that the Apostles taught none other faith in steede of true Christiantie but that which we hold as we are readie to proue by the worde of God And at this daye the most parte of Europe is conuerted from Idolatrie heresie and Antichristianitie vnto the same true faith that we mainteine as in England Scotland Ireland France Germany Denmarke Suetia Bohemia Polonia by publike authoritie in Spaigne and Italie a great numbre vnder persecution and tyrannie Also of the Iewes no small numbre are conuerted to our religion since the rising vp of the Gospell in our dayes 3 Or any Church but the common Catholike Church to haue don that and I recant BEcause you meane by the common Catholike not the true Catholike but the popish church First I denie that euer the popish church conuerted any people to the true faith Secondly I denie that the popish church hath conuerted all nations to the profession of Christ For it is shewed before that the false Apostles and Arians conuerted some nations to the profession of Christes name but yet to false religion And it is also manifest by histories that the Grecians whome the papistes counte no parte of their church but schismatikes conuerted the Moscouites first of all vnto the profession of the name of Christ which yet continue in their religion being neither the true faith nor yet popish religion As for the popish church as it is certeine that it hath peruerted and corrupted all partes of the Latine or Westerne Church with Idolatry and false religion so it shal be harde for the papistes to proue that it hath conuerted any Nation from Gentility to the popish religion except some partes of Germanie and them by force of armes rather than by preaching and teaching as appeareth by the conuersion of Liuonia Anno Domini 1200. of Prussia Anno Domini 1254. and of Lithuania Anno Domini 1386. wherefore I conclude that seeing I haue shewed that our Church holding the true doctrine of the Apostles is that which conuerted all nations to true religion and that the popish church hath not conuerted any people to true religion nor all people to the profession of the name of Christ this chalenger whosoeuer he be do the recant The second article conteyneth 4. demandes 1 I aske of him what Church it was which hath induced the Christian people through the whole worlde to geue most humble credit in all points to the holy bookes of the Byble I Aunswere it was the Church of Christ and not the Popish church which hath commended the bookes of holy Scripture to be beleued of all true Christians where soeuer they be although it be the office of the holy Ghost to open the hartes of men and to forme them that they may beleue the scripture to be true like as it is the office of the scripture or worde of God to trie and examine whether it be the spirite of God that perswadeth vs to beleue any thing so the spirite beareth witnesse to the worde and the worde to the spirite As for the popish church it coulde not induce the Christian people to geue credit to the scripture in all pointes because she is contrarie to the scripture in many pointes and euen in the cheefest pointes of Christian Religion namely in pointes concerning the glorie of God and the saluation of mankinde geuing the glory of God to dead men and dumbe Images and denying the mercy of God pourchased by the onely sacrifice of Christes death to be the onely cause of mans saluation Finally seeing it is manifest by the aunswere to the first article that the popish church did not conuerte all nations to the profession of the Christian faith it is euident thereby that the popish church did not induce all them that are called Christians to geue credit to the bookes of the holy Bible as this chalenger woulde haue it to be thought 2 VVhat Church hath had the discerning seuering of them from other writinges of all sortes THe Church of Christ hath not an absolute authority to allow or refuse bookes of the scripture but a iudgment to discerne true writinge from counterfaicts the word of God of infallible verity from the writing of men which might erre this iudgement she hath not of her selfe but of the holy Ghost as for the popish Church it can not be said to haue this iudgemēt of discerning the scripture of God from other writings not only because she is so blind that she can not discerne betwene the Canonical bookes of the scripture from the Apocrypha writings as appereth by receauing the bookes of the Machabees Ecclesiasticus c. to be of equall authoritie with the bookes of the Law Psalmes c. but also because she is so presumptuous as to compel men to beleue that Customes and traditions writinges of doctors decrees of Popes and Councells are equall with the authoritie of God his worde yea are of force to alter and change the lawe of God and the institution of Christ set forth vnto vs in the scripture And although she boast that she receaueth all the bookes of scripture yet this proueth no more that she is the Church of Christ than was the churches of the Arrians Donatistes Nouatians Euthychans other heretikes which receiued the Bible as well as the Popish church 3 VVhat Church hath had the custodie of them and most safely hath preserued them for the necessary vse of God his people and from the corruption of aduersaries as well of Iewes as heretikes of all sortes THe prouidence of God hath alwayes preserued the Scripture both from the violence of tyrants from the falshoode of heretikes and hath neuer suffred the true Church to be destitute of the necessarie vse thereof But the popish church hath not kept the scripture for the necessary vse of the people which hath so kept it in an vnknowen tongue that the people coulde haue no vse much lesse the necessary vse thereof wherefore if this be a note of the Catholike Church to kepe the worde of God for the necessarie vse of God his people it is plaine that the popish church is not the Catholike Church which hath kept the scripture so that God his people coulde haue no vse thereof And if the only custodie of the scripture from corruption of heretikes be a sure note of the Church why is not the Greeke Church the Catholike Church which vnto this day hath kept the scripture as safely as the popish church why are not other Estern Churches of Asia which neuer acknowledged the Pope or popish religion true Churches which likewise haue preserued the scripture as we haue seen of late that the newe Testament is printed in the Syrian tongue at themperours charges for the encrease of Christian faith among them And finally why are not the Iewes the Catholike Church which haue kept the old Testament in Hebrue more faithfully than euer the Papistes And because they boast of safe preseruing of the scriptures
AN ANSVVER OF A TRVE CHRISTIAN TO THE PROVDE CHALLENGE OF A counterfet Catholike By VVilliam Fulke Doctor in diuinitie Imprinted at London by Thomas Vautrollier dwelling in the Blacke Friers 1577. To the Christian Reader THIS short treatise gentle Reader hath lyen by me neare hand or altogether tenne yeres space vvritten at the request of a godly learned friend of myne in aunsvver to a proud challenge of a Papist against the Protestant VVhich though at the first and many yeares after I determined not to publish supposing the same challeÌ„ge to haue ben priuate or in fevve mens handes yet novv of late that I haue seene it in diuerse godly gentlemens handes to vvhom it hath bene deliuered by Papistes belike to peruert them and of vvhom also I haue bene desired to auÌ„svver it and am further credibly informed that the same is in print esteemed of many ignorant Papistes to be so vnansvverable that although it hath bin protested by gentlemen of great vvorship and credit that they haue seene the auÌ„svvere therof in vvriting yet they vvil not beleue that any man dare set his penne to the paper once to attempte the matter I haue novve thought good to put it in print as it vvas vvritteÌ„ at the first Nothing douting by Gods help but I shall be able to stand to the defence if the Challenger vvill proceede to mainteyne his challenge any longer And vvhereas the same of late hath bene ioyned vvith my confutation of the doctrine of purgatory and yet is desired of many to be set forth in seuerall because the argument is more generall it is thought good to satisfie their desire to spare their exspenses that being resolued in the matter of purgatory doe yet stagger in the challenge of the Church The breuity that I haue vsed as I vnderstand is misliked of some men vvhich vvoulde haue vvished a larger discourse but seeing the Challenger requireth shortnes if this that is vsed be sufficient to satisfie his demaunds or any of them a longer treatise vvere but superfluous If he thinke him selfe not throughly aunsvvered declare the same in all or in part that vvhich is novve omitted shall then God vvilling be supplied In the meane time vse this gentle Reader and fare vvell in the Lorde The faultes of this impression are thus to be amended The first figure signifieth the page the second the line Pag. 3. line 35. Lithuania reade Lithuanda 5.3 vvriting r. vvritinges 10.10 the scripture reade the booke of scripture 13.17 then reade thou and line 19. you reade thou 15. line the laste Tâ—â—erius reade Liberius 19.4 you reade the and line 10. Ca. line 58. reade Carolines 8. and line 19. Mercamas r. Marranias 22.9 fauour reade honor â—3 26 the prince reade the printers 24.1 put out and. 25.9 not for his r. for his 29.10 vnitie of minde r. vnitie of faith minde 30.3 in the places aboue rehearsed in diuerse places of his epistles a. lib. 3. epist. 14. and 15.16 c. 41.30 Rhenes r. Rhemes 49.5 the the r. that the. the 12. r. the Catho c. 52.13 in Brytish reade in the Brytish 63.14 about the articles r. about the chiefest articles 64.20 put out that hilde and the 24. here rea sore 67.21 vvhich can not rea vvhich you can not 68.4 in a name reade in a manner 69.4 prorsus opinemur r. prorsus non opinemur and 34. vniuersally r. vniuersalitie and 36 vvhich you do r. vvhich you do not 70.17 proponeÌ„da r. praeponeÌ„da 22. in a r. in the. 24. vvhen r. vvheÌ„ the. 71.20 vvhere rÄ™a vvere and the 22. to reade in 78.26 that you savv a bastard church r. that you being a bastard church haue 87.34 Commentualls rea Conuentualles 91.32 that he rea then he 92.30 cultiued r. coÌ„tinued 97. â— your reade youres 99.13 there rea therefore 14. vinci reade vâ—icè AN ANSVVER OF A TRVE CHRISTIAN TO A COVNTERFAIT CATHOLIKE The proposition of the Aduersarie CHrist did commit at his departure hence the testimony of that truth for which he died and the conuersion of the Nations to the beleefe in him to the true church of God which then stoode principally and almost onely in the persons of the Apostles and a fewe more that by their preachings and those afterward of their calling the Christian religion might be planted in all Nations beginning at Ierusalem and so proceeding to the coastes and corners of the earth AN ANSVVERE TO THE PROPOSITION I Graunt that our Sauiour Christ at his departure hence commaunded his Apostles as principal members of his Church though not the greatest part of it to preach the doctrine which he confirmed by his death vnto all nations beginning at Ierusalem and so forth according to his saying Goe therefore and teach all Nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost Teaching them to obserue all thinges what so euer I haue commaunded you Matth. 28. Whereuppon I chalenge the Papist that if he be able to proue that the doctrine of poperie is all that trueth and nothing but that trueth for which Christ dyed and which he commaunded the Apostles to teach I will acknowledge the popish church to be the Church of Christ The first article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 First I aske of the protestant what Church that was which conuerted all these cuntries that be now Christian to the faith of Christ IF you meane by Christians true Christians and by the faith of Christ the true faith of Christ I answere only the true Church of Christ hath had the worde of God and sacraments as meanes which God vseth to subdue al nations vnto the obedience of the faith as was the primitiue Church of the Apostles which hath continued vnto this daye by succession not of personnes and places but of faith and truth wherefore if the Papist can proue that we holde not the same faith and trueth vnto which the Apostles conuerted the nations we refuse to be called the Church or Congregation of Christ But if by Christians and Christian faith you meane all them that professe the name of Christ in the whole worlde I aunswere that the true Church of Christ did not conuert them all for in Aethiopia there are yet people conuerted by the false apostles which taught circumcision and obseruation of the lawe in which heresie they continue vnto this day and it is manifest by all histories that the nations of the Alanes Gothes and Vandales were first conuerted by the Arrians 2 And let him shew vnto me that euer his Church conuerted any people or lande in the earth from Idolatrie or Gentility or Iudaisme to the true Religion of Christ or that this his fayth was taught to any Nation in steede of true Christianity VVE are members of that Church which conuerted all landes in the earth that are conuerted from Idolatry Gentility Iudaisme or heresie to the true Religion of Christ and we affirme
all men that are learned in the tongues can testifie in how corrupt a Latin translation they haue kept the scriptures both of the olde and of the new Testament 4 And let the Protestant declare to me that their Congregation hath had from time to time or euer had right herein or any other Church sauing the Catholike Church and I recant OVr Congregation which is the body of Christ hath euer had both right and possession of the inestimable treasure of the word of Christ her heade as appeareth by this that our Church and Congregation beleueth nothing but that she learneth in it acknowledgeth that all thinges profitable to saluation are sufficiently conteined in it and finally in all thinges submitteth her selfe to the iudgemēt of it But the popish church which beleueth many thinges contrarie to the scripture teacheth many thinges beside the scripture necessary to saluation and refuseth to haue her faith doctrine and ceremonies to be iudged by the scripture neither hath neither euer had any right to the scripture though she haue neuer so many bookes of them in possession Wherefore these thinges considered this chalenger doth recant The third article conteyneth 5. demandes 1 Shew me why our common knowen Church did not as well corrupt the text of the Testament as the true religion conteyned in the same THere may be diuers good reasons shewed why your Church commonly knowen to be the church of Antichrist did not as well corrupt the text of the Testament as the true religion conteined therein First because she coulde not the copies thereof being so many by the prouidence of God dispersed throughout the worlde Secondly because she thought it not so needefull hauing other meanes to worke her deuilish deuise For although she coulde not corrupt the scripture yet it made the lesse matter because she founde meanes to diminish and controll the authority therof by aduancing decrees of men Popes and Councells to be equall or of greater authoritie than the scripture Thirdly because she woulde be lesse in feare to be reproued by the scripture she prouided that the knowledge thereof shoulde be hidden from the vnlearned people by a strange tongue and from the learned by the tedious mazes of questions deuised by her Canonistes and Sententiaries Fourthly because she submitted all interpretation of the scripture to her owne iudgement and therefore woulde not be controlled by the iudgement thereof but woulde alwayes expound it as it liked her best As appeareth by Ockam and Duns who though they confesse that transubstantiation seemeth to them contrary to the scripture and reason yet they beleued it because of the authoritie of the church and for none other cause These are the reasons why the Romish church did not as well corrupt the text of the Testamēt as the true Religion And yet how corrupt that Latine translation is which they woulde needes thrust vpō vs is sufficiently knowen to all learned men euen in such texts as are the most coulerable places for the defence of Popish doctrine I will geue one example for all They alleage the text 1. Cor. 10. Qui stat videat ne cadat He that standeth let him take heede he fall not against the certainetie of faith whereas the Greeke hath not he that standeth but he that thinketh he standeth let him take heede he fall not Thus the popish church cannot altogether excuse her selfe from corrupting of the text of the Testament whether it was of fraude or of ignorance or of negligence the Lorde knoweth 2 Shew me why she kept not so safely and faithfully the true sense of God his word as she preserued the word it selfe BEcause it was against her owne estimation and profit which are the chiefe endes for which popish Prelates mainteyne popish religion Take away the Popes prerogatiue which is contrary to the sense of God his word downe goe Cardinalls Legates Prothonotaries downe goeth all the Court of Rome take away workes of supererogation which are contrary to the Scripture downe goe Abbeys Priories and Chantries Take away the sacrifice of the Masse Purgatory which are contrary to the word of God downe goeth the estimation and gaynes of all the popish clergie And this is the cause why the popish church kept not so safely and faithfully the true sense of God his word as she preserued the word it selfe although she preserued not the word it self in such safetie as becommed the Church of Christ 3 Shew me why we should beleue the Papistes as you terme them for the word it self and rather you Protestants thā them for the meaning of the word WE doe not chalenge credit to our selues in any poynt so presumptuously as the Papistes that men must beleue it because we affirme it But because we proue it to be true by the worde of god And therefore for the meaning of the word you should beleue vs rather than them because our groundes proues are better then theirs or else we require not to be beleued better than they 4 Shew me why you beleued our Church telling you this to be God his booke will not credit her auouching this to be the true and vndoubted sense of the same booke IF we had no better ground to perswade vs of the authoritie of God his booke than the testimony of your Church you may be sure we would not beleue it But because we haue most stedfast assurance of God his spirite for the authority of that booke with the testimony of the true Church in all ages If you say it is God his booke we beleue you not because you say so but because we know it to be true But if you bring out a false sense we beleue you not because we know it to be false are able to proue by the word of God that it is contrary to the meaning of the holy Ghost To be plaine with you we geue as much credit to your Church as to the deuill When the deuill sayth it is written He shall giue his angells charge ouer thee and with their handes they shall hold thee vp that thou dash not thy foote against a stone We beleue that this is the worde of god But when he auoucheth this to be the meaning of it that we may cast downe our selues from a Church steeple without daunger we doe not beleue him because we know this sense is contrary to an other Scripture which sayth Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. So when you say these wordes are the Scripture of God This is my body We beleue it because we knowe it to be true But when you say this is the meaning of these wordes This bread is turned into my naturall bodye we beleue you not because it is contrary to all places of Scripture which proue the trueth of Christ his humanitie or naturall body Thus I shewe you why we beleue you if you say the Scripture is God his word namely because we know it to be true why we beleue
you not saying this is the meaning of it that is because we knowe by the word of God that it is false 5 Last of all Shew me why you beleued the olde known church affirming this to be the word of God and will not beleue her affirming Luther to be an heretike shew me good reason or Scripture for these thinges and I recant IF you meane by the olde Church the primitiue Church whose testimony of the word of God we allow beleue I deny that the primitiue Church did affirme Luther to be an heretike or the doctrine that he taught which we hold to be heresie but I am able to proue that the primitiue Church from which you haue receiued the Scripture affirmeth your doctrine to be heresie your Church the Church of Antichrist But if by the old knowne Church you meane the Church of old knowne to be the Church of Antichrist which is the popish church we beleue the deuill if he speake the trueth and we beleue not an Angell comming from heauen if he bring any other Gospel than S. Paule deliuered to the Galathians Therefore when your church affirmeth Luther to be an heretike seeing we know that Luther did not obstinately and malitiously erre in any article of faith concerning the substance of religion we doe not beleue her and specially because she is a partiall witnesse against him whome God vsed to discouer so much of her wickednesse to her great hindrance there is no credit to be geuen vnto her when she goeth about to deface him by sclaunderous names and false accusations Thus I haue shewed these thinges that you require both by good reason and also by scripture Therefore if I may beleue you you recant The fourth article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 I demand what Church hath mightely gonne through borne downe and fully vanquished all heresies in times past aswell against the blessed Trinitie as other Articles of our religion I Aunswere the true Catholike Church hath alwayes resisted all false opinions contrary to the worde of God as her duty was and fought against them with the sworde of the spirite which is the worde of God and by the aide of God obteyned the victorie and triumphed ouer them So did Paule ouercome the Iewes Act. 18. So did the fathers of the primitiue Church from time to time confute heresies by the scriptures and declare in their writinges that by them they are to be confuted for examples sake of a great number I will alleage a few Hylarius writing of the blessed Trinitie against heretikes Lib. 4. sayeth Cessent itaque propriae hominum opiniones neque se vltrà Diuinam constitutionem humana iudicia extendant Sequamur ergo aduersus irreligiosas impias de Deo institutiones ipsas illas diuinorum dictorum authoritates vnumquodque eorum ipso de quo quaeritur auctore tractabimus Wherefore let opinions propre to men geue place and let not mens iudgements stretche them selues further than God his constitution Therefore against these vnreligious and vngodly opinions of God let vs follow the very authority of God his sayings and handle euery one of them by the aide of him about whome the question is Thus Hylarius woulde haue heresies against the Trinitie to be confuted not by mens iudgement but by God his word Basilius magnus very often testifieth that he woulde haue all good thinges proued by the scripture and all euill thinges confuted by the same In his moralles Dist 26. Euery worde or deede must be confirmed by the testimonie of holy Scripture for the perswasion of good men and the confusion of wicked men And in his treatise of Faith we know that we must now and alwayes auoide euery voice or opinion that is differing from the doctrine of our Lorde And in his short definitions to the first interrogation whether it be lawefull or profitable for a man to permit vnto him selfe to do or say any thinge which he thinketh to be good without the testimonie of the holy Scripture he aunswereth forasmuch as our Sauiour Christ sayeth that the holy Ghost shall not speake of him selfe what madnes is it that any man shoulde presume to beleue any thing without the authoritie of God his worde By these and many other places it is manifest that Basilius woulde haue heresies and false opinions confuted by the holy Scriptures Chrysostome vpon Luke cap. 16. sayeth that the ignorance of the scriptures hath bred heresies and brought in corrupt life yea it hath turned all things vpsidown by which it appeareth by what meanes he would haue heresies kept away namely by knowledge of the scriptures It were to long to reherse all the places of S. Augustine by which his minde appeareth that he would haue the Church sought onely in the scriptures and heretikes confuted onely by the scriptures to whose onely authoritie in many places he professeth that he him selfe will be bounde as epist. 19. ad Hieronymum Epist 48. Vincentio Epist 111. Fortunatiano Epist 112. to Paulina contra Faustum lib. 11. cap. 5. Contra Cresconium Grammaticum lib. 2. cap. 31. 32. de Baptismo contra Donatistas lib. 2. cap. 2. De meritis remissione peccatorum contra Pelagianos lib. 3. cap. 7. De naturae gratia cap. 61. De gratia Christi contra Pelagium cap. 43. De nuptijs concupiscentia lib. 2. c. 29. In these places S. Augustine preferreth the authority of the Canonicall scripture before all writinges of Catholike Doctors of Byshops of Councells before all customes and traditions But that he would haue the true Church sought onely in the scriptures it is manifest by these places first in his 48. Epistle to Vincentius Nos autem ideo certisumus neminem se a communione omnium gentium iustè separare potuisse quia non quisquam nostrum in iustitiae sua sed in scripturis Diuinis quaerit Ecclesiam speaking of the Donatistes he sayeth We are suer that no man could iustly separate him selfe from the communion of all Nations because none of vs seeketh the Church in his owne righteousnesse but in the holy Scriptures So if the Papistes woulde not presume of their owne righteousnesse but seeke the Church of Christ in the scriptures they would not separate them selues from the communion of Christes Church now by God his grace inlarged farther than the Popish church Also in his booke De vnitate Ecclesiae cap. 2. he hath these wordes Inter nos autem Donatistas quaestio est vbi sit Ecclesia Quid ergo facturi sumus in verbis nostris eam quaesituri an in verbis capitis sui Domini nostri Iesu Christis puto quod in illius potius verbis eam quaerere debemus qui veritas est optimè nouit corpus suum The question is betwene vs and the Donatistes where the Church shoulde be what shall we doe then shall we seeke her in our owne wordes or in the wordes of her heade our Lorde Iesus Christ I thinke we ought
of Asia because they thought that such as were baptized by heretikes shoulde be baptized againe he was misliked by Dionysius of Alexandria and diuers other godly bishops as appeareth by his Epistle wrytten to Xystus Euseb lib. 7. â—ap 5. Cyprian also reproueth him very sharply for the same opinion accusing him of presumption and contumacy Epi. ad Poâ—npeium and in his epistle to Quintinus he sayth plainly that Peter himselfe was not so arrogant nor so presumptuous that he would say he held the primacy that other men should obey him as his inferiors When Anastasius Innocentius Zozimus Caelestinus bishops of Rome all on a row chalenged prerogatiue ouer the bishops in Aphrica by forginge a faise Canon of the Nicene Councel they were withstoode by all the bishops of Aphrica who decreed that none vnder paine of excommunicatioÌ„ should appeale to any bishop beyond the sea Concil Aphrican cap. 92. and that the bishop of the chiefe see should not be called prince of priestes or highest priest but onely bishop of the chiefe see Conc. Aph. cap. 6. When Celestinus by shop of Rome dealt hardly with the Nouatians Socrates testifieth he could doe not good with them because they enuied his ambition saying that the bishoprike of Rome like as of Alexandria was long before growen beyonde the bondes of priestbood into foreine lordship Lib. 7. cap. 11. By these examples it is plaine that although the mysterie of iniquitie beganne to worke in Victor Cornelius Stephanus Anastasius Innocentius Zozimus Bonifacius and Caelestinus yet it was reproued by some godly men as Irenaeus Polycrates Dionysius Alexandrinus Cyprianus the Councell of Aphrica and Socrates the Historiographer 4 VVHether all nations sodenly and in one yeare were moued to the doctrine of the Papistes no one man of all their true Church neither preaching teaching writing nor attempting any thing against it or making mention of it WHen the scripture telleth vs that the mysterie of iniquitie preparing for the generall defection and reuelation of Antichrist wrought euen in S. Paules time 2. thess. 2. it is foly to aske whether sodenly and in one yere all Religion was corrupted And yet all nations neuer consented to the doctrine of the Papistes for as it hath bene often saide the Greeke church and other Orientall churches hath neuer receiued the Popish religion in many cheefe pointes and especially in acknowledging the Popes authoritie what preaching teaching and writing hath bene against it is shewed before and shal be more declared hereafter 5 VVhether sodenly all bookes of seruice were altered NO forsoothe but by litle and litle in the Latine Church as for the Greeke Orientall Churches neuer receyued nor vsed your Latine seruice bookes 6 VVhether in a moment the Masse was saide in steede of other Apostolike Communion VVHen Durande your owne doctor sheweth what Pope sewed on euery patche that belongeth to your Masse it were foly for vs to say it came in sodenly and impudencie in you to affirme that it came whole from the Apostles which was so long a framing in so many peeces 7 VVhether men beganne sodenly to praye for the soules departed FIrst it is manifest that men had no warraÌ„t out of God his worde to pray for the dead and it can not be proued for 200 yeares after Christ by any credible author that it was vsed in the Church wherefore it is certeine that it was first planted by the deuill as were other abuses And because it hath a pretence of Charitie deceyued simple men the sooner Yet did it not so preuaile in the primitiue Church that they durst define what profit the soules receyued thereby for Chrysostome in his 3. Homelie vpon the first Chapter of the epist. to the Philippians sayeth Procuremus eis aliquid auxilij modici quidem attamen iuuemus eos Let vs procure them some helpe small helpe truely but yet let vs helpe them Likewise Augustine in the 9. booke and 13. Chapter of his confessions where he prayeth for his father and mother declareth how vncertaine he was of that matter one while he feareth the danger of euery soule that dieth in Adam An other while he beleueth that they neede not his prayer yet he desireth God to accept the same and moue other men to remember them in their prayers Thus it is necessary that they wander which leane vnto mens traditions without the worde of God. 8 Sodenly required the helpe of Sainctes in heauen VVHether sodenly or by litle and litle men were brought to such superstition that they required helpe of Sainctes it maketh litle matter seeing it is contrary to the worde of God and the example of the primitiue Church for 200. yeares after Christ Yet it is to be thought that it grew vp as other errors by litle and litle And S. Augustine in his booke De cura pro mortuis agenda wearieth him selfe and in the ende can define nothing in certeine how the Sainctes in heauen should heare the prayers of men on earth Such doubtfulnesse they fall into that leaue the word of God and leane to traditions 9 Sodenly the tongue of common prayers altered FIrst the Greeke church other churches both in Asia Aethiopia neuer receiued the Latine tongue but to this day continue in their vulgare tongue The Westerne Church for the most parte all spake and vnderstoode Latine as the sea coast of Aphrica Italye Fraunce Spayne Britayne as for Germany was lately conuerted to the faith Then seeing they spake Latine and had their common prayer in Latine The tongue of their common prayer was not altered but their speach was altered from the tongue of their common prayer and this was not sodainely for it was more than twelue hundred yeares after Christ before it was taken for a Catholike doctrine that common prayer should be vsed in latine S. Augustine preached in latine all the people vnderstoode him and that they might the better vnderstand him he doth vse such phrases and termes which were not pure latine but commonly vsed of the people as Ossum and Faenerare c. But soone after his time when the Gothes and Vandalles oueranne the Empire the latine tongue which before was not pure among the people began daily to be more corrupted and yet remained after a sort latine vntill the yeare of our Lorde 768. when Charles the great began to raigne in France and long after for within the time of his reigne which was 47. yeares a Councell was holden at Turon in France what yeare it is not certeyne but it is probable that in the latter ende of his empire in which it was decreed that euery bishop should haue certeine homilies Et easdem quisque apertè studeat transferre in rusticam Romanam linguam aut Theotiscam quo facilius cuncti possint intelligere quae dicuntur Turon 3. cap. 17. And that euery one studye to translate them plainly into the rusticall Romane tongue or into the Theotisce tongue that all men may more easily
purpose because the gouernment of the Byshop of Rome is most misliked of them and yet most notoriously knowne by euery historie let them name the Pope that first brake of the course of his forefathers beleefe regiment in any article of fayth or necessary Christian vsage and I recant I Haue named before Victor which was the first that went about to vsurpe authoritie ouer other Churches Also I haue named Boniface the third which was the first that chalenged to be vniuersall bishop For Gregorie the great sayeth Nemo meorum decessorum hoc prophano vocabulo vti voluit That is None of my predecessors woulde vse this prophane worde The same Gregorie as Hulderichus bishop of Auspourge doth testifie was the first that compelled priests to liue vnmaried which afterwarde when he saw the inconuenience he reuoked Thus hauing named diuers Popes that first brake the course of their fathers faith and regiment c. and more coulde rehearse but for auoyding prolixitie I chalenge your promise that you must recant The 12. article hath 3. demandes 1 Item I aske what kinde and order of seruice or common prayer what waye of ministring of the sacraments your Church had before Papistry as you call it did preuaile in the worlde IVstinus Martyr in his second Apollogie to the Emperour declareth plainely what order of seruice and ministration of sacramentes our Church had before Papistry preuayled On the daye called Sonday sayth he there is a meeting together of all them that dwell in the Citie or in the countrie and the monumentes of the Apostles or the writinges of the Prophetes are reade vntill it be thought sufficient when the reader hath made an ende he that is our ouerseer or cheefe minister maketh a sermon of admonition and exhortation to follow those good thinges that are reade After this we all stande vp together and make our prayers and as we haue saide before when our prayers are ended there is brought forth bread and wine water and the cheefe minister doth likewise with all his might yelde prayers and thankesgeuing and the people aunswereth Amen Then is made distribution to euery one and receyuing of those thinges for which thankes was geuen and to them that be absent it is sent by the deacons Such as are riche and willing doe geue almes what they will c. By this one authoritie it may be seene though other might be brought what order of seruice and ministration of sacraments our Church vsed before Papistry gat the vpper hande 2 Shew one booke of Communion or what els you list that was in English or lacked prayer for the departed or inuocation of Sainctes in heauen or that wanted oblation or sacrifice or that charged a number to receyue or els that the preest coulde not consecrate nor say Masse himselfe or shew any note in a Communion booke that the people shoulde take the sacrament for plaine breade or that they should geue no honor to it shew this booke or any leafe or line of this booke IT may trouble a wise man to aunswere all the questions that a foole can propounde you requier to see a booke of Communion in English or that lacked c. When it is confessed that the English nation receiued their religion first from Rome at such time as Religion there was verie corrupt what marueill is it if we can not shewe you such a Communion booke as you require but we can easily shew you out of the scripture the the Communion ought to be ministred in the vulgare tongue that prayer for the deade and to the deade ought not to be vsed that the sacrament ought not to be turned into a sacrifice that there ought to be a communiō of many receauers and not a priuate masse that the substance of the bread is not changed that the elementes of the sacrament are not to be honored these I say we can proue out of the worde of God the Catholike writers of the olde Church And though perchaunce it wil be harde to finde a communion booke in English yet haue I founde you a canon of the Laterane Councell that it ought to haue bene translated into English yet are there founde diuers monumentes of Antiquitie as Prayers Psalmes and Homilies c. in the olde English or Saxons tongue in which the reall presence transubstantiation and other poinctes of Popish doctrine are plainly confuted There may be shewed you also Bybles both the olde Testament and New in the English tongue of diuers translations in olde written hande Also great bookes of English homilies inueighing directly against the Pope and all Popish doctrine in olde English written hande with diuers other small treatises and pamphlets of like matters if these woulde do you any good you might haue the sight of them when you please 3 Or any Church or Congregation that euer had any Authenticall seruice but ours and I recant THe Church of the Brytannes before Augustine came in with Romish seruice had they not trow you Authenticall seruice which continued in the faith of Christ euen from the Apostles time The Grecians also Orientall churches haue they not vnto this day their Authenticall seruice which is not yours If you can not deny this you should recant The 13. article hath 2. demaundes 1 Furthermore I requier to know what shoulde be the cause that the Protestants themselues doe receiue all Byshops Priestes Deacons and other officers spirituall of all sortes of our Catholike church and doe admit them as men lawfully and sufficiently ordered both to preach minister sacraments and to exercise spirituall iurisdiction no lesse but rather more than if they were of their owne ordering where we of the Catholike church doe not acknowledge any man of their calling to be any whit more fitte for any spirituall function than other lay men ALthough all godly men wishe more seueritie of discipline to be vsed in receyuing them that come out of heresies to serue in the Church than is commonly practised in England yet you are highlie deceyued if you thinke we esteeme your offices of Bishops priests deacōs any better than the state of lay men but farre worse for we iudge them to be nothing els but Antichristianitie heresie and blasphemie And therefore we receiue none of them to minister in our church except they forsweare your religion And so their admission is not an allowing of your ordering but a new calling vnto the ministerie 2 Therefore vpon this presumption that they doe not onely admit our ministring of sacraments but also the lawfull ordering of the ministers for the same if they can shew me why our church hauing by their owne consent and approuing lawfull priestes and bishops should not be the true church I recant YOu presume to much as I saide before to thinke that we receiue your orderinge to be lawfull or your ministring of sacraments to be pure And if you gather that we admitte your ministration of sacraments because we doe not rebaptize