is true another ground thereof there is likewise that of no lesse importance in this matter which is That Christes true Visible and Ministeriall Church vnder the Gospell consisteth not of many ordinarie Congregations but only of one Which I have at large prooved to be a truth and have made it manifest in my Declaration pag. 10.11.12 c. and in Reas. for Reform pag. 19.20 65.66 And againe †Chapt. 8. heere after I do shew it further Yet the former point in some respect may bee thought rather the chief because this secoÌ„d is a depeÌ„dant on the former followeth by a necessarie consequence from it as partly is shewed in the said Declarat pag. 13.14 and more fully in the VII Chapt. of this present Treatise insuing Againe that requiring the peoples free consent noteth Christes Visible Churches nature and essence intensivè The Churches nature intensivè as the Scholes do speake that is it sheweth thâ— ground of the power and life thereof The other sheweth the essence of it extensivè Extensivè that is the largenes of the Body of the Church iust extent or the due limites and bounds thereof outwardly Wherefore that requiring the peoples free consent is manifestly a most proper and speciall Argument in our cause and such as toucheth the quicke in the matter of the said reformation most neerely D. Downame erreth greatly in his late Defence making his first booke thereof full long tedious only to disprove Lay Elders as he calleth them Thinking without all reason that if hee speed well therein he hath gotten the victorie Wherevpon hee most fondly inferreth thus “ Defenc. 1. pag. 62. Who seeth not that the disproofe of their Presbyteries is a direct proofe for our Bishops And in another place * Defenc. 2.2 Who seeth not that vpon the overthrow of the Presbyteries the governement by Bishops is necessarily inferred Who seeth not Verily neither hee nor any man living seeth it Hee was tolde sufficiently by his Refuter †Ibid. pa. 10. of this his vaine and frivolous inference But hee seemeth so in love with his owne folly that he caÌ„ indure no maÌ„ to shew him his errour Nay such a minde hee beareth that in his Defence he goeth about with pretended Logike to make this his idle conceit seeme reason and therevpon hee saith his adversarie must “ Defen 1.6 confesse him selfe ignorant in Logike if hee will deny this his inference And so ‡ Pag. 62. this passage concerning Lay Elders he hopeth will be acknowledged not to bee impertinent Never a whit truly The question of Elders wholy impertinent For this passage still is not only impertinâ—nt and idle but even a false defence of those whom he peadeth for if he will yet holde his opinion still He hath not Logike at commaund neither can hee by his Sophistrie amonge men of anie vnderstandinge make that to seeme which is not Where hee saieth it is “ Pag. 61. presupposed on both sides it is his folly to say so And in saying his Refuter witnesseth it hee grosly abuseth him He doth the contrarie in the same place which hee alleadgeth out of him For the Doctor leaveth out his Refuters wordes presently following those which hee alleageth Which later words are flat against him So iustly and truly our Doctor dealeth in his writings Like to this is his great boast which hee maketh heere in his booke and often afterwards also viz. that he hath found out twoo sortes of Disciplinarians as his wisedometermeth them one “ Defenc. 1.60 and 2.147 elder and more learned the chiefe of whom he saith are Calvin and Beza Another new shallow and ignorant sort of whom he maketh †Defenc. 2.2 82.130 Maister Cartwright chiefe adioyning others of vs since vnto him But what difference â—ndeth hee in these Disciplinarians â—orsooth the elder he saith holde â—resbyteries in Cities to governe â—hole Dioceses and Provinces and â—erein he avoucheth “ Defenc. 2.2 they ioyne with â—e Bishops in England against the new sort of â—isciplinarians The new sort * Defen 1.60 boldly and â—â—noranâ—ly hold Parishionall Presbyteâ—ies Naythis Doctor slandereth either â—gnorantly or maliciously For wee whoÌ„ he maketh of the new shallow â—nd ignorant sort we I say Wee agree with Calvin Beza in substance differ not â—ne haire from Calvin and Beza touâ—hing the substance of this matter We as they they as we do acknowâ—edge both the one and the other that â—s both the Parishionall and the Dioâ—esan Presbyteries yea the Provinciâ—ll and larger too if occasion serve â—t is false which he imputeth to Calvin â—nd Beza that they maintayne the Church-governement by Diocesan Provinciall Presbyteries absolutly without any relation to the peoples â—onsent in the ordinarie Congregations Also that heerein they ioyne with the Bishops in Englande or that they materially differ from vs. All which God willing we shal shew to be vntrue and that most cleerely in the 3. Chapt. also in the 7. 8. here following Wherefore these be all slanderous forgeries of the Doctors devising of purpose to make our innocencie odious by all the shifts be can to cast some “ Defen 1.53 colour of iust cause or shew of reason for his leaving of our acquaintance Wherefore D. Downame left his first profession to whom heeretofore he ioyned him self namely while there was som expectation of his Maiesties favour towards vs. And this is fully enough for answer to the substance of his whole first booke Seeing to trouble our selves much with impertinent stuffe would be in vs also great folly Yea to speake the truth the prosecuting of all the rest of his Defence besides is such likewise that is cleane from the maine purpose toucheth not the chiefe question betweene vs. Indeed he propouÌ„deth one part of the question wel in the title of the second booke of his Defence but his prosecuting of it both there and every where els even to the end is as if we denyed Bishops and their governement in the Churches of Christ We deny not Church government by Bishops Which is nothing els but lyes malicious forgerie against vs by equivocating falshood slander to make vs seeme as if wee were against both the expresse letter of the New Testament EquivocatoÌ„ and also of the most ancient Ecclesiasticall Writers where we know any maÌ„ may see Bishops their government to be coÌ„mended as from God and as the ordinance of the Apostles Which is the very practise likewise of Doct. Bilson against vs in his booke Of the perpetuall governement of Christs Church Whose trace our Doctor followeth step by step But as I said both their great and large volumes about this matter are nothing els but two heapes of equivocations or sentences wholy impertinent such as we admit with them or some conclusions wherein they plainly contradict theÌ„selves elswhere Little cause therefore had
An Attestation of many Learned Godly and famous Divines Lightes of Religion and pillars of the Gospell iustifying this doctrine viz. That the Church-governement ought to bee alwayes with the peoples free consent Also this That a true Church vnder the Gospell contayneth no more ordinary Congregations but one In the discourse whereof specially Doctor Downames also D. Bilsons chiefe matters in their writings against the same are answered Calvin Instit 4.3.2 Hee laboureth the destruction and ruine of the Church whosoever either seeketh to abolish this order and this kinde of government whereof we treate or maketh light of it as not so necessary ANNO DOM. 1613. To my Christian and beloved friends in London and elswhere in England Grace and peace be multiplied in IESVS CHRIST our Lord. THe great and long afflictions which it hath pleased God to call me vnto onlie for testifying his heavenly truth against the grievous corruptions of the Church in our Land are well knowen vnto you all my most deare and loving friends In the middest of which my troubles what comfort J have receaved from you though I publish not yet both a most thankefull remembrance thereof remaineth in my heart and with God a most precious recompence is laid vp for you at the last day I confesse I might â—og since have ben discouraged through many things which I finde both within and without me Besides I have not escaped the bytings of false brethren Also I am not ignorant that divers yea of those that least should doe not only distast but also speake evill of my innocencie without all cause In very deed they can not tell why But God the righteous Iudge seeth it who yet stil sustayneth and strengthenth my infirmitie by whose grace J am that I am Wherefore in his Name J do still beare witnesse to the truth denyed by many men do now take in hand to intreat heere concerning the Christian peoples power right of †Also coÌ„sequeÌ„tly that a true Church vnder the Gospell coÌ„taineth no mo ordinary Congregations theÌ„ one is not Diocesan properly free consent in their outward spirituall governement given theÌ„ by Christ Jesus in the Gospell And therefore to his gracious assistance heerein I also do trust In the which affaire I thinke it very behoofull for the better manifestation of my lawful and iust indeavour and no lesse needfull for Gods glory to speake to this matter propounded in this Treatise not my selfe alone but to shew openly vnto all who have but a sparke of love to the truth such an Attestation of faithfull and worthy Witnesses with mee in this matter being the maine foundation of our greatest controversie touchinge Church governement that I hope hereafter none will set against this my seeking both of mine owne and your soules good nor cavill at it but such as are too worldly and too earthly minded In my Discourse vpon this cause as touching obiections D Down Defenc Anno. 1611. chiefly I gather out of Doctor Downame such as seeme to any purpose J answer them Him beere J specially deale with because of a friend he is not long since turned from vs and become our adversarie yea the latest I thinkc which openly sheweth him selfe against vs and so is like to be now most in mens eyes also hee hath heaped togeather the most thinges that the best of such Defenders have heeretofore written Besides all this the maner of his writings is with such an “ Defence 1. pag. 16 17. 2. pag 122. insolent conceit of him selfe with such * Defence 2. pag 55. 15. contempt indignation and despite against vs as commonly is not seene in any but those that slide backe from the truth which they had once tacted of And withall though in his Defence he deale with another yet in many passages hee very sharply provoketh me in particular besides other wrongs that he hath done me well knowen For these causes both I write this that I do and I chieflie nominate him for our adversarie as in this treatise so also †In the Declaration elswhere My Christian and loving friends for whose sake most of all I labour and have laboured to make our said question which is long intricat trouble some to be short and plaine and to make the matter it selfe also appeare so waightie as indeed it is Now your partes are wisely and religionsly to ponder in your heartes and to make vse of this same As the Apostle spake to Timothie so do I vnto you Consider Brethren what I say and the Lord give you vnderstanding in all things Amen Iuly 18. Anno 1612. Yours ever in the Lord HENRY IACOB The contents of this Booke divided into Nine Chapters CHAP. I. The great importance of the matter heere handled viz. That the people ought to have their free consent in their owne Churche governement And the causes of publishing this Attestation to it Pag. 9. CHAP. II. The Methode and order of this Treatise Pag. 20. CHAP. III. The Testimonies of many particular late Writers of blessed memorie making for vs in this matter Pag. 21. CHAP. IIII. The publike consent of many late yet excellent Churches heerein with vs. Pag. 48. CHAP. V. The Testimonies practise of the best Antiquitie after the New Testament heerin likewise with vs. Pag. 52 CHAP. VI. Our very Adversaries sometimes do acknowledge with vs the truth of this doctrine in plaine termes and sometimes to the same full effect specially when they deale against the Papistes Pag. 70. CHAP. VII Consequences of exceeding great importance following vpon the peoples free consent in their Church-governement inconveniences intollerable following from the contrary Pag. 84. CHAP. VIII An answer to divers chiefe Obiections of the Adversaries of this cause noting also briefly their immodest not Christian like reproches against this Evangelicall doctrine Pag. 199. CHAP. IX A short Advertisement to the vpright hearted and Christian Reader touching this Writing and Cause Pag. 316. An Attestation of many Learned Godly and Famous Divines Lightes of Religion pillars of the Gospell instifying this doctrine viz. That the Church government ought to be alwayes with the peoples free consent c. CHAP. I. The great importance of the matter heere handled viz. That the people ought to have their free consent in their owne Church-governement And the causes of publishing this Attestation to it WHEREAS many thinges at divers and sundrie times heeretofore have ben writteÌ„ which prove a plaine necessitie by Gods Word to reforme the Church Church-governement now in England verily among them all there is almost no other point so evident so direct and ful to this purpose that is Chap. 1. none in a maner so absolutly importeth the saide necessitie of reformation as this doth which is vtterly wanting among vs namâ—ly That the Church-governement ought tâ—â—â—e exercised alwayes with the peoples free consent One or two maâ—â—â— grounds of our whole controversie It
have to that purâ—ise handled in my 3. and 9. Argumentes of the Divine beginning and institution of Christes Visible and Ministeriall Church do well shew and testifie to vs so much CHAP. VI. Our very Adversaries do acknowledge with vs the truth of this doctrine sometimes in plaine termes Chap. 6. and sometimes to the same full effect specially when they deale against the Papistes THE force and evidence of this truth viz. touching the peoples right for their free consent in Church governement is such that also our very Adversaries sometimes in plaine termes sometimes to the same full effect do acknowledge it Among many I will content my selfe with two for the present viz. D. Bilson and D. Downame The first of these in his Answer to the Apologie of the Seminarie Pristes and Iesuits writeth thus “ D. Bila against the Seminar part 2 353.356 We have the words and warrant of the H. Ghost for that which we say c. viz. That the people can and ought to disceme and trie the doctrine and spirits of the Teachers c so to chose and refuse theÌ„ as they by the word should see good Thus saith hee And what can be spoken by any of our selves more plainly and more fully to our purpose If the people can and ought to chose their Teachers and to refuse whom they finde worthy to be refused then why are they not allowed so to do in England If the wordes and warrant of the holy Ghost be for it then who may impeach it Who may resist it What are they that revile and persecute this way Hee addeth heere in this place that the people “ Pag. 355. have skill and leave to discerne both viz. to discerne the Teachers their doctrine Where also hee discourseth much vpon this right of the people as being Christes ordinaÌ„ce and presseth it against the Papistes Yea in another booke where he pleadeth to the contrarie purpose against vs yet hee writeth thus Perpet gov pag 300. * The Apostles left Elections indifferently to the people and Clergie of Ierusalem The people had as much right to chose their Pastor as the Clergie that had more skill to iudge “ Pag 339. Well may the peoples interest stand vpon the grounds of Reason Nature and be derived from the rules of Christian equitie * Pag. 359. The late Bishops of Rome have not ceased cursing and fighting till excluding both Prince and people they reduced the Election wholy to the Clergie But hee telleth them that by their leave applying heerevnto the wordes of Christ Mat. 19. 8. it was not so from the beginning Againe hee saith †Pag. 330. I a knowledge each Church and people stand frâ—e by Gods law to admit maintaine and obey no man as their Pastor without their liking Where in deed he addeth to the contrarie vnles by law custome or consent they restraine themselves But this he him selfe els-where answereth roundly “ Pag. 221. What authoritie had others after the Apostles deathes to chaÌ„ge the Apostolike governement And that it was not so from the beginning which before he answered is a full confutation also of this exception As also where he calleth Mens ordinances in Church governement †Pag. 19. Corruptions of times inventions of Men and a transgressing of the Commandement of God for the traditions of men And where he calleth such ordinances “ Pag. 111. intrusion and presumption As for that he saith elswhere in this booke †Pag 82. the Multitude hee meaneth the Christian people neither could not can iudge of the giftes and abilities of Pastors no more then blind men of colours This sheweth plainly his variable minde contradiction to him selfe As for the matter it is spoken meerely out of an humour and partialitie against vs and that his Lordship in spirituall things over Christes people might be stablished But before against the maine adversaries of the Gospell the Papistes he taught the truth as the Scripture there alleaged doth shew but heere in this last place he turneth about ioyneth with them rather then he would seeme to consent with vs. Nevertheles his former most cleere and syncere testimonie on our behalfe can not be blotted out Againe in the same booke speaking of Bishops in plaine termes thus hee saith “ pag. 340. They have no power to impose a Pastor on any Church against their willes nor to force them to yeeld him obedience or maintenance against their liking If this were ingenuously acknowledged and professed practised likewise religiously we should desire no more for the substance of the matter as it hath ben often saide Our agreement togeather touchinge Church-governement would soone appeare But he when he listeth will tell vs that Timothie and Tâ—â—s whom hee esteemeth Bishops had power to make Presbyters to Churches and the Apostles also “ pag. 88. without the people or their consent Wherefore what to reckon of his sayings and speaches we know not Only his foresaid agreement with vs in wordes is manifest Next to him wee will consider of Doctor Downame He in a certain place though it seemeth full sore against his will yet through the force of the truth being compelled acknowledgeth and yeeldeth vnto vs that †D Down Def. 4.99 the power of ordination and iurisdiction by right is seated in the whole Church or Congregation in case of necessitie wherein both the succession of their owne Clergie fayling and the helpe of others wanting the right is devolved to the whole body of the Church In which words I desire all men to observe how this Doctor graunteth vs the cause in full effect and agreeth wholy to our purpose For that which heere hee saith and which necessarilie followeth from these wordes is all that weâ— desire Wherefore I pray the Christian Reader to marke well these seaven Consequentes which follow froÌ„ these wordes of D. Downame and cannot be denyed by any honest and true-hearted Christian First in that he holdeth that the power of ordination and iurisdiction by right is seated in the particular Congregation in case of necessitie it is certain therfore that he must hold that this right and power is seated in the whole particular Congregation by Christ and by the ordinance of God For no person or persons can at any time nor in any respect have such power by Mans ordinance It can not bee either Naturally or Civilly given or receaved Wherefore in whom soever that power is seated at what time soever doubtles it is in them Supernaturally God by his speciall grace giveth it and Christ by his holy ordinance seateth it in them Yea though it bee in any case of necessitie whatsoever For thus it is written “ Iob 3. â—7 A man can receave nothing except it be given him from heaven That is No dignitie no authoritie no power in the Church can be but from God And it is spoken absolutly touching all
saith somewhat in the Church may “ Def. 1.7 be of Apostolicall institution D Down and yet not straightwayes Divini iuris of Divine right And every * Pag. 29. Apostolicall and so Divine Ordinance is not generally perpetually and immutably necessary Which he doth often repeat in his 4. booke It seemeth to be taken from Bellarmine the Iesuit Controv. 1. lib. 4. cap. 2. I am sure it is contrary to holy Scripture whiche sheweth that the Apostles whole practise in the Churches was Christes very commaundement The Apostles practise was Christs commandemet and vnchangeable by men Christ saith to his Apost “ Math. 28.20 Teach all Nations to do whatsoever I have commaunded you And Paul testifyeth to the Church of Corinth †1 Cor. 11.23 He receaved of the Lord that which he delivered to them And he chargeth others “ 2 Thes 2.15 To stand fast and to keepe the Ordinances which they had ben taught either by word or by his Epistle Therefore whatsoever is Apostolicall is indeed Divine and it is Christes very commandement and in respect of vs generally and immutably necessarie And so we affirme that the peoples consent in Church governemeÌ„t being a practise Apostolicall as by those Scriptures “ Pag. 76. the margin of pag. 19. above specified it is proved therefore it is also Christes Commaundement and therefore also vnchangeable by men Yea touching Church Censures it is expresly Christes Commandement Math. 18.17 Therfore I conclude seeing we not they do stande with the All-sufficieÌ„cie of holy Scripture with the intire and absolute Offices of Christ our Savior viz. his Propheticall and Kingly Offices even in teaching and inioyning a certaine forme of his Church and governement absolutely and vnchangeably for ever and seeing wee not they do thus asscribe vnto Christ this Divine Honor due in deed to his owne person wholy and only it must needes bee easily perceaved that we not they have the truth also we not they are free from schisme Will any defend our adversaries heerein deny that they thus teach against the honor of Christ or of his Word in his New Testament Or that the pointes which they hold do force meÌ„ to any such impious coÌ„sequents First therefore I will shew that such Consequentes must of necessitie folâ—ow from their opinion then I will â—ote their expresse wordes Whosoever will not holde one vniforme opinion of the Church and governement thereof as we do who beleeve the peoples consent therein to be alwayes necessarie but do preferre the Diocesan and Provincial Church-governement by L. Bishops and yet do also allow of that forme of a Church and governent where are no Diocesan Bishops at all yea where the peoples free consent and voyce-giving is receaved they of necessitie must say that the forme of Christes Visible Church of the governement therof may both bee instituted and also changed by men Of force they must say that Christ in his New Testament is not the Teacher Institutor Framer Lord and Law-giver of his Visible Church as he was in the Old Testament They must deny Christes Propheticall and Kingly Offices toward vs in respect of appointing his Visible Church and governement as also they must deny that Christes Testament is a sufficient rule for vs every where and for ever But that vniforme opinion our adversaries do deny Therefore such are the Consequents which men are forced to acknowledge who will hold as our Adversaries do Now heare their words D. Downame saith “ D. Down Def. 4.104 Where the governement by Bishops can not be had another forme may be vsed Yea he affirmeth †Def. 1.29 Def. 4.103 The Apostolicall and so Divine OrdinaÌ„ce of governement “ Pag 82. by the Bishop alone as hee thinketh Timothie and Titus were * commanded to governe is changeable by men And this in his 4. booke hee often inculcateth and repeateth But he saith hee teacheth thus * Def. 3.107 Out of charitie to those Churches which have no L. Bishops and in †Pag. 108. favour of them See this Doctor how for favor of men he wil spoile Christ Iesus of his due honor glory Such is his charitie to meÌ„ that it maketh him vncharitable and vndutifull to his Savior and to his blessed Gospell But hee will say perhaps that he graunteth this change of the Apostolike Ordinances and Preceptes only Vpon necessitie Fy What necessitie may breake the Apostles Ordinances and Preceptes Yea such preceptes whereof the Apostle saith “ 1 Tim. 6.13 14. I charge thee in the sight of God who quickeneth all things and before Iesus Christ c. that thou keepe this Commandement without spot and vnrebukeable vntill the appearing of our Lord Iesus Christ. Againe what necessity have the French and Dutch Churches c. to be without Diocesan and Provinciall L. Bishops Nay how easily might they have such if they thought them Apostolike And wofull it were God knoweth if they had need of this faver and charitie of the Doctor to maintaine them selves withall against the Papistes objections But let vs go on Gabriel Pawell also in that which he punished with the great allowaÌ„ce of the L. Bb. of Canterburic and London theÌ„ being saith expresly †G. Powel a Prefat â—d Adiaph Christ is not the Law-gives of his Church Archbishop Whitgâ—fe against Maister Cartwright of blessed memorie saith that to holde the forme of the Church governement thereof to be constant alwayes one and vnchangeable by men is “ D. Whitgâ— against T. C. in the Presa a false principle and rotten pillar So rottenly writeth that great Atlas of the Prelacie in England D. Bilson maketh it the maine drift of the third Chapt. of his Perpet governement to deny this part of Christes Kingdome Hee saith “ D. Bilson Perp. gov pag. 14. 15. The Kingdome and Throne which Christ reserved to himselfe farre passeth directing and ordering of outward things in the Church which he hath left to others Nay sure he hath †Isa 42. 〈◊〉 not left it to others He still reserveth this authority dignitie to him selfe vnder the Gospell as well as hee did vnder the Law And it is more then frivolous by advauncing Christes inward kingdome by his Spirit which the Doct. doth in this Chapter to denie his Outward Kingdom which ordereth the Outward Spirituall things in his Church Such as are the instituting of Sacraments the Ordayning of the Ministerie the appointing of Excommunication the Commanding of Sacred Societies and Assemblies c. Is the power of these Outward things left to others It is not it may not be Hee saith heere indeed that “ Pag. 16. the outward face of the Church where the good and bad by the Word and Sacraments are gathered togeather may be called the kingdome of heaven and of Christ And he saith well But in this he either contradicteth his generall purpose discourse or els
propositions which they offer to maintayne are such as if they were not true wee can not iustly separat froÌ„ the Church of Rome nor stand out against it Those some Proposittions which they meane are namely the fourth eight set down in that Offer Which affirme that a Church is but one Ordinary CoÌ„gregation and that the people ought to have their free consent in the spirituall governement thereof Vnto which may be added the 5.6.7 and 10. as being all of one nature by cleere and certain consequence The soundnes and firme truth of all the which hath ben sufficiently prooved and declared heeretofore and might by such a right ChristiaÌ„ tryal as there they desire bee brought to further light Wherefore D. Downames absurd reproches against that treatise calling it most senselesly “ Def 1.382 4.81 an Vnchristian and vnmodest Offer and the Positions therein Schismatical novelties do declare with what gall of bitternes his heart over-floweth against the truth against his brethren as “ Def. 2.48 hee dissemblingly calleth vs and also against those noble Pillars of the Gospell before alleaged our Attestators who are heerein his vtter adversaries whatsoever he pretendeth to the coÌ„trary He as a cocke on his owne dunghill may crowâ— what he list But if the Offer had ben or might bee accepted in such equall order as is there tendered he would be made to eate his wordes I doubt not and all the infamie of Schisme Noveltie would fall vpon his owne head Without which acceptanc elet the Doct. know that his tedious and Sophisticall writing all other such like will be held by wise men to bee vaine boasting and no better coÌ„quest then of such Champions as draw their weapons strike fight and take on at adversaries whose handes they will bee sure them selves have firste tyed fast Yea whom they will bee sure to have in their power to imprison and persecute if any presume to move against them Neither will they indure to bee shewed the imminent danger from the common enimy till all come about their heads And so much touching the important CoÌ„sequences of our present Assertion CHAP. 8. An answer to divers chiefe Obiections of the adversaries of this cause noting also brieflie their immodest not Christianlike reproches against this Evangelicall doctrine FIRST we will consider heere D. Downames second booke of his Defence D. Downames Defence 2. Booke answereâ—â— affirming and maintaining that there were proper DiocesaÌ„ Churches vnder the Apostles Which being true the people then certainly had not a free consent in Church-governement A cleare reason whereof I shewed before pag. 85. And I willingly acknowledge it still Yea and likewise that neither now they ought to have That vnder the Apostles the Churches were properly Diocesan the D. affirmeth in the title of this second book of his Defense and doth his best to maintaine it in the whole processe thereof afterward Where indeed I coÌ„mend him above al others that ever wrote in this cause against vs D Downames commendatiors namely for that hee doth more fitly and rightly set downe the point of the controversy which hath so long troubled Christian people in England Chap. 8. then any other before him hath don Which “ Whether proper Diocesan Churches were vnder the Apostles point only if it were Christianly and plainly decided would bring great contentment and a ioyful Vnitie I am perswaded to many thousandes But the proofes of his assertion heere do all faile him Nay they are strangely abused and perverted by him specially his Scriptures And heerein he is little to bee commended Let vs examine therefore his Scriptures and then the rest Yet by the way wee will Define a proper Diocesan Church The Definition of a Diocesan Church before wee begin with him A Diocesan Church is a Societiâ— of professed Christians whose spirituall governement is practised without the peoples sieâ— consent and whose Pastor hath a pluralitie of ordinarâ—e Congregations in his charge Such a Church we deny to have ben vnder the Apostles and I pray the Reader to have recourse to those seaven Reasons of mine which I have “ Declarat pag. 20.21 c. elswhere set downe to proove this my denyall and to disprove his assertion Now what doeth the Doctor bring to proove his opinion Expect not good Reader that I should follow him in his vaine flourishes and needles amplificatioÌ„s repetitions invectives other passages more fit for ostentation to satisfy his inteÌ„perate humor then for profit My desire is so as I may with perspicuitie in the cause to vse brevitie and if not to deâ—iver multa paucis yet to take heed not to deliver pauca multis as hee doth Wherefore I will pick out that which 〈◊〉 see materiall in him the rest I will â—et passe In his first Chapter pag. 4. he â—etteth downe a most confused distriâ—ution of the divers senses of the Greeke word Ecclesia D. Down Defen 2.4 in the New Testament which we vsually translate 〈◊〉 Church Wherein hee committeth 5. errors pertinent to our question First from this in Mat. 18.17 Act. 15.22 hee â—ould make a Synod or Consistone which have answered before pa. 108. c. Seâ—ondly a Nationall Church of the Iewes Act. 7.38 Which likewise I have anâ—wered in Reas. for Reform pag. 5. in the margin Thirdly Christian Nationall Churches in the nober plurall as he speaâ—eth namely in Rom. 16.4 1. Cor. 16.1 â—9 2. Cor. 8.1 Gal. 1.2.22 Which places â—e abuseth perverteth most rudely and desperatly The wordes do exâ—resly signifie nothing but a nomâ—er of Ordinarie Congregations Such wee meane by Parishes â—ath of them assembling in one â—lace or at most contayning “ See my Declarat pa 10. and 18.19 28.29.31.32 no mo ordinary assemblies then one and he without yea contrary to the expresse â—etter fancieth to him selfe a Nationall Church from no ground nor shew of ground in these places Fourthly he bringeth Act. 5.11 and 8.1 and 11.12 and 12.1.5 and 13.1 and 14.23 20.17.28 1. Cor. 1.2 2. Cor. 8.23 2. Thes 1.1 1. Tim. 5.16 Iam. 5.14 Apoc. 1.4.11.20 and 2.1 c. to prove a Church of a Citie and Country adioyning Where his error is like to the former What should I say to this man Not one of all these signifyeth a Church of a City and Country adioyning if he meane it to be extended or intended to mo ordinarie Congregations then only one Which is his meaning It is true the Churches of these Cities heere specifyed viz. of Ierusalem Antioch Ephesus Corinth Thessalonica c. might have meÌ„bers then which dwelt scatteringly and some a good way of from the place of their ordinarie maine meeting and such also as did assemble often in divers vncertain companies as in times of trouble there is reason it often commeth to passe but yet in those primitive times they all in each Church then made no mo but “ Which
cut off and excommunicate from the Church of Rome hee could not after that have any power as derived from them to make Ministers nor to do any other Bishoplie act Secondly wee all knowe the Church of Rome to be the very Antichrist chieflie in respect of their Clergie and Spirituall governement and most chieflie of all in respect of the Pope from whom all the rest as from the Head doe take their power and authoritie Now shall we say that very Antichrist can have power from Christ to make Ministers Or that we can have a lawfull Ministerie derived from those who had their power only from him It can not bee “ 2. Cor. 6.14 15. What communion hath light with darknes What concord hath Christ with Belial And so what hath Christ to do with Antichrist Nothing at all Thus then our consciences can have no assurance wee can not have confidence in such estate of the Ministerie But certainly Christs true Ministers among vs in Englande have a better Original thē this Wherefore this answere of our State Protestants must needes be false Yet in this answer who seeth not how the Papistes do reioyce triumph and insult Who seeth not how by this they are incouraged strengthened and multiplyed among vs exceedingly Truly it would pity a mans heart to beholde how this one point putteth life into thousandes to stande vp against Christes Gospell the libertie of their Country also For when they heare our selves openly to ascribe to the Church of Rome and to their meanes such a gift of grace even that which is our glory even the holy instrument of our faith to salvatiō for so is our Ministerie they will say if the branch be holy the root is more if the rivers be sweet the head-spring is delicious And so how can it bee chosen but the Papistes thus will bee graced and get great advātage among vs Many heere have another refuge but that also helpeth nothing Say they as Popish Baptisme is so far acknowledged by vs The last refuge of our Adversaries taken away as that with it only wee are held to bee sufficiently Baptised not to need Baptizing againe when we com from them to the Church of England So likewise wee may acknowledge the Popish Ordination to the Ministerie thus far and yet nevertheles cōdemne their Church and separate from them I answere the case is nothing like betweene Baptisme the signe of our initiation in Christ and the Calling to the Ministerie In the word there is expresse warrant for not repeating the signe of our initiation in Christ which of old was Circumcision and Baptisme now is the same though ministred by a false Ministerie and Church As wee may see in the “ 2. Chron. 30.11.18 35.17.18 Ez◠6.21 not Recircumcising of such Iewes as had receaved that signe in the Apostasie of Israell and turned frō thesame to the truth But there is no warrant at all in Gods word for any to retaine the outward Calling to the Ministerie or to stand in that power and authoritie which is derived from such a Church There is no such thing can be shewed in all Gods booke Therefore we may not conclude the like in this matter of Ordination to the Ministerie which may bee done for not repeating of Baptisme For by Gods worde Ordination may be repeated yea certainly after a Ministerie receaved in Christes true Church much more after it hath ben receaved in a false Church So that these two ordinances of Christ are nothing like in this point Wherefore out of question Ordination to the Ministerie as it is derived from Antichrist must be wholy reuounced of every faithfull man and may bee as is said renewed and repeated in Christes true Church as occasion serveth At Rome there is in it both an impiety and a nullitie In their administring of Baptisme there is not a nullitie altogeather as in that correspondent example of Israell in Apostasie before alleadged it well appeareth And this is sufficient for this though other answeres may be given also Wherefore this remayneth that when wee grant the descent of our Ministerie in Englande to come lineally from the Church and Pope of Rome which we must grant will wee nill we if wedeny it to arise essentially from the Christian peoples consent in each Congregation all the world seeth that we give the Pope a maine advantage against vs and we put into his hande a strong engine to draw vs back againe vnto him Which also he effecteth dayly vppon many among vs as woefull experience sheweth in our Land yea even vpon some of my very friends and neare acquaintance Beside this there is another point of the Churches governement The causing of Vnitie namely their Iurisdiction in cōpounding Schismes in making peace and vnitie and consent among Christian people which beeing ascribed as proper to Diocesan and Provinciall Bishops as they in England do say it is and as “ Def. 3.36 c. D. Downame with great vehemencie defendeth certainly true reason will cary it further it can not possibly stay there This wil serve a Popes turne a great deale better and to such a one it belongeth in deed as a very true and forcible ground for his Vniversall Governement over all Christians in the world if there were any Divine and Evangelicall truth in it at all But there is no truth in it Because this is no Divine and Evangelical way for Vnitie in religion viz. to constitute one Visible Head with absolute power of Spirituall governement whether Diocesan or Provinciall or Vniversall Or to take from the Christian people their free consent There is not in the Gospell any such Meanes to Vnitie It is a Humane policie a carnall device it is no institution of Christ Iesus Gods writt◠word is the cause of Vnitie Who in his word and by his word with the helpe of the Ministerie therein ordained provideth sufficiently for true peace and holy Vnitie among all his people For he saith “ Mat. 28.29 Ye erre not knowing the Scriptures And †Ioh. 5.39 Search the Scriptures for they are they which testifie of me And “ chap. 14.6 Rom. 16 17. I am the way the truth and the life Likewise the Apostle testifyeth that those are the makers of Schismes and divisions who teach and holde any thing besides the doctrine learned from the Apostles So that indeed the meanes appointed of GOD to make Vnitie in the Church is Gods word and not one Superiour over-ruling Minister over many distinct ordinarie Cōgregations which the word knoweth not But in truth such a one is the very proper cause of dissention and schisme For he not willing to submit to Gods word by his power draweth many with him yet he cannot lightly prevayle with all Wherevpon followeth dissention and schisme And then he with his cōpany being the stronger in the world may cry out loudest against those fewer that dissent from him that they are