for these last yeares no Praise or Speaking of Christ at all How is it credible For being but a maÌ„ how should he not by all likelihoode folow the common course of men And if he would needes be Singular how could he discerne betwene the true and the false Opinions of the first six hundred yeres whereas he should finde Examples and Wrytings of both Or not able to discerne betwene them how could he fasten his minde and beleife vpon any one of them bothe except he were A Singular one in deede For wisemen doe not lightly take that way in which they see not either the Towne plainely before them or some Cawsey Pathes or Steps of feete to direct them Neither doe they vse when they goe in the right way and come at lenght to some turning or duble waie to go forward I can not tell how without loking backe if any folow Or loking about if any be within sight but either rest themselues vntill they spie of whome to aske Or goe so doubtefully forward in that which leeketh them that if better Counsell and teaching come vnto theÌ„ they wil be returned and ordered And if it be so in A corporall and visible way ought it not to be much more so in folowing the right way vnto truth of vnderstanding and knowledge And when the whole world taketh one waie Or diuerse cumpanies in the world folow diuerse waies would any man of Discretion be so Bolde or Foolishe as to goe peaking alone by himselfe in such an Opinion or Imagination as no man byside himselfe aloweth And so directly go in it that to liue and die he would not be brought from it If therefore these fortie yeres last past or what so euer it be more that M. Iewel hath liued in the world nor Christ had bene Preached nor the Primitiue Churche commended he could not vndoubtedly by any good Occasion or Reason haue estemed the Christian wryters of a thousand yeres sens Or geauen any Faith vnto Christ. Except we should thinke otherwise than y â— Apostle hath taught vs y â— faith commeth without hearing Or that no man sent for him yet by some Miracle perchannce he was brought vnto Christ. Of which two both are out of course And without some Extraordinary way of making them likely vnto vs both are Unreasonable both are Incredible The present Fame then Renoume Testimonie of this Age drawing men of this Age vnto Christ yet doth M. Iewel so litle set by it as though it were worthy of litle credite or rather none And he so cleaâ—eth vnto those vj. C. yeres past A thousaÌ„d yeres almost sens as though he could be sure of the Catholike true Faith that was then w tout the Testimonies of the Catholike Church now Or as though some secrete Mistery or Securitie were in them to further him in vnreueled Conclusions And exempt him from all Iurisdiction In so much that although in xv C. yeres rekening which the Church hath continued in as it shall to the worldes end viij yeres can not greatly hurt the Accompt Yet so true an Audite of theÌ„ is kept by M. Iewel that he wil not receiue the Testimonies of the viij yeres next after the first vj. C. but noteth in his Booke their cumming to late though they came very nigh His wordes be these M. Harding knoweth wel that this grauÌ„t to be called The Head of al Churches was made vnto Bonifacius the third which was Bisshope of Rome in the yere of our Lord vj. C. and viij Euen at the same very time that Mahomete first began to plant his Doctrine in Arabia And therfore maketh nothing to this purpose as beiâ—g without the cumpasse of six hundred yeres As who should thinke that within those viij yeres on this side the six hundred The Pope and Emperour with the whole world were Sodainely and Straungely conuerted from the Faith and Order which they were of viij yeres before And no Historie mentioning it were made of Pure Protestants Grosse Papists Yea not only of viij yeres aboue the vj. C. he maketh a sad rekoning towards his Uantage but of the vj. C. yere it self if he can bring D. Hardings testimonie so low he so vaunteth and braggeth as though either himself had the Uictorie Or els nothing should be won or lost For whereas D. Harding for profe of y â— Church Seruice in a Straung Tongue and vnknowen to the Uulgare people and that also within the first vj. C. yeres alleaged the cumming of S. Augustine the Monke and our Apostle into England which was by his accompt the 14. yere of Mauritius Emperor the 596. of our Lord. Master Iewel in answering it sayeth Of the 600 â–ª yeres after Christ whervpon Iioyne wish him issue Liberally and of his owne accord he geueth me backe fiue hundred foure scoare and sixtene And of so greate a number as 600. are reserueth vnto himself foure POORE YERES and yet is not very certaine of the same And then it foloweth But if Marianus Scotus accompt be true that Augustine came into this Realme not the fourtienth of the Emperour Mauritius but four yeres after which was iust the six hundred yere after Christ then he reserueth not one yere to himselfe but yeldeth me backe altogeather Loe what a wise contention here is And how sadly M. Iewel foloweth it Did he thinke with himselfe that none but Children or Idiotes would Reade his Replie And if he prouided to make it so as not only Wisemen should consider it but the Aduersarie also might â—e answered by it how could he for shame of the world so Trifle and Wrangle and Set furth himselfe so much vpon so litle occasion For if the vj. C. yeres shall trie the mater he that cometh four yeres before they be ended commeth time inough to confute M. Iewel And his Cause therefore being lost Or his Bragging at least confounded if in any time before the vj. C. yeres expired the contrarie to this Assertion may be proued Why should he call them foure Poore yeres or set them at naught which making to the number of the first 600. yeres are part of the yeres vpon which he ioyned Issue and are by his apointement of greate Authoritie The crake herein is like as if one should say In all S. Augustines workes you shal not finde this worde Missa and thervpon I wil ioyne with you as though a great point of Diuinitie consisted herein An other answeareth yeas Mary I finde the worde in such and such Sermons Then Replieth the ChalleÌ„ger Of so great a number of Tomes as S. Augustine hath writen of so many bokes in euery Tome c. as far as his Rhetorike permitteth you geaue me backe Liberally And of your owne accord al the sort of them almost and reserue vnto your selfe two POORE SERMONS and yet are you not very certaine of them whether they be S. Augustines or â—oe As if he should say I layed
persons When our Sauiour vpon a time preached in the Synagoge of the Iewes so singularly well that all men wondred at his Doctrine Hovv cummeth this felovve sayed they by all this lerning Is not this he that is the Carpenter the sonne of Mary the brother of Iames and Ioseph Are not his sisters also here dvvelling vvith vs As who should say We know his bringing vp well inough And therefore he is not so greatly to be wondered at Such is the Iudgment of carnall men euen vnto this day They measure Truthes by their Imaginacions And set a great Price on thinges that are farther out of their reach Contemning as good or better than those thinges are when they are easy to be found or alwaies present Which thing If it come of the Misery of our Nature it is to be lamented and the Remedie is to be sought for of hym which therefore toke our whole Nature synne excepted vpon him that by partaking thereof we might be purged of our sinne and Corruption If it come of the Foly of any deintines it is in some parsons to be reproued with fauor like as Children and Women are much to be borne withall in respect of their weakenesse and frailtie If it come of lacke of better Instruction Or dulnesse of vnderstanding as in the Rude and Simple of the Countrie they are to be warned as well as we may and for the rest to be â—raied for and tolerated If it come of some Pride Spite or Contention it is to be condemned and hated what so euer the person be But in M. Iewel whereof may I thinke that this Affection doth come of which I speake For you also in defining of euerlasting Trueth by Terme of yeares doe seeme to haue a spice of their disease which coutemne the good things that are nigh vnto them Shall I Impute this faule vnto the generall Miserie of our nature which was corrupted in our first Parentes God sende you theâ— Grace to resist euill motions And for this which you haue already done Repent and be sory But came it of a certaine wantones or niceues in you that as Childerne craue Dis peece or Dat peece of one and the self same meat or bread Or women loue far-fet and deere bought thinges so you will not be serued but with the Testimonies and Authorities of the firste six hundred yeres of our Lord Truely if it be so you can not loke for the Fauor that childerne and Women haue in their Infirmities Will you haue it then to be attributed vnto lacke of Lerning Or plaine Dulnesse that you are so blinde and blunt as to set at naught the Practise and Euidencies of the Catholike Church for nine hundred yeres togeather It seemeth no because the Opinion vndoubtedlye which your predecessours of late had of their owne Iudgment Knowledge and Wittinesse moued them especially to refuse the Generall and Approued Faith of the world And so I beleue they lacked no wit but only Grace and they were to wise to be Obedient and Faithful How now then Was it any Sprite of Malice or Contention that caused you to rest vpon the first six hundred yeres only that the further you went out of sight you might the more boldly shewe â—oule play Maintaine the quarell Make the victory vncertaine And trouble the lookers on If it be not so we shal easely beleue you if you shew any good Cause or Reason wherefore you haue appealed vnto the first six hundred yeres And so appealed vnto them not as the best time to finde witnesses in but as the only time neither as Preferring those Daies but as Condemning ours But let vs first see the Examples by which your fact and behauioure herein may be Euident And then after we shal the better consider it whether you haue any reason or no to make for you And what by likelihode was the cause which moued you Leontius Bishop of Nicopolis wrot the life of Ioannes Eleemosinari ' an holy man of the first six hundred yeres after Christ. Why should I not beleue Leontius Mary he wrote say you A great while after that And what of that Is S. Bedes History of the cumming of S. Augustine the Monke into England to be discredited because S. Bede began to wryte a great while after S. Augustine was departed this world Or because the next six hundred after Christ were much passed when he wrote it Are the bokes of Genesis in any poynt to be doubted of because they declare the beginning of the world and Actes Dated two thousand yeres before Moyses the wryter of them was borne Yet sayeth M. Iewel against Leontius This one Circumstance of his Latines answeareth the matter wholy And in the margine he geaueth a speciall note M. Harding rangeth without the cumpasse of six hundred yeres Vrbanus Regius a Doctor of Luthers Schoole confesseth in his boke De locis Communibus that in the first Councel of Ephesus an Order was taken for Communion vnder one kinde which he being a Lutherane would neuer haue wryten if he had not found it in some Auncient Record and worthy of credite But Vrbanus Regius say you departed this life not aboue .xx. yeres a goe and therefore is a very yong witnesse to testify a thing done so long time before In deede to testifye it as of certaine sight or knowledge it were hard for so young a witnesse but to testify it as of good Historie and Authoritie it is possyble inough for them which are .xx. yeres younger What shall we thinke of S. Bernard A man not only in his own time of most worthy Estimation and Authoritie but in all the Church euer sence of singular Credite and worthinesse If he were now aliue emong vs And might be seen and heard sensibly would there be found in all the world any man of Honestie or Discretion which considering his Holinesse Wisedome and Grauitie would thinke him A witnesse of litle weight and worthinesse Yet Father Iewel sayeth as though he had bene a Reader of Diuinitie when S. Bernard was yet but A Nouiâ—e in the Faith S. Bernard calleth the washing of feete a Sacrament I graunt But S Bernard was a Doctour but of late yeres and therefore his Authoritie must herein weigh the lesser Was he of so late yeres as Luther Zuinglius Caluine Peter Martir and other Greate Anceters of your new Religion Why dothe not the latenesse of these felowes offend you Why think you the xij C. yeres after Christ to be so farre and wide from his Trueth that no certaintie thereof maye be taken in them And Conclude Determine Protest and Defend that to be Sure and Autentike which riseth xv C. and some odde yeres after Christ Of the like kinde of Imaginacion and Answer it is where you say Lyra and Teâ—tonicus Lyued at the least thirtene hundred yeres after Christe wherefore their Authoritie in this Case must Needes
seeme the lesse No remedy M. Iewel hath so appointed Againe Bessarions Authoritie in this case can not seeme greate bothe for other sundry causes which you leaue And Also which must needes be a good cause and not forgoten for that he liued at the least fourtene hundred yeres after Christ. And againe Pope Nicolas was the second Bishop in Rome after Pope Iohane the Woman Note here that Other men recken from S. Peter downeward this man compteth from Pope Iohane An English woman as the reporter of the tale sayth borne at Magunce in Germany Which was almost nine hundred yeres after Christ. Wherfore his Authoritie might well haue bene spared Thus we see then by manifest Examples the exact Accompt that you make of the first six hundred yeres after Christ As though the whole Truthe of A mater were lost if it come to knowledge any long time after the thing was done Let vs consider now Whether any honest Cause and Reason may be alleaged for your so doing Or whether you did it without cause Or els were sturred vp with some vnlawfull Affection and Reproâ—eable Cause And here now take no skorne M. Iewel if I appose you in a few Questions For either you be hable to Answer them and that shall be to your worship either not Answering them you shall occasyon Trueth therby to be knowen And that shall be to Gods glorie and the Cumfort of the doubtfull Surely if it were to my selfe and if so much might be obtained that I should be Answered in some One thing thoroughly and be bid to choose out of all that which I haue to demaunde that One thing which seemeth strongest agaynst my Aduersary and surest of the Catholikes I would be glad of the Occasion and all other maters quite and cleane put to Silence I would speake of these fewe poyntes which folow And either wythout more wordes holde my peace If in them I were satisfied Or requâ—re that our Aduersaries neuer trouble their hearers or Readers any further with other conclusions before these fâ—we questions were Answered Therefore I pray the Indifferent Reader to consider thys plaâ—e which foloweth though thou Reade no more of all the Booke First I aske of you M Iewel whether you haue any Faith at all or no If you haue none what meddle you with any Religion except it be for Ciuil Policie sake For which to doe as you doe though it would proue you lesse mad or vnreasonable yet should you be for lacke of Faith as deade in soule and as Godlesse as any Infidel in al the world If ye haue any how came you by it for we are not borne Christians but Regenerate neither doe we receiue faith by Nature but by Teaching And faith is by hearing sayeth the Apostle Of whome then haue you heard and lerned your Faith Of them that liued and died before you were borne Or of such as preached and taught in the world sens your selfe were of remembrance If you lerned of the first how could they teache without A tongue Or how could you heare without an care For they were now deade in body and cleane dissolued and you were not yet made of body and soule nor had any instruments of senses If you lerned of the Quicke and Liuing your self also quicke and liuing were those your Teachers of such Authoritie with you that you submitted your senses and vnderstanding to theyr iudgment Or examined you by your selfe their Doctrine and Sayinges If you the Scholer did iudge of the Master you were without all doubt a Malapert and Folishe Scholer Malapert because you would breake order and proudly goe before him whome you ought meekly to haue folowed And Folishe because in maters of Faith of which we now speake all Wit and Reason of man is altogeather vnworthy and vnable to Iudge of that which is Proponed If you then folowed their Authoritie and submitted your vnderstanding and will vnto their Doctrine without Mouing or Mistrusting any doubt about it VVhat were they in all the world vnto whome you gaue such credite I aske you not this question for the time of your Childhode in which though true Faith be Habitually in them that are Baptised yet there is not that Discretion or Consideration by which they may returne their mindes vpon theyr ownâ— actes Or put a difference betwene their GraÌ„dmothers tale of Bloudy bone Raw head Bloudelesse and Ware woulf and the Churches Doctrine of Hell and the Deuill But I speake now as to one that hath Understanding and knowledge of his owne state And Experience of many thinges And Lerning inough for the purpose And such a one whose part and profession it is to be able to geaue a good Cause and Reason for the Faith and Religion which he foloweth Of you therefore I aske what Authority that was Or is which moued you to be and continue A Christian Here you must not say vnto me that you considered the wrytinges of the Fathers of the first six hundred yeres And that you gaue your minde to Reading of the Scriptures c. For what so euer such tale yoâ— tell me it will alwaies remaine to be Answered of you what Instruction or Authoritie that was which either Taught you Or 〈◊〉 you to esteeme those Auncient Doctors of the Christian Religion Or these Scriptures of which you make your self so certaine For by your selfe you could no more know the difference betwene Writers and Writers or true Scriptures and lying Fables than A Blinde man caÌ„ iudge of Colours Or a Stranger know the right way in A Wildernesse or he Rede that knoweth no letter on the booke You are not I am sure wiser thaÌ„ S. Augu. Neither haue you better thought vpoÌ„ these maters than he did He saith of himself y â— concerning the Faith which he had in Christ. He savv himselfe to haue beleued none but the established opinion of Peoples Nations and the very Common and renoumed Fame of him Than which cause if you can geue any better it is time y â— you shew it As for vs neither we finde any like And we neede not be ashamed to be perswaded by it which moued S. Augustine him selfe to come vnto Christ. And I think verely that neither you studying neuer so much for it can bring any so perswasible a Reason why you beleued Christ as this is that So many Nations and peoples of the world doe beare witnesse to him For this is so Great and so Stronge to induce vs into Faith that we should not now be desirous of visible Miracles for Prouing Or Confirming of it S. Augâ—stine moste wisely and Reasonably warning vs Quisquis adhuc prodigia vt credat inquirit magnum est ipse prodigium Qui MVNDO CREDENTE non credit VVho so euer doth yet seeke after Straunge and vvonderfull thinges to make him beleue he is himselfe a straunge felovv or Greate
Victor that wrote the story of the Vandales he is neither Scripture For Scripture he was not alleaged And this also is against sincere and honest dealing to promise or rather protest that you would be tried by any Doctor Father Councel or Example of the Primitiue Churche and now so desperately to come in with this exceptioÌ„ that Uictor is no Scripture It foloweth Nor Councel Remember your selfe M. Iewel There are emong your Fauorers some discrete Sadde and Iust men Whome your Inuention in this place wil litle please And your much seeking to extenuate Uictors Authoritie wil be an Argument vnto them that you fall to Copie of wordes and shiftes of Rhetorike meete for Childerne when Copie of Sense â–ª and certaintie of good Answer doth not serue your greate Stomacke You saied wel once that one good sentence were Proufe sufficient and are you so much chainged so sodainely that you dare set light by an Auncient and graue wytnesse because he is no Councel You neede surely some good counsel least by extreme folowing with al your wit the defense of your mad ChalleÌ„ge you chauÌ„ce to fall bysides your wittes and haue no sense at al of your doinges It foloweth Nor Doctour Now define you then A Doctour For in deede whome you wil alowe to beare that name I can not tel And such Libertie you haue takeÌ„ now vnto your self of binding vs to your meaning that if you wil vnderstand by a Doctour none other but either S. Ambrose S. Hierome S. Augustine or S. Gregorie which are called the foure Doctours of the Church Or some such as hath been solemly Created and made Doctour in some Uniuersitie we must be contenâ— with your sense and let you haue your owne minde and meaning But if you wil be ordered by reason you wil not deny I suppose that Uictor might wel be A Doctour which being a Bishop of no smal Citie in Aphrica had by al likelyhoode the knowledge of Scriptures and grace of expounding them and diligence in executing his office Except that M. Iewel wil be so Iniurious to the first six hundred yeares after Christ in which Uictor liued that he wil Iudge any one to haue ben made Bishoppe in those daies which was vnworthy to be a Doctour Againe if he were no Doctour was he therfore no Father And your self promising to admit any sufficient testimonie of any Father how wisely make ye now an Exception against Uictor â–ª because he was no Doctor It foloweth Nor writeth the Order or Practise of the Primitiue Church O worthy Exception Doth S. Augustine in his bookes of Confession write the Order or Practise of the Primitiue Church Nothing lesse For alâ—ogether they are compiled of his owne Actes Lyfe Chaunces Cogitations and Interrogations But what then Might not one for al this bring a good testimonie out of those bokes for prouâ—e of any mater that is in controuersie And when the Heretike denieth prayers for the Dead should not the example of S. Augustine whose prayer for his Mothers soule is extant in his Confessions quite and cleane sâ—oppe his Procedinges and make his very Impudencie ashamed What new found reason then is this of M. Iewels to contemne an AuncieÌ„t writer if he write not of those Maters and write also in such Order of them as he requireth When we alleage Clemens de Constitutionibus Apostolicis S. Denyse de Coelesti Ecclesiastica Hierarchia S. Iames Liturgie S. Chrysostomes Liturgie Sozomenus Nicephorus Or â–ª the Decrees and Decretales straitwaies you either deny them either suspect them either wil fyle them better before you beleue them Yet there are not in whom you may see more expressely the printes and the formes of the order or practise of the Primitiue Church For where shal one better finde what the Religion was in euery Age than in the Histories of those times and in Decrees Answeres and forme of publike Seruice that in euery of them was vsed You therefore which so litle set by those writers by whom we may vnderstand most plainly what the particulars were of the cause and state of our Religion in the Primitiue Churche now when Uictor is brought against you sodainly you be so chaunged as though it might be an exception against a witnes that he writeth not the Order or Practise of the Primitiue Church And yet this Exception of yours commeth not so luckely against Uictor Which although he take not into his storie the Actes of the Apostles or the succession of Bishoppes after them or al the persecutions throughout Christendome or the Martyrs of al Countries Or the perfection and rule of those holy Monks â—hat liued in wildernesses Or the Decrees of al Councels Or euery other such mater as might be spoken of by a General Historiographer yet what state the Church was in vnder the Uandales he describeth sufficiently And by his telling this much we vnderstande of the Order and Practise yf not of the Primitiue Church yet of that Church which was within the six hundred yeres after Christe the which time you haue allowed vs that in a mater concerning Faith and in a Councel to be gathered it was thought mâ—ete then to make other Bishoppes besydes them of Aphrica priuy thereof and especially to haue the presence of the Bishoppes of Rome because The Church of Rome is head of al churches Which Euidence because it is so plaine against you therefore hauing nothing to said reasonably against the sentence Yoâ— hâ—â—e sâ—retched your wittes to findâ—â—xâ—eptions against the Reporter oâ— it And you saiâ— farther against him Nor is it wel knowen either of what credite he was or when he liued Concerning his Credite he was Bishoppe of Utiâ—a and by likelyhoode therfore of good Estimation emong the Catholiques and A Man worthy to be heleâ—ed For in al kindes and Contrarietiâ—s of Religion such as are high Priestes Bishops or Superintendents it seemeth that they are of the better sort of the Famiâ—ie Churche or Cougregation out of which they are taken do doe that Office And further whose bookes were compâ—ed then worthy the copieng out and were so kept then that they remaine yet vnto vs And are so accepted at this present that they be translated into French His credite needeth not to be mistrusted or called without cause into question He wrote also vnto Hunericus King of Uandales an accoÌ„pt of his faith being driuen thereto by the CoÌ„maundement of y â— King By which you may perceiue that great accoÌ„pt was made of him Concerning then his age he liued not long after the time of S. Augustine farre within the First six hundred yeares out of which any Testimonie is sufficient against you For when the Uandales were in Aphrica and were busy in furthering the Procedinges of the Arrians then liued Uictor as may appeere by his Answer to Hunericus by diuerse places of his historie in which he speaketh of him selfe as one present at y â— doing
thinke wel vpon that it maie be perceiued howe wel the Protestantes and Arrians agree together in their prowde and rebellious behauyours how wel the testimonie of blasphemous Heretikes maie serâ—e to disproue any Catholike and honest conclusion An other Example is Donatus being condemned by threescore ten Bishops in Aphrica Appealed vnto the Emperour Constantinus and was receiued But what was Donatus A singular prowd heretike For profe wherof let y â— Epistles and bookes whiche S. Augustin wrote against him and his folowers be witnesses Let that 〈◊〉 also be witnesse which S. Augustine wrote purposely of heresies In which the Donatiani or Donatistae haue their proper place For when Cecilanus A Catholike and good man was made against their wils Bishope of Carthage they obiected certaine crimes against vs which being not proued and sentence going against their Donatus being their Captain they tooke such a Stomake that they turned their Schisme into heresie and helde the opinion that al they whatsoeuer they were in the worlde bysides that agreed not with them were infected and excommunicated persons And herevpon as the nature of heresie is to goe deeper and deeper still into desperate blindnes and presumption they dyd baptise againe suche as had ben alreadie baptised in the Catholike Churche It appeereth alsâ— what an honest and Catholike man 〈◊〉 was in that M. Iewel confesseth hym to haue been condemned of three score and ten Bishopes whiche was not I beleue for any humilitie Obedience Faith or Charitie of his Donatus then beinge an Heretike what hath M. Iewel to doe with hym Lyke will to lyke perchaunce and the same Sprite y â— inflamed Donatus warmeth M. Iewel otherwyse it is not to be gathered out of the practises of Heretikes what the Order that we ought to folowe was in the Primitiue Churche But of the Catholike and alowed Examples And if M. Iewel could shewe that this Appeale of Donatus vnto the Emperour from the Bishopes that condemned hym was good and lawful in the Iudgement of any Father or Doctour of that age then might this example haue some lykelyhoode in it to serue his purpose otherwise him selfe doth minister the Catholike an Exception againste his owne witnesse the Auncient and Reâ—â—rend Heretike Donatus But Constantinus the Emperour â—eceaued his Appeale What of that Is al wel done that Emperours doe And are noâ— manie thinges permitâ—â—d vnto them for Ciuile Policie and quiet sake which by right folowing to Ecclesiasâ—ical orders should not be suffered Againe Constantinus was a Christian Catholike and good Emperour and he receiued in deed Donatus Appeale but receaâ—ed he it willingly or no And thought he hymselfe to doe therein lawfully as A Supreme head and Gouernour or els to passe the bondes of his Imperial Authoritie and to medle with a Iurisdiction belonging to more excellent Officers UVndoubtedly he would faine haue been rid of the importunitie of the Donatistes and lyked it not in his owne conscience that himselfe should be taken for the highest Iudge in maters Ecclesiastical HJow proâ—e I this now Sufficiently inough by S. Augustine And marke the place well Indifferent Reader that thou maiest see the deuotion of that so mightie an Emperour First Donatus and his felowes perceiuing that although they had condemned Cecilianus y â— Bishope of Carthage and set an other of their ownâ— making in his place Yet the rest of the Bishopes of the world dyd stil write and send to Cecilianus as the true Bishope in deede and such as they communicated withal they I saie perceauing this made sute to Coâ—stantinâ—s the Emperour that they might haue the cause of Cecilianus examined before the Bishopes of beyond the seas In which point S. Augustine findeth that they had a duble fetche and subtiltie The one that if those Bishoppes whom the Emperour had procured to heaâ—e the whole mater should condemne Cecilianus then loe they should haue their lust fulfilled The other that if those should absolâ—e him then would he with his fellowes say that the Iudges were not indifferent and so by consequence appeale from them In which case though as S. Augustin saith there remained a general Councel of the vniuerfal Church in which the cause betweene them and their Iudges shoulde haue ben handeled yet what did they Mary they went to the Emperour and accused the foresaid Bishopes before him And how was this taken thinke we of the Catholikes Uerely not wel as appeereth by S. Augustine which noteth the Donatistes of folish boldnes therein Iudices enim Ecclesiasticâ—s c. For the Ecclesiastical Iudges Bishopes of so great Authoritie by vvhose sentence and iudgement both the Innocencie of Cecilianus and their naughtinessâ— vvas declared these men of such worthines saith S. Augustine they durst accuse not before other their felâ—vvebishopes and Collegies but vnto the Emperour that they had 〈◊〉 iudged vvel But now when they had broken the order of the Ecclesiastical Law and were come to the Emperour what did he Did he commende their Obedience or Wisedome Did he preferre his owne Courte and Authoritie before the Consistoâ—ie and Iudgement of Bishoppes What he did the Actes and Registers of his owne Courte declare as S. Austine recordeth out of it For after y â— Donatistes were now coÌ„demned by y â— Pope of Rome other Bishopes assistant and refused to stand to their sentence requiring helpe at the Emperours handes Dedit ille aliud Iudicium Arelatense aliorum scilicet Episcoporum He gaue and appointed vnto them other Iudges at Arles I meane other Bisshoppes Why if the Emperour had in those daies taken the Pope for chiefe Bishope in al the worlde would he haue further committed vnto the Bishop of Arls the sitting vpon that cause which already was decided by the Bishop of Rome It seemeth altogeather vnlikely And therefore M. Iewel may be thought to bring in deede an inuincible Argument for the Emperours Supremacie against the Supremacie of the Bishop of Rome But marke the Circumstances and Considerations which moued the Emperour and then wil the contrary conclusion be manifestly proued that the Emperour tooke him selfe to be the inferiour vnto Bishops euen in that cause which was brought vnto him after Bishopes and which he caused to be examined againe after it was sufficiently iudged For thus it foloweth in S. Austin Dedit ille aliud Arelatense Iudicium non quia iam necesse erat sed eorum peruersitatibus cedens omnimodo cupiens tantam Impudentiam Cohibere That is He gaue other Iudges not because it vvas novv necessarie but because be yelded to the frovvardnes of them the Donatistes and desired by al meanes to restraine so great Impudencie of them Neque enim aâ—sus est Christianus Imperator sic eoruÌ„ tumultuâ—sas fallaces querelas suscipere vt de iudiciâ— Episcoporum qui Romae sederant ipse Iudicaret sed alios vt dixi Episcopos dedit For the Christian Emperour as who should say other Emperours
what begynning al thinges should be referred and in what vnitie they should be preserued Hath not M. Iewel then done very sincerely to allege Polidore so farre and wyde from the meaning of Polidor I would there were some man so indifferent as M. Iewel taketh Polidore to be to Iudge betwene hym and vs whether he hath not shamefully abused the Later writers Of M. Iewels Contradictions HYtherto by many Examples I haue proued it y â— M. Iewel hath not vnderstanded other men now wil I shew it by a fewe Arguments that he doth not wel vnderstand hymselfe And no maruel truly if in speaking so many words he hath not remembred euery word Or if in coâ—eting to saue his honestie for the present place he saie and vnsay againe like A man that were not sure yet what to byde by But because his Frindes and Felowes wil thinke this incredible that out of his smooth month doctrine squared by the rule of the Scriptures Fathers CouÌ„cels any thing should procede hacked slittered therefore wil I geaue an occasion to the Indifferent to Beware of the dubâ—le tongue and mynd in one and the selfe same 〈…〉 The Receiuing with Companie is no substantial pâ—rt of Christes Institution â–ª Ergo we are not bounde therein to folow the Example of Christ. First this Antecedent iâ— false and if it were no part of the substaÌ„ce of Christes Institution Yet we are neuerthelesse bound to his Example because he hath commaunded vs so to doe Here in this place M. Iewel you are of the mynd that there is a difference betwene the Institution of Christ and the Example of Christ. Otherwise your saying were very folishe As by which this only is imported that it were no part oâ— Christs InstitutioÌ„ yet are we neuerthelesse bound to his Institution Which maketh a plaine contradiction if that by Institution and Example you meane but one thing An other thing that I note here is that you say we are bound to Christes Example although the thing which is to be done were not of his Institution What say ye then to washing of feete for which you haue the expresse words of our Sauiour in the Gospel If I sayth he your Lord and Master haue vvashed your feete you also ought to vvash one the others feete For I haue geauen an Example vnto you that as I haue done so likevvyse that ye also doe What say you then M. Iewel to this example of our Sauiour shal it be folowed or no You Answer That this Obiection of washing of feete is common and hath ben often Answered And in the same page The wasshing of feete was neither Institution of Christ nor any part of the Sacrament nor Specially apointed to be done by the Apostles nor the breache thereof euer deemed Sacrilege To let passe the manifest lye which here you make that Christ apointed not washing of â—eete to be done by the Apostles I marke this only for the present y â— you labour with al your wit to proue that ye are bound to keepe y â— Example of Christ. Reconcile me then I praie you these two places And tel vs how it may stand togeather that we are bouÌ„d to Christs example in that which is not of the Substance of Christs Institution And yet that you may freely as ye do let go washing of feete in your Congregation because it was not Christes Institution In the Primitiue church this order of sending the SacrameÌ„t to them that were departing this world was thought expedient not for the Sicke For they in their health receiued daily Ergo if in health they needed or vsed that daily sustenance was it not prouided for them in their sicknes Yeas ye confesse so much And therefore you say And in their sicknesse had the Sacrament Ordinarily sent home vnto them How say ye then euen now that this order concerning the necessarie vitaile the Sacrament was not thought expedient for the sicke Except you know that a man may be in sicknesse and yet not sicke But gâ—e ye forwarde and make an end of your â—ale If the necessarie vitaile was not for y â— sicke for whoÌ„ was it then Not for the sicke c. but for persons ExcoÌ„municaâ—e c. Uery wel How long wil you tarie in this mynd Ye amend it within xx lynes folowing For thus ye remember your selfe better Howbeit I confesse sometimes it was otherwise vsed We take your confession that you know not wel where to staie For diuiding as it were al the Faithful Into Sicke and Excommunicate And subdiuiding the Sicke into them that were either in health either in Sicknes You leâ—t none but Persons Excommunicate for whom the necessarie vitaile called viaticum should serue How be it ye confesse it was Sometimes otherwise vsed and so it must necessarely folow that it was not for the Excommunicate only How these thinges agree I doe but aske you the question If there had ben in it any shew of trueth M. Harding as he is eloquent would haue laied out al the circumstancies when this strange errour first began where and how longe it continued who wrote against it And by whom and in what Councel it was condemned Verely this greate Silence declareth some want See how ernest the man is to haue al Circumstances declared But I trow he wil not tary stil in this minde For when D. Harding as reason is asked when the Latine Seruice began in England and when the English ceased for Heretikes say y â— in the primitiue Church al publike praier was in the knowen and vulgare Tongue And the Catholikes thinke that some token then or Monument should be extant of so generall A mater M. Iewel with open mouthe replieth O what folie is this Who is hable to shew any Boke writen in English a thowsand veres agoe Or if it could be shewed yet who were hable to vnderstand it Loe now it is foly to require but some litle signe of the begynning or ceasing of a publike and common mater but in an other place he thinketh it wisely spoken for he speaketh it hym selfe to demaund particularly of diuerse CircuÌ„stancies when where how who by whoÌ„ and in what Councell errours began or appeared That certeine godly persons both men and women in time of persequution or of sicknes or of other necessitie receaued the Sacrament in their houses it is not denied Ergo Receauing at home is not reprouable for which there are to be found the Examples of Godly persons both men â—nd women This maner of receauing at home was not lauful for the Laiemen For it was abolished by godly Bishops in general CouÌ„cel You belye the Councel vnto which you referre vs. For of Receauing at home it speaketh no one word but If any person â–ª saith it be proued not to haue receiued in the Church and not to
say or thinke that the very name should be the very thing emong the Diuines Yet who so considereth diligently M. Iewels maner behauiour of writing shal sone perceiue that he so handeleth the mater as though he were a Grammarian onely or a Rhethorician and not a Diuine and as though in dede he passed not vpon the very Thinges so that he might haue the very wordes that could serue his turne For which cause he hath furnished himself with Testimonies and Phrases inough For y â— church Against the Churche For Custome Against Custome For Fathers Against Fathers For Councels Against Councels For Receiuing at home Against receiuing at home For Receiuing in One kinde Against Receiuing in Oâ—e For Receiuing alone Against Receiuing alone For S. Peters Pricipalitie Against S. Peters principalitie For equalitie of Bishops Against equalitie of Bishops For Distinctions against Distinctions For Arguments taken of Authoritie Against Arguments taken of Authoritie And so truth in many thinges moe which I haue shewed partly in the Second Booke partly in this Chapiter of Contradictions And were more to be shewed if time or occasion required But now to an other mater A Note Concerning M. Iewels Lies ANd what other mater might that be For I haue already discouered his vnreasonablenes and falshed by so many waies that it may seeme both that I am at an End of finding any more ObiectioÌ„s and he of ministring any more Occasions For as concerning his Lies of which I eyther intended or promised to make a special Chapiter there can be no worse nor plainer than I haue already declared and therfore let me be excused if I satisâ—ie not 〈…〉 that by nowe and 〈…〉 which is so abundantly 〈◊〉 D. Harding doth charge him with 225. Unâ—ruthes M. Stapleâ—on â—â—â—â—pting the Untruths of the first Article in which he can not but 〈◊〉 with D. Harding doth charge him with 474. I recken not the .218 which D. Sander obiectech against him And of the 〈◊〉 which my self 〈◊〉 found in him in talking with him about the State of the Question in the first 〈…〉 and about his shamful ordering of D. Harding And about his 〈◊〉 of 〈…〉 Gloâ—es 〈…〉 And Later writers the truth is I haue kept no reckening But this I am sure of that although 699. 〈◊〉 are founde in his foure first Articles only yet many of them that I obiect vnto him are none of the number of those 699. And yet I passe not the cuÌ„passe of the same Articles More specialties than these if any man wil require I am not my self at leisure but if he thinke it expedient he may by him selfe gather the Particulars into one Chapiter by telling onely the bart Untrueth without further discoursing vpon it And he should do wel not to recken euery one for that would occupie a great roome but such notable and singular Lies as might not only be vnderstanded but felâ—â—s it were and seene As if this Lie should be the First in the Rewe The Bishop of Rome and his Cardinals scarsely haue leisure to Sacrifice once in the whole yeare And Againe They do scarsely CoÌ„municate once in the yeare For this is so notorious a Lie and so palpable that he that would report it to another that neuer yet was at Rome might be thought neuer to haue come to Church whiles be taried there And he that shal haue occasion to iorney thither shal sensibly perceiue and see that it is a most shamful Lie And so furth in other of the like making the number of which although it would be lesse yet it should appeere most manifestly that the plaine meaning consciencies had neede to BEVVARE of M. IEVVEL How M. Iewel hath left some places altogeather vnanswered THus then the Chapiter of Lies being referred to the diligence of other that would haue them sette in their Rankes and which haue leisure to bring it to passe by themselues Is there any more to be obiected against M. Iewel Yea mary is there and that to his reproch and ignominie For pretending to Answere euery woorde of D. Hardings and shewing a countenance of such Learning that he could and such diligence that he would leaue nothing vndiscussed and vnperfited a great and iust shame it is for him that many and 〈◊〉 Argumentes and Testimonies against him he so passeth by as though he had neuer scene them As in example Do ye reproue the Masse saith D. Harding Or doe ye reproue the Priuate Masse And M. Iewel Aunswereth with other questious vnto him againe concerning Sole Receiuing and Single CoÌ„munion Priuate Masse and Sole Receiuing Sacrifice of the new Testament and A liâ—â—le Booke of his owne but to the question it selfe he Answereth not Concerning the publike Seruice of our 〈◊〉 if it had ben in English at y â— beginning Doubtlesse saith D. Har. some meÌ„tion would haue ben made of y e time and causes of the leauing such kind of Seruice of y e beginning of the New Latine Seruice As certain of S. Gregories workes turned into English by Bede himselfe haue been kept so as they remaine to this day But M. Iewel wil not or caÌ„not answer Si Benedixeris Spiritu c. If thou make thy prayer in the CoÌ„gregation with thy Spirit or noise of Strange wordes how shal the vnlerned man thervnto say AmeÌ„ Thus doth M. Iewel interpret y â— place But y â— translation saith D. Harding authorised by King Edward and his Councel is truer which hath thus Vvhen thou blessest vvith the Spirit hovv shal he that occupieth the roome of the vnlearned say Amen at thy geauing of thankes seeing he vnderstandeth not vvhat thou saiest And M. Iewel aunswereth not one worde in his owne defese for saying The vnlearned in steede of He that occupieth the roome of the vnlearned Of the Seruice in y e vulgare tongue the people saith D Har. wil frame lewd peruerse meanings of their own lewd senses Of y â— Latin they caÌ„not do so Ergo Latine is more meet for puâ—lik seruice M. Iew. aÌ„swereth nothing S. Peter saith Hilarins deserued for the confession of his blessed faith Supereminentem Locum A Preeminence aboue other To Supereminence or Preeminence aboue other which is imported by Super aboue M. Iewel answereth nothing How shal the Contumacie and Pertinacitie of mischieuous persons be repressed specially if the Bishops be at dissension within themselues if there be not a Supreme Power who towards some may vse the rod towardes other some the spirite of Lenitie M. Iewel answereth nothing Cum tantum c. Vvhereas vve see sayeth S. Augustine so greate helpe of God so greate profite and fruite shal vve stand in doubt vvhether vve may hyde ourselues in the Lappe of the Churche vvhich though Heretikes barke at it round about condemned partly by the IudgemeÌ„t of the people themselues partly by the Sadnesse of Councels and partly by the Maiestie of Miracles euen to the Confession of