all thinges for this / that they that call her grace supreme gouernour in all thinges and causes aswell ecclesiasticall as temporall / The protestantes doinges sclaunderouse to the Quene and the realme are noted / not at home only but abroade also in strange countries / moste lewdely to abuse the same / while euen in a matter of no greater importance then is the wearing of a square cappe / they refuse the ordre of the supreme gouernour in all thinges and causes as in wordes they call her ecclesiasticall and temporall while for the signe of our redemption the crosse whiche her maiestie kepeth moste reuetently in her chappell / she is in her owne realme by a booke printed and set saithe by a meane and base subiect / inalapertly comptrolled â–ª What maye foraigne princes thinke of suche a contâ—â—mely / if as her graces affection towardes the crosse is vnknowen to none / so the onlye knowledge of the title of suche an infamouse libell rather then a booke / be brought to the eares of anie of them But what maie they saye / if vnderstanding the tongue / Calshil in â—pist ad Martialem pag. 7. they shoulde read â–ª within foure leaues of the beginning As for hir priuate doinges neither are they to be drawen as a president for all nor any ought to crepe in to the princes bosome of euery facte to iudge an affection What could they gather herof but that the princes honour were vilanously touched / as though in religion which is but one and therfore not subiecte to change / she did vse one religion her selfe / and deliuer an other to her subiectes as though which is worse she kepte for hir owne priuate vse the bad / and gaue to the rest the better yea which is yeat worst of all as though she shoulde pretende one thing outewardly / and be of an other affection inwardly / which coulde not be perceiued but by creeping into hir bosome But if he that setteth forwarde so vnhappely saile the rest of his course withe no better fortune / he shoulde in all wise iudgement haue done more wisely / if he had continued stil in the quiet hauen at the ancre wherat once he laye / then he hathe done by committing him selfe to the mercye of the windes waues of these troubelouse seas of controuersies / wherein no skilfuller pilote then he sheweth him selfe to be / maye easely make a foolishe shipwreke / and be cast awaye These be the sclaunderouse persons good Readers / whom M. Nowell if he haue that regarde to the honour of our souereigne ladye the Quene / his dutie to oure countrye lawes thereof / that he pretendeth will shortly haue in the chase / and let me and suche as I am alone / who protest neuer to desire to liue houre longre / then we shall be contented to liue like true subiectes vnder the humble obedience of oure gratiouse souereigne The prince goddes image in earthe / whome we acknowledge to be the image of God in earthe / in all ciuile and politike gouernement But nowe here I praie yowe beholde / how M. Nowell that maketh these greate bragges / of repelling withe earnestnesse suche reproches as I haue attempted he saieth to blemishe my prince lawes and countrie withall quitteth hym selfe of his promise Doth he not euen then when he commeth to that article where these surmised reproches shoulde be / flee backe and giue ouer in the plaine fielde Is not this repelling withe earnestnesse a plaine mockery to be laughed at / when about the matter that made him he saieth to wright so carefully and diligently / of 124. leaues / he bestoweth not fully three when he endeth there / without entring in to the article / where he shoulde rather haue begonne The thirde reason that hathe moued M. Nowell to wright the more largely against me / he expresseth in these wordes because the simple vnlearned readers haue often best liking in bookes more boldely then learnedly written and are moste in daunger to credite most lewde and sclaunderouse lyes I therfore haue in answering more at large applied my selfe to such as be of meane vnderstanding to whome the guilefull dealinges of the papistes can not with breuitie be made manifest These be M. Nowelles causes for his excuse why in so many wordes he hath vttred so little matter But the truthe is / when after longe streining of curtosy emongest the brethren which of them shoulde answere my booke / they all agreed / first in this / that something muste nedes be saide therto / and finally that M. Nowell of all other shoulde take the matter in hande / as he that for his rare gift of railing were best able to feede the humour of suche simple and vnlearned / as here him selfe saieth / haue often best lyking in bookes more boldly then learnedly written then he deepely considering / that the greatest vauntage that he coulde finde against me / muste be by making men beleue / that the places of S. Cyprian S. Hierome and suche like / brought for the confirmation of that first proposition of myne / That there must be one head in earth to gouerne christes churche were alleaged directly for the B. of Romes supremacy / to the whiche being conteined withein the compasse of 15. leaues of my booke / if he shoulde but answere after like proportion / his answere were The true cause of M. Nowel les so large writing like to be counted but a twopeny booke / and he for no better then a three-halfepeny doctour his high wisdome in respecte of these considerations founde it best / to dilate so that little stuffe that he had to vtter / that he might seme to haue made a iust volume / and to haue answered therein the whole For this respecte / because to haue intituled his booke A Reproufe written by Alexander Nowell of a piece of a booke c. VVhy he termed his boke a Reproufe had bene to greate a blemishe to his worship / and call it a confutation or an answere to my whole booke by any meanes he coulde not / he deuised to terme it a Reproufe of my booke / a worde as he thought suche / as in reprouing only 15. leaues he might seme to be able to iustifie / and which shoulde sounde in the eares of the vnlearned not accustomed to looke so narowly in to the nature of wordes asmuche as a confutation of the whole For this cause / to pacifie the learneder sorte whome he sawe he shoulde not be able by suche a tricke of ligier de main so easily to deceiue / and who woulde he knewe well not staye at the title / but take a diligent viewe of the contentes of the whole / he ransacking all the corners of his iugglers boxe / brought furthe at the lengthe a tricke of deceptio visus whereby he woulde make them beleue as you haue heard that M. Doctour Hardinges booke
learned what so euer they wrote / of other that were before them Thus muche maye be saide to M. Nowell susteining thys paradox to deface vs to the worlde that we are seely translatours because nothing can nowe be newely written for the maintenaunce of the popes supremacy or any other matters whiche we nowe treate of but such as hathe bene allready bothe written and printed many yeares agoe c. The which so strange an opinion / as for his small skyll some simple Ideot maye mainteine / so is it for the persone of M. Nowell / one that beareth some countenaunce of learning / and is in deede in the place and roume of a learned man / alltogether vnsitting And this I doubte not but he him selfe / aswell by the experience of his owne writing of late / as of other of his syde that wright daily / knewe well inough But to muche Rhetorike made him playe the foole / and while he folowed to neare the preceptes of his arte / he straied to far from the rules of all good reason For allthough it be tricke of Rhetorike / to labour to bring the aduersarie in the verie entry in to the matter / out of credite withe the reader or hearer yeat is it a pointe of reason to forsee and prouide withall / that the meanes whiche a man vseth / be not suche as maie be returned against him selfe Well this being nowe in the hearing of M. Nowell who peeped bylike To the. 2. there while in at the key hole concluded emongest the catholikes in this solemne conference of theirs / that some thing shoulde be set furthe in Englishe / the nexte deuise was of the maner of publishing it Which was / if the Reporter lye not that because they mistrusted dest this kinde of writing or rather translating should not appeare worthy to be accompted the earnest doinges of anye learned or wise man they shoulde pretende either their bookes to be written lightely for priuate frindes c. or appoint suche to beare the name as authors of such bookes as were the simplest men for learning and discretion emongest them If malice had not alltogether blinded him / and as it were bereued him of common sense / neuer woulde he haue abused youre eares good Readers / with such vaine toyes as these are For there is none of yow I trust / but that he iudgeth better of the whole nombre oâ— catholikes / then that he can be persuaded to thinke / that there shoulde be emongest them anye so wittelesse / muche lesse that a multitude shoulde agree in conference to thinke / that to wright of a matter either in the same tongue or anye other / whereof an other hathe written before / were a thing not worthy to be accounted the doing of any learned or wise man Whiche if they shoulde thinke / what were it elles but to condemne all the learned writers of so many hundred yeares / of ignorance and lacke of witte / as either being seely translatours or needy borowers Beside this / there is none of yow I trust so simple but that he can easely imagine with him selfe / that it is not likely / that anie Catholike shoulde be so far from all reason / as to feare thys that M. Nowelles fantasy surmiseth / hauing especially in his eye the example of heretikes them selues / who writing daily in the vulgar tongues / are yeat therefore counted of none but fooles in deede / the lesse learned or wise He noteth in the margent M. Doctour Harding and M. Rastell / for pretending their bookes to be written for priuate frindes And why ought they not rather being bothe of them to speake the lest men of no in famouse maners or godlesse consciences to be beleuid / affirming the same in their seuerall prefaces to the Readers / then M. Nowell withe his moste vaine and vnlikely coniectures / being allready infamouse for beelieng that learned man M. Doctour Redman / as to honest / learned / and good men yeat liuing it is notoriously knowen As for vs whome he calleth the simplest emongest the Catholikes for learning and discretion if that be true / so muche haue we the greater cause to rendre thanckes to allmighty God / who hathe preserued free from the infection of their heresies / suche a nombre no worse learned / nor of lesse discretion then we by goddes grace are Who maye when it shall please his wisdome to appointe the time / and to moue the harte of oure prince to call vs home / shewe oure selues worckemen in buylding vp that / which heretikes haue destroyed and pulled downe But I feare me and would it were not so / that euen in this pointe also / M. Nowell hathe made a Rhetoricall lye The nexte thing that he burdeneth vs withall / is common conference I woulde it were true that he laieth to oure charge If we were as To the 3. wise as we shoulde be / it shoulde be true / and we woulde in this pointe imitate our aduersaries But our sauiour hath saide it can not be false Filij huius seculi prudenâ—iores filiâ—s lucis in generatione sua sunt Lucae 16. The children of this worlde be wyser then the children of light / in their generation And so it happeneth vnto vs. But here I praie yowe good readers / marcke how he doubleth and faltreth in this tale of his / that so yow maye the better vnderstande with whome yow deale in this case First he saieth that all oure doinges be but seely translations / the whiche he maketh so easy a matter / that the meanest he saieth emongest vs haue they onlye a little vnderstanding in the latine tongue maye after this sorte loade them withe hauocke of bookes Here / forgetting that euer he spake these wordes he saieth that these bookes haue bene longe elaborated by common conference What shall we saye If this kinde of writing called by him translating M. Nowelles tongue faltreth in his lieng tale be so easy as he maketh it / what nede was there of longe or common conference / whiche thinges be onlye required in matters of greate hardenesse and difficultie What cause of feare of committing the handling of matters of suche weight to a fewe / allthough yonge men year vnderstanding the latine tongue as well as him selfe / then which / lesse knowledge by his owne confession woulde serue to loade them withe hauocke of bookes If this be true / what neded M. D. Harding or M. Rastell either / to vse the aduise of their learned frindes / to haue any suruey made by others of their doinges / seing it is well knowen / that as they are bothe hable to translate out of latine bookes before written in to theirs made in Englishe so they woulde for their wisdomes translate out of suche beside Pighius / Gropperus / Hosius / whome in this place he nameth as being neuer yeat by heretike answered / haue by the consent of
M. Nowell scoffeth at my proceding bachiler of diuinitie / this I doe him to vnderstande / that I proceded not vpon the bridge / but in the publike schooles / in the face of the whole vniuersitie / in the presence of an honorable and a learned audience I answered for my degree in two seuerall questions / theâ—rst being De primatu summi pontificis the other / An liceat homini Christiano diuertore ab vxore propter adulterium aliam ducere I disputed after the manner of the schooles / a question out of the Sentences pro contra I declaimed in the praise of the studie of diuinitie I reade for my fourme the beginning of the. 6. chap. of the first epistle of S. Paule to the Corinth And all this vnder a moste Learned president as to the worlde his sundry writinges haue made him knowen for no lesse Matthaeus Galenus Vestcappellius How I behaued my selfe in these exercises / if modestie woulde suffer it / I coulde here by the inserting of the testimonie of the vniuersitie vnd the seale therof / make it appeare to the worlde This I trust without offence being vrged therto by mine aduersary I maie be bolde to saye / yea in conscience I take my selfe bounde to saye / seing this contemptuouse abasing of me / tendeth to the only discrediting of the catholike faithe which by goddes grace I maintaine that my demeanure was suche / as neither my countrie susteined dishonour / nor my selfe dishonesty / nor the parte of the questions which I chose to defende being yeat the first of them / impugned with as learned arguments as M. Nowell hath hetherto brought any preiudice in the iudgement of the learned hearers as by the degree bestowed vpon me by the colleage of diuines / and the honest commendation giuen to me by Franciscus Balduinus pÌ„sent while I answered in the first question two houres together / afterwardes it appeared Thus muche hathe M. Nowelles slaunderouse reporte / forced me good readers to vtter of my selfe / which otherwise it coulde haue becommed me in no wise to haue done If his good Maister M. Grindall / would trye them as well and sift them as neare / whome he admitteth to preache at Powles crosse a place sometimes for bachilers and Doctours in Diuinitie as I was tryed / suche store of vnlearned but moste railing sermones / shoulde not be made there as daily there are Nowe I coulde here imitate M. Nowelles Rhetorike / were I disposed to entre in to suche vaine contentions and fruitelesse comparisons / and tell him also / that some one of his acquaintaunce who knoweth him better then I doe / merueileth also at his doinges in diuinitie matters / the knowledge whereof being neither to be founde in Rodolphes logicke wherein his greatest learning studye both was in Oxford neither in westminstre schole where Terence his comoedies will giue no place to Pawles epistles / he thinketh that he met at Geneua or elles where / with some scattred scrappes of Iohn Caluins / old / caste and ouerworne / hereticall diuinitie / or elles he thinketh he coulde neuer returning home / before he was knowen to be a student in diuinitie / become so soddenly of a meane scholemaister / so valiant a preacher Vnlesse perhappes / the same spirite that hathe created of late diuines not on the bridge but in their shoppes / or disputing vpon the alebenche for their degree so many tinckers / coblers / cowheardes / broome men / fidlers / and suche like / haue also made him a preacher emongest the rest Nowe foloweth a reason of M. Nowelles / why not prouoked The. 5. side § Now if any doe marueile as maye seme he answereth my booke written against the B. of Sarisbury I thinke no man wâ—ll merueile of his writing / and therfore he might haue saued that cost / and rather haue satisfied men in this / why writing only against fiftene leaues of my booke / he is so impudent leauing the substance vntouched / to pretende that he answereth my whole booke After this he addeth certeine other causes / why he answered no sooner / and why he proceded no furder He staied he saieth in answering / because he vnderstode at the length / that M. Doctour Harding his booke and mine were so agreable in substance / that M. Iuell who had then he hearde saye made hys answere to D. Harding readye to printe / shoulde in answering the one / in effecte haue answered both / and therfore he would in no wife preuent his good Lord. That this is a false forged cause inuented only to saue the honour of the brotherhode / who lingred so long in answering / he that hathe readen bothe oure bookes will easely perceiue For of the seconde â— proposition handled in my * That temporall princes maye not gouerne in religioÌ„ boke / it is cleare / that it hath no maner of affinitie with any article handled by D. Harding Excepte M. Nowelles discretion will serue him to saye / that if M. Iuell shoulde be able to disproue the popes supremacy / it woulde folowe thereupon that laie princes shoulde gouerne in causes of religion Whiche if lacke of due consideration shoulde moue him to saye / yeat the wisdome of other woulde not suffer them to beleue And therfore this being no article of M. Doctour Hardinges / it was neuer likely that M. Iuell woulde euer doe suche a worcke of supererogation / as to encombre him selfe any furder then occasion was giuen him Besides / if this were the cause of M. Nowelles staye / why began he then to answere me at all Forsothe he preuenteth this obiection by saing / that he knewe not before he begonne / that oure two bookes were so agreable Now forsothe a discrete wryter by his owne confession / that will begynne to answere a boke before he haue readen it ouer Is this credible good Readers And yeat thus must it nedes be were it true that he pretendeth Excepte hauing reade ouer my booke / he had not readen M. Doctours / against which neuerthelesse being longe in England or my booke came / he had vttred before his malice at Powles crosse / and therfore bylike had first readen it / or elles like wrighter like preacher But well knowe all men / that / that graue and sobre stayed heade of his / coulde not admit any suche rashe and temerariouse facte / and therfore this was but a zelouse lye / wherby to excuse the common lingring of them all / he was content to hazard his owne worship For whereas nowe he feared lest it woulde be espied / that all this patched tale is but a lewde lye / seing that he neded no more to feare to go before M. Iuell in answering my whole booke / then in answering fiftene leaues thereof / which hauing in his handes he might haue chosen whether he woulde haue deliuered to the printer or no / to helpe that he saieth For
euen nowe being come thus farre the Bishoppes answere as The 7. side § But whē I had passed the reporte went being then not fully finished and many good men muche desiring some answere and as many aduersaries as muche bragging that their bookes woulde neuer be answered the councell of some frindes and continuall bragge of so many aduersaries caused me to suffer this little taste as vntimely fruite the sooner to come abroade Yow must here imagine good Readers / that euen iust at that tyme when the reporte went that M. Iuelles answer was not fully finished / M. Nowell was come to the 15. leafe of my booke Yow must also thinke that this knowledge was brought to him by common reporte / because yowe maie not suspecte anye conference betwene them But aboue all thinges as yowe tendrelye regarde M. Nowelles pore honestie / yowe muste vnderstande two reportes / and one of them a false reporte / or elles must he be a false reporter And all this dothe M. Nowell / because for his experience he knoweth / that a lye maye better be fathered vpon reporte or common bruite / then vpon one man alone The first reporte cried as it were to M. Nowell holde youre handes for goddes sake / the B. of Sarisbury hathe killed them bothe with one blowe His answere to D. Harding is allready made / and ready to printe Herupon M. Nowell as he is a verye pitifull harted man lothe to kill them that were allready deade / by and by staied But this was false reporte / who was no soner out of sight / but in commeth the other reporte / accompanied with certeine of M. Nowelles frindes / and here began a newe crye / that he shoulde giue the onset / the bishoppes bande was not yeat ready And so he did / so harde a matter it was for him and his companions / to obteine they had gone so long vpon their credite any longre time of susteining the expectation of M. Iuelles answere / at the handes of either frindes or aduersaries / that nedes must M. Nowell be thrust furth against his will / to go before M. Iuell How likely these pretenses are to be true / time will discouer it M. Nowell staye here and goe no furder In the meane season how likely they are to be true / the wise wil be able to iudge by the circumstances of this his halting and doubtefull tale We are now come to that parte good Readers of M. Nowelles § Nowe that I haue preface / wherein he giueth certeine reasons / why he hathe so diligently largely and as it maye seme carefully also answered me whose owne doinges he affirmeth / to be more worthy of laughter then of anye earnest answere I perceiue it troubleth M. Nowell to thinke / that Demit honoem aemulus Aiaci But I pitye him the lesse / because he made the matche him selfe His reasons are / that he The first answereth not the reasons alleaged by me as mine but as D. Hardinges and not only D. Hardinges but of Eckius Pighius and Hosius yea of all those that haue written in latine for the popes vsurped power c. Lo the noble corage of M. Nowell / for whome no one man can be founde alone able to matche with him / but they must be all called furthe at once / that euer wrote in latine for the popes supremacy Which seing it is so / now be of good comforte M. Calfhill / whose Calfhill in epist. ad Martialem only sorowe yow saie was / that M. Nowell had not a more learned aduersarie Yow see that there is not only no cause of sorowe / but much occasion to reioise / that with the answering of 15. leaues of my booke / all that euer wrote for the pope shall be answered in me Where was youre witte when yow feared this Thought yow that M. Nowell woulde not prouide for suche a fowle blemishe to his honour But to the matter I am not ashamed good readers to confesse / that in writing Ipse the learned argumentes of suche as haue handled the like matter before / and that if anie reasons be weaker then other / they be those especially that be of mine owne framing And is it not so thinke yow withe M. Nowell Those emongest yow that be of the learneder sorte knowe that it is so / that in answering him I answer their Apologie / Caluin / Luther / Melancthon / Bucer / Brentius / Peter Martyr / in whose writinges the like reasons are to be founde / and that what so euer he hathe not in them / is foolishe / fonde / vnworthy to be answered The seconde The. 2. reason why M. Nowell answereth me so diligently and carefully / is he saieth / because I haue set furthe a booke sclaunderouse not to seuerall persones only but to oure whole countrie to oure lawes and to oure gratiouse Soueraigne whome he saieth I charge as vsurping vndue auctoritie sclaunderouse not at home onlye but abroade also in foraigne countries Wherefore whome so euer I shewe my selfe to be and how sclendre an answere might best become me he thought it shoulde become him not sclendrely to esteme the honour of his prince his duty to his countrye and to the lawes of the realme but with earnestnesse to repell suche reproches as I haue attempted to blemishe them withall As I haue sclaundred in my boke no priuate persons / nor saide of any one that which is not publikely knowen to be true so haue I in the whole discourse thereof / had that regarde to my duty towardes my moste redoubted soueraigne / that reuerence to her lawes / that naturall affection to my countrie / that allthough truthe of her selfe be sower and hatefull / yeat haue I bene allwaies moste far from these sclaundres wherewithe I am burdened Neither doubte I anie thinge / but if not before / yeat in that greate daye of reuelation her highnes shall moste clearely see / whether oure plaine dealing be sclaunderouse to her persone / or their hypocriticall flattry traiterouse to her soule whether he be a good bishop or no / qui laicis to vse the wordes of S. Ambrose ius sacerdotale substernit Ambr. lib. 5. epist 32. that bringeth the priestely right in subiection to laye men I charged neuer her highnesse with the vsurping of vndue auctoritie I charged those clawebackes flattring parasites for forcing vpon her grace a Fol. 28. a. in my first boke title / which Calain him selfe as I proued denied to her father And now I charge them againe for the same / and adde therunto beside / that they are the men them selues that are sclaunderouse to the Quene / to her lawes / to the whole realme First for bringing in lawes ecclesiasticall the like whereunto in all christendome are not to be founde then / for forcing vpon her grace a title / which no king or Quene christened will vse beside but aboue
A DISPROVFE OF M. NOVVELLES REPROVFE By Thomas Dorman Bachiler of Diuinitie Dignare ergo rescribere nobis vt sciamus quomodo fieri possit vt ecclesiam suam Christus de toto orbe perdiderit in vobis solit habere coeperit August ad Honorat epist 161. Vouchesaufe to write againe to vs that we maye knowe howe it can be that Christe shoulde leese his churche ouer all the worlde and beginne to haue it emongest yow onlye SPES ALIT AGRICOLAS Imprinted at Antwerp by Iohn Laet Anno Domini 1565. 3 Decembris with speciall priuileage REGIAE Maiestatis priuilegio permissum est Thomae Dormanno S. Theologiae baccalaureo vt per aliquem typographorum admissorum impunè ei liceat imprimi curare per omnes Burgundicae ditionis regiones distrahere librum inscriptum A disproufe of M. Nowelles Reproufe omnibus alijs inhibitum ne eundem absque eiusdem Thomae consensu imprimant vel alibi impressum distrahant Dat. Bruxellae 17. Octob. Anno. 1565. Subsig Pratt THE PREFACE TO THE READERS CONTEINING THE ANSWERE TO M. NOWELLES PREFACE IF as in warre where worldly titles vse by dynt of sworde to be determined / so in skirmisshes of learning / where truthe in doubtefull matters / is only attempted to be tryed out where gods glorye not mannes preferment is chiefelye sought where the limites and boundes of Christes eternall kingdome the churche / not of worldly dominions which shall perishe and haue their ende / are defended it were laufull good Readers to vse false vndermining / and Stratagemes to deceiue / to raise smokes to blinde the eyes of the simple readers / as doth the politike capitaine when to conceale the better â–ª the weakenes of his power / which being knowen to the enimie might breede boldenesse / and encrease courage / he maketh fiers of greene fearne or wette strawe / that vnder the darcke smoke thereof he maye the saufflier lye vnespied finally if in controuersies about religion / it were laufull to saye with Lisander the Lacedemonian / that where the lions Plutarch in Lacâ— skyn will not serue it maie and muste be eached withe the case of the foxe then in this respecte / the auctor perhappes of the Reproufe / might for this smoky preface of his haue deserued at youre handes / the name at the least and title of a wary and circumspect capitaine / and be thought herafter worthy / to haue the leading of a greater army then hetherto he hathe had But if on the contrary parte / as the nature of the thinges about the which in these two kinde of warres the strife is / is contrary so the maner of triall and conquest be also diuerse if truthe be strong inough of herselfe and nede not the helpe of by practises to be supported by if her bright beames disdayne to be obscured withe clowdy mystes then hathe this auctor not furthered but hindâ—eâ— his â—ause / then hathe he discouered his weakenes / not shewed his proweâ—se / then maie he be termed a cowardly souldiour / not a valiant capiteine Nowe here must I desire yow as many as will aduenture to giue iudgement of the euent of this conflicte betwene vs / to open the eyes of youre vnderstanding / and to considre the vaine smokes whereby in this preface of his he laboureth to blinde yow / and to disgrace bothe me and all suche as haue written of late in Englishe The waye yow knowe well that be of the learned sorte to bring this to passe / ought to be by comparing matter with matter / cause with cause / and reason with reason But the aduersarye forseing when it shall come to the close / and to the pointe that the matter must so be tried / how weake and feeble he is like to be founde / thought it a pointe of wisdome / first before all thinges to get by steaâ—â—h / the possession as it were of your mindes / and there leauing preiudice his lieuetenaunt / him selfe to be afterwardes occupied about the residue of his affaires For this cause he raised these foule and thicke smokes / that suche as haue written of late in englishe be but seely translatours or borowers of those bokes whose first authors they would In the firste side of his praeface seeme to be that therfore mistrusting that suche kinde of writing or rather translating should not appeare worthy to be accompted the earnest doing of any learned or wise man they haue done wittely either to pretend that to be written but lightely for a priuate frende or twayne and not ment to be printed c. or elles to appoint suche to beare the name as authors of their bookes as maie seme moste meete therefore being accompted of all that knowe them for learning and discretioÌ„ the simplest men emongest them that these bookes haue bene elaborated at conuenient oportunitie by common conference Beholde here I praie yow / the fonde coniectures that haue smoked out of M. Nowelles idle braine / wherewith he thinketh so to dymme the eyes of all men / that he maie vnder these clowdes steale when he To the 1. will in to their bosoms If no newe boke maie be made as here he semeth to mainteine because all that can be spoken is saide allready if for this cause / who so euer will wright nowe / shall be but a seely translatour Nihil est dictuÌ„ quod non est dictum priùs and borower of other maie we not iustly saie to him and all suche who be yow that obiecte to vs the translating out of other mennes latyne worckes in to oure Englishe bokes Are yowe not of the conspiracy of them / that robbed all the heretikes that euer wrote before yow / to patche vp youre clouted Apologie Is there any one sentence there that hathe not bene filched from some one heretike or other You re greate Bassa if his doinges be thus examined / is he not like to be nombred emongest M. Iuell the seely translatours If he shoulde be cruelly called vpon to restore to youre Apologie / to Musculus his common places / to his maister Peter martir his note bokes / the debte that he hathe borowed of them / might he not think yow become banckerout shortly Your selfe also / and that other that skirmisheth with the crosse of Christe / shoulde yowe be in any better case / the one of yow borowing from Caluin his in stitutions / Brentius / and suche like / the other takinge out of the historie of Magdeburg / and the Englishe homilie against images / such matter as he founde there ready framed to his handes But what speake I herof / seing that by this meanes / neither is there any newe booke nowe adayes made / neither of longe time hathe bene / or hereafter can be made For neither made Cicero the bokes De Oratore neither Plato De Legibus neyther Hipocrates his Aphorismes / neyther Aristotle his Physica because all these
all learned catholikes / and very silence of heretikes / bene so allready alowed for sounde and good / that to make any doubte therof nowe / might seme a thing alltogether nedelesse and superfluouse Now here againe I praie yowe considre / how vnlikely it is / that euer anye wise catholikes shoulde be of this minde to publishe their common deuise vnto the worlde / in the name of a fewe of the simplest sorte among them Their doinges M. Nowell saieth were taken out of the bookes of suche catholikes as had written before This being graunted / that minding to ouerthrowe heresies they woulde chooâ—e out of the worst / who is so foolishe to beleue If they chose out of the best whome enuie her selfe can not denie but to haue ben learned / to haue written learnedly / Roffensis Pighius Gropperê° Hosius Alphonsus de Castroâ— â–ª what a high pointe of policy had this bene / to make a fewe of the simplest sorte among vs / to beare the name of suche learned mennes worckes / whereas contrarywise the moste learned if they would not haue their councell bewrayed shoulde haue borne the name therof This being good Readers M. Nowelles moste fine discourse touching the late printing of certeine Englishe bookes yow see I truste / how muche he hathe set forwarde more hastely then wisely Yeat he vpon the same as a truthe moste clearely proued / bringeth in a comparison betwene the chiefe of the catholikes / and the Phariseis sending their disciples to Christe to appose him / when for feare they durst not come in presence them selues And to giue the more auctoritie herto / he bringeth the exposition of Chrisostome thereupon A solemne interpretation in a matter not necessary / and a sadde bringing in of witnesse to proue that that is not in question For till this be first proued that the catholikes had suche politike fetches as he imagineth / to resemble them to the Phariseis / and to alleage Chrisostomes interpretation vpon the place / it was to giue a sad sentence cleane beside the matter But suche is the noble courage of M. Nowell Luther must be Christ and he one of his disciples / yea though he be Iudas that betraied hys maister / who so euer saye naye / as in the processe of this Reprouffe of his / wherein nothing is with him more common / then to call vs Phariseis / and him selfe and his companions Apostles and disciples / moste euidently it dothe appeare Wherein he semeth to me I maie saie withe better right then he applieth against vs the exposition of Chrisostome to resemble very muche madde Hawkins of Bedlem / who persuadeth him selfe and woulde all other to beleue the same / that he is descended of the bloude royall / his father being well knowen to be a meane man / and a bruer of Oxforde Hetherto hathe M. Nowell in generall wordes laboured / to deface The 4. side §. and to speake the doinges of suche as haue written of late in Englishe nowe steppeth he from thence to me / against whome his speciall grudge is Of me he saieth first / that it was no greate labour to borowe out off my maister D. Harding his booke so lately before written of auctorities and reasons ready framed to my handes so muche as liked me c. secondarily / that they that doe knowe me better then he doth merueiling of my doings in diuinitie matters doe thinke that I haue all my learning not of inheritance but by legacie c. For the first he might haue beleuid me at my worde if it had pleased him / signifieng in the preface of my boke / aswell to him as to all other / that it was intended to be made / and the greatest parte therof finished / before that euer I Vnderstoode that M. Doctor Harding ment any suche thing â–ª And of this coulde I bring right good witnesse / if either I thought my credite not to be as good as M. Nowelles / or the thing it selfe imported so muche / that the triall of the truthe of the contentes of my booke dependid therupon Nowe as for them that knowing mâ— better then M. Nowell dothe / merueile at my doinges in diuinitie surely I can let no man to merueile at his owne shadowe if he list Of this I am suer / that there is no cause why I shoulde care muche for this their iudgement who so euer they be / if M. Nowell haue reported it truly For he that is so foolishe to make his account / that learning maie descende by inheritance / or be bequeathed and receauid by legacie / what were it but to be more foole then he / to care for such a fooles sentence But I beleue if the matter were well scanned / it woulde fall out to be one of M. Nowelles owne deuises / vttred nowe in the A shift to conuey a lye name of some other / because he him selfe had so lately before pronounced / that I had taken my auctorities and reasons ready framed out of M. Doctor Hardinges booke / which if I had met withe suche a legacie / it might haue seemed nedelesse to haue done But be it his / or be it whose it shall / suer I am that the auctor thereof is none of my acquaintaunce for neuer was I yeat acquainted I thanke god / with so very a foole Notwithstanding for the satisfieng of his greate merueiling / maye it please M. Nowell when he meteth him nexte if it be not him selfe to aske of him by what meanes he that was but Bachilar of arte in the same colleage that I was of / when I was bachilar of the lawe / start vp so sone a preacher at Powles crosse / and a publike reader of englishe diuinitie in the vniuersitie of Oxford May it please him furder / for the Sir Greshop remouing this scruple that so troubleth him / to demaunde of him / whether I were not as likely at that tyme in the iudgementes of as many as knewe vs bothe / within three yeares after to wright the booke that I haue written / as he was within lesse then the space of one yeare after / to occupye the place at Powles crosse / or to preach and reâ—de publikely diuinitie in Oxforde Which sermones and lessons suche as they were woulde haue made diuerse bookes he maye be holde to tell this merueiling man euery one of them by many partes greater then mine If these questions be asked / I dare assuer yow / this olde acquaintaunce shal be either thoroughly satisfied / or forced to coÌ„fesse the cause of differeÌ„ce to beâ— because as saieth Tertullian Nusquâm facilius proficitur * He meaneth the scholes of heretikes rebelling against God and his churche quâm Lib de praescript haeretic in castris rebellium vbi illic esse promereri est men come forwarde no where sooner then in the tentes of rebelles / where the very being / is to be aduaunced Where
and mine were so like in substance / that M. Iuell in one shoulde answere bothe / and that therfore his furder trauell shoulde be nedelesse whereas yowe knowe / that my seconde proposition the whole conclusion of my booke / haue no maner of agrement with any argument handled in D. Hardinges boke Yow haue heard the effecte of M. Nowelles smoky preface / wherin all his labour taken is bestowed to this end / to excuse the not speedy answering of the whole brotherhod / his own parcell answering / his so large earnest answering to so meane a man as I am / finally to deface me and other that haue written / by moste lewde / foolishe / and vntrue surmises Which neuerthelesse he aduoucheth so confidently / as though he had bene present at Louaine and priuey to all our doinges / and thoughtes / yea and to more then euer we thought toe Wherein how vaine he hath shewed him selfe to be / if nothing had bene saide allreadie / euen this that he hathe of M. Rastell / whome he affirmeth to haue had his booke lienge by him readye made foure yeares at Louayn whereas yeat he hathe bene Nowell in his praeface 3. side 35 Calfhill in his epistle to M. Martiall and praeface to the reader scarse on this side of the seas halfe foure yeare / at Louain wheÌ„ he printed his booke not foure full monethes were alone sufficient to declare This deceitfull dealing of his / by defacing vs to the world / liked so wel hym that came nexte after him to wrighte / that he thought his parte not to be wel plaied / vnlesse he endeuoured also inforced him selfe to doe the like And for this cause forsothe ruffling in the figure of Ruffinisâ—us he calleth M. Doctor Harding * How muche better woulde this name haue becoÌ„med M. Iuell that of a catholike became an heretike of an heretike a catholike of a catholike an heretike againe Apostata at my name he scoffeth calling me worthy Man who gaue but a Dor. M. Rastelles because it laye not so open to his scoffing spirite / he depraued vttrely / calling him Rascall But o I woulde it might please almighty God / who hathe bestowed vpon him whome he so calleth / so bountifully so manye excellent giftes of vertue and learning / that they were bothe thoroughly knowen to the worlde for suche as they are Then shoulde M. Rastell to speake the leaste / be founde to be as farre in all respectes from all base and vile condition / as this shamelesse man is him selfe from all honesty and Christian-like behauiour in so calling hym To M. Stapleton this painted poppet threateneth drye blowes / yeat wisely vnder an if / and in the name of an other The booke of Staphylus he compareth to a Ruffians sworde al to be hacked / calling by the waie a moste learned and graue councelour to the late Emperour Ferdinandus / Ruffian In dede there was a rude blacke * Iacobus Smidelinus smythe / that did the best he coulde to breake the edge and to leaue soâ—e gashes in this sworde / but those litle nickes that he made / the * Staphyl In defens Apolâ—g Calf fol. 17. b. 33. owner therof grounde out so conningly againe / that the edge of it was after more sharpe then euer it was before Lest al this should not be inough to discredite vs / last of all he chargeth suche of vs as being in Louain haue ben of newe colleage / withe the smoky styrres blowen in Scotland the fyry factions inflamed in Fraunce the Pholish treason condemned in England the popishe conspiracy attempted in Ireland Commeth not this thinke you of a high wit / and a greate discoursing heade Thankes be to God it is yeat no horned beaste that assaulteth vs thus cruelly He chargeth vs with gaping for bishoprikes / but surely if hym selfe laboured not ambitiously to be chiefe councelour to some lorde of misrule at Christmas / he woulde neuer haue stremed so farre the streightes of his simple brayne / as by this moste singuler discourse vpon these late troubles and treasons which beside him selfe neuer a man I beleue in England coulde haue dreamed of to giue a moste vndoubted experiment / what wonders he were able to worcke by his witte / if he listed to bende it But this is the lewdenesse of oure aduersaries / when to the doctrine that we defende they are able to saye nothing / to deface as muche as in them lieth our persones by vntrue surmises / by false and sclaunderouse reportes / by all meanes directe or indirecte For this they are once as it should seme by their doinges persuaded howe trulye God he knoweth that they shall be able to write nothing so absurde / that shall not with some get credite / and finde frendely entreteinement Wherfore this is good Readers the common request of vs all vnto yow / that reiecting vttrely these vaine / vntrue / and impertinenent exceptions of oure aduersaries / whereof youre eares be longe since full / it may please yow to haue a diligent eye to the matter it selfe / and not to suffer youre selues to be thus shamfully abused / and caried from thence to suche sciendre considerations as are these whether the writers be yong men / or olde many in conference / or fewe alone whether they wright in shorte space / or take long leisour whether they translate or make of their owne For surelye they that propose these exceptions / as it is an euident argument that they mistrust their cause / so seme they not to sauour of the spirite of humilitie / which seketh nothing but the honour and glorye If S. Cyprian writing this epistle to Cornelius the B. of Rome M. suell in his Replye fo 228. beginneth to â—hrincke from his chalenge name him either the high prieste or christes vicair generall in earthe or vniuersall bishop or head of the vniuersal church c. then may M. Harding seme to haue some honest colour for his defence For these respectes therfore I saie / and other which here for good causes I conceale / it hathe ben thought good to requier yowe / to signifie to vs / whether yowe will ratifie the doctrine conteined in that boke made against the crosse / lest after yow flee to the Praetor his exception Quod nomine meo gestum non est raiuÌ„ noÌ„ habebo It is reason that we demaunde / and it is lawe Consulte youre lawier so well knowen in Oxforde for his three giftes of heresye / frenesy and Ialousy / and he will tell yow no lesse When we vnderstande youre minde herein / yowe shall knowe more of oures It woulde doe well that yow declared it at Powles crosse / from whence we are contented to take notice the rather / because we trust yow will saie nothing there / but that whereto yow will stande hereafter Faultes escaped in printing Leafe Syde Lyne Faulte Correction 23 a 25
the which before they fledde but of this by ioyning bothe the swordes together the spirituall and the temporall the rather to vanquishe and discomfite the enemie But nowe if it were so that emongest the rest the bishop of Rome had bene comprehended in this epistle yeat the calling of him brother or felowe in the ministerie is no cause to conclude as you doe against his auctoritie For neither doe I nowe nor euer hathe anie Catholike hetherto so defended or mainteined the popes supremacy that it hathe not bene allwaies acknowledged that bothe he and other bishoppes be the ministres of one common maister allthough that maister haue made him the ruler of his felowes and ouerseer of his brethren Yea the popes them selues haue euer vsed to call the other bishoppes their brethern and felowe bishoppes not renouncing therby the auctoritie of their seate What marueile is it therfore if the bisshoppes of the East had called the pope emongest the other to whome they wrote brother and felowe in the ministerie by the which name he calleth him selfe it can not be denied Nowe where M. Dorman speaketh of persecution as he dyd Nowell Fo. 13. a. 13 alittle before of oure moste cruell practise I referre it to the iudgement of all the worlde whether the papistes or we be more cruell persecutours and wheather haue suffred more persecution they or we If they be more cruell persecutours that lacking power Dorman shewe notwithstanding more crueltie in wordes then other doe in deedes if their crueltie be greater who punishe beside and against lawe then theirs who folowe lawe if it be no crueltie at all to punishe a fewe to saue the nombre by terrour of lighter paines to vse the wordes of S. Austen to â—ib de vinit eccl cap. 17. the Donatistes complaining of the Catholikes as you doe nowe to preserue from greater euills then is the matter iudged allreadie in all vpright iudgement then nedeth there no furder processe As for the lenitie by the which you woulde commende youre selues to the worlde youre charitable sermones made aswell before the Quenes moste excellent maiestie at the courte as before the nobles and other honorable of the Realme at the Crosse in the which yow haue consumed all youre eloquence to prouoke oure moste gratiouse soueraigne to imbrue her chaste and vnspotted handes with the innocent bloude of true Catholikes hathe long since made that wel knowen to the worlde So that I maye nowe truly saye to yow as did S. Austen to certeine heretikes in his time bragging of their lenitie towardes the catholikes as you doe of youres Nulla bestia si Epist. 48. neminem vulneret propterea mansueta dicitur quia dentes vngues non habet Seuire vos nolle dicitis ego non posse arbitror No beaste if he wounde no man is therfore called tame because he lacketh teethe and nailes you saye you will vse no crueltie I thinke yow can not Is not this youre verie case M. Nowell See you not a perfect pattern of youre pitie a copy of youre dissembled and countrefeite kindenesse O were youre murdering mouthes by oure most gratiouse Souereignes commaundement vnmoosseled which god for her sake forbid youre bloud thirsty handes at libertie how woulde these tame beastes bestirre them You saye that I go about to burthen you with enuie of churches either pulled downe or altered to other vses and of altars Nowell a. 12. destroied muche like as the rebelles did burthen king Henry the eight c. How the rebelles burdened king Henry or whether Dorman they burdened him at all or no as you saye they did I will not entremedle my selfe therein Of this I am suer that you be burdened of me none otherwise then S. Hierome burdened the Hunnes and wandalles being infected Epist ad HeliodoruÌ„ with Arrius heresie when he wrote of them after this sorte The churches be ouerthrowen at the altars be horses stabled and a litle after Howe manye monasteries be their taken And againe none otherwise then Optatus the bishop of Lib. 6. coÌ„â—â—â— Donatist Mileuite in Afrike burdened the Donatistes there doing the like when he tolde them that there coulde be no greater sacrilege then to breake shaue and remoue cleane away the altars off God on the whicht bothe they them selues some tymes had offred and the prayers off the people and membres off Christ were caried As for youre excuse that you make why Abbayes were ouerthrowen in oure countrye it is not trulie muche pertinent to oure purpose in this place For had it bene all true whereof the greatest parte was moste certeinely false that you sclaunderously and falsely laied to the charges of religiouse men emongest whome as there were manie offendours euen those that haue bene since in England greate pillers and in youre newe churche chiefe fauourers of youre newe religion so were there manie innocent and good who ceassed not daie and night to lament the disordred life of those other their brethren to praie most earnestly to almighty god for their sinnes and the sinnes of the people yeat was this no cause sufficient to turne vp the churches to ouerthrowe the altars Which you youre selfe also perceiuing and knowing that aswell in king Henries time those good fathers of the Chartrehouse as in the late reigne of Quene Marie bothe they in Shene the moÌ„ckes of westminstre the Franciscanes of Grenewich the preachers of S. Bartilmewes the nonnes of Sion and Dertford liued euery ordre so honestlie in all vertue and godlines according to their rule that manie wer edified by their good examples none offeÌ„did by their euil yow flee to an other shifte against the fundations off suche religiouse houses forsothe Which because you say were laied vpoÌ„ prayer for the redemption Nowell fol. 13. 2. 23. of the soules of their founders and their progenitours soules c. Were so vnsuer and weake or rather wicked that they coulde no longre beare suche huge superstructions and buildinges as were laied vpon them Well suche fundations maye be well counted weake Dorman or rather wicked by wicked Aerius who was condeÌ„ned for Aug. lib. de haeresib haer 53. lib. 3. haere 75. the like heresie as witnesse bothe S. Austen and Ephiphanius aboue 12. hundred yeares since But to all good Christian men they seme and euer haue done proufitable and meritoriouse as to him that will take the paines to reade the boke of late learnedly written of purgatorye it shall I doubt not euideÌ„tly appeare Beside that by this meanes our colleages at home in the vniuersities yea your cathedrall churche and Deanery it selfe M. Nowell might be in some daunger to be ouerthrowen if you fal to suche scanning of their first fundations Here you compell me to entre with you into a disputation about altars And for the iustifieng of your communion Fol. 14. b. Altars Nowell 1. Cor. 10. table you alleage first that oure sauiour instituted the sacrament at a
together stande in some stede You go forwarde and saye For the which it pleaseth D. Harding to call the Aricans emongest Nowell ◠25. whom S. Austen Orosius and Prosper with manie other learned and godly bishoppes were schismatikes as those that submitted not their neckes to the pope and folowing Hosius his auctor he saith that Africa cōtinued in this schisme 100. yeares to wit from Boniface the first to Boniface the seconde M. Doctour Harding neuer mentto inuolue S. Austen Dorman Orosius or Prosper in anie schisme with the Africanes For as at this councell it appeareth not in the recordes thereof that Orosius who neuer was bishop but only a prieste and therfore could giue no definitiue voice in the councell that cōsisted of only bishoppes or Prosper either were present so is it more then probable that S. Austen who to the first epistle sent to Bonifacius gaue his consent and subscribed with other wherein they protested to obserue all thinges demaunded by the pope till they coulde get from the Easte the true copies of the councell of Nice it is I saie more then probable that forasmoche as in this latter epistle to Celestinus no mention is made of him at all notwithstanding that he was legat for Numidia his name so famouse his bisshoprike so greate that he sawe in the meane season so muche right in the bishop of Romes cause and so little in the other allthough by no meanes their doinges tended to the vniuersall abrogating of the popes auctoritie that he refused so muche as to put his name or suffer him selfe to be named in those lettres of theirs So that before yow had charged M. D. Harding thus odiously you ought to haue proued that suche a decree was made in the African councell and haue noted to vs the canon then that Orosius and Prosper were present at the making thereof and gaue their consentes therto Last because yow seing that the decree of the councell was not to be founde referred youre selfe to the epistle written to Celestinus yow shoulde haue tolde vs in what wordes there the mention of this decree laie hidden and proued allthough S. Austens name be not there mentioned that yeat he consented therto Againe M. Nowell whē this matter betwene the B. of Rome and the Africanes began first to be called in question it was entreated with suche humilitie and submission by the Africanes as appeareth by this epistle to Celestinus that they coulde by no meanes be accounted schismatikes Afterwardes in dede the matter grewe so farre that it burst out in to open schisme and so continued to the time of Boniface the 2. To the which schisme that euer S. Austen Orosius or Prosper consented or any other good catholike prieste or bishop yow shall neuer be able to proue And so this lye with that houge Lye 43. heape of all the rest remaineth with you and the truth with vs. But because you bragge as you doe of the companie of S. Austen and Prosper and sclaundre them to the worlde to be schismatikes I will in defence of their innocency alleage out of their workes so muche as shall I trust with the better sorte suffice for their purgation Who is it I praie you M. Nowell that saieth of the church of Rome that in it the principalitie of the apostolike chaire hathe August epist 162. euer florished Who calleth Bonifacius the same in whose time this controuersie was moued the bishoppe that hathe Lib. 1. contra 2. epis Pelag. ca. 1 the preeminence in the bishoply care aboue all other Who calleth the See of Rome alluding to the wordes of Christe in the Psalm contra partē Donat. gospel the rock which the proude gates of hell shal not ouercome Who but S. Austē whom you be not here ashamed to matche with your selfe as thinking of the pope and See of Rome as heretically as you doe To come to Prosper when you here him acknowledg that Zozimus of whom all this talke riseth added to the decrees of the African councelles sententiae suae robur the strength and force of his sentence Lib. contra Collatorem cap. 41. that with Peters sworde to the cutting of of wicked men he armed the right handes of all bishoppes for so are his wordes in Latine ad impiorum detruncationem gladio Petri dexteras omnium armauit antistitum When you are not ignoraunt if you knowe anye thinge that the same Prosper saieth Lib. contra Collatorem cap. 10. that the holye See of Rome spake to all the worlde by the mouthe of Zozimus Will you not for shame call backe againe that wretched sclaunderouse lye off youres that Prosper shoulde be touching the bishoppe of Rome of the same minde that yow are Was Zozimus taken off Prosper to be a corrupter and falsarye a countrefeite catholike and in deede a false schismatike from Christe and the truthe as youre venimouse tongue hath not feared to pronounce of him Is fier more contrary to water then is this iudgemēt of youres to that of Prospers for his vertue and auctoritie You pretend that the fathers of the coūcel of Carthage would barre Zozimus of al auctority Prosper telleth vs that so much he was estemed of them that they had the strength of his sentence added to their decrees as muche to saye as to confirme and alowe them You call him a corrupter a falsarie a countrefeite catholike a false schismatike Prosper calleth him one that armed the right handes of al bishoppes with Peters sworde to cut of wicked mē from the rest of Christes mistical body the church You restreine his power to Rome Prosper confesseth that by his mouthe the See of Rome spake to all the worlde If this be not more then impudencie good reader in M. Nowel then what is impudencie I confesse I know not But acknowledged Prosper this auctoritie in Zozimus onely no verilye For in Celestinus to whome this epistle here mentioned was sent from the African bishoppes he witnesseth that there was suche power that he cured the Iland The pope meddled in England Scotland Fraunce and in the East off Britannye infected with Pelagius heresie that he ordeined Palladius bishoppe ouer the Scottishe men that with the Apostolicall sworde he aided Cirillus the B. of Alexandria to purge the churches of the East of a double plague the Nestorians and Pelagians that in Fraunce he put them to silence who reported euill of S. Augustins writinges Finally to them that reiected certeine bookes of S. Augustins vpon pretence that they were not allowed by the pope he answered An exception in the primitiue churche againste bookes that they were not allowed by the Pope Ibid. ca. 43 in this wise Agnoscāt calumniatores superfluò se obijcere quòd his libris non speciale neque discretum testimonium si◠perhibitum quorum in cunctis voluminibus norma laudatur Apostolica enim sedes quod a praecognitis sibi non discrepat cum praecognitis probat
sprong vp euen with youre first maister and his scholers as youre selues can not denie and departe from Christes knowen churche or elles Christe had no churche at all as those disciples off Christe that you speake off did With whom youre resemblaunce is so muche the greater because that as these first heretikes departed from the church Christe and his Apostles because they would not beleue in Christes doctrine of the blessed sacrament so haue you parted a greate nombre of yow from vs for the same cause and mainteine the same heresie as S. Augustine In psalm 54. calleth it Nowe as it were no good reason to proue vs schismatikes because yow are parted from vs being onoe as yow can not denye of vs so can no man iustly charge Christe and his Apostles with that crime because his disciples parted from him And as I answere to this so doe I to youre other obiections of the schismatikes in S. Paules time of those other also of the Nicolaites the Simonians Cerinthians c. who all parting from the knowen churche of Christe ought not to preiudicate the same For their departure was alwaies so sensible that the true christian might saye with S. Iohn They haue departed from emongest Ioan. 1. cap. 2. vs but they were none of vs. The Apostles and their companye remained alwaies a visible and knowen churche So that these examples can nothing helpe to couer your schismaticall sores whereas in Christe and the Apostles them selues there was neuer anye breache of vnitie whiche yow shoulde haue proued lykewyse therby to excuse your first Christ and his Apostles Whereas an other plea of youres is that emongest the high priestes and Phariseis there was no dissention but greate vnity and concorde emongest them against Christes Apostles to that I saye that although they agreed in this all to persecute the Apostles yeat emongest them selues they were Ioseph lib. Antiq. Iudaie 13. cap. 8. diuided into sectes and schismes some being called Phariseis other some Sadduces and yeat a thirde secte called Esseni so that they resemble more liuely yow protestantes then vs catholikes agreing as the Phariseis did against the truthe and diuided also with them into sectes emongest youreselues If you departed from vs as Christ and the Apostles you saie did from the high priestes and their churche then should you be at vnitie and concorde emoÌ„gest your selues as the Apostles were then must you shewe out of the scripture the fall of the churche of Christe the corruption of Esaiae 6â— the same and the restitution in the latter daies to come all Esaiae 66. Hierem. 6. Ezech. 44 Habacuc 2. Act. 7. 13. 28. foreprophecied in the lawe as the Apostles proued oute of the scripture the fall of the Sinagoge the corruption of the high priestes the comming of Messias the placing of the newe lawe that shoulde continue When yowe can proue this and defeate Christes promise made of his churche to be visible and vniuersall ouer all the worlde and to his churche to continue for euer then call vs phariseis hardely Matth. 16. and spare not calle youre selues Christe and his apostles we giue yow leaue For furder excuse of your schismes and diuisions yow fo 56. b. 1. tell vs of the troubles that rose in Iurie and shortly after ouer all the world vpoÌ„ the preaching of Christes gospell c. If diuisions and troubles were then it is not to be merueiled at oure sauiour him selfe saing of him selfe non veni pacem Matth. 10. mittere sed gladium I come not to sende peace but a sworde But oure age is not nowe M. Nowell the primitiue churche oure faithe is not nowe to be begonne of newe It hathe bene with consent of all the worlde established these 12. hundred yeares And therefore youre comparison is lewde and vntrue Yow saie furder And as iustly might yow charge the Apostles and their doctrine Nowell with those schismes sectes and troubles as yow do charge vs with those that haue risen in oure dayes Euer yow harpe vpon that string that yow woulde be Dorman like the apostles which when yow can proue that Christ promised to builde an other churche beside that whereof he made Peter the heade and that frier Martine Luther shoulde be the seconde Messias and Zuinglius or Carolstadius the heade therof then we will easely graunte to you But note againe I praie yow M. Nowell the difference of the schismes arising in the Apostles time and of youre schismes arising in our time The Apostles were not at diuision emongest them selues yow are The Apostles were before those schismes yowe haue risen together with the schismes Those schismes departed out from the Apostles your schismes are within youre selues Againe see the agrement of those schismes with youres and confer the case of the state of the churche nowe with that of the primitiue churche then Those schismes and sectes departed out off the primitiue churche euen so haue yow departed nowe oute of the same churche being of longre continuance They being departed multiplied into mo schismes and parted into farder diuision yow being departed multiply daily from schisme to schisme and newe sectes haue risen sence youre departure from Martin Luther They troubled and disquieted the primitiue church of the Apostles yow trouble and disquiet the catholike churche that nowe is If you demaunde the prouffe of this which I saie answer the booke which I am suer yow will neuer be hable to answere lately set furthe in oure tongue moste truly called The forteresse of the faithe c. And shewe vs as you will stande to it hereafter when the faith and light of goddes holy word which yow saie hathe nowe of late sprong againe was extinguished where and by whome Where it is well knowen to the worlde that oure learned men Nowell haue by their writinges more oppugned and repressed the saide sectes then all the papistes haue done This is that whiche I saide before that yow in dede Dorman wright diligently one against an other which is a moste euident assurance of youre dissention in doctrine And if these youre writinges were in the vulgare tongues to be reade of all men there woulde be no better argument in the worlde to disgrace youre doctrine for euer Whereas yow compare your diligence in writing with that of the catholikes if the late writinges of learned catholikes of all countries especially of Germanie it selfe were in dede compared to youres it shoulde appeare howe false and vntrue this is In dede we must nedes confesse a truthe that whilest we all remained Nowell vnder this quiet obedience of youre Romishe heade in one doctrine of his traditions there was a coloured kinde of quiâ—tnesse c. Foelix necessitas quae cogit ad meliora Happye is the Dorman necessitie whiche forceth to the better Here M. Nowell correcting him selfe for that before he charged vs so heynously withe schismes and sectes wyll somewhat
58. a. youre sclaunders of schismes and troubles as by vs raised doe we alleage the effecte of the same parable of the stronge man so quiet in his house vntill a strongre then he came and disturbed him whiche Christe oure sauiour in like sclaunder rehearsed for defense of himselfe Although the parable serued our Sauioure against the Dorman Phariseis yeat it serueth not yow against the churche off Christe When yow can proue that which yow only without proufe blasphemously hetherto haue affirmed making it aswell of the application of this parable as of all that you elles haue sayde touching comparing of vs to the Phariseis youre selues to Christe and his Apostles the verye foundation that all faitheful Christians were in that case when Martin Luther beganne first to preache that the Phariseis were at the comming of Christe then applye it and vse it it will wel serue your purpose Yeat truly to make this parable in some wise to serue youre turne it maketh well for youre Sacramentaries againste the poore Lutherans whome you haue in dede not onely disquieted but driuen from their possessions in moste places and deuoured also and swalowed into your hongresteruen paunches euen as is saide that Pharao dreamed of the seuen leane carion oxen that they had eaten vp the fatte And so let Gen. cap. 41. this parable and dreame bothe if you wil serue youre turne Iff the reader shall thinke that I haue bene to tediouse in answering Nowell this matter here but touched as it were by the waye I trust he will beare with me therein for that M. Dorman as he began and floorished the first face of his boke with blotting vs with the sclaunder of schismes so hathe he hetherto continued in the same and applied all his allegations out of S. Cipriā Basile Hierome Nicephorus and others chiefely to that purpose c. The reader must beare with yow in mo thinges then Dorman this or elles it will be wrong with yow And euen in this me thinketh and so I doubt not but other thinke to wherin yow craue pardon as hauing sayde to much he had ned◠to beare with you for saing so little For your owne defence till yow proue vs by Scripture that Christes churche shoulde decaie and come to vtter ruine and that so it dyd yow haue sayde nothing against vs till yow bring better matter then different opinions of schoolemen in disputable matters of Logiciners aboute the predicables of religiouse men in clothing diet going becking bowing c. yow haue sayde as little The first sentence that I prefixed before my booke out of Saint Augustine yow haue not yeat answered If yow had answered it there as yow pretended that you woulde you shoulde not haue neded here to haue troubled either youre selfe or the reader with that matter For answere once directly yea or nay to this whether yow communicate with all nations and with those churches founded by the Apostles labour and the matter is answered who be the schismatikes in fewe wordes you or we Where you saye that my allegations out of S. Cyprian Basile Hierome Nicephorus were applyed chiefly to this to note you of schismes I muste note that you be here contrarye to youre selfe and youre sainges before For M. Nowell contrary to him selfe in youre reproufe vpon these places you make me to haue suche sense as though I had alleaged them all directly to proue the popes supremacy And for that cause you labour with toothe and naile to proue that they ought not so to be taken Neither are they contented here with but doe also plaie with Nowell pictures very pleasantly as they thinke in the which they painte out a multitude of suche heretikes or rebelles as oure confederates or allies whose opinions we do moste abhorre and against whome we continually bothe preache and wrighte Yea forsothe this was the matter in deede allthough Dorman yow be lothe to confesse so muche that made yowe to lauish out youre store in defence of schismes and sectes It was this table this arbor as you call it or crooked tree that made yow to daunce But what saie yow to this tree I praie yow Yow saie that we haue placed there a multitude of heretikes whose opinions yowe doe moste abhorre We marueile not though yow like not all for therein standeth the grace of the table that of so manie sectes as be there set out no one of them liketh the other Yowe shoulde haue done well to haue named the opinions which yow doe abhorre as perhappes yow would had it not bene for waking some of youre felowes that seme to be a sleepe That these sectes appeare not all of them euidently emongest yow as they doe in Germanie where youre heresies first beganne VVhy sectes and schismes shewe not them selues so euidently in Englande as they doe in Germanie as that excuseth yow not being all membres of that malignant churche youre mother so is it the lesse to be merueiled at because the states of these two countries are not like England is ruled by one souereigne heade Germanie by diuerse Which is the cause that the heades being diuersly affected in religion auaunce euery of them that religion whiche liketh him best Whereas in Englande yow lacke that commoditie being vnder the rule of one only heade whiche is an inuincible argument to shewe how necessarie in the churche of God it is to haue one heade to gouerne the reast Had yow in Englande as they haue in Germanie your free cities youre dukes youre Lantgraues youre Palsgraues euery one a king within his owne dominions O how yowre sectes woulde triumphe in the courtes of princes what combattes they would kepe in open pulpites that nowe dare not but by steal the and in corners one of them snatche and snarle at the other As for youre continuall preaching and writing against these sectes whereof yowe bragge so muche what yow preache against the Lutherans Anabaptistes Osiandrins or any suche like I reporte me to them which be youre hearers I thinke what so euer face yow set vpon it here yow be colde and rare inough in that argument and be as plentifull and whot as you will yow shall haue these heretikes and suche other in places where they dare saie as muche of yowe As for youre writing yow protestantes at home haue not written anie one worde that is to be sene abroade against anye secte of the table more then in some sely translations of youre felowes bookes as yowe terme by contempte that kinde of excercise So busy yowe are in doing the message of youre father in setting furth to the worlde youre Sacramentarie heresie and defacing the popes auctoritie that as little leisour haue you to wright against other sectes if yow mislike them as yow pretende as yow haue to exhorte mē by preaching to fasting to praier to good worckes And therefore youre writing I let passe as a manifest Lye 51. lye And all
gouerne all the worlde This fonde reason of youres hath bene sufficiently answered The 11. and 12. chap. It is in dede the effect of youre whole answere in this youre Reprouse as yow call it Yeat haue yow not so greate a clercke yow are in youre whole boke brought so muche as one pore sely reason for the confirmation of it But yow as if yow were in the pulpite tanquam auctoritatem habens affirme manie thinges stoutely and wil be beleued at youre worde without reason or proufe at all Where yow saie There is no confusion in the worlde nor disordre Nowell a. 13. for that sundry partes of it haue sundry ciuile gouernours Surelie youre wittes failed yow muche and yow nodded Dorman a little M. Nowell For what wise man seeth not what learned man readeth not of yearelie and almost daily batailes quarelles contentions bloudeshead conspiracies and of infinite suche disordre to be in the worlde at this present and to haue allwaies bene by the reason of sundrie ciuile gouernours Oure Sauiour when it pleased him to take fleshe and redeme man chose that state wherein moste quiete and rest shoulde be that men might so the better attende to the preaching of goddes word which by warres and tumultuouse hurly burlies can not but be hindred He chose to come at that time when but 15. yeares before the whole knowen worlde of Europe Asia and Afrike was vnder the obedience of one Romaine emperour Octauius Augustus In that state the worlde was ruled certeine hundred yeares after vntill the Christian faithe was published and dilated vnto all the partes of the worlde Doe we not reade M. Nowell that the same emperour August bis clausit Ianum as muche to saie had twise in his daies a perfecte Alexander ab Alexandro lib. 1. Gema dier cap. 14. peace thorough out all the partes of the worlde yea thrise as some write Before that state of one vniuersall Emperour was and sence that state hath decaied how manie warres haue bene to the disquieting of all Christendome stirred vp How manie battailes cruelly fought How muche innocent bloude vnmercifully spilt What one yeare in one place of the worlde or other hath not plentifully brought furthe suche fruites as these are Are not all histories full Haue we not daily experience Haue we not hearde of the Turkes warres scarse yeat colde against vs at the Isle off Malta of the late warres in Fraunce and Scotland of allmoste the continuall warres in the daies of Charles the fifthe now with Fraunce nowe against the Mores nowe in Germanie now in Italie it selfe All this is but in one parte of Europa If we had before oure eyes the actes of other countries how muche might be saide thereof And yeat M. Nowell as though all the worlde were shutt vpp in the house where he dwelleth at Poules saieth there is no confusion in the worlde nor disordre for that sundrie partes of the same haue sundrie ciuile gouernours This is I confesse a matter more mete for some practised Counselour to debate then for scholers suche as I am professing no such policie to entreate of It reacheth I wote well beyonde the compasse of my discourse to saie herein but some small parte of that which might be saied Yeat this small note shall I trust be sufficient to instructe the ignorant and hable to moue the learned to farder consideration Yow saie the scriptures declare it to be so appointed by Nowell a. 16. God that sundrie partes of the worlde shoulde haue sundrie ciuile gouernours Eccles 17 So hathe the churche toe sundrie seuerall gouernours Dorman in sundrie seuerall diocesses and yeat one chiefe heade ouer all notwithstanding And therefore that texte might be verified well inough allthough there were one generall Emperour or other ruler ouer all the worlde And suerlie if this place of Ecclesiasticus were so to be vnderstande as that it did forbid the hauing of one generall ruler ouer the whole neuer woulde yowe maie be suer oure Sauiour haue chosen that time to be borne in and that for a speciall liking as al writers agree that he had in that state of gouernement that then was But if it were so that God had appointed the ordre of the worlde to be suche as that there should be of necessitie in euerie particuler countrie a particuler heade and no one ouer the whole which negatiue wordes the scripture hathe not yeat might there be a secrete cause of goddes prouidence why this ordre shoulde be rather in worldly gouernement then in spirituall whiche we be not worthy to knowe Perhappes to be a punishement for sinne this ordre was taken that one off vs might be a whippe and scourge to the other whiche allthough God by his iustice doe to oure bodies thorough battaile and warre punishing them yeat woulde he not of his mercie so punishe by schismes and heresies oure soules You note to the Reader after the Hagiographa in the English The booke of Ecclesiasticus reiected by the protâ—stants alleaged Bibles that this boke of Ecclesiasticus is of the noÌ„bre of theÌ„ that are not to be alleaged for the proufe of doctrine Nowe what double dealing is this I praye you M. Nowell there to reproue it and here to alleage it and grounde a doctrine vpon it neuer hearde of before to witte that of necessitie euerie countrie must haue a seuerall supreme gouernour If you shoulde preache openly this doctrine in pulpite M. Nowell how soone woulde you either proue a traitour your selfe or make other traitours For were it not thinke you a faulte to the crowne of EnglaÌ„d in the nature of high treason to saie that Ireland being a seuerall countrie diuided from England by the maine Ocean ought to haue a seuerall gouernour other then Englishe Were it not treason for youre brethren protestantes of these lowe countries to preache by this texte as you write that because Spaine and Flaundres be farre diuerse and seuerall countries for this cause they ought not to be vnder one heade prince and kinge as they are Therefore if you loue the quiet of the realme and esteme youre dutie to youre souereigne and oures twange no more vpon that stringe I warne you like a frende You prosecute youre fonde argument and saye So is their no disordre that seuerall churches haue seueral bisshoppes to their heades Nowell a. 17. No disordre at all but moste conuenient ordre if those Dorman seuerall bishoppes obeye the one heade placed by Christe ouer them But to make those seuerall bishoppes to rule the seuerall churches without recourse when occasion shall requier to a higher as you doe we saye it is a greate disordre To returne to Nazianzene his saing where is no rule there Nowell a. 27. b. 1. is no ordre where many rule there is sedition you saye that if manie magistrates haue equall auctoritie in one common wealthe or if manie ecclesiasticall persones haue equall auctoritie in
or some other like vnto it If this were not youre meaning M. Nowell why cut you of the worde quaÌ„uis at the beginning and these other in the middest Tell vs some other cause if you can Next after these auctorities you alleage a treatie of one fo 73. a. Borowed of the coÌ„fession of wittenberge Tit. de Eccles that you set furth Rhetorically calling him an auncient auctor printed withe Chrisostome and of long time taken for him to proue that the churche must be tried by the scriptures To this place I answere that whether it be Chrisostomes owne worcke from whence it is taken or no this is a thing moste certeine that it is to be warily readen as the boke which hath thrust into it if it be Chrisostomes owne or anie other catholike mannes by some false Arrian heretike manie poisoned and perniciouse sentences for the maintenaunce of the Arrians heresie Emongest other to note to you one or two euen in the. 48. homilie whiche is the verie nexte before this that you alleage here the Catholikes for mainteining the equalitie of Christe with God the father are nombred emongest heretikes and in the. 45. they are called heretikes that holde that the blessed trinitie is equall of like substance and auctoritie And therefore in suche places as this auctor who so euer it be dissenteth from the common faithe of Christes churche we haue iust cause to suspect that there this heretike who hath it appeareth ouerronne the whole hath dipped in his fingres and therefore that we reiect As in this place it is likely that he thought to make a waie for his heresies by chalenging to be tried by the scripture onelie the common request of the Arrian heretikes because the worde they saide Homousion was not to be founde in the scriptures But nowe if these wordes were Chrisostomes owne and not put in by the heretike yeat foloweth it not that because the churche is to be tried by the scriptures onelie that therefore all other questions maie be decided by the same alone For God whose wisedome diuised whose holie spirite brethed whose finger wrote the scriptures as for heretikes that coÌ„temne the auctoritie of the churche he hath so disposed them as Tertullian writeth that they might ministre them Lib. de praescript aduers haeres matter so hathe he againe for them that shal be content humblie to rest in the lappe of the same made that matter by the scriptures so clere that a catholike man maie be bolde to prouoke an heretike yea all the heretikes in the worlde to dispute by scripture onelie of that question whiche and where is the true churche And suerlie so was it expedient that it shoulde be that the churche whiche shoulde iudge of the true sense and meaning of the scriptures shoulde by the scriptures be so euidentlie proued that about that their might be no wrangling As it is not to be merueiled therefore if anie catholike man giue councell to proue the church by the scriptures the scriptures speaking of the churche as hath S. Austen more plainelie then they â—narrat in psal 30 doe of Christe him selfe and therto being writteÌ„ so euideÌ„tly that the textes making for the trial therof nede no interpretatioÌ„ Lib. de vnitate ecdes ca. 16 so can you not reason that all other controuersies in semblable wise must be tried by the scripture because the scripture is more ambiguouse in other maters and because the church is proued so plainelie that it might afterwarde hauing the continuall assistence of Goddes holie spirite and being the piller of truthe assuer vs being in doubte of the true meaning of scripture And thus muche for answere to your long place alleaged to so little purpose out of that auncient auctor printed withe Chrisostome and of long time takeÌ„ for him By whose auctoritie lest the worekes of S. Clement making so muche against youre newe A sleight of M. nowells doctrine might get anie credite being here alleaged by this auncient auctor printed with Chrisostome and of long time taken for him you toke youre pen in to youre hande and cut that sentence clene awaie Hauing nowe spent youre store of testimonies brought fo 74. b. 9 by you to proue that the scripture alone ought to be the iudge of all controuersies you returne to youre olde plea so often auouched and neuer proued that we be the phariseis and therfore can not be the true churche of god that you alleage scriptures against vs as the Apostles did against the phariseis of whom and vs you saye furder as foloweth And I am suer that the high prieste withe his Iuishe churche Nowell b. 29. was able to saye as muche for the ordinarie succession of the highe priestes his predecessours euen from Aaron vntill his time for antiquitie for consent and for vniuersality against Christe and his Apostles so fewe in comparison and as it semed latelye start vp as yowe are able to saye for youre churche or againste vs. But yeat we doe thinke that the worde of God as it was alleaged by Christe and hys Apostles againste the saide high prieste and his churche so maye it and ought it allso to be alleaged by vs againste youre highe prieste and youre churche cet What so euer the Phariseis had to saye againste the Apostles Dorman for them selues they had not this to saye whiche we haue againste you that theire churche was by the testimonies of the Scriptures promised to continue for euer The Apostles proued to them the contrary oute of the scriptures if you can doe the lyke to vs and shewe by euident scriptures that the churche of Christe shoulde for the space of fiftene hundred or nine hundred yeares either be ouerthrowen and at the length restored by a newe Messias we renounce the benefite off succession we giue ouer antiquitie consent vniuersalitye and what so euer elles Thus alleaged the Apostles the worde of God against the Phariseis Thus must you alleage it against vs if you will alleage it at all And whether you be so or no the true church of god seing it Nowell fol. 75. a. 23. is in question and a greater doubte and controuersie emongest men I am suer then can be aboute the sense of anye place off the scripture yow shall neuer be hable to make anie exception to the scripture as no competent iudge in controuersies but we shall be able ten tymes more to make exception to youre Pope and his churche as no indifferent nor meete iudge We make no exception nor euer did againste the scripture Dorman as of it selfe an incompetent iudge to determine controuersies This we saye that the frowardenes of men addicted to mainteine their once receiued opinions maketh that the scripture is not alone sufficient to decide the same till the church haue giuen sentence betwene those that shall thus contende which is the true meaning of the scripture How the scripture decideth controuet
for him selfe When this question off the blessed sacrament shall be the principall matter betwene yow and me yow shall haue a cause why these wordes I am the true vine proue not so well a transsubstantiation as the other This is my body doe In the meane season where as yowe aske what a rule yowe shoulde haue had if Christe B. 1. had saide likewise This is my true and verie bodie as he saide I am a true or verie vine trulie M. Nowell no highlier should the matter haue bene taken then it is For to vs Christian men it is inough that Christe hathe once saide it is his bodie We woulde beleue an honest man vpon his worde if he shoulde tell his name and saie that he were suche a one and neuer put him to saie that he were trulie suche a one I see no cause but yowe might if it pleased yowe haue as good an opinion of Christ Who notwithstanding to stop the mouthes of suche Capernaites as yow are hathe added also the worde truly saing For my fleshe is truly or verilie meate and my bloude is verily drinke The whiche wordes Ioan. 6. Hilarius expounding saieth that there is no place left to doubte Lib. 8. de Trinit of the truthe of the fleshe and bloude of Christe seing that bothe by oure Lordes owne wordes and oure faith it is trulie fleshe and trulie bloude I saide that if because the Apostle or Christe him selfe vseth a figure in one place we must thinke that in all other he neuer spake otherwise by that abhominable doctrine there were no let if a man woulde be so wicked to holde that Christe were not the true and naturall sonne of God but by adoption onelye and bring for the maintenaunce of that wicked heresie that texte dedit eis potestatem filios dei Ioan. 1. fieri He gaue them power to be made the sonnes of God An obiection left vnanswered by M. Nowell To this yow answere nothing at all I trust it be not yow knowe the rule since yowe were prolocutor in the conuocation because qui tacet consentire videtur he that holdeth his peace semeth to consent Charitie woulde rather interprete your silence to procede of lacke of iust matter to answere and so doe I allthough yowe deale not allwaies so frindely with me What so euer I haue saide here of the controuersie of the B. 9. sacrament out of place leauing my purposed matter vnproued is yow saie verye fonde What so euer I haue saide here of the sacrament hath bene vttred vpon the occasion of Luther and Caluins disagrement who because they can not be reconciled by the scriptures that blocke laied by you in the waie that the scripture onely is the sufficient iudge to ende all controuersies rising vpon the doubtefull meaning of the lettre is remoued and so my purposed matter proued that there must be an other iudge then the scripture What haue you nowe wonne to shewe you that I am not ashamed of mine owne phrase As before I proued that the Arrians Lutherās and Caluinistes coulde by no meanes by onelie scripture be ouerthrowen so nowe I proued the same by the Anabaptistes alleaging in like maner suche places of scripture as they bring for their defence And as you answered before nothing to the obiections of the Arrians Lutherans and Caluinistes so doe you here passe ouer in silence the answere to the Anabaptistes and purge your selfe and youre companions that yow be no Arrians no Anabaptistes withe fo 103. a. 8 M. Nowell leaueth vnāswered that to whiche he should answere and answereth that that nedeth no answere Nowell the which Heresies you were neuer charged by me You take holde also of those wordes of mine where I saie that the catholikes doe represse and ouerthrowe the brutishe opinions of the Anabaptistes To the which being but wordes incidently cast in I marueile how anie man reading youre boke can forbeare laughing to heare you slipping from the principall point make this solemne answere to that which neded none at all VVe answere that it is moste certeine and well knowen to the worlde that oure men haue saide and written more against them then euer did the papists VVherefore we be therein as in all other thinges in deede the Catholikes and not they What so euer you haue written M. Nowel against them Dorman you are notable by the scripture alone to ouerthrow them whiche is the thing that being denied you ought to haue proued But by the waye note I praie the that art the learned reader a clerckly conclusion of M. Nowelles whereby he A clerckly cōclusiō made by M. Nowell proueth his companions to be the Catholikes and not vs because they haue saide and written more against the Anabaptistes then we haue done Is not this trowe you a notable argument to proue that no man is a catholike but he that hath spoken and written against heretikes nor he neither if an other haue saide and written more then he You saie that the mention that I made of the Swenckfeldians b. 8. Arrians and Anabaptistes was alltogether impertinent to my purpose I haue proued the contrarie before nowe let the learned reader iudge thereof You charge me with declaiming against the scriptures and worde of God That is a lye You call it a seely similitude and cruell likelihode A lye 79. Nowell b. 12. that I make betwene the Iuishe high prieste and the pope I maruell not that you so call it for it cutteth the throate of all youre heresies You vse often and gladly I perceiue this worde Iuishe high prieste as though you woulde therby insinuat to the simple and vnlearned that my example were naught as taken from the Iewes the very name of whome to those that haue more zeale then knowledge yow knowe to be odiouse and therfore against that meaning I warne the vnlearned that the Iewes that were then whereof this Iuishe prieste was heade were goddes church and chosen people You cal the pope and papistes heretikes and their doctrine heresies You acknowledge him not to be the supreme heade or gouernour ouer all the churche As long as you be not able to proue it it maketh no matter youre tongue is not autentike Nowe where M. Dorman woulde proue the conference of Nowell fol. 104. a. 1. scriptures a vaine or euill thing because the Arrians and Anabaptistes vsed it and vs to be heretikes as they be because we vse the same groundes to witte conferring of scriptures together he might as well reiect all alleaging of scripture because the Diuell vsed it and conclude that we be of the diuell because we vse the same groūdes that he doth that is to say the alleaging of the scriptures Yea and he maye by the same reason ▪ finde faulte withe Christe oure Sauiour and his holy apostles who doe so muche vse the same alleaging of scriptures I go not about to proue the conference of scriptures a
there is no nede to write or saye anye thinge because I haue no ennemie at all And therefore he addeth For M. Dorman can not be ignorant that we in all oure Sermones Nowell fol. 123. a. 25. and writinges of suche matters doe make a moste cleere and euident difference betwene the functions and offices of princes ciuile magistrates and priestes ecclesiasticall ministres and neither did we euer teache that princes ought neither did they euer desire to execute the offices ecclesiasticall off ministring the Sacramentes preaching excommunicating absoluing and suche like I am not ignorant in deede of this qualification of youres Dorman inuented the rather to intice some seely soules to the taking of youre othe Whome in deede I maye well call seely that will therby any thing the soner be moued For youreselfe are not ignoraunt I trowe M. Nowell that the causes why we stande with you in this matter are not onelye for ministring the Sacramentes for preaching excommunicating absoluing but as I tolde yow and you here guilefully conceale this power extendeth farder to the giuing and making of lawes for the churche to auctoritie to iudge of doctrine wherewith the meÌ„bres must be fedde whether it be souÌ„de or otherwise for these be offices that beloÌ„g to the heade not to the membres excepte you will saie that the sheepe ought to iudge what meate is conuenient for them not the shepherde Againe to appease schismes is the office not of inferiour meÌ„bres but of the heade it selfe and yeat belongeth as youre selfe haue graunted to the chiefe prelaces of euery prouince Finally to be heade of the churche is to haue the gouernement of so manye soules as be in that churche whiche because no laye man c. can haue in Note this reason particuler bishoprickes it foloweth that none can haue ouer the whole churches of a realme vnited Of the whiche matter Chrisostome saieth At quum de ecclesiae praefectura Lib. 2. de Sacerdotio de credenda huit vel illi tam multarum animarum cura agitur vniuersa quidem muliebris natura functionis istius moli ac magnitudini coedat oportet itemque bona viroruÌ„ pars But when the question is of the gouernement of the churche of the committing to this man or that the charge of so many soules then must all the kinde of women giue place to the burden and greatenes of this office yea and a greate parte of men also You bring the examples of king Dauid Salomon c. who you saye had auctoritie in gouerning of the cleargie and churche matters though they might not execute all ecclesiasticall functions and offices This matter is answered in my first booke fol. 31. sequ Thither I referre the Reader What though oure moste graciouse souereigne ladye being a Nowell woman haue not so greate skill in feates of warre as haue her capitaines haue not so good knowledge in the lawes of her realme as her Iustices and other learned men in the lawes haue thoughe she haue in al good learning and in the scriptures toe more knowledge then had anie of youre popes these seuen hundred yeares I beleue and therfore no lette in that pointe but she maie be heade of the whole churche aswell and rather then the pope What if she fitte not in publike iudgement nor determine controuersies as doe her Iustices c. what I saie if she can not execute all ciuile offices in her owne persone woulde yow therfore take from her her ciuile principalitie c Surely yow maie with as good reason doe it as yow would take awaie her superioritie ouer her cleargie from her for that she can not maie not nor will not execute ecclesiasticall functions Your comparison is false M. Nowell For there is no lawe Dorman neither of goddes nor mannes that forbiddeth a Quene although a woman to sitte in iudgemeÌ„t or to be present with her armye in battaile as Delbora did both So that the not Iudic. cap. 5. doing herof procedeth not of lacke of habilitie or power as contrarywise it doth that the prince meddleth not with ecclesiasticall matters whose condition in that that he is a laie man maketh him vnhable for that function Wheras M. Nowell noteth the Quenes maiestie to haue more knowledge in all good learning and in the scriptures toe then had anye pope these seuen hundred yeares as I am not he that would abase those her maiesties rare giftes of excellent learning and princely qualities farre more plentifully by the goodnesse of God bestowed vpon her then anie other so noble prince man or woman that this daie liueth but as my bounden dutie is rendre moste humble thanckes to almighty God therefore so can I in no wise but abhorre this moste impudent parasite good Reader who vpon his beelefe as though he had made neuer a lye in all this booke before A lye 82. addeth this of all other the moste shamefull Whiche I nothing doubte but her graces moste rare modestie can so euill abide to here that longe ere this she hathe iudged him in her princely harte to be as he is a vaine lyer and shamelesse parasite Whome if her grace shoulde commaunde to An Emperours rewarde for a flatterer be rewarded for his labour as Sigismunde the emperour rewarded one of the same profession whome praising him aboue measure he buffeted as fast answering him when he asked why beatest thow me Emperour why bitest thow me flatterer as the rewarde were princely for suche a gift so were the facte worthy so mightie a prince But nowe AEneas Siluius li. 2. Com. de reb gest Alphonsi to the good Reader what cause haste thowe to trust hereafter this mans beliefe in anie matter touching the pope the learning considered of Innocentius the thirde Aeneas Siluius called Pius the 2. Adrianus 6. Marcelâ—us 2. Paulus 4. and Pius 4. that nowe is and diuerse other within that compasse as to the Learned is not vnknowen This parasite staieth not here but going farder sayeth Though the Quenes maiestie haue not that vnderstanding of Nowell fol. 124. a. 1. all the affaires of her realme that experience in all thinges that actiuitie in executing them that hathe the whole bodye of her moste honorable councel yeat dothe the whole bodye of her councell though moste honorable humbly acknowledge her to be their heade only proude priestes because some thinges are incideÌ„t to their office which the prince maye not * VVhat if the prince listed nor list not to doe refuse their Souereigne to be their supreme gouernour You beely all priestes M. Nowell and maye be ashamed to make the bishoppes only councellors in religion whom Dorman before you confessed by S. Cyprians minde to be iudges in earthe in Christes steede whereas you would here make them no iudges or iudges in the princes steede You deale vntruly to sclaundre the cleargie as you doe In whose defence I wil saye as S. Ambrose
onely but plaine contrary expositions brought farewell and will rather here God speaking then turne oure selues to these beggarly elementes and put oure saluation in thē VVe must not be cunning in the lawe and the scriptures but be taught of God The labour is vaine whiche is bestowed vpon the scriptures For the scripture is a creature and a certeine weake element Thus saieth Hosius Your Apologie goeth farder and vpon these wordes triumpheth ouer Hosius comparing him to Montanus and Marcion the heretikes Is this but to burden him withe affinitie M. Nowell Fy for shame how long wil yow halte downe right Maye yow not nowe be ashamed if shame there remaine anie in yow to saye that the author of the Apologie saing this of Hosius beareth witnesse to the truthe I haue hearde of certeine lewde men in oure countrie who agreing emongest them selues to name eache thing by a contrarie name haue framed a newe Englishe speache wherein they haue bene able so to vtter their mindes as beside their owne companions no other shoulde vnderstande them Except you be of this brotherhode I vnderstande not youre Englishe to make anie other sense of it then a plaine lye Whereas I call Hosius one of the greatest states of Christendome for learning and vertue yow without all occasion make an impertinent discourse of Cardinalles of their hattes of their moiles and that forsothe because you thinke it yow saye neither vnpleasant nor vnproffitable Iff fol. 92. 25. a. yow like a merie man studie to write pleasant thinges and if occasion be not offred will take it youre selfe rather then that suche pleasant matter shoulde perishe and be lost I neither couet to comende and make salable to the worlde my doinges by suche toyes and of all other thinke it moste vnmete for men of oure profession especially one of your yeares and calling to trouble the reader with suche triffles If this wandring discourse of youres had had anie proffit ioyned with the pleasantnes yeat is not euerie proffitable thing to be handled in euery place Vnlesse yow thinke M. Nowell to vse youre owne wordes that yow maie mingle in lente vnguentum thinges moste impertinent together And therefore I passe ouer this as wide from the matter the whole effect thereof being nothing elles but that the pope called the persons and vicaries of the parishes in Rome to be Cardinalles a greate matter forsothe and worthy to be discoursed of at large and therfore M. Nowell or elles because he knewe not how to make his boke growe to the biggnesse that it is of hathe about that onely matter bestowed all most three whole leaues For his learning yow make Hosius no bodie as he that fo 92. b. 5. hauing first borowed the matter of his bokes oute of other was not hable neither without helpe to put it in good ordre together Whiche you iudge probably you thinke by the stile and poeticall phrases vnmeete for Hosius age and vocation Here first the Apologie and yow agree not M. Nowell The Apologie and M. Nowell agree not about Hosius learning For the Apologie sayeth of him certè homo disertus non indoctus acerrimus ac fortissimus propugnator eius causae truly an eloquent man not vnlearned and an earnest and moste strong defendour of that cause If he borowed and stolle all the learning and reasons that are in his bookes how appeareth it that he is not vnlearned If he hired clerckes and stilewrightes as this cunning lyewrighte saieth he did to pen it where is his eloquence The Apologie iudged the stile poeticall phrases or verses notwithstanding that his bokes shoulde be of his owne penning otherwise there was no cause to call him eloquent And surelie who so euer he be that penned the Apologie if the matter came to be tried by the countrie who were best able of yow two to iudge in these matters yow were like to haue the worse His vertue you woulde drowne with polonishe pottes fo 93. 14. 2 and bring for youre witnes as honest a man as youre selfe Iacobus Andreae his knowen aduersarie Whereas the contrarie is so well knowen in Polonia that the greatest faulte that some finde with him is that he will neither for anie mannes pleasure quaffe to other neither answere anie other quaffing to him Whiche league of Christian sobrietie Martinus Cromerus and he making together being then bothe canons of the same churche they haue so trulie kepte euer sence that they haue at the length obteined full quietnes from being troubled anie more in any companie withe suche sinfull ciuilitie And a sobrer man is there not in his diete emongest you all loke who is the sobrest then Cardinall Hosius is as a good and a learned man a countrie man of our owne liuing nearer to him thē Iacobus Andreae euen with him and at his owne table and obseruing diligently his trade of life twelue monethes together hathe being earnestly required vppon his certeine knowledge reported to me But let this passe as one of the ordinarie sclaunders of heretikes It is not the first time that Iacobus Andreae hathe deceiued you M. Nowell It was he that made the compilers of youre Apologie to tell that fowle lye of Hosius that afterwarde in the seconde edition they corrected You see therefore what cause there is to truste him in his reportes of Hosius And by the waye note that to speake trulye of a forrein◠false Polonishe papist is with M. Dorman accounted sedition Nowell b. 3. cet And I desire the reader once againe to note that M. Nowell Dorman will neuer make an ende of belieng me I call you not seditiouse for anye thing that you speake be it true or false A lye 78. against Hosius The wordes that I call seditiouse be cloked with the name of Christe of whome you make no mention speaking of Hosius The wordes that I call seditiouse and warne men to beware of are these Christe is heade of the churche therefore there nedeth no other As appeareth by the sentence that foloweth nexte VVhat other thing did their forefathers Chore Dathan and Abiron c. What meane you to saye here that yowe haue spoken trulye of Hosius in your Apologie If you spake trulie why did the same Apologie reuoke it in the second edition That the reason taken from the example of Chore fol. 94. a. Dathan and Abiron against the gouernement of Moises and Aaron is one with that whiche the protestants make againste the gouernement off one heade The 26. Chapitre TO THIS reason you begin firste to answere in the fol. 95. b. 5 seconde side of the 95. leafe the 4. lyne All that goeth before is impertinent to the reason and decked with the accustomed flowers of youre railing Rhetorike The obiection of Moyses and Aaron wherby you would proue that there were two high priestes at once c. is answered by me if it had pleased you to haue taken the paynes to
haue loked so farre in the 34. and 35. leafe of my firste booke Nowe to the place of Chore Dathan and Abiron of the whiche you saye Nowell B. 5. thus Concerning the reason made by Chore Dathan and Abiron that the people ought not to obeye their gouernours because they be all holye * These wordes and the lorde is emōgest them left oute by M. Nowell Dorman and that therefore the magistrates ought not to lifte them selues aboue the Lordes people it is not oure reason cet No in dede M. Nowell as you haue alleaged it it is not youre reason But if you had trulye reported it it woulde haue gone as nere to your reason as twelue pense to a shilling But you doe here as you did before with the reasons of Swenckfielde that is leaue oute the chiefe reason wherein the comparison is made and then crie oute vpon me for making suche wise comparisons Who seeth not that I compare you hereto these schismatikes refusing to obeye Moises and Aaron not because they saide they were all holy but because they added in ipsis est Dominus and the Lorde is present with the multitude as you refuse that one heade of Christes churche because Christ is present with his churche As for the wordes that you note here in the margent of youre boke multitudo sanctorum and populus domini papae as though you coulde thereby make some shewe that this place might be applyed to Chanon Chore Deane Dathan and his felowes it deserueth to be rather laughed at then answered seing that bothe it is a manifeste lye wherewith you sclaundre the cleargye who neuer called them selues the holy people of the greate Lorde of Rome as you here feine and also it is well knowen that what so euer libertyes and immunities the cleargye had the same were giuen as the faithe encreased by Emperours and kinges them selues and therefore they were moste far from the maner of reasoning vsed by these schismatikes Nowe whereas M. Dorman alleageth the Apologie as thus reasoning Nowell B. 25. that the churche hathe no neede of anie other ruler because Christ is with it truth it is if M. Dormā doe meane one only heade of the vniuersall church For Christe nedeth no suche generall gouernour seing he is bothe present him selfe continually by his spirite as he promised and also for that he hathe in euery peculier countrie and churche his Moises and Aaron that is to saye his feuerall deputies in his steede euerye where here in earth for that no one mortall man can possibly suffice to the gouernaunce of the whole worlde or churche c. If he nede gouernours of euery peculier churche where Dorman he is no lesse present then with the whole why nedeth he not aswell one chiefe heade to gouerne the whole who shall emongest so manie heades diuided into partes euerye one thinking his opinion to be best strike the stroke and preserue vnitie If yowe saie God maie so preserue euerie bishop that he fall not into heresie you put god to worke daily mo miracles then he doth to preserue the chiefe bisshop of all whiche yet you stagger to graunte as a thinge impossible The wordes folowing in youre Apologie that no one mortall man can suffice to the gouernement of the whole fo 96. a. 3. worlde or church I of my accustomed sinceritie omitted yow saye And what haue you gotten by it nowe you haue alleaged it youre selfe Verilie this that you will make all men vnderstande that god is able with you to doe no more then you list to giue him leaue but of this I haue entreated before sufficiently You saye that you are far from rebelling Nowell against youre naturall soueraigne and other gods ministers appointed to gouerne you c. But how farre M. Nowell I Dorman praie you Who made the boke of succession at home Who sounded the two traiterouse blastes against the mōstrouse regiment of women their Quene being a woman From whence were they blowen but from the lake of Gehenna Who grudgeth against the princes ordinaunce in matters indifferent and of small importance no greater then of a square cap Who made warre against their prince in Scotland Who set all Fraunce in an vprore against their king Who but that vnhappy vermine the protestants That which foloweth fol. 96. b. and 97. a. b. is answered before That the waye to ouerthrow Fol. 68. vsque ad fol. 106. heresies is not by the only scripture The 27. chapiter THIS matter hath bene sufficiently handled before in the 21. chapitre And allthough in me it be a greate faulte and highly laide to my charge to alleage thrise one place of scripture yet muste yowe good readers beare withe M. Nowell if he alleage his absurde and wicked assertions more then six times thrise and maie not in any wise twite him with the prouerbe Crambe his that to muche of one thing is naught yea allthough he neuer proue anie of them once But maie yowe not be ashamed M. Nowell so vniustly to M. Nowell repre hending other men for vnreuerent speaking of the scripture speaketh of all other most vnreuerētly him selfe charge Pighius and Hosius with vnreuerent speaking of the scripture when youre selfe in this place applie your prophane prouer be to signifie that to muche of scripture maie be nought that anie place thereof maie so often be alleaged that it shoulde become vnsauory By what auctoritie claime yow I praie yowe tell vs suche libertie that yowe maie speake of the scriptures that whiche is vnlaufull and plaine blasphemie and other maie not vse so muche as similitudes or comparisons betwene the scriptures and other prophane thinges Why is it laufull for yow so oftentimes to repeate these heathenishe wordes that it is impossible for one man assisted by gods grace for otherwise we affirme it not to gouerne the whole churche of Christe that we be like to the Phariseis and high priestes of the Iues you to Christe and his apostles that there ought no more to be one chiefe heade to gouerne the churche then one emperour to gouerne the whole worlde that the pope can not be iudge in his owne cause as though goddes cause were his owne priuate cause with suche like absurdities a nombre mo and maie not be laufull for me to alleage thrise the holie scripture of God to proue three seuerall pointes Firste that it coulde not be likely that God prouiding for his chosen The place of Deuter. alleaged by me thrise to three seuerall purposes people the Iues a chiefe and heade gouernour to ende and determine all their controuersies woulde not for his churche whiche he loueth more tendrely where he knewe shoulde be greater nede doe the like nexte to answere thereby youre foolishe reason Christe is heade of his churche and present allwaies withe it therefore there nedeth no other By which reason I saide that God shoulde haue prouided for the Iues no chiefe