14. Ninthly Nothing can make the church inuisible I proue that the Church could not be inuisible because there is nothing which can make that the Church professe not her fayth For if any thing most of all persecution But as the waters did lift vp the Arck of Nöe which was a figure of the church so do persecutions raise vp the church and make her more knowne And as the heauen in day tyme all shineth but at might glittereth in the starres so the church in tyme of peace flourisheth in all her members but in tyme of persecution is most glorious in her constant soldiers And there are many and most excellent testimonies of the holy Fathers how that the Church is by persecution made more pure more famous and more plentifull which one may read in SS Iustin Irenaeus Tertullian Gregory Nazianzen Hilary Ambrose Hierome Augustin Leo Theodorete Gregory the great others I according to my purpose will alleage only the testimonies of Protestants Luther vpon the 1. psalme tom 3. fol. 125 The faythfull whiles they are killed do encrease while they are diminished do multiply And vpon the 9. of Isaias tom 4. fol. 84 The Church is made fruithfull with the bloud of the Godly and increaseth Caluin against Seruet pag. 595 The true and proper church rising vnder persecution flourished vnder the same The like he hath vpon the 2. Tim. cap. 2. and Philip 1. Lubberia lib. 5. de Eccles cap. 3 The true Church grew vnder suffering persecutions And the Apology of the English Church in the end This flame the more it is kept downe so much the more with greater sorce and strength doth it breake out and fly abroad D. Fulke of Succession pag. 255 I acknowledge that the Church is so farre from being extinguished by the persecution of the materiall sword that I graunt it giueth her occasion to delate and extend her bounds For so as Tertullian sayth well the bloud of Mâ—rtyrs is the seed of the Church This all that are not starck blind do see to haue happened to our Church For how much the more Antichrist raged with fire and sword so much the more famous she became And D. Whitaker Cont. 2 quest 5. cap. 4. pag. 501 Persecutions destroy not the Kingdome of Christ but make it more famous And Cont. 4. quest 5. cap. 2. pag. 669 VVhen tyrants raâ—ed against the church religion suffered no losse yea then most of all flourished How then could the Protestant church if it were the true church of God become inuisible before Luther arose by persecution 15. If any reply that this is true of violent persecution of the heathens but not of persecutions by fraud deceit as is the persecution of Antichrist which made the Protestant Church in former tyms to become inuisible I answere that first he speaketh voluntary without all proofe Againe that the English Apology and D. Fulke speake namely of Antichrists persecution meaning the Pope which they say hath since Luthers tyme made their church more famous How then could it before his tyme make it inuisible Moreouer the scripture and holy Fathers teach that Antichrist shall rage most cruelly against the Church and Protestants affirme that the Pope whome they will haue to be Antichrist hath byn so cruell against Protestants as any Herode Nero Domitian may seeme to haue byn mild if they be compared to him Finally heretikes do by fraud persecute the Church and neuerthelesse the Apostle saith There must be heresies 1. Cor. 10. that those who be tryed may be made manifest So farre is fraudulent persecution from making the Church inuisible as it maketh the tried faythfull to be manifest And both S. Augustin oftentymes others obserue that heresies haue byn occasion of great increase of knowledge vnto the Church 16. Tenthly I proue ProtestaÌ„ts inferre an inuisible Church to be no Church that the Church cannot become inuisible because Protestants do often inferre such and such a Church or company not to haue byn because it was not seene as in the Preface of the Protocoll of Frankentall they proue the Anabaptists were not before the year 1525. Because say they if you read all stories you shall find no people from the beginning of the world who had a Confession of fayth like vnto yours But by the same manner it were easy to proue that Protestants were not before Luther For as Spalatinus in his relation of their CoÌ„fession of Auspurg boasteth One shall not find such a Confession neither in any history neither in any ancient Father or Doctor In Luther tom 9. German And Fox in his Protestation before his Acts sayth that of their Church there is no mention made in Histories Luther also vpon the 3. chap. ad Galat. tom 5. fol. 358. writeth that of his principall opinion nothing is read in books of Monks of Canonists of Scholmen yea nor in the books of ancient Fathers There was a wonderfull silence of it for many ages in all schooles and Churches Likewise when one sayd that the Roman Church was a member of the Catholike Church Caluin in his Answere ad Versipellem pag. 359. sayd I do not gainsay that the Roman Church is a member of the Catholike if he could shew a Church at Rome Which supposeth that no Church is where it cannot be shewed When Bellarmine sayd that beside the Synagogue of the Iewes there were in Elias tyme Churches amongst the Gentils D. Whitaker Cont. 2. quest 3. cap. 3. pag. 475. thus answered If they say that God had other Churches let them shew them and tell which they were and where they were And D. Rainolds in his 12. Prefection vpon the scripture col 106. inferreth that none of the Synagogue did belieue those bookes of Scripture which they deny to be canonicall because we cannot name any When D. Harding sayd that there was such an heresy M. Iewel art 2. diuis 8. pag. 75. denying it sayth It must needs be a very straung heresy that neuer had neither beginning nor ending nor defender nor reprouer nor mouth to speake it nor eare to heare it nor pen to write nor tym to last in nor place to rest in And if an heresy must be heard of certainly much more the Church of God When Beza impugned the Arians thus he discourseth epist 18. pag 98 If their opinion be true we bid them shew where there Church hath byn sith from the propagation of the ghospell it is easy to demonstrate that neuer any one held any such thing who was not condemned by the perpetuall consent of the Church And he addeth epist 81 Certainly there hath byn no true Church if these men teach truth When the Bohemians would proue that they had borrowed nothing of the Anabaptists thus they write in the Preface of their Confession Our Congregation was long tyme before any thing was heard of the Anabaptists or their name knowne in the world Finally M. Bancroft in his Suruey of the
Heathens Pagans and infidells And in his Apology for the Switzers Churches he defineth Schisme to be a separation from the rest of the body of the Catholike Church Zanchius also in his treatise of the Church cap. 7. reacheth that Schismatikes are not in the Church And suâ—us in his 3. booke of the Church c. 5. approueth the fame of such Schismatikes as separate themselues from the whole Church The strangers in England writing to Beza in the 24 epistle haue these words in their 13. article VVhosoeuer is lawfully excommunicated of a particuler Church or cutteth himselfe of vpon vnlawfull causes and with scandall in that doth loose all priuiledge of the Catholike Church And Beza answereth them in the name of the Church of Geneua in this manner Your thirteenth article we wholy receiue at most orthodoxall Casaubon in his 15. exercitation against Baronius num 6. It is an vndoubted truth that how often soeuer a pious flock is ioyned to a true Bishop there is a Church of God in so much that if any forsake that Church it cannot be doubted but that he is out of the Church Finally Chamier in his epistle to Armand excludeth Schismatikes out of the Church because sayth he they want the sincerity of the Sacraments English ProtestaÌ„ts Amongst our English Protestants his Maiesty in his foresayd epistle to Cardinall Peron All those testimonies of Augustin proue only this that there is no hope of saluation for those who leaue the Communion of the Catholike Church which the King willingly graunteth D. Whitaker in his 2. controuer 5. quest 6. cap. sayth It is false that hereticall and Schismaticall Churches be true Churches Againe The Catholike Church consisteth not of diuided but of vnited members And cap. 2 The true and Catholike Church is that which consisteth of Catholiks D. Fulke in his booke of the succession of the Church VVhat auailed it them to eternall saluation to haue byn sound in Religion and doctrine seing they were cut of from the Communion of the true Church in which alone saluation is and from her true head VVhat skilleth it whether one being drawne by heresy or Schisme from the body of Christ be subiect to euerlasting damnation D. Humfrey in his answere to the 3. reason of F. Campian VVe confesse that he is vndone who is separated from the followship of the Church And D. Feild in his first booke of the Church cap. 7 The name of the Catholike Church is applyed to distinguish men holding the sayth in vnity from Schismatiks And in his 2. booke c. 2. he sayth that Schismatikes are not Catholike Christians Thus we see how Protestants sometymes do teach that the true Church consisteth of Catholiks of members vnited not deuided that it hath no Schismes or Sects That Schismatiks are not Catholiks that their vnity is not true nor Catholike that their Churches ought to be forsaken that they are not vniuocally Churches nor true Churches that they are not members of the true Church but out of the Church altogeather out of the Church and actually neither of the visible nor inuisible Church and that this is an vndoubted truth which coÌ„fession of theirs must be well noted and kept in mind for thereby is ouerthrowne as we shall see in the 2. booke their only argument wherwith they endeauour to proue that their Church was before Luther and also is defaced their only essentiall mark of finding the true Church by the truth of doctrine For Schismatikes as we shall heare them confesse in the 2. booke hold true doctrine and neuertheles as here they acknowledge are not of the true Church They exclude those that deny any fundameÌ„tal article 5. In like manner they do commonly debarre from their Church all such as deny any principall or fundamentall point of fayth Melancthon in his booke of common places in the title of the Church They are not members of the Church who pertinaciously maintaine errours opposite to the foundation And in his answere to the Bauarian articles Saints may haue errours but not such as ouerthrow the foundation In his examen of those that are to take orders Agreement in the foundation LutheraÌ„s is a thing necessary to the vnity of the Church And vpon the 3. cap. of the 1. epistle to Timothy The foundation is held in the Church otherwise there should be no Church at all And in his 79. proposition tom 4 It is most certaine that those companies are not the Church of God who either are altogeather ignorant of the Ghospell or impugne some article of the foundation that is some article of fayth or doctrine of the decalogue or maintaine open idols Chemnitius in his common places pa. 3. title of the Church Neither can these be acknowledged for the true Church who imbrace fundamentall errours And the Lutherans in the conference at Ratisbon Ses 14. Hutter in his Analysis of the Confession of Auspurg Gesner in his 24. place Adam Francis in his 11. place and other Lutherans commonly agree that the Church cannot erre Fundamentally or in the Foundation And the Confession of Saxony giueth this note to know who are in the Church SacrameÌ„taries Those who hold the Foundation As for Sacramentaries Caluin in his 4. booke of Institutions cap. 2. num 1 So soone as a lye hath broken into the castle of Religion the summe of necessary doctrine is inuerted the vse of Sacraments is fallen certainly the destruction of the Church ensueth euen as a mans life is lost when his throat is cut or his vitall parts deadly wounded And soone after It is certaine that there is no Church where lyes and errour haue gotten to the toppe And cap. 19. num 17 VVithout doubt the Church of the faythfull must agree in all the heads of our Religion Sadeel in his answere to the Theses held at Posna cap. 12 I thinke the matter is thus to be defined by the word of God that if any in what Church soeuer dissent in the foundation of sayth and be obstinate in their errours such appertaine not to the vnity of the Church The like he hath in his answere to Arthure cap. 12. Vesinuâ— in his Catechisme quest 54. cap. 4 The whole Church erreth not nor wholly nor in the foundation Polanus in his Thesis of the Church sayth The Church erreth not in the foundation The same teacheth Zanchius in his treatise of the Church c. 7. Lubbertus in his 2. booke of the Church c 3. Vorstius in his Anti-bellarmin pag. 139. Bucanus in his 41. place and other Sacramentaries commonly And with them herein agree our English Protestants English ProtestaÌ„ts For thus sayth his Maiesty in his epistle to Cardinall Peron The Churches are vnited in vnity of sayth and doctrine in those heads which are necessary to saluation And D. Whitaker in the preface of his Controuersies The foundations of sayth are of that nature that one being shaken nothing in all religion remaineth sound And Contr. 2. quest 4. cap.
1 We say that the Church cannot erre in things simply necessary Which he often repeateth in the 2. cap. And quest 5. cap. 17 If any fundamentall doctrine be taken away the Church straight way falleth And cap. 18 The fundamentall articles are those on which our fayth relyeth as the house vpon the foundation Againe If any fundamentall and essentiall principle of fayth be ouerturned or shaken it cannot be truly called a Church And quest 6. cap. 3 That is no true Church which taketh away one only foundation The same he teacheth in his 1. booke of the scripture cap. 7. sect 8. and cap. 12. sect 3. M. Perkins in his explication of the Creed If any man or Church retaine or defend obstinatly or of willfull ignorance a fundamentall errour we must not account them anymore Christians or Churches D. Sutliue in his first booke of the Church cap. 1 Those blemishes take away the name of the true Church which are against the grounds of fayth D. Feild in his 2. booke of the Church cap. 3 Purity free from fundamentall and essentiall errour is necessarily required in the Church D. Morton in the 1. part o◠his Apology booke 2. cap 38 Purity of doctrine in fundamentall principles of fayth is required to the being and constitution of the Church And in his answere to the Protestants Apology l. 4. c. 3. Sect. 5 The deniall of fundamentall doctrines doth exclude men from saluation and disannulleth the name of the Church in the gainsayers D. White in his way to the Church pag. 110 VVe do not thinke euery company to be the true Church that holdeth only some points of the true fayth but it is requisite that the foundation be holden And in his defence of the way cap. 17 A fundamentall point is that which belongs to the substance of fayth and is so necessary that there can be no saluation without the knowledge and explicite fayth thereof And surely they all and at all tymes ought to affirme this seeing they deliuer truth of doctrine as an essentiall marke of the Church which they must needs vnderstand and so Vorstius in his Anti-bellarmin pag. 148. expresseth it of true doctrine in fundamentall points And this their doctrine touching this matter I earnestly commend to the memory of the Reader because it is necessary to find out what a Protestant is and also is one of the grounds whereby it may appeare that there was no Protestant Church before Luther because before him there was no company which held all the same fundamentall points of doctrine which Protestants do hold 6. Finally They exclude all that deny any article of fayth they sometyms shut out of their Church all those who deny any one point of fayth be it fundamentall or other For thus writeth the Apology of the Confession of Auspurge The Church of Christ is not among them who defend naughty opinions contrary to the Ghospell And Luther in his epistle to Count Albert It is not inough if in other things he confesse Christ and his Ghospell For who denieth Christ in one article or word denieth him who is denied in all because there is but one Christ Lutherās the same in all his words And vpon the 17. cap. of Deuteronomy Faith suffereth nothing and the word tolerateth nothing but the word must be perfectly pure and the doctrine alwayes sound throughout And vpon the 17. cap. of S. Matthew Fayth must be round that is belieuing all articles though small ones For who belieueth not one article rightly belieueth nothing righly as Iames sayth VVho offendeth in one is guilty of all and so who in one article doubteth or belieueth not at least obstinatly dissolueth the roundnes of the graine and so can do no good And vpon the 5. cap. to the Galathians In diuinity a small errour ouerthroweth all the doctrine Doctrine is like to a Mathematicall point it cannot be deuided that is it cannot suffer either addition or detraction And when Zuinglius and his followers desired of the Lutherans to be esteemed as their brethren Melancthon as Hospinian reporteth in his Sacramentarian history fol. 81. roughly sayd vnto them VVe meruaile with what conscience they can account vs for brethren whome they iudge to erre in doctrine And againe fol. 82. Luther grauely spake vnto them saying he greatly merueiled how they could hold him for a brother if they thought his doctrine to be vntrue And the same Melancthon togeather with Brentius writeth thus to the Lantgraue Perhaps Christians who are entangled in some errour which they do not obstinatly defend may be tolerated as brethren but they which not only bring false doctrine into the Church but also maintaine it are not to be acknowledged for brethren And againe Melancthon in his examen of those who are to take orders tom 3. There are in that company of the Church many who are not Saints but yet agreeing in doctrine The Deuines of Wittemberg in their refutation of the orthodoxall consent pag. 73 Like as he who keepeth the whole law and offendeth in one as Iames the Apostle witnesseth is guilty of all so who belieueth not one word of Christ albeit he seeme to beliue the other articles of the Creed yet belieueth nothing and is to be damned as incredulous For euery heretike did not impugne euery article of fayth but commonly each of them of purpose impugned some one or other whome neuertheles the Church iustly condemned as heretikes if they pertinaciously stood in their errours Schusselburg also in his 3. tom of the Catalogue of Heretiks pag. 85. Christian fayth is one copulatiue and who denieth one article of fayth calleth in doubt the whole body of the heauenly doctrine Which he repeateth againe in the next pag. And tome 8. pag. 361 The Lutherans do fly him who depraueth the doctrine of truth in any article whatsoeuer And in his 2. booke of Caluinisticall diuinity article 1 VVe are certaine by the testimony of Gods word that an errour in one false doctrine obstinatly defended maketh an heretike For S. Chrysostome vpon the epistle to the Galathians sayd most truly that he corrupteth the whole doctrine who ouerthroweth it in the least article And Ambrose wrote rightly to the Virgin Demetrias That he is out of the number of the faythfull and hath no part in the inheritance of Saints who disagreeth in any thing from the Catholike truth Sacramētaries Thus the Lutherans Peter Martyr in his epistle to the straungers in England tom 2. loc col 136 VVe answere all the words of God as farre forth as they proceeded from him are of equall waight and authority and therefore none may receiue this and reiect that as false Iames sayth boldly who sinneth in one becommeth guilty of all That if it haue place in keeping of the commandements is also true in points of fayth Sadeel in his index of Turriās Repetitions pag. 806 I sayd that it was no true Church which teacheth doctrine repugnant to the
followers not knowing the Pope did honour his Kingdome belieuing all things thereof to be good and iust and of God The Magdeburgians in their 12. Century col 1637. speake thus of him He worshipped the God of Maâ—zim they meane the masse till the last moment of his life And in the next columne He was a most eager defender of the seat of Antichrist Melancthon in his booke of the Church and vpon the 14. cap. to the Romanes He yelded to many errours as to the Abuses of the Masse to the Popes power to vowes to the worship of Saints Danaeus in his controuersies pag. 313. sayth He approued the Popery M. Iewell in his defence of the Apology 21. art diuis 8. pag. 450 Bernard was a monck and liuing in a tyme of such corruption and being caryed with the tempest and violence of the same must c. Bale in his 2. century of writers pag. 177 He increased the authority of the bishop of Rome as much as he could D. Feild vpon the 14. of S. Matthew Bernard was deceiued with the errour of Peters superiority And D. Whitaker in his answere to the 7. reason of Father Campian Bernard whome alone your church in many yeares hath brought forth a holy man And in his 4. controuersy quest 2. c. 17. he affirmeth that he endeauoureth to confirme the Popes superiority Seing therefore by the confession of Protestants he was both an earnest Papist vnto his dying day for all his life tyme he honoured masse beleiued the Popes superiority in which two points Protestants say the essence and soule of a Papist doth consist and briefly belieued all things belonging to the Pope to come from God and also was a very holy man in his life tyme and now a blessed Saint in heauen they must needs confesse that euen the most vehemeÌ„t Papist may be of the church because neither true sanctity nor saluatioÌ„ can be found out of the church Whereunto the Protestants in the late Conference at Ratisbon Sess 13. say If they were truly saints then their errour was not of that kind which ouerturneth the foundation For it implieth contradiction that one should be a true Saint and yet foster errour which ouerturneth the ground of saluation In like sort they graunt diuers others to be true saints and yet withall Papists but for breuities sake I will content my selfe with this example of S. Bernard But I will not omit to say that they confesse our Christian forefathers before Luthers tyme to haue byn Papists from the top to the toe from the first to the last as shall be shewed in the 2. booke cap. 3. and notwithstanding dare not say that they be damned yea confesse them to be saued Luther in his booke of priuate masse enquireth what is to be thought of our auncestors who haue founded innumerable Masses and answereth I cannot tell certainly But vpon the 41. cap. of Genesis he sayth Doubtlesse many haue byn saued vnder Popery And vpon the 5. of S. Matthew Our Popish forefathers saued Neither do we condemne the Christians who liued vnder the Pope Brentius in the preface of his Recognition VVe doubt not but that many haue obtayned true saluation in Popery Osiander in his Manual englished VVe do not condemne our godly ancestors who liued in tyme of Popery Zuinglius in his actes of disputation fol. 638 It is impious to pronounce our ancestors to be damned D. Morton in his Apology part 1. l. 1. c. 90 Be this impiety far from vs to adiudge our ancestours to damnation And D. White in his defence pag. 356 I neuer denyed the church of Rome to be the visible church of God wherein our ancestors possessed the true faith and were saued But how could our Popish ancestors be not damned how could they be saued vnles they were in the true church out of which euen Protestants themselues confesse that there is no saluation That they confesse true mission and Pastors in Popery but only damnation 4. Fourthly I prooue that Protestants cannot deny Papists to be of the true Church because they oftentymes both by word and deed acknowledge the vocation and Mission of Popish Pastors to be lawfull and sufficient to make a true Pastour of the Church Luther vpon the 5. cap. of S. Matthew VVe confesse that amongst Papists are pulpits Baptisme Sacraments and all other things belonging to Apostolicall vocation and function And in his booke or priuate masse There remaineth in Popery Vocation Ordination Ministery of the word and keyes to bind and loose Againe Christ hath conserued his Ministery vnder Popery And as is before cited There is all Christian good in Popery the keyes the charge of preaching c. Iohn Regius in considerat Censurae pag. 93 Although it be true that the Popish ministery was depraued with sundry traditions and deuises of men yet had it those things which were necessary to saluation Bucer in Rom. 8. pag. 427. telling vs by what authority and right he preached Protestantisme sayth I had by lawfull meanes already attayned the charge to preach Christ and to teach those things which he commanded Iunius lib. singulari de eccles cap. 17 God calleth the church wherein Popery raigneth by his spirit by his word by the publike instrument of that holy marriage by the ministery by sacred affaires actions On Gods part these things are apparantly in that church Plessy lib. de Eccles cap. 11. p. 361. The vocation of our men is the same that they the Papists boast of Pag. 362 Our aduersaries and our first ministers had the same Ecclesiasticall calling Boysseul in confutat Spondaei pag. 486 It is no reproach for our Pastors to haue issued out of yours or as you say to haue had their vocation from yours Moulins lib. 1. de vocat cap. 5. pag. 20. endeauouring to vphold the calling of their first Reformers sayth They haue that calling which is ordinary in the church of Rome Pa. 21 They had their calling of the Pope cap. 9. pag. 36 They haue the same ordinary calling which our aduersaries haue And lib. 2. tract 1. cap. 1. pag. 172 The calling they had in the church of Rome sufficed to bind them to preach And pag. 173 Their commission was no other then the ordinary charge Serauia in defen Grad minist cap. 2. pag. 31. VVe ought not to thinke that in the church of Rome ecclesiasticall ministery is decayed And pag. 33 I like not their frowardnes who acknowledge no ministery in the church of Rome but deeme all that is there diuelish Ibid Beza doth exagitate Popish orders ouer much wherein I feare least he preiudice a good cause D. Whitaker contr 4. quest 5. cap. 3. pag. 682 The Papists haue some sort of ministery and some preaching of the word which doubtles auaileth many to saluation And other where as is before cited Among the Papists there are the keyes the office of preaching c. M. Bell in his first booke of the Popes funerall cap.
5. affirmeth that he had reiected only the accidents of his Popish orders but retayned the substance still M. Mason in his 5. booke of the ordination of ministers cap. 12. sayth that Popish ordination consistes of two parts to wit of power to offer sacrifice of power to administer the word and Sacraments and albeit he reiecteth the former yet the later he approues as that wherein true ministery consisteth Sadeel respon ad artic abiurat 61. And Vorstius in Anti-bellarmin pag. 177. teach the same and so must all others do who hold the mission of Luther and their first ministers to haue byn ordinary and receiued from the Papists which opinion most Protestants do now follow retracting vpon better aduise their former assertion confessing that the mission of their new Reformers was not in substance extraordinary And their deeds and actions do no lesse declare their approbation and esteeme of the mission and Pastorall charge which is in the church of Rome For as Turrian reporteth lib. 2. de Eccles cap. 3. and Luther intimateth tom 2. epist ad Bohemos when the Catholike Bishops giue orders the Hussites of Bohemia steale in priuily among the rest The Lutherans also made sute to the estats of the Empire that their ministers might receiue orders from the bishops of Misnia and Numburg And in artic 10. Smalcald they professe thus If the bishops of the church of Rome would truly execute their office and looke carefully to the church and word of God it might be permitted them to giue orders vnto vs and our preachers You may adde hereunto that neither Luther nor any Reformer else euer sought other ordination then what they had receiued of Papists and that in the beginning of Queene Elizabeths raigne the supposed Prelates earnestly be sought a Catholike Bishop to consecrate them And euen to this day if any renegate Priest ioyne himselfe to the Protestants they order him not anew but deeme him fit for their ministeriall function by vertue of the orders he receiued of Papists Now if Papists haue true Mission true pastorall charge and true Pastors True mission and Pastors inseparable froÌ„ the Church surely they haue also the true church it being impossible that the church should be seuered froÌ„ the true Pastours or that the keyes of heauen which are in the true Pastours hands should be out of the church or that the power to remit sinnes the prerogatiue of true Pastours shold be where the church is not Nay the Protestants themselues confesse as much Luther tom 4. in cap. 4. Oseae fol. 295 True it is that the Ministery is only in the Church Melancthon tom 1. Lutheri disput de Eccles Polit. fol. 483 The ordination of Ministers is one of the peculiar giftes of the Church Caluin lib. de neces reform Eccles pag. 57 This one reason is as good as thousands that who so hath shewed himselfe an enemy to true doctrine hath lost all authority in the Church D. Whitaker ad demonstrat 18. Sanderi Out of the Church there is no other seate but the seat of errour of pestilence and euerlasting destruction The same teacheth Sadeel ad Sophism Turrian loc 10. D. Feild in his 1. booke of the church cap. 14. and others 5. Fiftly it is euident by the doctrine of the Sacramentaries who hold that the children of Papists are in the couenant of God and estate of saluation through the fayth of their parents Papistâ— children saued by the fayth of their parents and may therefore be baptised much more then must they teach that the parents themselues are for their owne fayth in the couenant of God and estate of saluation which could not be were they not in the Church The antecedent is manifest by the saying of many Protestants For thus writeth Luther lib. de capt Babylon tom 2. fol. 77 Here I say that which all say that infants are holpen by the fayth of them which offer them Caluin in his Catechâ—sme cap. de lege God extendeth his bounty so farre vnto the faythfull that for their sake he is good to their children not only blessing their affaires in this world but also sanctifying their soules that they may be accounted of his flock Contr. Seruetum pag. 601 VVe think that there will be no vse of Baptisme vntill this promise I will be thy God and of thy seed be apprehended by fayth but euery one apprehendeth it not only to himselfe but also to his issue Beza part 2. Respon ad acta Montisbel pag. 118 Parents through Gods grace do apâ—rehend grace by true fayth according to the forme of the Couenant as well to their posterity as to themselues Which he oftentymes repeateth And likewise in Confes cap. 4. sect 48. and cap. 5. sect 9. and pag. 126 M. Perkins de Sacramento Baptismi tom 1. col 846 Others say that the fayth of the Parents is also the fayth of their children all the tyme of their infancy or childhood and that because parents do by their fayth apprehend the promise both for themselues and for their children VVhich opinion seemeeh to me the fittest of all The like he sayth in cap. 3. Galat. The sequele likewise is vndoubted For if the fayth of Popish parents be of force to establish their very children in the Couenant of God and estate of saluation though it reside not in them nor be their act much more doth it establish the parents themselues who haue that fayth in them and whose act it is Nor do the instances D. Morton brings against it in his answere to the Protestants Apology lib. 4. cap. 6. make any thing to the purpose as that in case of necessity an hereticall Priest or Schismatike may absolue from sinnes and an Infidell administer Baptisme Againe That if such as were free of a citty and are araigned of treason should haue issue after their condemnation their children neuertheles shall enioy the title and right of cittizens whereof their parents were destitute These examples I say are not to the purpose because he who is eyther baptized by an Infidell or absolued by an hereticall Priest enters not into the couenant of God and estate of saluation for ought that is in the person which baptizeth or absolueth him but for the Sacrament of Baptisme or Pennance which he receiueth indeed by the others administration but hath it in himselfe And the sonne of a traytor is not made a Cittizen in regard of any thing that is in the father alone but for his owne birth which appertaines to himselfe though his Father be author thereof But the Sacramentaries teach that the child of a Papist is in the couenant of God and estate of saluation not for his owne fayth for they say he hath none but for the beliefe of his father which is no way possible if the same fayth be not of force to worke the like effect in the father himselfe seeing it belongs farre more to him then to his child and therefore must
man Sonis Respons ad Spondeum c. 10. pag. 365. Heretiks are within the Church Lubbert lib. 2. de Eccles cap. 3 It is manifest that heretikes are some as yet in the visible Church some also in the church of the elect Iunius lib. 3. de Eccles cap. 4 Heretiks absolutely are of the Church vnlesse they be such as ouerthrow fundamentall articles of religion Cap. 3 n. â—â— Bullinger teacheth the same Decad. 2. serm 8. and it is the common doctrine of the Protestants who as is before proued exclude none from being members of their Church that deny only such articles as are not fundameÌ„tall Howbeit some of them vpon hereticall priuiledge as Tertullian speaketh will not haue such called heretiks Lib. de carne Coâ—isti cap. â—5 being indeed more ashamed of the name then of the thing it selfe Zanchius likewise lib. 1. epist ad Dudit pag. 150. sayth that hereticall and Schismaticall sects are within the Church Tilenus in Syntag. disput 14 Heretiks euen those that subuert the foundation and Schismatiks in regard of outward Communion are in the Church till either of themselues they go to the enemies side or are cast out by the lawfull iudgement of the Church And D. Feild in his first booke of the Church cap 14 Seing God gaue the power of the keyes and the dispensation of his word and Sacraments only to his Church if Heretiks be not of the Church they do not then baptize And cap. 7 They that are partakers of the heauenly calling and sanctified by the profession of diuine truth and the vse of the meanes of saluation are of very diuers sortes as heretikes Schismatiks hypocrites and those that professe the whole sauing truth in vnity and sincerity of a good and sanctified heart All these are partakers of the heauenly calling and sanctified by the profession of truth and consequently are all in some degree and sort of that society of men whome God calleth out vnto himselfe separateth from Infidels which is rightly named the Church D. Whitaker contr 4. quest 5. c. 3. pag 679 All heretiks are within the Church Hooker in his 3. booke of Ecclesiasticall policy pag. 128 VVe must acknowledge euen heretikes themselues to be though a maymed part yet a part of a visible Church Againe If an Infidell should pursue to death an heretike professing Christianity only for Christian Prosession sake could we deny vnto him the honour of Martyrdome By which words it is plaine that they admit heretiks not only into the visible Church but into the inuisible also or company of the elect and predestinate to saluation And D. Andrews in his answere to Bellarmines Apology cap. 5. pag. 121. denyeth that the words Catholik and Heretike are opposite wherefore vnlesse he will debarre and shut out some Catholiks from the Church he must needs giue admittance to heretiks seing by his owne verdict they may be Catholiks D. White in defence of his way cap. 38. pag. 367 The second sort of the militant Church are hypocrites and vnsound members that are not called effectually but disobey the truth whereof they make profession such are heretiks schismatiks c. Touching their acceptations of Schismatiks besides what hath byn already alleaged D. Feild in his first booke of the Church cap. 13. Writeth thus They challenge Schismatiks The departure of Schismatiks is not such but that notwithstanding their schisme they are and remaine parts of the Church of God Iunius in the place before quoted layeth clayme to those Schismatikes VVho sayth he seuer not themselues from the whole Church but only from a part thereof But D. Mortoâ— in the 1. part of his Apology lib. 1. cap. 2. sayth absolutely without any acception or restraint at all Schismatiks are of the Church And lib. 2. cap. 10. pag. 288 Variances sayth he and schismes do not betoken the false Church And D. Willet in his Synopsis cont 2. quest 3. pag. 104 VVe say that Schismatiks though they hold some false points of doctrine yet if their errours be not fundamentall and if they retaine the purity of doctrine in all points necessary to saluation and the administration of the Sacraments may make a particular Church by themselues These are their acknowledgements touching Heretikes and Schismatikes in generall They acknowledge the Grecians Let vs now descend to particularities and see the courteous admission they giue to some of them by name 8. The Grecians and other Easterne Schismatiks yea heretiks to for the most part find that fauour at their hands as they vouchsafe to account them members of their Church His Maiesty epist ad Card. Peron pa. 13 hath thus The Churches of Rome Greece Antioch Aegipt Aethiopia Muscouy and others more are members of the Catholike church D. Whiâ—e in defence of his way c. 37. pag. 355 The visible churches of Greece Aethiope Armenia and Rome with the nations contayned therin haue in them the true church of God wherin men may be saued D. Morton in his answere to the Protestants Apology lib. 4. cap. 2. sect 7. sayth that the Assyrian Churches keep the true foundation of Christian fayth The same especially of the Grecians teacheth Luther tom 2. lib. de captiu Babylon fol. 65. in Assert art 37. fol. 114. Innius cont 4 lib. 4. cap. 6. Sedeel Respons ad Thes Posnan cap. 12. D. Whitaker lâ—b 7. cont Duraeum sect 3. Bucanus loco 41. quest 5 D. Feild lib. 3. de Eccles cap. 5. 28. D. Fulke de Success pag. 120. Burhill pro Tortura Torti c. 15. and others 9. And sometymes they are not lesse free-harted towards westerne heretike Melancthon in locis à Maulio editiâ—tit de Eccles pag. 491. writeth that two girles who were burnt as he sayth for Anabaptisme They challenge the Anabaptists held the foundation of sayth and died in a good Confâ—ssion And Zuinglius tom 2. lib. de Author sedit fol. 134. seq exhorting his fellowers not to reuolt from his doctrine for the debates and quarels between the Protestants and the Anabaptists calleth both parts most learned and sonnes of the same Father Neither must thou sayth he giue any man way to shake and weakeâ— thy sayth although thou see that men of the greatest learning moue disputes and fall by the cares with much â—agernesse of contention touching externall matters he meanes baptisme but let this be rather thy stedfast persuasion that by the Sonne of God we are all made sonnes of the same Father Againe Neither am I wont to speake these things for that I am so greatly moued with the baptisme of children And ibidem lib. de Baptismo fol. 96. he sayth that baptisme is a matter of ceremony which the church may omit or take quite away Oecolampadius in his 2. booke of epistles p. 363. sayth baptisme is an externall thing which by the law of charity may be dispensed withall And Musculus in locis tit de haeresi pag. 605. reckons the Anabaptists amongst those who
church we define to be a congregation of men amongst whome the word is truly preached and the Sacraments administred Such a church hath not alwayes byn neither can we be assured that it shall alwayes be sound vpon the earth There was a tyme when as the visible church failed vpon earth The visible church failed This inuisibility of the Protestant Church which I haue hitherto proued by their manifold Confessions I will also proue by sequels out of other their sayings First therefore D. Morton in his Apology part 1. book 1. cap. 31. disliketh not these words of Bellarmine Protestants when they say the church cannot faile or perish meane the inuisibible church And many of them in expresse words deny that the Promises of perpetuity Protestāts say the promises belong not to the visible Church which in the scripture are made vnto the church Math. 16. and other where be made to the visible church D. Whitaker Cont. 2. quest 3. cap. 3. pag. 468 It is most false that it is the visible church against which the gates of hell shall not preuaile And Daneus Cont. 4. lib. 3. cap. 13. pag. 717 There Math. 16. is not meant the visible church To whome assenteth D. Willet in his Synopsis cont 2. quest 2. M. Powell of Antichrist lib. 1. cap. 10. Beurlin in his Refutation of Sotus cap. 53. Moulins of the vocation of Ministers lib. 1. c. 4. in his Bucklet part 1. pag. 49. And D. Morton lib. cit cap. 13. addeth that those three places Math. 16. vlt. and psal 47. which promise the perpetuity of the Church Protestāts belieue not the visible church Are euery one of them vnderstood almost by euery Father of the only company of the elect which the Protestants call the inuisible Church Besides they all generally teach that by the Catholike Church which they professe to belieue in the Creed they meane not the visible Church but only the inuisible Luther in his booke of abrogating Masse tom 2. fol. 247 VVho shall shew vs the holy church seeing it is hidden in spirit and is only belieued according as I belieue the holy church Zuinglius in his explication of the 31. article The church which consisteth of those which are knowne to God alone in that which we professe in the articles of our creed Danaeus lib. cit pag. 713 The question is of the true church of God whereof it is sayd in the creed I belieue the holy church Bellarmine vvill haue it to be the visible vve deny it The like he sayth pag. 789. 717. 718. and 725. Vorstius in his Antibellarm pag. 144 VVe professe not in the creed to belieue the visible church but the inuisible D. Whitaker lib. 3. against Duraeus sect vlt You see vvhat Catholike church vve belieue not the visible multitude of Christians but the holy company of the elect The same he sayth Cont. 2. quest 2. cap. 2. Brentius in Prolegominis pag. 2. and others commonly Furthermore they say that the visible Church is not the true Church in the sight of God For Caluin in his 4. book of Institutions cap. 1. § 7. They say the visible Church is not the true Church before God and the rest graunt that both wicked and reprobate Christians may be of the visible Church but deny that they can be of the true Church in the sight of God Now surely if the visible Church be neither the true Church in the sight of God nor she to whome he hath promised perpetuity nor she which Protestants do belieue what reason can they haue to belieue that the visible Church shall alwayes remayne or which is all one that the Church shall be alwayes visible Againe their common doctrine is that preaching of true doctrine is the note of the visible Church for so teacheth the Confession of Auspurg cap. 7. the English Confession artic 19. and all the rest To which his Maiesty in his epist to Cardinall Peron D. Whitaker Contr. 2. q 5. c. 17. D. Morton part 1. Apol. l. 1. c. 6. M. Willet in his Synopsis Cont. 2. quest 3. pag. 102. Sadeel to Turtians Sophismes loc 5. Vorstius in Antibellarm pag. 145. and others do adde that it is an essentiall note of the visible Church And it is manifest that they must say so because they vse to define the visible Church to be a company vvherein the pure vvord of God is preached the Sacraments rightly administred For so it is defined of the English Confession and of Sadeel lib. cit of Whitaker quest 5. cit cap. 20. of Melācthon tom 1. in cap. 15. Matth. and of others generally But before Luther there was no preaching of Protestantisme as we shall heare them confesse cap. 7. therefore there was then no visible Protestant Church Finally sometymes they say that not only preaching of the word but that also a lawfull ministery or that not only what true preaching soeuer but also such as is made by a lawfull Minister of the word is of the essence and substance of the visible Church For thus writeth D. Whitaker Cont. 2. q. 5. cap. 19. pag. 550 Stapleton sayth that the preaching of the Ghospell by lavvfull Ministers is the proper note of the church and vve say no othervvise And pag. 551. That he confesseth true preaching by a lavvfull Ministery to be a note of the church is no other thing then that vve say and defend The like hath Sadeel in the place now cited and the Switzers Confession cap. 17. putteth lawfull preaching for the chiefest note of the church Caluin 4. Institut cap. 2. § 1. for a perpetuall note the conclusions defended at Geneua pag. 845. for an essentiall note thereof But before Luther there were no Protestant Ministers at all as we shall hereafter heare the Protestants confesse Therefore no visible Protestant Church 8. By that which hath byn rehearsed it is manifest Summe of the foresayd confessions that very many and very famous Protestants haue often and plainly confessed that when Luther came first as they speake to the Ghospell the Protestant Church and religion was not visible say hid lurked lay in the wildernes in lurking holes indarknesse in Trophonius his denne was buryed was vnknowne vnheard of appeared to none cold not be discerned Her image could not be seene no shew of besides a huge spoile did appeare no face no fashion no trace of her was extant and she was so hid that he who would iudge according to the outward shew would think her to be no where And that this is so manifest as that the experience of many ages beareth witnes thereof With what words I pray you could they say that their Church was altogeather inuisible if they haue not sayd it in these 9. Moreouer it is manifest that for to maintaine their inuisible Church they do teach that the Church may be vnknowne to the godly to those who are of it that it may be not visible not appeare not
be seene by corporall eyes that the externall knowledge therof may be taken from men that it may consist of no apparent forme be without any visible condition without visible succession and destitute of outward forme That the visible face thereof may be taken from vs that it may seeme to haue vtterly perished that the visible Church may perish the outward Church perish that it may wholy leaue to be visible and the whole visible Church perish and finally that there be no true visible Church in the world 10. Besides it is cleare that they teach that not only some part of the visible Church but also as they speake the whole and all the visible Church may perish and that it may fall out that there be none De grat lib. arb c. 8. none at all no visible Church in the world Certainly as S. Austin speaketh these words need no witty interpreter but only an attent hearer 11. Whereby also it is euident Protestāts vntrue shifts refuted that D. White in the defence of his way cap. 38. and 40. sayd vntruly that Protestants imagine not the Church to haue byn at any tyme simply inuisible For as we haue heard they oftentymes professe openly the contrary Vntruly also D. Whitaker auoucheth Cont. 2. quest 3. cap. 2. pag. 472. that we slaunder them when we say they make such a Church as sometymes can be seene of none For as hath byn seene many Num. 5.6 and he amongst the rest haue taught so But D. Whitaker by the name of a visible Church vnderstandeth not a company visibly professing their fayth but one or two or some few visible men who keep their fayth secretly in their harts But this is not the church to haue byn visible but the men to haue byn visible Besides that it is inough for vs that the Protestant Religion and manner of worshipping God was before Luthers tyme altogeather inuisible and only secret in the hearts of some few For thence it will follow as shall appeare hereafter that it is not the religion of God which can neuer be kept so secret and inuisible Vntruly also sayth Iunius Cont. 4. lib. 3. cap. 16. when he writeth This only we say the visible manner of the Church may ly hid or faile to the vngratefull world not that it can become inuisible in it selfe For that which is so inuisible as the Protestants haue sayd the Church may be is in it selfe inuisible Lastly some do vntruly expound the foresayd words of Protestants as if they had only sayd that their Church had byn inuisible in some sort not simply and absolutely because their words were most absolute and it is sophisticall to expound so many absolute speeches only in some sort Besides hereafter we shall see that sometymes they confesse that their church was so inuisible as it implyed contradiction to haue it seene and those who limitate the former speaches agree not togeather in their expositions For D. Whitaker loc cit sayth they only meane that the Church is not alwayes to be seene glorious and of euery one D. White lib. cit cap. 37. that they meane that the Church is not alwayes to be seene a part and free from all errour D. Morton Apol. part 1. lib. 1. cap. 13. that they only meant that the church is not alwayes to be seene publikely of all men by her visible rites and visible succession which shift he calleth the Bulwarck of Protestants But this Bulwarck is built of him without all foundation and is manifestly ouerthrowne by the former Confessions D. Feild sayth they meane not that the Church is wholy inuisible at any tyme but that it is not alwayes to be esteemed by outward appearance But what more manifest then that they teach that the Church may be wholy inuisible as appeareth by their words already rehearsed The Protestāt Church impossible to haue byn seene and shall yet more appeare by and by 12. For they not only confesse that their Church was altogeather inuisible before Luther arose but also they affirme that it is a most vniust and impudent demaund to request them to shew it before that tyme. Hutter in his Analysis of the Confession of Auspurg pag. 448 Impudent demaund It is an impudent demaund of the Romanists to request to haue shewed vnto them such a church in former ages which touching the publike ministery and visible forme agreed in all things with Luther For we haue demonstrated that the true Church then lay hid D. Fulke in his booke of Succession pag. 19 But you bid me bring forth those elect Protestants which lay hid through all the world Good God how vniust a thing do you demaund Vniust that I should bring forth them whome I say lay hid And Sadeel to the Repetition of Turrians Sophismes pag. 766 But I promised not as you say that I would answeare to this your question where those inuisible remnants lay hid as if I had not sufficiētly answeared when I sayd that they lay hid by the vnsearcheable counsaile of God And in his answere to Theses Posnan cap. 8. He will haue them to haue layne so closely that it cannot be knowne what they did And in his booke of Vocation of Ministers pag. 551 At last came that generall Apostasy which the Apostle foretold For then the outward light of the Church being quite extinct Only shadow and name of visible Church there remayned the only shadow and name of the visible Church The same also intimateth Plessy Mornay in the Preface of his Mystery of iniquity when he sayth VVe are not bound to shew the Church it sufficeth that God knew his owne And Iohn Regius in his Apology pag 176 You deny that Luther sound a company of his sect I say there was an ecclesiasticall company of true religion and which agreed with Luther in all points But when the Iesuits vrge to shew a follower of religion they would that Luther shew that which implieth Implied to be visible and proue the inuisible to be visible Napper vpon 12. cap. Apocal pag. 294 From the yeare 316. God with drew his visible Church from the open assemblies of men to the hearts of particuler men and from that tyme the Church lay hid and was inuisible The same he sayth pag. 188 But if so it be an impudent and vniust demaund to haue their Church shewed before Luther if it were withdrawne from open assemblies to the hearts of some if her outward light were quite extinct and the only shadow and name of the visible Church remayned and lastly if it implyed contradiction that she should be shewed it is most euident that she was altogeather inuisible The same also they intimate when they say that the Church either hath byn at any tyme or may be thus inuisible Luther vpon the 90. psalme tom 3. fol. 495 Church no where but in the sight of God The Church was then in Elias tyme but so hidden as it was
Chapter of Isaias tom 4. fol. 220. thus writeth There is no religion in the world which receiueth this opinion of iustification by only fayth and we our selues in priuate do scant belieue it though we publikely defend it By which words he sheweth that neither Hussytes nor Waldenses nor any Christians besides Protestants and scarce they also do belieue the principall and most fundamentall article of Protestancy howsoeuer openly they professe it That the Church cannot be so inuisible as Protestant confesse theirs to haue byn before Luthers tyme. CHAP. VI. 1. BY the name of the Church we vnderstand not as I sayd before only the men but men sociated or the society of men in the fayth worship of God Wherfore that a church be sayd visible not only the men but their worship of God must be visible Neither by this word visible do I vnderstand here that only which can be seene but whatsoeuer is sensible according both to the vulgar phrase of speach wherewith we say See how it soundeth as S. Augustine noteth and also after the phrase of scripture Lib. 10. Confess c. 35. wherein as the same holy Doctour obserueth All sensible things are called visible And Protestants as is before shewed do confesse that before Luthers rising their Church was simply inuisible Lib. 1. de mor. Manich c. 20. and vnseene of any either of those within or without her And necessarily they must say so because they can name none at all who before Luther arose did see a company of men who professed to belieue iustification by only fayth and the rest of the fundamentall principles of Protestancy yea they affirmed that it was so inuisible Ca. 4. n. 11. as it implyed contradiction to haue byn seene of any That the Church cannot be inuisible 2. Now that the Church Militant or liuing on earth cannot be so inuisible I proue first because it is against an article of fayth of diuers Protestants And if perhaps any hereupon imagine that either Protestants neuer graunted the contrary or that if they did graunt it their testimonies against themselues are not to be accepted let him read what hereafter I write touching that matter in the last chapter of this booke Wherefore in the Confession of Saxony cap. 15. they professe in this sort God will haue the Ministery of the ghospell to be publike he will not haue the voice of the ghospell to be shut vp only in corners but will haue it beard of all mankind Therefore he will haue publike and seemely meetings and in them he will haue the voice of the ghospell to sound He will also haue these same meetings to be witnesses of the Confession and separation of the Church from the sects and opinions of other Nations God will haue his Church to be seene and heard in the world and will haue her deuided by many publik marks from other people And the same they repeat in the Consent of Polony cap. de Coena And the same Confession of Saxony cap. of the Church VVe speake not of the Church as of a Platonicall idaea but we shew a Church which may be seene and heard The eternall Father will haue his Sonne to be heard in all mankind VVherefore we say that the Church is in this life a visible company c. SecoÌ„dly it is against their owne definitions of a militant Church ProtestaÌ„ts definitioÌ„s of the Church For the foresayd Confession of Saxony defineth the Church in this life to be a visible company The Magdeburgians in their 1. Century lib. 1. c. 4. col 170. do thus write The Church may be thus defined The Church in this life is a company of those The câ—urch in this life who imbrace the sincere doctrine of the Ghospell and rightly vse the Sacraments And the very same definition giueth Melancthon tom 4. in cap. 3.1 ad Tim. pag. 398. Hutterus in his Analysis of the confession of Auspurg pag. 444. saith This Church which is sayd to be and to be belieued The Church which we belieue is not a Platonicall idea but the visible company of those that are called Zanchius also in his treatise of the Church cap. 2 The militant Church is the company of the elect and truly saythfull Church militant professing the same sayth partaking the same Sacraments c. Hereof properly speake the scriptures when they call the Church the spouse of Christ the body of Christ redeemed with the bloud of Christ sounded vpon a rock Gerlachius tom 2. Disput 22 Defining the Church as it is on earth we say that it is a congregation of men Church on earth who called by the voice of the Ghospell heare the word of God and vse the Sacraments instituted of Christ. 3. Thirdly it is against the properties and markes of the true Church assigned by the Protestants themselues to be altogeather inuisible For thus their Confession of Auspurg cap. 7 The Church of Christ properly so called The proper Church hath her marks to wit pure doctrine c. The Confession of Saxony cap. 12 The true church is discerned from other nations by the voice of true doctrine and lawfull vse of Sacraments The true Church The French Confession art 27 VVe belieue that the true church ought to be discerned with great care VVherefore we affirme out of the word of God that the Church is the company of the faythfull who agree in following the word of God and imbracing true religion wherein also they daily profit growing and confirming themselues mutually in the feare of God The Confession of the Low Countries art 29 By these markes the true Church shall be discerned from the false if in her the pure preaching of the Ghospell be of force by these markes it is certaine that the true Church may be distinguished The Confession of Scotland art 18 It is necessary that the true Church be discerned from the false by euident marckes least being deceiued we imbrace the false for the true to our eternall damnation Againe VVe belieue the markes of the true Church to be true preaching of the word c. Melancthon in his answere to the Bauarian articles tom 3. fol. 362 It is euident that the true Church is a visible company And vpon the 16. to the Romans tom 1. pag. 486 She is the true Church who teacheth the Ghospell aright and rightly administreth the Sacraments Danaeus in his booke of Antichrist cap. 17 The proper definition of the Church This is the proper definition of the Church that the true Church is the company of the faythfull who serue God purely and keep the notes of adoption instituted by him such as are the heauenly word the Sacraments and discipline By these 3. marks the false Church is distinguished from the true Lubbert in his 4. booke of the Church cap. 2 VVe say that the Church doth shew her selfe to be the true Church by the sincere preaching of the word of
God And Beza wrote a booke of this title Of the true and visible marks of the Catholike Church D. Whitaker in answere of the 3. reason of F. Campian That we iudge to be proper to the true Church that it increase and conserue Christs word that it vse the Sacraments entiâ—rly and purely These we defend to be the most true and essentiall properties of the Church Take these away and you will leaue nothing but the carcasse of the church Againe They containe the true nature of the church which if they be present they make the church and take it away if they be taken away And D. Feild in his 1. book of the church cap. 11 VVe say that that society wherein that outward profession of the truth of God is preserued is that true church of God c. Finally to omit the words of others the same teach Wigand in his method of doctrine cap. 19. Gesner in his 24. place of the Church The Magdeburgians in the Preface of their 6. CeÌ„tury Heshusius in cap. 1.1 ad Cor. Soterius in his method title of the church Pelargus in his Compend of diuinity loc 7. Sohnius in his Thesis of the Church Bullinger in his Catechisme fol. 44. Aretius in his places part 3. fol. 50. Theses of Geneua disput 74. SummeoiÌ„ Protest former CoÌ„sessioÌ„s Thus thou seest good reader that according to the manifold iudgement of Protestants a part of the definition of the essence the marke of the Church in this life of the Church militant of the Church which is belieued of the proper Church of the Church whereof the Scripture properly speaketh when it calleth her the spouse of Christ the body of Christ of the true Church of the Church properly so termed and finally of the Catholike Church that I say it is of the definition and essence a marke of this church to be a visible company professing the faith partaking the Sacraments mutually confirming themselues and that otherwise it is as they say but a carcasse of the Church Wherefore it implieth manifest contradiction that there should at any tyme haue byn a true Church and not a visible company because nothing can be without all its essentiall parts The Protestant Church therefore which as we head was before Luthers tyme altogeather inuisible was no true and proper Church but to vse their termes a Platonicall idaea or a carkasse of a Church If any reply that when Protestants affirme the foresayd definitions properties and marks of the true Church they meane not by the name of the true Church that which is simply and absolutely the true Church but that which is the true visible Church I aske why then do they simply call it the true Church if they do not so meane why are not their words conformable to their meaning Besides the Church wherof they giue the foresayd definitioÌ„s and marks they call not only the true Church but also the Church properly so termed the spouse and body of Christ the Catholike church and such like which cannot agree to any which is but a Church in appearance only and in the sight of men but only to that which is the Church in very deed and in the sight of God Further more according to the opinion of Protestants these two termes True and Visible in the nature of the Church do one destroy the other as these two True and Painted exclude each other in the nature of a man For they imagine that the true Church is a society in something that is inuisible to wit in iustification and predestination Wherupon they deny any ill or reprobate Christians to be of the true Church Wherefore as he should speake fondly who should say A true painted man so according to their owne opinion they speake as fondly when they say The true visible Church But as we can only say the true picture of a man attributing the word True to the picture not to the man so they should only The true appearance or shew of the Church gâ—uing the word True to the shew not to the Church it selfe But they are ashamed to speak so least when they inquire the marks of the true visible Church Why ProtestaÌ„ts somtyme call the visible visible Church the true Church it should appeare that they seeke not the marks of the true Church indeed but only of the shew shadow or shape of the Church And yet in very truth they seeke but the marks of the shadow of the church For the inuisible Church consisting only of the iust and elect which alone they will haue to be the true Church hath no certaine marks else we should know certainly who were the iust and elect And this themselues confesse for thus writeth D. Whitaker Cont. 2. quest 5. cap. 8 ProtestaÌ„ts giue no marks of the true Catholike Church The question is not of the marks of the inuisible Church Againe VVe say the marks of the Catholike Church simply so called are knowne to God alone And D. Humfrey to 3. reason of F. Campian pa. 281. sayth that the marks do not reach vnto the nature of the true Church And the reason is manifest because as I sayd otherwise we should know who were the iust and elect 4. If any againe reply that when Protestants say The true visible Church they meane the visible Church true in doctrine in which speach there is no contradiction according to their owne opinion because they admit that the visible Church that is the society in true doctrine and right vse of Sacraments into which Church or society the wicked or reprobate may enter may be true in doctrine though they graunt not that such a Church or society be the true Church in nature or essence Which perhaps Vorstius meant in his Antibellarm pa. 180. when he sayd The outward Church is not without cause called the true church of Christ by reason of the prosession of true doctrine I answere if they so meant why did they not speak so were they ignorant that it is one thing to be true in doctrine or in speach and another to be true in nature as a lyer is a true man in nature of man but not true in his speach Or if they did know this why did they abuse the words and their hearers Moreouer though in this sense their words did not destroy themselues as they did in the former yet fondly should they as they vse to do assigne the truth of doctrine for the marke of the true Church in doctrine For this were to assigne a thing for a mark of it self as if to know a true man of his word one should giue this marke that it is such as speaketh truth Besides this were rather to define what is a true man then to giue the marke to know who is a true man And yet marks are giuen to know which is the true Church not what is the nature of the true Church 5. If yet any reply that the visible Church or
society in profession of true doctrine and right vse of Sacraments is termed of Protestants the true Church not because this Church or society is of it self the true church or the society instituted by God but because alwayes in or vnder it there is the true Church to wit the society in iustice and predestination by reason that in euery company of them that professe true doctrine and rightly vse the Sacraments there are some who are sociated and vnited in iustice and predestination Which D. Whitaker intimateth when Cont. 2. quest 4. cap. 1 pag. 485. he sayth The visible Church which holdeth and professeth true sayth is the true Church only of the part of the elect and predestinated I answere that this supposeth a thing doubtfull and perhaps false For what certainty can there be that in euery particuler company of them who professe the true fayth rightly vse the Sacraments there is alwayes a coÌ„pany of the iust and elect when as Christ sayth Many are called but few are chosen Matt. â—0 especially if as Protestants say one or two make a church Surely Danaeus Cont. 4. pag. 689. seemeth to deny this saying These visible companies are sometymes a part of that true Church sometymes none But admit that in euery company of true professors there be always a company of iust and elect what reason were this to terme the society in profession of true fayth the true Church if in deed the society in iustice predestination be the only true Church This would suffice to say that the apparent Church could neuer be separated from the true Church but not to call that society the true Church which indeed is only the outward appearance of the true Church And much lesse would it suffice to call it the church properly so termed the spouse and body of Christ the Catholike Church the Church which we professe to belieue as the Protestants haue termed the visible Church Neither can these epithets or names be giuen to any other society then to that which hath the true nature and substance of the Church indeed because they signify as properly and expresly that only Church as she can be expressed of vs by any words whatsoeuer And sith Protestants haue giuen them all to the visible church they must needs confesse that shee hath the nature and substance of the very true Church indeed and consequently that an inuisible Church is no true Church indeed 6. Fourthly I proue that the Church cannot be inuisible ProtestaÌ„ts somtyms say that the church cannot be inuisible because oftentymes Protestants do confesse it The Apology of the Confession of Ausburg chap. of the Church The Church is principally the society of fayth and of the holy Ghost in the hearts which yet hath her outward markes that she may be knowne Luther vpon the 4. chap. of Genesis tom 6. fol. 56 The Church was neuer so voyd of externall marks that it could not be not knowne where God was certainly to be sound And vpon 51. psalm tom 3. fol. 474 For Christ will not lye hid in the world but will be preached not between wals but vpon the house top Melancthon vpon the 11. of Daniel tom 2. pag. 511 It is necessary that the Church be a visible company Againe VVe seigne not an inuisible Church like to a Platonicall idea And in the Preface of his 3. tome he thinketh it so absurd to put an inuisible Church as he sayth To what tendeth that perdigious speach Monstruous to say the Church was inuible which denyeth that there is any visible Church We must needs confesse a visible Church And vpon the 3. chap. 1. Tim. tom 4. pag. 398 Others sayth he setting aside wholy the externall shew do speake of an inuisible Church as of a Platonicall idaea which is no where seene or heard Kemnice in his common places title of the Church cap. 3 God will haue vs to know where and which is the Church Therefore she must be knowne not to God only but also to vs and therupon is defined to be the visible company of them who imbrace the Ghospell of Christ and rightly vse the Sacraments Iames Andrews in his book against Hosius pag. 210 VVe are not ignorant that the church must be a visible company of teachers and hearers Againe The Church is and is called a company of men chosen of God in which the word of God soundeth incorrupt c. Hunnius in his treatise of Freewill pag. 91 God in all tymes hath placed his Church as in a high place and hath exalted it in the sight of all people and Nations Hutter in his Analysis of the Confession of Auspurg pag. 430 The elect are not the whole Church no if you speake only of the true church For the church consisteth not only of inward sayth in Christ but also of the outward administration of the word Sacraments Now as farre as this in outward rite is performed so farre the true Church truly is visible Beurlin in the Preface of his Refutation of Sotus I confesse the Church of Christ is alwayes to be acknowledged visible And he addeth that all confesse the same The same doctrine is taught by Gesner loc 24. by Adam Francis in his 11. place and by other Lutherans Amongst the Sacramentaries thus writeth Vrsin in Prolegomenis ad Catechcsin pag. 2 The Church must needs be seene in this world that the elect may know vnto what company they must adioyne themselues in this life Iunius Cont. 4. lib. 3. cap. 13. affirmeth that it is impious to say that the Church can wholy want a visible forme Keckerman in the 3. book of his Theologicall systeme writeth that the Church must always be sensible that other nations may know to what church they ought to adioyne themselues and that Confession of sincere doctrine can neuer faile wholy nor the visible church wholy erre Danaeus in his booke of the visible Church dareth to say that who denieth the true church of God and that visible to haue byn from the beginning of the world he without doubt sheweth himselfe to be ignorant in holy scripture Amongst our English Protestants M. Hooker in his 3. booke of Ecclesiasticall policy pag. 126 God hath had euer euer shall haue some Church visible vpon earth D. Feild in his 1. booke of the Church cap. 10 For seing the Church is the multitude of them that shall be saued and no man can be saued vnlesse he make Confession vnto saluation for fayth hid in the heart and concealed doth not suffice it cannot be but they that are of the true Church must by profession of the truth make themselues knowne in such sort that by their profession and practise they may be discerned from other men And D. White in defence of his Way cap. 4. pag. 390 I acknowledge the prouidence of God who hath left the records of history to confirme our fayth and freely graunt our religion to be false if the
22 I deny sayth be this Succession of Pastors to be alwayes notorious to the world And in his answere to Stapletons Cauillat who will acknowledge that she alone it the true Church who can shew her Pastors in a continuall succession D. Humfrey to 3. Reason of F. Campian p. 288. confesseth that not so much as the names of the Pastors who taught their Church were extant D. Whitaker Cont. 2 quest 5. cap. 6. page 508. thus writeth VVhat then was the succession of our Pastors alwayes visible No. For this is not needfull Though therefore our Pastors were not in tymes past manifest neither can we name then yet c. D. Morton in the first part of his Apology lib. 1. cap. 21. sayth that the Catholike church cannot alwayes shew the ordination of Pastors D. White in his way to the church pag. 410 I haue shewed the teachers of our fayth do lawfully succeed and so alway haue done though not outwardly and visibly to the world The like he hath pag. 411. and 436. Sadel wrote his book de vocatione MinistroruÌ„ against such Protestants as thought that their ministers wanted all lawfull calling because sayd they they haue no perpetuall visible succession from the Apostles vnto these tymes And himselfe there pag. 560. confesseth that visible succession hath byn broken of for many years in the church Thou seest good reader how they plainly confesse that before Luther start vp their Pastors were vnknowne to the world not manifest their succession not always visible their names not extant nor they can be named of Protestants And indeed and effect they all confesse the same when as none of them can produce any one man worthy of credit who heard any Protestant preacher who before Luther arose preached iustification by only fayth and the other fundamentall points of Protestancy 2. Secondly Luther eyther complaineth or boasteth for sometyme he alone preached Protestancy In his Preface vpon his 1. tome At first I was alone Luther alone And in his booke of the captiuity of Babylon tom 2. fol. 63 At that tyme I alone did role this stone And against the King of England fol. 497 I alone stood in the battell I alone was compelled to cast my selfe vpon the weapons of the Emperour and the Pope I stood alone in danger forsaken of all helped of none And vpon the graduall psalmes tom 3. fol. 5â—5 In the beginning of my quarrell I took all the matter vpon my selfe and did think that by Gods help I alone should sustaine it And otherwhere as before is reported he sayth that without him others should not haue knowne one iot of the Ghospell Melancthon in the Preface of the Acts of Ratisbon tom 4. pag. 730 sayth Luther alone durst medle with the errors of the Popes schooles Zuinglius in his Exegesis to 2. termeth Luther Ionathas who alone durst set vpon the campe of the Philistians And Caluin in his Admonition to Westphalus pag. 787. saith Luther alone doubted not to set vpon all Popery Besides Luther as before we haue rehearsed writeth that the only scripture was left whereby men might recouer the fayth But if at that tyme there had byn other Protestant Pastors the scripture had not byn alone and without Luther men might haue learnt the gospell Neither had Luther byn left alone and forsaken of all The Protestant Ministery wholy perished but some of them would haue stept out and seconded him especially after they saw that the preached without all danger 3. Thirdly Protestants do sometyme plainly say that their ministery was wholy perished before Luther arose Taken away Luther in his booke of priuate Masse tom 2. fol. 249 Papists haue taken out of the Church the true Ministery of the word And of the Institution of Ministers fol. 372. Aboloshed he writeth that Protestant ordination was by Papists abolished and extinguished And vpon the graduall psalm tom 3. fol. 568 The Church had no true Ministry vnder Antichrist No true Ministery Vpon the 25. of Genesis tom 6. fol. 319 In our tyme after those Popish monsters the true knowledge of the word and of diuine ordination was extinguished And vpon the 49. chap. fol. 655 Extinguished VVe are not the church for any ordinary succession Caluin epist 290 Because the true ranck of ordination was broken of by the tyranny of the Pope now we need haue new help to raise againe the Church BrokeÌ„ of And in Answere to Sadolet pag. 132. he writeth that when the supremacy of the Pope was set vp the true order of the Church perished Perished And of true reformation p. 322 Not without cause do we auouch the Church of God for some ages to haue byn so ioâ—ne and scattered that is it was destitute of true Pastors Beza in his Catechisme Destitute of Pastors title of the Church cap. 5 sect 18 In our tyme it came to passe thinges being so fallen downe that there was left no place for ordinary vocation And epist 5. pag. 39 In our tyme ordinary vocation Ordinary vocation no where which no where was neither could nor ought to be expected And Epist 24 Ye know being taught by fresh examples how the publike ministry being as it were ouerwhelmed for a tyme yet the church of God remaineth And epist 81 The matter came to that passe Ouerthrown to the grouÌ„d that the Ecclesiasticall order was wholy ouerthrowne euen to the foundation the vaine names therof only remayning And lib. de Notis Eccles pag. 82 They who in our memory haue freed the church from the tyranny of Antichrist had none of whome they might lawfully aske or receiue imposition of hands And epist 86 It is maniâ—est that for some ages lawfull order was quite abolished in the Church Quite abolished none not so much as the slenderest shadow of the cheifest part of ecclesiasticall calling remayning The French Confession art 31 Sometymes as in our age the state of the Church being interrupted it was needfull that some Pastors should be extraordinarily raysed of God Sadeel also de Vocat Ministrorum p. 556. sayth that true Order of Pastors was interrupted D. Whitaker Cont. 2. quest 5. cap. 6. pag. 510 VVe say that our mens calling was not ordinary but extraordinary Wholy corrupted because ordinary calling was wholy corrupted Againe The state of the Church was fallen and wholy ouerturned And pag. 612 VVhen ordinary succession was corrupted God found an extraordinary way by which the Church might be restored For God would that this restauration should be made not in the old foundation that is in succession of Bishops but after a certaine new extraordinary manner And D. White in defence of his way cap 49. pag. 421 Finding no other kind of Pastors sayth that the Protestant Pastors were euen those who liued in communion of the Roman Greek Armenian and such like Churches and addeth that his aduersary doth deceiue the reader when he intimateth that Protestants goe
Brentius in his Apology for the confess of Wittemberg pag. 873. speaking of Protestants sayth VVe also once were all fooles seduced and seducing and seruing idolatry and Antichrist Serauia defens lib. de Grad Minist cap. 2. pag. 33. I marke that the Authours of all Reformations which were made in our age were Priests of the Roman Church To al which I adioyne that Luther in cap. 2. Oseae tom 4. fol. 279. sayth that these be the speeches of Papists VVere yee not Christned in the Popes Church VVhy therfore go yee from her And he acknowledgeth that the Roman Church is their Mother but sayth that they haue left her because she is a harlot and an adulteresse And Scrauia de diuers Minist grad cap. 6. pag. 30. hath these wordes Popish Church Mother of Protetestants The Roman Church is our Mother in which and by which God regenerated vs but because she is a harlot and an Adulteresse we iustly contest against her The like hath Iunius lib. singulari de Eccles cap. 17. and others commonly So that they acknowledge themselues to be the children of an harlot and consequently bastardes not begotten of God because God begetteth not children of harlots but only of his chast spouse the Church Let them therfore heare the Romā Church speaking to them in these words of S. Hierome Dial. cont Lucif If an Angel or Apostle haue rebaptised thee I breake not that which thou followest But if thou borne in my lappe nourished with the milke of my breasts doest draw thy sword against me restore what I gaue thee and be if thou canst a Christian by other meanes I am a harlot but yet thy mother I keep not chastity to one husband such I was when thou wert begotten Or els let them harken to S. Athanasius It remayneth that they find fault with the basenesse of their stock De Synod Arim. Seleuc. and say that they came not of pious but of heretikes neither feare they that which is written in the Prouerbs An ill brood curseth their father Or else let them giue care to S. Augustin thus speaking to the Manichees doe so slaues of Cham. L. 11. cont Faust c. 24 lib. 6. c. 5. Get you gon who despise the naked flesh wherof you sprung Againe Yea thou often maryed to elements or rather harlot prostitute to deuils and great with sacrilegious vanities darest thou reuile Catholike maryage of thy Lord with the crime of vnchastity But omitting this because Protestants regard not how farre they disgrace themselues so that they reuile the Church of Rome out of that which we haue rehearsed in this Chapter it appeareth how impudently D. Morton 1. part Apol. lib. 1. cap. 10 wrote that Melancthon Pellican and others were Protestants before Luther arose and much more impudently D. Feild sayd lib. 3. de Eccles cap. 8 that before Luthers time those who defended the Popish errors were but some faction like to those in the Church of Corinth who in S. Paules time denyed the Resurrection which vntruth is so apparant as to haue related it only is to haue confuted it But here by the Reader seeth how needfull it is for me to heap vp many testimōies of Protestants for to proue euen those things which are most manifest 11. My sixt demonstration therfore I frame in this manner If all Protestants who were first knowne whether people or perticuler persōs were Papists before Luther began to preach then were there no Protestants before him and he author of their Church But all the first knowne Protestants were such Ergo. The Maior is manifest by it selfe the Mimor by that which hath bin recited in this chapter That no Protestant ancienter then Luther did come forth and adioyne himselfe to his company when Luther safely preached CHAP. XII THE seauenth demonstratiō for to proue Luther to be the first Beginner of Protestancy shall be taken from thence that after that Luther securely preached Protestancy no Protestant ancienter thou he peeped out and adioyned himselfe vnto him This I proue first out of the reall Confession of all Protestants who neither then nor hitherto could name one such Protestant Whereupon it followeth necessarily that Luthers company was altogether new no one member thereof before him neither did he adioyne those whome de drew out of Popery vnto any company before extant neither did any company which had bin before adioyne it selfe vnto him Secondly this may be proued by the silence of D. Whitaker Cont. 2. quest 5. cap. 3. where being vrged with this argument he answeareth it with silence only and standeth mute as confessing the accusation to be true Thirdly I proue it by the sillinesse of the Answeares of other Iunius lib. 4. de Eccles cap. 5. sayth only that some ancienter Protestants came forth and adioyned themselues to Luther but nameth none nor proueth any thing therfore giueth words nought else He should as Tertullian said to old heretikes haue feignes the names of some Praescrip c. 32. For after blasphemy what may not they doe But I know not how it cometh to passe that wheras Protestants feigne many things and persons yet they dare not feigne names As D. Sutliue when in the Preface of his book of the Church he had sayd only that Bolsec who wrote Caluins life doth insinuate that he wrote for hire after growing more bould in his answeare to exceptions cap. 4. pag 120 deuiseth a synode D. Sutcliue feigneth a Synod in which as he sayth Bolsec publikely recanted the book which he had writtē of Caluins life Of which Synode none before him euer heard but since D. Morton and M. Beard write that they haue heard of it 1. part Apol lib. 2. cap. 33. Beard Motiue 12. perhaps by D. Sutliue but yet durst not feigne the names either of the men who held this synode or of the place where it was held nor yet specifie the yeare of our Lord when it was held This he left to others to feigne or to himselfe at more leasure 2. Fourthly it may be proued by the ridiculous nomination and prouing made by some D. Morton part Apol. lib. 1. cap. 16. writeth that Melancthon Pellican Lambert Capito Osiander Sturmius Bucer came forth which he proueth because Alphonse a Castro in the epistle dedicatory of his booke against heresies hath these words Neither did Luther in this age come forth alone but accompanyed with a great troupe as with a guard and nameth those before cited But first it is ridiculous to say that the foresayd persons were Protestants before Luther sith partly themselues partly Protestants deny it as we shewed in the former chapter Againe it is ridiculous to proue this by Castroes testimony who being a Spaniard and those all Germans except Lambert who was a French mā it is most likely that he neuer knew thē nor heard of their names before Luther had reuolted Moreouer ridiculous it is to imagin that in the forecited words
also in that name it cannot be sayd that they are called so in disgrace or contemp Fourthly it appeareth to be false that D. Morton lib. cit and D. Sutliue lib. de Eccles cap. 2. say It is rather to be attributed to a lye then to Luthers desert that Protestants call themselues Lutherans For as we see Luther himselfe called them so and therin they follow his example Neither skilleth it that Luther did once dislike this name because he did oftentimes vse it it was vsuall to Luther to allow and disallow the same thing Fiftly we see it to be false which D. Whitaker writeth cont 2 quest 5. cap. 2 pag. 494 None of vs euer called himselfe a Lutheran we acknowledge not these names nor are we delighted with them This name our aduersaries haue fastened vpon vs only vpon malice and enuie Neither are we called Lutherans but of the Papists False also is that which D. Fulke sayth de Success pag. 188. that they acknowledge no other name proper to their religion but the name of Christians and Catholiques These I say are false for Luther whome D. Whitaker accounteth his father and the Lutherans whome he termeth his brethren in Christ doe call themselues so and are well pleased with that name Besides they are so termed of the Sacramentaries and common people and therfore not of Papists only nor vpon malice and enuie but as Grauer sayd truly for distinction sake and that most iustly For as S. Athanase sayth VVho deriue the origen of their saith from other then Christ iustly carry the surnames of their Authors But Protestants as we haue shewed confesse that they deriue the origen of their faith from Luther Therfore iustly they beare his name 8. Out of all which hath bin rehearsed in this chapter I thus frame my ninth demonstration of this Matter If Luther and many other famous Protestants sometimes indeed some times in plaine words do confesse that Luther was the Author of their Church and religion he ought to be so taken and esteemed But they do soe confesse Ergo. The Minor is euident by all that is sayd in this Chapter And the Maior by what we sayd in the Preface For so many and such principall Protestants knew well the origen of their religion and willingly would not lye to the disgrace and ouerthrow therof That Protestants cannot proue their Church to haue bin before Luthers time by any probable argument or sufficent testimonie CHAP. XV. THE tenth and last demonstration for to proue that Luther was the first Author of the Protestants Church and religioÌ„ I will take from hence that albeit Protestants doe sometimes boldly affirme their Church and religioÌ„ to haue bin before Luthers time Yet they can neuer proue it by any reasonable argument or sufficent testimony Which thing alone would suffice to shew that as I sayd before it is a fable vainely feigned falsely affirmed and fondly beleiued It hath bin alwayes the fashion of heretiques boldly to auouch any thing but few things to proue euen in shew This S. Augustin doth often obserue in the Manichees and Donatists and some of his sayings we haue alleadged before Of Eunomius S. (a) Lib. 2. cont Eunom Basil noteth the same and S. (b) Serm. 6. in psal 118. Ambrose of all heretikes saying Heretiques are wolues they can howle but proue nothing And this doe Protestants confesse For thus D. Whitaker cont 2 quest 5. cap 18 Heretikes are wont to boast and promise truth In Diatrib but not to proue it Of Luther thus writeth Zuinglius tom 2. fol. 473. and 509 One argument he hath in all these matters He sayd it And fol. 447 Luther relyeth only vpon his â—oyes and deuises Fol. 395 Thou puttest forth whatsoeuer the motion of thy affections do appoint and when a reason of thy saying is exacted of thee thou standest naked vnarmed And of the Lutherans thus writeth Erasmus They say it and for that alone they will be belieued Of the Sacramentaryes in like manner Luther writeth in defens verb. Coenae tom 7. fol. 384. One word not easily ouerturneth all these thinges for if you deny them then as butter melteth in the sun so they quaile And the same is euident to all that read the bookes either of Lutherans or Sacramentaryes In the meane tyme they cry to vs that that Pythagoricall word He sayd it hath no other place but in (c) VVhit lib. 2. de script cap. 10. sect 5. Bullenger in comp l. 1. c. 3. Christ and the Scripture that in other it is the proper argument of (d) Vorstius Antibel p. 468. fooles that to affirme any thing beside scripture is to (e) Powel l. 1. de Antic c. 19. trifle that til we proue our affirmatiue they will stand in their (f) Luth. tom 2. fol. 437. negatiue and exact (g) Vorstius l. cit Fulke de success p. 74. demonstrations that is either expresse testimonies of scripture or forcible reason deduced from thence Now we say the same to them They affirme their Church to haue bin before Luthers time We deny it vntil they proue it Neither let them affirme it only which is the proofe of fooles wilfull men but if they cannot bring demonstrations therof at least let them produce some credible testimonie or some effectuall reason and argument Otherwise their beliefe in this matter Scorp c. 11. is as sayth Tertullian a peruerse beliefe which will not belieue thinges proued and belieueth thinges which cannot be proued 2. That in this matter they be destitute of all credible testimonie appeareth sufficently by what hath heretofore bin rehearsed of their owne confessions and now we will shew that they want also all probable reason or argument For all their arguments herein be reduced to this one Our doctrine is the doctrine of Christ Therfore our Church was alwayes since Christ For thus agreeth D. Whitaker cont 2. q. 5. c. 3. p. 498 I vse this argument VVhat Church soeuer keepeth the doctrine preaching of the Apostls she is the Apostolical Church But our Church doth so Therefore c. Of the Maior sayth he no controuersy can be made And cap. 5. p. 505 It was our Church which was in the tyme of the Apostles and afterward vnto the Apostasie But how doe we proue this By this reason that our Church keepeth the same faith and doctrine which the Church in the Apostles time and afterward kept And cont Dureum sect 1 If thou holdest Christs doctrine thou art a Catholike And sect 2 It must needs be the true Church of Christ which keepeth conserueth Christs doctrine deliuered in his word Dancus cont 3. pag. 388. VVith vs is the true Church of God because we restore the true doctrine of Christ Lubbertus lib. 5 de Eccles cap. 1 If the doctrine which our Church professeth be the same which Christ deliuered then our Church is that which Christ instituted D. Fulke lib. de Success pag. 27 Seeing we are