Selected quad for the lemma: book_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
book_n	admit_v	doctrine_n	great_a	52	3	2.1295	3	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A02200	M. Some laid open in his coulers VVherein the indifferent reader may easily see, hovve vvretchedly and loosely he hath handeled the cause against M. Penri. Done by an Oxford man, to his friend in Cambridge.	Throckmorton, Job, 1545-1601.; Greenwood, John, d. 1593, attributed name.; Penry, John, 1559-1593, attributed name.	1589 (1589)	STC 12342; ESTC S118462	88,170	130

midwife rebaptizing be not admitted For when it is done according to the forme of the questions set downe in the booke if it shoulde be condemned as no baptisme it would in th'opinion of many learned draw some error of doctrine and inferre greater inconuenience then in any Church may be borne that is an infinite number which neuer had other baptisme should nowe be rebaptized and all those of yeares of discretion that were dead and were onely so baptised depart without the seale of Gods promise in the Sacrament The learned doe right wel knowe how the primitiue Church and the learned fathers that liued therein shunned rebaptization though the former baptisme were ministred either by lay persons or children Therefore the booke prouiding only for the remedy thereof ought not to be condemned Thus far my good L. of Winchester The summe whereof is this That the booke of common praier condemneth the baptisme of midwiues and yet admitteth no other baptisme for feare of rebaptization And why then should her Maiestie be brought back againe to baptisme when such as in our owne judgments were neuer baptized in deede are notwithstanding let alone without any farther addition or supply of the sacrament and yet as I saide before not barred from the communion for all that Therefore presuppose nowe a man should tell M. Some plainly that in the popish Church there is noe true baptisme what would he inferre vpon that marry that many thousands are at this day vnbaptised what then Whie then they ought to be brought back againe to baptisme Nay soft by his fauor I deny that for that you see is flatly ouerthrown by the judgment and practise of the Church of England and therefore it becommeth both M. Some and me to sit downe by it with reuerence So that if my L. of Cant. shoulde nowe be baptized by a woman as being so long agoe who dare take his oath to the contary And my L. of Winchester by a popish shaueling what reason is it that my L. of Winchester should be washed a newe seeing it is a ruled case that my L. of Cant. must not And yet it may be for the true substance of Baptisme they may well goe together in one ballance and neuer a barrel better hearring But it may be you will altogether condemne this poore judgment of the Bishops as manifestly bewraiing very grosse palpable ignorance wherin though I should not dissent from you yet in as much as he is in place of on of the graue Patriarches of our church there is noe reason but that his very credite countenance if there were nothing els should in this case be sufficient to crushe in peeces a better mans judgement then M. Somes Beside that he is one of our ordinaries you knowe and the statute saieth as I take it that in matter of doubt or scruple we must alwaies relie vpon the sence and interpretation of our ordinary howsoeuer it be I hope you wil beare me witnesse that by this meanes both my propositions are as substantially proued as a man would wish the deane of Sarum being author of th'one and my L. of Winchester in a sort confirming th'other And this I tell you before hand therefore looke to it and say you had warning that if I catche M. Some once in that veine that he wil make no boanes to reiect and set light by such men as these th'one a deane th'other a Bishop and both pillers of our Church I will certainly in my next letter giue M. Penri leaue to deny Caluin if he haue but the bare trueth on his side and you cannot say nowe but you haue had warning wherein yet by your fauor your D. case must needs be the harder in that he cannot wel denie any of these reuerent men but he must withal be forced inclusiue to giue a foule checke to our Church and State Which rather then Gosser Bridges would doe I knowe him so well that I presume he would rather in reuerence denie S. Paul or any of the 12. Apostles and what a sound harted subiect is that In deede I must needs say thus much for him if he would wish me in my graue that when he doth confute S. Paul he doeth it lightly with as much reuerence as ever I heard or read of in my life wel here againe is offered me occasion to borrowe an other peece of copia rimarum out of M. Deane of Salisburies buttery booke and to come vpon M. Some once more with a dutch figure or two in this extrauagant manner Yea my learned brother are you good at that Is the winde in that doore Are you nowe come to that height of conceite in your selfe as not to feare openly to controle a whol Church or state Fye Fye brother either vnsay that again or farewell all brotherhood c. But I wil not blot any more paper with such ware as this there is enough of it to be had in the west Country if a man could light on it only you may imagine if M. Penri should haue thus crossed and encountered the doings of our Church and State what a heauie sentence should haue passed vpon him then I warrant you the streets would haue rong of that Proude scismatical Anabaptist which had so troubled heuen church common wealth c. And thus you see the ginnes that are so purposely set for an other may somtimes ensnare the fouler himselfe As to that greate scule rolle of errors and absurdities charged with such an imperiall Maiestie vppon the poore Welch mans head I knowe 〈◊〉 well what to say only if I had bene of Councel withal at the beginning th'enrollement shoulde haue bene made in parchment and not in paper For nowe being but bare paper see the ill luck of it the Mice haue so mangled the record that the absurdities were neuer worth talking of since therefore the onely shift for your D. is to get them passe by parliament if he can for otherwise to take them to be such vppon his bare worde he must pardon vs for that for if he were Archb. of Cant. I tel you we would be loath to take his worde in this case we heare in deed many times a great noise and a rusteling and we see before vs as it were a swelling sea of big words telling vs many wonders of certaine strange blasphemies absurdities and I knowe not what but when we come to examine them by the touchston and look to be satisfied by some plaine demonstration or silogistical profe then beholde in liew of this there appeares before vs a man new come out of the cloudes as it were with his mace in his hand and his sandalles on his feet as it should seme rather to make lawes then to handle controuersies pointing with his finger at this and at that telling vs what he thinks as if al the world were to gape vpon him For what els should all these pretty flowers meane wherin for the most

no sacramét vnlesse he be a minister that deliuers it Is this to make the sacrament depend vpon the person or the person to giue credit to the sacrament I think not no more is it of the word And who seeth not that when he speaketh here of the persons he meaneth not as M. Some wold seem to enforce of the dignity or worthines of the persons or barely of the persons themselues as they be of men for that were too childishe but onely of the Calling and office of the parsons whiche being the holy ordinance of God prescribed in the worde what incongruitie or absurdity is it for the Lord to restrane th'ordinarie blessing of edification to his owne ordinance as if he should say My word is in deed the worde of life neuertheles if any man abuse it or profane it if any man presume to deale withall that hath no calling or warrant therevnto let him neuer looke that I will bloue vpon it with my spirit And who dare saye that there is or can be edification where the Lorde breatheth not with his spirit Therefore let M. Some say what he wil there can be neither error nor heresy to make not the person but the holy calling of the person that is the Lords owne ordinance to giue a majesty credite to his owne worde which in trueth is nothing els but to make the very word giue a credite to the word and so it is Autopisos still Now for his maner of writing I rest euen of the same judgment I was when the book came first into my hands you know what I then told you vpon the first taste of it I dare warrant you you shall finde it to be true for he is all in his short cuts questions like prety apothegs What say you to 40. ful points in 50. lines to 30. ful points in 33. lines to 6. ful points in 4. lines to 4. ful points in 3. lines Nay in one place about the pa. 76. as I remēber he hath more full points then lines yen in that space that Iohn a Bridges hath one period I dare be bound M. Some hath 50 or vpward And is not that sententiously written Nay farther let his whol book be wel viewed I meane his last book which of it self is not much aboue 40. leaues that in a large letter such as consumeth a great deal of paper in a little matter I dare vndertake you shal finde aboue 1500. full points So that whereas in one place he telleth his aduersary that vnles it be granted him that vnpreaching ministers haue no calling he is at a ful point his aduersary may now justly reply vpō him vnles the contrary be graunted him he is at a 1000. ful points And I pray you tel me are not his lungs in gret danger thinke you that he is so short winded that he can scarce tie 2. propositiōs togither in mood figure I promise you for mine owne part I am halfe afraid of him if he look not to himself in time Wel I could tel M. Some a notable receipt for this shortnes of breath if he woulde be ruled by me Firste he must crosse the Thames no more towards Lambeth for the moistues of the air so nere the water side is very dangerous hē the closenes of London streats is perilous for the stop ping of his pipes more the great fare entertainmēt about the court at Bb. houses may breede in time a Lethergie therfore his only way if he loue his helth must be to get him into the country in th'open aire to make his onely residence ordinary aboade vpon Gyrton benefice shaking of all other appendixes and hangbies whatsoeuer euen there in loue and consience to take pains with his poore parishuers aswel by publike teaching catechising of them as by priuate admonishment familiar conferences seeking to win them by all other good godly means that the Lord hath prescribed in his word And let him ask M. Grenham whether this be not an excelent medicine for the shortnes of the breath I warrant you he hath tried it and hath found good of it for he hath winde at wil ye see as shril pipes as most men Nowe M. Some may chuse he hath my direction for nothing if I might see his water I might happen tell him more I knowe there be other paltry practicioners in Phisike that wil aduise him otherwise but let him take it of my word it wil not be so good for him in the end For it is sure this short windinesse and nothing els that makes him thus in a kinde of kingly maner with so many vncontrollable periods to debate with vs I agree with you in this I dissent from you in this strange sansies haue almost consumed you your reuerence I make very base account of I thinke great scorne I tell you to be one of ignorant Penries disciples c. Sure your D. perswadeth himselfe I beleeue that looke what he saith it is a statute straght otherwise he woulde neuer come vppon his poore aduersary in this jumping manner Wel for all that if he can make shift with all the skill he hath to fetch a jump frō his benefice at Girton to some sweet Deanry or Bishopricke it wil sure be one of the pretiest jumps that euer he made in his life There be of his betters that haue made such Alemaine leapes in their dayes and thereby may the better direct him the way if neede be how thinke you by these jumps From Peter house to Penbrooke hall from thence to Trinitie Colledge from thence to Lincolne from Lincolne to Worcester from Worcester you knowe whither But were not these vengeable steps Wel let your D. looke to it for I haue knowne a man bursten in my daies with fetching such strides And this I feare me is the blessinge that he so often harpeth vpon as wel in his preface as in his booke It pleased God saith he to assist me graciously in my paines I haue taken I thanke his maiestie very humbly for it And I doubt not but he will giue ablessing vnto it And againe in an other place I was desired saith he to prouide a plaster I did so and God hath giuen a blessing to it And yet againe I doubt not but that blessing which god hath giuen already to my last tretise which his maiestie wil giue to this wil marre your market And last of all he closeth vp the mouth of all with this My comforte is that almightie God will blesse this labor But you may tel M. Some when you see him that I haue hearde of a man whoe dreaming of golde overnight had but an ilfauored mishap in the mornning These hasty promises of golden mountaines had neeede wee suppose haue better grounds then these dreaming conceipts and fansies of men For vnlesse it be some such blessing as I spake of before namly some hope or promise of promotion which is not so priuiledged neither but that it may end in bitternesse I durst me thinks in this case stand betwixt M. D. and the danger of any other greate blessing that may befall him As to those high wordes of his that he thinketh soule scorne to be one of ignorant Penries disciples c. Considering howe rightly it sorteth with the rest of his rhetoricke it can neither bring any grace to him selfe nor disgrace to his aduersatie Alasse it doeth but lay open the rottennesse and corruption of his harte being very far from that spirit that teacheth Let the greatest among you be as the least c. It is wel enough knowne that there be M. Somes betters I meane in learning and judgment that wil not refuse even in the feare of God to learne somtimes of far meaner men in gifts then ever M. Penri was whome howe the Lord hath blessed in plentiful measure that way his aduersaries themselues haue bin forced to acknowledge but I woulde you would aske M. Some when you see him where was Humile peccatum when he did thus treade vpon his aduersarie with a disdainfull foote Well to correct this bad humor of his you may doe wel to referre him to Apollos in the 18. of th' Act. who though he were an eloquent man mightie in the Scripture informed in the way of the Lord and seruent in the spirit yet saith the text did he not disdaine to learne of Aquila Priscilla who expounded vnto him the way of God perfectly wherevpon our Bb. owne note in the margent is this which we presume M. Some will giue eare vnto with reuerence Apollo say they being a learned man was not ashamed to be taught instructed in the doctrine of Christ of a poore crafts man his wise what great disparagement then coulde it be for such a man as M. Some is were he as great as an Archb. or a Cardinal to learne some small trifling things of of a poorer and meaner student because he knoweth that the Lord somtimes chooseth the weake thinges of the world to confound the wise And therefore he that shoulde wish your D. lesse learning more modestie shoulde I suppose wish him no hurt Thus haue you my verdicte because you requested it I confesse I haue bin too longe but it is my falt wherein as in any thinge els I am very wel content you shal censure me as you please I. G. 185 Master Some hath in his book aboue 400. naked assertions 54. M. Somes Booke cases 184. Mast. Sines booke cases This preacher as I vnderstoode since vvas M. Some himselfe 81 176 174 91 The recognisance that M. Bridges standeth bound in 8● 163 175 4● 192 119 97 66 150 81 Matth. 17. 66 71 70 69 87 96 132 102 103 179 147 144 94 73 66 139 66 82 83 143 67 92 35 130 114 10 181 172 Pag. 21 11 92 90 92 92 My Lord of vvinchesters judgement touching those that are baptized by Midvviues 183 73 140 120 97 119 137 136 47 48 187 175 176 162 114 166 144 176 183 102 147 166 Consu S●nd of Imag. 168 Contra. Stapl Fort. pag. 35. Rejond to B●istovv pag 10. Rejond 14. 143 168 177 147 155 18● 80 168 Rejond to Bristovve pag. 5. Institut lib. 4. cap. 2. sect 1. Contra. Siaple pag. 35. 149 150 98 120 120 118 preface 177 198 Luke 22. 26.