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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A63876 Animadversions upon a late pamphlet entituled The naked truth, or, The true state of the primitive church Turner, Francis, 1638?-1700. 1676 (1676) Wing T3275; ESTC R15960 53,553 71

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and that at Paris and the British Bishops declar'd themselves openly against it And Charles the Great himself wrote against it Whilst this exact Correspondence was among all the Bishops of the Catholique Church and in every Diocese between the Bishop and his Clergy and all his Flock then as one of the Fathers glories If any man askt the way to the Catholique Church no Heretique had the face to shew him the way to his particular Church as if that were the Cotholique And thus although the Body of the Clergy be a thousand times greater as this Author observes then any Council and for this very reason for their unmanageable numbers cannot be convened in one place nor their Suffrages gathered yet 't is observable that the Universality or whole Fraternity of Christians that were in the Apostles Fellowship or Communion had honourable mention made of them and of their concurrence in the Letter of Decision from that first Apostolical Council in the Acts of the Apostles And so the Legates of Princes and several Learned Priests and Deacons have been Assessors to General Councils but no Voters there for that were endless consentiendo subscripsere that is subscribed their assent and consent therefore our Author is not to think it a Monopoly of ours though the word Church be sometimes used and taken for the Clergy only for as I shew'd before there can be no sheep without Shepherds so 't is an equal absurdity to imagine that the Shepherds should be preserved without their sheep But if he will grant any thing at all by way of deference to the Churche's Judgment he must not talk to us of the whole Body nor of his thousands and thousand thousands for fear of falling into the new oral-Tradition way that rare invention of learning what is the Faith by sifting and finding out if we can what was held at all times and in all places by all the Midwives and the Dry-Nurses and the Common People I come now to his last pretence against the Churche's Authority in General Councils The Prejudices they that should sit in Council would bring along with them and then who can doubt but they would avow that in the Council which they all taught in their Churches This again is a piece of my Author 's unthought of Popery for the Papists are not able to endure Councils free and truly General which never fail'd to swinge their Popes and their Popery too that is the Quintescence of it the Popes Supremacy as no doubt they would condemn many other of their Doctrines and Practices but that as there have been no such Councils of later Ages so indeed there was no such Church of Rome in former Ages when there were such Councils and the Council of Trent has made their Church so quite another thing that we may well retort them their own Question Where was your Church before Luther Now ask them for any Decree of a General Council for praying to Saints or worshipping Images or the like if we reject the Council of Trent as we would do the Assembly of Divines at Westminster they reply the visibly major part of the Church both East and West have introduced it and as our Author expresses himself in another Instance They all have taught it in their Churches therefore if they met in Council who can doubt but they would avow it I desire to remind these over-hasty Opiniators of that well known and remarkable story concerning Paphnutius at the Sacred Oecumenical Council of Nice when the Question was debated earnestly there Whether married Priests should be separated from their wives or no and when the Major part of Bishops inclin'd to the wrong side even to forbid them cohabiting any longer the great Paphnutius stood up and set them right proving the ancient Tradition or Custom of the Church to the contrary And with one Speech he turn'd the whole Council for it is one thing to strike at random as commonly Polemical Authors do or to oppose those passages in their Adversaries books which are ready to fall of themselves and to pass by those which urge and press them harder and quite another thing to keep one another to a point till it comes to an issue upon the whole affair But this can hardly be when two Controvertists are as far distant from each other in place as they are in opinion But if sober good and learned men were conven'd and met prepared with study not for a vain wrangle or victory but for a mature deliberation to give such an account of their Belief that all might end in some fixt determination after full conviction If Praesidents and Moderators were design'd with one to do the office of a Prolocutor or Speaker to see that all might be done orderly and proceed in strict and punctual form of Argument a Method which this Author so often declares against that he will not be this Prolocutor If the Ratiocinators on both sides might have daies given them to recal any thing that slipt inconsiderately from them that there might be no lying at the catch as they say If such a Conference as this were protracted from time to time till all were ripen'd for an issue If there were ready at hand all books that would be of use Fathers especially and Former Councils and above all the Holy Bible placed upon its Throne as it was the custom to place it in Ancient Councils If I durst hope to see but such ● Council as this then I would hope to see the Church restor'd to all her Ancient splendor and Serene glory For I will but appeal to this Author if we may compare those great things with our lesser affairs if he has ever done any exercise at Divinity-Disputations in an University what a vast difference there is between sitting in ones study and writing such Pamphlets as his and mine and defending in the School a material Question in Theology where one stands a Respondent enclosed within the compass of his Pew as Popilius the Roman Embassador to King Antiochus made a circle with his wand about that Prince and bid him give him a determinate answer before he went out of it Which puts me in mind of a certain Pope's reply and it was a very shrewd one when he was importun'd to call the Council of Trent he put them off a great while with this Answer that he would not fight with a Cat in a Cupbord meaning he was loth to contend with all the Praelacy shut up together for then he knew they would flie in his face and so they did in the faces of his Successors notwithstanding all their Artifices whereas he could deal well enough with them severally and at a distance And it is no wonder at all if the Bishops of the Duffusive Church are fain to suffer and groan under many of the Papal Abuses which they might easily remedy and reform if they were protected as they ought to be by all Christian Kings
industry acquir'd much knowledg in natural Philosophy Antiquity History and subtle Logick or Sophistry were very unwilling to abandon quite these their long studied and dearly beloved Sciences falsly so called and therefore translated them into Christianity applying their School-terms Distinctions Syllogisms c. to Divine matters intending perchance through indiscreet Zeal to illustrate and imbellish Christian knowledg with such Artificial forms and figures but rather defaced and spoiled it Kindly and learnedly spoken of Learning in general and Reverently spoken of the Primitive Doctors and Fathers Why he could hardly have declared himself with greater animosity and severity against Greg. de Valentia or Suarez or some other of the late Popish Schoolmen As for the Fathers that they were no defacers or spoilers of Christianity 't is defence enough for them if I alledge in their behalf the Testimony of One that was none of their greatest Champions even Mr. Dallé himself who in that very book which he was so many years collecting and writing on purpose to expose them for all their little failings yet he confesses and contends that they were guilty of no Errors amounting to Haeresies in their Controversies of Faith And by this Author 's good leave the Fathers were not the men that corrupted our Christianity through Philosophy but if any have done so it is rather that sort of men the Popish Schoolmen who pardon the expression Aristoteliz'd the Fathers As for the elder Schoolmen their design was noble to draw the whole Scheme of Divinity into such order and method that a Divine might sit and see as it were his whole world of Matter before him and to arm him at all points where he might possibly be attaqu'd they set themselves to go into the bowels of all Controversies herein they have often exceeded in beating matters too thin and I say not all their Armour was of Proof but that which is firm and good as a great deal of it is ought not to be thrown away because it is too heavy for some mens shoulders That unlucky Pantaenus sett up Disputing if you 'l take our Author's word for it in a School of Alexandria though others verily believe that one St. Paul before him disputed daily for the space of two years in the School of one Tyrannus And some differ from this Author's Opinion that the damnable Haeresie of the Arrians sprang from the School of Pantaenus they rather think and our Ecclesiastical Historians say that Arrius's spleen had never wrought so furiously against the Church but only for a disappointment he received in his aspiring expectations of some great Bishoprick But we must needs look back to the second and third pages to see how he justifies all this by alledging proving with a great deal ado from Reason and Scripture that No man should be forc't to Believe for No man can be forc'd to Believe As for example says he If you hold a clear printed book with a clear candle to a man of clear eyes and able to read he will certainly read But if the print be not clear or the candle or his sight not clear or he not learned to read Can your force make him read and just so it is with our Understanding which is the eye of our Soul and a Demonstration being as a Candle to give light If then your Demonstration or Deduction or his Understanding be not clear or he not Learned You may with a Club dash out his brains but never clear them It were easie to confound his Similitude by shewing the disproportion between the parts of it For he brings the sense of Seeing which is linkt and ty'd to the dull dimensions of a Body and the studied acquir'd faculty of Reading which is the other term on the one side I say he brings these into comparison with our Understanding which be calls the Eye of our Soul and a Demonstration which he makes the candle to give it light But if it be as he supposes here a demonstration indeed about things absolutely necessary for us to know it must of necessity so irresistibly dart its beams into the mind of any that is not born without any brains to let them in as there shall need no force to clear them But 't is more to my purpose to retort his Similitude thus Suppose you held a clear printed book with a clear candle to a man of clear eyes and suppose the man shuts his eyes and suppose all men that look upon him attentively see that he shuts his eyes as that 's a thing may be seen or which is all one that he stops his ears as some that will not so much as enter our Church-doors refusing to hear the voice of the Charmer charm he never so wisely and suppose this book thus held to him be the Word of God it self Then since the same Word tells us that some may be damn'd for shutting their eyes upon it Certainly the Magistrate may and ought to force him not to wink so hard but to open his eyes and sure all this may be done without dashing out his brains with a Club and then indeed it will follow that he will certainly read but not otherwise The Jews in Rome are constrain'd once a week to hear a Christian Sermon The Pope indeed cannot make the Jews Believe but he can make them hear unless they close up their Ears with wool or purposely send their Wits a wool-gathering as the Country phrase is which would be a fault in their Wills to be punish't if it could be prov'd Whereas this Author would ascribe all to mens want of common Understanding or want of Discerning ability in the matters now in question which are the great matters of Faith But God is wanting to no man in Necessaries and the Reason which helps every man to see these Truths at least when they are shew'd and pointed out to him is a vulgar a popular thing But sure this Author imagines there are a world of Idiots that he may not be forc'd to admit any mans hypocrisie wilfulness to be gross palpable Thus he concludes Our force may make him blinder but never see clearer may make him an hypocrite no true Convert No! by this Author's favour he that shuts his eyes yet pretends to see clearly is an hypocrite already and we that would oblige him to open his eyes whether he will or no do not go the way to make him an Hypocrite but a true Convert from his sinful Hypocrisie But he still eagerly pursues his ill-chosen Principle in mistaken charity If a man do not see a thing clearly contain'd there i. e. in Scripture you cannot force either his Sight or his Faith p. 4. He had said before p. 3 He then that believes the Scripture cannot but believe what you clearly demonstrate from Scripture if he hath clear brains if he have not your force may puzzle and puddle his brains more by the passion of Anger and Hatred c.