condemned because he submitted him selfe and his writinges to the iudgemente of the Holy Romaine Churche as we finde in the Decretals That al these haue greately and often complained of the Bishoppes of Rome theire tyrannie and pride there be foure lies That they declared the Pope him selfe to be very Antichriste there be fiue lies And whereas to make this shameles lie you aske leaue so we aske leaue of you to tel it you and to challenge you of a lie and saieplainely vnto you that speaking of them al you belie them and that you shal neuer be able to proue that you saie of them Francis Petrarch the Italian Poēte and Baptiste of Mantua the Latine Poëte speake like Poëtes eche of them once in theire woorkes againste the euil manners of the Courte of Rome But what proufe maketh al this that the Romaine Churche that is to saie the Weast Churche whiche onely remaineth and euer hath remained whole and sound of Faithe erreth in Doctrine Or what argumente can you gather out of al these I wil not saie againste the life but againste the office Auctoritie and dignitie of the Bishop of Rome The argumente you can make hereupon is this Poëtes reprehende the vices of the Courte of Rome Ergo the Pope is Antichriste Or ergo the Catholike Churche erreth and is to be foresaken VVhat force is in this reason euery reasonable man be he neuer so meane of witte may soone iudge The B. of Sarisburie Your Comparison of Madde Dogges M. Hardinge becommeth wel the rest of your Courteous eloquence Who so shal marke howe vainely you snappe at what so euer ye can imagine is in your waie nowe at our Logique nowe at our Rhetorique nowe at our Greeke nowe at our Latine nowe at our Lamenesse nowe at our leane Cheekes nowe at oure thinne Beardes nowe at our Superintendenteshippes nowe at our Ministershippes nowe at oure Maistershippes nowe at our Mashippes for this is the sobrietie and grauitie of your speache and further howe greedily and egrely ye fasten your teeth and feede your selfe with Winde and are stil snappinge and catche nothinge although in regarde of manhood he spare to cal you a Madde Dogge as it liketh you to calle others yet he maie wel thinke you scarcely to be a sober man Christe founde faulte sommetime with the Bishoppes Sommetime with the Priestes Sommetime with the Scribes Sommetimes with the Phariseis Sommetime with the People Sommetime with theire Religion Sommetime with theire Traditions Sommetime with theire Ignorance Sommetime with theire Praiers Sommetime with theire Fastinges sommetime with theire Life Sommetime with theire Hypocrisie Sommetime with theire Crueltie And thus in your fantasie he ranne hither and thither vp and downe Yet I trowe ye wil not touche him with your Comparisons nor saie therfore as ye saie to vs he had a very vnquiet Heade Who so hath eies to see and considereth the miserable Abuses of the Churche of Rome touchinge either Life or Religion cannot lightly wante iuste mater to reproue Ye remember what Churche it is whereof S. Bernarde saithe A planta pedis vsque ad verticem Capitis non est Sanitas vlla Non est iam dicere vt Populus sic Sacerdos Quia nec sic Populus vt Sacerdos There is not one whole place from the sole of the foote to the toppe of the Heade Wee maie not nowe saie As is the People so is the Prieste For the People is nothinge so il as is the Prieste Ye saie these witnesses dwelt not in Rome and here in a smal matter ye haue noted a great lie Howe be it Bernarde the Abbate that dwelte furtheste of was twise in Rome and was Chiefe of Councel with Pope Innocentius in his greateste affaires Franciscus Petrarcha was made Poete in the Capitol and keapte Laura his Concubine in the eie of the Pope and had his moste aboade in Rome Laurentius Valla vvas Cauon of the Cathedral Churche in Laterane and leadde his Life and died in Rome Briefely S. Bernarde onely excepted al the reste were Italians and dwelte neuer far from Rome as it maie appeare by the plainenesse of theire speache vnderstoode somme parte of the déepeste Secretes of the Churche of Rome Marsilius Patauinus ye saie was an Heretique But what one Heresie he defended or before what Iudge he was conuicted or where he was either abtured or pounisshed for the same neither you nor any of al your Felowes haue hitherto tolde vs. Therefore wée muste thinke He vvas an Heretique vvithout Heresie as somme menne be Doctoures vvithout Diuinitie Ioachimus Abbas founde faulte with the Bishop of Rome And therefore he muste néedes be an Heretique As for that he is charged in the Popes Decretalles with erroure touchinge the Trinitie it is a greate Vntruthe as ye maie clearely perceiue by a Booke that Martin Luther hath pourposely written in his Defence But to comme neare the matter and to speake of the thinge that moste misliketh you S. Iohn saith Antichriste shal fitte in a Cittie builte vpon seuen Hilles and so is the Cittie of Rome Irenaeus saith The number of Antichristes Name shal be expressed by this woorde Latinus Sibylla saith The greateste terroure and furie of his Empiere and the greateste woe that he shal woorke shal be by the bankes of Tyber Whiche circumstances séeme plainely to painte out the Cittie of Rome S. Hierome saithe Antichristus fedebit in Templo Dei vel Hierosolymi vt quidam putant vel in Ecclesia vt veriùs arbitramur Antichriste shal fit in the Temple of God either at Hierusalem as somme thinke or els in the Churche of God it selfe vvhiche vvee take to be the truer meaninge S. Gregorie saithe Ego fidenter dico quo'd quisquis se Vniuersalem Sacerdotem vocat vel vocari defiderat in elatione
Arke of Noe. The Heretique Dioscorus to geate somme credite to his Doctrine woulde séeme to bringe the descente thereof from al the Ancient Fathers of the Churche For thus he saide in the open Councel Ego testimonia habeo Sanctorum Patrum Athanasij Gregorij Cyrilli in multis locis Ego cum Patribus eijcior Ego defendo Patrum Dogmata Non trāsgredior in aliquo Et horum Testimonia non simpliciter neque transitoriè sed in Libris habeo I haue the witnesse of the Holy Fathers Athanasius Gregorius cyrillus in many places I am throwen foorth with the Fathers I defende the Fathers Doctrine I swarue not frō thē in any pointe I haue theire witnesse not barely nor by the waie but in theire Bookes So saide the Heretique Eutyches Ego legi Scripta Beati Cyrilli Sanctorum Patrum Sancti Athanasij I haue readde the Bookes of Cyrillus of the Holy Fathers and of Athanasius So saide the Heretique carosus Ego secundum expositionem trecentorum decem octo Patrum sic Credo sic Baptizatus sum Thus doo I beleue and thus was I Baptized according to the Exposition of the three hundred and eighteene Fathers in the Councel of Nice Thus y◠Arian Heretiques alleged the Authoritie of y◠Ancient Father Origen thus the Pelagian Heretiques alleged the Authoritie of S. Augustine As vpon occasion it hath benne saide before Euen with sutche truthe M. Hardinge are you woonte to blase the Armes of your Religion There is no toie so vaine or so fabulous but ye are hable by your conninge to bring it lineally either from Christe him selfe or from his Apostles or from one or other of the Ancient Fathers The Bishop of Sidon in y◠Late diete of the Empiere holden at Augusta auouched openly that ye had your whole Canon from the Apostles of Christe woord by woord euen as it is péeuishely written in your Masse Bookes Andreas Barbatius proueth the Antiquitie of y◠Cardinalles of Rome by these woordes written in the firste Booke of the Kinges Domini sunt Cardines Terrae Et posuit super eos Orbem The Corners of the Earth be the Lordes and vpon them he hath sette the world Abbate Panormitane saithe Cardinalatus est de Iure Diuino Quia Papa per Sacerdotes Leuiticos intelligit Cardinales The Cardinalship standeth by the Law of God For the Pope by the Leuitical Priestes vnderstandeth his Cardinalles Hosius séemeth to saie that Monkes haue theire beginning euen from the Apostles meaninge thereby as one of your Companions there doothe in fauoure I trowe of Religion that Christe him selfe vvas the Abbat For thus he saith Christus Dux exemplar vitae Monasticae Christe was the Captaine and samplar of Monkes life And yet the same man afterwarde as hauinge forgotten his former dreame vtterly displaceth Christe geueth the whole honoure hereof vnto Elias Elizaeus These be his woordes Elias Elizaeus Duces instituti Benedictini Elias and Elizaeus were y◠Captaines of S. Benettes order y◠is to saie thei were Blacke Monkes By like wisedome ye would séeme to fetche your Holy Water from S. Augustine This was sommetime a ioily good waie to winne credite specially whiles what so euer ye said y◠people was ready to geue you care So y◠olde Arcades saide in commendation of theire Antiquitie y◠thei were a daie or twoo elder then the Moone Saturnus beinge in Italie for y◠he was a stranger no man knew frō whēce he came therefore was called Filius Caeli was thought to come frō Heauen Romulus Alexander for that thei were borne in bastardie neuer knewe theire owne Fathers therefore to magnifie the nobilitie of theire bloude woulde be called the Children of the Goddes the one of Mars y◠other of Iuppitter With sutche Truthe and Fidelitie M. Hardinge your woonte is to painte out al the partes and members of your Doctrine For be it neuer so vaine or childishe or lately diuised yet ye beare vs in hande that your Predecessours receiued the same as you saie of theire Bishoppes and they of others theire Predecessours by order vntil they reache to your Augustine the Monke of Rome whom ye haue ful woorthily made a Sainte your Augustine yée saie receiued the same of Gregorie Gregorie of others before him and they al one of an other by continual ascente vnto S. Peter and Peter of Christe and Christe of God his Father No Heralde coulde lightly haue saide more in the mater I trowe ye woulde proue by this Ascente and Descente that God the Father made Holy VVater and said Masse In deede as wel herein as also in your emptie names of Augustine Hierome Chrysostome Ambrose Basile Cyprian Dionyse c. as I tolde you once before ye bringe vs onely a vaine shewe of painted boxes and nothinge in them For in al these Holy Fathers where finde you either your Priuate Masse or your halfe communion or your Accidentes without Subiecte or the reste of your like Vanities wherewith ye haue so longe time deceiued the worlde Leaue your dissimulation set aparte your Confectures and blinde gheasses and for your credites sake once shewe vs these thinges in the Ancient Holy Fathers and shew them plainely and in déede that wée maie thinke there is somme weight in your woorde But your owne Glose speakinge of the Ministration of the Holy Communion whiche now in your Churches in a manner is wholy abolisshed saith thus Hoc Antiquum est Nam hodiè videtur esse relictum This was the Olde order For as it seemeth nowe it is leafte Doctoure Tonstal saithe It was no Heresie to denie your Transubstantiation before your late Councel of Laterane Erasmus whoe 's iudgement I thinke ye wil not refuse saith thus In Synaxi Transubstantiationēe ser ò definiuit Ecclesia In the Holy Ministration it was longe ere the Churche determined the Article of Transubstantiation Al this notwithstandinge M. Hardinge ye blusshe not to saie that bothe these and al other your fantasies haue benne conueighed vnto you by moste certaine Succession from hand to hand from your Englishe Augustine from Gregorie from the Fathers from the Apostles from Christe and from the bosome of God him selfe The Apologie Cap. 1. Diuision 3. But howe if the thinges whiche these menne are so desirous to haue seeme Newe be founde of greatest Antiquitie Contrariwise howe if al the thinges wel nighe whiche they so greatly set out with the name of Antiquitie hauinge benne wel and throughly examined be at length found to be but Newe diuised of very late Soothely to saie no man that hath a true and right consideration woulde thinke the Iewes Lawes and Ceremonies to be Newe in deede for al Hammans accusation For they were grauen in very Aunciente Cables of greatest Antiquitie And although many did take Christe to haue swarued from Abraham and the Olde Fathers and to haue brought in a certaine Newe Religion in his owne name yet
Ecclesijs The Bookes of the Olde Testament which are called the stories of the Iewes were deliuered by the Apostles to be readde in the Churches Dionysius saithe Deinde ordine habetur Sacrorum Librorum Lectio After warde folowe in order the Lessons of the Holy Bookes Iustinus Martyr saithe Die Solis omnes qui in oppidis vel in agris morantur vnum in locum conueniunt Commentariaque Apostolorum vel Prophetarum Scripta leguntur Deinde is qui praeest admone◠omnes horratur vt ea quae Lecta sunt bona imitentur Deinde surgimus omnes comprecamur Vpon the Sondaie the Christian people that dwel in towne or Countrie meete togeather in one place There the Epistles of the Apostles or the prophetes Writinges are pronounced vnto vs. Afterward he that is the Chiefe or Minister warneth and exhorteth al the reste that they wil folowe those good thinges that they haue hearde readden That donne wee rise vp al and praie togeather S Cyprian saithe Lector personat Verba sublimia Euangelium Christi legit A Fratribus conspicitur cum gaudio Fraternitatis auditur The Reader soundeth out the high and Heauenly Woordes he readeth out the Gospel of Christe He is seene of the Brethren he is hearde with ioie of al the Brotherhoode The Fathers in the Councel of Constantinople saie thus Tempore Diptychorum cucurrit omnis multitudo cum magno silentio circum circa Altare audiebant At the time of Readinge of the Chapter al the multitude of the people with greate silence drewe runde about the Anltare or Communion Table and gaue eare In the Councel of Laodicea it is written thus In Sabbatis Euangelia cum alijs Scripturis legi conuenit Vpon the Sabboth daie it is conuenient that the Gospelles and other Scriptures be readde in the Churche vnto the people Leo saith Solennitati Sacratissimae Lectionis subiungatur exhortatio Sacerdotis After the solemne Readinge of the moste Holy Lesson let there folowe the Sermon or Exhortation of the Prieste S. Chrysostome saithe Sta◠Minister Communis Minister alta voce clamat Post illam vocem Lector incipit Prophetiam Esaiae The Minister and Common Minister standeth vp and crieth out with lowde voice saieinge keepe silence and geeue eare After that the Reader beginneth the Prophesie of Esaie S. Ambrose saith Non possum ego à me facere quicquam sicut audio iudico Audistis Lectum Ego non accuso vos Moses vos accusat Audistis Lectum Christe saithe I cannot doo any thinge of mee selfe As I heare so I iudge Yee haue hearde it readden I accuse you not It is Moses that accuseth you Yee haue hearde it readden S. Augustine saithe Audistis cùm Euangelium legeretur Modò cùm legeretur si intenti fuistis Lectioni Audistis Audiuimus in Lectione quae Lecta est Fratres dilectissimi Ye hearde when the Gospel was readde Ye hearde ere while when it was readde if ye gaue eare to the Readinge Deerely beloued wee haue hearde in the Lesson that hath benne readde Hereby I thinke it maie appeare that the Readinge of Lessons and Chapters is no Newe Diusse in the Churche of God And yet wil you tel vs M. Hardinge that al this is onely a Spiritual doumbenesse and an vnprofitable Hearkeninge brought in by the instincte of Sathan to promote his Kingedome Or if you dare so to tel vs muste wée beléeue you Verily Isidorus saith Lectio est non parua audientium aedificatio Vnde oporter vt quando Psallitur Psallatur ab omnibus quando Oratur Oretur ab omnibus quandò Lectio Legitur facto silentio aequè audiatur à cunctis The Lesson in the Church bringeth great profite to the hearers Therefore when Singing is let al Singe togeather when Praier is let al Praie togeather And vvhen the Lesson or Chapter is readde let silence be made and let al heare togeather Tertullian saith Coimus ad Literarum Diuinarum Commemorationem Fidem Sanctis Vocibus pascimus Spem erigimus Fiduciam figimus We comme togeather to the Readinge of the Holy Scriptures wee feede our Faithe with those Heauenly Voices wee raise vp our affiance wee fosten our hope Againe he saithe Vbi fomenta Fidei de Scripturarum Lectione Where is the feeding of Faithe that commeth by the open pronouncinge and Readinge of the Scriptures Origen saithe Non fuisset Necessarium Legi haec in Ecclesia nisi ex his aedificatio aliqua audientibus praeberetur It had not benne Necessarie to haue these thinges readde in the Churche onlesse thereof might growe somme profite to the hearers Leo saith Sacram Dominicae Passionis Historiam Euangelica vt moris est narratione decursam ita omnium vestrum arbitror inhaesisse pectoribus vt vnicuique audientium ipsa Lectio quaedam facta sit vitio I thinke that the Holy storie of our Lordes Passion whiche wee as the manner is haue readde vnto you is so fastened vnto al your hartes that the very hearinge it selfe vnto euery of the Hearers is a kinde of seeinge Chrysostome saith The manner was that before euery sutche Lesson or Chapter the Minister should saie vnto the people with a loude voice Attendamus Let vs Marke S. Augustine saith Epistolae Apostolicae non tantùm illis Scriptae sunt qui tempore illo quo scribebantur audiebant sed etiam nobis Non enim ob aliud in Ecclesia recitantur The Apostles Epistles were not written onely to them that hearde them at the same time when they were written but also to vs. For to none other pourpose they are readde openly in the Churche This therefore is no Spiritual Doumbenesse M. Hardinge This is no vnprofitable Hearkeninge This is no Instincte or VVoorke of Sathan S. Augustine saithe Vide Formicam Dei Surgit quotidiè Currit ad Ecclesiam Dei Orat Audit Lectionem Hymnum cantat ruminat quod audit Apud se cogitat recondit intùs grana electa de area Beholde Goddes Emote Shee riseth daily Shee renneth to the Churche of God shee Praieth Shee heareth the Lesson or Chapter Shee fingeth the Psalme Shee cheweth or remembreth that shee hathe hearde Shee museth vpon it within her selfe And within shee laieth vp the Cornes chosen from the floore But your Churches M. Hardinge are ful not onely of Spiritual but also of Corporal and horrible doumbenesse Of al that is saide or donne there the poor Godly People knoweth nothinge S. Augustine saithe Si intellectum mentis remoueas nemo aedificatur audiendo quod non intelligit If yee remoue the vnderstandinge of the minde no man is edified or taketh profite by hearinge that he cannot vnderstande Chrysostome saithe Perdiderunt audiendi laborem tempus Nam qui non intelligit quod audit perdit quod audit They haue loste bothe theire laboure in hearinge and also the time For he that vnderstandeth not
the more encrease Notwithstandinge it is noted by the Learned of your owne side that these Epistles bitweene the Emperoure the Pope in the Oldest Allovved Bookes are not founde and therefore are suspected to sauoure of somme Romaine forgerie Hereby it is easy to vnderstande that vntil the time of the Emperoure Iustinian which was welneare six hundred yeeres after Christe the Bishoppes of the Easte Churche were not subiecte to the Bishop of Rome and that for so longe time the Pope was not yet knowen for the Heade of the Vniuersal Churche of God One of your owne Allowed Doctours saithe thus Dicere quo'd Princeps non potest facere Leges vel eis vti quousque fuerint approbatae per Papam falsum est To saie that the Prince cannot either make or vse his Lawes before the Pope haue allowed them it is plainely false Abbate Panormitane to qualifie the mater saithe thus Lex Principis Praeiudicialis Ecclesijs non extenditur ad Ecclesias nisi expressè approbetur per Papam Sed si fauet Ecclesijs intelligitur approbata nisi expressè reprobetur The Princes Lawe if it be Preiudicial or hurteful to the Churche is not extended vnto the Churche onlesse it be expressely allowed by the Pope But if it be profitable for the Churche wee muste thinke it is allowed onlesse it be expressely disallowed But here M. Hardinge this one thinge yee maie note by the waie that notwithstandinge you cannot finde by any shifte or coloure whereof ye lacke no stoare that the Pope hath Authoritie to allovve the Emperours Lavves yet of the other side wee are hable readily to finde that the Emperoure hath Authoritie to allovve the Popes Lavves For so the Emperoure Iustinian him selfe saithe A praecedentibus nos Imperatoribus à nobis ipsis rectè dictum est Oportere Sacras Regulas pro Legibus valere It is wel saide bothe by other Emperours our Predecessours and also by vs that the Holy Canons muste be holden for Lawes Likewise saithe Pope Honorius 3. Imperator Iustinianus decreuit vt Canones Patrum vim Legum habere oporteat The Emperoure Iustinian hath decreed that the Canons of the Fathers shal haue the force of Lawes But what can be so plaine as that Iustinian hereof writeth him selfe These be his woordes Nisi intra praescriptum tempus ad Ecclesias suas redeant deponantur alij in illorum locum surrogentur idque Authoritate vi huius Praesentis Legis Onlesse Bishoppes and Priestes repaire againe vnto their Churches by a daie appointed let them be depriued from their liuinges and let others be placed in their roumes not by the Authoritie of the Pope but by the force and Authoritie of this Presente Lavve So saithe S. Augustine Reges in Terris seruiunt Christo faciendo Leges pro Christo Kinges in the worlde serue Christe in that they make Lawes for Christe Likewise saithe Iustinian Legum Authoritas Diuinas Humanas res bene disponit By the Authoritie of the Emperours Lawes bothe Heauenly and worldly thinges are wel ordered And againe Nullum genus rerum est quod non sit penitùs quaerendum Authoritate Imperatoris Is enim recipit à Deo communem gubernationem Principalitatem super omnes homines There is no kinde of thinge but it maie be thorowly examined by the Authoritie of the Emperoure For he receiueth from God a General Gouernemente and Principalitie ouer al menne that is as wel of the Cleregie eas of the Laitie So saithe Paulus the Bishop of Apamea vnto the same Emperoure Iustinian vpon the deathe of Agapetus the Bishop of Rome Transtulit ipsum Dominus vt Plenitudinem directionis Vestrae custodiret Serenitati Our Lorde hath taken the Pope awaie that he mighte reserue the whole fâ—lnesse of order vnto your Maiestie Touchinge the Depriuation of the twoo Popes Syluerius and Vigilius yee saie It was donne onely by Theodora the Empresse and not by the Emperoure Iustinian and therein yee thinke yée haue taken vs in somme greate aduantage Notwithstandinge in your owne Pontifical it is written thus Belisarium interrogauit Imperator quomodò se haberet cum Romanis vel quomodò in loco Syluerij statuisset Vigilium Tunc gratias ei egerunt Imperator Augusta The Emperoure demaunded of his Captaine Belisarius howe he had donne with the Romaines and howe he had deposed Pope Syluerius and placed Vigilius in his steede Vpon his answeare bothe the Emperoure and the Empresse gaue him thankes Nowe yee knowe it is a Rule in Lavve Ratihabitio retrotrahitur mandato comparatur The Allovvance of a thinge donne is as good as a Commission for the dooinge Somme of your Frendes haue saide Totus Mundus non potest Deponere aut Iudicare Papam The whole worlde cannot Depose or Iudge the Pope Yet Eutropius saithe Si quando Imperialis Legatus mitteretur à Principe vt Romanus Pontifex proficisceretur Constantinopolim ad Imperatorem omni neglecta occasione ibat etiamsi pro certo sciret se iturum in exilium If the Emperours Embassadoure had coÌ„maunded the Bishop of Rome to appeare at Constantinople before the Emperoure he wente streight waie without excuse Yea although he certainely knevve that he shoulde be bannished Here I leaue sundrie Examples of Emperours that by their Authoritie haue Deposed not onely other Bishoppes but also Popes As the Example of Honorius that Deposed Pope Bonifacius Of Theodoricus that Deposed Pope Symmachus Of Otho that Deposed Pope Iohn 12 Of Henrie that Deposed Pope Benedictus 9. and that as it is recorded not by wilful might or Tyrannie but Imperiali Canonica Censura By his Emperial and by the Canonical Censures Yea one of your owne Frendes saith thus Populus commendabiliter Zelo Fidei commotus Constantinum Papam qui erat Ecclesiae in scandalum priuauit oculis Deposuit The people of Rome moued with the Zele of Faithe tooke Pope Constantine and pulled out his eies and Deposed him for that he was sclaunderous vnto the Churche and they deserued greate Praise for the same How be it yée saie these twoo Popes Syluerius and Vigilius were Good Menne and Godly Fathers and therefore the remouinge of them was Violence and Tyrannie And hereto yee apply the vnsauerie Similitude of your Homely Puddinges Notwithstandinge what Vertue or Holinesse was in either of these menne it maie soone appeare by the storie Pope Syluerius was chosen Pope by Corruption and Simonie contrarie to the wil of the Cleregie Pope Vigilius accused him of Treason for that he woulde haue betraied the Cittie of Rome to the Gotthians As for Pope Vigilius youre Pontifical saithe He was a False Witnesse againste his Predecessoure Pope Syluerius He sought vndewe meanes to remoue him and to place him selfe He keapte him in Prison and sterued him for hunger He gaue a greate somme of monie to procure the Popedome to him selfe He killed
A Defence of the Apologie of the Churche of Englande Conteininge an Answeare to a certaine Booke lately set foorthe by M. Hardinge and Entituled A Confutation of c. By Iohn Iewel Bishop of Sarisburie 3. ESDRAE 4. Magna est Veritas praeualet Greate is the Truthe and preuaileth ET INVENTA EST PERIIT Jmprinted at London in Fleetestreate at the signe of the Elephante by Henry VVykes Anno 1567. 27. Octobris Cum Gratia Priuilegio Regiae Maiestatis TO THE MOSTE VERTVOVS and Noble Princesse Queene Elizabeth by the Grace of God Queene of Englande France and Irelande Defender of the Faithe c. IT had benne greatly to be wished moste Gracious Soueraine Lady that as God of his mercie hath geeuen vs euer sithence the first time of your Maiesties moste happy gouernmente sutche successe in al ciuile affaires sutche concorde and quietnesse in al Estates as our Fathers seldome haue seene before so our hartes with like felicitie mighte thorowly haue consented in the profession of one vndoubted Truthe and al our willes whiche now are so violently rente a sunder and so farre distracted mighte fully haue ioined togeather in the VVil of God that al quarrelles and contentions set aparte wee might with one mouthe and one minde glorifie God the Father of our Lorde Iesus Christe How be it it appeareth by the continual storie and whole discourse of the Holy Scriptures that Almighty God of his deepe Iudgements and secrete Prouidence suffreth some menne oftetimes to delite in darkenesse to withstande the Gospel to seeke occasions and wilfully to sette them selues againste the knowledge and Truthe of God I write not this Moste Gracious Lady to thintente to make them odious in your Maiesties sighte that this daie are the procurers of al these troubles God is hable euen of the harde vnsensible stones to raise vp children vnto Abraham and to make them the vessels of his Mercie Neuerthelesse as S. Paule teacheth vs sutche menne there haue benne in times paste that haue had their Consciences burnte with hote irons speakinge and maineteininge Lies in Hypocrisie that haue geeuen them selues ouer into reprobate and wilful mindes and haue despised the VVisedome of God within them selues And notwithstandinge sutche battailes and dissensions specially in the Churche of God whiche is called the House of Vnitie be offensiue and greeuous vnto the Godly and therefore woorke greate hinderance vnto the dewe passage of the Gospel of Christe yet in the ende the trouble hereof in Goddes Electe is recompensed abundantely with greate aduantage For Goddes Truthe is mighty and shal preuaile Dagon shal falle downe headlonge before the Arke the Darkenesse shal flee before the Lighte and the more fiercely mannes wisedome shal withstande the more glorious shal God be in his Victorie But shortely to discourse vnto your Maiestie the particulare occasions hereof from the beginninge after it had pleased Almighty God at the firste entire of your Maiesties Reigne by a moste happy exchange and by the meanes of your Maiesties moste Godly trauailes to restoare vnto vs the Lighte and comforte of his Gospel there was written and published by vs a Litle Booke in the Latine tongue entitled An Apologie of the Churche of Englande conteininge the whole Substance of the Catholique Faithe no we professed and freely preached throughoute al your Maiesties Dominions that thereby al foreine Nations might vnderstande the considerations and causes of your Maiesties dooinges in that behalfe Thus in olde times did Quadratus Melito Iustinus Martyr Tertullian and other Godly and Learned Fathers vpon like occasions as wel to make knowen the Truthe of God and to open the groundes of their Profession as also to put the Infidels to silence and to stoppe the mouthes of the wicked This Apologie beinge thus written firste in Latine and afterwarde vpon the comfortable reporte of your Maiesties moste Godly enterprises translated into sundrie other tongues and so made common to the moste parte of al Europe as it hath benne wel allowed of and liked of the Learned and Godly as it is plaine by their open testimonies touchinge the same so hath it not hitherto for ought that maie appeare benne anywhere openly reproued either in Latine or otherwise either by any one mannes Priuate writinge or by the Publique Authoritie of any Nation Onely one M. Hardinge not longe sithence your Maiesties subiecte nowe mislikinge the presente state and resiante in Louaine hath of late taken vpon him againste the saide Apologie with the whole Doctrine and al the partes of the same to publishe an open Confutation and to offer the same vnto your Maiestie wherin he sheweth him selfe so vehemente and so sharpe and busie in findinge faultes that he doubteth not to seeke quarrelles againste vs euen in that wee maineteine the Baptisme of Christian Infantes the proceeding and Godhedde of the Holy Ghoste the Faithe of the Holy and Glorious Trinitie and the General and Catholique Profession of the common Creede Thus for that he hath once seuered him selfe from vs he beareth nowe the worlde in hande wee can beleeue nothinge without an erroure The maigne grounde of his whole plea is this That the Bishop of Rome what so euer it shal like him to Determine in Iudgemente can neuer erre that he is alwaies vndoubtedly possessed of Goddes Holy Sprite that at his onely hande wee muste learne to knowe the VVil of God that in his onely Holinesse standeth the Vnitie and safetie of the Churche that who so euer is diuided from him muste by iudged an Heretique and that without the obedience of him there is no hope of Saluation And yet as though it were not sufficiente for him so vainely to soothe a man in open Erroures he telleth vs also sadly and in good earnest that the same Bishop is not onely a Bishop but also a Kinge that vnto him belongeth the Authoritie and righte of bothe Swerdes as wel Temporal as Spiritual that al Kinges and Emperours receiue their whole power at his hande and ought to sweare obedience and Fealtie vnto him For these be his woordes euen in this Booke so boldely dedicate vnto your Maiestie It is a greate eie soare saithe M. Hardinge to the Ministers of Antichriste to see the Vicare of Christe aboue Lordes and Kinges of this vvorlde and to see Princes and Emperours promise and svveare obedience vnto him And whereas Pope Zacharie by the consente or conspiracie of the Nobles of France deposed Chilperichus the true natural and liege Prince of that Realme and placed Pipinus in his roume Loe saithe M. Hardinge yee must needes confesse that this vvas a Diuine povver in the Pope for othervvise he coulde neuer haue donne it Thus mutche he esteemeth the dishonoures and ouerthrowes of Goddes Anointed VVhereas also Pope Boniface the Eighth for that he coulde not haue the Treasurie of France at his commaundement endeuoured with al his bothe Ecclesiastical and VVorldly puissance to remoue
Philip the French Kinge from his estate and vnder his Bulles or Letters Patentes had conueighed the same solemnely vnto Albertus the Kinge of Romaines M. Hardinge here telleth your Maiestie that al this was very wel donne to thintente thereby to fraie the Kinge and to keepe him in avve and to reclaime his minde from disobedience Now touchinge your Maiesties moste Noble Progenitours the Kinges of this Realme whereas wee as oure loialtie and allegiance bindeth vs iustely complaine that Pope Alexander 3. by violence and tyrannie forced Kinge Henrie the Seconde to surrender his Crowne Emperial into the handes of his Legate and afterwarde for a certaine space to contente him selfe in Priuate estate to the greate indignation and griefe of his louinge Subiectes And that likewise Pope Innocentius the thirde sturred vp the Nobles and Commons of this Realme against kinge Iohn and gaue the Enheritance and Possession of al his Dominions vnto Ludouicus the Frenche Kinge as for the misusinge of your Maiesties moste deere Father of moste Noble Memorie kinge Henrie the Eighth for as mutche as the smarte thereof is yet in freshe remembrance I wil saie nothinge To these and al other like Tyrannical iniuries and iuste causes of griefe M. Hardinge shortely and in lighte manner thinketh it sufficiente to answeare thus VVhat though Kinge Henrie the Seconde vvere il entreated of Pope Alexander 3 VVhat though Kinge Iohn vvere il entreated of that Zelous and Learned Pope Innocentius 3 VVhat though Kinge Henrie the Eighth vvere likevvise entreated of the Popes in our time If know right wel Moste Souer aine Lady the goodnesse of your Graceous Nature deliteth not in sutche rehearsalles Neither doo I make reporte hereof for that sutche thinges sommetimes haue benne donne but for that the same thinges euen nowe at this time either so lightely are excused or so boldely are defended Sutche humble affection and obedience these menne by their open and publique VVritinges teache your Maiesties true Subiectes to beare towardes their Natural Prince It shal mutche warrante the honoure and safetie of your Roial Estate if your Maiestie shal sommetimes remember the dishonours and dangers that other your Noble Progenitours haue felte before you But concerninge the Maiestie and right of Kinges and Emperours M. Hardinge telleth vs They haue their firste Authoritie by the Positiue Lavve of Nations and can haue nomore Povver then the people hath of vvhome they take their Temporal lurisdiction as if he woulde saie Emperours and Kinges haue none other righte of Gouernmente then it hath pleased theire Subiectes by composition to allowe vnto them Thus he saithe and saithe it boldely as if God him selfe had neuer saide Per me Reges Regnant By mee and my Authoritie Kinges beare rule ouer theire Subiectes Or as if Christe our Saueour had neuer saide vnto Pilate the Lorde Lieutenante Thou shouldest haue no Povver ouer mee vvere it not geeuen thee from aboue Or as if S. Paule had not saide Non est potestas nisi a Deo There is no povver but onely from God And yet further as if their whole studie were fully bente to deface the Authoritie and Maiestie of al Princes euen nowe one of the same companie doubteth not to teache the worlde That the Pope is the Heade and Kinges and Emperours are the feete Like as also an other of the same faction saithe The Emperoures Maiestie is so farre inferiour in dignitie to the Pope as a Creature is inferiour vnto God VVee diuise not these thinges of malice Moste Graceous Lady but reporte the same truely as wee finde them proclaimed and published this daie by theire vaine and dangerous writinges whiche notwithstandinge they woulde so faine haue to be taken as Catholique If this Doctrine maie once take roote and be freely receiued emongest the Subiectes it shal be harde for any Prince to holde his Righte As for your Maiestie for that it hath pleased Almighty God in his Mercie to make you an instrumente of his Glorie as in Olde times he made many other Godly and Noble Princes to refourme his Churche from that huge and lothesome heape of filthe and rubble that either b violence or by negligence had benne throwen into it therefore M. Hardinge euen in this selfe same Booke vnder certaine general threates chargeth you with disordred presumption by the example of Ozias the wicked Kinge vpon vvhom as he vntruely saithe God sente his vengeance for the like For be the Abuses and Errours of the Churche neuer so many be the falles and dangers neuer so greate be the Priestes and Bishoppes neuer so blinde yet by this Doctrine it maie neuer be lawful for the Prince be he neuer so learned or so wise or so Zelous in Goddes cause to attempte any manner of Reformation And therefore thus he saithe vnto your Maiestie and with al his skil and cunninge laboureth to perswade your Maiesties Subiectes if any one or other happily of simplicitie wil beleeue him that the Godly Lavves whiche your Maiestie hathe geeuen vs to liue vnder are no Lavves that your Parlamentes are no Parlamentes that your Cleregie is no Cleregie Our Sacramentes no Sacramentes Our Faithe no Faithe The Churche of Englande whereof your Maiestie is the moste Principal and Chiefe he calleth a Malignante Churche a Newe Churche erected by the Diuel a Babylonical Tower a Hearde of Antichriste a Temple of Lucifer a Synogoge and a Schoole of Sathan ful of Robberie Sacrilege Schisme and Heresie And al this he furnissheth with sutche libertie of other vncourteous and vnseemely talkes as if he had benne purposely hired to speake dishonour of your Maiesties most godly dooinges Of al these and other like Tragical fantasies for as mutche as he hathe so boldely aduentured to make a presente vnto your Maiestie wee haue great cause to reioise in God for that our controuersies are brought to be debated before sutche a personage as is hable so wel and so deepely to vnderstande them For I haue no doubte but as by your greate Learninge and marueilous VVisedome you shal soone see the difference of our Pleadinges so of your Maiesties graceous inclination vnto al Godlinesse you wil readily finde out the Falsehedde and geeue sentence with the Truthe Verily after that your Maiestie shal haue thorowly considered the manifest Vntruthes and corruptions togeather with the Abuses and Errours of the contrarie side the VVeakenesse of the Cause the Boldenesse of the Man and the immoderate Bitternesse of his speache I haue good hope the more aduisedly you shal beholde it the lesse cause you shal finde wherefore to like it For the discouerie hereof for my poore portion of Learninge I haue endeuoured to doo that I was hable And the same here I humbly presente vnto your Maiestie as vnto my most Graceous and Soueraine Liege Lady and as now the onely Nource and Mother of the Churche of God within these your Maiesties moste Noble Dominions It maie please your Maiestie graceously to weighe
he hath better remembred him selfe that the saide Oza was not a Kinge but onely a Prophete And yet yewis a childe could haue tolde him that the same Oza was neither King nor Prophete but onely a Leuite Let him looke better on his bookes and he shal finde it Howe be it I woulde not that either M. Hardinge or M. Dorman shoulde thinke that therefore they are here charged with ignorance Errours wil créepe bitwéene theire fingers be thei neuer so watcheful In the heate and drifte of writinge when the minde is wholy occupied and fully bente to the substance of the cause it is an easy mater by somme confusion one waie or other to disorder a woorde or to displace a number as to write either 9. for 6. or 24. for 42. or somme other like whiche errour though it be light in dooing yet in the reckeninge oftentimes is very greate To leaue other Examples M. Hardinge him selfe in his Confutation of the Apologie in stéede of the 22. of Luke hathe printed the 2. of Luke Likewise in his Reioinder in stéede of these woordes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he hath printed and sente vs quite the contrarie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 In one Booke of the Newe Testamente set out at Colaine in stéede of these woordes Neque Scortatores Regnum Dei possidebunt yée shal finde it by erroure printed thus Neque Sacerdotes Regnum Dei possidebunt To be shorte M. Hardinge in this selfe same Booke in stéede of these woordes Lulled a sleepe by erroure hath printed Lulled a sheepe If al sutche childishe aduantages shoulde be taken then coulde no writer escape vncontrolled Thus good Christian Reader by the shorte Viewe of these fewe Vntruthes for so it pleaseth these menne to calle them thou maiste the better weigh the value and substanceâ—â— of the 〈◊〉 Tedious Repetitions M. Hardinges often rehearsal and doubling of one thing hath forced mee sommetime to doo the like Whiche thing good Reader if vnto thee it shal séeme ouer wearisome I praie thee to consider the occasion thereof My meaninge was onely to doo thee good To the Christian Reader IT pitieth mee in thy behalfe good Christian Reader to sée they conscience thus assaulted this daie with so contrarie Doctrines of Religion and specially if thou haue a zele to folowe and séeste not what and wouldeste faine please Eod and knoweste not howe nor findeste thée selfe sufficiently armed with Goddes Holy Sprite nor hable either to discerue thy meate from poison or to vnwinde thée selfe out of the snares For Satan transfourmeth him selfe into an Angel of Light The wicked is more watcheful and vehemente then the Godly and Falsehed is oftentimes painted and vewtified and shineth more glorious then the Truthe These be the thinges that as S. Paule saithe woorke the subuersion of the Hearers and by meane whereof as Christe saithe if it were possible the very Bsecte of God shoulde be deceiued Howe be it God knoweth his owne and no Power can pusse them out of his hande God is hable to woorke comforte out of confusion and to force his light to shine out of darkenesse Al thinges woorke vnto good vnto them that be in Christe Iesu Be Falsehed neuer so freashely coloured yet in the ende the Truthe wil conquere Notwithstandinge God in these daies hath so amazed the Aduersaries of his Gospel and hath caused them so openly and so grossely to laie abroade their folies to the sight and face of al the world that noman nowe be he neuer so ignorante can thinke he maie iustely be excused They deale not nowe so suttelly as other Heretiques in old times were woont to doo thei hide not the lothsomenesse of their errours they cloke not them selues in Shéepeskinnes they dissemble nothinge they excuse nothing but without either shame of man or feare of God they rake vp those thinges that before were buried that themselues had forsaken the wise had abhorred the worlde had lothed It had benne more policie for them to haue yeelded in sommewhat and to haue staied in the reste So there might haue appeared somme plainenesie in theire dealinges But this is Goddes iuste iudgemente that they that wilfully withstande the Truthe shoulde be geeuen ouer to mainteine Lies as beeinge the Children of Vntruthe Children that wil not heare the Lawe of God For trial whereof I beseeche thée good Reader aduisedly to peruse these fewe notes truely taken out of M. Hardinges late Confutation Iudge thereof as thou shalt sée cause Let no affection or fantasie cause thinges to séeme otherwise then they be The twoo principal GrouÌ„des of this whole Booke are these First That the Pope although he maie erre by personal errour in his owne Priuate Iudgement as a man and as a particulare Doctour in his owne opinion yet as he is Pope as he is the Successour of Peter as he is the Vicare of Christe in Earthe and as he is the Shepheard of the Vniuersal Churche in Publique Judgement in deliberation and Definitiue Sentence he neuer erreth nor neuer erred nor neuer can erre As if he woulde saie The Pope walkinge in his Galerie is one man and fittinge in Consistorie or in Iudgemente is an other Whiche thinge to holde Alphonsus de Castro saithe it is mere folie Yet is this M. Hardinges chiefest or rather as I might in manner saie his onely grounde The Seconde is this The Churche of Rome is the whole and onely Catholique Churche of God and who so euer is not obediente vnto the same muste be iudged an â—â—leretique These twoo groundes beinge once wel and surely laied he maie builde at pleasure what him listeth As for the Pope the better to countenance his estate he saithe that Peter receiued thee I beséeche thee to consider with what indifferente Iudgement M. Harding woulde haue thée to passe bitwéene vs. Firste he saithe What should wee seeke for Truthe Let vs onely beholde the custome of the Churche Againe What Argumentes what Assegations what shewe of disproufe so euer he bringe againste these thinges wee ought to make smal accoumpte thereof Againe I would blesse mee selfe from him as from the Minister of Satan and as from the Disciple of Antichriste and as from Goddes open and professed enimie Againe M. Iewelles Replie and other like Hereticol Bookes are vnlawful to be readde by order of the Churche without special licence and are vtterly forebidden to be readde or keapte vnder paine of Excommunication And againe As for the Replie none other waie wil serue but to throwe al into the fire Of the other side touching the VVoorde of God with most terrible woordes he fraieth thée from it and biddeth thee to consider of other thinges and to behold I knowe not what Yee prostitute the Scriptures he saith as Baudes doo their Harlottes to the Vngodly Vnlearned Rascal people Againe Prentises Light Personnes and the rifferaffe of the people And againe The Vnlearned people were keapte from the
Reading of the Scriptures by the special prouidence of God that pretious stoanes should not be throwen before Swine In sutche regarde these menne haue as wel the Holy Scriptures as also the People of God The scriptures they resemble to common Harlottes and the vileste creatures of the stewes The people of God they calle Vngodly Rascalles Rifferaffe and Filthy Svvine Thus he suffereth thée not to reade either my poore Booke whereof thou shouldest Iudge or the Holy VVoorde of God whereby thou mightest he hable to Iudge but onely biddeth thée to folowe him and to saie as he saithe and al is safe Thus firste he blindeth thine eies and then willeth thee to looke aboute and to condemne the thinge thou neuer kneweste So saithe S. Hierome Isti tantam sibi assumunt Authoritatem vt siue dextra doceant siue sinistra id est siue bona siue mala nolint Discipulos ratione discutere sed se praecessores sequi These menne take so mutche vpon them selues that whether they teache with the Right hande or with the Lefte that is to saie whether they teache good thinges or badde they wil not haue theire Hearers or Learners to enquire causes wherefore they shoulde doo this or that but onely to folowe them beeing theire Leaders But beware I beséeche thée good Christian Reader A simple eie is soone beguiled It is very course Woolle that wil take no coloure It is a desperate cause that with woordes and eloquence maie not be smoothed Be not deceiued Remember of what maters and with what Aduersaries thou haste to deale With feace and reuerence be careful of thine owne Saluation Laie downe al affection and fauoure of parties Iudge iustely of that shal be alleged Onlesse thou knowe thou canste not Iudge Onlesse thou heare bothe sides thou canste not knowe If thou like ought knowe why thou likeste it A wise man in eche thinge wil searche the cause He that cannot iudge golde by sounde or insight yet maie trie it by the poise If thou canste not weigh these maters for want of Learninge yet so sensible and so grosse they are thou maiste féele them with thy fingers Thou maiste soone finde a difference bitwéene Golde and Brasse bitweene Iacob and Esau bitwéene a Face and a Visarde bitweene a fuile Body and an emptie Shadowe Saie not Thou arte settled in thy Beliefe before thou know it Vaine Faith is no Faithe S. Augustines counsel is good Beleeu nomore of Christe then Christ hath willed thee to beleeue Nemo de Christo credat nisi quod de se credi voluit Christus Likewise he saithe Fides stulta non prodest sed obest Fonde Faith is hurtful and dooth no good S. Hilarie saithe Non minus est Deum fingere quà m negare To diuise fansies of God it is as horrible as to saie There is no God The Anciente Father Tertullian speakinge of the Enimies of the Crosse of Christe that disdeigned to submitte theire willes to the wil of God saithe thus Amant ignorare cùm alij gaudeant cognouisse Malunt nescire quod iam oderunt Adeo ' quod nesciunt praeiudicant id esse quod si scirent odisse non possent They desire to be ignorante whereas other folkes desire to knowe They woulde not knowe the Truthe bicause they hate it What so euer it be they imagine it to be the same thinge that they hate But if they knewe it in deede thei coulde not hate it Let Reason leade thee let Authoritie moue thée let Truthe enforce thée The VViseman saithe Who so feareth the Lorde wil not be wilful againste his Woorde God of his mercie confounde al Errours géeue the Victorie to his Truthe and Glorie to his Holy name Amen From London 27. Octobris 1567. ⧠AN ANSWEARE TO A CERtaine Booke lately set foorth by M. Hardinge and entituled A Confutation of the Apologie of the Churche of Englande The Title of the Apologie AN Apologie or answeare in defence of the Churche of Englande with a briefe and plaine declaration of the true Religion professed and vsed in the same The Confutation by M. Hardinge Whereas these defenders take vpon them the name of the Churche of Englande settinge forth thereby a face of auctoritie they do muche like the Asse that Esope telleth of whiche to make the beastes afrayed had put on him a Lions skinne and therewith ietted abroade terribly For as the Lions skinne was but lapped about him and grewe not to his bodie so they beinge in deede no liuely members nor parte of the Churche couer them selues vnder the title and name of the Churche the rather to begyle the simple And verely herein they folowe the wonte of all Heretikes For neuer was there any secte of Heretikes hitherto whiche hath not claimed to be accōpted and called the Church For whiche cause of certaine auncient Fathers they haue bene likened to Apes whose propertie is though they be Apes yet to counterfeit men and to court to seeme men Nouatianus at saithe S. Cyprian after the manner of Apes woulde chalenge to him selfe the auctoritie of the Catholike Churche And where as himselfe was not in the Churche but contrariwise a rebell against the Churche tooke vpon him to affirme that al other were Heretikes and presumed tovpholde the Churche was on his side Irenaeus and Tertullian who were before him write that Heretikes made so much adoo to perswade that the Churche was amonge them selues onely that they feared not to call the right beleuinge and Catholike Churche Hereticall and Schismaticall S. Hilary declaringe how patiently he demeaned himselfe towardes the Arians his enemies by whome he was bannisshed writeth that in fiue yeares space whiles he liued in bannishment he neuer spake nor wrote euill woorde against them whiche falsely said them selues to be the Churche of Christe and were the Synagoge of Antichrist The Donatisles against whome S. Augustine wrote muche saide that the Christianitie was quite loste and gone out of so many nations that be in the worlde and remained onely in Aphrike and that the Churche was onely there In S. Bernardes time also the Heretikes who would be called Apostolikes as they of our time call themselues Gospellers saide that they were the Churche But what meane all Heretikes maye we iudge by couetinge so muche to be seene that whiche they are not Forsooth they meane none other thinge then their Father the Deuill meaneth when he goeth about to begile man For then what dothe he vseth he not this policie to chaunge his owggly hewe and put himselfe in goodly shape of an Angell of light For he is not vnwittinge that if he shewed himselfe in his owne forme suche as he is that euery one woulde flie from him and none lightly woulde be deceiued by him Heretikes doo the like Although they hate the Churche neuer so deadly yet to haue the more oportunitie to hurte it pretende themselues
The Piller and buttresse of the Churche is the Gospel and the Sprite of life S. Augustine saithe Sunt certi Libri Dominici quorum authoritari vtrique consentimus Ibi quaeramus Ecclesiam ibi discutiamus causam nostram There be certaine Bookes of our Lorde vnto the authoritie whereof eche parte agreethe There let vs seeke for the Churche thereby sette vs examine and trie our maters And againe Nolo humanis documentis sed Diuinis oraculis sanctam Ecclesiam demōstrari I wil ye shewe me the holy Churche not by decrees of menne but by the woorde of God Likewise saithe Chrysostome Nullo modo cognoscitur quae sit vera Ecclesia Christi nisi tantummodo ' per Scripturas It can no waye be knowen what is the Churche but onely by the Scriptures And againe Christus mandat vt volentes firmitatem accipere Verae Fidei ad nullam rem fugiant nisi ad Scripturas Alioqui si ad alia respexerint Scandalizabuntur peribunt non intelligentes quae sit vera Ecclesia Et per hoc incident in Abominationē Desolationis quae stat in Locis Sanctis Ecclesiae Christe commaundeth that who so wil haue the assurance of True Faithe seeke to nothinge els but vnto the Scriptures Otherwise if they looke to any thinge els they shal be offended and shal perishe not vnderstanding whiche is the True Churche And by meane here of they shal fal into the Abomination of Desolation whiche standeth in the Holy Places of the Churche By these Ancient learned Fathers it is plaine that the Churche of God is knowen by Godde◠Woorde onely none otherwise And therfore M. Hardinge you so carefully flée the same and condemne it for Heresie and often burne it leste thereby the deformities of youre Churche should be knowen For the il dooer fleeth the light Nowe where as it so wel liketh M. Hardinge to cal vs al Heretiques and for his pleasures sake to liken vs to Apes to Asses and to the Diuel notwithstanding we might safely returne the same whole from whence it came yet I thinke it not séemely nor greatly to purpose to answeare al suche intemperate humours Salomons aduise is good Answeare not folie with like folie Notwithstandinge the poore simple Asse vnto whome wée are compared was hable sometime to sée the Angel of God and to open his mouthe and to speake and to reproue the lewde attempte of Balaam the false Prophete What so euer accoumpt it pleaseth M. Hardinge to make of vs by the grace of God wée are that wée are Yf wée be hable to beare Christe with his Crosse it is sufficient But who they be that haue of longe time ietted so terribly vnder the Lions skinne and onely with a painted Visarde or emptie name of the Churche haue feared al the cattel of the fielde it is néedelesse to speake it the worlde now seeth it it can no longer be dissembled Euen he that lately bare him selfe as the Lion of the tribe of Iuda called him selfe Kinge of Kinges and said he had power ouer the Angels of God and amased the hartes of the simple with the terrour of his Lions pelte onely for that he sate in Peters Chaire is now reuefled and better knowen and estéemed as he is woorthy he may nowe iette vp and downe with more ease and lesse terrour And why so These poore Asses whome M. Hardinge so muche disdeigneth haue stripte of his counterfeite skinne that made him so hardy and haue caused him to appeare euen as he is The Apologie Cap. 1. Diuision 1. It hath bene an olde complainte euen from the first time of the Patriarkes and Prophetes and confirmed by the writinges and testimonies of euery age that the Truthe wandereth here and there as a straunger in the worlde dothe readily finde enimies and sclaunderers amongst those that knowe her not Albeit perchaunce this may seeme vnto some a thinge harde to be beleeued I meane to suche as haue scante wel and narowly taken heede thereunto specially seing al mankinde of natures very motion without a teacher doth coueite the Truthe of their owne accorde and seinge our Saueour Christe him self when he was on earth would be called the Truthe as by a name moste fitte to expresse al his diuine power Yet we whiche haue bene exercised in the holy Scriptures and whiche haue both reade seene what hath happened to al godly menne commonly at al times what to the Prophetes to the Apostles to the Holy Martyres and what to Christe him selfe with what rebukes reuilinges and despites they were continually vexed whiles they here liued that onely for the Truthes sake Wee I saye doo see that this is not onely no newe thinge or harde to be beleued but that it is a thinge already receiued and commonly vsed from age to age Nay truely this might seeme muche rather a merueile and beyonde al beliefe if the Diuel who is the Father of lies enimie to al Truthe would now vpon a suddaine chaunge his nature and hope that Truthe might otherwise be suppressed then by belieinge it Or that he would beginn◠to establish his owne kingdome by vsinge nowe any other practises then the same whiche he hath euer vsed from the beginninge For since any mans remembrance we can skante finde one time either when Religion did first growe or when it was setled or when it did afreshe springe vp againe wherein Truthe Innocencie were not by al vnwoorthy meanes most despitefully intreated Doubtlesse the Diuel wel seeth that so longe as truthe is in good safetie him selfe cannot be safe nor yet maintaine his owne estate For letting passe the auncient Patriarkes Prophetes who as we haue said had no parte of their life free from cōtumelies sclaunders We knowe there were certaine in times paste whiche saide and commonly Preached that the olde auncient Iewes of whome we make no doubte but they were the woorshippers of the onely true God did worship either a Sowe or an Asse in Goddes steede and that al the same Religion was nothinge els but sacrilege and a plaine contempt of al godlines We know also that the Sonne of God our Saueour Iesus Christe when he taught the Truth was coumpted a Sorcerer an Enchaunter a Samaritane Beelzebub a deceiur of the People a Drunkarde a Glutton Againe who woteth not what woordes were spoken against S. Paule the moste earnest and vehement Preacher maintainer of the Truthe Sometime that he was a seditious and busie man a raiser of tumultes a causer of rebellion sometime againe that he was an Heretique sometime that he was mad sometime that onely vpon strife and stomake he was bothe a blasphemer of Gods lawe and a despiser of the Fathers ordinances Further who knoweth not how S. Steuin after he had throughly and sincerely embraced the truthe and beganne frankly stoutly to preache and set forth the same as
Donatistes Hanc formam ne ab ipsis quidem Iudaeis persecutoribus accepistis Illi enim persequuti sunt Carnem ambulantis in terra Vos Euangelium sedentis in Coelo Ye learned not this fourme of persequution no not of the Iewes For they persequuted the Fleashe of Christe walkinge in the Earthe You persequute the Gospel of Christe sittinge in Heauen Robert Holcote emonge other his doubtes moueth this question An Amor sit odium VVhether Loue be hatred or no. Yf he were nowe aliue sawe your dealinge and the kindnesse of your Loue I beleue he woulde put the mater out of question saye vndoubtedly your Loue is hatred it is no Loue. So Moses saithe Ismael plaied or sported with Isaac But S Paule saithe The same plaieinge and sportinge was persecution For thus he writeth He that was after the Fleashe persequuted him was after the Sprite I doubte not but you thinke of your parte it is wel donne For so Christe saithe VVho so euer shal Murder you shal thinke be offereth a Sacrifice vnto God And your selues haue sette to this note in greate Letters in the Margine of your Decrees Iudaei mortaliter peccassent si ChristuÌ„ noÌ„ Crucifixissent The Iewes had Sinned deadly if they had not hinged Christe vpon the Crosse Benedictus Deus qui non dedit nos in captionem Dentibus eorum Blessed be God that hath not geuen vs to be a Praie vnto their Teeth To al the reste it is sufficient for M. Hardinge to saye They be Blasphemous Heresies wicked Actes Lutheres Heresies and villanies Robbinge of Churches Breaches of Vowes Pleasâ—ely pleasures Abandoninge of the Holy Sacramentes Malices Sclaunders and Lies And bisides these thinges in effecte he answeareth nothinge Nowe to answeare nothinge with some thinge it were woorthe nothinge The Apologie Cap. 3. Diuision 5. Nowe therefore if it be leeful for these folkes to be eloquent and finetongued in speakinge euil surely it becommeth not vs in our cause beinge so very good to be doumbe in answearinge truely For menne to bee carelesse what is spoken by them and theite owne mater be it neuer do falsely and sclaunderousely spoken especialy when it is sutche that the Maiestie of God and the cause of Religion maye thereby be dammaged is the parte doubtlesse of dissolute and retchelesse persons and of them whiche wickedly winke at the iniuries donne vnto the Name of God For although other wronges ye oftentimes greate maye be borne and dissembled of a milde and Christian man yet he that goeth smoothely awaye and dissembleth the mater when he is noted of Heresie Ruffinus was woont to denie that man to be a Christian Wee therefore wil doo the same thinge whiche al Lawes whiche natures owne voice doothe commaunde to be donne and whiche Christe him selfe did in like case when he was checked and reuiled to the inâ—â—â—t wee maye put of from vs these mennes sclaunderous accusations and maye defende soberly and truely our owne cause and innocencie M. Hardinge Yee haue not proued the Truthe to be of your side nor euer shal be able to proue mainteininge the Doctrine of the Lutheras Zwinglians and Caluinistes as ye doo Nowe al dependeth of that pointe And bicause yee haue not the Truthe what so euer ye saye it is soone confuted and what so euer ye bringe it is to no purpose The B. of Sarisburie This is the very issue of the case Whether the Doctrine that wée professe be the Truethe or no. Whiche thinge through Goddes Grace by this our conference in parte maye appare I beseeche God the Authour of al Truthe and the Father of Light so to open our hartes that the thinge that is the Truthe in déede maye appeare to vs to be the Truthe The Apologie Cap. 4. Diuision 2. For Christe verily when the Phariseis charged him with Sorcery as one that had some familiare Sprites and wrought many thinges by theire helpe I saide he haue not the Diuel but doo glorifie my Father but it is you that haue dishonoured me and put me to rebuke and shame And S. Paule when Festus the Lieutenaunt scorned him as a mad man I saide he moste deer Festus am not mad as thou thinkest but I speake the Woordes of Truth sobrenesse And the ancient Christians when they were sclaundered to the people for mankillers for Adulterers for committers of incest for disturbers of the common Weales and did perceiue that by sutche sclaunderous accusations the Religion whiche they professed mighte be brought in question namely if they should seeme to holde their peace in manner confesse the faulte lest this might hinder the free course of the Gospel they made Orations they put vp Supplications and made meanes to Emperours and Princes that they mighte defende them selues and theire Felowes in open Audience M. Hardinge When ye prooue that ye haue the Truthe then maye ye be admitted in your Defence to alleage the example of Christe of S. Paule and of the firste Christians But nowe wee tel you beinge as you are these examples serue you to no purpose And for ought ye haue saide â—itherto the Anabaptistes Libertines Zwenkfeldians Nestorians Eunomians Arians and al other pestiferous Heretikes might saye the same aswel as ye Christe was charged of the Iewes with vsinge the power of impure Sprites blasphemously Paule was scorned of Festus as a mad man without cause the Ancient Christians were accused by the Infidels of hainous crimes falsely But ye are accused of Heresies and sundrie Impieties by Godly VVise and Faithful men vpon Zeale by good aduise and truely And as for those Auncient Christians when they made Apologies or Orations in the Defence of the Christen Faithe they did it so as became Christen men plainely and openly Either they offered them to the Emperours with thei owne handes or put to their names and signified to whome they gaue the same As S. Hilary deliuered a Booke in Defence of the Catholique Faithe against the Arians to Constantius Melito and Apollinaris wrote their Apologies to the Emperours S. Iustine the Philosopher and Martyr gaue his firste Apologie for the Christians to the Senate of the Romaines the seconde to Autonius Pius Emperour Tertullian to the Romaines S. Apollonius the Romaine Senatour and Martyr did Reade his Booke openly in the Senate house whiche he had made in Defence of the Christian Faithe But yee doo your thinges that ought to be done openly in Hucker Mucker Ye set foorth your Apologie in the name of the Churche of Englande before any meane parte of the Churche were priuie to it and so as though either ye were ashamed of it or afraide to abide by it The inscription of it is directed neither to Pope nor Emperour nor to any Prince nor to the Churche nor to the general Councel then beinge when ye wrote it as it was moste conuenient There is no mans name set to it It is Printed without Priuilege of the Prince contrary
to Lawe in that behalfe made allowed neither by Parlament nor by Proclamation nor agreed vpon by the Cleregie in Publike and lawful Synode This packinge becommeth you it becommeth not the vpright Professours of the Truthe Wherefore your vnlawful Booke as it is so it maye be called an Inuectiue or rather a Famous Libel and sclaunderous VVrite as that whiche seemeth to haue benne made in a corner and cast abroade in the streetes the Authours whereof the Ciuil Lawe punis heth sharpely The B. of Sarisburie Howe far foorth these examples maye serue vs wée remit the iudgement thereof to the discrete Christian Reader It is not yenough thus to crie out Impieties and Heresies M. Hardinges bare Woorde in this behalfe is not sufficient to warrant an euidence Certainely emonge other greate comfortes that wee haue in Goddes mercies this is one and not the leaste that touchinge the Innocencie and right of out cause wée maye saye to you as Christe saide to the Phariseis Wee haue not the Diuel but wee glorifie our Father Or as S. Paule saide vnto Festus Wee are not madde M. Hardinge as ye reporte of vs but wee viter vnto you the Woordes of Truthe and sobrietie But this is a piteous faulte The names of al the Bishoppes Deanes Acchedeacons Personnes Vicares and Curates of England are not sette to our Apologie It is directed neither to the Emperour nor to the Pope nor to the Councel Neither is it Printed with Priuilege of the Prince This laste clause is a manifest Vntruthe and maye easily be reproued by the Printer Hereof ye conclude It is a sclaunderous Libel and was written vnder a Hedge and as you saye in Hucker Mucker Firste were it graunted that al ye saye of Hilarie Melito Iustinus Tertullian and Apollonius were true Yet muste it néedes folowe that al Bookes that are not Subscribed with the Authours names were written in a corner Firste to beginne with the Scriptures tel vs M. Hardinge who wrote the Bookes of Genesis of Exodus of Leuiticus of Numeri of DeuteronomiuÌ„ of Ioâ—ue of the Iudges of the Kinges of the Chronicles of Iob c. Who inrote these Bookes I saye Who authorized them Who Subscribed his name Who set to his Sâ—ale The Booke of Wisedome by some is Fathered vpon Philo by some vpoÌ„ Salomon The Epistle vnto the Hebrewes some saye was written by S. Paule Some by Clemens Some by Barnabas Some by some other so are wee vncertaine of the Authours name S. Marke S. Luke S. Iohn neuer once named them selues in their Gospels The Apostles Crede the Canons of the Apostles by what names are they Subscribed Howe are they authorized To what Pope to what Emperour were they offered To leaue others the Auncient Doctours of the Churche whiche as you knowe are often misnamed Ambrose for Augustine Gréeke for Latine Newe for Olde your Doctour of Doctours the fairest flower and croppe of your garlande Gratianus is so wel knowen by his name that wise menne can not wel tel What name to geue him Erasmus saithe of him thus Quisquis fuit siue Gratianus siue Crassianus What so euer name wee may geue him be it Gratianus or Crassianus And againe he saithe Eruditi negant illam Gratiani nescio cuius congeriem vlla vnquam Publica Ecclesiae authoritate fuisse comprobatam The learned saye that Gratians Collection or heape of maters was neuer allowed by any Publique Authoritie of the Churche And againe Non constat vllis argumentis quis fuerit Gratianus quo tempore opus suum exhibuerit cuius Pontificis cuius Concilij fuerit Authoritate comprobatum It cannot appeare by any tokens of recorde neither what this Gratian was nor at what time he offered vp his Booke nor what Councel nor what Pope allowed it Who subscribed the late Councel of Colaine Who subscribed the Booke not longe sithence sette abroade vnder the name of the Churche of Colaine and named Antididagma To be shorte who subscribed your owne late Booke intituled the Apologie of Priuate Masse Where were they written Where were they Subscribed By what authoritie and vnder what names were they allowed I wil saye nothinge of your late Famouse Volume bearinge the name of Marcus Antonius Constantius This Booke as you see hathe three greate names Notwithstandinge the Authour him selfe had but twoo and yet not one of al these three What M. Hardinge would you make your Brethren beleue that al these be but sclaunderous Writes diuised onely in Hucker Mucker and vnder a Hedge The Decree the Apostles made in the fiftenthe Chapter of the Actes it appeareth not it was so curiously subscribed with al theire names The Protestation of the Bohemiens in the Councel of Basile the Confession of the Churches of Geneua Heluetia for ought that I knowe haue no sutche Publique Subscriptions Neither is it necessarie nor commonly vsed to ioyne Priuate mennes names to Publique maters neither in so mightie ample a Realme vpon al incident occasions is it so easy to be donne Briefely our Apologie is coÌ„firmed by as many names as the highe Courte of Parlamente of England is confirmed Neither was the same conceiued in so darke a corner as M. Hardinge imagineth For it was afterwarde imprinted in Latine at Parise and hathe henne fithence Translated into the Frenche the Italian the Duche and the Spanishe tongues and hathe benne sente and borne abroade into France Flaunders Germanie Spaine Poole Hungarie Denmarke Sueucland Scotland Italie Naples and Rome it selfe to the iudgemente and trial of the whole Churche of God Yea it was Readde and sharply considered in your late Couente at Trident greate threates made there that it should be answeared and the mater by twoo Notable learned Bishoppes taken in hande the one a Spaniarde the other an Italian Which twoo notwithstandinge these fiue whole yéeres haue yet donne nothinge nor I belèeue intende any thinge to doo In deede certaine of your Brethren haue benne often gnawinge at it but sutche as care nothinge nor is cared what they write But if names be so necessarie wee haue the names of the whole Cleregie of Englande to confirme the Faithe of our Doctrine and your name M. Hardinge as you can wel remember emongst the reste onlesse as ye haue already denied your Faithe so ye wil nowe also denie your name To conclude it is greatter modestie to publishe our owne Booke without Name then as you doo to publishe other mennes Bookes in your owne Names For in deede M. Hardinge the Bookes ye lende so thicke ouer are not yours Ye are but Translatours ye are no Authours Yf euery birde shoulde fetche againe his owne Feathers alas your poore Chickens woulde die for colde But you saye Wee offered not our Booke to the Pope No neither ought wée so to doo He is not our Bishop He is not our Iudge Wee maye saye vnto him as the Emperour Constantius saide sometime to Pope Liberius Quoia es tu paâ—s Orbis
Supreme aboue al other auctoritie in Earthe touchinge the gouernement of the Churche yet was it neuer saide ne thought by the Catholiques that al Religion depended onely thereon as your sclaunderous reporte beareth menne in hande The B. of Sarisburie Lanfrancus Euimondus Abbas Cluniacensis Thomas Waldensis Iohn Fisher and other your like Doctours M. Hardinge are ouer yonge al within the space of this laste fiue hundred yéeres far vnlike S. Augustine S. Hierome S. Ambrose S. Chrysostome and others the Ancient Learned Fathers Doctours of the Churche Neither is there any sufficient cause to the contrarie but that Berengarius Iohn Wicklefe Iohn Hus Doctour Luther Zwinglius Oecolampadius others either for Learninge or for Truthe or for Iudgement in the Scriptures or for Antiquitie maye wel safely be compared with them At the least I hope wée maye saie of them as S. Augustine once saide of the Doctours Fathers of his time Neque quorumliber Disputationes quamuis Catholicorum laudatorum hominum velut Scripturas Canonicas habere debemus vt nobis non liceat salua honorificentia quae illis debetur aliquid in eorum Scriptis improbare aut respuere si fortè inuenerimus quòd aliter selfserint quà m Veritas habet Neither weigh wee the writinges of al meane be they neuer so woorthy and Catholique as wee weighe the Canonical Scriptures but that sauinge the reuerence that is dewe vnto them we maye wislike and refuse somewhat in their writinges if we happen to finde that they haue thought otherwise then the Truthe maye beare Likewise the Councelles ye meane are very Newe therefore beare the lesse authoritie for that they be so many waies contrary to the Olde Hereof hereafter more at large Certainely there is none of your errours so grosse and palpable but by some of your late Councelles it hath benne confirmed Therefore wee maye iustly saie to you as S. Augustine sometime saide to Mariminus the Arian Heretique Nec ego Nicenam Synodum tibi nec tu mihi Ariminensem debes tanquam praeiudicaturus obijcere Scripturarum Authoritatibus res cum re causa cum causa ratio cuÌ„ ratione conceuer Neither maye I saye to thee the Councel of Nice nor maiste thou laye to mee the Councel of Ariminum either of vs thinkinge thereby to finde preuidice against the other But let vs laye mater to mater cause to cause and reason to reason by the Authoritie of the Scriptures Ye graunte there is more lighte and knowledge nowe then was before The greatter is either your faulte or your folie M. Hardinge that in the broade daye open Lighte so busily set foorthe the woorkes of darkenesse S. Chrysostome saithe Hic est multò impudentior Ex furibus enim leges eos grauiùs puniunt qui interdiu furantur He is very shamelesse that woorketh deceite in the open Lighte For of al Theeues the Lawe moste sharpely punisheth them that robbe in the daye time Therefore S. Cyprian saithe vnto you Ignosci poruit simpliciter erranti Post inspirationem verò reuelationem factam qui in eo quod errauerat perseuerat prudens sciens sine venia ignorantiae peccat Praesumptione enim atque obstinatione superatur He that is deceiued and erieth of simplicitie maye be pordoned But after that the Truthe is once reueled who so continueth neuerthelesse in his former errour witingly and willingly sinneth without pardonne of ignorance as beinge ouercome by presumption and wilfulnesse You saie not withstandinge al this greate Light wée talke of yet our liues are nothinge comparable to the liues of them that haue benne before vs. This M. Hardinge hathe euer benne an olde complainte in al ages as maye appeare by S. Cyprian S. Augustine and other Ancient Fathers It was a common Prouerbe in olde times 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Thinges a yéere paste are euermore better then thinges presente For euery thinge to vs séemeth the greatter as it séemeth nearest to touche our senses And bicause wée féele not our Fathers euilles therefore wée imagine they had no euil at al. The wise man saithe Ne dixeris quae causa est quòd priora tempora meliora fuerint quà m praesentia Stulta enim est huiusmodi interrogatio Neuer demaunde wherefore the times paste were better then the times presente For in deede it is a foolishe question But M. Hardinge wherefore doo you thus condemne our liues in respecte of our Fathers Certainely you must néedes confesse there are fewer blasphemies fewer Othes fewer breaches of Matrimonie fewer Stewes fewer Concubines fewer Fraies fewer Murthers emongst vs this daie then commonly were at any time emonge our Fathers How be it to let our Fathers passe if it shal please you to laye our liues to your liues although we acknowledge many our imperfections yet Goddes name be blessed wee haue no cause to flee the comparison The Popes woordes you saie were neuer taken for Gospel Yes M. Hardinge and somewhat also aboue the Gospel For proufe whereof it maye please you to remember the woordes of certaine your late Doctours Syluester Prieriâs late Maâ—sâ—ter of Pope Leoes Palaice writeth thus Indulgentiae authoritate Scripturae non innotuere nobis sed authoritate Ecclesiae Romanae Romanorumque Pontificum quae maior est Pardonnes are not warrented vnto vs by the authoritie of Goddes Woorde but by the authoritie of the Romaine Churche and of the Bishoppes of Rome whiche is more then Goddes VVoorde Yf this be not sufficient he addeth farther A doctrina Romanae Ecclesiae Romani Pontificis Sacra Scriptura robur authbritatem trahit The Hosy Scripture taketh strength and authoritie of the Doctrine of the Bishop and Churche of Rome Cardinal Cusanus entituleth his Booke De authoritate Ecclesiae Councilij supra contra Scripturam Of the Authoritie of the Churche and Councel aboue and against the Scripture Your greatest Doctour Albertus Pigghius saithe Apostoli quaedam conscripserunt non vt scripta illa praessene Fidei Religioni nostrae sed potius vt subessent The Apostles wrote certaine thinges not to the ende that sutche willinges shoulde he ouer our Faithe and Religion but rather that they shoulde be vnder Your Canonistes saie a Papa potest dispensare coÌ„ira ius Diuinum The Pope maye dispense against the Lawe of God Papa potest dispensare contra Ius Naturae The Pope maye dispense against the Lawe of Nature Papa potest dispensare contra Apostolum The Pope maye dispense against S. Pause the Apostle Papa porest dispensare contra Nouum Testamentum The Pope maye dispense againste the Newe Testamente Papa potest dispensare de omnibus praeceptis veteris Noui Testamenti The Pope maye dispense with al the CommauÌ„dementes bothe of the Olde and also of the Newe Testamente Hereof more hereafter as farther occasion shal be offered These be your owne Doctours woordes M. Hardinge they be truely reported they be
consentientem diuinitùs adspiratis Scripturis Traditionibus Sanctorum Patrum Wee reioice togeather eche of vs in others behalfe for that the Faithe bothe of our Churches and also of yours is agreable bothe vnto the Heauenly inspired Scriptures and also to the Tradition and exposition of our Fathers Whiche woordes of Cyrillus beinge hearde and the consente of the Fathers being knowen the whole Councel for ioye made a shoote togeather Omnes ita credimus Papa Leo ita credit c. Thus wee al beleeue Pope Leo thus beleeuethe Thus beleeuethe Leo and Anatolius Thus Cyrillus beleeuethe This is the Faithe of our Fathers This is the Faithe of the Apostles Thus haue the Apostles taught Thus maye you sée M. Hardinge wée saye not to you as you doo to vs If you be Learned for thereof we haue no doubte God graunte ye maie directe your Learninge to his glorie but thus maye you see to what ende the Bishoppes in the Councelles ye speake of alleged the expositions of the Ancient Fathers and howe farre they weighed them vnder the Authoritie of the Scriptures In like sorte doo wée also this day allege against you the manifeste and vndoubted agreeable iudgementes of the moste Aunciente Learned Holy Fathers and thereby as by apapproued and faitheful witnesses wée disclose the infinite folies and errours of your Doctrine And séeinge you haue forsaken the felowship of the saide Holy Fathers as hereafter shal more â—ully appeare wée saye vnto you as Endoxius saide vnto the Heretique Abbate Eutyches in the Councel of Chalcedon Ye haue remoued your selues bothe from al Priestly Communion and also from the presence of Christe The Apologie Cap. 9. Diuision 2. S. Augustine when he disputed againste Petilian the Donatian Heretique Let not these woordes quod he be hearde betweene vs I saye or you saye Let vs rather speake in this wise Thus saithe the Lorde There let vs seeke the Churche there let vs boulte out the cause M. Hardinge Concerninge this place of S. Augustine it ought not to be stretched to al maters in general that be in question as though wee might not vse the Testimonies and Authorities of the Fathers againste Heretikes but it perteinethe onely to the quaestion in that booke De vnitate Ecclesiae treated of whiche is where the Churche is PetiliaÌ„ the Donatist and the Mainteiners of that Heresie coÌ„tended the Churche to be onely in Aphrike or at the furthest in Parte Donati amonge theÌ„ onely that helde with Donatus The same heresie went they about to proue by Scriptures But when S. Augustine sawe howe weake theire proufes were whiche they brought out of the Scriptures he prouoked them the better to ouerthrow them to come to the trial of the Scriptures And in deede where the Scriptures be manifeste for proufe of any matter what nede is there of Doctours But where the sense of the Scriptures is obscure and may be wrested by euil wittes to the maintenauÌ„ce of an Heresie there the expositions of the Fathers by al Olde VVriters haue ben taken of necessitie to supplie the Scriptures obscuritie and to declare the sense of the Churche whiche the Holy Ghost hathe proÌ„pted And in sutche cases S. Augustine himselfe vsethe the Testimonies of the Fathers not seldome namely against Iulian the Pelagian VVhere beside Scripture touchinge Original sinne he allegethe against the Pelagians a great number of Fathers and at length in one place speakinge of the Authoritie reuerence and credite he had them in he saithe thus Quod credunt credo c VVhat they beleue I beleue what they holde I holde what they teache I teache what they preache I preache From the special to the general negatiuely the argumente holdethe not ye knowe if ye haue not forgotten your Logike The B. of Sarisburie M. Hardinge as wel here as els where thinkethe it an easy mater with a bolde Asseueration to smoothe his vnlearned simple Reader specially sutche a one as hathe no eies to looke after him These woordes of S Augustine saithe he perteine onely vnto the mater he had then in hande and therefore maye not be forced to any other And here he remembrethe vs of a profounde pointe in Logique that a Negatiue CoÌ„clusion from the Special to the General cannot holde Here it were a mater woorthy the hearinge firste howe M. Hardinge coulde enter so déepely to knowe so mutche of S. Augustines meaninge next for as mutche as in respecte of him selfe he euermore fansiethe vs to be vnlearned howe he were hable to teache vs to knowe the same He assuerethe vs vpon his woorde that these woordes of S. Augustine muste néedes be pounded and restreined to that one onely mater maie not in any wise be stretched farther this he imagineth was S. Augustines meaninge Thus good Reader by M. Hardinges handlinge thou haste here a meaninge of S. Augustines that S. Augustine himselfe neuer meante For S. Augustine in the same mater and against the same Heretique Petilian although not in the same Booke writethe thus Siue de Christo siue de eius Ecclesia siue de quacunque re alia quae pertinet ad Fidem vitamque nostraÌ„ noÌ„ dicam Si Nos Sed si Angelus de Coelo nobis annuntiauerit praeterquà m quod in Scripturis Legalibus EuaÌ„gelicis accepistis Anathema sit VVhether it bee of Christe or of his Churche or of any thinge els what so euer perteininge either to our life or to our Faithe I wil not saie If I mee selfe but if an Angel from Heauen shal teache vs otherwise then wee haue receiued in the Bookes of the Lawe and in the Gospelles holde him accursed M. Hardinge saithe S. Augustine meante onely of one mater S. Augustine him selfe saithe he meante of al manner maters touchinge either Faithe or Life M. Hardinge saithe S. Augustine meante this onely of him selfe S. Augustine him selfe saithe be meante it of any other yea eueÌ„ of the Angels of God And shal wee thinke M. Hardinge knoweth S. Augustines meaninge and S. Augustine him selfe knewe it not Verily S. Augustine in an other case concerninge the Arians as I haue touched twise before likewise refuseth the Determinations of al Councelles and Fathers and standeth onely to the Scriptures Neither wil I saithe he â–ª allege againste thee the Councel of Nice nor shalt thou allege againste mée the Councel of Ariminum c. Neither dothe S. Augustine onely saye thus but also yeeldeth a reason why he saithe it These be his woordes Auferantur de medio quae aduersus nos inuicem non ex Diuinis Canonicis Libris sed aliundé recitamus Quaerer fortasse aliquis Cur vis ista auferri de medio Quia nolo humanis Documentis sed Diuinis Oraculis Ecclesiam Sanctam demoÌ„strari Haue away al those Authorities that either of vs allegeth against the other sauinge sutche onely as be taken out of the Heauenly Canonical Scriptures But perhaps somme man wil
are sure he hath none at al. Iudge thou nowe Gentle Reader whether of these Doctours thou wilt beléeue But what a vaine vanitie and folie is this wil M. Hardinge haue vs beléeue that God cannot be God onlesse he be allowed by the Churche of Rome and by the Pope Then are wée come againe to that the Tertullian writeth merily of the Heathens Nisi Homini Deus placuerit Deus non erit Homo iam Deo propitius esse debebit Onlesse God please Man wel though he be God he shal be no God And so nowe Man must be frendely and fauourable vnto God Wée beleeue M. Hardinge that the Holy Ghost is very God in déede not vpon the Popes or his Cleregies credite but as S. Augustine saith vpon the special warrante of the Woorde of God And therefore Nazianzene saithe Dicet aliquis non esse scriptum Spiritum Sanctum esse Deū Atqui proponetur tibi examen Testimoniorum ex quibus ostendetur Diuinitatem Sancti Spiritus testatam esse in Sacris Literis nisi quis valde insulsus sit alienus à Spiritu Sancto Some Man wil saie It is not written that the Holy Ghost is God But I wil bring thee foorth a whole Svvarme of Authorities whereby it shal wel appeare that the Godhed of the Holy Ghost is plainely witnessed in the Holy Scriptures Onlesse a Man be very dul and vtterly voide of the Holy Ghoste The Apologie Cap. 2. Diuision 1. We beleue that there is one Churche of God that the same is not shutte vp as in times past emong the Iewes into some One corner or Kingdome but that it is Catholique Vniuersal and dispersed throughout the whole world So that there is now no Nation which may truely complaine y◠they be shutte foorth may not be one of the Churche people of God and y◠this Church is the Kingdome the Body and the Spouse of Christe that Christe alone is the Prince of this Kingedome that Christe alone is the Head of this Body and that Christe alone is the Bridegroome of this Spouse M. Hardinge It is a world to see these Defenders They whiche haue not kepte Vnitie of Spirite in the band of Charitie which S. Paule requireth but haue seuered them selues from the Body of the Church tel vs now forsooth they beleeue that there is one Churche of God But what maie wee thinke this one Churche to be Can they seme to meane any other what so euer they pretend then this new Church of late yeeres set vp by Sathan through the ministerie of Martine Luther and those other Apostates his companions if it maie be named a Churche and not rather a Babylonical Tower For as touchinge that Churche whereof al Christen People hath euer taken the Successour of Peter to be the Heade vnder Christe whiche is the true Catholike Churche in theire Apologie they sticke not to saie plainely that it is clene fallen downe longe agone And therefore the beginning of Luthers Seditious and Heretical preaching they cal Herbam as muche to saie as the greene Grasse or first spring this interpreter nameth it the very first appearing of the Gospel leafe F. 7. And in the leafe F. 8. they saie that fortie yeeres agone and vpward that is at the first setting foorth of Luther and Zuinglius the Truth was vnknowen and vnheard of and that they first came to the knowledge and preaching of the Gospel Likewise in an other place they graunt that certaine and very strange sectes haue ben stirringe in the worlde euer since the Gospel did spring meaning the time when Luther first brinced to Germanie the poisoned Cuppe of his Heresies Blasphemies and Sathanismer Thus hauing condemned the Churche of God whiche was before Luthers time and allowinge that for the true Churche the Gospel whereof first sprang out of Luther how can they auouche theire belefe and by what reason and learning can they make good that there is one Churche of God VVee would faine knowe whiche and where it is Is Luther and his congregation that one Churche of God or Zuinglius and his rable or Osiunder and his sort or Zuenckfeldius and his secte or Stancarus and his band or Balthasar Pacimontane and his rancke For al these and certaine other sectes haue Luther for their founder and for their Radix Iesse as it were from whence they spring And in deede euery learned man easely seeth how the gutters of their Doctrines runne out of Luthers sincke Of al these there is none but stoutly claimeth the name of the Churche Then how saie ye Defenders whiche Churche be ye name the Childe Yf ye name one wee sette the others against you c. How often in his bookes putteth Luther you and your Captaines in the rolle of those that he vtterly condemneth naminge roundly togeather Infidels Turkes Epicures Heretikes Papistes Sacramentaries And nowe if he should heare you chalenge the name of the one Churche of God to you and denie him and his folowers that claimed title would he not thinke ye stampe and rage would he not whetie his dogge eloquence vpon you and cal you worse then these aboue rekened yea and if he wist how worse then some of you be your selues The like courtesie maieye looke for at those other sectes of whiche euery one claimeth the name of this one Churche of God But ye saie that this One Churche is not shutte vp into some one corner or Kingdome but that it is Catholike and Vniuersal and dispersed through out the whole world True it is that ye saie what so euer ye thinke But the Holy learned and auncien Fathers where they cal and beleeue the Catholike Churche they meane as Vincentius Liriuensis declareth the Churche to be Catholike that is to saie Vniuersal for so the word signifieth in respecte of a threefold Vniuersalitie of places whiche this Defender here toucheth of times and of menne whiche he toucheth not In the Catholike Churche we must haue a great care saithe he that we hold that whiche hath euery where euermore and of al persons ben beleeued If these Defenders proue not the Churche they professe them selues to be of to haue this threefold Vntuer salitie then is their Congregation not this one Churche nor of this one Churche of God but the synagog of Antichriste And although the Authours of this Apologie crake of the great increase and spredding abroade of their Gospel and now glorie in the number of Kingedomes Dukedomes Countries common VVeales and Free Cities Yet hath it not gone so farre abroade as the Arians heresie did by three partes of foure VVhiche was at length vtterly extinguished as this shal be That the Catholike Churche is the Kingedome the Body and the Spouse of Christe we acknowledge Of the same Kingdome we confesse and beleeue Christ to be Prince alone so as he is Heade of this Body alone and so as he is Bridegrome of this spouse
And therefore he was faine to expounde his meaninge and to weigh him downe of the other side with his prety Glose But S. Bernarde without Glose saithe plainely Non sunt omnes amici Spousi qui hodiè sunt Sponsi Ecclesae They be not al the Bridegromes frendes that are this daye the Spouses of the Churche O miserandain Sponsam ralibus creditam Paranymohis Non accici Sponsi sed aemuli sunt O miserable is that Spouse that is committed to sutche Leaders They are not the frendes they are the enimies of the Bridegrome How be it wée néede not greatly to recke what styles and titles the Pope can vouchesaue to allowe him selfe As he may be called the Heade the Prince and the Spouse euen so and by like authoritie and truthe may he be called the Light the Life the Saueour and the God of the Churche God geue him an harte to vnderstande that hée maie be although not the Heade yet a Member of that Body although not the Prince yet a Subiecte in that Kingedome although not the Bridegrome yet a Childe of the Churche of God The Apologie Cap. 3. Diuision 1. Furthermore wee Beleeue that there be diuers degrees of Ministers in the Churche whereof some be Deacons some Priestes some Bishoppes to whom is committed the office to instructe the people and the whole charge and settinge foorthe of Religion M. Hardinge Here it had ben your parte to haue declared your faithe touching the Holy Sacrament of Order agreable to the faith of the Catholike Churche That there be seuen orders in the Churche foure lesser and three greater for so by good reason they are called And as for the institution auctoritie and estimation of the greater specially of Priesthood and Deaconship ye might haue alleged the Scriptures so for the Lesser the example of Christe the Tradition of the Apostles and the testimonies written of the Apostles scholers of those that bothe nexte and sone after folowed them namely Dionys cap. 3. Hierarch Ecclesiast Ignatius epist 8. ad Ecclesiam Antiochenam Tertullian in praescript aduersus Hereticos Gaius Pope and Martyr in Diocletians time Sozimus in S. Augustines time Isychius Eusebius Caesariensis is his Ecclesiastical historie and Epiphanius in the ende of his Booke contra Haereses The B. of Sarisburie Gentle Reader if I should leaue these and other like M. Hardinges woordes vnansweared thou mightest happily thinke he had saide somewhat Here he saithe it had benne our Parte to haue tolde thée of Seuen Orders in the Churche thrée Greatter and foure Lesse Hauing in déede him selfe cleane forgotten his owne Parte For notwithstandinge this controlment and accoumpte of so many Orders yet he nameth no moe Orders then wée haue named And verily if he would haue folowed his owne Authorities it had benne hard for him in any good Order to haue made vp his owne accoumpte For his owne Anacletus saithe Ampliùs quà m isti Duo Ordines Sacerdotum Episcopi Presbyteri nec nobis à Deo collati sunt nec Apostoli docuerunt More then these two Orders of Priestes Bishoppes and Elders neither hathe God appointed vs nor haueÌ„ the Apostles tought vs. And yet of these same Two seueral Orders S. Hierome semeth to make onely One Order For thus he writeth Audio quendam in tantam erupisse vecordiam vt Diaconos Presbyteris id est Episcopis anteferret I heare saye there is a man broken out vnto sutche wilful furie that he placeth Deacons before Priestes that is to saye before Bishops And againe Apostolus praecipué docer eosdem esse Presbyteros quos Episcopos The Apostle Paule specially teacheth vs that Priestes and Bishoppes be al one The same S. Hierome writinge vpon the Prophete Esai reckenethe onely fiue Orders or Degrees in the whole Churche The Bishoppes the Priestes the Deacons the Entrers or Beginners and the Faitheful And other Order of the Churche he knoweth none Clemens saithe Tribus gradibus eommissa sunt Sacramenta Diuinorum SecretoruÌ„ id est Presbytero Diacono Ministro The Mysteries of the Holy Secresies be committed vnto three Orders that is vnto the Priestes vnto the Deacons and vnto the Ministers And yet Deacons and Ministers as touchinge the name are al one Dionysius likewise hathe thrée Orders but not the same For he rekenethe Bishoppes Priestes Deacons And whereas M. Hardinge maketh his accoumpte of Foure of the Lesse or Inferiour Orders meaning thereby Ostiarios Lectores Exorcistas Acoluthos The Doore keepers the Readers the conuerers and the Waiters or Folowers His owne Ignatius addethe thereto thrée other Orders Cantores Laboratores Confitentes The Chounters or Singers the Labourers and the Confessours Elemens addeth thereto Catechistas The Infourmers or Teachers of them that were entringe into the Faithe A litle vaine Booke bearinge the name of S. Hierome De SepteÌ„ Ordinibus Ecclesiae addeth yet an other Order and calleth them Fossarios that is The Sextines or Ouerseers of the Graues And least you should thinke he rekeneth this Order as emongst other necessarie offices to serue the people and not as any parte of the Cleregie his wordes be these Primus in Clericis Fossariorum Ordo est qui in similitudinem Tobiae Sancti sepelire morruos admonet The Firste Order of the Cleregie is the Order of the Sextines whiche as Holy Tobâ—e was woonte to doo casse vppon the people for the burial of the deade Likewise to the thrée greater Orders Isidorus addeth an other distincte seueral Order of Bishoppes vnto whom agréethe Gulielmus Altisiodorensis Gottofredus Pictauiensis as appeareth by Iohannes Scotus Againe of the other Inferiour Orders S. Hierome leaueth out the Coniurers VVaiters S. Ambrose leaueth out the VVaiters and Doore Keepers The Canons of the Apostles leaue out Coniurers VVaiters and Doore keepers al thrée togeather In this so greate dissension darkenesse what waie wil M. Hardinge take to folow By Anacletus there be Two Orders by Clemens S. Hierome Thrée by Hierome Countrefeite SeueÌ„ by others Eight by other Nine by others Tenne At this notwithstandinge he telleth vs our parte had benne to haue shewed that there be iuste Seuen Orders in the Churche Thrée greate and Foure Lesse withoute doubte or question Here gentle Reader it had benne M. Hardinges parte to haue shewed vs the Reasons and Groundes of this Diuinitie These they be as they are alleged by the beste of that side Christe saith I am the Doore Ergo there muste be in the Churche an Order of Doore Keepers Christe saithe I am the Light of the World Hereupon haue thei founded the Order of Acolutes to carrie Tapers And so for the reste Thus mutche maie serue for a taste Now let vs consider what these Orders haue to doo and with how Holy and weighty offices they stand charged in the Churche of God Firste Clemens of whoe 's Authoritie M. Hardinge maket be no smal accoumpte for he calleth
Coeterùm omnes Apostolorum Successores sunt Quid mihi profers Vnius Vrbis consuetudinem What doothe a Bishop sauâ—nge onely the Orderinge of Ministers but a Prieste maye doo the same Neither maye wee thinke that the Churche of Rome is one and the Churche of al the worlde biside is another Fraunce Englande Aphrica Persia Leuâ—nte India and al the Barbarous Nations woorship one Christe and keepe one rule of the Truthe If vvee seeke for Authoritie The whole worlde is greater then the Cittie of Rome Where so euer there be a Bishop be it at Eugubium be it at Rome be it at Constantinople be it at Rhegium be it at Alexandria be it at Tanais they are al of one woorthinesse they are al of one Bishoprike The Power of the Richesse and the basenesse of Pouertie maketh not a Bishop either Higher or Lower For they are al the Apostles Successours What bringe you me the Custome of Rome beinge but one Cittie Nowe if M. Hardinge wil steale awaie in the darke as his manner is and saie that S. Hierome spake onely of the Merite of Life or of the Office of Priesthoode sette some man telle him that this was no parte neither of the question mooued nor of the answeare of S. Hierome And S. Hierome in plaine and expresse woordes saithe Si Authoritas quaeritur If vvee seeke not for Merite of Life but for Authoritie in gouernmente therein the whole worlde is greatte then the Cittie of Rome M. Hardinge imagineth S. Hierome spake onely of I knowe no what but S. Hierome him selfe saithe he speaketh namely of Authoritie And whereas M. Hardinge is so highly offended with the chaunginge of this woorde Merite into this woorde Preeminence and saithe farther that these False Platers thought thereby to winne the game it maye please him to remember that howe so euer the game goe S. Hierome him selfe plainely plaide the selfe same game I meane that S. Hierome vsinge this woorde Merite without question meante Preeminence For thus he saithe Potentia Diuitiarum Paupertatis humilitas vel Sublimiorem vel Inferiorem Episcopum non facit The Power of Richesse and the basenesse of Pouertie maketh not a Bishop either Higher or Lower M. Hardinge mighte easily hauè seene that Higher and Lower perteine not to Merite of Life but to Preeminence Therefore lette him looke better vpon his Booke before he thus lightly condemne others for corruption I graunt it is true as M. Hardinge saithe This quarrel first beganne aboute a particulare Custome of the Churche of Rome where as the Draâ—ons Vaunted them selues and would be placed aboue the Priestes But here M. Hardinge as his manner is willingly dissembleth and suppresseth somewhat S. Augustine more liuely and fully expresseth the same For thereof he writeth thus Quidam qui nomen liabet Falcidij Duce stultitia Romanae Ciuitatis Iactantia Leuîtas Sacerdotibus Diaconos Presbyteris coaequare contendit One Falcidius Foolishnesse and the Pride of the Cittie of Rome leadinge him thereto laboureth to make the Deacons Equal with the Priestes This lewde disorder S. Hierome controlleth by the Examples of other Churches and saithe that therein the Authoritie of the whole worlde is greatter then the Authoritie of the Churche of Rome Of whiche also he seemeth to speake scornefully and with some disdeigne For thus he saithe Quid mihi profers Vnius Vrbis Consuerudinem What bringe you me the Custome of Rome beinge but One Cittie By whiche woordes it seemeth he made smal accoumpte of the Cittie of Rome But M. Hardinge saithe The Primates had Authoritie ouer other Inferiour Bishops I graunte they had so How be it thei had it by agreemente Custome But neither by Christe nor by Peter or Paule nor by any Kighte of Goddes Woorde S. Hierome saith Nouerint Episcopi se magis Consuetudine quà m Dispofitionis Dominicae Veritate Presbyteris esse Maiotes in coÌ„mune debere Ecclesiam â—egere Let Bishoppes vnderstande that they are aboue the Priestes rather of Custome theâ— of any Truthe or Right of Christes Institution and that they ought to rule the Churche al togeather And againe Idem ergo est Presbyter qui Episcopus Etantequam Diaboli instinctustudia in Religione fierent diceretur in populis Ego sum Pauli Ego Apollo Ego Cephae CoÌ„muni Presbyterorum Consilio Ecclesiae gubernabantur Therefore a Prieste and a Bishop are bothe one thinge And before that by the inflaiminge of the Diuel partes were taken in Religion and these woordes were vttered emonge the people I holde of Paule I holde of Apollo I holde of Peter the Churches were gouerned by the Common Aduise of the Priestes S. Augustine saithe Secundum honorum vocabula quae iam Ecclesiae vsus obtinuit Episcopatus Presbyterio maior est The office of a Bishop is aboue the office of a Prieste not by Authoritie of the Scriptuces but after the Names of Honour whiche the Custome of the Churche hath nowe obteined As for Pope Leo his owne Authoritie in his owne cause cannot be greate The Emperoure saithe Nemo debet sibiius dicere Noman maie minister Lowe vnto him selfe And it is noted thus in the Decrées Papa non debet esse Iudex in causa propria The Pope maie not be iudge in his owne cause It is wel knowen that the Pope hath sought for and claimed this Vniuersal Authoritie these many hundred yeeres Pope Innocentius was therefore reprooued of Pride and worldly Lordlinesse by the whole Councel of Aphrica Pope Bonifacius 2. condemned â— Augustine al the saide whole Councel of Aphrica called them al Heretiques and Schismatiques for the same and said they were al leadde by the Diuel Pope Zosimus to mainteine this claime corrupted the Holy Councel of Nice S. Hilarie and other Learned Bishoppes of France for vsurpinge sutche vnlawful Authoritie charged this same Pape Leo of whom we speake with Pride and Ambition But gentle Reader that thou maâ—ste the better vnderstande what credite thou oughtest to geue to this Pope Leo specially settinge foorthe his owne Authoritie I beséethe thée consider with what Maiestie of woordes and howe far aboue measure he auanceth the Authoritie of S. Peter These be his woordes Christus Petrum in Consortium Indiuiduae Vnitatis assumpsit Christe receiued Peter into the Companie of the Indiuisible Vnitie Authoritate Domini mei Petri Apostoli By the Authoritie not of Christe but of my Lorde Peter the Apostle Deo Inspirante Beatissimo Petro Apostolo By the Inspiration of God and of S. Peter the Apostle Deus à Petro velut à quodam Capite dona sua velut in Corpus omne diffudit God froÌ„ Peter as from the Heade hath powred cut his giftes into al the Body Nihil erit ligatum aut solutum nisi quod Petrus ligauerit aut soluerit There shal be nothinge bounde or loosed but that Peter shal binde or loose Nunc quoque Petrus pascit Oues
Doctrine did Shaxtonâ— did Campegius did Bishop Audley Briefly did euer any Bishop of that See before you teache your Doctrine It is moste certaine they did not If you cannot shewe your Bishoply Petigree if you can proue no Succession then whereby holde you VVil you shewe vs the Letters Patentes of the Prince VVel may they stande you in some steede before men before God who shal cal you to accoumpt for preswninge to take the Highest office in his Churche not duely called thereto they shal serue you to no propose You know what Tertullian saithe of sutch as ye be EdaÌ„t Origines Ecclesiarum suarum c. VVe saye likewise to you M. Iewel and that we saye to you we saye to eche one of your Companions Tel vs the Original and firste springe of your Churche She we vs the Register of your Bishoppes continually succedinge one an other from the beginninge so as that firste Bishop haue some one of the Apostles or of the Apostolike men for his Authour and Predecessour For by this waye the Apostolike Churches shewe what reputation they be of As the Churche of Smyrnae telleth vs of Polycarpe by Iohn the Apostle placed there The Churche of the Romaines telleth vs of Clement ordeined by Peter S. Augustine hauinge reckened vp in order the Bishoppes of Rome to An astasius Successour to Siricius who was the Eighte and thirteth after Peter saithe that in al that Number and rolle of Bishoppes there is not founde One that was a Donatisie and thereof he concludeth Ergo the Donatistes be not Catholikes So after that wee haue reckened al the Bishoppes of Salisburie from Bishop Capon vpwarde we shal come at length in respecte of Doctrine and Orders to S. Augustine the Apostle of the Englishe who was made Bishop by Gregorie and from Gregorie vpwarde to S. Peter And in al that rewe of Bishops wee shal finde neuer a one that beleued as M. Iewel beleueth Ergo your Zwinglian and Caluinian Belefe M. Iewel and of the rest of your felowes is not Catholike Therefore to go from your Succession whiche ye cannot proue and to come to your Vocation how saie you Syr You beare your selfe as though you were Bishop of Salisburie But howe can you proue your Vocation By what Authoritie Vsurpe you the Administration of Doctrine and Sacramentes VVhat can you alleage for the right and Proufe of your Ministerie who hathe called you VVho hathe laide handes on you By what example hathe he done it Howe and by whom are you consecrated VVho hathe sent you VVho hathe committed to you thâ—ffice you take vpon you Be you a Prieste or be you not If you be no â–ª how dare you Vsurpe the name and Office of a Bishop If you be tel vs who gaue you Orders The Institution of a Prieste was neuer yet but in the Power of a Bishop Bishoppes haue alwaies after the Apostles time accordinge to the Ecclesiastical Canons ben consecrated by three other Bishoppes with the consente of the Metropolitane and confirmation * of the Bishop of Rome Macarius a Prieste of Athanasius as it was laide to his Charge by his accusers pulled Ischyras froÌ„ the Aulâ—ar as he was at Masse ouerthrew the Holy Table brake the Chalice The matter brought to iudgement Athanasius and those Bishops both denied the facte and also though it were graunted yet defended the same as wel done because Ischyras was not a lawful Minister of the Churche And why so bicause he was not lawfully made Prieste nor with Churchely laieing on of handes coÌ„secrated By which example besides other pointes wee are taught what to iudge of your pretensed CoÌ„munion Againe what saye you to Epiphanius who writeth againste one Zacchaeus of his time for that beinge but a Laye man with wicked Presumption tooke vpon him to * handle the Holy Mysteries and rashely to do the office of a Prieste Hereof S. Hierome saâ—the not ably Hilarius cùm Diaconus de Ecclesia recesserit c. Hilary for asmutche as he went from the Churche beinge a Deacon and is onely as he thinketh the multitude of the worlde can neither consecrate the Sacramente of Th aulter beinge without Bishops and Priestes nor deliuer Baptisme without the â—uchariste And whereas nowe the man is deade with the man also the secte is ended because beinge a Deacon he coulde not consecrate any Clerke that shoulde remaine after him And Churche is there none whiche hath not a Prieste But lettinge goe these fewe of litle regarde that to them selues be bothe Laie and Bishoppes listen what is to be thought of the Churche Thus S. Hierome there In whome leauinge other thinges I note that if there be no Churche where is no Prieste VVhere is your Churche like to become after that our Apostates that nowe be fledde from vs to you shal be departed this Life Therefore this beinge true it remaineth M. Iewel you tel vs whether your Vocation be Ordinarie or Extraordinarie If it be Ordinarie shewe vs the letters of your Orders At least shewe vs that you haue receiued Power to doo the Office you presume to exercise by due order of laieinge on of handes and Consecration But Order and Consecration you haue not For who coulde geue that to you of al these Newe Ministers how so euer els you cal them whiche he hath not him selfe If it be Extraordinarie as al that ye haue done hitherto is besides al good Order shewe vs some Signe or Miracle If you faile in al these why ought not you to be put awaie Finally what can you answeare to that whiche maye be obiected to you out of S. Cyprians Epistle to Magnus touchinge Nouatian It was at those daies a question whether Nouatian Baptized and offered specially where as he vsed the Forme Maner and Ceremonies of the Churche Cyprian denieth it For he can not saithe he be compred a Bishop who settinge at nought the Tradition of the Gospel and of the Apostles Nemini succedens à seipso ordinatus est Succedinge no man is ordeined Bishop of him selfe For by no meanes maye one haue or holde a Churche that is not ordeined in the Churche This beinge so we doo you no wronge as ye complaine in tellinge you and declaringe to the VVorlde that touchinge the exercise of your Ministerie ye doo nothinge orderly or comely but al thinges troublesomely and without Order Onlesse ye meane suche Order and comelinesse as Theeues obsâ—rue amonge them selues in the distribution of their Robberies Lastly if ye allowe not euery man yea and euery VVoman to be a Prieste why driue ye not some of your felowes to recante that so haue Preached VVhy allow ye the Bookes of your Newe Euangelistes that so haue written The B. of Sarisburie Here hath M. Hardinge taken some paines more then ordinarie He thought if he coulde by any coloure make the worlde beléeue wee haue neither Bishoppes nor Priestes
Touchinge Pius In Platina ye shal finde these wordes for one of that Popes saieinges Sacerdoâ—ibus magna ratione sublatas nuptias maiori restituendas videri As mutche to saie in English that Marriage was taken from Priestes with greate reason and that it semed it were to be restoared againe with greater This saieinge reporteth not that VViues were taken a waie from Priestes as you reporte neither that VViues ought to be restored to Priestes againe It speaketh onely of Marriage whiche as before a man enter into Holy Orders no Vowe beinge made is lawful so by orders taken a Vowe of chastâ—tie beinge solemly made is vtterly vnlawful If this saieinge had made so mutche for your pretensed Marriage as ye would men to beleue ye would neuer haue falsified it by sutch chauÌ„ge of woordes VVhether is be more expedient sutche as come to the clergy to be required to leade the Single life and to bind themselues thereto by Vowes or to enioie the common libertie of Mariage that we leaue to the Churche to discusse and order If Pius sawe many weightier causes for Priestes to haue VViues then for theire Single Life as ye pretende he did why did not he or you in his steede shewe vs what and how substantial they be If they be no better then you and your felowes haue vttered in your Sermons and wâ—tâ—inges hitherto they are not wortheâ—a Pipt nootte This saieing of Pius is wel to be weighed and scanned The B. of Sarisburie Who so euer shal wel consider the Fruites that haue growen of this trée maie easily iudge by whom it was planted Certainely S. Paule when he had géeuen rules touching the Cleregie that Bishoppes Deacons should be the Husbandes of One Wife immediately afterwarde in the same tenoure course of Speache saith thus The Sprite saithe plainely that in later times somme shal departe from the 〈◊〉 geeuinge eare vnto lieinge Sprites and to the Doctrine of Diuels vttering lies vnder Hypocrisie hauing theire Conscience burnte with a hote yron and therby made vnsensible Forebiddinge Marriage c. But M. Hardinge saithe there is no Lawe in the Churche to restraine Marriage and that Marriage is not nowe condemned by him and other of that side thought vnlawful Vniuersally in al menne for that he saithe was the Heresie of Valentinus Marcion Montanus and others but onely forebidden and thought vnlawful in a fewe By this answeare M. Harding maie séeme to make him selfe sommewhat better then was Valentinus and Marcion and other Olde Heretiques But further to healpe him and thorowly to cleare his Doctrine it wil not serue It is a CommoÌ„ knowen rule in yâ— Scholes Magis Minùs non mutant SpecieÌ„ Verily as he that killeth but a fewe menne is called a Mankiller Euen so he that Condemneth Marriage in a fewe muste likewise be called a Condemner of Marriage Neither dooth S. Paule when he prophesieth hereof say that somme should Condemne al kinde of Marriage Vniuersally in al manner of Menne but onely he saithe There shal be somme that shal forebidde Marriage Neither did al Heretiques Condemne Marriage in one sorte For somme of them condemned it Generally and thorowly and altogeather Somme others of them Condemned it onely in a fewe euen as M. Hardinge and his Felowes doo For thus S. Augustine writeth of the Heretiques named the Manichées Auditores qui appellantur apud eos Carnibus vescuntur agros colunt si voluerint Vxores habent Quorum nihil faciunt illi qui vocantur Electi Thei that emonge them be called Hearers doo bothe eate Pleashe and tille the grownde and Marrie Wiues too if they liste But no sutche thing maie they doo that be called Electi The Auditores or Hearers emonge the Manichées were as the laie people The Electi or Chosen were as the Cleregie These Heretiques the Manichées Condemned Marriage not generally in al sortes and degrées of menne but onely as M. Hardinge doothe in a fewe Yet were they Heretiques notwithstandinge and theire Doctrine was the Doctrine of Diuels S. Augustine saithe vnto them as he woulde also saie vnto M. Hardinge Non Concubitum sed vt longè antè ab Apostolo dictum est Verè Nuptias prohibetis Ye forebidde not Copulation or Cocubines But euen as the Apostle Prophesied loÌ„g before Verily and in deede ye forebidde Marriage Albeit it were but in a few All this M. Hardinge notwithstanding that it maie plainely appeare whoe 's Doctrine ye teache it shal be good and not form the pourpose briefely to disclose somme parte of it And here to passe ouer these woordes of Chrysostome Haec ipsa Coniunctio Maritalis malum est ante Deum This very Copulation of Man and VVife is euil before God And these of S. Hierome Quà m diu impleo Mariti officium non impleo officium Christiani As longe as I doo the de wtie of a Husband I doo not the devvtie of a Christian and other like Saieinges and Authorities before alleged Pope Innocentius in yâ— Condemnation of Marriage saithe thus Qui in Carne sunt Deo placere non possunt They that be in the Fleashe that is to saie in Marriage cannot please God And to this pourpose he allegeth these woordes of S. Paule To yâ— Cleane al thinges are Cleane But to the filthy and Infidelles wherby the same Innocentius vnderstandeth Married people nothinge is Cleane But boothe theire minde and theire Conscience is defiled Pope Siricius calleth Marriage Virium Luxuriam Foedas Cupiditates Vice Lecherie end Filthy Lustes One of your late Englishe Doctours of Louaine saith that the whole Easte Churche mainteining the lawful Marriage of Priestes euermore continewed there from the Apostles time vntil this daye mainteineth and contineweth a Schole of Filthinesse Further you maie remember that this rule is written in a Booke of your owne Doctrine and is geuen in Secrete as a Special Lesson vnto your Cleregie Si non Castè tamen cautè If thou deale not Chastely yet deale not Charily From whence had you this Doctrine M. Hardinge who set it firste abroche who taught it who coÌ„firmed it who allowed it If ye can say it is not yâ— Doctrine of the Diuel Yet verily I beléeue ye cannot saie it is in any pointe like the Doctrine of God S. Hierome hauinge occasion to speake of Antichriste saith thus Simulabit Castiratem vt plurimos decipiat He shal make a countrefeite shewe of Chastitie that he maie deceiue many Euen so S. Paule saith Habentes Speciem Pietatis Virtutem autem eius abnegantes Hauinge a colour of Godlinesse but the Power therof denieing vtterly But sommewhat to reliue your selfe ye allege these woordes of S. Augustine Ille prohibet Matrimonium Matrimonium qui illud Malum esse dicit non qui huic Bono aliud melius anteponit He forebiddeth Marriage that saithe Marriage is Euil and not he that before this thinge beinge Good
Pambus and many other Holy men liuinge in VVildernesse without letters no reste ne quiet at their hartes Nay who had the like And whereas you saie that al thinges needeful for our Saluation be abundantly and fully cōprehended in the Scriptures this is also as false as sundry other partes of your Doctrine For if al thinges necessary to Saluation be conteined in the Scriptures then what so euer is not in them conteined the same is not necessarie If not necessarie why shoulde we be laden with vnnecessarie burdens Then awaie with al Traditions at a clappe be they neuer so Apostolike neuer so Auncient neuer so Healthful neuer so longe time in the Churche continued Remember you not what the moste renoumed Fathers haue written of the necessitie of Traditions Or if you remember them what thought you when you wrote thus Let Learned and Holy Basil be hearde in steede of many if not to reuoke you from your errour yet to discredite you and staye others in the truthe His woordes be these Of the doctrines whiche be preached in the Churche certaine we haue out of the Scripture written certaine we haue receiued in secrete Mistery by tradition of the Apostles whiche bothe be of equal force to Godlines Neither concerninge these any man gainesaieth be he of neuer so smal knowledge For if we goe about to reiect the customes that be not set foorth in writinge as beinge of litle regarde then shal we condemne those thinges also whiche we haue in the Gospel necessarie to Saluation Yea rather we shal bringe the preachinge of the Faithe but to a bare name For so they were taken for Heretikes whiche regarded not the solemne faste of Lente receiued at the Apostles as we reade in S. Augustine De Haer. ad Quoduultdeum cap. 53. and in the Councel of Gangra in an Epistle to the Bishops of Armenia Euen so they whiche denied the distinction of a Bishop and a Prieste were condemned of Heresie as we finde in S. Augustine in the Booke and Chapter aforesaide and in Epiphanius Lib. 3. Cap. 75. In the Councel of Constance the same is to be founde Againe if al thinges necessarie to Saluation be expressed in the Scriptures to what purpose saide S. Paule concerninge order and maner to be vsed at the celebration of the holy Sacramente Coetera cùm venero disponam As for other thinges I wil take Order for them when I come VVhat meaneth S. Iohn to saye Hauinge other thinges to write to you of I woulde not write them in Paper and inke for I truste to be with you and speake to you mouthe to mouthe To conclude muche that might be obiected in fewe woordes for breuities sake what saie you sir Defender shal we finde al thinges necessarie to Saluation in the Scripture Howe thinke you of the Scripture it selfe How knowe you this to be the Scripture How knowe ye the Gospel of Mathewe Marke Luke and Iohn to be theirs whose names they beare This can you not finde in al the Scripture and yet is the same necessary to be beleeued VVhat Scripture have you to admitte these and to refuse the Booke bearinge the name of Peter the Gospel of Thomas of Bartholome we of Nicodeme VVhy admitte you not the Prophetes that Basilides would to be allowed but onely the foure greate and the twelue lesser what auctoritie haue you to staie your selfe by concerninge these but onely that of the Churche for Scripture haue you none for proufe hereof Then hath not Scripture al thinges in it necessarie for a Christen man Is it not necessarie to beleeue the Sonne of God to be Homousion that is to saie of the same Substance with the Father whiche if you denie you restore the olde condemned Heresie of the Arians The same can you not finde in the Scripture VVhere in al the Bible finde you that God the Father is Ingenitus VVhere finde you that the Holy Ghoste proceedeth frō the Father and the Sonne that the blessed Virgin Marie continued in her Virginitie that suche as be Baptized of Heretikes oughte to be Baptized againe That in fantes ought to be Baptized That the Foure Bookes of the Gospels were written by Mathewe Marke Luke and Iohn by what Scripture can you prooue it To ende where finde you expressely in al the Scriptures three Persons to be one God The B. of Sarisburie Here to weighe downe the Authoritie of Goddes Holy Woorde M. Hardinge hath brought in a heape of ordinarie stale quarrelles Of the difference bitwéene Priestes and Bishoppes of Lente of the Communion Booke of the Homilies of the Order of Seruice and of the Perpetual Virginitie of Our Lady His whole drifte herein is to beare vs in hande that there is very litle or none Authoritie in the Scriptures and that the whole Credite and certainetie of our Faithe resteth onely in the Churche of Rome He seemeth to take it in scorne that the Woorde of God shoulde be called the Light Yet notwithstandinge the Prophete Dauid saithe Thy Woorde is a Lanterne to my feete And againe The Commaundement of the Lorde is Lightsome geeuing Light vnto the eies And Theophylacte saith Verbum Dei est Lucerna qua Fur deprehenditur The Woorde of God is the Candel whereby ther Theefe or false Teacher is espied Whereas M. Hardinge demaundeth of vs so pleasauntly what Scriptures we allowe and what wée reiecte he troubleth him selfe with an idle and a néedelesse question For we embrace and reuerence euery parcel and title of the Scriptures without exception not refusinge any parte thereof that hath benne allowed by the Ancient Learned Catholique Fathers of the Churche of God Neither doo wee so scornefully calle Goddes Holy Woorde a Nose of vvaxe a Shipmannes Hose or a Dead letter as sundrie of that side haue delited to cal it Touchinge the Booke of the Machabees wee saie nothinge but that we finde written by S. Hierome S. Augustine other Holy Fathers S. Hierome saithe Machabaeorum Libros legit quidem Ecclesia Sed eos inter Canonicas Scripturas non recipit In deede the Churche readeth the Bookes of the Machabees but shee receiueth them not emonge the Canonical allovved Scriptures Or Praier for y◠Dead wee shal haue place more conuenient to speake hereafter The place of S. Iames touchinge the Iustification of Faithe Woorkes is answeared before Neither doo wee discredite any parte either of the Authoritie or of the Doctrine of that whole Epistle notwithstandinge Eusebius saithe It was written by somme other and not by S. Iames. His woordes be these Istius Iacobi qui lustus Oblias vocabatur dicitur esse Epistola quae prima scribitur inter Canonicas Sciendum autem est illam Epistolam esse Spuriam The Opinion is that the Epistle whiche is reckened the firste emonge the Canonicalles is of this Iames whiche was called Iustus and Oblias But wee muste vnderstande that
theire Forged Quodammodò corrupted the sounde and Catholique Doctrine of the Churche Woulde ye rather for the better facinge and colouringe of your Doctrine wée shoulde strike oute this Forged Quodammodò and amende it thus Qui manducat me Reipsa Miscetur mihi transelementatur in me Woulde ye haue vs to beléeue that wee are wholy and thorowly changed into Christes Body and that wée are made very Christe God and Man the same that was borne of the Virgine and nailed to the Crosse and that not Quodammodò after a sorte or by somme peculiare phrase of speache but Substantially Really Verily and in déede I recken your Doctrine is not fully so fonde S. Paule saithe Sumus alter alterius Membra VVee are Members one of an other Cyrillus saithe Nos inter nos vnimur Corporaliter Wee are Corporally vnited togeather emonge our selues S. Chrysostome saithe Si quis exuat impudicarum mulierum animas videbit malum Daemonem illis admixtum If a man wil open the Soules of Vnchaste or Filthy Wemen he shal see the Diuel tempered togeather and mingled with them And thinke you M. Hardinge that these and other like speaches of the Holy Fathers cannot stande without your Transubstantiation and Real Presence Or that the Godly be Substantially and in déede in theire Bodies ioined togeather Or that the Vngodly be verily vnited and mingled with the Diuel You might rather haue remembred that touchinge this vnspeakeable Vnitie bitwéene Christe and the Faitheful that is to saie bitwéene the Heade and the Body S. Cyprian writeth thus Nostra Christi Coniunctio nec miscet Personas nec vnit Substantias sed affectus consociat confoederat voluntates The Coniunction that is bitweene vs and Christe neither mingleth Personnes nor vniteth Substances but ioineth affections and knitteth vvilles Likewise saithe S. Cyril Initium fundamentum in Sanctificatione Christus est Per Fidem scilicet non aliter Hoc enim modo in nobis habitat The Beginninge and Fundation of our Holinesse is Christe By Faithe I meane and none othervvise For in this sorte Christe dwelleth in vs. Likewise Lyra one of your owns late Doctours In quantum per Sacramentum Eucharistiae unimur Deo viuimus Spiritualiter Nostra autem vnio apud ipsum est per Fidem Dilectionem So far foorth as wee are vnited vnto God by the Sacramente of Thankesgeeuinge wee liue Spiritually But the Vnion that is bitvveene him and vs is by Faithe and loue And expoundinge these woordes of S. Paule Qui adhaeret Deo vnus Spiritus est He that eleueth vnto God is one Sprite with God He saithe Vnus non secundum rem sed secundum affectionem One Sprite with God not One in deede or accordinge to the Truthe but One in Loue or accordinge to affection And yet somme what farther to remoue you from your fantaste of your Real Presence S. Chrysostome saithe as he is alleged before Dominum ipsum amplecteris cum illo commisceris subuectus Coniungeris Corpori illi quod sursum sedet in Coelis Thou embraceste the Lorde him selfe thou arte tempered with him and beinge carried vp by Faithe and affection thou arte ioined with that Body that fitteth in Heauen In like sense saithe Leo Christus ineffabili modi coepit esse Diuinitate Praesentior qui factus est Humanitate loginquior Christe by vnspeakable meanes beganne to be the neare to vs by his Diuinitie the further he is made from vs by his Humanitie I doubte not M. Harding but ye maye easily sée that hitherto your Real Presence is but weakely proued M. Hardinge Againe we maruel with what face ye dare allege Theophylacte for you who in moste euident woordes ouerthroweth your figuratiue tropical and energical Doctrine touchinge this blessed Sacramente For he saith vppon this sixthe Chapter of S. Iohn Marke wel that the Breade whiche is eaten of vs in the Mysteries is not onely a certaine Figure of our Lordes Fleash but the Fleash it selfe of our Lorde For he saide not the Breade that I shal geue is the Figure of Fleashe but it is my Fleashe For the Breade is with secrete woordes through the Mystical blessinge and comminge vppon of the Holy Ghoste changed into the Fleashe of our Lorde The B. of Sarisburie Theophylacte saithe The Breade is not onely a certaine Figure of our Lordes Fleashe but the Fleashe it selfe of our Lorde This Obiection in my Former Replie is many where 's answeared Wée graunte The Breade is not a bare or a naked Figure but by waie of Sacramente or Mysterie it is the Body of Christe it selfe So the Water of Baptisme is not an emptie Figure of the Bloude of Christe but it is Christes Bloude it selfe bicause it is the Sacramente of Christes Bloude And therefore S. Bernarde saithe Lauemur in Sanguine eius Let vs be wasshed not in Water but in the Bloude of Christe S. Augustine geueth this general Rule as I haue often reported In Sacramentis videndum est non quid sint sed quid Significent In Sacramentes wee muste consider not vvhat thei be in substāce nature but vvhat thei Signifie Tertullian saith Christus acceptum Panem Discipulis suis distributum Corpus suum illum Fecit dicēdo Hoc est Corpus meum hoc est Figura Corporis mei Christe hauing taken the Breade and hauinge deliuered the same to his Disciples Made it his Body saieinge This is my Body That it to saie This is a Figure of my Body And to appointe a corruptible Creature to this vse and to make it an effectual instrumente of sutche high and Hidden Mysteries it is not the Woorke of any mortal man but the onely Power and woorkinge of the Holy Ghoste as it shal farther appeare in the nexte Clause in mine answeare to the woordes of S. Ambrose beda saithe thus Panis Vini Creatura in Sacramentum Carnis Sāguinis Christi ineffabili Spiritus sanctificatione transfertur The Creature of Breade and Wine by the vnspeakeable Sanctification of the Holy Ghoste is changed not into the very Real Body and Bloude but into the Sacramente of the Body and Bloude of Christe M. Hardinge Neither Maketh S. Ambrose whiche also ye bringe in any better for you VVoulde God ye woulde admitte him for Vmpeere in this pointe Verily in the booke and chapter that ye referre vs vnto he disputeth as it were of pourpose againste you as though he foresawe the time when the Churche shoulde be troubled with the Heresie of Sacramentaries Tu fortè dicis c. Perhappes thou sayest My Breade is common But this Breade is Breade before the woordes of the Sacramentes so soone as consecration commeth of Breade is made the Fleashe of Christe Let vs then auouche this howe that whiche is Breade maye be the Body of Christe By Consecration Then with what woordes and speaches is consecration made Euen with those of our
thinge of an other Substance If ye haue an Authour why comme you without him If it be onely of your selfe why should wée beléeue you If Aliud signifie onely a Substance and nothinge els why doothe S. Augustine saie as it is before alleged Sacramenta sunt Signa terum Aliud existentia aliud Significantia Why saithe S. Augustine againe Aliud est Sacramentum Aliud Virtus Sacramenti Why saithe S. Ambrose Aliud est Elementum Aliud Consecratio For by your Diuinitie the Sacramente the Fourme the Consecration be Accidentes onely and maie not be taken for the Substance Verily for ought that I can learne Aliud is nothinge els but Res alia an other thinge whether it be the Substance or the Accidente For I thinke ye haue no◠forgotten the Olde rule Vnumquodque in suo genere est quid Wée saie The Nature and Substance of the Breade Wine is not clearely changed or cōsumed into Nothinge as many haue dreamed in these later daies Here M. Hardinge commeth roughly in as his manner is and saithe ye belie vs vvee saie not so God forebid Thus he crieth out before he be striken Salomon saithe Impius fugit nemine persequente The gilty fleeth before he be chased For notwithstandinge there be multitudes of folies in his Doctrine yet with this folie wée charge him not But whether any of his Felowes haue so saide or no I reporte me to his Maister Peter Lombarde His woordes be these Quid ergo fit de Substantia Panis Vini Illi dicunt vel in praeiacentem materiam resolui vel in nihilum redigi What then becommeth of the Substance of the Breade and VVine They saie either that it is resolued into the mater that was before or els that it is consumed into nothinge Mary God forebid saithe M. Hardinge So coye and careful he is for his holy Fourmes and his kingedome of Accidentes He saithe The whole Substance of the Breade is cleane abolished not one parte thereof remaininge yet maie it not be turned into nothinge And as if the mater were wel woorthe somewhat be assureth the same sadly with a greate detestation God forebid Hereof somethinge might be saide if it were any thinge woorthe the hearinge But good Reader thou shalt lose nothinge by the silence For I assure thée verily it is woorthe nothinge Yet M. Hardinge firste geueth vs his courteous menti and afterwarde in his familiar manner chargeth vs by plaine termes with a lie and suddainely crieth out as he saith beyonde the modestie of his natural disposition What is Iuggsinge what is Lieinge what is Falsehedde what is Falsifieinge what is wickednesse of Falsaries if this be not I might saie O Sirs Holde the man Good Christian Reader in al these Whattes thou wilte happily thinke there should be somewhat Now be it in déede it is but a pangue of M. Hardinges Rhetorique leste thou shouldest thinke that hauinge spente so many waste woordes in the ende he had saide nothinge But what is the mater M. Hardinge What moueth you to make this piteous outcrie For soothe bicause wée saie The Breade and VVine remaine the same they were before But these be S. Ambroses owne woordes they be not ours wée make them not wée change them not but reporte them simply as wée finde them As they were written in Latine by the Authour these they are Panis Vinum sunt quae erant in aliud mutantur The Breade and VVine are the same that they vvere and are changed into an other thinge Therefore it appeareth al these Exclamations of vvhat is lugglinge vvhat is Lieinge c. perteine vnto S. Ambrose the Authoure hereof and not vnto vs. Nowe for so mutche as it hath pleased M. Hardinge so earnestly to calle vs foorthe to construe him these vvoordes I beséeche thée good Reader marke wel what Constructions he and his Felowes haue imagined fansied vpon the same Firste of al Lanfrancus the chiefest Champion of that side thought it the wisest waie vtterly to denie these woordes and to saie They were neuer written by S. Ambrose For thus he stormeth against Berengarius O mentem amentem O hominem impudenter mentientem O puniendam temeritatem Ambrosium accire testem praesumis quòd Panis Vinum Altaris per Consecrationem non definant esse quoderant sed commutentur in aliud quod non erant Et quidem si de Sacramentis seu de coeteris de quibus Ambrosius scripsit omnes reuoluat Libros quos Ecclesia in vsu nunc habet tale quid ab Ambrosio dictum taliterque expositum nusquam repetire valebit O madde minde O impudent Lier O rashenesse woorthy of pounishement Darest thou to allege S. Ambrose for a witnesse that the Breade and Wine of the Aultar leaue not by Consecration to be that they were before but are changed into an other thinge that they were not Nowe truely if he peruse al the Bookes that S. Ambrose hath written either of the Sacramentes or of other maters I meane sutche Bookes as the Churche hath no we in vse he shal neuer finde any thinge so vvritten by S. Ambrose and so expounded But M Hardinge thought he might not wel thus doo without empeachement of his modestie For the very same woordes are to be founde extante apparent in euery Booke Therefore allowinge the woordes he thought it beste to folowe his Maister Peter à Soto and to delaie qualifie the same with some Construction Thus therefore he saithe Sunt quae erant in aliud mutantur Doothe it not folowe by good Logike Mutata sunt ergo sunt They be changed Ergo they be In Louaine perhaps In other Vniuersities I doubte whether it haue hitherto benne allowed or no. For by this Logique where as S. Hierome saithe Superbia mutata est in Humilitatem M. Hardinge maie conclude as he doothe nowe Superbia mutata est Ergo est Pride is changed into Humilitie Ergo Pride is or remaineth stil And whereas S. Paule saithe Commutauerunt Veritatem Dei in mendacium By this Logique M. Hardinge maie saie Mutata est Ergo est The Truthe of God is changed into a Lie Ergo It is Goddes Truthe stil notwithstandinge And to take further viewe of M. Hardinges Construction thus he saithe Panis Vinum sunt quae erant id est qualia erant The Breade and VVine be in Substance the same that they were that is to saie They be in qualities or Accidentes as they were They are changed in Aliud into an other thinge that is Into an other Substance Thei are Changed that is Thei are Transubstantiate They be that is They be not That they vvere that is that they vvere not Thus Substance is Accidens Accidens is Substance Beinge is not Beinge Not Beinge is Beinge Remaininge is not Remaininge Changinge is not Changinge And the same thinge is not the same With sutche prety Constructions M. Hardinge can teache vs
hauinge that Auctoritie ouer you whiche Festus had ouer S. Paule To Augustine ye referre this mater and by Augustine shall ye be iudged I woulde alleage vnto you sundrie places of the Scriptures whiche maie Sufficiently proue Purgatorie to a Christen man that is not contentious but that wil we doo hereafter as occasion serueth Nowe to Saincte Augustine VVe saie plainely that S. Augustine affirmeth Purgatorie and that it cannot be shewed where he doubteth of it mutche lesse where he vtterly denyeth any sutche to be In sundry places of his woorkes he expoundeth the woordes of S. Paule to the Corinthians of Purgatorie where the Apostle saithe that the woorkes whiche be builded vpon the fundation whiche is Christe shal be tried by Fire In the 21. Booke de Ciuitate Dei after that he hathe declared his iudgemente touchinge paines of diuerse sortes whiche men suffer for Sinnes committed he saithe thus But paines temporal some suffer in this life onely some after theire Death some both now and also then yet before that moste seuere and laste iudgemente May it therefore please you Syrs to reade S. Augustine in some sutche places for to reade al that he hathe written to that ende were very mutche and a greate lette to your domestical cares and I thinke verily ye wil secretly agree in iudgemente with vs thoughe for shame and consideration of the stage ye plaie your parte on openly the same ye wil not confesse And therefore in his booke de Haeresibus ad Quoduultdeum he condemneth Aërius of Haeresie and so consequently al others that be of his opinion because to the Heresies of the Arians he had added this also that none ought to praie or make oblation for the deade VVhere ye make S. Augustine very vncertaine in this pointe as though he saide sommetime there is sutche a certain place sometime there maie be sutche a one sometime he doubted of it sometime plainely denied any sutche to be either ye vnderstande not S. Augustine or ye saie contrary to your owne knowledge Verily ye be too bolde with him Firste that he denieth Purgatory that is false And where ye alleage Hypognostica in the margent of your booke reade it once againe at my request and your selues wil saie the place proueth not your purpose The Author of that woorke whether he were S. Augustine whiche Erasmus beleueth not or who so euer he was denieth not Purgatory but that after the daie of general iudgemente there is any place of Euerlastinge rest or paine but the Kingdome of Heauen and Hel that he denieth VVhiche we also denie And there he speaketh againste the Pelagians who as S. Augustine writeth of them ad Quoduultdeum promised to infantes dyinge without Baptisme a certaine euerlastinge and blessed life without and besides the Kingedome of God VVhiche Heresie in sundry places he reproueth It seemeth the woorde Purgatorium noted in the margent of that booke by thunlearned Printer begiled you VVhiche sheweth howe profoundely ye be seene in the Doctores The thinge he doubted of touchinge this matter is this VVhether those temporal paines do onely punishe for the Satisfaction of the Iustice of God or also do purge and correcte the soules of the deade in sutche wise as temporal paines are wont to do in this life But nowe whether the smarte and sorowe of thinges lefte behinde whiche proceded in this life of Carnal affection remaine also to the soules after theire departure from the Body whereof S. Augustine sheweth him selfe to stande in doubte in Enchiridio ad Laurent cap. 68. 69. and whether the fyre whiche soules feele in Purgatory as it paineth them so also do by degrees diminishe and correcte those venial and Secular affections whiche they carried with them at theire Deathe or whether deathe it selfe do so ende them as there remaine not any correction of the minde yet beinge vicious but onely the punishemente of the sinne paste that is the thinge whereof S. Augustine semeth to haue doubted In effecte his question is whether the Fire of Purgatorie be not double The one whiche punisheth the Venial sinne past the other whiche diminisheth and taketh awaie thaffection of sinne yet remaininge Of the firste he doubteth not of the other he saith non redargno quia forsitan verum est I saye not againste it for per aduenture it is true The B. of Sarisburie Wée raite at you M. Hardinge euen as Christe railed at certaine others in whoe 's steppes ye séeme to treade for that they had made of the House of God a Caue of theeues The places of the Scriptures whiche ye thought it beste to passe ouer and whereby your Purgatorie by your iudgemente vndoubtedly maie be proued if a man be not very contentious I trowe be these Verily Verily I saie vnto you he that heareth my Woorde and beleeueth in him that sente me hath Euerlastinge Life and shal not comme into damnation but hathe passed from Deathe vnto Life Or that Esai the Prophete saithe of Christe He was wounded for our transgressions He was broken for our iniquities The chastisemente of our Peace was vpon him and with his stripes wee were made whole Or that S. Paule saith Christe hath taken the Obligation that was againste vs and hathe fastened it vnto his Crosse Or that S. Iohn saith Blessed be the Deade that die in the Lorde Euen so saithe the Sprite For they reste from theire laboures and theire Woorkes folowe them He saithe not they be in Purgatorie but they reste from theire Laboures And againe They shal hunger nomore They shal thirste nomore For the Lambe whiche is in the middes of the throne shal gouerne them and shal leade them not into Purgatorie but vnto the liuely Fountaines of VVaters and God shal wipe a waie al teares from theire eies These or sutche other like Places I trowe they be whereby ye assure your selfe so certainely of your Purgatorie But vnto S. Augustine wée haue appealed and to S. Augustine ye saie wée shal goe Howe be it if ye consider the mater wel ye shal finde that our appeale liethe not vnto S. Augustine It had benne more indiâ—ferente dealinge to haue saide with S. Bernarde Ad Euangelium appellasti ad Euangelium ibis Ye haue appealed vnto the Gospel and vnto the Gospel ye shal goe As for S. Augustine notwithstandinge his Authoritie be greate and his learninge deepe yet in these cases as it shal wel appeare he can be but a doubteful Iudge And a doubteful Iudge so far foorthe as he doubteth is no Iudge Your owne Canon telleth you In erroris Labyrinthum nonnulli intricando impingunt cùm ante iudicant quà m intelligant Many menne geuinge Iudgemente before they can vnderstande by entanglinge them selues fal into a Maze of errour For howe can he pronounce sentence of that he confesseth he knoweth not Or how can he assure vs that
mutche that your paper blusshed not in your behalfe Reade his Bookes throughout and consider the quiet gouernement bothe of the Common Wealthes and also of the Churches of Germanie and ye shal finde that noman euer neither by woorde nor by example more auaunced the Authoritie of the Ciuile Magistrate To leaue al other his notable Sentences to this pourpose againste the Rebelles of whom ye speake beinge then in the fielde againste theire Lordes he wrote thus God commaundeth al menne vniuersally to obeie the Magistrate with feare and reuerence c. Againe Ye take the Swerde and withstande the Magistrate vvhom God hath appointed Is not this rashly to abuse the Name of God But he saithe Emonge Christians neither maie be nor ought to be any Magistrate O M. Hardinge nothinge coulde haue founde faulte herewith but onely intemperate and mere malice For Luther speaketh not these woordes of the outwarde Ciuile Gouernement but onely of our Inwarde Bande and Obedience towardes God And in this respecte there is no Kinge or Prince in déede nor maie be any In this sense S. Paule saithe There is no levve there is no Gentile There is no Lorde there is no Seruaunte There is no Man there is no VVooman For al you are one in Christe Jesu S. Paule denieth not but Ievve Gentile Lorde Seruaunte Man and VVooman remaine stil in theire seueral states and kindes as they were before But in Christe Iesu he saithe there is no regarde of any sutche difference In Ciuile Gouernmente a Kinge is a Kinge and so hath God commaunded him to be knowen But after that wée be once comme to the reuerence and obedience of Goddes wil there God onely is the Kinge the Kinge be he neuer so mighty is but a Subiecte So saith S. Ambrose to the Emperoure Valentiâ—â—ian Noli te extollere Imperator Sed si vis diutiùs Imperare esto Deo subditus Scriptum est Quae Dei Deo quae Caesaris Caesari O my Lorde auance not your selfe But if ye wil remaine long in Empiere be subiecte vnto God It is written Geeue to God that belongeth to God Geeue to Caesar that belongeth to Caesar So saithe the Emperoure Valentinian the Elder of him selfe Ego sum in sorte plebis I am in this respecte as one of the people To like pourpose Iulius Caesar beinge an Heathen Prince saide sommetime of him selfe at Rome in the Councel house Equidem ad alia omnia quae pro vobis gerenda sunt Consul sum Dictator quod autem ad iniuriam cuiquam faciendum attinet sum priuatus Touchinge al other affaires that ought to be taken in hande for your sake I am bothe your Consul and your Dictator But as touchinge any wronge to be donne to any man I am as a priuate man without office So said the Heathen Renegate Iulianus the Emperour Principes vbi ad limen Delubri venerint perinde sunt atque Priuati When the Princes and Magistrates once comme within the entrie of the Temple they are none other but as Priuate Menne And this is al that traiterous and horrible Iudgement that as it pleaseth you to saie Luther had of the Ciuile Magistrate Where ye saie he sturred vp his Disciple Thomas Munzer in Thuringia to be the preacher to the Rebelles it is no strang mater to sée your tonge to renne riot Luther him selfe writinge thereof vnto the Rebelles saithe thus Satanas sub Euangelij praetextu multos hoc tempore seditiosos planè sanguinarios Doctores excitauit Satan vnder the pretense of the Gospel hath sturred vp in these daies many seditious and Bloudy Doctours Meaninge thereby Munzer and other like his companions The Apologie Cap. 5. Diuision 2. But whereas it is woonte sommetime to be obiected by personnes wantinge skil touchinge the Heluetians chaunge of state and killing of Leopoldus the Duke of Austria and restoringe by force theire Countrie to libertie al that was donne as appeareth plainely by al Stories for twoo hundred and threescore yeeres paste or aboue in the time of Pope Boniface the Eight when the Authoritie of the Bishop of Rome was in greatest iolitie aboute twoo hundred yeeres before Huldericus Zuinglius either beganne to teache the Gospel or yet was borne And euer sithence that time thei haue had al thinges stil and quite not onely from foreine Enimies but also from al ciuile dissension And if it were a sinne in the Heluetians to deliuer theire owne Countrie from foreine gouernement specially when they were so proudely and tyrannously oppressed yet to burthen vs with other mennes faultes or them with the faultes of theire Forefathers it is againste al right and reason M. Hardinge Nowe your sprite is not contente withe that ye haue railed already againste the Pope and Holy Churche but it moueth you againe to raue and crie out But whether with more malice or reason let vs indifferently consider The Apologie Cap. 6. Diuision 1. But O immortal God and wil the Bishoppe of Rome accuse vs of Treasone Wil he teache the People to obeie folowe theire Magistrates Or hath he any regarde at al of the Maiestie of a Prince Why doothe hee then as none of the olde Bishoppes of Rome euer didde suffer him selfe to bee called of his flatterers Lord of Lordes as though hee woulde haue al Kinges and Princes whoe and what so euer they be to bee his vnderlinges Why doothe hee vaunte him selfe to bee Kinge of Kinges and to haue Kingely Roialtie ouer his Subiectes Why compelleth he al Emperours and Princes to sweare to him fealtie and true obedience Why dooth hee boaste that the Emperours Maiestie is a thousandfolde inferioure to him that for this reason specially bicause God hath made two lightes in Heauen and bicause Heauen and Earth were created not in twoo Beginninges but in one Why hathe hee and his felowes like Anabaptistes and Libertines to the ende they might runne on more licenceously and carelessy shaken of the yoke exempted them selues from beinge vnder al Ciuil Power Why hathe hee his Legates asmutche to saie as moste suttle spies lieinge in waite in al Kinges Courtes Councelles and Priuie chambers Why doothe he when he liste sette the Christian Princes one againste an other and at his owne pleasure trouble the whole worlde with debate and discorde Why dooth hee Excommunicate and commaunde to be taken as a Heathen and a Pagan any Christian Prince that renounceth his Authoritie and why promiseth he his Indulgences and his Pardons largely to any that wil what waie so euer it be kil any of his enimies Doothe hee maintaine Empires and Kingedomes Or doothe hee once desire that common quiete shoulde bee prouided for You muste pardonne vs good Reader though wee seeme to vtter these thinges more bitterly and bitingly then it becommeth Diuines to doo For bothe the shamefulnesse of the matter and also the desire of rule in the Bishoppe of Rome is so excedinge
further Hoc valdè verisimile est Quoniam verissimum Regnum hoc habet vocabulum S. Gregorie saith He is Antichriste that shal claime to be called the Vniuersal Bishop and shal haue a Garde of Priestes to attende vpon him Againe Irenaeus saithe Antichristus cùm sit Seruus tamen adorari vult vt Deus Antichriste notwithstandinge he be but a slaue yet he wil be woorshipped as if he were God Ioachimus Abbas saithe Antichristus iampridem natus est Romae altiùs extolletur in Sede Apostolica Antichriste is longe sithence borne in Rome and yet shal be higher anaunced in the Apostolique See Thus is he described that shal sitte in the place of Christe and shal maineteine possession againste Christe But Christe shal comme vvith his holy Angels and shal destroie him vvith the breath of his mouthe That ye allege of the Priesthoode of Melchisedech serueth you here to smal pourpose Wee knowe that not the Pope but Christe alone is a Prieste for euer accordinge to the Order of Melchisedech S. Augustine saithe Ipse est Sacerdos noster in aeternum secundum Ordinem Melchisedech qui semetipsum obtulit holocaustum pro peccatis nostris eius Sacrificii Similitudinem celebrandam in suae Passionis Memoriam commendauit Christe is oure Prieste for euer after the Order of Melchisedech whiche hath offered vp him selfe a Sacrifice for oure sinnes and hath deliuered vnto vs a Similitude or Likenesse of that Sacrifice to be donne in remembraunce of his Passion Likewise againe he saithe Holocausti eius Imaginem ad Memoriam Passionis suae in Ecclesia celebrandam dedit vt esset Sacerdos in aeternum non secundum Ordinem Aaron sed secundum ordinem Melchisedech Christe hathe geuen an Image or Resemblaunce of that Sacrifice to bee keapte in the Churche in Remembraunce of his Passion that he might be a Prieste for euer not after the Order of Aaron but after the Order of Melchisedech Howe be it touchinge this whole mater I haue answeared more at large in my Former Replie The Apologie Cap. 9. Diuision 4. Wherefore like as it is written that Hercules in olde time was forced in striuing with Antaeus that huge Giant to lifte him quite vp from the Earth that was his Mother ere he coulde conquert him euen so muste our Aduersaries be heaued from their Mother that is from this vaine colour and shadowe of the Churche wherewith they so disguise and defende them selues otherwise they can not bee brought to yelde vnto the Woorde of God And therefore saithe Ieremie the Prophete Make not sutche great boaste that the Temple of the Lorde is with you This is but a vaine confidence these are but lies The Angel also saithe in the Apocalyps They saie they be Ievves but they bee the Synagog of Sathan And Christe said to the Phariseis when they vaunted them selues of the kinred and bloude of Abraham Ye are of your father the Diuel For you resemble not your Father Abrahā As mutche to saie as Ye are not the menne yee would so faine be called ye beguile the people with vaine titles and abuse the name of the Churche to the ouerthrowing of the Churche M. Hardinge Heaue at vs whiles ye wil and whiles ye may ye shal neuer remoue vs. In whiche stedfastnes we truste to stande by Gods grace to the last breath Heaue at vs with al the forces of your cunning of your malice of your flatterie of your policies and with what so euer ingens ye haue ye shal neuer be able to ouerthrowe the house of our consciences builded vpon the sure rocke Let the gourders of raine come downe from you and al other Heretikes let the floudes of worldly rages thrust let the windes of Sathans temptations blowe their worste this house shal not be ouerthrowen The B. of Sarisburie O M. Hardinge S. Paule saith vnto you Noli altum Sapere sed time Presume not of your selfe but stande in awe Sutche woordes woulde rather haue becommed them that said sommetime vnto the Prophete Hieremie Verbum quòd locutus es nobis in Nomine Domini non audiemus Sed faciendo faciemus omne verbum quòd egredietur de ore nostro Wee wil neuer heare the woorde that thou speakest vnto vs in the name of the Lorde But wee wil surely doo what so euer thing shal passe out of our owne mouthes Thus it is written of them that saide The Lorde shal not beare rule ouer nor maister vs. With like mildenesse of spirite the wilful Philosopher saide Non persuadebis etiamsi persuaseris Ye shal not make me beleue it no though I doo beleue it As Constancie in good thinges is a vertue so frowardnesse and wilfulnesse is a vice Vowe not thus youre owne destruction He that is fallen maie rise againe The Lorde is hable to raise you vp and to make you a vessel of his glorie Ye knowe not to what good pourpose God hath appointed you Speake not ouer mutche of the strength of your Mounte You knowe vpon howe light occasions it hath benne moued Folowe rather S. Paules counsel and with feare and tremblinge woorke youre owne Saluation The waie ye walke in is not youre owne Your harte is in the hande of God Suffer Goddes Truthe to preuaile And vnderstand that the kingedome of God is come vnto you The Apologie Cap. 10. Diuision 1. So that these mennes parte had ben first to haue clearely and truely proued that the Romishe Churche is the true and right instructed Churche of God and that the same as they doo order it at this daie doothe agree with the Primitiue Churche of Christe of the Apostles and of the Holy Fathers whiche wee doubte not but was in deede the True Catholique Churche M. Hardinge Ye would vs to proue that the Romaine Churche is the true Churche of God Ye graunt that once it was the true Churche of God And the Gospel sheweth that Christe praied for it in S. Peter who made his successours there VVhat followeth hereof but that it must needes abide as true as euer it was except Christes praier were not heard S. Paule likewise wttnesseth that the Romaine Faithe is preached in the vniuersal worlde geuing a manifest prophecie that the Romaine Faithe and the Catholique Faithe should be alone S. Cyprian calleth the agreing with the Bishop of Rome and communicating with him Catholicae Ecclesiae vnitatem c. The allowing and firme holding of the vnitie of the Catholique Churche And writing to Antonianus in the same booke he accompteth it for one thing to Communicate with Cornelius the B. of Rome and to Communicate with the Catholique Churche For you it is vaine to saie that it hath erred when the holy ghost hath signified that it can not erre The B. of Sarisburie I wil not saie Where were youre wittes M. Hardinge when yee wrote theise thinges But wel maie I saie where was your Logique As for Diuinitie
then the other Thus he saith Nunquid noÌ„ cùm se Antichristus veniens Deum dixerit friuolum valdâ— erit Sed ramen nimis perniciosum Si quantitatem vocis attendimus Duae sunt Syllabae si pondus iniquitatis Vniuersa pernicies When Antichriste shal comme and cal him selfe God shal it not be a very trifle Yet shal it be marueilous hurteful to the Churche If ye weigh the quantitie of the woorde it standeth in twoo Syllables If ye consider the weight of the wickednesse it is an Vniuersal destruction These are no Lies as it liketh you to calle them M. Harding They are very plaine woordes it is the vndoubted meaninge of S. Gregorie And therefore he calleth this claime of Vniuersal Povver a Superstitioâ—â—s a Profane an Vngodly a Wicked title a name of Hypocrisie a name of Blasphemie To auoide these Authorities beinge so pregnaÌ„t so cleare ye are faine to tansie sundrie prety shiftes sutche as neither Iohn nor Gregorie was euer hable to vnderstande Firste ye saie This Iohn the Bishop of Constantinople meante by this title vtterly to disgrade al Bishoppes and Patriarkes what so euer and to make him selfe the Onely Bishop of al the world It is a childish laboure to seeke a knotte in a russhe to imagine doubtes where the case is cleare It is certaine that the Bishop of Constantinople meante none other Vniuersal Authoritie then that now is claimed by the Pope Therefore it is thus noted in the Booke called Chronicon Eusebij Institntum fuit vt Romana Ecclesia Caput esset Ecclesiarum omnium cùm priùs Constantinopolitana id vsurpare tentasset Order was taken that the Churche of Rome should be the Head of al Churches whereas before the Churche of Constantinople had attempted to Vsurpe the same Whiche thinge is also noted by Matthias Palmerius of Florence that without any manner difference or change of woordes Sabellicus saithe Bonifaciusz egit ab initio administrationis suae cum Phoca vt Romana Ecclesia esset omniuÌ„ aliarum Caput Estque id aegrè nec sine multa contentione Apostolicae Sedi datum Graeci id ad se decus trahentes ibi Christianae Pietatis Arcem esse oportere aiebant vbi Imperij Bonifacius the thirde at the firste enitre into his office was an earneste suiter vnto the Emperoure Phocas that the Churche of Rome might be the Heade of al other Churches Whiche thinge hardely and with greate laboure was graunted to the Apostolique See of Rome The Grecians drawinge the same honoure vnto them selues saide It was necessarie the Heade of Christian Religion shoulde be there where as was the Heade of the Empiere whiche was at Constantinople Likewise writeth Vrspergensis At the requeste and suite of Pope Boniface Phocas the Emperoure appointed the See of the Apostolique Churche of Rome to be the Heade of al Churches For before that time the Churche of Constantinople wrote her selfe the First or Chiefe of al others By these it maie appeare M. Hardinge it was greate folie for you thus to caâ—â—â—l at the name For the Power and Iurisdiction then claimed by the Bishop of Constantinople and afterwarde vsurped by the Bishoppes of Rome â–ª was al one Therefore S. Gregorie saithe to Iohn the Bishop of Constantinople Tu quid Christo Vniuersalis Ecclesiae Capiti in Extremi Iudicij dicturus es examine qui Cuncta cius membra tibimet conaris Vniuersalis appellatione supponere What answeare wilte thou make at the trial of the Laste Judgement vnto Christe the Head of the Vniuersal Churche whiche thus by the name of Vniuersal Bishop seekeste to make al his Members subiecte vnto thee Euen the selfe same Vniuersal povver claimeth nowe the Bishop of Rome and séeketh to make al other Bishoppes through the world and the whole Vniuersal Churche of Christe thral and subiecte vnto him The Bishoppes of Constantinople felle sommetimes into Heresies were deceiued But Christe hath praied for Peter that his Faithe shoulde not faise Ergo saie you The Bishop of Rome can neuer possibly be deceiued O M. Hardinge let shame once force you to refraine these Vanities I doubte not but hereafter in place conuenient I shal be hable to shewe that there haue benne mee Heretiques placed in S. Peters Chaire eueÌ„ in the See of Rome then you are hable to finde in any one Sée within Europe Verily S. Gregories reason touching the danger Confusion of the Churche weigheth nomore againste the Bishop of Constantinople then againste the Bishop of Rome For thus he saithe If he that is called the Vniuersal Bishop happen to erre then needes must yâ— who le Vniuersal Churche fal togeather with him into Erroure And therefore if ye had perused the Councel of Basile ye shoulde haue founde this selfe same reason alleged there not againste the Bishop of Constantinople but against the Pride and Arrogancie of the Bishop of Rome The woordes be these Alioqui errante Pontifice sicut saepè contigit contingere potest toâ—a erraret Ecclesia Otherwise when so euer the Pope erreth as he hath often erred and maie erre againe the vvhole Churche should erre with him Thus wrote the Bishoppes and by your owne Iudgemente Catholike Bishoppes in the Councel of Basile yet had they not forgotten the Praier that Christe made for S. Peter And therefore Franciscus Zarabella a notable Canoniste and Cardinal of the Churche of Rome seeinge the greate enormities that grewe hereof saithe thus Papae faciunt quicquid libet etiam illicita sunt plusquam Deus Ex hoc infiniti sequuti sunt errores Quia papa occupauit omnia iura inferiorum Ecclesiarum ita vt inferiores Praelati fint pro nihilo Et nisi Deus succurrat statui Ecclesiae Vniuersalis Ecclesia periclitatur The Popes doo now what so euer they liste to doo yea although it be vnlawfultand are becomme more then God Hereof haue folowed infinite Erroures For the Pope hath inuaded and entred vpon al the right of the Inferioure Churches so that the inferiour Bishoppes maie goe for nought And onlesse God healpe the state of the Churche the Vniuersal Churche is in danger Thus hitherto M. Harding ye haue founde no lie Nowe where ye woulde seeme to saie Gregorie so reproued the Bishop of Constantinople that neuerthelesse he claimed yâ— same Title Vniuersal Authoritie to him selfe maie it therefore please you herein to stand to yâ— IudgemeÌ„t of S. Gregorie him selfe of whoÌ„ I recken ye doo not doubte but he vnderstood his owne meaninge Doubtelesse if ye had so diligentely considered S. Gregorie as ye beare vs in hande ye should haue found that touchinge any his owne right herein he Disclaimeth this Title refuseth it vtterly For so he writeth to yâ— Emperour Mauritius Nunquid ego in hac re pijssime Domine propriam causam defend O my moste Graceouse Lord doo I herein quarrel for myne owne right Againe he
Pope is Antichriste For bothe Heauen Earthe knoweth he is not Christe The Apologie Cap. 18. Diuision 1. But forsomutche as these menne auouche the Vniuersal possession of the Catholique Churche to be their owne and cal vs Heretiques bicause we agree not in iudgemente with them let vs know I beseeche you what proper marke and badge hathe that Churche of theirs whereby it maie be knowen to bee the Churche of God Yewis it is not so harde a matter to finde out Goddes Churche if a manne wil seeke it earnestly and diligently For the Churche of God is sette vpon a highe glisteringe place in the toppe of an Hille and builte vpon the Fundation of the Apostles and Prophetes There saithe Augustine lette vs seeke the Churche there lette vs trie oure maters And as he saithe againe in an other place The Churche muste be shevved out of the Holy and Canonical Scriptures and that vvhiche can not be shevved out of them is not the Churche Yet for al this I wote not how whether it be for feare or for conscience or despaire of victorie these menne alwaie abhorre and flee the VVoorde of God euen as the Theefe fleeth the Gallowes And no woonder truely For like as menne saie the Cantharus by and by perisheth dieth as soone as it is laide in baulme notwithstandinge Baulme be otherwise a moste sweete smellinge ointemente euen so these men wel see their owne matte is damped and destroied in the VVoorde of God as if it were in poison Therefore the Holy Scriptures whiche oure Saueour Iesus Christe did not onely vse for Authoritie in al his speache but did also at laste seale vp the same with his owne Bloude these menne to the entent they mighte with lesse businesse driue the people from the same as from a thinge daungerous and deadly haue vsed to cal theim a Bare Letter Vncertaine Vnprofitable Doūbe Killinge Deade whiche seemeth to vs al one as if they shoulde saie The Scriptures are to no pourpose or as good as none at al. Hereunto they adde also a Similitude not very agreeable how the Scriptures be like to a Nose of VVaxe or a Shipmans Hose how thei may be fashioned and plied al manner of waies and serue al mennes turnes M. Hardinge VVhere ye saie the Churche is builded vpon the Fundation of the Apostles and Prophetes and shewed by the Holy Canonicall Scriptures we confesse the same with S. Augustine VVhen ye adde the Churche whiche can not be shewed out of the Scriptures to be no Churche we saie that though S. Augustine haue no suche woordes in the Chapters whiche ye alleage in the Margent yet were it neuer so muche graunted that he had those woordes in that place they shoulde make nothinge for your pourpose S. Augustine in that Booke disputeth againste the Donatistes who would restraine the Catholike Churche to the onely Countrie of Aphrike denieinge other Christen menne to be members thereof S. Augustine refutinge their Heresie declareth the Sonne of God to be Heade and all the true Faithfull to be the Body of the Churche and that it is not sufficient to holde with the Head alone or with the Body alone but we muste holde with bothe together if we will be saued The Donatistes did graunte the Heade Iesus Christe and denied his Body the Churche For this cause saithe S. Augusiine Ipsum Caput de quo consentimus ostēdat nobis Corpus suum de quo dissentimus Let the Heade vpon whom we agree shewe vnto vs his Body whereupon we disagree The Head is Christe who spake firste by his Prophetes afterwarde by him selfe and laste of all by his Apostles In his igitur omnibus quaerenda est Ecclesia In all these saithe he the Churche muste be sought If thou marke good Reader that whiche I haue here rehersed out of S Augustine it is to be seene that he bindeth not the proufe of the Churche simply to the Holy Scriptures but onely in a case when he hath to doo with an Heretike who wil not admitte the auctoritie of the Churche Therefore a true Churche maie be founde whiche is not shewed in the Scriptures so the contrarie thereof be not shewed in the Scriptures Now if these Defenders will haue that to be no Churche which can not be shewed out of Scriptures they shall vnderstande that as therein they plaie the Donatistes so we must needes folow's Augustine in bringinge Scripture against them not as the onely proufe in deede whiche they falsely saie but as a very good and chiefe kinde of proufe moste profitable in all cases and necessary at suche time as the aduersarie will admitte none other proufe c. VVherefore it remaineth that it is the Synagog of Antichriste and Lucifer VVho as he fell out of Heauen like a lightninge so he maketh a blase and shewe of a Churche in the Earthe for a time But as we can tell when it was not borne so shall it not be longe but that through Gods power it will vanishe awaie dispersed and be scattered by the lightsome Maiestie of Christes true Churche whiche from S. Peters time to this daie florisheth in her Head the Bishop of Rome and in her members throughout the worlde vvhiche abide in the Vnitie of the same Bishop VVee esteeme and vnderstande the Scriptures to be the sense and the woorde If they can pretende the bare woorde they thinke themselues good inough to make a sense of their owne VVhiche bare woorde as they misuse it Pighius perhaps compareth to a nose of waxe But the Scriptures he neuer meante to dishonour with that similitude If it were lawfull for vs to vse Scripture after our owne interpretation as they doo we shoulde not lacke sufficient matter in the Holy Bookes to ouerthrowe by our owne applieinge all theire false opinions and Heresies But we are bounde to that religious awe and reuerence of them that excepte we haue an Authour to auouche the sense whereof we take holde we dare bringe foorthe nothinge And yet reade our Bookes who will he shall lacke neither Scriptures in them nor witnesses of our interpretation in any controuersie of this age Let it be agreed that for decision of controuersies suche sense of the Scriptures be taken for Scripture whiche the Holy Ghost hath taught the Churche and then let the worlde iudge who flieth the woorde of God as the Theefe dothe the Gallowes The B. of Sarisburie Contrarie to that wée haue here alleged of S. Augustine ye saie A true Churche maie be founde whiche is not shewed in the Scriptures Whereby it appeareth ye are lothe your Churche shoulde comme to the trial of this Standerde But for as mutche as this quarrel groweth of S. Augustine let S. Augustine him selfe be the Iudge And to allege a fewe woordes in stéede of many thus he saithe Vtrùm ipsi Ecclesiam teneant Diuinarum Scripturarum Canonicis Libris ostendant Ecclesiam Christi
sicut ipsum Caput Christum in Scripturis Sanctis Canonicis debemus agnoscere VVhether they haue the Churche or no let them shewe by the Canonical Bookes of the Holy Scriptures VVee muste knowe the Churche of Christe euen as wee likewise knowe Christe whiche is the Heade of the Churche in the Holy Canonical Scriptures Againe he saithe Ecclesiam sine vlla ambiguitate Sancta Scriptura demonstrat The Holy Scripture sheweth the Churche without any doubtefulnesse Againe Quaestio est vhi sit Ecclesia Quid ergo facturi sumus Vtrùm in verbis nostris eam quaesituri an in Verbis Capitis sui Domini nostri Iesu Christi Futo quòd in illius potiùs Verbis eam quaerere debemus qui Veritas est optimè nouit Corpus suum The question or doubte is where the Churche should be What then shal we doo VVhether shal wee seeke the Churche in our owne woordes or in the VVoordes of her Heade whiche is oure Lorde Iesus Christe In my Iudgemente wee ought rather to seeke the Churche in his VVoordes for that he is the Truthe and beste knoweth his owne Body Againe Non audiamus Haec dico Haec dicis Sed audiamus Haec dicit Dominus lbi quaeramus Ecclesiam Ibi discutiamus causam nostram Let vs not heare these woordes This saie I This saiste thou But these woordes set vs heare Thus saithe the Lorde there let vs seeke the Churche there let vs discusse oure cause And againe Nolo Humanis Documentis sed Diuinis Oraculis Sanctam Ecclesiam demonstrari I wil not haue the Holy Churche to be shewed by Mannes Iudgemente but by Goddes VVoorde Likewise saithe S. Chrysostome Nunc nullo modo cognoscitur quae sit vera Ecclesia Christi nisi Tantummodò per Scripturas Now can noman knowe whiche is the true Churche of Christe but Onely by the Scriptures Againe he saithe in like fourme of woordes Volens ergo quis cognoscere quae sit Vera Ecclesia Christi vnde cognoscat in tanta confusione similitudinis nifi Tantummodo ' per Scripturas If a man be desirous to knowe whiche is the true Churche of Christe how can he know it in sutche a confusion of likenesse but Onely by the Scriptures These woordes be so euident and so plaine that noman with modestie maie wel denie them And whereas you saie Al this notwithstandinge A true Churche maie be founde whiche is not shewed in the Scriptures S. Ambrose saithe Ecclesia fulget non suo sed Christi Lumine The Churche shineth or is knowen not by her owne Lighte but by the Light of Christe whiche is by the VVoorde of God And chrysostome saithe Qui Sacra non vtitur Scriptura sed ascendit aliunde id est non concessa via hic Fur est Latro Who so vseth not the Scripture but geateth vp an other waie that is by a waie that is not lawful he is a Theefe and a Murtheier Againe he saithe Hierusalem hîc semper Ecclesiam intellige quae dicitur Ciuitas Pacis cuius Fundamenta posita sunt super Montes Scripturarum Here by Hierusalem euermore vnderstande thou the Churche whiche is called the Cittie of Peace The Fundations whereof are saide vpon the Mountaines of the Scriptures Ye magnifie your Churche of Rome and saie It shieth on highe vpon the Mounte Yet S. Bernarde saithe to the Pope and his Cleregie as it is alleged before Vos estis Tenebrae Mundi Ye are the Darkenesse of the VVorlde Therefore ye maie not wel vaunte your selues so mutche of the brightnesse of your Beames As for that ye cal our Churche the Synagoge of Lucifer and Antichriste we maie wel suffer it to blowe euer as the vaine vnsauery smoke of somme impatiente Cholerique humoure Our cause is not the woorse M. Hardinge in the Iudgemente of the wise for that you haue learned so readily to speake il But what Louanian vanitie is this to saie The Members of the Churche of Christe abide in the Vnitie of the Pope What Scripture or Doctoure or Father euer tolde you of sutche Vnitie S. Paule saith Wee are alone not in the Pope but in Christe Iesu And what so greate Vnitie can you saie there is or hathe benne in your Popes Platyna saithe Post Stephanum semper haec consuetudo seruata est vt acta Priorum Pontificum sequentes ant infringereat aut omnino ' tollerent It hathe benne an ordinarie custome emonge the Popes euer sithence the time of Pope Steuin that the Popes that folowed afterworde would euermore either breake or abolishe the Actes of the Popes that had benne before them Erasmus saith Iohannes 22. Nicolaus totis Decretis inter se pugnāt idque in his quae videntur ad Fidei negotium pertinere Pope Iohn 22. and Pope Nicolas in theire whole Decrees are contrarie the one againste the other yea and that in maters that seeme to belonge to cases of the Faithe To be shorte the Popes haue fouly corrupted the Scriptures they haue corrupted the Decrees Canons of Councelles they haue benne Sorcerers Idolaters Scribes Phariseis Thei haue benne Arian Heretiques Nestorian Heretiques Monothelite Heretiques Montaniste Heretiques thei haue mainteined damnable Heresies against y◠Godhed of Christe against y◠Personne of Christe against y◠VVil of Christe against the Immortalitie of the Soule they haue henne contrarie to themselues one directly and expressely againste an other Yet muste the Pope beare vp the whole Churche of God euen as Atlas beareth vy the Heauens and onlesse al the worlde abide in him is there no Vnitie in the Churche Thus saith Hosius Vnum praeesse toti Ecclesiae vsque ade ò est necessarium vt absque hoc Ecclesia Vna esse non possit It is so necessarie a thinge that one haue the gouernmente of the whole that otherwise the Churche of God cannot be One. Likewise it is noted in the Popes ovvne Gloses vpon his Decretalles Constat Ecclesiam ideo esse vnam quia in Vniuersali Ecclesia vnum est caput Supremum scilicet Papa It is plaine that the Churche is one for that in the Vniuersal Churche there is one Supreme Heade that is the Pope An other of your Doctours doubteth not to steppe yet a litle farther and thus to expounde the woordes of Christe Fiet Vnū Ouile Vnus Pastor Quod quidem de christo intelligi non potest Sed de aliquo alio Ministro qui praesit loco eius There shal be one Folde and one Shepehearde These vvoordes vvee maie not vnderstande of Christe but of somme other Minister that ruleth in his roome By whiche Doctours Catholique Iudgemente wée finde that the Vnitie of the Churche hangeth not of Christe but of the Pope But these be ouer vaine and grosse vanities For though the Pope were no Pope yea though Antichriste were the Pope yet is Christe hable to holde his Churche in perfite Vnitie S. Paule saithe Christus est
knewe What then shal I saie heere O ye principal Postes of Religion O ye Archegouernours of Christes Churche is this that your reuerence whiche yee geue to Goddes VVoorde The Holy Scriptures whiche S. Paule saithe came by the inspiration of God whiche God did commende by so many Miracles wherein are the moste perfite printes of Christes owne steppes whiche al the Holy Fathers Apostles Angels whiche Christe him selfe the Sonne of God as often as was needeful did allege for testimonie and proufe wil ye as though they were vilwoorthy for you to heare did them Auaunt That is wil ye enioine God to keepe silence who speaketh to you moste clearely by his owne mouthe in the Scriptures Or that VVoorde whereby alone as Paule saithe we are reconciled to God and whiche the Prophete Dauid saithe is Holy and Pure and shal laste for euer wil ye cal that but a bare and deade Letter Or wil ye saie that al our laboure is loste whiche is bestowed in that thinge whiche Christe hath commaunded vs diligently to searche and to haue euermore before our eies And wil ye saie that Christe the Apostles meante with suttletie to deceiue the people when they exhorted them to reade the Holy Scriptures that thereby they might flowe in al wisedome and knowledge No marueile at al though these men despise vs and al our dooinges seeinge they set so litle by God him selfe and his infallible saieinges Yet was it but wante of witte in them to the intent they mighte hurte vs to doo so extreme iniurie to the VVoorde of God But Hosius wil here make exclamation and saie that wee doo him wronge that these be not his owne woordes but the woordes of the Heretique zvvenkfeldius But how then if zvvenkfeldius make exclamation on the other side and saie that the same very woordes be not his but Hosius owne woordes For tel me where hath zvvenkfeldius euer written them Or if he haue written them and Hosius haue iudged the same to be wicked why hath not Hosius spoken so mutche as one woorde to confute them How so euer the mater goe although Hosius peraduenture wil not allowe of those woordes yet he dothe not disallow the meaninge of the woordes For welueare in al Controuersies namely touchinge the vse of the Holy Communion vnder Bothe Kindes although the woordes of Christe be plaine and euident yet dothe Hosius disdeinefully reiecte them as no better then Colde Dead Elementes and commaundeth vs to geeue Faithe to certaine Newe Lessons appointed by his Churche and to I wote not what Reuelations of the Holy Ghoste And Pighius saith Mēne ought not to beleue no not the most cleare manifeste woordes of the Scriptures onlesse the same be allowed for good by the Interpretation Authoritie of the Churche whereby he meaneth the Churche of Rome M. Hardinge How ignorantly wickedly and stubbornely the Authour of this Apologie burdeneth the reuerent Father in God and Honourable prelate Cardinall Hosius with that he neuer saide it is not vnknowen to al men who haue readen that Booke whiche he wrote De Expresso verbo Dei of the expresse VVoorde of God Here I aske so muche pardon as to detecte an hereticall touche or twoo before I make direct answeare to the foule slaunderinge of Hosius Firste I note with what fidelitie these newe Holy brethren doo their thinges It maie be thought that the Secretary of this newe Clergie at his penninge of the Apologie sawe not Hosius Booke of the expresse woorde of God But as they haue benne conuersant in S. Augustine Hierome Chrysostome and the Auncient Fathers so vse they Hosius at this time that is to saie they reade neither the Olde Fathers with any diligence neither the writers of our time But by snappes and pieces either them selues write out here and there a line or two or vse that whiche some of their owne secte hath taken out of them So that for moste parte they neuer knowe the true meaninge of the place whiche they alleage But vsinge patched note bookes and bringinge in scattered Authorities they be deceiued themselues and deceiue others And he that tooke the note knewe well they were not the woordes of Hosius and did but onely put the name of Hosius vnto them because they were taken out of his Booke The writer of this Apologie not knowinge or not remembringe so muche when he founde in the note booke the name of Hosius with suche woordes he did rashely put them in printe to his owne greate shame and discredite If this excuse be not true wee muste needes laie maruelous malice to the saide writer who wittingly and of set purpose did impute the woordes to Hosius whiche he reported by waie of mislikinge of them and shewinge whose Heresie they conteined Now let the Defenders chose whether they will haue their Secretarie condemned of ignorance or of malice How so euer it be marke yet the thirde pointe whiche hereof we wil gather The Apologie was skant Printed and published but that grosse errour was out of hande espied and woorde thereof brought to the Authour I meane him that penned it But what did he Did he confesse that he was deceiued Did he crie Hosius mercie No no. That is not the woonte of Heretikes They wil go forewarde with the matter once begonne what so euer come of it VVhat did he then VVhen it shoulde be set foorthe in Englishe and woorde came to him thereof he made an excuse I warraunt you meete for an Heretike whose propertie it is Proficere in peius as S. Paule saithe to proceede to worse and worse to take his degree backewarde and of a great faulte to make a farre greatter For whereas before as Charitiemoueth me to thinke he had made an errour supposinge Hosius to haue saide that whiche he had not after warde by stubborne mainteininge of it he sheweth what spirite he is of And when he mighte reasonably haue excused his ignorance chose rather spitefully to discouer his malice As it shall manifestly appeare by the circumstance of the thinge He laieth to Hosius charge and in his persone to all our charges that we do not esteeme the Holy Scriptures He proueth it by certaine woordes alleaged out of a treatise made by Hosius De Expresso verbo Dei The woordes are here put in the Apologie as the reader maie see The true argumente of Hosius booke is no other then to shewe that all Heretikes haue alleaged the woordes of God as they be written But none of them all haue taken the righte vnderstandinge of Goddes woordes as they doo in deede signifie For that onely the Catholike Churche atteineth vnto because onely it hath the Holy Ghoste All Heretikes haue brought for their opinions the written VVoorde of God so longe vntill at the laste saithe Hosius there were founde who by the woordes of the Scriptures toke vpon them to take away al Auctoritie from Scriptures Natum est saithe he nouum quoddam Prophetarum genus
his owne Iudgemente but onely as in the personne of the Heretique Zuenkfeldius Therefore ye saie wée charge him wrongefully with the allowinge of that thinge whiche he expressely and plainely reproueth Firste of al the Authour of the Apologie protesteth that if there were any ouersight herein it procéeded onely of erroure and not of malice as it maie wel appeare in that he was not deceiued alone For if he were deceiued in mistakinge these woordes diuerse others the beste Learned of this age haue benne deceiued therein as wel as he Nicolaus Gallus hereof writeth thus Hosius Cardinalis Legatus Sanctissimi praesidens Concili◠Tridentini in suo Libro de Expresso Verbo Dei ait Nos verò Dei de Coelo sententiam potiùs expectabimus c. Non oportet Legis aut Scripturae esse peritum sed à Deo doctum Vanus est labor qui Scripturis impenditur Scriptura enim Creatura est egenum quoddam Elementum Cardinal Hosius Legate vnto the most Holy Father and President of the Councel of Trident in his Booke De Expresso Verbo Dei saithe thus We wil rather waite for Goddes wil from Heauen c. It behooueth not a man to be skilful in the Lawe of God or in the Scriptures but to be taught of God It is but loste laboure that is spente in the Scriptures For the Scripture is a Creature and a poore kinde of out warde Elemente Thus Nicolaus Gallus burdeneth your owne Catholique Frende Hosius with these woordes and not the Heretique Zuenkfeldius Likewise saithe Flacius Illyricus speakinge of the same woordes of Hosius Vnum locum ex plurimis proferam in quo Hosius alterius cuiusdam sententiam de hac re citans comprobat Nos Dei de Coelo Sententiam potiùs expectabimus c. vanus est labor qui Scripturis impenditur One place I wil allege out of many where Hosius bringinge in the saieinge of one certaine man meaninge Zuenkfeldius allovveth vvel of the same These woordes saithe Illyricus Hosius vttereth in the name personne of Zuenkfeldius Yet neuerthelesse he alloweth them as his owne To like pourpose writeth Iacobus Andreae who after he had reported al the foresaide woordes in the ende concludeth thus Hactenus Hosius Quae verba siue Hosius suo siue aliorum nomine recitet certè hanc else Asoti Hosij de Sacra Scriptura sententiam non est obscurum Thus farre Hosius whiche woordes how so euer Hosius reporte them either in his owne name or in the name of somme other without al doubte this is the Judgemente that bothe Asotus and Hosius haue of the Holy Scripture So likewise saith that moste Graue and Learned Father Iohannes Brentius Intereà vociferantur Sacram Scripturam else Dubiam Ambiguā Praeceptorem Mutum Literā Occidentem Literam Mortuam adeoque fi Reuerendis illis Patribus libuerit Aesopi Fabulas In the meane while they crie out y◠the Holy Scriptures are Blinde and Doubteful a Doūbe Scholemaister a killinge VVrite a deade Letter yea and if it shal like these Reuerende Fathers no better then Esopes Fables Perhaps ye wil saie of these Learned Menne as yée saie of some others Thei vsed onely their patched Notebookes and scattered Authorities by snappes and peeces here and there a line or twoo and vnderstoode not what they wrote Notwithstandinge what so euer it shal please you to saie as therein your grace is very greate yet you sée by these fewe and muste néedes confesse if the Authoure of the Apologie thouchinge this place of Hosius were happily ouerseene by erroure yet he had to many of the beste Learned of this age to keepe him companie in his erroure Verily they saie not as you saie Thus saithe Zuenkfeldius They saie as wée saie Thus saith Hosius It Hosius were hable to blinde so many wée must thinke he was a skilful Writer The fairest coloure ye can laie hereon is this How so euer these woordes be vttered by Hosius yet was this no parte of his meaninge Yet Iacobus Andreae saith Hanc else Asoti Hosij sententiam non est obscurum Without doubte this is the very meaninge of Alotus and Hosius And Illyricus saith Hosius alleginge the saieinge of one certaine man whereby he meaneth the Heretique Zuenkfeldius allovveth vvel of the same But for as mutche as yée saie This Glose is more maliceous then the Former Erroure and that therein wee spitefully discouer our Malice without Reason without Learninge without VVitte and require vs to repente for shame as if it were a Sinne not againste Hosius but againste the Holy Ghoste I beseche you therefore indifferently to consider with what reuerence and modestie not onely Hosius but also sundrie others your Frendes of that side haue vsed to speake and write of the VVoorde of God Ludouicus a Canon of the Churche of Laterane in Rome in an Oration openly pronounced in your late Chapter at Tridente saithe thus Ecclesia est Viuum pectus Christi Scriptura autem est quasi Mortuum Atramentum The Churche is the Liuely Breaste of Christe But the Scripture is as it were Deade Inke Likewise saide the Bishop of Poiters in the same your Chapter Scriptura est res manimis muta sicut etiam sunt reliquae Leges Politicae The Scripture is a Deade and Doumbe thinge as are al other Politique Lawes Albertus Pigghius saithe Si dixeris haec referri oportere ad Iudicium Scripturarum Communis re sensus ignarum esse comprobas Sunt enim Scripturae Muti Iudices If thou saie These maters muste be put ouer to the Iudgemente of the Scriptures thou she west thee selfe to be voide of common reason For the Scriptures are doumbe Iudges and cannot speake Eckius calleth the Scriptures Euangelium Nigrum Theologiam Atramentariam The Blacke Gospel and Inken Diuinitie Againe Pigghius saithe Ecclesia habet illam potestatem vt possit Scriptis quibusdam impertiri Canonicam Authoritatem quam nec ex se nec ex suis Authoribus habent The Churche hath power to geeue Canonical Authoritie vnto certaine Writinges whiche otherwise they haue not neither of them selues nor of their Authours There maie be certaine Bookes allowed for Scripture saithe he that haue no credite nor Authoritie of them selues Therefore the meaninge hereof must néedes be this The Churche of Rome hath Authoritie to make Scriptures Againe he saithe Sunt Scripturae vt non minùs verè quà m festiuè dixit quidam velut Nasus Cereus qui se horsum illorsum in quancunque volueris partem trahi retrahi fingique facilè permittit As one man bothe truely and merily saide the Scripture is like a Nose of VVaxe that easily suffereth it selfe to be drawen backewarde and forewarde and to be moulded and falshioned this waie and that waie and how so euer yee liste Thus M. Harding yée teache the people to reuerence weighe the
Mellitus Iustus Mellitus to be Bishop of London and Iustus to be Bishop of Rochester Which thinges thus declared it foloweth orderly in the storie Then these Warres being ended these Bishoppes Consecrated aftervvarde died the beloued Father Augustine After the Warre he died he saithe and not Before as they haue sithence altered it in the Latine I trwo M. Harding yée are not so mutch amazed with the admiration of your Augustine that yée wil saie he had power to Consecrate Bishoppes and to vse his Archiepiscopal Authoritie beinge deade As for these woordes that wée find reported by the Parenthesis in the Latine as written by Beda Quamuis Augustino iam mùlto anté tempore ad coelestia Regna sublato For as mutche as they are quite contrarie to the very course and order of the storie and specially for that they are not once touched in the Aunciente Saxon Translation sundrie Copies whereof at this presente are extante and to be séene of sutche Reuerende Antiquitie as maie not iustely be called in question therefore wée haue good cause to iudge that the saide woordes haue benne sithence forced and shifted in by somme good skille and policie leste Augustine so holy a man should be founde guiltie of so greate a Crueltie 596 August commeth into Englande 597 598 599 600 601 August receiueth his Palle 602 603 604 August consecrateth Mellitus and Iustus 605 Gregorie dieth The vvarre against the Britaines The Saxon Chronicle of Peterburrough 606 607 608 August dieth Flores Historiar Verily in the Olde Englishe Chronicle it is recorded not onely that this Augustine the Italian Monke by his complainte caused the King of Kente to arme his people against the true and Faithful Christians of this Countrie then beinge in Wales or that he was aliue at the time of the battaile but also that he was him self presente in personne goeinge towarde the same The woordes be these Augustine came againe and tolde kinge Ethelberte that the Britaines woulde not obeie him Wherefore the Kinge was wrothe and sente to Elfrede the king of Northumberland to comme to healpe him to distresse the Britaines of VVales And Augustine the Archebishop of Canturburie mette vvith them at Leicester The King of Leicester at that time was called Brocuale He beinge afraide of the twoo Kinges fledde out of the Lande and came neuer againe And the twoo kinges seised al his landes and departed them bitweene them selues And afterward thei went to wardes Wales The Britaines heard of them and sente menne to them in their shirtes and harefoote to aske mercie But they were so cruel that they had of them no pitie c. Hereby it appeareth that this Augustine not onely enkendled this cruel Warre but also was aliue and present in the Armie Therefore M. Hardinge it shal hencefoorth be good bothe for you and for your Felowes not to aduenture so rasshely in iudgemente before yée knowe Thus mutche briefely as anweare vnto them that so faine woulde haue their Augustine acquited of Pride and Crueltie The Apologie Cap. 1. Diuision 2. Wherein thei doo mutche like to the Coniurers Sorcerers now a daies whiche woorkinge with Diuels vse to saie they haue theire Bookes and al theire Holy and hid Mysteries from Athanasius Cyprian Moses Abel Adam and from the Archangel Raphael to the ende that their conninge being thought to comme from sutche Patrones and Founders might be iudged the more high and Holy After the same manner these menne bicause they woulde haue theire owne Religion whiche they themselues and that not longe sithence haue brought foorth into the world to be the more easily and rather accepted of foolishe personnes or of sutche as cast little whereabout they or others doo goe they are woonte to saie they had it from Augustine Hierome Chrysostome from the Apostles and from Christe him selfe Ful wel knowe they that nothinge is more in the peoples fauoure or better liketh the common sorte then these names M. Hardinge Nay Sirs your selues maie with more reason be likened to Enchaunters Necromancers and VVitches For as they saie that they haue their Bookes and their mysteries from those Doctours and firste Fathers and from Raphael the Archangel but cannot shewe the deliuery thereof by any succession from hand to hande as for example who receiued the same from Raphael from Adam from Abel c. and who kept them from time to time so ye saie also that ye haue your Gospel and euery part of your Doctrine from the Apostles from Christe from the Prophetes from the Patriarkes from heauen from Gods owne bosome who is Father of lightes But ye cannot shewes vs your lauful succession by whom and by whose preachinge as by handes it came downe alonge from Christe and his Apostles vnto you VVhere laie your sacramentary Doctrine hidden bitwene the time of your Prophete Zuinglius and your Patriarke Berengarius Howe and by what deliuery from hande to hand continewed the same those fiue hundred yeeres She we vs your succession VVhere be your Bishops where be your Churches The Doctrine whiche the Catholikes of our Countrie holde and professe as wel touchinge the blessed sacramente as al other pointes of our faithe they haue receiued it of theire Bishops and they of their Predecessours by order vntil they reache to S. Augustine S. Augustine receiued it of S. Gregorie * he of others before him * and they al one of an other by continual aescente vnto S. Peter who receiued it of Christe Christ of God his Father * And this Doctrine we finde taught and plainely set forth in the bookes that S. Augustine Hierome Chrysostome Ambrose Basile Cyprian Dionyse and the other holy Fathers haue leafte to the Posteritie And so they be witnesses of the truth of the Doctrine which our Bishops haue taught vs. Preache ye and crie ye out neuer so mutche make so many Lawes in your Parlamentes as ye liste imbrue your swordes in the Bloude of the Catholike Christians as ye crie for it in your pulpites yet shal that rocke whereon we staie be too harde for you Neither shal ye euer be able to ouerthrowe the Catholike Churche builded thereupon For certaine we are that neither al your power nor Hel gates shal preuaile againste it The B. of Sarisburie Marcus Varro was woonte to saie Vtile est Ciuitatibus vt se viri fortes etiamsi falsum fit Dijs genitos esse credant It is very behoueful for Cities and Common Weales that menne of Valiante courage beleue thē selues to be the Children of the Goddes yea although in deede it be vntrue Vnto whiche woordes S. Augustine addeth these Haec Sententia cernis quà m latum locum aperiat falsitati Ye see howe large a scope this saieing dooth open to the Mainteinance of Falsehedde Many vaine menne to auance the Nobilitie of theire bloud haue fette their petite degrées somme frō Achilles somme frō Aeneas somme from Hercules and somme from the
place to a Generall The B. of Sarisburie The paintinge of Images in Churche walles was forebidden in the Councel holden at Eliberis or Granado in Spaine Ergo saie you sutche Images were vsed before that Councel Al this maie wel be graunted without preiudice But yée sée plainely they were forebidden in that Councel One saithe Ex malis moribus bonae Leges ortae sunt Of il manners came good Lawes Menne vsed yée saie before y◠time to painte Images in Churche walles But this vse was naught And therefore the Councel Decreed against it that as it maie be geathered by the woordes for feare of Idolatrie But you saie the Seconde General Nicene Councel allowed wel the deuoute vse of Images And a General Councel ought to take place before a Prouincial For that in a General Councel there are many Bishoppes in a Prouincial there are but fewe Thus I sée ye weigh your Religion not by Truthe but by Companie How be it this Rule is very loose maie soone deceiue you Good Christian Reader let no man beguile thée by the coloure of Councelles Reade this Seconde Nicene Councel throughout if thou be hable Thou wilt saie there was neuer any Assemblie of Christian Bishoppes so vaine so péeuishe so wicked so blasphemous so vnwoorthy in al respectes to be called a Councel The blessed Bishoppes there agreed togeather with one consente that Images in Churches are not onely to be allowed but also deuoutely and reuerently to be honoured and that with the same Honoure that is dewe to God him selfe One of them saithe Venerandas Imagines recipio Adoro id perpetuò docebo I receiue and woorship the Reuerende Images and this wil I teache while I liue An other saith Sacras Imagines perfectè Adoro qui verò secùs consitentur eos anathematizo I doo perfitely Adoure the Holy Images and I accurse al them that holde the contrarie An other saithe Non sant duae Adorationes sed vna Ipsius Imaginis primi Exemplaris cuius est Imago There be not twoo kindes of Adoration but one dewe as wel to the Image as to the Paterne of the Image This Holy Councel ye saie decréed againste Imagebreakers But the Counsel of God decréeth againste Image vvoorshippers and Imagemakers S. Augustine saithe Sic omnino errare meruerunt qui Christum Apostolos eius non in Sanctis Codicibus sed in Pictis Parietibus quaesierunt Nec mirum si à Pingentibus Fingentes decepti sunt So were they woorthy to be deceiued that sought Christe and his Apostles not in the Bookes of Holy Scripture but in Painted Walles Neither maie wee marueile if Painers by Painters were deceiued The Apologie Cap. 3. Diuision 3. The Olde Father Epiphanius saith It is an horrible wickednesse and a Sinne not to be suffered for any man to set vp any Picture in the Churche of the Christians yea though it were the Picture of Christe him selfe Yet these menne store al theire Temples and eche corner of them with painted and carued Images as though without them Religion were nothinge woorthe M. Hardinge To that ye pretende to allege out of Epiphanius we saie first that although he were of the minde you make him to be of and saide as you reporte of him yet is he but one man whose singular opinion is not to be preferred before the Iudgemēt of al other so many excellent Fathers and the determination of the whole Churche Nowe in deede you misreporte Epiphanius For he saithe not so as your write He calleth not the hauing of the Image of Christe of any Saincte in the Churche an horrible wickednesse or a sinne not to be suffered he hath no sutch wordes Secondly what if we saie this place maketh nothinge at al againste the vse of Images and that he speaketh neuer a woorde againste the Image of Christe or his Sainctes in the Churche but onely againste one particular Image whiche he founde hanginge at a Churche dore in a village of Palestine called Anablatha And seing he speaketh not generally againste al Images but against sutche as that was which there he noteth by this special word Istiusmodi Vela vailes of this sorte he geueth vs to vnderstande that he misliked some qualitie or circumstance of that one Image and not reproued the common and receiued custome of the Churche in hauing Images in due order Now what circumstance that was it dependeth of so many particularities whiche might happen either on the Images parte as it is moste like or on the peoples parte there inhabitant and is so litle declared by Epiphanius in that place that neither we can saie any thinge determinately thereof nor ye should bring sutche an obscure and vncertaine matter to the disproufe of a veritie alwaies so wel in the Churche acknowledged and practised The B. of Sarisburie O how many and howe prety shiftes here be diuised if any woulde healpe to serue the pourpose One of the late Louanian Cleregie for that he sawe these woordes were cleare and might not be auoided by any Glose therefore be thought it the wisest waie Firste to bringe the Authoritie and credite hereof in question and to saie that Epiphanius neuer wrote any sutche Epistle Nexte he saith The same Epistle was neuer translated by S. Hierome But for as mutche as he sawe that his folie herein was open and easy to be controlled Thirdely he saithe that the Image that Epiphanius rente in sunder was not the Image either of Christe or of any Christian Saincte but the Heathen Image of Iuppiter or Hercules or somma other Idole he knoweth not what Fourthly he saithe The saide Holy Father Epiphanius was an Heretique one of those that were called Anthropomorphitae whose erroure was That God in his Diuinitie had the whole shape and proportion of a Man How be it this folie far passeth al the reste For it behoued those Heretiques moste of al others for defense of their erroure to maineteine Images And yet it seemeth a very vnciuile parte to condemne so Reuerende so Godly a Father of so grosse an Heresie without prouse and specially sutche a Father as hath so learnedly written againste al Heresies Fifthly he saithe euen as M. Hardinge here saithe Epiphanius was but a man one man and his Iudgemente singulare and therefore the lesse to be estéemed Laste of al he saithe The same Holy Father Epiphanius was a Ievve and beinge a Christian and a Reuerende Father and a Christian Bishop yet notwithstandinge maineteined the Religion of the Iewes and therefore rente in sunder the Image of Christe in despite of Christe And for proufe hereof he allegeth Simeon Metaphrastes a Doctoure as wise as him selfe M. Hardinge for that he imagined these shiftes were very vnsauery woulde hardly serue therefore hath diuised to conueigh him selfe out somme other waie Firste he saithe Wée falsiste this
Behold by the Varietie wee vnderstande the Diuersitie of Tongues and by the Apparel wee vnderstande the Vnitie of y◠Churche Againe he saith Distant inter se Linguae Sed Linguarum distantiae non sunt schismata Tongues are diuided one from an other But the Diuision of Tongues is no Schisme or Diuision in Religion The Apologie Cap. 3. Diuision 10. The olde Councel at Carthage commaunded that nothing should be read in Christes Congregation but the Canonical Scriptures these menne reade sutche thinges in their Churches as them selues knowe for a Truthe to be starke Lies and fonde Fables M. Hardinge A man were better I assure thee good Reader to make two newe Bookes then to correcte one so ful of lies and falsefied places as this Apologie is This olde Councel of Carthage is newely falsefied by our new Cleregie The wordes of the Councel are these Palcuit vt praeter scripturas Canonicas nihil in Ecclesia legatur sub nomine Diuinarum Scripturatum It hath semed good vnto vs that besides the Canonical Scriptures nothinge be read in the Churche vnder the name of the holy Scriptures They leauinge out these foure woordes sub nomine Diuinarum Scripturarum Vnder the name of Diuine Scriptures woulde beare men in hande the Councel willed nothinge to be read in the Churche besides the holy Scriptures Are not these trusty men to whom ye may committe the charge of your soules for your faith and saluation It foloweth in the same decree Liceat etiam Legi passiones Martyrum cùm anniuersarij dies celebrantur Let it be lawful also for the Martyrdomes of Martyrs to be read when theire yerely festes are kept And yet dare they not onely to saie nothing must be read besides the Scriptures but also to alleage that very place for that special lie whiche saithe the contrary Looke in the Booke thy selfe good reader and see how falsely they handle so holy matters An other lie is when they saie we reade those thinges in the Churche whiche our selues knowe to be starke lies and funde fables VVhen they cannot them selues shewe that we haue any sutche it is a vaine lieing rhetorike to saie we doubt not of it or knowe it our selues for a truthe I wonder not if they blushe not in belieng vs who haue belied so many Scriptures Councels and fathers The B. of Sarisburie It standeth wel with your Truthe M. Hardinge so often to charge vs with Lies Falsehedde I truste it wil appeare ye had no great cause to keepe so great reuel vpon so poore a Conqueste In deede these woordes be not founde in the thirde Councel of Carthage Yet are they founde in the Councel of Hippo whiche is the Abbridgemente of the thirde Councel of Carthage as it appeareth by the Title of the same Concilij Hipponensis Abbreuiationes factae in concilio carthaginensi Tertio The woordes of the Councel of Hippo and for so mutche also of the thirde Councel of Carthage be these Scripturae Canonicae in Ecclesia legendae quae sunt praeter quas alia non legantur The Scriptures Canonical whiche are to read in the Churche and besides whiche nothinge els maie be read Here haue you M. Hardinge the plaine woordes of the Councel of Hippo abberidged out of the thirde Councel of Carthage That nothinge maie be read in the Churche but onely the Canonical Scriptures Iudge you therefore howe iuste cause ye had so vnaduisedly for I vate not to saie so vnlearnedly to charge the Apologie with Lies and Falsehedde Hereto maie wée adde the like Decrée of the Councel holden at Laodicea Sabbatjs Euangelia cum alijs Scripturis legenda esse censemus Wee agree that the Gospel with others Scriptures be read vpon the Saboth daie If these woordes séeme not sufficiente it foloweth further in the same Councel Non oportet Libros qui sunt extra Canonem legere nisi solos Canonicos Veteris Noui Testamenti We maie not reade any Bookes that be without the Canon but onely the Canonical Bookes of the Olde and Nevve Testamente To like effecte Chrysostome saith Ideò Christus meusas nummulariorum euertit Significans quòd in Templo Dei nō debent esse nummi nisi Spirituales id est qui Dei imaginem habent Therefore Christe ouerthrewe the Exchangers bakes Meaninge thereby that there maie be no Come in the Churche but onely Spiritual that is to saie that beareth the Image of God Againe he saithe Lectorum officium erat in Ecclesia Sacra Legere ex Scriptis vel Prophetarum vel Apostolorum It was the Readers office to pronounce holy thinges vnto the people out of either the Apostles or Prophetes Erasmus saithe Apparet non nisi Apostolicas Literas olim Legi solitas in Templis aut certè Vitorum Apostolicae Authoritatis It appeareth that in olde time nothinge was vsed to be read in the Churches but onely the Apostles Writinges or at leaste the Writinges of sutche others as were of Apostolical Authoritie Likewise saithe Abbas Ansigisus reportinge the Ecclesiastical Decrees of the Frenche Kinges Levves Charles In Templis tantùm Canonici Libri id est Sacrae Literae legantur Let there he read in the Churches onely the Canonical Bookes that is to saie the Holy Scriptures An other lie Ye saie is this when they saie wee reade those thinges in the Churche whiche our selues knowe to be starke lies and fonde Fables For trial hereof wee shal not néede to trauaile far Your owne Bookes and Legendes are prouse sufficiente Erasmus thereof saithe thus Hodiè quorumlibet somnia imò mulietcularum Deliramenta leguntur inter diuinas Scripturas Nowe a daies euery fooles Dreames yea very wee mennes doctinge fansies are read with the Holy Scriptures Likewise saithe Polydore Vergil Multorum Diuorum vitas recitant tametsi parùm ad Fidem Scriptas They reade many Sainctes Liues although not written accordinge to Truthe Ludouicus Viues writtinge of your Legenda Aurea whiche was the Mother of al your deuoute Ecclesiastical stories or Fables saithe thus Nescio cur Aurea dici debeat cùm scripta sit ab homine ferrei oris plumbei Cordis plenissima sit impudentissimis Mendacijs I see no cause why it shoulde be called the Goulden Legende seeinge it was written by a man of an iron face and a ledden harte and is freight ful of most shamelesse lies If ye knewe not these thinges M. Hardinge your frendes wil thinke ye knowe nothinge Sutche Truthes yée reade and publishe deuoutly and solemnely in your Churches Yet maie wée neither saie nor thinke yée mocke the people The Apologie Cap. 4. Diuision 1. But if there be any that thinke these aboue rehersed Authorities be but weake and selender bicause thei were decreed by Emperours certaine petite Bishoppes and not by so ful perfite Councelles takinge pleasure rather in the Authoritie and name of the Pope let
our belefe no we preached and receiued in the Catholike Church ‡ neither shoulde be altered ‡ nor coulde be bettered ‡ For it is the same he taught him selfe And that we doubt not of it accordinge to his promise he hath sente the holy Ghoste to enforme the Churche of al truthe Remember you not who saide I am God and am not changed againe that the worde of God remaineth for euer This beinge true it is euident that we haue the sound and weighty wheate whiche no persecution of tyraunces and blasies of heretikes no contagion of euil manners for these fiften hundred yeeres could either blowe from the floore of our Lordes berne the Churche or corrupt VVe haue accordinge to the Apostles counsel kepte that hath ben committed vnto vs. VVe haue enioyed the fountaine of the water of life Ye charge vs soare that we haue plucked awaie from the people the holy communion the worde of God the true worshippinge of God the right vse of Sacramentes and praier VVho so euer taketh these fiue awaie wherein chiefly standeth our saluation the same is Antichrist VVere not that ye haue already done so mutche for vs as the worlde maie take you for impudente liers we would not quietly beare so greauous a matter But nowe that ye haue tried your selues so false of your worde we litle esteme it your railinge is no slaunder Lastly concerninge praier what hath ben ordeined by our holy forefathers of al ages directed with the sprite of God for the maintenance and encrease of it to Gods honoure al that in fewe yeres by the instincte of Sathan to promote his Kingedome ye haue vtterly abolished and by wicked violence brought the people from deuotion to a carelesse idlenesse from speaking to God with hartes and lippes to ‡ a spiritual dummesse from praiers ‡ to chapters from holy thinkinge to ‡ vnprofitable harkeninge Ye can not abyde salte water oyle palme the crosse incense c. no maruel No more can not the deuil who possesseth you and rideth you and after his owne wil driueth you from truthe from Christen Religion and from al Godlines VVere it so that your sprite coulde a waie with those thinges then were it not agreeing with his sprite Vntil ye geue place to the spirit of God who maie driue out of you the spiritie of Sathan we looke to heare no better tidinges of you The B. of Sarisburie Ye were sommewhat angrie M. Hardinge when ye thus besturred your selfe It pitieth me in your behalfe Christe and his Apostles yée saie neuer ruled the Churche in better order then it is nowe ruled by the Pope and his Cardinalles Euen so might they haue saide that had turned the House of God into a Caue of Theeues One of your frendes saith Apostolorū temporibus rudis adhuc erat Ecclesia In the time of the Apostles the Churche as yet was rude and Barbarous and out of order And being afterward reproued for his blasphemous speache he answeared lewdly in his pleasance Rudis indigestaqueue moles Others of you saie Christus in Coelo praesidet Papa in Terris residet Christe ruleth in Heauen the Pope in Earthe An other saithe Omnes Sanctiones Sedis Apostolicae sic accipiendae sunt tanquam ipsius Diuina voce Petri firmatae Al the Lawes of the Apostolique see of Rome muste so be taken as if they were confirmed by the Diuine voice of Peter him selfe An other saith Sicut ostium regitur Cardine ita Ecclesia Romana regitur Consilio Cardinalium As the doore is ruled by the hooke so is the Churche of Rome ruled by the Counsel of Cardinalles Therefore the Pope him selfe saithe thus vnto them Vos eritis Senatores vrbis Regum similes veri Mundi Cardines super quos militantis ostium Ecclesiae voluendum regendum est Ye shal be the Senatours of my Cittie and like vnto Kinges the very bookes and staies of the worlde vpon whom the very doore of y◠Churche Militante muste be turned and ruled Sutche are they whom S. Hierome imagineth thus to saie Non est Vir in domo Non est Christus Corporaliter in Ecclesia Surgens enim à mortuis Ascendit in Coelum nobisque Ministerium gubernandae Ecclesiae suam videlicet Domum reliquit My Husbande is not at home That is to saie Christe is not nowe Corporally in the Churche For beinge risen from the deade he is Ascended into Heauen and hath leafte vnto vs the gouernmente of his Churche that is the whole orderinge of his House True it is as you saie God is one and is not Changed And his Woorde endureth for euer But the Change is in you and not in God Goddes Woorde is the Woorde of Life your Woorde is the Woorde of Vanitie God the Father hath not planted it Therefore it shal be plucked vp by the rootes God saithe by the Prophete Malachie The lippes of the Prieste shal keepe knowledge and the people shal require the Lawe at his mouthe For he is the Angel of the Lorde of Hostes Vos autem recessistis de Via c. But you are gonne backe from the VVaie you haue offended many a one in the Lavve you haue broken the Couenante of Leui saith the Lord of Hostes And therefore haue I made you to be despised Yee haue changed the moste parte of the Apostles Doctrine And of al that euer they ordeined yée haue in a manner leafte nothinge standinge S. Bernarde saithe of your owne Churche of Rome A planta pedis vsque ad verticem Capitis non est sanitas vlla From the sole of the foote vnto the Crowne of the heade there is not one whole place And yet ye beare vs strongely in hande that Christe and his Apostles neuer ruled the Churche in better order then it is nowe ruled by the Pope and his Cardinalles Al the reste of your emptie talke is answeared sufficiently before Yet one pange of your Eloquence I maie not in any wise leaue vntouched Thus ye saie By the instincte of Satan ye haue brought the people from deuotion to carelesse idlenesse from speakinge to God with hartes and lippes to a spiritual doumbenesse from Praiers to Chapters from Holy thinking to vnprofitable hearkeninge If I were not wel acquainted with your speache M. Hardinge I could not thinke ye would so vnaduisedly bestowe your woordes I doubte not but euen hereby it shal soone appeare whether of vs hath wilfully broken the Apostles Orders refused the Godly Examples of the Holy Primitiue Churche of God Yee telle vs that the Readinge of the Scriptures vnto the people in the Churche of God is a Spiritual doumbenesse and a thinge vnprofitable as onely diuised of our selues and that as you saie by the instincte of Sathan and neuer before either knowen or vsed by any Catholique Learned Father Yet the Aunciente Father Origen saithe Iudaicarum Historiarum Libri traditi sunt ab Apostolis Legendi in
that he heareth loseth the thinge that he heareth Therefore the Pope him selfe in his Pontifical géeueth this special Charge vnto the Reader Stude Lectiones Sacras distinctè apertè proferre ad Intelligentiam aedificationem Fidelium Endeuoure thee selfe to pronounce the Holy Lessons or Chapters distinctely and plainely not to a Spiritual doumbenesse but to the vnderstandinge and profite of the Faitheful Touching the Praiers that the simple people maketh in a tongue vnknowen Christe saithe This people honoureth me with theire lippes But theire hartes are far from mee The Apologie Cap. 9. Diuision 2. In these thinges haue they set al theire Religion teachinge the people that by the same God maie be duely pacified Spirites be driuen awaie and mens consciences wel quieted M. Hardinge VVhat shal I saie to al this but that ye lie I would saie as the manner is Sauing your worshippes but that your often and vnshamefaste lieing hath quite taken awaie from you al opinion of honestie Al Christes Religion whiche we professe consisteth not in these thinges neither by these be mennes consciences quieted By certaine of these euil and impure sprites be driued awaie in deede VVhich here by sundry Aunciente recordes and Testimonies I woulde declare to be moste true were it not wel yenough knowen by daily experience But as for you whereas neither Breade nor VVater nor Crosse driueth you awaie it semeth ye are worse to be coniured then the deuil himselfe Many of your secte Catholike Princes haue founde so stubborne as they could yet neuer ridde theire Countries of them but by coniuration of fire The B. of Sarisburie Yée saie yée ye neuer sought to quiet mennes Cōsciences by Oile Water Palmes c. And therefore ye stande vp a tipps toe and in your familiare manner crie oute yee lie For shorte trial hereof one example maie suffice in stéede of many Augustine Steuchus one of your special and woorthy Doctoures saithe thus Aquas Sale Orationibus Sanctificamus vt ad earum Aspersum nostra deleātur delicta We halowe VVater with Salte and Praiers that by the Sprinkelinge thereof our sinnes maie be foregeeuen Reade your owne Pontifical and ye shal finde in the halowinge of your VVater your Asshes your Palmes your Candels c. this clause euermore in the ende Vt sint nobis ad Salutem Animae Corporis That they maie be to vs to the Saluation of Body and soule Whereas in the ende ye vaunte your selfe of your Crueltie and so pleasantly make Sporte with the Bloude of your Brethern take it not for il if I answeare you with the Woordes of Salomon Viscera impiorum crudelia The bowelles of the wicked be alwaies cruel Therein M. Hardinge standeth your greateste puissance If ye were no better armed with Fire and Svverde then ye be with Scriptures and Doctoures no wise man woulde greately feare your force As for vs wée maie answeare you now as S. Cyprian sommetime answeared the Heathens Nobis ignominia non est pati à Fratribus quod passus est Christus neque vobis gloria est facere quod fecit Iudas It is no shame for vs to suffer of our Brethren the same violence that Christe suffered neither is it any praise for you to doo the same thinge that Iudas did Tertullian saith vnto your Fathers Crudelitas vestra gloria nostra est Semen est Sanguis Christianorum Your crueltie is our Glorie The Bloude of Christians is the seede of the Gospel I praie God al that innocente Bloude that hath benne sheadde in this cause be not required at your handes in the daie of Wrathe and at the declaration of the iuste iudgemente of God The Apologie Cap. 10. Diuision 1. For these lo be the oriente colours and Pretious sauours of Christian Religion these thinges dooth God looke vpon and accepteth thē thankefully these must cōme in place to be honoured must put quite awaie the Institutions of Christe of his Apostles And like as in times paste when wicked Kinge Ieroboam had taken from the people the right seruing of God had brought thē to woorship the Golden Calues leste perchaunce thei might afterward change theire minde and slippe awaie geatinge them againe to Ierusalem to the Temple of God there hee exhorted them with a longe tale to be stedfast saieinge thus vnto them O Israel these Calues be thy Goddes In this sorte commaunded your God you shoulde woorship him For it shoulde be wearisome and troublous for you to take vpon you a iourney so farre of yeerely to goe vp to Ierusalem there to serue and honoure your God Euen after the very same sorte when these menne had once made the Lawe of God of none effecte through theire owne Traditions fearinge that the people shoulde afterwarde open theire eies fal an other waie and shoulde sommewhence els seeke a surer meane of theire Saluation Iesu howe often haue they cried out This is the same woorshippinge that pleaseth God and whiche hee straitely requireth of vs and wherewith he wil be turned from his wrathe that by these thinges is conserued the Vnitie of the Churche that by these al sinnes be cleansed and consciences quieted and that who so departeth from these hath leafte vnto him selfe no hope of Euerlastinge Saluation For it were wearisome and troublous saie they for the people to resorte to Christe to the Apostles and to the Anciente Fathers and to obserue continually what theire wil and commaundement should be This ye maie see is to withdrawe the people of God from the Weake Elementes of the worlde from the leauen of the Scribes and Phariseis and from the Traditions of menne It were reason no doubte that Christes Commaundementes and the Apostles were remoued that these theire diuises might comme in place O iuste cause I promise you why that Anciente and so longe allowed Doctrine shoulde be nowe abolished and a newe Forme of Religion be brought into the Churche of God M. Hardinge It shoulde haue becomme Scoggin Patche Iolle Harry Pattenson or VVil Sommer to haue tolde this tale mutche better then your Superintendentships And if ye woulde nedes haue plaied the parte your selues it had ben more conuenient to haue donne it on the stage vnder a vices cote then in a booke set abrode to the worlde in defence of al your newe Englishe Churche Ye shal neuer make any reasonoble man beleue your scoffinge tale VVe esteme litle your railinge comparison with your spiteful woordes and so mutche deuilishe villany The Apologie Cap. 10. Diuision 2. And yet whatsoeuer it be these menne crie stil that nothing ought to be changed that mens mindes are wel satisfied here withal that the Churche of Rome the Churche whiche cannot erre hath decreed these thinges For Syluester Prieriàs saith that the Romishe Churche is the Squier and Rule of Truthe that the Holy Scripture hath receiued from thence Authoritie and Credite The Doctrine saith he
paterne of the Apostles and Olde Fathers times as though thei al hadde benne voide of vnderstandinge Doo these menne weene yee see more or sette more by the Churche of God then thei did who firste deliuered vs these thinges M. Hardinge Softe and faire Sir Defender you haue not yet proued that you saie is manifeste and out of al peraduenture Remember you not the olde homely verse of youre sophistrie Neque negatiuis rectè concludere si vis Speake to the pourpose or els I woulde you woulde make an ende of youre filly follies For in deede you trifle and saie nothinge worth to be answeared And here litle cause doo you minister vnto me to vtter substantial stuffe VVhiche I desire the discrete Reader to consider for mine excuse that with a trifler I doo also but trifle The B. of Sarisburie Here M. Hardinge by youre owne confession yee doo but trifle with youre Filly follies for that I trowe youre substantial and better stuffe was not yet ready The Apologie Cap. 15. Diuision 3. In deede we haue renounced that churche wherein wee could neither haue the Woorde of God sincerely taught nor the Sacramentes rightly administred nor the name of God duely called vpon Whiche churche also them selues confesse to bee faulty in many pointes And wherein was nothinge hable to staie any wise man or one that hath consideration of his owne safetie M. Hardinge And why haue ye renounced this Churche but for that ye might not be suffered to sette foorthe to the losse of Christen soules the detestable heresies of VVicklef Luther Zuinglius Caluine and other youre false Maisters whiche ye cal youre sincere woorde of God after youre Schismatical and Heretical manner That ye saie there was nothinge in the Catholique Churche hable to staie any wise man or any that hath consideration of his safetie it is one of youre impudent lies There were bothe wise menne in the Churche and greate multitudes of sutche as hadde good regarde of their soule healthe alwaies before the Deuil hadde sutche a hande vpon Luther and the reste of youre newe Apostles and Apostates The Apologie Cap. 15. Diuision 4. To conclude wee haue foresaken the churche as it is nowe not as it was in Olde times paste and haue so gonne from it as Daniel went out of the Lions Denne and the three children out of the Furnesse and to saie the truthe we haue benne caste out by these menne beinge cursed of them as thei vse to saie with Booke Bel and Candel rather then haue gonne awaie from them of our selues M. Hardinge The Churche that nowe is and the Churche that was in Olde time is one Churche as a man in his olde age is the same man he was in his youthe From the whiche Churche no faultes or unperfections can excuse you for youre departinge Neither haue ye gone from it as Daniel was deliuered out of the Lions Denn◠nor as the three Children out of the Furnesse but ye haue departed wilfully from the house of God where touchinge Faithe al be of one accorde vnto the Synagog of Antichriste vnto Babylon of Sectes where is no order but confusion vnto the kingdome of Satan and there ye remaine as it were in a Denne of Lions where that roring Lion with his fellowes lieth in waite seckinge whom he maie deuoure Ye haue stepped from the place of Spiritual refrigerie into the frieinge panne of Schismes and Heresies and from thence after that ye haue nowe boyled and fried in malice and rancoure againste the Churche excepte ye repent ye are like to leape into the Furnesse of Hel that for euer shal tormente you and neuer consume you Complaine not of youre castinge out of the Churche To be excommunicate ye haue deserued And that kinde of punishement is by a merciful discipline extended vpon you partly for your amendement partly to conserue the reste of the body whole from youre pestiferous contagion The B. of Sarisburie Nowe yee beginne to keepe Hote Schooles M. Hardinge You re Frieinge pannes and Furnesses with other youre like Kitchin implementes of Frieinge and Boilinge are hote and dangerous to deale withal The causes of oure departure from you are answeared before The Churche ye saie that nowe is and the Churche that was in Olde times is one Churche Euen so as I shewed you before the Moone beinge ful and the same Moone eclipsed is one Moone Euen so a Man wel aduised and the same Man starke madde is one Man Euen so the house of God and a Caue of theeues is one House Yee haue Excommunicate vs and put vs from you So did certaine of youre Predecessours and Fathers Excommunicate Christe and his Apostles So did Diotrephes that firste claimed your Papale Primacie Excommunicate the Faithful of Christe that were the Firste Planters of the Gospel So it is written in the Apocalyps that Antichriste shal Excommunicate al them that wil not Adoure the Image of the Beaste The Pope him selfe saithe Excommunicatus non potest Excommunicare He that is Excommunicate him selfe hath no Right or Power to Excommunicate others And in youre owne Lawe it is written thus Qui illicitè alium Excommunicat seipsum non illum condemnat He that vnlawefully Excommunicateth an other Condemneth not him but him selfe S. Augustine saithe Quid obest homini si eum de illa Tabula delere velit Humana ignorantia quem de Libro viuentium non delet iniqua conscientia What is a man the woorse if the ignorance of a man strike him out of the Booke of the Churche if il Conscience strike him not oute of the Booke of Life In this case S. Augustine saithe It commeth sommetimes to passe Vt plurimae sint Foris oues plurimi sint Intus Lupi That there be many Sheepe without the Churche and many Woulues within the Churche The Apologie Cap. 15. Diuision 5. And wee are comme to that Churche wherein thei them selues cannot denie if thei wil saie truely and as thei thinke in their owne conscience but al thinges bee gouerned purely and reuerently and as mutche as wee possibly coulde very neere to the order vsed in the olde time M. Hardinge Ye are come vnto the malignant Churche to the Congregation of Reprobates whither as into a sincke in maner al the Heresies that Satan euer raised vp from the beginning be auoided The Apologie Cap. 16. Diuision 1. Let them compare oure Churches and theirs togeather and thei shal see that them selues haue moste shamefully gonne from the Apopostles and wee moste iustely haue gonne from them For wee folowinge the Example of Christe of the Apostles and the Holy Fathers geeue the people the Holy Communion Whole and perfite But these menne contrarie to al the Fathers to al the Apostles and contrarie to Christe him selfe doo seuer the Sacramentes and plucke away the one parte from the people and that with moste notorious Sacrilege as Gelasius termeth it Wee haue broughte againe
the Churche is his onely Spouse and not the Popes S. Augustine saithe vnto Christe Tu Petro non dixisti Palce Oues tuas sed Pasce Oues meas Thou saidste not vnto Peter Feede thy Sheepe but Feede mine Peter belongeth vnto the Churche but the Churche belongeth not vnto Peter The Churche is not the Popes Vine It is the Vine of the Lorde of Sabaoth It shal be sufficiente for the Pope if he maie be onely a branche in this Vine if he be not withered if he be not cutte of and throwen into the fiere S. Augustine saith Qui hoc animo pascunt Oues Christi vt Suas velint esse non Christi se conuincuntur amare non Christum vel gloriandi vel dominandi vel acquirendi cupiditate They that feede the Sheepe of Christe to that ende that they woulde haue them to be theire Sheepe and not Christes are founde to loue them selues and not Christe for desire either of Glorie or of Gouernemente or of Gaine The Apologie Cap. 4. Diuision 2. Howe saie ye doo wee diuise these tales Is not this the very course of the Councelles in these daies Are not al thinges remoued from the whole holy Councel and brought before the Pope alone that as thoughe nothinge had benne donne to pourpose by the indgementes and consentes of sutch a number he alone maie adde alter diminishe disanulle allowe remitte qualifie what so euer he liste Whose woordes be these then And why haue the Bishoppes Abbates in the laste Councel at Tridente but of late concluded thus in th ende Sauinge alvvaies the Authoritie of the See Apostolique in al thinges Or why dooth Pope Paschale write so proudely of him selfe As though saithe he there vvere any General Councel hable to prescribe a Lavve to the Churche of Rome vvhereas al Councelles both haue benne made and haue receiued their force and strength by the Authoritie of the Churche of Rome and in ordinaunces made by Councels is euer plainely excepted the Authoritie of the Romaine Bishop If they wil haue these thinges allowed for good why be Councelles called But if they commaunde them to be voide why are they leafte in theire Bookes as thinges allowable M. Hardinge Sir what neeede you bestowe so mutche talke in vaine Is 〈◊〉 not reason the members acknoweledge the heade VVoulde you the members to worke their actions without the heade Is Pope Paschalis to be called proude for preferringe the Churche of Rome before a Councel Haue not Councels euer ben thought to lacke theire ful Auctoritie whiche were not called and confirmed by the Bishop of Rome The B. of Sarisburie The Modestie and Sobrietie of Pope Paschalis claime shal better appeare in the nexte Diuision Verily the Churche of Rome these many yéeres maie séeme to haue benne nothinge els but a Moother of Falsehed a Schoole of Pride Pope Nicolas saithe De Sedis Apostolicae iudicio nemini licet iudicare It is lawful for noman to iudge of the Popes Iudgemente And of late yéeres Pope Leo saide Papa habet Authoritatem super omnia Concilia The Pope hathe Authoritie ouer al Councelles That al lawful Councelles haue euermore benne summoned and confirmed by the Pope it is a mauifest and grosse vntruthe as hereafter it shal be opened more at large Where ye saie It is reason the Members shoulde acknowledge theire Heade For shame M. Hardinge and for your credites sake once leaue these vanities If the Pope be any parte of Goddes Churche he is a Member and not the Heade and the Faithful of the Churche of God are Christes Members and not the Popes The Apologie Cap. 5. Diuision 1. But be it so Let the Bishop of Rome alone be aboue al Councelles that is to saie let somme one parte be greater then the whole let him be of greatter Power let him be of more Wisedome then al his and in spite of Hieromes heade let the Authoritie of one Cittie be greatter then the Authoritie of the vvhole vvorlde M. Hardinge It is a common manner of this Defender what he must needes graunt to make a shewe in wordes as though it were free gifte So many times beggers wil seme gentilmen and paiers of debte wil seme geuers Let the Bishop of Rome saithe he alone be aboue al coūcels Sir he is so no thake to you Yet speake you like a liberal gentilman That is to saie let some one parte be greater then the whole No sir maugre your scoffinge heade parte shal not be greater then the whole but parte shal be greater then parte In a right sense is not the heade greater then the body the Bishop then his cleregy the * maister of a house more then his familie Neither is the Councel the whole pardy excepte your mery witte can deuise vs a whole body without a heade Let him be of greater power saie you And so he is Let him be of more wisedome then al his VVe saie not so It maie be that his Councel hath more learninge more knowledge and more wisedome then his onely person Albeit when we speake of that wisdome of the See Apostolike whiche is sure infallible and cannot erre we meane not onely the Popes singular person but the heade Pastoure and Bishop as he doth those thinges whiche perteine to that chaire that is to saie in asmutche as he procedeth not vpon his owne priuate iudgemente but by the instincte of the Holy Ghoste promised by Christe to his vicare VVhere you saie And in spite of Hieromes heade let the Authoritie of one Citie be greater them the Authoritie of the whole world we tel you that this you speake more spitefully then learnedly For S. Hierome in his epistle to Euagrius speaketh onely of a particular matter blaminge the custome of Rome where contrary to the custome of the whole world deacons in certaine cases were preferred before Priestes whereof we haue spoken before The B. of Sarisburie Sir defender ye saie speaketh like a Liberal Gentleman Againe yée saie No sir Maugre your scoffinge heade These and other like woordes M. Hardinge are sittinge and seemely for your personne and maie wel becomme your mery witte Where wee saie Let the Bishop of Rome be of greater povver then any General Councel yée answeare vs readily And so he is Where wée saie Let him be of more VVisedome then al other Bishoppes Yée answeare againe Wee saie not so As if yée woulde allowe the Pope Authoritie and Power without Wisedome Yet wise menne haue saide that Povver vvithout VVisedome is the kingedome of Folie Somme of your frendes haue saide Si Totus Mundus sententiaret in aliquo negotio contra Papam videtur quo'd standum esset Sententiae Papae If the whole worlde shoulde geeue sentence in any mater againste the Pope it seemeth wee ought rather to stande to the Popes iudgemente then to the Iudgemente of al the worlde Albertus Pigghi us saithe Certius est iudicium
not like to satisfie your longinge And yet they haue taken order for the amendemente of so many as they knowe Neither is any of the same about any point of our faithe but about thinges of lesse weight Your exaggeration of the termes so many so manifest so often confessed by them and so euident reporteth in one sentence your so many so manifest so often confuted by vs and so euident lies VVhen you folowe your hote humour and aske from what kinde of Idolatrie the Fathers of the Tridentine Councel haue reclaimed the people you go to farre VVhat so euer blasphemie ye vtter in bookes and Sermons against the adoration of the blessed Sacrament of the Aulter we knowe no kinde of Idolatrie vsed in the Churche Neither is any Idolatrie committed by vs in worshippinge of Sainctes in praieinge to them nor in the reuerence we exhibite to their Images as ye beare the people in hande As I can not wâ—l take a heare from your lieing bearde so wishe I that I could plucke malice from youre blasphemous harte The B. of Sarisburie Whether the Learned menne of oure side were shut te out from the right and libertie of youre Councel or no it maie soone appeare partly by that is already saide partly by that shal be saide hereafter Verily the Pope for his Premunire wil not suffer any Bishop to geeue voice in Councel on lesse he haue him firste solemnely sworne to the See of Rome and therefore they be al called his Creatures So Cicero saithe Verres when he hadde bribed and spoiled the whole Ilelande of Sicilia thought it not good to suffer his name or any parte of his dooinges to comme in hazarde but onely before a Iudge or Arbiter of his owne Therefore the Frenche Kinges Embassadoure as it is saide before protested thus openly euen in your saide Councel Minùs legitima minusque libera dicuntur fuisse illa Concilia qui aderant ad voluntatem alterius semper loquebantur These Councelles are coumpted neither so free nor so laweful as they ought to bee they that were there spake euermore to please an other by whiche Other he meante the the Pope And for that cause the Emperoures Maiestie by his Embassadoure Hurtadus Mendoza solemnely protested againste the assemblie of the same Councel His woordes he these Ego Iacobus Hurtadus Mendoza uomine Pientissimi Inuictissimi Domini mei Caroli Caesaris Romani Imperatoris ex illius speciali mandato ac nomine totius Sacri Romani Imperij aliorumque Regnorum ac Dominiorum suorum protestor Nullam posse esse Authoritatem assetorum legatorum Sanctitatis Vestrae corum EpiscoporuÌ„ qui sunt Bononiae Sanctitati vestrae maiori ex parte obnoxiorum atque ab illius nutu omninò pendentium vt in Religionis morum Reformationis causa c. legem praescribant I lamas Hurtado Mendoza in the name of the most godly and most mighty Prince my Lord Charles the Romaine Emperour by his special CoÌ„mission and in the name of yâ— vvhole Romaine Empiere and al others his Realmes and Dominions doo proteste that the Authoritie of the pretensed Legates of youre holinesse and of sutche other Bishoppes as be nowe at Bononia vnto whiche towne the Councel of Trident was then adiourned for the moste parte bounde vnto youre Holinesse and wholy hanginge vpon youre becke is of no force namely to make Lawes in cause of ReformatioÌ„ of Religion and maners And that it maie appeare in what obedience seruile subiection al Bishoppes be vnto the Pope Aeneas Syluius otherwise called Pope Pius the Seconde saith thus Quo'd si Episcopus Papae contradicat etiam vera loquendo nihilominus peccat contra Iufiorandum Papae praestitum If a Bishop speake against the Pope yea although he speake the truthe yet neuerthelesse he sinneth againste the Othe that he hath made vnto the Pope Therefore where as at the late Conference at Norenberg it was required by the Princes and States of Germanie that al Bishoppes comminge to the Councel might bothe be discharged from theire Othe made to the Pope and also sworne to speake and to promote the Truthe the Popes Legate there made answeare in greate disdeigne that it might not so bee For that so the Popes handes should be bounde Hereby M. Hardinge a blinde man maie easily see the fourme and Freedome of youre Councelles If the Bishoppes be Free to saie the Truthe then is the Pope leafte in Bondage Whether youre Fathers in the Chapter at Tridente sate there sixe whole Moonethes debatinge and reasoning about the Trinitie or no of certaine knowledge I cannot telle But certainely what thinge els they did either in al that time or longe after you can hardely shewe vs. Therefore if they did not this for as mutche as nothinge els appeareth of theire dooinges wee must imagine thei sate mute in a Muminerie and saide nothinge Notwithstandinge Cassander saithe thei bestowed one whole Sommer in greate and holy Disputations aboute meaner maters then the Trinitie I meane onely about the Communion of the Cuppe Martinus Kemnitius saithe Thei helde Disputations there and kepte greate sturre Seuen whole Moonethes togeather about the Iustification of Faith Workes yet in the end leaft it worse then thei founde it We saie You your selues haue espied mani disorders in your church of Rome as it is plain bi your ovvn Confessions To recken theÌ„ al in particular it were too long I haue partely touched theÌ„ heretofore Albertus Pigghius confesseth there be Abuses in your Masse The Frenche Kings Embassadour at youre laie Tridentine Chapter saithe thus Vel Praefectorum Ecclesiae incuria vel etiam ne quid grauius dicam praepostera Pietate irrepsisse in Ecclesiam res nonnullas Antiquatione Abrogatione vel Moderatione dignas fateamur necesse est Wee must needes confesse that either by the negligence of the Bishoppes or by some disordered opinion of Holinesse for I wil saie no more he meaneth falsehed and Mockerie and Wiltal Auarice certaine thinges are brought into the Churche woorthy either to be put awaie and abolished or at leaste to be qualified Picus Mirandula besoughte Pope Leo. 10. to abate the vaine Multitude of youre Ceremonies to refourme youre Praiers and to cut of youre Fables One of youre owne Louanian Felovves saithe Euen nowe a daies many good menne mislike so many Appeales to Rome Somme others finde faulte with your Pardonnes Somme with youre Simonie some with youre Stevves somme with youre licenceous keepinge and mainteininge of Concubines I wil not enlarge the mater further These and other like thinges are confessed by youre selues Other greater maters I wil not touche For in cases of Faith for your credites sake ye maie graunte no manner Erroure For otherwise it might be thought yee haue neither the Faith nor the Life of Christian menne Nowe therefore tel vs M. Hardinge what one Abuse of al the Abuses in your Masse what one
not as a cause of Foregeuenesse to be obteined Your very Glose saithe Apud Graecos Confessio non est necessaria quia non emanauit ad illos Traditio talis Emong the Christians in Graecia Confession of Sinnes is not necessarie for that this Tradition neuer came emonge them Yet M. Hardinge I trowe yee wil not saie but theire sinnes maie be foregeuen Certainely Chrysostome saithe Solus te Deus confitentem videat Let God onely see thee making the Confession of thy Sinnes It was very mutche therefore M. Hardinge for you so assuredly and so precisely to saie that sinnes can neuer be foregeuen without your Priuie Confession and specially thereby to proue the Vniuersal Headeship of the Pope The Apologie Cap. 11. Diuision 3. Bisides also that God by his Prophetes often and earnestly commaundeth the King to cutte downe the Groues to breake downe the Images and Aultars of Idoles and to Write out the Booke of the Lavve for him self and bisides that the Prophete Esaias saith a Kinge ought to be a Patrone and a Nurse of the Churche c. M. Hardinge Your seconde argumente for the Ecclesiastical Power of Kinges is because God bad them to cut downe superstitious groues and ouerthrowe idols as though this were not an office of executinge a commaundemente rather then of decreeinge any thinge The Authoritie to discerne an image of Christ from an idol of the deuil belongeth to them who knowe that an image is a name of art which is of God an idol is a name of false woorshippinge whiche is of the Deuil So that an image is godly and idol deuilishe VVhen the Prieste hath iudged this or that to be an idol or when it is euident that so it is then the kinge shal do wel to breake it downe But if the Kinge wil breake downe the image of Christe when the Priest telleth him it is a godly representation and no idol then the Kinge dothe more then his office requireth And shal not onely not proue his supremacie but also shal incurre danger to be reiected of God as Kinge Saul was when he despised to keepe the commaundement of Samuel the high Prieste VVhereas you alleage for a Kinges Ecclesiastical Power that he was commaunded to write out the Booke of the lawe for him selfe why lefte ye out that whiche foloweth there immediately accipiens exemplar à Sacerdotibus Leuiticae tribus The Kinge muste write out a Booke of the Deuteronomie but the example thereof he must receiue of the Priestes that be of the tribe of Leut. If in spiritual matters the Kinge were aboue the Priestes why had he not the Kepinge of the Lawe in his owne handes VVhy muste he take it of the Priestes why did not rather the Priestes come to him sith the inferiour taketh al his right of the superiour If the Priestes muste geue the holy scripture vnto the Kinge then verely muste he take sutche as they geue him and with such meaning as they geue vnto it So that if you had not falsefied the meaninge of Gods woorde by leauinge out halfe the sentence this place had proued againste you It is to be weyed to what ende a Kinge is required to haue and to reade that holy Booke Verely not to take vpon him the parte of a iudge in causes of Religion but as there it is expressed to thintent he learne to feare his Lorde God and kepe his woordes and ceremomonies in the lawe commaunded and that his harte be not lifted vp into pride aboue his brethren c. I omitte that you reade Librum legis whereas the Churche readeth Deuteronomium * it were too longe to enter into that disputation The booke of the lawe signifieth the whole law the Deuteronomie is but one of the fiue bookes VVhere Esaie calleth a Kinge a Patrone of the Churche I haue not founde But were it he called him so it betokeneth that he shoulde defende the Churche from worldly ennimies as in repellinge the Turkes in expellinge Heretikes and sutche like Kingely actes VVhiche proueth no spiritual supremacie but vnder God a fealtie and seruiceable power I finde where Esaie saith Et erunt Reges nutricij tui Reginae nutrices tuae Kinges shal be thy fosterers and Quenes thy nourses But not euery nourse or fosterer is aboue him who is nourished A faitheful seruant oftentimes fostereth the maister Yet is he not aboue his maister Besides S. Hierome vnderstandeth the Kinges whom Esaie nameth to be the Apostles accordinge to whiche sense it maketh nothinge to the purpose it is alleaged for The B. of Sarisburie Al Christian Princes are mutche beholden to you M. Harding yée make them so like to Polyphemus y◠Giante after his eies were striken out that is to saie to a man mighty in body and greate in boanes but starke blinde and no waie hable to guide him selfe A King yée saie maie not take vpon him to Iudge or Pronounce in maters of Religion bee they neuer so cleare but onely must hearken be ready to execute what so euer shal be thought good and commaunded by your Bishoppes as if he were onely your Bishoppes man So saithe your Holy Father Pope Bonifacius 8. Gladius Materialis exercendus est manu Regum Militum Sed ad nutum patientram Sacerdotis The Material or Temporal Swerde muste be vsed by the hande of Kinges and Souldiers but at the becke and sufferance of the Prieste By which Prieste he meaneth the Pope But Dauid saithe Now yee Kinges haue vnderstanding Be learned yee that iudge the Earthe Good Kinges haue oftentimes refourmed Religion and haue lawfully controlled and corrected and deposed idle and wicked Bishoppes as before in place conueniente it is largely proued The Emperoure Iustinian threateneth if the Bishop offended in saieing the publique seruice or in the Ministration of the Sacramentes that then he him selfe woulde vse his Authoritie ouer him and see him pounished Franciscus Zarabella saith that for any crime notorious the Emperour maie summone the Pope to appeare before his Maiestie and maie require him to yelde a reckening of his Faithe And yet wil yée saie The Emperoure is stil the Popes man and maie iudge nothinge in Causes of Religion without him The Kinge yée saie is not hable to Iudge whether an Idole be an Idole or no but by the leadinge and teachinge of the Prieste So wel yée wishe al Christian Princes were instructed that thei should not be hable either to sée or to speake without you But what if you Priestes saie as it hath often happened God is an Idole an Idole is God Light is Darkenesse and Darkenesse is Light what if they saie Greate is Diana the Goddesse of Ephesus What if they condemne the innocente and saie as they smometime saide of Christe Onlesse this man were a malefactoure wee woulde neuer haue brought him to thy hande Yet muste the Prince
saithe Nec ego cuiusuis Episcopi mendacium quamuis ditissimi Veritati praeponam Pauperis Presbyteri Nec dedignari debet Episcopus si aliquando ignarus rudis sequacem non habeat multitudineÌ„ Neither wâ—l I sette more by any Bishoppes lie be he neuer so riche then I woulde sette by any Priestes Truthe be he neuer so poore Neither more the ignorante and vnlearned Bishop disdeigne if he see the people va willinge to folowe him Gerson saith Iudicium Conclusio Fidei licet Authoritatiue specteÌ„t ad Praelatos Doctores spectare tamen possunt ad alios quà m Theologos Deliberatio sicut Cognitio super his quae Fidem respiciunt Ita vt ad Laicos etiam hoc possit extendi plùs aliquando quà m ad multos Clericorum Notwithstandinge the Iudgemente and Conclusion of Faithe belonge by Authoritie vnto Bishoppes and Doctours yet as wel the Deliberation hereof as also the knovvledge and Iudgemente concerninge maters that touche the Faithe maie belonge vnto others too bisides the Diuines or Doctoures and Professours of Diuinitie Yea it more sommetimes be extended euen vnto the Laiemenne And more sommetimes vnto them then vnto many Priestes The Emperoure Iustinian in Ecclesiastical Causes oftentimes vseth these woordes Definimus Mandamus lubemus c. Wee Determine wee Conclude wee Commaunde wee Bidde Touchinge Bishoppes he writeth thus Definimus vt nullus Deo amabilium Episcoporum foris a sua Ecclesia plus quà m per totum annum abesse audeat Wee Define or Determine that none of the Godly Bishoppes shal dare to be absent from his Church more then by the space of one whole yeere Here yée sée the Temporal Prince in an Ecclesiastical Cause saithe Definimus To be shorte Pope Nicolas him selfe saithe writinge vnto the Emperoure Michael Vbinam legistis Imperatores Antecessores vestros Synodalibus Contentionibus interfuisse Nisi fortè in quibusdam vbi de Fide tractatum est quae Vniuersalis est quae omnium Communis est quae non solùm ad Clericos verùm etiam ad Laicos ad omnes omninò pertinet Christianos VVhere haue you readde that your Predecessours being Emperours were euer Present at our Disputations in Councelles Onlesse happily it vvere in certaine cases vvhereas mater vvas moued touchinge the Faithe For Faithe is Vniuersal and Common to al and perteineth not onely vnto Priestes but also vnto Laiemen and generally and thorovvly to al Christians Thus yée see M. Hardinge by the Popes owne Iudgemente that Cases and Disputations of the Faithe belonge as wel to the Temporal Prince as to the Pope The Apologie Cap. 14. Diuision 5. Truely there had benne no neede to handle so plaine a mater as this is with so many woordes so at lengthe if wee had not to doo with those menne who for a desire they haue to striue and to winne the maisterie vse of course to denie al thinges be thei neuer so cleare yea the very same whiche they presently see and beholde with theire owne eies M. Hardinge The matter ye speake of is so cleare that from the beginninge of the worlde to this daie no secular Prince can be named who by the ordinary power of a Prince without the gifte of prophecie or special reuelation did laudably intermeddle with Religion as a iudge and ruler of spiritual causes The reason thereof is cleare Religion is an order of Diuine worshippinge belonginge to God onely whereupon no man hath power but he that is called thereto by God He is called in the iudgemente of men who can shewe his callinge out wardly as by consecration and imposition of handes Priestes and Bishops are called to be the dispensatours of the mysteries of God In that consecration the keies of knowledge and discretion the power of blindinge and loosinge is geuen If a secular Prince can not shewe the keies geuen to him howe dareth he aduenture to breake vp rather then to open the clasped booke of God the dore of the Churche and the gates of the Kingedome of heauen VVherefore S. Ambrose saide vnto Valentinian Quando audiuisti Imperator in causa Fidei Laicos de Episcopo iudicasse VVhen haste thou hearde Emperoure Laymen to haue ben iudges of a Bishop in the cause of Faithe And yet nowe these menne thinke that whiche S. Ambrose neuer hearde of not onely to haue ben vsed continually the firste fiue hundred yeres after Christes birthe but also to be as cleare a matter as if we behelde it with our eies The B. of Sarisburie The Temporal Prince yée saie hath not the Keies of the Kingdome of Heauen Ergo he maie not iudge in Ecclesiastical Causes nor geeue Definitiue Sentence in General Councel This is a very sely poore Argumente M. Hardinge as hereafter it shal appeare But S. Ambrose saithe vnto the Emperoure Valentinian When did your Maiestie euer heare that in a Cause of Faithe a Laiemenne were Iudges ouer Bishoppes Here M. Hardinge by the waie S. Amrbose géeueth you to vnderstande that onlesse it be in a Cause of Faithe a Laieman maie be Iudge ouer a Bishop whiche thinge is contrarie not onely to your Former Doctrine but also to the whole course and practise of your Churche of Rome Howe be it touchinge the meaning of these woordes it behoueth vs to knowe Firste the cause wherefore S. Ambrose so shunned and fledde the Emperours Iudgemente Nexte before what Iudges he desired to be tried First the Emperoure Valentinian at that time was very yonge as wel in Age as also in Faithe He was not yet Baptized He knewe not the Principles of Christes ReligioÌ„ He was an Arian Heretique and beleued not the Godhedde of Christe but bent al his studie and power to mainteine the Arians He woulde haue thruste out the Christianes woulde haue possessed the Heretiques in theire Churches and to that ende had raised his Power and filled Millaine ful of Souldiers He saide It was lawful for him to doo what him listed Briefely his whole dealinge was ful of force violence sutche as hath benne séene in somme Countries not many yéeres sithence In consideration hereof S. Ambrose woorthily refused him to be his Iudge And therefore he saide vnto him Tolle Legem si vis esse Cerramen Take awaie the rigoure of your Lavve if ye wil haue the mater tried by Disputation Againe Noli te grauare Imperator vt putes te in ea quae Diuina sunt Imperiale aliquod ius habere Noli te extollere Esto Deo subiectus Scriptum est quae Dei Deo quae Caesaris Caesari O my Lorde trouble not your selfe to thinke you haue any Princely Power ouer those thinges that perteine to God Vaunte not your selfe be subiecte vnto God It is written Geue vnto God that belongeth vnto God Geue vnto Caesar that belongeth vnto Caesar But as S. Ambrose saithe The Emperoure hathe no Povver ouer Goddes causes so maie wee likewise and
others that al the furniture of his Booke was broughte to his hande somme by Greeke Readers somme by Scholemaisters somme by Ciuilians somme by Canonistes somme by Summistes somme by Glosers somme by others that he hath nothinge els but patched Notebookes huddled togeather by snappes and peeces Some parte hereof or rather the whole al togeather without exception to doo you pleasure I would easily haue graunted you M. Hardinge vpon smal suite with more fauoure and lesse adoo Take from mee what learninge yee liste distreine it and pounde it at your pleasure I wil neuer trouble you with Repleuin How be it if yee vtter al this of your indifferente iudgemente and certaine knowledge yet is it impertinente for wee pleaded of Faithe and not of Learninge if otherwise yee speake it of heate of minde and abundance of Cholere and therevpon thus proclaime it vnto the world it is great folie Truely yee neuer sawe Sir Defenders Bookes nor neuer sette your foote within his studie A wise Iudge wil seldome pronounce before he knowe If it shal please you for trial hereof to sende your frende he maie happily see that Sir Defender hath al these Summistes and Canonistes and Greekereaders and Scholemaisters of his owne Notwithstanding it maie becomme vs bothe to saie as a Heathen wiseman sommetime saide This onely thinge vvee knovve that vvee knovve nothinge Goddes Truthe dependeth not of our knowledge Our Tongues shal cease and our knowledge shal faile But the Glorie of God shal stande for euer For my parte I wil saie to you with S. Augustine Quaere doctiores sed caue praesumptores Seeke others of more Learninge but bevvare of them that praesume of Learning If any praise falle out in this respecte bestowe it freely vpon your Greeke-readers and Scholemaisters who in your iudgemente haue beste deserued it It shal be sufficiente for mee to haue saide the Truthe whiche though it appeare neuer so simple is hable to remoue a Mountaine of Learninge But happy are your Brethren of Louaine that are so speedily growen Learned vpon the suddaine not by greate studie I trowe but rather by destinee As soone as they had once sauoured the soile of that countrie they lookte onely vpon twoo poore Titles of the Lavve De Maledicis and De Clerico promoto per saltum and suddainely they were transfourmed and nowe goe for Doctours As for your Learninge M. Hardinge wee neuer reproued it How be it greately to feare it wee haue no cause God geeue you Grace yee maie wholy turne it to his glorie leste in the daie of the Lorde it be laide againste you He is ouer wel learned that bendeth his Learninge againste God But if wee be so vtterly voide of al manner of Learninge paintinge as you saie our Bookes and Margines with the Names and Authorities of so many Doctours what maie your frendes then thinke of you that standing so longe in the Defence of your Priuate Masse are not yet hable to allege one Doctoure nor Greeke nor Latine nor one nor other It seemeth greate marueile yee shoulde haue sutche abundance of Doctours and shewe so fewe specially where it standeth you so mutche vpon to open your stoare Consider I beseeche you your late Reioinder wherein as it is thought nothinge of your parte is leafte vntouched Of the Seuen and twentie Articles conteined in my Replie yee haue taken vpon you onely to answeare One. And yet of the same One yee haue scarcely touched the tenthe parte Your pourpose should haue benne therein by euidente Examples and good Authorities substantially to haue proued your Priuate Masse Now consider the order and plainenesse of your dealinge Yee bestowe welneare the thirde parte of your Booke aboute the Sacrifice as though there were no Sacrifice without Priuate Masse Al the reste yee consume in idle discourses and needelesse talkes of Consecration of the Intention of the Prieste of Minglinge the vvater vvith the vvine of the Name of the Masse of Transubstantiation of Real Presence of Churche Feastes whiche in olde time were called Agapae of Singulare Communion of Communion of Faithe of our Vnion with Christe of sendinge abroade the Sacramente of Priestes vviues of Vovves of Bigamie of Good vvoorkes of Onely Faithe of Publique Praier in a tongue vnknowen of Ceremonies of Fourmes of Accidentes of the Epistles Decretal of Clemens Cletus Anacletus Abdias Leontius c. Hereof yee haue tolde vs sutche thinges as perhaps wee knewe before and were not harde to be knowen and perteined ful litle to the pourpose Yee should rather haue proued that within the firste sixe hundred yeeres after Christe somme one or other of the Holy Learned Catholique Fathers Ministred the Holy Communion openly in the Churche and receiued the Sacramente Alone not diuidinge the same to any other the vvhole multitude of the people sittinge or standinge by and lookinge on him This was the mater that laie bitweene vs Hereunto yee should haue laide your force This was it yee should haue proued For proufe of sutche thinges as needed no proufe yee haue brought foorthe greate shewes of Learninge But as touchinge your Priuate Masse whiche onely yee had taken in hande to proue yee haue hitherto proued nothinge Your Reader M. Hardinge can neuer be neither so simple nor so partial but he muste needes haue an eie vnto your issue and remember what yee had in hande If emongest so many and so Learned woordes he finde not one woorde of that he sought for maie he not thinke he hath loste his laboure and that there is somme folie in your fardle Maie he not saie within him selfe Quò nunc se proripit iste VVhat shal I make of these vagaries what meaneth this man to shoote so faire biside the marke He muste needes perceiue by your silence that notwithstandinge your so many faire and liberal promisses yet the thinge he sought for cannot be founde Naie you your selfe for excuse hereof by expresse woordes haue tolde vs plainely It mighte be that none receiued the Sacramente vvith the Prieste And againe VVhether the Prieste had alvvaies a companie to receiue vvith him or sommetimes receiued alone that is a circumstance of a facte the proufe vvhereof by manifeste Testimonies cannot vvith reason be demaunded Againe It is contentious to put vs to proufe of the Circumstance Againe It forceth not vvhether vvee bringe foorthe Testimonies of the sixe hundred yeeres or no. Againe VVhether I can shevve that a Masse vvas saide vvithout companie presente to receiue vvith the Prieste that saide it or no vvhat skilleth it Againe I must telle you that I seeke not for Priuate Masse vvhiche to finde your scoffinge pretendeth me to be desirous I seeke not for that vvhiche I acknovvledge not And againe It forceth not greately vvhether it maie be proued or no VVhiche is as mutche as if yee had tolde vs in plainer wise that for the space of sixe hundred yeeres after Christe yee can heare no tidinges in any Doctoure or
Councel of your Priuate Masse VVhiche thinge thus of your parte confessed to our pourpose is sufficiente Now touchinge the Authoritie of your Amphilochius not long sithence yee thought his force had benne inuincible And therefore yee stoode vp alofte and braied alowde Novve M Ievvel and his Consacramentaries doo stagger I doubte not And for that cause as if it had benne somme greate woorthy Authoure yee alleged him seuen times with special reuerence in one Booke And yet nowe at the laste yee are contente for shame to turne him ouer and to let him goe Perhaps yee thought for the while a weake threede was sufficient to leade the people and that as folkes vse sommetimes to please children yee might quenche their thirste with an emptie cuppe Thus mutche hitherto touchinge somme partes of your Reioinder Concerninge your Former Booke whiche yee haue intitled a Confutation I neede to saie nothinge By the iudgemente of the wise it saithe sufficiently of it selfe But what meante you M. Hardinge therein to make so large discourse I wil not saie in the Defence for that woorde your frendes maie not beare but at the leaste in the fauoure of Open Stevves and to calle the same Malum necessarium that is to saie although an il thinge yet sutche a thinge as no good Common weale maie be without it VVhat meante you to that purpose to shewe vs the name and Authoritie of S. Augustine and thus to vpbraide vs in the ende In good soothe Maisters ye are too yonge to cōtrolle the Cittie of Rome in her doinges VVhat needed you to bestowe so fine eloquence in so fowle a cause Is vice growen so colde in Louaine that it muste be enflamed and authorized by open VVritinge VVhat meante you to allege the Prophete Dauid the Euangeliste S. Mathevve and S. Paule the Apostle for proufe of your Pardonnes VVil yee telle vs that Dauid Matthevve and Paule were Pardoners Or if yee dare to telle vs so must wee beleeue it If yee so manifestly mocke vs with open folies howe maie wee truste you in higher Mysteries S. Paule saithe Though our outwarde man be corrupted yet our inwarde man is renewed daie by daie Here yee telle vs in greate soothe that these woordes vndoubtedly serue to proue Purgatorie Christe saithe vnto Peter I haue praied for thee c. Therefore yee saie Christe novve requireth vs not to be obediente to Peter or Paule but to the Pope that sitteth in theire Chaire Christe saithe The Sonne of Man came not to destroie but to saue Ergo saie you The Breade and VVine in the Sacramente lose no parte of their former vertues but remaine in Fourmes and Accidentes euen as they vvere before as if the Sonne of God had come downe from Heauen to saue Accidentes Thus yee nippe of the sense and meaninge of the Holy Scriptures and feede vs onely with emptie woordes as if yee woulde pike awaie the corne and geeue vs the chaffe or conueigh awaie the iewels and throwe vs the bagge O M. Hardinge be not wilful let your owne conscience leade you VVas this the meaninge of S. Paule was this the comminge of Christe into the worlde was this the sense of the Holy Ghoste I wil not saie what Olde Doctour or Anciente Father but what Summiste what Canoniste what Childe what Heretique euer either so vndiscretely or so vnreuerently vsed the VVoorde of God I leaue the misconstrueinge and falsifieinge of so many Fathers the allowinge and soothinge of manifest Forgeries the vpholdinge of Abuses and open Erroures your weake Proufes your seely Coniectures your simple Gheasses your greate Ouersightes your bolde Affirmations your heapes of Vntruthes your disdeigneful Scornes your immoderate Scoffes your vngentile and vnciuile woordes as for example Villanes Theeues Fooles Disardes Lourdaines c. I leaue other your vnmannerly and vncleanely speaches Hungry Dogges eate dirty puddinges As common as life vvith beggers They serue the belly and the thinges beneath the belly VVas this a presente M. Hardinge meete either for the Modestie of a Virgine or for the Maiestie of a Prince specially sutche a Virgine and sutche a Prince so Chaste so Graue so Learned so VVise so Vertuous so Godly as Christendome seldome hath seene the like VVhat thought you that either her wisedome coulde not espie your fraudes and mockeries or that her chaste eares coulde quietly beare your lothesome talke Or thought you by the weight of sutche reasons to mooue Mountaines and to woorke woonders and to force her Maiestie to leaue christe and his Gospel and comme to Louaine to folowe you Yee threape her Maiestie fondely with kindenesse and as yee woulde haue the worlde imagine with good likinge and fauouringe of your side as if her Maiestie hauing benne brought vp from her cradle in the knowledge and feare of God and through Goddes greate Mercie and accordinge to his knowen VVil by the good aduise and counsel of the states of her Realme hauinge refourmed the House of God from the filthe and soile of your diuises shee stoode nowe in a mammeringe and were not hable to discerne either Falsehedde from Truthe or Darkenesse from Light or as if your Errours were not so grosse that a blinde man maie groape them with his Fingers Yee telle her Maiestie shee hath neither Parlamente nor Lavve nor Churche nor Cleregie The Churche of Englande yee commonly calle the Tovver of Babylon the Synagog of Antichriste and the Schoole of Sathan ye charge her Maiestie with disordered proceedinges with mainteinance of Infidelitie of Sacrilege of Schisme of Heresie For your possible power ye dishonour her Maiestie bothe abroade and at home where yee maie geate credite to your folies yee sclaunder the gouernmente yee disquiete her Maiesties louinge Subiectes yee breede Seditions yee procure Rebellions yee hazarde her estate And yet dare yee to pouder al this poison with a fewe dissembled and sugred woordes and to offer the same vnto her Maiestie for a presente VVel M. Hardinge if yee had foreseene the thankes that her Maiestie moste iustely yeelded you for your trauailes yee woulde not haue benne so bolde so rudely to presse into her presence It behooued you to be aduised not onely what yee wrote but also what Personage shoulde viewe your writinges If yee shal happen to write hereafter sende vs fewer woordes and more Learninge If yee shal diuise to talke any more of your Priuate Masse leaue your vagaries and goe directly to the pourpose Telle vs no moe sutche longe tales either of the Sacrifice or of other maters so farre from the question It is no good Logique to shifte of the thinge yee haue in hande and to mocke your poore Reader with an other Treade not so nicely and so gingerly M. Hardinge Saie not your Masse is a Circumstance and a mater of Facte and standeth onely vpon supposalles and gheasses and therefore needeth no further proufe VVhy soulde yee so trifle with the simple This is the Issue
Sinnes foregeeuen by Holy VVater In Pontificali Prouerb 11. Cyprian Lib. 1. Epist 3. Tertullian in Apologeâ—ico Roma 2. C. Plinius * So vvas Christe taken of the Phariseies ‡ The fundation of the Churche of God is not Peter but Christe The Churche aboue Goddes VVoord * Vntruthe Foâ— generally itâ—â— contrarie to 〈◊〉 Faithe of 〈◊〉 Luc. 22. ‡ It is easilâ—â— founde in 〈◊〉 Booke 〈◊〉 Lutherum * A commâ—â—â—rie biside 〈◊〉 Texte ‡ A proper Glose * Vanitie of Vanities For the Scriptures vvere knovven and beleued before there vvas any Churche in Rome Contra Epist Fundamenti ca. 5. ‡ It is no harde mater to finde it Reade the Ansvveare Syluester Prierias contra Lutherum The Churche aboue Goddes VVoord Alb. Pigghius in locis Communib De Ecclesia Nicol. Cusanus de Authoritate Ecclesiae CoÌ„cilij supra contra Scriptur Iohan. Maria Verractus Editus est Ann. 1561. Alb. Pigghius Hierar li. 1. a. 2. Alb Pigghius in controuersijs De Ecclesia Deuter. Cap. 17. Heruaeus De potesta Papae ca. 23 Nicol Lyra in Deuter. Cap 17. The Churche aboue Goddes vvoorde Augustin contra Epistolam Fundamen Cap. 5. August In Psalmum 57. Augustin De Vnitate Ecclesiae Ca. 2. Augustin contra Cresconi Grammat Li. 1. Ca. 33. Augustin De Vnita Ecclesiae Ca. 16. Augustin eodem loco Chrysostom in Matth. Hom. 49. Psalm 18. Roman 10. Psalm 76. Augustin contra Faustum Lib. 32. Cap. 19. The Churche aboue Goddes vvoor de Augustin contra Epist Fundam Ca. 5. Chrysostom in Matth. Hom. 49. August De Vnitate Ecclesiae Ca. 11. Summa Angelica in dictione Papa Theodoricus de Schismate Plutarchus * This is good plaine dealinge For in deede this Ansvveare is very sclender ‡ VVith M. Hardinges good instructions In dict Simonia Ver. vtrum actoritas * A vvoorthy distinction Hereby the Pope maie selle Bishoprikes and Benefices vvithout Simonie ‡ This kinde of Simonie standeth onely in sellinge of Orders and Sacramentes c. * Vntruthe shamelesse as shal appeare Esai 59. ‡ Ful discretely and vvel applied As if these vvoordes had benne meante of the Pope and his Successours The Pope cannot commit Simonie Bernardus de Consideratione Li. 3. Bernardus in Conuersione Pauli Sermo 1. Dè Ciuitate Dei Li. 18. Cap. 22. Viues In Sexto De Electione Elect potest Fundamenta In Glossa Durandus de modo Celebrandi Concil Ti. 20. Musculus in Iohan Cap. 6. Summa Angeli in Simonia Extra De Officio Iudicis Delegati Ex parte N. In Clossa The Pope cannot commit Simonie Aureum Speculum ff De Offi. praeroris L. Barbarius Colum. 2. ff Eod. Titulo Ead. L. Bartolus Theodoricus De Schismate inter Vrban Clement Lib. 2. Ca. 32. Felinus de Officio Iudicis delegati Ex parte N. A iuste and a reasonable cause wherefore the Pope maie selle Bishoprikes Deanries Abbies c. Extra De Simonia Ca. 1. Numero 6. Fol. 18. Abb. Archidiacon in Tract De Haeresi ver Et quia tanta est The Diuels VVoordes alleged vnder the name of S. Peter The Pope cannot commit Simonie Felinus De Offi. Iudicus delega Ex parte N. The Pope changeth Vice into Vertue Extra De Simonia Ca. 1. Hostien Extra De simnia Eisi questiones Hieronymus 1. Quaest 1. Eos qui. Esaie 59. Augustin De Natura Boni Ca 46. Hieronym in Michaeam Ca. 4. Hieremi 12. Matthae 21. * Learnedly proued The Churche of Rome is the vvhole Catholique Churche Tertull. in Apologetico By this vvhole discourse Christ and his Apostles maie be condemned 1. Ioan. â— Prouerb â— Eccles Hisit Lib. 6. Ca. 5. in Graecis ‡ A good excuse of Idolatrie * Yes verily Euen as the House of God and the Caue of Theeues vvere al One Temple Matthae 21. Luc. 1â— Ioan. 17. Matth. 16. Here M. Hardinge laieth out his heapes of Learninge ‡ A very Learned and a vvorthy Conclusion But vvoe be to them that calle Light Darkenesse and Darkenesse Lighte Esai â— Departing from the Churche of Rome Dist 12. Non Decit In Rubric Bernardus in Synodo Remensi In eadem Synod Paralipom Vrspergen Pa. 396. Aeneas Sylui. in Epist ad Casparem Schlickium Paralipom Vrspergen in Clemen 5. In Concil Trid. Antonius Marinarius Concil Trident. Episcopus Bitontinus Francis Zephyrus in Apologeticum Tertulliani Arnulphus aut Bernardus in Concil Remen Petrar in Rithmis Italicis Schola di Errori è Tempio di Eresia Departing from the Churche of Roâ—â— Hermaâ—â— Riddus De Maiorita Obedient Vnam Sanctam Subesse Romano Pontifici est de necessitate Salutis Clemens Apostolicar Constiâ—a Lib. 6. Cap. 4. Aeneas Syluius ad Rector vniuersitatè Colonien Paraliponena Vrspergens Pag. 435. Augustinus de Vnitate Ecclesi Ca. 10. Chrysostom in Matth. Hom. 49. Anselmus in 2. Thessalon 2. Ambros in Epist ad Theodos Vâ—sent Departing from the Churche of Rome August Contra Faustum Lib. 15. Cap. 3. Ambros Ansber in Apocalyp Li. 2. Cap. 2. Cyprian De Lapsis Sermo 5. Chrysostom ad populum vntioch n. Homi. 17. Chrysostom in Matth. Hom. 46. The Churche in fevve Irenaeus Lib. 4. Cap. 46. Hieron in Esai Lib. 8. Cap. 24. Fortalitium Fidei Lib. 5. De Summa Trinita Linwoode Ludoui Viues de Causis Corrupt Artium Lib. 5. Catharinus aduerius Petrum à Sold. Erasm in Scholijs in Hieronym ad Marâ—ellam Comparison of Learning Erasmus ad Archiepisc Toleta Extra de Elect. Electi Potest Signifi in Gloss Manipul Curat Pag. 101. Inter Decreta Felicis pp. Conc. Tomo 1. Pag. 168 In Donatione Constantini Herma Riddus Hierony In Reg. Monacho Ne ad Risum Provocentur Angelici Spiritus Hierony in Prouerb Li. 2. Ca. 19. Actor 8. 1. Cor in 2. 3. Esdr 4. 1. Cor. 13. Matth. 13. Hiere 14. Esai 41. Amos. 8. ‡ Vntruthe For vvee are not departed from the Catholique Churche Iob. 40. Cantic 6. Paralipomen Vrspergen in Clement 5. Departing from the Churche of Rome Hierony ad Fabiolam De. 42. Mansionibus Mansione 1. Beda in Apocal. Lib. 3. Cap. 18. Beda in Apocal. Lib. 3. Cap. 19. Example of Christe Apocal. 18. ‡ Thus mutche confessed is sufficiente * A suddaine Conclusion ‡ A vaine folie For a good man maie folovve Christe vvithout presumptuous Comparison Chrysost in Matthae Homil. 79. Origen in Ezechiel Homil. 7. Extra De TraÌ„slatio Episcopi QuaÌ„to Hostien Bernard De CoÌ„sideratio Lib. 2. ‡ Vntruthes notorious manifeste vnto the vvorlde ‡ Here M. Harfreely yeldeth vs the first six hundred and three score yeeres that is to saie the vvhole time of the Apostles Holy Fathers of the Churche * Reade the Ansvveare ‡ Vntruthe As shal soone appeare Esai 2. * Certainely vve receiued not our Faithe firste froÌ„ the Churche of Rome Augu. Epist 178. Augu. Epist 170. Chrysosto ad Popul Antiochen Homil. 14. Tripar Histor Lib. 4 Cap. 16. Sozom. Li 3. ca. 8 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The Faith brought to Rome oute of Graecia Basil In Epist
nor Deacons this daie in the Churche of Englande he might the more easily claime the whole right vnto himselfe And in déede if it were certaine that the Religion and Truthe of God passeth euermore orderly by Succession and none otherwise then were Succession whereof he hath tolde vs so longe a tale a very good substantial Argumente of the Truthe But Christe saithe In Cathedra Mosi sedent Scribae Pharisaei By order of Succession the Scribes and Phariseis sitte in Moses Chaire Annas and Caâ—pâ—as touchinge Succession were as wel Bishoppes as Aaron Eleazar Of Succession S. Paule saithe to the Faithful at Ephesus Scio quâ—d post discessum meum intrabunt Lupirapaces Ex Vobis ipsis exurgent viri peruersa loquentes I knowe that after my departure hence Râ—ueninge Woulues shal enter and Succede me And out of your selues there shal by Succession springe vp menne speakinge peruersely Therefore S. Hierome saithe Non Sanctorum filij sunt qui tenent loca Sanctorum They be not alwaies the Children of Holy Menne that by Succession haue the places of Holy Menne Notwithstandinge the Pope him selfe wil saie as it is before alleged In Papa si desint bona acquisita per merirum sufficiunt quae à Loci Praedecessore Praestantur If the Pope wante good thinges gotten by his owne merites the good thinges whiche he hath by Succession of Peter his Predecessour are sufficient And the Glose thereupon Petrus fecit Papas Haeredes bouitatis suae Peter made the Popes Heires of his goodnesse by Succession And againe Papa Sanctitatem recipit à Cathedra The Pope receiueth his Holinesse by Succession of his Chaire Sutche affiance sometime had the Scribes and Phariseis in their Succession Therefore they saide VVee are the Children of Abraham Vnto vs hath God made his promises Arte thou greatter then our Father Abraham As for Christe wee knowe not from whence he came or what he can shewe for his Succession And when Christe beganne to refourme their Abuses and Errours they saide vnto him By what Power dooest thou these thinges And who gaue thee this Authoritie where is thy Succession Vpon whiche woordes Beda saithe Intelligi volunt Diaboli esse quod faciâ— They woulde haue the People vnderstande for that he had no solemne Succession that al that he did was of the Diuel And Cyrillus frameth their woordes in this sorte Tu Ortus ex Iuda commissos nobis fasces vsurpas Thou beinge of the Tribe of Juda and therefore hauinge no right by Succession vnto the Priesthoode takest vpon thee the office that is committed vnto vs. Likewise Chrysostome imagineth the Phariseis thus to saie Tu de Sacerdotali Familia natus non es Senatus tibi hoc non coucessit Caesar non donauit Thou arte not of the house of Priestes The Councel hath not graunted it thee The Emperour hath not geeuen it thee Thus to maineteine them selues in credite for that they had Succession and continuance from Aaron and sate in Moses Chaire they kepte Christe quite out of possession and saide vnto him then euen as M. Hardinge saithe nowe vnto vs Who euer taught vs these thinges before thee What ordinarie Succession and Vocation haste thou What Bishop admitted thee Who confirmed thee Who allowed thee Therefore good Christian Reader lette not these M. Hardinges greate woordes mutche abasshe thee The Scribes and Phariseis in the like cases vsed the like language longe agoe Touchinge the Churche of Rome I wil saie nomore for this presente but onely that was spoken openly by Cornelius the Bishop of Bitonto in the late Councel of Tridente Vtinam non à Religione ad Superstitionem à Fide ad Infidelitatem à Christo ad Antichristum velut prorsus Vnanimes declinassent VVoulde God they were not al gonne by consente togeather from Religion to Superstition from Faithe to Jufidelitie from Christe to Antichriste These fewe woordes consideringe either the speaker or the place where they were spoken maye seeme sufficient They are gonne from Faithe to Infidelitie from Christe to Antichriste And yet al other thinges failinge they muste holde onely by Succession and onely bicause they sitte in Moses Chaire they muste claime the possession of the whole This is the right and vertue of their Succession The woordes of Tertullian M. Hardinge whiche you haue here alleged were spoken of certaine your Ancient Fathers that had raised vp a Newe Religion of them selues as you haue also donne without either Woorde of God or example of the Apostles and Holy Fathers And therefore he saithe not vnto vs but vnto you and sutche as you be Edant Origines Ecclesiarum suarum Lette them shewe foorthe the Originalles of theire Churches Euen so wée saie vnto you shewe vs the Originalles of your Doctrine Shewe vs any one of the Apostles of Christe or of the Learned Catholique Doctours of the Churche that euer saide your Priuate Masse Shewe one at the leaste either Greeke or Latine S. Augustine saithe of so many Bishoppes of Rome there coulde not one be founde that had benne a Donatiste Euen so in like sorte saie wée to you of al the same Bishoppes of Rome there cannot one be founde that euer agreed with M. Hardinge in saieinge Masse Or if there were any sutche shewe vs his name with other Circumstances when and where and who were witnesses of the dooinge Shewe vs your Originalles M. Hardinge Confesse the Truthe Deceiue vs no lenger It is a newe Diuise ye haue it onely of your selues and not by Succession from the Apostles But wherefore telleth vs M. Hardinge this longe tale of Succession Haue these menne their owne Succession in so safe Recorde Who was then the Bishop of Rome nexte by Succession vnto Peter Who was the Seconde Who the Thirde Who the Fourthe Irenaeus reckeneth them togeather in this order Petrus Linus Anacletus Clemens Epiphanius thus Petrus Linus Cletus Clemens Optatus thus Petrus Linus Clemens Anacletus Clemens saithe that he him selfe was nexte vnto Peter And then muste the reckeninge goe thus Petrus Clemens Linus Anacletus Hereby it is cleare that of the foure firste Bishoppes of Rome M. Hardinge cannot certainely telle vs who in order Succeded other And thus talkinge so mutche of Succession they are not wel hable to blase their owne Succession I might farther saie that Peters See Apostolike was ouer the Iewes and not at Rome ouer the Heathene For so S. Paule saithe Mihi concreditum est Euangelium Praepuiij sicut Petro Circumcisionis Qui potens erat Petro in Apostolatu Circumcisionis Potens erat in me inter Gentes The Gospel of the Vncircumcision was committed vnto me as the Gospel of the Circumcision vnto Peter God that was mighty in Peter in the Apostleship of the Circumcision was mighty in me emonge the Heathens Therfore if the Pope this daie wil claime onely by Peters Title and require nomore then Peter had then muste he séeke
admitted Judas vnto his Table whereat he gaue and deliuered vnto his Disciples a Figure of his Body Againe S. Augustine saithe as in the Personne of Christe Qui in me non manet in quo ego non manco ne se dicat aut existimet manducare Corpus meum aut Sanguinem meum bibere He that abideth not in me and I in him let him not saie or thinke that he either eateth my Body or drinketh my Bloude The obiection that ye make of the Resurrection of our bodies is light and vaine and to smal pourpose For if noman shal haue parte in the Resurrection but onely they that haue receiued the Sacramente of Christes Body then are al the Holy Fathers Patriarches and Prophetes of the Olde Testamente Abraham Isaac Iacob Moses Aaron and sutche others then are infinite numbers of Christian Children then are many Godly Martyrs whiche beinge Baptized in the Bloude of Christe were taken out of this life before they coulde receiue the Sacramente vtterly excluded for euer from al hope of Resurrection But Christe when he spake these Woordes meante not the reciuinge of the Sacramente but the Spiritual Eatinge of his Very Body and the Spiritual Drinkinge of his Very Bloude Whereof he is made partetaker vnto Resurrection and Life Euerlastinge who so euer beleeueth in the Death of Christe And therefore S. Basile saith of the Sacramente of Baptisme Baptisma est vis efficacia ad Resurrectionem Baptisme is a Povver and a strength vnto Resurrection But hereof wee shal haue occasion offered to saie more hereafter Further Howe can ye assure your selues saye you that your Faithe receiueth the Body of Christe VVhiche was neuer promised to your Faithe By the waie I beséeche you M. Hardinge when or where was Christes Body euer promised to your Mouthe Verily Christe promised his Body to he receiued by Faithe and by Faithe Onely and none othervvise For thus he saithe Ego sum Panis ille Vitae qui venit ad me non esurier qui credit in me non sitiet vnquam I am that Breade of Life He that commeth vnto me shal neuer hunger and he that Beleeueth in me shal neuer thirste Here haue you M. Hardinge a plaine promisse made vnto our Faithe But of your Mouthe wée heare nothinge If you haue ought to shewe out of the Scriptures Doctours or Councelles let it appeare that in plaine woordes without coloure Otherwise if ye cauil in woordes wée muste saie ye haue nothinge Therefore the Auncient Father Origen saith Idcircò dicitur Panis vitae vt habeat Gustus Animae quod deguster Therefore is Christe called the Breade of Life that our Faithe whiche is the Taste of our soule maie houe what to taste Clemens Alexandrinus saithe Comedite Carnes meas Bibite Sanguinem meum Euidenter Fidei Promissionis quod est Esculentum Poculentum dicens allegoricè Eate my Fleashe and Drinke my Bloude Meaninge hereby vnder an Allegorie or by vvaie of a Figure the Meate and Drinke that is of our Faithe and his Promisse Tertullian saith Eundem Sermonem Christus etiam Carnem suam dixit quia Sermo Caro factus est Proinde in causa vitae recipien dus Deuorandus auditu Ruminandus intellectu Fide Digerendus est The same Woorde Christe called his Fleashe For the Woorde was made Fleashe Therefore he muste be receiued in cause of Life He muste be Deuoured by hearing He muste be chevved by vnderstandinge He muste be Digested by Faithe S. Cyprian saithe Quod est esca Carni hoc est Animae Fides As Meate is to the Fleashe so is Faithe vnto the Soule S. Augustine saithe Credere in eum hoc est Manducare Illud Eibere quid est nisi viuere To Beleeue in him is to Eate him That Drinkinge of him what is it els but to liue by him I truste M. Hardinge it maie appeare hereby there is somme promisse made hereof vnto our Faithe Nowe shewe you as euidente Promisse made to your Mouthe and Belly and then your Reader happily wil beleeue you The Apologie Cap. 14. Diuision 2. And therefore in celebratinge these Mysteries the People are to good pourpose exhorted before they comme to receiue the Holy Communion to lifte vp theire Hartes and to directe theire mindes to Heauen warde bicause he is there by whom wee muste be fedde and liue M. Hardinge I praie you Whiche these Mysteries meane ye Those that ye haue in your newe communion or those that we haue at the aulter of God in the Catholike Churche of Christe If ye meane your owne newe deuised toye thereof ye cannot bringe any sufficient reason againste the Churche pardy whiche condemneth the same If ye meane the Holy Mysteries of the Catholike Churche ye misreporte the mater For by that exhortation ye speake of the people are not prepared to receiue the Communion onely nor chifely but to dispose them selues accordingly and as it becommeth them to praie for to that ende be these woordes Sursum corda vp with your hartes pronounced by the Prieste in the Preface before prayer Reade S. Cyprian in Sermone 6. De Oratione Dominica And ye shal finde him to referre the whole to praier But what if we admitte your woordes refusinge your Heretical meaninge VVe graunte the people are to good purpose so exhorted as ye saie and that he is in Heauen whose fleash we feede on in this Sacramente thereby to attaine to life Euerlastinge VVhat conclude ye of this Ergo he is not here For at that marke ye shoote euery man maye see Here we tel you that your Rhetorike is better stuffe then your Logike for your argumente is foolishe VVith the one ye maie leade the simple perhaps with the other ye moue the Learned to laugh at you For Christe is in Heauen and also here as Chrysostome saithe Et hic plenus existens illic plenus Vnum Corpus He is here fully and there fully one Body These two propositions Christe is in Heauen and Christe is here may wel stande togeather without iuttinge the one the other out of place He is there at the right hande of the Father visibly he is here vnder the Formes of Breade and VVine inuisibly there in glorie here in Mysterie ▪ yet as truly and fully here as there concerninge his Substance as Chrysostome saith Ye procede foorth and saie The B. of Sarisburie It maye becomme you M. Hardinge as wel to cal the reuerende Ministration of Christes Holy Mysteries a Toie as to cal the Gospel of Christe Erroure and Heresie So likewise Libanius the Heathen although a man I trow not of your Profession saide sommetime that al the Bookes either of the Scriptures or of any y◠Christian Fathers in comparison of Iulianus the Renegates Bookes were toies and trifles Howe be it Our Toies be the same Toies that were once vsed and allowed vniuersally throughout the Catholique
Churche of God before your Masse was euer knowen and were then thought no Toies Touchinge these woordes Sursum corda Lifte vp your Hartes ye saie they were applied in olde times vnto praier and not onely or chiefely to the Ministration of the Sacramente and that as ye séeme to saie by the witnesse of S. Cyprian As for these emptie Woordes Onely or Chiefely ye vse them onely as a false light to blinde your Reader For in our Apologie yee founde them not Touchinge S. Cyprian Yée thought it beste to dissemble and to shifte his woordes and to commaunde him to silence For thus he saithe euen directely againste the whole practise of your Churche Sacerdos ante Orationem Praefatione praemissa parat Fratrum mentes dicendo Sursum Corda vt dum respondet Plebs Habemus ad Dominum admoneatur nihil aliud se quà m Dominum cogitare debere Before Praier the Priest with a Preface prepareth the hartes of the Brethren saieinge vnto them Lifte vp your Hartes that when the People ansvveareth VVee lifte them vp vnto the Lorde they maie be put in minde to thinke of nothing els but of the Lorde Where is this order M. Hardinge where is this Ecclesiastical Tradition now becomme Throughout your whole Territorie of Rome in what Churche in what Chaple is it keapte Where doothe your people answeare the Prieste at the Common Praier Or where dooth the people vnderstande either the meaning of the Sacramentes or any thing that is pronounced by the Priest Or why are you so vnaduised to allege manifeste Authorities against your selfe Ye saie the people was taught by these woordes not to coÌ„sider what was meant onely by yâ— Sacramentes but to geue attendance vnto yâ— Praier Wherein your own Massebooke is casâ—ly hable to control you And in the Greeke Liturgies not before any other publike Praier but immediately before the Holy Ministration the Prieste saithe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Let vs lifte vp our Hartes And Chrysostome saithe Clamamus in conspectu Sacrificij Sursum Corda Wee crie alowde in the sight of the Oblation Lifte vp your Hartes S. Augustine saithe Sursum Corda Habeamus Si Resurrexistis cuÌ„ Christo dicit Fidelibus Corpus Sanguinem Domini accipientibus dicit Si Resurrexistis cum Christo quae sursum sunt sapite vbi Christus est in Dextra Dei sedens Quae sursum sunt quaerite noÌ„ quae super terram Let vs lifte vp our Hartes If ye be risen againe with Christe he saith vnto the Faitheful he saithe vnto them that receiue the Body and Bloude of our Lorde If ye be risen againe with Christe sauer those thinges that are aboue where Christe is al the right Hande of God Seeke for the thinges that be aboue not for the thinges that be in Earthe Againe he saithe In Sacramentis Fidelium dicitur vt Sursum Corda habeamus ad Dominum At the Ministration of the Sacramentes of the Faithful it is saide Let vs lifte vp our Hartes vnto the Lorde Likewise againe Inter Sacra Mysteria Cor habere Sursum iubemur In the time of the Holy Mysteries wee are commaunded to Lifte vp our Hartes But what néede wee to rehearse the Ancient Fathers Your own late New Doctours haue saide yâ— like And to leaue the reste your own Manipulus Curatorum that is to saie the Ordinarie and Direction of al your whole Cleregie saith thus Sacerdos ante Canonem dicit Sursum Corda Quasi dicat quòd volens sumere istud Sacramentum debet habere Cor suum eleuatum ad Deum Before the Canon the Prieste saithe Lifte vp your Hartes As if he vvoulde saie vvho so vvil receiue this Sacramente ought to haue his Harte lifted vp vnto God These woordes be plaine and can in no wise be denied It were wisedome M. Hardinge in sutche cases to auouche nomore then ye knowe Otherwise your woordes wil goe for Toies Howe be it the matter beinge graunted that these woordes perteine to the Holy Ministration yet if wee woulde reason thus Christes Body is in Heauen Therefore it is not Really and Fleashely in the Sacramente Ye saie VVee shoulde make a foolishe Argumente Our Rhetorique is better stuffe then our Logique This Argumente M. Hardinge is taken of the Nature of Christes Humanitie whiche beinge the Very Natural Body of a Man by the Iudgemente of the Auncient Fathers muste needes be in one onely place at one time and can reache no further For otherwise it were not a Very Natural Mannes Body Therefore S. Augustine saithe as he is alleged by Gratian Corpus Domini in quo Resurrexit in vno loco esse oportet The Body of our Lorde wherein he rose againe muste needes be in one Place Like wise againe he saithe Christus secundum Praesentiam Corporalem simul in Sole in Luna in Cruce esse non potuit Touchinge Bodily presence Christe coulde not be in the Soone in the Moone and vpon the Crosse al at once And againe Christus vbique est Virtute non Opere Diuinitate non Carne Christe is euery where By his Power not in deede By his Godhed not by his Fleashe S. Cyril saithe Christus cum Discipulis suis etfi non Corpore tamen Virtute Deitatis semper futurus est Christ wil euermore be with his Disciples by the Povver of his Diuinitie although not in his Body Therefore to conclude S. Augustine saith Videre Ascendentem Credite in Absentem Sperate venientem Tamen per Misericordiam occultam etiam sentire Praesentem Behold Christe Ascendinge Beleaue in Christe beinge Absente Truste in Christe that shal comme againe And yet by his priuie mercie feele him Presente Beleeue saith S. Augustine in Christe Beinge nowe Absente and not here Thus the Auncient Catholique Fathers were bolde reuerently to reason of Christes Humanitie yet was not M. Hardinge yet borne that shoulde so bitterly charge them with Foolishe Argumentes Nay rather Ruffinus saithe Stulta adinuentio Calumniae est Corpus Humanum aliud esse putare quà m Carnem It is but a Foolishe findinge of a Cauil to saie that the Body of a Man is any other thing then Fleashe But Chrysostome saithe Christe is whole here and whole there But Chrysostome in the same place many waies expoundeth his whole meaning For thus he saithe if it woulde haue pleased M. Hardinge to haue seene his woordes Offerimus quidem sed ad RecordationeÌ„ facientes Mortis eius Hoc Sacrificium Exemplar illius est Hoc quod nos facimus in Commemorationem fit eius quod factum est Idipsum semper offerimus Magis autem Recordationem Sacrificij Operamur Wee offer in deede But in Remembrance of his Deathe This Sacrifice is a Token or Figure of that Sacrifice The thinge that wee doo is sonne in Remembrance of that thinge that was donne before VVe offer alvvaie the same thing yâ— Christe offered Nay rather wee woorke the Remembrance of that Sacrifice