fastidia detergeret Nihil enim fere de illis obscuritatibus eruitur quod non planissimè dictum alibi reperiatur The holie ghost hath magnifically and wholsomlie so tempered the holy scriptures that with euident places he might satisfie hunger and with more darke places might wipe awaie disdainfulnes For nothing almoste is found out of those obscurities which is not found els where most plainlie vttered It were no hard matter to heape vp manie testimonies of the auncient fathers to this purpose but that the va nitie of this answerer appeereth sufficientlie in all our bookes written against the papists in which not onely by the manifest places of the scriptures but also by most euident testimonies of the doctors of the church we confute them in the most and greatest matters of controuersie that ate betweene vs. But what saith our gallant answerer that the councels fathers and anciters of theChurch haue from time to timedeclared the true sense of the scriptures vnto vs hath none of these at any time erred in expounding the scriptures may we safely beleeue them whatsoeuer they say He wil I warrant you deny it except the Pope of Rome do alow their interpretations And therfore this flying from the only scriptures to the interpretation of Coun cels fathers ancetors of the Church is nothing els but an impudent shift to reserue vnto the Pope liberty authority to make what meaning of scripture they please thereby to giue colour to euery fansie they list to father it vpon the authority of the holie scriptures The third cause he affirmeth to be that by chalenging of onely scripture they maie deliuer themselues from all ordinan ces or doctrines left vnto vs by the first pillers of Christs Church though not expressely set down in the scripture c. In deede to deliuer our selues from the burthen of mens traditions the ordinances or doctrines of men we affirme the holie scriptures to be hable and sufficient to make vs wise vnto saluation by faith in Iesus Christ as the Apostles and principall pillers of the Church haue taught vs who haue left no such ordinances or doctrines but they be either expressely set down in the holy scriptures or by plaine and necessarie collection to be gathered out of the same For how will our aduersaries prooue that anie thing is receaued from the Apostles which hath not testimonie out of the writings of the Apostles who can be a sufficient witnes of such de liuerie seeing manie things were of olde referred to the Apostles tradition which euen our aduersaries do not admit to be Apostolical seeing the most auncient and immediate successors of the Apostles as Polyearpus Anicetus can not agree about a ceremony receaued from the Apostles namelie the celebration of Easter what certentie can there be of anie other ordinances or doctines fathered vpon the Apostles without witnes of their writings yea and some times directlie contrarie and repugnant to their writings But hereof saith our aduersarie they assume authoritie of allowing or not allowing whatsoeuer liketh or serueth their turnes for the time and hereof he bringeth example First of the number of sacraments whereof some protestants haue written diuerslie because the name of sacrament is diuerslie taken sometimes largelie for euerie holie signe sometimes strictlie for such holie signes onely as being instituted of God are seales of the dispensation of his generall grace in the new teftament perteining to euerie member of the Church somtimes for al holy mysteries or secrets c. But what doth it serue anie protestants turne whether there be more or fewer signes in number that maie be called sacraments seeing all protestants agree about the things themselues that are set forth in the scriptures to be visible signes of grace inuisible and the name it selfe Sacrament in that sense we speake of when we saie there are 2. 3. 4. or 7. sacraments is not once vsed This diuersitie therefore is but of a terme and that not vsed in scripture therefore it ariseth not of anie interpretation or peruerse vnderstanding of the scripture as our answerer would haue it seeme to be But let vs heare his example Martin Luther saith he after he had denied all testimonie of man besides himselfe he beginneth thus about the number of sacraments Principiò neganda mihisunt septem sacramenta tantúm tria pro tempore ponenda First of all I must denie seauen sacraments and appoint three for the time Marie this time lasted not long for in the same place he saith that if he would speake according to the vse of onely scripture he hath but one sacrament for vs that is baptisme In this sentence how manie lies and slaunders be packed together First he saith Martin Luther denieth all testimonie of man which is false for he alloweth all testimonie of man that agreeth with the testimonie of God expressed in the scriptures and often citeth the testimonies of the auncient fathers for confirmation of the trueth which he taught indeede he alloweth man no authoritie to institute sacraments or to make articles of faith or lawes to binde the conscience of man and he would haue all mans testimonies to be examined and iudged according to the word of God but this is not to denie all testimonie of man but to distinguish true testimonies of man from false An other slaunder is where he saith that Luther in denying all mans testimonie excepteth him selfe which is altogether vntrue For he requireth none other credit to be giuen to his owne testimonie then he alloweth to the testimonie of other Neither doth he arrogate any authoritie to him selfe which he derogateth from other men And namelie in this booke of the captiuitie of Babilon he taketh not vpon him absolutelie to teach euerie point but so farr forth as he did for the present vnderstand of them promising after greater study more diligent inquirie to intreat of diuers of them more certenly euen in this verie place of the number of the sacraments he saith he will admit three onclie for the present time intending to be further a duised whether there be fewer or more to be entituled with that name Wherein our answerer offereth him the third iniurie in translating tria pro tempore ponenda I must appoint three for the time as though Luther had taken vpon him to appoint how manie sacraments the Church should haue or would challenge power to appoint more or Jesse at his pleasure where as his wordes if the answerer did not wilfullie corrupt them by false translation do import no such thing but onelie as farr as he did presentlie see there were no more but three of those that were commonlie called sacraments of the new testament which were rightlie to be called by that name The fourth slaunder is that Luther hath but one sacrament for vs which is Baptisme if he would speake according to the vse of onelie scripture yea this is a double slaunder for neither doth
diuine contemplation by those praiers that are sent vp vnto him Thus much Eusebius of the sacrifice of Christians As for Theophylact in the place by him quoted wherein either his Printer or his note booke hath deceiued him hath nothing touching this matter in question but vpon the 10. Chapter he hath the verie words of Chrisostome which I haue sette downe at large before Suboritur hîc quaestio c. Here riseth a question whether we also do offer vnbloodie sacrifice whereto I answere that we do certainlie but we keepe a memorie of the Lords death and it is one sacrifice and not mante seeing he was offered vp once for all For we offer vp the same alwaies but rather we keepe the memorie of that oblation wherein he offered him felfe as if it were done euen now Thus none of the auncient writers to whome he doth referre the reader for defence of his Popish sacrifice do speake anie thing for it and some of them do write directlie against it And now the answerer thinketh he might haue ended his preface but that he promised to shew that they offer most reasonable meanes of triall and that we in deede admit none at all Of both these partes we haue spoken alreadie sufficientlie to the conscience of all reasonable men yet must we further answere to such matters as he can obiect against vs. And first he saith All the controuersie being not of the words but of the sense of the scriptures we admit no Iudge but our selues To this I answere first that all the controuersie is not about the sense onelie but some about the wordes also where we alledge the interpretation of them out of the originall tongues and they wil admit none but the vulgar translation which in manie places is false in some places also corrupted from the integritie in which it was first written Secondlie that we admit no Iudge of it but our selues it is false of vs and true of them For they admit no interpretation of the scripture but that which their Church alloweth which alloweth nothing but that the present Pope alloweth whome they make Iudge of all interpretation and to whose Iudgement they will all stand Conttariewise we take vpon vs no iudgement but that which is common to all men by reason and learning to waigh all thinges that are brought vnto vs the cheife Iudge or rule to Iudge by being the holie scriptures in places of them selues euident and confessed or to be confessed by right reason of all that acknowledge the authoritie of the scriptures by them to finde out the obscurities of such places as are hard and haue neede of interpretation But if they bring scripture saith he neuer so plaine yet will we shift it of with some impertinent interpretation whereof he bringeth two or three examples in which you shall plainlie see how like a Papist he handleth him-selfe in all kinde offalshood and treacherie The first example is this The moste of the auncient fathers write bookes in praise of virginitie aboue wedlock and vsed to prooue it by the saying of Christ There be Eunuches which haue gelded them-selues for the kingdome of heauen he that can take it let him take it Also by the words of Saint Paul he that ioyneth his virgine in mariage doth wel and he that ioyneth her not doth better Which words being alledged against M. Luther who preferred marriage yea though it were of a vowed Nunne before virginitie he answered it thus That Christ by his words terrified men from virginitie and continencie and Saint Paul by this speech did disswade them from the same Now what could be replied saith he in this case trow you He beginneth with a lie and so he holdeth on For the moste of the auncient fathers haue not written bookes in praise of virginity aboue wedlock neither is he able to prooue that the one halfe of them haue wri ten bookes of that argument although manie of them haue in their writings mentioned that comparison Secondlie in the state of the controuersie he offereth vs shamefull iniurie for we all confesse that in the respects named by our Sauiour Christ and his Apostles virginitie is better then marriage in such persons as haue the gist of continencie but not in all respects and namelie not in such respectes as the Papists do preferre it of merite for them-selues and others c. nor in persons that lack that rare gift of continencie For neither Christ nor Saint Paul do saie that virginitie meriteth more then mariage or the profession of virginitie in all men though they haue not the gift of continencie is better then a chaste life in holie matrimonie Wherefore that which we affirme against the Papists is against that which they affirme more then Christ or S. Paull spake and is more then by anie lawfull demonstration can be prooued out of their words Thirdlie in rehearsing the text against the plainnes whereof he bringeth Luthers interpretation he fraudulentlie leaueth out those wordes whereupon the exposition of Luther is grounded namely these words non omnes capiunt c. All men are not capable of this saying but they to whome it is giuen If you aske of what saying the text is plaine his disciples said vnto him If the cause of aman and his wife be so that he may not be diuorced but for adulterie it is not expedient to marrie but all men saith Christ doe not receiue or cannot take this saying For there be three kindes of Eunuches or gelded men the third onelie being voluntarie and for an excellent end is commendable so it be giuen vnto him that he maie take it He that can take it let him take it Is it not euident by this text that Christ terrifieth all such men from this high attempt to whome it is not giuen and exhorteth them onlie which haue the gift to vse it Now to come to Luthers interpretation First he saieth that Luther preferreth Marriage before virginitie yea though it were of a vowed Nunne This as it is simplie set downe is a lowd lie for Luther acknowledgeth the preferment of virginitie before mariage in persons hauing the gift and for the end and respects by Christ and Saint Paull named as by his owne wordes in diuerse places of his workes is manifest and most plainlie Exege ad Cap. 7. Ep. ad Cor. 1. Nam sicubi coniugium quis cum coelibatu conferat praestantius certè donum est coelibatus For if a man compare mariage with virginitie virginitie verilie is a better gift Concerning the mariage of a vowed Nunne if she haue the gift of continencie and will renounce the superstitious and blasphemous end for which she vowed virginitie and vse it to the glorie of God you shall heare Luthers iudgement Nec ideo caelibatum virginitatem reprobare mihi 〈◊〉 est nec inde quenquam ad iugale vinculum inuitare quisque pro dono suo diuinitus impartito vt potest feratur For
the sense and true meaning of thinges them-selues And this is Chrisostomes meaning not of traditions altogether without the compasse of the scriptures and yet held necessarie to saluation For of the sufficiencie of the scri ptures he speaketh in diuers places and namelie vppon that cleere text 2. Tim. 3. Hom 9. of the scripiure he saith Siquid vel diseere velignorare opus sit illic addiscemus If anie thing be needefisli to know or not to know in the scriptures we shall learne But because you saie those wordes of Saint Paulare cleere 2. Thess. 2. for vnwritten tradititions I praie you what argument can you conclude out of them Saint Paul deliuered to the Thessalonians something by preaching and something by writing ergo he deliuered something that is not contained in the holie scriptures written either by himselfe or anie other of the holie men of God appointed for that purpose Who is so childish thinke you to graunt you this consequence therefore for anie thing you haue brought or can bring or anie thing that the fathers haue said or can saie the word of God writ ten is perfect and hable to make a man wise to saluation by faith in Iesus Christ which is to be had sufficientlie in the holie scriptures as Christ him-selfe doth witnes Iohn 5. 39. And so the former conclusion doth still stand It is great iniquitie to receiue traditions altogether beside the holie scripture as necessarie to saluation which must needes argue the holie scriptures of imperfection and vnsufficiencie Neither doth the consent of Antiquitie refute this assertion of Master Charke seeing the auncients as it is said spake either of doctrine not expressed in word but contained in deede in the scriptures or els of rites and ceremonies the perpetuall obseruation where of is not necessatie to eternall life as is prooued by the discussing of manie of them which the elder fathers do father vpon the tradition of the Apostles as much as anie other that they name And if you saie they were deceiued in such as are abolished how shall we know that 〈◊〉 not in such as are retained For in their 〈◊〉 they were all generallie receiued as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as well such as are discontinued as those 〈◊〉 remaine 〈◊〉 if any man will aske you what be these Apostolicall 〈◊〉 in particuler you could alleadge him testimonies 〈◊〉 auncient fathers for a great number But you referr 〈◊〉 Saint Cyprian Serm. de ablut pedum Tertullian 〈◊〉 milit and Saint Hieron dialog contra Luciferianos 〈◊〉 say he shall finde store Belike your note booke 〈◊〉 you thither although you listed not to take so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 your selfe but turne it ouer to your 〈◊〉 Howbert he that is disposed to read the sermon 〈◊〉 Cyprian shall finde no store at all but of the necessitie of washing offcete which ceremonie was taken by the example of Christ yet is not thought necessarie in the Popish Church at this daie Tertullian in deede hath some prety store yet not to mantaine popish traditions so much as to ouerthrow them For he 〈◊〉 some things that are taken out of the scripture as to renounce the deuill in Baptisme c. some that are growne out of vse manie hundred yeares agoe as that the baptized should taste of milke and honie that they should abstaine from washing seauen daies after That men should signe their forheade at euerie steppe and proceeding going forth and comming home at putting on of apparell and at pulling on of shooes at washings at table at lighting of candells at beddes at stooles at all times and places Saint Hierome also in the person of the heretike rehearseth traditiones and among them such as Papistes do not obserue namelie the mixture of milke and honie geuen to them that are newlie baptized On the Lords daie and during the wholl time of Pentecoste neither to kneele in praiers nor to fast These are parte of those Apostolical traditions in particular which if they had beene necessary to saluation must haue beene perpetuallie continued If they were vntruelie ascribed to the Apostles what wartant can we haue of any other seeing the most auncient writers commend these as much as anie other for Apostolicall traditions Yet a few other examples you wil adde out of Saint Augustine whoe prooueth baptisme you sare by tradition of the Church lib. 10. de gen ad lit cap. 23. to this answere hath beene made sufficientlie in the 11. section that Saint Augustine doth not defend baptisme of infants onelie by the custome of the Church but also by the scriptures Likewise you saie he prooueth by the same tradions that we must not rebaptize those which are baptized of heretikes lib. 2. de bapt capt 7. lib. 1. cap. 23. lib. 4. cap. 6 It is true that he perwsadeth him selfe that this custome of not rebaptizing came from the Apostles tradition yet doth he by many arguments out of scripture prooue that such are not to be baptized againe which haue beene once baptized although by heretikes and therefore he saith of the same matter Hoc planè verum est quia ratio veritas consuetudini praeponenda est Sed cùm consuetudini veritas suffragatur nihil oportet firmius retineri This is plainlie true that reason and truth is to be preferred before custome but when truth consenteth with custome nothing ought more steadefastlie to be 〈◊〉 You see therefore that he buildeth not onelie vppon custome or tradition which is the matter in question but vppon trueth and reason which is founded by the holie scriptuers Your middle quotation de bap lib. 1. cap. 23. you may correct against your nextreplie for there are but 19. Chapters in that booke Againe you saie He prooueth by tradition the celebration of the Pentecost commonlie called Whitsontide ep 11 c. 1. If it were as you saie it is but a matter of ceremony not necessarie to saluation but in the power of the Church to alter as many like which are abrogated But in trueth he prooueth it not as you say by tradition For these are his wordes Illa autem quae non scripta c. But those thinges which are kept beeing not written but deliuered which are obserued thoroughout all the worlde it is giuen to be vnderstoode that they are retained as commended and decreed either by the Apostles them-selues or by generall Councells the authoritie of which is moste whollesome in the Church as that the passion of our Lord and his resurrection ascension into heauen and the comming of the holie ghoste from heauen are celebrated with yearelie solemnitie You see by his owne wordes that he is not certaine whether he should laie this ceremoniall celebration vpon deliuery of the Apostles or vpon decrees of general coun cells And whencesoeuer they came the matter is not great in such thinges as of their owne nature are indifferent and therefore alterable by discretion of the Church in all times Whether the Apostles were baptized which is
some to be obstinate or dissemblers he may know who is to be bound and who to be loosed which he cānot do by hearing the diuersity of their sins For if their sins be as red as scarlet if they be truelie penitent they are to be loosed and if they seeme neuer so small if they be not repentant nor humblie contrite in heart for them they are to be bound While you seeke to make a difference betweene the authoritie of the minister in the Ghospell of pardoning sinnes more properlie then the priest clensed the Leper you declare that you are not content with the sentence of Saint Ierome nor of so many of the auncient fathers as made the case all alike And where you saie it was not said vnto them as vnto ours whomsoeuer you punish with Leprosie or make vncleane he shal haue a Leprosie you speake beside the booke For this authoritie was giuen to them that they should make cleane or vncleane and whomesoeuer they made cleane he was admitted into the congregation and whomesoeuer they made vncleane he was so accounted of all men Yet properlie they made neither cleane nor vncleane but declared them so to be according to the institution which they had of Gods law in exercise whereof although they erred and so the partie might be receiued or refused according to their error yet was he neither cleane nor vncleane in deede by their sentence but by the work of God and so be sinners The blasphemie that you ascribe to Saint Hilarie I haue confuted before Your distinction of prius natura and quoad nos is foolish sophistrie in this case For except God first worke in our hearts by his holie spirit faith of forgiuenes we can haue but small comfort in the priests absolution That God doth alwaies wörke at the instant in which Baptisme is ministred it is false if Saint Augustines doctrine be true who reacheth that Baptisme may be receiued out of the Church but cannot haue effect but in the Church that is if the partie came from heresie and submit him selfe to the Catholike Church ALLEN And so it is in penance where God the principall and the priest the secondarie or seruisable cause ioyntlie forgiue together For so the words of institution of this sacrament doe moste plainlie conuince whose sinnes you shall forgiue they beforgiuen he speaketh in the present tence as though he would saie as you forgiue them or reteine them ipso facto I forgiue them or reteine them And therefore sauing the honour of the Master of the sentences he had not good consideration when he did holde as some other did after him that first mans sinnes be remitted by God in his contrition and purpose to come to the sacrament and afterwarde the same remission to be declared by the priests and as it were confirmed by his approbation in confession being therein partlie deceiued by the saying of Saint Hierome before alledged whome he tooke perchaunce to haue compared in all respects the office of the olde Priest for the viewe of the vncleane and ours of the new law in the iudgement vsed vpon mans sinnes and partlie as I take it by a sentence of Saint Augustine which compared together the receiuing of Lazarus by Christ and the Disciples loosing his bandes to Christes pardoning of sinnes first and then the priests loosing the same afterward in the face of the Church This to be shorte is a peece of Saint Augustines sentence Quid ergo facit Ecclesia cui dictum est Quae solueritis in terra erunt soluta nisi quod ait Dominus soluite illum sinite abire What doth the Church then to whome it was said vhatsoeuer you loose it shall be loosed Marie she doth that which our Lorde saied loose him and let him goe Wherein Saint Augustine meaneth nothing els but that Christ is the principall agent and that he properlie doth giue life to the soull the Priest for all that beeing his seruant and minister therein and therefore by nature is a latter agent in the same worke which els as I haue prooued ioynilie perteineth to them both for that the effect of a Sacrament commeth not to any man till it be receiued except it be in certaine cases of necessitie where the parties can not obteine the externall rse of the appointed element though they earnestlie desire the same But how the olde Priests office touching the Lepers of the law representeth our sacrament of the priests ministerie in the new Testament and how farre ours which is the truth excelleth that which was but a shadow of ours Saint Chrysostome doth excellentlic declare and therewith fullie may put out of doubt all men that our Priests properlie worke remission of sinnes as ministers in the same diuine action and not as declarers or approouers of that effect which before was wrought by God himselfe Thus he saith Corporis lepram purgare seu veriùs dicam haud purgare quidem sed purgatos probare Iudaeorum sacerdotibus solis liccbat at verò nostris sacerdotibus non corporis lepram verùm animae sordes non dico purgatas probare sed purgare prorsus concessum cst Quamobrem mco iudicio qui istos despiciunt contemnuntque multò sceleratiores ac maiori supplicio digni fuerint quà m fuerit Dathan vnà cum suis omnibus That is to saie To purge the Leprosie of the bodie or ells to saie as it was in deede not to purge but to discerne who were cleane was graunted onelie to the Priests of the olde law but it is fullie graunted to our Priests not to purge the bodilie lcprosie nor to snew who are cleaner purged but vtterlie to purge the verie filth of mans soull Therefore by my iudgement whosoeuer doe contemne or despise them they are much more worthie punishment then the disobedient Dathan with all his companie Thus saith this holie Father with many wordes moe which were worthie all consideration and rememberance in this case if the matter were not so abundant that it may not suffer ouer long abode in one place lest iniurie be done to other braunches of the cause no lesse necessarie to be knowne for full vpholding the truth thereof FVLKE Your argument taken of Christs speaking in the present tense is vaine and of no force to prooue that the forgiuenes or reteining of God and man concurre in one instant For in the latter sentence of reteining the verbe is of the preterperfect tense 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but in the same sense that the verbe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the former sentence which is of the present tence proouing Gods forgiuenes to goe before mans declaration thereof The Master of the sentences is litle beholding to you that doc so flatlie condemne him of error whereas he did write nothing in this point which was not commonly receiued in the Church of Rome in his time and long after For among the articles in quibus Magister non tenetur there is
the least they disdaine to submit themselues to the Priests whom God hath giuen power vnto to discearne the cleane from the vncleane But I would thou shouldest not beguile thy selfe by false perswasion or some respect of shame that thou hast to confesse vnto the priest who is Gods Vicare For I tell thee thou must vnder his iudgement whome God doth not disdaine to constitute his Vicegerent But this Doctour made a wholl worke of penance and the waies of recouerie of Christian mans fall after Baptisme by the Priests iudgement and sacrament of Confession Of the which bookes if any man list doubt yet let him be assured that they be both auncient Catholike learned and agreeable to the doctrine of Saint Augustines daies whosoeuer made them And our cause is so much more holpen because not onelie Saint Austine who is plaine in these matters vpon Saint Matthwes Gospel and els where as it is declared alreadie but also other of great antiquitie confirme the same and plainly confound the pride of our daies in which men are not somuch ashamed of their sinnes as they be disdainefull to confesse their sinnes vnto a poore priest though he iustlie accupie the verie iudgement seat of God FVLKE You doe wiselie to deuorce vpon his meaning when you haue not his wordes to warrant you For so you maie blinde the eyes of the ignorant to beleeue that you haue som farther intelligence of meaning then can appeare euen by the words that you haue cited out of him For the 〈◊〉 of condemnation is not by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 against them which are ashamed to confes their faults to men if they amend them before god but against them that flie the knowledge and iudgement of men and yet doe not repent before God And therefore he saith si ea confiteri aut emendare noluerirt if they will not confesse them or amende them and againe si in maio suo permanserint if they shall continue in their euill But if they will amend their faultes and not continue in sinne he dare promise them forgiuenes and life euerlasting as is declared in the last section But now you charge vs with Saint Agustines authoritie and yet you will not abide by it that it is Saint Augastines authoritie wherein you deale more sincerely then Papists are commonlie wont to doe to acknowledge that these bookes you vouch are not admitted for Saint Augustines authoritie Among so many great and large volumes as are certeinlie knowne and generally receiued to be of Saint Augustines writing where you can finde nothing but these bookes of vncerteine credit to mainteine the necessitie of auricular confession the indifferent reader may well gather how litle ground your purpose cā finde in that age of S. Austins For that you haue declared alreadie out of S. Austine vpon S. Matthewes Gospel ells where how plaine it is for these matters let the reader iudge by that I haue answered in those seuerall places But as touching the bookes de visitatione 〈◊〉 being one of the two treatises that you cite as it is certaine that it was not of S. Austines writing so hath it no similitude with the doctrine of his time or with the stile of anie learned or auncient father The Censure of Erasmus vpon these bookes is this Sermo locutulei nec docti nec diserti Quid habuerunt vel frontis vel mentis qui talia scripta nobis obtruserunt nomine Augustini c. These bookes are the speach of a pratler neither learned nor eloquent What shame or wit had they which haue thrust vpon vs such writings vnder the name of S. Augustine Yet you dare assure vs that they be auncient Catholike learned and agreeable to the doctrine of Saint Augustines daies But the reasons of your assurance you spare to shewe giuing vs nothing but your bare word which is sufficient among vnlearned and sottish Papists whose ignorance you knewe would accept whatsoeuer you brought and therefore were carles what all the learned of the contrarie parte might iudge of your impudent and shameles assertions Concerning the other whole worke of penance which you affirme that this doctour made although it were graunted that Saint Augustine was author of that worke of repentance as it shall be easilie graunted that if not Saint Augustine yet some other auncient and learned father was the writer of them neuertheles there is nothing in them by which you are able to prooue the matter in controuersie namelie the necessitie of confession of all mortall sinnes to a Priest And therefore albeit you set a good face vpon the matter you haue neuer a sentence to set downe out of those bookes that is able to giue but onely a glosse or colour to your Popish confession For if you had you woulde not haue beene silent in setting forth the sentence of another beside Saint Augustine as you saie and as I thinke of great antiquitie who against them that be impenitent and neither acknowledge their sinnes vnfainedlie before God nor studie to amend and reforme their wicked life writeth vehementlie shewing three kindes of repentance one before baptisme in them that are of yeares another after baptisme which is dailie sorowing for our infirmities in saying the Lordes prayer the third of heinous and notorious sinnes offensiue to the Church of them that are excommunicated and are not to be receiued without open confession and signes of humilitie But the necessitie of confessing all thinges to a poore priest iustlie occupying the verie iudgement seate of God there is no word in either of those two bookes De medicina poenitentiae de vtilitate poenitentiae ALLEN And Saint Ambrose these mens auncient somewhat did knowe this practise so well and allow it that he did sit in his owne person on confession as Paulinus doth recorde whose behauiour in that diuine office that all Priestes maie perceiue and all the people note I will report Quotie scunque illi aliquis ob percipiendam poenitentiam lapsus suos confessus esset it a flebat vt ilium flere compellerat Causas autem criminum quas illi confitebaniur nulli nisi Domino soli apud quens intercedebat loquebatur bonum relinquens exemplum posteris sacerdotibus vt intercessores apud Deum sin magis quà m accusatores apud homines That is to saie So often as anie man came vnto him to confesse his faultes and receiue penance he so wept that he made the Penitent to weepe also But the faults themselues which they confessed he vttered to no man but to God alone to whome for their sinnes he made sute leauing a blessed example to all Priestes of the posteritie to account themselues rather as intercessours to God for sinnes then accusers of men before the worlde for their sinne This saieth Paulinus of Saint Ambrose whereby at once we see the iudgement of them both for our matter FVLKE The iudgement of Saint Ambrose concerning the necessitie of popish thrift or auricular confession we haue
abstinencie from wine and strong drink his dailie excercise of praier and contemplation when he was alone his diligent and zealous preaching and baptifing when the multitudes came to him his free and earnest rebuking of all mens sinnes euen those that were greatest in credit the Pharises the Saduces the high Priests and the King him-selfe All these ioyned together are such arguments of austeritie and seueritie of life as not onelie all antiquitie but all ages past present and to come may worthelie wonder at as for the place the garment the dyet be not matters of so great admiration of themselues neither so wondred at of all antiquitie as he bableth not yet followed of his Mocke-monkes and false Eremites that either the wildernes is their dwelling or the Camels heare their weede or the locusts and bitter honie their diet or anie thing answering to these in hardnes Their Monkes dwell in palaces their Eremites in fine houses neere to cities and great townes their apparell though in fashion disguised yet neither rough nor hearie nor of smalest price their dyet like Princes and noble men the life of the greatest parte of them idle and lasciuious Therefore to their owne shame they may account Ihon Baptist the Prince or first author of their Monkish order whome they follow as neare in austeritie of life as they much come behind him in course of time I trust all reasonable men may now vnderstand what these vnlearned quarrels come vnto when they be discussed and examined howsoeuer they seeme to be bolstred out with impudent asseuerations multitud of quotations false cauillations and vnnecessarie collections In the rest therefore I wil be more briefe because my purpose is not to handle common places of controuersies at large but shortlie to discouer the vanitie and pride of this answerer and leaue such matters to other treatises where they be fullie answered A third example he taketh of our impertinent interpretation about the controuersie of the reall presence in the sacrament which is nothing els but a beggerlie crauing of a matter still in question which can beare no shew of of anie lawfull example except it were cleere against vs that our exposition were beside the text or contrarie to it But peraduenture this fellow will bring some new matter that hath not beene heard of in this cause to conuince vs of absurd interpretations First he saith they haue these wordes of scripture repeated in foure seuerall places This is my bodie If we did vtrerlie denic the sacrament to be the bodie of Christ in anie sense it were somewhat that he saith against vs But we graunt it to be the bodie of Christ in such sorte as Christ did meane by those wordes Contrariewise we shew the one part of the sacrament to be six times called bread after the consecration in the scripture the other part twise or thrise to be called the fruite of the vine yet your gare interpreters the Papists do vtterlie denie the one to be bread the other to be wine in anie sense but monstrous and imperceptible and that against the iudgement of all antiquitie and the plaine wordes of diuerse auncient doctours But all antiquitie to our answerer a great antiquarie as you shall sec by and by are so cleere for the Popish reall presence as no man might without great offence doubt thereof as the wordes of Saint Ambrose and Saint Cyrill are These bookes that he quoteth of lib. 4. de sacram C. 5. for Ambrose and Catech. 4. for Cyrill are not so without controuersie acknowledged to be so auncient as those fathers whose names they beare and yet they saie nothing in this cause of not doubting but we are readie to saie the same Namelia that Christ hauing said this is my bodie no man ought to doubt but that it is his bodie They haue also other wordes to declare that their meaning was not of the popish manner of presence but the spirituall manner of eating of Christs flesh where of the externall sacrament is a figure and similitude as Ambrose de sacr lib. 4. cap. 4. 5. de iis qui my ster init cap. 9. The same Cyrill also though much to be suspected for his antiquitie as verie latelie come into light yet saith in the same place that the bodie of Christ is to be receiued by fatih not as the Capernaites imagined which thought they had been prouoked to the cating of a mans flesh But that same Cyrill saith our answerer in another place prooueth at large that to aske onelie quomodo how it may be is the parte of an vnbelecuing Iewe quoteth lib. 4. in 10. cap. 13. In deed Cyrillus Alexandrinus affirmeth and we subscribe vnto him that to aske how God can doe that he said he wil doe commeth of Iewish incredulitie He saith not that it is a part of an vnbeleeuing Iewe to ask how Christs words are to be vnderstood figuratiuely or properlie carnallic or spirituallie Neither doth he speake in the place alledged of Christes reall presence in the sacrament but of the question of the Iewes how Christ could giue his flesh to be eaten which we beleeue verilie he doth not one lie in the sacrament but euen to infants which neuer receiued that sacrament or els we must exclude them from eternall life according to his words except ye eate the flesh of the sonne of man and drinke his blood you shall haue no life in you But now you shall plainlie see how skilfull this answerer is in all antiquitie whereof he talketh so often and so confidentlie as bayard is alwaies the boldest horsse The same Cyrill saith he speaking of him vnder whose name are caried those my stagogical catechesis is he that wrote vpon Iohns gospell c. whereas the one was Bishop of Ierusalem in Palestine the other of Alexandria in Egypt the one not much nearer in time to the other then the prouinces where they were Bishops are in place For Cyrill of Ierusalem was a verie olde man in the time of the second generall Constantinopolitane councell Cyrillus of Alexandria was president of the third generall councell of Ephesus the first betweene which two Councels there was aboue fortie yeares distance in tyme. By which note of grosse ignorance it is manifest that this scorneful proude answerer hath neuer seene the workes of the one Cyrill nor of the other but one lie the quotations and collections of other men which he vseth as vauntinglie as they were all of his owne reading yea if they be not pregnant inough for his purpose he will make no bones to falsefie their sayings cleane contrarie to their meaning as he dealeth with Epiphanius whome he affirmeth to saie That albeit the hoste seemeth to vs of arounde forme and insensible yet whosoeuer beleeueth it not to be the true bodie of Christ is fallen from grace and saluation whereas Epiphanius saieth expresselie it is of a round shape and insensible as concerning power and yet it is the
her not doth better Whereof we inferre that virginitie is more acceptable and meritorious before God then mariage although mariage be holie No saie our adversaries Saint Paull meaneth onelie that he doth better before men and in respect of worldlie commmodities but not before God If you aske him which of his aduersaries doe saie so he is not able to name one for in truth we neuer saide so not thinke so But that which he saith they doe infer vpon the text that virginitie is more meritorious before God the mariage we doe vtterlie denie and we saie furthet that all the Papists in the world shal neuer be able by lawfull and true arguments to infer so much vpon these wordes of the text or to iustifie this kinde of inferring virginitie is better before God ergo it is more meritorious for the antecedent which we graunt doth not prooue the conclusion which we denie Therefore when out of the circumstances of the text he prooueth that virginitie is better in respect of God as a more excellent gift of God he taketh more paines then he needeth For we confesse as much that he that ioyneth not his virgin doth better not onelie in respecte of worldlie commodities or before men but also that shee maie be holie before the Lord in bodie and spirit c. then he that ioyneth her in mariage but that he doth better in respect of merite reward in the life to come as the answerer saith it doth not follow thereof I meane for the merite As for the reward which God bestoweth of his meere mercie doth not prooue anie merite or desert of the partie rewarded For he which vseth the gift of God well by the power and strength which he hath of God shall of Gods goodnesse not misse of his reward but he cannot therebie claime reward of dutie or of merit neither doth the text alleadged by him prooue any such thing Some Eunuchs haue gelded them-selues for the kingdome of heauen therefore they haue deserued the kingdome of heauen therebie Such licentious kinde of inferring will not onelie make poperie to stand if it were lawfull but also might be able to iustifie all heresies that euer were by scripture But bring these illations or inferrings to the iudgement seate of Logicke and they will easilie appeare to be voluntarie glosles and not true expositions or necessarie collections Yet these new doctors saith our answerer doe contemne and 〈◊〉 all authoritie antiquitie wit learning sanctitie of our forefathers and of all men yea of their owne new doctors and masters when they come to be contrarie to any new deuise or later fansie of theirs Because we may not receiue euerie interpretation or opinion of euerie of the fathers he maketh this hideous outcrie against vs. And yet we are alwaies readie to shew and haue often performed the same that in the most and greatest controuersies the auncient Doctors are against them verie cleere on our side Therefore it is an impudent slaunder that we reiect or contemne all authoritie antiquitie witte c. of our forefathers as it is a ridiculous argument that he bringeth of our dissent from our late doctors and masters as he termeth them because we follow not the error of Luther about the reall presence and the vse of Images as for the number of the sacraments and bookes of the Bible we holde with Luther in his last iudgement when he was best instructed in those cases The order of seruice is free for euerie Church to vse diuerselie as maie serue best for edification The popish Churches haue diuers vses of seruice as Sarum Yorke Bangor Hereford in England they had how manie then diuers orders abroade But Caluine he saith is reiected about the head of the Church in England which is a manifest vntrueth for Caluin is euen of the same iudgement concerning the Princes authoritie in causes ouer persons Ecclesiasticall as is euident in his Institutions that we are in England onelie he misliked the terme supreme heade as offensiue though not euill as it was vnderstood of the godlie and that terme is forborne in England for the same cause and another of supreme gouernour vsed which signifyeth as much as was ment by the other when it was rightlie vnderstoode As for the gouernment of the Church in Geneua Caluine did neuer binde all other Churches to vse the same what other pointes are reiected in Beza he hath no leisure to tell vs. But that all the Churches of the Protestants as he calleth vs in Europe do agree in the chiefe and principall articles of Religion the Harmonie of their confessions latelie set forth in print doth giue ful moste sufficient testimonie Ceremonies and for me of externall gouernment were neuer in gods Church accounted necessarie to be all one in euerie particular Church And some men maie haue their priuat opinions sometime perhapes vntrue yet retaining the vnitie of faith in the chiefe grounds and foundation of Religion with them that dissent from them either iustlie or vniustlie Wherefore our answerers finall conclusion doth not followe that Protestants will haue onelie that to be taken for trueth which they last agree vpon and their wordes must be the one ie proofe thereof whereas the worlde can testifye that the holie scripture is our ground and from thence we challenge the best proofe not refusing any other lawful proofes that wil stand with the iudgement of holie scripture where it is most plaine and easie to be vnderstoode euen without anie interpretations The bookes of the scripture we receiue which the Church of God among the Iewes before Christ and the moste auncient Church of the Gentiles since Christ hath receiued and allowed the sense we take euen out of the same bookes and bring no foreine sense vnto them all writtings of men olde and new we examine according to the same praising God for such helpe as we haue by his giftes in them to vnderstand his word yet leauing to them without reproch such things as proceeded from them selues without the warrant of that worde and this haue all true Catholikes alwaies done and no heretike is able to doe albeit he woulde professe neuer so much to doe To the former slaunders our answerer will haue vs adioyne this that our aduersaries saith he notwithstanding all request sute offer or humble petition that we can make will come to no publike disputation or other indifferent and lawfull iudgement but doe persecute imprisone torment and slaughter them which offer the same Touching anie lawful request sute or humble petition made in due manner to them that haue authoritie to graunt I neuer hard of anie onelie the seditious challenge of Campian is all the request sute offer and humble petition that he is able to prooue was euer made by them for anie such matter before the publishing of this answere of his As for them that persecute imprisone torment and slaughter them which offer disputation which he calleth
you are not able to prooue it for how could they suppresse it if it were once printed aud distracted if they haue kept it in being neuer sette forth whie did they not as well in translation resorme so grosse an ouersight But it sufficeth you that anie Papist hath belied Luther for such a testimonie is sufficient euidence with you to con demne him And yet this opinion of Luther that such obstinacie of the wife is a sufficient cause of diuorce is not defended by Master Charke more then by Smideline aud whether Luther did euer retract it or no I know not And albeit he did not yet is it not so grosse as that of the Papistes which you defend as true and allowed by al laws of nature ciuill Canon that he which marrieth a bonde woman vnwittinglie may be diuorced from her When our sauiour Christ acknowledgeth no cause of diuorce detweene persons apt for mariage butonelie adulterie The inconueniences that you alledge of her bodie in bondage her issue bonde whereof the father can not haue the education c. are better auoided by buying the bond-woman of her Lord then by breaking of Christes law so expresselie and peremptorilie sette downe in the Gospell Vnto which saile the Lord maie be compelled by the Christian magistrate But in case he be not vnder a Christian gouernour or the husband not able to pay the price he were better be in bondage him-selfe yea leese his life then so wilfullie to commit adulterie by marrying another The other cause of diuorcement for couetousnes or other greeuous sinne which is spirituall fornication you answer that it was but the saying of one man as though Luther were manie men or the master of the sentences were not as great a man among you as Luther is with vs. Where you conclude out of Thomas Aquine that the knotte of mariage is not dissolued because Lumbardes wordes are demittere eam that is dismisse her from his companie you make a sound arguments for the verie same word he vseth in the case of a bond-woman which you confesse to dissolue the knotte his words are these Si nescitur esse seruilis conditionis liberē potest dimitti If it be not knowne that she was of seruile condition she maie be freelie put awaie And in the 39. distinction he expresseth his minde plainlie in what case the knotte is dissolued and in what case it is not The last foure doctrines you huddle vp together vpon a false pretense that Master Charke doth graunt them as they lie and think them sound inough to stand with the Gospell For touching the first that matrimonie is much more excellens then virginitie Master Charke in deede noteth certaine thinges in respect whereof mariage excelleth virginitie which you can not confute yet refuseth to stand vpon the comparison saying they are both good yet neither good for all but mariage for him that can not conteine and virginitie in some respectes as the Apostle noteth which Luther also doth acknowledge Wherefore seeing the Apostle in some respects preferreth virginitie he were amadde man that would affirme the contrarie But seeing the Apostle in all respectes doth not preferre virginitie he is a foolish wrangler that quarelleth against him that denieth mariage in all respects to be inferior to virginitie For we haue nothing to do with Iouinian Heluidius Basilides or whomesoeuer you can name that was condemned by antiquitie for affirming matrimonie paris esse merits cum virginitate to be of equall dignitie with virginitie in all respectes-neither did Luther euer so affirme but the contrarie as his owne wordes shall testifie for him At quisque inquit suum donum habet alius sic alius verò sic Hîc profitetur 〈◊〉 votum impleri non posse neque velle deum cuique eximium illud impartiri donum Atque hunc textum tu in intimis pectoris tui penetralibus recondas pleraque enim in se complectitur neque minus continentia matrimonium praedicat Nam sicubi coniugium quis cum caelibatu conferat praestantius certè donum est 〈◊〉 Attamen matrimonium itidem Dei donum est inquit hoc loci Paulus vt continentia Mas etiam faeminae praestat attamen aequè vtille opus dei haec est Coram deo enim omnia sunt aequalia quae inter sese alias distant Quicquid is condidit suum eum 〈◊〉 creasorem appellat dominum neque quicquam alio sublimius eum nominat siue magnum siue paruum fuerit Sic idem valet coram illo matrimonium virginitas Nam vtrunque est donum creatura dei tametsi alterum alteri antecellas si quis inter se conferat But euerie one saith he hath his proper gift one man after this manner another man after that Here he professeth that his desire can not be fulfilled and that God will not bestow vpon euerie man that excellent gift And this text lay thou vp in the innermoste closet of thy brest For it comprehendeth manie thinges in it and setteth forth mariage no lese then continencie For if a man shall compare mariage with virginitie certainlie virginitie is the more excellent gifte Neuertheles mariage saith Paule in this place is the gift of God as well as continencie A man also is more excellent then a woman yet is shee the worke of God as well as he for all those thinges are aequall before God which otherwise do differ among them-selues Whatsoeuer he hath made it calleth him the maker the creatour and Lord thereof neither doth anie thing name him more highlie then another thing whether it be great or smale So before him matrimonie and virginitie be of equall value for both is the gift and creature of God albeit the one more excellent then the other if they be compared one with the other These wordes of Luther are plaine inough to shew his opinion of the excellencie of virginitie aboue matrimonie in some respects allthough in regarde that they are both the gifts of God he affirme them to be equall For the giftes of God maie be the one more excellent then the other as he confesseth of virginitie yet is not the one more the gift of God then the other But all this is litle worth you maie saie if that which you bring in next against him be true For seing the auncient writers did write whole bookes in the commendation and preferment of virginirie aboue all other states of life What would they haue said saie you If they had heard the base scurrile and impious wordes of M. Luther de natura statuum inter se as his owne explication is that is of the verie nature of these two states in them selues without respect of abuse or good vse to affirme matrimonium esse velut aurum the state of matrimonie to be as golde and the other state of virginitie and continencie to be vtî stercus ad impietatem promouens like stinking doung promoting to impietie
doth not he ouerthrow of all Christian commmon wealthes Luthers short answere to this is Hoc non de ciuilibus legibus sed de Ecclesiasticis dixi est sententi a Pauli Coll. 2. This I speake not of ciuill lawes but of Ecclesiasticall lawes and it is the sentence of Saint Paul Coll. 2. What foundation now doth he ouerthrow or teach of any Christian common wealth when he speaketh of the freedome of conscience from all constitutions of men These be the great monsters of impiety which cut the sinewes of al vertue do open the high way to all dissolution Wil you neuer be ashamed to slaunder their doctrine which you are not hable to confute But now for the bodelie and sensible conference of Luther with the deuill you wonder with what face Master Charke can denie it we wonder with what mouth you can affirme it That the Tygurines giue testimonie of it is a lie as I haue shewed before And the wholl discourse of Luthers wordes shall make manifest that his confession is onelie of a spirituall fight in minde no bodelie conference as Master Charke answered at the first His wordes in his booke de missa priuata vnctione sacerdotum are these Sed forsitan agnoscatis quà m firmis nitatur columnis vestra causa si in horam incidatis tentationum Eg o coram vobis reuerendis sanctis patribus confessionem faciam date mihi absolutionem bonam quae vobis opto quà m minimum noceat Contigit me semel sub mediam noctem subitò expergefieri Ibi Satan mecum caepit eiusmodi disputationem Audi inquit Luthere doctor per docte nostietiam te quindecim annis celebrasse missas priuatas quotidie Quià si tales missae horrenda essent idololatria c But peraduenture you may acknowledge vpon how sure pillers your cause leaneth if you fall into the howre of tentation I will make my confession before you reuerend holy fathers giue me good absolutition which I wish may hurt you least It happened that once I waked sodainlie about midnight There Satan began this disputation with me Hearken saith he thou verie wel learned Doctor Luther c. thou knowest also that thou hast saide the priuate Masse by the space of 15. yeares almost euerie daie what if such priuate Masses were horrible idolatrie c These words are manifest that Luther speaketh of a spirituall temptation such as euen good men are subiect vnto in which Sathan obiecteth vnto the conscience of men such things wherein they haue offended God moste greeuouslie The atguments that the deuill layeth against him are not so much against the Masse as against Luthers sinne to bring him in dispaire for saying masse being a sinfull man as appeereth by these wordes which he attributeth to the deuill Prome vbi scriptum est quód homo impius incredulus possit assistere altari Christi 〈◊〉 ac conficere infide Ecclesiae vbi iussit ac praecepit hoc deus Bring forth where it is written that an vngodly man an vnbeeleeuer may stand at the altar of Christ and consecrate and make the sacrament in the faith of the Church where hath God bidden or commaunded this For Luther had defended him-selfe and sought to quiet his conscience because he was an annointed priest because he celebrated in the faith of the Church although he was vnworthie in respect of the weakenes of his owne faith the multitude of his sinnes But this you clippe as your note booke serued you which was not of your owne gleaning Agè prome vbi scriptum est vbiiussit aut praecepit hoc Deus Goe to now shew me where the masse is written in scripture where hath God commaunded it and scoffe at the Protestants fashion of disputation and conclude that Luther not beeing able to answere finallie yelded to banish the masse vpon the deuills appointment which is a tale of a tubbe for there is no such conclusion but that Luther by faith in the merites of Christ ouercame this temptation For after his conflict described thus he proceedeth Hîc respondebunt mihi sanctissimi patres hîc ride bunt dicent tune es doctor ille celebris non nosti respondere Diabolo An ignoras Diabolis esse mendacem papè vestro merito vobis gratias ingentes ago pro tam suaui consolatione in re tanta Has tres voculas Diabolus est mendax ignorassem ego 〈◊〉 nisi monuissetis vos eximij theologotati Si papista essem omnium tentationum ruà is quem securum 〈◊〉 Satan negligeres vt ipsos negligit indulgentes suis cupiditatibus c. etiam talis gigas essem contra absentem hostem alacer fortis Sed si vobis sustinendi essentictus Diaboli audiendae disputationes non diu essetis cantilenam de Ecclesia veteri recepto more cantaturi equidem satis video in Dauid reliquis Prophetis qu à m grauiter luctentur ingemiscunt in his certaminibus similibus contra diabolum horribilem impetum eius Et Christus ipse quamuis sine peccato propter nos in quantis lachrimis in quibus angustiis agonizauit in his agonibus contra satanam Vrget enim in immensum corda nec 〈◊〉 niss repulsus verbo dei Et ego planè persuasus sum Emser um Oecolampadium similes his ictibus horribilib quassatio nib subitò extinctos esse Nec n. humanum cor horrer dum hunc ineffabilem impetum nisi deus illi adsit perferre potest Satan enim in 〈◊〉 oculi repente totam mentem terr oribus ac te nebris adobruit si nihil quà m hominem inermem verbo no instructum inuenit quasi digitulo totum 〈◊〉 Verum qui dem hoc est quód mendax sit sed eius mendacia non sunt simplicis artificis sed longè callidiora instructiora ad fallendum quà m humanus captus assequi possit Ipse sic adoritur vt apprehendat aliquam solidam veritatem quae negarinon possit atque eam adeo callidè versutè vrget acuit adeo speciose fucat suum mendacium vt fallat velcautissimos c. vtî cogitatio illa quae Iudae cor percussit vera Tradidi sanguinem iustum hoc Iudasnegare non poteratised hoc erat mendacium ergo est desperandum de gratia Dei Et tamen diabolus hoc mendacium hanc cogitationem tam violenter vrsit vt Iudas eam vincere non possit sed desperaret Proinde bone frater domine papista non mentitur Satan quando accusat aut vrget magnitudinem peccati ibi enim habet duos inconuincibiles graues testes legem dei nostram propriam conscientiam Non possum negare quòdreus summortis damnationis c. Sed ibi mentitur Satan quando vltrà vrget vt desperem de gratia Sicut Cain dicebat maius est peccatum meum c. Et ibi tum opus est in
if default be not in our selfe yet we saie they are sinne of them selues for which we ought to sigh and grone with the Apostle And where you saie we haue no hope of victorie because we sinne though we consent not and thereof make manie wordes in vaine of the excellencie of popish doctrine it is moste vntrue for we haue a most cer taine hope by the grace of god in Iesus Christ to haue deliuerance frō the one victory of the other that to the obtening of the crowne of euerlasting glorie Now are we come to the tenth commaundement which is contrarie to the Iesuites doctrine which you say the Censure out of S. Augustine expoundeth to be meant of consent lib. 1. denupt conc cap. 23. where S. Augustine doth not so expound this cōmaundement thou shalt not lust but sheweth as he doth in other places before noted that it is not fullfilled in this life Next to this you saie it pleaseth Master Charke to put downe foure manifest lies saying As the Papists make of the tenth commaundement two commaundements so this fellow maketh of two seuerall breaches of two diuerse commaundementes but one sinne And both these you saie are slaunders But how both these if they were slaunders should make foure lies I doe not yet see except it be by multiplication Your answere is first that the Catholikes make but one of the tenth commaundement but the question is which is properlie and distinctlie the tenth commaundement Verie well if it be a question and such a question as you conclude not to be defined in your Church you doe ill to make it an argument to conuince him of slaunder For if that opinion be true that maketh but one commaundement against coueting which few papists doe follow and yet many auncient writers doe holde as you confesse then doe the rest make two commaundemetes of that one against coueting Yes Saint Augustine you saie contendeth in diuerse places that these two clauses thou shalt not haue strange Gods and thou shalt not make any grauen Idoll are but one commaundement and therefore that the two other of coueting make two distinct commaundementes That S. Austine liketh that diuision I denie not but that he contendeth for it is vntrue And you your selfe note six auncient writers namely Origen Procopius Clemens Alexandrinus Hesychius S. Ambrose S. Ierome that follow our diuision assigning foure preceptes to the first table and six to the second To which may be added Greg. Nazianzen decalog Mosis carmine Augustine or whoesoeuer was author of those books called quaestiones ex veteri N. T. quaestione 7. Beside the authority of those olde fathers reason is against it For whereas you saie this clause Thou shalt not couet thy neighbours wife is the ninth commaundement and the rest the tenth Moses is against you Exod. 20. placing thou shalt not couet thy neighbours house first and then thou shalt not couet thy neighbours wife which were a confusion if that which is in the second place were the ninth that which is in the first were the tenth beside the transposition that part of the tenth commaundement should be ioyned with the ninth Therefore seeing the same Moses placeth the coueting of the wife Deu. 5. in the first place it is manifest that both those clauses make but one commaundement els should it be vncertaine which is the ninth and which the tenth Againe where you saie it is moste conuenient that the twoe generall internall consentes vnto the two lusts of carnalitie and couetousnes called by Saint Iohn concupiscence of the flesh and concupiscence of the eie should be expresselie and particularlie forbidden by two distinct commaundements I answere that it is more couuenient that concupiscence of all sinnes against the second table should be forbidden in one generall commaundement And it is meruaill how in Saint Iohn you forgotte the pride of life which he ioyneth with the concupiscence of the eies and of the flesh which was as needefull to be forbidden as the other two though you saie the internall temptations against the other commaundement are neither so frequent nor so daungerous as those two Yes verely the temptations to ambition rebellion disobedience malice lying such like are both as frequent and as daungerous as vnto bodelie lust and couetousnes To that you sate they are sufficientlie forbidden by the wordes set downe in the commaundements them-selues it may be answered so are the other two and therefore all lust with consent is forbidden in euerie one of them as lust vnto adulterie in the commaundement prohibiting adulterie desire of reuenge in the commaundement prohibiting murther by our sauiour Christs owne interpretation and authority by like reason ambition or lust of disobedience in the commaundement that biddeth parentes to be honoured couetousnes in that which forbiddeth theft the lust of lying or slaundering in that which forbiddeth false witnes Therefore the commaundement of lust beeing one and general must needes be the tenth and the comaundement of hauing no gods but one the true God the first the commaundement of not making nor worshipping Images the second which are two perfectlie distinct preceptes the one commaunding the true God to be honoured alone the other commaunding the worship of God to be spirituall and forbidding all carnall imaginations of Gods worship as by Images or any other thing of mens deuise wherebie they chaunge the glorie of the immortall God into the shape of a mortall man beastes fouls or any other thing Therefore he that worshippeth Baall as a God breaketh the first commaundement he that worshippeth Iehoua in the calfe that Aaron made or the calues that Ieroboam set vp or by offering incense to the brasen serpent offendeth against the second commaundement This diuision therefore is both most conuenient as that which distinguisheth all good workes and all sinnes by their proper precepts and also necessarie as that which maketh tenne commaundements euerie one perfectlie distinct from the other and that sheweth all men all manner of sinne as well that which is in act as that which is in desire not onelie that which is with consent but euen that also which proceedeth of the corruption of nature and is resisted by the spirit of God Therefore that which you saie vntrulie of the first two braunches is true of the last that they conteine but one thing namelie a prohibition of concupiscence against any of the other five preceptes of the second table But it is a weightie argument that the 70. interpreters doe recite them distinctlie as two commaundementes in their Greeke translation How shall we know that You answere by repeating the verbe twise But that is a slender proofe for the verbe is twise repeated in the Hebrew text and in Deut. 5. once changed In the twoe first commaundements there are foure verbes denied there shalls not be thou shalt not make thou shalt not bow downe thou shalt not serue Yet these two you will haue
a nose of wax is easie to be turned and shaped on euerie side or sort which if it were so must needes be a great fault in the scripture it selfe A hundred positiue lawes and statutes in England are so well penned as all the sophistical heads in christendome cannot finde a starting hole in them by anie peruerse interpretations but thatall they which haue but a meane skill in the lawes will laugh them to scorne And tha I we think so vnreuerently of the holy scriptures giuen by inspiration of god that euerie foolish heretike maie turne them about like a nose of wax but rather that in his said attempt of turning his folly shal be made manifest to al men Pighius saith expressely the scriptures are dumbe iudges as though Godspake not in them and by them vnto vs whose prophane comparison of the holie scriptures with prophane lawes which require Magistrates and iudges to punish the offenders of them euerie Christian man may perceiue to tende to the derogation of the maiesty of them As also euerie childe that hath studied logike but halfe a yeare maie vnderstand his beggerlie petition of the principle when appealing from the iudgement of the scriptures he will be iudged by none but by papists in controuersies and questions that we haue against the papists As for the blacke Gospell and Inkie diuinitie babled by Eccius against the written Gospell If Iesuits can maintaine as Catholike surelie Christians can not heare it without horror of blasphemie If there be no fault or imperfection in the scriptures how saith Pighius that euery man may euidently know without the scriptures in what order the Church is appointed by her author Againe of what moment is the holy scripture if it be not necessarie to decide all doubtes and controuersies in the Church for thus saith Pighius If we receaue the authoritie of the Churches tradition quam si recipimus omnis facilè etiam sine scriptur is inter nos componetur concertatio controuersia cùm de singulis nonfuerit admodum operosum inuenire quid Catholica ab initio Ecclesia senserit Which if we receiue all strife and controuersie betweene vs may easilie be compounded euen without the scriptures Seeing it is no very hard worke to finde out what the Ca tholike Church from the beginning hath thought of euerie question Thus the Ecclesiasticall tradition is set a loft and the holie scriptures excluded as superfluous and vnnecessarie seeing all questions may easilie be decided without them But to giue a better colour to your nose of waxe you saie Saint Ierome doth call the scriptures alledged corruptlie by Marcion and Basilides the diuells Gospell because the Gospell consisteth not in the words of scripture but in the sense But so doth not Christ call the scripture when it was alledged by the deuill neither doth Saint Ierome so call the scripture but the false sense feined by heretikes His wordes are these Grande periculum est in Ecclesia loqui ne fortè interpretatione peruersa de Euangelio Christi hominis fiat Euangelium aut quod peius est Diaboli It is great perill to speake in the Church least perhappes by peruerse interpretation of the Gospell of Christ be made the Gospell of man or that which is worse of the deuill And it is true which he saith The Gospell is not in the wordes but in the sense of the scriptures Yet it is also true that the sense of the scriptures is expressed in those wordes of the scriptures and not included in the Popes breast as the Papists would haue vs thinke that al labour bestowed in seeking the sense of the scriptures is in vaine except we take the interpretation of the Popish Church which sthe iudgement of the Pope as the sure rule to guide vs by But Saint Augustine you saie calleth the scripture the bowe of heretikes Which is not so for he compareth their wresting of the scriptures to the bending of a bowe Ecce inquiunt peccatores tetenderunt arcum credo scriptur as quas illi carnaliter interpretando venenatas inde sententias emittunt Beholde say they the sinners haue bent the bowe the scriptures I beleeue which while they interpret carnallie they send forth poysoned meaninges from them Further you saie Irenaeus compareth it abused by heretikes to a Iewel stamped with the forme of a Dogge or Fox Irenaeus speaketh not of the bodie of the scriptures but of wordes sentences and parables of scripture rent not onelie from their sense but also from their place and patched together with olde wiues fables to make a shew for heresie which is all one as he saith as if a man should breake an excellent Image of a king and when he hath fashioned the peeces beeing pearles or precious stones into the shape of a Fox or Dogge he would yet be so impudent to saie this is that excellent Image of the king which was made by a not able workman This soundeth nothing like the nose of waxe Likewise you saie Gregorie Nazianzen compareth the scripture to a siluer scabberd with a leaden sworde in it The comparison you speake of is in his poemes which I verelie am perswaded that you neuer read but were mocked by your notebooke as many times before For Gregorie compareth not the scriptures as you slaunder him but an hipocrite a man that hath nothing but an externall shew of religion to a leaden sworde in a siluer scabberde his verses are these if you could haue construed them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 To these that you might seeme bountifull though you be a verie begger of your owne reading you adde Tertullian and Vincentius Lirinensis of which the former you saie compareth the scripture to the deceitfull ornaments of harlottes the other to poysoned hearbs couered in the Apothecaries shops with faire titles Wherein you slaun der them both for they compare not the wholl scripture as you doe in your nose of waxe but the hereticall bragges of scripture which as they may abuse a peece for a shew so are they confounded by the wholl when the same is rightlie weighed Therefore the comparisons of these auncient Doctors are no more like to your nose of waxe then your nose of waxe is like to the holie scriptures Neither doth the example of Luther calling the scriptures the booke of heretikes expounding him selfe why he so calleth it namely because it is depraued by heretikes defend the Iesuites which to the deprauation of the scriptures vse that similitude as Luther did not in his albeit he might as well haue forborne that title as his rash iudgement against those whome you call sacramentaries for as the one was vnprofitable so the other was vniust But if the Iesuites saie you had reiected any one booke of the scripture as the Protestantes doe many we might iustlie accuse them It is as great a fault to adde to the worde of God as to take from it The Protestantes reiect no booke
him for neither Saint Paull Saint Cyprian nor the councell of Nice graunted such pardons to such persons and for such causes as he doth therefore he followeth not their example but his owne presumption Yet let vs see how this argument is fortified First the paine prescribed by law he maie release because he is the principall executor of the law But who will allow him anie such principalitie in the Church that is no member of the same Secondlie he maie remit the pennance enioyned by the Priest because he is superiour to all piestes which is nothing but a miserable begging of that which is in controuersie The like is to be said of his changing of penance whereby he challengeth the like authority Although his changing of sharpe pe nance into easie paiment doth bewray what is the end of such permutation money is intended whatsoeuer is pretended Vrbanus the 2. in the councell of Claremounte exhorting men of al nations to the warre of Ierusalem began that release of penance for seruing in that cause which his successours afterward haue vsed as a gaie and gainfull pretense when they were disposed to enrich their coffers and mantaine their priuate quarrels ALLEN The like they do also often to set forward other workes of charitie to the benefit of Gods people as for the relieuing of Hospitals of Churches of high waies and such like Sometimes againe they extende their power which Christ gaue them to edifie his Church and increase religion and deuotion in the people as when thy giue pardon for so manie daies to such as shall receiue the blessed Sacrament faste and praie that heresie maie cease in the Church that the enemies of Christianitie maie not preuaile that infidels Iewes and heretikes maie be conuerted and Schismatikes knit them-selues obedientlie to the fellowship of Chistes folde So doth the Pope for the encrease of zelous deuotion and aduancing Gods honour giue daies of remission or full pardon to such as shall vsuallie haue meditations of Christes passion and death by certaine holie praiers appointed or by visiting places in which there be seene some liuelie sieppes memories and expresse tokens of Christe miraculous workes or his Saintes Thus to helpe vp the dulnesse of praying and seruing God in our daies he geueth grace and pardon to such as shall freauent the Churches at the times of their dedication or on certaine principall Feastes there either to be confessed and receiue the 〈◊〉 sacrament or els to ioyne in praier and deuotion with other the faithful people that thither at those daies haue principall recourse Hereof we haue example not onelie in the storie of the institution of the solemne Feast of Corpus Christi but also in the great generall councell holden at Laterane For this cause also and the like maintenance of holie praier by which the Church of God moste standeth hath he mercifully with singular wisdome giuen a pardon of certaine daies or years to such as should deuoutlie occupie such beades books or praiers in all which things orderlie giuen reuerentlie receiued I see not what can be reprehended of anie but such as are offended with all workes and waies of mercie charitie and deuotion The power and iurisdiction is prooued lawfull the causes why he should exercise his authoritie herein be verie vrgent Gods honour with the peoples commodite exceeding well respected all thinges here do edify and nothing at all destroy all things do stande by good reason nothing can be reprooued either with rea son or good religion FVLKE You tell vs what the Pope doth but neither by what authoritic of the holie scriptures nor by what example of the holie auncient Church He could neuer sit in the Temple of God boasting him-selfe to be God except he had some religious colour to blinde the eies of the world which submitteth vnto his antichiristan power And yet all the world knoweth that monie obtained for hospitalles Churches beades bookes and such baggage all the pardons in a manner that haue beene graunted As for the pretense of setting forward the workes of charitie fasting praing c. is not onelie hypocriticall but also wicked For neither men muste be hired to the workes of charitie and other Christian exercises by pardon of their punishments but exhorted and charged for the loue of God and vpon their duties neither should a sale be made of that which ought to be freelie graunted if the Church had such authoritie For freely saith he you haue receiued therefore freely you ought to giue Therefore though you cannot see in this filthy nundination what is to be reprehended we can see nothing that can be defended where neither the power is proued lawfull nor the causes reasonable nor the end godlie whatsoeuer is pretended nor meanes by the worde of God or example of the Pimitiue Church allowable That not onelie the penance enioyned in the sacrament otherwise by canonicall correction but also such paine as God him selfe prouideth for sinne may be released by the Popes Pardons and that Purgatorie paines may especiallie be preuented by the same remissions THE 7. CHAP. ALLEN BVt now because some may by course of our matter looke that I should declare whether the Popes Pardons may release any whit of that paine which God himselfe putteth the penttent vnto after his sinnes be forgiuen I must somewhat stand hereupon the cause is weightie and much misliked of our aduersaries and some other perchance to that see not so farre into the matter as they should doe before they giue anie iudgement thereof That the gouernours of the Church should remit Canonicall correction and priuse satisfaction with the bonde of penance either enioyned or els which by the lawes spirituall might be enioyned manie will confesse But that their power should reach to the remitting of that paine which Gods hand hath laied vpon the offender of temporall correction that they vnderstand not Truely for this they must be instructed first that the temporall punishment which God taketh on sinners that be penitent though it standeth by the law of nature aud was practized of the laws of nature and was practized of God himselfe before anie mans lawes were made for puuishment of sinnes yet now it riseth prin cipallie vpon lack of punishing of our selues or the accomplishing of such penance as the Church of God prescribeth For if the Church punish her childrens faults by sharpe discipline doubtles it satisficeth Gods righteousnesse and he will not punish bis in id ipsum twise for one fault or if man earnestlie and sufficientlie iudge him-selfe God hath promised by S. Paul that he will not iudge him also that is to saie that he will not correct him with more heauie discipline of this life or the life to come for that signifieth this word iudicare as the Apostle him-selfe doth interpret it Then it followeth that the bond of anie temporall punishment to be inflicted by God him-selfe doth not now binde man otherwise then for the
building But as it was last inuented for none of the auncient Church for a thousand yeares and more euer heard of it so you haue done well to thrust it vnto the last end of your booke And first you beginne with an obiection vpon your owne ground that for answering of Gods iustice there remaineth a temporall paine after sinne remitted But because the obiection is such as you are neuer able to answer so well your principles of popery hang one vpon another you couer the hardest point and will not let it appeare namelie that Gods iustice requireth punishment of the partie him selfe that offended for satisfying his iustice which was not satisfied by the death and obedience of Christ which if it be true then can there be no remission by any other meanes sauing the iustice of God but by the parties owne suffering Yet let vs see how you auoid the obiection io fauourablie set downe for your seife to answer you saie that Gods iustice is otherwise satisfied by the aboundant satisfactiō made by Christ vpon the crosse and by the merites of his saints If this be true then is the other principle false that Gods iustice requireth temporall punishment of the partie for the recompence of Christs satisfaction and saints merites is not the parties owne punishment wherefore as in the obiection you runne from Christes most perfect satisfaction so in the answere you runne from the obiection which is no answer or satisfaction The scripture is plaine that the blood of Christ purgeth vs from all sinne and Christ by one oblation hath made perfect for euer those that are sanctified he hath once entred into the holie place by his owne blood and found eternall redemption The satisfaction for sinne the purging of vnrightcousnes the perfecting of the saints and euerlasting redemption can abide no reseruation of punishment either temporall or eternall in which the iustice of god is throughlie answered by the obedience and suffering of Christ whose stripes hauing healed vs there remaineth no suffering of our part for satisfying of his iustice And you confesse that there is a sufficient value in the suffering of Christ for the taking awaie of all temporall punishment if it be well applied by the Pope So that Christes redemption was but a power of redeeming and not an act of redemption a power depending vpon the will of man to applie according to his pleasure as you were wount to speake and not according to Gods determination and eternal election And so you robbe Christ of the effect of his death passion by which he obteined eternal redemptiō for al gods elect to enrich the pope with a treasure infinit and vnspendable for that word youlent me before which he might bestow and dispense at his pleasure But let vs a litle enter into your storehouse see what tresure there is and how you came by it First you tell vs of the infinite abilitie and the inestimable valew of euerie drop of Christes bloode c. to satisfie all debt due for all sinne and al paine for the same and yet you alow to the act and effect of his bloodie sacrifice the value but of halfe a drop denying the same to haue satisfied Gods iustice for temporall paine all the rest you claime for the treasure of the Popish Church which dreame was neuer hard of before the Iubilie graunted by Boneface the 8. in the glosse wherof it was first deuised where it is saied that pardons are founded vpon the merits of Christ and taken out of it Passio namque Christi excessiua fuit vnde excessus vocatur in Luca vbi dicitur quod in transfiguratione Christi apparuerunt Moses Elias cùm eo dicebans excessum quem completurus erat in Ierusalem vnica enim guita sanguinis tam preciost suffecisset pro redemptione totiu mundi Nam propter coniunctionem humanitatis cùm diuinitate 〈◊〉 passio Christi perpessa pro redemptione nostra habebat precium infinitum Noluit autem Christus quod excessus isie frustra fuisset quod de nihilo nobis 〈◊〉 sed volait quod esset Thesaurus Ecclesiae per suum vicarium Ro pontificem pro fidelibus loco tempore dispensandus dispensatur autem cum eis indulgentiae conceduntur For the passion of Christ was excessiue whereof also in Saint Luke it is called an excesse where it is said that in the transfiguration of Christ appeered Moses and Elias with him and they spake of the excesse which he should fullfil at Ierusalem For one drop of so precious blood might haue sufficed for the redemption of the wholl worlde For because of the coniunction of the humanity with the diuinitie neuer so small a suffering of Christ suffered for our redemption had an infinit price But Christ would not that this excesse should be in vaine and that it should serve vs for nothing but he would that it should be the treasure of the Church to be bestowed by his vicar the Bishop of Rome in time and place for the faithfull and it is bestowed when pardons are graunted to thē Marke vpon what text this treasure is grounded and how clarkely it is expounded Moses and Elias talked with Christ of his departure out of this life which he should finish at Ierusalem this departure being termed in the Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the Latine excessum this Doctor interpreteth to be an excesse or superfluitie of the passion of Christ the ouerplus whereof lest it should be in vaine and serue for nothing is made the treasure of the Church to be dispensed by the pope But who wil graunt such excesse or superfluitie of the passion of Christ as you imagine or that neuer so small a suffering of Christ had beene sufficient for the redemption of the wholl worlde which if it were graunted seeing Christ from his infancie snffered many things for vs euerie one of them might haue beene our redemption and so the sacrifice of Christs death was vnnecessarie for our redemption So that his blood shed in his circumcision and much more in his scourging crowning with thorne had bin infinitely more thē enough although he had not suffered death and shed his blood on the crosse Againe as it doth moste excellentlie set forth the iustice and mercie of God to the euerlasting comfort of the faithfull that Christ by his obedience and suffering did moste perfectlie satisfie the one and moste plentifullie purchase the other to the eternall redemption and euerlasting felicitie of all Gods elect so it is against the iustice of god that he should require that his sonne should suffer infinitlie more then was needeful to answere his iustice work a perfect redēption as this glossary dreame of the Popish Churches treasure doth imagine Neither doth the argument of the coniunction of the humanitie with the diuinitie prooue anie such matter But if that were graunted by what scripture is the infinite ouerplus made a treasure of