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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
book_n	age_n	yield_v	youth_n	13	3	7.8974	4	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A11532	A conference betvvixt a mother a devout recusant, and her sonne a zealous protestant seeking by humble and dutifull satisfaction to winne her vnto the trueth, and publike worship of god established nowe in England. Gathered by him whose hearts desire is, that all may come to the knowledge of God, and be saued.; Conference betwixt a mother a devout recusant, and her sonne a zealous protestant.	Savage, Francis, d. 1638.	1600 (1600)	STC 21781; ESTC S106433	62,438	140

boast of disputation or say they haue prospered by it for we neede not to feare them God be blessed nor they to bragge of any winning There neuer wanted yet neither euer shall want both learned and vnlearned on our side whose spirits they shall not be able to resist writing preaching disputing they are the Gospels weapons and waies to build by Popery must take sōe other course as yet in all times they haue done which holde that plough O that for further proofe of this point mē would be content without preiudice to read the Acts monuments of this our natiue countrie and English Church where we liue marking with a minde desirous of trueth what answers haue beene made by simple women maides and girles vnto great Bishops and Doctoures in causes of religion faith to the great astonishment of their aduersaries the high glorie of God seene in their weaknesse so strengthened by him But nothig can bee more grieuous to that Church then to graunt leaue to doe this which surely bewrayeth they are afraide Hence come their lies and slaunders invented against that book which would full soone be discried of vs woulde we reade it If any haue beene in Westminster ball at tharraignment of a misdoer we willingly heare him a whole day to tell vs the manner of it what was obiected what answered what replyed and what concluded yet we will not read with our owne eies hauing it so notably penned for vs the conventings of holy Christian men and women before their iudges for matter of faith and saluation We wil talke of disputation disputations and ô that men might be allowed to speake freely without daunger of lawe what they are able and when the time was for theirs to speake what they would or coulde and wee stoode at the barre in bolts and yron to answere their obiections and profound learning we will not nowe reade what was then done said on both sides Surely I will say of that booke what I wish tried that after the ground of holy scriptures it will yeelde the greatest contentment Men shall see men women shall see women age shall see age and youth youth brought to the triall howe they answered howe they suffered howe flesh startled howe the spirit conquered and in a worde howe God shewed his mercie and power infinite waies If we finde they speake well we may embrace it if otherwise leaue it The Lord hath giuen vs wisdome and reason and of his grace also I trust to be able to discerne if we would reade O why should our enemies hoodwincke vs so that we must neuer see but with their eies If the charge of this book be to much for one an whole parish might ioyne together and vse it by turners as leisure serued M. Sonne I see you are ready for eueuery way and therefore hauing gone thus farre in triall of what you could say and now being come to our iourneys ende I will goe no further with you at this time but reserue the particular pointes of controuersie till wee haue some fitte leisure and opportunity againe S. Good Mother when and howe you please But nowe ere we part I beseech you let me speake something to you with out offence I will not say much M. Speake on you shall doe more Then as yet you haue done if you any way offend me S. 〈◊〉 religious ●●ite or a ver●ous child to 〈◊〉 mother My suite is then most deare mother with a melting heart of an humble childe that you would vouchsafe to thinke of that which hath nowe beene spoken as also of this feare full course which you haue to long liked of in not comming to Church not receiuing the sacrament not hearing Gods word not obeying the lawes of your dread and gratious Soueraigne and of your natiue countrie It woundeth your credit and estimation with the best it hurteth my father daunteth your children blemisheth your house and wrongeth your friendes both neare deare most grieuously But ô father I say againe my heart bursteth and bleedeth to see howe he is eclipsed by it in comparison of others to whome he is no way inferiour either in birth in liuing in wisdome and experience or in any gift in body or minde neither hath his countrie that good from him or he that good from his countrie that might be had if you were reformed For how may he be thought so fit to rule others abroad that cannot be obeied of his owne at home His children therefore want him his friends want him his seruants want him yea he himselfe wanteth himselfe many times to his griefe Other things also I could name that better may be conceiued in your tender loue towardes him then by me expressed at this time O mother pardon your owne flesh in speaking thus boldly to you and knowe that it is but a part of your selfe that speaketh to your selfe in tender louect dutie When first my father matched with you he hoped of strēgth countenance euery way to be increased to him both by your selfe and your excellent qualities wherewith God hath indued you and by your friendes and house to whome by this marriage he should be vnited not of any abashment and abatement in al these to him and his poore children the pledges of loue betwixt you And thus might it be it you would but alas thus is it not because hitherto you would not A fewe false charmers haue sunke deeper into your heart with their deceits then all your best friendes can with their faithful aduertisements And what is this els in you and others of your perswasion but that which euer hath bin done by the olde serpent the head and guide of these charmers In the Acts of the Apostles we read that the Iewes hating deadly the trueth of the Gospell preached by the Apostles and desirous to vexe them for it deuised this as the best means to stirre vp certaine honest and devout women against them which women should vvork with their friendes to expell such preachers from amongest them Nowe why women but because Satan hath euer had his aduātage against this weake vessell why devout women but becavse a religious minde meaning well yet wāting knowledge is both quicklyer deceiued with shewe of religion and hottelier pursueth what it once beginneth doing more hurt in that false deuotion then many others not so well thought of And why honourable women but that might being added to blinde zeale both by power and example Satans cause might goe forwarde These charmers saith the Apostle againe shall still be creeping into houses lead captiue simple women By which often repeated name of women in the scripture all good women are effectually warned to beware Were there cause for you or any others thus to doe it no way could stand with religion to diswade you and in my selfe to you Mother it should be a double sinne because I am yours and aboue all wordly fauours ought to wish your eternall

so soone but I will enioyne you to speake plaine and to tell me in earnest what you meant by safety S. I beseech you good mother let me goe no further in this matter my comming home to see you would doe me litle good if through my folly and vnapt speech I should procure your mislike M. I tell you againe it shall not bee so and therefore neither stand with me any longer nor feare but tell me your meaning S. Surely vpon your kind promise of pardon I confesse I meant safetie from mis-instruction in religion whilest I was young and easy to be led by those whome I reuerenced M. Ah sir nowe you deale plainely with me indeede and I see as plainely the fruites of your vniuersity companie and of your fathers care euen to make a conceited young man of you before you haue ripenesse of yeares to discerne in matters of such weight as religion is S. Good mother for mine vniuersitie companie my fathers most louing care I blesse God and thanke them both as I am bound neither shall you by gods grace finde me conceyted o● head strong aboue my true knowledge mine harty praier is for humility and against pride M. Sonne it is well said and so praying assure your selfe god will heare your request and grant your desire but yet for your knowledge in diuinity I hope it is not so great but that a poore woman that hath neithr Logicke nor Rhetorick yet a little latine may argue the case with you and aske you of your newe doctrine that I see hath gotten some fauour in your eies howe you dare take liking of it and rest vpon it since by all truely learned it hath beene called and still is reputed and helde for very feareful and damnable heresie Alas poore boy if thou shouldst miscarrie thy father should answer God for thee and what a griefe it is to me to thinke either of the one or the other let my teares testifie S. Deare mother quiet your selfe and thinke of neither for by Gods grace there shall be no cause M. No cause when now being but a youth in comparison you are as full of heresie as an egge is full of meate and so like to tast either euer or long of that liquour that first hath bene powred into you S. You are tolde it is heresie by those that are not truely learned as you tearme them but ignorant and so lead you and others awry with them but god is able in his good time to let you see it is trueth and no heresie M. That should be a great chaunge sonne as I thinke and because I could as willingly heare you as any and you seme to thinke the matter plain I pray you let me heare what you can say and what our new masters haue taught you S. Your firme and feruent loue to me deare mother giues me encouragement to speake boldly vnto you what I am able yet within tearmes of duty and reuerence euer due vnto you but if you will charge me to speake any more double againe vnto me your comfortable promise of pardon in all things for my hart trembleth for feare to offend you any waies M. Sonne I doe double it and assuredly promise it therefore be not afraid your respectiue affection to me I note it shall not hurt you S. My answere then good mother as neere as either memory or my note booke which I haue also about me will serue shall be the verie wordes of such worthy men as haue written on our side that therby both the want of authoritie which is in my youth may be supplied with their credit and the profit of reading our bookes which papists make so dangerous better obserued by as many as are not desperatly sicke of rebellion and contumacy against the Lord. First therefore touching the name of heresie Heresie which euen now you mentioned and I know you often heare out of their mouthes who resort vnto you thus hath it beene answered on our side many a time and often As the accusation is bitter and grievous yea euen such as the old father S. Ierome saith No man ought to be patient no not in the suspit ō thereof so is it not new or straunge to haue gods truth slandered wi●h this name and therfore it is a good caueat not to be carried away with the name till we haue well examined the matter and found it to agree with the name and rightly to be so called which that we may do we must knowe that for iust proofe of heresie two things are neccessarily required first that it be an Errour in matter of Christian faith secondly that it be stoutly and obstinatly maintained otherwise an errour in Gods truth without obstinate maintenance is not an heresie S. Austen saith therefore Errare possum haereticus esse non possum In an errour I may be but an heretique I cannot be meaning because he intended not obstinately to maintaine an errour Whervnto is agreeable that good saying of S. Hilary Illis in eo quod nesciunt potest adhuc in tuto ●sse salus sicredant ●●lar de Trin. 6. tibi verò iam omnia ad salutem clausa sunt qui negas quod iam ignorare non potes They for as much as they knovve not the truth may haue their salvation in fafety if aftervvard they beleeue but all hope of health is shut vp from thee forasmuch as thou deniest that thing vvhich thou canst not choose but knowe See howe daungerous wilfull and obstinate maintenance of an error is but neither of these two points will be found in vs and therefore farre are wee from iustly deseruing the name of heretiques or our true faith the name of heresie This is an olde practise of Satan to deale thus with Gods trueth and the professours thereof S. Paul was called before the iudges to make answer to a matter of heresie as you may read to your great cōtentment in the Acts of the Apostles and he answered Act. 24. that indeede according to that way which they called heresie he worshipped the God of his fathers But for all their calling and bawling it was far from beeing so because he beleeued all things which were written in the law the Prophets and for that his manner of worshippe was wholly agreeable to the scriptures which no heresie can be Christ our deare Sauiour for no other cause was called a Samaritane but onely for that he was thought to haue fallen to a certaine newe religion and to be the author of a new sect in Apologe● Tertullian witnesseth that in his time euen this very religion which wee now professe was called a sect and heresie that thereby Princes eares might be stopped from hearing any thing spokē or written in defence of the Christians Eusebius doth the like 4. c. 18. saying that the religion of Christ was called impiorum Christian orum Haeresis The heresie of the wicked Christians Epist ad

this father that I named vnto you saith they wrot that which they deliuered and they wrote it by the will of God as not trusting tradition vnwritten and they wrote it to be for euer the ground of our faith noting that vnwritten tradition may not be the ground because it is vncertain and full of imperfection as I could shewe you if we were to speake of that matter Therefore seeing this which is written is certainly and assuredly that which they deliuered and we hold nothing but that which is agreeable to this which is written you see it is most plaine that we holde nothing but that which the Apostles themselues deliuered and so our faith the old faith which was from the beginning and first M. Surely if you holde nothing but that which is written it is certaine that that which was written was deliuered by the Apostles and so it followeth that you hold nothing but that which was deliuered by the Apostles and Prophets and therfore your faith olde indeede and not to be reiected And for tradition although we may be told that this and that was deliuered by the Apostles and their successours and so by them to theirs againe to this day yet I must needes confesse that is not so manifest and plaine as which is written neither doth it yeeld such contentment to my conscience But I can not tell what to say it is a sure and steadfast way to trust to that which is written rather then to that which is reported and yet I am loath ●o offend you shal giue me leaue to pause think more of it S. Yea deere Mother and with the hart of a dutifull child I say the father of our Lord Iesus Christ lighten the eyes of your vnderstanding in all things to the glory of his great name and your eternall comfort but be you assured in this that we hold nothing as needfull to our saluation but that which is written in expresse wordes or by sure and plaine collection and therefore make the consequence as the Lord shall direct you M. Howe then commeth it to passe that your religion is still called new new S. Even as I told you before it is one of Satans trickes to discredit trueth and hath in all times beene vsed of him But as then your selfe collected by that which I alleadged that it is not safe to be lead by tearmes and names without due considering howe iustly and truely they are giuen so I beseech you do here again and be not mooued with the name for questionles there can nothing be more spitefully spoken against the religion of God then to accuse it of noueltie as a matter lately found out For as there can be no change in God himselfe so ought there be no change in his religion Yet still I say Satan hath taken this course euen from the beginning to call trueth newe which indeede is not onely of greatest antiquitie but also frō euerlasting That vngratious blood thirstie Haman when he sought to procure the king Assuerus his dspleasure against the Iewes vsed this slaunder against them of noveltie telling the king that he had in his domion a kinde of people that vsed certaine newe lawes of their own c. Act. 1● Whē Paul also began first to preach and expound the Gospel at Athens he was called a tidings-bringer of new Gods that is of a newe religion for said the Athenians may we not knowe of thee what newe doctrine this is Origen again telleth vs of Celsus that when he wrot of set purpofe against Christ to the ende he might scornefully scosse at the gospell he accused it of noueltie and said Orig. con●a C●lsum vvhat hath God after so many ages now at last bethought himselfe whose vile blasphemies that auncient father in his bookes written against him answereth Eusebius also saith that the Christian religion from the beginnnig for verie spite was called new and straunge Euseb l. 1 c. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Sentence was giuen of condemnation that S. Audrewe should be crucified for teaching and enterprising a newe sect and taking away the religion of their Gods Shall we then bee mooued with this tearme and carried away with this name No God forbid These examples are a faire warning for vs to take heede of that lightnesse and rashnesse Let the deuil rage against trueth with what names God shall suffer him and his members yet this shall euer stand that the doctrine of the Church is elder then any Idolatrie or superstition of the Gentiles that the doctrine of the Gospell was preached in Paradise by God himselfe saying The seede of the vvoman shall bruise the serpent● head That the writings of Moses are elder the any writings of the Gentiles the doctrine of the Apostles elder then Popery or any other heresie and that we at this day hold nothing as I haue often said but what appeareth out of the Apostles owne writings alowed both by vs and our aduersaries to be their vvritinges to be their ovvne doctrine deliuered to the Church to be beleeued and for men and vvomen to be saued by M. Surely I see still it is not safe to be carried away vvith names and to beleeue all to be nevve vvhich is called so or all olde vvhich is named olde for so vve may be deceiued But yet in shevve of the vvorlde ours hath had a longer continuance then yours S. I must needes here once againe remember you what I meane by your religion to wit those pointes of doctrine onely wherein you differ from vs. And then I answer first that your religion euen in shewe of the world hath not had a longer continuance then ours especially for the principall points whereon wee stand as namely 1. the articles of our Creede which is a briefe and summe of catholik faith as Athanasius plainely witnesseth Symbol Athanas Haee est fides Catholica and the Councell of Trent confesseth 1. the acknowledgment of gods diuine law and the worshipping of god according to that law 3. the doctrine of repentance frō dead workes and of faith in Iesus Christ for the remission of sinne 4 the doctrine of the Sacraments Baptisme and the Lords supper which are the fundamentall points of out faith and religion and the rocke whereon we build our soules and Church and without controuersie of greater antiquity then those points of doctrine which we call popery Besides I answer although your religion in shew of the world were more ancient then ours yet that ought to be no disparagement to ours or aduācemēt to yours for god afflicteth his church as pleaseth him maketh vs see that it is like the moone whervnto it is compared now growing now ful now waining we may not mesure truth by worldly coūtenāce but by that rule which neuer faileth the word of God and if our faith be that which there is taught warrāted the you haue heard which is the old true Catholik faith