Diuinity in his head or Christianity in his hart or Sobryetie in his tongue would haue accused Catholiks for esteeming the Ipsa dixit of the Church as much as the Pythagorians did the Ipse dixit of their Maister Why should not this Ipsa the Mother of Christians the Spousesse of the Holy Ghost this Pillar and Foundation of truth this daughter of God the Father washed with the bloud of his sonne that she might in her doctrine haue no blemish of errour Why should not her word I say be more esteemed of by her children then the saying of Pythagoras a Pagan Philosopher was with his Schollers I perceiue you do loue more then belieue the Feminine Gender perchance you suspect in the Church the fault you lay vpon that Sexe (o) Counters p. 52. with some ryme let them say with what reason Mulier nihil scit nisi quod ipsa cupit This makes you loath to submit your Iudgment vnto Ipsa dixit But you may be sure that the Dixit or Saying of the Church is neuer (p) vt maneat vobi cum in aeternū Ioan. 14. without the dixit of Gods spirit her Maister She hath the warrant of her Spouse that he will make her wordes good he that heareth you heareth me (q) Luc 10. to which her Commission he subscribeth with a dreadfull Curse He that heareth not the Church let him be to thee as an Heathen (r) Luc. 18. Oh what glorious Fathers and Doctors could I name famous in former ages for Sanctity and learning that submitted their Iudgment to the sayings of the Church put their fingers to their mouth when she did gaine-say that they thought true prostrating their learned penns to be euer at the deuotion of her Censure How highly did they esteeme her Dixit her Iudgmēt her Word Let S. Augustine speake (l) de Baptis cont Donatist l. 17. c. 33. vel 53. I dare with the conscience of a secure voyce affirme saith he what in the Gouerment of our Lord Iesus Christ is established by consent of the vniuersall Church And againe (m) de Baptism cōt Donatist l. 4. c. 6 If he say something that doth say We follow what we receaue from the Apostles how much more strongly do we say we follow that which the Church did euer hold what no disputation could ouerthrow (n) Contra epist Fundam l. 5. what a Generall or plenarie Councell hath defined Thus S. Augustine doe you see what a Pythagorean Dixit what vncontrollable Authoritie he granteth to the Church 6. As litle Iudgment or Piety do you shew in your iest at the Ladies A. B. C as though the authoritie of the Church were not the Alphabet and Christ-Crosse-Row in which all Christiās ought and all ancient Christians did learne to reade and belieue the Scriptures The forenamed S. Augustine the Phenix of witts the Mirour of learning did he not learne in this booke Ego vero saith he Euangelio non crederem nisi me Ecclesiae commoueret Auctoritas Truly I would not belieue the Ghospell did not the Churches authoritie moue me vnto it Why should any Lady or Lord Maister of Arts or Doctor disdaine to spell the Ghospell of Christ by the same letters such learning sanctity vsed 8. Shall I tell you your protestant Ladies (*) Has linguas qui nesciunt saepe necessariò hallucinantur VVhitak de sacra scriptura pag. 523. A. B. C For the old Testament those Hebrew Characters now you begin to learne (o) Counters p. 7. and the Greeke letters for the new which if they be ignorant of I assure them according to your (p) Nullū nos editionem nisi Haebraicū in vetere Graecā in nouo Testamēto authenticam facimus VVhitak controu 1. q. 2. p. 128. Churches Principles they cannot reade so much as a sillable that they may be certaine is Scripture They may reade the English translation you will say that is Scripture I deny the same to be Scripture except it be conformable to the Originall wherof those haue no meanes to be sure that cannot read nor vnderstand the two aforenamed learned tongues in which they were primarily written If you say they must belieue it vpon the word of your Church (q) Multi nesciunt literas tamēfidēsanā retinent expraedicatione pastorum Whitak de sacra scriptura p. 588. you bring them back vnto ipsa dixit and make them reade the letters of Christianitie in your Ministers horne booke Were it not better to stick to the Catholicke Ladies A. B. C. that fayre Christs-Crosse rowe which our famous auncestors did learne Cleaue to the authority of that Church which begun in the Apostles by perpetuall Succession of Bishops is deriued vnto this age * Illam Scripturā dicis non esse quam esse dicit vniuersa Ecclesia ab Apostolicis sedibus vsque ad praesentes Episcopos certa successione perducta l. 28. cont Faust c. 2. 8. But suppose one would be scholler to your Church hath she so much skill or any warrant not to erre as we may be sure she will not teach vs amisse Your selues say (r) The whole militant Church may erre as euery part therof Fulke in his answere to a Counterfayte Cath. p. 86. that she may erre and teach vs damnable doctrine For which when at the day of iudgment we shal be called to accompt to say our lessons we may be laughed to skorne loose the eternall reward and be punished for euer As it is insolent madnes to contradict the custome of the true Church (ſ) August Epist 118. ad Ianuarium so is it desperate madnes to follow the directions of such a Church which though we religiously belieue exactly obserue euen vnto death yet may we be perpetually damned But the Ladies of your Church learne forsooth of the spirit they trust to Ipse dixit who will teach them which is the Scripture They are the sheep of Christ and know his voyce from that of strangers These are your Ministers faire promises yet I dare giue them my word though they haue the best spirit that euer possessed any man of your Church notwithstanding they may erre damnably mistake Scripture think that to be true translation which is indeed erroneous Had not Luther the first fruites of the Protestants spirit yet he erred most grossely that euen Zwinglius his fellow-witnes against the Pope doth giue this testimony against him (t) tom 2. l. de sacrament p. 412. Thou Luther doest corrupt the word of God thou art seene to be a manifest corrupter of the holy Scriptures 9. What translation or spirit of your Church may your Ladyes trust if Luther be soe corrupt as this your faithful witnes doth depose I see no remedy for them if they meane to be saued frō the deluge of errours but to fly to your Arke of Noe printed at Venice (u) Counters p. 8. wherein you were shipped when my booke came to
and iust Key Wherefore let your Minstrell whosoeuer he was that piped you this Key to sing and play S. Augustines doctrine vpon Lyra's ditties let him haue the reward your ridiculous excuse doth deserue to be thought Asinus ad Lyram 30. And truely this Father doth so often cleerly and peremptorily auouch the Charter of the Machabees which confirmeth Purgatory to be sacred that I wonder any man that had read his workes as you would seeme to haue done could vndertake to proue the contrary which attempt would haue no other issue then you haue brought yours vnto Shame and Contempt When he makes the Catalogue of Canonicall bookes (t) l. 2. de Doctrin Christian c. 8. doth he not ranke these with the rest That no man can thinke them by his list lesse Canonicall then the other did not this Father subscribe to the Councell of Carthage where those bookes were canonized as euen M. Crashaw doth graunt (v) Serm. p. 80. with whome I might ioyne Doctor Field Reynolds Perkins and many other Protestants (x) See the Protest Apolog. tract 1. sect 10. subdiuis 11. who yield vnto these bookes the warrāt of the Councell for their Sacred authority 31. I can but pittie you who write your learned lynes with Ministers notes before you whose lyes when they are once in your bookes you will be angrie they be not thought yours such is your assertion (z) Lett. pag. 63. opposit to your best Authors that the Councell of Carthage did not admit the Machabees into the Canon in proofe whereof you say that our owne Canus doth confesse that had they beene so ratified it had bene neyther for Gregory nor for any other to haue afterwards doubted of them Shall I tell you the plaine truth This is not the testimonie of Canus that learned Diuine but of Canis your Snarling Curre Canus hath in that place two sayings so mainely opposite to both yours as no Logitian can deuise more perfect contradiction by the rules of Art 32. First he saith expresly (a) l. 2. de loc Theol c. 9. hanc nostram conclusionem docet Concilium tertium Carthaginense This Conclusion that the Machabees are Canonicall is taught by the third Councell of Carthage which saith he though but a Prouinciall Councell was confirmed by Leo the fourth and by the Councell of Trullum This is contradictorie to your first assertion that the Councell did not admit those bookes and against your other that had they admitted them our Gregory might not haue doubted of their Authority in that very place and paragraph you cite he sayth b Id modò in dubium vocare non licet quod D. Gregorio Eusebio reliquis licuit aliquando dubitare It was lawfull for Gregorie Eusebius and others to doubt therof that being but a Prouinciall Councell but now we may not doubt therof after a Generall indubitate definition of the Church Can East be more opposite to West light vnto darknes then the sayings of Canus found in his booke vnto those you report as his Do you thinke to win creditt by your Cur that gredily licks vp all manner of foule and false stuffe from Ministers trenchers And whereas your Snarler saith (c) pag. 36. that S. Augustine granting the Iewes did not admit the Machabees held it small reason for after-Ages to intertaine them in highest esteeme I wonder if that be true you say that you can cite S. Augustine without a Prompter that you had not in promptu at your fingers end the known saying of that Father wherwith he knockes this puppie on the head not the Iewes but Church of Christ saith he libros Machabaeorum pro Canonicis habet (d) l. 18. de Ciuit. c. 36. doth intertaine the Machabees for Canonicall bookes which is the highest esteeme any writings can haue 33. The same doth S. Augustine teach in the testimony by you cited in his bookes against the Epistle of Gaudentius (e) l. 1. c. 31. which I said in my Treatise made against you His wordes are these The Iewes do not admit the booke of Machabees as they do the Law Prophetts and the Psalmes yet is it profitablie intertayned by the Church if it be read and heard soberlie These wordes sayd (f) Ouerth pag. 135. I signifie that the Christian Church admitteth these bookes as Canonicall euen as the Lawe and Prophets were Canonicall with the Iewes And though this my inference doth so displease you that you say no sober setled braine will stumble vpon such a sense (g) pag. 35. yet truly I see no reason why any man should thinke you were sober that stumble vpon such a Censure For by that testimony it appeareth that the Christians gaue that Authority to those bookes which the Iewes did not grant vnto them that the Church did set them vp in the throne from which the Synagogue had kept them which was the Imperiall throne of Sacred Authority otherwise S. Augustines opposition the Iewes did not but the Church doth were vaine For the Iewes did admit the Machabees into the number of Hagiographicall bookes which were read for edification of the People So that if the Christian Church doth admit them into higher Authorities then the Iewes that must needes be the highest of all seeing euen the Iewes did place them in the degree next the highest 34. You rage saying (h) pag. 35. that I infer S. Augustine to speake against his mynde who neuer meant that Canonicall Scripture is receaued with a Si which is necessarie to be acknowledged though it fall out by default to be Sapor mortis ad mortem But neither did I nor S. Augustine say that the bookes are receiued with a Si but that the bookes receaued are profitable to them that read them with a Si. The bookes saith he are receaued profitably if soberlie they be read So that the receauing of the bookes is absolute but the books absolutely receaued do not profit the Readers without a Si sobriè except they be read with sobrietie Had you read S. Augustines wordes with S. Augustines Si you would not so grossely haue missed the finger of his and my meaning Are not thinges most diuine and heauenlie taken without a Si very dangerous and hurtfull The most sacred Sacrament of the Altar the fountaine of grace doth not benefite the soule without a Si dignè except it be worthilie taken which wanting it is Sapor Mortis ad Mortem 35. And if when a man is vnworthie of that Celestiall food the Church may keep the same from him why may she not also keep the Scriptures translated into vulgar tongues from People whome she doth prudently thinke will not make benefit thereof Nor haue stomack to digest so strong and solid meat except it be first masticated by the Preachers mouth Why may she not examine their sufficiencie for the one as she doth their worthines for the other yet you say (i) pag. 35. that S. Augustine neuer dreamed of
such a drunken Church as ours seemes to be by eloyning the Scriptures in the vulgar tongue from common people least it should hurt thē I might wonder that you should call a Church so Ancient Famous and Catholike as the Roman is Drunken for a practice so full of wisdome and circumspection as this is did I not know that the custome of men that are tipled is when they stagger themselues to thinke that Churches and the very heauens reele about them I will not say you wrote in darke seeing you affirme that like Demosthenes you endighted by the lampe (k) pa. 62. Rather will I thinke that your single lampe doubled in your eye which happeneth to them that loue wine when they haue their Cup in their hand Vertigine caelum Ambulat geminis exurgit mensa lucernis 36. In this case perchance you were when you wrote (l) let pag. 42. that Purgatorie is backed neither by any expresse testimonie of holy Writ nor any exemplarie proofe besides Hobgoblins Rawheades Bloudybones Night-ghostes which the world many yeares since hath forgotten to belieue And againe with as litle sobrietie you say (m) let p. 79. vnto vs had it not bene for your Grand Patriarkes S. Homer S. Plato S. Virgil you would neuer haue knowne how to haue set your Compasse for the discouerie of your new-fond land Can your Church be thought sober that permitteth you to pen such staggering and staring exaggerations as these For to say nothing of S. Cyril S. Chrysostome S. Damascene S. Gregorie S. Bernard other Fathers cited for Purgatorie in that learned Treatise which you would seeme to answere whose plaine testimonies for this doctrine may seeme to haue bene Nightghosts in your way which so scarred you as you durst not come nigh them with an answere I hope your pen is not so farre past Modestie as you dare tearme the Doctors marble-pillers of Gods Church Rawheads Hobgoblins or Heathens How happie were Queene Elizabeths Ghost might she enioy the euerlasting companie of those Blessed and neuer see your Heathenish Saints Theseus Aristides Plato Hercules and others Zuinglius tom 2 pecc origin fol. 118. et in exposit fidei Christian fol. 159. whom your great Patriarke Zwinglius admitteth into your Protestant heauen 37. To omit I say this proofe by Fathers which noe learned deuine will denie to be exemplar what say you to the Machabees and the whole Church of God in those daies that did practice prayers for soules in Purgatorie Is not he a Rawhead that condēneth soe manie Saintes both before and after the cōming of Christ into Hell That dareth call that the doctrine of Diuells which is taught in bookes indighted by the holy Ghost if we beleeue S. Augustine With whom I could ioyne other Fathers noe lesse auncient then he canonizing the same bookes would the shortnesse of this Letter permit me But his testimonie may suffice alone which bringeth with it the authoritie of the Church in his dayes For how would he intertaine the Machabees wherof some Fathers doubted but vpon the warrant of the Church without whose word he doth professe that he would not beleeue any of the Ghospells (n) l. contr Epist Fundam c. 5. And seeing ancient Councells do curse and say Anathema (o) Si quis dixerit alias Scripturas praeter eas quas Ecclesia Catholica recipit in authoritate habendas anathema fit Cōcil Toletan 7. in confess fidei to any that shall belieue any booke to be Scripture besides those that ar admitted by the Catholick Church seeing also that to intertaine bookes as Canonicall which indeed are not is more daūgerous preiudiciall to the Church then to reiect those that are truly sacred this supposed who that hath any reuerēd cōceipt of this learned Father will doubt but he had for the Canon he citeth the warrant of the Catholike Church Is it not credible that some Fathers who deny these bookes were ignorant of the Churches warrant rather then S. Augustine so rash and presumptuous as to Canonize them without it For how can he be excused from great temeritie if herin he erred Yea doth he not deserue to be thought a deluder of the Church if she did not indeed intertaine those bookes which he doth constantly avouch she did From which imputation the blessed Saint was so free as euen Caluin (p) l. 3 instit c. 3 §. 10. l. 4. c. 14. §. 26. doth allow him the stile of the best and most faithfull witnesse of Antiquitie 38. You grieue and deplore your hard hap (q) Counters p. 28. that I should endight you for the least wrong done to that Marble-piller that glorious Saint that euer-admired Augustine to whose heauenly Meditations sweet sayings and learned discourses I owe say you more then halfe of my selfe Did you owe indeed to this Father one inch of your life you would not scornefully reiect his authoritie as you doe else-where saying As if our saith were to be pinned on Augustines sleeue (r) Lett. pag. 71. you would not make that the doctrine of Diuells which he did depose was written by a pen ledd by the hand of infallible Truth you would not tearme Purgatorie which you cannot deny but he taught a Satanicall Figment (ſ) Lett. 75. euacuating the Crosse of Christ 39. As for Wrong offered to this Saint none perchance euer did him greater then you haue done in your Letter writing in this manner of him (t) Lett. pag. 70. We find say you that the entyre loue of his mother Monica and other his deare friends made him somewhat too forward in this point And why may not this be one of these things of which he speaketh ad Ianuariū (u) Epist 119. c. 19. There are many things which I dare not reprooue as I would Thus you wrote where you first contradict what now you write in your Snarle calling him glorious euer-admired marble Pillar whom your former words make a wauering Reed beaten with light blastes either of feare or of affection into damnable and diabolicall errours Secondly you make him guilty of that fault which your Cato tearmeth shamefull (x) Turpe est auctori cum culpa redarguat ipsum of sharply reprehēding in others the sinne of superstitious deuotion to the dead wherein he was you say to forward himself Thirdly you offer this Saint intollerable wrong in saying that he did dislike indeed the custome of praying for the dead but durst not reproue it out of feare to (z) Propter nonnullarum vel sanctarum turbulentarū personarū scandala deuitanda offend and giue scandall For how could this his forbearance not be damnable if the custome of praying for the soules in Purgatory be iniurious to Christes blood as you say it is 40. And suppose that feare of men might diminish the sinfulnes of his omission in not reprouing so wicked a custome yet no excuse can couer his impiety in defending and
chiefest Bishops or Patriarks of the East were either Authours or their fautors This was the cause that often the Orthodoxall Bishops of Greece in defence of truth were forced to fly for succour to the Romaine as did Athanasius and Paulus the one Patriarke of Alexandria the other of Constantinople and others (h) Sozom. l. 1. c. 7. To end which dissentions by his Authority Supreme vnder God vpon Earth ouer the flock of Christ he hid procure that Councells might be called in Greece the discipline of the Church requiring that Councells meete examine the cause and punish offenders where the fault was committed Soe that the cause why those Councells were kept in Greece not in Rome was the Purity of the one neuer falling into Heresie and the infelicity of the other neuer to be without inuentours of such monsters 15. This sinceritie likewise of Doctrine as Ruffinus noteth (i) Ruffin in expositione Symboli is the cause that the Church of Rome did neuer add any word or syllable to the Creed but kept the same entyre without addition which saith he happened not in other Churches because other Churches hauing had heresies sprong vp within their owne bowells did add some wordes to the Creed to crosse and meet with such errours which the Romane neuer did nor had need to doe seeing no heresie had neuer beginning in it Thus Ruffinus wherefore seing the Roman Church caused those Councells to be held in Greece confirmed the same afterwards and their Creeds to be receaued through the whole Church who cā deny but we had those foundations of Faith more principally from the Roman then any other Church the Principall Sea from whence saith (k) l. 4. ep 8. S. Cyprian Priestly dignitie one great Pillar and Foundation of Christianity did flow Vnto which Tertullian (l) Praescr c. 31. Irenaeus (m) l. 3. c. 3. Optatus (n) l. 2. cōt Parmen Epiphanius (o) Haeres 27. S. Augustine (p) Epist 165. being vrged by Heretikes did fly as vnto the head deriving Scriptures Creeds and all other Ecclesiasticall traditions from them Wherefore I must thinke that many sick and sory feathers were in that Ministers head that caused you to call them rather Grecian then Roman Plumes though so light a word as Plumes applyed to so graue matters as Scriptures Creeds and Councells doth sauour of the leuity of your phrase 16. This leuity you shew in the prayses you giue to the Church no lesse then in the reproaches Thus you preach Who is he say (q) Lett. p. 67. you that saith not of the true Church with Augustine Non parua Ecclesiae auctoritas well doth her Modesty well doth her fidelitie deserue honorable esteeme she taketh not vpon her to controule the holy Scripture her Mother from whom she drew her first breath she openeth not her mouth till her mother hath deliuered her mynde she commeth not of her owne head with any sleeuelesse arrant Thus you discourse describing the Spouse of Christ and Mother of Christians as a mannerly young Mayd brought vp in Luthers schoole You demaund who is he that doth not say with S. Augustine Great is the authority of the Church And yet you your self are the Man who call that Authority of the Church which S. Augustine in that very sentence reuerenceth as great and venerable idle and sleeuelesse like the Butcher that called for his knife he had in his mouth These are S. Augustines wordes (r) De cura pro mortuis c. 1. We read in the Books of Machabees that Sacrifice was offered for the dead but if this were no where read in the old Scriptures yet ther is no small authoritie of the vniuersall Church which shineth in this custome Behold S. Augustine calleth Doctrines deliuered by the Church without expresse Scripture great shining which you reuile and contemne 17. Thus you contradict the saying of S. Augustine whilst you would seeme to applaud it yet is not this contradiction so witlesse as is your Assertion impious that Doctrines and Decrees of the Church not deliuered in Scriptures are sleeuelesse the perpetuall virginity of the B. Mother after her sacred birth of the Sonne of God you seeme so to beleeue that you would stop your eares against any that should dispute therof (ſ) Lett. p. 39. but where is this written in Scripture what is it but a perpetuall traditiō of Gods Church S. Augustine sayth (t) de Baptism cont Donatist l. 2. c. 7. that it cannot be clearly proued out of Scripture that Heritikes returning to the Church should not be rebaptized yet the Church hath forbidden the same Shall we tearme this prohibition sleeuelesse That these and these bookes be Canonicall and the other Apocriphall where it is taught in Scripture Now he doth not see that Scriptures are the chiefest points of our Faith contayning the fountaine and as it were principles of faith Doe but read your learned Authour Hierome Zanchius who will giue a newer tune then that your Minister piped vnto you That Authour famous in your Cōgregations teacheth (u) Tom. 4. l. 1. de lege Dei that diuers vnwritten traditions concerning doctrine and manners are in the Church which are not only profitable (x) Non solum vtiles Ecclesiae sed ferè necessariae saith he but in a manner necessary which haue their beginning from the holy Ghost which we must reuerence and obey else we contemne the Authority of the Church which is a thing saith he very displeasing vnto God how then doe you preach that the Church neuer openeth her mouth till Mother Scripture haue deliuered her mind 18. I confesse that this your Authour goeth a step backward saying that these vnwriten traditions are not of equall authoritie with the written word (z) Paris authoritatis non sunt cum verbo in sacris literis reuelato but therin he doth cleerely contradict himselfe For the Canon of the Scripture being as he confesseth an vnwritten tradition how can any thing contayned in Scripture be more certaine then some vnwritten traditions are Can any man be more certaine of a truth proued out of Scripture then he is that his proofes are indeed Scripture One may see this doth imply in termes Wherefore great cause had your Doctour Field (a) Of the Church p. 238. to grant that Papists haue good reason to equall their Traditions to the written word if they can proue any such vnwritten verities and his proofe is pregnant because not the writing giueth things their authoritie but the worth and credit of him that deliuereth them though by word and liuely voyce alone 19. Now put these two sayings of your two Doctours togeather and make an argument for traditions let Doctour Field giue the Maior vnwritten verities can they be proued are equall to the written word let Zanchius add the Minor but diuers vnwritten verities and traditions profitable and in a manner necessary for the Church both
Hell but that in your Counter-snarle you quarrell with me about the first conuersion of the English Nation vnto the Christian religion which I sayd in my Treatise was performed by S. Gregory and those holy Monks he sent you spend two Paragraphs (k) The 13. and 14. in confutation of what I said which discourse you terme the pulling of a Crow (l) pag. 46. being indeed a heap of vntruths pluckt out of M. Io. White of Eccles his booke a Minister not so white in name as black for his false dealing as may partly appeare by what shal be discouered in the next Chapter you hauing copied in a manner all you haue written about this matter out of him (m) VVay to the Church digess 49. with little varietie either in sense or words where also Purgatory shal be freed from the imputations of an heathnish superstition licentious doctrine you charge vpon it (n) Lett. pag. 79. and 42. seeing that in the confessed chief Patron therof S. Gregory it triumphed ouer the Paganisme of our Nation and brought them not only to the knowledg of the true God but also to the profession of most holy life as shal be proued THE SIXTH CHAPTER THAT S. GREGORY THE Pretended greatest Patron of Purgatory by the Monkes he sent FIRST Cōuerted the English Nation vnto Christianity the now Catholike Romane Faith Where also the Falshood of other Ministers namly of M. White and M. Mason about this poynt are refuted THE Occasion of this Encounter was an insulting Reprehension I found in your Letter (a) pa. 92. did suppose was suggested vnto you by some Minister against vs that in handling Controuersies we are willfully peruerse that we still persist in our former opinions notwithstanding your strong Protestant arguments that haue bin brought against them You giue example concerning the first Conuersion of our Country into the Christian faith which I did except against in my Treatise as offering vs therin exceeding great wrong And because you indighted me of fraud (b) Counters p. 55. that I coniure your words togeather to raise my owne sense I will first set downe what you writ and I obiected against you that the Reader may see whether I chāged your meaning or no. 2. Hauing ended your scripturall arguments against Purgatory you insult ouer vs in this māner (c) Lettr. p. 91. 92. Why should I hope to satisfie you in this as if I could vrge that which hath not bin long since propounded to this purpose What is it that can gayne assent in those that are willfully peruerse To giue you one instance for all how often hath it bin demonstratiuely proued that setting some friuolous cerimonies aside our Country of Britany was no whit behoulding to proud and insolent Augustine your Great Gregoryes Delegate for any matter of faith Gildas his testimony hath bin vrged who liued before Augustines comming that the Brittans receiued the Christian faith from the beginning Baronius hath tould you that S. Peter was here Theodoret that S. Paul Nicephorus that Simon Zelotes and some that Ioseph of Arimathia did plant the faith amongst vs. Many forcible inducemēts haue bin produced that euen in the primitiue Church Christianity harboured in this isle These instances and many more haue bin againe and againe renewed without any verified contradiction and yet as if it had bin a matter which you neuer heard of before you would as in all other pointes make vs in this follow you vp and downe wearying the world with a Circular discusse bobbing your credulous Ladyes with these Syrenicall insinuations These are your true wordes which I excepting against complained of your trencher-Minister in this sort 3. They make (d) Ouerthrow part 2. c. 8 p. 318. 319. the credulous Knight say that when we speake of the conuersion of England by S. Gregories meanes we weary the world and bob our credulous Ladyes with a circular discusse as though we had neuer heard of Gildas his testimony that the Brittās receaued the Christiā faith frō the beginning nor that Baronius hath tould that S. Peter was here Theodoret that S. Paul Nicephorus that Simon Zelotes and some that Ioseph of Arimathia did plant the faith amongst vs Thus the Knight writeth by their suggestion by which it is cleare that he neuer read the book he seemeth to speake against nay he doth not know so much as the subiect and argument therof to wit Of the three Conuersions of England which book the Ladies if they haue it at hand as he seemeth to cōplaine that it is still on theyr Cushions cannot look into without seing the falshood of this saying and how the trencher-Schoolmaisters of the Knight would bob them also with a plaine vntruth as they haue done him 4. For that book taketh notice of and handleth largly Gildas his testimony declaring the meaning therof to be that in the time of Tiberius Christ appeared to the world not that Christan faith then entred into Brittayne which is altogeather improbable seing Tiberius liued but fiue yeares after Christes Resurrection in which time the Apostles eyther went not out of Iury or did not preach but to the Iewes only nemini loquentes verbū nisi solùm Iudaeis as S. Luke saith in the Actes (e) Act. 11. v. 19. That S. Peter was here that Treatise doth take notice of and bringeth diuers arguments to confirme the same vrging his preaching as the first conuersion of England though other Apostles and Disciples might help thereunto Neither doe I thinke any English Christian is so auerted from the Roman Sea that he will scorne this Kingdome should be the Conuertite of that great Apostle though the first Roman Bishop These thinges in our bookes we take notice of and examine them more exactly then Protestants haue done 5. But to what purpose are these brought by Protestants The Brittons receiued the Christian faith some of them at the least in tyme of the Apostles vnder S. Peter the first Roman Bishop the whole Realme openly and publickly vnder Eleutherius Pope in the second age by Fugatius and Damianus sent from Rome in King Lucius his time which Syr Edward maketh no mention of what is this against the third conuersion of the English Nation which long after this time being heathen hauing expelled the Brittons began to inhabite the Realme who the Brittons neglecting them were conuerted by S. Augustines meanes sent by Gregory Pope as that Treatise proueth and all Histories of our Countrey doe witnes and euen Protestants themselues doe confesse as is proued in the first Chapter and first section of the learned Treatise of the Protestāts Apology for the Roman Church and that it was conuerted to the now Catholike Roman faith Thus do Ministers bob Syr Edward making him print such stuffe either false or impertinent with the losse of his honour which I dare say had he seene the booke he would neuer haue done against his conscience and knowledge 6. This I
then wrote to which you make this answere First should I say you (f) pag. 47. graunt all that I neuer read that maister-worke of the three Conuersions I see not what inconuenience will ensue Is there no better imployment of my time then the perusall of that Arch-fugitiues lines Or hath none besides of their faction beaten this bush or harped on the same string Or am I in conscience bound to put the seale of my assent to whatsoeuer F. Persons did write Thus you but who doth not see that this your answere is impertinent and your lynes fugitiues from the matter in hand I did not accuse you for not reading F. Persons lynes nor for otherwise imploying your tyme nor for not giuing assent to what he wrote I charged your Letter with belying and slaundering his and our manner of proceeding in that point of controuersy concerning the conuersion of the English I wondred at your saying that we deale in this matter as if we had neuer so much as heard of the conuersion of the Brittons in the Apostles tyme which I proued our Authors namely the three Conuersions to make most particuler mention of I did presuppose that had you perused that booke you would not haue vttered so notorious an vntruth nor haue termed that Treatise where this point is so substantially handled not any instance you could mention being omitted therin a circular discusse or a guilding of old weather-beaten obiections with new glistring wordes 7. I know it is to be inexcusable rashnes for one to giue a proud and peremptory Censure of bookes he neuer perused to excuse you from which imputation I sought to make your Minister the authour therof to the end both to lay your errours before your eies in the least offensiue manner as also because I did and might very probably thinke that some Minister had had his finger in your Pye his hart and hand in that falshood I could not acknowledg that that accusatiō was indeed originally yours without charging you either with palpable rashnes or wilfull falshood Neyther can you now you haue taken the matter vpon you quit your hands handsomely therof For either you perused our Treatises concerning this matter or no. If not your rashnes is euident to censure what you neuer read to make your selfe Iudg and condemne a multitude of learned men in a matter you are wholy ignorant of (g) Iudicant multi priusquā legerunt priusquam inspexerūt quidem Lips de vesta ad Lector what greater presumption then this But if you did diligētly peruse our authors principaly those that thought were to haue handled this controuersie most exactly then your insincerity is inexcusable in slaundering them of proceeding as if they had neuer heard of your learned Instances which they do most largly and particulerly handle as you cannot deny I confesse say (h) p. 48. you that he F. Persons in the three Conuersions acknowledged that S Peter was here in England he mentioneth also perhaps vpon greater probabilities the comming of S. Paul Symon Zelotes Aristobulus and Ioseph of Arimathia Did you know these things Syr How then could your hart choose but giue your pen the ly when you write we deale peruersly with you about this point as though the Conuersions of the Britons by the forenamed Apostle and Apostolicall men were a matter we neuer had heard of 8. But you demand where do I say say you that they weary the world and bob their credulous Ladies as if they had neuer heard of Gildas his testimony I neuer named their author nor questioned the matter howsoeuer it pleaseth him to ioyne the peeces of two sentences which are almost a whole page distant and to fetch his marginall note nintie and two pages off This is the great iniury I haue done you wherof you so grieuously complayne This is my coniuring your wordes to make my owne sense You would haue the Ladies like so many Hecuba's take violent reueng vpon me for this my causlesse as you say traducing of a Knight to whome their honour is no lesse deare then his owne (i) p. 55. How deare their honour is to you the vnknightly phrases wherewith you honour them in your Epistle may sufficiently shew to omit the foule Popinians wherwith you charg them in your Snarle Which iniuries were they disposed to reuenge out of a worldly stomack rather then pardon out of Christian charitie they should need like frantike Hecuba's by which comparison you seek to disgrace them to fly themselues in your face They want not their Hectors who in defence of their Mothers honour would make you practice that point of prowesse you much commend (k) p. 68. to run away as well as fight 9. To returne to your accusation of me for falsifying the meaning of your letter the particulers are so ridiculous and idle that I am loath to spend tyme in the discouery of thē I fetch you say my marginall note 92. pages off a great fault doubtlesse what if I had fetcht it 2000. myles off I pray you what matter is it how farre of marginall notes are fetcht so they be true and fitt for the purpose for which they are brought which you neither doe nor can deny that mine was I said that you seemed to complaine that the booke of the three Conuersions lay vpō the Ladies cushions to which I cited in my margent a sentence out of your Epistle to them where reprouing them for being ouer busy with the Antiquity of your Church which they cannot conceiue you say quid quòd libri Stoici inter sericos valere puluillos ament This saying directed against our bookes that discouer the greene yeares of your mother-Mother-Church and the perpetuall traditiō of the Romā seemed to me to ayme specially at the three Conuersions that treateth of that subiect which was then very famous and plausible in the hands of many in which opinion I am now more confirmed in preceauing you tooke your discourse out of M. Whites Church verbatim who citeth that authour in the margent 10. But I ioyned the peeces of two sentences togeather which in your Letter are almost a whole page distant This accusation is no lesse vaine then the other I did not professe to recite your wordes but to set downe your meaning which I might doe though I did put those wordes first which you placed last you set downe many instances to proue a Conuersion of our Country before S. Augustine and then say as if we had neuer heard of that matter we bob our credulous Ladies I begyn with this last part say that you wrot that we bob our credulous Ladies as if we had neuer heard of your instances which I particulerly did relate being indeed the matter which you would haue men think we neuer take notice of in our Treatises of that subiect What difference in sense betwixt these two sayings as if they had neuer heard of the matter they bob their credulous
weake Goddesses the corruptions of S. Augustine I layd to your charge the examinatiōs of your excuses will shew that you sticke soe fast in those bryars that neither Briareus with an hundred hands can drawe nor all your Vulcans with their hatches cut you out 5. Let vs come to the particulers the first testimony which Ministers make the Knight bring to proue the Machabees not to be Canonicall is said I (a) Ouerthrow pag 233. out of the booke de Mirabilibus sacrae Scripturae which he by their direction citeth as S. Augustines though all learned men by vniforme consent discard it from that number as a booke of no account which Censure was made of this booke manie hundreth yeares before Syr Edward was borne (b) S. Tho. ◠p. q. 45. ◠3. ad 2. or his Church either whose antiquity he doth say truly the Ladies are not able to conceiue though they may easilie conceaue her noueltye seeing some Ladies may yet liue that are elder then his Church and manie are yet not very old whose parents were some yeares before Luther her first Father But as for that pretended booke of S. Augustine he that hath perused the same and can thinke it to be worthie either of the witt or learning or to sauour of the stile of that learned Father he hath I dare say more skill of trenchers then of Authours specially seeing the Authour himselfe in the fourth Chapter of his second booke doth say in expresse tearmes that he wrote the sayd booke in the yeare of our Lord 627. almost 200. yeares after that S. Augustine was dead And was not Syr Edward thinke you heere bobbed by the Bachelour or some Lecturer 6. This was my charge to which you answere with great admiratiō saying Would any (c) pag 28. man belieue that I should father that booke de mirabilibus sacrae scripturae vpon Augustine As who should say it is an incredible thing marke the force of your sentence consisting in the I which did not ouerweening blinde would perceaue his owne follie for are you indeed so singularlie learned that you can with a wet finger find out all the true works of this Father If you be soe cunning is also this your owne skill so notorious to mankind that it may seeme incredible to anie man that you should cite anie booke vnder his name which is not his Rabshacheh say you auer's that where to my eare your penne meeteth with such a iobbe as I feare your good dogge hath brokē his legge Rabshacheh auer's that Surely I was much to blame to accuse soe learned a Knight of such incredible mistaking Varius ait say you in the margent Scaurus negat you deny it a man forsooth of such credit as your bare word must be takē against the proofes of such a Varius as my selfe But let vs cōpare the sayings of your Letter Counter-snarle togeather then will it appeare who is Varius who doth varie from and contradict himselfe you or I. 7. Your letter to proue that the Machabees were Canonicall in S. Augustines iudgment saith in this sort (d) p. 60. It is not our surmise that S. Augustine seemeth to signifie so much who elswhere to wit in the booke de mirabilibus Sacrae Scripturae doth plainely determinately say that they are not of the diuine Canon Thus did your Letter then sing resolutly fathering as your wordes witnesse that booke on S. Augustine Now perceiuing by my accusation that to be grosse ignorance your Snarler barketh in another tune (e) gag 29. Fynding say you that booke in their coppies ranked with those other bookes that goe vnder the title of S. Augustine loath to trouble the margent with any circumlocutiō I only noted where it might be found marke I pray you that only which is one of the things that are most disgracefull in a Knight did you only note in the margent where that booke and sentence might be found and not also auer in your text that it was plainely and determinatly S. Augustines saying Who doth not see that your two bookes snarle at ech-other that you play Scaurus in the one and Rabshacheh in the other peremptorily denying in your Snarle what you did constantly affirme in your letter This is to be Varius indeed and truly Rabshacheh which signifieth in Hebrew multùm Ebrius a man much giuen to drinke which title whether it rather agree to me then to your selfe I am content any indifferent man be Iudge that knoweth vs both 8. And not only is your Snarler forced to eate vp the wordes you spake in your Letter but you doe adde further a new vntruth that you omitted to note the ambiguitie of the author of that booke out of loathnes to trouble your margent with any circumlocution which idle excuse you likewise repeate in your answere to the third falsification (f) p. 42. that you ioyned two places of S. Augustine in one forbearing to note the place where either might be found not to be tedious forsooth to the reader with long quotations A man that hath cast his eye though but once on your booke may perceiue the vanity of this your fig-leafe wherewith you would hide this your falshood For the margent to whose purity you would seeme to beare respect you feare not to defile with hebrew Characters with vulgar sentences both Greeke and French with triuiall verses out of Cato and such childish authors with ridiculous phrases which serue only to wast ynke and blur paper If you name me your margent must also speake Numquam ego hominem magis asinum vidi (g) p. 27. If you see my pinnace a far off nec operam nec oleum sapit (h) pag. 59. You sweare vpon your life I haue beene a notorious truant in my dayes (i) pag. 58. and straight a verse redoundes on your booke side sic vos non vobis Your inkehorne hath no sooner deuised a new Erynnicall word to bestow on a libell but Virgil versifieth vpon it (k) p. 67. Quò tristis Erynnis Quò fremitus vocat You accuse me with soloecismes referring me to your latin Notation (l) pag. 11. Si ego indignus hac contumelia tu tamen indignus qui faceres which is soe heauie and leaden a loade to be layd vpon soloecismes which I neuer obiected to you that the same had reason to crie O. with which letter you marke them 9. Your owne mediocritie is named in your text the Echo thereof soundeth in the Margent to your praise Mediocria firma (m) p. 11. you say that it is art inough for you to please your selfe whome you note with a T. in the forehead as though you were an humble penitent yet in the Margent you versifie in this sort (n) pag. 39. Quem penes arbitrium est ius forma loquendi Which proud verse signifies that by T. you meane Throne where you meane to sit as M. Controuller I omit many other
of your impertinent and ridiculous Annotations these few may suffice to shew that you neuer leaue your margent white without notes but when your head is blank without matter Whence it is cleere that the cause why you did not censure the booke De Mirabilibus as the supposed issue of S. Augustine was not your loathnes to trouble your Margent with circumlocutions but either ignorance that indeed you thought that booke was his which I thinke probable or els fraude which made you vtter what you knew was false to deceaue your Reader which imputation you would haue laid vpon you rather then ignorance 10. But if one demaund of you why you did cite that booke for S. Augustines saying that it was his against your conscience and knowledg as you now confesse You answere in this manner (o) p. 29 As neere as I can remember say you I thus argued with my self If they graunt that S. Augustines penne did discard those bookes the matter wil be soone at an end if they denie that booke to be his then how will they excuse their Church that hath playd many such lewd prankes Or how will they answere antiquitie which distinguished these bookes Thus you argued with your selfe which doth argue that your false Ministers teach you to vse reseruations and equiuocations in your writings about matters of religion to deceaue your lesse-wary Readers You said in your Letter then that the booke de mirabilibus was determinatly S. Augustines which I proued apparently to be false Now you confesse that it is indeed false yea that you knew it was false euen when you wrot it but you had forsooth a reserued discourse that might make the same true to wit that that booke de mirabilibus is S. Austines or else the Church of Rome hath played manie false trickes or els how will they answere Antiquitie Is not this wicked frauduleÌ„t proceeding 11. To make the same dealing more apparent and sensible to you I will vse an example that may touch you neere Suppose I should write that a Protestant Knight in England hath children by a Black-more namely a Girle in the margent citing Syr Edw. Hoby that you proue it to be a lewd slaÌ„der accusing me of iniurious falshood against you My answere is like to yours Will any man think I fathered those children on Syr Edward Hoby indeed not knowing to whose charge I might lay them loth to trouble my margent with circumlocutions I noting the house where such a mother is found I knew Syr Edward was not the Father of those bratts but I thus argued with my selfe If he grant those children to be his the matter is at an end if he deny them then how will he answere his Protestant brethreÌ„ that accuse him of such lewd prankes Were this proceeding Syr Edward iustifiable to vtter slaunderous vntruthes which I know are false excusing them by mentall and reserued discourses I am sure you would detest this manner of dealing in me against your selfe which yet you approue in your selfe against the Church of Rome 12. Moreouer I add that your mentall reseruation which you now vtter is also false to witt that the booke de mirabilibus in our copies is placed in equall ranke with those other that goe vnder the name of S. Augustine and that it is still continued by vs amongst his goulden workes which you tearme a lewd pranke and say that none can read anie Fathers in our EditioÌ„s but he is in danger to catch a snake for an eele except he read Thomas Aquinas before Vidi Opera August à Theolog. Louaniens edita ann 1571. ex officina Plantiniâ—na This you speak which is as grosse an vntruth as the former For in out latter EditioÌ„s this book is not ranked amongst the whole bookes of S. Augustine but in an Appendix after them in a different letter with title of Anonymi cuiusdam the Treatise of a namelesse Authour In the elder Editions these bookes go printed amongst his in the same letter but with this Censure in the beginning and head therof nec stilo nec ingenio Augustinum sapit This Treatise doth neither sauour of the conceipt nor stile of S. Augustine Could the Church of Rome shew greater sinceritie then this 13. Doe you in your owne Bible ranke the Apochriphall bookes as you esteeme them Tobias Iudith Machabees with those of the diuine Scripture cheeke by ioule to vse your owne phrase both in elder and newest Editions of your Bible Do not Canonicall Scriptures excell the Apochriphall more then S. Augustine doth any other Father that liued after him Why should you tearme it a lewd pranke to coople togeather the second in the same volume which goeth for Augustines if it be a holy practise in your Church to ioyne together the first in your Bible that goeth vnder the name of Gods booke 14. Now in the custodie of these workes of Antiquitie the Church of Rome hath bene so Religious that you chaleng those Charters for your doctrine which you caÌ„not deny but haue byn for 1000. yeares at least in her only keeping If the bookes of the Ancient Fathers should be Pupills or Wards of your Church but for one age that you might vncontrolledly cut downe what trees please you not in their groundes we might afterwards haue as great difficultie to find a booke or sentence in their writings which we now plentifully alleadge for our doctrines pag. 40. as I should haue to find you IndiaÌ„ vapour if that be true as you say that it is long since flowen out of my sight yea which doth clerely iustifie the Roman Churches sinceritie the bastardlie boughes as you tearme them more then any true branches of S. Augustine make for your doctrine and now doth the booke de mirabilibus for your Hebrew Canon which is a manifest â—â—signe that these bookes were not fradulently by her ioyned with that Fathers to giue credit vnto them because they fauour her cause as you imagine 15. To conclude you are forced to grant as much as I desired to witt that the booke de mirabilibus ys not S. Augustines as you cited it but that it is altogeather impertinent to proue your intent that the Machabees are not Canonicall in his iudgment You (p) pag. 31. bragg that you haue quit your hands of the first falshood which is so true that whereas I accused you of ignorance and not of falshood not to seeme to haue writteÌ„ in ignorance you haue vttered foure falshoods First that you did not cite the sentence out of the booke de mirabilibus for S. Augustines the contrarie whereof is extant vnder your owne hand in your letter which you wish might be ingrauen in marble (q) p. 62. The second that you did not note the Authour of that booke was doubtfull out of respect to your margent fearing to trouble the same with a learned annotation which you lode euery where with all manner of impertinent stuffe Thirdly you vse
mentall reseruations in your writings putting that which you know was false into your paper keeping that which you did imagine might make the same true in your thoughts Finally you slaunder the Church of Rome for lewd prankes about the Fathers volumes wherein I haue proued her practise to be most syncere so that if poore mens purses be neuer more quit of mony then your penne is now of falshood when they are poorest they will not lack a groate yet I thinke my second accusation of your falshood will cleaue faster to your fingers that to cleere your selfe you will be forced to rubb them rudlye on your Printers head 16. The second place you brought out of S. Augustine against the booke of Machabees was a sentence in his booke against the Epistle to Gaudentius l. 2. c. 51. in these very wordes Machabaeorum Scriptura recepta est ab Ecclesia non inutiliter si sobrie legatur vel audiatur maximè propter ipsos Martyres Machabaeos Sed ob hanc causam in Canone morum non fidei censeri posset Signifying said you that there must be great sobriety vsed in hearing and reading of those bookes and that they are in the Canon of Manners and not of faith My accusation was that your minister had added the last sentence conteyning the substance of the matter vnto S. Augustine Sed ob hanc causam in Canone morum non fidei censeri posset But for this cause that booke may be put in the Canon of manners not of faith Will Syr Edward said I suffer himselfe to be thus bobbed his credit blowne vp wil he not set such a frowne on his trencher-ministers as may make thē vanish out of sight Can any staine to his Knighthood be greater then to be thought a notorious falsifier of so great and learned a Father euen in print Thus I wrote in my Treatise which you terme lame and goutie let vs see how nimble-footed you are in your excuse 17. This last clause say you I wōder how it should passe my sight in the reuiew for perusing my first draught I find go written short in another Letter to distinguish my inference from Augustines proofe It seemeth eyther my Manuaries hast or the Printers mispression hath turned go into sed as if the same had bene contiuned which former errour made thē omit consequētly in the English redditio Thus you write cōfessing as much as I accused you of to wit that the last clause was not S. Augustines but the Ministers or your owne Now that there was a short Goe in your first draught seemes not very probable but rather that your Vulcanes haue hāmered it out of your head to excuse your falshood First what likenesse is there betwixt go and sed that your Manuarie or Printer should take the one for the other what probability that he should so consequently corrupt the text as to leaue out consequently vpon the former errour Secondly why should you make your inference in Latine writing in English What English Author doth vse that idle manner of writing but your self neither doe you vse it your self but only in this place which maketh it more then probable that in truth you thought not therof But now you say you vsed it hauing noe better cloak then this short go to couer so notorious a fraud Thirdly for what purpose doth this iuggling togeather of your sentences both in Latin and English with S. Augustines serue but only that the simple Reader may not distinguish the gray-hound from the hare the doue from the kyte Finally may not a man printe whole sentences of his owne as S. Augustines or any other Fathers and being accused of falshood haue the like excuse to yours at his fingers ends that in the draught there was a go which the Printer let goe 18. But you had you say (r) pag. 33. S. Hieromes authority for that inferēce though you quoted him not who sayth (ſ) Hier. praefat in l. Salom. that the Church doth not receiue the booke of Machabees adding legat ad aedificationem plebis non ad authoritatē dogmatum Ecclesiasticorum confirmandā which wordes say you amount to no lesse summe then that those bookes are in Canone morum non fidei censendi I answere first this is nothing to the purpose to proue S. Augustine did reiect them who might be contrarie to S. Hierome in this point not being then defined by any generall Coūcell though S. Hierome may seeme to speake according to the opinion of the Hebrews as he vseth to doe (t) Vide prafat in Daniel Apol. aduers Ruffin not in his owne Secondly I say that those wordes of S. Hierome come short of your summe and that neither in S. Hierome nor any Ancient Father can be found your Protestant distinction of the Canon of Māners and Canon of Faith Euerie booke that may be reade for edification in the Church may not be tearmed a Canō or Rule of Manners as manie books may edifie Faith which doe not rule it so some Authours may edifie the Church in good life though their workes be not the rule of manners A rule must be right so that a thing conformable to it cannot be crooked As what soeuer is agreable to the Rule of Faith is infallibly true soe what is iust with the Rule of Manners is certainely good But actions according to these bookes we speake of you grant may be wicked how then can they be the Canon and Rule of Manners To kill himselfe for example is a thing vnlawfull yet it is conformable to those actions that you say are praised in the Machabees which bookes you accept as a Rule of Manners If a booke that alloweth some thinges against good Manners may be with a litle Caution as you say (v) pa. 37. the Canon of vertuous life I see not why a booke teaching false doctrine in some points may not with like caution be the Canon of Faith you see that your distinction neither grounded vpon reason nor Fathers nor Scriptures is iustlie a beame in my eye Neither doth Caietan whome you cite iumpe altogeather with your conceipt and though he did his sayings are not Oracles with vs. 19. The third testimonie you alledged out of S. Augustine against the Machabees was this sentence (x) Aug. de ciuit l. 1. c. 20. In the holy Canonicall Bookes there is no diuine precept or permission to be found that we may eyther to gaine immortality or to escape any peril or mischiefe make away with our selues vt Razis seipsum occidens laudatur as Razis did kill himselfe and is therefore commended in the booke of Machabees This last clause said I (z) pag. 135. 136. wherein the force of the testimony consisteth is added both in latin and in English to S. Augustines wordes to make him seeme an enemy of the bookes of the Machabees But indeed that Father doth not say that Razias for that is his name and not Razis was praysed
only lawfull but also meritorious for a man to kill himselfe First ne subditus fieret peccatoribus Secondly ne in contemptum Dei Caeli eius vita in ludibrio traheretur He concludes Some thinke S. Augustines saying which here followeth in the glosse is thus to be vnderstood Thus writ you not very sincerely relating Lira's doctrine but because it is not to the purpose I omit to discouer you At the naming of S. Augustines saying dreaming that it must needs be your Goose or Woodcock your teeth water to haue it in your mouth O say you that I could meet with the saying of Augustine that I omitted to cite doth Lira say it followeth here in the glosse then will I presume so farre vpon your patience as to write it out Thus you tune your instrument before you play Take heed Sir you abuse not those worthy Gentlemens patience whom you inuite to be your hearers after all these preambles if you sound at last the harsh Hebrew harp of Lyra for the sweet latin Lute of S. Augustine you will giue them iust cause to laugh at your folly 26. The saying you cite for S. Augustines out of Lyra (l) in 2. Mach. c. 14. is this Vnde scriptura huius libri quae recepta est ab Ecclesia ad legendum pro informatione morum non videtur sic Raziam arguere sed commendare de suiipsius interfectione si autem praedicta non sufficiant ad eius excusationem dici potest quòd hoc fecit per specialem instinctum Spiritus sancti Whereupon the Scripture of this book which is receaued by the Church to be read for information of manners doth not seeme here to reproue Razias but rather to commend him for killing of himself and if the aforesaid excuse do not suffice it may be said he did that fact by speciall instinct of the holy Ghost Thus you write calling me Sophister and dizzi-braynd Ismaelite for saying that it was far from S. Augustines grauity to read the Machabees with so little sobriety as to think that Razias was praised for killing himself yet say you whether S. Augustine was of this mind or no let it lye vpon Lyra's report 27. Noe Syr this false report will lye vpon your selfe except you will confesse the truth that some Minister suggested this lye vnto you to disgrace S. Augustine you haue couched such falshood and follie togeather that I know not which I should first and most accuse But with your patience I will touch them both but your folly first For if this be S. Augustines sentence who doth not see that your argument to proue the Machabees not to be Scripture is not worth a rush For if Canonicall Scripture giue leaue to a man to kill himselfe by the especiall commaund and instinct of the holy Ghost if Razias killed himselfe by such a speciall precept what did he against Canonicall Scripture Why should not the booke of the Machabees be sacred though they praise Razias for this fact as well as the booke of Iudges where Sampson is praised who did the like Spiritus latenter hoc iusserat sayth S. Augustine (m) l. 1. de Ciuit. c. 21. qui per eum miracula faciebat The spirit that did Miracles by Sampson secretlie commaunded him to kill himselfe Let vs put your sillogisme into forme as you desire this it is Noe Canonicall booke doth cōmaund or praise killing ones selfe without speciall instinct of the holy Ghost But Razias killed himself by that speciall instinct and for this respect is praised in the booke of Machabees ergo the booke of Machabees is not Canonicall Scripture I dare say you need not write Goose or Woodcock ouer the head of this argumēt euery one wil perceaue the feature you haue drawne though vnderneath you say nothing 28. This is your ignorance but now your Ministers falshood is yet more notorious admirable for you skip ouer the true sentence of S. Augustine which Lyra citeth which is also cited in the Glosse indeed found in his workes and you bring Lira's owne words and illations which stand many lines after for the verie saying of this Father Thus Lyra writeth in that place Some say that the saying of S. Augustine which is found in the Glosse is thus to be vnderstood Doe you long Syr Edward for S Augustines saying Harken vnto Lyra which doth sound it (n) August l. 1. de ciuit c. 21. His exceptis quae lex generaliter iusta ipse fons iustitiae Deus specialiter iubet occidi quisquis hominum vel seipsū vel quemlibet alium occiderit homicidij crimine innectitur Those excepted whom iust lawes in generall or God the fountaine of iustice doth specially commaund to be killed what man soeuer doth make away with himself or any other is guiltie of the crime of murther This is S Augustines saying which you may finde also verbatim in the Glosse in that very page And this saying some did vnderstand that when one killeth himselfe to the end that he may not be drawne by torments to an Idolatrous religion or not be mocked to skorne in contempt of his God that he sinneth not because Iustice in such cases did allow of it 29. Which interpretation is both false and against the minde of S. Augustine who doth often teach and largly proue against the Circumcellians that in such cases killing ones selfe is vnlawfull (o) Quicūque hoc in seipsis perpetrauerūt animi magnitudine fortasse mirandi non sapientiae sanitate laudandi sunt l. 1. de Ciuit. c. 22. that Razias was not cōmēdable for that fact which the Scripture did report not praise Looke into the Glosse vpon that place which is taken out of S. Augustine this peece whereof Lyra citeth you shall not find so much as a word in defence of Razias How can this corruption be excused from witting falshood to passe ouer S. Augustines saying so obuious that lay in the way Was he not a nimble foxe (p) Illa leui velox superabat deuia cursu sūmaque transibat positarum lina plagarum that could fetch such a leape ouer a marble piller into a long peece of ground But to whose charge shall I lay it Your Printer is all readie loaden your Minister I must not meddle with if I touch your Person I shall heare you rage (q) pag. 2. that like a shrewish distracted male-content I scrach kicke spurne hale teare men noble by discent eminent in places profound in iudgment skilfull in tongues famous for learning vertue and experience in trauailes by which periphrases you seeme to discribe your selfe What shall I doe but follow an ancient custome which was to beat the Minstrell when the Cooke did amisse (r) Tibicen vapulat You compare your selfe to (ſ) pag. 61. Gracchus who came not at any time say you to make an Oration without a Minstrell who by the sound of his Pipe did set him a right
of the Altar which custome he proueth was perpetuall euen from the blessed Apostles S. Cyril Arch-bishop of Ierusalem liuing in Constantine the Great his time writeth of that practice in this sort (b) Cathec mystag 5. When we offer vp sacrifice we pray for our deceased Fathers and Bishops and finally for all men departed amongst vs for we belieue that this is a great help for the soules of them in whose behalfe we offer that holy and fearefull sacrifice which is layd vpon the Altar S. Chrysostome (c) hom 79. ad populum Antiochenum saith as much that it was not vnaduisedly decreed by the Apostles that in the fearefull Mysteries there should be a commemoration of the dead for they knew the dead receiued great benifite vtility therby But most clearely S. Augustine (d) Serm. 42. de verbis Apostol There is no doubt saith he but that by the prayers of holy Church and by the healthfull Sacrifice and by almes the soules of the deceased are released that God may deale more mercifully with them then their sinnes haue deserued for this being deliuered by our Fathers the vniuersall Church doth obserue 2. Behold prayer for the reliefe of the dead receaued from the Blessed Fathers Apostles practized by the vniuersall Church in that her most florishing age whose authoritie to impeach is the badge of heresie whose custome to condemne is insolēt madnes What say you to this Argument Syr Edward Sometimes you labour to proue that this was not an Apostolicall Tradition nor a perpetuall and vniuersall custome of the Church you bring (e) pag. 76. 77. argument vpon argument fiue or sixe one vpon the back of another which it were lost time to set downe For when your swelling pregnant Mountaines come to their Childbirth they are deliuered of a feely mouse the force of your argument consisting in this testimony of Polydore Virgil that Purgatorium aliquando incognitum fuit serò cognitū Ecclesiae vniuersae it was a great while before Purgatory was hard of and but of late knowne to the vniuersall Church I know I might pose you to finde nay sure I am you cannot finde those wordes in Polydore A signe that when you conceiue your noble and worthy lynes you haue Ministers note-bookes before you which is the cause they are so false foule rather resembling a Minister then a Knight some of that crew as it may seeme had summed the substance as he thought of Polydors discourses in that place you cite (f) De inuent l. 8. c. 1. which sume you trāscribe into your Letter as Polydors owne wordes though Polydore in truth speaketh not one word of his owne concerning Purgatory but meerly relateth of Roffensis whome you also bring such is your beggary making two distinct Authours of one 3. Roffensis then must beare the brunt of this battayle whome you quote (g) pag. 77. saying that the Greekes knew not Purgatory vnto this day Nay further he propoundeth this chalenge Reade he that list the ancient Greekes commentaries and he shall finde either little or no mention at all of Purgatory But in this your English Edition you omit that which you haue in your latin Original Quantum opinor as I now think or ghesse sayth that Byshop which is lesse then a new nothing to hang on your sleeue For though Roffenfis at that tyme (h) art 18. aduersus Luth. had such a thought not hauing then so fully perused the Grecian Fathers yet afterwards in that very booke when he commeth to speake of Purgatory (i) art 38. he doth affirme the contrarie in expresse tearmes Whereas Luther did obiect (k) Graeca Ecclesiae Purgatorium non credit manens Catholica that the Greeke Church did not belieue Purgatorie he maketh this answere I take it you meane the vulgar multitude of that Nation not the Fathers of the Grecian Church for that the Grecian Fathers fauour Purgatorie the workes they left behind them doe witnesse then he bringeth diuers authorities in proofe of his Assertion And againe Luther obiecting that Purgatorie could not be proued out of Scripture he doth reply that to pray for soules in Purgatorie is a most ancient custome of the Church adding (l) Cùm Purgatorium à to◠patribus tam Graecis quà m latinis affirmetur art 38. circa principium that seeing so many Fathers both Greeke and Latin auer Purgatorie it is not likly but that truth was made knowne vnto them by sufficient proofes out of Scripture Behold the swelling waues of your Syllogismes which occupy a whole page of your booke now are ended in froath in a silly surmise of Roffensis which vpon mature and exact perusall of the ancient Fathers he doth himselfe peremptorily gaine-say 4. But put case Polydore Virgil or Roffensis had said what you desire could his words way downe in any iudicious ballance S. Augustines cōtrary assertion Especially about the custome of the Church in that age wherein this glorious Saint liued S. Augustine against Polydors or rather your Ministers Serò that Purgatorie is but of late he hath à Patrihus traditum that it is deliuered from our Fathers which Fathers S. Chrysostome declareth to haue bene the Apostles against the emphasis of non vniuersae not the vniuersall he hath the contradictory vniuersa obseruat Ecclesia the whole vniuersall Church doth practice prayer for the relief of some dead Now you haue the whole army of the Christian Church in all ages set in battayle array against you the blessed Apostles with Pykes as I may say of diuine Authoritie standing in the forefront You say (m) Counters p. 24. the Apostles long since lent you a brydle to curbe the motions of swelling pride Si quis se existmet scire aliquid nondum cognouit quemadmodum oporteat eum scire This bit of sobriety if you had it euer in your mouth it may seeme that wine hath washed it downe so tamquam equus sine intellectu you runne against this glorious army You giue a double assault one with Iestes Scoffs deriding Catholikes for the reuerence they beare vnto the Churches authoritie Secondly you bring places of Scriptures which to your fancy seeme to condeme Purgatory and the custome to pray for the reliefe of the deseased First you begin u to iest at the saying of that Treatise that it is insolent madnes to contradict in this sort the custome of the Church pulchrè dictum say you this is your Ladies A. B. C. the Church is as much beholding to you as was Pythagoras to his Schollers insteed of ipse dixit you will haue ipsa dixit Thus you write And truly from such a Poet as your selfe what could we expect but such irreligious iestes who perchance take your pen to write about Theologicall questions when you are in the same case your Father Enuius euer was when he set himselfe to make Heroicall verses 5. For what man that hath any bit either of
copied it the proofes therof with a little chaÌ„g of words I say quoth he that S. Augustine conuerted not our Country at all (d) p. 356. besides the planting of trifling Cerimonies And againe His errand as it may probably be thought was about the plaÌ„ting of certaine ceremonies and the dealing with our Country-men about the Obseruation of Easter And Gregory that sent him about that tyme was busy in changing the Liturgy vsed in those westerne parts did thrust his new ones vpon all the places he could It may be this was a part of the Monkes busines vnto Kent (e) pag. 357. Thus writeth your Minister Which is I dare say one of the greatest vntruthes in matter of History that euer durst appeare in print 24. First it is false that Gregory made a new Liturgy of his owne forcing the same vpon the westerne Churches as may be made cleare by that which S. Bede writeth of this (f) l 2. Hist Gent. Angl. c. 1. Pope to wit that he added to the Liturgy three short petitions viz. diesque nostros in tua pace disponas ab aeterna damnatione nos eripe in electorum iubeas grege numerari Had he changed wholy the old or made a new Liturgie of his owne would Bede thinke you who was so curious to note his addition of only three words haue omitted it Yet suppose he then had that busines in hand would this Minister haue vs imagine that that matter did so wholy possesse his braine as he could not remember to deliuer vnto S. Augustine when he sent him a greater and more substantiall errand So farr was that Blessed Pope from being absorpt with trifling Ceremonies as this Minister would haue vs think as contrariwise saith venerable Bede (g) l. 2. c. 1. whereas former Romanie Bishops had much giuen themselues to the building of Churches and adorning them with gold and siluer this Blessed Pope totus ad animarum lucra vacabat had all his thoughts imployed in the gayning of soules vnto God 25. What more famous then his harty affectioÌ„ towards our Nation which to conuert from Idolatrie he was comming in person from which kept back by higher authority when the busines or mission now lay in his hands sent preachers vnto vs Before his Popedome the least sound or similitude of words could raise his thoughts to think of our greatest and euerlasting happines (h) CamdeÌ„ in Britannia Beda vbi supra The word Angli made him wish vs the fellowship of Angells Aelle the name of the King to desire that Alleluia should be song in our streets Deiri so was the people when those youthes were brought called to prophesie that we should be deliuered de tra Dei from the wrath of God Now is it probable that sending Messengers vnto this Nation he would send with them a message of trifling Cerimonies not that faith and Religion which only was able to redeeme theÌ„ from the wrath of God and bring them to the fellowship of Angells Sure I am S. Bede (i) Bed l. 1. cap. 26. saith otherwise that S. Augustins errand from Gregorie was more heauenly to wit praedicare vâ—rbum Dei genti Anglorum to preach not trifling Cerimonies only but the word of God to the English Nation and when frighted with the fearcenesse of that barbarous People they began to looke backe he sent them Letters exhortatorie that trusting in God they should goe forward ad opus verbi in the worke or mysterie of the worde in which Letters also he doth shew what a deepe desire of our euerlasting happines did dwell in his hart wishing he might be partaker of the merit of their labours and that the sight of our Conuersion might be part of his eternall felicity in the next world 26. When S. Augustine did deliuer his errand to King Edelbert I find in the same S. Bede this tenor thereof se venire de Roma nuntium ferre optimum that he came from Rome and brought a most ioyfull message which whosoeuer should obey should haue eternall ioyes in heauen a perpetuall Kingdome with the true and liuing God Will you heare S. Augustines errand and busines into Kent and England and the ioyfull issue thereof set downe by your famous Protestant Antiquarie (k) Brit. pag. 125. Augustine saith he commonly named the Apostle of the English sent hither by Gregory the great hauing destroyed the Monsters of heathenish impiety with most happy successe planting Christ in their mynds conuerted them vnto the Christian faith But what stand I seriously to confute such grosse vntruthes full of ingratitude as these are which Englishmen whom heresie hath not made more sauage then those were whom that Blessed delegate found at his entrance will wash away with teares but of this Ministers bookes He had reason hauing styled his booke The way to the Church to tearme his discourses digressions that is Turnings out of the way For being so full of falshoods and those most impudent as you haue seene these are which you copyed into your Counter-snarle what can they be but by-wayes and crooked paths that will conduct the credulous Reader that walketh securely in them into heresie the ready downefall into Hell I doe not meruaile Syr Edward your children be so deformed which you conceaue with this foule patterne not whiter then your Blackmore before your eies as I could and would discouer did I not feare to exceed the breuity of an Epistle yet I am in hope shortly to haue tyme and leasure to doe it more fully 27. This only I now add which also is pertinent to the matter we handle that whereas Catholicke Religion conuerted our Country from Barbarity vnto Christianity this Minister layeth the contrary imputation on it that is maketh some part of our country still sauage and barbarous which your Protestant Modesty and Religion forsooth must ciuilize All disorders saith he (k) p. 110. be most in those places amongst vs where the people is most Pope-holy other parishes where the Ghospell hath byn taught being reduced to ciuility and the rest that swarue with Priests RecusaÌ„ts remayning sauage barbarous that no Christian Man can indure their manners For my owne part hauing spent much of my tyme among them this I haue found that in all excesse of sinne Papists haue byn the Ringleaders in riotous companies in drunkeÌ„ Meetings in seditious assemblies practises in prophaning the Sabaoth in Quarrells braules in stage-playes Greenes Ales and all heathnish customes The common sort of that people commonly burned in sinne swearing more then can be expressed vncleanesse drunkenesse perfidiousnes wild odious Their familes vntaught and dissolute their behauiour fierce full of contumely iniuiry inhumanity full of slaunderous reports wilde lookes and all vnchristian vsage towards any not of their Religion that I dare be bould to say we may all cast our capps at them for Atheisme all that naught is Thus he Truly Syr