A DETECTION OF SVNDRIE FOVLE ERROVRS LIES SCLAVNDERS CORRVPTIONS AND OTHER false dealinges touching Doctrine and other matters vttered and practized by M. Iewel in a Booke lately by him set foorth entituled A Defence of the Apologie c. By Thomas Harding Doctor of Diuinitie Psalm 4. Filij hominum vsquequo graui corde vt quid diligitis vanitatem quaeritis Mendacium O ye sonnes of menne how long wil ye be dul harted what meane ye thus to be in loue with Vanitie and to seeke after Lying RESPICITE VOLATILIA COELI ET PVLLOS CORVORVM IF LOVANII Apud Ioannem Foulerum Anno 1568. CVM PRIVILEGIO REgiae Maiestatis Priuilegio concessum est Thomaâ— Hardingo Sacra Theologia Professori vt Librum inscriptum A Detection of sundrie foule errours lies sclaunders c. per Typographum aliquem Iuratum imprimere ac impunè distrahere liceat Datum Bruxellis 24. Maij. Anno 1568. Subsig Vander A A. The Preface to the Reader AT the first comming of this Treatie to mens handes what saith one so smal a Booke for answer to so great a Volume Shal this Detection conteining litle aboue one hundred streetes of Paper matche the Defence that is almost foure hundred sheetes What meaneth D. Harding Is he not hable to confute M. Iewel Or is he loth to take paines To this I answer How hable I am to confute what so euer M. Iewel hath written not onely in his late pretensed Defence but also in his Replie or in the Apologie whereof at leaste he is thought to haue benne the penneman let it be iudged by the learned this wil I boldly saie if he haue no better meane to make his partie good then hitherto he hath vsed write he what him liste it shal be no great praise to any man to haue confuted him As it had benne smal glorie for valiant Achilles to haue beaten Thersites whom Homere describeth ready of his tongue and a coward of his handes so among the skilful Diuines he may not looke to winne great coÌ„mendation of learning who confuteth M. Iewelles writinges For certainely good Reader if thou haue but a meane insight in these Controuersies nowe so much disputed of betwixte the Protestantes and vs and wilt bestowe some good labour about the exacte trial of the thinges he hath written thou shalt easily espie the feeblenesse of his side Thou shalt finde that he perfourmeth more in shewe then in acte that commonly he maketh vp in Tale where he lacketh of Weight that with multitude of wordes he couerâ—th thâ— pâ—nurâ—â— of Râ—â—â—â—â— that with huge numbers of Doctours sainges he setteth foorth the barrennesse of substantial Prouâ—â—â— aâ— mâ—ny do their thinne Hippes with stufte Hosen and their solender Armes with bombast Sleeues This being so whereas the dewe discussion of these pointes in controuersie descendeth vnto the bottom of thinges and swimmeth not aboue vpon the fome of wordes euery man can soone conceiue howe meane learning may suffice to confute such a Writer If therefore I make profession of sufficient habilitie in this case there is no cause why I should be reprehended as one that attributeth more vnto him selfe then male seeme to stand with modestie This muche being said for proufe of habilitie some perhappes would beare what I haue to saie for my selfe that I am not lothe to take paines For he that is hable to doo a good and profitable worke and refuseth the labour to doo it seemeth to be gilty of slâ—wth True it is to refel al that M. Iewel hath written or rather gathered together out of others for in deedâ— he doth nothing els in manner but laie together heâ—pes of other mennes sayinges against the Catholique Churche and against the Catholique Religion it were greate paine By iudgement bothe of Cicero and Quintilian the labour of writing is accompted very greate And the Scripture saith Eccles 12. Faciendi plures libros nullus est finis frequénsque meditatio carnis afflictio est There is no ende of making moe Bookes and the often breaking of a mannes braines about suche studie is a greate pounishment to the bodie If any doubte hereof let him set him selfe a worke earnestly about writing in suche sorte as I speake of and he shal saie as I doo I doubte not And therefore it behoueth them that geue them selues to writing to haue not onely health but also good strength of bodie Al this M. Iewel knewe right wel And for that very cause when he sawe that smal bookes would fone be answered as it appeared by my Answer made to his Chalenge and by my Confutation of the Apologie he thought it better policie or it was so put in his head by the aduise of his brethren to goe an other waie to worke that is to saie to replie vpon me and to make his Defence with huge Volumes that either a long time should passe before an answere could be returned hoping that in the meane while his Gospel should take too deepe a roote afterward to be pluckt vp out of the Readers haâ—tâ—s by any what so euer booke that should come to their handes or that I should be wearied and worne out with the labour of answering and perhappes die before I came to the ende or that the very hugenesse of the bookes should fraie me from the enterprise of making aâ—swer In this case it seemed to mee best neither by taking vpon me to answere the whole Bookes and euery parcel of them to geue our Aduersaries the aduantage of the time not to shorten my life by immoderate paines emploied to no great profite nor by my silence and by open geuing ouer the whole as it were by fleeing out of the fielde to leaue them vnto their Triumphe but by answering the pointes of greatest importance to set forth a sufficient Defence of the truth for staying of the doubteful to confirme them in the true doctrine and thereby to geue out a cleere euidence what truthe is to be looked for in the reste of his superfluous stuffe sith he hath shewed him selfe so vntrue a dealer in the chiefe matters Thus haue I doâ—ne not yeelding to slewth but moued with good aduise noâ— as being loth to take paines and to susteine a long trauaile but as one who the state of the present time considered and the vncertaintie of thinges to come mistrusted thought it better to doo some good out of hande though it were of losse labour then by long differring whiles a larger Volume were intended to suffer to the losse of many soules so muche false doctrine to grow in credite As touching the Replie what hath benne donne to those that reade our bookes it is not vnknowen What so euer he had to bring against the Râ—â—â—â—resâ—nce against the Sacrifice of the Bodie and bloude of Christâ— against the Masse whereat the Priest receiueth the Communion without other companie receiuing sacramentally with him in the same place against the Churche Sâ—â—â—ice in a learned tongue against the anciâ—â—◠〈◊〉 of
holy Images in Churches and against the prâ—â—acie of his Successour to whom louing Christ more then the reste of the Apostles Iohan. 21. it was specially said feede my sheepâ— whiche are the weightiest and chiefe among al the Articles of his Chaleâ—ge and whereof al the restâ— in manner doo depende Al this is fully confuted by M. D. Sandeâ— by M. Doâ—man by M. Stapleton and by mee As for his Sophistrie and manifolde Arte wherewith he enuâ—igleth the vnlearned muche like to that by which Mountebanckes gete their lyuing and sundrie craftie false and absurde practises M. Rastel hath truly diligently and wittily detected them in three bookes written to that purpose in whiche by the very Title of eche booke he geueth al menne warning to beware of M. Iewel When I considered these chiefe and most special Articles of the Replie so wel and sufficiently confuted and the rest of that Volume to conteine nothing els but needelesse heapes of diuers Writers sayinges either true and of vs confessed or fowly falsified and corrupted and wrested to a sense quite contrarie to the authours meaning or otherwise not perteining to the proufe of any thing by the Catholiques denied or to the disproufe of any thing by them affirmed I thought I might doo wel to laie a side the Replie for a time and to go in hande with some answer to the pretensed Defence of the Apologie Here what should I doo Many as I vnderstand haue wisshed that I made a ful answer to the whole and to euery parcel of it and for the better perfourmance thereof they would allow me a yere or two more This desire requireth M. Iewels great Volume to be printed againe that is to saie the Apologie my Confutation and the texte of the Defence and further so muche of my Confutation to be added as in printing his booke of set purpose he hath caused to be cut of from the reste and to be suppressed to the intent a great parte of the best proufes brought against him should not be seene in his booke which being added would amounte to one good parte the whole Confutation being diuided into three This ought to be done of necessitie if an answer to the whole were to be made For whereâ—â— al my Treatie must rise vpon the wordes of the Apologie and of my Confutation and of the Defence how should it be vnderstanded how iustly I impugne the Apologie and the Defence and mainteine my Confutation onlesse the places were laid forth before the Readers eies The booke then of the Defence being alreadie so great The chiefe pointes of the DefeÌ„ce being ansvvered for vvhat causes a ful ansvver to the reste vvas thought not necessarie as it is by that time a iuste answer should be added vnto it euery man that hath any iudgement in these thinges maie soone conceiue of what an huge quantitie my new printed Volume would be In deed were euery idle point answered and treated of at ful it would seeme to matche yea farre to ouermatche Foxes Huge Booke of his false Martyrs Verely to saie what reasonably I maiâ— saie neither can I in three yeres doo the worke of seuen yeres nor with a fewe Dallers defraie the charges of foure or fiue hundred poundes nor can I finde in my Conscience to bring the weake into danger by setting out suche an heretical booke bicause it is not possible but that among so many heresies and erroneous pointes some wil escape my penne vnrefelled were I neuer so diligent Nor thinke I it good and profitable in that vnfruitful trauaile to spende so great a parte of my later yeres Vnfruitful I meane bicause I shal be driuen for the most parte to bestow paines about light scoffes Cauilles wranglinges and vaine trifles worthy to be contemned rather then to be answered Briefly neither haue I liste to set out so huge a Volume which I beleeue very fewe would bye I haue therfore thought vpon an other waie wherein I hope to doo more good to others sure I am that to my selfe I shal doo lesse hinderance in respecte of time and health and neuerthelesse perfourme that whiche in this case is chiefly requisite Whereas then M. Iewelles pretensed Defence maie be reduced vnto three principal Headdes from whence The Summe of the Defence as from their springes the streames of the whole Booke doo runne whiche are 1 a desire to disgrace me 2 an ernest auouching of his new false doctrines in condemnation of the Catholique Faith and of the whole state of Ancient Religion 3 the reproufe of Priestes Bishoppes Cardinalles and the Popes manners in this Treatie I haue said somewhat in Defence of my selfe as it was behooful I should the most labour I haue emploied to defende the receiued doctrine of the Catholike Faith which he hath laboured much to impugne With the liues and manners of the Clergie I meddle litle Menne be menne and wherein they haue donne euil I accoumpt them worthy of reproufe no lesse then he Howbeit what so euer he bringeth al is not the Gospel that in this point procedeth from his penne and malice could neuer yet learne to saie wel Touching bothe doctrine and manners if it shal please God to geue our Countrie grace to imbrace that onely doctrine whiche is true and Catholique that is to saie whiche we defende against the Nouelties and Heresies of our time so busily by M. Iewel and by them of that side with al diligence force and policie set forth and commended to the people concerning order of life and manners their pleasant Gospel breedeth suche libertie loosenesse and lewdnes among them that receiue it that we doubte not but it shal easily to al appeare that when the Catholiques whom they cal Papistes liued worst the time brought forth moe felowes of Angelles then their time notwithstanding the great number they crake of bringeth forth felowes of honest menne when so euer they liue best if it maie be truely said that at any time they liue wel who haue cut them selues from that bodie of Christe into the members whereof onely the grace of God is deriued The Summe and order of this Treatie If then thou be desirours Christian Reader to vnderstande the order and purporte of this Treatie made for answer to the Defence for the present time thus it is First in defence of my selfe I haue shewed how vntruly and sclaunderously M. Iewel hath burdened me with certaine hateful Crimes in his Epistle to the Queenes Maiestie The Vntruthe of these pointes I haue thought good plainely to laie before the Readers eies by conference of the places in my Confutation whence he tooke the occasions of his sclaunders as he pretendeth by the quotations noted in the Margent Nexte whereas he findeth him selfe muche agreeued with the sharpnesse of my vtterance vsed in my Confutation and in my first Reioinder and to make credite thereof hath as it were into a Table cowched together a large heape of sharpe wordes pretended by
custome of falsifying al that he taketh in hande euen here also he playeth that parte as kindely as any where elles For although some suche wordes or the like be in deede founde in my writinges against him yet they beare not suche an owgly and lothsom visard as he putteth on them As for example whereas sometimes for good cause I can not finde in my harte to cal these mennes rash Innouation of the auncient religion their wicked abrogation of certaine Sacramentes their vile prophanation of the reste their horrible contempte of the body and bloude of Christe in the most blessed Sacrament of the Aulter whereas I say I can not finde in my harte to cal these thinges Godly procedinges restoring of the Gospel the sincere Worde the right Ministration of the Lordes Supper as they would al men to cal them but contrarywise Deuilish spite wickednes and villanie to cause the mater to seme more odious he reporteth my wordes thus your Deuilish spite your Deuilish wickednes your Deuilish villanie c as thoughe I had spoken them to him and to his felowes specially whereas for the more part suche wordes are spoken not in the second but in the third person of the Heretikes of our time indefinitely and in general Whiche neuerthelesse if I had spoken vnto him and them directly it had ben no greeuous sinne their desert considered For therein had I folowed the counsel whiche S. Antonie that blessed man gaue vnto his Scholers a litle before he departed this life To whom he said thus as S. Athanasius who wrote his life reporteth Athanas in vita Antonij Haereticorum venena vitate meumque erga eos odium sectamini Scitis quòd nullus mihi pacificus sermo cum eis fuerit Auoide the poisons of Heretiques and folow the hatred that I haue borne them Ye know that I had neuer any peaseable talke with them How so euer it be it had benne M. Iewels parte to haue vsed more truth in his writing But why did he not set forth my whole sayinges where suche wordes be placed What reason is it a man to burthen his Aduersarie with certaine wordes only and with silence to dissemble his entiere sentences By what laudable example hath he done thus Whiche of the olde Fathers euer did so If no man euer did it before these daies then so farre as the Catholique Church hath not erred in Faith and hath no neede now to receiue a new Gospel of Luther Zuinglius or Caluine by this practise he sheweth him selfe aswel a folower of the inuentours of new malice as a mainteiner of new Heresies Brentius the first author of this new deuise of laying the Aduersaries sharpe wordes together in one heape practized by M. Iewel This deuise of laying together in a heape al the sharpe wordes with whiche one feeleth him selfe prickte culled out of the aduersaries wriâ—â—nges is very strange and new and before this age whiche bringeth forth many rare nouelties was neuer vsed of any learned man In our time it is begonne and for ought I know first practized by Brentius who in the beginning of his booke against Bullinger entituled Recognitio propheticae Apostolicae doctrinae c written in defence of his newe doctrine of Vbiquitie laieth together in a heape al the wordes that Bullinger had vttered in his booke against him whiche might seeme sharpe rough and vngentle so softely must these menne now be handled after that they haue spent al their intemperate railing vpon the Pope the Papistes the most blessed Sacrament of the Aulter the daily Sacrifice the other Sacramentes and the godly Ceremonies of holy Churche Wherefore M. Iewel is not like to haue the glorie of this new deuise he must be content to yeelde it vnto Iohn Brentius whose ape and folower he is in this as in many other pointes worthy of smal praise Now if Bullinger the grande Captaine of the Sacramentaries of which secte M. Iewel is a professed mainteiner thought it not vnseemely for the grauitie of his Ministership to be so plaine with Brentius as to put him in minde sometimes of his deserued titles by saying he was Rixator Spiritus inflatus CaluÌ„niator c. a Branler In RespoÌ„sione BreÌ„tij ad primam partem Bullingeri pag. 8. 9. a pufte Sprite a spiteful speaker a skoffer a mocker a Hickescorner a peruerter a lyer vncleane impudeÌ„t a babler a brabler a craker a thrower of Christ out of his heauenly seate madde light childish a iangler a reuiler a sclaunderous person an Eutychian a Sophiste a railer woorse then Swenckefeldius him selfe Againe if he thought it not discommendable in him selfe being the chiefe Superintendent of Zurich to cal BreÌ„tius booke writen in defence of that new heresie Brentianas nebulas figmenta c. The mistes and deuises of Brentius Head vaine and peeuish â—oies knauish folies a doctrine dissoluing the hope of the faithfulles assured saluation in heauen a madnesse a phantasie Sophistrie crafty fetches most false deuises a feeble write Sophismes guiles a booke of Riddles a fabulous monstre a Sophistical Egypte stincking trifles prodigious Vbiquitie frantique wordes c If Bullinger I saie one of your noblest Worthies thought it not vnseemely for his degree and state to vse suche bitter eloquence and order of speach in reprouing Brentius and was neuer and it is like should neuer haue benne reproued for it among them of your owne Sacramentarie Secte M. Iewel why are you so heauy a Maister to me whom you esteeme muche lesse then Henrie Bullinger the Successour of your great Patriarke Zuinglius in the Chaier of your doctrine at Zurich as to blame that in me whiche you could not finde in your harte to disallow in Bullinger Wel how so euer in please you fauorably to iudge of your owne great Maisters and laye lode of reproches vpon me yet this muche you maie cal to your consideration Wordes considered alone without composition sounde good or euil according to their signification and al manner of wordes may be vsed without blame Of the sentences and whole sayinges onely where the circumstance may be considered and weighed faire or fowle speache is conceiued Now if thou wilt take the paines Reader to turne to the places of my bookes whence M. Iewel hath piked out those wordes for vse of whiche he reproueth me as a man of vncourteous vtterance thou shalt right wel perceiue in case heresie haue not vtterly bewitched thyne vnderstanding and bereued thee of al iudgement the verdure of my speache to be suche as may seme conuenient for a vessel of the holy Ghoste to taste of It may please M. Iewel to consider that by degree of Schoole and by lawful calling otherwise I stand in the place of teachers And therefore though at this present the Pulpite be denyed me yet I find not my selfe wholly so discharged of the office of teaching Now hauing no other conuenient meane to teache but by writing what ought I at this tyme to write
the very chiefe pointes in controuersie whereby he geueth out a secret confession of the weakenes of his side he inueieth at my person and with al his Rhetorique doth what he can to bring me in discredite with the Reader for my sharpenes and vehemencie of speache And faine would he al men to beleue that I lacke Discretion that Choler ruleth my penne that I vse wordes of more heate and bitternes then it becommeth either my vocation or the cause By this he seemeth to discharge me of what so euer is reprehensible in that other extreme Wherewith I am content For I had rather his quarel should be extended to the reproufe of my person then to the preiudice of the cause And doubtelesse if I had enclined to the other extreme way of writing he would not haue failed but haue turned al to argument of weakenes of our side In deede naturally by wordes and gesture we shew courage when our matter is good and of colde manner of handling there groweth a suspition that the matter is naught Had I therefore alwayes written coldly and softely I had ministred vnto M. Iewel a ioily occasion to insulte vpon me as though our cause had ben the weaker And so he would haue taken that aduantage against me which Cicero Cicero in Brutâ— M. Callidius as he writeth of him selfe once tooke against Marcus Callidius This M. Callidius as he witnesseth of him was an excellent man and was endewed with al singular graces apperteining to a perfit Orator saue that he was not vehement nor applied him selfe to stirre and moue the mindes of them that heard him Cicero and he were once matched together in a cause Callidius accused one Quintus Gallius laying to his charge before the Iudges that he had prepared poison wherewith to haue destroied him For proufe of it he declared that he tooke him in the manner and that he had in readines against him handwritinges witnesses signes examinations and shewed the matter to be manifest and disputed of the crime very exquisitely but yet soberly and coldly When Cicero came to make Defence in the behalfe of Gallius among other thinges that he treated like a cunning Orator at length he goeth from the crime obiected and from the matter it selfe to the manner of Callidius action and made the softnes of his demeanour and coldnes of his vtterance an argument of the others innocencie And there he beareth Callidius in hand that al was but a feined matter For saith he to him wouldst thou Callidius Cicero in Brute haue handled this case in such wise except thou hadst feined Vbi dolor Vbi ardor animi c. Where shewedst thou any griefe Where any heate of the minde Nulla perturbatio animi nulla corporis frons non percussa non femur pedis quod minimum est nulla supplâ—sio In al thy handling of the matter thou shewedst thy selfe to feele no trouble of minde nor of body Thou smotest not thy selfe on the forehed thou gauest not thy selfe a clappe on the thighe thou didst not so much which is the least of al as once stampe with thy foote Thus concluded Cicero against Callidius And thus doubtelesse would M. Iewel haue concluded against me if I had written my answer my Confutation and my Reioindre in such kinde of stile as the contrary whereof he besturreth him selfe so much to disproue in me Yea he would haue borne the worlde in hande which neuerthelesse sometimes he doth in effect gathering argument of the softe and colde manner of my writing that I had but feined to please men and had benne persuaded otherwise in my harte How so euer I had written he was determined to reprehende me In very deede had I thought that he would not haue abused my softenes to shew of the more confidence in his cause and that the same should not haue brought any preiudice to our cause I would haue forborne al roughnes and sharpenes and would more gladly haue folowed the temperate and quiet vaine of myne owne nature Howbeit what he was like to finde at my hande I gaue him warning at the first where I said that In the preface to M. Ievvel before my Ansvver if perhappes I should sometimes seeme to scarre or lawnce a festered bunche that deserued to be cut of I would him to remember how the meekest and the holiest of the auncient Fathers in reprouing heretiques oftetimes haue shewed them selues Zelous earnest eager sharpe and bitter Now to ende this matter wherein I confesse I haue dwelte longer then I intended when I began I pray thee gentle Reader if feare of Excommunication staie thee not from reading heretical Bookes for some parte of my discharge and that M. Iewels falsehode in this thing also as in al other that he taketh in hand may appeare to vew his booke of the Defence and myne of the Confutatioâ— To make the case moâ—e odious on my side and to bearâ— thee in handâ— that I 〈◊〉 vsed sharpenes in writing contrarie to myne owne promise behold how fowly he hath falsified my wordes Thus falsly he layeth the matter forth Iewel M. Ievvel falsifieth this place by cuttiÌ„g avvaie and by changing vvordes M. Harding in the Preface before his Confutation of the Apologie then thus he maketh me to speake The manner of vvriting vvhich I haue here vsed in comparison of our Aduersaries is sober and gentle c. And in respecte of their heate bitternesse and railing as many tel me ouer colde svveete and milde Harding Here good Reader with his c he cutteth of my wordes that doo fully answer his obiection and quite altereth the sense of the place by changing But into And and by leauing out my whole tale that there folowed whereby any reasonable man might be satisfied Thus al his reproufes of me and al his other obiections against the catholike doctrine wil be found false if euery mannes sayinges be onely vewed and so to any indifferent man they shal seeme sufficiently confuted by conference of the bookes onely If his continual falsifyinges be not espied and tried out maruel it is not if the Reader conceiue sinister opinion of me Let al be tried by the bookes not by his false reportes and I doubt not of the iudgement of al that be indifferent in their iudgementes As for those that be parcial and wilfully addicted to their owne likinges I make lesse accompte of them then I haue pitie of them My whole saying then truly reported is this The manner of writing which I haue here vsed in comparison of our aduersaries is sober softe and gentle yet vehementer rougher and sharper then for my woont and nature but in respect of their heate bitternes and railing as many tel me ouer colde swete and milde How so euer it shal seme to thee Reader herein I haue done as I thought best Wel I am assured I haue not gone farre from the steppes of the most praised auncient Fathers of whom who haue
in So were they restored and held their former roumes And thereupon were made diuers cries in signification of ioy Thus it is euideÌ„t that Iuuenalis and Thalassius were not condemned by the Ciuile Magistrate as M. Iewel saith But M. Iewel allegeth Pope Leos Epistle to Anatholius the B. of Constantinople speaking of these Bishoppes to proue I cannot tel what Defence pag. 683. For thereof it can not be gathered that they were condemned by the ciuile Magistrate These be the wordes of Leo. De nominibus Dioscori c. Touching the names of Dioscorus Iuuenalis and Eustathius Leo epist 40. ad AnatholiuÌ„ not to be rehearsed at the holy Aulter it becoÌ„meth you to kepe this muche By these wordes and the other that folow immediatly Leo required Anatholi to see that the names of those Bishops that had coÌ„sented to Dioscorus vnto the vniust condeÌ„nation of blessed B. Flauianus should not as the manner then was be rehersed at th'Aulter in the time of the Masse among other Catholik Bishops wherby they were praied for specially in that Church of CoÌ„staÌ„tinople wher Flauianus had ben bishop Ibidem that so iniurie should not be donne saith he vnto the blessed memorie of Flauianus and that by so doing he should not turne awaie the mindes of the Christian people from his owne grace and fauour For how could the people gladly heare their names rehearsed in that Churche Iuuenaliâ— not condeÌ„ned in the Councel of ChalcedoÌ„ by Vvitnes of Leo Leo ad IuuenaleÌ„ epist 72. by whom the most worthy Bishop of the same Church was most vniustly condeÌ„ned and deposed As for Iuuenalis the Bishop of IerusaleÌ„ Leo him selfe in his Epistle vnto him is a manifest witnes that he was not coÌ„deÌ„ned but restored againe vnto his Bishoprik For thus he writeth vnto him among other thinges Gauisus quideÌ„ sum quòd tibi ad Episcopatus tui sedem redire licuisset I reioised that it was made lawful for thee to returne home againe vnto thy Bishoprike Againe he saith vnto him eftsones there In tempore indulgentia resipiscentiam magis quà m pertinaciaÌ„ de legisti In the time when pardon might be obteined thou hast chosen amendement rather then stubbornesse Thus I haue sufficiently proued that the six Bishops M. Iewel not hauing sene the Original but trusting to an others note as it seemeth nameth but only three were not condemned of the ciuile Magistrate by sentence of his owne mouth but that Dioscorus and not one els was condemned and deposed not by lay Magistrates who gaue place to the Bishops in that case as I haue before declared but by sentence of the Popes Legates and by the Councel it selfe Now bicause M. Iewel taketh me vp very roundely in his pretensed Defence as if he had gotten a great coÌ„quest against me whereas after a huge number of shamelesse Vntruthes he chargeth me with many Vntruthes I wil here by waie of a briefe dialogue answere him reporting his wordes none otherwise then he him selfe hath vttered them speaking vnto me in his booke Iewel Defence Pag. 685. Novve shortly to consider the vvhole substance of your tale first ye say these three Bishops Dioscorus Iuuenalis and Thalassius vvere neuer condemned in the Councel of Chalcedon M. Iewels obiection of Vntruthes ansvvered This ye see is one vntruth Harding In deede I see it and graunt it to be an Vntruth But of your parte M. Iewel not of mine For as now ye see it by me sufficiently prooued onely Dioscorus the B. of Alexandria was condemned and that by the Councel not by the Ciuile Magistrate as you vntruly affirme Iuuenalis Thalassius and the other three in consideration of their submission and agreeing in beleefe vnto the Councel were pardoned admitted into the Councel and restored vnto their former roumes and dignities Iewel Secondly ye saie the Ciuile Magistrate neuer condemned them This is an other vntruthe Harding True it is it is an other Vntruthe But it is yours not myne For in deede as I haue before proued the Ciuile Magistrate did not condemne them but the Councel of Bishoppes condemned Dioscorus onely This being true it followeth that your contrarie saying is an Vntruthe Iewel Thirdly ye saie Iunenalis and Thalassius vvere rebuked for fitting as iudges in Councel vvithout the Popes authoritie These are tvvo other vntruthes Harding Ye are rise of your Vntruthes Of two I returne one backe vnto you againe For the reporte you make of my wordes is vntrue Looke better in my Confutation There ye shal finde me to speake otherwise not determinatly as you report but coniecturally thus Confutat fol. 316. a They might wel haue rebuke for misusing them selues in the seconde Councel at Ephesus where they sate like Iudges without authoritie of the See of Rome Al this considered with that I haue declared before touching this whole matter lâ—â— the indifferent reader iudge yea one of your owne secte being learned if he wil take the paines to vewe and conferre al that I haue here written with the place in your pretensed Defence whether I had not iust cause to saie as I said in my Confutation what is Impudencie what is licenceous lying what is false dealing if this be not If I seeme ouer long Reader in this point the blame ought to be M. Iewels whose manifold Vntruthes and shamelesse shiftes vsed in his Defence to coloure this matter haue driuen me to vse more prolixitie then otherwise I woulde haue donne After this folow in M. Iewels View of his Vntruthes six mo Vntruthes whiche although he hath aduisedly chosen bothe out of my Reioindre and out of my Confutation as the easiest for him to make his answer vnto and to defende yet by ought he is hable to saie he hath not so iustified the leaste but that he maie yet stande charged The three vntruthes of the Apologie next folowing be of no great weight I confesse And therefore I wil not spend time about them Yet great malice maie lye hidde vnder smal trifles For the trial of them I referre the Reader to bothe our bookes The. 11. The. 12. The. 13. Vntruth Reioind fol. 251. b. The Apologie part 2 c. 13. d. 1. Apology part 2. c 1 Diuis 1. What I said of these wordes post finem orationum true it is and vntrue it is that M. Iewel saith Likewise Origen hath Ille Cibus that meate not ille Panis as M. Iewel vntruly alleged As for the place of S. Augustine whiche M. Iewel noteth in his 13. Vntruthe whether the worde be Oportet or Potest it is doubteful Bookes of diuers editions haue diuersly The point which by that place he woulde proue conteineth heresie So that though it were not an Vntruth in worde yet is it a great Vntruthe in sense and meaning M. Ievv The Apologie Parte 5. cap. 3. Diuis 11. The olde Councel of Carthage commaunded nothing to be readde in the Congregation but the Canonical Scriptures The. 14. Vntruth This olde Councel
that those obiections are answered and fully soluted by M. D. Saunder in his 7. booke of the supper of our Lord partly also by me in my Answer And so doth he in this pretensed Defence repete his olde stuffe whiche he laid forth in his Replie before as if the same had not benne already answered and confuted Iewel Pag. 16. VVe neuer armed the people nor taught them to rebel for Religion against the Prince If any thing hath at any time happened othervvise it vvas either some vvilful rage or some Fatal furie It vvas not our Coâ—â—sel it vvas not our Doctrine Harding That the Professours of this new Gospel haue stirred the people to Rebellions A notorious Vntruthe in sight of al menne This is a famous and an euident vntruthe controlled by the bloudy practises yea and by printed writinges of your owne Brethren the Caluinistes It is notoriously knowen and manifest that of late in Valencenes two Ministers of your religion were at great variance in the towne about this point Variance of opinioÌ„ betvven tvvo Ministers of Valencenes vvhiles it vvas besieged at what time the gates were shutte and king Philippes armie laie in siege before the walles The one preached and taught that they did wel and lawfully to rebel for Religion against their Prince The other thought it could not be defended for lawful by Gods worde And therefore these two being afterwarde taken the towne being conquered the one was hanged and broken the other but hedded And here M. Fox might haue stuffe to encrease his Martyrologe Christopher GoodmaÌ„ M. Christopher Goodman in his booke How to obey or disobey Pag. 204. commendeth as lawful the Rebellion of Wyat and calleth them plainely Traitours whiche tooke no parte with Wyat. Iohn knox of Scotland What Iohn Knox that Fierbrande of Scotland hath written and done to whose eares by publique fame is it not come In Tournay likewise not long agoe The Ministers of Tournay Poltrot persuaded by Beza to kil the Duke of Guise See the CoÌ„fession of Poltrote IteÌ„ Claudius de Saincts in Responsione ad Apologiam Beza Luther Tomo 6. Germanico fo 602 the Ministers did not only counsel the Citie to rebel but also tooke the whole Gouernement and administration of Ciuil matters into their owne handes That Theodore Beza counselled and persuaded Poltrot that wretched Caitife to murder the noble Duke of Guise his Princes Captaine General not only Poltrot coÌ„fessed it but Beza him selfe craketh and reioiseth thereof and defendeth the facte partly in a litle booke made for that very purpose partly in his Preface vpon Esaie Luther expressely in a booke De seculari potestate whiche he made in the yere of our Lorde 1523. and is extant in his workes laboureth to proue by Scripture that among Christians there ought to be no superiour power or Magistrate And in an other booke made a litle before his death Anno. 1545. intitled thus Ad Electorem Saxoniae Lantgrauium Hessiae D. Martin Lutherus de Captiuo Brunsuicensi prouoketh subiectes to fight against their Prince for Religion and saith of subiectes they do tempt God whiche vse not their weapons when they may See the Apologie of Staphylus Melanchton in libello ad Bohemos Silesios stirred the Bohemians to rebellion MelaÌ„chthon He also in the yere 1548. wrote openly against the Emperour Charles the fifth in the time of the rebellion of Saxonie and Hesse as witnesseth Illyricus in Informatione sua de quibusdam Articul parte 3. fol. 129. 137. sequent Iewel The Nobles and Commons there that is in Scotland neither drevve the svvorde nor attempted force against the Prince Harding What is a lie if this be none I praie you good Syr are you onely a straunger in these matters When in the daies of the late King there the Queenes husband the said Quene and her husband were for a time daily in the fielde and in armes against some of their Nobles was there none then in Scotland that attempted force against her Was al that armie assembled and in field to fight with the ayre or to keepe crowes from the corne When the Lorde Hambleton Hambleton and Lorde Iames of Scotland and the L. Iames with others fled some into England some into Fraunce was there none of her Nobles or Commons that had attempted force against her When during the Quenes absence in Fraunce they ouerthrewe Churches and Monasteries attempted not they force against the prince whose plaine commaundement was to the contrarie The Quenes Secretarie slaine vvithout force by M. Ievv When her Secretarie was by force taken from her and outragiously murdered with in her hearing when she with her husband by night was faine to flee vnto the Castle of Dumbar when at an other time she was driuen to retire to Edinburg in great haste not without daunger passing through waters without any staie where she lost Arture one of her most trusty seruantes Arture drowned was there in al these matters no force attempted against the Quene neither by her Nobles nor by the Commons What hath happed sithence I neede not to speake Time shal trie how vntrue it is that you saie Thinke you that such grosse and palpable lies maie euer be defended Then tel vs VViate that Wyate rebelled not against Queene Marie as your brother Christopher Goodman saith in deede that the Gues here in the Low Countrie The Gueâ— of the Lovv Countrie no Rebelles by M Ievvel neither the Huguenotes of FraÌ„ce namely they of the towne of Valencenes and they of Tournay and others haue not rebelled against king Philip nor the Huguenotes vnder the Prince of Conde in Fraunce against their liege Soueraine the French King Yea and then tel vs the Snowe is blacke and the Crowe is white But I praie you M. Iewel if they attempted not force against their Prince what did they You say Iewel They sought only the continuance of Gods vndoubted Truth Harding Put the case they did so And let open Heresie stande ones for Gods truth Was that a lawful and commendable meane to seeke it by Beholde though before you denied they attempted any thing against the Prince yet now you defende their disobedience saying Iewel The Subiecte is bound to obey his Prince RebellioÌ„ against Princes defended by M. Ievvel Act. 5. Psal 118. Hovvbeit not in al thinges vvithout exception but so farre as Gods glorie is not touched These Nobles had learned of S. Peter It is better to obey God then man And of the prophete Dauid Better it is to truste to God then to truste in Princes Harding S. Peter by this saying teacheth vs not to rebel against the Prince for maintenance of Religion Had these Nobles as you say learned this lesson The .6 Chapt. And doth this lesson either of S. Peter or of the Prophete Dauid teache the Subiecte to resiste and take Armes against his Prince in case the Prince doth commaund any thing
the outward gouernment the being of a Head is common to Christe with others For in this respecte certaine others maie be called Headdes of the Church as in Amos the prophete the great states be called the Heades of the people So the Scripture speaketh of King Saul When thou were a litle one in thine owne eyes thou wast made Head emong the tribes of Israel So Dauid saith of him selfe he hath made me Head of Nations Amos. 6. 1. Reg. 15. Psal 17. Headship in respect of gouernement diuers in Christ and in menne * Left out by M. Ievvel In this sense the name of Head is attributed to princes and gouernours And yet not altogether so as to Christ First forasmuche as Christe is Head of al those that perteine to the Churche according to euery place euery time and euery state But menne are called Heades in regard of certaine special places as Bishoppes be called heades of their Churches Or in respect of a determinat time as the Pope is Head of the whole Church during the time of that calling And according to a determinate state euen so as menne be in the state of this mortal life for further stretcheth not this humanie Headship Againe the name of Head is attributed to Christe an other waie bicause Christe is Head of the Churche by his owne power and authoritie * Menne be called Headdes in asmuch as they be in steed of Christe and vnder Christe after whiche meaning S. Paule saith to the Corinthians 2. Cor. 2. For if I forgaue any thing to whom I forgaue it for your sakes forgaue I it in persona Christi in the person of Christe and in an other place we are Ambassadours in the steede of Christe 2. Cor. 5. euen as though God did exhorte you through vs. To conclude in fewe according to inward influence of grace into euery faithful member Christe onely is Head of the Churche according to outward gouerning the Pope vnder Christe and in steede of Christe is Head of the same These be my wordes there M. Iewel To whiche bicause you had nothing to saie you answer by your accustomed arte of mangling hewing awaie what liked you not by falsifying them and by putting in your owne selfe wordes in place of myne that teache the truthe And at length you fal to skoffing at my Logique making fonde and peeuish Argumentes of your owne forging bearing the simple reader in hande they are mine whiche God knoweth I neuer made nor no wise man elles For they are suche as of al that peruse your writinges you maie be knowen by them as a Begger is by his patched cloke or rather as a Vise is knowen by his Babul The greatest thing you saie is that al is myne owne tale that I tel and that I bring in no Scripture nor Doctour To this I answere Were it true that you saie as my Booke it selfe prooueth it false yet in this case my Yea hytherto is as good as your Nay and better too bicause it standeth with the vniforme Doctrine of the Churche Be it I allege no Authoritie of Scripture or Doctour to prooue the Pope Head bicause I am not yet comme to the place where I minde to prooue it Yet my case standeth as good as youres that bring neither Scripture nor Doctour to the contrarie If it had pleased you ye might haue founde bothe Doctours and Scriptures more The Rock of the Churche then you would gladly heare of in M. D. Sanders booke entitled the Rocke of the Church written for that behalfe and in M. Sapletons Returne written against your so many grosse Vntruthes and errours The Returne of Vntruths You crake muche of your great skil in Logique in comparison of other mennes ignorance searche out I praie you emong your rules of Logique whether Distinctio multiplicis in quaestione positi the Distinction of a worde that hath diuers significations placed in a controuersie ought not to goe before the disputation of the controuersie If it ought then haue I done rightly and orderly in that I made a Distinction of the terme Head before I entred to proue the Pope to be Head and you ignorantly and disorderly in calling vppon me to doo two thinges together against al good order of nature reason and learning or to doo the later before I had ended the former Testimonies auouching the Pope to be head of the Churche Peter the chiefe mēber of the Churche Gregor li. 4. epis 38. Now bicause you be so hasty to haue some Doctour to proue that the Pope is Head somewhat to satisfie your hasty humour the Authoritie of S. Gregorie afterwarde alleged by your selfe maie suffice any wise man who calleth S. Peter the chiefe member of the Church which the Pope succeding in that right of Peter is al one with that we saie the Pope is Head in gouernment vnder Christe What difference I praie you can your wisedome put betwixte the chiefe member and a Head vnder an other or in the steede of an other Chrysost in Matth. homil 55. It is your happe alwaie to allege Doctours to your owne Confusion S. Chrysostome also witnesseth that Peter was such a Head saying of him Ecclesia Pastor Caput Piscator homo The fisherman by whom he meaneth Peter is the shepehearde and head of the Churche Againe he saith in an other place Quod si quis percontaretur Chrysost in Ioan. Hom. 87. quo modo Iacobus Sedem Hierosolymis acceperit responderem hunc totius orbis magistrum praeposuisse In case any man would demaunde of me this question how Iames came to haue the See at Ierusalem I would answere him that this Peter the Maister of the whole worlde made him Bishop there Lo Peter Maister of the vvhole vvorlde he calleth Peter the Maister of the whole worlde by whiche worde what elles signifieth he but that he was the Head touching spiritual gouernment of the whole worlde He saith furthermore and that most plainely in an other place Ieremiam Genti vni pater Chrysost Hom. 55. in Matth. hunc autem vniuerso terrarum orbi praeposuit God the Father made Ieremie the Head and Gouernour ouer one nation onely that was the nation of the Iewes but as for this man Peter made hed of the vvhole vvorlde by Christ to wit Peter Christe made him Head and Gouernour ouer the whole worlde Are you contented now Verely I haue folowed your minde willingly And if ye require mo the like testimonies of me I remitte you to the Answer Ansvver I made vnto your Chalenge Art 4. fol. 9. b. c. where you shal finde that maie satisfie any learned man touching this pointe Neither are you hable to auoide the plaine force of those testimonies for al the great a doo you haue made in your huge Replie Iewel Pag. 94. Ye saie S. Paule saith If I forgaue any thing for your sakes 2. Cor. 2. I forgaue it in the personne
of a bishops office by one that is not a bishop that perteineth to the consecration of a Bishop And wil you vnderstand what Epiphanius iudged of that wicked disorder He acknowledgeth it to be the part of men that of a certaine presumption of minds violently and besides all truth play the rash and dissolute wantons VVhat Epiphanius iudgeth of it For so the Greeke signifieth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Thus they be neither Priestes nor Deacons which be not consecrated laufully according to the order vsed in the Church that is to wit by bishops laufully consecrated but either by the people or the lay magistrate as it is in some places where this doctrine is professed or by monkes and friers Apostates or by excommunicate priestes hauing no bishoply power In Dialogo contra Luciferia nos Hereof S. Hierome saith notably Hilarius cùm Diaconus de Ecclesia recesserit c. Hilary forasmuch as he weÌ„t from the Church being a Deacon and is only as he thinketh the multitude of the world can neither consecrate the Sacrament of the aulter being without Bisshop and Priestes nor deliuer Baptisme without the Eucharist And where as now the man is dead with the man also the Sect is ended because being a Deacon he could not consecrate any clercke that should remaine after him And Church is there none which hath not a Priest SacerdoteÌ„ But letting go these fewe of litle regard that to them selues be both lay and Bisshops listen what is to be thought of the Church Thus S. Hierome there In whom leauing other thinges I note that if there be no Church where is no Priest where is your Church like to become after that our Apostates that now be fled froÌ„ vs to you shal be departed this life Leaft out by M. Ievvel By S. Hierome the English â—hurch shal be no Churche at al. And yet being with you as they be your Church is already in such state as S. Hierome reporteth that is no Churche at al howe so euer ye set foorth your newe gospel vnder the name of the Church of England Bucer being once charged to geue accompt of his vocation had no other shifte but to acknowledge for defence of his ministerie that he had taken Orders of a bishop after the rite and maner of the Catholike Church Luthers aduise touching Muncers vocation Sleidan recordeth that Luther himselfe wrote to the senate of Mulhusen concerning Muncer the preacher of the Anabaptistes who stirred the common people of Germanie to rise against their nobilitie that the senate should do wel to demaund of Muncer who committed to him the office of teaching and who had called him thereto And if he would name God for his authour that then they should require him to proue his vocation by some euident signe or miracle If he could not do that then he aduised them to put him awaye For this is the wont of God said he when so euer he willeth the accustomed forme and ordinarie maner to be changed to declare his wil by some signe * Of vvhat maner is the vocation of our super intendetâ— Therefore this being true it remaineth M. Iewel you tel vs whether your vocation be ordinarie or extraordinarie If it be ordinarie shewe vs the letters of your Orders At lest shewe vs that you haue receiued power to do the office you presume to exercise by due order of laying on of handes and consecration But order and consecration you haue not For who coulde geue that to you of al these newe ministers how so euer els you cal them whiche he hath not him selfe If it be extraordinarie as al that ye haue done hytherto is besides al good order shewe vs some signe or miracle If you faile in al these why ought not you to be put awaie * The Defenders haue nothing to say for defence of their vocatioÌ„ If you can shew no signe or miracle as your vertue promiseth vs none bring vs forth some example of your extraordinarie vocation out of the Stories of Christes Church that hath folowed the Apostles If you be destitute also thereof at lest shewe vs what prophete in the olde Testamente euer was heard extraordinarily without signe or miracle or testimonie of God * Leaft out by M. Ievvel Finally what can you answer to that Lib. 1. Epist 6. whiche may be obiected to you out of S. Cyprians epistle to Magnus touching Nouatian It was at those dayes a question whether Nouatian baptized and offered specially where as he vsed the forme manner and ceremonies of the Churche Cyprian denieth it Eusebius Ecclesiast Hist li. 6. cap. 43. in Graec. For he can not saith he be compted a Bisshop who setting at nought the Tradition of the Gospel and of the Apostles nemini succedens à seipso ordinatus est succeding no man is ordeined bisshoppe of him selfe For by no meanes may one haue or holde a Churche that is not ordeined in the Churche Leaft out by M. Ievvel M. Ievvel and the rest of his companions be no bishops but vsurpers of an vndue office and ministerie I leaue here to recite the rest of that Epistle perteining to this point and al against you for that it were to long Thus it is euident for as muche as you can neither prooue your doctrine by continual Succession of Priestes nor referre your Imposition of handes to any Apostle or Apostolike Bishoppe nor shewe your Vocation to be ordinarie for lacke of lauful ordination and consecration nor extraordinarie for lacke of Gods testimonie and approbation by signe or miracle or example of the olde or newe Testament that you are not laufully called to the administration of Doctrine and Sacramentes that you are not duely and orderly preferred to the Ministerie whiche you exercise that you go not being called that you runne not being sent Therefore we may iustly say that ye haue thrust your selfes into that Ministerie at your owne pleasure and lyst For though the Prince haue thus promoted you yet be ye presumers and thrusters in of your selues Wel landes and manours the Prince may geue you Priesthod and Bishophod the Prince can not geue you Ierem. 23. This being so we doo you no wrong as ye complaine in telling you and declaring to the world that touching the exercise of your Ministerie ye do nothing orderly or comely but al thinges troublesomly and without order Onlesse ye meane such order and comelines as theeues obserue among them selues in the distribution of their robberies Lastly if ye allowe not euery man yea and euery woman to be a Priest why driue ye not some of your felowes to recant that so haue preached why allow ye the bookes of your newe Euangelistes that so haue writen Leaft out by M. Ievvel And whether ye admitte al sortes of the common people to be your Ministers of the worde to teache the people and vnreuerently to handle the holy Scriptures or no our
Counters the Kinges Beanch and other prisons in London be hable to kepe men fast But if you speake of your owne Church surely you had Apostates and renegate priestes in it Aduersus LuciferiaÌ„ or you had no Church at al as out of S. Hierome I shewed before who saith no Priest no Church And verely no trew Church euer was there without an External and publike Sacrifice which it might offer to God to acknowlege that he is the beginning and ende of al grace and goodnes But where no external Priesthod is as you now beleue ther is none there is no external Sacrifice and coÌ„sequeÌ„tly no true Church And seing renegate priestes can not make a true Church nor their Sacrifice can be acceptable vnto God yea rather seing they are of the mind and belefe that it is not lawful to honour God with the external Sacrifice of Christes owne body and bloud leaft to vs for that intent it doth stil follow that although ye haue true Priestes which runne from vs yet haue ye neither true Sacrifice by them nor true Church Ievvel Pag. 131. Tâ—rtullian saith Nonne laici sacerdotes sumus scriptum est c. And vve being laye men are vve not priestes it is written In exhortatione ad CastitateÌ„ Christ hath made vs both a kingdome and priestes vnto God his father The authoritie of the Church and the honour by the assemblie or Councel of Order sanctified of God hath made a difference betwen the laye and the clergie whereas there is no assemblie of ecclesiastical Order the priest being there alone vvithout the companie of other priestes doth both minister the oblatioÌ„ and also baptize Yea and be there but three together and though they be laye men yet is there a Church For euery man liueth of his owne faith Harding Wonder not M. Iewel as you confesse that once you did at your misfortune and euil lucke in that by vs a thowsand faultes are sooner fownd in your bookes then you could wel without blushing if any shame were in you note two hundred in myne For who so euer writeth against the truth can not possibly bring one word which for maintenance of an vntruth may be altogether truly applied after the writers minde out of whome the same is alleged onlesse that writer were him selfe an Heretike or in that behalfe by better iudgement noted of some errour Therefore it is easier to find many thowsand Lyes in your bookes then any fewe in myne And as that hath ben shewed in many other examples heretofore so shal it now appeare most euidently in this which you bring out of Tertullian TertulliaÌ„ in exhort ad castitatem MoÌ„tanus and Tertullian coÌ„demned the secoÌ„d Mariages First the booke and worke that you allege is one of those which Tertullian wrote against the Churche after that he became an Heretike and was one of the disciples of Montanus For as Montanus did condemne the second Mariages so did his scholar Tertullian Who hauing corruptly interpreted many places of S. Paule commeth at the length to proue his heresie by conferring the olde Testament with the new Ecce in veteri lege c. Beholde saith he in the olde lawe I finde the licence of mariyng ofte to be inhibited It is enacted in the booke of Leuiticus Sacerdotes mei non plus nubent my Priestes shal not marrye any more But the fulnes of the law as in other pointes so in this was reserued to Christe alone VVhereupon it was more fully and more streightly prescribed that those ought bo be of one matrimonie who are chosen in the Priestly ordâ—r In so much that I my selfe remember certaine menne for hauing had two wiues to haue ben remoued from their place of Priesthod An obiection of TertulliaÌ„ against him selfe But thou wilt say Then is it lawful for other menne to marrie twise for so much as exception is made against them to wit against Priestes to whom it is not lauful to haue ben twise maried Hitherto Tertullian hath gon about by the example of the Priestes of the olde and new Testament to shew that Laye men also may not marrye but once For in the newe Testament S. Paule would haue them only chosen to Priesthod Tit. 1. The husband of one vvife who are or haue benne the husbandes of one wife that is to saye haue neither had two wiues at once nor haue married a widowe nor haue had two wiues one after an other For al this doth the Apostle meane and the auncient Fathers do so witnesse Now Tertullian saw euidently that there was a difference betwen Priestes and laye menne whereupon he made the former obiection to him selfe that the second mariages which only do staye a man from being Priest are absolutely lawful for him who wil be no Priest but wil remaine stil in the degree and state of laye men To the which obiection being to strong for Tertullian it behoued him so to answere as yet his heresie against the second mariages might be mainteined So that nowe M. Iewel bringeth forth his heretical answer made vnto a Catholikes argument Thus then Tertullian goeth forwarde Vani erimus si putauerimus quòd Sacerdotibus noÌ„ liceat laicis licere nonne laici Sacerdotes sumus We shal be deceiued or we shal be vaine men if we shal thinke that to be lawful for Laye menne whiche is not lawful for Priestes We that are Laye men are we not Priestes also And so he goeth forward with that which M. Iewel did allege for his purpose Double priesthod For wheras there is a double Priesthod one publike and external which is onely coÌ„mon to those that receiue power to consecrate Christes Body and Bloud at the Altare the other priuate and internal which is indifferently common to the Priestes and to laye men whereby they al receiue power in Baptisme to offer spiritual Sacrifices vnto God 1. Pet. 2. as S. Peter saith Tertullian would haue the argument to be good that as none are made publike and external Priestes whiche haue had two wiues so none who are internal priestes might haue two wiues But Tertullian is deceiued in his heretical argument as wel as M. Iewel is in alleging an heretical authoritie Whereupon S. Hierome saith Montanus TertulliaÌ„ enemie â—o sâ—coÌ„d mariages qui Nouati schisma sectaÌ„tur putant secunda matrimonia ab Ecclesiae communione prohibenda cùm Apostolus de Episcopis Praesbyteris hoc praecipiens vtique in caeteris relaxârit non quòd hortetur ad secunda matrimonia sed quòd necessitati carnis indulgeat Montanus and those who followe the schisme of Nouatus thinke that the second Mariages ought to be forbidden from the Communion of the Church whereas the Apostle geuing that commaundement vnto Bishoppes and priestes hath doubteles released it in other men Not that he exhorteth them to secoÌ„d mariages but bicuase he yeeldeth to the necessitie of the flesh So that S. Hierome reproueth
yet haue benne more plaine if you M. Iewel had not practized your olde false sleight in cutting of my wordes For when I had asked whether D. Capon Shaxton Campegius or Audley or any other bishops of Sarisburie taught your doctrine I answered thereunto it is most certaine they did not How be it I staied not there but went forward to remoue that your obiection of Capon and Shaxton whiche I forsawe you would make And thereunto I said thus How so euer those two first named Capon M. Ievvel left out al these wordes bicause thei ansvvered him fully and Shaxton onely in some parte of their life taught amisse how afterward they repented abhorred your heresies and died Catholikes it is wel knowen Now beside these whome els can you name Al these wordes of myne you leafte out M. Iewel as if I had neuer printed them You leafte them out not onely by not answering them but also you did not suffer them to be printed in your booke emong myne owne wordes leaste you should haue benne answered before you had replied as most times you are as it should appeare if it would please the Reader but to vew and peruse my woordes ouer againe and diligently to conferre them with yours Which I wish him to doo not only for trial of this point but also al others whereof so euer both we haue treated And he shal say you were answered before you made the Replie confuted before you made your pretensed Defence But what conscience haue you that liue at least mainteine the life of your estimation among them of your Secte by lying by dissembling by cutting of by adding vnto by mangling your Doctours briefly by deceiuing the reader one waie or other You were ashamed to haue no predecessour at al in the See of Sarisburie and to be like Nouatian or Donatus and such other the like Heretikes And therefore you name two Predecessours both which protested at their death that you and al your felowes are Heretikes and repented that euer they communicated with you so farre as they did Thus you come of your selfe as the Deuil doth and shal come in his chief member Antichrist And you come not holding by lineal Succession nor by lawful Sending as Christ came being sent of his father and being borne of the seede of Dauid and of Abraham But you are without Predecessours and I am sure if God for our great sinnes forsake not our Coūtrie you shal not long haue Successours Iewel For the rest of the bishops that vvere before them vvhat faith they held and vvhat they either liked or misliked by their vvritinges or sermons it doth not greatly appeare Harding What neede wordes when dedes speake It is euident they kepte that which they receiued of S. Augustine our Apostle and that which was before and afterward beleeued in al Christendome Thei said Masse they adoured Christes body in the blessed Sacrament who doubteth of it They asked their cōfirmation of the bishop of Rome and acknowledged him to be the Apostle S. Peters Successour Therefore they were not your Predecessours in faith and doctrine you may be assured M. Iewel Iewel I trust they held the foundatiō and liued and died in the faith of Christ Harding Now now M. Iewel you haue bewraid M. Ievvel be wraith him selfe what you teach in corners now that lurking heresie is cropen out whereof I spake in my Preface to you before my laste Reiondre touching the Sacrifice of the Masse There I shewed that the Catholike Church must be beleeued in al pointes of Religion and that they were Heretiques who persuaded them selues that it was inough to beleeue certaine Articles of the faith and to let the rest alone not regarding whether this or that be true But what cal you the Foundation of the true faith You knowe that al your Predecessours acknowleged the Popes Supremacie said Masse and beleeued the doctrine of the seuen Sacramentes and taught so Otherwise they had ben noted for Heretikes of others who liued together with them as you are of them who liue with you Seing then you know they did so what can you meane by the foundation but onely the beleefe of the Trinitie and of Christes birth death and Ascension As though it were inough to beleue those thinges what so euer become of the reste Math. 12. Math. 18. Luc. 10. But Christ saith he that is not with me is against me He that heareth not the Church let him be to thee as a heathē and a publicane He that heareth you heareth me he that despiseth you despiseth me and him that hath sent me And S. Paule saith 1. Tim. 3. Iacob 2. Agust epistol 29. ad Hieron The Church is the piller and sure stay of truth And S. Iames he that faileth in one is made giltie of all that is as S. Augustine expoundeth it he that faileth or sinneth against Charitie is giltie of al other faultes Nowe charitie is broken if vnitie be broken and vnitie is broken if the bishops beleeue not euery Article of the faith expressely which the Churche teacheth to be expresly beleeued Therefore either your predecessours were with you or against you There is no midle or meane With you they were not bicause they taught seuen Sacramentes and the Popes supremacie and the Sacrifice of the Masse c. Therefore they were against you And then ye are the first of that faith and doctrine whiche now ye teache You therefore came of your selfe and are without Predecessours Iewel 131. If they had liued in these dayes and seene that you see they vvould not haue ben partakers of yours vvilfulnesse Harding These are the wordes of an Antichrist who seeking to make him selfe equal with Christ doth vse such Phrases by his wicked members as Christe did vse concerning his owne person In deede Christ and only Christ might say such wordes bicause he only shewed such miraculous workes that were hable to haue turned Sidō and Tyrus Ioan. 2. 10. or any other hard harted people But what haue we seene in these dayes M. Iewel which would haue ben hable to haue made al your Predecessours to haue yelded vnto your new faith Haue ye spoken with al tonges as the Apostles did Nay ye haue cōfoūded and dispersed them as it was done at the building vp of the toure of Babylō For whereas in holy matters and specially in the Church Seruice we seemed to be deliuered from the curse of the Diuisiō of tongues bicause many nations of diuers lāguages were vnited and knit together in one Latine or Greeke Church Seruice you go about to set the worlde againe as farre a part by diuers vulgare tongues as euer it was before Christes cōming Haue ye built vs new Churches or schooles or hospitalles or colleges Nay ye haue pulled downe the olde and defaced them to the vttermost of your power Haue ye made peace in the earth and reconciled al dissensions Ye haue rather diuided the subiecte
is that M. Ievvel perfourmeth in this mater of Priestes and Votaries marriages Now commeth me M. Iewel in and allegeth Doctours as thicke as haile olde and newe knowen and vnknowen allowed and disallowed Schoolemen and Summistes vea the very marginal Annotations vpon the Glose of Gratian are haled in to helpe at a pintche and yet al helpeth not Of his owne in manner he saith nothing but thus Origen saith Tertullian saith suche a one saith and suche an other saith and he saith and againe he saith c. Then he laith downe their Latine be it true be it false and putteth a translation vnto it suche as becommeth shifters to vse in a false matter and thus furnisheth out a great booke that the worlde may thinke he is a great Clerke Were al that he allegeth to the purpose then were it somewhat yet were it no great commendation to make bookes onely out of Notebookes already made and gathered to his handes First to declare his order keeping him selfe a luffe of M Iewels order in his treatie of this pointe and his tvvo principles and comming nothing neare the point wherein my Confutation consisteth he bringeth the holy Fathers into suspicion of not dealing vprightly and indifferently herein bearing the Reader in hande they haue swarued from truth either in the auauncing of Virginitie or els in the disgracing of lawful Matrimonie To make proufe of this he allegeth no smal number of sentences out of certaine Fathers in whiche not being thoroughly examined they seeme to speake hardly of Marriage specially of the second Mariage For this point his Doctours be these Tertullian in Exhortatione ad Castitatem the author of the vnperfite worke vpon S. Matthew whom he calleth Chrysostom whereas it is wel knowen not to be his as that whiche conteineth sundry heinous heresies S. Hierome writing against Iouinian Heluidius and to Gerontia Athenagoras in Apologia pro Christianis Nazianzen in dictum Euangelij Cùm perfecisset Iesus c. Origen in Lucam Homilia 17. for which his cotation hath Homil. 19. Nexte he reckeneth vp so many menne as he hath read of that being Married were afterwardes made Bisshops Of whom he saith that they vsed Mariage them selues in their owne personnes which is more then he is liable to proue if by vse of Marriage he meane the carnal copulation M. Iewels tvvo Principles These two that is to say the Fathers disgracing of Matrimonie and their hauing of wiues them selues he calleth by the name of his two Principles whiche being laid he maketh his stoute vaunte that he is the better hable to consider the substance of my reasons for so he saith and there at length he addresseth him selfe to shape an Answere to the parte of my Confutation aboue sette out Now to say somewhat to his Principles before I come to his Answer were it true that certaine Fathers speaking of Matrimonie vsed immoderate and extraordinarie speaches for so he termeth them Againe that many of them had ben married before they came to be Bishops what perteineth that to the defence of the marriage of Votaries and Priestes whiche was the point presently treated of What wil he make this fonde and childish Argument Certaine Fathers spake ouer vehemētly concerning Matrimonie Item some of them were called to the dignitie of Bishops from the state of married menne Ergo Priestes Monkes Friers and Nonnes who haue vowed Chastitie may lawfully marrie wiues and take husbandes Truly either this is his reason or els hitherto he hath no reason at al. And of what smal substance this reason is the veriest Cobblers of al their Ministers if they can reade any English besides their communion booke may easily perceiue Touching the Fathers speaches in reproufe of Matrimonie one answer M. Iewel Ansvver to M. Ievvels doctours in manner may serue to refute al that you would inferre of their sayinges Onely I excepte Tertullian who being fallen into the fowle Heresie of Montanus in his booke intituled Exhortatio ad castitatem wrote otherwise of Marriage specially in that he condemned second marriage then the Catholique Church holdeth or the trueth beareth And S. Hierome witnesseth as Beatus Rhenanus noteth that booke to haue ben written against the Churche Now we thinke not our selues bounde to defende what so euer they say whom the Churche condemneth for Heretiques As for Origen likewise you knowe of how litle credite he is in regard of sundry great errours albeit touching the case of the second and third Mariage The Fathers cal immoderate luste an euil thing for vvhiche they be thought of some vnlearned to reproue marriage De peccato originali contra Pelag. Coelestiū lib. 2. c. 37 Lib 1. de Nuptiu et Concupiscent c. 22 speaking where of you allege him he may better be defended then Tertullian may As concerning the other Fathers by you alleged the thing for which they seeme sometimes to speake of Matrimonie not fauorably is the immoderate concupiscence or luste now after sinne by our first parentes committed which is of the holy Fathers reported to be malum asmuch to say an euil thing and to procede not of God but of sinne without which euil thing the thing that is good in Matrimonie that is to say generation can not be perfourmed This besides other Fathers S. Augustine calleth oftentimes malum an euil thing as carnalis concupiscentiae malum the euil of fleshly luste and malum libidinis the euil thing of carnal pleasure c. He saith that natural shamefastnesse sheweth it so to be by whiche it commeth to passe that although married personnes glorie in Children yet when they attend vpon the worke of begeting Children they choose them selues secrete places and wil al witnesses to be out of their waie thereby confessing the shamefastnesse it selfe of Nature And this muche our first Parentes confessed after they had sinned Gen. 3. by that they were ashamed and coouered their shamely partes with Figge tree leaues as the Scripture plainely declareth Neither proceedeth this euil thing of Marriage but of sinne August in Psal 70. and it is the paine of sinne In married personnes it is euil but no sinne malum poenae not malum culpae as the Scholastical Diuines cal it And this is the meaning of that saying of the authour that wrote the vnperfite worke vppon S. Matthew Opere imperfecto in Matth. Hom. 1. sub finem whome you wil needes to be S. Chrysostome The saying is this Haec ipsa Coniunctio Maritalis malum est ante Deum Non dico Peccatum sed malum This very wedlocke Coniunction it selfe is an euil thing before God I saie not it is Sinne but I saie it is an euil thing In translating whiche woordes you doo very falsly demeane your selfe and beguyle your vnlearned Reader For in that place the authour meaneth not by Coniunctio Matrialis the Copulation of Matrimonie as you translate it as though he said VVhat is that vvhich is of the
onely in the Canonical Scriptures of the olde and new Testament mannes harte can haue setled reste Against this I bring the example of Abel Noe Abraham Isaac and Iacob and of those holy menne that liued before the time of Ezdras when the Scriptures were loste and here I demaund whether their hartes neuer founde setled reste For if reste be founde onely in the Scriptures how could they haue reste when no booke nor parte of the Scriptures was written If it be true as the coÌ„trarie can not be proued that Moyses was the first that euer wrote any parte of the Scriptures shal we iudge that al the holy Patriarches that were before that time had no setled reste in their hartes CoÌ„fut fol. 82. b. If this be true then say I had good Abel no better reste in his harte then wicked restlesse Cain As I said in my Confutation so for ought that M. Iewel is hable to bring in his Defence I saie here againe what foolish and absurde Doctrine is this Now how dooth M. Iewel defende this Doctrine of his Apologie What is his answere I wish no more but that it be read and coÌ„ferred with my CoÌ„futation here to write out al againe it were too long He slincketh awaie from his own wordes and by change of wordes maketh of it a new question M. Harding saith he saith further If quietnes of coÌ„science come of the word of God only then had Abel no more quietnes of coÌ„science then wicked rest lesse Cain You belie M. Harding as your custome is he saith not so Let the booke be trial betwen vs bothe The question is not whether mannes harte findeth his setled reste only in Goddes worde the quietnesse of the conscience was not spoken of but whether that reste you spake of in the Apologie be found only in the Scriptures In your Apologie ye said yea in my Confutation I saie nay And now in your Defence your selfe also saie Nay Galat. 2. and so ye destroie what ye builded before and therby proue your selfe a preuaricatour asmuch to say a false hartlot For in that now ye coÌ„ueigh the matter from the Canonical Scriptures of the old and new TestameÌ„t vnto Gods word what is this but a secrete recantatioÌ„ of your former false tale If your said former tale were true and might be mainteined why do you so shifte your handes of it are you a shamed to be accoumpted a Recantour and yet recante in deede Who seeth not great diuersitie betwen Gods word and the written Scriptures These be more special that is more general By skipping from the writteÌ„ Scriptures to Gods worde you thought to set your selfe at hâ—â—re libertie And yet hauing taken your libertie as it were by breaking loose out of your chaine neuer so much as you seme to geue ouer your former saying and to recant so you proue not your later saying You allege S. Chrysostome saying In Gen. Ho. 2. Heb. 1. in Iob. 27. that God from the beginning spake 〈…〉 mâ—n by him selfe S. Paule that God in olde times spake mâ—ny waies and in sundrie sortes vnto the Fathers S. Hierome that the holy Scriptures be euerlasting though the wâ—â—ld shal haue an ende and that the thing which is promised by the holy Scriptures shal last for euer though the paper parchement and leaues of bookes shal be abolished Againe you allege S. Chrysostome saying 2. Cor. hom 18. that S. Paule calleth Preaching not written the Gospel But to what purpose al this How proueth this either that you auouched in your Apologie touching the setled rest of mannes harte to be founde only in the Canonical Scriptures of the old and new testament or which now you teache hauing reuoked your former doctrine that it is founde onely in Goddes worde Verely by ought that you haue said yet either in your Apologie or in your Defence you haue neither shewed where mannes harte shal finde the reste you spake of nor where we shal finde you so like a hunted foxe you starte from one thing to an other as it were from bushe to bushe from hole to hole So must they doo who seruing the Maister that you serue take vpon them to impugne the Catholique Doctrine and to defende Vntruthe Iewel Ibidem God him selfe in his ovvne person and presently spake vnto Abel c. Harding That would I confesse But he spake not to him by paper and incke And yet we are not now in worse case then the old fathers were And the word of God in their hartes whereof they could not doubte was euer much more cleere and plaine then that which is in our bookes whereof some men doubt many times Therefore we also in Christes Church haue as wel Gods word in our hartes as in our bookes whence also to wit out of our hartes we may resolue the doubtes which arise vpoÌ„ our bookes But let vs see this matter ripte vp more deeply Iewel Pag. 194. VVe speake not so precisely and nicely of Gods vvord vvritten in paper for so it is a corruptible creature and shal perish Harding Why then bind you vs in al cases to the written word and wil haue nothing to be beleued or done that is not written Iewel Pag. 195. Chrysostom saith Preaching not writteÌ„ Paul calleth the Gospel Homil. 18. in 2. Cor. Harding But we only haue preaching not written Preaching not vvritten for you wil haue nothing preached which is not also written Therefore we only haue the whole Gospel and you haue but one peece thereof Iewel Pag. 195. S. Antonie the Eremite vvas notably learned Aug. de Doctrinae Christ li. 1. in prologo and perfite in the scriptures Harding But without knowledge of letters as with S. Augustine your selfe must confesse This proueth that by the Scriptures the sense and meaning is vnderstanded and not the bare letter Now the meaning of the Scriptures not only tolerateth but conuinceth the vnbloudy Sacrifice of Christes body Transubstantiation praiers to the Saintes and praiers for the dead as diuers learned men haue declared at large Iewel The force and substance bothe of prayer and of meditation dependeth of reading Aug. de scalis paradisi .c. 11 Harding Not only of reading For then vnlearned persons should neither praie nor meditate nor haue Gods word Marke stil we denie not the written word but we say besides it there are vnwritten Verities Basil de Spiritu Sancto cap. 27. which thing you impudently denie Iewel Pag. 195. S. Basil reckeneth Traditions to be equal vvith the vvorde of God but that he vvrote those vvordes rather of zeale then of iudgement it 〈…〉 appeare bicause the traditions he nameth are forgotten euen in the Churche of Rome as not to kneele in the Churche vpon the sonnedaie Harding If bicause some Traditions be altered TraditioÌ„s or abolished they were not Gods word then the precepte of absteining from strangled meates Actor 15. is not Gods word bicause it is now abolished
be sure to liue for ouer the whiche no euil man can eate For if it could so be that he who continueth euil stil should eate the worde made fleash whereas it is the woorde and liuing bread it should not haue ben written whosoeuer eateth this bread shal liue for euer Origen fovvly corrupted by M. Ievv These are the true wordes of Origen But M. Iewel hath so mangled them that the sense is cleane altered For in steede of verbuÌ„ caro factum the worde made flesh he hath placed the body of Christ referring it to the Sacrament And whereas in Origen it is edere verbum factum carnem to eate the word made flesh he hath made exchange thereof into edere corpus Domini to eate the body of our Lorde And so whereas Origen meant that euil men can not eate spiritually and effectually the Diuinitie of Christ so as it dwelleth corporally in his flesh M. Iewel hath taught him to say that an euil man can not in the Sacrament eate Christes bodie Iewel Pag. 210. VVe say vvith S. Augustine the Sacrament is not our Lorde In Iohan. Tract 5â— but the bread of our Lord. Harding S. Augustin denieth not the SacrameÌ„t to be our Lord he hath no such wordes Howbeit we our selues would denie it in some sense For some tyme the Sacrament is taken for the forme of bread and wine and that in deede is not our Lord. Iewel 212. M. Harding might accompt not only seuen but also seuenteen sundry Sacramentes Harding I accompt onely seuen in such sense as the Churche properly taketh a Sacrament And how that is I shewed before Iewel pag. 213. Thus vve say it can not be proued that this number is so specially appointed As for the reasons of seuen seales seuen trumpettes seuen starres seuen golden Candelstikes and seuen eyes they are childish Harding We ground not our seuen Sacramentes vppon those similitudes Seuen Sacrametes August de Ciuit. Dei li. 11. c. 30. de doctrina Christiana lib. 2. cap. 16. Albeit if any man applie some of those matters to the seuen Sacramentes it is not childishely done seing S. Augustine confesseth that the Mysteries of numbers be great in the holy scriptures Iewel 213. Vnto euery Sacrament tvvo thinges are necessarie a sensible outvvard Element as in Baptisme VVater in our Lordes Supper Bread and VVine and the vvord of Institution Harding Thus farre we are agreed with you Iewel Matrimonie Order and penaunce haue the vvoorde of God but they haue no outvvard creature or Element Extrems Vnction and Confirmation haue neither vvoorde nor Element Harding To answere you herein M. Iewel I can not doo better Conci Florentin in vnione Armeniorum then to send you to the Councel of Florence and to the bookes wherein the order of our Sacramentes are conteined Where you shal finde that there lacketh neither the woorde of Institution nor conuenient Element It is yenough to vs that both by the woorde of God and by the perpetual doctrine of the Churche we are taught Act. 8. Iacob 5. Luc. 22. Ioan. 20. that these seuen are Sacramentes Confirmation is proued in the Actes of the Apostles Extreme Vnction in the Epistle of S. Iames Order in S. Luke and in S. Iohn Now baptisme and our Lordes supper your selfe graunt of penaunce and Matrimonie I haue said sufficiently already To be short we are in possession of seuen Sacramentes neither can you nor any man now aliue or that euer liued sith the Apostles shewe that euer the Church was without so many Sacramentes Impugne them when you list I doubt not but you shal be answered For that ye haue said hitherto is litle worthe and most thinges are lyes Iewel pag. 213. 214. De SacrameÌ„tâ— Eucharistia The auncient Fathers hauing occasion to intreate of purpose and specially hereof speake only of tvvo Sacramentes and so Bessarion namely saith Harding None of them al hath written purposely of al the Sacramentes of the Church but as occasion serued M. Ievvel belyeth the ancient Fathers touching the number of the SacrameÌ„tes Dionysius De Ecclesiast Hierarch TertulliaÌ„ lib. de resur carnis Cyprian lib. 2. Epist 1. ad StephanuÌ„ Bessarion de SacrameÌ„to Eucharistiae Bessarion belyed by M. Ievvel they now speake of two now of moe Of two they speake the more specially bicause the custome was to geue them both together to those that were of discretion Howbeit Dionysius Areopagita the most auncient of al intreateth of many moe as his booke de Ecclesiastica Hierarchia doth witnesse Tertullian besides Baptisme and the body of Christ nameth together with them Anointing and Signing and Imposition of handes And the Doctours which you bring affirme two but they denie not moe Yea S. Cyprian whom you cite in the first place can not be proued there to meane by both Sacramentes Baptisme and the supper of our Lorde Bessarion saith two were deliuered plainely in the Scriptures but he confesseth moe whiche are deliuered also in the Scriptures though not so plainely as the other two And he expressely nameth Chrismatis Sacramentum the Sacrament of Confirmation or of Bishopping Of the other Sacramentes in general he speaketh twise in the beginning of that Treatie Wherefore there is an impudâ—nt he included in your wordes where you saie that I haue in expresse wordes The onely two Sacraments of the Churche So that nowe we maie couple you with Beza â—â—o teacheth the same doctrine in his Confession and iuâ—â—ly cal you bothe false teachers Iewel 214. Al these thinges not vvithstanding the Tridentine Councel concludeth seuen Sacramentes Harding So it ought and maie easily doo M. Iewel any thing that you haue yet brought notwithstanding You proue in dede that there are two Sacramentes but that there are no moe you haue not brought so much as one apparent authoritie Sauing that of Bessarion who neuerthelesse is vtterly against you For he beleued and taught that there were seuen Sacramentes Bessarion De Sacramento Eucharistiae as by that Treatie it maye wel appeare But what should I do good reader should I now proue that there are seuen Sacramentes Certainely it were easy for me so to doo and to set out a booke of that Argument farre greater then M. Iewels is And that may wel appeare true by that Ruardus Tapper Cardinal Hosius and Petrus a Soto with diuers other learned menne haue done in this behalfe I am sure M. Iewel wil not denie but I were hable to english at the lest that which I should find in their Latin bookes And yet therein standeth his whole shewe For in deede he doth litle els but english that which the Germaines and Geneuians bookes haue The 7. SacrameÌ„tes proued out of S. Augustine Augustiniana CoÌ„fessio The vntruthes and scoffes that he addeth of his owne though they be many in number yet doo they not greatly increase the bulke of his volume Besides al other Catholique bookes there hath one benne set forth
that forbad Theafte hath not permitted Robberie but would the whole to be vnderstanded by the parte what so euer thinge of the neighbours is vnlawfully taken awaye verely likewise we ought to vnderstand that vnder the name of Moechia Aduouterie euery vnlawful carnal acte and vse of those partes not allowed by Goddes lawe is forbidden The effecte of this whole discourse is this S. Augustine confesseth the name of that which we cal Simple Fornication not to be founde expressely in the Table of the ten Commaundementes Neuerthelesse he saith that it is to be vnderstanded in the name of Aduouterie which is there expressed and that so it is forbidden vnder that name as also euery vnlawful acte and vse of those partes that serue to the Generation And al this procedeth of like reason as we ought to iudge that Rapina Robberie is forbidden though in that Table it be not expressely named as also euery vnlawful taking awaye and deteining of an other mannes thinges as being vnderstanded in the name of Theafte in that Commaundement only expressed as oftentimes by reason the whole must be vnderstaÌ„ded in the name of a parte Saepe intel ligitur à parte totum For elles we should thinke it lawful to robbe and commit rauine whereas Theafte onely is by expresse terme forbidden wherein we are controlled by reason it selfe without further aduise of Goddes written word Mow iudge good Reader what rewarde M. Iewel is worthy to haue in a wel ordered common welth for suche abusing of S. Augustines name and auctoritie to the Defence and mainteinance of Simple Fornication Certainely the libertie that through this pleasant Gospel the world is now growen vnto considered it was litle neede to teache such Doctrine in open Bookes at these daies A Comparison of Errours with whiche M. Iewel chargeth me and I on the other side charge him The 16. Chapter BIcause Reader M. Iewel to excuse a few errours with which I charged the Authour of the Apologie chargeth me likewise with errours and ouersightes committed in my Confutation and in my first Reioinder that it maie appeare euidently vnto thee who standeth more charged he or I bothe in respecte of the number and also of the weight of the matter reported in the errours I wil here truly and plainely reherse those hainous errours whiche he laieth to my charge and then also I wil laie forth certaine of his errours as they came to hande Certaine I saie for to laie forth so many as by searche I might easily finde it would require the charges of an other booke These then be the great and weighty matters wherein I seeme to M. Iewel worthy of great blame Iewel in the Viewe of his Vntruthes B iij. b. M. Harding maie remember Confut. 4. 6. a. Confut. 312. b. Confut. 47. a. Reioinder fol. 287. a. Confut. 332. a. that he him selfe in steede of the Prophete Osee hath alleged vs the noble Iosue and that by an other like ouersight he hath alleged the 8. booke of Socrates Scholasticus vvhereâ—s Socrates neuer vvrote but seuen M. Harding him selfe in hiâ— Confutation of the Apologie in steede of the 22. of Luke hath printed the 2. of Luke Likevvise in his Reioindre in steede of these vvordes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be hath printed and sente vs quite the contrarie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 To be shorte M. Harding in this selfe same booke in steede of these vvordes lulled a sleepe by errour hath printed lulled a sheepe Harding Of al these great and dangerous errours I acknowledge but one to be mine which is that by ouersighte I named Iosue in steede of Osee And ô that there were no greater sinne in me for which I ought to crie God Mercie And yet that it is an errour and a faulte too I confesse would God you M. Iewel woulde as readily confesse yours As for the reste you muste quarrel with the Printers seruauntes with whom I am offended not onely for these faultes but also for many mo no lesse then you Were they diligent and true workemenne I perceiue touching this case you should haue litle to say Now let the indifferent Reader compare these my errours or rather this my one errour whiche in so many places you haue obiected vnto me and whiche onely after so long searche you haue founde with a fewe of yours noted out of your late booke intituled The Defence of the Apologie Sure I am for your excuse you can not laie the faulte vpon your Printer nor by any other meanes iustifie them Thus among other infinite Vntruthes you say Iewel Pag. 634. Ye maie remember that tvvo of the principal pillers of yuor Chapter at Trent Petrus a Soto and Catharinus dissented euen there openly and shamefully and that in great pointes of Religion and vvrote the one mightily against the other the one charging the other vvith errour and heresie and could neuer be reconciled Harding Here I must tel you M. Iewel that you affirme more then you are hable to abide by By this also as by other infinite places ye geue your Reader to vnderstande what a sure carde you are to trust vnto Catharinus and Petrus a Soto be lied by M. Ievvel For Catharinus and Petrus a Soto were neuer together at the Councel of Trent as any doers there muche lesse as principal pillers Yea Catharinus was dead ten yeres before Petrus a Soto came to the Councel as one to haue any doing there For Catharinus died Anno 1552. and Petrus a Soto came to the Councel Anno 1562. Sixtus Senensis in Bibliotheca sancta lib. 4. Wherefore I maruel that you are not ashamed so precisely to affirme an open and shameful vntruth For if they were not at the Councel together how could they dissent there openly and shamefully as you terme it Hereunto you adde an other great Vntruth that they wrote mightely the one against the other For I am wel assured you can not proue that euer they wrote the one against the other at al. Albeit I wil not saie but that Petrus a Soto peraduenture doth disallowe some certaine erroneous opinion of the others in some parte of his workes That you saie they could neuer be reconcilied is most false in your meaning Howbeit in a contrary sense it maie be truely said For Reconciliation presupposeth a falling out But where there was neuer falling out as betwen them there was not as farre as it can appeare by their writinges there could not be any Reconciliation To like effecte and with as litle truthe you speake of them bothe Pagin 350. In deede some such thing there was betwen Dominicus a Soto and Catharinus Albeit their Dissension was not so outragious as you would haue it seeme I merueile that you should so much and so often after one sorte be ouerseen especially if you haue read their bookes as you pretend or elles if you haue read Illyricus de Sectis with stuffe out of whose dragges you haue somewhat enlarged your
making great bookes Write fewer wordes more truth Truste not euery pelting booke that seemeth toothsom vnto you yea write nothing but truth and ye shal ease vs of much paynes Now a mannes life wil not serue him to discouer the multitude of your Lies to such impudencie ye are growen What man is there hauing any sparke of shamefastnesse that would referre vs so often and so confidently to a booke by a title which it neuer had ne neuer was any such written And therefore vntil you bring forth your authour hereof you must be content to beare al the blame of a sclaunderous and impudent Lier It had ben an easie matter for you to haue vowed Tritemius de Scriptoribus Ecclesiasticis Conradus Gesnerus Bibliotheca or his Epitome or elles Cusanus workes printed at Basile anno 1565. which was out almost two yeres before your Defence was published where you should haue founde that he neuer wrote booke of any suche title What is to be thought hereof but that either you haue maliciously inuented this Lie of your selfe to deface the authour withal or elles that you haue vnwisely receiued it of some other who is not hable to abide by it If of your selfe then maius peccatum habes if of any other then bring him forth a Goddes name to discharge your selfe of malice albeit not of folie I do ghesse that you wil peraduenture bring forth a greate Stoareman of yours who furnisheth you with suche gaie stuffe and maketh you a greate Truant a felowe meete for the purpose that wil neuer faile suche a false merchant at a neede I take him to be that sures bee of yours Matthias Flacius Illyricus For you declare your selfe that you beside other bookes of his haue benne busie with his Norma Concilij Tridentini And there I finde written In altera parte clauis Scripturae pa. 541. Nicolai Cusani post quam factus est Cardinalis sententia de auctoritate Ecclesiae Concilij supra contra Scriptutam But yet this wil not discharge you of malice For he saith not that he entituled his booke so as you doo affirme but doth pretende to recite Cusanes minde of that matter as this worde Sententia declareth Now one maie gather an other mannes minde concerning any matter out of his writinges though he neuer made any worke of that title Neither doth Illyricus specifie in that place the worke out of the which he hath drawen that whiche he there allegeth and whiche you receiued of him againe at the seconde hande So that I can not perceiue but that the blame bothe of folie and of malice must reste stil vpon your owne persone For I suppose you wil not haue your selfe taken for so ignorant as to thinke Sententia is latine for a booke or if you wil then why doo you so bragge as it were and boast of your great reading and learning Moreouer you haue not onely geuen vs a false title of your owne imagination to Cusanus writinge but also of an Epistle you haue made a Booke That your good intente and plaine dealing herein maye be more euident I wil recite the title of thal Epistle as it is to be founde amonge his workes printed at Basile Anno 1565. Pagin 851. 852. Epistola 7. Nicolai de Cusa Cardinalis ad Clerum Literatos Bohemiae and thereunto in the toppe of the leafe is added De amplectenda vnitate Ecclesiae Let bothe these Titles be conferred and your malicious intent in so wilfully deprauing the authours wordes to bring him out of credite must most manifestly appeare Wel perchaunce you wil saye though the title be altered yet his wordes out of that same Epistle be truely recited wherein consisteth the chiefe effecte and principal purpose If you so saye you wil be proued no lesse a Lier and false reporter herein then you haue benne in the reste And for example hereof I wil bringe euen the very firste place that you haue alleged out of him You tel vs page 55. that thus he saith Sequuntur Scripturae Ecclesiam non è conuerso Cusanus fovvly falsified by M. Ievvel The Scriptures of God followe the Churche but contrariwise the Churche followeth not the Scriptures You haue here clipped the Authours sentence and quite altered the sense His wordes are these Ecclesia igitur sicut recipit Scripturam ita interpretatur Pag. 858 Sequuntur Scriptura Ecclesiam quae prior est propter quam Scripturae non è conuerso The Churche as it receiueth the Scripture so doth it expounde the same The Scriptures therefore do follow the Churche which is the former and for the which the Scripture is ordeiined and not contrariwise What oddes is betwixt this sentence of Cusanus and that whiche you haue fathered vpon him any meane witted man maie ealsily perceiue For Cusanus wordes in their right forme doo bothe stande wel and haue a good meaning But your false changing of them causeth them to importe an intollerable Derogation to the Scriptures without any colour of truth For as it is most true that the Church was before the Scriptures that is to saie the written worde of God and that the Scriptures were ordeined and appointed for the Churche but not contrariwise the Churche for the Scriptures so is it very false that the Scriptures doo followe the Church and the Church not the Scriptures For why hath the Church receiued the Scriptures but to follow them and put them in execution both in our inward beleefe and in our outward actions Doo you not blush M. Iewel thus wilfully to peruerte that with your false iuggling and conueying awaie of those wordes quae prior est propter quam Scripturae whiche before had a right good sense You thought by like you should neuer heare thereof againe nor be called to any reckening or elles you would haue had more regarde ro your good name and honestie You can pretende no tollerable excuse as that you had not Cusanus workes at hande For euen Illyricus vpon whose credite you haue taken vp al that you haue out of this epistle doth not otherwise reporte the same Pag. 544. in 2. parte Clauis Script then they are to be founde in the authour But you thought you would passe him an ase in falsehood although he be his craftes master therein How fowly you haue ouershote your selfe in falsifying sentences and misreporting authour for authour and booke for booke that which hath hitherto ben declared maie be sufficient instruction to any man that is willing and desirous to vnderstande the truthe and not content to be lead into wilful blindnes and errour Howbeit to make the matter a litle more sensible and plainer and also to geue you occasion the better to know your folie and not to exalte your selfe ouermuch with pride vaine glorie and presumption of I can not tel what extraordinarie knowledge as you seeme to doo I wil set before your eyes such a glasse of your grosse
ouersight ignorance and blindnes to looke in as you may and peraduenture wil be ashamed thereof if you be not altogether past shame already Many times either to hide your ignorance or to weary the searcher or to couer your falsehood you bring vs in such general quotations without number of Booke or Chapter as a man shal be litle the nearer For examples whereof Pag. 15. 158. 265. August Pag. 51 August de Ciuitate Dei Pag. 50. 267. Cyprianus Pag. 37. Eusebius Pag. 29. Theodorit in Histor Ecclesiast Pa. 11. Theodorit de curand Graec. affect Pag. 482. 532. Baldus pa. 486. Eckius Pag. 564. Hieronymus 629. Fortalitium fidei Itē 401. 313. Antoninus 498. Liriensis Episcopus 447. Eusebius Emissenus Pag. 13. You referre vs to a Councel of Carthage as you remember you can not tel whiche In al these and such like places a man hath occasion iustly to suspect your couert dealing that either the place maketh nothing for your purpose if it were considered or that there be no such wordes there at al or at the least that you doo not speake of certain knowledge but by some ghesse or vpon an other mannes reporte But where you are so bold as to quote vnto vs the Chapters there it were to be supposed that you shoulde speake ex speciali scientia of your precise knowledge and so muche the more as you ofte inculcate one place And yet for al that it is to be proued that euen in suche places you doo but set a great looke on the matter to outface your readers and gainesaiers withal Example most notable hereof is to be taken of your quotations of one Heruaeus de Potestate Papae a greate and familiar Doctour with you About 37. times and euery where sauing in two places that is to wit Pag. 331. 608. you haue quoted vnto vs precisely the Chapter and yet he hath not diuided his booke into any Chapters at al. Therefore by like you had a good sight that could so often see so many and distincte Chapters where there be none Yea whiche is more that you could recite so many sentences out of him and some of them not without lothsomnesse oftentimes repeated and yet neuer a one of them to be founde in such forme of wordes in al the booke This maie seme a very strange matter vnto them who tooke you to be the chiefe Doctour and the most precious Iewel of al our Ministers of this English Congregation And therefore they wil surmise that I speake this in a dreame of you But that they maie knowe I speake not of reporte but by trial and experience I wil here set out before the Readers eyes the Pages where Heruaeus is quoted in the margent of your booke that if he can come by the booke whiche is in deede of an olde printe he maie by conference proue whether I haue said herein otherwise then truthe Al these here following are not in Heruaeus but in one Iohannes de Parisijs Pagina 119. Cap. 13. 162. 12. 399. 13. 400. 12. 13. 401. 19. 405. 13. 13. 528. 16. 532. 16. 533. 20. 536. 11. 12. 13. it should be 14. Pagina 537. Cap. 19. 538. 19. 544. 12. it should be 13. 607. 14. 615. 18. 651. 18. 652. 8. 653. 18. 660. 18. 692. 17. 694. 13. 696. 18. 15. Now is neuer a one of al these places in Heruaeus but in Ioannes de Parisiis Whom M. Iewel maketh a distinct Authour from the other and yet doth he recite out of the selfe same booke of his diuers sentences and referreth them vnto him as it maie appeare Pagina 53. Cap. 3. 102. 3. 467. 3. 535. 5. 649. 5. 652. 5. A Note of certaine places of the texte of my Confutation leafte out by M. Iewel in his Defence GOod Reader I haue here set before thee a briefe Note or Table of certaine places of purpose and guilefully leafte out by M. Iewel in his recital of the texte of my Confutation printed in the booke of his Defence whiche places in making this Detection I had occasion to expresse By the same thou maist see and as in a fewe haue a taste for to note al it woulde amounte to a iuste volume how he deceiueth thee in the reste bearing the countenance of one that hath answered the substance of the whole Confutation For so much he telleth thee him selfe with these wordes To ansvver M. Hardinge to euery parcel of his Booke being so long it vvould be tedious M. Ievvel in the beginning of his De fence Pag. 2. VVherefore leauing many his impertinent speaches and vnnecessarie and vvaste vvordes I vvil touche onely so muche thereof as shal beare some shevve of substance and maie any vvaie seeme vvorthy to be ansvvered How wel and truely M. Iewel hath kepte this promise and how at the first greeting and entrie of his Booke he begileth thee by these fewe places here noted and in this Detection at large set forth thou shalt see and perceiue For trial therefore of his truthe haue recourse vnto the leaues of this Booke here quoted and looke what places of the Texte of my Confutation there recited be comprehended within two starres as I doo also there in the Margent warne thee assure thy selfe that al those and an infinite number of suche other places are by M. Iewel in this his Defence quite leafte out as if no such thing had ben written And then whether such places by him so leafte out be but impertinent speaches and vnnecessarie and waste wordes or right worthy to be answered I leaue it to thine owne indifferent iudgement to discerne Verely if it maie be lawful thus to deale in the handling of Controuersies it shal not seeme harde to confute the workes of any write◠be they neuer so learned and substancial But nowe to the Note wherein I direct thee to the Leaues and Pages of this my Detection in such order as by occasion such his false sleightes haue bene by me detected The first place fol. 3. b. line 27. vntil fol. 4. a. line 9. The ij fol. 21. b. line 31. vntil fol. 22. a. line 3. The iij. fol. 43. b. line 7. The iiij fol. 45. a line 6. The v. fol. 121. b. line 28. The vj. fol. 129. a. line 16. The vij fol. 129. b. line 8. The viij fol. 193. a. line 22. The ix fol. 193. b. line 4. The x. Ibidem line last The xj fol. 194. a. line 29. The xij fol. eodem b. line 10. The xiij and xiiij fol. 195. a line 7. and line 28. The xv fol. eodem b. line 17. The xvj fol. 196. a. line 11. The xvij fol. eodem b. line 13. The xviij fol. 197. a. line 15. The xix fol. eodem b. line 2. The xx fol. 198. a. line 2. The xxj fol. 230. a. line 24. The xxij fol. 278. b. line 4. The xxiij fol. eodē line 24. The xxiiij fol. 279. a. line 18. The xxv fol. 279. b. line 23. The xxvj fol. 280.
his quotations to be in my said two Bookes whiche are not there in deede altogether in that order and meaning as he vntruly hath alleged them I proue his dealing herein partely to be agreable to his other false demeanour and partely that good and iust causes there were why I should writing against him vse suche order of language Furthermore bicause he woulde the great and manifolde Vntruthes with whiche I charged him to seeme no Vntruthes at al but that al is the Gospel what so euer commeth from his Mouthe and whereas for proufe thereof he hath set forth a View of his Vntruthes the least of al that he could espie by me noted against him and pretendeth to iustifie the same his least Vntruthes in the said View I haue made an answere to that View of Vntruthes and there doo shewe manifestly specially in the chiefe pointes where errour is most perilous that he was truely and iustly charged with those Vntruthes and that for ought he hath yet said in Defence of them he remaineth stil chargeable with the same as before This muche I haue perfourmed in the first Booke After this in foure bookes folowing I detecte his Errours Lies Cauilles shiftes Sclaunders and sundrie vntrue matters founde in the firste and seconde parte of his Defence And in respecte thereof I cal the Treatie A Detection of sundrie foule errours lies sclaunders c. At length hauing tried by very certaine experience and exacte view of the whole Booke that there was no ende of lying what place so euer in reading my eie lighted vppon I thought it most profitable and most agreable with my profession to let passe thinges of smal importance the handeling of whiche serued him specially to scoffe to vtter vile matter againste the Churche and to fil vp his Booke in tended at the beginning to be made greate and to treate of the Articles of Doctrine in defence of the Truthe and to confute what he hath brought to the contrarie Among whiche Articles of doctrine of some I haue treated briefly as being alreadie treated of in my Confutation and otherwheres of some at good length and with more diligence as of Succession and of the vnlawful Marriages of Priestes and al other Votaries wherein he is very large and copious of Doctours sayinges of al sortes but vtterly destitute of any one saying that maketh cleerely for his parte In the ende I doo most euidently disproue and refel what he was hable to bring for Defence of two pointes which he is not ashamed to affirme seming to me the one very false the other very sclaunderous The first is as he auoucheth them that matters of faith and Ecclesiastical causes are to be iudged by the Ciuile Magistrate The other is that the Papistes haue taught that simple Fornication is no sinne How weake proufes he bringeth for the one and for the other and yet how shamelesly he goeth about to prooue them by conference of bothe our Treaties it shal appeare Withal there I haue added a Comparison of Errours in mistaking names of menne bookes Chapters c. with whiche M. Iewel chargeth me and I him Matters let passe vvith treating vvhereof the Defence is grovven to a Huge Volume Thus haue I declared in fewe the Summe as it were and Order of this Treatie As for sundrie other matters as of forged Scriptures of the doctrine of Deuilles so he calleth the forbidding of Priestes Monkes Friers and Nunnes to marrie of the fruites of single life whereof he laith out great stoare of filthy sayinges of S. Iames Epistle whether it be Canonical Scripture of sundrie ancient Traditions now growen out of vse of the Fourmes and Accidentes whereat he scoffeth like a Vice plaier of the number of the Sacraments of the Churche which we defende to be seuen he affirmeth to be but two or els so many as the thinges be vnto which the name of Sacrament is by any Writer applied which are very many of the Faith of Infantes of their new found Imaginatiue Faith or rather phantastical Imaginatiō that eateth the bodie and drinketh the bloud of Christ of the Popes Dispensations of dissensions among the Fathers of Nominales and Reales of Thomistes and Scotistes of diuersitie of religious persons Apparel wherein he saith they put great holinesse of the variance betwen the Lutherās and the Zuinglians of the fable of Dame Iohane the woman Pope of the Marble Image lying in the high way at Rome of the stoole of easement of Porphyrie stoane at Lateran of Athenes and Rome whether they were Vniuersities in the time this Dame Iohane is feyned to haue liued in of the vicious life of Petrus Aloisius Duke of Parma and Placentia of Iohn Diazius death of the slaughter of the Boures of Germanie that tooke weapons against the nobilitie there prouoked by the preaching of Luther and his scholers of Constantines Donation of Poison ministred in the Sacrament as he reporteth feined fables for stories of great soothe of the abomination of desolation of the state of the Church of Rome of Antichrist of the mistaking of Cardinal Hosius of their pretensed burning of the Scriptures of S. Augustine the Apostle of the English Nation that he was a wicked man of Priestes keeping of Concubines of Images of Latine Praiers and Churche Seruice of Comparison of learning betwene the Catholiques and the Protestantes of Rome whether it be Babylon of summoning of Councelles of the Stewes in Rome whereof gladly he vttereth muche talke of kissing the Popes foote of the Popes hurling of Franciscus Daldulus fast tied in chaines vnder his table there to gnaw boanes with his Dogges of the Popes Bridle and Stirop to be holden by Princes of Pope Hildebrandes surmised wicked deedes as they fable of the Popes treadding on the Emperours necke of the Pope whether he be euer holy of the Popes Exactions of the Cheast in the Popes bosom whether the Pope be God of the Popes power feined to be ouer Angels whether the Pope can commit Simonie whether the Pope be King of Kinges whether the Pope be aboue general Councels whether the Pope maie erre or no whether the Pope be a Kinge Of these and of a great many moe suche matters whereof some be lothesom some be fabulous vaine and friuolous some be false sclaunderous and spiteful some blasphemous some alreadie sufficiently treated of briefly al tending vnto the contempt of the Catholique Religion as M. Iewel handleth them in which matters he hath vttered the stoare of his learning Of these I saie I haue said nothing much disaduantaging my selfe thereby and the common cause which I defend for so much as in the making vp of his great Booke with heaping together these ministerly matters he hath vttered as he doth euery where els good stoare of most euident and grosse Lies of which his owne frendes and best fauourers in case thei were detected would be ashamed These forenamed be the thinges which I haue briefly handled and these other and
certaine mo the like be those which I haue let passe as being partely vnnecessarie and vnprofitable partely vnmeete good houres to be bestowed about them By the handeling of these the weightier pointes it wil sufficiently appeare to al menne with what stuffe he filleth his great Bookes what smal credite he deserueth how litle pith there is to be found in his multitude of wordes how litle there is that serueth aptly to the purpose among the great heapes of testimonies that he laieth together Surely his Defence being wel examined by any man that hath skil and can iudge of these points it must needes be thought that when he saw he had not the plaine truth of his side yet with multitude of allegations he would make a shew of learning to the ignorant and trouble the answerer with confusion Euen so many Barbarous Princes as we reade in stories when they lacked a conuenient number of good and tried Souldiers haue gonne about to fraie their enemies with multitude of people who haue learned by their great ouerthrowes that oftentimes victorie is not obteined by multitude of menne In deede the Truth needeth not so many sayinges piked out of Schoolemenne of Summistes of Gloses vpon Gratian and other partes of the Canon Lawe and out of so many Canonistes of al sortes For trial of a mater to be prooued true in questions touching our beleefe one saying of the Scripture is sufficient if the expresse Scripture faile vs twoo or three Testimonies of the Ancient Fathers not being contrarie to the reste maie suffice But suche a confuse and vnorderly number of sayinges specially of suche as be not of great estimation as this man commonly allegeth of the same not one making cleerely for this purpose in moste matters what doth it els but breede a suspicion among the wise that the matter is not true for proufe whereof they be alleged But by this meane he thought to winne credit at least with the people For the people that can not iudge of these matters thinketh him best learned that hath most woordes It is knowen that when they beholde two reasoning together of any thing whereof they haue no skil commonly they commend the mainteiner of the worse cause in case he be fuller of wordes be they neuer so litle to the purpose and say in his praise that he answered the other partie to euery Quare M. Iewel vnderstanding this and making his most accompte of the people and of them that be vnlearned to whom he leaneth and by multitude of whom he and they of his side mind to stand for touching the learned they see they can winne none bestoweth great paines and charges to set out great bookes that at least in the opinion of the vnlearned and of them that haue not leisure to examine the points how substantially they are treated he maie seeme to haue done iolily and to haue acquited him selfe like a great Clerke In very deede if a man haue care howe muche he maie saie rather then how truly and feare not to vtter vntruthes he hath this aduantage ouer his aduersarie defending the truth with a conscience not to swarue from the censure of the Church that he may alwaies finde abundance of matter to vtter For as it hath of olde ben said Mendacium est multiplex veritas simplex Lying is manifolde Truth is simple Lying hath many plaites and foldinges Truth is without plaite or wrinckle Therefore it is no marueile if the Treaties of the one be narrowe and shorte of the other wide and long As for me if I prooue M. Iewel an vntrue man in so many pointes as I haue treated of I haue donne that whereby his credite must be broken His credite being broken what remaineth but that in this kinde of trade he go for a Banckroute If he be a Banckrout worthily is he to be begiled that trusteth him Some wil say perhaps it is not likely I should with so smal a booke discredit him that hath written so much But it maie please this man to remember that to saie the truth it is not M. Iewel that hath written muche He hath taken muche out of other mens bookes of his owne he hath in maÌ„ner nothing certainely very litle So that peruse his Booke who wil he shal finde that he is but a seely Translatour of other mens wordes a heaper together of al Writers sayings and that most commonly to more ostentation of tale then to the making vp of good weight So that if thinges be brought to an exact trial he shal be found no disputer no reasoner no discourser no Writer but only a gatherer together of other mennes Sentences How be it it is not the hugenesse of a booke that argueth the sufficiencie of proufes Truth is content to be set foorth with few wordes Neither yet doo I reproue him for that he allegeth what he findeth in other Writers For therby we bring credite to doubteful matters But for that alleging so much he allegeth so litle to the purpose yea in manner nothing and boldly wil I auouche it vtterly nothing for due proufe of any his new and strange doctrines being contrarie to that of ancient time hath benne beleeued in the Catholique Churche This shal seeme more probable if it be confirmed by some plaine and true examples Lette vs then examine M. Iewelles common demeanour in an example or twoo To discusse many the breuitie of a Preface wil not permitte O that he were in place to choose the example him selfe out of his whole Booke to his best aduantage that so it might euidently appeare with what weake tooles he fighteth against the truth ExaÌ„ples vvhereby it is shewed hovve vvith void and impertineÌ„t stuffe M. Ievvel filleth his great Booke Defence Pag. 163. Heb. 13. Confut. 73 b. Marke hovv M. Ievv alvvaies keepeth him selfe from coÌ„ming vnto the point in controuersie Whereas in the Apologie much is said in the commeÌ„dation of Matrimonie which no Catholique man euer discommended as that it is Holy and honorable in al sortes and states of personnes in the Apostles in the Ministers of the Church and in Bisshops and that it is an honest and lawful thing as S. Chrysostom saith for a man liuing in Matrimonie to take vpon him therewith the dignitie of a Bisshop to this I saie in my Confutation that albeit Matrimonie be holy and honorable in al and an vndefiled â—eâ— as S. Paule saith yet that it is not lawful for such personnes to marrie who haue deliberately vowed Chastitie or haue taken holy Orders This there I prooue by good and sufficient authoritie as it maie be seene in my said Confutation Now what is M. Iewels part here to proue for maintenaÌ„ce of his doctrine but that a man notwithstaÌ„ding his Vow or receiuing of holy Orders maie lawfully marrie This is the very point of the controuersie and thereto onely should he haue directed his talke If he go about any thing els it is beside the purpose But consider
Reader how he keepeth him selfe a luffe of from the point with what stuffe he filleth certaine leaues of his Booke how he starreth from Doctour to Doctour how he confoundeth him selfe and the Reader and though he bring neuer so much out of other Writers yet commeth not at al to the point directly First Pag. 165. he laboureth to discredite the holy Ancient Fathers as menne that haue not dealte indifferently herein but haue gonne to farre either in the auancing of Virginitie or in the disgracing of lawful Matrimonie Before he entreth his Allegations whereof that whole Treatie standeth he putteth foorth twoo sayinges the one of Origen the other of S. Hierome in reproufe of them that condemned Matrimonie And yet euen there immediatly after he allegeth them both for condemners of Matrimonie Then he laith foorth the stoare of his Allegations whereby he would haue it appeare Tertulliā alleged by M. Ievvel against the Churche in that for vvhiche he is condēned of the Churche that certaine Ancient Writers had an euil opinion of Matrimonie There he allegeth two sayinges of Tertullian in exhortatione ad castitatem whiche Booke he wrote against the Churche as S. Hierome saith and therefore it is condemned of the Churche for whiche cause he should not haue alleged him then twoo sayinges out of the Authour of the imperfite worke vppon S. Matthew vnder the name of S. Chrysostome which also is a worke ful of heresies Item certaine sayinges out of S. Hierome writing against Iouinian and Heluidius Againe sayinges out of Athenagoras S. Hierome Gregorie Nazianzen and Origen by whiche he beareth the Reader in hande they haue condemned the seconde Marriages of Widowers and Widowes After this he reckeneth vp so manie Priestes Pag. 166. and Bishops as he hath read of to haue benne married menne who in deede were married before they receiued holy Orders and not otherwise There Palea Palea that is to say the Chaffe that is set out in Gratian concerning Priestes and Bishops that were many Popes Fathers a very fonde fabulous tale is admitted to the place of a great Doctor yet by him much falsified Pag. 167. and altered from that he found in Gratians booke There also beside the report of Aeneas Syluius whiche him selfe recanted and of Polydore Vergil a man of our time and in these matters of smal credite he sticketh not to praie helpe of one Fabian a late seely Chronicler of London and with his woorshipful testimonie forsooth would faine prooue his mater that is to saie with a maine Lie that Bishoppes and Priestes lyued a thousand yeres together with their Wiues no lawe being to the contrarie Nowe were al these thinges true according to the purporte of M. Iewelles doctrine as for the more parte they are very false and the Doctours by him corrupted and very vntruly reported what should they make for his purpose I meane for the point it selfe of this Controuersie which is that it is lawful to marrie after the Vowe of Chastitie or after holy Orders receiued For I trow M. Iewel wil not vse this simple kind of Logique Certaine ancient Writers condemned Matrimonie which is vtterly false in respecte of al others by M Iewel here named excepte Tertullian that condemned the seconde Marriages whom the Churche for the same reiecteth Item certaine learned and holy menne in the Primitiue Churche were made Priestes and Bisshoppes after they had benne married Ergo it is lawful to marrie after the Vowe of Chastitie and after holy Orders taken As this reason is fonde and litle worth so al the sayinges of Writers whiche he hath heaped together hitherto serue him to no purpose but to increase the bulke of his Booke After al this feeling him selfe pressed with the force of the Vowe which being aduisedly made is of necessitie to be performed as I prooued in my Confutation to keepe him selfe stil a luffe of from the point of the Question he taketh a newe waie saying that the Priestes in England were neuer Votaries Touching this matter whether the Priestes of England were Votaries or no F◠290. ◠I referre the Reader vnto the first Chapter of the fifth booke of this Treatie Howsoeuer it be by this answer M. Iewel fleeth from the point as farre as he fled before For the Question is whether Priestes in general that haue made a Vowe of Chastitie maie marrie and he answereth that Priestes of England be not Votaries Which answer serueth as aptly in this case as if a question being demaūded of him whether Heretikes are to be burned he would answer we the Superintendentes of England and our Ministers be no heretiques From this he conueigheth him selfe to certaine common places and bringeth in a Huge number of Doctours sayinges tending to this meaning in effect that Chastitie is hard to keepe that it is the gifte of God that God geueth it not to al that it is to be counselled but not commaunded that a man consider wel of what strength he is and if he see him selfe not hable to perfourme the preceptes of Virginitie that rather then he fal into the dungeon of deadly sinne he take a wife and vse the remedie ordeined against incontinencie Al which sayinges we graunt be true and are to be vnderstanded of them whiche be free and haue not bounde them selues by deliberate Vowe to conteine To be shorte it were a very tedious thing here to reherse how he ronneth from Doctour to Doctour how he craueth stuffing of the Canonistes and Schoolemen whom God wote he litle esteemeth how he writeth out their sentences and therewith filleth vp his Booke As for the ancient Doctours sayinges that folow after al this they are spoken some against the perfourmance of wicked Vowes some serue for admonition that certaine maie be suffred to marrie who hauing made onely a simple Vowe either can not or wil not conteine and that the Marriages of suche personnes ought to stand for good and not to be dissolued some importe rebuke of filthy life and exhortation to Chastitie some be written against them that either vtterly condemned the state of Matrimonie or willed Priestes and Deacons in the Primitiue Churche to be compelled to forsake the companie of their lawful Wiues whiche they had married before they receiued holy Orders Thus he writeth out other mennes sayinges without order or discretiō skippeth from one matter to an other and emptieth as it were the stoare of his Notebookes into this Defence and when he hath shuffled in al he proueth nothing directly but onely bringeth the Reader to a Confusion and commeth not at al to the discussion of the point that we staie vpon whiche in this matter of Priestes Marriages is that to marrie it is not lawful after deliberate Vowe of chastitie made nor after holy Orders receiued What colourable argumentes or testimonies he bringeth to proue the affirmatiue Infrà lib. 5 Cap. 2 in this Treatie Reader thou shalt see them cleerely confuted Likewise to shew
thee an other example hauing taken vpon him to proue Defence Pag. 157. that the Canonistes haue taught the people that Fornication betwen single folke is no sinne it is a worlde to see what a doo he maketh what a number of Allegations he hudleth together and when he hath vttered al his stoare he is as farre from proufe of that he tooke in hand to proue as he was before he beganne So that in effecte nothing thereby is done but onely malice shewed and incke and paper spent First to make a great shewe Defence 360. and to increase his Volume for to what other purpose I see not he telleth vs of certaine beastly sayinges of Aetius the olde Heretique and of Prodicus the heathen philosopher as though the Canonistes were to be blamed for the faultes of the Heretiques and Infidelles of olde time Nexte he bringeth in Laurentius Valla the Grammarian whose saying though it be not needeful here to reherse for the reuerence of chaste eares yet it maie with a conuenient interpretation be honestly defended Then Richardus de Sancto Victore a late Schooleman and Socrates the Historiographer are haled in to geue their verdite and though they tel vs of the corrupte iudgement of certaine that made litle accompte in conscience of Fornication and whooredome yet that the Popes Canonistes taught the people that simple Fornication is no sinne thereof they speake not one word Which bicause M. Iewel him selfe perceiued right wel he preuēted that he feared would be obiected and after that number of impertinent allegations M. Ievvelles But. commeth in as his manner is with his But saying But ye wil saie al this hitherto perteineth nothing vnto the Canonistes To whom answere maie be returned that so it is in deed and whereas he knew it him selfe what meant he neuerthelesse to put it in but to increase the heape of his Volume After this he pretendeth to come to the very point and to hit the naile on the head as they saie And there he taketh aduantage of a Decree of the first Toletane Councel falsly reported in Gratian by the ouersight of the printer in an olde Copie many other Copies being true whiche aduantage neuerthelesse eftsones there he forgoeth confessing the Copie to be false Yet al must in to fil vp the great booke Then he goeth to the true Copie and either by ignorance he mistaketh the place or by malice falsifieth the sense dissembling that the worde Concubina Cōcubina is oftentimes taken in good parte to witte for a woman vsed in al respectes like a Wife and with the intent and affection of wedlocke before the Marriage be openly solemnized This shal be better perceiued by reading that I haue said hereof Lib. 5. cap. 15. From that Councel whiche was holden long before any of the Canonistes whom so fowly he sclaundereth wrote letter he goeth to peake in his Gloses the Gloses I meane vpon Otho whom like an vnskilful lawier he maketh one with Otho bonus and vpon the Decrees of Gratian. The one Gloselie falsifieth by leauing out a worde of chiefe importance the other of purpose he misconstrueth the rest that he allegeth out of an other Glose and out of one Petrus Rauennas a Canoniste is true and perteineth nothing to the wicked doctrine whereof he accuseth the Canonistes From the Gloses he starteth to S. Augustine in Enchiridio ad Laurentium Defence 361. And out of him he taketh a sentence vtterly to no purpose but to fil vp the paper From S. Augustine to the Councel of Basile then to Erasmus in Enchiridio militis Christiani belying them bothe From Erasmus he crepeth to Iacobus de Valentia Iacob de Valentia in Psal 118 saying of Iewes Saracenes and certaine il Christian menne that to excuse their detestable life they affirme simple Fornication to be lawful But what is this to the Canonistes From this Iacobus the Spaniard of Valentia he conueieth him selfe to Alexander of Hales the English man and from him to Antonius of Florence the Italian But at their handes he findeth no more reliefe then he founde at the others By Antonius it is roported onely that their errour is confuted who saie that simple Fornication is no sinne In Alexander there is nothing founde but onely a saying pretended to be S. Ambroses whiche maketh nothing to the purpose neither is it at al being vttered in suche wordes to be found in S. Ambrose At length he endeth this matter with a falsified saying of S. Augustine making that holy Father as vntruly he reporteth his tale to saie that he can not tel whether that kinde of Fornication whiche single menne committe with single womenne be forbidden or no. Whiche were it true that S. Augustine so said as in deede he saith it not but speaketh otherwise as here the reader shal finde by me declared yet by that the sclaunder vttered against the Canonistes is not iustified This muche haue I here noted for examples sake to the intent thou maist vnderstand Reader what order he keepeth commonly in his writing and whereof it commeth that his bookes rise to suche a huge quantitie And as he hath donne in these two matters so hath he donne in the reste very fewe excepted The same would I here by sundrie other mo euident examples shewe were it not ouer long Certainely this is not to answer a Booke it is not learnedly to replie it is not directly to confute a Booke It is onely an ostentation of much reading it is a copying out of common places laid vp in Notebookes it is to render wordes for reasons and heapes of impertinent sentences of what so euer Writers for apte testimonies of the ancient Fathers Briefly it is not an orderly disproufe of the doctrine that the Church hath hitherto holden For who so wil consider of it with right iudgement shal finde our proufes to stande vnshaken and my former Booke to remaine a sufficient Confutatiō not only of the Apologie but also of the pretensed Defence it selfe That it maie truly be said there was a Confutation of the Defence made before the Defence it selfe was printed For if the pointes of my former Booke be wel weighed and considered of they wil to the learned seeme a sufficient answer to what so euer he bringeth For trial hereof I referre me to the answere whiche here I haue made vnto his View of Vntruthes The View of M. Ievvels Vntruthes Among whiche Vntruthes thou shalt finde few noted out of the Apologie so by him discharged but that in respect of my Confutation notwithstanding his Defence he maie seeme stil to stand chargeable no lesse then before If he can no better discharge him selfe of suche Vntruthes which he him selfe hath chosen out of the whole heape as the least and easiest for him to defende and in iustification of which he had greatest cōfidence it maie soone be iudged how vnlike it is that he shal be hable to discharge him selfe of those
Foxe hath raked together into that Donghil of his stincking Martyrs So then I trust good Reader this my shorter but more fruiteful trauaile shal wel content thee In which I haue defended and iustified the chiefe matters of the Catholique doctrine by M. Iewel impugned and therewith ouerthrowen his weake Defence In sundrie other pointes also whiche depende of Doctrine I haue detected his great and manifolde Vntruthes Neither haue I ioined issue with him in any point wherein I haue not sufficiently proued him either deceiued or a deceiuer Wherein as Ignorance maie stande him in some excuse for the one so muste he beare the gilte of malice for the other Eche pointe here is not handled with like diligence and like exactenesse I graunt for the matter hath not so required Yet where I haue benne least disposed to take paines and founde my selfe most weary in answering his friuolous Obiections thou shalt finde the truthe sufficiently mainteined and M. Iewel fully refuted If anywhere thou espie defecte or insufficiencie impute the blame to me If in any parte I shal seeme to haue donne wel take thou the profite geue God the praise Thomas Harding A DETECTION OFVNTRVTHES IN M. IEWELS EPISTLE TO THE QVENE THE FIRST BOOKE How vntruly and how slaunderously M. Iewel hath charged his Aduersarie with certaine hateful crimes in his Epistle to the Quenes Maiestie set before his pretensed Defence of the Apologie The First Chapter WHEREAS M. Iewel in the Epistle to the Queenes Maiestie set before his pretensed Defence of the Apologie chargeth me with diuers pointes whereby bothe to discredite the Catholique Doctrine and to stirre her Maiestie to indignation against me and other learned menne here who haue confuted his manifold erroures and detected sundrie his false partes wherewith dangerously he seduceth her Maiesties Subiectes least bothe I by my silence should seeme to acknowledge my selfe gilty of the thinges he chargeth me with and least others might be induced to beleeue him thinking him not to be so voide of dew reuerence and shame as so farre to abuse her Maiesties credulitie in these matters who hath no leisure or listeth not to examine the same I haue thought it conuenient and necessarie before I come to any parte of his directe answer to my Confutation of the Apologie to cleare my selfe of what so euer he imputeth vnto me in that Epistle and to shewe how al that he hath written against me in the same is vtterly false and sclaunderous And bicause I cannot better and in plainer wise performe it then by laying forth as it were the booke where eche thing is said whereof he taketh holde and by reporting myne owne sayinges which he hath falsified and vntruly reported Let it not seeme strange nor be lothesom vnto thee good Reader that being driuen vnto it by this necessitie I bring forth againe vnto thee certaine places before written and conteined in my former Treaties How lothsom soeuer it be thee to reade and mee to repeate againe certaine thinges before vttered verely it is the chiefe waie by whiche in this case the truthe maie clearely be opened Thus then entreth M. Iewel his accusation against me M. Iewel in the epistle to the Quene pag. 2. ad finem M. Harding doubteth not to seeke quarelles against vs euen in that vve mainteine 1 The Baptisme of Christian Infantes 2 The proceeding and 3 Godhed of the Holy Ghoste 4 The Faith of the holy and glorious Trinitie and 5 the General and Catholique profession of the Common Creede Harding To confute errours and to declare the Truthe is not to seeke Quarelles Neither ought he to be called a Quareller who of two waies sheweth whiche is the better Touching these fiue pointes First I finde no faulte with M. Iewel nor with his felowes for that they mainteine the Baptisme of Infantes For therein I hold with them The Baptisme of infantes no where reproued To my remembrance I speake not of it of purpose in my whole booke of the Confutation nor in my Reioindre only where I proue that certaine great and necessarie pointes are to be beleeued which be not expressed in the holy Scriptures In the defence pag. 191. Cōfutatiō fol. 84. a. bicause these Ministers in their Apologie saie that al thinges needful for our saluation are abundantly and fully comprehended in the Scriptures among sundrie other thinges whiche I demaunde to be shewed vs in the Scriptures I aske where in al the Bible they finde that Infantes ought to be Baptized And wel that question might I demaunde for proufe of that I intended in that place neither can it be founde expressely commaunded or spoken of I am wel assured Wherefore whiles M. Iewel accuseth me to the Queenes Maiestie of seeking Quarelles against him in this point he sheweth vs in him selfe a perfite paterne of a Quareller If I should here appose him in his owne wordes and aske him Baptisme of Christian Infantes what he meaneth by mainteining the Baptisme of Christian Infantes I thinke rather he would saie I were a seeker of Quarelles Yet would I faine heare what he would answere For what Is he of the opinion that suche Infantes as be borne of Christian Parentes be Christians before they be baptized If they be Christians what neede they to be Christened If they haue neede to be Christened why doth he cal them before Baptisme receiued Christian Infantes Is any Man Woman or Child to be called a Christian before he be Christened Latet anguis in herba There lieth a Pad in the strawe Perhappes he thinketh it is not yet time to spette out the poison of that heresie whiche it semeth he hath suckt out of Caluin against the necessitie of Baptisme of Infantes whose parentes be faithful This point I touched in my Confutation of the Apologie Fol. 67. b. Neither durst M. Iewel yet to be plaine when he commeth to that place in his Defence where he had good cause to treate fully of it and to deliuer the worlde from that Suspicion worthily conceiued and to resolue vs whether he thinke Baptisme of Christian Parentes Children to be necessarie or no. Verely by saying that by Goddes Free Election they be pure Ievvel in the Defence Pag. 250. and holy and by allowing al that Caluine saith thereof he geueth out a secrete signification his meaning to be that in them Baptisme is not vtterly necessarie These mennes Doctrine if I be not deceiued tendeth to this issue that at length Baptisme shal be nothing els but a Signe marke badge or recognizance of a Christian Whereof it must folowe that as a man maie be a Souldiour a Seruing man or a Reteiner to a Noble man though he lacke his Captaines or his Masters Badge or Recognizance likewise so many as be borne of Christian Parentes be also Christians though they neuer receiue Baptisme By the Premisses of these mennes Doctrines we haue iuste cause to thinke that at length they wil teache that the very Signes
doctrine Where the thing you treate of is not in controuersie betwene you and vs and where you speake not with affection to ouercome Strange manner of vttering the faith we graunt some tymes ye vtter truth But the manner of vtterance of your Faith is straunge to Christen eares who haue bene accustomed to heare Credo in Deum Credo in Iesum Christum Credo in spiritum Sanctum I beleeue in God I beleeue in Iesus Christe I beleeue in the holy Ghoste That other forme of wordes whiche you vse soundeth not so Christianlike I beleeue there is a God I beleeue that Iesus Christ is the Sonne of the Father I beleeue that the holy Ghoste is God Although this forme of wordes doo expresse a right Faith yet being suche as maie be vttered by Deuilles and hath bene alwaies vttered by Heretikes their ministers the auncient and holy Fathers haue liked better the olde fourme and manner after whiche euerie Christen man saith I beleeue in God I beleeue in Iesus Christe I beleeue in the holy Ghoste For this importeth a signification of Faith with Hope and Charitie that other of Faith only which the deuilles haue and tremble as S. Iames saith wherein as in many other thinges Iacob 2. these Defenders resemble them S. Augustine in sundry places putting a difference betwen these two formes of wordes vpon S. Iohn alleging S. Paules wordes To one that beleeueth in him who iustifieth the wicked his Faith is imputed to righteousnes Rom. 3. In Iohan. Tract 29. To beleue in God what is it demaundeth what is it to beleeue in him It is by his aunswer Credendo amare credendo diligere credendo in eum ire eius membris incorporari with beleeuing to loue him with beleeuing to goe into him and to be incorporate in his members that is to be made a member of his body In an other place he saith speaking of Christe De verbis Domini Serm. 61 it It forceth muche whether a man beleeue that he is Christ and whether he beleeue in Christ. For the Deuilles beleeued that he was Christ neither for al that beleeued the Deuilles in Christ For he beleeueth in Christe who both trusteth in Christe and loueth Christe For if he haue Faith without Hope and Loue he beleeueth that Christe is he beleeueth not in Christe So he that beleeueth in Christe with beleeuing into him shal Christe come and by some meane he is vnited vnto him and is made a member in his body Whiche can not be done excepte there come also both Hope and Charitie Thus S. Augustine The same doctrine he vttereth writing vpon the 77. Psalme By this thou seest â—â—â—â—ed I blâ—me not their 〈◊〉 dâ—sâ—â—â— the Trinitie not their Profâ—sâ—ion of the CoÌ„mon Creede as M. Iewell calleth it but only I seeme beâ—ter to allowâ— the auncient and vsual manner of vttering the Beleefe whiche for good reason hath euer seemed to the learned Fathers more commendable Reason and consideration of duetie would that a Minister of Gods worde should be a fraide to vtter so great and so manifest vntruthes vnto his liege Soueraine But of like some wil saie he wil amende that faulte in other partes of his Epistle to her Maiestie specially sith that he allegeth nothing but directeth the Reader vnto the place where it is to be founde by his quotation noted in the margent whiche hath at least some colour of vpright dealing and being founde false declareth an impudent falshod I would wish that for truthes sake al would reade and conferre and iudge of the oddes betwen vs bothe First thus he writeth Iewel The maine grounde of his vvhole Plea is this that the Bishop of Rome vvhaâ— so 〈◊〉 it â—â—al like him to determine in iudgemeÌ„t can neuer â—rrâ— Fâ—â— directioÌ„ of the Râ—â—der he quoteth thus Câ—sus fo 334. b Harding What he meaneth by his terme Plea I wote not ne care not I pleade not for right of any temporal thing Neither am I a lawier as he knoweth 〈◊〉 emploie my studie of Diuinitie to defendâ— the. Catholique Faâ—th and to detecte his falshod that Godâ— people be not by him and his felowes dangerously seduced The thing whereat he scoffeth for these wordes what so euer it shal like him to determine be scorneful wordes is not so vttered by me as he reporteth Who liste to see what I saie for so muche as the booke of my Confutation is not alwaies at handâ— thus it is The Pope succedeth Peter in auctoritie and power Confut. Fol. 334. b For whereas the shepe of Christe continewe to the worldes ende he is not wise that thinketh Christe to haue made a shepeherd teÌ„porarie for a time ouer his perpetual flocke Then what shepeherdly endoument our Lorde gaue to the first shepeherde at the institution of the shepeherdly office of the Churche that is he vnderstanded to haue geuen ordinarily to euery successour To Peter he gaue that he obteined by his praier made to the Father that his Faith should not faile Againe to him he gaue grace Luca. 22. that to performe the performance whereof at him he required to wit that he confirmed and strengthened his brethren Wherefore the grace of stedfastnes of faith and of confirming the wauering Hovv aÌ„d vvherin the Pope erreth not â—e neuer erred and doubteful in the Faith euery Pope obteineth of the holy Ghoste for the benefite of the Churche And so the Pope although he maie erre by personal errour in his owne priuate iudgement as a man and as a particular doctour in his owne opinion yet as he is Pope the successour of Peter the Vicare of Christe in earth the shepeherd of the vniuersal Churche in publike iudgement in deliberation and definitiue sentence he neuer erreth nor neuer erred For when so euer he ordeineth or determineth any thing by his high bishoply auctoritie intending to binde Christen menne to performe or beleeue the same he is alwaies gouerned and holpen with the grace and fauour of the holy Ghoste Answer M. Iewel to this if ye can Certainely hitherto ye haue not answered As for that you bring against it in your pretensed Defence there is no graue or learned man of your side that is not ashamed of it In that game of scoffing I doo gladly yelde you the garlande Your greatest Doctours there are Alphonsus de Castro and Erasmus menne of our age As for Erasmus it were easie to Answer him but here I thinke his tale not worthe the Answering Mary Alphonsus saith somewhat to your purpose if the tale whiche you make him to tel were his owne Certainely if he once wrote it when he beganne first to write afterwards with better aduise he reuoked it For in the bookes of the later printes those woordes whiche you reherse are not founde Thus you saie Defence pag. â—â—5 AlphoÌ„sus de haeresiae buâ— li. 1. cap. 4. Alphonsus de Castro one of M. Hardinges owne special Doctours saith Non dubitamus an Haereticum
wordes be simply beleeued let my Confutation of the Apologie be vewed and there I shal be founde touching these odious pointes of these princes Variance with the Popes of their time to haue vttered these woordes farre otherwise then he here reporteth Confut. fol. 339. b. Concerning the case between these three Kinges of England and the Bishoppes of Rome for the tyme being I say litle If they did wel and the Bishoppes euil they haue their rewarde the other their punishment If otherwise or how so euer ech one at Gods iudgement shal haue his deserued measure But be it graunted al were true ye say though we know the more parte to be false Henrie the secōd S. Thomas Arch bishop of Canturbury King Iohn What though king Henrie the Second were euil entreated of Pope Alexander about the murthering of S. Thomas the Archebishop of Canturburie and King Iohn likewise of that zelous and learned Pope Innocentius the thirde about the stirre he made against the Church for cause of Steuen Lankton Archebishop of Canturburie Henrie the .8 This is no iust cause to forsake the Churche King Henrie the eigth likewise of the Popes in our time about matters yet fresh bleeding Is this a good cause why ye who haue nothing to doo with Princes matters now ended and buried should forsake the Churche change your Faith change the whole order of Religion and condemne al before your time for a thousand yeres Bicause the Bishoppes of Rome haue done euil wil ye geue ouer the Faith of the Churche of Rome Bicause the Popes did wronge to Princes wil ye doo wrong to your selues Bicause the Popes were at Variance with these three Kinges wil ye be at Variance with God Bicause they excommunicated them wil ye excommunicate your selues I haue heard of a foole that being striken of one standing a looffe of would eftsones strike an other that stood next him But I neuer heard of any so foolish that seeing an other striken would therefore kill him selfe Verely your Apostasie and departing from the Catholique Churche is to weightie a matter to be defended with so light a reason Thou maist see good Reader that here I take not vpon me in Defence of those Popes to answere vnto these matters nor shortely as M. Iewel saith nor at length nor in light manner nor in sad manner which matters he calleth Tyrannical iniuries and iuste causes of griefe The more cleerely to shewe how litle good matter our new Vsurping Clergie haue to bring for the excuse and Defence of the Alteration they haue made in Religion and of their Schisme and departing from the Catholike Churche bicause in their Apologie they alleged these Practises of the Popes only I demaunde their tale for their better aduantage being graunted to be true whiche yet I saied expressely was knowen to be false for the more parte what reliefe their cause could haue thereby and how the euil doinges of the Bishoppes of Rome if it were graunted they did euil therein could be drawen to Defence of their owne worse doing To whiche demaunde M. Iewel by his silence in his pretensed Defence maketh al the worlde witnesse Defence Pag. 733. how vnhable he is to answere Howbeit in that place he vseth his common sleight by cutting awaie the chiefe parte of my tale wherein lyeth the weighte and so dischargeth him selfe of the paines of answering Any booke may so sone be answered Touching these Popes and these Kinges when M. Iewel or any of his felow Ministers shal truely and with sufficient reason proue vnto vs that Henrie the Second did wel when he gaue occasion that the blessed Martyr S. Thomas Archebishop of Canturburie was murdered that al King Iohns attemptes against the Churche for cause of Steuen Lankton Archebishop and primate of the same prouince were iuste and right and that King Henrie the eight did wel and according either to the holy Scriptures or doctrine of the auncient and learned Fathers when he tooke vpon him to be Supreme Head in earth of the Churche of England immediatly vnder Christe whiche no temporal prince euer tooke vpon him before and likewise when for maintenance of the same title he hanged headded and quartered so many holy and learned men of al degrees now blessed Sainctes and crowned Martyrs in heauen when I say either he or they or any of them shal proue this much vnto vs in such sorte as I said before then wil we say with them ô worthy Kinges ô naughty Popes yea then wil we saie too ô the crowe is white Neuerthelesse I doo not here iustifie al the deedes of the Popes But what so euer they did that is no sufficient cause why these menne should forsake their Faith and departe from the felowship of the Churche Item there Iewel But concerning the Maiestie and right of Kinges and Emperours M. Harding telleth vs they haue their first authoritie by the positiue Lavve of Nations and can haue no more povver then the people hath of vvhom they take their temporal iurisdiction Confutat Fol. 318. b. Harding If I haue herein spoken euil geue witnesse against me of euil Ye would faine finde a faulte I perceiue if ye wiste wherein You seeme not wel to vnderstand what you saie nor whereof you affirme But you allege the Scriptures Per me Reges regnant Prouer. 8. By me Kinges doo reigne And there is no power but from God very learnedly forsooth As though the auctoritie Rom. 13. that Princes haue by the positiue lawe of Nations and the power whiche they haue of the people were not of God as who vseth that meane to conueie that power vnto them Item there Iewel M. Harding euen in the selfe same booke vnder certaine general threates chargeth your Maiestie vvith disordered presumption by the example of Ozias the vvicked King vpon vvhom as he vntruly saith God sent his vengeance for the like Confut. fol. 298. a. Harding You would faine the Queenes Maiestie should conceiue hatred against me I perceiue M. Iewel and thereto you applie al your skil and cunning But Sir who deserueth more thankes at God and the Princes for the time being he that telleth them the Truthe and in time geueth warning to beware of Goddes Vengeance before it be to late or he that for his owne wordly interest holdeth his peace and leadeth them into a wrong way from the whiche if they returne not backe they are sure at length to feele either the temporal smarte of Goddes Vengeance in this life or the euerlasting smarte in the life to come Ye flatter ye flatter your Princes M. Iewel ye deceiue them ye blinde them ye worke al meanes possible that the Truthe be not brought to their vnderstanding least were it knowen and of them perceiued ye should be turned out of your welthy roumes and driuen againe to Geneua I had almost said Gehenna from whence ye came Certainely ye shutte vp the kingdome of Heauen from Princes and others so
Bastardes An. 1273. In prouisione de Martona cap. 9. paste wholy with the Lordes Temporal whether the Lordes spiritual would or no yea and that contrary to the expresse Decrees and Canons of the Churche of Rome Al these thinges saith he the wise and learned could sone haue tolde me And faine would I know of the wise and learned in deede whether al these thinges be true or other wise Verely for my parte I haue great cause to doubte If an other man had said them I should rather haue beleeued them As for M. Iewel I haue so generally founde him false in reporting al mennes sayinges whiche I examine by their bookes that I see good cause to misturst him euery where when so euer I lacke the bookes from whence he bringeth his allegations And although al that here he reporteth touching this matter were truely reported yet thereby it is not proued that al was lawfully and wel done But hereof as I said before I refuse to entre dispute But now whereas M. Iewel committeth Religion and al matters touching Faith vnto the Lordes Temporal and Commons assembled in Parlamente and wil that al orders and Statutes by them made and enacted concerning the same stand for good and lawful though the Bishoppes dissent neuer so muche By this he maketh the Faith not a Standerd to measure our opinions and iudgementes by as it ought to be but he maketh the willes and fansies of the Lordes the Standerd whereby to measure our Faith Faith made chāgeable according to the change of times And so the Faith shal be changeable according to the change of times For whereas al menne know in how fewe thinges the Lordes dissent from the wil and pleasure of the Prince who seeth not how thus it maie come to passe that our Religion and Faith shal change at the pleasure of euery Prince for the time being and that so at length we shal haue no stable Religion nor Faith at al If M. Iewel wil saie it behoueth al menne to know Gods worde and not to suffer them selues to yelde vnto any thinge that is not allowed thereby what remedie can be prouided against al errour when Princes and Lordes shal finde suche Doctours and Preachers as M. Iewel is who shal easily persuade the people that to be the meaning of Goddes worde by which the Princes and Lordes maie acheeue their desires But hereof I shal perhappes haue occasion to speake more hereafter Now whereas he complaineth so greuously of me for that I cal their Church I meane them that made the Apologie and their fauourers a malignant Churche a new Churche erected by the Deuil a Babilonical Tower a heard of Antichriste a Temple of Lucifer a Synagoge a Schoole of Satan ful of Robberie Sacrilege Schisme and Heresie If he his felowes and their folowers wil repent them hartily and vnfeinedly of their errours and heresies and returne home againe vnto the Catholique Churche if they wil ceasse to diuide and scatter abroad with the deuil the author of diuision and gather together with Christe and repaire vnitie if they wil leaue the manifolde and absurde confusion of opinions and doctrines whiche their sundrie sectes doo professe and mainteine stubbornly if they wil leaue to prepare a waie for Antichriste by their euil doctrine leading the worlde to al libertie of the flesh if they wil cal to God for grace and dispose them selues to humilitie if they wil at length heare the Catholique Churche if they wil acknowledge their wicked doctrine against the daily Sacrifice to procede out of Satans Schoole as it is confessed by Luther him selfe if they wil not mainteine their Robberies and Spoiles of Churches as iuste deedes if they wil forsake their Incestuous and Sacrilegious Marriages Briefly if they wil amende wherein they haue offended I wil gladly reuoke those wordes and how so euer in respecte of time past they haue deserued so to be spoken of I wil speake of them no other wise then of the Children of the Churche then of our dere brethren then of Goddes frendes Thus I haue answered the chiefe partes of M. Iewels epistle to the Quenes Maiestie and by repeating myne owne wordes which I was forced to doo I haue shewed euidently to the Readers eye how shamelesly he belyeth me and my Treaties Whereof the Reader maie take a view and so iudge what credite he deserueth in the rest of his Defence As for the rest of his epistle consisting wholy of flatterie I thinke not worth the answering Neither hath he vsed any more truthe in his Preface to the Christian Reader and in his Epistle to me set at the ende of his Defence where he filleth his magent with great numbers of Quotations pretending thereby the absurde and vntrue pointes in the Texte reproued to be founde in the Treaties whiche so busily he quoteth Now if I should in likewise answer to euery suche parte in the said Preface and Epistle conteined by these fewe it maie appeare to what hugenesse my booke would growe and of the whole what vnprofitable matter would rise soothly none other but a cōtinual and lothsome declaration of his vntrue dealing in one sorte or other But for so much as the same is by this briefe Answer to his Epistle dedicatorie alreadie sufficiently discouered that other labour maie seeme needelesse As we finde him in this so we finde him in the rest though otherwise not very constant yet in the rate of his writing one manner a man that is to saie one that euery where maketh his onely aduantage of lyes falsifyinges and corruptions How vniustly M. Iewel obiecteth sharpe speache and vncourteous wordes vnto his Aduersarie and how iuste cause there was that suche order of speache should be vsed The .2 Chapter GEntle Reader cōsider I pray thee indifferently how the case standeth betwixt M. Iewel and me Before he entreth into his Defence of the Apologie betwen his Epistle to the Quenes Maiestie and his Preface to the Reader he hath extraordinarily inserted foure leaues In which he laboureth al that he can to perfourme two thinges to discredit me and to aduaunce his owne credit To bring this to passe First he accuseth me next he excuseth him selfe He accuseth me of vncourteous Wordes he excuseth him selfe of fowle Vntruthes setting forth a colourable Viewe of a few of the same How reasonably he doth the one and how sufficiently the other by that I shal here declare thou maist iudge First touching wordes Where so euer godly zeale and iuste griefe moued me to vse sharpe speache albeit nowhere I vse so sharpe as the indignite of the thing required of al those places he hath caused certaine my wordes to be culled out and to be laid together as it were in a table before the Reader And bicause he would not seme scorneful euen there reprouing me for the same he calleth them forsooth certaine principal flowers of M. Hardinges modest speache And least he should at any time leaue his common
you are to defend it what wise man seeth not Yet bicause you thinke your selfe shamed for euer excepte you stand to it stoutely ye proceede without regard of truth or modestie And nowe seing your selfe brought to this distresse that you must either yeelde with some shame or prosecute your Chalenge with more shame ye choose rather to seeme impudent in lying and to passe al measure in craking then any thing ouerseene in that you first tooke in hande And albeit bothe I and others haue made most euident proufe hereof and the thing it selfe speaketh so muche yea and your owne very frendes see it and be right sorfor it yet forsooth to cal M. Iewel a lyer a sclaunderer a craking Chalenger by verdite of M. Iewel him selfe it was vnmannerly and vnciuilly done But sir sith you require me to be so courteous in my writinges against you why did not you your selfe in yours against me vse more courtesie Is that commendable in you whiche is reproueable in me Or els what haue you a special dispensation to say what you liste and to require al others to adore you and say Aue Rabbi Shal it be lawful for you to crie out vpon vs tolle tolle crucifige and must we sing vnto you Sanctus Sanctus Sanctus Whiles ye barke and bite must we caste a disshe of fragmentes vnto you Whiles ye play the Beare with vs must we throw honny vnto you Whiles ye play the parte of Satan must we light a candle before you S. Paule the chosen vessel of Christe teaching Titus Tit. 1. how to demeane himselfe towardes such as you are said Increpa illos durè rebuke them sharpely But what soeuer you say or doo must we needes sothe you and smooth◠you Muste we stroke you and cooxe you as men doo curst boyes after they haue done shrewd turnes If you passe al men that euer wrote in number of lyes in vanitie of boasting in the common custom of scoffing as now it hath benne prooued against you shal we feare that we seeme not to lacke the ciuilitie you speake of to cal you a lyer a boaster a scoffer What is the matter that doing so il you require to be spoken of so wel By this or no vvaie els like it is we should please M. Ievvel PErhaps whereas the Rentes of the Bishoprike of Sarisburie cause men al to belorde you your eares being of long tyme accustomed to suche honorable greetinges you looke to be honoured at our handes as you are of your poore hungry Craftesmen that hauing learned to reade Englishe pretily sue vnto you for Ministerships And then whereas you lye impudently folowing them we muste saie were it not that your good Lordship saith so verely we should haue thought otherwise And whereas you falsifie your testimonies we must put the fault in your Spectacles When you hew and mangle the Doctours so fowly that al the worlde may see it we must beare you in hande that when your Lordship wrote so the booke was not at hande When you serue vs with a point of Scurrilitie we muste saye O howe it becommeth your L. to be meary When you shoote at randon diuerting altogether from the special point that is to be answered vnto impertinent matter we must say your L. shooteth faire though somewhat wide of the marke When by no witte nor cunning you are hable to make good your Chalenge yet then we must say that your L. lacketh no woordes and hath geuen a good Push towardes it To be shorte for these be the special pointes for whiche you accuse my vtterance of vncourtesie when you speake big and Goliathlike vpbraid al the hoste of God to witte the whole Catholique Churche of these laste thousand yeres what must we doo but to shew token of feare 1. Reg. 17. as the Israelites vnder king Saul did and geue backe that you may boast and crake alone Truly touching your dignitie what accompte so euer you make of your selfe I take you but for M. Iewel Bacheler of Diuinitie sometime person of Sunningwel betwen Oxford and Abington And that is the greatest degree that euer I knewe you called vnto If the Quenes Highnes of her special fauour towardes you haue geuen you the rentes of the Bishoprike of Sarisburie you are the more bounde to thanke her and to consider what accompte you haue to make of it It is not money that can set you one steppe higher in ecclesiastical degree A Bishop you are not I am right sure neither can al the Kinges and Quenes of the worlde nor al the Parlamentes of England by any their owne onely power and auctoritie make you a lawful and a true Bishop The same I tolde you in my Confutation of your Apologie whiche point you haue not sufficiently answered as it shal appeare Yet was it very behoofful for you to haue fully answered But I beare with you as therein not lacking good wil but habilitie Study for it so long as you wil you shal neuer be hable to make it good that you are yet a right Bishop Therefore in this respecte you ought to beare with my bolde vtterance the more taking you for no greater man in right then you were when you subscribed in Oxford to the Real Presence to the Sacrifice of the Masse and to those other pointes that now you impugne so busily In very deede this muche I confesse that in case you were a Bishop though an vnworthy Bishop yea a wicked Bishop yet for the dignitie of that Vocation and for the Orders sake I should and would reuerence you accordingly Act. 23. Whereas it was tolde S. Paule after he had reuiled Ananias that he was the high Bishop he reuoked his worde and submitted him selfe to that was written Thou shalt not curse the gouernour of thy people Exod. 22. Whereby he doth vs to vnderstande that had he knowen he had benne no Bishop at al he woulde not haue reuoked his worde that in your opinion is vnciuile and vncourteous but haue let it stand in force You being as il a man as euer Ananias was and hauing done muche more spite vnto the Churche of Christe and more dishonour vnto God then euer he did beare with me for speaking truly and ernestly without flatterie Act. 23. The example of S. Paule saying to Ananias Thou painted wal not knowing him to be the high Bishop and yet occupying a more honorable roome then you are yet called vnto leadeth me not greatly to repent of any of those wordes spoken of you or of your felowes the Sacramentaries and Protestantes of our time whiche to impaire my credite you haue culled out of my Bookes and laid together in one heape And what so euer I haue written or said that toucheth your person specially and irketh you I take God to record therein I respected not M. Iewel the priuate man but M. Iewel the publique enemie of Christes Churche the professed Impugner of the Truth and Catholique Religion
the despiser and prophaner of the holy Sacramentes the breaker of vnitie the enemie of God And for my warrant in so doing I haue the examples whiche here I laid forth before of the Prophetes of the Apostles specially of S. Paule S. Iude and S. Peter of S. Iohn the Baptiste of our Sauiour Christe him selfe Yea I say furthermore what is that sharpenes of wordes whiche in this case I meane when the auctoritie of the Councels and holy Fathers is so lightly contemned when Gods holy Mysteries are so turkishly prophaned when the Churche is so falsly sclaundered when vnitie is so with most certaine danger of Christian soules broken when the whole state of the Catholique Religion is so wickedly ouerthrowen briefly when God him selfe is so horribly blasphemed In this case I say what sharpenes of wordes is there which iuste griefe of a Christian harte and godly zeale causeth not to seeme not onely excusable but also laudable yea necessary yea with praise and reward to be honoured If when the Children of Israel defyled them selues in Fornication with the wemen of Moab God in anger said to Moyses take al the chiefe of the people Num. 25. and hang them vp in Gibettes against the Sunne that my wrath may be turned from Israel where there is so muche bothe bodily and spiritual fornication yea sacrilegious Incest not only coÌ„mitted but permitted but taught but couÌ„seled and exhorted and for some parte commaunded against the honour and wil of God our Moyseses and Aarons the true Gouernours withholden from executing their dewtie shal it not become vs whose hartes God toucheth at least with wordes to shewe the griefe of our mindes and with conuenient sharpenes of speache to rebuke the heinous wickednes that is committed and so for so muche as in vs lyeth to reuoke Gods people from it If Phinees being nor high Priest nor magistrate but only as yet a priuate man Ibidem was highly praised and rewarded of God for his zeale in killing one of the Israelites for whooredom committed with an harlot of Madian to stay Gods wrath shal we seme to deserue blame for vttering onely wordes in reproufe of so farre more heinous crimes if not to stay God from his iuste wrath nor the offenders from their wickednes yet the people of God from the like example What you are very nice M Iewel that finde so great faulte with me onely for certaine sharpe wordes bestowed in reprehension of your and your companions so diuers and so greeuous enormities You are not taken vp for halting as they say pardy Halting may haue some excuse of humaine infirmitie This that is reprehended in you is not only halting it is falling downe right Neither are you so muche to be rebuked for your owne wilful falling downe but muche more for that you studie and labour al that you can to pul al others downe into the pitte that your selfe are fallen into Now in this case the pitte being so dangerous is it not wel and dewtifully done to geue warning to Gods people to beware of it Al that I writte is for the peoples sake For with you and such as you are I haue litle hope to doo any good Suche ones the Apostle aduertiseth vs Tit. 1. not to deale withal Now how shal the people be dewly warned to beware whose senses be more liuely in worldly then in spiritual thinges excepte the dulnes of their minde be stirred vp with the feare of great peril And how can the greatnes of this peril be signified vnto them but with wordes of some vehemencie As for example If I should say to one that goeth forth by night sir the way you shal passe through is vneeuen by reason of litle holes and furrowes And you take not heede you may happen to stumble or perhappes to wrentche your foote Vpon this warning wil he be so careful how to go as if I say thus If you loue your life beware how you go that way for there be great pittes and dungeons that you shal hardly escape and if you fal you are sure to breake your necke The case is like in this behalfe M. Iewel The people be alwaies going foreward and for lacke of knowledge they passe forth as it were by night Now so farre as we are persuaded the way they go in at this day in England to be perilous as that whiche through Schismes and Heresies and other manifold wickednes thereof ensewing leadeth them to euerlasting damnation should we not deceiue them if we tolde them that Dungeons were but furrowes that deepe pittes were but stumbling holes and that there were no great Danger in the way For this cause therefore M. Iewel that the people of God might be the more a fraid to heare you and beleeue you and to folow your damnable waies I thought it good and expedient in writing against you and against the heresies of our time to vse shâ—rpâ—r wordes and speache of more vehemencie then otherwise I would haue done if I had written to you priuatly or so as knowing that my bookes should haue come to no mannes handes but to yours I knew you would wince and kicke at it But spare not litle care I therefore so that by my labour profite redounde to Christian People For what cause in writing my Confutation of the Apologie I vsed suche verdure of stile as might seme not ouer flatte but tempred with conuenient sharpenesse BEfore I began to set my penne to the paper I considered wel with my selfe what it was to stirre vp such Hurnettes and to prouoke such Waspes to anger Touched I them once were it neuer so gentilly I knew they would straight way flee at my face and buzze about me and that possibly I should not saue my selfe from their stinging Yet hauing a good harte and being right willing for the Truthes sake and for the Defence of Christes Churche to sustaine that Smarte what so euer it should be I tooke aduise with my selfe how to tempre my stile so as bothe Gods cause might seeme sufficiently defended and they not iustly offended Three vvaies of vvriting against an Aduersarie Whereas then there be three wayes of writing against such Aduersaries of the Churche vsed diuersly of the Fathers vpon diuers occasions of time place person and matter of which the one is colde softe meeke lowly and demure an other hote rough sterne and vehement the third tempred with a conuenient mediocritie betwen both though at the firste in my Answer to the Chalenge I inclined more vnto the softe and gentle waye afterward in my Confutation of the Apologie and in my Reioindre I chose the meane that by the one extreme I might not seeme to worke vpon choler and to seeke reuenge rather then Defence of Gods cause by the other to be too abiecte and to shew lesse confidence in our cause to thincouragement of such cockish Aduersaries Now commeth me M. Iewel and medling litle with the matter it selfe and
benne commended most for the spirite of meekenes the same thowgh toward other offenders haue shewed them selues like milde Moyses yet hauing to do with Heretikes commonly haue demeaned them selues like earnest Elias If lyers should be entreated in like sorte as true reporters slaunderers and backebyters as faithful frendes heretikes as catholikes Apostates as stedfast Christians blasphemers as saintes truth should be iniured wickednes flattered vertue misprised Of whom the truth was impugned or resisted with malice them litle spared either the Prophetes or the Apostles or Christ him selfe Thus may al this matter for which M. Iewel hath made so much adoo seme to haue benne sufficiently answered before Neither with more truth hath he alleaged that other saying of myne which standing by it selfe alone as he hath placed it in his booke immediatly after the former falsified saying geueth out a colourable shew as if I condemned my selfe Thus he layeth it forth Ievvel Againe in the same Confutation There is no man of vvisedom or honestie that vvould vvith so immoderate vpbraidinges impaire the estimation of his modestie fol. 300. b. Harding But in that saying M. Iewel I rebuke the impudent lyes and slaunders of him that wrote the Apologie who there raileth immoderatly at the Bishops whom the holy Ghost Actâ— 20. as S. Paule saith hath ordeined to gouerne the Church of God saying that neither they knowe nor wil knowe the thinges perteining to their charge nor set a iote by any point of Religion saue that which concernes their belly and riot And there further vncharitably he burdeneth them as if they were so wicked as to commaund Christian Princes to destroy al Religion and to crucifie againe Christe him selfe In my answer to this among other wordes thus I say Confut. 300. b. Put the wordes of this railing Defenders amplification aside and the whole sentence that riseth of al this talke is only this It is not reason Bishops be iudges in matters of faith and not secular Princes Now to geue a colour hereto and to moue Princes to take the matter into their owne handes they say as becommeth them and none els For there is no man of wisedome or honestie that would with so impudent lyes diminish his credite and with so immoderate vpbraidinges impaire the estimation of his modestie Neither be these men so hote in this matter for any loue they beare to secular Princes For if any such Prince be not a fauorer of their Gospel then haue they a Blast of a Trompet to blow him downe as it appeareth by their bookes made against the monstrous regiment of women and by the good obedience their French brethren the Huguenotes kepe toward their king in France Other examples of the like Euangelical obedience in other countries I leaue to mennes remembrance The circumstance of this whole matter considered which may better be seene in my booke I reporte me to the discrete Reader whether any iust cause be ministred to M. Iewel to pike quarel to the wordes by him alleaged specially if they be wholly and truly alleaged But why did he nippe of those foure wordes with so impudent lyes Doth not this discouer his falsehode and shew of whom that saying was meant It semed good to such a lyer to shifte away the mention of Lyes from the Readers eyes that he might not seme charged therewith Thus al his aduantage standeth in falsehode But what shal a man say To require plainenesse and truth of such a Defender of vntruthe were to require him either to vnsay al that he hath said or to say nothing at al. For certaine it is falsehode can neuer be defended by truth Now it remaineth that I require the Reader to conferre the peeces of sentences that M. Iewel hath culled out of my writinges with the whole sentences as they are by me written and with the circumstance of the places whence they be piked out That being done let it be weighed whether I speake ouer bitterly or he be answered according to his deserte For example I thinke it good here to lay two or three before the Reader that so he be admonished to doo the like him selfe for trial and iudgement to be made in the reste Here to lay forth al were to print againe a great parte of my bookes Special vvordes of discourtesie noted by M. Iâ—wel In the first place then M. Iewel hath noted these wordes Your Deuilish spite Reioindre Fol. 18. b. Consider Reader how and vpon what occasion these wordes are there vttered There thou findest thus First he maketh his entrie with a solemne praier protestantlike as if he were about to make a Sermon and his fauorable hearers ready to sing a song Then he accuseth the inflammation of my choler because alluding to the wordes of Daniel I glaunced at the name of the Foreronners of Antichriste therewith rubbing him and his holy companions as it were on their gaulle for the Deuilish spite they shew to the blessed sacrifice of Christe mystically represented and truly continewed in the dayly Sacrifice of the Church now called the Masse Here I said not Your Deuilish spite directing my talke to you M. Iewel but the Deuilish spite they shew to the blessed Sacrifice of Christe speaking indefinitely of the Protestantes and Sacramentaries of our time And why may I not resonably cal their spite against the Sacrifice a Deuilish spite sithence Luther was taught it of the Deuil him selfe by a night coÌ„ference with him as the wil of God was See the Preface before my secoÌ„d Reioindr Fol. 34. b. he should confesse it in open writing him selfe Whereof I speake in my preface before my last Reioindre there setting forth the same famous Disputation betwen the Deuil and Luther out of Luthers own boke The seconde note of bitter wordes that M. Iewel layeth to my charge is this Your Deuilish vvickednes But where found he these three wordes His cotation is this Reioinder Preface to the Reader But what if I haue vttered no such peece of sentence in al that Preface True it is Reader I haue no such saying there in deede If thou wouldst faine saue M. Iewels honestie and trie the truth peruse that whole Preface if thou find it there let it be blowen abrode that he belieth me not in this point though he haue so done in many other If thou finde it not geue vs leaue to say as truth is that for lacke of good matter against the Catholike Doctrine he deuiseth of his owne head slaunderous Lyes against his Aduersarie Whiche is the common practise of them whose cause is naughte And why hath he put this note in the second place O it had ben a fowle crase to his worship being suche a famous Minister of the worde as he is to haue begonne this new deuise with a flatte lye And thereof was he not ignorant And for that cause he placed the other Note before this whereas folowing order he should haue placed this before that For
696. Your Louanian Logique 650. Your poore Lauanian brethren 623. One of your late English Doctours of Louaine 183. Your late Couente at Trident. 28. 43. Your late Conuentcle of Trident. 606. 619. 627. 630. Monkes are waxen nice and crancke 624. VVe must suppose they sate mute in a mummerie 627. I maruel there is not some Patriarke from Sodom and Gomorra 713. A mystical folie of folies 515. Your Captaine general Albertus Pighius 498. Canonistes the Popes Pages of honour 530. Your listes and gaineful territories of Purgatorie 537. It pitieth me M. Harding to see you so vainely to bestow your spiritual cogitations 512. Your spiritual Clergie M. Harding is nothing els but a spiritual filthinesse 513. This is a lusty kinde of Diuinitie 599. Ful wisely 610. Sadly and sagely and wel to the purpose 612. O worthy and graue reasons 613. A discrete and worthy Proctour 621. A sage exposition 181. In Margine One pange of your Eloquence 552. As for lies shames and slaunders c. If ye be ful freight yet ye maie diuide them among your poore Louanian brethren It shal be a worke of Supererogation For ywisse they haue yenough alreadie 623. This is no doubte the holinesse that Christe brought into the worlde 625. O profounde diuinitie 626. A wise piece of counsel and meete for a Doctor of Diuinitie 631. Had you not had a shrewd sharpe witte M. Harding c. 630. Alas M. Harding although ye litle passe for your Diuinitie yet why haue ye no more regarde vnto your Logique 622. It pitieth me M. Harding to see your folies 623. O glorious Thraso 640. A worthy Argument and ful wisely applied 477. VVith what cement can ye make these seely loose partes to cleaue together 637. Ful Discretely 647. Discretely reasoned Your priestly Conclusions 653. Thus ye fetche your matter round within without and round aboute 659. Your maie Bishoppes otherwise by you called Nullatenses 664. Ye fil the howse ful with Patriarkes of Constantinople c. 668. Your Popes by their omnipotent power maie minister Sacramentes being dead 669. The Emperours in Councelles helde their peace and tolde the clocke and said nothing 677. Ye thincke no colour to deere to paint out the Popes face 695. Here we haue founde a Pope with two capacitieâ— 724. The Pope succeedeth Peter in his chaire as if Peter had benne sometimes enstalled in Rome and had sate solemnely al daie with his triple crowne in his Pontificalibus in a chaire of goulde 726. Al these matters be ful solemnely proued and are worthie to be published by Proclamation 414. Al this is Hicke Scorners Eloquence 356. Here if thou be not weary of this Lothsome gheare gentle Reader thou maist also see with what sober modeste and learned Notes M. Iewel hath painteâ— the margent of his Booke where so euer he laith foorth some Maimed peeces of my Confutation Maimed peeces I maie cal them for seldom or rather no where hath he suffered any discourse of mine to be printed in his Booke whole vnmaimed and vnmangled In these Notes thou hast the substance of his answeres For if thou marke what he bringeth in his texte besides and discusse it exactly thou shal finde specially where any part of Doctrine is touched that it perteineth very litle or nothing to the point presently treated M. Iewelles sober and modeste Marginal Notes vpon the Confutation Vntruthe boldely presumed 96. 238. Manifest and meere vntruthes 105. Vntruth most vaine and manifest 107. Vntruth impudent aboue measure 109. 512. Vntruth vaine and Childish 114. 202. 610. 683. A vaine vntruth 126. 245. An odious vntruth 127. Vntruth ioyned with vaine follie 135. A great vntruth ioyned with a sclaunder 146. Vntruth fond and childish 191. 254. 611. Vntruth ioined with heathenisse blasphemies 207. Vntruth proceeding of vnaduised malice 211. Vntruth ioined with grosse ignorance 215. Vntruth ioined with sclaunder and malice 219. Vntruth sclaunderous 219. 626. Vntruth and one of M. Hardinges mystical Dreames 219. Vntruth horrible and heathnish Ibidem Vntruth so sensible and so grosse that a man maie feele it with his fingers 228. Vntruth blasphemous and horrible 297. A peeuish vntruth 250. Vntruth trifling and sophistical 255. Vntruth shamelesse and without sense 258. Vntruth vaine and arrogant 261. Vntruth grounded vpon meere folie 262. Vntruth grounded vpon a dreame 266. Vntruth childish and vnsauery 267. Vntruth guilefully enclosed 278. 662. Vntruth vile and sclaunderous 281. Vntruthes and most fond and blasphemous folies 291. Vntruth fonde and heathnish 291. Vntruth proceding of vaine dotage 311. Vntruth ioined with vile sclaunder 335. A vile vntruth 368. Vntruth malicious and sclaunderous 393. 433. Nothing elles but meere vntruthes 393. Vntruth fonde and peuish 400. 513. 515. Vntruth too vaine for a childe 400. Vntruth ioined with open folie 402. A great vntruth and a shamelesse fable 411. Vntruth euident to a childe 424. Vntruth grownded vpon grosse ignorance 439. Vntruth manifest without witte 449. Vntruth more peuish then the former 449. Vntruth vtterly voide of shame 449. Vntruthes impudent 494. 661. Vntruth so impudent that I marueil M. Harding can report it without blushing 513. Vntruth vndiscrete and impudent 532. A whole heape of vntruthes and forgeries hudled together 537. Vntruth without either measure or regarde of shame 55â— 7â—9 Vntruthes ioined with open blasphemie 551. Vntruth without any sauour of witte and learning 613. Vntruth most impudent 626. Vntruth shamelesse without measure 68â— Vntruth ioined with impudent flatterie and extreme folie M. Iewelles Outcries bitter and scoffinge Oos O folie 90. 124. 250. 550. O Dangerous Doctrine 136. O merueilous horrible heresie 207. O fonde folie 245. 610. O exact folie 250. O fonde grosnesse 278. O braue Captaine 281. O earthly Diuinitie 284. O so careful this good man is for our cares 303. O graue commentarie and a wise matter c. 303. O when wil M. Harding confesse a faulte 311. O a faire bonegrace 382. O vaine brauerie 390. O natural folie 396. O graue consideration 424. O vaine excuse 506. O fonde man 546. O so merelie this man plaieth with his phantasie 578. O worthy and great reasons 613. O profound Diuinitie 626. O glorious Thraso 640. O vanitie of vanities 647. O folie of folies 673. O vaine man 687. O ye principal Postes of religion O ye Archegouernours 469 Alas they haue it not 290. I leaue mo then I take of these flowers gentle Reader How pleasant the shewe of these fewe is vnto thine eie I know not Verely had not M. Iewel driuen me vnto this practise by his example I should not haue liked the Deuise Now if it offende thee blame not mine but M Iewelles Inuention I thought suche debte could not be better answered then by paiment of the same money By this thou maiest iudge what stuffe in that huge Booke is pacte together Answere to M. Iewelles View of Vntruthes that is to sale he pretensed Defence of suche Vntruthes as he thought him selfe best hable to â—ustifie with whiche he is truly
charged and of whiche he hath not yet discharged him selfe The 4. Chapter AFter his heape of sharpe wordes partly forged by him selfe partly called out of my writinges and laid together as it were in a Table whiche seeme to him and to his brethren so muche irksome how muche their conscience is gilty he setteth forth in an other Table as it were certaine Vntruthes to the number of 31. whiche he founde among many moe noted against him in my first Reioinder and in my Confutation of the Apologie This Table he calleth M. Ievvels intent in setting forth the Vievv of his Vntruthes A Viewe of Vntruthes His intent and meaning is by the View of these fewe Vntruthes which he hath chosen out as the leaste among the whole number to purchase him selfe a Defence or at least waie some excuse for the reste For faine would he al menne to be persuaded that the reste noted by me and by others who haue confuted his errours and detected his manifold falshoode are of no greater weight then these are What and how great the reste are they maie see who liste to reade our bookes in which they be truly set forth How vnhable he is to iustifie them it shal appeare by that he hath said in the Viewe For if he be not hable to discharge him selfe of these one and thirty the leaste how shal he be hable to acquitte him self of a thousand and moe of greater weight scoared vp against him by those that haue written but vpoÌ„ fiue of his six and twentie Articles First 〈◊〉 layeth forth .15 Vntruthes which among many moe in my Râ—ioinder I noted against him out of his Replie to the first Article The first nyne he is driuen to acknowledge For he hath said nothing in their defence If he wil saie they be but smal Vntruthes and therefore not worthy of any thing to be said of them it may be replied they are too great to be vttered so neare together M. Ievvel is rife of Vntruthes in the very beginniÌ„g of his Replie For the first six Vntruthes be within the compasse of 12. lines in the beginning of his Replie It were strange that six great Vntruthes should be vttered within so fewe lines in the beginning of a booke For them that can not defende a matter but with great lyes it is the beste policie to beginne with smaller lyes For elles they should marre altogether This circumstance considered Vntruthes must needes seeme bothe many and great Briefly the whole fifteen Vntruthes noted out of the Replie be founde in his first Diuision that is to saie within lesse then thrise fifteen lines It were very il lucke if they should be proued al to be great and weightie Vntruthes in the first entrie of the booke and that within so litle space There was neuer any Writer so vaine or false The. 10. Vntruth Beno and VspergeÌ„sis parcially holding with the Emperour not to be beleeued against Gregorie the. 7. that sowed Vntruthes so thicke specially in the beginning of a Treatie The first nyne then being confessed to be Vntruthes vndischargeable let vs see how substancially he dischargeth him selfe of the six other It is reported saith he of Pope Hildebrand so he calleth Gregorie the seuenth that he wrought Necromancie and Sorcerie This noted I for an Vntruth saying it is not reported by any graue and true writer but by them that flattered the Emperour of that time To this he maketh a Replie This storie saith he is largely set out by Beno and Vrspergensis These be they whose witnesse I refused before as being the Emperours flatterers and bearing malice to the Pope and therfore ouer parcial to beare credite in that case Gregorie the seuenth How farre this worthy man Gregorie the seuenth was from exercising Necromancie or Sorcerie and from other vices it is largely declared by the best writers of stories of that age namely by Marianus Scotus by Lambertus Schafuaburgensis and Leo Hostiensis and specially by Otho Frisingensis and of late by Platina and Onuphrius Panuinus Furthermore Beno can not beare great credite with vs as he that is condemned by Ecclesiastical censure Vrspergensis set out by MelanchthoÌ„ only The. 11. Vntruth As for Vrspergensis he is worthily suspected to be corrupted by your felowes of Germanie among whom he was set out in printe by Philip MelanchthoÌ„ and not els Item Henrie the Emperour was poisoned in the Communion breade saith M. Iewel Vntruthe say I He was not poisoned but died otherwise For proufe he replieth and allegeth Vrspergensis Likewise Auentinus and besides Baptista Ignatius the writer of Supplementum Chronicorum Rauisius Textor the GraÌ„marian and Carion writers of our time and some of them of litle credite Neither in suche a case maketh the nuÌ„ber of writers any ArgumeÌ„t of truthe For the afterwriters being deceiued by the Vntruthe of the first writer be they neuer so many in number caÌ„not make true Henrie of Luxemburg hovv he dyed Lib. 8. that whiche was vntruly reported at the first Touching the Death of this Emperour who was Henrie of Luxemburg Paulus Aemylius a graue and a learned man who hath examined this mater to the vttermost writeth that he died of a sickenes whiche he fel into at Bonconuento in the territorie of Siena in Tuskane being come thither from Pisa The same writeth * In scholijs in Platinam Onophrius That he should be poisoned in receiuing the Sacrament by meanes of a Dominican Frier Cornelius Cornepolita seemeth to esteme it for a fable or to make the best of it for a matter of a heare saie By that which * In Chronographia The .12 Vntruth Victors Death Nauclerus writeth therof it appeareth to be no better then a fained tale Item Pope victor was poisoned in the Chalice saith M. Iewel This noted I for an Vntruth and said he died otherwise To this he replieth and for his saying allegeth Martinus Polonus that vaine fabler the first author of the fabulous Popedom of Pope Ioan the woman he nameth certaine other of our age some being as very enemies to the Catholike Church as he him selfe is namely Anselmus Rid Anselmus Rid. a ProtestaÌ„t of Berna whom we beleue in such a mater no more then we beleue M. Iewel For such menne be very ready to set out in bookes any thing wherby the estimatioÌ„ of our diuine Mysteries may be impaired in the iudgement of light heads be it neuer so vntrue Concerning Pope Victors death VinceÌ„tius Vincentius BellouaceÌ„ as good an Author as Martinus Polonus and a man of muche greater learning writeth that he died of a Dysenterie and so Platina reciteth In these three Vntruthes M. Iewel hath some colour of a defence bicause the writers of the Stories doo varie And he liketh that report best that is most fabulous and vaine and teÌ„deth to the coÌ„tempt of the Pope and of the blessed Sacrament Suche stuffe is precious in his sight Thus it is cleare that he
M. Iewel in his Defence goeth about to proue with many testimonies to no purpose I denie not Pag. 227. ne neuer denied but this specâ—â—â— Decâ—â—â— of Anacletus iâ—â—â— be 〈…〉 of thâ— Clergie onely Anacletus in prima Epistola Decretali that attendâ—â— vpon the Bishop as the Circumstance of the place in thâ— Epistle of Anacletus showeth This is to be sene in my Confutation fol. 9â— a. To this M. Iewel replieth and saith Here M. Harding is soone reproued euen by his owne Dectours Darandus Hugo Cochlaus Clichthâ—ueus For thus they saie Omnes olim tum Sacerdotes tum Laici cum sacrificante communicabant c. Hiâ— vnum de hae re Canonem recitâ—bo qui Calixto â—scribitur Hereto I answer If I saie otherwise touching this point then these whom M. Iewel calleth myne owne Doctours haue said therein I am gainesaid it wil not folow that I am reproued Dâ—randus and Hugo say nothing that is contrary to my vnderstanding of Anacletus Decree As for Coclaeus and Clichthoueus menne of our tyme what if they tooke it otherwise then I doo That is their Priuate sense It foloweth not thereof that I am deceiued That Anacletâ—â— Decree touching the necessitie of Communion to be receiued perteineth onâ—y to the Clergie Nicol. Cusanus epi. 7. ad Clerum literatos Bohemia Degradentur I haue good cause rather to beleeue Cardinal Cusanus who semeth to haue examined this Decree farther and more exactly thâ—n these two late writers haue done For thus he reciteth the Later parte of the Decree as it is in the Original out of Burchardus Sic enim Apostoli statuerunt sancta Romanae tenet Ecclesia si hoc neglexerint degâ—adentur Let al communicate that were present at the Consecration saith the Decree for so the Apostles haue ordeined and so the holy Romaine Curche holdeth and if they omitte it by contempte lette them be degraded or deposed from their Degree Cusanus willeth the worde Degradentur Degradentur to be weighed and thereof gathereth that the Decree speaketh only of them of the Clergie that were present at the Consecration and were admitted into Sancta Sanctorum the holy place where none came but such as were in Ecclesiastical Orders 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is to say of the Clergie as they are called in the. 9. Canon among the Canons of the Apostles whereunto the Decree maketh relation Hereof I haue spoken sufficiently beside the place of my Confutation aboue mencioned in my first Reionder fol. 220. a. and againe fol. 308. a. Thus you remaine stil charged with this Vntruthe For it is not inough to say what is written but to discerne what is best written M. Ievvel The Apologie Parte 2. cap. 8. Diuis 2. Gregorius Nazianzenus saith speaking of his owne Father The .3 Vntruth that a good and a diligent Bishop doth serue in the Ministerie neuer the woorse for that he is married but rather the better Here I tolde M. Iewel that he vsed his accustomed Figure Pseudologia whiche is as muche to say as lying in plaine Englishe For in deede he neuer saied it And so muche doo I tel him here once againe But lette vs consider of his Replie wherein he seemeth to plaie the parte of a woorse Lyer then before Thus he saith An vntruth proceding of grosse ignoraÌ„ce or of great impudencie This errour of M. Hardinges grewe of ignorance For Nazianzenes wordes be very plaine Meo Patri Mater mea c. My Mother being geuen to my Father of God became not onely his helper for that had benne no great woonder but also was his leader and Captaine both by worde and by deede trayning him vnto the beste In Religion and godlines she doubted not to becomme his Maistresse Nazianzenus in Epitaphio patris The faithful vvoman trauailed vvith her vnfaithful husband to bring him vnto the Faith she did not so after that he vvas made Bisshop August Confess li. 9. cap. 9. Al this and muche more vttered by the learned sonne of his godly Mother is to be vnderstanded of the time when his father was an Infidel She being a Christian woman and comme of a Christian stocke being married vnto her husband remaining yet without beleefe in Christe vsed al the good meanes of a helper guide leader schoolemaistresse and teacher to induce him vnto the Faith Whiche thing by Goddes grace at length she perfourmed as the holy wooman Monica S. Augustines mother did likewise in winning Patricius her husband vnto the Faith of Christe not long before he died as S. Augustine witnesseth But that euer she tooke vpon her so to teache him after that he was chosen Bisshoppe of Nazianzum for that M. Iewel is not hable to shewe vs so muche as one woorde or halfe woorde and yet that doth he constantly affirme in his pretensed Defence In the Defence page 178. This being so what maketh it to the iustification of his Vntruthe It may please thee good Reader to peruse that I say of this hereafter where I treate of it at large and confute this impudent Vntruthe of M. Iewels thoroughly Confutation fol. 76. in sequent Howbeit I confuted the same also sufficiently in my Confutation of the Apologie M. Ievvel The Apologie Parte 6. cap. 5. Diuis 2. Pope Liberius saith he was a fauourer of the Arian Heretiques The 4. Vntruth That he was a fauourer of the Arians it is vtterly vntrue saie I. And it were not harde if I were desirous to furnish foorth a greate Booke with heapes of Doctours sayinges as M. Iewel is to allege very muche to the contrarie and in his Defence that he was a man of great constancie and neuer bare sauour towarde the mainteiners of that horrible heresie The contrarie appeareth by that Theodoritus writeth of him Libro Ecclesiasticae Historiae 2. cap. 17. Athanasius in Apologia saith he was bannished for that he would not subscribe vnto the Arian Heresie Tripart Lib. 5. cap. 16. M. Iewels Replie hereto is this The Authour hereof is S. Hierome de Ecclesiasticis Scriptoribus in Fortunatiano And one of M. Hardinges owne principal Doctours saith De Liberio Papa constat fuisse Arianum That Pope Liberius was no fauourer of the Arians Here haue we twoo newe Vntruthes added vnto the old Marke Reader what is that M. Iewel affirmeth and that I denie It is this that Pope Liberius was a fauourer of the Arian Heretiques S. Hierome in the place by M. Iewel alleged saieth not that Liberius was a fauourer of the Arians but that by the importunitie of Fortunatianus Bisshop of Aquileia Hieron in Catalogo ScriptoruÌ„ Eccl. 107. he was compelled to subscribe vnto Heresie as he was going into bannishment for the Faith Pro Fide ad exilium pergentem primus solicitauit ac fregit ad subscriptionem haereseos compulit saieth S. Hierome if these were his his owne woordes and not woordes added vnto him by Heretiques as
is newly falsified saie I by nipping of wordes from the sentēce that be of great importance and quite contrarie to that M. Iewel intendeth For the whole Decree hath these wordes Concil Cartag 3. Cap. 47. Placuit vt praeter Scripturas Canonicas nihil in Ecclesia legatur sub nomine diuinarum scripturarum It hath benne thought good that nothing be readde in the Churche vnder the name of the holy Scriptures beside the Canonical Scriptures It foloweth in the same Decree Let it be lawful also for the Martyrdomes of Martyrs to be read when their yerely Feastes are kepte This Vntruthe M. Iewel by no shifte is hable to excuse What he bringeth in his Replie out of the Abbridgement of the Councel of Hippo made in the third Councel of Carthage is to no purpose For though the Abbridgement saie that praeter Scripturas alia non legantur other thinges be not readde in the Churche beside the Scriptures yet how that is to be vnderstanded it is supplied by the Decree of the third Coūcel of Carthage by those wordes sub nomine diuinarum scripturarum So that M. Iewel maie looke to finde no better reliefe in the Councel of Hippo Abbridged then he founde in that Councel of Carthage See my Confutation of the Apologie Fol. 243. a. The. 15. Vntruth The 15. Vntruth of the Apologie which M. Iewel goeth about to make good standeth altogether vpon a point of the Canon lawe in what case the Pope committeth Simonie I alleged summa Angelica He in his Repli◠saith I vnderstande not my Summa Bicause the discussion hereof nequireth a large processe and is not very necessarie in it selfe nor perteineth specially to our profession I leaue it to M. Iewelles great lawier to treate of it to the most aduantage if he haue so muche leisure as to thinke hereof being him selfe muche encombred poore man with matters of the law about his two wiues not being yet determined whiche of them he maie kepe stil whiche he maie turne awaie Ye should do wel to amend that disorder M. Iewel Touching the. 16. Vntruth The. 16. Vntruth I neede to saie litle It pleased M Iewel of his owne humilitie to acknowledge an errour whiche I laid not vnto his charge Certainely whiles he goeth about to trie him selfe a true man he ladeth him selfe with a more huge burden of Vntruthes and maketh al menne that wil lose their time in reading his bookes witnesses how when falsehed is attempted to be defended lying and falsehed is farther multiplied By experience of M. Iewels writinges this muche I finde VVhat it is to confute M. Ievvels vvritinges that to confute him is no more but to saie where he saith ought of his owne that either al is false or light scoffing stuffe or otherwise vaine where he bringeth the sayinges of other menne wherewith in manner only his bookes be farced that either muche is true but impertinent nor by the Catholiques denied the reste false as alleged out of Heretiques or at lest in some parte aduersaries vnto the vnitie of the Churche as Bale Illyricus Iacobus Andreae Sleidan Cassander Lorichius and suche others or by M. Iewels common sleightes falsified and corrupted and wrested to an vndue sense or otherwise not very material vnprofitable and not worth the answering This shal he finde to be most true who soeuer wil examine the thinges he setteth forth as I haue If he mingled some true discourses with his other vntrue extrauagantes as other Heretikes cōmonly haue done our labour of answering should be lesse Now his vntruthes and impudent Lies be so many that to confute al it were labour bothe infinite to the writer and vnprofitable to the reader Towardes the ende of the View of his Vntruthes at last in a great brauerie he concludeth with the wordes of S. Paule tanquà m seductores ecce veraces 2. Cor. 6. We are saith he called Deceiuers and yet we saie the truth But how truly this boaste is made the Defence of these fewe his Vntruthes by me now answered doth sufficiently witnesse How be it here at length the man remembring him selfe better In the Defence B. iij. a. b. beginneth to take some conscience of the matter and protesteth that he wil not so warrant euery parcel of any his writing as though there were nothing therein conteined that might safely be iustified in al respectes What is that then wherein he acknowlegeth him selfe to haue done vntruly Let vs see how muche and how great it is for by that we shal take a View of his sinceritie and of his humilitie O saith he The errours that M. Ievvel maie be induced to acknovvledge in him selfe If I haue at any time marke this if I haue Reader for neither this muche wil he confesse simply mistaken Authour for Authour or name for name or Chapter for Chapter or booke for booke or any one Father or Doctour for an other suche erroures were neuer hitherto accompted damnable Yea the best learned haue oftentimes fallen into them Doest thou not see reader what great errours and ouersightes this man with his If confesseth to be in his writing As though we found that onely faulte in him whiche maie happen to any writer by ouersight be he neuer so diligent and not other great Vntruthes corruptions falsifyinges lyes and sclaunders that by no colour can be excused What many of them be hereafter thou shalt see in this processe August in Psal 33. Cōcione 1. The great faultes that M. Ievvel findeth in my bookes Now to requitte me he laieth certaine great crimes to my charge As that in alleging this saying of S. Augustine Christus ferebatur in manibus suis I leafte out as he saith this worde quodammodo That in an allegation I name Iosue for Osee that there is founde in the margent of my booke where Socrates is alleged lib. 8. whiche faulte was the printers whereas Socrates neuer wrote but 7. bookes Item that in the margent the printer hath put Luc. 2. for Luc. 22. and in the texte 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with whiche ouersightes I maie reasonably and truly charge the Printers Compositours and discharge my selfe for at al times I attende not vpon the printe my selfe and though I had yet suche smal faultes might wel haue escaped me though I had as many eyes as the poetes feine of Argus So of myne owne accorde I confesse whereat M. Iewel maketh no litle adoo as thoughe it were a hainous offence that where I speake of Henrie the fourth Emperour and his sonne Henrie the fifth the compositour by ouersight and negligence hath sette for Henrie the sonne against Henrie the fourth Henrie the seconde against Henrie the fourth For in that place See the Defence pag. 418. See the Confutat fol. 187. b. M. Ievvel in the Vievv of Vntruthes B. 3. b whereas M. Iewel demaundeth this question Who put in armes the Sonne against the Emperour his Father Henrie the fourh I answer in
of your secte of whom you saie they see suche a light as vnder the Pope the worlde sawe not Of this it foloweth that the time then was in whiche Christe was not with you And so euery waie if Christes worde be true yours must be false M. Ievvel obiecteth agaiÌ„st the Churche as the old heretikes the Donatistes did But marke wel gentle Reader that whiche I wil now declare vnto thee M. Iewels obiectioÌ„ against the Church is the very olde obiection of the Donatistes For as M. Iewel saith here that it were to muche for vs hauing broken Gods commaundement c. yet neuerthelesse to binde Christe to his promise whiche was that his Church should continewe for euer and haue the Spirite of Truthe alwaies remaining in it So the Donatistes said ideo ex partibus terrarum August lib. 1. ca. 2 contra Epistol Parmen in quibus iam impletum erat perijsse Abraha semen quod est Christus euacuatas promissiones Dei quia ipsi non sunt admissi ad eorum communionem apud quos hoc iam retinebat orbis impletum That therefore the seede of AbrahaÌ„ that is Christ had perished froÌ„ out of other partes of the world where it had ben already fulfilled and therfore the promises of God touching the continuance of Christ with his Church to the worldes ende were made voide bicause they the Donatistes were not admitted to the Communion of those Christians in Fraunce Italie Spaine and other Christian Countries among whom the worlde kepte this promise of Christe already fulfilled They said the promise of Christes continuance was broken bicause al the other partes of the worlde besides and out of Africa communicated with Cecilianus and his successours whom they accused for * Traditores Deliuerers vp of the Scriptures in time of persecution and therefore accompted them for no parte of Christes Churche and refused to communicate with them euen as M. Iewel saith here that for our euil doinges Christe was not bound to his promise This obiection of the Donatistes seemed to a learned man of their owne secte Ticonius Ticonius by name vnreasonable and insufficient And therefore he wrote a booke of that matter to wit that the promises of God in the Scriptures for the continuance of his Churche vniuersally spred through the worlde could not possibly be broken through any wickednes of man or menne what soeuer This to be so S. Augustine witnesseth saying August li. 1. contra epist parmen ca. 1. Ticonius homo quidem acri ingenio praeditus vberi eloquio sed tamen Donatista omnibus sanctarum paginarum vocibus circumtusus euigilauit vidit Ecclesiam Dei toto orbe diffusam sicut de illo tanto antè per corda ora sanctorum praeuisum atque praedictum est Quo percepto suscepit aduersus ipsos suos demonstrare asserere nullius hominis quamuis sceleratum immane peccatum praescribere promissis Dei nec id agere quorumlibet intra Ecclesiam coÌ„stitutoruÌ„ quamlibet impietatem vt fides Dei de Ecclesiasâ—tura diffundenda vsque ad terminos orbis terra quae in promissis patruÌ„ retenta nunc exhibita est euacuaretur Ticonius a man endewed with a sharpe wit and with tongue at wil but yet a Donatist knockt vp on euery side with al the sayinges of the Bible waked out of slepe and saw the Church of God spred ouer al the worlde as thereof so loÌ„g time before by the hartes and by the mouthes of Saintes it was foresene and foretolde Which thing hauing perceiued he toke in hand against them of his own fide euideÌ„tly to shew and affirme that no mannes sinne being neuer so wicked and passing great doth prescribe against the promises of God and that no manner impietie of any what soeuer that be placed in the Church doth bring this to passe that the promise of God shuld be made void touching the Churche to come and to be spred abrode vnto the borders of the round world which promise was coÌ„tinued in the promises made to the Fathers of the old testameÌ„t and is now come to perfourmance Thus then wrote Ticonius the Donatiste being forced thereto by the very cleare euidence of holy Scripture Parmenianus an other Donatist foreseing as S. Augustin writeth that if the persuasion of Ticonius toke place then he and his felowes which did not coÌ„municate with the whole corps of Christendom should be no part of al the Catholik Church Dioscorde betvven the Gospellers as in olde time among the Donatistes so vniuersally dispersed and so being out of the Church should stand for Heretiques wrote first an epistle against this Ticonius and when that would not suffise procured him to be openly condeÌ„ned in a CouÌ„cel of their owne sect Euen as at this day the Lutherans write against the Sacramentaries as Westphalus against Caluine Brentius against Bullinger Illyricus against Beza Peter Martyr against BreÌ„tius Heshusius against Boquine condemning one the other al being protestants or rather as they wil be named Gospellers Against the foresaid Epistle of Parmenianus written as I said against Ticonius S. Augustin wrote three bookes learnedly defending the Scriptures alleged by Ticonius to proue that no impietie of men what soeuer and how great soeuer it were can possibly be hable to driue Christ to breache of his promise concerning the perpetuitie of his Churche in many Nations and the assistence of the holy Ghost therein You therefore M. Iewel that thinke it much for vs to claime by the promise of Christe bicause by our wretchednes he should no more be bound to his promise The Donatistes Heresie renevved by M. Ievvel do plainely renewe the wicked and detestable opinion of the Donatist Parmenian whom S. Augustine so largely confuteth I remitte the learned to the said worke of S. Augustine specially to the second booke The vnlearned I remitte to a late writteÌ„ Treatise intituled The Fortresse The Fortresse annexed to the historie of Venerable Bede translated into Englishe where he shal finde suche scriptures as proue an vniuersal and knowen continuance of Christes Churche largely laied forth and prosecuted out of the Psalmes the Prophetes and the new testament To be short therefore An Argument prouing this nevv Congregation not to be the true Churche of Christ I frame you once againe this argumeÌ„t The true Church of Christ is such a multitude as hath had euermore in al ages and times Christe present and the Spirit of truth remaining with it Your Congregation is such as was not extant in the earth many hundred yeres together before Luther was borne and therefore can not be said to haue had that presence of Christ Ergo your Congregation is not the true Church of Christ The Maior is euident by Christes owne promise and by your owne Confession The Minor you confesse also both in your Apologie and in this pretensed Defence as I said before The Conclusion therefore remaineth
vndoubted To this one argument M. Iewel you shal neuer be hable to answere truely and directly You adde yet farther Christe wil be euermore with his Churche yea though the whole Churche of Rome conspire against him It is true M. Iewel And therefore this being a matter impossible that the whole Churche of Rome should be hable to deface Christes Gospel or to defeate Christ of his promise it must needes folow that where you say the Pope hath blinded the whole worlde you haue said most vntruly and haue auouched that thing which by your owne confession in this place was not possible to be done Againe seing that though the whole Churche of Rome conspired against Christe yet Christe wil be euermore with his Churche and these many hundred yeres Christ hath had no other Churche then the Churche of Rome for the Pope you say hath blinded the whole worlde and D. Luther began to publish the Gospel a general darkenesse going before it must needes folowe that the same Church of Rome was the true Church of Christ that the said Church neuer coÌ„spired against Christ that the Pope neuer blinded nor was euer hable to blinde the whole worlde briefely that the same whiche you cal blindnesse was good sight and that which you cal darkenesse was cleare light Verely either so must it be or Christes promise must faile Of the which promise of Christ and of a number of other sayinges in the Psalmes in the Prophetes and in the Gospel affirming and confirming the same it hath ben largely and sufficiently treated in the foresaid Treatise intituled The Fortresse of our first Faith annexed to the Historie of venerable Bede of late translated into Englishe If you M. Iewel or any of your fellowes wil auoide this argument that proueth a knowen continuance of Christes Church answer to the first parte of that booke If you can not auoide that one Argument your newe doctrine is plainely proued to be false and heretical and the Faith of our Forefathers is plainely proued to be the Faith of the true and onely Catholike Churche of Christe in earth You pretende as if ye had aduantage for that I spake but of a thousand yeres For thus you inferre Iewel ibidem Pag. 32. But vvhy do you so much abate your reckening VVhy make you not vp your ful accompte of fifteene hundred three skore and sixe yeres as ye vvere vvont to doo Ye haue here liberally and of your selfe quite striken of fiue hundred three skore and sixe yeres Harding That we haue not striken of the first fiue hundred yeres as M. Iewel cauilleth You say vntruly M. Iewel The. 8. Chapt. I haue not striken of the first fiue hundred yeres c. But I and others doo God be praised defende and mainteine the Catholique Faithe no lesse by the Doctours and witnesses of the first fiue hundred yeres then by the Doctours and Witnesses of these last thousand yeres Yea Sir it is wel knowen to them that haue perused bothe our labours that you allege moe writers of these later ages by ten to one then either we doo of the same or your selfe doo of the first fiue hundred yeres It is wel knowen our writinges are confirmed with the authoritie of the Fathers of the firste fiue hundred yeres We allege very seldome the writers of these later ages condescending herein to your infirmities whiche through weakenes of Faith doo reiecte these later Fathers as too yonge and require to be persuaded onely by the Doctours and Councelles of the first sixe hundred yeres And herein we doo willingly omitte the greate aduantage whiche we might haue if we should presse you with the Writers of these later ages This is wel knowen M. Iewel to al that knowe any thing in matters of these common controuersies We haue Gods holy name be blessed largely and aboundantly prooued the Reall Presence the Sacrifice of the Masse the Popes Primacie the vse of Images the Confession of sinnes to the Prieste the Inuocation of Saintes the Praying for the dead the Churche seruice in the two learned tongues Greeke and Latine and such other matters by you nowe brought into Controuersie we haue sufficiently prooued them I saye by the Doctours and Councels of the first sixe hundred yeres wittingly and willingly a very fewe places excepted absteining from the Writers of these last thousand yeres not bicause we refuse them or contemne them but bicause ye refuse them that we might seeme to vse the better meanes to persuade you whose couersion we seeke and labour for You say therefore vntruly that I haue liberally of my selfe quite striken of fiue hundred yeres c. The cause why I named but these last thousand yeres your selfe I am sure are not ignorant of But so it liked you to dallye and to answer a most earnest and important question with trifling toyes cauilles and wranglinges It was your exception M. Iewel and prescription of the first sixe hundred yeres It was your lewde contempte of these later ages It was your blasphemous assertion condemning the Churche of Christe so many hundred yeres of Idolatrie superstition and palpable darckenes which made me to chalenge you with Christes promise for the Continuance of his Churche these last thousand yeres If you denie this to be your opinion of the last thousand yeres beside your prescription insinuating no lesse of the nine hundred beside your former wordes of Luthers first publishing of the Gospel for so you terme your wicked Heresies your owne wordes in this place doo signifie no lesse For thus you saie euen in this page Iewel Verely in the iudgement of the Godly fiue hundred of those first yeres are more vvorthe then the vvhole thousand yeres that folovved aftervvarde Harding This comparison is odious The commendatioÌ„ of the first fiue hundred yeres in comparison of the later ages and litle becommeth a ChristiaÌ„ maÌ„ If you speake of learning and vertue though the comparison be odious yet is it more tolerable For learning and vertue may seeme to haue excelled more in those former ages then in these later specially vertue and holines of life when as the bloude that Chriâ—â— shed for redemption of the worlde seemed to mennâ—â— hartes yet fresh and warme as in a place S. Augustine writeth And therefore those tymes brought foorth moe Martyrs As touching learning it muste also be confessed that moe Doctours in both tongues then excelled The north partes of the world coÌ„uerted in these later ages This without preiudice to the learned Bishoppes and Godly people of Christendom in so longe a time afterwarde might perhappes to the commendation of Antiquitie be graunted Howbeit it is not vnknowen to the learned that in these later thousand yeres the Northe partes of the worlde being many large and sauage Countries haue benne brought to the faith of Christe many Bishoppes and Monkes of excellent learning and of great perfection of life haue flourished many Martyrs also haue suffred as al histories and Chronographies doo
to the General Councelles thinke good to make menne beleue that the General Councels haue yeelded to you Pride and humilitie maketh a cleare difference betwen the citie of God and the citie of the Deuil Iewel Pag. 43. VVhere you saie that Bishoppes onely haue Sentence definitiue in the Councel ye seeme vvillingly and vvithout cause to reporte vntruthe VVheÌ„ he vvrote that he vvas neither Pius secundus nor Pope but a priuate maÌ„ Aeneas Syluius de gestis CoÌ„cilij ConstaÌ„t lib. 1. False traÌ„slatioÌ„ Apparet in this place signifieth not it is plaine but it appeareth IohaÌ„ Gerson Quae veritates credendae Corol. 4. The 13. Chapt. For Pius Secundus * being him selfe a Pope vvould haue tolde you the contrarie These be his vvordes Apparet alios quam Episcopos in Concilijs habuisse vocem decidentem * It is plaine that certaine others beside Bishoppes had voice definitiue in the Councelles Likevvise Iohn Gerson Etiam ad laicos hoc potest extendi plus aliquando quà m ad multos Clericorum This priuiledge of geuing sentence in Councel maie be extended euen vnto the laie sorte yea and that oftentimes better then vnto many priestes Harding That in Councelles Bishoppes onely haue sentence definitiue the obiections of Pius 2. and Gerson answered Neither willingly nor without cause nor vntruth Not willingly For I came to speake of this point by occasion of your Apologie complaning that you had no audience in the General Councel at Trente Not without cause For that being true as I shal anone proue it to be true that onâ—ly Bishoppes haue Sentence definitiue in the Councel ye being no Bishoppes at al for geuing SenteÌ„ce definitiue there is no place for you which greueth you ful sore For faine would ye once sitte in General CouÌ„cel as the Masters and Superintendentes of al Christendome Not Vntruthe For it is euident by the auncient practise of the primitiue Churche that in al Councelles Only Bishops at Councels subscribe definitiuely only Bishoppes haue subscribed definitiuely The tenour of al General Councelles yet extant is a cleare witnesse hereof to al that can or wil peruse them And though a Negatiue be harde to proue yet this Negatiue that none but Bishoppes should subscribe in Councelles is plainely proued in the Auncient great General Councel of Châ—â—â—don Where it is openly â—â—ouchâ—d first of the Bishopâ—â— them selues Act. 1. Pag. 745. thus â— Synodus Episcoporum est non Cleriâ—â—â— A Synode or Councel is of Bishoppes not of the inâ—â—riour Clergie or of Priestes as alwaies you turne the worde Then of one Martinus Presbyter a Priest thus Non est meum subscribere bid Pag. 775. EpiscoporuÌ„ tantùm est It is not my part to subscribe It belongeth only to Bishoppes But M. Iewel wil proue the contrarie and that others beside Bishoppes had sentence definitiue But by whom Forsoth by Aeneas Syluius and Iohn Gerson both very late writers and not yet of two hundred yeres auncientie Such newe litle worth stuffe he that requireth vs to proue al thinges by the writers of the first 600. yeres bringeth against the Auncient practise of the primitiue Churche And yet he belieth his Authours most shamâ—lesly See Reader hovv many vntrue partes Mâ—l plaieth in one pore litle sentence For first he saith that Pius Secundus being him selfe a Pope telleth vs the contrarie whiche is vtterly false For when he wrote that booke he was Aeneas Syluius Piccolomineus not Pius Secundus He was then â— priuate man not a Pope And being Pope he recanted that hâ— had done in the pretensed Councel of Basile and that he had written thereof and certaine other errours which before he had published Bulla recantationis Pij Papa 2. Tom. 4. Concil pag. 503. and written to the derogation of the See Apostolike and of the Clergie Neither was this tolde by Aeneas Syluius as a thing of his owne iudgement and of his owne vtterance but as a thing in that Synode said by Cardinalis Arelatensis whose priuatâ— opinion that was and the same vttered he with that libertie which is graunted to al menne admitted to Councels in whiche they are permitted freely to speake what they thinke And therefore in debating of dâ—ubteful matters they speake thinges contrarie one against an other And this saying of the Cardinal of Arles was in that CouÌ„cel controlled and gainesaid by other menne of great lerning and iudgement as by Panormitanus Ludouicus and others there mentioned So that it is no better auctoritie then a thing that is spoken in heate of disputation against the truth for the better discussion of the truth In alleging then your Doctor you haue committed fiue vntruthes First he neuer wrote any suche booke as you name to witte De Gestis Concilij ConstaÌ„tiensis but de Gestis Concilij Basiliensis Secondly when he wrote it Vide Aene Syl. de Gestis CoÌ„cil Basil li. 1. pa. 27 he was not Pius Secundus Pope as you saie he was but Aeneas Syluius Piccolomineus a priuate man Thirdly it is not the saying of Aeneas him selfe but of the Cardinal of Arles Fourthly you haue added of your owne to his sentence these wordes in Concilijs which are not in your Author Neither spake he that of other Councelles then of the Apostles Councel meÌ„cioned in the Actes Fifthly you corrupte your Doctor by false translation For Apparet doth not alwaies signifie it is plaine as you haue translated it but it seemeth or appeareth And many thinges appeare that be not plaine nor true as this it selfe is one Of a thing that is plaine to saie it appeareth were preiudicial to the truth Whether these vntrue partes haue proceded of Rhetorical policie called otherwise lying for aduantage to make the most of your Author you could or of mere ignorance for that you neuer saw the place your selfe but trusted other mennes vntrue eies therein or els of a certaine dispositioÌ„ proper to your humour that nothing can passe your fingers without some false sleight or other I leaue it to be considered of others Geâ—son impudently be lyed and falsified by M. Iewel As for Iohn Gerson you deale as falsly with him as with Aeneas Syluius and to speake plainely though as you would haue it sâ—me vncourteously you vtterly belie him In the place by you allege Gerson speaking of verities that are so of necessitie to be beleeued Gerson Quae veritates credendae Corâ—llario 4 that otherwise a man can not be saued sheweth that one man is bounde vnder paine of heresie to holde some pointes with certaine and expresse faith and thereof in no wise to doubt whereof an other man for a time without blame maie be in doubte This doth he there declare by a threefolde example As a diuine saith he or a professour of diuinitie exercised in the holy scriptures is bound expressely to holde and not to doubte at al of many thinges of which a simple and an vnlearned man being required might with
time being and also from S. Peter bicause doubtlesse the priuileges which Christe graunted to S. Peter for the health of the Church remaine stil to euery Bishop of Rome his lawful Successour And what so euer is decreed by the Successours of Peter sitting in Peters Chaire it ought to be vnto vs none other then a Decree of S. Peter him sefe For to vs he is Peter Therefore the learned Fathers of the Councel of Chalcedon hauing heard the famous Epistle that Pope Leo wrote to Flauianus against the Heresie of Eutyches Concil ChalcedoÌ„ Act. 3. allowing wel of it in their solenne Acclamations whiche the Grecians alwaies vsed in their Councelles cried out Petrus per Leonemita locutus est Peter hath so spoken by Leo. Leo him selfe seemeth to declare in what sense S. Peter is thus ioined with him in gouernement of the Churche where he saith thus Post resurrectionem suam Dominus beato Petro Apostolo post regni claues Sermo in â—atiuitate Petri et Pauli ad trinam aeterni amoris professionem mystica insinuatione ter dixit Pasceoues meas quod nunc proculdubio facit mandatum Dominipius pastor exequitur confirmans nos exhortationibus suis pro nobis orare non cessans vt nulla tentatione superemur Si autem hanc pietatis suae curam omni populo Dei sicut credendum est vbique protendit quantò magis alumnis suis opem suam dignatur impendere apud quos in sacro dormitionis thoro eadem qua praecedit carne requiescit Our Lorde after his resurrection said thrise signifiyng a mysterie vnto S. Peter the Apostle Iohan. 21. after the keies of his kingdome had ben geuen to him at what time he made three times profession that he loued him Feede my sheepe whiche without doubte he doth also now and as a godly sheepeheard fulfilleth our Lordes commaundement confirming vs with his exhortations and not ceassing to praie for vs that we be ouercome by no tentation And if he streatche abroad in euery place this his Godly care to al the people of God as it it to be beleeued how muche more doth he vouchesaue to bestow his helpe vpon his owne deere ones among whom he resteth in the sacred bed of his dormition that is to saie in his Sepulchre in the same fleshe in whiche he goeth before vs. In what sense then S. Peter is said to feede Christes sheepe to this daie in the same sense it might wel be said of Leos decrees that they were Decreta à Leone beatissimo Apostolo Petro thinges decreed by Leo and by S. Peter the Apostle God geuing the good inspiration Certaine other suche phrases of Leo M. Iewel condemneth as conteining immoderate and ambitious praise of S. Peter and for the same would discredite that auncient learned Father about the discussion of whiche I thinke it not worth my labour to stand They maie wel be admitted with a conuenient vnderstanding and suche as euery good man would at the first reading of them conceiue Marie I confesse a curious carper wil finde faulte not onely with that this holy Father but with what so euer any learned Father hath written if he be disposed to wrangle vpon that whiche seemeth to be contrarie to the doctrine he hath taken vpon him to mainteine Iewel Pag. 111. Some others haue thought that as vvel these Epistles of Leo as also others moe and other the auncient Bishoppes of Rome haue benne interlaced and falsified by the ambitious Popes that folovved aftervvard c. Harding Of the number of these some others your selfe are one M. Iewel and your felowes are the reste who neiter being hable to auoide the truthe by Leo most clearely vttered nor willing to yelde vnto it would faine wiste ye how raise vp against the credite of his Epistles a surmise of Corruption and falsifying a common practise of yours But what you and suche others as you are thinke of Leo it skilleth litle He hath benne esteemed hitherto for a worthy Clerke and a holy Father Berengarius your first founder hath alwaies benne accompted an heretique and so shal al the Zuinglians and Caluinistes that folow him vpon whose credite ye haue gaged the euerlasting state of your soules be accompted of the Church for euer Of al your weake shiftes this is the weakest and hath leaste coloure of learning to saie of that in an auncient Father ye are not hable to answere that it is interlaced and falsified by the Popes If ye could once purchase you this authoritie to condemne of corruption and falsifying what is found to make cleare against you bring we neuer so muche for proufe of the Catholiquâ— religion your Answer maie soone be ready What you saie of Pope Zosimus falsifying of the Councel of Nice it hath benne throughly answered by vs as I tolde you before and as you know M. Iewel right wel and yet you dissemble it as if nothing were by vs said at al and let not so oftentimes to sing one song Whiche argueth a contentious witte and a desire to fil vp great bookes be the matter neuer so much and sufficiently before answered Iewel Pag. 112. Touching that M. Harding calleth the Pope the prince of Pastours be might haue remembred 1. Pet. 5. that the right of this name belongeth only vnto Christe S. Peter saith That vvhen Christe the prince of Pastours shal appeare ye maie receiue the vncorruptible crovvn Novv to inseaffe the Pope vvith Christes peculiar titles a maÌ„ might think it vvere great blasphemy Harding The Pope lawfully called the Prince of Pastours The 34. Chapt. Great blasphemie saie you Wo be then to S. Augustine that spake such great blasphemie when in a Sermon made before the people August de Sanctis Serm. 28. he called S. Peter principem Apostolorum the prince of the Apostles But the Apostles were Pastours yea the chiefe Pastours of Christes flocke Ergo S. Augustine sawe that it was no great blasphemie to cal S. Peter principem Pastorum the prince of Pastours August de verbis domini in Euang. secundum Math. Sermon 13. Euseb Eccles hist lib. 2. c. 14. In Registro epist 32. In Iohan. Homil. 87 He hath the like wordes in an other place Idem Petrus a petra cognominatus beatus Ecclesiae figuram portans Apostolatus principatum tenens The same blessed Peter hauing his name of a Rocke bearing the figure of the Churche holdeth the princehood of the Apostleship Eusebius also calleth S. Peter 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 prince of al the reste of the Apostles To S. Peter prince of al the Apostles the charge of the whole Churche was committed saith S. Gregorie S. Chrysostome nameth him Totius orbis magistrum the maister of the whole worlde no whit lesse in effecte then Prince of Pastours S. Bernard saith to the pope Tu Princeps Episcoporum Thou arte Prince of Bishoppes But Bishoppes are Pastours Ergo the Pope is Prince of Pastours To leaue many others and
and the Popes to be his successours He hath shewed also how the other Apostles were equal with Peter and how in other respectes they had lesse power for ordinarie continuance in their successours then Peter had But if I were of M. Iewels boasting humour I should now dissemble al this and write it in here a fresh as though nothing had benne said thereof before But I trowe wise men espie that smoky pride in him wel ynough I wisse lesse bookes might haue serued him for any good stuffe that is to be founde in them The fourth Booke conteineth a ful refutation of al that M. Iewel hath laid together in his pretensed Defence touching the Succession of Bishops in the Churche from the Apostles time vnto this present age Item a proufe of the necessitie of Confession WRITING the Confutation of the Apologie I had occasion to speake of the Succession of Bishoppes Thereto M. Iewel in his pretensed Defence hath replied at great length Wherein bicause he may perhaps to the vnlearned seme to haue some colour of aduantage against vs the matter being of good weight I iudge it not vnprofitable to bestow some labour and here to coÌ„fute his whole Defence touching that point whereby I doubte not it shal appeare how litle credite he deserueth if his sayinges be throughly examined where he blazeth forth most shew of learning That it maie appeare how directly he answereth the pointes of this Controuersie and of what pith his owne sayinges and how muche to the purpose his testimonies be and how truly alleged and that al be made the more plaine and cleere I wil reherse first the place of the Apologie that gaue me occasion to treat of Succession then the wordes of my Confutation against whiche M. Iewel bendeth the force of his Defence After this I wil laie forth his whole Defence sentence by sentence worde by worde as I finde it in his booke and so briefly as I can refel the same I am driuen to reherse that discourse of my Confutation againe bicause a great parte of the Defence depending thereof and being directed against the same onlesse it were againe by rehersal commended to the readers view and memorie our whole disputation would be obscure and vncertaine And this haue I donne also the rather to thintent the reader might haue that parte of my Confutation intier and whole whiche M. Iewel hath caused to be set forth in his booke pared hewed dismembred and altogether disgraced The Apologie parte 2. Cap. 5. Diuis 1. in the Defence Pag. 125. Furthermore vve saie that the miâ—ister ought laufully duely and orderly to be preferred to that office of the Church of God and that no man hath povver to vvrest him selfe into the holy Ministerie at his ovvne pleasure VVherefore these persons do vs the greater vvrong vvhiche haue nothing so common in their mouthes as that vve do nothing orderly and comely but al thinges troublesomly and vvithout order and that vve allovv euery man to be a priest to be a teacher and to be an interpretour of the scriptures Confutation fol. 56. a. Al from starre to starre leafte out by M. Ievvel Saing and doing are two thinges Ye saye wel in outward appearance Would God your doing were accordingly Albeit the manner of your saying had ben more coÌ„mendable if in so weighty a point you had spokeÌ„ more particularly and distinctly not so generally and confusely * Ye saye that the minister ought laufully to be called for so hath your Latine and duely and orderly to be preferred to that office of the Churche of God Why do ye not so why is not this obserued among you Gospellers What so euer ye meane by your Minister and by that office this are we assured of that in this your new Church Bishops Priestes Deacons Subdeacons or any other inferiour Orders ye haue none No holy orders among the gospellers Leâ—â— out by M. Ievvel In saying thus we speake not of our Apostates that be fledde from vs vnto your congregations Who as they remaine in the order which they receiued in the catholike Church so being diuided and cut of from the Church and excommunicate laufully they may not minister the sacramentes * For where as after the doctrine of your newe Gospel like the foreronners of Antichrist ye haue abandoned thexternal Sacrifice and priesthod of the newe Testament and haue not in your secte consecrated Bishops and therefore being without Priestes made with lawfull laying on of handes as Scripture requireth al holy Orders being geuen by Bishops only how can ye saie that any among you can laufully minister or that ye haue any lauful Ministers at al This then being so let me haue leaue to oppose one of these Defenders consciences And that for the better vnderstanding I may directe my wordes to a certaine person let him be the author of this Apologie or bicause his name to me is vnknowen let him be M. Iewel for with him gladly would I reason in this point the rather for acquaintaince and for that he beareth the name of a Bishop in that Churche where my selfe had a rome How saye you Syr minister Bishop ought the Minister to be laufully called ought he duely and orderly to be preferred to that office or as the Latine here hath promoted or put in authoritie ouer the Church in the Apologie this Defender saith yea Leaft out by M. Ievvel Then answer me directely How proue you your selfe laufully called to the roume you take vpon you to occupie First touching the ordinary Succession of Bishops from which as you knowe S. Iraeneus Tertullian Optatus and S. Augustine bring argument and testimonie of right and true religion do you allow the same with those fathers or no If not then dissent you from the learned and most vncorrupte antiquitie which is not reasonable neither then are you to be heard If yea then how can you recken vs vp your succession by which you may referre your imposition of handes and consecration to some of the Apostles or of their scholers as the foresaid fathers did to repel the nouelties of heresies and defende their continual possession of the Churche Which if ye go about how can ye but to the great hinderance of your cause bewraye your weake holde For whereas succession of doctrine must be ioyned with the succession of persons as Caluine in his institutions affirmeth and Beza auouched at the assemblie of Poyssi in Fraunce and we also graunt Succession of doctrine ioyned vvith succession of persons how many Bishoppes can you recken whom in the Churche of Sarisburie you haue succeded as wel in doctrine as in outward sitting in that chayre How many can you tel vs of that being your Predecessours in order before you were of your opinion and taught the faithful people of that Dioces the doctrine that you teache Dyd Bishop Capon teach your doctrine did Shaxton did Campegius did Bishop Audley Briefly did euer any Bishop of that See
proufe is nedelesse the thing is manifest * Harding Here treating of Succession as thou seest Reader I haue among other things brought forth TertulliaÌ„ demauÌ„ding of the Heretikes the Original of their Churches Tertul. lib. de praescription and the Register of their Bishops succeding one an an other from the beginning til his tyme. Againe I haue alleged S. Augustine naming 38. Popes of Rome in order August Epist 165 and thereof coÌ„cluded that bicause neuer a one of them was a Donatist the Donatists were al Heretikes Whereupon I also concluded that seing among al the Popes from S. Peter til this daie none was of M. Iewels opinion he and his felowes the Zuinglians and Caluinistes must by the rule S. of Augustine be taken for Heretiques For the true Churche is where the true ordinarie and manifest Succession is from the Apostles til these our dayes This only I require of thee gentle reader that thou woldest vouchesafe to reade this matter through and not to iudge before al be heard For in deede following M. Iewelles confuse order of writing I could not dispose my thinges in such Methode and Order as the weight of the matter requireth Bicause the matter is of importance I intend to leaue out no parte of M. Iewelles woordes whereby he maie seeme to impugne the Catholique doctrine And by the treatie of this one poynte it will appeare what huge bookes we should write if we should directe a ful answer to euerie parte of his idle talke in the pretensed Defence conteined Thus then he beginneth Iewel Pag. 127. Here hath M. Harding taken some paines more then ordinarie He thought if he could by any coloure make the vvorld beleeue vve haue neither Bisshoppes nor Priestes nor Deacons this daie in the Church of England he might the more easily claime the vvhole right vnto himselfe And in deede if it vvere certaine that the religion and truth of God passeth euermore orderly by Succession and none othervvise then vvere Succession vvhereof he hath tolde vs so long a tale a verie good substantial Argument of the Truth Harding Irenaeus saith it is a certaine Rule to knowe the Truth by For hauing reckened twelue Popes who in order succeded after S. Peter to wit Linus Anacletus Clemens Euaristus Alexander Sixtus Telesphorus Hyginus Pius Aniceâ—â— Soter and Eleutherius who then was the twelfth Bishop from the Apostles Irenaeus lib. 3. ca. 3. immediatly he saith thus Hac ordinatione successione ea quae est ab Apostolis in Ecclesia Traditio veritatis praeconiatio peruenit vsque ad nos Et est pleâ—issima haec â—stensio vnim eandem viuificatricem fidem esse quae in Ecclesia ab Apostolis vsque nunc sit coÌ„seruata troditain veritate By this order and Succession the Tradition and preaching of the truth whiche is in the Churche from the Apostles time came euen to our daies And this is a most ful declaration that the faith whiche is kept in the Churche and deliuered in truth from the Apostles time euen til this present hower is the one selfe same faith which is the causer of life and of saluation He saith it is a most ful declaration of the true and liuely faith And you wil confesse I trow that where that faith is there is the true Churche of God Such a Succession of Bishoppes in diuers countries we haue and can shew it from the Apostles time til this daie As the rew and order of Popes in al Chronicles doth shew to the eie and witnesseth to the vnderstanding But such a Succession M. Iewel and his fellowes haue not therefore by his owne confession we haue a good substantial Argument of the Truth Iewel Pag. 127. But Christe saith In cathedra Moysi sederunt Scribae Pharisaei by order of succession the scribes Math. 22. and Pharisees sitte in Moyses chaier Harding Wel handled M. Iewel You bring these wordes as though Christe had spoken them in the reproche of Succession Whereas Christ in that place made an ArgumeÌ„t for Succession in this wise Super cathedram Moysi sederunt Scriba Pharisaei Math. 23. omnia ergo quaecunque dixerint vobis seruate facite Vpon the chaier of Moyses the Scribes and Pharisees haue sitten Therefore kepe ye and do ye what so euer they saie vnto you or commaund you to kepe Could you not see that Ergo M. Iewel whiche is to saie Therefore Could you not perceiue that Christ made a plaine argument why and why only the Scribes and Pharisees should be obeied The matter goeth as if in moe wordes it had ben thus said The Scribes and Pharisees be naughtie men their workes are not to be folowed they â—ie heauy and importable burdens laying them on mens shoulders Math. 23. but they themselues wil not so much as once mâ—â—â— them with their finger They do al their workes for a shew Thus Christ him selfe doth paint them forth al whiche notwithstanding for onely Successions sake bicause by order of Succession they sit in Moyses chaier which my father and I haue planted in respecte thereof doo ye and kepe what so euer they commaund you to doo and kepe Mark the vvord of keeping Marke that he bindeth the people to obeie the very Scribes for Successions sake and to obeye them in keeping and obseruing the former lawes and rites To keepe I saye Beware of that Bishop who not succeding but vsurping the Chaier of good men as M. Iewel doth hauing iustled him selfe into the Chaier of good S. Osmund and others mo in the Churche of Sarisburie doth yet commaund the people not to keepe thinges but to cast them away These nevv Bisshoppes vvil not the people to kepe their faith but to chaÌ„ge their faith There is no Bishop of this newe Religion that commaundeth the people to keepe their olde faith and law but alwaies he biddeth them to change it But Christe bad the people to doo that whiche the Pharisees commaunded them to keepe and not to folow their deedes The Pharisees killed Christe but by keeping their lawes and Orders they should neuer haue come thereto If euer place of holy Scripture made for any truth in the Gospel this place which M. Iewel bringeth against Succession maketh for it and so for it that it can neuer be auoided What Doctor euer wrote vpon the holy Scriptures who might not now be brought for a witnesse of this my assertion S. Augustine saith that Christe made the people secure concerning euil Rulers Ne propter illos doctrinae salutaris Cathedra descreretur August Epist 166. in qua coguntur etiam mali bona dicere Neque enim suae sunt quae dicunt sed Dei qui in cathedra Vnitatis doctrinam posuit veritatis Lest for their sakes the chaier of holesom Doctrine should be forsaken in the whiche yea wicked men are forced to saie that whiche is good For the thinges whiche they saie are not their owne but Gods who in
doctrine is to be adiudged to come of lying as that which sauoureth against the truth of the Churches of the Apostles of Christ and of God Our doctrine proued to be true by the Successiō of the Apostolique Churche Now concerning our Churches it is euident that we agree with the original and mother Churches which were planted by the Apostles For we agree in faith with the Churche of Rome which was planted by the most blessed Apostles S. Peter and S. Paule and alwaies kepte her Succession til this present daie and therefore our doctrine is true But you agree in faith with no Churche at al now extant in the worlde which came from the Apostles and therefore your doctrine by the rule of Tertullian is false and lying Whiles he then disputed with Heretikes as we doo now with you he said either these Heretikes confesse that they beganne since the Apostles time and they are false teachers or if any of them dare intrude them selues into the Apostles age Edant origines Ecclesiarum suarum then let them bring forth the beginninges or shew the original euidences of their Churches let them vnfold the order of their Bishops so ronning along from the beginning by Succession that he who is the first Bishop had for his founder and predecessour one of the Apostles or of the Apostolike men who continued til the ende with the Apostles in the same faith Hoc enim modo Ecclesiae Apostolicae census suos deferunt For by this way the Apostolike churches do shew forth along their publike registers At length hauing brought forth the examples of the Churche of Smyrna and of the Churche of Rome and of other like Churches he concludeth thus confidenly Consingant tale aliquid Haeretic◠let the Heretiques feine some suche matter He bad them feme For he wel knewe in truth they coulde shew no suche Succession I haue then shewed that Tertullian spake not of Heretikes who lacked the pretense of Gods worde M. Ievvels Doctrine is proued by Tertulliā erroneus for lacke of Succession proued but of them who had no Succession of Bishoppes from the Apostles time til their owne age And one such Succession of Bishoppes in any one Church of al the worlde seing M. Iewel can not bring forth it remaineth that he is an Heretike and that his Doctrine is erroneus false and heretical Iewel Tertullian saith not vnto vs but vnto you and suche as you be let them shevv forth the Originals of their Churches Harding Is that al he saith M. Iewel Why went you not forth to the next wordes The Scrolles or rolles of Bishops names Let them vnfold the order of their Bishoppes He calleth it vnfolding bicause the Bishoppes names were vsed to be kept and written in order in long Rolles the whiche Rolles must be vnfolded when they are to be read He meant not therefore such Originals M. Iewel as you imagine to wit particular examples of this or that facte but he meant the Original copies or instrumentes and euidences of founding and planting of their Churche who it was that preached the Faith first vnto them and who was their first Bishop who the second who the third and so forth vntil the present time Iewel Euen so vve say vnto you shevv vs the Originals of your doctrine Harding You say not euen right so as Tertullian said For he called not for the Originals of Doctrine but of Churches Originals of Churches For by the Churches the Doctrine is knowen to be good or euil to be allowable or reproueable Iewel Shevv vs any one of the Apostles of Christe or of the learned Catholike Doctours of the Churche that euer said your priuate Masse Shevv one at the lest either Greeke or Latine Harding It was not that which Tertullian required He demaunded only for the Originals of Churches and for the order and Succession of Bishops But for that you durst not cal knowing that we could shew how S. Augustine conuerted vs being sent into England from S. Gregorie the Pope whiche Pope S. Gregorie succeded S. Peter in his Chaier Thus we can shew the Originals of our Churches bringing them from the Catholike Bishops whiche are yet aliue M. Ievvslyly diuerteth from the present matter to an other mater impertinent touching priuate Masse vpward vntil S. Peter But you are fallen away from the matter of Succession which only Tertullian presseth and are now come to demaunde of a particular facte whether any Apostle or olde Father euer said priuat Masse or no. I say al of them might haue said priuate Masse and that I proue by Tertullians reason and rule bicause the vse of saying priuate Masse came to vs time out of minde by Succession without any change or innouation noted therin by any storie or Chronicle And yet was ther neuer any strange or new thing receiued and vsed in the Churche but that great trouble came thereof as now there doth of your changing of Religion the whiche trouble of Churches and common Weales is at no time omitted in the stories of that age wherein it falleth But now seing the vse of saying priuat Masse came so peaseably to vs from hand to hand and no first author thereof can be shewed it is out of al controuersie that it was euer accompted a Godly and a lawful thing But what neede I now to repeate that I haue already written in that argument Answer that parte of my booke better to the purpose then yet ye haue donne whiche treateth of that point where many plaine euidences be brought forth of Sole Receiuing Sole Receiuing in the Primitiue Churche In my ansvvere Art 1. and likevvise in my first Reioindre Aug. Epi. 165. whiche Sole Receiuing is the onely thing for whiche you reproue priuate Masse as you cal it It is cleare that S. Chrysostom and certaine others said Masse and yet had no man to receiue with them as I haue other where declared I thinke not good now to fal into that Disputation againe and therefore here I wil cal you home to the present Argument of Succession Iewel Pag. 128. 129. S. Augustine saith of so many Bishops of Rome there could not one be found that had benne a Donatiste Euen so in like sorte say vve to you of al the same Bishops of Rome there can not be one found that euer agreed vvith M. Harding in saying Masse Or if there vvere any such shevv his name vvith other Circumstances vvhen and vvhere and vvho vvere vvitnesses of the doing Shevv vs your Originals M. Harding Confesse the Truth deceiue vs no longer It is a nevv deuise ye haue it only of your selues and not by Succession from the Apostles Harding You pretend to reason like S. Augustine as though he had reasoned vpon a particular facte and not vpon the Doctrine Euen so in like sorte say you and it is not euen so nor in like sorte S. Augustine concluded that the Donatistes were Heretikes S. Augustines
stuffe in some of your Germaine gatherers or elles it was ministred to you by some of your Cōministers if not by your blind lawier whose help you haue bought with a pece of an Archdeaconrie For you beganne not I suppose to studie the Canonistes and the gloses of the Law before you occupied the place of a Bishop if then at the least you did But how soeuer that be your memory might haue ben better bestowed thē in keping in stoare such a toie The Canonistes meane that the Pope as being the highest iudge is not bound to the obseruation of any thing in the law whiche is only Ceremonial so that he may dispense with those maters when he seeth cause and may with his only worde promote a man to the authoritie of a Bishop the omission of any Ceremonie notwithstanding But they speake only of rites and Ceremonies such as I suppose you your selfe would not or should not sticke vpon when either necessitie or vniuersal profite should require a thing to be spedily donne As for any point necessary to the Sacrament of holy Orders the Pope may not omit in any wise Iewel Pag. 129. Panor de cōstitutiō translato And Abbate Panormitane moueth a doubte vvhether the Pope by the fulnesse of his povver may depriue al the Bishoppes of the vvorlde at one time But thus they say that care not greatly vvhat they say Harding When you had only said that Panormitane moued the doubte you conclude with thus they say as though he had said that in deede the Pope might depriue al the Bishoppes in the worlde at once Certainely the mouing of the doubt sheweth him not to say it For many doubtes be moued you know pardy not to the ende men should thinke that al may be donne whereof by learned men a question is moued but that they may the better carie away the answer So question is moued emong the Scholemen An Deus sit whether God be not that any man at al doubteth thereof but to see how the doubte might be resolued if any man were so mad as to moue it Once it is certaine that the Pope can not depriue al Bishoppes For although they be vnder him specially if they do amisse or nede any helpe yet they are as truly Bishops as he is and are the Successours of the Apostles who knowing the Primacie to belong vnto S. Peter did yet make Bishops by Gods ordinance where so euer they thought it expedient Aaron was the chiefe emong al the Priestes and Leuites yet he could not therfore depriue al the Leuites and Priestes And euen so your owne Panormitane whom you make to doubte concludeth with these wordes Quod si papa vellet c. Translato ex de Constitut non posset remouere omnes Episcopos cum repraesentent omnes Apostolos If the Pope would he could not remoue al Bishops for as muche as they represent al the Apostles Cal you this a doubting when he so plainely determineth against that for which you alleage his doubting Iewel Verely Nilus a greeke vvriter saith thus Nilus d◠primatu Rom. Pontificie The Bishop of Constantinople doth order the Bishop of Cesarea and Other Bishops vnder him But the Bishop of Rome doth neither Order the Bishop of Constantinople nor any other Metropolitane Harding It neither much skilleth what Nilus doth say Nilus a late vvriter and mainteiner of the Greekes Schisme whose authoritie is so litle worth being a late mainteiner of the Schisme of the Grecians and yet though his saying were true it skilleth also as litle bicause it speaketh of a matter of facte and not of power For he sayth not that the Bishop of Rome is not hable or hath not power to order some Metropolitane but only that he doth not so meaning that he vseth not so to doo And if the not doing proue any impotencie or vnablenes to doo it then it maie be said Christe is not hable to ordeine a Deacon bicause we read not that euer he did so by his owne mouth Actor 6. or handes For Deacons were ordeined by his Apostles after his Ascension But albeit the Pope vseth not to Order Metropolitanes with his owne handes yet Nilus I trow meant not but that he was of power to doo it or if he was so folish as to thinke so yet you M. Iewel should not in that behalfe beare the bable with him as who confesse that he was euer as great a Patriarke and much more auncient then the Bishop of Constantinople was so that the Bishop of Constantinople can not be able to doo that which the Pope also can not doo To be short you that can cal so many gloses to your remembrance could you not remember that as Liberatus Liberatus in breuiari◠ca. 21. recordeth Anthenius the Bishop of Constantinople being yet aliue but deposed for heresie Agapetus that good Bishop of Rome consecrated and ordered with his owne handes Mennas who professed the Catholike faith making him Bishop of Constantinople in stede of the other heretical Bishop Are you then so farre to seeke in your Logike as not to know that if the Bishop of Rome did lawfully once order the Bishop of Constantinople that stil he were of authoritie and power so to doo if nede were Iewel But hereof I haue spoken more at large in my former Replie to M. Harding Harding But thereof you are confuted more at large by M. Stapleton in his Returne of Vntruthes vpon you and yet could you dissemble the matter as though your fourth Article and namely that part whereof here you speake were not founde as ful of Vntruthes as of Allegations Iewel Pag. 129. Certainely S. Cyprian vvilleth that Sabinus being lavvfully elected Cyprian Lib. 1. Epist 4. and consecrate Bishop in Spaine should continevve Bishop stil yea although Cornelius being then Bishop of Rome vvould not confirme him Harding By this a man may know what a Dodger you are and whence your great bookes procede Verely from certaine heretical Notebookes made by some Grāmarians or Scholemasters of Germanie For alwaies your allegations and reportes come out after the same sorte If once they conteined an open lye being neuer so often repeated they shal stil conteine it and reason For they were alwayes written out of one lying fountaine In the Returne Artic. 4. Fol. 127. M. Stapleton had told you of this very matter before He shewed that your note booke is false It was not Pope Cornelius but Pope Steuen who would haue restored Basilides to his bishoprike against Sabinus who was newly elected in Spaine But the staye why Pope Steuens Decree stoode not was only for lacke of true information in Basilides appeale made to Rome Now reason and lawe sheweth that when a thing is not done only vpon a certaine cause that cause ceasing the thing should be right wel done Sabinus might continue Bishop not withstanding that Pope Steuen wrote against him onely bicause Basilides for whom the Pope wrote
who haue vnlawfully inuaded the administration of the Sacramentes can make any iust and right answer I am sure * These being my questions M. Iewel you answer neither by what example handes were laid on you nor who sent you but only you say he made you priest that made me in king Edwardes daies Verely I neuer had any name or title of Priesthod geuen to me during the raigne of King Edward I onely tooke the Order of Deaconshippe as it was then ministred farther I went not So that if you haue none other Priesthoode then I had in King Edwardes time you are yet but a Deacon and that also not after the Catholique manner but in a Schismatical sorte Truly after that I had wel considered with my selfe those questions which in my Confutation I moued vnto you I tooke my selfe neither for a Priest nor yet for a lawful Deacon in al respectes by those orders Rom. 13. which were taken in king Edwardes daies For I cōsidered that whereas al power commeth from God most specially the power whereby the Church is gouerned commeth from him by Christe And seing al men know and see how the power whereby temporal kingdomes are gouerned is and ought to be wel witnessed by lineal descent of bloud or els by election and such other vocations as are among men and seing that external witnesse whereby their titles are proued is both good and necessary I thought that it was much more conuenient to graunt that the power whereby Christes Churche is gouerned ougtht to be wel witnessed euen outwardly ◠Timo. 3. sithens S. Paule requireth also that a Bisshoppe or Priest should be of a good name emong the Infidels if he liue with them And seing Christ came into the worlde to be seene and to minister and to institute visible Sacramentes and to sende visible Preachers Iohan. 02 I considered what an absurditie it was after his Ascension for man to chalenge an Inuisible Churche or Succession to him selfe Furthermore when I vewed the state of the Primitiue Churche and saw that Bishoppes euermore succeded lineally one after an other euen from the Apostles time and had read that same order of Succession to be vrged and pressed vpon by S. Irenaeus S. Cyprian Optatus and S. Augustine as is afore noted And perceiued that who soeuer forsooke the open and knowen Successiō of Bishops he was condemned for an Heretike as wel in the Latine as in the Greeke Churche al these thinges being set before myne eyes through Gods grace who shewed me them I esteemed not the title of any Ministerie which I might seeme to haue receiued in King Edwardes time so muche as I should haue done if I had receiued it of a Catholique Bishop and after the order of the Catholique Churche being wel assured that those who tooke vpon them to geue Orders were altogether out of Order them selues and ministred them not according to the rite and manner of the Catholique Churche as who had forsaken the whole Succession of Bishops in al Christendome and had erected a new Congregation of their owne planting the forme whereof was imagined only in their owne braines and had not benne seene nor practised in the world before Now the same reasons which with many other moued me I proponed to M. Iewel not being wholly without hope but that through Gods grace they might haue moued him also And yet he not vnwitting that I had returned to the vniuersal and onely true Churche and that I had taken a better ground of Priesthod then his Secte hath among whom al external Priesthod is vtterly denied he dissembling al this wil seeme to be a Priest by my knowledge and confession as if he and I had benne made priestes by the same man No no M. Iewel We were in parte together but I thanke God of it wee were not wholly together For I was with you with feare of God and with misliking of many your deedes and opinions and with desire to serue God in that Truthe Religion and Churche wherein I might safely reste and quiet my selfe In your fellowship I soughte that safe quietnes but I neuer founde it bicause my feete were not staied vpon the Rocke nor vpon anie sure grounde sith I sawe what ye misliked but I sawe not what ye woulde haue I sawe what ye pulled downe but I sawe not what ye set vp I sawe from what auncient Churche ye were departed but I sawe you not to goe to any elder societie of faithful men then your selues were And yet I knewe and at the length considered that Christes Churche must be aboue fifteen hundred yeres olde whereas your Churche place it at Wittenberge at Zuriche or in what other corner so euer ye wil is not yet ful fiftye yeres olde and your firste Preacher can shewe no commission either ordinarie or miraculous for him selfe These reasons with diuers other moued me the same also ought to haue moued you And bicause you can not answer them you dissemble them and therefore of your lawful Commission Vocation and Sending you speake neuer a worde Iewel 130. Father as if you vvere my Metropolitane ye demaunde of me vvhether I be a Bishop or no. I ansvver you I am a Bishop and that by the free and accustomed Canonical Election of the vvhole Chapter of Sarisburie assembled solemnely together for that purpose Harding It was no free Election M. Iewel M. Iewels canonical election to the See of Sarisburie when the Chapter whiche chose you saw that excepte it chose you it selfe shoulde be in danger of the lawe and of the Princes displeasure It was no Canonical Election when he was chosen whom the olde Canons haue iudged vnable for that Vocation For howe can he be chosen Bishoppe that is to saye highe Prieste who teacheth that there is not at al any external Priesthod in the Churche Howe can he be chosen Bishoppe that is to saye highe prieste who teacheth with the olde condemned Heretique Aerius Epiphan Haeres 75. that by Gods lawe there is no difference betwen a Bisshoppe and a priest How can he be lawfully chosen Bishoppe in Sarisburie according to the olde Canons who teacheth al the olde Canons to be superstitiouse wherein from the Apostles time Praiers for the dead were commaunded and prescribed What Canon can allowe his Election who breaketh the Vnitie of the Churche and diuideth him selfe and his flocke 〈…〉 Quenes Chappel let M. Richard Chaundler prebendarie there and Archedeacon of Sarisburie let your owne frende and faithfelowe M. Parry Chauncellour of that Churche be demaunded whether I was present at your Election and gaue free and open consent vnto it or no. I maruel that you who can remember so many sayinges of Glosers and Canonistes could not remember to cal for the Registers booke or for the witnesse of those of that Church there with you daily present to vnderstand the truth hereof before you wrote this much You knew it you knew it right wel M.
that there is no succession in doctrine Now I saie ronne ouer al the Bisshops of Rome and you can saie of neuer a one this man coÌ„ming into his Predecessours See did oppugne his doctrine or preached with the Churche of Romes contentation against that which was in vse before So that in Rome al thinges are euen at this day concerning faith as S. Peter leafte them For euery man hath agreed in outward Decree senteÌ„ce and profession with al the predecessours and successours Iewel Pag. 132. S. Bernard saith Quid prodest si canonicè eligantur In concil Remen non canonicè viuant VVhat auaileth it if they be chosen in order and liue out of order Harding It auaileth nothing to the euil liuer but yet it auaileth muche to him that obeieth the good and true doctrine of the euil teacher Iewel So saith S. Augustine Ipsum characterem multi lupi Cont. Donatist lib. 6. 1. q. 3. vocantur caâ—es Character vvhat it signifieth in the Sacraments lupis imprimunt The outvvarde marke or right of a bisshop many geue to vvolues and be vvolues them selues Harding By Character is not meant an outward marke but rather an inwarde marke and print which through the receiuing of certaine Sacramentes is imprinted in the soules of them who receiue them of whiche sorte are Baptisme Confirmation and holy Orders And those sacramentes being once receiued caÌ„ not be repeated or be againe receiued of the same person For the Sacrament of Christes body and bloud although it be an outward signe yet it leaueth not any Character or suche inward print in the soule as may be no more repeated But letting that errour passe of the true interpretation of this worde Character I graunt that Heretikes may baptize heretikes euen without the Churche and the Baptisme shal stand although it be vnlawfully ministred What maketh that against the Suceession of Bishops It rather proueth that seing the Sacramentes may be ministred if not to saluation of them that are of discretion yet truly and really without the true Churche there must be an other rule taken to know the true Church by besides the administration of Sacramentes And that true and certaine rule is the perpetual Succession of the See Apostolike Iewel Pag. 132. Therefore the auncient father Irenaus geueth vs this good counsel Eis qui sunt in Ecclesia presbyteris obedire oportet Iren. lib. 4. ca. 43. qui successionem habent ab Apostolis qui cum episcopatus successione charisma veritatis certum secundùm beneplacitum patris acceperunt It becommeth vs to obey those Priestes in the Churche vvhich haue their succession from the Apostles and together vvith the Succession of their bishoprikes according to the good vvil of God the Father haue receiued the vndoubted gifte of the truthe Harding Al this maketh against you M. Iewel For seing you can shew no such Priestes hauing their Succession from the Apostles and hauing receiued the vndoubted gifte of the truth whom ye doo obeye it is certaine that ye haue not the gifte of the truthe among you On the other side seing we haue Priestes that is to say Bishoppes of Rome who are also Priestes which haue their SuccessioÌ„ from the chiefe and most glorious Apostles Peter and Paule and seing such Priestes and Bishops keeping stil the same faith and doctrine from man to man haue receiued the vndoubted gifte of the truth according to the good wil of God the Father doubtelesse the vndoubted marke of the truth is with vs only and not with you at al who haue no Succession at al of any Priestes and much lesse of any suche Priestes that succede lineally from the Apostles them selues Iewel 132. S. Cyprian being likevvise charged for dissenting from his predecessours Lib. 2. epist 3. ansvvereth thus Si quis de antecessoribus meis c. If any of my predecessours haue not obserued and kepte the same that our Lorde hath taught vs both by his example and also by his coÌ„maundement his simplicitie may be pardoned but we if we doo the like can hope for no pardon being nowe admonished and instructed of our Lorde Harding Cough vp man it wil choke you Phy. vvhat a fowle corruption is this Lib. 2. epist 3. if you let it tarry within your throte Here is but halfe the bone there is yet in S. Cyprian no ful point it foloweth in the same sentence Vt calicem Dominicum vino mixtum secundùm quod Dominus obtulit offeramus We can hope for no pardon who are now admonished and instructed of our Lorde that we should offer our Lordes chalice mixed with wine accordingly as our Lorde offered the same Either M. Iewel tooke this saying of S. Cyprian vpon the Germaine credite as he found it noted in their bookes and then his false brethren deceiued him or els he wrote it out of S. Cyprian himselfe and then his studie and wil was to deceiue vs. He would ful gladly haue geuen vs an authoritie that we might forsake the example of our Predecessours but he was loth we should see the thing wherewith the authoritie was exemplified For if at any time he say al he is sure to speake against him selfe and no wonder because he speaketh against the truth and euerie good saying euermore agreeth with the trtuh First he corrupteth S. Cyprian in putting in meis for nostra my predecessours in stede of our predecessours For S. Cyprian speaketh not of his owne Succession but of what soeuer Priest or Bishoppe that liued before his time Againe S. Cyprian spake not of any such custome as had ben generally vsed of al Bishops for then it had ben of ful authoritie but of that which some one man vsed priuatly and without keeping the lawe of Succession And therefore S. Cyprian said Si quis if any man Thirdly the thing he spake of was that some were said to offer water alone in our Lordes supper and not wine withal Now saith he if any before our time haue vsed to offer water and not wine mingled with water wel he may be pardoned by our Lordes mercie but we that are admonished and instructed to offer our Lordes chalice mingled with wine that is to say consisting not of water alone but of water and wine mingled together we caÌ„ not be pardoned except we mingle water with wine and so do offer our Lordes Chalice as he him selfe did offer it Nowe applie this geare Christian Reader to our new brethrens deedes Do they offer our Lordes Chalice at al Or do they graunt that our Lord in his Supper offered it Do they mingle water with wine at the time of consecrating the mysteries If they do neither of both what folie yea what madnesse was it for M. Iewel to bring foorth these wordes of S. Cyprian thereby to accuse him selfe and his owne Communion as not obseruing that whiche our Lorde commaunded to be obâ—â—rued It is a worlde to see how these men applye the witnesses of
Castro maketh quite against you Viruesius Philippica 19. and your Brethren For this is that Viruesius writeth If a man haue vowed saith he and can not conteine and hauing assaid al meanes yet preuaileth not in this case I would aduise him to prouide for his safetie by Marriage not doing it of his owne head but by the authoritie of the Pope Thus he In which wordes he geueth but his priuate aduise referring the partie so standing in danger vnto the Pope for dispensation of his Vowe Your Brethren on the other side notwithstanding their solemne Vowe as being some Religious personnes some Priestes ronne hedlong to Marriage as they cal it hauing assaied fewe due meanes or none at al for the obteining of Chastitie neuer calling better menne then them selues to counsel nor sticking for any dispensation for their Vowe to be had at al. To say the least of both his aduise is sober and leaneth to ObedieÌ„ce these men seeme to play the merchants venturers their dooing is rash comtemptuous and altogether disobedieÌ„t But how farreforth this aduise of Viruesius is to be allowed whether the case be to be admitted that by Praiers fasting by streight discipline and chastisment of the flesh by any asking seking knocking nor by any meanes a man hauing deliberatly and deuoutly made a Vowe of continencie with intent the more expeditely and purely to serue God can not obteine at his mercie the necessarie gifte of continencie and whether if through frailtie and negligence perhappes he fal he shal not repent and study how to amend that he hath done amisse and continually fight against temptatioÌ„s but streight waie take a woman and marrie and how safe it is for a man in this case to sue vnto the Pope for a dispensation of his Vowe and whether when he hath married he be sure to be deliuered from al temptations of incontinencie these pointes I wil not take vpon me here to determine but leaue them to the consideration of their consciences that be learned in these cases Novv M. Ievv coÌ„meth to the point at length and haue the true feare of God At length M. Iewel commeth vnto that point which he should haue answered long before At length I say bicause after that he hath filled fiue leaues of Paper with diuers sayinges of the Doctours gathered out of his Notebookes and heaped together to litle other purpose then to shewe of a great booke Now then thou shalt here see good Reader how substantially he proueth it to be lawful for Priestes to marrie and that the Marriage of Priestes hath ben accompted lawful As concerning Monckes and Friers and Nonnes that haue taken the vaile of their profession they must defend their Marriages or rather yokinges aswel as they can them selues for this man hath nothing to say in their defence If he had out it should to help to make vp the heape neither could he be spareful of it fauouring the cause so much as he doth That then being leaft as a desperate cause let vs see what good stuff he bringeth for the Mariages of Priestes Iewel M. Harding vnvvares falleth into the same Negatiue Diuinitie that hâ—sâ— often and so muche abhorreth For thus he saith vve denie vtterly that any man after that he hath receiued holy Orders maie marrie Neither can it be shevved that the Marriage of suche vvas euer accompted lavvful in the Catholique Churche If this tale be true then be al the Greeke Priestes Votaries as vvel as the Latines Distinct 31. Quoniam in Margine But it is noted vpon the Decrees Graeci continentiam non promittunt vel tacitè vel expressè The Greekes make no promise of continent or Single life neither secretly nor expressely Harding If you take them to be Votaries In vvhat sense are the Greke Priestes Votaries that make a Vowe neuer to marrie for time to come so are the Greeeke Priestes Votaries by law of the Greeke Churche as wel as the Latines but if you accompte them to be Votaries that Vowe vtterly to absteine from the vse of a woman whether they had wiues before they tooke holy Orders or otherwise in this sense the Greekes are not ne haue not ben Votaries generally that is to say in al places and at al times as the Latines were and yet be as among whom more austeritie of life hath alwaies ben vsed M. Iewels chiefe autoritie is a marginal note vpon the Glose So that in this respecte your Argument is naught and concludeth not As for your marginal note it is besides the texte and therfore of smal authoritie It is a signe ye lacke good euidence for this matter fith that for proufe of it ye are driuen to serue your selfe of such weake stuffe Albeit the same note is thus to be vnderstanded that they of the East Church what time they were promoted to holy Orders made no promise to absteine from the companie of their lawful wiues vnto whom they were married before they tooke suche Orders And so muche you might haue found in the texte Distinct 31. Quoniam being a Decree of the sixt synode that you needed not to haue scraped helpe out of the bookes margent Now shew vs your better stuffe For this is litle worthe Iewel Concil Ancyran cap. 9. In the Councel holden at Ancyra it is concluded thus Diaconi quicunque ordinantur si in ipsa Ordinatione protestati sunt dixerunt velle se Coniugio copulari quia sic manere non possunt Hi si postmodum vxores duxerint in Ministerio maneant propterea quòd Episcopus illis licentiam dederit Deacons as many as be ordered if at the time of receiuing Orders they made protestation and said that they vvould marrie for that they finde not them selues hable so to continue vvithout Marriage if they aftervvard marrie let them continue in Ministerie for asmuch as the Bishop hath geuen them licence M. Harding I trovv vvil not denie but Deaconship is one of the holy Orders Harding Ansvver vnto the Canon of the CouÌ„cel of Ancyra This proueth not that Deacons did marrie nor that any Bishop euer gaue them licence to marrie but onely that if they would marrie the Bishops licence therto obteined they should not be remoued from the ministerie Whether any with licence married or no you are not yet hable to shewe And whereas no deacon might marrie but such as had made protestation that he would marrie before he tooke holy Orders and had obteined leaue of the Bishop so to doo by this we vnderstand that for a Deacon to marrie simply to speake and of it selfe it was vnlawful For otherwise what needed protestation leaue and licence What so euer is lawful may be done without protestatioÌ„ or licence and what may not be done but with protestation and licence the same of it selfe is vnlawful And so my saying by this testimonie is confirmed it is not confuted Againe it is to be considered that by this Councel a
to marrie a wife or no here I dispute not I confesse the Single state of the Clergie not to be Iuris Diuini expressely but Iuris Ecclesiastici positiui And to say that the Pope may in no case at al dispense with a Priest of the West Churche or with a religious person to marrie it is against the Diuines against the Canonistes and against the authoritie Raymeriâ— made kiÌ„g of AragoÌ„ of a MoÌ„ke and married by dispensation See the historie of Franciscus Tarapha which the Churche of Rome hath in some cases vsed de facto as they speake as it is knoweÌ„ by the example of Raymeris the king of Aragon in Spaine with whom about the yere of our Lorde 1160. the Pope dispensed yea he compelled him as we reade to geue ouer the Profession of his Religion and to marrie whiche is more then to dispense with a secular Priest for sauing of Christian bloud and for the necessary disposition of that kingdom The like example happened in the kingdome of Pole Casimirus the onely that remained a liue of the kinges bloud Munster Cosmographiae lib. 3. in Schlesia lib. 4. in Polonia Mart. Cromerus being a Moonke and a Deacon by sute of the Nobles of that realme Dispensation of the Pope obteined was taken out of his monasterie of the Order of Cisterce made Kinge of Pole and married But suche a singular case maketh no common rule Againe where a thing is not done but by special dispensation the dispensation it selfe argueth the same of it selfe that is to say considered without dispensation to be vnlawful Therefore my Assertion that no man may marrie after holy Orders receiued and that such Marriage was neuer accompted lawful in the Catholique Churche standeth true as before Iewel Athanasius saith Athanas ad Dracontium Multi quoque ex Episcopis matrimonia non inierunt Monachi contrà Parentes liberorum facti sunt Many of the Bisshoppes he saith not al but many haue not married By vvhiche vvoordes he geueth vs to vnderstande that some haue married contrarievvise Monkes haue becomme fathers of Children Harding This testimonie is bodged with your forged Parentheses Whereby you signifie that of it selfe and without addition of your owne wordes it helpeth you litle Al standeth vpon trial of the translation If you could haue alleged S. Athanasius owne wordes as he wrote in Greeke a right answere might soone be made The translatour litle thinking of their sleightes that be Proctours for the Marriages of Votaries had rather hauing respect to the finenesse of the Latine so to turne it then otherwise If the place were thus latined Multi ex Episcopis matrimonia non inierant or non habuerunt Monachi contrà parentes liberoruÌ„ extiterunt whereby is signified that many Bishops had neuer contracted Marriages and that some Monkes had ben fathers of children if the place had thus benne turned as I suppose the Greeke hath it would haue serued you to no purpose For I graunt you that some bishops haue had wiues but before they were made Bishops as Spiridion S. Gregorie Nazianzenes father and Gregorie of Nyssa S. Basils brother and that some Monkes were fathers of children whiche they begote in lawful wedlocke before they entred into that profession and order of life Albeit if we allowed you this translation for good and true according to the Greeke yet of these woordes you can not conclude that by iudgement of S. Athanasius the Marriages of bishops are accompted lawful by the circuÌ„stance of the place in that Epistle to Dracontius S. Athanasius may seeme to speake those wordes in dispraise of certaine Bishops and Monkes and not at al in their commendation and so you ought not to allege it for an allowed example But hereof we shal be more assured if they of Basile wil sette foorth that Fathers workes in Greeke Iewel Pag. 176. Cassiodorus vvriteth thus Cassio li. 6. cap. 14 In illo tempore ferunt Martyrio vitam finisse Eupsychium Caesariensem Episcopum ducta nuper vxore dum adhuc quasi sponsus esse videretur At that time they say Eupsychius the Bishop of Caesaria died in Martyrdom hauing married a vvise a litle before being as yet in manner a nevv married man Harding A man would thinke if this wil not serue the turne that nothing wil serue A blessed man Eupsychius bishop of Caesaria a holy Martyr married to a wise but a litle before his Martyrdome The writer of the Storie Cassiodorus a noble man and graue Senator of Rome a man of good credite What can a man desire more But phy vpoÌ„ such shamelesse falsifiers O lamentable state A falshod in excusable and in tollerable of M. Ievv where the people of God be coÌ„pelled to heare such false Prophetes What wil he feare to speake in pulpite where he is sure no man shal control him that is not ashamed thus to write in bookes openly published vnto the world which he knewe should not escape the examination of his Aduersaries The truth is good Reader Neither Cassiodorus wrote thus nor Eupsychius was euer Bishop of Caesaria nor of any other place nor so much as a Priest Deacon or Subdeacon The writer of the Storie which we haue of this blessed Martyr Eupsychius is Sozomenus the Greeke Who with the Ecclesiastical Storie of Socrates and Theodoritus was translated into Latine by one Epiphanius Scholasticus out of whiche three Cassiodorus gathered the AbridgemeÌ„t that we haue vnder the name of the Tripartite historie Histor Tripartit lib. 6. c. 14 The place truly reported hath these wordes In illo tempore ferunt vitam finisse Martyrio Basilium Ecclesiae Ancyranae Presbyterum Eupsychium Caesariensem Cappadociae ducta nuper vxore cùm adhuc quasi Sponsus esse videretur They say that at that time Basiliê° a Priest of the Church of Ancyra ended his life in Martyrdom Also Eupsychius the Caesarian of Cappadocia hauing married a wife a litle before and when as yet he seemed to be but a new married man Here is no mencion made that Eupsychius was the bishop of Caesaria The storie as we haue it in Latine of Epiphanius turning calleth him only Eupsychium Caesariensem Cappadociae that is to say Eupsychius a maÌ„ of Caesaria that is in Cappadocia whiche is added to signifie of whiche Caesaria he was for that there was an other famous Citie of that name in Palestina an other likewise in Mauritania and others moe in other countries Sozomenus him selfe who is the authour of the Storie addeth a worde more signifying of what estate and condition he was whereby the opinion of his being the Bishoppe of Caesaria is quite taken awaye For thus he reporteth of him in the Greeke Sozomen lib. 5. c. 11 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. EupsychiuÌ„ Caesariensem Cappadociae PatriciuÌ„ asmuch to say Eupsychius of Caesaria in Cappadocia a nobleman or one of the Lordes of the Citie Thus is Eupsychius whom M. Iewel hath made a Bishop as much as
commonly I answere to euery thing by the Apologie obiected vnto the Catholikes in your preteÌ„sed Defence you laie much of my ConfutatioÌ„ together and in your Answere either you touch no point by me confuted or very few pointes but fil your booke with new matter not perteining to the defence of that which is confuted taken as it seemeth out of the stoare of your Notebookes which Illyricus Frier Bale and certaine others of that cutte haue made to your hande Touching this present matter you would if you wist how persuade the worlde by the example of Gregorie Nazianzenes Father that a Bishop is not only not letted or hindred from doing that which belongeth to his duetie by hauing a wife but also muche holpen and that for being marrried he is the better hable to discharge the seruice of a Bishop To proue this you allege muche out of S. Gregorie Nazianzene in Epitaphie patris In vvhat respecte saith Nazianzen of his Mother that she vvas to his Father a leader c. And the wordes whiche you allege be there in deede Which wordes reporte that S. Gregorie Nazianzenes Mother was to his Father a helper a guide a Leader a Capitaine by worde and by deede training him vnto the best yea further that in Religion and godlinesse she was not ashamed to becomme his Maistresse Al this is true M. Iewel I confesse and yet it proueth not your purpose at al. How so M. Iewels falshed discouered Marke Reader and consider of it wel how M Iewel begyleth thee Gregorie Nazianzen hereof saith he that is of the helpe that his Father being the Bishoppe of Nazianzum had by his wife writeth thus Illa c. Here lyeth the deceite in that he maketh S. Gregorie Nazianzenes Father Bishop of Nazianzum when he had suche helpe of his mother as though it were credible that a Bishoppe should be taught of his wife how to teache his flocke the doctrine of our Religion If S. Gregorie Nazianzene had meant thus he had made his Father but a simple Bishop It is a weake flocke they say of sheepe where a Yew beareth the belle So truely it must be an infortunate Dioces where the Bishop is his Wiues scholare Gregorie NaziaÌ„zeÌ„ expounded Now Reader al these great crakes that M. Iewel vttereth here so liberally in thy iudgement must come to naught when thou vnderstandest the truth of this matter Thus then it is Gregorie the elder S. Gregorie Nazianzenes Father was a married man long before he was Bisshop and before he was married vnto his wife and also long after he was in Infidel She S. Gregories mother contrariwise was a Christian woman borne of Christian parentes and descended of a stocke that had ben Christian of long time Her learned sonne speaking of her 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. fol. 124. a. Aldi Hypsistarij vvhat menne they were in comparison of his Father saith that she was not taken out of the wilde Oliue and engraffed into the good Oliue as he was But that she had vertue and the true faith of Christe as by auncient inheretance from her godly forefathers Of him he saith that he was a branche of a Roote that was not to be praised that was not disposed to godlines that was not planted in the howse of God Touching the religion that he was of speaking more particularly of him he saith that he was one of them who were named Hypsistarij of whom I haue not readde but in S. Gregorie Nazianzene These Hypsistarij as he describeth them were neither altogether Heathens nor Iewes but as a man following S. Gregorie might terme them mongrels betwen both For as he saith of the Heathnish errour they exchewed Idolles and Sacrifices and yet honoured the Fier and Lampes and of Moyses lawe they had in reuerence the Saboth daie and vsed the Iewish superstition about certaine meates but Circumcision they vtterly refused Suche a one touching Religion was this Gregorie Now that vertuous and holy woman his wife on the other side taking great thought for her husband â—nd as her sonne writeth hauing great griefe at harte that being yoked together in wedlocke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they drewe not one waie together through diuersitie of faith that she was vnited vnto God but in respecte of halfe that the copulation of the spirite was not ioined with the bodily copulation being most desirous to remedie this and yâ—â— not being â—â—ble to bring it to passe she fâ—l downe saith hâ— befoâ—â— God daie and night she besought and craued of him the saluation of her husband with muche fasting and with many teares Withal she was instant vpon her husband to come to the Christian faith she vsed al the waies she could deuise whereby to winne him * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Gregorie the Fathers Vision with chidinges saith he with admonitions with * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Gregorie the Fathers Vision kinde and louing seruices with tokens of displeasure To be shorte * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Gregorie the Fathers Vision it coulde no otherwise be saith he but that the droppe of water with continual falling should at length make a hole in the stoane and that the thing in time should be brought to passe that was so earnestly intended There then speaking particularly of the meanes by which Gods prouidence brough him to Saluation and to become a Christian man among other thinges he saith that his Father was muche furthered with a vision in a dreame wherewith saith he God oftentimes benefiteth 〈…〉 soule which he accompteth worthy to be saued It seemed vnto him in his dreame that he sange that verse of Dauid the Prophete Laetatus sum in ijs quae dicta sunt mihi in demum Domini ibimus Psal 121. that is to saye as he vttereth it out of the seuenty Interpreters It reioised me to heare them that said vnto me Come on let vs goe into the howse of our Lord. This vision he tolde his wife She being very glad of it as hauing assured hope that her long praier and desire was heard interpreting it to the best sense and signifying vnto him how great fauour God shewed vnto him made al the haste she could possibly that he were Christened fearing as her sonne writeth lest by differring some thing might happen in the meane while that should be a hinderance to that blessed calling and defeit al 〈◊〉 she had so much and so long gonne about to bring to affecte To be shorte within a while after she founde the meane that he was Christened by the holy Father Leontius Bishop of that Dioces at what time out of al coaster of the worlde the Bishoppes repaired to Nicaea there to holde a General Councel to the condemnation of the heresie of Arius After this he liued a holy life and at length by Gods prouidence he was promoted vnto the bishoprike of Naziâ—nzum This much is though in a farre larger
processe declared by S. Gregorie Nazianzene in the Oration which he made at the burial of his Father Whereby it is made cleare to al menne how his Father was holpen by his wife not as being a Bishop as M. Iewel doth vntruly say but as yet being an Infidel That her sonne reporteth of her that she was vnto his Father a helper a guide a leader Faithful vviues haue ben cause of their husbandes conuersion to the faith Monica S. Augustines Mother laboured to coÌ„uert Patricius her husband Confessionum li. 9. cap. 9. a Captaine an instructour a teacher a maistresse in religion and godlinesse al this is to be vnderstanded of the time in which he remained an vnbeleuer not of the time in which he was Bishop of Nazianzum Herein she did the parte that many other godly and faithful wiues haue donne who haue vsed the like diligence and care to bring their husbandes being Infidels vnto the faith of Christe That holy woman Monica S. Augustines mother did the like with her husband Patricius of whom he writeth thus in his booke of Confessions speaking vnto God as there his manner is Tradita vira seruiuit veluti Domino sategit cum lucrari tibi c. When she was married out vnto her husband she serued him as if he had ben her Maister and tooke care how she might winne him vnto thee ô Lorde Againe he said there afterwarde Virâ—m sâ—â—m iam in extrema vita temporall eiuâ— lucrata est tibi She wanne her husband vnto thee ô Lorde now in the ende of his temporal life In consideration that God oftentimes worketh such grace by the wife to the winning of the husband vnto God S. Paule requireth that a Christian woman put not awaie her husband from her being an infidel if he coÌ„sent to dwel with her For how knowest thou o woman saith he whether thou shalt saue thy husband or no 1. Cor. 7. Either you haue read these thinges M. Iewel in the place from whence you tooke the wordes which here you allege or you trusted the gatherer of your Notes If you trusted your gatherer you should haue tried the testimonie wel before you had spoken so peremptorily If you haue readde and seene al this in that you haue conceeled the truth and spoken so much to the contrary you shew your selfe to be one that is litle to be trusted Certainely al menne may nowe see howe iust cause I haue not to take these fittons and corruptions againe vnto me but to leaue them with you and to charge you with them as I did before in my Confutation of your Apologie After this M. Iewel bringeth in a great meany of Doctours sayinges with whiche they commende Marriage and seeme to blame them that despised and condemned Marriage and were of the opinion that a man could not be saued if he were married Whereunto I thinke al answere needeles for asmuch as we are not they that condemne Marriage as it hath now ben oftentimes said we esteme it as honorable and where marriage is lawful and lawfully vsed we accoÌ„pt that bed vnspotted and cleane as S. Paule calleth it Mary we say Heb. 13. that who soeuer haue bound them selues to liue in continencie by soleÌ„ne Vow as Priestes and Religious persons for them it is not lawful to marrie and their Marriage is vnlawful or rather none at al. Against whiche doctrine M. Iewel hath nothing to say nor to allege and yet touching Marriage he hath filled a great deale of paper with the doctours sayinges So ready he is to bring muche and so litle hable to bring ought that maketh clearely for him What thinges certaine Fathers haue writen against impure heretikes dispraising marriage in al men VVith vvhat stuffe M. Ievv furnisheth out this pointe at large Defence Pag. 187. 188. 189. the same he allegeth now as if they were spoken against the Catholikes condemning the Marriage of these Apostates He bringeth in a long saying of Origen spoken of the Marcionistes and Cerdonistes and such others He allegeth Epiphanius against the filthy Origenians Chrysostome against wicked wemen that keping the name of Maides liued worse then hartlots in the Stewes Briefely so many mo as he founde old and late writers of al sortes speaking bitterly against the impune life of il menne and wemen Whereunto I answere briefly As al the married Apostates approche neare vnto the filthinesse of Deuils so some of the Catholique Clergie and religious personnes be farre from the purenesse of Angelles God geue vs al grace to amende that is amisse and you M. Iewel a better harte and more charitie towardes his Church With which grace being endewed you wil take lesse pleasure in reporting il of her Ministers I neede not here after this sorte to trauaile any farther in this matter against Maister Iewel What soeuer is beside that whiche I haue here answered in the whole booke of his pretensed Defence touching thâ—… point it is either not worth the answering as altogether impertinent or sufficiently refelled in my former Confutation Compare the one with the other Christian Reader and if thou be hable to iudge of these thinges assure thy selfe my sayd Confutation maie satisfie thee for ought that M. Iewel bringeth Now bicause it were infinite to stand vppon euery pointe and to discusse so many tedious and impertinent allegations I thinke it more conuenient to vse an other waie and by laying together certaine his Vntruthes to make shorter worke M. Iewels Vntruthes and flatte Lies concerning the Marriage of Priestes and Votaries He steineth the authoritie of S. Hierome S. Chrysostome Pag. 165. S. Gregorie Nazianzen and diuers other learned and ancient Fathers as disgracing lawful Matrimonie and the Marriage of Widowes and Widowers He saith S. Hierome in Catalogo witnessed that Tertullian was a married Priest Pag. 166. The place wil shew this vntruth Albeit I denie not but that he was married before he was Priest and so were diuers others as Spiridion S. Gregorie Nazianzenes Father Gregorius Nyssenus and certaine others He saith S. Hilarie Bishoppe of Poitiers was married and that he prooueth by an Apocryphal epistle to one Abra his daughter These toies are vaine and more fabulous then Esops fables So he maketh Prosper the bishop of Rhegium a married man vpon a felender coniecture how soeuer it be it can not be prooued that he was married after that he was Bishop that is ynough for vs. He saith that Polycrates had seuen of his Fathers Bishops before him The meaning of the testimonie alleged for that purpose is that seuen of his howse and kinred had benne Bishoppes in his Churche before him For so signifieth the Greeke worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as is before noted That which he allegeth vnder the name of Pope Damasus is intitled in the Decrees Palea as muche to say Chaffe by which name in the Decrees of Gratian that is signified which is by some other maÌ„
of God Traditions c. The second Chapter Ievvel Pag. 193. In prooem in prouer Salomon Touching the booke of the Machabees vve saie nothing but that vve finde in S. Hierome S. Augustine and they holy fathers S. Hierom saith the Church receiueth them not emong the Canonical allovved scriptures Harding The bookes of the Machabees canonical emonge the faithful S. Hierome speaketh of such Canonical Scriptures of the olde Testament as the very Iewes allowed for Canonical Such in deede the bookes of the Machabees are not But why haue you not alleged S. Augustines wordes as wel as S. Hieromes Certainely bicause they condemne you For if yee said al that of the bookes of the Machabees which S. Augustine saith you would allowe them for Canonical Scriptures amonge faithful Christians August de De Ciuitat Dei lib. 18. ca. â—6 He saith Machabaeorum libros non Iudaei sed Ecclesia pro Canonicis habet As for the bookes of the Machabees not the Iewes but the Church accoÌ„pteth them for Canonical Hereunto I maiâ— adde but M. Iewel and his Companions accompte not the bookes of the Machabees for Canonical 〈◊〉 theâ—â—in they are of the Iewes Synagog and not of the Church of Christ Now see good Reader â–ª 〈…〉 be made when he said as thou findest noted in the mâ—rgeâ— of his booke Pag. 191. that he would denie no more then S. Austine S. Hierom and other Fathers haue â—enied If you say ye deny not the bookes of the Machabees â–ª 〈◊〉 â—eproue you praying for the dead which is so sufficiâ—â—â—y proued by those bookes Soothly if you allow the one you must allow the other Ievvel Pag. 193. S. Iames epistle Eusebius saith S. Iames Epistle vvas vvritten by some other and not by S. Iames VVe must vnderstand saith Eusebius that it is a bastard epistle Harding You haue abused Eusebius For he leaueth not there but goeth forward shewing what he ment by his word li. 2. c. 23. li. 2. c. 23. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whiche you turne is a bastard But Ruffinus more ciuilly translated it à noÌ„nullis non recipitur The epistle is not receiued of some men And Eusebius him selfe addeth Nos tameÌ„ scinius etiaÌ„ istas cuÌ„ caeteris publicè aplerisque fuisse Ecclesiis receptas Yet we know that S. Iames and S. Iudes Epistles with the rest haue ben publikely receiued of most Churches wherby we learne that Eusebius meaÌ„t by the worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 asmuch to say as it is accompted of some men not to be S. Iames owne Touching his owne iudgement he sheweth him selfe to be of the opinion that it is S. Iames epistle Of some he coÌ„fesseth by those wordes that it was doubted of Therfore you haue reported Eusebius vntruly making him to pronounce negatiuely of the epistle which directly he hath not don Iewel S. Hierome saith It is said that the Epistle of S. Iames vvas set forth by some other man vnder his name Hiero. iâ— catalogâ— Harding I graunte But S. Hierom had said before those wordes which you allege Vnam tantum scripsit Epistolam quae de septem Catholicis est He wrote onely one epistle which is one of the seuen Canonical Epistles Hiero. iâ— catalogâ— Ecclesi script Againe after the wordes by you alleged it followeth that the said epistle in processe of time hath obteined authoritie Ievvel 194. VVe Lutherans and Zuinglians agree throughly together in the vvhole substance of the Religion of Christe Harding I perceiue the Sacrament of Christes body and bloud is no substantial point with you and yet he that receiueth it vnworthily 1. Cor. 11. receiueth his damnation And he can not receiue it worthily who beleeueth amisse of it But either the Lutherans or the Zuinglians or bothe beleeue amisse thereof bicause in that behalfe they â—eache cleane contrary doctrine Therefore either both as the truth is or one of those two sectes as them selues must confesse receiueth alwaies vnworthily and consequently they must confesse that one of the two sectes is vtterly damned without any hope of saluation And certainely the Zuinglians as also the Caluinistes are the worse bicause they beleeue Goddes word lesse in some degree then Luther taught and go further from the literal sense of his Gospel 1. Timo. 3. and from the beleefe of the Church which is the piller of truthe Iewel 194. The Church is not God nor is able of her selfe to make or alter any article of the faith Harding Esai 59. Ioan. 14. But she is the spouse of God and to her he hath promised both his wordes and his spirite to remaine with her for euer And therefore she is the chiefe witnes of al the articles of the faith Wherefore seing you hearâ— not her witnesse you ought to be vnto vs as an Heathen Matt. 18. and a Publican Iewel Isai 8. Esaie saith to the lavv rather and to the testimonie If they ansvver not according to this vvorde they shal haue no Morning light Harding Iere. 31. Hebre. 8. This lawe is written also in our hartes as Ieremie and S. Paul doo witnesse And the successours of the Apostles geue also a testimonie of Christe no lesse Ioan. 15. then Christe said the Apostles should doo Therefore the lawe and testimonie whereunto Esaie calleth is as wel that which is written in faithful mennes hartes and which is witnessed in the Church as that which is written in the olde and new Testament Iewel Pag. 194. M. Harding saith further If quietnesse of Conscience comme of the vvorde of God onely then had Abel no more quietnesse of conscience then vvicked restlesse Cain c. VVho vvould thinke that M. Harding bearing suche a countenance of Diuinitie vvould thus goe about to deceiue him false vvith a pointe of Sophistrie Harding Who would thinke that M. Iewel being pressed with a point whereunto he is not hable to make answere would not thus go about to deceiue his vnlearned Reader with a point of Sophistrie I praie thee reader take the paines to peruse what the Apologie saith what I haue said in my CoÌ„futation and what M. Iewel bringeth in the Defence touching this matter I desire no more but that thou read it and then iudge as thou seest cause It is an easy matter for M. Iewel when he hath made me to speake what he listeth to frame an answere accordingly But I must alwaies warne the reader not to beleue M. Iewel when so euer he reporteth either my wordes or any other mannes M. Ievv shifteth him selfe from Scripture to Goddes vvorde but to repaire to the Original Fot seldom is he founde cleere of the crime of falsifying And here he entwiteth me of Sophistrie wheras in deede he vseth the grossest sleight of Sophistrie him selfe He conueigheth him selfe from the Canonical Scriptures to Goddes worde Now I spake of the Scriptures and he answereth of Goddes worde Defence pag 191. Whereas it is said in the Apologie that
But you misse M. Iewel What soeuer God commaundeth but for a time it is his worde And whatsoeuer his ministers do commaunde as profitable to the Church for the present tyme it is Gods word as him selfe said Luke 10. He that heareth you heareth me He that despiseth you despiseth me How be it S. Basil speaketh not altogether as you reporte He maketh not al Traditions equal with Gods worde simply and in al respectes he speaketh of three thinges of Doctrines written and doctrines vnwritte and of customes for which we haue no scripture Of the vnwritten doctrines it is that he speaketh not of customes that they haue equal force with the written doctrines ad pietatem to traine vs to godlinesse As touching vnwritten customes many thinke your example false For we were neuer forbidden to kneele at al vpon the Sonnedaie but at our Lordes prayer whiles it is said at Masse time as some interprete it At which time al the Popes Chappel to this daie vseth to stand vp and not to kneele Iewel Pag. 195. The reste of S. Basiles traditions stand in hallovving of vvater and blessing of oile c. Harding Those Traditions which belong to Sacramentes as that of the blessing of the oile doth maie neuer be changed Those that are mere ceremonial maie be abrogated by custom as the thrife dipping of the childe or of any other that is to be baptized and such others the like which neither S. Basile nor we euer made equal with Goddes expresse worde Iewel Pag. 196. S. Paule saying holde the Traditions which yee haue receiued 2. Thess 2. either by epistle or by worde calleth them traditions although thei vvere conteined in his epistles and deliuered to them by vvriting Harding And also though they were not deliuered by writing You leaue out halfe For he saith by writing or per sermonem that is to saie by speache The writing contemed wordes ergo the speache which differeth from writing were wordes without writing Iewel Pag. 196. VVhereas S. Paule vvil haue his ovvne thinges to be kepte Hieron in 2. Thes 2. he vvil haue no straunge thinges thereto to be added Harding We adde no strange thinges but beleeue that S. Paule preached and deliuered the Sacrifice of the Masse vnto the faithful people so plainly in practise and wordes that the writing was not hable to shew his minde so fully in that behalfe And by Tradition we haue as wel that which he taught by practise as that which he preached whether he wrote it or no. Iewel Pag. 197. S. Paule by the vvord Traditions meant not Ceremonies or certaine secrete vnknovven Verities â— Cor. 15. but the substance of the Gospel I haue deliuered vnto you that Christ died for our sinnes saieth he Harding M. Ievvels Secret vnknovven verities He meant not only Ceremonies I graunt And as for secrete vnknowen verities we haue no suche excepte you are so mad as to cal praying for the dead a secrete vnknowen veritie which hath euen benne knowen to al menne yea wemen and children in the Church of God And that custome of praying for the dead S. Paule did teach as wel as al other the Apostles as Tradition telleth vs Homil. 69. Ad populuÌ„ AntiocheÌ„ witnessed also by S. Chrysostom So that as the whole Gospel commeth vnto vs by Tradition so doth Masse Dirige Holy water Lenten fast and others Iewel Pag. 197. Epist â—6 S. Augustine findeth is not appointed by Christ or the Apostles vvhat daies vve ought to fast Harding Lenten fast is not founde in the Apostles vvritinges but in the Apostolike Traditions Aug. in epist 86. You kepe your kinde in alleging thinges out of their kinde S. Augustine there speaketh of that which is to be founde in the writinges of the Apostles For thus it went before In Apostolicis literis in the Apostolike writinges There he findeth not the Lenten fast But he findeth it in the Apostolike TraditioÌ„s saying in the very same epistle In his rebus de quibus nihil certâ— statuit scriptura diuina mos populi Dei vel instituta maioruÌ„ prolege â—edendasunt Looke in what thinges the holy Scripture hath determined nothing of certaintie the custome of the people of God oâ— the ordinauÌ„ces of the Forfathers Custom is a lavve are to be kept as a lawe Marke that the custom of Gods people must be â—olden for a law prolege for a law M. Iewel It is the epistle alleged by you that saith TraditioÌ„s and customes must be kept for a law And his owne wordes another where are Vt quadraginta illi dies ante Pascha obseruetur Augustin epist 118. Ecclesiae consuetudo roborauit That the fortie daies before Easter should be kepte the custome of the Church hath confirmed and strengthened it And generally he saith Quae non scripta sed tradita custodimus quae quidem toto terrarum orbe obseruantur dantur intelligi vel ab ipsis Apostolis vel plenarijs Concilijs commendata atque statuta retineri Looke what thinges we kepe not being written but deliuered by tradition which are obserued al the worlde ouer thereof intelligence is geuen vs that they be kepte in vre as thinges coÌ„mended vnto vs and ordeined either by the Apostles them selues or by the General Councelles Nowe seing the Faste of the fortie dayes was and is generally kepte in the Churche and yet not firste commaunded by any general Councel it remaineth according to S. Augustines rule that it was instituted of the Apostles And S. Hierome by name saith it came from the Apostles In fidei regula discrepamus We differ in the rule of faith from the Montanistes For they denie three persons confounding them into one They accompt the second Marriages as il as Aduoutrie and make three Lenten fastes Nos vnam Quadragesimam secundùm traditionem Apostolorum toto anno tempore nobis congruo ieiunamus We faste at a time conuenient one Lent in the whole yere according to the Traditions of the Apostles Iewel 199. M. Harding saith Persona Ingenitus Homousion are not founde in the scriptures but the sense and meaning is found there Harding So is the sense and meaning of Masse of transubstantiation and of praying to Saintes founde there Iewel Pag. 200. Gennadius saith the perpetual Virginitie of our Ladie is proued sufficiently by scriptures In catalogo Harding Gennadiin catal in Heluid This is a lowde lie Trie it out who wil Gennadius saith not so but only that S. Hieromes booke which he wrote against Heluidius affirming that our Ladie bare children after she had borne Christ was sufficiently fournished with * Documentes testimonies of the Scriptures For although it be not expressely written that she was a perpetual Virgin yet the faith thereof is most agreable to the Scriptures and most certaine in Tradition But were not the Tradition so strong the Scriptures certainely might be doubtful ynough in that behalfe Iewel Pag. 200. Of God and
The Emperour Constantinus in his letters to the people of Nicomodia Theodorit li. 1. c. 19. speaking of the vvilful errours and heresies of Priestes and Bishoppes saith thus Illorum temeraria praesumptio mea hoc est ministri Christi manu coercebitur Their rashe attemptes shal be repressed by my hande that is to saie by the hande of Christes seruant August cōtra epist Parme. li. 1. cap. 7. So likevvise S. Augustine saith to the Donatistes An fortè de religione fas non est vt dicat Imperator vel quos miserit Imperator Cur ergo ad Imperatorem legati vestri venerant Is it not lavvful that the Emperour or the Emperours deputie shoulde pronounce in a case of Religion VVherefore then vvent your ovvne Ambassadours to the Emperour Harding If you had said M. Iewel that Constantinus in his epistle to the Nicomedians had threatned to pounishe Bishoppes and Priestes that were Arians that is cursed and abominable heretiques you had in some parte said the truthe But where you saie that he spake of the wilful errours and heresies of Priestes and Bishoppes and adde not Arian Priestes and Arian Bishoppes you conceele parte of the true Storie and declare your malicious hart against Priestes and Bishoppes But to leaue that cankred spite of yours to the iudgement of God why doo ye not report the Emperours wordes as they are in your authour Theodoritus M. Ievvels corruptiō Wil you neuer leaue this your accustomed vile corruption Theodoritus saith not as you reporte but thus Theodorit lib. 1. cap. 19. Quòd si quis audacter inconsultéque ad memoriam laudē pestium illarū exarserit illius statim audacia ministri Dei hoc est mea executione coercebitur If any man be inflamed boldely and incircumspectly at the remembrance and cōmendation of those wicked and pestilent heretiques his boldenes shal be repressed straightwaie by execution done by me that am the minister of God And these threatning wordes of the Emperour are to be referred to the people of Nicodemia for to them the epistle was directed And hauing tēporal iurisdiction as power of life and death ouer them he put that terrour into their hartes that they should be neither in loue nor in admiration of those accursed Bishoppes whom he had bannished for the Arian heresie Or if M. Iewel wil haue those wordes of the Emperour to be referred as wel to the Bishoppes and Priestes as to the laie people Let him vnderstand that as it is lawful for any Prince to pounish heretiques that are excommunicate by the Churche and deliuered to the secular power be they Bishoppes or priestes So it was lawful for Constantine to pounishe these wicked Arian Bishoppes excommunicated and accused by the. 318. Bishoppes in the Councel of Nice And as the prince that now as an executour of Iustice pounisheth heretikes by death is not for that cōsideration neither iudge in causes of heresie nor supreme gouernour of the Churche So Constantine at that time had no iurisdiction ouer Bishoppes in ecclesiastical causes albeit he bannished them and threatned them other pounishmēt if they fel in loue of those cursed Arians For the princes threatning of pounishment for heresie is no argument to build a superioritie in ecclesiastical causes As for the place whiche you bring out of S. Augustine you brought it before in your Replie to proue that Emperours might receiue Appeales in ecclesiastical causes Art 4. fol. 104. 105 106. And a sufficient answere was made vnto it in the Returne of Vntruthes vpon you Why conceele you that If you had ben studious of the truthe for Goddes sake you should haue yelded vnto it or if you had iudged it false haue confuted it and not let it passe in silence and now trouble the Reader with the same stuffe againe But peraduenture you wil saie that you neuer sawe that booke and therefore that you dissemble not the answer If it were credible that you would not see a booke written directely against you and one that toucheth you so neare this excuse were tolerable But seing it hath no colour of truthe there can be litle pretended to saue you from the gilte of dissimulation and hypocrisie in this case I answere you therefore as he did S. Augustine spake in that place against the stubborne Donatistes of whom Parmenianus was one whiche complained that the Emperour Constantine eos ad campum id est ad supplicium duci iussit commaunded them to be brought foorth into the fielde that is to pounishement And in reasoning against him he tooke aduantage of his owne doinges not as allowing the Appeale to the Emperour but as prouing him vnreasonable who for aduantage would appeale to the Emperour and when the Emperour had pronounced sentence against him would striue and repine at the sentence and saie that he being a temporal prince ought not to pounishe Bishoppes Like as if you M. Iewel hauing made the Queene supreme gouernour of your Churche should saie in case you were condemned of heresie or of Simonie by the Prince Her grace ought not to condemne me in these cases a Catholique that flattereth her not with that title would reason against you and saie No sir Is it not laweful for the Queene to condemne you in a case of heresie and Simonie Why then made you the Queene supreme gouernour of your Churche Euen so did S. Augustine reason against the Donatistes And bicause by their appeale to his Maiestie they had chosen him iudge in their cause and after said he could not condemne them S. Augustine vsed their owne weapon against them to cōuince their folie and said as you saie Is it not lawful that the Emperour or the Emperours deputie should pronounce in a case of Religion Wherefore then went your owne Ambassadours to the Emperour c. But as the Catholique reasoning in suche wise against you can not be said by that to allowe the Queenes supremacie So S. Augustine in this talke against the Donatistes can not be said to allowe the Emperours authoritie in condemning of Bishoppes and other ecclesiastical causes For he answering an other Donatiste that said Augustinus epist 162. Non debuit episcopus proconsulari iudicio purgari a Bishop ought not to make his purgation before a temporal magistrate said If he be worthy to be blamed whom the temporal iudge hath absolued whereas he him selfe did not require it how much more are they to be blamed whiche would haue a temporal prince to be iudge in their cause By this it appeareth that he thought that Princes could not be iudges ouer Bishoppes Ibidem Moreouer he reporteth that Constantine who appointed iudges to heare their cause did it à sanctis Antistitibus veniam petiturus as minding to aske pardon of the holy Bishoppes for his facte And the same Emperour seing their importunitie in repairing to him as iudge said Optatus li. 1. cōtra Parmen O rabida furoris audacia Sicut in causis
volume as it appeareth bothe otherwise Illyricus Luthers great defender a special Doctor of M. Ievvelles and also by your owne quotations out of that worke Yet he allegeth alwaies there and in other of his suche the like rash and false scriblinges Dominicus à Soto by his right name But this errour or ignorance might peraduenture be asscribed to some of your gatherers of stuffe and coadiutours sauing that you wil needes take vppon you al the faulte your selfe and discharge al others thereof as you haue admonished the reader in your View of Vntruthes where thus you saie what soeuer errour shal be founde in any my writinges I wil discharge bothe my Clerke and the Compositour and the Printer of the same and take the whole vpon my selfe Moreouer to shew your constancie in this errour B. iij. b. you doo allege Pag. 499. Petrus à Soto de natura gratia whereas he neuer wrote any suche worke but Dominus à Soto And herein it is to be noted also that you neither quote the number of the booke nor of the Chapter where that saying is to be founde But by like you went by heresaie and reporte and so lefte your reader to seeke at aduenture that he should either not finde or elles so hardly find that he would be lothe to take the paines to looke for it You tel me in an other place that my frende Catharinus saith I can not tel what of Schole writers Pag. 571. and you referre me in the Margent to a booke of his against Petrus a Soto But I am sure you neuer sawe any such booke against that person Wel it might be against Dominicus a Soto A man maie thinke that you reade these thinges with spectacles of a false sighte that you were neuer hable to discerne Dominicus from Petrus or elles that you wrote yow knewe not what in a dreame Pag. 169. AlphoÌ„sus de Castro mistaken by M. Ievvel for AlphoÌ„sus Viruesius Bishop of the Canaries You allege vnto me about vowes one of my greatest Doctours as you cal him Alphonsus de Castro Philippica 19. Howe great soeuer he be with me it maie be iustely said that you are greatly beholding vnto him if he make so often for you as you allege him For he hath holpen you with stuffe euen for your owne tooth as you haue handled the matter But I praie you did you euer see his Philippicas bicause you allege the 19 I know not what spectacles you vse but if you reade no better and were in case as some be who haue not murdered so many bodies as you haue soules you might be put to a harde disstresse in time of neede at the Sessions and be refused for not reading vt Clericus For as it appeareth your reading is quite beside the booke Shew me any suche booke of Alphonsus de Castro and you shal be quitte by Proclamation of al your false reportes which are more and greater then a man would weene that is not acquainted with your writinges I remember that one Alphonsus Viruesius Episcopus Canariensis made suche a worke against Philip Melanchton and called the Treaties of it Philippicas as I haue tolde you before Pag. 345. Endeuouring to disgrace as muche as you can godly and perfite obedience you doo contemptuously speake your pleasure Cassianus lib. 4. cap. 27. de Institutis coenobiorum Pag. 51. Zarabella de Sectis alleged by M. Ievv vvhereas he neuer vvrote any suche booke M. Ievvel allegeth Illyricus the heretike vnder the name of zabarella vvhom he meaneth by zarabella Defence Pag. 618. Ioannes Camotensis a Doctor of M. Ievvelles neuer knovveÌ„ Confu so 286. Defence pag. 613. and yet bicause you would not seeme to speake vnto vs without some authoritie you bring in Cassander lib. 4. cap. 27. But certain it is you misse the cuishon and haue mistaken your marke in not discerning betwen Cassianus and Cassander and naming the one for the other whiche faulte might be laide to the Printer but that yee haue taken the mater in hande your selfe In purling in the Canonistes for sayinges that might be wrested against the Pope you tel vs a tale out of Franciscus Zabarella de Sectis 115. Whether you haue seene any authour called Zarabella by which name you alwaies allege him I doo more then doubte It maie be that you meane Zabarella for that is his right name But yet can you not shewe vs any booke that euer he made de Sectis I wis M. Iewel you should haue written Illyricus De Sectis your owne greate frende You doo also allege in three diuers places Videlicet pag. 639. 648. 694. your the same Zabarella de Schemale Concilio I would aske you what is meant there by those wordes de Schemate Should it not be trow you de Schismate About Ioannes Camotensis you plaie and dallie euen as a fishe with the hooke til he be caught faste by the iawe You seeme to please your selfe muche in controlling my ghesse But therein at length you bewraie your owne ignorance and proue your selfe not to be so wise and wel learned as you would be taken in your owne authours alleged Bicause I said what worshipful Doctour you meane by Camotensis I know not You added in the margent If I knew him noâ— I might best blame myne ignorance But how iustely you are to be blamed of ignorance in the selfe same matter your selfe wherein you take your selfe to be so great a doctour let euery vpright Reader iudge After you haue a while skornefully tolde me whom I might haue ghessed this authour to be as Fulbertus Carnotensâ—â— or Ioannes Sarisburiensis otherwise called by some as you saie Rupertus Carnotensis you pronounce at length the definitiue sentence very saddely with these wordes But in deed this writers name is Ioannes Carnotensis alleged by Cornelius Agrippa Cornel. Agrippa As for Agrippas allegation it maketh no force for he is not of so honest same but that exception maie lawfully be taken against his person and therefore he is meeter for your purpose Albeit in this case it maie be that the Printer was in fault and not Agrippa him selfe And how easily Camotensis is made of Carnotensis by change of rnÌ„ into mÌ„ who perceiueth not And so would Agrippa saie were he aliue there is no doubt But you affirme plainely without al doubt that in deede it is Ioannes Camotensis that was a Bishop And there you doo very odiously without al cause make a coÌ„parison betwene him and certaine others only to serue your owne scoffing humour But Sir I praie you for asmuch as you wil haue him in deede to be a Bishop Cornel. Agrippa de vanitate ScieÌ„tiarum cap. â—1 be so good as tel vs whether he be called Camotensis of his countrie or of his Bishoprike Your great substantial Doctor Cornelius Agrippa seemeth to signifie if the Printer haue not deceiued him that he had that name of his Bishoprike calling him Ioannes Camotensis
Episcopus But whether he beareth that name of the one or of the other it maketh no great matter If it be so it remaineth that you can tel vs in what parte of the worlde whether in Asia in Aphrica or in Europa or in the new founde landes there be any place of that name I thinke you must be faine to looke ouer al the Geographical tables and bookes you haue and borrowe some of your felowes too and put on your spectales of the best sight and yet for al that I warrant you not finde it except it be in Vtopia Wel M. Iewel that you maie vnderstande that the more occasion you geue me to seeke the more I finde matter of Vntruthe and ignorance to charge you withal I tel you in deede that you haue named Ioannes Camotensis in steede of Ioannes Carnotensis if you haue respecte to his Bishoprike Ioannes Camotensis must be Ioānes Sarisburiensis vvho vvas Bishop of Chartres in France and thereof in Latine called Carnotensis Defence pag. 613. But if you wil haue his Countrie signified then must you cal him Ioannes Salesberiensis or Sarisburiensis choose whether as you haue done Pag. 132. I might saie that this Ioannes Sarisburiensis was a Bishop in al respectes farre better to vse your owne wordes not then Leontius Hippolytus or Clemens as it liketh you to skoffe at those learned and blessed Bishoppes but then Iohn Iewel of Sarisburie if you naming your selfe Iohn of Sarisburie could iustly be accompted any Bishop at al. But betwen a Bishop and no Bishop in this behalfe there can be no comparison This is not the first time that you haue alleged your witnesses by a blinde gheasse hearesaie or reporte not hauing seene their bookes nor knowing what the Authours were You can saie much by rote and prou◠litle by skil as in many other places but here moste euidently it appeareth For if you had knowen that your Ioannes Camotensis is the selfe same Ioannes Sarisburiensis otherwise named Carnotensis for that he was in his time Bishop of Chartres in Fraunce Pag. 132. named Carnotum in Latine whiche you haue alleged before out of his woorke entitled Polycraticon but neuer declaring out of what booke thereof being eight bookes in the whole or what Chapter bicause yee neuer readde the place in the Authour him selfe but receiued it by the waie of almes of frier Bale Flacius Illyricus or some suche other if I saie you had knowen so muche as you might if you had taken the paine to peruse the Polycration your selfe you would neuer haue made so muche a doo about so smal a matter Now for your better instruction and fuller satisfaction maie it please you to vnderstand that he whiche is misnamed in Epitome Bibliothecae Gesneri Ioannes Camotensis is in Partitionibus eiusdem Gesneri tituli 5. fol. 95. rightly called Ioannes Carnotensis And that your Ioannes Camotensis is by you blindly mistaken for Ioannes Carnotensis it euidently appeareth by the sentences alleged by your owne Necromantical Doctor Cornelius Agrippa and by an other of the Spritish sort of your gospel Paulus Scalichius in his railing Libel De Choraea Monachorum Paul Scalichius and by lying Illyricus in Catalogo testium veritatis which are adscribed by Baudy Bale 2. Centur. Scriptorum Britanniae pag. 212. too Ioannes Carnotensis out of his Polycraticon And in deed they are there to be founde albeit not to that purpose that al the packe of your holy brethren haue vntruely alleged them for And therefore neuer a one of you al hath quoted either number of the booke or Chapter where any of those sentences are to be founde lest your falsehed might haue benne espied and that by reading the whole discourse of the places your euil purpose should haue benne nothing furthered but much hindred But if it wil please either you or the Reader to peruse the 16. chapter of the 5. booke and the 24. of the 6. booke of the sayd Polycraticon you for your parte shal haue occasion to vnderstand your errour and folie and the Reader for his parte not to be deceiued with your blinde reporte Pag. 51. Cusanus sovvly and ignorantly belied of M. Iew. You beare your Reader in hand pag. 51. that Nicolaus Cusanus wrote a booke entituled de Auctoritate Ecclesiae Concilij supra contra Scripturam Of the Authoritie of the Churche and Councel aboue and against the Scripture And as though you had seene the booke and wel perused it you referre your Reader thereunto in 14. mo places of this your pretensed Defence as it shal appeare to him A false forged booke odiously attributed by M. Ievv to Cardinal Cusanus in xv Sundri◠places that wil take the paines to turne to these pages here truely quoted 53. 55. 78. 157. 331. 438. 439. 474. 558. 593. 665. 674. 704. 724. Now M. Iewel notwithstanding al these quotations of yours if you be hable to shewe vs any booke of Cusanus so entituled either in print or in autenticke written hande I wil saie that you wil proue your selfe a truer man then euer I tooke you to be But bicause this maie litle moue you I wil more adde on the contrary side if you be not hable to shewe the same after so many allegations out thereof it wil consequently folowe that you are a shamelesse man I might saie a false harlot If a man were disposed to dally with you in a matter most certaine as you vse to doo with others when you thinke you haue gotten any smal shadowe of some counterfeit aduantage for an vndoubted example whereof I referre the readers to the page 414. he might perchaunce dash you quite out of countenance and deface you for euer yea euen before your frendes and the flattering vpholders of your dooinges which would greeue you at the harte Now might one chalenge you and saie M. Iewel if you be hable to shew any booke or halfe booke oration or epistle or any litle pamphlet whereunto Cusanus hath geuen this title then wil the Catholiques graunt you more then euer you were hable to gete yet at their handes If you haue al the bookes in your studie either of your owne or of other menne that you allege then bring the booke with this title forth and you shal discharge your selfe of a most impudent lie and sclaunder And if you be hable so to doo then I praie you let it be proclaimed by you with your booke in your hand at Powles crosse as you haue done at other times to your worship forsooth that al the worlde maie beare witnesse thereof Verely M. Iewel it appeareth that you haue readde more then you vnderstand or at least then you haue liste to vnderstand and yet you allege more then euer you readde in the bookes whereunto you referre vs as it maie wel be proued by this present example and many other the like You maie beshrewe him to whom you gaue so light credite herein Couet not praise by