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A82555 The Quakers confuted, being an answer unto nineteen queries; propounded by them, and sent to the elders of the church of Duckenfield in Cheshire; wherein is held forth much of the doctrine and practise concerning revelations, and immediate voices, and against the holy Scriptures, Christs ministry, churches and ordinances &c. Together with an answer to a letter which was written and sent by one of them to a family of note and quality in the said county, which pleaded for perfection in this life, and for quaking. By Samuel Eaton, teacher of the Church of Christ heretofore meeting at Duckenfield, now in Stockport in Cheshire. Eaton, Samuel, 1596?-1665.; Waller, Richard, d. 1657. 1654 (1654) Wing E125; Thomason E719_8; ESTC R9865 69,620 98

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Letter that was given me and the Answer which I sent unto it which was directed to his wife together with the Reply that the Quakers made unto it which indeed is too tedious to be read of any who have most time it is such a sottish and senseless piece of stuff and hath so much scurrilous language in it But by it and by the Queries the Saints and World may know what a people these are what little hope there is of any good to be wrought upon them if they would admit of any rational discourse from Scripture some encouragement would be given to spend time that way with them but they can easily evade all with such Answer as this Busie minds give senses to Scripture and are Persons that have nothing to do with Scripture can witness nothing of that they speak of They pretend to speak and act all by the Spirit and if any one will try the Spirit that they speak by their Reply is that such an one can neither witness Scripture nor Spirit and therefore hath nothing to do with such things Yet they deceive many and they increase in number continually but the time will come that they shall proceed no further In the mean time it ought to be sad to every godly spirit that Satan should have such power to work so effectually in and upon many who have been reputed Saints who are drawn into them but God will issue all to his Glory at the last and in this I rest and remain Thine in the Lord Jesus Samuel Eaton THE Quakers QUERIES For some Friends who call themselves Elders of the Church of Christ meeting at Stopport these c. A few Queries to you who profess your selves to be Teachers Pastors and Elders Querie 1. WHether you have the same eternal Spirit which gave forth the Scriptures yea or no Querie 2. Whether the Apostles did give a right meaking to the Scriptures when they gave them forth or left them to you to give a meaning to them yea or no Querie 3. Whether the Plagues be not added to them who add to the Prophesies written in the Book and whether his Name be not diminished out of the Book of Life that diminishes and whether you can witness this Name yea or no Querie 4. Whether you have an infallible Judgement to judge of things eternal yea or no Querie 5. Whether you be above the Apostle and are able to judge his Condition because you say he was not perfect who said he spoke wisdom among them that were perfect Querie 6. Whether you have the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the World was which the Apostle speaks of yea or no Querie 7. Whether you have heard the voice of the liveing God of Heaven and Earth or whether do you not take the Prophets words Christs words and the Apostles words and say he saith it when saith the Lord I never spoke to you Querie 8. Whether a man shall overcome the body of sin while he is upon the Earth yea or no Querie 9. Whether you preach no other Doctrine then that which the Apostles did that which was from the beginning which we have heard which we have seen with our eyes which we have looked upon and with our hands have handled of the word of life For this life is made manifest and we have seen it and bear witness and shew it unto you Querie 10. Whether you have this word which was from the beginning and this life manifested to you which was to the Apostles And if it be why do you take a Text from the Letter and Preach from it and shew the People the Letter Querie 11. And shew me where the Prophets did take a Text and preach from it but only Christ read a place and said it was fulfilled who said he was anointed to preach and which of you can witness you are anointed to preach by the living God yea or no Querie 12. Tell me why you sing Davids Conditions and Experiences in Meeter and when you read them hats you keep on and when you sing them hats you put off Querie 13. Whether you have the voice and whether you do know the voice of Christ from the voice of a Stranger My Sheep know my voice saith Christ seing that you are so forward to judge and sit as Judges of the Saints Conditions Querie 14. Whether that which is in you which Judgeth be eternal and infallible yea or no Querie 15. What is the Ordinance which is ordained of God that those which you call Quakers deny and where or when did God command you to observe them As to sprinkle Infants to pray before and after your Sermons as you call them or to set times dayes and hours which was in the Generation which were enemies to Christ who observed such things Querie 16. What these Ordinances of God be which you speak of And where God commanded them and to whom which you say those that you call Quakers do deny mention them in particular and declare them openly in Writing and give over accusing Querie 17. Whether you do not seduce the People to draw them from the anointing within them when as John saith they need no man teach them but as the anointing and the Promise was Eternal Life to him that did abide in the anointing Querie 18. Whether you do not bewitch the people to draw them from the Spirit of God within them to observe these things which God never commanded to tell people of a Sacrament and following your outward Teaching who stand praying in the Synagogues and are called of men-Masters which Christ did forbid Mat. 23. And have the chiefest places in the Assemblies Whether these be not Antichrists which act contrary to the Commands of Christ this yea or no Querie 19. Whether a man shall ever grow up that he need no man teach him under your Ministry yea or no seeing the Apostle saith you need no man teach you and you which have been long Teachers how many have you brought up into this Condition The Church of Christ is the Pillar and Ground of Truth which doth witness the eternal Spirit and if you be the same Church and have the same Spirit Answer me these Queries without any consequences or senses otherwise deny your Eldership and Pastorship and to be no Church of Christ From some Friends in the Truth in Lancashire whom the World calls Quakers An ANSWER to the forementioned Queries brought by one Richard Waller a Messenger of the Quakers and presented by him in the name of them unto the Elders of the Church common-called the Church of Duckenfield now meeting at Stockport in the face and presence of the whole Congregation and an Answer required fromthe above said Elders upon the 5th of Iune 1653. Querie 1. WHether you have the Eternal Spirit which gave forth the Scriptures yea or no Answ We do believe and assert that all Concering the indwelling of the Spirit in the Saints that do
our own upon such Scriptures which they have given out which is not their sense but that which is Jeft to us is to find out the sense and meaneing which they have put as in Re2 13. 18. after some mystical things had been held out in which there was a meaning but hard to be understood it is is said Here is Wisdom let him that understandeth count the Number of the Beast that is let him set all his Wisdom and understanding that he hath on work to search it out Nevertheless it is not to be understood that the meaning which the Apostles intended in the Scripture which they gave out doth perpetually follow the sound of the Letter for the Letter contains contradiction many times in it but the Apostles meaning as he interprets himself hath sweet congruity in it without contradiction Querie 3. Whether Plagues be not added to them who add Concerning adding to and diminishing from the Scripture In what sense it is to be understood to the Prophecies Written in the Book And whether his name be not diminished out of the Book of Life who diminisheth And whether you can witness this name yea or no Answ It is plain and clear from Rev. 22. 18. that the Evils are great and terrible that are threatned against adding and diminishing But what this adding and diminishing is that hath such woes belonging to it is the question If expounding the Scripture and interpreting it and shewing the sense and meaning thereof be the adding or diminishing that the question intends against which such a fearful Sentence is pronounced then it would reach Ezra and those others with him mentioned Nehem. 8. 7 8. For they read and they gave the sense and caused the people to understand the reading And Christ also gave the sense of those words in Isai 61. 1 2 3. and declared how they were fulfilled in himself and he expounded Moses and the Prophets their Writings to those two Disciples who were travelling towards Emmaus And Philip guided the Eunuch in his reading unto the right sense of the Prophet Isar in Chap. 53. 7 8 9. He shewed the Prophet spake not of himself but of another via Christ Acts 8. 31. 34 And what was preaching the Gospal ordained of God for And why were Gifts given unto men but that the People might be brought to Knowledge and might come to understand the Scriptures Therefore the Apostles were much exercised in opening those sealed Prophesies which were often read and never understood which respected Christ and in proving out of them that Jesus was the Christ Therefore the interpreting of Scripture is not adding to it so long as it is not any private interpretation that is given which a mans heart hath found out and his fancy hath imagined but such an interpretation as agreeth to the Spirit of the Scripture in other places 2 Pet. 1. 20 21. and such as accords with the Analogy of Faith Rom. 12. 6. that is holds Proportion with the Doctrine of Faith as it is laid down in other Scriptures This is not adding but adding is when the sufficiency of the Scriptures to build men up to salvation and to make them perfect throughly furnished unto every good work is not acknowledged and thereupon Traditions Canons and Doctrines and Commandments of men are brought in and annexed and imposed upon the people As of old by the Scribes and Pharisees which Christ so often conflicted with and by the Roman Synagogue and by some of that stamp amongst our selves And when Persons assume an Authority and Power to themselves to be the Judges of the Scripture and expunge what they please out of it and introduce into it what liketh them and what sense they give unto it whether it agrees or not agres with other Scriptures yet that must be the sense of of it and none must question it Whereas Scripture it self ought to be its own interpreter else there would be no plain standing rule to try truth by but the Truth of God must be subjected to the various and opposite fancies of men And when Persons pretend the Spirit and say they have dreamed and come with their apprehensions and say it is made out so to them or it is so given in to them and though there be never so much repugnancy in it to other Scriptures yet that must be the sense by which means the Spirit of Truth comes to suffer many affronts in this Age This is adding And indeed the rigid adhering to the letter of Scriptures and to the sound of words therein without admitting a wholesom sense such as accords with other Scriptures is adding which is the way of all Seducers and Deceivers to make their blasphemous doctrine the more vendible For the letter of Scripture in some places without searching out a sound sense will countenance Papists Arrians Ranters and whom not in their Tenents This is the introducing of another Scripture then that which is Scripture indeed and it is properly such adding to the Scripture against which such plagues are denounced Let these Persons who are called Quakers look to this for it is their grand imposture wherewith they beguilc the people they bring the Letter where it serves for their purpose as the Papists were wont to bring their hoc est corpus meum This is my Body to prove the bodily presence of Christ in the Sacrament And these press upon the people the Letter and cry out upon the Ministers of Christ and say they are lying Priests and they lead the people in darkness and so by the Letter destroy the sense of Scripture and bring in another sense which is not Scripture-sense and so themselves are found both adders to and diminishers from the Scripture Querie 4. Whether you have an infallible Judgement to judge of things eternal yea or no Concering Infalibility in judging how fat men may have it and how far not Answ The first state of every man is darkness the natural man understands not the things that are of God they are foolishness unto him neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned 1 Cor. 2. 14. When any man is brought from darkness to light even then he knoweth but in part Paul himself was in some darkness now we see through a glass darkly said he of himself and others 1 Cor. 13. 12. Those to whom John wrote who had the annointment to teach them all things and of whom John said that they knew all things which was but an hyperbolical expression and did import only much knowledge to be in them 1 Ioh. 2. 20 21 27. yet those were not all light without any darkness but they were such who might be deceived and were subject to errour therefore the Apostle warns them of Seducers not withstanding the unction that they have received They had not an infallible judgement but might be mistaken in some of the things of God though they had the Spirit for the Spirit gives himself out