all learned men both liuing dead They may well be sayde to haue sealed this booke wyth their bloud How they sea led the booke with their bloud bicause they were martyred for that religion that is conteyned in this booke and according to the which this booke was framed and if they were condemned for improuing the articles drawne out of the Masse booke ▪ as you say why maye it not be likewise affirmed that they receyued the sentence of condemnation for approuing the Articles conteyned in the Communion booke I know the booke they dyed for was the booke of God yet did not the aduersarie pretende that but the articles drawne out of this and suche like bookes grounded vpon the worde and booke of God Name one of them who at the time of his death or in y e time of his imprisonmēt declared openly his misliking of certayne things in this booke I can shew you the contrarie That notable vessell of God for learning zeale and vertue inferiour to none of our M. Ridleys testimonie of the booke of cōmon prayer age Master Ridley Bishop of London in his last farewell as it is called looking dayly and hourely when he should go to the stake giueth this testimonie of this same booke of common prayers the whiche the Churche of Englande nowe vseth and you so contemptuously reiect This Churche sayth he of Englande had of late of the M. Foxe infinite goodnesse and abundant grace of almightie God great substance great riches of heauenly treasure plentie of Gods true and sincere worde the true and vvholsome administration of Christes holy sacraments the whole profession of Christes religion truely and playnely set foorth in baptisme the playne declaration and vnderstanding of the same taught in the holy ▪ Catechisme to haue bin learned of all true Christians This Church had also a true and sincere forme and maner of the Lords supper wherin according to Iesus Christes ordināce holy institution Christes cōmaundements were executed and done For vpon the bread and wine set vpon the Lords table thāks were giuen the commemoration of the Lords death was had the bread in the remembrance of Christes body torne vpon the crosse was broken and the cuppe in remembrance of Christes bloud was distributed and both communicated vnto all that were present and woulde receyue them and also they were exhorted of the minister so to do All was done openly in the vulgare tongue so that euery thing mighte be bothe easily heard and playnely vnderstoode of all the people to Gods high glory and the edification of the whole Church This Church had of late the whole diuine seruice all common and publike prayers ordeyned to be sayde and heard in the common congregarion not onely formed and fashioned to the true vayne of the holy Scripture but also set foorth according to the commaundement of the Lorde and S. Paules doctrine for the peoples edification in their vulgar tongue But I knowe his testimonie shall weigh with you as all other mens doe howbeit I trust it will pearce the hearts of the godly Neyther is this to oppose the bloud of men to the bloud of the sonne of God when the martyrdome of men is brought into beare witnesse vnto the truthe of God Chap. 1. the. 3. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 149. Sect. vlt. 150. Sect. 1. 2. The vnperfectnesse of this booke and such things in the fame as be culled and picked out of that popishe dunghill the Masse booke with the contents therein that be agaynst the worde of God shall appeare I am sure in your seuerall reasons for it is not sufficient for you barely to saye so without witte learning or reason This you know right wel that in so saying you make the Papists Aduantage gi uen to the papistes by the Admonitours leape for ioye bicause they haue gotten suche companions to assaulte this booke whylest they rest them lye as it were in sleepe O that the wyse men of this realme suche I meane as be in authoritie see not this Popishe practise and seeke not with more earnestnesse to preuent it Will ye suffer the Papists to gather strength and to multiplie by tollerating such Libellers vnder the pretēce of reformatiō to discredite so muche as lyeth in them yea to ouerthrow the whole state and substance of religion in this Churche Bee not secure but watche and remember the beginning and encrease of the Anabaptistes of late in Germanie whiche I haue described in my Preface to this booke You saye that you can not but much maruell at the craftie wilynesse of those men whose partes it had beene first to haue proued eache and euery content therin to be agreable to Gods word c. Nay surely but it were your parts rather to proue The apponēt must proue by rules of Logike that there is something therein contrarie or not agreable to Gods worde For such as be learned and knowe the manner of reasoning say that the Opponent must proue or improue and not the answerer They stande to the defense and mayntenance of the booke you seeke to ouerthrowe it it is your partes therfore to iustifie your assertions by reasons and arguments T. C. Pag. 157. Sect. 1. For the Papistes triumphe I haue answered before and I will not striue about the Goates 〈◊〉 who is the apponent and who the respondent in this difference Io. Whitgifte Thus you passe all this ouer in silence for I doe not remember where you haue answered one worde to it Chap. 1. the. 4. Diuision Admonition They should first proue by the worde of God that a reading seruice going before and with the administration of the sacraments is according to the worde of God that wafer cakes for theyr bread when they minister it surplesse and cope to doe it in churching of women comming in vayles abuong the Psalme to hir I haue lifted vp mine eyes vnto the hilles c. and suche other Psal. 120. foolishe things are agreable to the written worde of the almightie Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 151. Sect. 2. 152. Sect 1. I doe not well vnderstande your meaning would you haue vs to proue that to reade prayers before and with the administration of The order of prayers in the Communion booke agreable to y e scripture the sacraments is according to the worde of God In deede in the booke of seruice there is first appoynted to be read some one or two profitable sentences mouing eyther to prayer or to repentance after followeth a generall confession then the Lords prayer and certayne Psalmes nexte certayne chapters out of the olde and newe Testamente c. laste of all the administration of the sacramente If you aske me of the sentences they be scripture If of the Lordes prayer Psalmes and chapters they be scripture also If of the sacrament of the Supper it is according to scripture Matth. 26. Marke 14. Luke 22. 1. Cor. 11. If of
to the practise of the Church and truth and notorious vntruthes affirmed by him of the Answere to the Admonition with sundrie other grosse ouersights because I haue noted them in the margent and plainly detected them in my Defense to this Replier and are for the most part noted also in the Generall Table vnder these 3. titles Falsifications of the Replier T. C. charged with vntruth T. C. chargeth the Answere falsely Men may erre and be deceiued but either to speake nothing truly or often to fault in vntrue dealing cannot be a token of the spirite of truth the which spirite of truth God for his Christes sake graunt vnto all those that haue a heartie desire to know the truth FINIS A TABLE OF THE PRINCIPALL titles and matters handeled at large in this Booke AN answere to the Epistle Dedicated by T. C. too the Church of Englād c. pag. 1 An Epistle of the Author too the Church of England 17 An exhortation to the Ciuil ecclesiasticall Magistrates 31 An aunswere to the Preface of the Admonition 57 Tractatus 1. VVhether Christ forbiddeth rule and superioritie vnto mi nisters 61 The true interpretation of the 20 of Mathew c. Reges gentium c. Cap. 1. 61 The exposition of the place Math. 23. Cap. 2. 71 Tract 2. Of the authoritie of the church in things indifferent 76 Som things may be tollerated in the Church touching order ceremonies discipline kind of gouern ment not expressed in the woord of God Chap. 1. 76 The opinion of the auncient fathers and councelles of thinges indifferent Chap. 2 95 The opinion of Saint Augustine of things indifferent Chap. 3 99 The opinion of M. Caluine of things indifferent Chap. 4. 109 The opinion of Bucer of things indifferent Chap. 5 113 The expositiō of the places of Deut. 4. 12. quoted by the Admonition Chap. 6. 116 The opinion of other late writers of thinges indifferent Chap. 7. 126 Tract 3. Of the election of Ministers 132 Of the triall of Ministers both in lear ning and conuersation Chap. 1. pag. 132 VVhether Idolatrous sacrificers and Massemongers maye afterwardes be Ministers of the Gospell Chap. 2. 143 Of Ministers learning Catechismes Chap ▪ 3. 152 Of the election of Ministers by the voices and consent of the people Chap. 4. 154 An examinatiō of the reasons which T. C. vseth to proue the perpetuall equitie c. of elections by the people Chap. 5. 170 The diuersitie betwixt the Apostles times oures requireth a diuers kind of gouernement and of ordering of Ministers Chap. 6. 174 That Bishops haue authoritie to admit and ordeine Ministers Chap. 7. 194 It is not necessary that the people should haue interest in the election of Ministers but the contrary is conuenient Chap. 8. 211 Tract 4. Of Ministers hauing no pastorall charge of ceremonies vsed in ordering Ministers of Apostles Euangelistes and Prophets 216 Of Ministers admitted a place being not voyd Chap. 1 216 Of ceremonies vsed in ordeining Mi nisters Chap. 2. 225 Of Apostles Euangelists and Prophets Chap. 3. 228 Tract 5. Of Residence of the pastor Chap. 1. 235 Of pluralities or hauing moe benefices than one Chap. 2. 246 Tract 6. Of Ministers that cānot preach and of licences to preach 251 Some may be Ministers that cannot preach Chap. 1. 251 Of licences to preach Chap. 2 254 Tract 7. Of apparell of Ministers 256 The causes vvhy they refuse the Apparell examined Chap. 1. 256 That Ministers vvere knovvne in times past by distinct apparell Chap. 2. 261 That the Magistrate may appoynt a distinct apparell for Ministers Chap. 3. 264 The distinction of apparell vvas appointed before the Popes tiranny Chap. 4. 268 That the apparel now vsed is not Po pishe or Antichristian And that things inuented by euil men may be vsed of Christians Chap. 5. 271 Diuers thinges concerning apparell in other places of the Aunsvvere chap. 6. 282 The faultes vvherevvith the Admonitors charge the apparell aunswered Chap. 7 283 Tract 8. Of Archbishops Metropolitās Bishops Archdeacons c. pag. 297 The reasons of T. C. ansvvered wher by he goeth about to take awaye the superfluous loppe as hee termeth it of the offices chap. 1. 297 That the names of Metropolitane Archbishop c. be not Antichristian chap. 2. 318 The offices of Archbishops c. are not straung or vnheard of in Chri stes church and of superioritie among the Clergie chap. 3. 353 The defense of the ansvvere of maister Iewell concerninge Archbishops c. against the vnreuerend Reply of T. C. chap. 4 422 The causes of Archbishops and of their prerogatiue and the estate of the old Bishops assigned by T. C. examined Chap. 5. 435 Other things concerning the offices and authoritie of our clergie of inequalitie of degrees amongst ministers c. dispersed in other places of the Answer chap. 6. 453 A briefe collection of such authorities as are vsed in this defense of the authoritie of Archbishops Bishops Chap 7. 470 A briefe comparison of the Bishops of our time and the Bishoppes of the primitiue Church Chap. 8. pag. 47 Tract 9. Of the communiō booke 474. The generall faultes examined wher vvith the publike seruice is charged by T. C. Chap. 1. 474 An examination of the particular faultes either in matter or forme whervvith the Booke of commō praier is charged Chap. 2. 487 Of Baptisme by women vvherwith the communion Booke is falsly charged Chap. 3. 503 Of ministring the sacraments in priuate places Chap. 4. 511 The sacraments ministred by other than Ministers Chap. 5. 515 Of priuate communion wherwith the Admonition chargeth the Booke of common prayer Chap. 6. 525. Of Churching of women 534 Tract 10. Of holydayes 538 Of holidayes in generall and that they maye bee appointed by the Church and of the vse of them Chap. 1. 538 Of Saints dayes Chap. 2. 543 Tract 11. VVhat kind of preachinge is most effectuall 555 Tract 12. Of preaching before the administration of the Sacraments 562. Tract 13. Of reading of the Scriptures 568. A comparison betvveene reading of Scriptures and preaching Chap. 1. page 568 That reading is preaching chap. 2. pag. 574 The profite of reading Scriptures in the Church chap. 3. 578 Tract 14. Of ministring and preachinge by Deacons 582 Tract 15. Of matters touching the communion 588 Of orders and ceremonies vsed in the celebration of the Communion chap. 1. 588 Of shutting men from the communion and compelling to communicate chap. 2. 603 Of playn and simple ministring and receyuing of the communion Chap. 3. 605 Tract 16. Of matters touching baptisme pag. 607 Of interrogatories ministred to infantes Chap. 1. 607 Of Godfathers and their promise Chap. 2 612 Of fontes and crossing in baptisme Chap. 3. pag. 614 Of the parties that are to bee baptised Chap. 4 619 Tract 17. Of the Seigniorie or gouernement by Seniors 626 VVhether there were such as the Ad monition calleth Seniors in euery Congregation chap. 1. 626 VVhether the gouernement by
well and conueniently be But for so muche as you afterwarde make mention of excommunication and other censures of the Churche whiche are forerunners vnto excommunication I take it that you meane the externall gouernment of the Churche and that kynde of gouernment And yet muste I aske you another question that is whyther you meane that this gouernmente and kynde of gouermente is necessarye at all tymes or then when the Churche is collected together and in suche place where it maye haue gouernment For you knowe that the Churche is sometymes by persecution so dispersed that it appeareth not as we reade Apocal. 6. Nor hath anye certayne place to remayne in so that it can not haue anye externall gouernment or exercise of any discipline But to be shorte I confesse that in a Churche collected togither in one place and In what specte gouernment is necessarie at libertie gouernment is necessarie in the seconde kinde of necessitie but that any one kynde of gouernment is so necessarie that withoute it the Churche can not be saued or that it maye not be altered into some other kynde thought to be more expedient I vtterly denye and the reasons that moue me so to doe be these The firste is bycause I fynde no one certaine and perfitte kynde of gouernmente Reasons why the Church 〈◊〉 not tied to any one certayne kinde of externall gouernment prescribed or commaunded in the Scriptures to the Churche of Christ which no doubt shoulde haue bene done if it had bene a matter necessarie vnto the saluation of the Church Secondly bycause the essentiall notes of the Churche be these onely The true preaching of the worde of God and the righte administration of the Sacramentes Onely two essentiall notes of the church for as Maister Caluine sayth in his Booke agaynst the Anabaptistes Thys honour is meete to be gyuen to the worde of God and to his Sacramentes that wheresoeuer we Caluine aduer Anabap. see the worde of God truely preached and God accordyng to the same truely worshypped and the Sacramentes wythoute superstition administred there we maye wythoute all controuersie conclude the Churche of God to be and a little after so muche we muste esteeme the worde of God and hys Sacramentes that wheresoeuer we fynde them to be there we maye certaynely knowe the Churche of God to be althoughe in the common life of men manye faultes and errours be founde The same is the opinion of other godly and learned writers and the iudgement of the reformed Confess Heb uetica cap. 17. Churches as appeareth by their confessions So that notwythstanding gouernment or some kynde of gouernment maye be a parte of the Churche touching the outwarde forme and perfection of it yet is it not suche a parte of the essence and being but that it may be the Churche of Christ without this or that kinde of gouernment and therefore the kynde of gouernmente of the Churche is not necessarie vnto saluation The Church of Corinth when Paule did write vnto it was the Church of Christ for so doth he call it 1. Cor. 1. where also he doth giue vnto it a singular commendation and yet it had not at that time when he so commendeth it that kynde of gouernment and discipline that you meane of that is excommunication as appeareth 1. Cor. 5. My thirde reason is this If excommunicatiō which is a kind of gouernment be necessarie to saluation then any man may separate him selfe from euerie Church wherin is no excommunication but no man may separate himselfe from euery Church wherin is no excommunicatiō therfore excommunication which is a kynde of gouernment is not necessarie to saluation The first proposition is euident for no man is bounde to remaine in that Churche where any thing is wanting without the which he cannot want of excōmunication is no iust cause of separation from any Churche be saued As for the seconde proposition that is to saye that no man ought to separate him selfe from euerie Churche where excommunication is not bycause it is learnedly proued by suche as haue written against the Anabaptistes who both dyd teache and practise the contrarie it shall be sufficient to referre you vnto them Maister Caluine in hys Booke against the Anabaptistes fayth thus Herein is the controuersie Caluine aduer Anabap. betwixte the Anabaptistes and vs that they thinke there is no Church where this gouernment meaning excommunication is not appointed or not vsed and exercised as it ought to be nor that a Christian mā there ought to receiue the Supper and vnder that pretence they separate themselues from the Churches where the worde of God is truely preached c. M. Bullinger also in his sixt booke against the Anabaptistes saith This the Anabaptistes Bul. lib. 6. aduer Anabap. do vrge that there is no true Church acceptable vnto God where there is no excommunication the whiche they vse To these therefore we answere that the Churche of Corinth was a true Church and so acknowledged of Paule to be 1. Cor. 1. before there was any vse of excommunication in it c. of the same iudgement is M. Gaulter writing vpon Gualter in 1. Cor. 5. the first to the Corinth 5. VVhilest the Anabaptistes persuade themselues that there can be no discipline wythout excommunication they trouble the Churches euery where c. In the same Chapter he sayth that there is no one certaine kinde of gouernment or discipline prescribed to y e Churches but that the same may be altered as the profit of the Churches shall require His words among other be these Let euery Church follow Ibidem that maner of discipline which doth most agree with the people with whō it abideth and which seemeth to be most fit for the place and time And let no man here rashely prescribe vnto others neither let him binde all Churches to one and the same forme But of this matter I shall haue occasion to speake more hereafter where it shall appeare howe farre this learned man M. Gualter is from allowing that kinde of g uernment now in this state of the Churche the which T. C. woulde make vs to beléeue to be so necessarie This haue I briefely set downe not to disalowe discipline or gouernment for I thinke it very conuenient in the Church of Christ nor yet to reiect excommunicatiō which also hath a necessarie vse in the gouernment of the Church but to declare that this assertion can not stande with the truth with learning that the kynde of gouernment meaning as I thinke some one certaine kinde of externall gouernment is necessarie to saluation Chap. 1. the thirde Diuision T. C. Page 14. Sect. 1. 2. And it is no small iniurie which you do vnto the word of God to pinne it in so narrow roome as that it should be able to direct vs but in the principall poyntes of our Religion or as though the substance of Religion or some rude and
he hath once vttered And their ambition also is no lesse heere reproued which goe about to bring all Churches vnto the forme of their order and discipline and crie out that there is no discipline where all things are not correspondent to their orders and statutes but these men receyue a iust rewarde of their arrogancie when as they which come from them to other countreys do goe beyonde all other in sausy malopartnesse neyther bring they any thing with them from home but a vayne and vntollerable contempt of all good men neyther can they abide that they shoulde be corrected by nye admonition of others c. Beware of ambitious morositie and take héede of a new Popedome I thinke no Churche is so bounde to the example of an other but that in externall rites and ceremonies there is frée libertie giuen vnto it to appoynt what shall be for the presente state and time moste conuenient You may not binde vs to followe any particular Churche neyther ought you to consent to any suche newe seruitu Chap. 1. the. 14. Diuision T. C. Pag. 104. Sect. 3. An other faulte there is in the whole seruice or Lyturgie of Englande for that it maynteyneth an vnpreaching ministerie And so consequently an vnlawfull ministerie I say it maynteyneth no somuche in that it appoynteth a number of Psalmes and other prayers and chapters to be read which may occupie the tyme which is to be spent in preaching wherein notwithstanding it ough to haue beene more wary considering that the Diuell vnder this colour of long prayer dyd thus in the kingdome of Antichrist banishe preaching (*) 〈◊〉 à non 〈◊〉 ▪ I say not so muche in that poynt as for that it requireth necessarily nothing to be done by the minister which a childe of tenne yeare olde can not oe as well and as lawfully as that man wherewith the booke contenteth it selfe Io. Whitgifte This is a straunge collection that the booke of Common prayer maynteyneth an preaching ministery bicause it appoynteth a number of Psalmes and other prayers and chapters to be read whiche may occupie the time that is to be spent in preaching Would you haue prea ching onely and neyther reading nor praying in the publike congregation or doe you thinke that the chapters and prayers that are read occupie too long time or are you persuaded that there commeth no profite by rea ing and praying If you meane the first you haue the examples of the Churches in all places and at all tymes agaynst you if you meane the 〈◊〉 the time is not so long that is spent in praying and reading but that there may be preaching also the longest tyme if there b no Communion is not more than an houre and can you spende that houre better than in praying and hearing the scriptures read If you meane the thirde I shall haue oc asion to speake more of it héereafter But you say it dothe not so muche maynteyne an vnpreaching ministerie in that T. C. seeketh to deface the bo ke without reason poynt as for that it requireth nothing necessarily to be done by the minister whiche a childe of ten yeres olde can not doe as well and as lawfully as that man wherewith the booke contenteth it selfe It requireth of him besides playne and distincte reading the administration of the Sacramentes and maye a childe of ten yeres olde doe that also Who séeth not that you are of purpose set to deface the booke thoughe it be with chyldishe reasons Bicause a chylde may reade the booke dothe it therefore maynteyne an vnpreaching ministerie you mighte as well saye that bicause a chylde of ten yeres olde can reade the Byble translated into Englishe therefore the Byble translated into Englishe maynteyneth an vnpreaching ministerie This argument is à non caus Chap. 1. the. 15. Diuision T. C. Page 104. Sect. 3. Neyther can it be shifted in saying this is done for want of able men to be ministers for it may be easily answered that first the want of sufficient ministers ought to be no cause for men to breake the vnchaungeable lawes of God whych be that none may be made minister of the Church whych can not teache that none minister the sacraments whyche doe not preache for although it might be graunted whych thing I would not denie no not when there are inoughe sufficient ministers that they may appoynt some godly graue man which can oe nothing else but reade to be a reader in the Churche yet that may not be graunted that they may make of one that can do nothing but reade a minister of the Gospell or one which may haue power to minister the sacraments Io. Whitgifte Where is that vnchaungeable lawe of God that none may minister the sacraments Some may minister the sacraments which do no preache C rysost which doe not preache what Scripture or authoritie haue you for it Chrysostome Hom. 3. 1. Cor. 1. vpon these words Non enim misit me Christus vt baptizarem c. saythe thus He sayth not I was forbidden but I am not sent to doe this but to doe that whiche was more necessarie Euangelizare enim perp ucorum est baptizare autem cuiuslibe modò fungatur sacerdotio for few can preach the Gospel but euery man may baptise that i a priest And Ambrose vpon the same words and chapter sayth thus Non omni qui baptizat Ambrose idoneus est euangelizare verba enims lennia sunt quae dicuntur in Baptismate c. Euery one which baptizeth is not apte to preache the Gospell for the words that are spoken in baptisme are vsuall to conclude the Apostle Peter commaunded other to baptize Cornelius neyther dyd he vouchsafe to doe it himselfe other ministers beeing present c. Peter Martyr writing vpon the same words of the Apostle sayth likewise Therefore Peter 〈◊〉 the office of baptizing was committed to euery one in the Churche but not the office of preaching Neyther is it to be doubted but the Apostles themselues would haue baptized if there had lacked other ministers But seeing there was many whō they might winne to the Gospell by preaching they committed them to other to be baptized So sayth M. Caluine also vpon the same words Fewe there were to whome the office Caluine of preaching was committed but to baptize was committed to many c. Zuinglius in his booke de Baptismo of this matter speaketh thus The disciples administred Zuinglius the externall baptisme once with doctrine and the spirite for Christ taught and they did baptize as it appeareth Ioh. 4. And Paule sayde Christ sente me not to baptize but to preache therefore some taught and other some baptized Musculus also in his common places declareth that In some Churches some were Musculus in oc com de c na 〈◊〉 admitted to minister the Sacraments that were not admitted to preache And he dothe not disallowe that maner but alloweth it And M. Beza lib conf
order Wherby it should seeme that they haue learned to allowe of a prescript order of prayers but not of that prescript order which is in the booke of publike prayers This is no dallying neyther yet inconstancie For the. 3. of Mat. ver 12. is placed 3. of Mat. ver 1. to proue that in the olde time the word was preached before the sacramēts were ministred the place now alleaged is this In those dayes Iohn the Baptist came and preached in the vvildernesse of Iudea This proueth that Iohnpreached but it proueth not that whensoeuer Iohn did baptise then he did preache Oueragaynst these words the Nicene creede was not read in their cōmunion A protestation by the way is written in the margent Note that we condemne not the doctrine conteyned therein If you condemne not the doctrine therin what do you then cōdemne or why mislike you the cōmunion bicause that creede conteyning true doctrine is read at the celebration therof It is well that you make this protestation if you meane good fayth Here is also added the. 42. ver Act. 2. to proue that then the sacrament was ministred with cōmon vsual bread which place I haue answered before in answering to the. 46. verse of that chapter Where as before it was thus interrogatories ministred to the Infant Godfathers They allowe godfathers godmothers at the last and Godmothers brought in by Higinus nowe Godfathers and Godmothers brought it by Higinus is left out It is happy that you are sosoone persuaded to allow of godfathers and godmothers I perceyue you tooke vpon you to set downe a platforme of a Church before you had well considered of it Fol. 4. For some one of the congregation is nowe some of the congregation wherby they seeme to allowe mo godfathers than one whiche they dyd not before For the. 14. of the Acts verse 4. is noted the. 15. of the Acts vers 4. to proue that the office of Seniors was to gouerne the Church with the rest of the ministers but without reason For it is onely there written that at Ierusalem there was Apostles and Elders that Paule and Barnabas declared vnto them what things God had done by them I denie not the thing it selfe whereof I haue sufficiently spoken before but the argument These Seniors then bicause their charge was not ouer muche did execute their office in their owne persons Nowe these words bicause their charge was not ouer much be lefte out Wherfore they haue left them out I knowe not Fol. 5. They haue lefte out Doctors three tymes in this leafe whiche before they recited with Chauncelors Archdeacons Officials Commissaries Why Doctors of 〈◊〉 be left out Proctors Belyke they haue remembred that this worde Doctor is founde in the newe Testament and especially Doctor of lawe To proue equalitie of ministers they haue added Phil. 1. verse 1. 1. Thes. 1. 1. The first place is this Paule and Timotheus the seruaunts of Iesus Christ to all Saincts in Christ Iesus that are at Philippi vvith the Bishops and Deacons The seconde is this Paule and Syluanus and Timotheus vnto the Church of the Thessalonians c. Truely I knowe not howe to conclude of those places an equalitie of all ministers I would to God you would set downe your places and frame your arguments yourselues Fol. 6. They haue forgotten to quote Heb. 6. 1. and haue left out the body and Tayle of Antichrist braunche of Antichrist and for the same haue put in the tayle But these are but trifles and very slender corrections Io. Whitgifte To all these there is nothing sayde belike the Authors of the Admonition muste answere for them selues or else prouide another Proctor Ansvvere to the additions c. of the seconde parte of the admonition Fol. 2. For the first of Tim. 3. verse 3. nowe they haue quoted 1. Tim. 3. verse 6. agaynst reading ministers Where S. Paul would not haue a minister to be a yong scholer but he speaketh nothing agaynst reading T. C. Pag. 173. Sect. 2. Unto the seconde leafe of the addition of the second parte of the Admonition M. Doctor sayth that bicause the. 3. to Titus maketh not agaynst reading therfore it maketh not agaynst reading ministers that is ministers that can doe nothing but reade Io. Whitgifte It is in the. 1. Tim. 3. and it maketh agaynst vnlearned Ministers not agaynst the reading of Ministers for he may be a reading Minister and yet learned Ansvvere to the Detractions c. It was before reading is not feeding nowe it is thus amended for Correction of a sodeyne bare reading of the worde and single seruice saying is bare feeding whereby they now confesse that reading is feeding although it be as they say but bare feeding We were in good case if the platforme of our Church depended vpon these men which alter their iudgements so sodenly It is a true saying Conueniet nulli qui secum dissidet ipse Hovve can he agree vvith other that doth not agree vvith himselfe T. C. Pag. 173. Sect. vlt. And where as he would picke out a contradiction in the wordes of the Admonition bicause they say bare reading is but bare feeding the discord is in his cares not in their wordes For when they sayde it was no feeding they ment such feeding as could saue them and so in calling it bare feeding they note that there is not (*) This is anec m and contrarie to that which ou haue pa. 158. 〈◊〉 15. c. inaugh in that to keepe them from famishment And indeede vnlesse the Lord worke miraculously and extraordinarily which is not to be looked for of vs the bare reading of the scriptures without the preaching cannot deliuer so much as one poore shepe frō destruction and from the wolfe And if some haue bene conuerted wonderfully yet M. D. should remember that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 That is the water doth not alway beare yron Io. Whitgifte Reading is not feeding and reading is beare feeding be both vntruthes and derogate from the Maiestie and dignitie of the worde of God but yet in these speaches there is contrarietie for bare féeding is féeding What they ment by not feeding their words following doe declare for say they it is as euill as playing vpon a stage and worse to c. The Replier falleth into contrarietie whiles he seeketh to cleare the Admonition of it whereof I haue spoken before But whilst-you go about to excuse them of contrarietie you fall into it your selfe for page 158. of your booke comparing the reading of the Scriptures with reading of Homilies yeu say that the worde of God is also plaine and easie to be vnderstanded such as giueth vnderstanding to Idiots and to the simple c. And now you say that there is not enough in the reading of the scrptures to keepe the people from famishment c. the which how farre it differeth from your former words no man is so blind Pag.
1. COR. 8. 2. If any man thinke that he knoweth any thing he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to knowe ¶ THE DEFENSE of the Aunswere to the Admonition against the Replie of T. C. BY IOHN VVHITGIFT Doctor of Diuinitie In the beginning are added these 4. Tables 1 Of dangerous doctrines in the Replie 2 Of Falsifications and Untruthes 3 Of matters handled at large 4 A table generall If any man be contentious we haue no such custome neyther the Churches of God 1. Cor. 11. 16. †Printed at London by Henry Binneman for Humfrey Toye Anno. 1574. GAL. 5. 26. Let vs not be desirous of vaineglorie prouoking one another enuying one another ¶ To the godlie Reader IT VVERE BVT A NEEDLESSE labour to make any particular recitall of those pointes of doctrine vvhich this Church of Englande at this day doth holde and maintayne for they be at large set out in sundrie english bookes and especially in the Apologie of the Church of Englande and the Defense of the same summarily also collected together in the boke of Articles agreed vpon in the Conuocation at London Anno 1562. c. this I dare boldely affirme that all pointes of Religion necessarie to saluation and touching eyther the mysterie of our redemption in Chryst or the right vse of the Sacramentes and true manner of vvorshipping God are as purely and perfectely taught and by publike authoritie established in this Church of England at this day as euer they vvere in any church sithence the Apostles time or novv be in any reformed Church in the vvorld the vvhich to be true those that be learned euen among the myslikers of this present state can not nor vvill not denie Likevvise that all Heresies all corrupt doctrines all superstitious and papisticall opinions haue bene and be by the Prince and the Realme banished by the learned Byshops and Preachers in vvorde and in vvriting confuted vvho is so blinded vvith malice that he cannot see or so frovvard and vvilfull that he vvil not confesse VVhat shall vvethen think of those men that are so farre from acknovvledging this singular and vnspeakeable benefite proceeding from the mere mercie of God so farre from being thankfull for the same from desiring the continuance of it vvith heartie prayers that by all meanes possible they seek rather to obscure it and to deface it bicause in certaine accidentall poynts they haue not their fantasies and proper deuises If this be not to set themselues agaynst God and to trouble the peace of the Church for externall things vvhich is schismaticall let the quiet and godlie Christian iudge Hovve much better had it bene for them to haue proceeded in teaching necessarie pointes of doctrine and exhorting to obedience to concorde to godlie lyfe and conuersation than thus vvith no small reioycing of the vvicked great offence of the vveak Gospellers maruellous grief of the Queenes maiestie and other that haue the care of gouernment frovvardly to dysquiet and dysturb the Church trouble the happie peace of the cōmon vveale and hazard the vvhole state of Religion they shall one day if not to late vvell vnderstand Furthermore it behoueth all godlie mindes that vvill not be caried avvay vvith rash and ouerhastie iudgemēt in this cōtrouersie to cōsider not only that that I haue before spoken of the truth of doctrine publikely receyued and cōfirmed but also circumspectly to vveigh the circumstances of time place person and the vvhole state of things novve in this Church and Realme of Englande The regarde vvherof in mine opinion must needes cause in all discrete heades a staye of iudgement in comparison that the things themselues barely considered vvoulde do The state of this Church of Englande at this day God be thanked is not Heathenish Turkish or Papisticall in vvhich conditiō many things might be done that othervvise are not to be attempted but it is the state of a church reformed and by authoritie and consent settled not only in truth of doctrine as before is noted but also in order of thinges externall touching the gouernment of the Church and administration of the Sacramentes VVherefore the controuersie is not vvhether many of the thinges mentioned by the platformers vvere fitlie vsed in the Apostles time or may novv be vvell vsed in some places yea or be cōueniently vsed in sundrye reformed Churches at this day For none of these braunches are denyed neither do vve take vpon vs as vve are sclaundered either to blame or to condemne other Churches for such orders as they haue receiued most fit for their estats But this is the vvhole state of our controuersie vvhen vve of this Church in these perillous dayes do see that vve haue a greate number of hollovve hartes vvithin this Realme that daylie gape for alteratiō of Religiō and many mightie great enimies abroade busilie deuising and vvorking to bring the same to passe and to ouerthrovve the state both of religion and of the Realme vvhether seing vve haue a setled order in doctrine and gouernment receiued and confirmed by lavve it may stand vvith godlie and Christian vvisdome vvith disobedience to the Prince and lavve and vvith the vnquietnes of the Church and offence of many consciences to attempt so greate alteratiō as this platforme must needes bring and that for matters externall onlye and vvith such egernesse and bitternesse that they deface and discredite the vvhole state of this Church vvith al the Preachers and Ecclesiasticall gouernours of the same as remayning in horrible corruptions and Antichristian deformities and thereby fill the mouthes of the aduersaries vvith greater matter of obloquie to deface the gospell than euer of them selues they had bene able to deuise Surely I could neuer reade but that they that should so do vvere rather to be estemed troublesome and schismaticall defacers than zealous and godly reformers I knovve that no Church can be so perfect in all points of externall gouerment and ceremonies but that such as be disposed maye picke some occasion of quarrelling thereat thoughe vniustlie therefore the true members of the Church must not be to light of credit nor to redie to follovve contentious captaines For S. Paule sayeth Si quis sit contenfiosus inter vos c. If any be contentious among you we haue no such custome neyther the Churches of God c. Againe vvhen any thing is amisse it must be considered vvhether the faultes be in the thinges themselues or in the persons for vve may not vvith partiall and corrupt iudgement impute the faultes of the persons to the things vvhether they be offices or ceremonies for then should vve continuallie bee altering the state and neuer stand stedfast in any kynde of gouernment therefore in such cases vve must seke to reforme the abuses in men vve must not pull avvaye the states and offices or the thinges themselues bicause they be abused by some men But to let this passe and come to the purpose this Replie of T. C. vvhich is of some counted
Ouersight of T. C. 203. 208. 248. 530 P. ¶ Papistes in the Church and how Pag. 179 Papistes like too the Israelites vnder Ieroboam 625 Papistes and Gentils agree not in all respectes 475. 624 VVe conforme not our selues to Papistes in ceremonies 475 The Order of Popish seruice cleane altered 476 Of hauing things commō with Papistes 477. 478. 479. c. Papisme an erring of the Christian Church 624. 625 The Churche couered in Papistry pag. 624 The Papistes opinion of Christian Magistrates 631 The Papistes cōfesse that the Prince may punish priestes 701 A Papisticall assertion of T. C. 77 ¶ Diuision of parishes 249. 250 Parishes deuided by man 250 ¶ The faith behauior of Parents pag. 620 ¶ Pastours absence allowed 245 A Pastour ought too care for the whole church 243 A Pastor may be absent vpon occasion 236. A Pastor maye preache in moe places 237. Carelesse and slouthfull Pastors not defended 241. ¶ Patrirach Looke Archbishop ¶ Co etous Patrones 774 ¶ Paul alone had ius excommunicandi 665. 667. Paulus Samosatenus 447. ¶ Peters forswearing 144. 146 Peter chiefe in Apostolicall assemblies 393. c Peter chief among the Apostles 468 c. Peter Archbishop of Alexādria 338. 339. 471. ¶ Peritio principii Looke Argumentum ¶ Persecution pretended 58. 706. 777. Persecution doth both increase and diminishe the number of professors 75 Persecution of the tongue 706 ¶ A pestident mischief 481. ¶ The people not alvvayes admitted to elections 212. 213 VVhy the people haue bene and ought to be debarred from elections 213. c The consent of the people in elections to Cyprians time 164 Elections of ministers by the people not generall 164. 165 The people ignorant and not able to iudge 177. 215 The people easily led by affection page 215. VVhat interest the people had in elections 205 The commō people speciall authors of tumults in elections 206 The people hardly brought to leaue accustomed termes 534 The people witnesses not Ministers of excommunication 666 The people vnapt to gouerne 683 ¶ Description of a Pharisie 807 ¶ Phrases of Poets vsed of Diuines page 274 ¶ Philip a deacon baptised 515. 582. ¶ A new platforme 803 ¶ Pluralities 246. c ¶ The ende of the Apostles in pollicie ecclesiasticall muste be respected and not their deedes 212 ¶ Potestas facti not iuris ascribed to Princes 696. 702 ¶ Popularitie 14 The Replyers argumentes tende to Popularitie 684 ¶ Poyson hid in the Repliers doctrine 626 ¶ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 497 ¶ Prayers grounded vpon promises pag. 492 Prayer to be deliuered from al aduer sitie good 491. c. Conditions annexed too Prayer for externall things 482 Humilitie in Prayer required 493 Prayer to be deliuered from thunder pag. 494 c. All things to be prayed for tend to the glory of God 495 Prayer before daungers 495 Interpretation of the last petition in the Lordes Prayer 497. 498 Short Prayers called shredds by T. C. 499 The Scripture prescribeth no forme of publike Prayer 501 Prayer for the dead not mayntained pag. 728. c. Prayer that all men may bee saued pag. 739 Prayer by hart only effectuall 740 Repetition of Prayer not forbidden pag. 803. c. Christe vseth repetition of the same Prayer 805 ¶ Preaching before the ministration of the Sacraments 562. c. VVhat kinde of Preaching is moste effectuall 554. c. Verball Preachers 558 One learned sermon better thā many vnlearned 555 Friuolous and contentious Sermons pag. 555. 791 The fansie of T. C. concerninge the forme of Preaching and Praying pag. 499 VVhen Preaching before baptisme is necessary 563. c. 567 Preaching before the ministratiō of the Sacramentes not disallovved pag. 565. 568 Preachig the most ordinary meanes to saluation 570 Preaching profiteth moe than reading and vvhy 572 A written sermon is Preaching 575 The number of Preachers bred in Cambridge since the Queenes reigne 141 The number of Preachers in Cambridge 141 Difference betwixt the complaintes of godly Preachers and Anabaptistes 40 A temporal Lord may be a Preacher pag. 64 The word may be Preached priuatly both in respect of place persons 93. 94 A Preacher may profite them whom he knovveth not 239 A Preacher is called thither wher he may do most good 244 ¶ Pres byter vsually taken for a Minister 626. c Two kindes of Pres byterie 627 Pres byterie Looke Seniors ¶ Pride clooked with zeale 34. 42. The beginning of the Pride of the Church of Rome 607 ¶ The name of Priest 721. c. Priest concerning the office neuer in euill part 723 King Edwardes Priests left out 781 ¶ Primate Looke Archbishop ¶ Quod primum verum 370. 371. ¶ The Princes authority diminished and her troubles increased 173 The Prince head of the Church 181. 301. 6 0. Prince Looke Magistrate ¶ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 410 ¶ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 68 ¶ Promises conditionall 613 ¶ Prophets in some respect ordinary pag. 218 Prophets remaine 229. 230 Prophets knowne by distinct apparell 262 ¶ Psalmes song side by side 740. c. ¶ Pulpets and chayers 91 ¶ Punishment corporal a meanes to saluation 765. ¶ Puritane 73 Purely and truely 131 The puritie that can abyde no imperfection is diuellishe 260 Q ¶ Quintus Sceuola 708 ¶ Quod omnes tangit ab omnibus approbari debet how it holdeth pag. 170. 171 ¶ Quotations the ground of the Ad monition 59 Vaine Quotations necessarily confu ed. 60. 61 Subtiltie in Quoting places 73 Vaine quotation 234. 261 Scriptures quoted for the phrase 22. R ¶ Reading of Scriptures 568. c Reading is preaching 569. c 574. c. Commoditie of Reading Scriptures in the Church 570. 578. c. Reading engendreth faith 570 Reading of Scriptures a meanes too iudge of Sermons 717 Many conuerted by reading 573. 581 God vseth Reading as a meanes aswell as preaching 574. Reading sometimes preuaileth more than preaching 574 Hardings opinion of Reading Scriptures 578 Christ Read the Scripture 580 Reading is feeding 580 Reading of Scriptures at the Communion 589 ¶ Reasoning frō allegories vncertain pag. 305 ¶ Our reformation wholly misliked pag. 703 A croked rule of reformation 476 ¶ Repentance stretcheth to Idolatrie pag. 145 ¶ The Replie consisteth of other mens collections 207 The Replier Looke T. C. ¶ The word Repugnant what it signifieth 714 ¶ Residence 235. c Howe a Pastor ought to be resident pag. 235 Lawful causes of the non residence of the pastor 236 ¶ Reuenues of Idolaters turned too good vse 274 ¶ Rewardes for learning already attayned necessarie 743 ¶ Riches no impediment to good men 446 ¶ Ridleyes testimonie of the communion Booke 〈◊〉 Ridleyes iudgemēt of Homilies 72 ¶ Ring in Mariage 723 Bucrs iudgement of the mariage Ring 7 3 ¶ Rules of T. C. retourned again t himselfe 6 VVhat it is to Rule vvell 3 4 They vvhich Rule godly do s rue 5 S ¶ Sacramentes ministred by other than ministers 515. 〈◊〉 Some may minister the
vp to the Councell in the time of king Edwarde the sixte the true Copie wherof I haue Surely he was no Adamite but a man of singular iudgement and learning Touching my reading in the Schooles whiche you héere opprobriously obiect vnto me thoughe I knowe that the Uniuersitie had a farre better opinion of me than I deserued and that there were a great many whiche were in all respectes better able to doe that office than my selfe yet I truste I did my duetie and satisfied them What logike I vttered in my Lectures and howe I read I referre to their iudgementes who surely if they suffred me so long to continue in that place augmented the stipende for my sake and were so desirous to haue me still to remayne in that function reading so vnlearnedly as you woulde make the worlde beléeue I dyd may be thoughte either to be without iudgement them selues or else to haue bin very carelesse for that exercise Well I will not speake that whiche I mighte iustly speake by this prouocation of yours For I counte this either an heathenishe or a chyldishe kinde of confuting to fall from the matter to the deprauing of the person God graunt that we bothe may so knowe our giftes and our selues that we may acknowledge them to be his and employ them to the edifying of the Churche not to the disgracing one of another Scientia inflat c. I did knowe that this my booke should come into the handes bothe of the learned and vnlearned and therfore as néere as I could I did frame my selfe to serue them bothe And bicause all or the moste parte of your proofes consiste of these or the lyke kinde of arguments I thought it conuenient to set downe a note of them before my booke and that for the learned sake wherof I do not repent me neither do I thinke that it commeth out of place But to obserue what arte heere is shewed you would gladly knowe you say what place of the fallacions either an argument ab authoritate negatiue is or of negatiues by comparison c. I maruell that you will so openly dally I intitle this treatise A briefe examination of the reasons vsed in the booke c. And afterwards I call them argumentes I doo not call them fallacions whiche notwithstanding I mighte haue done in some respecte but seeing you cauill about words tell me where I call either an argument ab authoritate negatiuè or of negatiues by comparison fallacions Doo you not blushe to trifle on this sorte and to séeke occasion of cauilling in so small matters I am sure that you are not so ignorante in Logike but that you knowe there be many false argumentes whiche be not amongest the fallacions What saye you to an argument à specie negatiuè and suche lyke What say you to an argument ex solis negatiuis or ex solis particularibus or to that that otherwise dothe offende in any moode or figure or to be shorte to suche as be in any place of Logike negatiue or affirmatiue when the nature of the place will not beare it For you knowe that in some places only negatiue reasons hold in some other places only affirmatiue Concerning an argument ab authoritate negatiuè that it is no good argumente Arg. ab autho ritate negatiuè all Logicians confesse neither is he to be thoughte to haue any skill in Logike at all that will denie it Onely the authoritie of the Scripture is to be excepted in matters pertayning to saluation or damnation bicause therein it is perfecte and absolute as I haue declared in my answere to the Admonition Touching the argument of négatiues by comparison which you thinke to Arg. of negatiues by comparison be so straunge it is moste vsuall in the Scriptures and moste consonant to reason when God sayde vnto Samuell 1. Reg. 8. They haue not refused thee but me He ment not absolutely that they had not reiected Samuell but by that one negatiue by comparison he vnderstandeth two affirmatiues that is that they had reiected Samuell and not him alone but chiefly they had reiected God But of this kinde of argument looke the. 2. booke and 12. chapter of worthy Cranmer Archbishop of Canterburie which he writeth of the Sacrament where he answering the obiections of the Papistes out of Chrysostome touching transubstantiation handleth this argument at large and setteth it out by many examples to the whiche place I referre the Reader and you too that you may sée your lacke of discretion in finding faulte where none is Those be but slender answeres to these arguments except you quit your selfe better in the rest of your Replie it had bin mnche safer for your cause to haue still kept silence Io. Whitgifte A briefe examination c. The thirde kynde of argument is called petitio principij whych is Arg. à petitione principij when a man frameth vnto him selfe principles of his owne deuise grounded neither vpon authoritie neither yet vpon substantial reason and then vpon the same will conclude his purpose whiche is vitiosissimum genus argumentandi a very erroneous kynde of reasoning as these men do in vsing these two false principles the one when they say that to be inuented by an Antichristian Pope which was not so inuented the other when they say that nothing may be vsed in the Church of Christ which was inuented by the Pope or vsed in the Popes Churche which can not be true as in sundrie places of the booke I haue declared The selfe same reasons moued the Aërians to forsake the order of the Church and to commaunde their disciples to do the contrarie of that that the Churche did We borrowe good lawes of the Gentiles and we vse the Churches Belles Pulpits and many other things vsed of Papistes c. The fourth kinde of reason is of negatiues by comparison as thys Arg. à negatiuis per come parationem Priestes and Ministers are to be knowne by their doctrine not by their apparell Ergo they ought not to haue distinct apparell from other men This argument followeth not for negatiues by comparison are not simply to be vnderstanded but by the way of comparison And therfore of the former sentence thus we may conclude that the apparell is not to be esteemed as a note of difference in comparison to learning and doctrine and yet a note As when Paule sayth that Christ sent him not to baptise but to preache the Gospel 1. Cor. 1. And God by his Prophet I will haue mercy and not sacrifice Ose. 6. and Mat. 9. The fifte is ab eo quod est non causam vt causam ponere vvhen that is taken for Arg. à non causa pre causa the cause of any thing vvhich is not the cause As when they condemne the booke of Common prayer a prescript forme of seruice bicause as they say it maynteineth an vnlearned or as they terme it a reading ministerie when as
you doe notably sclaunder them and it is already answered If you meane that those are Puritanes or Catharanes whiche doe set foorthe a true and perfecte paterne or platforme of reforming the Churche then the marke of this heresie reacheth vnto those whiche made the booke of common prayer (b) An vntruthe for I do not saye so in any place whiche you saye is a perfecte and absolute rule to gouerne this Churche wherein nothing is wanting or too little nor nothing running ouer nor too muche As for the Catharanes whiche were the same that are otherwise called Nouatians I knowe no suche opinion they had and they whome you charge are as farre from their corruption as you bee Io. Whitgifte You haue sayde vnto me in one place of your booke Quid verba audiam cumfacta videam euen so I saye to you for why will they not come to oure Sermens or to oure Churches why will they not communicate with vs in oure Sacramentes not salute vs in the stréetes nay spitte in our faces and openly reuile vs whye haue they their secrete conuenticles You knowe all this to be true in a number of them I knowe not why they shoulde doe so excepte they thinke them selues to be contaminated by hearing vs preache or by comming to our Churches or by communicating otherwyse with vs. Whiche if they doe it argueth that they persuade them selues not onely of suche an outwarde perfection but of suche an inwarde puritie also that they may as iustly for the same be called Puritanes as the Nouatians The qualities of Nouatus and cause of his heresie were You knowe that the first occasion why Nouatus did separate him selfe from the Churche was bicause he coulde not obtayne the Bishoprike of Rome whiche he ambitiously desired You knowe also that his pretence was bicause the Bishops dyd receyue those into the Churche whiche had fallen in the time of persecution Afterwardes he fell into greater and mo absurdities for commonly suche as once deuide them selues from the Churche fall from errour to errour without staye This Nouatus thoughe he séemed to condemne ambition in all other men yet was he most ambitious him selfe thoughe he by vehement othes denied him selfe to desire a Bishoprike yet did he most gréedily séeke for it though he boasted of more perfection in lyfe and of a more perfecte platforme of a Churche than he thoughte others had yet was it nothing so He was the firste that I reade of that forseeke his Nouatus the first that forsooke his ministerie ministerie and that sayde Se nolle amplius presbyterum esse sed alterius Philosophiae studiosum that he woulde no longer be a Minister but a student in other Philosophie Reade Eusebius in his sixte booke of his Ecclesiasticall historie Cap. 43 and Nicephorus in his sixte booke also and third chapter Surely the storie of Nouatus is worthy to be noted bycause there be so many at these dayes which do not so much differ from him in opinions as they agrée with him in conditions You affirme that I saye The booke of common prayer to be a perfecte and absolute rule to gouerne this Churche wherin nothing is wanting or too little nor nothing running ouer or too muche If I haue sayd any suche thing quote the place that the Reader may consider of it and knowe that you speake the truthe But if I neuer eyther spake or writte any suche thing then are you a false witnesse and I haue to desire the Reader to consider of the reste of your sclaunderous reportes according to the truthe of this I haue learned with Sainct Augustine to giue this reuerence onely to the wryters of Canonicali Scriptures that I thinke none of them to haue The canonicall scriptures are only absolute perfect erred in wryting And I doe firmely beléeue that onely the bookes of the Canonicall Scripture are of that absolutenesse and perfection that nothing maye be taken awaye from them nothing added to them I doe not thinke the Communion booke to be such but that it may admitte alteration I doe not beléeue it to bée so perfecte but that there maye be bothe added to it and taken from it But thys I saye that it is a godly booke withoute any errour in substance of doctrine and nothing in it that I knowe agaynst the worde of God and those imperfections or rather motes that you saye to be in it not to be suche that any godly man oughte to stirre vp any contention in the Churche for them muche lesse to make a schisme and least of all to deuide him selfe from the Churche This is my opinion of that booke whiche vnlesse by learning and good authoritie I iustifie let me haue the blame and shame of it I will not enter into your heartes to iudge what you thinke of your inwarde puritie whiche notwithstanding in comparison you haue in this present place arrogated vnto your selues that very perfection of an outwarde platforme of a Churche whiche you chalenge vnto your selues is one steppe to Nouatianisme and well deserueth the name of Catharisme ¶ Of the authoritie of the Churche in things indifferent Tract 2. Some thinges may be tollerated in the Churche touching order ceremonies discipline and kinde of gouernmente not expressed in the word of God Chap. 1. the first Diuision Admonition SEing that nothing in thys mortall lyfe is more diligently to bee soughte for and carefully to bee looked vnto a 2. Reg. 23. 3. Chro. 17. 2. Chro. 29. 30. 31. Psal. 132. 2. 3. 4. Mat. 21. 12. Ioh. 2. 15. than the restitution of true religion and reformation of Gods Churche it shall bee your partes dearely beloued in this present Parliamente assembled as muche as in you lyeth to promote the same and to employe your whole laboure and studie not onely in abandoning all Popishe remnauntes bothe in ceremonies and regimente but also in bringing in and placing in Gods Churche those thinges onely whiche the Lorde him selfe b Deut. 4. 2. Deut. 12. 32. in hys worde commandeth Bicause it is not mought to take paynes in taking away euill c Psal. 37. 27. Rom. 12. 9. but also to be occupied in placing good in the steade thereof Nowe bicause many men see not all thinges and the d 1. Cor. 2. 14 worlde in thys respecte is maruellously blinded it hathe beene thoughte good to profer to your godly consyderations a true platforme of a Churche reformed to the ende that it beeing layde before your eyes to beholde the greate vnlykenesse betweene it and thys our Englishe Churche you maye learne eyther with perfecte e Psal. 31. 6. Psal. 139. 22. hatred to deteste the one and with singular loue to embrace and carefull endeuour to plante the other or else to be without excuse before f Iohn 15. 21. the maiestie of our God who for the discharge of our conscience manifestation of his truthe hathe by vs reuealed vnto you at this presente
so good a grace in them Chap. 5. the. 10. Diuision T. C. Pag. 56. Sect. vlt. And if there bee anye other argumentes touchyng anye of these poyntes in other places whiche I haue not gathered together into one the faulte is in thys that I coulde not bestowe so muche tyme in makyng a harmonie of the thynges whiche are at so greate dyscorde and then that whyche is lefte oute shall bee answered in place where I shall fynde it Nowe lette vs see M. Doctors 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and second nauigation touching apparel whether it bee any happier or haue any better successe than the fyrst Io. Whitgifte A proper excuse if any thing fall out in the whole booke whiche you can not answere as there be diuers which you haue not answered Diuers things concerning apparell in other places of the Ansvvere Chap. 6. the fyrst Diuision Admonition Nowe we muste haue Surplisses deuised by Pope Adrian Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 105. Sect. 1. 2. THe impurities you fynde in the administration of Baptisme bee these Surplis c. Touching the Surplis and suche lyke apparell I haue spoken before sufficiently the fyrste inuentor of it whyche you say to be Pope Adrian dot he make it neyther better nor woorse and yet it was vsed long before Adrians tyme neyther can you proue hym to be the fyrst inuentor thereof It is certayne that such kynde of vesture hath bene vsed in the ministration of the Sacramentes long before any corruption of doctrine tooke place in the Churche as it appeareth both by Hierome in his fyrst booke Aduersus Whyte garmente vsed in the ministration Pelagi where he maketh manifeste mention of a whyte garmente vsed in the Administration of Sacrifice by the Byshoppe Prieste and Deacon And also Chrysostome Hom. 6. to the people of Antioche who speaketh of the lyke garmente worne in the Churche Those that answered the examiner do but chyldishly cauill at these two places whyche in deede bee playne of themselues and euident and so is that of Hieromes also vpon the. 44. of Ezechiell The religion of God hath one habite in the ministration and an other in cōmon vse and lyfe Reade the place considerately and it shall easyly appeare that Hierome meaneth as well of Christian Ministers as of Iewishe Priestes But of the vse of this and other apparel prescribed in this Church to be worne by ministers I haue spoken partly before and am ready to speake more as occasion shall be offered In the meane tyme the Surplis is not of the substance of Baptisme neyther required as necessarie to the Administration therof but as comely and decent T. C. Page 57. Sect. 1. In the. 105. page M. Doctour to proue the vse of the Surplice to drawe out his booke into some competent volume borroweth certayne places of the examiner for answere wherevnto I will referre the reader to that whiche is answered vnto the examination as to a full and sufficient answere wherein I will reste and when M. Doctor hathe proued that whiche he sayeth that it is but a chyldish cauill he shall then heare further In the meane season it is but a slender replie to so learned an answere that proueth bothe out of other authours and out of those same whiche the examiner citeth that by a white garmente is mente a comely apparell and not slouenly to saye it is but a chyldish cauill whych a D. of Diumitie and of fortie yeares of age can not answere The place of Hierome vppon the 44. of Ezechiell the more it bee consydered the more shall appeare the truthe of the Answere Io. Whitgifte You haue not answered one worde of this but only shifted it of I purpose not A whyte garmente in the ministration vsed in Hieromes tyme. Hiero. lib. 1. aduers. Pelagi l 44. Ezecb. at this tyme to vnrippe the answere to the Examiner except you had taken the paines to set it downe Both the places of Hierome are to be séene in the one he sheweth that in the administration of the Sacramentes the Bishoppe Prieste and Deacon didde weare a white vesture And in the other he sayeth that the Religion of GOD hathe one habite in the ministration and an other in the common vse and lyfe Ioyne these two places together and sée whether the woords of Hierome be manyfest or no. And that it may euidently appeare that at this tyme wherein Hierome lyued the maner was to weare white garments in the tyme of diuine seruice and Administration of Sacramentes I will recite the wordes of the fourthe Councell of Carthage at the which there were present 214. Bishops among whome was S. Augustine Diaconus tempore oblationis tantùm vellectionis alba induatur Let the Deacon weare a whyte Con. Carth. 4. Can. 41. vesture only in the tyme of the oblation and reading Canone 41. And this may be a sufficient confutation to what soeuer is spoken of these places of Hierome in the answere to the Examiner Chap. 6. the second Diuision Admonition And as for the apparell though we haue ben long borne in hande and yet are that it is for order and decencie commaunded yet we knowe and haue proued that there is neither order nor com ynesse nor obedience in vsyng it There is no order in it but confusion no comlynesse but deformitie no obedience but disobedience both against God and the Prince Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 236. the last lyne but one Pag. 237. Sect. 1. TO all this also I haue answered before I meane to all the reasons here alleadged as for bare wordes they preuayle with none but suche as haue respecte to the persons not to the matter And therfore I omit these wordes of pleasure which you vse when you saye that in this apparell there is no order but confusion no comelynesse but deformitie no obedience but disobedience both against God and the Prince It is not euery priuate mannes parte to define what is order and comlynesse in externall matters being indifferente but is proper to Disobedience to the prince in ciuill matters is disobedience to God them only to whom God hath committed the gouernmente of hys church whose orders and lawes not beeing against the woorde of God whosoeuer doth disobey disobeyeth both God and the Prince as you do in disobeying the Princes lawes in these matters Io. Whitgifte Nothing is sayd to this although some part of it necessarily requireth an answer Chap. 6. the third Diuision Admonition We maruell that they coulde espie in the laste synode that a gray Amyse whiche is but a garment of dignitie should be a garment as they say defyled with superstition and yet that copes caps surplesses tippets and suche lyke baggage the preaching signes of Popishe priesthoode the Popes creatures kepte in the same forme to this ende to bring dignitie and reuerence to the ministers and sacraments should be reteyned still and not abolished Answere to the Admonition Pag. 237. Sect. 2. It
(b) These examples proue not the purpose Noah which was a preacher vnto the olde worlde of the will of God was ordeyned also of God to make the Arke whiche was a Sacramente and seale of his preachyng touchyng the destruction of the worlde And (b) These examples proue not the purpose Abraham whom the Lorde would haue to be the Doctour of his churche whiche was then in his familie was also commaunded to minister the Sacrament of circumcision vnto his familie The (b) These examples proue not the purpose Priestes and Leuites whiche were appoynted to teache the people were also appoynted to sacrifice and to minister other sacramentes in the Church Lykewise the same Prophets which God stirred vp to preach he also ordeyned to confirme the same by signes Sacraments The (b) These examples proue not the purpose same may be also drawne throughout the new Testament as vnto euery of the twelue and afterwarde to the seuentie power was giuen bothe to preache the Gospell and also to confirme wyth signes and miracles whiche were seales of their Doctrine And (b) These examples proue not the purpose Sainct Paule by the commaundement that our Sauiour Christe gaue hym to preache vndertooke also to baptise although there were no expresse woordes that licenced him therevnto for hee knewe right well that it was the perpetuall ordinaunce of God that the same shoulde bee the ministers of the worde and Sacramentes Wherevpon it followeth that forasmuche as women maye not prcache the Gospell no not by the lawes of the realine that they ought not to minister Baptisme Io. Whitgifte My reason alleadged in my Answere to the Admonition why this place doth not make any necessarie conclusion agaynst the baptizyng by Women is not answered but there is a newe collection made of the same place whyche is of as great force as the other for you myght as well conclude thus Ergo Pastors maye not preache bycause Pastours bée not Apostles I speake of the Argumente not of the thyng For I woulde not haue the Scriptures abused to confirme no not a truthe least it make men the bolder to wreast them at their pleasure and for the confirming of errour M. Zuinglius in hys booke De Baptisme sayth that Christe did Zuinglius not in this place of Mathewe institute baptisme nor prescribe eyther tyme place or any other circumstance perteyning to the same I haue proued before that the administration of the Sacraments may bée committed to some to whome the publike preachyng of the worde is not committed and youre examples here alleadged doe not proue the contrarie excepte you wyll Tract 9. ca. 1. sect 15. haue vs to grounde poyntes of doctrine vppon bare examples whych if we should doe many inconueniences would followe yea euen baptizyng by women whiche you so greately mislyke A facto ad ius or à non facto ad non ius bée the vsuall reasons of the Anabaptistes but of no force The example of Noah helpeth you not except you will either allegorie or proue y t the minister of the worde may make Sacramēts bicause Noah made the Arke 〈◊〉 Arke can not be proprely termed a sacrament in y t signification y t ours be for it had no promise of eternal life annexed vnto it neither was it any seale of gods promise but a meanes to saue Noah and his family from perishing by the waters and a tipe and figure of the Church of Christ as you haue before confessed Pag. 63. Sect. 1 Your examples which follow although some of them be very vnapt for miracles be no sacraments neyther yet euery kind of signes and wonders may as examples T. C. omitting the purpose proueth that which is not denied shewe that the administration of the sacramentes was committed to suche as were preachers of the word But they cannot proue that it was onely committed vnto them and to no other It is not required of you to proue whither he that maye preach may also administer the sacraments but whither it be of necessitie that none shoulde be admitted to minister the sacraments except the same also be admitted to preach the contrary whereof I haue shewed before Chap. 3. the. 3. Diuision Ansvver to the Admonition Pag. 80. Sect. 1. The second place you do alleadge is 1. Cor. 14. where Paule sayth it is a shame for Women to speake in the congregation Paule saith not it is a shame for women to speake at home in priuate houses for women may instruct their families yea and they may speake also in the Congregation in tyme of necessitie if there be none else there that can or wyll preache Chryste and hereof we haue examples T. C. Pag. 110. Lin. 13. Sect. 1. But M. Doctor riseth vp and saith that a woman in time of necessitie and where there is none other that eyther can or will preache maye preache the Gospell in the Church This is straunge doctrine and such as strengtheneth the Anabaptists hands and sauoureth stronger that ways than any one thing in all the Admonition which is so often condemned of Anabaptisme His first reason to proue it is that there are examples thereof When we alleadge the examples (a) How vayne this bragge is hath bin shewed Tract 3. of all the churches of the Apostles times to proue the election of the minister by the Churche and in other cases which are generall examples approued and executed by the Apostles contrary to no commaundement nor institution of God yea and as hath bin proued according to the commaundement of God M. Doctor gyueth vs our answer in a worde that examples proue not now that the question is to make good womens preaching in the Church examples I will not say of all churches but of no one Church only of a few singular persons not according to the 1. Cor. 14. 1. Tim. 2. commaundement of the word of God but cleane contrary to the prescript word of God I say now examples and such singular examples are good proofes and strong arguments Io. Whitgifte In what poynt doth he strengthen the Anabaptists If you coulde haue told I trust it should not haue bin kept in silence I haue charged the Authors of the Admonition with nothing but I haue shewed my author for it deale you with me in like manner and spare not otherwise your wordes do but sauoure choler Examples withoute What force is in exāples preceptes make no generall or necessary rule but they sometimes declare what was done and what may be done extraordinarily vpon like occasion and the same circumstances if they be commendable examples Women were the first that preached Christes resurrection A woman was the Math. 28. first that preached Christ in Samaria Io. 4. and yet vndoutedly none of these dyd Io. 20. contrary to the prescript word of God Women may not speake ordinarily in the Io. 4. congregation nor chalenge any suche function vnto themselues but vpon
law change the order which he hath set in raysing vp certayne women partly to the shame of men and to humble them partly to let them vnderstand that he can if he would want their ministerie yet it is not lawfull for vs to draw that into example and to follow it or that for as much as he breaketh the law which is not subiect vnto it and which he made not for himselfe that therefore we may breake the law wherevnto we be subiect and to whome it is giuen But we must go in the broad high way of the commaundement and of the ordinarie vsage of God in gouerning his Church and not in the byepath of certayne singular examples which haue bin in dtuers ages And as often as God hath vsed this extraordinarie meanes of the ministerie of women so often also hath he confirmed their calling eyther by miracle or some wonderfull issue or with some other singular note and marke whereby he hathe made their calling otherwise strange and monstrous most certayne and vndoubted to all men Io. Whitgifte There be other examples also besides these yet these be sufficient to proue any thing that I haue spoken touching this matter he that wel cōsidereth what is written of Mary the Sister of Moyses Num. 12. or of Olda 2. Reg. 22. will not doubte whether they spake openly in the congregation or no but you will not sticke vpon thys poynte And in your seconde aunswere I agrée with you in thys that we must make no generall rule of these particular examples and that women may not presume to preach in the congregation except they be extraordinarily called therevnto and haue certaine and sure signes of their calling And surely I muse what you meane to spend so muche laboure about this matter wherein there is no controuersie I might say vnto you as it hathe pleased you to saye vnto me that you haue some old rusty notes which you would gladly vtter and you know not how otherwise to make marchandise of them than by picking suche a quarell to vtter them Chap. 3. the. 8. Diuision T. C. Pag. 111. Sect. 1. There is a greater difficultie than M. Doctor mentioneth in the words of S. Paule where 1. Cor. II. he sayth a oman praying or prophesing ought to be vayled and haue hir head couered in whyche words it seemeth that the Apostle licenceth a woman to prophesie so that she do it with hir head couered but to him that shall diligently consider the place it shall appeare that the women of Corinth did passe the boundes of modestie and of shamefastnesse two ways whereof one was that they came into the congregation contrary to the custome of those countries with their heads and faces vncouered another was that they also tooke vpon them to speake in the congregation bothe which faults S. Paule condemned but in their seueral and proper places Although therfore speaking against the abuse of vncouering their head he doth not condemne their boldnesse in teaching yet he did not therefore approue it the confutation whereof he reserued to a more commodious place Io. Whitgifte To what ende bring you in this saying of S. Paule I do not remember that I haue at any time vsed it for any proofe and yet you haue obiected more than you can well answer Howbeit bycause it perteineth not to improue any thing that I affirme I will not examine your answer and yet not yours but M. Caluins nor trouble the Reader with friuolous and vayne digressions Chap. 3. the. 9. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 80. Sect. 2. 3. If women do baptise they baptise in priuate houses not in the congregation Surely you are able to marre a good matter for lacke of skilfull handling T. C. Pag. 111. Sect. 12. But sayth he if women do baptise it is in priuate houses I haue shewed before that they may not baptise at all therefore not in priuate houses besides that that I haue in the Reply vnto the section in the one and twenty page shewed how it is not lawfull neyther to preach the word nor to minister the sacraments in priuate corners Io. Whitgifte I answer to their argumente and go not aboute to confirme the baptising by women I saye thys argumente followeth not Saincte Paule forbiddeth them to speake in the congregation Ergo they may not baptise for they baptise in priuate houses not in publike places and Saincte Paule dothe bid them to speake in priuate places Whatsoeuer yon haue replyed vnto I haue there answered where you haue replyed and it is manifest that both the word may be preached and the sacraments ministred in priuate places vpon iust occasion Chap. 3. the. 10. Diuision T. C. Pag. 111. Sect. 2. 3. 4. For the which matter of not ministring the sacraments in priuate houses to the Authours of the Admonition citing the cleuenth Chapter of the first epistle vnto the Corinthtans M. Doctor answereth that he reproueth the prophanation of the supper by banquetting and contempt of their brethren and exhorteth to tarrie one for another But what is this to the purpose we aske not M. Doctor the interpretation of this place as we do not of all the rest which he interpreteth where there is no occasion in the world to interprete The places be interpreted to shew how farre out of square they be alledged in the Admonitiō them being of themselues very cleare and the interpretation which is brought neuer almost making any thing for the solution of that which is obiected which I desire the Reader to marke throughout his whole booke For what if S. Paule reproue the prophanation of the supper of the Lorde doth it follow therefore that he doth not giue to vnderstand that the sacrament shoulde be administred in a common assemblie What if he exhort to tarrie one for another therefore doth he not dehort from celebrating of the sacrament in a priuate house And surely me thinke you cannot be so ignoraunte as you make your selfe that you shoulde not vnderstand their argumente and therefore I thinke you do rather dissemble it as you do in diuers other places for al men may easily perceiue that as Saint Paule opposeth the supper of the Lord to the cōmon supper his banquet to the common banquet so he opposeth there manifestly the Churche and congregation vnto the priuate house and declareth that as the common supper or banquet ought to be kept at their houses so the Lords supper his banquet ought to be celebrated in the congregation Io. Whitgifte I thinke indéede that M. Doctors interpretations trouble you shrewdly for they detect much of your vanitie and make manifest the lacke of discretion and learning in the authours of the Admonition I say lacke of discretion and learning for otherwise to euidently and so oft to abuse the scriptures were great dishonestie or rather impietie If I haue missed in interpreting or wrōgfully accused them why do not you make it knowne as occasion is
dothe not permit Deacons to minister the supper of the Lorde and that by way of allowing of the booke and here proueth that the Deacons dyd minister the sacrament of the Supper and that also as a thyng whyche he dothe allowe of But to let that passe I beseeche thee good Reader marke what a (*) An 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cauill ministring of the Supper thys is whiche Iustine maketh mention of and note wyth what conscience M. Doctor handleth this cause Iustine sayth that after the Scriptures are read and preached of and prayers made bread and wyne and water was broughte foorth and that the minister made prayers and thankesgiuing in the hearing of the people whych is that whyche the Euangelistes call the blessing and hath beene of later times called the consecration and after that the people were partakers of them that then thys beeing done the Deacons doe carry of that whych was left vnto those whych were not present for that corruption of sending the Communion vnto the houses was then in the Churche agaynst whych I haue before spoken now if to carry to a priuate house the bread and wyne whyche was blessed or set aparte by prayers and by obeying the institution of Christ by the minister be to minister the sacrament of the Supper than Serapions boy of whome mention is made by Eusebius ministred the sacrament For Serapion beeing sicke as Li. 6. ca. 43 I haue before shewed and sending hys boy to the minister for the sacrament receyued the same at the hands of his boy for that the minister beeing sicke could not come hym selfe So by M. Doctors reason Serapions boy ministred the sacrament Io. Whitgifte Where dothe M. Doctor saye that Deacons dyd minister the Lordes supper set downe his wordes Is there no ende of your falsifying and vntrue gathering Let the Reader compare the wordes that I haue recited out of Iustinus Martyr wyth your collection and then iudge of the honestie and sinceritie of your dealing The Admonition so speaketh of Deacons as thoughe their office in the primitiue Church had béene onely to gather and to distribute almes This I denye and proue that Deacons dyd then also preache baptise and distribute the bread and the wyne in the administration of the Lordes Supper I no where saye neyther doe I beléeue that they dyd at any tyme minister the Lordes Supper and you mighte haue vnderstoode that to distribute the bread and wyne to the people in the administration of the Supper is not to minister the Sacrament of the Supper For these Deacons of whome Iustinus Martyr speaketh yea and Serapions boy also dyd the one but they dyd not the other and therefore the spirite of cauilling hathe dryuen you to thys surmise The. 5. Diuision T. C. Pag. 129. Lin. 11. A man would not thinke that one that hath beene the Queenes Masesties publike professor of Many wordes bestowed in the confutation of that whyche is not affirmed diuinitie in Cambridge should not know to distinguish put a difference betweene ministring the sacrament helping to distribute the bread the cuppe of the sacrament And if M. Doctor could not learne this in bookes yet he mighte haue eyther seene it or at least heard tell of it in all reformed Churches almost where the Deacons do assist the minister in helping of him to distribute the cup and in some places also the bread for the quicker and speedier dispatche of the people beeing so many in number that if they should al receyue the bread the cup at the ministers hand they should not make an end in eyght hours which by that assistance may be finished in two whych is that that M. Caluine sayth For he sayth the deacons did reach the cup maketh no mention of the bread And if this be to minister the sacramēt then they that cut the loafe in peeces they that fetch y e wine for the supper they that poure it foorth from greater vessels into glasses cuppes or whosoeuer aydeth any thing in this action doe minister the sacrament than the whych thing there can be nothing more ridiculous Io. Whitgifte A man would not haue thought that one which hath ambitiously desired to be the Quéenes Maiesties diuinitie reader yet pretēdeth such puritie simplicitie would vpon any occasion muche lesse of none vse suche contēmptuous deriding spéeches towards one not so muche his inferiour But I passe all ouer quietly desiring only the Reader to take these such like notes of your mortification modestie playne dealing And marke I pray you howe many words he spendeth in this place to confute me which speake no otherwise than he would haue me to speake Surely it is very like that when you were answering this parte the olde griefe conceyued for missing the diuinitie Lecture came into your minde so much ouercame you that you coulde not vnderstande what I had sayd otherwise it coulde not haue béene possible that a man in his right wittes should so farre haue béene ouershot For marke my saying that you confute and you shall finde it to differ very little in wordes but in effecte nothing at all from that which you in confutation héereof affirme to be the vse in reformed Churches The. 6. diuision Admonition Now it is the first steppe to the ministerie nay rather a meere order of Priesthoode Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 119. Lin. 2. It may well be counted the first steppe to the ministerie as it hathe beene from the Apostles tyme and S. Paule ioyneth them togither 1. Tim. 3. T. C. Page 129. Sect. 1. In the ende M. Doctor to shut vp thys matter sayth that it is the first steppe to the ministery and so ioyned of S. Paule in the thyrd chapter and fyrst Epistle to Timothie But what a reason is thys to be a Deacon is the fyrst steppe to the ministery therfore the Deacon may preach minister the sacraments when as the contrary rather followeth For if it be a steppe to the ministery then it is not the ministery but dyffereth from it and so ought not to doe the thyngs that belong to the minister Io. Whitgifte You are but disposed to counterfeite I must giue you leaue so to doe be content But I trust it will turne smally to your credite The wordes of the Admonition be these Now it is the fyrst steppe to the ministery nay rather a meere order of Priesthoode The which words I answere in this maner It may well be counted the first step to the ministerie as it hath bin from the Apostles time and S. Paul ioyneth them togither 1. Tim. 3. Now let the Reader consider whether I vse this for an argument or no to proue that a Deacon may preach minister the sacraments If I should so haue concluded the argument might haue bin proued for preaching and baptising but séeing my Answere is direct to the words of the 〈◊〉 in an other matter it is too much for you thus
I know But let vs a little better cōsider your assertions and marke your drifte Page 34. you saye that there are no whoremongers nor Pag. 34. Sect. 1 drunkardes in the churche that are knowem bycause the churche doth excommunicate them wherby you seme to runne headlong into this heresye of the Anabaptistes that that is not the Churche of Christe in the whiche are knowen drunkardes and whoremongers no excommunication vsed against them The whiche heresye is well and learnedlye Caluine Bullinger confuted by M. Caluine in his booke against the Anabap. and by M. Bullinger likewyse Lib. 6. cap. 10. aduersus Anabap. Moreouer this your assertion séemeth to bring in rebaptisation For if whoremongers The assertion of the Replier tendeth to rebaptisation drunkardes and such lyke wycked persones by excommunication be so cut of from the Churche that their children may not be baptised then must it followe that their baptisme is cut of also which if it be true howe can they vpon repentance be admitted againe except they be rebaptised and what is this else but to make baptisme to be iterated as the Lorde ▪ supper is when as by the consent of all the Churches Baptisme once ministred remaineth per petuall there is but one baptisme wherewith it is sufficient once to be Christened séeing that baptisme once receyued doth endure for euer as a perpetuall signe of our adoption And how can you allowe the baptisme of heretikes to be good if you disallowe the baptising of their children that be excommunicated may an heretike excommunicated baptise and is that baptisme good and may not the children of hym that is excommunicated receyue the sacrament of baptisme can any faulte of the parentes hauing once receyued the scale of the couenant seclude their chyldren from rcceyuing the same seale you haue neyther example nor precept in scripture to iustifie your assertion with it is against the nature of the sacrament the practise of the Church and the whole consent of learned wryters some fewe excepted which erred in rebaptisation and yet you boldely here set it downe without any further proofe at all S. Augustine in his booke Contraepist Parme. reasoneth wholy to the contrary for there he proueth that heretikes whiche cut of them selues from the Churche do neyther Heretikes loose not their baptisme amittere baptismum nor ius dandi baptismum that is neither leese their baptisme nor authoritie to baptise and therevpon concludeth against rebaptisation whiche must néedes followe if eyther of the other be taken away The Donatistes them selues were at the length compelled to confesse that heretikes deuided from the churche did not amitte e bapt smum leese their baptisme And in the same booke August hath this generall sentence That the faulte of such heretikes is in cutting of them selues from the churche which may be corrected by returning againe to the churche non in sacramentis quae vbicunque sunt ipsa vera sunt not in the sacramentes which wheresoeuer they are are true This being so as it is then are you very nere to Donatisme nay farre beyonde it in The Replier nere to Donatis e. saying that the chyldren of the heretykes and suche as by excommunication are cut of from the Churche maye not be baptised Surelye if the Parentes beyng heretikes and cut of from the Churche do notwithstanding Retinere baptismum keepe styll their baptisme as Saint Augustine sayeth I sée not howe by any meanes you can iustifie the secluding of theyr chyldren from being baptysed or if otherwyse I can not sée howe a Papiste beyng conuerted can bee receyued into the Churche without he bée anewe baptysed or howe suche chyldren of knowen Papistes and excommunicate persones as haue bene baptised in this Churche of Englande or else ◠here from the beginning of the Gospell to this daye can be coumpted Christians vnlesse they be rebaptised And concernyng Papistes whome you haue denyed to bée in the Churche Pag. 34. Sect. vii and to whose chyldren also you here denye baptisme I wyll aske you but this one question what you thynke of all those whiche are not onelye chyldren to professed and knowen Papistes but baptised also in the Romishe Churche for if the chyldren of knowen Papistes may not be baptysed what shall wée saye of our selues and of our Parentes and predecessours who all or the moste of them were professed Papistes is not this the grounde of Rebaptisation and Anabaptisme But that the Reader maye the better vnderstande your erroure and the rather beléeue it to be an errour in dée I wyll set downe M. Beza his opinion of this matter from whome you are lothe I am sure to be thought to dissent In his booke of Epistles Epist. 10 answering this question whether the infantes of suche as are excommunicated Beza li. Epist. Epist. 10. may be baptised and in whose fayth when as they of whome they are begotten are not members of the Churche determineth thus God forbidde that we should iudge all one and a lyke of all suche as are not called the members of the Churche for there are foure kyndes of men farre differing among them selues One is of them whiche neyther by election neyther in them selues are by anye meanes the members of Christe whome we cal by the worde of God reprobate and the vessels of anger and appointed to destruction although many of them sometime in apparance that is in outwarde profession yea and a certayne semblance of faythe continuing for a tyme wherewith they mocke both them selues and other are reckened among the members of the Churche of whome Iohn sayeth if they had bene of vs they would haue taryed with vs. The seconde is of those whiche are chosen in Christe by eternall election and therefore are the members of Christe yet by purpose onelye not in deede in whiche sense Paule sayth that he was seuered from his mothers wombe when as notwithstanding hee was a long tyme the member of Sathan persecuting Christ and in an other place sayeth that grace was giuen vs in Christe before euerlasting tymes and agayne that God loued vs when we were his enemies In the thyrde kynde wee counte them that bothe by election and in deede are the sonnes of God bycause as the Apostle sayth they are ruled by the spirite of God Finally in the fourth place wee recken those who whereas they appertayne to the election of God and be engraffed in Christ yet bycause hauing fallen in some thing as men often doe they be an offence to the other members therefore least the wound should bee deadlye whiche Sathan and the fleshe hath gyuen them neede a more sharpe remedye and are therfore excommunicated or delyuered to Sathan not that they should peryshe for it is not possible that they should peryshe whiche are the members of Christe But that godlye sorowefulnesse may cause repentance eyther that their fleshe that is the olde man dying their spirite may be saued in the daye of the
churche is not able to fynde a Curate as he termeth hym and a Deacon I haue before shewed intreatyng of the Seniors that the churches in the Apostles tymes myght best haue sayd this beyng poore and persecuted although I see not why the churche may not haue a Deacon or Deacons if mo be needefull with as small charges as they may haue a collector or collectors Io. Whitgifte It is the Admonition that sayeth Euery paryshe cannot be at that caste to haue bothe Wherevpon I doe but aske this question why they require them both in euery paryshe if euerye paryshe cannot bee at the coste to haue them both Bylike you make small accompte of the Admonition in that you read it not or else you haue forgotten that this question is demaunded vpon their confession But in deede I am of that opinion too and haue before answered your obiection of the Churches in the Apostles tymes as for our Collectors they be suche as put not the Churche to one halfepenye charge so could not your Deacons do Chap. 1. the. 8. Diuision Admonition For they (u) Pontifi tit The ordring of deacons may baptise in the presence of a Byshop or priest or in their absence if necessitie so requyre minister the other Sacrament lykewyse reade the holy Scriptures and homilies in the congregation instructe the youth in the Catechisme and also preache if he be commaunded by the Byshop Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 119. Sect. 2. I knowe not what you meane by your Ponti tit in the margent of your booke but if you meane the booke entituled the forme and māner of making and consecrating Byshops c. nowe allowed in this Churche of Englande then do you vntruely reporte it for there is no mention of baptising in the presence of a Bishop or Priest neyther yet of ministring the other Sacramente in their absence if necessitie require onely the booke sayeth that a Deacon may baptise or preache if he be thervnto admitted by the Byshop and that he may so doe by the worde of God I haue proued before As for reading the holye Scriptures and Homelies in the Congregation also for instructing the youth in the Catechisme who doubteth but that a Deacon may doe them Admonition The Deaconshyp (y) 1. Tim. 3. 8. must not be confounded with the ministerie nor the Collectours for the poore may not vsurpe the Deacons office but he that hath an (z) Rom. 12. 7. 1. Cor. 7. 20 office must looke to his office and euery man must keepe hymselfe within the bondes and limites of his owne vocation Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 126. Sect. 2. Neither doe we confounde them and yet Paule in the place by you quoted in the margent speaketh not one worde of confounding or not confounding these offices So the poore be prouided for it forceth not whether prouision be made by Deacons or by Collectours by the one it may be well done by the other it cannot be done in all places as the state is nowe But shew any Scripture to proue that the poore must onely be prouided for by Deacons else not Io. Whitgifte Nothing answered to this ¶ Of the offices of Widowes and their continuance Chap. 2. T. C. Pag. 153. Sect. 2. There remayneth to speake of the Widowes which were godly poore women in the church aboue the age of three score yeares for the auoyding of all suspition of euill whiche myght ryse y sclaunderous tongues it they had bene yonger These as they were nouryshed at the charges of the churche being poore so did they serue the churche in attending vpon poore straungers and the poore whiche were sicke in the churche whereof they were widowes (*) This will not agree with the doctrine you taught before Pag. 1. 41. Now although there is not so great vse of these widowes with vs as there was in those places where the churches were first founded and in that tyme wherein this order of widowes was instituted parte of the whiche necessitie grewe both by the multitude of straungers through the persecution and by the great heare of those easte countryes wherevpon the washing and supplyng of their feete was required yet to so muche as there are poore which are sicke in euery churche I do not see howe a better and more conuenient order can be deuised for the attendaunce of them in their syckenesse and other infirmities than this which sainct Paule apoynteth that there should be if there can bee any gotten godly poore widowes of y e age which S. Paule apointeth which should attend vpon such For it there be any such poore wydowes of that age destitute of all frendes it is manifest that she must needes iyue of the charge of the churche and seing she must needes doe so it is better she should doe some duty for it vnto the churche agayne than the churche should be at a newe charge to fynde others to attende vpon those which are sycke and destitute of kepers seing that there can be none so fitte for that purpose as those women which saynt Paule doth there describe so that I conclude that (*) This condition cānot agree with so precise cōmaundement as you haue made it before if such may be gotten we ought also to keepe that order of widowes in the churche styll I knowe that there be learned men which thinke otherwyse but I stande vpon the authoritie of Gods worde and not vpon the opinions of men be they neuer so wel learned and if the matter also should be tried by the iudgement of men I am able to shewe the iudgement of as learned as this age hath brought forth which thinketh that the institution of widowes is perpetuall and ought to bee where it may be had and where such widowes are founde Indeede they are more rare nowe than in the Apostles tymes For then by reason of the persecution those whiche had the gifte of continencie did abstayne from mariage after the death of their husbandes for that the sole lyfe was an easyer estate and lesse daungerous and chargeable when they were dryuen to flye than the estate of those which were maryed Io. Whitgifte Here you are taken in your owne trappe and fayne you would wrynge your The Replie tripped and caught in his owne nette Pag. 141. selfe out if you could tell which waye for if all thinges conteyned in S. Paule his first Epistle to Timothie bee perpetuall and must be kept vnder the great charge that be gaue vnto Timothie in the sixt chapter as you haue before affirmed then of necessitie the churche must needes still reteyne wydowes You knowe not in the worlde howe to auoyde this absurditie and therefore some tymes you saye that nowe there is not so great vse of them with vs as there was in those places where the churches were first founded c. and by and by you beginne to call that backe and saye that you do not see howe a better and more conuenient
godly and true saying that Christe hathe sanctified all waters vsed in Baptysyng to the mysticall washyng awaye of synne not ascrybing or attributyng washyng awaye of synne to the externall elemente anye otherwyse than instrumentallye or in anye other respecte than for the similitude that Sacramentes haue with the thynges whereof they bee Sacramentes for wee knowe that wycked men maye receyue these externall signes and yet remaine the members of Sathan It is certainly true that the mysticall washing away of sinne is proper to the worke God in the bloud of Christ and for that purpose you might haue alledged much more playner and directer places of Scripture than moste of these whiche you haue noted in your margent but I thinke your meaning is not therefore to condemne the outwarde signes and Sacraments as the heretikes called Messalians did Admonition They pray that all men may be saued Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 202. Sect. 3. You say we pray that all men may be saued we do so indeede and what can Prayer that all men may be saued 〈◊〉 good you alledge why we should not so do S. Paule 1. Tim. 2. sayth I exhort therefore that first of all supplications prayers intercessions and giuing of thankes be made for all men c. And adding the reason he sayth For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Sauiour vvho vvill that all men shall be saued and come vnto the knovvledge of the truth The Apostle doth here will vs in plaine words to pray for all men euen that they may be saued for there vnto tende the wordes following Io. Whitgifte To this is nothing answered Chap. 7. the. 2. Diuision Admonition The thirtéenth In all their order of Seruice p 1. Co. 14. 16 there is no edification according to the rule of the Apostle but confusion They tosse the Psalmes in most places like tennese balles the people some standing some walking some talking some reading some praying by themselues attend not to the Minister He againe posteth it ouer as fast as he can gallop for eyther he hath two places to serue or else there are some (*) Games of Sodome games to be played in the after noone as lying for the whetstone heathnish dauncing for the ring a Beare or a Bull to be bayted or else Iacke an apes to ride on horsebacke or an Enterlude to be played and if no place else can bee gotten it must be done in the Church c. Now the people sit now they stande vp when the olde Testament is read or the lessons they make no reuerence but when the Gospell commeth then they (*) Standing at the Gospell came from Anastatius the Pope in An. 404. all stande vp For why they thinke that to be of greatest authoritie and are ignorant that the Scriptures came from one spirite When Iesus is named then off goeth the cap and downe goeth the knees with suche a scraping on the grounde that they cannot heare a good while after so that the worde is hindered but when any other names of God are mētioned they make no curtesie at all as though the names of God were not equall or as though all reuerence ought to be giuen to the sillables We speake not of ringing when Mattens is done and (*) Accidentall abuses other abuses incident bicause we shall be answered that by the booke they are not mainteyned onely we desire to haue a booke to reforme it Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 204. Sect. 1. 205. Sect. 1. 2. This is a slaunderous vntruth And the. 1. Cor. 14. abused to A slaunder of the Communion booke confirme it Whatsoeuer S. Paule requireth in that place is vsed in that booke of Seruice for first the whole Seruice is in a tongue knowne as S. Paule there requyreth that the people may vnderstand say Amen Then are the Scriptures read ▪ the Sacraments ministered according to Christes owne institution those that bee Godly disposed persons know what a manifest vntruth this is that you here vtter But mad men women and children must haue their wordes c. If by tossing of Psalmes you meane the singing of them alternatìm then do you disallow that which is both commendable and of great antiquitie as it appeareth in an Epistle that Basilius Magnus did wryte to the Ministers in Neocaesaria where he sheweth the selfe same order of singing Psalmes to be then vsed in the Church that we vse at this day If by tossing of Psalmes like tennise balles you meane the ouer hastie reading or singing of them it is indeede to be misliked but it is no part of the booke and therefore no cause why you shoulde absteyne from subscribing to it T. C Pag. 163. Sect. 1. To passe by the prophane prouerbe here vsed which matcheth mad men and women and childr togither ▪ most vnseemely for a D. of diuinit especially handling diuine matters for the singing of Psalmes by course and side after side although it be very auncient yet it is not commendable and so much the more to be suspected for that the diuell hath gone about to get it so great authoritie partly by deriuing it from Ignatius tyme and partly in making the worlde beleeue that this ocrat 6 ▪ 8. cap. Platin. cap. Damas. Theod. 2. lib. 24. cap. came from heauen and that the Angels were heard to ng after this sort which as it is a mere fable so is it confuted by Hystoriographers whereof some ascribe the beginning of this to Damasus some other vnto Flauianus and Dioo rus From whence soeuer it came it cannot be good (*) This is slat con r. ie to that you affirme pag. 109. Sect. considering that when it is graunted that all the people may prayse God as it is in singing of Psalmes there this ought not to be restrayned vnto a fewe and where it is lawfull both with heart and 〈◊〉 to sing the whole Psalme there i is not inecte that they should sing but the one half with their heart and voyce and the other with their heart onely For where they may both with heart and voyce sing there the heart is not enough Therefore besides that incommoditie whiche cōmeth this way in that being tossed after this sort mē cannot vnderstand what is song these other two incōuemences come of this forme of singing therfore is banished in all reformed churches Io. Whitgifte To the slaunderous vntruth of the Admonition or to my answere there vnto you say nothing but passe it ouer S. Paule vsed a prophane prouerbe in very serious and diuine matters when he sayde Cretenses semper mendaces c. ad Ti. 1. and therefore it well beséemeth a Doctor of Tit. 1. itie aptly and fitly applying it But why doe you not find fault with the Authors of the Admonition who vse a more prophane prouerbe that is tossing of tennise balles in as serious a matter You confesse that singing of Psalmes by course and
phansies they haue in this booke which they can not grounde vpon any scriptures but by wringing and wresting of them and in deede their seeking is to haue all things framed according to their fansies that they may be accompted planters and platformers of churches I omitte this that the author boasteth that he and many others will set thē selues against vs as the professed enimies of the churche of Christ For the matter is not great neither shall they in that point dea e an otherwyse with vs than the Anabaptistes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ther H e likes haue dealte with other Churches This shal be sufficiēt for an answere to y ◠booke bicause all other matters of substance are by me answered before in the former cōfutatiō Io. Whitgifte Nothing answered neither is this proclamation of defense solued A briefe ansvvere to certaine Pamphlets spread abroad of late I haue of late receiued three litle Pamphlets the first as it were a preface to the other two the second entituled An exhortation to the Bishops to deale brotherly with their brethren The thirde An exhortation to the Bishops and their clergie to answere a litle booke that came foorth the last Parliament and to other brethren to iudge of it by Gods worde vntil they see it answered and not be carried away with any respect of men The preface cōsisteth of these pointes especially first by diuers exāples it is there declared that the wicked and vngodly of this world could neuer away with suche as would reproue them for their manifest sinnes and vngodlines Secondly that this is the cause why these twoo treatises whiche were lately written and imprinted in the laste Parliament time c. wer of so many misliked and the authors therof so cruelly entreated and streightly imprisoned c. Thirdly it raileth on the bishops and such as be in authoritie comparing them to false prophets and to Phariseis c. Last of all it cōcindeth with threatening that if they go forwarde in their synnes their doings shal be with more bitternes of wordes and plainenesse of speache throwen into their faces The first is nedelesse for who knoweth not that from time to time it hath bin the manner of such as were desperatly wicked not to suffer their sinnes openly to be reproued The second is false vncharitable slaunderous for the cause why the bookes be not estemed especially of the wise learned is the vntrue doctrine conteined in them mainteined with vntrue and v apt allegations of the scriptures and enterlaced with opprobrious termes and railing speaches tending to the disquietnes of the church and ouerthrow of true religiō The authors therof to be imprisoned not for telling any mā of his sinnes but for writing libels against this whole church of England against the booke of common praer against the ministery against y e sacraments finally against the whole forme and gouernmēt of the church by the whole consent of this Realme established and according to the rule of Gods word And with what face can you say that they be imprisoned for telling men of their sinnes where euer reade you or heard you that any of the Prophets or Apostles tolde men of their sinnes by libels Surely Libelling is no true way of reforming that kinde of dealing is not for the Apostles of Christe but for the ministers of Sathan T C. Pag. 177. Sect. 1. here he saith the authors of the Admomtion are not punished or their booke misliked for that it telleth of the faults in the church or of the sinnes of men but for y t it mainteineth false doctrine for that they preferred a libel for the doctrine it appeareth by that which is said what it is And if he would define what a libel were ▪ it were easy to answere vnto the other point If he meane bicause it was preferred without any name vnto it how will he answere (*) Forsoo h 〈◊〉 you make wicked comparison to the example of S. Iohn in y e Apocalips who reprehend ng the ministers o diuers churches ▪ did not (a) A manifest vntruth put to his name vnto his book And to the writer of the Epistle vnto the Hebrewes ▪ which was a singular instrument and did not subscribe his epistle wherin notwithstāding he sharply rebuketh diuers faults amongst thē And yet S. Iohn nor the writer to the Hebrues were not the ministers of Satan And if he call it a libell bycause it vseth some sharper speaches surely all men see that his booke deserueth then to be called a Satyr hauing for tart words bitter and for one twenty But in what respect soeuer he calleth it a libell he accuseth not so much the authours of the Admonition for preferring of it as diuers of the honorable house of Parliament which did allow it Io. Whitgifte The comparison is very vnequall and odious that you make betwixte the holy bookes of the Scripture indited by the spirit of God and reputed and taken as portions of the canonicall scriptures wherein only we haue to séeke the doctrine of saluation and these rayling rude vncharitable and vnlearned Admonitions And yet in the one of them that is in the Reuelation you are fouly ouershot for the name of Iohn setteth his name to the Apocalips both in the beginning end the author of that booke is expressed thrée times in the firste chapter and that with such circumstances that it cannot well be doubted who the author was though you would cauill about the multiplicitie of the name Likewise his name is expressed in the latter chapter of the booke wherefore you were not well aduised when you set it downe that S. Iohn in the Apocalips did not put his name to his booke He saithe in the. 1. cap. in the first verse Seruo suo Iohanni and in the. 4. verse Ioannes 7. ecclesijs quae sunt in Asia and a little after Ego Ioannes frater vester c. and in the last chap. Ego Ioannes qui audiui vidi haec The epistle to the Hebrues hath no opprobrious and slanderous words in it neither doth the author thereof séeke to defame or deface any body as the authors of the Admonition do If my booke be comparable to eyther of the Admonitions in sharpe and vncharitable speaches proue it vnto me by comparing them togither and surely I will like the worse both of my boke and of my self and confesse that I haue offended Although I might excuse my selfe in saying that I haue done it in the defense of the truth and vendicating this Church of England from such vntollerable slanders as they burthen it with If any of the honorable house of Parliament did consent to the publishing of it in that manner and forme that it was published which I am sure they did not as you vndutifully and vntruly charge them I will not excuse them and yet they cannot be said to be either the authors or the publishers of it neither can their allowing of
churche is an ordinarie function in a Churche lawefully constituted which office in the. 30. he calleth the Deaconship Io. Whitgifte In neither of these doth M. Beza so tie prouiding for the poore to Deacons that they must by them be prouided for and by no other hée onely sheweth what was done in this case in the Apostles tyme and in the tymes immediatly following but there is neyther Scripture nor any learned wryter that teacheth that the poore may be by no other prouided for than by Deacons You proue that which no man denieth and speake not one worde of the matter in question that is whether of necessitie the poore must be prouided for by Deacons and not otherwyse T. C. Peter Martyr vpon the. 11. to the Romaynes speaking of the Elders whiche did assiste the Pastor in euery Churche and of the Deacons lamenteth that this order is so fallen out of the Churche that the names of these functions do scarce remayne Io. Whitgifte That which Peter Martyr speaketh in that place is spoken generally of all that the Apostle had before wrytten touching the publike ministers of the Churche and therfore you doe vniustly restrayne it only to Elders and Deacons It maye euidentlye appeare that M. Martyr maketh there a comparison betwixt the gouerranent of the Churche of Christe in the Apostles tyme the gouernment of the Popes Church in his tyme as his wordes following declare for thus he addeth immediatly In steade of these they haue brought in Taperbearers Acoluthes and Subdeaco which with their light and stagelike gestures serue at their superstitious altar So that you can not gather of this place that your Seigniorie is perpetuall and must of necessitie for euer remayne in the Churche T. C. M. Bucer in his first booke of the kyngdome of Christ for the auncients of the Churche sayeth that the number of the Elders of euery Churche ought to be encreased according to the multitude of the people and in the. 14. chapter of the same booke sayeth that this order of Deaconship was religiously kept in the Churche vntill it was dryuen out by Antichriste Io. Whitgifte It had bene well to haue noted the chapter out of the which you gather that first saying of M. Bucer howebeit the matter is not great for the question is not whether the number of the Elders of euery Churche ought to be encreased according to the number of the people or no in such places where this kynde of gouernment is admitted but whether this kynde of gouernment muste of necessitie in all Churches and at all tymes be put in practise I doe not remember that M. Bu er any where affirmeth that In déede in the fifth chapter of the firste booke speakyng of these Seniors he sayeth Tales sanè possunt cum administris doctrinae Sacramentorum Christi disciplinam exercere c. Such may exercise the diseipline of Christe with the ministers of the worde and Sacramentes c. He sayeth they may doe it not that they ought to do it That whiche M. Bucer speaketh of the Deaconshippe in the 14. chapter is not denied but hee nowhere sayeth that the poore muste of necessitie hée prouided for by Deacons and by none other and hée teacheth in the same chapter that mo things apperteyned to the office of the Deacon than to prouide for the poore as namely to assiste the ministers in the administration of the Sacramentes and exercising of discipline What sufficient proofes these bée to induce that necessitie of the kynde of gouernment so greatly vrged by you let the learned Reader iudge T. C. 5 That excommunication pertayneth not to any one man in the Churche M. Caluine in his Institutions 4. booke and 11. Chapter and. 6. Section teacheth that excommunication porteyneth not to one man and that it was to wicked a facte that one man taking the authoritie which was common to other to hymselfe alone opened a waye to tyrannie tooke from the Churche hir right and abrogated the Church Senate ordeined by the spirite of Christe And in the. 12 chapter and. 7. Section he sayeth further that it ought not to be done without the knowledge and approbation of the Churche Io. Whitgifte Wée graunte that no one man ought to take that vnto hym selfe which doth not apperteyne vnto him but I haue proued Tract 18. that excommunication perteineth to Byshops and that this Church of England hath consented there vnto wherefore M. Ca uine speaketh against that excommunication whiche the Pope violently and tyrannically vsurpeth and not against this whiche our Bishoppes in this Churche of Englande both by the lawes of God and consent of the Churche exercise I speake of the thing it selfe and not of the abuse T. C. M. Beza in his confessions 5. chapter 43. Section sayeth that this power of excommunicating is giuen to no one man except it please God to worke extraordinarily Peter Martyr vpon the firste to the Corinthes and fifth chapter sayeth that it is very daungerous to permitte so waighty a matter as excommunication to the discretion and wil of any one man And therefore both that tyrannie might be auoyded and this censure execeuted with greater fruite and grauitie that the order whiche the Apostles there vseth is still to be obserued Io. Whitgifte To M. Beza and M. Martyr I answere as I dyd to M. Caluine and yet M. Martyr séemeth to expounde hym selfe in the same place where hée speakyng against the committing of this authoritie of excommunicating to the Pope or to one Bishop and refelling this saying of the Papistes Episcopum esse totam ecclesiā virtualiter when as they be rather tora ecclesia vitialiter as he there affirmeth he addeth by and by de malis haec intelligas tyrannicè agentibus Vnderstande this of euill Dishops and such as deale tyrannically whereby he declareth that he speaketh agaynst the committing of this discipline to euill Bishops and such as vse it tyrannically T. C. M. Bucer of the kingdome of Christ. in the. 1. book and. 9. chapter sayth that Saint Paule accuseth the Corinthians for that the whole Church did not cast out of their companie the incestuous person Io. Whitgifte The question is not whether the whole Church may haue to doe in excommunication or no but whither the consent therof is al tymes therein to be required What the meaning of the Apostle is in that place to the Corinth I haue declared Tract 15. T. C. 6 That Chauncellours Commissaries Officials c. vsurpe authoritie in the Church which belongeth not to them M. Caluine in his Institutions 4. booke 11. chap. 7. Sect. speaketh agaynst the office of Officials and alledgeth diuers reasons agaynst them as that they exercise that part of the Bishops charge and that they handle matters whiche perteyne not to the spirituall iurisdiction Io. Whitgifie M. Caluin in that place alledgeth no reasons at al against those offices only he sayth that they exercise that part of the Bishops charge and that they
therefore I am bolde to speake as I haue learned out of the holy Scriptures and other godly wryters neyther is this to rende in sunder eyther the Sacraments from the worde or the Sacraments from them selues but to keepe the order vsed in the Churche in the Apostles time and since their time No man that is able to preache béeing for his other qualities also méete is debarred from ministring the Sacraments if he be in the ministerie but no man be he neuer so able in all respectes may presume to take an office vpon him wherevnto he is not called Therefore he that can not preache and yet by the order of the Tract 6. cap. 1. Tract 9. cap. 1 diuis 15. Churche is admitted to minister the Sacraments is a lawfull minister of the same and he that can preache excepte by order he be therevnto called maye not intrude him selfe into any function of the ministerie I haue also declared before that euen from the beginning the administration of the Sacramentes haue béene committed to some to whome the preaching of the worde hathe not béene committed The. 3. diuision Admonition Touching Deacons though their names be remayning yet is the office foully peruerted and turned vpside downe for their duetie in the Primitiue Churche was to (s) Rom. 12. 8. gather the a mes diligently and to distribute it faythfully also for the sicke and impotent persons to prouide paynefully hauing euer a diligent care that the charitie of godly men were not wasted vpon loyterers (t) 2. Th. 3. 10 and idle vagabounds Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 118. Sect. 2. It is true that in the primitiue Churche the office of a Deacon was to collect and prouide for the poore but not only for it was also their office to preache and to baptise For Stephen and Philip beeing Deacons dyd preache the Gospell Acts. 6. 7. 8. And Philip dyd baptise the Eunuche Act. 8. T. C. Pag. 128. Sect. 1. In the. 118. page vnto the example of Philip he addeth S. Stephen whyche was one of the Deacons which he affirmeth to haue preached But I denie it for all that long oration which he hath in the seuenth of the Actes is no sermon but a de ense of him selfe agaynst those accusations whych were layde agaynst hym as (*) No suche thing to be foūd in Beza his annotations M. Beza dothe very learnedly and substantially proue in his annotations vpon those places of S. Stephens disputations and defense Nowe to defende himselfe beeing accused is lawfull not for the Deacons onely but for any other Christian and we reade nothing that Stephen did there eyther touching the defense of his cause or the sharpe rebuking of the obstinate Pharisies and Priestes but that the holy Martyrs of God which were no deacons nor ministers haue done with vs when they haue bene conuented before their persecutors and whereas he ayth that Philip baptised I haue shewed before by what authoritie he dyd it that is not in that he was a Deacon but for 〈◊〉 he was an Euangelist Io. Whitgifte This is a harde and new deuised shifte You imagine as I thinke that you are in Stephen hys oration a serm n. the Logike or Philosophy scholes where you may feyne what distinctions you liste but al wil not serue The accusations are conteyned in the. 13. 14. verse of the. 6. chap. let the Reader compare his sermon with them iudge whether he spake in the way of preaching or of defending himselfe Although a man may make his Apologie in preaching answere accusations in a sermon and surely that sharpe seuere repr hension that he concludeth with beginning at the. 51. verse doth euidently declare that it was a sermon Moreouer it was in the Synagogue which was called the Synagogue of the Libertines c. The ende of it was to proue true religion and the true worshipping of God to be affixed neither to the Temple nor to external ceremonies but to consist of fayth in God And yet I do not deny but that Stephē also did vse this sermon as an answere to those matters wherof he was accused but he answered in the way of preaching not of pleading And that doth M. Gualter directly affirme for Gualter although he cal this an oration a defense yet in the. 8. chap. he proueth by this example of Stephen that Deacōs were permitted togither with the charge of the goods of the Churche and of the poore to preache as I haue shewed before And the Authors of the Centuries speaking of that time say thus It appeareth also out of the. 6. 8. of the Acts Cent. 1. lib. 2. cap. 7. that Deacons did teach And in the same booke chap. Others were Deacons whose office was to serue the tables at Ierusalem so long as there was there a cōmunitie of goods Act. 6. notwithstāding it appeareth by Steuen Act. 6. by Philip Act. 8. that they did teach work myracles euery where in other Churches the office of Deacons was to teach minister I can not finde in M. Beza his Annotatiōs any such thing as you héere affirme Although if it were so yet doth it not improue this to be a sermon for then was the oration of Peters no sermō Act. 2. wherin he answered to those that accused the Apostles of drunkennesse neyther can Paule be sayde to haue preached Act. 24. If this be true that an Apologie may not be made by the way of preaching If it be lawfull thus to inuent distinctions to shift off so manyfest examples of Scriptures then it is an easy matter to shift off any thing that shall be propounded I haue proued by the Scripture it selfe by Epiphanius and by M. Gualter and by the authors of the Centuries that Philip béeing a Deacon dyd bothe baptise and preache and you onely deny it without eyther author or reason The. 4. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 118. Sect. 2. Iustinus Martyr one of the moste auncient wryters in his seconde Deacons helped in the ministration of the supper Apologie sayth that in the administration of the Supper Deacons did distribute the bread and the wine to the people The same dothe M. Caluine affirme of Deacons in his Institutions chap. 19. T. C. Page 128. Sect. 1. 2. 3. He addeth further out of Iustine Martyr that the Deacons dyd distribute the bread and the wyne in the administration of the Supper Tully sayth in a certayne place that it is as greate a poynt of wisedome in an aduocate or pleader of causes to holde back and to keepe close that which is hurtfull to hys cause as it is to speake that which is profitable M. Doctor obserueth none of these poynts for besydes that the things whych he brought for the defense of the seruice booke are suche as they haue before appeared in seeking to defende it he manifestly oppugneth it For before h sayde that the booke of seruice