and the Popes to be his successours He hath shewed also how the other Apostles were equal with Peter and how in other respectes they had lesse power for ordinarie continuance in their successours then Peter had But if I were of M. Iewels boasting humour I should now dissemble al this and write it in here a fresh as though nothing had benne said thereof before But I trowe wise men espie that smoky pride in him wel ynough I wisse lesse bookes might haue serued him for any good stuffe that is to be founde in them The fourth Booke conteineth a ful refutation of al that M. Iewel hath laid together in his pretensed Defence touching the Succession of Bishops in the Churche from the Apostles time vnto this present age Item a proufe of the necessitie of Confession WRITING the Confutation of the Apologie I had occasion to speake of the Succession of Bishoppes Thereto M. Iewel in his pretensed Defence hath replied at great length Wherein bicause he may perhaps to the vnlearned seme to haue some colour of aduantage against vs the matter being of good weight I iudge it not vnprofitable to bestow some labour and here to coÌ„fute his whole Defence touching that point whereby I doubte not it shal appeare how litle credite he deserueth if his sayinges be throughly examined where he blazeth forth most shew of learning That it maie appeare how directly he answereth the pointes of this Controuersie and of what pith his owne sayinges and how muche to the purpose his testimonies be and how truly alleged and that al be made the more plaine and cleere I wil reherse first the place of the Apologie that gaue me occasion to treat of Succession then the wordes of my Confutation against whiche M. Iewel bendeth the force of his Defence After this I wil laie forth his whole Defence sentence by sentence worde by worde as I finde it in his booke and so briefly as I can refel the same I am driuen to reherse that discourse of my Confutation againe bicause a great parte of the Defence depending thereof and being directed against the same onlesse it were againe by rehersal commended to the readers view and memorie our whole disputation would be obscure and vncertaine And this haue I donne also the rather to thintent the reader might haue that parte of my Confutation intier and whole whiche M. Iewel hath caused to be set forth in his booke pared hewed dismembred and altogether disgraced The Apologie parte 2. Cap. 5. Diuis 1. in the Defence Pag. 125. Furthermore vve saie that the miâ—ister ought laufully duely and orderly to be preferred to that office of the Church of God and that no man hath povver to vvrest him selfe into the holy Ministerie at his ovvne pleasure VVherefore these persons do vs the greater vvrong vvhiche haue nothing so common in their mouthes as that vve do nothing orderly and comely but al thinges troublesomly and vvithout order and that vve allovv euery man to be a priest to be a teacher and to be an interpretour of the scriptures Confutation fol. 56. a. Al from starre to starre leafte out by M. Ievvel Saing and doing are two thinges Ye saye wel in outward appearance Would God your doing were accordingly Albeit the manner of your saying had ben more coÌ„mendable if in so weighty a point you had spokeÌ„ more particularly and distinctly not so generally and confusely * Ye saye that the minister ought laufully to be called for so hath your Latine and duely and orderly to be preferred to that office of the Churche of God Why do ye not so why is not this obserued among you Gospellers What so euer ye meane by your Minister and by that office this are we assured of that in this your new Church Bishops Priestes Deacons Subdeacons or any other inferiour Orders ye haue none No holy orders among the gospellers Leâ—â— out by M. Ievvel In saying thus we speake not of our Apostates that be fledde from vs vnto your congregations Who as they remaine in the order which they receiued in the catholike Church so being diuided and cut of from the Church and excommunicate laufully they may not minister the sacramentes * For where as after the doctrine of your newe Gospel like the foreronners of Antichrist ye haue abandoned thexternal Sacrifice and priesthod of the newe Testament and haue not in your secte consecrated Bishops and therefore being without Priestes made with lawfull laying on of handes as Scripture requireth al holy Orders being geuen by Bishops only how can ye saie that any among you can laufully minister or that ye haue any lauful Ministers at al This then being so let me haue leaue to oppose one of these Defenders consciences And that for the better vnderstanding I may directe my wordes to a certaine person let him be the author of this Apologie or bicause his name to me is vnknowen let him be M. Iewel for with him gladly would I reason in this point the rather for acquaintaince and for that he beareth the name of a Bishop in that Churche where my selfe had a rome How saye you Syr minister Bishop ought the Minister to be laufully called ought he duely and orderly to be preferred to that office or as the Latine here hath promoted or put in authoritie ouer the Church in the Apologie this Defender saith yea Leaft out by M. Ievvel Then answer me directely How proue you your selfe laufully called to the roume you take vpon you to occupie First touching the ordinary Succession of Bishops from which as you knowe S. Iraeneus Tertullian Optatus and S. Augustine bring argument and testimonie of right and true religion do you allow the same with those fathers or no If not then dissent you from the learned and most vncorrupte antiquitie which is not reasonable neither then are you to be heard If yea then how can you recken vs vp your succession by which you may referre your imposition of handes and consecration to some of the Apostles or of their scholers as the foresaid fathers did to repel the nouelties of heresies and defende their continual possession of the Churche Which if ye go about how can ye but to the great hinderance of your cause bewraye your weake holde For whereas succession of doctrine must be ioyned with the succession of persons as Caluine in his institutions affirmeth and Beza auouched at the assemblie of Poyssi in Fraunce and we also graunt Succession of doctrine ioyned vvith succession of persons how many Bishoppes can you recken whom in the Churche of Sarisburie you haue succeded as wel in doctrine as in outward sitting in that chayre How many can you tel vs of that being your Predecessours in order before you were of your opinion and taught the faithful people of that Dioces the doctrine that you teache Dyd Bishop Capon teach your doctrine did Shaxton did Campegius did Bishop Audley Briefly did euer any Bishop of that See
muche as Priestes there sate in the Church where Deacons vsed to stande and the Deacons neuer durste to sitte emonge the Priestes Hiero. in eadeÌ„ epistol ad eÌ„uagriuÌ„ whiles the Bisshop was present Although he confesseth that once in the Bishoppes absence he sawe a Deacon when disorder tooke place sitting emong the Priestes and at priuate Feastes in priuate houses geuing the benediction to Priestes Whereby it is manifest that the preferring of Deacons aboue Priestes rose not of any ordinarie custome of the Churche of Rome where al states best keept due order in the Bisshoppes presence but of the priuate pride of some Deacons and of the simplicitie of the people of that Citie Therefore S. Hierome saith not Quid mihi profers Romanae Ecclesiae consuetudinem why bringest me forth the custome of the Romaine Churche but Quid mihi profers vnius vrbis consuetudinem Why bringest me the custome of one Citie The ignorant people made more of the Deacons Euseb lib. 6. Eccles histor ca. 33. bicause they were but fewe in number to wit but only seuen at one time as Eusebius maketh mention whereas at that time there were six and fortie Priestes in that Churche whom the people as S. Hierome saith for the number had in contempte Vbicunque fuerit Episcopus siue Romae siue Eugubij siue CoÌ„stantinopoli siue Rhegij siue Alexandriae siue Tanis eiusdem meriti eiusdem est sacerdotij Beholde Reader how M. Iewel hath translated this sentence Where so euer there be a Bisshop be it at Eugubium be it at Rome be it at Constantinople be it at Rhegium be it at Alexandria be it at Tanis they are al of one worthinesse they are al of one Bisshoprike Where the nominatiue case Episcopus Bishop being of the singulare number so placed by S. Hierome with the verbe Est also of the singular number bicause it serued not M. Iewels turne guilfully in translation a change is made into the plural and thereby the meaning of the sentence cleane altered to thintent the sentence might so the rather sounde to his purpose whiche is to make al Bishoppes equal in authoritie of rule and gouernment Now S. Hieromes wordes doo signifie that a Bishop is of the same Merite and of the same Priesthood whether he be Bishop of a great Citie or of a litle And here is to be noted that M. Iewel can not yet brooke this worde Merite and whereas before he vsed the worde Preeminence being by me admonished of it now he translateth eiusdem est meriti they are al of one worthinesse Likewise he termeth eiusdem sacerdotij of one Bishoprike for of one Priesthood How so euer you bring in S. Hierome for the equalitie of Priestes with Bishoppes it forceth not It is wel knowen S. Hierome neuer dreamed of suche an equalitie as you would haue when he wrote this sentence Ecclesiae salus in summi sacerdotis dignitate pendet Hieron aduersus Luciferainos cui si non exors quaedam ab omnibus eminens detur potestas tot in Eccesia efficientur schismata quot sacerdotes The sauegarde of the Churche dependeth vpon the dignitie of the highest Bishop vnto whom if a peerelesse and supreme power be not yelded there shal arise so many Schismes in the Churche as there be Priestes If God haue a special regarde to the safetie of the Churche and if the Churche can not be safe without there be a peerelesse and a supreme power yeelded vnto the highest Priest whiche is a Bishop as S. Hierome saith what so euer M. Iewel saie to the contrarie God must needes allowe the hauing of suche Bishoppes as shal haue power peerelesse to rule their flockes not onely their lambes but also their sheepe to witte the Clergie the Priestes and the Deacons vnder them Hieron Lib. 1. aduersus IouinianuÌ„ He saith also Propterea inter duodecim vnus eligitur vt capite constituto schismatis tollatur occasio Therefore is there one chosen emong the twelue saith S. Hierome who should be made Head that the occasion of Schisme might be taken away And that we should be put out of doubte who chose that one to be Head aboue al the reste and why Peter was rather chosen then Iohn that was so deerely beloued S. Hierome saith delatum est aetati partly in consideration of his age and partly bicause he would deliuer Iohn from the enuie that he should haue incurred if he had benne placed in that roome being so yong a man M. Iewel had neede to looke better vpon his booke and to learne by these places better to tempre the other sayinges of S. Hierome S. Hierome saith vnitie can not be kepte the Churche can not be in sauegarde Schismes can not be suppressed by equalitie of Priestes with Bishoppes Ergo there must be Bishoppes that shal haue power to rule the Priestes and the reste Thus M. Iewels equalitie wil not stande with the doctrine of S. Hierome Although saith S. Augustine after the names of honours now vsed in the Church the state of a Bishop be greater August Epist 19. then the state of a Prieste yet in many thinges Augustine is lesse then Hierome Notwithstanding we ought not to refuse and disdaine to be corrected of any man though he be our inferiour Vpon these wordes of S. Augustine M. Iewel reasoneth that the difference of power and authoritie betwixte Bishoppes and Priestes had no allowance from Scripture but by the custome of the Churche As though one thing could not be allowed both in Scripture and also by the common custome of the Churche The common custome of the Churche teacheth vs to feare God daily doth not the Scripture allowe the same To honour our Father and mother And doth not the Scripture commaunde the same But M. Iewel would faine make debate betwixt the custome of the Churche and the holy Scripture and therefore ful prouidently he hath interlaced a Parenthesis of his owne politike deuise in this manner The office of a Bisshop is aboue the office of a Prieste not by authoritie of the Scriptures but after the names of honour whiche the custome of the Churche hath now obteined I haue here before declared that there was a secte of Heretiques calles Aerians as S. Augustine reporteth who denied that there was any difference at al betwen the state of a Bisshop and the state of a Prieste August de Haresib ad Quoduult deuÌ„ Haeres 53. whiche opinion being accompted for heresie by S. Augustine ought to stop any reasonable mans mouth and to persuade him that S. Augustines opinion is quite contrarie to that which M. Iewel holdeth Iewel Pag. 1â—1 As for Pope Leo his ovvne authoritie in his ovvne cause can not be great The Emperour saithe Nemo debet sibi ius dicere ff Li. 2. de Iurisdict omniuÌ„ Iudicum 16. q. 6. Consuetudo in margine No man maie minister lavve vnto him selfe And it is noted thus in the Decrees Papa non
had deceiued the Pope by false suggestion Therefore if a true suggestion had ben made to the Pope his Decree should haue preuailed although it extended it selfe as farre as Spaine and that for the restitution of a Bishop against him that was newly elected a Bishop by the consent of al the Bishops of Spaine Therefore the Popes authoritie ouer other Bisshops grounding it selfe vpon a right and true information was acknowledged in the Primitiue Church Iewel Pag. 129. 130. Dist 64. cap. fin In dede touching euery Metropolitanes seueral Iurisdiction Gratianus noteth thus Illud generaliter clarum est quod si quis praeter sententiam Metropolitani fuerit factus Episcopus hunc magna synodus definiuit Episcopum esse non oportere This is generally cleare that if any man be made Bishop vvithout the consent of his Metropolitane the great councel of Nice hath decreed that such a one may not be Bishop So likevvise saith Socrates of the Bishop of Constantinople VVithout the consent of the Bishop of Constantinople let no man be chosen Bishop Socrates Lib. 7. cap. 28. Here is a right reserued specially to the Bishop of Constantinople and to euery Metropolitane vvithin his ovvne prouince But of the Bishop of Romes vniuersal right of Confirmation vve heare nothing Harding You reason vpon authoritie negatiuely as though if the Councel of Nice and Socrates speake not of that confirmation whiche belongeth to the Bishop of Rome therefore there could be no suche But it appeareth by S. Cyprian in diuers Epistles that it was the custome in his time for a Bishop newly made to sende letters to al the other Bishops intimating his Election Now as those letters came first and specially to the Bishop of Rome Cyprian Lib. 1. Epist 3. as fitting by S. Cyprians owne confession in the principal chaire and succeding S. Peter euen so if the Pope for iuste causes had not receiued the letters and communion of the said newe Bishop he then for lacke of the Popes confirmation could not rightly haue enioyed his Bishoprike as it appeareth by many examples which would require a discourse ouer long for this place nor very needeful sith the confirmation of Bishoppes is not our principal matter but only the Succession Yet M. Iewel who remēbreth of olde so much Canon Lawe may cal to his remembrance what I haue said in my Answer to the Articles of his Chalenge In my Ansvver Artic. 4. where I haue shewed that the Pope had three Legates in the Easte a In epist. Simplicij ad Acatiū one in Constantinople b In epist Bonifacij ad Eulalium the other in Alexandria c Leo epistol 82. the third in Thessalonica Whereunto M. Iewel hath replied nothing as also M. Stapleton hath noted in the Returne Now if those Bishops being not only Metropolitanes but also two of them Patriarkes were neuer the lesse the Popes Legates it is easy to see how the Popes confirmation was geuen to the Bishoppes generally vnder those Primates seing the Primates them selues were confirmed by him or els they were not accompted lawful Bishops for lacke of his cōfirmation Zonaras in vita Constātis nepot Heraclij as it is euident in the exāple of Pyrrhus the Bishop of Cōstantinople who both was put into his bishoprike by the bishop of Rome when he had persuaded him that he was Catholike and againe was put out by his autoritie when it was perceiued that he had dissembled Iewel Pag. 130. Neither doth M. Hardinges counterfeite Anacletus claime al the Bisshops thorough the vvorld as belonging to his Admission Epistol 3. dist 93. iuxta Sanctorū but only a parte These be his vvordes Omnes episcopi qui huius Apostolicae sedis ordinationi subiacent Al the bisshops that are vnder the ordering or confirmation of this Apostolike See Harding If Anacletus be counterfeite Anacletus not counterfeite it is farre from our knowledge For we found that Epistle in his name registred emong the epistles of other Popes aboue a thousand yeres past And Isidorus who gathered them found them so intitled as we reade them Therefore your slaunderours tongue toucheth not vs. Ordination and Confirmation are diuers Concerning that you accompte Ordering and Confirmation to be al one it is a grosse errour both in Grammer and in knowledge of histories Ordinatio is ordering and Confirmatio is confirmation The Ordering of bishops was done by the bishops of the same Prouince with the consent of the Metropolitane Nicen. Concil ca. 6. But the confirmation was made by other Bisshops also without the Prouince and specially by the Bishop of Rome who these many hundred yeres hath confirmed them alone bicause the vse of communicatorie letters is leaft and that is reputed don◠by the whole body which is done by the head thereof Iewel Pag. 130. Sozom. li. 6. cap. 23. So likevvise vvriteth Damasus to the Bisshops of Illyricum Par est omnes qui sunt in orbe Romano magistros consentire It is meete that al the teachers vvithin the Romaine iurisdiction should agree together Harding The olde stuffe of M Iewels Replie here repeated Before you referred these matters to your Replie as though you would haue said no more thereof and yet al this while you do but write out your Replie againe To what purpose you allege these wordes I cannot tel as the which make euidently against you and nothing for you The Romaine world or iurisdiction was both East and Weast as farre as the Romaines had conquered and they had conquered al the countries wherein al the Patriarchal Sees were placed If therefore by Damasus you wil proue that he confirmed al the bishops in the Romaine circuite surely you proue thereby that he confirmed the three Patriarkes of Alexandria of Antioche and of Ierusalem with al the bishops vnder them So wel your owne tale is tolde And in dede better it can not be tolde seing euery thing that is true is agreable with the truth and therefore what soeuer you falsifie not must needes proue against you who susteine the false cause Iewel Pag. 130. Againe that you say a Bisshop hath alvvaies benne consecrated by other three Bisshops vvhether it be true or no it may vvel be called in question a◠being of your parte hitherto very vveakely affirmed Harding My affirmation therein is taken out of the fact of the three Apostles S. Peter S. Iohn and S. Iames Euseb histor Eccl. lib. 2. ca. 2 who as Eusebius witnesseth did consecrate our Lordes brother the first bishop of Ierusalem And he againe reciteth it out of Clemens Alexandrinus So auncient was this tradition whereof now M. Iewel doubteth The same likewise is againe witnessed in the fourth Councel Concil holden at Carthage Cartha 4 where two bishops are prescribed to holde the booke of the Gospels ouer the Bishops head Can. 2. whiles the third blesseth him Iewel Pag. 130. Surely Petrus de Palude
A DETECTION OF SVNDRIE FOVLE ERROVRS LIES SCLAVNDERS CORRVPTIONS AND OTHER false dealinges touching Doctrine and other matters vttered and practized by M. Iewel in a Booke lately by him set foorth entituled A Defence of the Apologie c. By Thomas Harding Doctor of Diuinitie Psalm 4. Filij hominum vsquequo graui corde vt quid diligitis vanitatem quaeritis Mendacium O ye sonnes of menne how long wil ye be dul harted what meane ye thus to be in loue with Vanitie and to seeke after Lying RESPICITE VOLATILIA COELI ET PVLLOS CORVORVM IF LOVANII Apud Ioannem Foulerum Anno 1568. CVM PRIVILEGIO REgiae Maiestatis Priuilegio concessum est Thomaâ— Hardingo Sacra Theologia Professori vt Librum inscriptum A Detection of sundrie foule errours lies sclaunders c. per Typographum aliquem Iuratum imprimere ac impunè distrahere liceat Datum Bruxellis 24. Maij. Anno 1568. Subsig Vander A A. The Preface to the Reader AT the first comming of this Treatie to mens handes what saith one so smal a Booke for answer to so great a Volume Shal this Detection conteining litle aboue one hundred streetes of Paper matche the Defence that is almost foure hundred sheetes What meaneth D. Harding Is he not hable to confute M. Iewel Or is he loth to take paines To this I answer How hable I am to confute what so euer M. Iewel hath written not onely in his late pretensed Defence but also in his Replie or in the Apologie whereof at leaste he is thought to haue benne the penneman let it be iudged by the learned this wil I boldly saie if he haue no better meane to make his partie good then hitherto he hath vsed write he what him liste it shal be no great praise to any man to haue confuted him As it had benne smal glorie for valiant Achilles to haue beaten Thersites whom Homere describeth ready of his tongue and a coward of his handes so among the skilful Diuines he may not looke to winne great coÌ„mendation of learning who confuteth M. Iewelles writinges For certainely good Reader if thou haue but a meane insight in these Controuersies nowe so much disputed of betwixte the Protestantes and vs and wilt bestowe some good labour about the exacte trial of the thinges he hath written thou shalt easily espie the feeblenesse of his side Thou shalt finde that he perfourmeth more in shewe then in acte that commonly he maketh vp in Tale where he lacketh of Weight that with multitude of wordes he couerâ—th thâ— pâ—nurâ—â— of Râ—â—â—â—â— that with huge numbers of Doctours sainges he setteth foorth the barrennesse of substantial Prouâ—â—â— aâ— mâ—ny do their thinne Hippes with stufte Hosen and their solender Armes with bombast Sleeues This being so whereas the dewe discussion of these pointes in controuersie descendeth vnto the bottom of thinges and swimmeth not aboue vpon the fome of wordes euery man can soone conceiue howe meane learning may suffice to confute such a Writer If therefore I make profession of sufficient habilitie in this case there is no cause why I should be reprehended as one that attributeth more vnto him selfe then male seeme to stand with modestie This muche being said for proufe of habilitie some perhappes would beare what I haue to saie for my selfe that I am not lothe to take paines For he that is hable to doo a good and profitable worke and refuseth the labour to doo it seemeth to be gilty of slâ—wth True it is to refel al that M. Iewel hath written or rather gathered together out of others for in deedâ— he doth nothing els in manner but laie together heâ—pes of other mennes sayinges against the Catholique Churche and against the Catholique Religion it were greate paine By iudgement bothe of Cicero and Quintilian the labour of writing is accompted very greate And the Scripture saith Eccles 12. Faciendi plures libros nullus est finis frequénsque meditatio carnis afflictio est There is no ende of making moe Bookes and the often breaking of a mannes braines about suche studie is a greate pounishment to the bodie If any doubte hereof let him set him selfe a worke earnestly about writing in suche sorte as I speake of and he shal saie as I doo I doubte not And therefore it behoueth them that geue them selues to writing to haue not onely health but also good strength of bodie Al this M. Iewel knewe right wel And for that very cause when he sawe that smal bookes would fone be answered as it appeared by my Answer made to his Chalenge and by my Confutation of the Apologie he thought it better policie or it was so put in his head by the aduise of his brethren to goe an other waie to worke that is to saie to replie vpon me and to make his Defence with huge Volumes that either a long time should passe before an answere could be returned hoping that in the meane while his Gospel should take too deepe a roote afterward to be pluckt vp out of the Readers haâ—tâ—s by any what so euer booke that should come to their handes or that I should be wearied and worne out with the labour of answering and perhappes die before I came to the ende or that the very hugenesse of the bookes should fraie me from the enterprise of making aâ—swer In this case it seemed to mee best neither by taking vpon me to answere the whole Bookes and euery parcel of them to geue our Aduersaries the aduantage of the time not to shorten my life by immoderate paines emploied to no great profite nor by my silence and by open geuing ouer the whole as it were by fleeing out of the fielde to leaue them vnto their Triumphe but by answering the pointes of greatest importance to set forth a sufficient Defence of the truth for staying of the doubteful to confirme them in the true doctrine and thereby to geue out a cleere euidence what truthe is to be looked for in the reste of his superfluous stuffe sith he hath shewed him selfe so vntrue a dealer in the chiefe matters Thus haue I doâ—ne not yeelding to slewth but moued with good aduise noâ— as being loth to take paines and to susteine a long trauaile but as one who the state of the present time considered and the vncertaintie of thinges to come mistrusted thought it better to doo some good out of hande though it were of losse labour then by long differring whiles a larger Volume were intended to suffer to the losse of many soules so muche false doctrine to grow in credite As touching the Replie what hath benne donne to those that reade our bookes it is not vnknowen What so euer he had to bring against the Râ—â—â—â—resâ—nce against the Sacrifice of the Bodie and bloude of Christâ— against the Masse whereat the Priest receiueth the Communion without other companie receiuing sacramentally with him in the same place against the Churche Sâ—â—â—ice in a learned tongue against the anciâ—â—◠〈◊〉 of
his quotations to be in my said two Bookes whiche are not there in deede altogether in that order and meaning as he vntruly hath alleged them I proue his dealing herein partely to be agreable to his other false demeanour and partely that good and iust causes there were why I should writing against him vse suche order of language Furthermore bicause he woulde the great and manifolde Vntruthes with whiche I charged him to seeme no Vntruthes at al but that al is the Gospel what so euer commeth from his Mouthe and whereas for proufe thereof he hath set forth a View of his Vntruthes the least of al that he could espie by me noted against him and pretendeth to iustifie the same his least Vntruthes in the said View I haue made an answere to that View of Vntruthes and there doo shewe manifestly specially in the chiefe pointes where errour is most perilous that he was truely and iustly charged with those Vntruthes and that for ought he hath yet said in Defence of them he remaineth stil chargeable with the same as before This muche I haue perfourmed in the first Booke After this in foure bookes folowing I detecte his Errours Lies Cauilles shiftes Sclaunders and sundrie vntrue matters founde in the firste and seconde parte of his Defence And in respecte thereof I cal the Treatie A Detection of sundrie foule errours lies sclaunders c. At length hauing tried by very certaine experience and exacte view of the whole Booke that there was no ende of lying what place so euer in reading my eie lighted vppon I thought it most profitable and most agreable with my profession to let passe thinges of smal importance the handeling of whiche serued him specially to scoffe to vtter vile matter againste the Churche and to fil vp his Booke in tended at the beginning to be made greate and to treate of the Articles of Doctrine in defence of the Truthe and to confute what he hath brought to the contrarie Among whiche Articles of doctrine of some I haue treated briefly as being alreadie treated of in my Confutation and otherwheres of some at good length and with more diligence as of Succession and of the vnlawful Marriages of Priestes and al other Votaries wherein he is very large and copious of Doctours sayinges of al sortes but vtterly destitute of any one saying that maketh cleerely for his parte In the ende I doo most euidently disproue and refel what he was hable to bring for Defence of two pointes which he is not ashamed to affirme seming to me the one very false the other very sclaunderous The first is as he auoucheth them that matters of faith and Ecclesiastical causes are to be iudged by the Ciuile Magistrate The other is that the Papistes haue taught that simple Fornication is no sinne How weake proufes he bringeth for the one and for the other and yet how shamelesly he goeth about to prooue them by conference of bothe our Treaties it shal appeare Withal there I haue added a Comparison of Errours in mistaking names of menne bookes Chapters c. with whiche M. Iewel chargeth me and I him Matters let passe vvith treating vvhereof the Defence is grovven to a Huge Volume Thus haue I declared in fewe the Summe as it were and Order of this Treatie As for sundrie other matters as of forged Scriptures of the doctrine of Deuilles so he calleth the forbidding of Priestes Monkes Friers and Nunnes to marrie of the fruites of single life whereof he laith out great stoare of filthy sayinges of S. Iames Epistle whether it be Canonical Scripture of sundrie ancient Traditions now growen out of vse of the Fourmes and Accidentes whereat he scoffeth like a Vice plaier of the number of the Sacraments of the Churche which we defende to be seuen he affirmeth to be but two or els so many as the thinges be vnto which the name of Sacrament is by any Writer applied which are very many of the Faith of Infantes of their new found Imaginatiue Faith or rather phantastical Imaginatiō that eateth the bodie and drinketh the bloud of Christ of the Popes Dispensations of dissensions among the Fathers of Nominales and Reales of Thomistes and Scotistes of diuersitie of religious persons Apparel wherein he saith they put great holinesse of the variance betwen the Lutherās and the Zuinglians of the fable of Dame Iohane the woman Pope of the Marble Image lying in the high way at Rome of the stoole of easement of Porphyrie stoane at Lateran of Athenes and Rome whether they were Vniuersities in the time this Dame Iohane is feyned to haue liued in of the vicious life of Petrus Aloisius Duke of Parma and Placentia of Iohn Diazius death of the slaughter of the Boures of Germanie that tooke weapons against the nobilitie there prouoked by the preaching of Luther and his scholers of Constantines Donation of Poison ministred in the Sacrament as he reporteth feined fables for stories of great soothe of the abomination of desolation of the state of the Church of Rome of Antichrist of the mistaking of Cardinal Hosius of their pretensed burning of the Scriptures of S. Augustine the Apostle of the English Nation that he was a wicked man of Priestes keeping of Concubines of Images of Latine Praiers and Churche Seruice of Comparison of learning betwene the Catholiques and the Protestantes of Rome whether it be Babylon of summoning of Councelles of the Stewes in Rome whereof gladly he vttereth muche talke of kissing the Popes foote of the Popes hurling of Franciscus Daldulus fast tied in chaines vnder his table there to gnaw boanes with his Dogges of the Popes Bridle and Stirop to be holden by Princes of Pope Hildebrandes surmised wicked deedes as they fable of the Popes treadding on the Emperours necke of the Pope whether he be euer holy of the Popes Exactions of the Cheast in the Popes bosom whether the Pope be God of the Popes power feined to be ouer Angels whether the Pope can commit Simonie whether the Pope be King of Kinges whether the Pope be aboue general Councels whether the Pope maie erre or no whether the Pope be a Kinge Of these and of a great many moe suche matters whereof some be lothesom some be fabulous vaine and friuolous some be false sclaunderous and spiteful some blasphemous some alreadie sufficiently treated of briefly al tending vnto the contempt of the Catholique Religion as M. Iewel handleth them in which matters he hath vttered the stoare of his learning Of these I saie I haue said nothing much disaduantaging my selfe thereby and the common cause which I defend for so much as in the making vp of his great Booke with heaping together these ministerly matters he hath vttered as he doth euery where els good stoare of most euident and grosse Lies of which his owne frendes and best fauourers in case thei were detected would be ashamed These forenamed be the thinges which I haue briefly handled and these other and
Reader how he keepeth him selfe a luffe of from the point with what stuffe he filleth certaine leaues of his Booke how he starreth from Doctour to Doctour how he confoundeth him selfe and the Reader and though he bring neuer so much out of other Writers yet commeth not at al to the point directly First Pag. 165. he laboureth to discredite the holy Ancient Fathers as menne that haue not dealte indifferently herein but haue gonne to farre either in the auancing of Virginitie or in the disgracing of lawful Matrimonie Before he entreth his Allegations whereof that whole Treatie standeth he putteth foorth twoo sayinges the one of Origen the other of S. Hierome in reproufe of them that condemned Matrimonie And yet euen there immediatly after he allegeth them both for condemners of Matrimonie Then he laith foorth the stoare of his Allegations whereby he would haue it appeare Tertulliā alleged by M. Ievvel against the Churche in that for vvhiche he is condēned of the Churche that certaine Ancient Writers had an euil opinion of Matrimonie There he allegeth two sayinges of Tertullian in exhortatione ad castitatem whiche Booke he wrote against the Churche as S. Hierome saith and therefore it is condemned of the Churche for whiche cause he should not haue alleged him then twoo sayinges out of the Authour of the imperfite worke vppon S. Matthew vnder the name of S. Chrysostome which also is a worke ful of heresies Item certaine sayinges out of S. Hierome writing against Iouinian and Heluidius Againe sayinges out of Athenagoras S. Hierome Gregorie Nazianzen and Origen by whiche he beareth the Reader in hande they haue condemned the seconde Marriages of Widowers and Widowes After this he reckeneth vp so manie Priestes Pag. 166. and Bishops as he hath read of to haue benne married menne who in deede were married before they receiued holy Orders and not otherwise There Palea Palea that is to say the Chaffe that is set out in Gratian concerning Priestes and Bishops that were many Popes Fathers a very fonde fabulous tale is admitted to the place of a great Doctor yet by him much falsified Pag. 167. and altered from that he found in Gratians booke There also beside the report of Aeneas Syluius whiche him selfe recanted and of Polydore Vergil a man of our time and in these matters of smal credite he sticketh not to praie helpe of one Fabian a late seely Chronicler of London and with his woorshipful testimonie forsooth would faine prooue his mater that is to saie with a maine Lie that Bishoppes and Priestes lyued a thousand yeres together with their Wiues no lawe being to the contrarie Nowe were al these thinges true according to the purporte of M. Iewelles doctrine as for the more parte they are very false and the Doctours by him corrupted and very vntruly reported what should they make for his purpose I meane for the point it selfe of this Controuersie which is that it is lawful to marrie after the Vowe of Chastitie or after holy Orders receiued For I trow M. Iewel wil not vse this simple kind of Logique Certaine ancient Writers condemned Matrimonie which is vtterly false in respecte of al others by M Iewel here named excepte Tertullian that condemned the seconde Marriages whom the Churche for the same reiecteth Item certaine learned and holy menne in the Primitiue Churche were made Priestes and Bisshoppes after they had benne married Ergo it is lawful to marrie after the Vowe of Chastitie and after holy Orders taken As this reason is fonde and litle worth so al the sayinges of Writers whiche he hath heaped together hitherto serue him to no purpose but to increase the bulke of his Booke After al this feeling him selfe pressed with the force of the Vowe which being aduisedly made is of necessitie to be performed as I prooued in my Confutation to keepe him selfe stil a luffe of from the point of the Question he taketh a newe waie saying that the Priestes in England were neuer Votaries Touching this matter whether the Priestes of England were Votaries or no F◠290. ◠I referre the Reader vnto the first Chapter of the fifth booke of this Treatie Howsoeuer it be by this answer M. Iewel fleeth from the point as farre as he fled before For the Question is whether Priestes in general that haue made a Vowe of Chastitie maie marrie and he answereth that Priestes of England be not Votaries Which answer serueth as aptly in this case as if a question being demaūded of him whether Heretikes are to be burned he would answer we the Superintendentes of England and our Ministers be no heretiques From this he conueigheth him selfe to certaine common places and bringeth in a Huge number of Doctours sayinges tending to this meaning in effect that Chastitie is hard to keepe that it is the gifte of God that God geueth it not to al that it is to be counselled but not commaunded that a man consider wel of what strength he is and if he see him selfe not hable to perfourme the preceptes of Virginitie that rather then he fal into the dungeon of deadly sinne he take a wife and vse the remedie ordeined against incontinencie Al which sayinges we graunt be true and are to be vnderstanded of them whiche be free and haue not bounde them selues by deliberate Vowe to conteine To be shorte it were a very tedious thing here to reherse how he ronneth from Doctour to Doctour how he craueth stuffing of the Canonistes and Schoolemen whom God wote he litle esteemeth how he writeth out their sentences and therewith filleth vp his Booke As for the ancient Doctours sayinges that folow after al this they are spoken some against the perfourmance of wicked Vowes some serue for admonition that certaine maie be suffred to marrie who hauing made onely a simple Vowe either can not or wil not conteine and that the Marriages of suche personnes ought to stand for good and not to be dissolued some importe rebuke of filthy life and exhortation to Chastitie some be written against them that either vtterly condemned the state of Matrimonie or willed Priestes and Deacons in the Primitiue Churche to be compelled to forsake the companie of their lawful Wiues whiche they had married before they receiued holy Orders Thus he writeth out other mennes sayinges without order or discretiō skippeth from one matter to an other and emptieth as it were the stoare of his Notebookes into this Defence and when he hath shuffled in al he proueth nothing directly but onely bringeth the Reader to a Confusion and commeth not at al to the discussion of the point that we staie vpon whiche in this matter of Priestes Marriages is that to marrie it is not lawful after deliberate Vowe of chastitie made nor after holy Orders receiued What colourable argumentes or testimonies he bringeth to proue the affirmatiue Infrà lib. 5 Cap. 2 in this Treatie Reader thou shalt see them cleerely confuted Likewise to shew
Religious personnes and others of the Clergie detected What if I saie al these and many other suche thinges were graunted of whiche we are persuaded that some are true the more parte is false muche is so written as it maie be defended no lesse then impugned What great inconuenience what preiudice to our Faith can ensue of al this Must the Catholike and ancient Doctrine of the Churche for these pointes be founde vntrue Must this now needes be made a good Argument Some of their liues were sinneful Ergo their Doctrine was false Truely these be the matters with the enlarging whereof his Defence hath risen to so huge a quantitie About whiche I haue not thought it needeful to bestow muche labour partly bicause in most of those pointes my Confutation of the Apologie yet standeth vnrefelled partly also bicause it liked me not to emploie good houres in so friuolous and vnfruitful a trauaile but chiefly bicause what so euer be said by M. Iewel touching these thinges either on the one side or on the other it importeth no disprouse of the Catholique doctrine in any Article whiche specially I haue taken in hande to mainteine Howbeit the thinges he bringeth in to deface the Churche must needes with wise menne in this case beare smal credite being considered vpon whose authorities and reportes they be auouched The Catholikes can not be greatly moued with suche thinges as are written in preiudice of the Churche either by them whose Bookes be of suspected faith and therefore condemned by the Church as Auentinus and Beno de vita Hildebrandi or haue ben corrupted of late yeres by the Lutheranes of Germanie as Vrspergensis In Indice librorum prohibitorum Antonius de Rosellis Polydorus Vergilius de Inuentoribus rerum Paschasius and others or who haue benne muche inclined to innouations in Religion and fauoured the Procedinges of Luther and his disciples as Erasmus Cornelius Agrippa Carion Lorichius Cassander and suche others or who be knowen to be manifest Heretiques and professed enemies of the Churche as Gaspar Hedio the Author of Paralipomena added to Vrspergensis Anselmus Rid Vergerius Sleidan Illyricus Fabritius Montanus Iacobus Andreae and many suche others al whiche M. Iewel allegeth against the Churche the Popes and the Clergie boldely as if they were Doctours of sufficient authoritie and sound credite against whom specially in these matters no exception might be taken As there is no cause why we shoulde greatly esteeme any thing spoken by these either against the manners of the Clergie or against the Ceremonies and customes of the Churche or against any parte of the Catholique Doctrine bicause in iudgement the bare worde of the Accuser or of him that otherwise is an il willer beareth smal credite against any man So touching the doctrine of Faith we feare not what so euer M. Iewel allegeth against vs out of the Schoolemenne Canonistes of al sortes Summistes and Glosers out of the Cardinalles and those other learned and graue menne appointed by Paulus Tertius to geue information of thinges in the state of the Churche to be refourmed and out of the Bisshoppes speaking their mindes freely in the late Councel of Trent For we are wel assured how so euer M. Iewel telleth their tales for them they helde and mainteined the doctrine which we professe in euery condition What so euer therefore he bringeth out of them bearing any sound of wordes against the Catholike Faith as very litle it is that to that effecte he can bring though with heapes of their sayinges he hath filled his great Volume the same is either by heate of Disputation or by waie of Obiection against the Truthe after the Scholastical manner for the better opening of the Truthe or by vehemencie of zele or perhappes by humaine ouersight vttered otherwise then by them is determined in their Conclusions whereof the taking of aduantage is vndue and ouer captious or by some sleight of M. Iewel falsified and corrupted or to saie the least by vntrue cōstruction wrested to a sense by the Authour neuer intended How so euer it be they shew them selues either very blinde of iudgement or very contentious wranglers or very vaine Ianglers that allege the wordes of any Writer against the Catholique doctrine whose whole course of life shewed him to be Catholique Which is tolde vs by S. Augustine as a moste certaine rule whereby to vnderstand mennes wordes in matter of Religion And therefore thus he crieth out vpon the blindenesse of such men among whom M. Iewel maie take him selfe annumbred that wil not vnderstād mens wordes by their dedes Aug. contra Epist Parme. li. 3. cap. 4. Incredibilis est coecitas hominum omnino nescio quemadmodum credi posset esse in hominibus tāta peruersitas nisi experimento verborum suorū factorūque patesceret vsqueadeo se clausos habere cordis oculos vt cōmemorent sancta Scripturae testimonia nec intueantur in factis Prophetarū quemadmodum intelligenda sint verba Prophetarū The blindnesse of men is inoredible and certainely I wote not how I might make one beleeue that there were such frowardnesse in men onlesse by the proufe of their wordes and deedes it appeared openly that the eyes of their harte were so faste shut vp that they allege the testimonies of the holy Scripture and doo not behold in the doinges of the Prophetes how the wordes of the Prophetes are to be vnderstanded Wherefore seing the farre greater parte of M. Iewels Defence consisteth of their sayinges heaped together of whom some were either them selues or their workes being vntruly set forth after their death of suspect faith some found to fauour heretikes some professed heretikes some contrariwise knowen by publike profession of their life to be perfite Catholikes making litle accompt what they of the one side saie as being of no credite specially in matter of Faith and not doubting but these of the other side meant wel and godly how so euer their wordes by M. Iewel be abused corrupted and misconstrued in consideratiō thereof good Reader I iudged a short Treatie might suffice in this case shorte I meane in comparison of that Huge Volume fraught with so much voide impertinent and superfluous stuffe Otherwise it is longer I am wel assured then he shal euer be hable aptly truly and directly to confute I saie not but he maie do eftsones as he hath twise already donne that is to saie gather together a huge number of sayinges out of al sortes of Writers and printing this Treatie withal sende vs forth an other great booke conteining much stuffe to litle purpose and not once touching the very precise pointes wherein he is charged with foule errours and falshed But to come directly to the pointes by me thoroughly refelled and with good proufes to iustifie the same keeping him selfe in from idle ranging abroad in matters not denied or otherwise impertinent this is that I affirme he shal neuer be hable to perfourme though he write againe as muche as
custome of falsifying al that he taketh in hande euen here also he playeth that parte as kindely as any where elles For although some suche wordes or the like be in deede founde in my writinges against him yet they beare not suche an owgly and lothsom visard as he putteth on them As for example whereas sometimes for good cause I can not finde in my harte to cal these mennes rash Innouation of the auncient religion their wicked abrogation of certaine Sacramentes their vile prophanation of the reste their horrible contempte of the body and bloude of Christe in the most blessed Sacrament of the Aulter whereas I say I can not finde in my harte to cal these thinges Godly procedinges restoring of the Gospel the sincere Worde the right Ministration of the Lordes Supper as they would al men to cal them but contrarywise Deuilish spite wickednes and villanie to cause the mater to seme more odious he reporteth my wordes thus your Deuilish spite your Deuilish wickednes your Deuilish villanie c as thoughe I had spoken them to him and to his felowes specially whereas for the more part suche wordes are spoken not in the second but in the third person of the Heretikes of our time indefinitely and in general Whiche neuerthelesse if I had spoken vnto him and them directly it had ben no greeuous sinne their desert considered For therein had I folowed the counsel whiche S. Antonie that blessed man gaue vnto his Scholers a litle before he departed this life To whom he said thus as S. Athanasius who wrote his life reporteth Athanas in vita Antonij Haereticorum venena vitate meumque erga eos odium sectamini Scitis quòd nullus mihi pacificus sermo cum eis fuerit Auoide the poisons of Heretiques and folow the hatred that I haue borne them Ye know that I had neuer any peaseable talke with them How so euer it be it had benne M. Iewels parte to haue vsed more truth in his writing But why did he not set forth my whole sayinges where suche wordes be placed What reason is it a man to burthen his Aduersarie with certaine wordes only and with silence to dissemble his entiere sentences By what laudable example hath he done thus Whiche of the olde Fathers euer did so If no man euer did it before these daies then so farre as the Catholique Church hath not erred in Faith and hath no neede now to receiue a new Gospel of Luther Zuinglius or Caluine by this practise he sheweth him selfe aswel a folower of the inuentours of new malice as a mainteiner of new Heresies Brentius the first author of this new deuise of laying the Aduersaries sharpe wordes together in one heape practized by M. Iewel This deuise of laying together in a heape al the sharpe wordes with whiche one feeleth him selfe prickte culled out of the aduersaries wriâ—â—nges is very strange and new and before this age whiche bringeth forth many rare nouelties was neuer vsed of any learned man In our time it is begonne and for ought I know first practized by Brentius who in the beginning of his booke against Bullinger entituled Recognitio propheticae Apostolicae doctrinae c written in defence of his newe doctrine of Vbiquitie laieth together in a heape al the wordes that Bullinger had vttered in his booke against him whiche might seeme sharpe rough and vngentle so softely must these menne now be handled after that they haue spent al their intemperate railing vpon the Pope the Papistes the most blessed Sacrament of the Aulter the daily Sacrifice the other Sacramentes and the godly Ceremonies of holy Churche Wherefore M. Iewel is not like to haue the glorie of this new deuise he must be content to yeelde it vnto Iohn Brentius whose ape and folower he is in this as in many other pointes worthy of smal praise Now if Bullinger the grande Captaine of the Sacramentaries of which secte M. Iewel is a professed mainteiner thought it not vnseemely for the grauitie of his Ministership to be so plaine with Brentius as to put him in minde sometimes of his deserued titles by saying he was Rixator Spiritus inflatus CaluÌ„niator c. a Branler In RespoÌ„sione BreÌ„tij ad primam partem Bullingeri pag. 8. 9. a pufte Sprite a spiteful speaker a skoffer a mocker a Hickescorner a peruerter a lyer vncleane impudeÌ„t a babler a brabler a craker a thrower of Christ out of his heauenly seate madde light childish a iangler a reuiler a sclaunderous person an Eutychian a Sophiste a railer woorse then Swenckefeldius him selfe Againe if he thought it not discommendable in him selfe being the chiefe Superintendent of Zurich to cal BreÌ„tius booke writen in defence of that new heresie Brentianas nebulas figmenta c. The mistes and deuises of Brentius Head vaine and peeuish â—oies knauish folies a doctrine dissoluing the hope of the faithfulles assured saluation in heauen a madnesse a phantasie Sophistrie crafty fetches most false deuises a feeble write Sophismes guiles a booke of Riddles a fabulous monstre a Sophistical Egypte stincking trifles prodigious Vbiquitie frantique wordes c If Bullinger I saie one of your noblest Worthies thought it not vnseemely for his degree and state to vse suche bitter eloquence and order of speach in reprouing Brentius and was neuer and it is like should neuer haue benne reproued for it among them of your owne Sacramentarie Secte M. Iewel why are you so heauy a Maister to me whom you esteeme muche lesse then Henrie Bullinger the Successour of your great Patriarke Zuinglius in the Chaier of your doctrine at Zurich as to blame that in me whiche you could not finde in your harte to disallow in Bullinger Wel how so euer in please you fauorably to iudge of your owne great Maisters and laye lode of reproches vpon me yet this muche you maie cal to your consideration Wordes considered alone without composition sounde good or euil according to their signification and al manner of wordes may be vsed without blame Of the sentences and whole sayinges onely where the circumstance may be considered and weighed faire or fowle speache is conceiued Now if thou wilt take the paines Reader to turne to the places of my bookes whence M. Iewel hath piked out those wordes for vse of whiche he reproueth me as a man of vncourteous vtterance thou shalt right wel perceiue in case heresie haue not vtterly bewitched thyne vnderstanding and bereued thee of al iudgement the verdure of my speache to be suche as may seme conuenient for a vessel of the holy Ghoste to taste of It may please M. Iewel to consider that by degree of Schoole and by lawful calling otherwise I stand in the place of teachers And therefore though at this present the Pulpite be denyed me yet I find not my selfe wholly so discharged of the office of teaching Now hauing no other conuenient meane to teache but by writing what ought I at this tyme to write
Esaie Esai 5â— This is my couenaunt with them my spirite whiche is in thee and my wordes that I haue put in thy mowth shal not departe from thy mowth and from the mowth of thy seede and from the mowth of thy seedes seede from this time for euer Lo here ye heare bothe the wordes of God and the Spirite of truthe by whom the wordes may be rightly vnderstanded promised to remaine with the Church for euer Thus we are wel assured that the Churche hath neuer failed nor wanted Goddes worde goddes Spirite and Goddes truthe But ye my Maisters of the new learning do say that the Churche failed and was destitute of Goddes worde and of his spirite of Truthe for the space of nyne hundred yeres and more vntil Martin Luther came and restored the lost Gospel By vertue of whiche Gospel neuer preached before ye claime the right of the Church and so would dispossesse vs wherein of necessitie ye must graunt one of these two either that Christe the Sonne of God promised more then he perfourmed whiche were heinous blasphemie or that your Churche hath continued til this day and shal continue to the worldes ende If to eschew the reproche of so wicked a blasphemie ye graunt the continuance of your Churche ye must tel vs where it was before Luther began to preache that ye cal the Gospel Name the place where was it Or was it somewhere without a place Dic quibus in terris eris mihi magnus Apollo If it were at al where were your Bishops What were their names or were they men without names Bring forth your Originals your Registers your Rolles of Bishops that folowed one after an other by lawful succession For this were a sure way for proufe of your right Tertull. In prascript Optatus August muche commended and vsed of the best learned Fathers Your Actes and Monumentes where be they Haue ye none of greater antiquitie then those late of Foxes making If ye had a continual succession how came Luther and Zuinglius first to the Gospel how was al the light quite out before how were al the fonteines of the water of life vtterly dryed vp before his time for so ye write in your Apologie This this can not stand together M. Iewel by no meanes as al the world may see So then it is we kepe our ancient Possession ye heaue and shooue to remoue vs from it We be of the howseholde ye are strangers We are the heires of the Apostles ye are forrainers We are the lawful Children of the Churche ye are Bastardes to be shorte and plaine whereas we are Catholiques what foloweth but that ye be Heretiques The case standing thus what great offence haue I committed if where I defende the common cause of the Churche being moued with dew zeale and iuste griefe of mynde to see your vngodly dealinges I forgete sometimes the flattering Titles wherewith ye woulde your proceedinges to be magnified and vse wordes more agreable to your desertes O ye saie I vse vncourteous and vnciuile speache Why sir if ye skreake like Frogges must we saie ye sing like Nightingalles If ye crowe like proude Cockes must we saie ye mourne like simple Dooues If ye byte vs like Mastiâ—â—s must we say ye licke vs like gentle Spaniâ—h If ye consume vs and deuoure vs like rauening Wolues must we say ye profite vs like good Sheepe Must we tel the worlde that your Serpentes be Fisshes your Snakes be Lamproies your Scorpions be Creauises briefly that your deadly Poison is holesom Triacle What were this but to please men and to deceiue Goddes people But let vs go from Metaphores and come to the plaine mater If your Doctrine be false as by most sufficient waies we haue proued it to be shal we be vnciuile excepte we sooth it If your deedes be vngodly as the worlde seeth and rueth shal we be vncourteous excepte we iustifie them If ye say Nay for Yea and Yea for Nay in Goddes causes shal we be blamed as men vnciuil and vncourteous except we vpholde your Yea and your Nay We can be content to lacke the praise of suche sinneful Ciuilitie of suche wicked Courtesie If any priuely pike money out of our purses steale our goodes robbe by the high waye kil men and attempte traison to their Princes person standeth it with good manner to cal them Pikepurses Theeues Robbers Murderers Traitours and whereas you and your felowes teache and stubbornly mainteine a false doctrine concerning the real presence that here I speake of no other pointes by the Churche and by Luther him selfe the first founder of your owne Gospel condemned for Heresie must it needes be an vncourteous parte to cal you Heretiques To touche some of your rawest Gaulles for making proffer to whiche ye wince and kicke so muche euery where â—nd specially where ye laye forth al my sharpe wordes with suche diligence gathered together out of my bookes into one heape before your Preface to the Reader For so muche as it is geuen forth by Luthers owne confession that by the conference and disputation which the Deuil had with him he was persuaded to defie the Masse and become enemie to the blessed Sacrifice of the Churche and your selfe M. Iewel haue geuen your verdite in fauour of Luther and Satan Sathans doctrine Sathan their Schoole Maister In the Replie art 1. Diuision 2. allowing Satans Doctrine in that point and Luthers conformitie imbracing the same also for your owne parte as you haue openly witnessed in your Replie what offence was it to say for whiche you shewe your selfe greeued that ye ioined with Satan and concerning the spite ye beare at the Masse to cal Satan your Schoolemaister That I called this new founded Churche of the Protestantes a Babylonical tower not without iuste cause It angreth you that I cal this new Church of yours for so a Gods name we must name it Your Babylonical Tower And this is for a heinous worde scored vp among the rest in your said Rolle you tel the Quene of it also in your Epistle to her Maiestie but how iustly ye be offended therewith let it be considered by that I shal here briefly declare Dissensions among the Protestantes Who knoweth not that is any thing acquainted with the affaires of oure age into how many Sectes they haue diuided them selues that forsooke the Catholique Churche sithence Luther beganne to leade vs a newe daunce in Religion what controuersies debates and strifes about the weightiest pointes of our Faith haue benne stirred vp and moste earnestly mainteined among them Who hath not heard of the brawling and skolding betwene Luther and Zuinglius and the vpholders of either side about the Doctrine of the Euchariste Neither hath the matter benne handled with any better quiet betwene the Osiandrines and the Stancarians touching the Iustification of man the one Secte attributing it vnto Christes Diuine nature the other vnto his humaine nature onely Againe what sturre hath benne made about
you are to defend it what wise man seeth not Yet bicause you thinke your selfe shamed for euer excepte you stand to it stoutely ye proceede without regard of truth or modestie And nowe seing your selfe brought to this distresse that you must either yeelde with some shame or prosecute your Chalenge with more shame ye choose rather to seeme impudent in lying and to passe al measure in craking then any thing ouerseene in that you first tooke in hande And albeit bothe I and others haue made most euident proufe hereof and the thing it selfe speaketh so muche yea and your owne very frendes see it and be right sorfor it yet forsooth to cal M. Iewel a lyer a sclaunderer a craking Chalenger by verdite of M. Iewel him selfe it was vnmannerly and vnciuilly done But sir sith you require me to be so courteous in my writinges against you why did not you your selfe in yours against me vse more courtesie Is that commendable in you whiche is reproueable in me Or els what haue you a special dispensation to say what you liste and to require al others to adore you and say Aue Rabbi Shal it be lawful for you to crie out vpon vs tolle tolle crucifige and must we sing vnto you Sanctus Sanctus Sanctus Whiles ye barke and bite must we caste a disshe of fragmentes vnto you Whiles ye play the Beare with vs must we throw honny vnto you Whiles ye play the parte of Satan must we light a candle before you S. Paule the chosen vessel of Christe teaching Titus Tit. 1. how to demeane himselfe towardes such as you are said Increpa illos durè rebuke them sharpely But what soeuer you say or doo must we needes sothe you and smooth◠you Muste we stroke you and cooxe you as men doo curst boyes after they haue done shrewd turnes If you passe al men that euer wrote in number of lyes in vanitie of boasting in the common custom of scoffing as now it hath benne prooued against you shal we feare that we seeme not to lacke the ciuilitie you speake of to cal you a lyer a boaster a scoffer What is the matter that doing so il you require to be spoken of so wel By this or no vvaie els like it is we should please M. Ievvel PErhaps whereas the Rentes of the Bishoprike of Sarisburie cause men al to belorde you your eares being of long tyme accustomed to suche honorable greetinges you looke to be honoured at our handes as you are of your poore hungry Craftesmen that hauing learned to reade Englishe pretily sue vnto you for Ministerships And then whereas you lye impudently folowing them we muste saie were it not that your good Lordship saith so verely we should haue thought otherwise And whereas you falsifie your testimonies we must put the fault in your Spectacles When you hew and mangle the Doctours so fowly that al the worlde may see it we must beare you in hande that when your Lordship wrote so the booke was not at hande When you serue vs with a point of Scurrilitie we muste saye O howe it becommeth your L. to be meary When you shoote at randon diuerting altogether from the special point that is to be answered vnto impertinent matter we must say your L. shooteth faire though somewhat wide of the marke When by no witte nor cunning you are hable to make good your Chalenge yet then we must say that your L. lacketh no woordes and hath geuen a good Push towardes it To be shorte for these be the special pointes for whiche you accuse my vtterance of vncourtesie when you speake big and Goliathlike vpbraid al the hoste of God to witte the whole Catholique Churche of these laste thousand yeres what must we doo but to shew token of feare 1. Reg. 17. as the Israelites vnder king Saul did and geue backe that you may boast and crake alone Truly touching your dignitie what accompte so euer you make of your selfe I take you but for M. Iewel Bacheler of Diuinitie sometime person of Sunningwel betwen Oxford and Abington And that is the greatest degree that euer I knewe you called vnto If the Quenes Highnes of her special fauour towardes you haue geuen you the rentes of the Bishoprike of Sarisburie you are the more bounde to thanke her and to consider what accompte you haue to make of it It is not money that can set you one steppe higher in ecclesiastical degree A Bishop you are not I am right sure neither can al the Kinges and Quenes of the worlde nor al the Parlamentes of England by any their owne onely power and auctoritie make you a lawful and a true Bishop The same I tolde you in my Confutation of your Apologie whiche point you haue not sufficiently answered as it shal appeare Yet was it very behoofful for you to haue fully answered But I beare with you as therein not lacking good wil but habilitie Study for it so long as you wil you shal neuer be hable to make it good that you are yet a right Bishop Therefore in this respecte you ought to beare with my bolde vtterance the more taking you for no greater man in right then you were when you subscribed in Oxford to the Real Presence to the Sacrifice of the Masse and to those other pointes that now you impugne so busily In very deede this muche I confesse that in case you were a Bishop though an vnworthy Bishop yea a wicked Bishop yet for the dignitie of that Vocation and for the Orders sake I should and would reuerence you accordingly Act. 23. Whereas it was tolde S. Paule after he had reuiled Ananias that he was the high Bishop he reuoked his worde and submitted him selfe to that was written Thou shalt not curse the gouernour of thy people Exod. 22. Whereby he doth vs to vnderstande that had he knowen he had benne no Bishop at al he woulde not haue reuoked his worde that in your opinion is vnciuile and vncourteous but haue let it stand in force You being as il a man as euer Ananias was and hauing done muche more spite vnto the Churche of Christe and more dishonour vnto God then euer he did beare with me for speaking truly and ernestly without flatterie Act. 23. The example of S. Paule saying to Ananias Thou painted wal not knowing him to be the high Bishop and yet occupying a more honorable roome then you are yet called vnto leadeth me not greatly to repent of any of those wordes spoken of you or of your felowes the Sacramentaries and Protestantes of our time whiche to impaire my credite you haue culled out of my Bookes and laid together in one heape And what so euer I haue written or said that toucheth your person specially and irketh you I take God to record therein I respected not M. Iewel the priuate man but M. Iewel the publique enemie of Christes Churche the professed Impugner of the Truth and Catholique Religion
benne commended most for the spirite of meekenes the same thowgh toward other offenders haue shewed them selues like milde Moyses yet hauing to do with Heretikes commonly haue demeaned them selues like earnest Elias If lyers should be entreated in like sorte as true reporters slaunderers and backebyters as faithful frendes heretikes as catholikes Apostates as stedfast Christians blasphemers as saintes truth should be iniured wickednes flattered vertue misprised Of whom the truth was impugned or resisted with malice them litle spared either the Prophetes or the Apostles or Christ him selfe Thus may al this matter for which M. Iewel hath made so much adoo seme to haue benne sufficiently answered before Neither with more truth hath he alleaged that other saying of myne which standing by it selfe alone as he hath placed it in his booke immediatly after the former falsified saying geueth out a colourable shew as if I condemned my selfe Thus he layeth it forth Ievvel Againe in the same Confutation There is no man of vvisedom or honestie that vvould vvith so immoderate vpbraidinges impaire the estimation of his modestie fol. 300. b. Harding But in that saying M. Iewel I rebuke the impudent lyes and slaunders of him that wrote the Apologie who there raileth immoderatly at the Bishops whom the holy Ghost Actâ— 20. as S. Paule saith hath ordeined to gouerne the Church of God saying that neither they knowe nor wil knowe the thinges perteining to their charge nor set a iote by any point of Religion saue that which concernes their belly and riot And there further vncharitably he burdeneth them as if they were so wicked as to commaund Christian Princes to destroy al Religion and to crucifie againe Christe him selfe In my answer to this among other wordes thus I say Confut. 300. b. Put the wordes of this railing Defenders amplification aside and the whole sentence that riseth of al this talke is only this It is not reason Bishops be iudges in matters of faith and not secular Princes Now to geue a colour hereto and to moue Princes to take the matter into their owne handes they say as becommeth them and none els For there is no man of wisedome or honestie that would with so impudent lyes diminish his credite and with so immoderate vpbraidinges impaire the estimation of his modestie Neither be these men so hote in this matter for any loue they beare to secular Princes For if any such Prince be not a fauorer of their Gospel then haue they a Blast of a Trompet to blow him downe as it appeareth by their bookes made against the monstrous regiment of women and by the good obedience their French brethren the Huguenotes kepe toward their king in France Other examples of the like Euangelical obedience in other countries I leaue to mennes remembrance The circumstance of this whole matter considered which may better be seene in my booke I reporte me to the discrete Reader whether any iust cause be ministred to M. Iewel to pike quarel to the wordes by him alleaged specially if they be wholly and truly alleaged But why did he nippe of those foure wordes with so impudent lyes Doth not this discouer his falsehode and shew of whom that saying was meant It semed good to such a lyer to shifte away the mention of Lyes from the Readers eyes that he might not seme charged therewith Thus al his aduantage standeth in falsehode But what shal a man say To require plainenesse and truth of such a Defender of vntruthe were to require him either to vnsay al that he hath said or to say nothing at al. For certaine it is falsehode can neuer be defended by truth Now it remaineth that I require the Reader to conferre the peeces of sentences that M. Iewel hath culled out of my writinges with the whole sentences as they are by me written and with the circumstance of the places whence they be piked out That being done let it be weighed whether I speake ouer bitterly or he be answered according to his deserte For example I thinke it good here to lay two or three before the Reader that so he be admonished to doo the like him selfe for trial and iudgement to be made in the reste Here to lay forth al were to print againe a great parte of my bookes Special vvordes of discourtesie noted by M. Iâ—wel In the first place then M. Iewel hath noted these wordes Your Deuilish spite Reioindre Fol. 18. b. Consider Reader how and vpon what occasion these wordes are there vttered There thou findest thus First he maketh his entrie with a solemne praier protestantlike as if he were about to make a Sermon and his fauorable hearers ready to sing a song Then he accuseth the inflammation of my choler because alluding to the wordes of Daniel I glaunced at the name of the Foreronners of Antichriste therewith rubbing him and his holy companions as it were on their gaulle for the Deuilish spite they shew to the blessed sacrifice of Christe mystically represented and truly continewed in the dayly Sacrifice of the Church now called the Masse Here I said not Your Deuilish spite directing my talke to you M. Iewel but the Deuilish spite they shew to the blessed Sacrifice of Christe speaking indefinitely of the Protestantes and Sacramentaries of our time And why may I not resonably cal their spite against the Sacrifice a Deuilish spite sithence Luther was taught it of the Deuil him selfe by a night coÌ„ference with him as the wil of God was See the Preface before my secoÌ„d Reioindr Fol. 34. b. he should confesse it in open writing him selfe Whereof I speake in my preface before my last Reioindre there setting forth the same famous Disputation betwen the Deuil and Luther out of Luthers own boke The seconde note of bitter wordes that M. Iewel layeth to my charge is this Your Deuilish vvickednes But where found he these three wordes His cotation is this Reioinder Preface to the Reader But what if I haue vttered no such peece of sentence in al that Preface True it is Reader I haue no such saying there in deede If thou wouldst faine saue M. Iewels honestie and trie the truth peruse that whole Preface if thou find it there let it be blowen abrode that he belieth me not in this point though he haue so done in many other If thou finde it not geue vs leaue to say as truth is that for lacke of good matter against the Catholike Doctrine he deuiseth of his owne head slaunderous Lyes against his Aduersarie Whiche is the common practise of them whose cause is naughte And why hath he put this note in the second place O it had ben a fowle crase to his worship being suche a famous Minister of the worde as he is to haue begonne this new deuise with a flatte lye And thereof was he not ignorant And for that cause he placed the other Note before this whereas folowing order he should haue placed this before that For
is newly falsified saie I by nipping of wordes from the sentēce that be of great importance and quite contrarie to that M. Iewel intendeth For the whole Decree hath these wordes Concil Cartag 3. Cap. 47. Placuit vt praeter Scripturas Canonicas nihil in Ecclesia legatur sub nomine diuinarum scripturarum It hath benne thought good that nothing be readde in the Churche vnder the name of the holy Scriptures beside the Canonical Scriptures It foloweth in the same Decree Let it be lawful also for the Martyrdomes of Martyrs to be read when their yerely Feastes are kepte This Vntruthe M. Iewel by no shifte is hable to excuse What he bringeth in his Replie out of the Abbridgement of the Councel of Hippo made in the third Councel of Carthage is to no purpose For though the Abbridgement saie that praeter Scripturas alia non legantur other thinges be not readde in the Churche beside the Scriptures yet how that is to be vnderstanded it is supplied by the Decree of the third Coūcel of Carthage by those wordes sub nomine diuinarum scripturarum So that M. Iewel maie looke to finde no better reliefe in the Councel of Hippo Abbridged then he founde in that Councel of Carthage See my Confutation of the Apologie Fol. 243. a. The. 15. Vntruth The 15. Vntruth of the Apologie which M. Iewel goeth about to make good standeth altogether vpon a point of the Canon lawe in what case the Pope committeth Simonie I alleged summa Angelica He in his Repli◠saith I vnderstande not my Summa Bicause the discussion hereof nequireth a large processe and is not very necessarie in it selfe nor perteineth specially to our profession I leaue it to M. Iewelles great lawier to treate of it to the most aduantage if he haue so muche leisure as to thinke hereof being him selfe muche encombred poore man with matters of the law about his two wiues not being yet determined whiche of them he maie kepe stil whiche he maie turne awaie Ye should do wel to amend that disorder M. Iewel Touching the. 16. Vntruth The. 16. Vntruth I neede to saie litle It pleased M Iewel of his owne humilitie to acknowledge an errour whiche I laid not vnto his charge Certainely whiles he goeth about to trie him selfe a true man he ladeth him selfe with a more huge burden of Vntruthes and maketh al menne that wil lose their time in reading his bookes witnesses how when falsehed is attempted to be defended lying and falsehed is farther multiplied By experience of M. Iewels writinges this muche I finde VVhat it is to confute M. Ievvels vvritinges that to confute him is no more but to saie where he saith ought of his owne that either al is false or light scoffing stuffe or otherwise vaine where he bringeth the sayinges of other menne wherewith in manner only his bookes be farced that either muche is true but impertinent nor by the Catholiques denied the reste false as alleged out of Heretiques or at lest in some parte aduersaries vnto the vnitie of the Churche as Bale Illyricus Iacobus Andreae Sleidan Cassander Lorichius and suche others or by M. Iewels common sleightes falsified and corrupted and wrested to an vndue sense or otherwise not very material vnprofitable and not worth the answering This shal he finde to be most true who soeuer wil examine the thinges he setteth forth as I haue If he mingled some true discourses with his other vntrue extrauagantes as other Heretikes cōmonly haue done our labour of answering should be lesse Now his vntruthes and impudent Lies be so many that to confute al it were labour bothe infinite to the writer and vnprofitable to the reader Towardes the ende of the View of his Vntruthes at last in a great brauerie he concludeth with the wordes of S. Paule tanquà m seductores ecce veraces 2. Cor. 6. We are saith he called Deceiuers and yet we saie the truth But how truly this boaste is made the Defence of these fewe his Vntruthes by me now answered doth sufficiently witnesse How be it here at length the man remembring him selfe better In the Defence B. iij. a. b. beginneth to take some conscience of the matter and protesteth that he wil not so warrant euery parcel of any his writing as though there were nothing therein conteined that might safely be iustified in al respectes What is that then wherein he acknowlegeth him selfe to haue done vntruly Let vs see how muche and how great it is for by that we shal take a View of his sinceritie and of his humilitie O saith he The errours that M. Ievvel maie be induced to acknovvledge in him selfe If I haue at any time marke this if I haue Reader for neither this muche wil he confesse simply mistaken Authour for Authour or name for name or Chapter for Chapter or booke for booke or any one Father or Doctour for an other suche erroures were neuer hitherto accompted damnable Yea the best learned haue oftentimes fallen into them Doest thou not see reader what great errours and ouersightes this man with his If confesseth to be in his writing As though we found that onely faulte in him whiche maie happen to any writer by ouersight be he neuer so diligent and not other great Vntruthes corruptions falsifyinges lyes and sclaunders that by no colour can be excused What many of them be hereafter thou shalt see in this processe August in Psal 33. Cōcione 1. The great faultes that M. Ievvel findeth in my bookes Now to requitte me he laieth certaine great crimes to my charge As that in alleging this saying of S. Augustine Christus ferebatur in manibus suis I leafte out as he saith this worde quodammodo That in an allegation I name Iosue for Osee that there is founde in the margent of my booke where Socrates is alleged lib. 8. whiche faulte was the printers whereas Socrates neuer wrote but 7. bookes Item that in the margent the printer hath put Luc. 2. for Luc. 22. and in the texte 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with whiche ouersightes I maie reasonably and truly charge the Printers Compositours and discharge my selfe for at al times I attende not vpon the printe my selfe and though I had yet suche smal faultes might wel haue escaped me though I had as many eyes as the poetes feine of Argus So of myne owne accorde I confesse whereat M. Iewel maketh no litle adoo as thoughe it were a hainous offence that where I speake of Henrie the fourth Emperour and his sonne Henrie the fifth the compositour by ouersight and negligence hath sette for Henrie the sonne against Henrie the fourth Henrie the seconde against Henrie the fourth For in that place See the Defence pag. 418. See the Confutat fol. 187. b. M. Ievvel in the Vievv of Vntruthes B. 3. b whereas M. Iewel demaundeth this question Who put in armes the Sonne against the Emperour his Father Henrie the fourh I answer in
iudgement and minde touching obedience to princes and that in a booke dedicated and offred to be read euen of the Quenes Maiestie her selfe Confut. 15. a. Among other thinges thus I saie in my Confutation of the Apologie It standeth not with Goddes promises made to the Church touching his being with the Church al daies to the worldes ende and the holy Ghostes remaining with it Math. 28. Iohan. 14. the spirite of Truthe for euer that he should suffer his Churche to continewe in Darkenes and lacke of Truthe these thousand yeres past and now at the later daies to reuele the truthe of his Gospel by Apostates Vowebreakers Churcherobbers and suche others most vnlike to the Apostles Hereunto thus answereth M. Iewel Iewel pag. 32. You saie it standeth not vvith Gods promise to forsake his Churche a thousand yeres It is muche for you M. Harding openly to breake Gods cōmaundementes to defile his holy Sanctuarie to turne light into Darckenesse and Darckenesse into light and yet neuerthelesse to binde him too his promise Harding Goddes promise being infallible the Churche neuer erreth Se◠good Reader The. 7. Chapt. how absurdely and wretchedly M. Iewel answereth to this most euident and inuincible argument taken out of holy scripture I reason thus God promiseth he wil neuer Math. 28. no not one daie forsake his Churche Ergo if he forsooke it a thousand yeres as these menne tel vs he broke his promise M. Iewel answereth by a lewde kinde of Sophistrie called Petitio principij Petitio Principij that is the bringing forthe for proufe the thing it selfe whiche he ought to proue and whiche chiefely lieth in question and whiche wil neuer be graunted bicause it can neuer be proued That thing I saie he bringeth forth for a proufe and procedeth thereupon as vpon a matter vndoubted and graunted You M. Harding saith he haue broken Gods commaundementes you haue defiled his holy Sanctuarie c. Ergo you ought not to binde God to his promise This Antecedent or former proposition is the thing whiche he shoulde specially haue proued and then in Gods name he might thereof haue cōcluded what he coulde Now to bring it for proufe it selfe in respecte of true doctrine being most in question and vtterly denied by vs it is a lewde kinde of reasoning Againe beholde good Reader how he ouerturneth the Argument taken out of Gods worde I reason thus God hath promised his Churche should neuer erre Ergo it hath not erred these thousand yeres past he answereth The Church by our defaulte hath erred For we saith he haue turned light into Darckenesse c. Ergo God was not bounde to his promise What meane you M. Iewel As though God promising that his Churche should not erre prouided not also suche meanes whereby to preserue it from errour As though Gods promise depended of vs and of our wel doing As though any power of man or the worlde were hable to frustrate Gods promise As though if any suche power should haue come as you imagine the Popes power to haue darckened Christes Gospel Christe could not or would not haue foresene it or foreseing it would yet notwithstanding promise that Al daies he would be with his Churche Math. 28. Esaie 59. Iohn 14. and againe that the spirite of Truthe should assiste it for euer Thinke you M. Iewel that Christe our Sauiour forsawe not the Ruine or Darckenesse of his Churche of whiche so blasphemously you affirme Or thinke you that foreseing such an vniuersal Darckenesse to come and that for the space of so many hundred yeres together he would neuerthelesse haue said The Churches errour of a thousand yeres and the foreknovvledge of Christ can not stand together onlesse vve make Christe false of his promise as he said and haue so assuredly promised vnto his Apostles and in them vnto their Successours the perpetual assistance of the holy Ghoste the spirite of truthe with his Churche How could suche foreknowledge of Christe and suche a promise stand together Choose M. Iewel which you wil. The one of these you must of necessitie graunte that either Christe forsawe not the great Darckenesse to come whiche you saie you doo see and so you see more then Christe God and man euer sawe or foresawe or that Christe promised one thing and intended to performe an other thing He promised Al daies and for euer but intended to performe only fiue hundred yeres at the beginning and after the leape of a thousand yeres to graunte certaine yeres moe God knoweth how many O haynous blasphemie whereby Christe the Sonne of God the wisdome of his Father is proued either to haue ben ignorant of that whiche Protestantes knowe or elles to haue ben false of his promise But what neede many wordes M. Iewel him selfe immediatly after his former wordes to his owne condemnation saith Al menne be liers but God only is true Psal 50. 2. Tim. 2. and preuaileth when he is iudged God knoweth his owne Christe wil be euermore with his Churche That the light of truth hath not ben put out in the Churche yea although the whole Churche of Rome conspire against him Al this is true and the same doth euidently condemne you and your Religion Al menne be liers Protestantes for example whiche saie that these thousand yeres the Church hath ben corrupted and light hath ben turned into Darknesse God only is true Christes worde is true the Light of faith hath not benne turned into Darckenesse these thousand yeres nor any one yere at al onlesse Darckenesse and the Spirite of truth maie dwel together God knoweth his owne The Churche is his therefore he knoweth his Churche And bicause it is built vpon a hil it is euer sene and is neuer vnknowen Math. 5. Math. vlt. Christe wil be euermore with his Churche But with your Congregation or Synagog how shal I cal it he hath not ben these many hundred yeres for you saie in your Apologie The Pope hath blinded the whole worlde many hundred yeres and in this your Defence you saie againe that when Doctour Luther beganne to Publish the Gospel of Christe there was a general quietnesse suche as is in the night when folke be a sleepe c. Ergo your companie is not the Churche Let vs see vvhat you can ansvver to this argumēt M. Ievv Marke the Argument I require you and auoide it if you be hable To repete it once againe thus we saie Christe promiseth euermore to be with his Churche but Christe hath not ben euer more with you and your fellowes Ergo you and your fellowes are not the Churche The maior is true not only bicause it is Christes promise but also by your owne Confession The minor you confesse also in your Apologie it resteth ye discharge your selfe of the Conclusion Touching the minor the Pope you saie blinded the whole worlde many hundred yeres Then in those so many hundred yeres no man saw the light where then were they
of your secte of whom you saie they see suche a light as vnder the Pope the worlde sawe not Of this it foloweth that the time then was in whiche Christe was not with you And so euery waie if Christes worde be true yours must be false M. Ievvel obiecteth agaiÌ„st the Churche as the old heretikes the Donatistes did But marke wel gentle Reader that whiche I wil now declare vnto thee M. Iewels obiectioÌ„ against the Church is the very olde obiection of the Donatistes For as M. Iewel saith here that it were to muche for vs hauing broken Gods commaundement c. yet neuerthelesse to binde Christe to his promise whiche was that his Church should continewe for euer and haue the Spirite of Truthe alwaies remaining in it So the Donatistes said ideo ex partibus terrarum August lib. 1. ca. 2 contra Epistol Parmen in quibus iam impletum erat perijsse Abraha semen quod est Christus euacuatas promissiones Dei quia ipsi non sunt admissi ad eorum communionem apud quos hoc iam retinebat orbis impletum That therefore the seede of AbrahaÌ„ that is Christ had perished froÌ„ out of other partes of the world where it had ben already fulfilled and therfore the promises of God touching the continuance of Christ with his Church to the worldes ende were made voide bicause they the Donatistes were not admitted to the Communion of those Christians in Fraunce Italie Spaine and other Christian Countries among whom the worlde kepte this promise of Christe already fulfilled They said the promise of Christes continuance was broken bicause al the other partes of the worlde besides and out of Africa communicated with Cecilianus and his successours whom they accused for * Traditores Deliuerers vp of the Scriptures in time of persecution and therefore accompted them for no parte of Christes Churche and refused to communicate with them euen as M. Iewel saith here that for our euil doinges Christe was not bound to his promise This obiection of the Donatistes seemed to a learned man of their owne secte Ticonius Ticonius by name vnreasonable and insufficient And therefore he wrote a booke of that matter to wit that the promises of God in the Scriptures for the continuance of his Churche vniuersally spred through the worlde could not possibly be broken through any wickednes of man or menne what soeuer This to be so S. Augustine witnesseth saying August li. 1. contra epist parmen ca. 1. Ticonius homo quidem acri ingenio praeditus vberi eloquio sed tamen Donatista omnibus sanctarum paginarum vocibus circumtusus euigilauit vidit Ecclesiam Dei toto orbe diffusam sicut de illo tanto antè per corda ora sanctorum praeuisum atque praedictum est Quo percepto suscepit aduersus ipsos suos demonstrare asserere nullius hominis quamuis sceleratum immane peccatum praescribere promissis Dei nec id agere quorumlibet intra Ecclesiam coÌ„stitutoruÌ„ quamlibet impietatem vt fides Dei de Ecclesiasâ—tura diffundenda vsque ad terminos orbis terra quae in promissis patruÌ„ retenta nunc exhibita est euacuaretur Ticonius a man endewed with a sharpe wit and with tongue at wil but yet a Donatist knockt vp on euery side with al the sayinges of the Bible waked out of slepe and saw the Church of God spred ouer al the worlde as thereof so loÌ„g time before by the hartes and by the mouthes of Saintes it was foresene and foretolde Which thing hauing perceiued he toke in hand against them of his own fide euideÌ„tly to shew and affirme that no mannes sinne being neuer so wicked and passing great doth prescribe against the promises of God and that no manner impietie of any what soeuer that be placed in the Church doth bring this to passe that the promise of God shuld be made void touching the Churche to come and to be spred abrode vnto the borders of the round world which promise was coÌ„tinued in the promises made to the Fathers of the old testameÌ„t and is now come to perfourmance Thus then wrote Ticonius the Donatiste being forced thereto by the very cleare euidence of holy Scripture Parmenianus an other Donatist foreseing as S. Augustin writeth that if the persuasion of Ticonius toke place then he and his felowes which did not coÌ„municate with the whole corps of Christendom should be no part of al the Catholik Church Dioscorde betvven the Gospellers as in olde time among the Donatistes so vniuersally dispersed and so being out of the Church should stand for Heretiques wrote first an epistle against this Ticonius and when that would not suffise procured him to be openly condeÌ„ned in a CouÌ„cel of their owne sect Euen as at this day the Lutherans write against the Sacramentaries as Westphalus against Caluine Brentius against Bullinger Illyricus against Beza Peter Martyr against BreÌ„tius Heshusius against Boquine condemning one the other al being protestants or rather as they wil be named Gospellers Against the foresaid Epistle of Parmenianus written as I said against Ticonius S. Augustin wrote three bookes learnedly defending the Scriptures alleged by Ticonius to proue that no impietie of men what soeuer and how great soeuer it were can possibly be hable to driue Christ to breache of his promise concerning the perpetuitie of his Churche in many Nations and the assistence of the holy Ghost therein You therefore M. Iewel that thinke it much for vs to claime by the promise of Christe bicause by our wretchednes he should no more be bound to his promise The Donatistes Heresie renevved by M. Ievvel do plainely renewe the wicked and detestable opinion of the Donatist Parmenian whom S. Augustine so largely confuteth I remitte the learned to the said worke of S. Augustine specially to the second booke The vnlearned I remitte to a late writteÌ„ Treatise intituled The Fortresse The Fortresse annexed to the historie of Venerable Bede translated into Englishe where he shal finde suche scriptures as proue an vniuersal and knowen continuance of Christes Churche largely laied forth and prosecuted out of the Psalmes the Prophetes and the new testament To be short therefore An Argument prouing this nevv Congregation not to be the true Churche of Christ I frame you once againe this argumeÌ„t The true Church of Christ is such a multitude as hath had euermore in al ages and times Christe present and the Spirit of truth remaining with it Your Congregation is such as was not extant in the earth many hundred yeres together before Luther was borne and therefore can not be said to haue had that presence of Christ Ergo your Congregation is not the true Church of Christ The Maior is euident by Christes owne promise and by your owne Confession The Minor you confesse also both in your Apologie and in this pretensed Defence as I said before The Conclusion therefore remaineth
vndoubted To this one argument M. Iewel you shal neuer be hable to answere truely and directly You adde yet farther Christe wil be euermore with his Churche yea though the whole Churche of Rome conspire against him It is true M. Iewel And therefore this being a matter impossible that the whole Churche of Rome should be hable to deface Christes Gospel or to defeate Christ of his promise it must needes folow that where you say the Pope hath blinded the whole worlde you haue said most vntruly and haue auouched that thing which by your owne confession in this place was not possible to be done Againe seing that though the whole Churche of Rome conspired against Christe yet Christe wil be euermore with his Churche and these many hundred yeres Christ hath had no other Churche then the Churche of Rome for the Pope you say hath blinded the whole worlde and D. Luther began to publish the Gospel a general darkenesse going before it must needes folowe that the same Church of Rome was the true Church of Christ that the said Church neuer coÌ„spired against Christ that the Pope neuer blinded nor was euer hable to blinde the whole worlde briefely that the same whiche you cal blindnesse was good sight and that which you cal darkenesse was cleare light Verely either so must it be or Christes promise must faile Of the which promise of Christ and of a number of other sayinges in the Psalmes in the Prophetes and in the Gospel affirming and confirming the same it hath ben largely and sufficiently treated in the foresaid Treatise intituled The Fortresse of our first Faith annexed to the Historie of venerable Bede of late translated into Englishe If you M. Iewel or any of your fellowes wil auoide this argument that proueth a knowen continuance of Christes Church answer to the first parte of that booke If you can not auoide that one Argument your newe doctrine is plainely proued to be false and heretical and the Faith of our Forefathers is plainely proued to be the Faith of the true and onely Catholike Churche of Christe in earth You pretende as if ye had aduantage for that I spake but of a thousand yeres For thus you inferre Iewel ibidem Pag. 32. But vvhy do you so much abate your reckening VVhy make you not vp your ful accompte of fifteene hundred three skore and sixe yeres as ye vvere vvont to doo Ye haue here liberally and of your selfe quite striken of fiue hundred three skore and sixe yeres Harding That we haue not striken of the first fiue hundred yeres as M. Iewel cauilleth You say vntruly M. Iewel The. 8. Chapt. I haue not striken of the first fiue hundred yeres c. But I and others doo God be praised defende and mainteine the Catholique Faithe no lesse by the Doctours and witnesses of the first fiue hundred yeres then by the Doctours and Witnesses of these last thousand yeres Yea Sir it is wel knowen to them that haue perused bothe our labours that you allege moe writers of these later ages by ten to one then either we doo of the same or your selfe doo of the first fiue hundred yeres It is wel knowen our writinges are confirmed with the authoritie of the Fathers of the firste fiue hundred yeres We allege very seldome the writers of these later ages condescending herein to your infirmities whiche through weakenes of Faith doo reiecte these later Fathers as too yonge and require to be persuaded onely by the Doctours and Councelles of the first sixe hundred yeres And herein we doo willingly omitte the greate aduantage whiche we might haue if we should presse you with the Writers of these later ages This is wel knowen M. Iewel to al that knowe any thing in matters of these common controuersies We haue Gods holy name be blessed largely and aboundantly prooued the Reall Presence the Sacrifice of the Masse the Popes Primacie the vse of Images the Confession of sinnes to the Prieste the Inuocation of Saintes the Praying for the dead the Churche seruice in the two learned tongues Greeke and Latine and such other matters by you nowe brought into Controuersie we haue sufficiently prooued them I saye by the Doctours and Councels of the first sixe hundred yeres wittingly and willingly a very fewe places excepted absteining from the Writers of these last thousand yeres not bicause we refuse them or contemne them but bicause ye refuse them that we might seeme to vse the better meanes to persuade you whose couersion we seeke and labour for You say therefore vntruly that I haue liberally of my selfe quite striken of fiue hundred yeres c. The cause why I named but these last thousand yeres your selfe I am sure are not ignorant of But so it liked you to dallye and to answer a most earnest and important question with trifling toyes cauilles and wranglinges It was your exception M. Iewel and prescription of the first sixe hundred yeres It was your lewde contempte of these later ages It was your blasphemous assertion condemning the Churche of Christe so many hundred yeres of Idolatrie superstition and palpable darckenes which made me to chalenge you with Christes promise for the Continuance of his Churche these last thousand yeres If you denie this to be your opinion of the last thousand yeres beside your prescription insinuating no lesse of the nine hundred beside your former wordes of Luthers first publishing of the Gospel for so you terme your wicked Heresies your owne wordes in this place doo signifie no lesse For thus you saie euen in this page Iewel Verely in the iudgement of the Godly fiue hundred of those first yeres are more vvorthe then the vvhole thousand yeres that folovved aftervvarde Harding This comparison is odious The commendatioÌ„ of the first fiue hundred yeres in comparison of the later ages and litle becommeth a ChristiaÌ„ maÌ„ If you speake of learning and vertue though the comparison be odious yet is it more tolerable For learning and vertue may seeme to haue excelled more in those former ages then in these later specially vertue and holines of life when as the bloude that Chriâ—â— shed for redemption of the worlde seemed to mennâ—â— hartes yet fresh and warme as in a place S. Augustine writeth And therefore those tymes brought foorth moe Martyrs As touching learning it muste also be confessed that moe Doctours in both tongues then excelled The north partes of the world coÌ„uerted in these later ages This without preiudice to the learned Bishoppes and Godly people of Christendom in so longe a time afterwarde might perhappes to the commendation of Antiquitie be graunted Howbeit it is not vnknowen to the learned that in these later thousand yeres the Northe partes of the worlde being many large and sauage Countries haue benne brought to the faith of Christe many Bishoppes and Monkes of excellent learning and of great perfection of life haue flourished many Martyrs also haue suffred as al histories and Chronographies doo
the reprehension of my vehement speache doo fal into the selfe same Vehemencie Whose wordes are these M. Iewel M. Ievv blameth my vehemencie of speache him selfe being also no lesse vehement Pag. 94. Beholde your owne wordes so many so vaine so bitter so firie so furious al together in one place Are not these your owne wordes Are not these as vehemeÌ„t as you could deuise Wil you finde faulte with me for that you vse your selfe If vehement speache be to be vsed when the matter requireth why blame you me If not why doo you so often vse it Whether you and Luther doo vse it iustly for the zeale of Goddes glorie aske that of them that wrote the Confession of the Churche of Zurich Your owne frendes the Ministers of that congregation doo set forth Luther for his outragious and filthy railing against them in his colours and speake of him as of a very vile felow and paie him home againe with as good as he brought Reade the booke and ye shal finde it to be true Howbeit I could sende you to many other bookes of your brethren fraught with muche more vile stuffe of railing then that litle booke conteineth with al whiche you are better acquainted then I am The Confutation of the Apologie The seconde parte the 2. Chapter Confut fo 44. b Againe the name of Head is attributed to Christe aâ— other waie bicause Christe is head of the Churche by his owne power and authoritie Menne be called heades in as muche as they be in steede of Christ and vnder Christ after whiche meaning S. Paule saith to the Corinthians for if I forgaue any thing to whom I forgaue it 2. Cor. 2. for your sakes forgaue I it in persona Christi in the person of Christe And in an other place 2. Cor. 5. We are Ambassadours in the steede of Christe euen as though God did exhorte you through vs. To conclude in few 〈◊〉 vvhat sense Christe is named the Head of the Churche and in vvhat sense the Pope is so named according to inwarde influence of grace into euery faithful member Christe onely is the head of the Churche according to outward gouerning the Pope vnder Christ and in steede of Christ is head of the same Iewel Pag. 94. To the matter ye saie that touching the influence of grace Christe onely is the head of the Churche but touching direction and gouernemeÌ„t the Pope only as the head Al this is but your ovvne tale M. Harding ye speake it onely of your selfe other authoritie of Scripture or Doctour you bringe vs none Harding Dogge eloquence proued no vnwoonted terme and how the Pope is Head of the Churche To the mater ye saie And truly wel said of you The .7 Chapt For hitherto you haue not directed your talke to the mater but to the person of your Aduersarie with whom you shew your selfe greuously offended for calling the Currish and snarling vtterance of Luther Dogge eloquence And whereas you would faine draw the same to the preiudice of my modestie I trust you that are so great a Rhetorician and so wel seene in poetes Fables wil iudge so muche the better of me for so muche as Quintilian that modeste and graue Oratour and Ouide also no Poete Satyrical thought suche phrase of speache not vnmeete for the countenance of modestie and humanitie that they bare in the worlde For if you remember Canina Eloquentia QuintiliaÌ„ lib. 12. c. 9 Ouid. in Ibin is Quintilians worde calle it dogge eloquence dogged eloqueÌ„ce or dogges eloquence or how soeuer otherwise it please you to terme it And Ouid saith Latrâ—◠〈◊〉 in toro verba canina foro If for the vse of this auncient terme I seeme to passe the boundes of modestie specially attributing it vnto Luther whose heretical and Deuilish vtterance is coÌ„monly in deede farre worse then the barking of any Dogge or the hissing of any Serpent what wil you saie of the Scolding of your hote brother M. Calfhil But now that after muche idle and impertinent talke you are come to the mater what saie you that is worth the hearing M. Iewels foule falsifying of my vvordes Thus you saie Ye saie that touching the influence of Grace Christe onely is the Head of the Churche I graunt I say so in deede Go ye forth and make no lye but touching direction and gouernement the Pope only is the Head Yea sir Where saie I so You should haue caused your printer to haue falsified that senteÌ„ce of mine that at your owne pleasure the simplest of your owne poore Fauourers who take al for the Gospel that you saie or write might not in your owne booke espie your shamelesse lying For euen there notwithstanding your coÌ„mon falsifyinges other where 's and also there they maie finde my saying otherwise reported It is an euident argument that myne owne wordes were to true for you to confute sith that you thought it necessarie least you should seme ouercome to alter and change them for other wordes of your own which being false to the vnlearned reader I might seeme to speake fondly and besides al truth For how is it likely I should saie that touching Direction and gouernement the Pope only is the Head Your fetche was to bring your vnlearned fauourers by whom you are magnified to beleeue that from the Direction and gouernement of the Church I excluded Christe and the holy Ghoste the spirite of truth Which God forbid I should doo Now the true wordes of my Confutation in this place are these Defence Pag. 92. whiche the Reader maie see also in the booke of your Defence although very much mangled and falsified of set purpose to thintent the force of truth by me opened should not be seene as by view of my booke it maie clearely appeare Where thus I saie For Head and Spouse alone he is of his kingdom in one respecte not alone in an other respect * Confut. fol. 44. a. left out by M. Ie. For a cleare declaration whereof it is to be vnderstanded that being of a Head maie be considered after two waies The being of a Head considered tvvo vvaies either according to the inward influence so as the vertue and power of mouing and of sense is deriued from the head vnto the other members or according to outward gouernment right so as a man is directed in his outward actes according to the sight and other senses AccordiÌ„g to it ward influence of grace Christe onely is Head of the Churche In respect of outvvard gouernement the name of Head is attributed to others beside Christe which haue their roote in the head Now the inwarde influence of grace is not of any other but of Christe only Bicause Christes manhood onely hath power to iustifie for that the same only is ioyned personally to the Godhead * According to this inward influence of Grace Christ properly and only is Head of his mystical body the Church But as touching
the outward gouernment the being of a Head is common to Christe with others For in this respecte certaine others maie be called Headdes of the Church as in Amos the prophete the great states be called the Heades of the people So the Scripture speaketh of King Saul When thou were a litle one in thine owne eyes thou wast made Head emong the tribes of Israel So Dauid saith of him selfe he hath made me Head of Nations Amos. 6. 1. Reg. 15. Psal 17. Headship in respect of gouernement diuers in Christ and in menne * Left out by M. Ievvel In this sense the name of Head is attributed to princes and gouernours And yet not altogether so as to Christ First forasmuche as Christe is Head of al those that perteine to the Churche according to euery place euery time and euery state But menne are called Heades in regard of certaine special places as Bishoppes be called heades of their Churches Or in respect of a determinat time as the Pope is Head of the whole Church during the time of that calling And according to a determinate state euen so as menne be in the state of this mortal life for further stretcheth not this humanie Headship Againe the name of Head is attributed to Christe an other waie bicause Christe is Head of the Churche by his owne power and authoritie * Menne be called Headdes in asmuch as they be in steed of Christe and vnder Christe after whiche meaning S. Paule saith to the Corinthians 2. Cor. 2. For if I forgaue any thing to whom I forgaue it for your sakes forgaue I it in persona Christi in the person of Christe and in an other place we are Ambassadours in the steede of Christe 2. Cor. 5. euen as though God did exhorte you through vs. To conclude in fewe according to inward influence of grace into euery faithful member Christe onely is Head of the Churche according to outward gouerning the Pope vnder Christe and in steede of Christe is Head of the same These be my wordes there M. Iewel To whiche bicause you had nothing to saie you answer by your accustomed arte of mangling hewing awaie what liked you not by falsifying them and by putting in your owne selfe wordes in place of myne that teache the truthe And at length you fal to skoffing at my Logique making fonde and peeuish Argumentes of your owne forging bearing the simple reader in hande they are mine whiche God knoweth I neuer made nor no wise man elles For they are suche as of al that peruse your writinges you maie be knowen by them as a Begger is by his patched cloke or rather as a Vise is knowen by his Babul The greatest thing you saie is that al is myne owne tale that I tel and that I bring in no Scripture nor Doctour To this I answere Were it true that you saie as my Booke it selfe prooueth it false yet in this case my Yea hytherto is as good as your Nay and better too bicause it standeth with the vniforme Doctrine of the Churche Be it I allege no Authoritie of Scripture or Doctour to prooue the Pope Head bicause I am not yet comme to the place where I minde to prooue it Yet my case standeth as good as youres that bring neither Scripture nor Doctour to the contrarie If it had pleased you ye might haue founde bothe Doctours and Scriptures more The Rock of the Churche then you would gladly heare of in M. D. Sanders booke entitled the Rocke of the Church written for that behalfe and in M. Sapletons Returne written against your so many grosse Vntruthes and errours The Returne of Vntruths You crake muche of your great skil in Logique in comparison of other mennes ignorance searche out I praie you emong your rules of Logique whether Distinctio multiplicis in quaestione positi the Distinction of a worde that hath diuers significations placed in a controuersie ought not to goe before the disputation of the controuersie If it ought then haue I done rightly and orderly in that I made a Distinction of the terme Head before I entred to proue the Pope to be Head and you ignorantly and disorderly in calling vppon me to doo two thinges together against al good order of nature reason and learning or to doo the later before I had ended the former Testimonies auouching the Pope to be head of the Churche Peter the chiefe mēber of the Churche Gregor li. 4. epis 38. Now bicause you be so hasty to haue some Doctour to proue that the Pope is Head somewhat to satisfie your hasty humour the Authoritie of S. Gregorie afterwarde alleged by your selfe maie suffice any wise man who calleth S. Peter the chiefe member of the Church which the Pope succeding in that right of Peter is al one with that we saie the Pope is Head in gouernment vnder Christe What difference I praie you can your wisedome put betwixte the chiefe member and a Head vnder an other or in the steede of an other Chrysost in Matth. homil 55. It is your happe alwaie to allege Doctours to your owne Confusion S. Chrysostome also witnesseth that Peter was such a Head saying of him Ecclesia Pastor Caput Piscator homo The fisherman by whom he meaneth Peter is the shepehearde and head of the Churche Againe he saith in an other place Quod si quis percontaretur Chrysost in Ioan. Hom. 87. quo modo Iacobus Sedem Hierosolymis acceperit responderem hunc totius orbis magistrum praeposuisse In case any man would demaunde of me this question how Iames came to haue the See at Ierusalem I would answere him that this Peter the Maister of the whole worlde made him Bishop there Lo Peter Maister of the vvhole vvorlde he calleth Peter the Maister of the whole worlde by whiche worde what elles signifieth he but that he was the Head touching spiritual gouernment of the whole worlde He saith furthermore and that most plainely in an other place Ieremiam Genti vni pater Chrysost Hom. 55. in Matth. hunc autem vniuerso terrarum orbi praeposuit God the Father made Ieremie the Head and Gouernour ouer one nation onely that was the nation of the Iewes but as for this man Peter made hed of the vvhole vvorlde by Christ to wit Peter Christe made him Head and Gouernour ouer the whole worlde Are you contented now Verely I haue folowed your minde willingly And if ye require mo the like testimonies of me I remitte you to the Answer Ansvver I made vnto your Chalenge Art 4. fol. 9. b. c. where you shal finde that maie satisfie any learned man touching this pointe Neither are you hable to auoide the plaine force of those testimonies for al the great a doo you haue made in your huge Replie Iewel Pag. 94. Ye saie S. Paule saith If I forgaue any thing for your sakes 2. Cor. 2. I forgaue it in the personne
morbum in ipso capite componit Ecclesiae in ipso vertice componit membrorum omnium sanitatem in Petroscilicet illo qui dixerat etiam si oportuerit me mori tecum non te negabo He cureth the sickenes of the whole body in Peter the very head it selfe of the Churche and in the very crowne of the head it selfe he setteth in order the health of al the members I meane in the selfe same Peter that had said Although I were driuen to die with thee Mat. 26. I wil neuer denie thee Iewel And the very Ordinarie Glose geueth these vvordes to S. Paule Non didici ab aliis tanquam à maioribus sed contuli cum illis Gloss Galat 2. tanquam cum amicis paribus I learned not of Peter and others as of my betters but I had conference with them as with my Equalles and frendes Harding Difference betwen learning and conferring together Had M. Iewel learnedly considered the difference The 24. Chapt. that is bewixt learning and conferring he would neuer for very shame haue alleged thâ—s place of the Ordinarie Glose In learning the teacher is of greater dignitie In conferring what soeuer the personnes otherwise are either of one dignitie or of diuers as touching the act of conference they make them selues equal as doth the King with his Counsel when they laie their heades together to boult out one mater Yet no man maie thereof reason that there is no difference of state betwixte the King and them of his Counsel or that euery of the Counsel is of equal state one with an other What neede S. Paule had of S. Peter to haue matters decided by his authoritie Actâ— 15. it appeareth in the Actes of the Apostles when he with Barnabas and others were sent from Antioche to Hierusalem to know whether the Gentiles were bounde to be circumcised But M. Iewels happe is alwaies to fal vpon places that bringe him smal worship or aduantage of his cause The Apologie Part. 2. Cap 3. Diui. 4. pag. 107. It vvas said indifferently to them al feede ye c. Confutation Wee denie that it was said indifferently to them al Feede ye Iohan. 21. yea or that it was said at al Feede ye To Peter and none elles was it said Feede my lambes Feede my sheepe .. Which worde of Feeding so singularly spoken to Peter in the presence of the other Apostles proueth that it was not indifferently said to al Feede ye Iewel Pag. 107. It forceth not greatly vvhat M. Hardinge denie or graunte hauing neither reason nor autoritie but onely his ovvne But if povver vvere not geuen indifferently to al the Apostles tel vs then vvherein is the â—ddes VVhat had Peter more VVhat had the others lesse Or vvhat olde Doctour or learned Father euer savv this difference Harding M. Iewel is tolde where he maie finde his demaundes answered and are also here answered in parte Though we tel you this The 25. Chapt. and proue it neuer so plainely yet stil wil you wrangle The Fathers haue infinite places for Peters preeminence aboue the rest as I haue partely here but more largely in my Answer Ansvver to your Chalenge shewed Article 4. Yea the selfe same places of the Fathers that you allege to proue the contrarie apparently within few lines after doo vtterly and in plaine wordes so refute you as your selfe knowe that for very shame you durst not to allege any whole place of certaine the olde Fathers but Iewishly lefte them circumcised as I haue shewed before in sundry allegations of S. Hierome of S. Chrysostome of S. Augustine and of others wherby the Reader hath a viewe and maie conceiue what you haue done in the reste And yet suche is your impudencie as though you walked inuisible and none were hable to detecte your false dealing you cal importunately vpon vs to shewe the oddes and to tel you what authoritie Peter had more then the reste And to declare what olde Father euer sawe any suche difference If it maie please you to reade the fourth Article of my Answere to your Chalenge M.D. Saunders booke entitled the Rocke of the Churche and M. Stapletons Returne of your Vntruthes vpon you in iustificatioÌ„ of Vntruthes which you impute vnto mee there maie you haue moe olde Fathers then ye haue yet or euer shal be hable to make reasonable answer vnto A most plain and euident testimonie of the Popes Primacie ouer al the vvorlde Chrysost homil 1. de poeniteÌ„tia In the meane time tel vs what S. Chrysostome meant when he said thus in his first homilie de poenitentia Ecclesiae primatum gubernationemque Petro per vniuersum mundum Christus tradidit Christ hath deliuered vnto Peter the primacie and gouernment of the Churche through the whole worlde When ye can shewe vs suche a plaine testimonie out of any Father that S. Peter had not the primacie and supreme gouernment deliuered vnto him by Christ you shal seeme to saie somewhat Iewel Pag. 107. 108. Christe saide equally vnto them al. Receiue the holy Ghoste whose sinnes ye forgeue they are forgeuen Goe into the whole worlde Preache the Gospel to euery creature These vvordes perceiue equally vnto al. Peter had no more the holy Ghoste no more povver to forgeeue sinnes no more commission to go into the vvhole vvorlde no more authoritie to preache the Gospel then others had Harding Why are you so copious in bye maters wherein I neuer striued with you and so barrein in the principal mater that lieth in controuersie betwixte vs Equal power was graunted to the Apostles to gather the Church this was neuer denied you But their power was not equal to rule the Church after that it was gathered from euery coaste of the worlde The which point you disproue not Iewel Pag. 108. M. Harding saithe To the Reste of the Apostles it vvas not said at al Iohan. 21. Feede ye To Peter and to none els vvas it said Feede my Lambes Feede my sheepe Yet Christe him selfe saithe Quod vni dico omnibus dico Marc. 13. That I saie to one I saie to al. Harding M. Iewel fouly falsifieth the worde of Christ him selfe What M. Iewel wil ye neuer leaue your falsifying The 26. Chapt. And are ye not a fraide to corrupte the holy Worde of the Sonne of God him selfe Is our cause so good and substantial that ye can make no shewe of truthe a-against it but by foule corruption of the Scripture Where is this written Be ye not a fraide for your aduantage to deceiue the worlde with Scripture of your owne making And were it true that S. Marke had so written how can you wreste it to your purpose Thus it is good Reader Our Sauiour gaue a general warning not onely to the Apostles but to al menne beleeuing in him to be watcheful against our Lordes comming which shal be suddeinely at suche time as they know not and therefore said Vigilate
should chalenge that name vnto him These thinges are at large proued and set forth bothe by me in my Answer Ansvver to your Chalenge Artic. 4. fol. 90. b. Returne Artic. 4. and by M. Stapleton in his Returne of Vntruthes against you M. Iewel where you shal finde that S. Gregorie did exercise his iurisdiction ouer al the Bishops in the worlde in case they failed in any thing and tooke him selfe to haue cure and charge of them al not as a King and Tyrant but as a brother yea rather a seruant to al. Gregor Lib. 7. Epist 64. For he confesseth euery Bishop to be his equal so long as he sinneth not or as longe as his Church suffereth not some defecte And in that case he supplieth al negligences and al defectes and prouideth for al Churches in Asia in Europa and in Aphrica as his Epistles doo fully declare The whiche if I were disposed here ambitiously to blase as M. Iewelles custome is I might write out the effecte of twelue great bookes of S. Gregories epistles whiche doo fully proue these my sayinges But for so muche as that is already donne sufficiently let this one sentence serue for al. S. Gregorie saith of his owne Church of Rome The Apostolike See Head of al churches Gregor li. 11. epist 54. Apostolica Sedes omnium Ecclesiarum Caput est The Apostolike See is the Head of al Churches This being so let vs now consider that M. Iewel doth not only mislike with the name of Vniuersal Bishop as not becoÌ„ming the Bishop of Constantinople because he was of lower degree then the Bishop of Rome nor only as vnseemely also for the Bishop of Rome bicause it conteineth a proude and ambitious brag and a meaning that may be taken in euil sense for which cause no Bishop of Rome euer vsed that name Defence pag. 118. but also he misliketh with me for saying that the name of Vniuersal Bishop in a right sense is no proude name in respect of him to whom it belongeth By a right sense I meane that sense which S. Gregorie allowed and that whiche the fourth general Councel allowed Yea farther M. Iewel saith that some Popes would haue had Ibidem and ambitiously laboured for the title of Vniuersal Bisshop and againe that the Councel of Carthage forbad the Pope of Rome to be called the Vniuersal Bisshop Al these thinges are false and fond as now it shal be proued Gregor li. 4. epist 32 ad Mauricium IteÌ„ eodeÌ„ lib. epist 36. ad Eulogium Anastasium Item codem lib. epist 38. ad Iohannem CoÌ„stantinop Gregor li. 4. epist 36 Tâ—e name of Vniuersal Bishop offered to Popâ— Leo by the Councel of Chalcedon The name of Vniuersal 8. in vvhat sense agreable to the â—ope Firste S. Gregorie witnesseth that the fourthe Councel offered the name of Vniuersal Bishop to Pope Leo â–ª Therefore saie I there is a good meaning in that name whiche the See of Rome maie laufully vse For it is not to be thought that the fourth Vniuersal Councel assembled out of the whole worlde wherein were six hundred thirty and six Bishops would haue offered that name vnto the Pope whiche by no meanes could be verified of him S. Gregories wordes are these written to Eulogius and Anastasius the two patriarches of Alexandria and of Antioche Sicut veneranda vestra sanctitas nouit vni per sanctam Chalcedonensem synodum Pontifici sedis Apostolicae cui Deo disponente deseruio hoc Vniuersitatis nomen oblatum est As your Reuerend holines knoweth this name of Vniuersalitie or of Vniuersal Bishop was offered by the holy Councel of Chalcedon to the only Bishop of the Apostolike See wherein I serue by the disposition of God If then that name of Vniuersalitie was offered to the Pope and onely to him how can it be iustified that the said name may in no sense be agreeable vnto the Pope of Rome If it may be agreeable vnto the Pope in any sense it is in this bicause he is the chiefe of al Bishops who by office hath care of the whole Churche For the name of Vniuersal must needes haue respecte to the Whole Churche And in that only sense did the Fathers of that Councel of Chalcedon offer that name to the Pope bicause they knew that thing dignitie and office to be in the Pope for that he is S. Peters Successour whiche cause also is expressed in S. Gregorie Gregor lib 4. epist 32. Certè nomen Vniuersalis Episcopi pro beati Petri Apostolorum Principis honore per venerandam Chalcedonensem SynoduÌ„ Romano Pontifici oblatum est Soothly the name of Vniuersal Bishop was offered by the reuerend Councel of Chalcedon to the Bishop of Rome for the honour of S. Peter the Prince of the Apostles Marke M. Iewel he saith not that it was offered bicause Rome was the Emperial Citie That had ben a heathnish respecte but it was offered for the honour of S. Peter If it may then be vsed in a good sense only of that Bishop who is the Successour of S. Peter M. Iewel hath vniustly reproued me That no Pope vsed the title of Vniuersal Bishop Gregor li. 4. epis 32 Now to the second point that no Pope vsed the same title So saith S. Gregorie in the same place Nullus corum vnquam hoc singularitatis vocabulum assumpsit nec vti consensit ne dum priuatum aliquid daretur vni honore debito Sacerdotes priuarentur vniuersi None of the Bishops of Rome hath taken this name of Singularitie vpon him nor did consent to vse it lest whiles some peculiar thing should be geuen to one al Priestes or Bishops together should be depriued of their due honour This modestie was then in Popes for six hundred yeres together But this man here saith Iewel Pag. 118. VVherfore then did their Successours that folovved aftervvard so ambitiously labour to geate the same Harding They laboured not for it nor vsed it any time afterward as their style in al ages til this day doth witnesse For the Bishoppes of Rome doth not write them selues Vniuersal Bishops The Popes stile Seruus seruoruÌ„ Dei but eche one Seruum Seruorum Dei the Seruant of Goddes Seruantes And that style was of purpose taken and reteined of them to checke thereby the pride of the Bishop of Constantinople who neuer leaft his proude name of Vniuersal til the Turcke was sent ouer him to chasten bothe him for his Shisme and al that defended or obeied him in despite of the Bishop of Rome And that you bring out of Platina proueth not that any Pope euer called him selfe Vniuersal Bishop but when the Bishops of Rome sawe that the Bishops of Constantinople would needes by force keepe and vse that arrogant name Bonifacius 3. then Bonifacius the third intending to stay that together with that name the right of the See Apostolike should not be lost and passe away to the See of Constantinople then I
shal succede him that is your accursed addition but he saith non parcentes gregi which you haue left out Those rauening Wolues shal not spare the flocke but shal diuide the faith and scatter the flocke as you haue doone For where one Faith was you haue made two and where charitie was you haue set debate Now whereas S. Paule farther saith men speaking peruerse things shal spring out of them selues he saith not Act. 20. they shal spring by Succession That is your foule corruption of the holy texte He addeth also other wordes immediatly whiche you haue leaft out as vtterly betraying your foule Heresies It foloweth in the selfe same clause and sentence vt abducant discipulos post se There shal spring out of your selues men speaking peruerse thinges Act. 20. to leade away scholars after them Vt abducant to lead away Whence shal they lead them from the Apostles and from their Successours and from the flocke wherein they liued before Whither shal they lead them Post se after them selues That is to saie they shal not keepe the former Succession of Doctrine and order teaching as their Fathers haue donne but they shal departe from that Succession and shal leade and cari◅ others awaie with them and become peruerse Teachers in suche sorte that they shal haue Disciples of their owne who shal beare their name as Luther hath the Lutherans Zuinglius hath the Zuinglians Caluine hath the Caluinistes after him who goe away from their forefathers Doctrine and them selues set vp a new beleefe comming in Christes name and pretending his Gospel but yet not teaching his truth bicause thei leaue the Succession where only his truth was and is taught For it onely doth by open practise shewe and witnesse the true meaning of his worde vvho be the leaders avvay of the Flock 3. Reg. 12. This this M. Iewel is the Succession that we claime by Tu abducis you leade awaye the flocke from their auncient Pastours and shepeherds we tarie stil behinde in the old Succession of Peters Chaier Ieroboam went out from Moyses Chaier and caried ten tribes after him so did Arius and so did Luther so did Caluine so doo you The Prophetes taried behind with Moyses Chaier in so muche that good Simeon Anna Zacharias Elizabeth and our Ladie the Blessed Virgin Marie chose rather to dwel in Gods Church with the vnclean scribes and Pharisees then to goe out ofter the Samaritans and to seeke a cleaner Congregation either in the mount Garizim or in Egipte in the Scismatical Temple of Onias Euen so doo we abyde stil in the olde Church neither are we greatly moued with your mockes and scoffes when ye cal it the Mumpsimus Churche Yea we abide contented with the olde translation of the Bible with the olde Portuises and Masse bookes yea perhappes also emong some Scribes and Pharisees But yet there by Goddes grace we wil looke for our Lords glorious comming who commended our forefathers to the special charge of Peter Ioan. 21. and therein vs to his Successours We are within the Fold ye without we are Sheepe ye are Goates we keepe in al that we can ye drawe away and pul out al that ye can we sprang not out of you but ye out of vs. If S. Paule had spoken of his Successours in that place he would not haue said Vt abducant to leade away scholars For when some be leadde away some others tarie behind Now the Successour if he abide not behinde he is no Successour Nestorius a skatterer of the flock but a leader away In so muche that Nestorius being Bishop of Constantinople yet when he taught otherwise of Christes Person then his Predecessours had donne he was then no Successour of Alexander Paulus and S. Chrysostome because he disalowed those his Predecessours but he was a scatterer of the flocke and a leader away of Scholars after him selfe and not after his Predecessours Thinke you that any true beleeuing man taketh you M. Iewel for one of the Successours of S. Augustine our Apostle M. Ievv no Successour of our Apostle S. Augustine who conuerted our English nation from Idolotrie to Christe Are you his Successour Why you lead men away from him and persuade in this your booke that he was not our true Apostle nor any true teacher of Gods worde but a cruel and blouddy man 1. Ioan. 2. and proud aboue measure Away Woolfe and deuoure thy Goates abroade thou camest from vs but thou wert not of vs for if thou hadst benne of vs thou hadst remained stil with vs. I exhorte al Christian menne to returne vnto the Succession of Peter and of al other faithful menne who abide in the same faith with him Iewel S. Hierome saith they be not alvvayes the children of holy men that by Succession haue the places of holy men Dist 40. Non est Harding Double holines There is a double holinesse one of life an other of state or office Concerning life it is true that many times euil men succede in the place of good And so meant your Author M. Ievv falsifieth S. Hierome Dist 40. Nō est facile as his owne wordes whiche in the same sentence you haue leafte out doo witnesse For thus he saith Non Sanctorum filij sunt qui tenent loca sanctorum sed qui exercent opera eorum They are not the children of the Saintes who holde the places of the Saintes but those who practise the workes of the Saintes In this sentence you haue leaste out the ende and haue caste in of your owne the worde alwayes and these two wordes by Succession And when al is done the sentence is not S. Hieromes but Gratians owne added to the former woordes of S. Hierome Howbeit they are somewhat altered Hierom. epist ad Heliodorū For thus saith S. Hierome Non est facile stare loco Pauli tenere gradum Petri iam cum Christo regnantium It is not an easy thing to stande in the place of Paule and to holde the Degree of Peter now raigning with Christe of whiche ye can take no aduantage against Succession whereof we treat Holinesse of degree and office Ioan 1. But concerning holinesse of Degree state and office there is the same holinesse in the Successour which was in the Predecessour For it is Christe that baptizeth and that in like ministeries worketh by the euil man as wel as by the good so long as the Succession is not broken of and forsaken For if that be once done he that maketh the breache is not properly a Successour in truthe but a beginner of errour As for example Who wil say that Cranmer was the Successour of S. Thomas Cranmer no Sucessour of S. Thomas the blessed Martyr or of Bishop Warrham in the Chaier of Cantorburie I trowe he him selfe would not say it if he were a liue seing he succeded not in their Faith and Doctrine Iewel Pag. 127. Not vvithstanding the
doctrine is to be adiudged to come of lying as that which sauoureth against the truth of the Churches of the Apostles of Christ and of God Our doctrine proued to be true by the Successiō of the Apostolique Churche Now concerning our Churches it is euident that we agree with the original and mother Churches which were planted by the Apostles For we agree in faith with the Churche of Rome which was planted by the most blessed Apostles S. Peter and S. Paule and alwaies kepte her Succession til this present daie and therefore our doctrine is true But you agree in faith with no Churche at al now extant in the worlde which came from the Apostles and therefore your doctrine by the rule of Tertullian is false and lying Whiles he then disputed with Heretikes as we doo now with you he said either these Heretikes confesse that they beganne since the Apostles time and they are false teachers or if any of them dare intrude them selues into the Apostles age Edant origines Ecclesiarum suarum then let them bring forth the beginninges or shew the original euidences of their Churches let them vnfold the order of their Bishops so ronning along from the beginning by Succession that he who is the first Bishop had for his founder and predecessour one of the Apostles or of the Apostolike men who continued til the ende with the Apostles in the same faith Hoc enim modo Ecclesiae Apostolicae census suos deferunt For by this way the Apostolike churches do shew forth along their publike registers At length hauing brought forth the examples of the Churche of Smyrna and of the Churche of Rome and of other like Churches he concludeth thus confidenly Consingant tale aliquid Haeretic◠let the Heretiques feine some suche matter He bad them feme For he wel knewe in truth they coulde shew no suche Succession I haue then shewed that Tertullian spake not of Heretikes who lacked the pretense of Gods worde M. Ievvels Doctrine is proued by Tertulliā erroneus for lacke of Succession proued but of them who had no Succession of Bishoppes from the Apostles time til their owne age And one such Succession of Bishoppes in any one Church of al the worlde seing M. Iewel can not bring forth it remaineth that he is an Heretike and that his Doctrine is erroneus false and heretical Iewel Tertullian saith not vnto vs but vnto you and suche as you be let them shevv forth the Originals of their Churches Harding Is that al he saith M. Iewel Why went you not forth to the next wordes The Scrolles or rolles of Bishops names Let them vnfold the order of their Bishoppes He calleth it vnfolding bicause the Bishoppes names were vsed to be kept and written in order in long Rolles the whiche Rolles must be vnfolded when they are to be read He meant not therefore such Originals M. Iewel as you imagine to wit particular examples of this or that facte but he meant the Original copies or instrumentes and euidences of founding and planting of their Churche who it was that preached the Faith first vnto them and who was their first Bishop who the second who the third and so forth vntil the present time Iewel Euen so vve say vnto you shevv vs the Originals of your doctrine Harding You say not euen right so as Tertullian said For he called not for the Originals of Doctrine but of Churches Originals of Churches For by the Churches the Doctrine is knowen to be good or euil to be allowable or reproueable Iewel Shevv vs any one of the Apostles of Christe or of the learned Catholike Doctours of the Churche that euer said your priuate Masse Shevv one at the lest either Greeke or Latine Harding It was not that which Tertullian required He demaunded only for the Originals of Churches and for the order and Succession of Bishops But for that you durst not cal knowing that we could shew how S. Augustine conuerted vs being sent into England from S. Gregorie the Pope whiche Pope S. Gregorie succeded S. Peter in his Chaier Thus we can shew the Originals of our Churches bringing them from the Catholike Bishops whiche are yet aliue M. Ievvslyly diuerteth from the present matter to an other mater impertinent touching priuate Masse vpward vntil S. Peter But you are fallen away from the matter of Succession which only Tertullian presseth and are now come to demaunde of a particular facte whether any Apostle or olde Father euer said priuat Masse or no. I say al of them might haue said priuate Masse and that I proue by Tertullians reason and rule bicause the vse of saying priuate Masse came to vs time out of minde by Succession without any change or innouation noted therin by any storie or Chronicle And yet was ther neuer any strange or new thing receiued and vsed in the Churche but that great trouble came thereof as now there doth of your changing of Religion the whiche trouble of Churches and common Weales is at no time omitted in the stories of that age wherein it falleth But now seing the vse of saying priuat Masse came so peaseably to vs from hand to hand and no first author thereof can be shewed it is out of al controuersie that it was euer accompted a Godly and a lawful thing But what neede I now to repeate that I haue already written in that argument Answer that parte of my booke better to the purpose then yet ye haue donne whiche treateth of that point where many plaine euidences be brought forth of Sole Receiuing Sole Receiuing in the Primitiue Churche In my ansvvere Art 1. and likevvise in my first Reioindre Aug. Epi. 165. whiche Sole Receiuing is the onely thing for whiche you reproue priuate Masse as you cal it It is cleare that S. Chrysostom and certaine others said Masse and yet had no man to receiue with them as I haue other where declared I thinke not good now to fal into that Disputation againe and therefore here I wil cal you home to the present Argument of Succession Iewel Pag. 128. 129. S. Augustine saith of so many Bishops of Rome there could not one be found that had benne a Donatiste Euen so in like sorte say vve to you of al the same Bishops of Rome there can not be one found that euer agreed vvith M. Harding in saying Masse Or if there vvere any such shevv his name vvith other Circumstances vvhen and vvhere and vvho vvere vvitnesses of the doing Shevv vs your Originals M. Harding Confesse the Truth deceiue vs no longer It is a nevv deuise ye haue it only of your selues and not by Succession from the Apostles Harding You pretend to reason like S. Augustine as though he had reasoned vpon a particular facte and not vpon the Doctrine Euen so in like sorte say you and it is not euen so nor in like sorte S. Augustine concluded that the Donatistes were Heretikes S. Augustines
De potestate Apostolic one of your ovvne Doctours vvould haue told you thus In the Churche one Bisshop is sufficient to consecrate another And it is nothing els but for the solemnitie of the matter that the Church hath deuised that three Bisshops should ioyne togeather Harding Surely you tooke great paines to finde out sumwhat for your excuse when you forsooke the example of the Apostles and of the auncient Councelles and went from S. Peter the Apostle to Peter de Palude for your Defence And yet he saith nothing that maketh against vs. For he saith not that any Catholike Bisshop was euer consecrated of lesse then three but that one sufficeth to consecrate a Bishop I meant that in al solemne consecrations it hath ben so and Petrus de Palude denieth it not but he saith one sufficeth and meaneth that in a case of extremitie one bishop alone may consecrate an other and the same I denie not But consider for what purpose I spake it My talke was directed to you M. Iewel and your fellowes who after fifteen hundred yeres in a realme that hath not lacked Christian pastours and bishops in it for the space of these thirteen hundred yeres togeather ought not now to pretend any necessitie as though three Bishops either in that countrie or in the next could not be founde who might solemnize your Ordering and Consecration Iewel Pag. 130. Likevvise Iohannes Maior an other of your ovvne Doctours vvould haue said vnto you Quis ordinauit Petrum c. VVho ordered Peter In 4. sentent dist 24. q. 3. and made him a bishop They can not shewe me three Bisshops that ordered him Therefore I say that a bisshop be ordered of other three Bisshops it is an ordināce made by man For Paule when he ordered Titus and Timotheus he sought not about for other two Bisshops Harding See now againe how farre this man is gonne from the Doctours of the first six hundred yeres If you wil stand to their iudgement M. Iewel whom you allege M. Ievvel allegeth the Schoolemenne vvho are vvel knovven to be altogether contrarie to him they cōdemne you for an Heretike and a Schismatike bicause you haue forsaken that Doctrine of faith and that holy fellowship wherein they liued and died They offered the external sacrifice of the Churche and taught it to be offered for the liue and dead in Christe who died for both and least vs his owne body in a Sacrament to be made and consecrate by the priestes of the new testament for the application of Christes merites to euery particular faithful man and for the whole body of the Churche Seing you say this is Idolatrie why seeke you for helpe at their handes who haue taught vs this doctrine for which you tel vs they be in hel Againe admit it be an ordinance of man that a bishop should be consecrate of three other bishops Is it therefore in your power to breake euery ordinance of man It was the ordinance of men that ye should paye this or that tribute vnto your prince May ye therefore cease to paie it at your pleasure That which man ordeined By what man may the ordinance of man be changed may in deede be altered by an other man but he must then be of the same power that he was of who ordeined it The Apostles ordeined that a Bishop be consecrate of three An Apostle therefore is not bound to that ordinance But are you and your brethren Apostles that ye take vpon you to alter the Apostolike ordinances If ye were but the scholars of the Apostles ye would keepe their Successions and follow their steppes But now whereas they kepte Christian men in one bonde of peace yee skatter the flocke into so many sectes as there are proude and vaineglorious men emong you Iewel 130. VVhereas it farther pleaseth you to cal for my letters of Orders and to demaunde of me as by some authoritie vvhether I be a Priest or no vvhat handes vvere laid ouer me and by vvhat order I vvas made I ansvver you I am a Priest made long sithens by the same Order and ordinance and I thinke also by the same man and the same handes that you M. Harding vvere made Priest by in the late time of that most vertuous prince King Edvvard the sixth Therefore you can not vvel doubt of my Priesthoode vvithout like doubting of your ovvne Harding Neither by the same Ordinance M. Iewel nor by the same man nor by the same handes nor in the time of the same late King How be it you tel not halfe my tale I laid for my foundation out of S. Hierome these wordes Dialog contra Luciferianos Ecclesia non est quando non habet Sacerdotem Church is there none which hath not a Priest or Bishop and such a Priest he there describeth as may consecrate the Sacrament of the Aulter that is to say that may offer External Sacrifice and such a Bishop he describeth who may order priestes For Sacerdos as you know doth signifie bothe a Priest and Bishoppe Sacerdos Bishop or Priest Nowe S. Hierome there disputed against Hilarius a Deacon whom being alone in his newe secte and not hable to offer Sacrifice nor to make Priestes it behoued needes to leaue that his congregation without a Priest I aske you then as wel of your bishopply vocation and of your Sending as of your Priesthoode Geue me leaue I praie you here to put you in minde of my wordes once againe Thus I said Confut. fol. 57. b. Hard questions proponed to M. Ievvel and yet you haue not answered me Therefore to goe from your Succession which ye can not proue and to come to your Vocation how say you Sir You beare your selfe as though you were a Bishop of Sarisburie But how can you prooue your Vocation By what authoritie vsurpe you the administration of Doctrine and Sacramentes What can you allege for the right and proufe of your Ministerie Who hath called you Who hath laid handes on you By what example hath he donne it How and by whom are you consecrated Who hath sent you Who hath committed to you the office you take vppon you Be you a Prieste or be you not If you be not howe dare you vsurpe the name and office of a Bisshoppe If you be tel vs who gaue you Orders The institution of a Prieste was neuer yet but in the power of a Bisshoppe Bisshoppes haue alwaies after the Apostles tyme according to the Ecclesiastical Canons benne consecrated by three other Bisshops with the consent of the Metropolitane Cut of by M. Ievvel and Confirmation of the B. of Rome * Thus vnitie hath hitherto benne kepte thus schismes haue benne staied And this S. Cyprian calleth Legitimam Ordinationem Cyprian lib. 1. epistol 6. Lawful Ordering For lacke of whiche he denied Nouatus to be a Bishop or to haue any auctoritie or power in the Churche Hereto neither you nor your fellowes
who haue vnlawfully inuaded the administration of the Sacramentes can make any iust and right answer I am sure * These being my questions M. Iewel you answer neither by what example handes were laid on you nor who sent you but only you say he made you priest that made me in king Edwardes daies Verely I neuer had any name or title of Priesthod geuen to me during the raigne of King Edward I onely tooke the Order of Deaconshippe as it was then ministred farther I went not So that if you haue none other Priesthoode then I had in King Edwardes time you are yet but a Deacon and that also not after the Catholique manner but in a Schismatical sorte Truly after that I had wel considered with my selfe those questions which in my Confutation I moued vnto you I tooke my selfe neither for a Priest nor yet for a lawful Deacon in al respectes by those orders Rom. 13. which were taken in king Edwardes daies For I cōsidered that whereas al power commeth from God most specially the power whereby the Church is gouerned commeth from him by Christe And seing al men know and see how the power whereby temporal kingdomes are gouerned is and ought to be wel witnessed by lineal descent of bloud or els by election and such other vocations as are among men and seing that external witnesse whereby their titles are proued is both good and necessary I thought that it was much more conuenient to graunt that the power whereby Christes Churche is gouerned ougtht to be wel witnessed euen outwardly ◠Timo. 3. sithens S. Paule requireth also that a Bisshoppe or Priest should be of a good name emong the Infidels if he liue with them And seing Christ came into the worlde to be seene and to minister and to institute visible Sacramentes and to sende visible Preachers Iohan. 02 I considered what an absurditie it was after his Ascension for man to chalenge an Inuisible Churche or Succession to him selfe Furthermore when I vewed the state of the Primitiue Churche and saw that Bishoppes euermore succeded lineally one after an other euen from the Apostles time and had read that same order of Succession to be vrged and pressed vpon by S. Irenaeus S. Cyprian Optatus and S. Augustine as is afore noted And perceiued that who soeuer forsooke the open and knowen Successiō of Bishops he was condemned for an Heretike as wel in the Latine as in the Greeke Churche al these thinges being set before myne eyes through Gods grace who shewed me them I esteemed not the title of any Ministerie which I might seeme to haue receiued in King Edwardes time so muche as I should haue done if I had receiued it of a Catholique Bishop and after the order of the Catholique Churche being wel assured that those who tooke vpon them to geue Orders were altogether out of Order them selues and ministred them not according to the rite and manner of the Catholique Churche as who had forsaken the whole Succession of Bishops in al Christendome and had erected a new Congregation of their owne planting the forme whereof was imagined only in their owne braines and had not benne seene nor practised in the world before Now the same reasons which with many other moued me I proponed to M. Iewel not being wholly without hope but that through Gods grace they might haue moued him also And yet he not vnwitting that I had returned to the vniuersal and onely true Churche and that I had taken a better ground of Priesthod then his Secte hath among whom al external Priesthod is vtterly denied he dissembling al this wil seeme to be a Priest by my knowledge and confession as if he and I had benne made priestes by the same man No no M. Iewel We were in parte together but I thanke God of it wee were not wholly together For I was with you with feare of God and with misliking of many your deedes and opinions and with desire to serue God in that Truthe Religion and Churche wherein I might safely reste and quiet my selfe In your fellowship I soughte that safe quietnes but I neuer founde it bicause my feete were not staied vpon the Rocke nor vpon anie sure grounde sith I sawe what ye misliked but I sawe not what ye woulde haue I sawe what ye pulled downe but I sawe not what ye set vp I sawe from what auncient Churche ye were departed but I sawe you not to goe to any elder societie of faithful men then your selues were And yet I knewe and at the length considered that Christes Churche must be aboue fifteen hundred yeres olde whereas your Churche place it at Wittenberge at Zuriche or in what other corner so euer ye wil is not yet ful fiftye yeres olde and your firste Preacher can shewe no commission either ordinarie or miraculous for him selfe These reasons with diuers other moued me the same also ought to haue moued you And bicause you can not answer them you dissemble them and therefore of your lawful Commission Vocation and Sending you speake neuer a worde Iewel 130. Father as if you vvere my Metropolitane ye demaunde of me vvhether I be a Bishop or no. I ansvver you I am a Bishop and that by the free and accustomed Canonical Election of the vvhole Chapter of Sarisburie assembled solemnely together for that purpose Harding It was no free Election M. Iewel M. Iewels canonical election to the See of Sarisburie when the Chapter whiche chose you saw that excepte it chose you it selfe shoulde be in danger of the lawe and of the Princes displeasure It was no Canonical Election when he was chosen whom the olde Canons haue iudged vnable for that Vocation For howe can he be chosen Bishoppe that is to saye highe Prieste who teacheth that there is not at al any external Priesthod in the Churche Howe can he be chosen Bishoppe that is to saye highe prieste who teacheth with the olde condemned Heretique Aerius Epiphan Haeres 75. that by Gods lawe there is no difference betwen a Bisshoppe and a priest How can he be lawfully chosen Bishoppe in Sarisburie according to the olde Canons who teacheth al the olde Canons to be superstitiouse wherein from the Apostles time Praiers for the dead were commaunded and prescribed What Canon can allowe his Election who breaketh the Vnitie of the Churche and diuideth him selfe and his flocke 〈…〉 Quenes Chappel let M. Richard Chaundler prebendarie there and Archedeacon of Sarisburie let your owne frende and faithfelowe M. Parry Chauncellour of that Churche be demaunded whether I was present at your Election and gaue free and open consent vnto it or no. I maruel that you who can remember so many sayinges of Glosers and Canonistes could not remember to cal for the Registers booke or for the witnesse of those of that Church there with you daily present to vnderstand the truth hereof before you wrote this much You knew it you knew it right wel M.
Counters the Kinges Beanch and other prisons in London be hable to kepe men fast But if you speake of your owne Church surely you had Apostates and renegate priestes in it Aduersus LuciferiaÌ„ or you had no Church at al as out of S. Hierome I shewed before who saith no Priest no Church And verely no trew Church euer was there without an External and publike Sacrifice which it might offer to God to acknowlege that he is the beginning and ende of al grace and goodnes But where no external Priesthod is as you now beleue ther is none there is no external Sacrifice and coÌ„sequeÌ„tly no true Church And seing renegate priestes can not make a true Church nor their Sacrifice can be acceptable vnto God yea rather seing they are of the mind and belefe that it is not lawful to honour God with the external Sacrifice of Christes owne body and bloud leaft to vs for that intent it doth stil follow that although ye haue true Priestes which runne from vs yet haue ye neither true Sacrifice by them nor true Church Ievvel Pag. 131. Tâ—rtullian saith Nonne laici sacerdotes sumus scriptum est c. And vve being laye men are vve not priestes it is written In exhortatione ad CastitateÌ„ Christ hath made vs both a kingdome and priestes vnto God his father The authoritie of the Church and the honour by the assemblie or Councel of Order sanctified of God hath made a difference betwen the laye and the clergie whereas there is no assemblie of ecclesiastical Order the priest being there alone vvithout the companie of other priestes doth both minister the oblatioÌ„ and also baptize Yea and be there but three together and though they be laye men yet is there a Church For euery man liueth of his owne faith Harding Wonder not M. Iewel as you confesse that once you did at your misfortune and euil lucke in that by vs a thowsand faultes are sooner fownd in your bookes then you could wel without blushing if any shame were in you note two hundred in myne For who so euer writeth against the truth can not possibly bring one word which for maintenance of an vntruth may be altogether truly applied after the writers minde out of whome the same is alleged onlesse that writer were him selfe an Heretike or in that behalfe by better iudgement noted of some errour Therefore it is easier to find many thowsand Lyes in your bookes then any fewe in myne And as that hath ben shewed in many other examples heretofore so shal it now appeare most euidently in this which you bring out of Tertullian TertulliaÌ„ in exhort ad castitatem MoÌ„tanus and Tertullian coÌ„demned the secoÌ„d Mariages First the booke and worke that you allege is one of those which Tertullian wrote against the Churche after that he became an Heretike and was one of the disciples of Montanus For as Montanus did condemne the second Mariages so did his scholar Tertullian Who hauing corruptly interpreted many places of S. Paule commeth at the length to proue his heresie by conferring the olde Testament with the new Ecce in veteri lege c. Beholde saith he in the olde lawe I finde the licence of mariyng ofte to be inhibited It is enacted in the booke of Leuiticus Sacerdotes mei non plus nubent my Priestes shal not marrye any more But the fulnes of the law as in other pointes so in this was reserued to Christe alone VVhereupon it was more fully and more streightly prescribed that those ought bo be of one matrimonie who are chosen in the Priestly ordâ—r In so much that I my selfe remember certaine menne for hauing had two wiues to haue ben remoued from their place of Priesthod An obiection of TertulliaÌ„ against him selfe But thou wilt say Then is it lawful for other menne to marrie twise for so much as exception is made against them to wit against Priestes to whom it is not lauful to haue ben twise maried Hitherto Tertullian hath gon about by the example of the Priestes of the olde and new Testament to shew that Laye men also may not marrye but once For in the newe Testament S. Paule would haue them only chosen to Priesthod Tit. 1. The husband of one vvife who are or haue benne the husbandes of one wife that is to saye haue neither had two wiues at once nor haue married a widowe nor haue had two wiues one after an other For al this doth the Apostle meane and the auncient Fathers do so witnesse Now Tertullian saw euidently that there was a difference betwen Priestes and laye menne whereupon he made the former obiection to him selfe that the second mariages which only do staye a man from being Priest are absolutely lawful for him who wil be no Priest but wil remaine stil in the degree and state of laye men To the which obiection being to strong for Tertullian it behoued him so to answere as yet his heresie against the second mariages might be mainteined So that nowe M. Iewel bringeth forth his heretical answer made vnto a Catholikes argument Thus then Tertullian goeth forwarde Vani erimus si putauerimus quòd Sacerdotibus noÌ„ liceat laicis licere nonne laici Sacerdotes sumus We shal be deceiued or we shal be vaine men if we shal thinke that to be lawful for Laye menne whiche is not lawful for Priestes We that are Laye men are we not Priestes also And so he goeth forward with that which M. Iewel did allege for his purpose Double priesthod For wheras there is a double Priesthod one publike and external which is onely coÌ„mon to those that receiue power to consecrate Christes Body and Bloud at the Altare the other priuate and internal which is indifferently common to the Priestes and to laye men whereby they al receiue power in Baptisme to offer spiritual Sacrifices vnto God 1. Pet. 2. as S. Peter saith Tertullian would haue the argument to be good that as none are made publike and external Priestes whiche haue had two wiues so none who are internal priestes might haue two wiues But Tertullian is deceiued in his heretical argument as wel as M. Iewel is in alleging an heretical authoritie Whereupon S. Hierome saith Montanus TertulliaÌ„ enemie â—o sâ—coÌ„d mariages qui Nouati schisma sectaÌ„tur putant secunda matrimonia ab Ecclesiae communione prohibenda cùm Apostolus de Episcopis Praesbyteris hoc praecipiens vtique in caeteris relaxârit non quòd hortetur ad secunda matrimonia sed quòd necessitati carnis indulgeat Montanus and those who followe the schisme of Nouatus thinke that the second Mariages ought to be forbidden from the Communion of the Church whereas the Apostle geuing that commaundement vnto Bishoppes and priestes hath doubteles released it in other men Not that he exhorteth them to secoÌ„d mariages but bicuase he yeeldeth to the necessitie of the flesh So that S. Hierome reproueth
it Of the povver of Priesthod He that listeth to see more of the necessitie of Confession maie resorte to M. Allens learned booke of the lawful power of Priesthod to remitte sinnes The fifth booke conteineth a Detection of M. Iewelles errours lies sclaunders c. touching the Marriages of Priestes and Votaries the Canonical Scriptures the Sacramentes and other pointes of Doctrine The wordes of the Apolagie In the Defence 2. parte ca. 8. Diuision 1. Pag. 163. VVe saie that Matrimonie is holy and honourable in al sortes and states of personnes as in the Patriarkes in the Prophetes in the Apostles in the holy Martyrs in the Ministers of the Churche and in Bishoppes and that it is an honest and lavvful thing as Chrysostom saith for a man liuing in matrimonie to take vpō him therevvith the dignitie of a Bishop Confutation fol. 73. b. Matrimonie is holy and honorable in al persons and an vndefyled bedde as sayth S. Paule Hebre. 13. Yet is it not lawful for them to marye whiche either haue by deliberate vowe dedicated almaner their chastitie vnto God or haue receiued holy order For the vowed be forbidden mariage by expresse word of God Those that haue taken holy orders by tradition of the Apostles and auncient ordinaunce of the Church Touching the first the Scripture is plaine bicause a vowe is to be performed Psal 75. Vouete reddite Domino Deo vestro Vowe ye and paye or render that ye vowe to your Lorde God Christ also sayeth in the gospel Matt. 19. there be some eunuches that haue made them selues eunuches for the kingdome of heauens sake He that can take let him take Vovve-breakers in vvhat danger they stād 1. Tim. 5. Againe S. Paul speaking of young widowes which haue vowed and promised chastitie sayeth that when they waxe wanton against Christ they wil mary hauing damnation bicause they haue broken their first faith Whether these scriptures perteine hereto and be thus to be vnderstanded we referre vs to the primitiue Church and to al the holy Fathers * Frō starre to starre leafte out of M Ievels booke VVhat the Fathers haue iudged of mariages after vovv of chastitie De bono viduitatis Whosoeuer haue thus vowed chastitie or by receiuing holy orders haue bound them selues to the bond of cōtinencie to the same by auncient constitution of the Church annexed if afterward presuming to marye excuse the satisfying of their carnal lust with the name of wedlocke be they men be they women they liue in a damnable state and be worse then Aduouterers * Suche mariages or rather slydinges and falles frō the holier Chastitie that is vowed to God S. Augustine doubteth not but they be worse then aduowtries S. Cyprian calleth this case plaine incest S. Basile accompteth the mariages of vailed Virgins to be void of no force and facrilegious She that hath dispoused her selfe to our Lorde sayeth S. Basile is not free lib. de virginitate For her husband is not dead that she may mary to whom she list And whiles her immortal husband lyueth she shal be called an aduoutresse whiche for lustes of the flesh hath brought a mortal man into our Lordes chamber * Leaft out by M. Iev The case is like in the man And whereas such persons with deliberate vowe purposed to consecrat them selues to our Lord only maides by virginitie widowes by chastitie of widowehod priestes by single life and continencie they may not with good conscience marye bicause the lust of the flesh foloweth not that former purpose but draweth the soule to her vices from that whereto it is bounde For what so euer is the worke sayeth S. Basile before whiche reason and lawe goeth not in the mynde the same is of the conscience noted for vnlawful Of al such after many wordes vttered in reproufe of their lewdnes he concludeth that they folow not wedlocke but aduoutrie But for proufe that vowed persons may not marye it were not hard to alleage so muche out of the fathers as would fil a volume * Clerkes boūde to cōtinēcie Li. 1. c. 11 Paphutius Li. 1. c. 23. Touching the second the Apostles forbidde those that come single to the Clergie to marye except such as remaine in the inferiour orders and procede not to the greater as we find in their canons Can. 25. Paphnutius as Socrates and Sozomenus record in their Ecclesiastical storie said at the Nicene Councel that it was an old tradition of the Church that such as come to the degree or order of Priesthod single should not marye wiues And this is that holy Bishop Paphnutius whom these Euangelical vowe-breakers pretend to be their proctour for their vnlawful mariages * Leaft out by M. Iev Siritius and Innocentius vver not the first ordeiners of clerkes cōtinēcie Neither Pope Siritius and Innocentius the first who liued long aboue a thousand yeres past were the first makers of the lawe that forbiddeth Priestes to marie but declaring that the same was of olde time ordeined and vsed of the Church they condemne the disorders against the same committed * Reade who list the epistle of Siritius ad Himerium Tarraconensem cap. 7. the second epistle of Innocentius to Victricius Bishop of Roen cap. 9. and his third epistle to Exuperius B. of Tolouse cap. 1. and weighing wel these places he shal perceiue that these holy Popes forbad the ministers of the Church the vse of wedlocke by the same reason by which the priestes of Moses lawe were forbidden to come within their owne houses in the time when their course came to serue in the holy ministeries By the same reason also by whiche S. Paule required maried folke for a time to forbeare the vse of their wiues 1. Cor. 7. that they might attend praying The place of S. Chrysostome alleaged by this Defender wel considered Ansvver to Chrysostoms place disproueth no part of the Catholike doctrine in this hehalfe but condemneth both the doctrine and common practise of his companions these newe fleshly Gospellers His wordes be these vpon the saying of S. Paule In 1. cap. ad Tit. homil 2. that a Bishop ought to be without crime the husband of one wife The Apostle sayeth he stoppeth the mouthes of Heretikes which condemne mariage shewing that it is not an vncleane thing but so reuerent that with the same a man may ascend to the holy throne or seate he meant the state of a Bishop and herewith he chastiseth and restraineth the vnchast persons Tvvise married may not be Bishops ād vvhy Secōd mariages lauful yet open to accusations Leaft out by M. Iev not permitting thē who haue twise maried to atteine such a rome For whereas he kepeth no beneuolēce toward his wife deceased how can he be a good gouernour Yea what greuous accusations shal not he be subiect vnto daily For ye al knowe right wel that albeit by the lawes the secōd mariages be permitted yet that
is that M. Ievvel perfourmeth in this mater of Priestes and Votaries marriages Now commeth me M. Iewel in and allegeth Doctours as thicke as haile olde and newe knowen and vnknowen allowed and disallowed Schoolemen and Summistes vea the very marginal Annotations vpon the Glose of Gratian are haled in to helpe at a pintche and yet al helpeth not Of his owne in manner he saith nothing but thus Origen saith Tertullian saith suche a one saith and suche an other saith and he saith and againe he saith c. Then he laith downe their Latine be it true be it false and putteth a translation vnto it suche as becommeth shifters to vse in a false matter and thus furnisheth out a great booke that the worlde may thinke he is a great Clerke Were al that he allegeth to the purpose then were it somewhat yet were it no great commendation to make bookes onely out of Notebookes already made and gathered to his handes First to declare his order keeping him selfe a luffe of M Iewels order in his treatie of this pointe and his tvvo principles and comming nothing neare the point wherein my Confutation consisteth he bringeth the holy Fathers into suspicion of not dealing vprightly and indifferently herein bearing the Reader in hande they haue swarued from truth either in the auauncing of Virginitie or els in the disgracing of lawful Matrimonie To make proufe of this he allegeth no smal number of sentences out of certaine Fathers in whiche not being thoroughly examined they seeme to speake hardly of Marriage specially of the second Mariage For this point his Doctours be these Tertullian in Exhortatione ad Castitatem the author of the vnperfite worke vpon S. Matthew whom he calleth Chrysostom whereas it is wel knowen not to be his as that whiche conteineth sundry heinous heresies S. Hierome writing against Iouinian Heluidius and to Gerontia Athenagoras in Apologia pro Christianis Nazianzen in dictum Euangelij Cùm perfecisset Iesus c. Origen in Lucam Homilia 17. for which his cotation hath Homil. 19. Nexte he reckeneth vp so many menne as he hath read of that being Married were afterwardes made Bisshops Of whom he saith that they vsed Mariage them selues in their owne personnes which is more then he is liable to proue if by vse of Marriage he meane the carnal copulation M. Iewels tvvo Principles These two that is to say the Fathers disgracing of Matrimonie and their hauing of wiues them selues he calleth by the name of his two Principles whiche being laid he maketh his stoute vaunte that he is the better hable to consider the substance of my reasons for so he saith and there at length he addresseth him selfe to shape an Answere to the parte of my Confutation aboue sette out Now to say somewhat to his Principles before I come to his Answer were it true that certaine Fathers speaking of Matrimonie vsed immoderate and extraordinarie speaches for so he termeth them Againe that many of them had ben married before they came to be Bishops what perteineth that to the defence of the marriage of Votaries and Priestes whiche was the point presently treated of What wil he make this fonde and childish Argument Certaine Fathers spake ouer vehemētly concerning Matrimonie Item some of them were called to the dignitie of Bishops from the state of married menne Ergo Priestes Monkes Friers and Nonnes who haue vowed Chastitie may lawfully marrie wiues and take husbandes Truly either this is his reason or els hitherto he hath no reason at al. And of what smal substance this reason is the veriest Cobblers of al their Ministers if they can reade any English besides their communion booke may easily perceiue Touching the Fathers speaches in reproufe of Matrimonie one answer M. Iewel Ansvver to M. Ievvels doctours in manner may serue to refute al that you would inferre of their sayinges Onely I excepte Tertullian who being fallen into the fowle Heresie of Montanus in his booke intituled Exhortatio ad castitatem wrote otherwise of Marriage specially in that he condemned second marriage then the Catholique Church holdeth or the trueth beareth And S. Hierome witnesseth as Beatus Rhenanus noteth that booke to haue ben written against the Churche Now we thinke not our selues bounde to defende what so euer they say whom the Churche condemneth for Heretiques As for Origen likewise you knowe of how litle credite he is in regard of sundry great errours albeit touching the case of the second and third Mariage The Fathers cal immoderate luste an euil thing for vvhiche they be thought of some vnlearned to reproue marriage De peccato originali contra Pelag. Coelestiū lib. 2. c. 37 Lib 1. de Nuptiu et Concupiscent c. 22 speaking where of you allege him he may better be defended then Tertullian may As concerning the other Fathers by you alleged the thing for which they seeme sometimes to speake of Matrimonie not fauorably is the immoderate concupiscence or luste now after sinne by our first parentes committed which is of the holy Fathers reported to be malum asmuch to say an euil thing and to procede not of God but of sinne without which euil thing the thing that is good in Matrimonie that is to say generation can not be perfourmed This besides other Fathers S. Augustine calleth oftentimes malum an euil thing as carnalis concupiscentiae malum the euil of fleshly luste and malum libidinis the euil thing of carnal pleasure c. He saith that natural shamefastnesse sheweth it so to be by whiche it commeth to passe that although married personnes glorie in Children yet when they attend vpon the worke of begeting Children they choose them selues secrete places and wil al witnesses to be out of their waie thereby confessing the shamefastnesse it selfe of Nature And this muche our first Parentes confessed after they had sinned Gen. 3. by that they were ashamed and coouered their shamely partes with Figge tree leaues as the Scripture plainely declareth Neither proceedeth this euil thing of Marriage but of sinne August in Psal 70. and it is the paine of sinne In married personnes it is euil but no sinne malum poenae not malum culpae as the Scholastical Diuines cal it And this is the meaning of that saying of the authour that wrote the vnperfite worke vppon S. Matthew Opere imperfecto in Matth. Hom. 1. sub finem whome you wil needes to be S. Chrysostome The saying is this Haec ipsa Coniunctio Maritalis malum est ante Deum Non dico Peccatum sed malum This very wedlocke Coniunction it selfe is an euil thing before God I saie not it is Sinne but I saie it is an euil thing In translating whiche woordes you doo very falsly demeane your selfe and beguyle your vnlearned Reader For in that place the authour meaneth not by Coniunctio Matrialis the Copulation of Matrimonie as you translate it as though he said VVhat is that vvhich is of the
Fathers accompted euil in vvedlok vvorke Matrimonie it selfe were an euil thing God forbid any should so speake of Goddes holy ordinance But he meaneth the coniunction of the Husband with his wife in the acte of generation Neither yet vnderstandeth he the coniunction or acte it selfe in wedlocke to be an euil thing so it be not to the end to saciate luste and pleasure but to the ende to begete a childe that being againe begotten and regenerate may serue to fil the Citie of God as S. Augustine speaketh but the immoderate concupiscence and luste without the whiche that wedlocke acte is not done Whereof S. Augustine saith August de Nuptijs et concupiscent lib. 1. cap. 24. Cùm ventum fuerit ad opus generandi ipse ille licitus honestus concubitus non poterit esse sine ardore libidinis vt peragi possit quod rationis est non libidinis This immoderate concupiscence this inordination this rebellion of the fleshe and preuenting and ouerbearing of reason this filthy motion swaruing from reason whereof shame is taken without whiche the acte of Wedlocke is not donne is the thing whiche the authour of that vnperfite worke vppon S. Matthew and sundry holy Fathers haue called Malum asmuche to say an euil thing The euil thing of wedlock vvorke of married persons vvel vsed The three good thinges of marriage à cap. 10. vsque ad cap. 16. Whiche euil thing notwithstanding married personnes doo vse wel bicause of the three good thinges that Matrimonie hath by which it is excused Those three thinges are these Fides Proles Sacramentum Faith or Fidelitie Issue and the Sacrament whereof S. Augustine teacheth learnedly in his firste booke De Nuptijs concupiscentia ad Valerium By these three good thinges as S. Augustine and the Churche teacheth the vse of Matrimonie is excused not as an acte that of it selfe is euil is excused thorough ignorance or infirmitie whiche is rather an excuse of the partie that worketh but it is excused for that otherwise it should be a sinne excepte it had these three good thinges ioyned together Whiche when it hath the Circumstances to euery good acte behooful presupposed it is an acte lawful honest good and laudable Now this being considered whereas you M. Iewel iudge the holy Fathers to speake otherwise of Matrimonie then the honor and holinesse of that state deserueth you shew your selfe to be of the nūber of those deceiued men August de Nuptus et Concupis lib. 1. ca. 5. of whom S. Augustin saith thus Profectò errāt qui cū vituperatur libido carnalis damnari nuptias opinantur quasi morbus iste de connubio sit non de peccato Verely they are deceiued which when fleshly luste is rebuked thinke that marriage is condemned as though this disease were of wedlocke August de peccato originali contra Pelag. Coelestiū lib. 2. c. 37 and not of sinne Likewise he saith againe Quia iam ista conditione mortalium nunc simul aguntur concubitus libido eò fit vt cùm libido reprehendatur etiam nuptialis concubitus licitus honestus reprehendi putetur ab eis qui nolunt discernere ista vel nesciunt Bicause as the condition of men is now after Sinne the acte of generation and lust are done both atonce thereof it commeth to passe that when luste is reprooued the lawful and honest dealing of them together that be coupled in wedlocke is thought also to be reprooued of them whiche wil not discerne betwene these thinges he meaneth the acte and the lust or els know not how to discerne them To cōclude what so euer certaine Fathers say and how so euer they seeme to speake of Matrimonie this perteined nothing to the purpose Al your great number of allegations might haue ben leafte out for asmuche as thereby your Vowbreakers marriage is nothing iustified nor defended M. Iewels second Principle for defence of Vow-breakers marriages answered which is that Bisshoppes and Priestes were married in olde time Your second Principle for so you cal it wherein you put the chiefe confidence of this cause is that many Bishops and Priestes in olde time were married for so you dispose your wordes I tel you M. Iewel you haue not so much as one example for you that a bishop was married I meane that any was euer married in the olde Church and allowed in it after that he was Bishop That diuers and sundry married menne were for their vertue and holy life made Bishops I denie not ne neuer yet denied You allege al the examples of antiquitie that you can yet not so much as one to the purpose That Tertullian was a married man Tettulliā of a married man made Priest Spiridion made Bisshop frō being a married laie man S. Hilarie married by M. Ievvel In the Reioinder against the Sacrifice of the Masse fol. 172. b. and afterwarde made a Priest I graunte You say Spiridion the Bisshop of Cyprus was married and had children I denie that Spiridion being a Bishop was married but I confesse that being a married laye man before he was chosen afterwarde to be a Bishoppe and had one daughter named Irene Whether he had mo children I knowe not of mo children of his I haue not read You make S. Hilarie the bishop of Poitiers a married man Your proufe is the Epistle to Abra his daughter If I denie that he was euer married how can ye prooue it The Epistle to Abra is a peeuish Apocryphal and forged write as I tolde you in my last Reioindre where you vtter this same very stuffe in great sooth whereby the worlde may vnderstand what simple ragges ye haue wherwith to coouer your brethern the Apostates filthy lecherie That Prosper the Bishop of Rhegium was a married man you say it but you prooue it not And were it so yet it serueth not your turne bicause if he were maried it was before he was priest Neither haue you good authoritie for proufe that Chaeremon Chaeremō the Bishop of a Citie called Nilus whom you recken among married Bishops Euseb Hist Eccles lib. 6. cap 42. was married Eusebius saith that in time of persecution he fled vnto a Hil in Arabia with her that liued with him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and was neuer founde againe That she was his wife it appeareth not She might be some woman of his kinne or some other old womā that kept him and dressed his meate and attended him as a nourse of whom he had neede being a man of extreme age as Eusebius reporteth of him saying that he was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is to say passing olde Polycrates Polycrates you say being a Bisshop sometimes said that seuen of his Fathers or Ancestours had ben Bishoppes What healpeth this your cause at al Marry say you the Greeke word is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and Ruffinus translateth it Patres Wherunto sticke you vnto the Greeke word
mariages contracted in the case of a Simple Vowe and not of a Solemne Vowe Howsoeuer a man or a woman make a Vowe to liue the single life chaste and continent and do not solemnize the same either by entring into some Religion or by taking holy Orders if not withstanding the Vow they presume to marrie the marriage holdeth But if they marrie after they haue solemnized their Vowe by entring into Religion or by taking holy Orders the marriage is none at al M. Dorman defended against M. Ievvel Defence pag. 169. Dorman in his first booke fo 16. b. and therefore is to be dissolued bicause they haue made deliuerie of them selues before the Church into the handes of their Superiours and be not in state now to dispose of their personnes or bodies otherwise as being deliuered vp to custodie of perpetual chastitie Hereof it appeareth how litle cause you had M. Iewel to reproue M. Dorman for calling the mainteiners of marriage in this case the Deuils ministers In this case I say for he speaketh expressely of Priestes And therefore you may consider how wel it became you to say that by the iudgdment of our late Louanian Clergie S. Augustine is become the minister of the Deuil for these be the termes of your seemely eloquence Here therefore I returne vpon you M. Iewel those wordes which without cause you imagine S. Augustine to say vnto me Ye speake fondly and vnaduisedly and vnderstand not what ye speake Here to returne to M. Iewels order among other thinges M. Ievvel chargeth the holy Fathers vvith ouersight for zele and heat for answere vnto certaine places of the Fathers calling such kinde of marriage worse then Aduoutrie Inceste and Sacrilege he saith that such wordes haue proceded more of zele and heate of minde then of profound consideration and iudgement of the cause And so in effecte he reiecteth the holy and auncient Fathers as men vnworthy of credite But ô Lorde what Fathers Verely the chiefe and best learned S. Ambrose S. Hierome S. Basil S. Chrysostome S. Augustine Ah good Sir lacked these learned and holy Fathers consideration and iudgement and do you acknowledge it in your selfe and your companions O menne of deepe consideration and great iudgement that coulde so easily prouide them selues of wemen to geue the bridle vnto luste Among al other thinges that he bringeth in defence of his Companions vnlawful marriage this is the fardest from reason and hath least colour of learning that by his doctrine the vow of Chastitie is to be broken and that al Monckes Friers Priestes and Nonnes may lawfully marrie bicause il promises filthy Vowes and wicked Othes ought not to be kept For proufe that il Vowes are to be broken he allegeth Isidorus out of Gratian saying 22. quaest 4. In malis In malis promissis rescinde fidem in turpi vot◠muta decretum Quod incautè vouisti ne facias impia est promissio quae scelere impletur In an il promise breake thy faith In a filthy Vow change thy purpose What thou hast vnwarely vowed doo it not It is a wicked promise that is fulfilled with mischeefe Marc. 6. Act. 23. 22. quaest 4. Inter caetera Againe he saith It is not sufficient to say I haue vowed Herode vowed Iohn Baptistes head The Iewes vowed S. Paules death Hubaldus made a vowe that he would neuer helpe his owne mother or brethren were there neede neuer so great He allegeth also the 8. Councel of Toledo Where it was declared and decreed that wicked vowes ought not to be made and if they were made that in any wise they should not be perfourmed Where for example the vowe of Herode is mencioned Iudic. 11. and that of Iephte who through his vow thought him selfe bounde to sacrifice his daughter But what reliefe bringeth al this vnto his cause onlesse he be hable to proue that Chastitie is an il and a wicked thing as the murdering of S. Iohn Baptist and of S. Paul and as the sacrificing of Iephtes daughter was But how excellēt a thing chastitie is and how acceptable it is vnto God and of how much more merite it is then matrimonie both Christ him selfe in the Gospel and S. Paule in his Epistle to the Corinthians doo partly teache vs Mat. 19. 1. Cor. 7. and the holy Fathers in māner al haue most largely declared specially S. Basil S. Chrysostome S. Ambrose S. Augustine who haue written special Treaties of Virginitie Iouinians heresie and S. Hierom and S. Augustine disputing moste learnedly against Iouinian that helde opinion Marriage and Virginitie to be of equal merite to whose Heresie our fleshly Gospellers beare special fauour and maintenance As for the eight Councel of Toledo I maruel how he durst be so bolde Concil To letan 8. Cap. 7. in Epitom Married Priestes of olde times called Apostates as to allege it which maketh so litle for him touching the breache of a Godly Vowe and so much against him touching the marriage of them that haue taken holy Orders For the wordes of the Councel be these Si verò ad coniugia morésque seculi redire attentauerint omni Ecclesiastica dignitate priuentur Apostatae habeantur in monasterio donec vixerint sub poenitentia retrudantur In case they geue the attempte to returne vnto marriages and vnto the manners of the worlde let them be depriued of al Ecclesiastical dignitie and reputed for Apostates And let them be shut vp in a Monasterie to doo penaunce so long as they liue By this M. Iewel may see by what menne his married Brethren were called Apostates and by how many hundred yeres before he and I were borne I trust he wil beare the more with me if I happen to cal them by that their auncient name some times Concerning that you pretende to allege out of one Alphonsus de Castro Philippica 19. whom you say to be one of M. Hardinges greatest Doctours in good sooth he is no whit a greater Doctour of mine Alphonsus de Castro alleged by M. Ievvel in stede of Alphonsus Viruesius Episcopus Canariē then is the man in the Moone For in deede there is none of that name that euer wrote Philippicas It is one Alphonsus Viruesius M. Iewel a learned man of this present age Bishop of Canaria who writing against Philip Melanchthon called his Orations or Treaties Philippicas after the imitation of Demosthenes who so named those most eloquent Orations that he made against King Philip of Macedonia the great Alexanders Father A like errour to that you reproue me of so often and so bitterly by ouersight naming Iosue for the Prophete Osee Thus you see your selfe not cleare of the faulte you charge me so muche withal Neither is this your only ouersight of that sorte Howbeit that I alleged out of Osee vnder the name of Iosue maketh clearly with me and this you allege out of Bishop Viruesius vnder the name of the Obseruant Frier Alphonsus de
Deacons Marriage was not made firste allowable after that he was promoted to the Order of Deaconship but before he receiued that holy Order For if he made no protestation that he would marrie and asked no licence thereto but helde his peace by the wordes that follow in the same Canon it is cleare that he bound himselfe to perpetual continencie and might neuer marrie afterwarde as he that had by taking that Order professed and promised chastitie Those wordes are these which you should haue rehersed had you dealt truly and vprightly Quicunque Diaconi tacuerunt c. Concil Ancyran cap. 10. What Deacons so euer helde their peace when they tooke Orders and receiued the laying on of the Bisshoppes hande so hauing made their profession of continencie if afterwarde they come to marrie they shal be bound to ceasse from the ministerie The case of our Apostates is not like vnto this case He that made his Protestation that he would marrie and that for necessitie and had licence of the Bishop when he married in deede was suffered to remaine in the Ministerie as they that were admitted vnto holy Orders with wedlocke For he seemed already in harte and affecte a married man And such that Prouincial Councel did beare withal when for lacke of other worthy menne the more parte yet remaining in infidelitie the Bishops were compelled to admitte to the Ministerie of the Churche married menne Your brethren can not claime by this example For they neuer made any suche protestation when they were ordered neither demaunded they euer any such licence of their Bishops but eche as they felt them selues moued with the spirite of luste vpon warrāt of your Gospel and their owne spirite went lustily to their yoke felowes and vnder pretence of Marriage concluded a lusty bargaine If ye haue no better stuffe then this for the marriage of the Apostates your companions wel you may receiue your fee of them verely it is not yet sufficiently defended Iewel So saith Pope Steuin Dist 31. Aliter Graecorum Sacerdotes Diaconi aut Subdiaconi Matrimonio copulantur The Greeke Priestes Deacons or Subdeacons are coupled in Matrimonie Glos dist 31. Aliter Vpon vvhich vvordes the Glose noteth thus Multi ex hac litera dixerunt quòd Orientales possunt contrahere in Sacris Ordinibus Many haue said vpon occasion of this texte that the Priestes of the East Church contrary to that M. Harding so certainly here assureth vs may marrie being vvithin holy Orders Harding Diuersitie betvven the East and vvest Churche touching libertie of Clerks mariages Had you rehersed the whole Decree as you found it you had marred your cause and plaid a simple Proctour Your married brethren therefore do commend your police I doubt not who see their marriage condemned by that Decree of Pope Steuen ▪ The whole is this Aliter se Orientalium traditio haebet Ecclesiarum aliter huius Sancta Romanae Ecclesiae Nā earum Sacerdotes Diacons aut Subdiaceni Matrimonio copulātur Istius autem Ecclesiae vel Occidentalium nullus Sacerdotum à Subdiacon◠vsque ad Episcopum licentiam habet coniugium sortiendi The Tradition of the East Churches is otherwise then is the tradition of this holy Romaine Church For their Priestes Deacons or Subdeacons are coupled in matrimonie ▪ but there is neuer a Priest of this Church or of the weast partes that from a Subdeacon to a Bishop hath licence to marrie By this Decree it is euidēt that so many as from a Subdeacon to a Bishop do marrie in these weast partes doo contrary to the Tradition and order of the Church And whereas you allege the Glose for you you make al that be hable to reade the place witnesses of your impudēcie For it maketh altogether against you First whereas the Decree hath Matrimonio copulantur asmuche to say the Priestes Deacons or Subdeacons of the East Church are coupled in Matrimonie the Glose expoundeth it thus and that truly id est copulato viūtur that is to say they vse Matrimonie wherein they were coupled before they tooke orders As for the other wordes of the Glose Multi ex hac litera dixerūt c. Many vpon occasion of this text haue said that they of the East Chucrh may marrie within holy Orders it is not the minde of the Glose but a some say as I may terme it and a fansie of certaine whom the author of the Glose there confuteth with these woordes immediatly folowing which by your cōmon sleight of falsifying you nipte away from the end of the sentēce Sed eis obstat infrà Distinctio proxima Si quis eorū c. But the nexte distinction that foloweth whose beginning is Si quis eorū is contrary to their opinion Distin 32. Si quis eorum That nexte Distinction taken out of the sixth Councel hath thus Si quis eorū qui ad Clerū accedūt voluerit nuptiali iure mulieri copulari hoc ante ordinationē Subdiaconatus faciat If any of them that come vnto the Clergie be willing to couple with a woman in right of Marriage let him do it before he be made Subdeacon Vpon that place the Glose saith thus whereunto it made relation in the former Distinction Istud caput euidēter est cōtra illos qui dicūt quòd Graci possunt cōtrahere in sacris ordinibus This Chapter is euidētly against them which say that the Greekes may marrie being within holy Orders Lo M. Iewel what haue you gained by the Glose he that examineth your bookes specially that of your late pretensed Defence wil say with me there was neuer such a false Gloser as you are by abusing al other writers that you allege but specially the poore Glose vpon Gratian. Iewel Of the Priestes of the vvest Churche Cardinal Caietane saith Papa potest dispensare cum Sacerdote Occidentalis Ecclesiae Catharinus contra errores Caietani errore 103. vt vxorem ducat nulla existēte causa publicae vtilitatis The Pope may dispense vvith a Priest of the vvest Churche to marrie a vvife although there be no manner cause of common profite Harding It goeth harde with you M. Iewel when you haue no better testimonies for the Marriage of Priestes then the Obiections which the Glose maketh to him selfe and the errour of Caietaine at least whiche Catharinus noteth for an errour But to whom wil you sticke To Catharinus or to Caietanus If to Catharinus then Caietane helpeth your cause nothing at al. Caietan in Opusc lib. 5. tractatu 27. For of Catharinus it is condemned for an errour If you sticke to Caietane then you disannul Catharinus who is your author For els you must tel vs where Caietane saith so and vpon what groundes he saith so vvhether the Pope may dispense vvith a Priest or religious person to marrie in a case Touching the Question whether the Pope may in a case dispense with a Priest of the West Churche or a religious man
of God Traditions c. The second Chapter Ievvel Pag. 193. In prooem in prouer Salomon Touching the booke of the Machabees vve saie nothing but that vve finde in S. Hierome S. Augustine and they holy fathers S. Hierom saith the Church receiueth them not emong the Canonical allovved scriptures Harding The bookes of the Machabees canonical emonge the faithful S. Hierome speaketh of such Canonical Scriptures of the olde Testament as the very Iewes allowed for Canonical Such in deede the bookes of the Machabees are not But why haue you not alleged S. Augustines wordes as wel as S. Hieromes Certainely bicause they condemne you For if yee said al that of the bookes of the Machabees which S. Augustine saith you would allowe them for Canonical Scriptures amonge faithful Christians August de De Ciuitat Dei lib. 18. ca. â—6 He saith Machabaeorum libros non Iudaei sed Ecclesia pro Canonicis habet As for the bookes of the Machabees not the Iewes but the Church accoÌ„pteth them for Canonical Hereunto I maiâ— adde but M. Iewel and his Companions accompte not the bookes of the Machabees for Canonical 〈◊〉 theâ—â—in they are of the Iewes Synagog and not of the Church of Christ Now see good Reader â–ª 〈…〉 be made when he said as thou findest noted in the mâ—rgeâ— of his booke Pag. 191. that he would denie no more then S. Austine S. Hierom and other Fathers haue â—enied If you say ye deny not the bookes of the Machabees â–ª 〈◊〉 â—eproue you praying for the dead which is so sufficiâ—â—â—y proued by those bookes Soothly if you allow the one you must allow the other Ievvel Pag. 193. S. Iames epistle Eusebius saith S. Iames Epistle vvas vvritten by some other and not by S. Iames VVe must vnderstand saith Eusebius that it is a bastard epistle Harding You haue abused Eusebius For he leaueth not there but goeth forward shewing what he ment by his word li. 2. c. 23. li. 2. c. 23. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whiche you turne is a bastard But Ruffinus more ciuilly translated it à noÌ„nullis non recipitur The epistle is not receiued of some men And Eusebius him selfe addeth Nos tameÌ„ scinius etiaÌ„ istas cuÌ„ caeteris publicè aplerisque fuisse Ecclesiis receptas Yet we know that S. Iames and S. Iudes Epistles with the rest haue ben publikely receiued of most Churches wherby we learne that Eusebius meaÌ„t by the worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 asmuch to say as it is accompted of some men not to be S. Iames owne Touching his owne iudgement he sheweth him selfe to be of the opinion that it is S. Iames epistle Of some he coÌ„fesseth by those wordes that it was doubted of Therfore you haue reported Eusebius vntruly making him to pronounce negatiuely of the epistle which directly he hath not don Iewel S. Hierome saith It is said that the Epistle of S. Iames vvas set forth by some other man vnder his name Hiero. iâ— catalogâ— Harding I graunte But S. Hierom had said before those wordes which you allege Vnam tantum scripsit Epistolam quae de septem Catholicis est He wrote onely one epistle which is one of the seuen Canonical Epistles Hiero. iâ— catalogâ— Ecclesi script Againe after the wordes by you alleged it followeth that the said epistle in processe of time hath obteined authoritie Ievvel 194. VVe Lutherans and Zuinglians agree throughly together in the vvhole substance of the Religion of Christe Harding I perceiue the Sacrament of Christes body and bloud is no substantial point with you and yet he that receiueth it vnworthily 1. Cor. 11. receiueth his damnation And he can not receiue it worthily who beleeueth amisse of it But either the Lutherans or the Zuinglians or bothe beleeue amisse thereof bicause in that behalfe they â—eache cleane contrary doctrine Therefore either both as the truth is or one of those two sectes as them selues must confesse receiueth alwaies vnworthily and consequently they must confesse that one of the two sectes is vtterly damned without any hope of saluation And certainely the Zuinglians as also the Caluinistes are the worse bicause they beleeue Goddes word lesse in some degree then Luther taught and go further from the literal sense of his Gospel 1. Timo. 3. and from the beleefe of the Church which is the piller of truthe Iewel 194. The Church is not God nor is able of her selfe to make or alter any article of the faith Harding Esai 59. Ioan. 14. But she is the spouse of God and to her he hath promised both his wordes and his spirite to remaine with her for euer And therefore she is the chiefe witnes of al the articles of the faith Wherefore seing you hearâ— not her witnesse you ought to be vnto vs as an Heathen Matt. 18. and a Publican Iewel Isai 8. Esaie saith to the lavv rather and to the testimonie If they ansvver not according to this vvorde they shal haue no Morning light Harding Iere. 31. Hebre. 8. This lawe is written also in our hartes as Ieremie and S. Paul doo witnesse And the successours of the Apostles geue also a testimonie of Christe no lesse Ioan. 15. then Christe said the Apostles should doo Therefore the lawe and testimonie whereunto Esaie calleth is as wel that which is written in faithful mennes hartes and which is witnessed in the Church as that which is written in the olde and new Testament Iewel Pag. 194. M. Harding saith further If quietnesse of Conscience comme of the vvorde of God onely then had Abel no more quietnesse of conscience then vvicked restlesse Cain c. VVho vvould thinke that M. Harding bearing suche a countenance of Diuinitie vvould thus goe about to deceiue him false vvith a pointe of Sophistrie Harding Who would thinke that M. Iewel being pressed with a point whereunto he is not hable to make answere would not thus go about to deceiue his vnlearned Reader with a point of Sophistrie I praie thee reader take the paines to peruse what the Apologie saith what I haue said in my CoÌ„futation and what M. Iewel bringeth in the Defence touching this matter I desire no more but that thou read it and then iudge as thou seest cause It is an easy matter for M. Iewel when he hath made me to speake what he listeth to frame an answere accordingly But I must alwaies warne the reader not to beleue M. Iewel when so euer he reporteth either my wordes or any other mannes M. Ievv shifteth him selfe from Scripture to Goddes vvorde but to repaire to the Original Fot seldom is he founde cleere of the crime of falsifying And here he entwiteth me of Sophistrie wheras in deede he vseth the grossest sleight of Sophistrie him selfe He conueigheth him selfe from the Canonical Scriptures to Goddes worde Now I spake of the Scriptures and he answereth of Goddes worde Defence pag 191. Whereas it is said in the Apologie that
onely in the Canonical Scriptures of the olde and new Testament mannes harte can haue setled reste Against this I bring the example of Abel Noe Abraham Isaac and Iacob and of those holy menne that liued before the time of Ezdras when the Scriptures were loste and here I demaund whether their hartes neuer founde setled reste For if reste be founde onely in the Scriptures how could they haue reste when no booke nor parte of the Scriptures was written If it be true as the coÌ„trarie can not be proued that Moyses was the first that euer wrote any parte of the Scriptures shal we iudge that al the holy Patriarches that were before that time had no setled reste in their hartes CoÌ„fut fol. 82. b. If this be true then say I had good Abel no better reste in his harte then wicked restlesse Cain As I said in my Confutation so for ought that M. Iewel is hable to bring in his Defence I saie here againe what foolish and absurde Doctrine is this Now how dooth M. Iewel defende this Doctrine of his Apologie What is his answere I wish no more but that it be read and coÌ„ferred with my CoÌ„futation here to write out al againe it were too long He slincketh awaie from his own wordes and by change of wordes maketh of it a new question M. Harding saith he saith further If quietnes of coÌ„science come of the word of God only then had Abel no more quietnes of coÌ„science then wicked rest lesse Cain You belie M. Harding as your custome is he saith not so Let the booke be trial betwen vs bothe The question is not whether mannes harte findeth his setled reste only in Goddes worde the quietnesse of the conscience was not spoken of but whether that reste you spake of in the Apologie be found only in the Scriptures In your Apologie ye said yea in my Confutation I saie nay And now in your Defence your selfe also saie Nay Galat. 2. and so ye destroie what ye builded before and therby proue your selfe a preuaricatour asmuch to say a false hartlot For in that now ye coÌ„ueigh the matter from the Canonical Scriptures of the old and new TestameÌ„t vnto Gods word what is this but a secrete recantatioÌ„ of your former false tale If your said former tale were true and might be mainteined why do you so shifte your handes of it are you a shamed to be accoumpted a Recantour and yet recante in deede Who seeth not great diuersitie betwen Gods word and the written Scriptures These be more special that is more general By skipping from the writteÌ„ Scriptures to Gods worde you thought to set your selfe at hâ—â—re libertie And yet hauing taken your libertie as it were by breaking loose out of your chaine neuer so much as you seme to geue ouer your former saying and to recant so you proue not your later saying You allege S. Chrysostome saying In Gen. Ho. 2. Heb. 1. in Iob. 27. that God from the beginning spake 〈…〉 mâ—n by him selfe S. Paule that God in olde times spake mâ—ny waies and in sundrie sortes vnto the Fathers S. Hierome that the holy Scriptures be euerlasting though the wâ—â—ld shal haue an ende and that the thing which is promised by the holy Scriptures shal last for euer though the paper parchement and leaues of bookes shal be abolished Againe you allege S. Chrysostome saying 2. Cor. hom 18. that S. Paule calleth Preaching not written the Gospel But to what purpose al this How proueth this either that you auouched in your Apologie touching the setled rest of mannes harte to be founde only in the Canonical Scriptures of the old and new testament or which now you teache hauing reuoked your former doctrine that it is founde onely in Goddes worde Verely by ought that you haue said yet either in your Apologie or in your Defence you haue neither shewed where mannes harte shal finde the reste you spake of nor where we shal finde you so like a hunted foxe you starte from one thing to an other as it were from bushe to bushe from hole to hole So must they doo who seruing the Maister that you serue take vpon them to impugne the Catholique Doctrine and to defende Vntruthe Iewel Ibidem God him selfe in his ovvne person and presently spake vnto Abel c. Harding That would I confesse But he spake not to him by paper and incke And yet we are not now in worse case then the old fathers were And the word of God in their hartes whereof they could not doubte was euer much more cleere and plaine then that which is in our bookes whereof some men doubt many times Therefore we also in Christes Church haue as wel Gods word in our hartes as in our bookes whence also to wit out of our hartes we may resolue the doubtes which arise vpoÌ„ our bookes But let vs see this matter ripte vp more deeply Iewel Pag. 194. VVe speake not so precisely and nicely of Gods vvord vvritten in paper for so it is a corruptible creature and shal perish Harding Why then bind you vs in al cases to the written word and wil haue nothing to be beleued or done that is not written Iewel Pag. 195. Chrysostom saith Preaching not writteÌ„ Paul calleth the Gospel Homil. 18. in 2. Cor. Harding But we only haue preaching not written Preaching not vvritten for you wil haue nothing preached which is not also written Therefore we only haue the whole Gospel and you haue but one peece thereof Iewel Pag. 195. S. Antonie the Eremite vvas notably learned Aug. de Doctrinae Christ li. 1. in prologo and perfite in the scriptures Harding But without knowledge of letters as with S. Augustine your selfe must confesse This proueth that by the Scriptures the sense and meaning is vnderstanded and not the bare letter Now the meaning of the Scriptures not only tolerateth but conuinceth the vnbloudy Sacrifice of Christes body Transubstantiation praiers to the Saintes and praiers for the dead as diuers learned men haue declared at large Iewel The force and substance bothe of prayer and of meditation dependeth of reading Aug. de scalis paradisi .c. 11 Harding Not only of reading For then vnlearned persons should neither praie nor meditate nor haue Gods word Marke stil we denie not the written word but we say besides it there are vnwritten Verities Basil de Spiritu Sancto cap. 27. which thing you impudently denie Iewel Pag. 195. S. Basil reckeneth Traditions to be equal vvith the vvorde of God but that he vvrote those vvordes rather of zeale then of iudgement it 〈…〉 appeare bicause the traditions he nameth are forgotten euen in the Churche of Rome as not to kneele in the Churche vpon the sonnedaie Harding If bicause some Traditions be altered TraditioÌ„s or abolished they were not Gods word then the precepte of absteining from strangled meates Actor 15. is not Gods word bicause it is now abolished
be sure to liue for ouer the whiche no euil man can eate For if it could so be that he who continueth euil stil should eate the worde made fleash whereas it is the woorde and liuing bread it should not haue ben written whosoeuer eateth this bread shal liue for euer Origen fovvly corrupted by M. Ievv These are the true wordes of Origen But M. Iewel hath so mangled them that the sense is cleane altered For in steede of verbuÌ„ caro factum the worde made flesh he hath placed the body of Christ referring it to the Sacrament And whereas in Origen it is edere verbum factum carnem to eate the word made flesh he hath made exchange thereof into edere corpus Domini to eate the body of our Lorde And so whereas Origen meant that euil men can not eate spiritually and effectually the Diuinitie of Christ so as it dwelleth corporally in his flesh M. Iewel hath taught him to say that an euil man can not in the Sacrament eate Christes bodie Iewel Pag. 210. VVe say vvith S. Augustine the Sacrament is not our Lorde In Iohan. Tract 5â— but the bread of our Lord. Harding S. Augustin denieth not the SacrameÌ„t to be our Lord he hath no such wordes Howbeit we our selues would denie it in some sense For some tyme the Sacrament is taken for the forme of bread and wine and that in deede is not our Lord. Iewel 212. M. Harding might accompt not only seuen but also seuenteen sundry Sacramentes Harding I accompt onely seuen in such sense as the Churche properly taketh a Sacrament And how that is I shewed before Iewel pag. 213. Thus vve say it can not be proued that this number is so specially appointed As for the reasons of seuen seales seuen trumpettes seuen starres seuen golden Candelstikes and seuen eyes they are childish Harding We ground not our seuen Sacramentes vppon those similitudes Seuen Sacrametes August de Ciuit. Dei li. 11. c. 30. de doctrina Christiana lib. 2. cap. 16. Albeit if any man applie some of those matters to the seuen Sacramentes it is not childishely done seing S. Augustine confesseth that the Mysteries of numbers be great in the holy scriptures Iewel 213. Vnto euery Sacrament tvvo thinges are necessarie a sensible outvvard Element as in Baptisme VVater in our Lordes Supper Bread and VVine and the vvord of Institution Harding Thus farre we are agreed with you Iewel Matrimonie Order and penaunce haue the vvoorde of God but they haue no outvvard creature or Element Extrems Vnction and Confirmation haue neither vvoorde nor Element Harding To answere you herein M. Iewel I can not doo better Conci Florentin in vnione Armeniorum then to send you to the Councel of Florence and to the bookes wherein the order of our Sacramentes are conteined Where you shal finde that there lacketh neither the woorde of Institution nor conuenient Element It is yenough to vs that both by the woorde of God and by the perpetual doctrine of the Churche we are taught Act. 8. Iacob 5. Luc. 22. Ioan. 20. that these seuen are Sacramentes Confirmation is proued in the Actes of the Apostles Extreme Vnction in the Epistle of S. Iames Order in S. Luke and in S. Iohn Now baptisme and our Lordes supper your selfe graunt of penaunce and Matrimonie I haue said sufficiently already To be short we are in possession of seuen Sacramentes neither can you nor any man now aliue or that euer liued sith the Apostles shewe that euer the Church was without so many Sacramentes Impugne them when you list I doubt not but you shal be answered For that ye haue said hitherto is litle worthe and most thinges are lyes Iewel pag. 213. 214. De SacrameÌ„tâ— Eucharistia The auncient Fathers hauing occasion to intreate of purpose and specially hereof speake only of tvvo Sacramentes and so Bessarion namely saith Harding None of them al hath written purposely of al the Sacramentes of the Church but as occasion serued M. Ievvel belyeth the ancient Fathers touching the number of the SacrameÌ„tes Dionysius De Ecclesiast Hierarch TertulliaÌ„ lib. de resur carnis Cyprian lib. 2. Epist 1. ad StephanuÌ„ Bessarion de SacrameÌ„to Eucharistiae Bessarion belyed by M. Ievvel they now speake of two now of moe Of two they speake the more specially bicause the custome was to geue them both together to those that were of discretion Howbeit Dionysius Areopagita the most auncient of al intreateth of many moe as his booke de Ecclesiastica Hierarchia doth witnesse Tertullian besides Baptisme and the body of Christ nameth together with them Anointing and Signing and Imposition of handes And the Doctours which you bring affirme two but they denie not moe Yea S. Cyprian whom you cite in the first place can not be proued there to meane by both Sacramentes Baptisme and the supper of our Lorde Bessarion saith two were deliuered plainely in the Scriptures but he confesseth moe whiche are deliuered also in the Scriptures though not so plainely as the other two And he expressely nameth Chrismatis Sacramentum the Sacrament of Confirmation or of Bishopping Of the other Sacramentes in general he speaketh twise in the beginning of that Treatie Wherefore there is an impudâ—nt he included in your wordes where you saie that I haue in expresse wordes The onely two Sacraments of the Churche So that nowe we maie couple you with Beza â—â—o teacheth the same doctrine in his Confession and iuâ—â—ly cal you bothe false teachers Iewel 214. Al these thinges not vvithstanding the Tridentine Councel concludeth seuen Sacramentes Harding So it ought and maie easily doo M. Iewel any thing that you haue yet brought notwithstanding You proue in dede that there are two Sacramentes but that there are no moe you haue not brought so much as one apparent authoritie Sauing that of Bessarion who neuerthelesse is vtterly against you For he beleued and taught that there were seuen Sacramentes Bessarion De Sacramento Eucharistiae as by that Treatie it maye wel appeare But what should I do good reader should I now proue that there are seuen Sacramentes Certainely it were easy for me so to doo and to set out a booke of that Argument farre greater then M. Iewels is And that may wel appeare true by that Ruardus Tapper Cardinal Hosius and Petrus a Soto with diuers other learned menne haue done in this behalfe I am sure M. Iewel wil not denie but I were hable to english at the lest that which I should find in their Latin bookes And yet therein standeth his whole shewe For in deede he doth litle els but english that which the Germaines and Geneuians bookes haue The 7. SacrameÌ„tes proued out of S. Augustine Augustiniana CoÌ„fessio The vntruthes and scoffes that he addeth of his owne though they be many in number yet doo they not greatly increase the bulke of his volume Besides al other Catholique bookes there hath one benne set forth
Episcopus But whether he beareth that name of the one or of the other it maketh no great matter If it be so it remaineth that you can tel vs in what parte of the worlde whether in Asia in Aphrica or in Europa or in the new founde landes there be any place of that name I thinke you must be faine to looke ouer al the Geographical tables and bookes you haue and borrowe some of your felowes too and put on your spectales of the best sight and yet for al that I warrant you not finde it except it be in Vtopia Wel M. Iewel that you maie vnderstande that the more occasion you geue me to seeke the more I finde matter of Vntruthe and ignorance to charge you withal I tel you in deede that you haue named Ioannes Camotensis in steede of Ioannes Carnotensis if you haue respecte to his Bishoprike Ioannes Camotensis must be Ioānes Sarisburiensis vvho vvas Bishop of Chartres in France and thereof in Latine called Carnotensis Defence pag. 613. But if you wil haue his Countrie signified then must you cal him Ioannes Salesberiensis or Sarisburiensis choose whether as you haue done Pag. 132. I might saie that this Ioannes Sarisburiensis was a Bishop in al respectes farre better to vse your owne wordes not then Leontius Hippolytus or Clemens as it liketh you to skoffe at those learned and blessed Bishoppes but then Iohn Iewel of Sarisburie if you naming your selfe Iohn of Sarisburie could iustly be accompted any Bishop at al. But betwen a Bishop and no Bishop in this behalfe there can be no comparison This is not the first time that you haue alleged your witnesses by a blinde gheasse hearesaie or reporte not hauing seene their bookes nor knowing what the Authours were You can saie much by rote and prou◠litle by skil as in many other places but here moste euidently it appeareth For if you had knowen that your Ioannes Camotensis is the selfe same Ioannes Sarisburiensis otherwise named Carnotensis for that he was in his time Bishop of Chartres in Fraunce Pag. 132. named Carnotum in Latine whiche you haue alleged before out of his woorke entitled Polycraticon but neuer declaring out of what booke thereof being eight bookes in the whole or what Chapter bicause yee neuer readde the place in the Authour him selfe but receiued it by the waie of almes of frier Bale Flacius Illyricus or some suche other if I saie you had knowen so muche as you might if you had taken the paine to peruse the Polycration your selfe you would neuer haue made so muche a doo about so smal a matter Now for your better instruction and fuller satisfaction maie it please you to vnderstand that he whiche is misnamed in Epitome Bibliothecae Gesneri Ioannes Camotensis is in Partitionibus eiusdem Gesneri tituli 5. fol. 95. rightly called Ioannes Carnotensis And that your Ioannes Camotensis is by you blindly mistaken for Ioannes Carnotensis it euidently appeareth by the sentences alleged by your owne Necromantical Doctor Cornelius Agrippa and by an other of the Spritish sort of your gospel Paulus Scalichius in his railing Libel De Choraea Monachorum Paul Scalichius and by lying Illyricus in Catalogo testium veritatis which are adscribed by Baudy Bale 2. Centur. Scriptorum Britanniae pag. 212. too Ioannes Carnotensis out of his Polycraticon And in deed they are there to be founde albeit not to that purpose that al the packe of your holy brethren haue vntruely alleged them for And therefore neuer a one of you al hath quoted either number of the booke or Chapter where any of those sentences are to be founde lest your falsehed might haue benne espied and that by reading the whole discourse of the places your euil purpose should haue benne nothing furthered but much hindred But if it wil please either you or the Reader to peruse the 16. chapter of the 5. booke and the 24. of the 6. booke of the sayd Polycraticon you for your parte shal haue occasion to vnderstand your errour and folie and the Reader for his parte not to be deceiued with your blinde reporte Pag. 51. Cusanus sovvly and ignorantly belied of M. Iew. You beare your Reader in hand pag. 51. that Nicolaus Cusanus wrote a booke entituled de Auctoritate Ecclesiae Concilij supra contra Scripturam Of the Authoritie of the Churche and Councel aboue and against the Scripture And as though you had seene the booke and wel perused it you referre your Reader thereunto in 14. mo places of this your pretensed Defence as it shal appeare to him A false forged booke odiously attributed by M. Ievv to Cardinal Cusanus in xv Sundri◠places that wil take the paines to turne to these pages here truely quoted 53. 55. 78. 157. 331. 438. 439. 474. 558. 593. 665. 674. 704. 724. Now M. Iewel notwithstanding al these quotations of yours if you be hable to shewe vs any booke of Cusanus so entituled either in print or in autenticke written hande I wil saie that you wil proue your selfe a truer man then euer I tooke you to be But bicause this maie litle moue you I wil more adde on the contrary side if you be not hable to shewe the same after so many allegations out thereof it wil consequently folowe that you are a shamelesse man I might saie a false harlot If a man were disposed to dally with you in a matter most certaine as you vse to doo with others when you thinke you haue gotten any smal shadowe of some counterfeit aduantage for an vndoubted example whereof I referre the readers to the page 414. he might perchaunce dash you quite out of countenance and deface you for euer yea euen before your frendes and the flattering vpholders of your dooinges which would greeue you at the harte Now might one chalenge you and saie M. Iewel if you be hable to shew any booke or halfe booke oration or epistle or any litle pamphlet whereunto Cusanus hath geuen this title then wil the Catholiques graunt you more then euer you were hable to gete yet at their handes If you haue al the bookes in your studie either of your owne or of other menne that you allege then bring the booke with this title forth and you shal discharge your selfe of a most impudent lie and sclaunder And if you be hable so to doo then I praie you let it be proclaimed by you with your booke in your hand at Powles crosse as you haue done at other times to your worship forsooth that al the worlde maie beare witnesse thereof Verely M. Iewel it appeareth that you haue readde more then you vnderstand or at least then you haue liste to vnderstand and yet you allege more then euer you readde in the bookes whereunto you referre vs as it maie wel be proued by this present example and many other the like You maie beshrewe him to whom you gaue so light credite herein Couet not praise by