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A80416 A learned and full ansvver to a treatise intituled; The vanity of childish baptisme. Wherein the severall arguments brought to overthrow the lawfulnesse of infants baptisme, together with the answers to those arguments maintaining its lawfulnesse, are duly examined. As also the question concerning the necessitie of dipping in baptisme is fully discussed: by William Cooke Minister of the Word of God at Wroxall in Warwickwshire. Printed and entred according to order. Cooke, William. 1644 (1644) Wing C6043; Thomason E9_2; ESTC R15425 103,267 120

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families without mention of going out to the waters or fetching great store of waters It is like the waters they had within doores at midnight sufficed Act. 8.38 39. Your Collection from Philips going down to the water with the Eunuch that therefore they used dipping is as vain Must not they go to the water where it was if they would use it would the water have come up unto them in the chariot any sooner for sprinkling then for dipping Of the same stamp is your inference from Matth. 3.16 Mark 1.10 from Christs ascending from the water For as Christ was pleased to be baptized with water so he was pleased to go where the water was viz. in the channell to which there was a descent and from which there was an ascent so that he must go down to and come up from the water But here is not the least hint that Iohn doused Christ over head or under the water Nay rather that conceit of yours is here confuted for if our Blessed Saviour had been plunged of Iohn into the water then it would rather have been said That Iohn cast or plunged Christ into the water 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and took him out of the water But it is onely implyed that Christ went down unto the water and came up again from it From your other Scriptures Col. 2.12 Rom. 6.4.5 1 Cor. 15.29 what you goe about to gather I know not unlesse this that as Christ was buried abode in the grave three dayes and then rose again so the party baptized must be put under the water abide there some considerable time and then come up againe for if you presse a similitude of Christs buriall in going down into the water and of his resurrection in coming up out of the water why not also of his abode in the grave three dayes by abiding three dayes or some answerable time under the water which will make bad worke neither can any such thing be gathered from those Scriptures Now to use your owne words Let any man that is not quite fallen out with his reason judge whether in all these Scriptures be any syllable that speaks more for dipping then for sprinkling or washing with water Men may well be at agreement with their reason and yet perceive no such thing as you inferre hence Col. 2.12 Rom. 6.4 5. 1 Cor. 15.29 But I would demand here two Questions First How can you gather from these places a dipping of the whole man over head and under water and that a similitude of Christs death buriall and rising againe to be represented by dipping into the water is signified here These Scriptures shew indeed that the end of our baptisme is to seale our communion with Christ in his death and resurrection by which we are dead to sinne and raised againe to holinesse But if you will presse hence a necessitie of resemblance of Christs death buriall and resurrection by our descending into abiding in and coming up out of the water Pro. 30.6 Revel 22.18 take heed lest you be one of those which adde to Gods word lest he reprove you as a lyer and adde unto you the plagues written in his Booke For I know not any word of God wherein this representation is necessarily implied much lesse expressed Besides if you urge death and resurrection to be resembled by descension into and ascension out of the water you must urge also buriall which is principally there expressed by the biding of the whole man head and all under for a time answerable to Christs three dayes buriall which cannot be without danger yea certainty of drowning Secondly If it should be granted that a representation and resemblance of Christs death buriall and resurrection is set before us in baptisme and so of our death to sinne and rising again to holinesse Yet I would demand why may not this be represented as well by infusion of water as by dipping Can you give me an example of so many killed and buried by immersion or dipping into the water as I can give of them that have beene put to death and buried by the infusion of water I am sure a whole world of men and other earthly creatures those few that were in the Arke excepted were buried in the universall Deluge at once by infusion not by dipping So that infusion or sprinkling Gen. 6.27 7.11 12. may well as clearely signifie death and buriall as dipping And to the preservation of Noah and those that were with him by the Arke on which waters were poured from drowning the Apostle compares baptisme as its antitype Wherefore you might doe well to be henceforth a little more modest and not talke as if all men were fallen out with their reason which will not jumpe with you in your weake conceits Now we come to your inference or conclusion which being built on the crazie and rotten foundation of such vaine and fond premises falls to the ground of it selfe And whereas you say that The Greek wanted not words to expresse any other act as well as dipping I answer Neither did the Greek want words to expresse onely dipping of the whole man all over into the water or dowsing and plunging over head and under the water which you would have Baptizo to signifie but neither have nor can prove that it doth if the holy Ghost had meant any such act Neither doth the Spirit of God need your helpe to find out fit words It seemed fit to that wise Spirit to use Baptizo which signifies to wash whether by dipping or sprinkling washing onely being intended to be significant and not either dipping or sprinkling Whereas you say that It cannot be proved that baptisme was administred any other way then by dipping for at least a thousand years after Christ Ans I leave the proofe and trialls of that to Historians and Antiquaries as being unfurnished with the Records of Antiquitie though I conceive your Assertion is as bold and groundlesse as your others are proved to be Secondly Why do you not prove that dowsing over head and under water was used for at least a thousand years after Christ Thirdly How can you tell it cannot be proved that sprinkling was used of all that time Will you perswade people that you have read over all the writings of the Ancients or that you are so honest faithfull and unerring that your word must be taken for an Oracle without proofe As for your cleare resulting consequence as I said It is built on too weake grounds to stand and therefore may be safely denied as a plaine untruth And whereas you apply the words of Peter and Ananias unto us Act. 2.38 Act. 22.16 1 Sam. 15.23 as to unbaptized persons perswading us to arise and be baptized Intimating that for us to refuse this your Charge is rebellion and stubbornesse as witchcraft iniquitie and idolatrie I would advise you take heed of and repent for abusing Scripture as in these and a great part