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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A41015	Roma ruens Romes ruine : being a svccinct answer to a popish challenge concerning the antiquity, unity, universality, succession, and perpetuall visibility of the true church even in the most obscure times, when it seemed to be totally eclipsed in the immediate ages before Luther / by Daniel Featley ...	Featley, Daniel, 1582-1645.	1644 (1644)	Wing F592; ESTC R4369	68,281	80

of the canon law flat repugnant one to the other but others have done it to my hand and saved me this labour PAR III. Concerning the immutability of divine faith CHALLINGE This one true faith generally preached through the world was not to cease with the Apostles and their immediate hearers but was by Christs promise to continue unchanged to the worlds end For so it is said Mat. 28. 20. I am with you alway unto the end of the world Joh. 14. 26. the comforter whom the father will send in my name he shall teach you all things Answer Neither of these places commeth home to prove that which you intend viz. that the christian faith is to continue unchanged and may not by any addition or detraction be altered Why did you not produce to that purpose Rev. 22. 18 19. I testifie to every man that heareth the words of the prophesic of this book if any man shall add unto these things God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book and Gal. 1. 8 9. but though we or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you then that which you have received let him be accursed Upon which words S. Austin thus paraphraseth whether it be saith he concerning Christor the Church or any thing else which belongeth to faith and our life I will not say if w● who are not to be compared to him that said it but if an angel from heaven preach unto you any thing besides that which you have received in the scriptures of the law and the gospel let him be accursed With whom accord St. Hilary St. Cyrill St. Theophilus of Alexandria St. Basil and S. Athanasius St. Hilary I admire thee in this my lord Constantine that thou requirest of us that our faith be restrained to scriptures only S. Cyril of Jerusalem we may not determin or appoint any thing no not the least without the authority of scriptures St. Theophilus of Alexandria it comes from a di●ellish instinct to follow the sophisms of me●s wits and to conceive any thing to be divine without the authority of scriptures St. Basil the great it is a manifest falling away from faith to bring in to our christian beleef any thing that it not written And S. Athanasius what exceeding folly is it in you to speak things that are not written It is the manner of Marcion and other hereticks not to walk within the bounds of the gospel but to speak out of their private fancies and you Sabellians walking in their steps go about to pervert the unstable by speaking things that are not written But you thought fit to balk those texts of scripture with the fathers glosses upon them and deductions from them though very pertinent to prove the immutability of our christian faith because they have no good meaning to your unwritten traditions As for the two texts you here alledge of Saint Matthew and Saint Iohn they are to singular purpose but not to yours they are two deep wells of salvation out of which we may draw abundance of water of comfort for if Christ be always with us we are always sure of protection if his spirit will reach us all things we shall be sure of instruction But what is this to the imimmutability of our faith or unvariablenesse of the doctrine and sacraments of the church God was always with the chosen of Israel under the law and his spirit taught them all things needfull to salvation yet was the priesthood thereof changed and the law also and a new covenant made upon new conditions and with new promises so it might be also under the gospel if God in his word revealed in scripture had not declared the contrary namely Psal. 1104. the Lord sware and will not repent thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedeck whence the apostle inferreth Heb. 7. 24. this man because he continueth over bath an unchangeable priesthood and 1 Cor. 11. 26. as oft as ye eat this bread and drink this cup ye shall shew the death of the lord till he come that is the second time to wit to judge the quick the dead the lords supper therefore shall continue till we are bid to the marriage supper of the lamb in heaven and Apoc. 14. 6. I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven having the everlasting gospel to preach to them that dwell on the earth and to every nation and kindred and tongue and people if the gospel preached unto us be everlasting no new gospel shall succeed it and if no new gospel no new faith The celestiall lights often turn their shadows and give to the inhabitants of the earth divers denominations of per●scii amphiscii and heteroscii but with the father of light● there is no shadow of change Jam. 1. 17. It was true before all time and shall be after all time when heaven and earth shall passe away when the whole world shall be changed into a second chaos and that chaos shall be re-changed into a new world ego Deus non mutor Mal. 3. 6. I am the Lord I change not As God is so it his essence and as his essence is so are his attributes and as his attributes are so is his word and as his word so is our faith grounded upon it immutable Nothing is more unsteady than the needle in a dyall or compasse shaking and quivering continually yet if it be touched with a loadstone and set to the north it resteth unmoveable in like manner though nothing be more variable and unsteady than our assent to mysteries above reason and nature yet if it be touched by the spirit and fixed to the word of God it remaineth unmoveable and the church of Christ ever holding and embracing this faith may truly use the motto of the Phoenix of her age Queen Elizabeth semper eadem always the same PARAG. IV. Concerning the propagation of the christian faith to all ages by pastors and teachers lawfully sent CHALLENGE This divine truth once established to the cud it might continne was to be derived to posteritie not by angels sent to teach particular persons nor by illuminated brethren of Amsterdam still pretending new light but by a continued succession of known visible pastours and bishops lawfully ordained and sent to preach it perpetually in desp●ght of all new sectaries and novellers whatsoever Answer Of angels sent to particular persons since the time of the apostles and the fathers of the primitive church I read no where but in your golden Legend and for fanatick and phantastick spirits at Amsterdam if any of that mad brood still remain you well know that we build our faith no more upon these illuminated brethren of Amsterdam pretending speciall revelation than upon your inspired fathers of Rome pretending infallible direction and a kind of appropriation of the holy Ghost The differences of the two o●●●les both bragging of infallible assistance is this they are

am left and they seek my life to take it away I suppose a clearer evidence of the latencie and obscuritie of the church cannot be brought Yet our Rhemists and Romanists seek to avoyd it by laying the whole blame upon the ten tribes of Israel and clearing Judah But it is too manifest by the reformation of Ezekiah 2 King 18. 4. and Josiah 2. King 22. 23. and the judgement of God upon Manasses 2 King 24. 3. that Judah was partaker with Israel and therefore both are alike charged by the spirit of God 2 King 17. 13. Yet the Lord testified against Israel and against Iudah by all the prophets and by all the seers saying turn you from your evill ways and keep my commandements and my statutes v. 14. notwithstanding they would not hear nor obey but hardned their necks like to the necks of their fathers v. 16. they made molten images and worshiped all the host of heaven and served Baal v. 19. also Iudah kept not the commandements of the Lord their God but walked in the sta●…es of Israel which they made therefore the Lord cast away all the seed of Israel and afflicted them and delivered them into the hands of spoylers and carried them into the land Ashur where according to the prophesie of Hosea c. 3. 4. the children of Israel abode many days without a king and without a prince and without a sacrifice and without an image without an Ephod and without a Teraphim A sad text to comment upon no king no priest no scepter no censer no throne of David no chayr of Moses no court no temple Where was now the glorious hierarchie our adversaries dream of where was the reverend assembly of prelates the numerous congregations of people the solemn feasts the stately processions the rich furniture and pompous ceremonies and glittering shews which make the lustre of such a church as they would have Where was now the citie set upon a hill that cannot be hid the tabernacle piched in the sun At this time and afterwards in the days of Jeremie and Ezekiel and likewise after the death of our Saviour during first the ten persecutions of the church by the heathen emperours and in the middle by the Arrian and last of all by antichristian princes and states the true church was more like to the moon than the sun which is ofttimes in the wane sometimes in a partiall and sometimes also in a totall eclipse and true beleevers are compared to the sands which are by the sea shore and appear innumerable in calm and fair weather but in trouble som times as it were in a rough sea tribulationum tentationum fluctibus operiuntur atque turbantur not a sand is to be seen Such times have been and we are to expect no better in the lees of time and latter days For then many false prophets shall arise and deceive many Mat. 24. 11. and because iniquitie shall abound the love of many shall wax cold there shall be a falling away or a generall apostasie from the christian faith and the man of sin shall be revealed the son of perdition and the tail of the dragon shall draw the third part of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth and the divell shall rage the more by how much his time is shorter and the dragon shall give power unto the beast and he shall make war with the saints and overcome them and all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him whose names are not written in the book of life When iniquitie getteth the upper hand and antichrist shall be in his highest elevation shall the son of man then find faith upon the earth that is as the Romish commentators themselvs expound the word any publike outward profession of faith any beauty of holinesse or appearance of a christian church S. Augustine resolveth negatively by the sun moon and stars the church in regard of her clearest lights and eminent professors is understood when the sun shall be darkned and the moon shall not give her light and the stars shall fall from heaven the church shall not appear wicked men persecuting her above measure Against which times the Lord arm and prepare his dearest servants that love the truth in sincerity Aldersgate London from prison in Peter-house August the first 1644. Thine in the Lord Iesus D. F. AN ANSWER TO A POPISH CHALLENGE Touching the antiquity and visibility of the true church and other questions depending thereon PARAGRAPH I. Concerning the name catholike CHALLENGE We catholikes say c. Answer IF I mistake not in my guesse you seem to be some mendicant fryer and according to that profession you begin with begging for in the very first words you beg the main point in question to wit that you are catholikes saying We catholikes prove your selvs to be so and then speak so win the name and bear it mean while say not we catholikes but we papists or if you have a months mind to the name catholike qualifie it and allay it with your distinctive term Roman and speak as your fellowes do we of the * catholike Roman church that is we of the universall particular church for if catholike be universall surely roman is particular Or rather say not we catholikes say but we say that we are catholikes for this hath been the say of all hereticks and schismaticks The Arrians saith Salvianus and all other mis-beleevers are hereticks in our account but not in their own nay they so farre over w●●n themselvs catholikes that they stick not to def●… us who are truly catholikes with the title and brand of hereticks As S●… Magus stiled himself the great power of God and Iezabel called her selfe a prophetesse and Nestorius a notorious heretick covered himself with a vail of an orthodox professour and the Turks though it appear out of all stories that they came from Hagar the bond-●o●●n and are truly Hagar●ns yet give themselves the names of 〈◊〉 so you papists generally though you are a medley or cento of many hereticks both ancient and latter yet you voyce your selvs catholikes and your own testimony is the best if not the onely plea you have to that title For if any other whom you hove not taught to speak give you that title it is out os ignorance or in derision as the Athenians made a decree to deine Alexander quia Alexander vult esse deus sit Deus because Alexander will be a god let him be a god The term catholike cannot be taken but in one of these two senses either properly for universall and so it is opposed to particular or improperly for orthodoxall and so it is opposed to hereticall or schismaticall When this epithere is applyed to the church it is taken in the first sense {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} supple {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} but when it is applyed to faith it is for the

if God strictly examin them or that true holinesse and sanctifying grace may be lost or that masses may be celebrated without communicants or that princes have not authority over ecclesiasticall persons or that images are to be adored or that men may merit by their works eternall life or that a child of God ought to doubt of Gods mercy and may not be assured of his salvation or that it belongeth not to princes to call ecclesiasticall assemblies or that the church in the most strict sense consisteth not of the elect only or that the whole church consisting of laity as well as clergy may not participate the mysteries of the body and blood of Christ entirely drinking of the holy cup as well as eating of the bread Let him be accursed Methinks I hear you already cry out with her in the Poet Heu patior telis vulnera facta me●s O● with the eagle in Iulians m●tto feeling her self deadly wounded with an arrow feathered out of her own wing Nostris configimur alis PARAG. XIX Concerning the faith of Constantine CHALLENGE Or lastly if you desire to go neerer to the times of the apostles we will joyn with you to prove our faith in the days of Constantine the great who first built and opened christian churches and gave freedom for christians to come together and to know and publish to the world what was held by them which before could not so well be done by reason of the perfec●tions in which the church had been 〈◊〉 then generally eclipsed Answer From S. Gregory you step up immediately to Constantine the great and at once stride over 300 years in which time the prime and flower of the Greek and Latin fathers lived and dyed would none of them father your Church You take an oath if you be magistri in theologia to expound scripture non ●isi juxta una●… c●●sensum patrum according to the unanimous consent of the fathers this joynt consent can very hardly be found in the interpretation of the ●…ures before Constanti●●s time because few before that time commented upon the holy scripture at least whose works are come to our hands and therefore you should have especially instanced in the fathers from Constantines time to S. Grego●●s but as Festus answered Paul so think I fit to answer you Ca●…em appell●…●d C●sarem ibis you have appealed to Constantine and to Constantine you shall go of whom I may say truely that which the Fre 〈…〉 sometimes spake before him glo●ingly tu no 〈…〉 ill●● 〈◊〉 faci●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Britains by ●●y 〈◊〉 for though Li●… he●… not Iustus goeth about to rob us of this brouch and brightest lustre of our nation denying us the honour of his birth as you do of his faith yet I doubt not but to make good against him and you that Constantine is ours body and soul and to resolve you in point of his birth and native soyle which was this our Iland I refer you to Baronius for his faith to Eusebius Socrates Sozomen Arnobius Lactantius Minutius Foelix Athanasius Epiphanius and Greg. Nazianzen and divers others who lived in the same time or not long after him Let the faith generally beleeved and received in the age wherein this blessed Emperour lived serve as a touchstone to examine our pure and precious and your drossie and counterfeit faith and first let us begin with the ground of all faith the holy scriptures 1. We teach that the canon of the old testament consisteth of 22. books only excluding the apocryphall which your councell of Trent confoundeth with the canonicall Let the first quaere then be whether did the church in Constantines time hold with your canon or ours To this let the councell of Laodicea speak qua autem oporteat legi in authoritatem recipi haec sunt Genesis Exodus c. These books which ought to be read and received as authenticall and canonicall are these following Gen. Exod c. In which catalogue none of the apocryphall books are mentioned Let Athanasius inform us who reckons but 22. books of the old testament as we do and after him Greg. Nazian. most expresly brandeth the apocrypha with a note of bastardy {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} Which Greek verses a wel-willer to your church hath translated into Latin At tua ne libris fallatur mens alienis Hunc habeas certum numerum a me lector ●●ice Tot nempe Hebr●● quot sunt elementa loquelae Quicquid pratorea est hand inter certa loc andu● The Greek word for word is thus to be Englished I have s●● down 22. books of the old testament agreeable to the number of the Hebrew letters ●●d 〈◊〉 ●e found any besides these ●… to be counted among the true and genuine books of the old Testament 2. We with Tertullian adore the ple●●tude of scriptures a●●ibing to them this perfection that they contain in them all things necessary to salvation You maintain on the contrary that the written word alone is not a sufficient and perfect rule and therefore you add unto it the unwritten word which you call crad●ion Which part did Constantine take and the church in his time let Athanasius be heard in this case Sufficiunt per se sacroe divin● us inspiratae lu●rae ad veritatis indicationem The holy inspired scriptures are sufficient of themselvs for the declaration of the truth let ●a●tanti●● be heard Cyprian was so ravished with the excellent knowledge of the holy scriptures that he was content with them alone upon which faith is built Let us hear Constantine himself who sitting in a golden chair as president and moderator in the first and most famous councell of Nice recommendeth the books of the old and new testament to the fathers assembled in that councell in these words the books of the evangelists and apostles and the oracles of the ancient prophets do plainly instruct us what to conceive of divine matters therefore setting aside all enmity and discord let us from the words inspired by God take the resolution of those things that are in question which most christian direction of this most noble Emperour swayed much with the fathers in that synod yet cardinall Bellarmin makes light of it and gives the Emperour a slurr for it lib. 4. de verbe Dei non scripto cap. 11. Respondeo hoc testimonium non esse tanti faciendum erat enim Constantinus magnus Imperator non magnus ecclesiae Doctor I answer that this testimony is not of so great moment for Constantine was indeed a great Emperour but not a great Doctor of the church 3. We teach that the wood of Christs crosse is not to be worshipped at all much lesse with divine worship you teach on the contrary that the crosse of Christ is to be adored cultu latria that is with the highest kind of