greatest reasons M. St. for your ceremonies Here if ye say for all this proportion betwéene your doings and theirs yet are not we so straightly bounde from the fathers traditions as they bicause the Iewes otherwise had ynowe commaunded them and verie fewe in the newe Testament are left to vs Christians Chriso stome telleth you that Christes Disciples ought to keepe the doctrine of God not of men For otherwise Christ blaming the Pharisers for kéeping the doctrine of men if he had suffered his Disciples to kéepe any doctrine of men they woulde haue replyed that wherein he reprehended them hée himselfe was culpable If nowe the Disciples bée bounde to this rule are not your Priestes also Yea are not all Christians bound thereto not to worship God with doctrines of men As for the doctrine of Christ to be euen as full yea and much fuller than was theirs for all it hath not your ceremonies Chrisostome sayth Omnia enim Euangelium continet c. For the Gospell conteyneth all things both present and to come the honor of God godlinesse faith yea al things are shutte vp togither in the worde of Preaching c. For euen as the cryer proclaymeth to all that be at the assemblie euen so sayeth hée doe wee publikely preache After this sorte that we adde nothing but preach onely those things whiche wee haue hearde for that is the vertue of the cryer to prosecute all things truely that he is trusted with not to put to nor alter nor take away anie thing Whiche is so haynous a faulte that from hence as Saint Ambrose sayeth the Deuill gat the first holde when our first mother Eue did but a little alter in telling the wordes of God to the serpent Whervpon we learne sayth he that we ought to ioyne nothing to the commaundement no not to make vs the more warie For if thou puttest too or drawest away any thing it appeareth to be a kinde of transgression of the commaundement And that the pure and simple forme of the commaundement is to be kepte vve muste followe the fashion of witnesse bearing Commonly a witnesse while he putteth too some thing of his owne de uising to the manner of the deedes doing he stayneth with a peece of a lie the whole credite of the witnesse For heere at the first shewe what offence hath it that the woman added Nor ye shall touche any whitte of it for God had not sayde ye shall not touche but ye shall not eate But for all that heereon came the beginning of the fall For the wordes that shee added eyther shee added them as superfluous or adding them of hir owne shee thought that the commandement of God was but halfe perfecte as you speake of Gods worde and the infancie of Christes Churche in the primitiue state therof while it was yet without your additions The treatise therfore of this present lecture teacheth vs that we ought not to withdraw any thing from the commaundements of God nor adde thereto For if Iohn gaue iudgement on this writing If any sayth he shal adde to these things God shall adde to him the plagues that are written in this booke and if any man shall minishe of the wordes of this booke of this prophesie God shall take away his parte out of the booke of life howe muche more muste no man withdrawe from Gods commaundements This sayth S. Ambrose to all your vnwritten verities and loades of ceremonies all beyonde and many agaynst the worde and commaundement of god Therefore I may safely for al doctrine say with S. Aug. if it be his senteÌ„ce VVhatsoeuer ye heere alleaged out of the scriptures let that sauour well vnto you whatsoeuer is besides the scripture flye it least ye wander in a cloude Lâ—…t vs not make saythe he religion of oure owne fantasies for what truth soeuer it be it is better than all that we can deuise after our will who soeuer be the deuyser howe wyse howe holye howe greate soeuer he were We muste despise him as S. Augustine saythe on this versicle Effusus est contemptus super principes c. VVhye were they contemned bicause they declared an other thing who are contemned those that are accursed For whosoeuer shall declare any other thing than that ye haue receyued let him be accursed c. Are they Princes are they learned are they great are they precious stones VVhat wilte thou call them more are they Angels and yet if it were an Angel from heauen that should declare ought vnto you besides that ye haue receyued let hym be accursed And are your Priests or Pope more priuileged héerein than are the heauenly Angels if he be a Prince as he pretendeth by his crownes if he be learned as he sayth his brest is the closet of all learning thoughe indéede many Popes haue béene as simple Clerkes as euen the simplest minister in all Englande whose lacke of learning so often ye rayle vpoÌ„ if he were neuer so great as he calleth him selfe Pontificem maximum the greatest Byshop were he a precious stone him selfe as in his Pontificalibâ—…s he is all to be dashte with precious stones Yea were he an angell that came from heauen as he is but a man that came from earth yet for all this if your Pope make ceremonies and establish them for necessary doctrine of religion besides the word of God then is euen he all you that so maynteyne them before God accursed and so to be counted as accursed howe faste soeuer wyth Booke Bell and Candle he curse other that forsake him and his accursed ceremonies And haue not we then good cause to refuse them séeme they ueuer so plausible But as S. Augustine sayth of mans doctrine The saying of man seemeth to haue reason for it as the Papistes alleage many goodly reasons for them tyll it be layde to the diuine knowledge but when the lye that is mans doctrine omnis homâ—… mendax euery man is alyer shall approche to the truthe it is deuoured and perisheth euen as towe layde to the fyre And all the opinions of falshoode which now are called Idols bycause they be feigned and forged shall be vtterly wasted away And this is their verye destruction that as Gamaliell sayde they be not of God Demaunde of them this question for their doctrines An ex Deo sint an ex hominibus whether they be of God or of men and ye shall pose them as Chryst posed the Phariseis For euen as Ise melteth at the rayes of the cleare sunne so these ceremonies waste away and léese their estimation whersoeuer the word of God beginneth to take place and are maynteyned onely where the worde of God is kepte in hucker mucker and the people in ignoraunce beléeuing these ceremonies to be of as muche yea of muche more force than the worde of god And therfore as Eckius Piggiâ—…s Câ—…ingius Peresâ—…us Canus Fisher Petruâ—… a Sâ—… Cocleuâ—… Catharinus Hosius Alphonsus
ordinarie Glose sayth Nota quanâ—… assidâ—…itate legere debent Sacerdotes câ—… assidue legant reges Lectio ipsa est lux vitâ—… vnde verba qua ego loquor spiritus vita sunt Note with howe muche continuaunce the Priestes ought to reade the worde of God when Kings should reade it continually The reading is it selfe the lyghte and the life whereuppon sayth Christe the words which I speake are spirite and life Here M. Stapleton the lyfe lyes not as you sayde right nowe in the Priests exposition but in the word it selfe and the continuall reading thereof wherein not onely the Priest but the Prince is a kynde of Maister But are ye not right sure none of this is there neyther ye were best to say so for I perceyue ye haue an excellente grace to face downe a matter bée it neuer so playne and open Let vs nowe come to the fourthe and laste fault that he gathereth against the Bishop in this diuision whiche is also an vntruth as he saith in his margin the place of the Deuteronomie flady belied and adding this vnto the other before he saith This therfore may wel stand for an other vntruth as also that which immediatly you alleage out of Deu. 13. for in al that chapter or in any other of that booke there is no such worde to be founde as you talke of Uerily I beléeue our student M. St. had for studied himself in a lasie slumber and wrote this nodding half a sléepe for ful awake for pure shame he would neuer haue suffred such lewd lyes to scape his pen come in dropping thus one in an others necke as though he were at a poynte he cared not what he sayd neither against the playne truth nor against himselfe much lesse against the bishop Euery worde that the B. rehearseth in the last end of this diuision is fâ—…uÌ„d plainly exprest in the xiij and â–ª 17. of Deut. which chapters the Bishop quoted The wordes of punishing teachers of falâ—…e and superstitious religion and idolatrie in the former side of the leaf he grauÌ„teth himself to be in Deut. the. 13. Notwithstanding he forgetteth straight wayes what he sayd affirmeth on the other side of the leaf that there is no such word to be found But as he trippeth on the truth in the first side so on the other side of the same leaf he flatly falleth into a flat lye in both he tumbleth into a foule contradiction Moreouer in both sides he graunteth that by the. 13. of the Deut. The prince by his authoritie may punish teachers of falâ—…e religion superstition and idolatrie And may he do it withoute examining whether the doctrine wherewith the teacher is charged be true or false and being false whether he taught it or no Suche may be the order in the Popes consistorie but in Gods Courtes it is farre otherwise For God commaundeth Deut. 17. as the Bishop auouched the Prince when any is denounced vnto him to haue taught any false religion that he make diligent examination Quia noâ—… est procedendum ad sententiam sayth Lyra vpon these wordes fine diligeÌ„ti examinatione praeuia bicause he must not procede to giue sentence without diligent examination had before And this beeing found by the Princes diligent examination that he hath taughte false religion he shall be put to deathe The Bishoppes woordes comprehende all this The laste wordes also of the Bishops diuision to wete Et aufâ—…res malum de medio tui And thou shalt take away euil from among thee Are they not plainly set foorth in both those chapters So that a man might wonder that knewe not well Master Stapletons impudencie seeing that all the poyntes that the Bishoppe speaketh of in the later parte of this Diuision in the places of the Deuter â–ª aboue mencioned are so manifestly expressed with what face M. Stapleton can so boldly affirme that in al the â–ª 13. chapter or any other of that boke ther is no such word to be found as the bishop talketh of And thus with more than a full messe of notorious vntruthes to returne your owne conclusion M. Stapl. moste worthyly vpon your selfe ye haue furnished the firste seruice brought yet to the table concerning the principal matter howbeit perhappes though this be verie course yet you haue fine dishes and dayntie cates comming after Lette vs then proceede And as he sayth in the entrance of this diuision Go on I say in Gods name M. St. and prosecute your plea stoutely God send ye good speede and so he doth euen such as you and the honestie of your cause deserue and at the first entrie of your plea causeth you and your clerkly and honest dealing forthwith to your high commendation so to appeare that euen the firste authoritie that ye handle of all the holy Scripture playnly discouereth you and causeth you to be espied and openeth as well your fidelitie as the weakenes of youre whole cause the which euen with youre owne firste Counter blast is quite ouerblowen So fitly M. St. al these your owne words do serue against your selfe Diuision 11. IN this diuision the Byshop bringeth for his purpose two things first he alleageth generally that the beste and moste godly princes that euer gouerned Gods people did perceiue and rightly vnderstand that to be Gods will that they haue an especiall regarde and care for the ordering and setting foorth of Gods true Religion and therefore vsed great diligence with feruent zeale to performe and accomplishe the same Secondly for proofe héereof he entreth into his ensamples of the olde Testament beginning with Moyses that he was not the chiefe Priest or Byshop but the supreme gouernour or Prince and as chiefe gouernoure had the ordering of religion whiche he dutifully executed with great zeale and care To the former parte and generall assertion of the Bishop M. Stapleton only answereth by a marginall note saying Regarde and chiefe rule care and supreme gouernement are two diuers things â–ª Nowe forsoothe a solemne studied answere of a student in diuinitie he is a silly wise man that vnderstoode not thus muche before without this marginal note Too simple were he in déed that séeth they be not al one as he hath simply set them out But he that complained so late of curtalling and leauing out a materiall parte of the sentence whiche dooing he calleth vnfaithfulnesse sée howe vnfaithfully he hoffeth and curtalleth the Bishoppes sentence The Bishop spake not of simple care and reregarde but of an especiall care and regarde for the ordering setting foorth of Gods true religion With which assertion M. Stap. findeth no fault neither â—…y any worde goeth about to improue it and so sheweth himselfe to agrée therewith and by silence to confesse the truth thereof Now therefore let vs resolue the Bishops assertion and then consider thereon The Bishops assertion hath these thrée partes First that godly Princes ought to order and set forth Gods true
This worthie Champion ibid. Of his noble worke and of his noble holy martyr ibid. This worthie article ibid. Like to capitaine Kets tree of reformation ibid. Ye make your reckoning without your hoste 68. a. Your reformation or rather deformation 68 b. Master Hornes foolish figuratiue diuinitie 69. a. The great weight of so mightie a proufe 69. b. Master Horne of his great gentlenesse 69. b. These mē make a very VVelshmans hose of Gods word 70. a So aptly and truly you alleage you doctors 73. b. This good Antiquarie and Chronographer 76. b. Gayly and iolilie triumpheth 77. a. Verie good stuffe as good pardie as master Hornes owne booke and as clerkely and as faythfully handled 77. a. O what a craftie Cooper smooth Ioiner is M. Horne 77. b. Your handsome holy dealing 78. a. You are worthie exceeding thankes 78. a. A'iolie marginall note 78. a. O more than childishe folly 78. a. That craftie Cooper ibid. As wise as by the Metaphore of a Cowe to conclude a saddle for as well doth a saddle fit a Cowe 78. b. Such beggerly shifts ibid. Ye haue demeaned your selfe so clerkly and skilfully ibid. Such a personage as ye counterfait 80. a. This blessed Martyr ibid. Ye are a very poore silly Clarke ibid. M. Foxe will not suffer ye to walke post alone ibid. That I may a little roll in your rayling rhetoricke ibid. Your dearlings the Grecians 80. b. Seeing ye deale so freely and so liberally 81. a. Ye haue iuggled in one 82. a. Ye haue so craftily conueyed your galles 82. a. Your darke sconce a sconce of dimme light 82. a. The new pretended clergie the pretended Bishops 84. a. To all this and all other his frumpes and scoffes he may be aunswered with his owne wordes Modestia vestra M Horne not a sit omnibus hominibus Let your modestie M. Stapleton be knowne to all men 435. b. His owne obiection of bragging This is but an impudent facing and bragging 4. a. His fourth common place of bragging In his first Preface NOt beeing able to alleage any authour that maketh not for vs pag. 7. Doe what ye can c. 15. You haue in this replie a iust and a full defence 22. I haue replyed throughout 22. I haue not omitted anie one part or parcell 22. I haue aunswered the whole 22. I wishe that the most honourable c. would commaund you to proue it so to the worlde 22. I haue here replied to all and euerie part 22. If truth be on your side ye haue no cause to sticke hereat ▪ c. go through therefore as you haue begonne c. if ye thinke your foundation good c. go through I say c. if ye now draw backe men will laugh you to scorne 23. The dealing of the Catholike writers is so vpright that suche small occasions must be piked c. else against their dealings haue ye nothing to say 18. Your cause I assure you will come forth starke naked feeble and miserable 19. After all this strugling and wrastling agaynst the truth by you and your fellowes master Iewell and the rest the truth is dayly more and more opened illustred and confirmed and your contrarie doctrine is or ought to bee disgraced and brought in vtter discredite 8. In the seconde preface I VVas fully purposed hauing so largely prouoked suche sharpe aduersaries especially master Iewel for a season to rest me and to stande at mine owne defence if any woulde charge me 24. I haue shaped to the whole booke a whole and full Replie wherein I rather feare I haue sayd to much than to litle 25. Thy religion is but a bare name of religion and no religion in deede 27. These be such absurdities as euery man of meane consideration seeth and abhorreth 28. The primacie of the Bishop of Rome is euidently here proued 28. Master Hornes whole aunswere is but as it were a vayne blast 29. The sea Apostolike is the fountaine and welspring of all vnitie in the Catholike faith 33. Neither shall we euer finde any cause of good and sufficient contentation till we returne thither 35. In the answere to the Bishops Preface AS I assuredly vnderstande that the reuerende father my Lorde Abbate of VVestminster fol. 1. a. But this may I boldly say and I doubt nothing to proue it that in all his booke there is not as much as one worde of Scripture one Doctor one Councell general or prouincial not the practise of any one countrey throughout the world counted Catholike that maketh for such kinde of regimēt as master Horne auoucheth nor any one maner of proufe that hath any weight or pith in the world to perswade I will not say master Feckenham but any other of much lesse wit learning and experience 3. a. I say master Horne commeth not once nighe the principall matter in question 3. a. I say further in case we remoue and sequester all other proufes on our side that M. Horne shall by the verie same fathers Councels and other authorities by himselfe producted so be ouerthrowne in the chief and capitall question vnto the which he cōmeth not nigh as a mā might say by 1000. miles that his own cōpany may haue iust cause to feare c. 3. a I say and master Feckenham wil also say that euen M. Horne himselfe retreateth so farre backe c. 3. b. The premisses then being true and of our side abundantly proued and better to be proued as occasion shall serue as nothing can effectually be brought against them 4. a. Ye haue not no nor ye can not proue any such matters 4. b. In the first booke I Must be so bolde by your leaue as plainlie and bluntlie to go to worke with you as I haue done before with master Grindall and master Iewell 7. b. The Queene cannot make you Lord Bishop of VVinchester as I haue otherwhere sufficiently proued in the Fortresse of of our first faith annexed to venerable Bede 8. a. Luther and Caluine and other being therewith pressed were so messhed and bewrapped therein that they could not in this world wite what to say thereto answering this that they wist nere what nor at what point to holde them 8. a. The Protestants wonderfully troubled about the question of the continuall succession of Bishops 8. a. VVhat haue ye to iustifie your cause 8. b. Master Horne can not defende and maintaine his herisies nor himselfe to be a Bishop by anie law of the realme 9. a. The Catholikes not suffered to replie least their aduersaries weakenesse should as it would haue done in deede and now daylie doth God bee praysed euidently and openly haue beene disciphered and disclosed 13. a. I dare vndertake that not onely master Feckenham but manie mo that nowe refuse shall moste gladly take the saide othe 31. a. VVhat should I reason further with this man. 32. b. Notwithstanding all your great bragges and this your clerkly booke ye knowe not nor neuer shall know but that the
VVorcester 36. b. 37. a An Inuectiue against heresie that it openeth the truth 37. a A comparison of the ignoraunce of thâ—… greatest learned men among the Papists in king Henryes dayes and the cleare knowledge that the Louanists haue nâ—…we 38 a. b. Master Feckenham his repentaunce for confessing the Kings title of supremacie 38. b. A biâ—… quarell at the Bishop for calling this sentence of the Booke of Wisedome In 〈◊〉 ammam non introâ—…it sapientia A sentence of the holy ghost Whervpon he concludeth a discorde in the Protestants writing 39. a. Where he should replie 39. b. 40. a To the Bishops answere he aunswereth not a worde but séeketh starting holes out of another aunswere that he threapeth on the Bishop to haue made before to chalenge him thereby with falshood as being variable in his aunsweres and so aunswering nothing runneth quite from the matter In steade of aunswere in the Bishops argument out of Deut. 13. and. 17. he runneth to a néedelesse proufe that Heresie is a very Idoll And once againe that we haue no warrant by act of Parliament for mariage of ministers for oure doctrine of the Sacrament for our wrytinges and preachings 42. a. When he should aunswere in the ensample of Iosue he is in hand with M. D. Harding and the Apologie with M. Dorman and M. Nowell quarelling for ciphers in misquoting for 〈◊〉 maâ—…er Dâ—…rmans theâ—…tes for laye mens presumption to go before Priestes for altering religion at the conuocation 46. b. Challenging the Bishop for running at randon from the marke and willing the Reader to regarde the marke he setteth vp of purpose ix false markes nothing nere the issue in question betwene the Bishop and M. Feck and vnder pretence of those nine markes runneth himselfe at randon into aboue xix impertinent matters of the Iewes acknowledging one high Priest of altering religion of the auncientnesse of Poperie 53. b. of the Priests othe on their Priesthood of abandoning the Pope and general councels of the authoritie of the Scriptures of the determining heresies by them of foraigne authoritie of bestowing ecclesiastical liuings Of Bishops letters patents of restraining their iurisdiction of inhibiting from preaching of payment of tenthes and first fruites of the priuilege of the heathen priestes of Egypt of writing the Queenes title of Priestes receiuing the othe of exempting the nobilitie of a woman Prince and in the ende of all this of Robin Hood and little Iohn and bicause he shooteth at these markes he sayth he hath shot awrie like a blinde man. 54. a. b. 55. a. Where he shoulde directly aunswere to that wherewith master Feckenham is by the Bishop charged for refusing all the prooues of the olde Testament to play the part of a Donatist Master Stapleton snatcheth herevpon occasion to runne out from his matter and to gather togither first a great rabble partly of heresies partly of no heresies to charge vs withall and then trauayleth to heape vp a number of poynts labouring thereby to proue the Protestants to be Donatists medling by this occasion with euery matter that he thought he might enlarge his booke withall with sectes and diuisions with bragging of multitudes with viciousnesse of life of tying the Church to this or that place of corrupting the fathers of visions and myracles of vaunting of Councels of a generall Apostacie of beginning and continuance of doctrine and Bishops of complayning of good Princes and praysing of ill of defacing the Sacraments and incredible crueltie of the Emperours lawes and the holye Gospels of murthering others and themselues of false martyrs all which sauing his long discourse of thrée or foure pages agaynst master Foxes booke which I remitte to him to be answered is aunswered for his importunitie sake though much of it be more fullie aunswered by others and also quite extrauagant from the matter in hande 57. 58. 59. 60. 61. 62. Fol. 65. He chalengeth vs to be blasphemers he is in hande with contempt of the number of the sacraments with prouinciall and generall Councels with another fling at M. Foxes booke of Martyrs about the articles of Sir Thomas Hitton priest 〈◊〉 Sir Iohn Oldcastle Knight the Lorde of Cobham for putting of heretikes to death for compelling to receyue the fayth for manslaughter 66. a. b. Once againe he is in hande with his olde quarell of Images Idols and the Crosse. 68. b. Where he should aunswere to the Bishops allegations out of Nicephorus he letteth them all alone and medleth with other matters nothing to the purpose as with Michael Paleologus Emperour of Greece with thalenging the Grecians for heresies with the heresie of the holy ghost to proceede onely from the father and not from the sonne with the Councell at Lions with the accordment betwene the Grecians and the Latine Church with their reuolt from the same with the spite of the Greeke Bishops From thence he runneth to other matters rayling on the Authour of the Homelie agaynst Idolatrie for calling Michael â–ª Theodorus about his depriuing and funerals that the question of Images was not mooued at the Councell of Lions of the setting vp and continuance of Images in the Greeke Church From hence he runneth to quarelling about the names of Valence and Valentinian and of his and Theodosius his lawe agaynst the picture of the Crosse. Against Bishop Iewel for citing it out of Crinitus simplie as the same Crinitus doth Hereon he entreth into a generall inuectiue agaynst the reading of the Homelies nowe â—…et forth and falleth in praysing of the Homelies in the Popish Church 76. b. 77. a. In steade of aunswering to the Bishops argument out of Saint Paule and Chrysostomes allegation thereon he is in hande againe with master Foxe for setting forth the doyngs of Doctour VVesalian with the Bishop to be but a poore Clearke with the aduauncing of Bishop VVhite and Bishop Gardiner with chalenging the Bishop to be of the Grecians opinion agaynst the proceeding of the holye Ghost from the father and the sonne with the decaye of the Empyre of Greece with a comparison betwéene the decay of Hierusalem besieged at Easter by the Romaynes and the Captiuitie of Constantinople besieged at VVhitsontide by the Turkes with the poynting of Gods â—…ynger wyth the Realmes of Fraunce Scotlande Germanie with the vaunting of his owne plaine and true going to woorke with Michaell and Andronicus once againe and none of all these things eyther aunswering the Bishop or perteyning to the question Last of al where he taketh on him to set downe the state of the question he setteth vp many newe questions neyther in hand betwéene the Bishop and master Feckenham nor any whit defended by vs but méere slaunders of the Papistes of the Princes preaching the woorde of God ministring the Sacraments binding and losing c. Thus handsomely hath he kept himselfe close to the matter and yet euer he crieth haue an eye to the marke and willeth vs still to call for the question and yet himselfe hath thus
digressed from it for otherwise ye must vnderstande his bigge Counterblast had béene but a verie shorte and little puffe of wind But to all this impertinent stuffe though the most of it for his importunitie be aunswered at large I answere it with his owne wordes fol. 4. Much labour vainely and ydly employed with tedious and infinit talke and babling al from the purpose out of the matter which ought specially to haue bene iustified 4. His seuenth common place of false translations â–ª THe reason why I place this among his other common places is that although he cite fewe allegations in this first booke for the Popes supremacie and therefore coulde not be much noted here of this fault yet in his other bookes following he is full of false translations or at the leastwise so captions translations that he might séeme any wayes to further his purpose thereby His ovvne obiection MAster Horne doth not faythfully but most corruptly and falsly alleage the authours wordes and vseth his owne in steade of theirs and to such as he truely rehearseth he giueth an vnmeete and vnprofitable sense of his owne making Interpreting a sentence out of the storie of Magdeburge wrested as spoken agaynst vs defending the supreme gouernment of the Quéenes Maiestie where it was spoken of a Popishe supremacie he translateth Non sint capita Ecclesiae They may not be heads of the Church in no cafe Which wordes in no case as though it denied all kinde of supremacie is his owne addition and not his Authours wordes fol. 22. a. To pretende a iolie antiquitie and authoritie for the Popish errour of penance and that it is a Sacrament alleaging S. Aâ—…g whose words are these Nunquid enim perfecte de Trinitate tractatuÌ„ est anteque oblatrarent Ariant nuÌ„quid perfecte de peniteÌ„tia tractaâ—… est anteque obsistereÌ„t Nouatiani sic non c. VVas the matter of the Trinitie throughly discussed before that the Arrians barked agaynst it Concerning repentance was it euer throughly handled before the Nouatians withstoode it c. which master Stapleton translateth the Sacrament of penance was neuer throughly handled c. Where Saint Augustine nameth not penance but repetance neyther speaketh he of any Sacrament at all but onely sayth de poenitenâ—…a of repentance 37. b. Where the Bishop alleaged King Dauids actes to inferre a supreme gouernment Master Stapleton aunswering by this sentence 1. Par. 24. Ut ingrediantur domum dei iuxta ritum suum sub manu Aaron patris eorum That they should enter into the house of God according to their rite or maner vnder the hande of Aaron their father to make the matter sâ—…me to serue his turne the better he Englisheth these later wordes Sub manu patris Aaron Vnder the spirituall gouernment of their spirituall father and his successors the hie Priests which wordes his text hath not Translating the wordes that he hath picked out of an Epistle of Theodosius that which is there spoken of a particular controuersie of the â—…ayth and the Priests then about the Bishop of Constantinoples deposition and appeale he translateth locum ac faâ—…ultatem habeat de fide ac sacerdotibuâ—… iudicare That he may haue place and libertie to giue iudgement in such matters as concerne faith and priests As though it were spoken simplie of all such matters where his allegation hath neyther these generall wordes suche matters as concerne nor any such generall meaning onely the Emperour Ualentinian writeth to Theodosius being also Emperour that the Bishop of Rome may haue place and licence to iudge of the fayth and the Priestes meaning of that controuersie of the fayth that was then sproong vp and the quarell about Flauianus for so the ende of the sentence in expresse wordes expoundeth it selfe Which wordes master Stap. leaueth out least his false and captious translation should be espied His ovvne obiections of contradictions THese fellowes iarre alwayes among themselues and in all their doctrines fall into such poynts of discorde that in place of vniforme tuning they ruffle vs vp a blacke sanctus Quo teneam 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 prâ—…tea nodâ—… His eight common place of contradictions to him self and his fellovves THis controuersie sayth he of the supremacie is the only matter the Papists stand in which if it were so then they admitte all other thingâ—… and stand not in them but straight he contraryâ—…th his owne tale saying other matters in controuersie are not so oppressed Ergo they be pressed and the Papistes stande in them â–ª 1. Pref. pag. 2. The Princes inuesturing of Bishops is but an impertinent matter And yet anon he sayth The inuestiture of Bishops is a matter quite destroying the Princes supremacie He often complayneth that the title of King Henrie the eight and King Edwarde the â—…ixt was so simple and large that it was faine to be mollified with the Queenes title And yet he sayth in his 2. Preface Pag. 34. the Queenes title hath more added than theirs and that of greatest importance He sayth Princes may meddle and deale with ecclesiasticall causes which neither master Feckenham nor any Catholike will greatly contende with him in 4. a. Where not onely the contrarie is most apparant but also Cardinall Hosiâ—… will not suffer Princes so muche as Mouere sermoneÌ„ To moue any talke of ecclesiastical matters Fol. 1â—… b. He sayth the matters debated in the disputation at Westminster were but three the seruice in English the alteration of ceremonies and the Sacrifice propiciatorie But in the next page where he sayth there woulde haue beene more deliberation he addeth a fourth the controuersie of the supremacie 13 2. He sayth those matters that were debated were nothing touching fayth and yet in the page before he onely sayd the first and the seconde be no matters of fayth He sayth also they were no principall matters but dependant and accessorie And yet in the first he sayth of the supremacie that it is of such and so great importance as no matter more nowe in controuersie and for the other poyntes who séeth not what principall matters otherwhiles they will make these séeme to be especially the sacrifice of the Masse for the whiche they burned so fast in the late raigne of Quéene Marie when this was one of their first and chiefest questions Againe that the Papistes be most obedient subiects to the Queenes Maiestie he craketh almost in euery place And yet about this disputation he confesseth that eueÌ„ in a trifling matter they disobeyed the Queenes commaundement 11. b. Fol. 29. a. b. Christian Princes ciuill gouernment reacheth and tendeth to this ende to preserue their subiects from outwarde and inwarde iniuries oppressions and enemies to prouide for their safetie quietnesse for their welth abundance and prosperous maintenance and no further What is here more than in a Sarasin Prince But anon he sayth Christian Princes most of all are muche more bounde to employ themselues to their possibilitie towarde the tuition and defence furtherance and amplification of
the people ignorant least they should discerne them And ye haue sayd of your hypocritiall errours of your â—…ayned myracles and legends of lies latebunt quam diu pâ—…rerunt vâ—…lebunt apud â–ª 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 mendaciâ—… The ignorant people will ostéeme such lying to â—…es And therfore we may well returne your conclusion on your selfe that ye be those false Prophets and lying masters such as Saint Peter spake of bringing in wicked and damnable sects God giue them grace which are deceyued by you so well to knowe you as we that do examine your writings haue good cause to know you And thus your wordes of course fathered as ye call it in a luskie lane of some indiuiduum vagum a certaine Protestant of late dayes and for witnesse hereof aske your fellow if it be not so howe well in euery poynt they appeare that as they say the foxe was the first finder to be your owne tootoo open sayinges and doynges to charge vs withall a Gods name hardily let all the worlde be iudge His obiecting of stragling from the matter fo 4. a. Of false alleaging his Authours wordes fol. 5. b. Of omitting and concealing circumstances fol. 7. a. Of deepe silence to aunswere the pith of the matter fol. 8. a. Of obiecting fleshly pleasures fol. 8. b. Of quarelling that our Bishops be no Bishops fol. 9. a. b. Of passing good maners for misreporâ—…ing n. a. Of obiecting conspiracies and sedition fol. 15. 16. 17. 18. 19. 20. 21. 22. 23. 24. 25. 26. 27. Remoue them with a writte of returne to the Papists themselues and then they are fully answered This lo at the least sayth M. St. fol. 37. b. heresie worketh in the Church that it maketh the truth to be more certenly knowne and more firmely and stedfastly afterwarde kept so sayth S. Augustine the matter of the Trinitie was neuer well discussed till the Arrians barked agaynst it c. This is truer M. St. than eyther ye wene or would The experience whereof is dayly to be séene in the Papists defending their errors and impugning the truth in their subtile practises in their tyrannicall inquisitions and cruel torments yea euen in this yours and your fellowes volumes striuing to obscure and deface the truth but all these steps notwithstanding the truth is and shal be more and more set forth the Popish errors â—…sse and lesse begutle vs and the kingdome of Antichrist detected and forsaken Fol. 40. a. M. St. telleth vs that S. Greg. Nazianzen saith Verum est ê™ vnum est mendaciuÌ„ auteÌ„ est multiplex The thing which is true is alwayes one like vnto it selfe whereas the lie the cloked and counterfeyt thing is in it selfe variable and diuerse By the which rule here giuen of so learned and graue a father I am here put to knowledge that the Papists not being content with the onely worde of God alwayes one and like it selfe but ioyning thereto mens variable and diuerse vnwritten verities That the Papistes being not content with the true spirituall worship of one God alwayes one like himselfe not with one mediator Iesus Christ but yéelding spirituall worship to Saints and Saints pictures besides God and making other variable and diuerse mediators to God besides Christ that the Papists being not content with the only merites satisfaction of Christs death always one and like itselfe â–ª but deuising variable and diuerse Masses Diriges Pilgrimages and satisfactions besides being not content with the flat scripture alwayes one and like it selfe that testifieth only faith in christ to be the meanes of appreheÌ„ding our iustification but adding variable diuerse infinit workâ—… of their own to deserue their iustification by being not content with the only title profession of Christianitie alwayes one 〈◊〉 like 〈◊〉 but sâ—…tting vp variable diuerse feas professioÌ„s religions names besides be but cloked counterleyy liers â–ª as Greg Nazâ—…n hath most truly said And thus ye sée M. St. how you citing falsly this sentence to proue the â—…variable 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 your selfe on â–ª the thumbes Fol. 40. b. Let the King sayth master Stapleton reode on Gods name not onely that booke but all the Bible beside it is a worthie studie for him but let him beware least this sweete honie be not turned into poyson to him c. What wordes are here that we say not also yea his permission of Princes to read and studie the Bible â–ª is our most earnest prayer and exhortation And they whatsoeuer they would seeme nowe to pretende bicause they can no longer keepe it vnder their bushell it is full sore agaynst their heart that Princes should read or studie it Otherwise why suffred they not Princes to giue them selues to so woorthie and commendable a studie heretofore And nowe that they can kéepe it in no longer who it is that turneth this sweete honie of Gods worde into poyson is easie to iudge Whether hée that giueth bread to the hungrie bringing forth the whole loafe of the onely pure wheate and willeth them that are to be fedde therewith to sée to view to féelâ—… the whole and in seasonable time breaketh it to his fellow seruants before their faces that they may fully refresh their hungrie seules or he that beateth his fellowe seruaunts hydeth the loafe from them and if he must néedes giue them some mingleth the pure wheate with his owne branne and that worse is with Darnell and more of that by thrée halues than of the wheate and will néedes haue the receyuer blindfolded nor will suffer him to take it in his owne handes but by gobbet meale thrust it into his mouth nor will let the partie sée what in this sort he crammes him with as though he were worse than the Capon in a coupe and yet for all this will beare him in hande it is the true bread Whether of these twaine be the likelier to giue this poysoned bread no man that hath any witte but will giue a shrewde ayme As for false translations false dangerous and damnable gloses wherewith master St. sayth we haue corrupted and watred the same and made it as it were of pleasant wine most soure vinegar it is so euident on his owne part that the Papistes haue so vsed the Scripture and that so shamefully that it séemeth he is past shame that he dare once mencion it and yet he obiecteth it to vs that admit the expresse scripture without any gloses at all Take heede to your selfe Maister Horne for I say to you that you and your fellowes teache false and superstitious religion manie and detestable heresies and so withall playne idolatrie Blot out these wordes Maister Horne and put in Maister Stapleton and then it is truely sayd Although wée not only say it but proue it also And therfore you and your felowes M. Stapleton had nede to take hede thereto fol 42. a. VVe say you are wicked deprauers of religion c. VVe say ye are as great enimies as euer the Church of Christ had
c. VVe say ye be they that haue contemned Christs sacramentes we saye further that not onely the generall Councell of Trent but that the whole Church hath condemned your opinions These woordes of course are answered in their places fol. 56 a He telleth vs we would mayster and rule oure Princes bicause we limit their rule to Gods worde and that wée referre the interpretation of Gods woorde to oure selues that wee make therof a welshe mans hose Whiche woordes of course are answered in their places and are so manifest the dooings of the Papists and so farre from touching vs that it is maruell with what face he could reherse suche things But such is the propretie of impudencie to obiect that to other wherein he is most culpable him selfe fol. 70. VVe plainly say this kind of supremacie is directly against Gods worde so he sayd before and so let him say sâ—…il so long as he doth but say so and can neuer proue it These and suche like his sayings good reader as thou séest them but mere words of course so thou shalt fynd them swarme thorow â—…ut all his booke and if any of them be not answered for thou séest I cut them off for breuitie sake answere then them as thou thinkest good easy answer God wote may serue them and his owne wordes serue for all returned on him selfe 〈◊〉 nomine de 〈◊〉 fubula narratur change but the name and the tale is tolde of thee Fol. 31. b. In the meane season for these and all his other wordes of course I will say to him againe as he sayth to the Bishop Neither vvill I thanke you for bringing to our hands so good stuff to proue our principal purpose by but say herein to you as S. Aug. sayd in the lyke case to the Donatists alleaging the workes of Optatus by whiche they were euen confounded and the catholikes cause maruellously furthered Neâ—…mmen ipsis â–ª c. Neyther doo wee yet thanke them for their so doing but rather God for that they shoulde bring foorth and vtter eyther by talke or by alleaging all those thinges for our matter the truth forced them not any charitie inuited them And so truly M. Stapleton that you haue alleaged all this and other lyke wordes of course when they are 〈◊〉 compensed to you you are euen so confounded by them that it had ben better for your cause ye had not so muche vsed them but that ye brought suche good stuffe to our handes the truth of our cause forceth you not any good will to our cause or to vs moued you Maister Stapletons ovvne vvords returned to him selfe for all these his Common places MOderate your penne better reporte your authors more syncerely translate your allegations more truely laye downe the whole sentence without concealing of such matter as ouerthroweth your purpose say no more than ye fynd in stories slander not your betters deale more aduisedly and vprightly séek not out so often bymatters starting holes quarell not somuch about trifles of letters syllables escapes in printing raile not so bitterly scoffe not so LuciaÌ„like boast vaunt not with such defacings of persons and outfacings of the matter leaue your vain rhetorik of Copia verboruÌ„ and rolling on a letter vse not as ye cal them so many words of course let your tale hang better together without so many contradictions so shall your vntruthes be fewer an other tyme but so wil your cause I assure you M. Sta come starke naked feble and miserable And al your great volume as bare â—…ield as Esops pulde crow as partly may appere by this pretie farâ—…el of some such yeur sentences and ordinarie phrases in a part of the foresayd poyntes and may further be considered what a full and sufficient booke they might make vp of them selues if al the residue throughout all the foure bookes were gathered togither and sorted in their troupes and orders of these your common places But these only shall suffise for this your first booke for a viewe of the rest to shew what good diuinitie of Louaine your volume is most â—…arced withall and what as ye say they shall looke for at your handes Master Stapletons Beadroll and collection of vntruthes vvith a plain and brief ansvver to euery one of them so many as are noted in his fyrste Booke His ovvne chalenge of the Bishop for vntruthes YOur answere is so fraighted and stuffed with falshodes your vntruthes do so swarme and muster all along youre booke that for the quantitie of your treatise you are comparable to Maister Iewell youre vntruthes amounte to the number of sixe hundred fourescore and odde they be so notorious and so many that it pitieth me in your behalf Crocodili lachrymâ—… to remember them but the places be euident and crie corruption and maye by no shifte be denied If my curiositie in noting them displease you lette the vttering of them fyrst displease your selfe then ye will the lesse be displeased with mee You knowe maister Iewell hath led vs this daunce be not angrie Maister Horne if we followe the round 1. Preface pag. 19. The ansvvere to the collection of vntruthes VVinchester If I had not seene a further meaning in his setting foorthe and publishing the booke than he durst playnly vtter Stapleton The first vntruth slaunderous concerning master Feckenhams meaning Bridges Lo euen at the first striking vp of the round what a passing notorious vntruth is here to bee the captain ringleader to all this bande ye may well M. Stapl. not pitie it but pitie youre selfe and be ashamed also to haue so cried out of suche notorious vntruâ—…hes and here to beginne your daunce with this to haue vs look for the lyke to folow the rounde Howe vntrue this is let eche man hardely coniecture and your selfe shew that M. Feckenham durst not say all that he ment oftentimes in excusing him and euen your next vntruth will somewhat declare this further 2 But seing his chief end and principal purpose entended as may be iustly gathered in publishing the booke was to engraffe in the mindes of the subiects a mislikyng of the Queenes Maiestie as thoughe she vsurped a power authoritie in ecclesiasticall matters wherto she hath no right 2 His chiefe ende was farre otherwise as shall appeare You so chalenge this to be an other vntruthe that denying it to be his chiefe ende ye durste not saye but couertly confesse that an ende and purpose of him it was thoughe not the chief end Wherin ye proue that that ye chalenged before for an vntruth to be a truth that he ment more than he durst playnly vtter And yet howsoeuer ye woulde couer his and your meaning here both he in his booke and you in yours also durst plainly vtter that ye mislike hiâ—… Maiesties claime of this supreme authoritie and playnly laye to hir charge vsurpation Howe subiectlike let all true subiectes iudge And sitâ—… this his and youre bookes are
meanes was deliuered as also M. Crispine shuld haue ben but that death preuented him only M. Moreman stubbornly persisting in his errours remained still in the Tower. In this conference M. Feckenham promised to preache as the Bishop truly charged him Of which conference and promise there be yet many on lyue both worshipfull and honeste men to witnesse the same and proue you a lyer M. Stapleton so impudently to denie it You had nothing to say to the contrarie The. 32. vntruth more slaunderous as may wel appeare by this your booke It appéereth thereby right well in déede and shall further appéere that you also had not any greate thyng else to to saye to the contrarie neyther excepting these and suche lyke your brabbling common places For answere I say they ought to take vppon them such gouernment as doth the Quéens maiestie The. 23. vntruth employing a contradiction to youre former aunswere made to Mayster Feckenham as shall appeare The answere is here cited for an vntruthe but for triall it is referred to appeere in an other place on the other side of the leafe in the counterblast and there being cited also bicause nothing is proued but by M. Stapletons hearesay of an other contrarie answere the matter is there againe further deferred to be hearde an other daye when Maister Stapleton shall be occasioned to entreate more at large hereafter vpon the matter wher at the Calends of Gréece it shal be proued both an vntruth and to implie a contradiction The contradiction that he would enforce is betwéen a suborned answer forged to be made in the bishops name which he neuer made and this present answere which the B. maketh so that in déede there is no contradiction at al in his answere bicause the one of them is of their owne making not of his As for the vntruth of the Bishops answere standeth only on M. Stapletons bare saying that it is false and deceyuable And ye must wel weâ—…e that M. Stapl is of suche indifferencie and credence that he would not saye it on his worde if it were not so and therefore in any case ye must beléeue him or else ye marre his reckoning The. 34. 35. 36. 37. vntruths bicause they are the whole matter throughout the eight chapter wherwith he chargeth the Bishop in the answere to the chapter they are at â–ª large answered Besides a number of Master Stapletons vntruthes detected Moyses was not the chief priest or bishop The. 38. vntruth for Moyses was the chiefe Priest as shall be proued Howe this promise shall be proued or the Bishops saying improued to auoyde anticipations repetitons thou must resort to M. Stapletons proues and the answer thervnto The charge of chiefe gouernment ouer Gods people bothe in causes temporall and ecclesiasticall was committed to Iosue The 39. vntruth Iosue had not the supreme gouernement in Ecclesiasticall causes but Eleazarus had it Whether he had it that commaunded Eleazarus in ecclesiasticall matters or Eleazarus that obeyed his commaundement is easie to iudge And notwithstanding any thing that M. Stapleton bringeth beside his bare allegatioÌ„ Iosue had the supreme gouernement therin To Eleazar only belonged the administration of things belonging to the Priests office The. 40. vntruth For beside in all thinges to be doone of Iosue Eleazar should instruct him If this were beside the administration of things belonging to the Priestes office then to administer instruction in any thing vnto the Prince was not the Priests office For if it were belonging to his office why saye you it was beside being conteyned in it But sée your fonde reason the Bishop saith he had not the supreme gouernement but the administration of things belonging to his office yes say you he should instruct the Prince Ergo he had the supreme gouernment of him Neither had he say you that supreme gouernment as his office or belonging to him but besides and not belonging thervnto whyle the questioÌ„ is whether this supreme gouernement belong to the Priests office or to the â–ª Princes office but your self withal exclude it from the Priestes office And thus to nick vp on the score apace ye speak it séemeth ye can not wel tell what Dauid c. the supreme gouernour ouer all estates both of the laitie and of the clergie in all maneâ—… of causes The. 41. vntruth Dauid was not suprme gouernour in all maner causes but suffered the Leuites in Church matters to liue vnder the rule of their high Priest. As though these two might not bothe agrée verie wel togither except it were in such an vsurper as is your Pope As for the Quéenes Maiestie hir hyghnesse claymeth no suche Papaliâ—…ie but suffreth the inferiour ministers to liue vnder the rules of their superior Bishops yet hir supreme gouernment to ouersée that all of them obserue their rules in their vocations is no whit empaired Salomon deposed Abiathar The 42. vntruth for Salomon of his owne authoritie as your argument runneth deposed not Abiathar but executed only the sentence pronounced before by Samuel Gods minister Your selfe confesse the Bishops wordes M. Stapleton nor ye can for shame denie them the Scripture is plaine for them and therfore ye runne from them to the Bishops sense and say not his wordes but his meaning and argument is vntrue therein for he dyd it but not by his owne authoritie but executed Gods sentence as thoughe these were contradictorie to execute Gods sentence in doing it and to doo it by his owne authoritie when all authoritie of any Prince commeth likewyse from God and he is Gods minister and executer thereof and yet withall it is hys owne authoritie bicause the authoritie is giuen him of God thereto Althoughe herein chalenging the B. of one vntruthe ye vtter two vntruthe your self together on a clap First ye say he executed only the sentence pronounced before by Samuel Gods minister Where the texte that afterwarde ye cite fayth not so but to fulfill the wordes of the Lorde whiche he spake ouer the house of Hely in Silo which wordes of the Lorde we fynde out in thâ—… 2. and. 3. chapters of the first booke of the Kinges where the whole story is at large set out and deteâ—…s your falshoode The wordes that doe threaten Hely and his posteritie in the. 2. chapter were pronounced by a Prophet in déede but he is not named the text only sayth Venit auteÌ„ vir dei ad Hely ait ad eum haec dicit Dominus And there came a man of God to Hely and sayd vnto him thus sayth the Lorde c. This Prophet pronounced and was Gods minister therein among other things euen this deposition of Abiathar But this man of God was not Samuell who was at that time as yet but a childe The seconde time was in the next chapter by God him selfe that called Samuell thrée times and the
that vve vvere baptised in Sée what a wicked slaunder to couer your disobediēce ye charge your most gratious prince withall as though she went about to make you renie that fayth ye vvere baptised in And this ye doe euen where ye pretende to kneele on your knees vvith moste humble and lowely submission Sée what cankred hearts ye beare for all your counterfayte crouching If ye knowe M. Stap. the fayth ye were baptised in at least if ye were rightely baptised and be a true Christian man it is not in the name fayth or obedience of the Pope but in the name fayth and obedience of the father the sonne and the holy ghost and this fayth the Q. maiestie goeth so little about to haue you abandon that hir Graces supreme gouernemēt is chiefly directed to this end to haue ye without any superstition error idolatrie or any other pollution therof kéepe maintein it inuiolate as in baptisme ye promised to do and therfore this is not subiect like though ye be on your knees neuer so muche to accuse hir highnesse as to cause ye to abandon the fayth ye were baptised in She requireth ye to kéepe it not abandon it neither on the soden nor at leisure And if this were all the cause of your refusall of obedience as hir Grace neuer denied you it ye doe but slaunder hir so néeded ye not haue runne away nor shew yet such disobedience to hir authoritie since she euer graunted and maynteined the thing ye séeme to craue Howbeit your counterfeite humilitie detecteth it selfe to be very stubborne disobedience And that while ye pretende to craue one thing ye entende another thing And that is ye would be borne with still to refuse her graces supreme authoritie ouer you in Ecclesiasticall causes this is the thing in deede ye meane and ye would the rather be borne withall bicause it is a matter that commeth vpon the sodaine therefore ye can not vpon the sodaine graunt it In déede M. St. ye pretende reason Weightie matters require not to be done on a sodeyne passion but with deliberation ▪ But is this so sodeyne a matter yet vnto you did ye neuer heare of this questiō before haue ye not had leasure to deliberate thereon but who seeth not that and ye had neuer so much leasure this matter would still come vpon the sodeyne to you and of reason ye must haue time to take aduisement vpō it which you will take all at your leasure and so for feare ye should become an obedient subiect vpon the sodeyne ye craue to remayne still vpon deliberation an obstinate enemie But M. St. pretēding this refusall to be for the abandoning of the faith that we were Christened in procéedeth And as we are assured all our auncetours and her Maiesties owne most noble progenitours yea her owne most noble father King Henrie the eight yea that faith which he in a clerkly booke hath most pithily defended and thereby atchieued to him and his and transported as by hereditarie succession the worthie title and stile yet remayning in her Highnesse of the Defendour of the Faith. As ye slaunder most wickedly the Quéenes Maiestie to cause ye to abandon the faith of your baptisme ▪ so ye slaunder not only al our auncestors but that most famouse Prince her highnesse Father K. Henrie the 8. as christened in the faith of the Popes obedience hereof ye say ye are assured when it is most assured most euident false For although our fathers the Q. Maiesties father also yea many of vs our selues the Q. Maiestie also her selfe were borne and baptised when all the errours of poperie or many of them did chiefly abounde yet can no more any one of these be said now to be baptised in those errours that they helde which baptised them if they kept the right formall words of baptisme I baptise thée in the name of the Father of the sonne of the holy Ghost thā in the old time any of their childrē or they themselues could be saide to be baptised in such errours as they helde that were Nouatians Donatists Rogatists Pelagians or any other Heretikes that notwithstāding kept the right element formal words of baptisme Neither can any Papist say now to any that dissuadeth him from his popish errours that he goeth about to will him to abandon the faith wherein he was baptized any more thā a Pelagian or any such Heretike being moued to forsake his heresie could pretēd he were moued to forsake the faith he was baptised in bicause they that baptised him yea his auncesters before him were Pelagians c. Ye should therefore M. St. make your distinction betwene the faith of your baptisme and the faith that your popish Church putteth in diuers erronious pointes of doctrine As for the faith that K. Henrie the 8 ▪ the Q. Maiesties most noble Father set out in the Booke that ye mencion therby labour to stayne the Q. Maiestie as setting out a contrarie faith to her father as you for your parte M. St. shew your extreme malice nothing subiectlike to blemish her highnesse with the famous renown of her father which notwithstanding ye cā not do so for the King her father I answere you howbeit his booke were clerkly yet clerklines is one thing truth is an other what maruel if he thē wrote in defence of your doctrines whē your popish prelates hid the very truth frō him bore him in hand that your falshoodes were truth till it pleased God not to suffer so noble a Prince to be any longer deluded by such false prelates but first in this question after in other according to the measure of his merciful riches reueled the truth vnto him how chance ye speake not of his faith then what clerkly sincere doctrine he set out thē against your Pope And as for the Q. Maiestie herein which is the proper questiō now in hād followeth most zealously the steppes of her highnesse father not wherein he was abused as many other princes were by false teachers but in that he forsooke those errours he abolished those false teachers their captaines vsurped authoritie in that he obeyed the truth reueled to him before all his own clerkly bookes before all worldly glory securitie aduentured himselfe his kingdome against all his enemies in setting forth the truth gouerning his subiects after the word of god Which though it were not so plentifully set forth then nor all wéedes so thoroughly rooted vp by reason of some false Gardiners whom he trusted ouer much howbeit at lēgth thanks be to God he espied them also had procéeded furder if God had lent him furder life yet is he rather to be commended for that he did than to be euil spoken or euell thought of for that he could not throughly bring to passe in his time but left his most vertuouse Sonne King Edwarde to bring to more perfection
be moued from them And neuer so little a motion for M. Feckenham went not ouer farre I warrant you coulde not be made of mercy and consideration without great displeasure taken Ye haue well described the state of your Popes raigne M. Stap. so vnmercyfull an estate and inconsiderate that for description thereof ye doe best as dyd Timantes when he paynted the mourners at the sacrifice of Iphigenia setting out one wéeping another with this another with that heauie visage when he could not deuise a more dolâ—…rous couÌ„tenance he paynted Agamemnon hiding his face with a kerchiefe so you wheÌ„ ye can not sufficiently set foorth those dolefull tymes ye do wisely in that ye omit to expresse them and therein ye expresse them most of all And woulde ye haue lyke mercy and consideration sheshed nowe to the Papistes as the Papistes shewed then to the Protestantes Alas master Stap. if but halfe a quarter of suche extremitie were shewed nowe as was shewed then it woulde goe harder with master Feckenham and other his complices than it dothe No no M. Stap. their chambers their walkes their libertie their ease their fare is nothing like your doÌ„geoÌ„s your stockes your colehouses your famine your racks your gaggs your whipping there rostmeate at a stake that ye gaue the protestants I warrant ye M Fe. lookes not like a ghost nor like a poore scholler of Cambridge or Oxford perchaunce fares better than some studeÌ„ts of diuinitie in Louayne It is easy to discernâ—… M. St. what spirite either religion is of the protestants and the papists euen by this your own note of vnmercifulnesse and mercy and now saith M. St. let vs proceede on to the residue of your booke The fifth Diuision THe Bishop of Winchester after he hath shewed on M. Feckenhams wordes the entent of the Othe and the entent of M. Feckenh booke to be contrarie and therefore what soeuer he offreth in wordes he denieth the same in déedes and in the beginning for ensample dalieth with the Oth about dominions persons thinking therby he escapeth the principall ende of the Othe in this diuision sheweth first how doublie he dealeth in pretending as though the Bishop had forced him to sweare but there was no such Othe offred or required betwéene them â—…rgo A man might well marâ—…aile that he shamed not to pretende such a lie Secondly the Bishop sheweth how M. Feckenham is taken in his owne daliaâ—…ce The Bishops reason is this In that ye graunt to her Highnesse the onely supreme rule ouer the Laye and Ecclesiasticall persons you haue all ready proued withall the causes also euenby a supreme gouernors definition A supreme gouernour or ruler is one who hath to ouerseâ—… guide care prouide order and directe the thinges vnder his gouernment rule to that ende and in those actions which are appointed properly belong to the subiect or thing gouerned But the Queenes Highnesse is by your own coÌ„fession the only supreme gouernour ouer al manner persons Ecclesiasticall c. Ergo Hir highnes hath to ouersee guide care prouide order and direct to that ende and in those actions which are appointed do properly belong to persons Ecclesiasticall And thus concludeth that M. Feckenham grauÌ„ting thus much for fashion sake in generall speache is but a dissembler and in déede denieth the obedience of the person also or els he péeuishly standeth on the distinction of the cause which in full effect he hath graunted alreadie To the first parte M. Stapleton answereth Here is first a worshipfull reason and cause to meruaile at M. Feckenham that he should by writing presently offer him selfe to receyue an Othe bicause he neuer made mention of any suche othe before neither any suche was at any time of him required surely this is as great a cause to wonder as to see a goose go barefoote Ye plainly falsifie the Bishops woordes M. Stapl â–ª he said not that M. Feckenham neuer made mencion of any suche othe before but he saide that he neuer made any motion of such an offer to him So that this declareth both a double dealing of him also a wresting of you But this in eyther of you muste not be wondered at as a rare dealing that in lying and wresting ye be shamelesse bicause it is as common to you as to sée a goose go barefoote and as rare as to heare a barefoote Foxe preach to shod géese in Louaine Secondly to the Bishops argument he saithe But now will he play the worthy Logitian and M. Feckenham will he nill he shal be driuen by fine force of a Logicall definition to graunt the Queene to be supreme head in all causes Ecclesiasticall for that he graunteth hir to be supreme head of all persons both Ecclesiastical and Temporal Bicause saith he the supreme gouernour or ruler is he that ordereth and directeth all actioÌ„s belonging and appointed to the subiectes and thereby enferreth that the Queenes Maiestie is supreme and onely gouernour eueÌ„ in those actions that belong to Ecclesiasticall persons which are causes Ecclesiasticall But as good skill as this man hath in Logike which is correspondent to his diuinitie he hath brought vs forth a faultie and a vitiouse definition For a supreme gouernour is he that hath the chiefe gouernment of the thing gouerned not in those actions that may any way properly belong to the subiect or thing gouerned as M. Horne saithe but in those actions that belong to the ende whereunto the gouernour tendeth VVhich may well be although he haue not the chiefe gouernment in all the actions of the thing gouerned but in such actions as properly appertaine to him as a subiect to that gouernour Although M. Stapl. arguments hitherto haue shewed some tast of his owne great skill in Logike and what a worthie student of Diuinitie he is him selfe the want of which two he vpbraydeth to the Bishop after his prowde scornefull manner yet in this his couÌ„terblast to the Bishops only reason of a supreme gouernours definition he wil further shew what a passing subtile Logitian déepe Deuine he is But alas the mans ill lucke for while he clerkly laboreth striues to bring M. Feckâ—…ham out of the briers he not only wrappeth him the faster in them but so snarleth entangleth him selfe withall that as one all amased he speaketh he wottes not what And goyng about the Bushe wonderfully to worke when he hath all done he hath not onely left the matter where it was against M. Feckenham but hath made it more playne against him selfe also First he reprehendeth the Bishops definition of a gouernour as faultie but his guiltie conscience was so striken that he durst not or he well wist not how to report the definition as it laie but saith that the Bishop defined A supreme gouernour to be one that ordreth and directeth all actions belonging and appoynted to the subiecte Which the B. said not but M. St. who hath altered hacked and
the booke of the lawe your texte sayth not so â—…ir but Describet sibi Denteronomium legis huius in volumine he shall write out this second law in a booke as Edmund Beck a man of your sect truly hath translated This is the least matter saith M. Stapl. and yet this is so great a matter that as a notable reproche he fasteneth it also in the margine as it were with a tenne penny nayle to vse his own phrase M. Hornes vnskilfulnesse â–ª But if M. St. did not play the vnskilfull hypocrite him selfe but had pulled the beame of vnskilfulnesse out of his owne eye he should then haue cleerely séene that the Bishop vsed good skill in citing his text faithfully and he in thus reprâ—…heÌ„ding the Bishop hath shewed so litle skill and so much infidelitie that though he him selfe be paste shame yet M. Feckenham and all his fréendes may well â—…e ashamed of him Ye say saith M. Stapleton the King is commaunded to haue by him the booke of the lawe your text saith not so sir. Forsooth sir the text saith so by your leaue the text hath bothe and therefore it is not the Bishop but you that lie both vnskilfully and also vnfaithfully therein Put on your spectacles reade your text againe and I dare say except your lippes hang in your lighte ye shall within sixe woordes following finde these woordes Et habebit secum and he shall haue it with or by him or as Munsterus translateth it Eritque illud penâ—…s eâ—…m and it shal be about him or appertayning vnto him So that here appeareth plainly your skilfull fidelitie if it be not done rather of peruersitie and malice to vse your owne woordes in deniyng the Scripture to say that which in plaine woordes it saithe and in calling that an vntruth in translation which euidently is a very true translation This vntruth therefore must be cutte of from your talie and nicked vpon your score The second fault founde with the Bishop in his antecebent is an vntruth as M. Stapleton hath scored it vp in leauing out a parte of the sentence materiall Wherein he noteth the Bishop of infidelitie Your infidelitie saith he appeareth in the curtalling of your texte and leauing out the woordes that immediatly go before those that ye alleage What were these woordes that the Bishop did alleage That he haue by him the Booke of the lawe Say ye me so M. Stapleton then if the Bishop haue left out the wordes of Moses that immediatly go before those that he alleaged euen by your owne confession these wordes alleaged do come immediatly after those that ye say the Bishop left out Dâ—…ye not sée what a manifest lier your owne testimonie proueth you Within sixe lines folowing ye affirme that the text hath not these wordes and here ye say they follow immediately You are full of gathering contradictions what call ye this it followeth in the text immediatly and it is not in the text at all Where is your Logike that ye boaste of are not these contradictories so that vnlesse ye caÌ„â—…ake two contradictions true ye haue made your selfe in the one an open lier Alacke M. Stapleton where was your remembrance Mendacem memorem esse oportet a lier should haue a good memorie least he faulter Well will you say here ye tooke me tardie But how say ye to this the Bishop hath leaft out a parte of the sentence materiall he hath curtalled his â–ª text The later worde he hath bicause they make directly against him quite least out Hath he so M. St. verily that were a foule faulte and infidelitie in deede But what againe if he haue not done so if he haue left out no parte of the sentence which he cited what if those wordes which M. Stapleton would adde out of another sentence would not make any thing against the Bishop were he not then cléered of this faulte and might it not redounde to the faultfinder And by your leaue M. Stapl. though I will not herein charge ye with infidelitie vnlesse ye wist it but impute it rather to want of knowledge yet at the least it is one of your vnskilfull lies for the sentence Et habebit seâ—…um c. and he shall haue it by him and shall reade it all the daies of his life that he may learne to feare the Lorde his God and keepe his woordes and ceremonies whiche are commaunded in the Lawe is an whole and perfect sentence and as the Hebrues call it a Pasuk which if not so much as perusing the Hebrue or Chaldee text yet if meaning a truth ye would haue looked vpon the translation of Sanstes Pagninu or Munsterus ye should haue séene it to be a full period and sentence of it selfe So that the Bishop is sufficiently discharged of all vnfaithfulnesse nor hath curtalled any sentence that he alleaged nor left out any later former or middle parte materiall or not materiall thereof But now M. Stapleton looke you to it least you be founde herein a passing vnfaithfull lyer not onely on the Bishop but on the holy Scripture also Ye say he hath curtalled his text What was his text he shall haue by him the booke of the lawe What woordes follow immediatly after and he shall reade it all the dayes of his lyfe to the ende that he may learne to feare the Lorde his God and keepe all his wordes and ceremonies that are commaunded in the lawe All this the Byshop cited and expounded also hath he then curtalled his text M. Stap. that so throughly and so largely hath set out the same Tushe saye you he lefte oute the wordes that immediatly go before those that he alledged Why M. Stay. call ye that curtalling curtalling is to cut off those wordes that come behinde To cut off those wordes that immediatly go before was rather to behead his text than to curtall it And do ye not sée withall how contrarie ye speake to your selfe they be the latter wordes and they be the words that immediatly go before If they be the wordes that go before they be not the latter wordes if they be the latter they be not those that went before vnlesse they come twise bothe before and after and so the head and the tayle of the sentence is al one and the byshop cutteth off both head and tayle away according to your popishe vsage of the Scripture But then where ye say he leaueth out a material parte of the sentence ye should haue sayde he tooke away all that is materiall and not one materiall parte thereof But the byshop citeth the full sentence And those words which ye say come after and that the byshop leaueth them out bicause ye say they make directly agaynst him they come not after at all but playnly are set before And I muche maruell with what impudent face ye durst chalenge the byshop for curtalling his texte when he telleth all the wordes that followe both of the sentence he cited and of that
whiche commeth after also and yet your selfe so flatly belye the Scripture for malice to the byshop in saying suche wordes that the byshop lefte out do followe which neither followe at all and your selfe before confessed they went immediatly before Sée see howe enuie hath blinded this mans sighte Lesse maruell it is that ye sawe not the period for although those wordes whiche ye cite as lefte oute taking a copie of the Priest and the Leuiticall tribe â—…e wordes going before the bishops sentence and he shall haue by him c. yet is there a ful period betweene them which you saw not or would not sée so that those former words are no materiall part of the sentence following cited by the byshop but a material part of the senteÌ„ce going before which the byshop cited not But M. St. citeth falsly threapeth that the bishop did cite it and in citing it lefte out a materiall parte thereof charging the byshop in these wordes after suche order as your owne text appoynteth â–ª saying VVhen he is set vpon the seate of hys kingdome he shal write him out this second law in a booke taking a copie of the Priestes of the Leuiticall tribe VVhich latter wordes ye haue bicause they make directly agaynst you quite lefte out Why M. Stap. he left out bothe the latter middle first wordes and all of this sentence he mentioned it not at all ye doe but threapen kindnesse on him to fasten withall vpon him your chalenge of infidelitie Onely he alleaged the nexte sentence and that expounding it so fully that he leaueth oute neither former latter or any materiall poynte at all thereof .. And thus muche doth your selfe also witnesse agaynst your selfe saying that he lefte oâ—…t vvordes that immediatly goe before the vvordes vvhich he alleadged And what were those he shall haue by him c. This then was the texte that he alleaged by your owne confession And therfore when ye vrge him with the former texte that he alleaged not to proue infidelitie in him ye contrarie your selfe ye cleare him ye shewe your owne excéeding vnfaythfull dealing bothe to the scripture and to him also But wherefore should the Byshop haue left out as ye charge him any materiall parte of his texte bycause say you it maketh directly agaynst him In déede that were a shrewde cause and would iolily cloke M. St. infidelitie and cause men to suspect infidelitie in the bishop if he had concealed any thing in his text that directly made against him Which infidelitie who vseth and who approueth it for the poynt of a wise man to conceale that that maketh agaynst him shal after wel appeare But now although it be plainly proued that the byshop in his text left out no part therof Yet for further tryall of this also let vs take not onely the latter wordes of the next period going before which words he complayneth are lefte out but euery worde also of the same sentence concluding two or thrée periodes vnder one bicause we would haue nothing left out and ioyne them to the sentence following cited by the byshop and then behold what maner of conclusion either directly or indirectly they make agaynst him Wherin shall appeare that M. St. hath so besotted himselfe in diuinitie that he had quite forget the logike that so ofte he crakes vpon These textes are these VVhen he is set on the seate of his kingdome he shall write for him selfe out of this seconde law in a booke taking a copy of the Priests of the Leuiticall tribe And he shall haue it with him and he shall reade of it all the dayes of his life that he may learne to feare the Lorde his God and keepe all the wordes and ceremonies that are written in the lawe Upon these words M. St. frameth his argument The king shal write out this second law in a booke taking a copy of the Priestes of the Leuiticall tribe Ergo a king ought not to take vpon him suche gouernement in ecclesiasticall causes as the Quéenes maiestie doth chalenge and take vpon hir For this is the conclusion that directly maketh agaynst the bishop but as herein his logike is altogither vnskilfull so is his diuinitie yet more vnfaithfull For hauing chalenged the bishop for leauing out these words taking a copie of the priests of the Leuiticall trybe as directly against him and theÌ„ immediately foloweth sayth he how he shall busily reade the sayde booke and so foorth In which words he maketh another toto manifest lie falsifying the text yet once againe For these words Et habebit secâ—… he shal haue with him which word he leaueth quite out go betwéene therfore followe not as he sayth immediatly But sée héere whether it be of malice to the byshop or to the Scripture that all this while in quarelling with this little poore text habebit secum he shall haue with him he findeth fault with translating he accuseth the byshop of infidelitie and vnskilfulnesse he complaineth of leauing out wordes going immediatly before of curtalling the texte and leauing out latter wordes of leauing out a material part of words following immediatly he citeth and reciteth these and those wordes in Latin and Englishe he scanneth and descanteth on translations and all this while those onely three wordes habebit secum which the byshop alleaged wrinching and wresting he euer glaunceth by them he will not once name them but leaueth them quite out which was the materiall thing that the byshop alleaged And yet all the while he whineth of leauing oute and leaueth oute him selfe that he should chiefly answere What shall we thinke is the cause that he dothe thus surely there is some force in those wordes that he sawe were more directly against him or else he would neuer do so for very shame But I remember a tale that he hath patched vp into his counterblast of the Simoniacall Priest that béeing commaunded to say In nomine patris filij spiritus sanctâ—… could rehearse all well inough till he came to spiritus sancti as for that he could not pronounce it in any maner of wise But sée your chance M. Stap. that ye there fabled howe here your selfe haue playde the like part The byshop vrgeth you with thrée wordes habebit secum â–ª ye will not onely answere nothing thereto but ye will not in any wise whyle ye repeate the sentences so muche as name those wordes and yet ye goe rounde about them On the other side those wordes that the bishop cited not as no parte of his sentence alleaged Lorde what a doe ye make of curtalling of leauing out of infidelitie vnskilfulnesse peruersitie malice and I can not tell what Onely bicause ye thinke those wordes séeme to make for your massing Priests authoritie bicause they name Priests and yet God wot they make nothing for you nor agaynst the byshop directly or indirectly But you thinke this sentence maketh thus much for your priestes that if the
Prince hereon will clayme by the one sentence to haue the knowledge of the lawe and worde of God ye wil enforce of the other that he shall haue no more therof nor no otherwise than it pleaseth you to licence him And so farre ye dare aduenture to say VVell let the king reade in Gods name not only that booke but all the whole Byble beside it is a worthy and coÌ„mendable studie for him But let him beware that this sweete honie be not turned into poyson to him and least vnder this pleasant bayte of Gods worde he be sodenly choked with the topicall and pestiferous translation wherewith ye haue rather peruerted than translated the Byble printed at Geneua and in many other places with your false dangerous damnable gloses wherwith you haue corrupted and watred the same and made it as it were of pleasaunt wine moste sowre vineger The onely remedie and helpe to eschue and auoyde this daunger is to take this booke and other holy writings faythfully translated at the Priestes handes as they from tyme to tyme haue receyued them Howe fitly ye apply your metaphors in making one thing in the same respect to be sweete hony yet sowre vinegar let others descaÌ„t How properly ye rap your friers monks on the balde in vpbrayding gloses wherwith the worde of God hath bene watered and corrupted let euen the Papistes be iudge them selues whether it toucheth you or vs more néere How notably ye haue confuted the translation of the Geneua Byble shall be declared when ye shall set downe some one or other false worde or sentence translated in it Howe well you like that kinges should read the Byble as a worthy and commendable studie for them appeaâ—…h in that ye can away with no translation nor yet your â—…e wyll set out any for them But howe well soeuer you like it or at least dissemble for to lyke it the moste of your complyces lyke it neuer a deale Full sore agaynst whose willes it was translated in the mother tong of any prince or people But if it were so worthy and commendable a studie for Princes why were not Christian Princes permitted to studie in it why kepte ye them in ignoraunce why limit ye them within the studie of â—…ill affayres of martiall policies of hunting and hauking pastimes But as for the worde of God not one word no not to moue any talke thereof sayth Cardinall Hosius And thinke ye they might then make the same their studie but how soeuer ye ordered Princes as other people then now that ye sée there is no remedie Princes will be no longer deluded but make it their studie in déede with a false heart God knoweth ye say well let the king reade in Gods name not onely that booke but all the whole Byble beside It is a worthy and commendable studie for him If ye be thus liberall master Stapl. to Princes from your heart nowe why did ye quarell with the byshop so muche before for saying he should haue by him the booke of the lawe should he reade and studie the same and yet not haue it by him But I perceiue ye are halfe wéerie of your owne wrangling and therfore in the end ye not onely graunt that he shall haue it by him but also shall make the same his studie Now here if your fellowes aske ye what ye meane to be thus liberall to princes in permitting them to studie in the worde of God in suche tonges as they vnderstand which thing many of your felowes would stifly gaynsay be content my masters may you say it is not now time to striue to muche with princes since they will néedes haue thus muche let them haue it a Gods name yea let vs séeme to giue it them franke and frée but euer presupposed they muste haue it of our giuing and then goâ—…d inough they were as good and perchaunce better without it â–ª For here after ye haue seriously warned princes to beware of our false gloses and translations The onely remedie and helpe say you to eschue and auoyde this danger is to take this booke and other holy writings faythfully translated at the Priests hands as they froÌ„ time to time haue receiued theÌ„ Some simple man that heard ye M. Stapleton thus demurely preache of translations and glosinges woulde perhappes thinke ye coulde not glose and translate so falsely so impudently as ye do euen here where ye reprehende the same in others Dothe your texte that ye beate so much vpon mention these words receiuing of it translated at the Priests hands as they from time to time haue receiued it or is there any suche meaning First there is no mention of any translating at all but the text sayth accipiens exemplar à sacerdotibus Leuiticâ—… tribus taking a copie of the priestes of the Leuiticall tribe Or as other haue it describet sibi exemplar huius legis in librocoram sacerdotibus Lenitici generis He shall write out for him selfe a copie of this law in a booke before the Priestes of the Leuiticall tribe He speaketh not héere of any translation for why the lawe was wrytten in their owne mother tongue Nowe bicause to other Princes it is giuen translated can ye inferre hereon the Priests onely should haue the translating of it or béeing translated it should be receiued onely at the Priests handes as they from time to time haue receiued it wherby it should follow that had the translation passed any continuaÌ„ce from time to time it should be forced on vs for a faythful translatioÌ„ were it neuer so false which is apparaÌ„t in the old translation that hath long time froÌ„ time to time continued falsly vnder S. Hieroms name as both appeareth by S. Hieroms works also S. Hierom coÌ„futeth this fond reason Neither was he moued with the outcries of those in his time yea euen of S. Austine that cried on him as you do now on the learned traÌ„slators in our time Neither might the word of god hereby be traÌ„slated into any other toÌ„g thaÌ„ it hath ben traÌ„slated into of long coÌ„tinuance froÌ„ time to time thus should princes be debarred of the word of God in which ye would haue them studie except you popish priests would translate it per aduenture to kéepe them from it ye would say you should not deliuer any other translation than hath bene vsed from time to time And yet to what prescription of time ye wold driue vs off it is vncerteyne This is false therfore and ful of absurdities that ye prattle of receyuing it translated at the Priestes handes as they from time to time haue receiued it No M. St. to borrowe your own termes your text sayth not so sir nor meaneth so But only that the prince should receiue it of the Leuiticall priests as they had faythfully kept the word of God from the first original setting out therof So noteth Uatablus the great learned Hebritian Curabit sibi describâ—… exemplar legis
novv But then is it most euident that the Popishe Churche is not the true Churche nor was figured hereby at all For first the popishe Prestes deliuered not a coppie of the lawe of God to wete of the Old and New testament vp into their Kings Queenes and Princes handes to write it out and haue it alwaies by them to studie vppon but rather do the contrary as did the Pharisies keping the key of knowledge away from them of purpose telling them it appertaineth not to their estates but that they may go play them or employ them selues in other foreigne matters onely the worde of God they must in no case meddle withall which belongeth alonely to the Priests Nor they will be bounde to deliuer vp to their Princes any coppie thereof at all But thus much yet they will do for their Princes to giue them a péece here and there and that either must be the bare letter as M. Stapleton calleth it or els such expositions as it shall please them to leauen the dough withall And is this now the perfect bodie of that shadow the veritie of that figure set forth in Moses order or not rather the full accomplishing of the Scribes and Pharisies doings whom they haue so followed in not giuing vp a coppie to their Princes in wresting defacing and taking away Gods worde that theirs may better be said to be a very shadow and figure of the Popish priests dealings herein And that we rather expresse the veritie of that figure and shadow of Moses order rendring vp to our Princes a full perfect and sincere coppie of Gods lawe that they may write it out set it forth haue it by them and meditate therein day and night as King Dauid counsayleth to learne thereby to be wise and feare the Lord their God and by them all their subiects And thus his importune vrging of this place hath so properly helpt his matter forwarde that where he saith the Bishop left it quite out as making directry against him what soeuer the Bishop did it had bene better for M. Stapl. to haue left it quite out also or not to haue triumphed so much on that which at the better view thereof so directly maketh against all his popishe Priestes But for all this M. Stapleton will proue that the popish priestes must not onely haue the handling of Gods worde but also that they can not be deceyued nor erre in the sense thereof And this will he proue euen by the Protestants them selues For sayth he as the Protestants them selues are forced by plaine wordes to confesse that they knowe not the true worde or booke of God but by the Churche whiche from time to time deliuered these bookes euen so by all reason and learning they shoulde also confesse that the Churche can no more be deceyued in deliuering the sense of the sayde worde than in deliuering the worde it selfe VVhich seeing they will not confesse for then we were forthwith at a point and ende with all their errours and heresies they must nedes continue in the same The argument is this The Protestants confesse that they know not the worde of God but by the Churche of Christ that kéepeth witnesseth and agnizeth the same from time to time Ergo the Protestants must néedes confesse that the Church he meaneth the Popishe priestes in deliuering of the worde can not be deceyued in the sense thereof In stéede of aunswere hereto master Stapleton him selfe maketh a preoccupation for perceyuing the falsenesse and follie thereof woulde soone be reiected VVhich seeing sayth he they will not confesse for then we were at a point with all their errours and heresies they must needes continue in the same Do we not confesse master Stapleton that ye woulde haue vs confesse why then haue ye reasoned all this while thus fondly taking that for confessed which your selfe now are forced by plain wordes to confesse that we confesse not but vtterly denie that you be the Catholike Church that you haue deliuered these bookes from time to time which you haue rather hid away that you can not erre in the sense â—…f the scripture and such like wrong principles Which in déede if we shoulde falsely confesse with you then all the matter were at a poynt and ende as ye saye But since we denie it and reiect your fonde reasoning à petitione principij it is tyme that ye séeke out other arguments more substantiall or else as your cause is at a poynte or not worth a poynt so in conclusion ye stande on this poynt to slaunder vs as following euery man his owne heade and that we shal neuer haue done and errours will neuer cease more and more to encrease and multiplie vnlesse we take forth say you the lesson I haue shewed you And what lesson is that Forsooth that we must graunt and confesse to be most true all these your false principles And then we shall be your white sonnes and good scholers I dare say if once we would conne that lesson Ye would giue vs a fat remedie and leaue to play the fooles truands all day long if we would learne that lesson of yours But such scholemasters as yâ—… are such schollers ye desire to haue and suche lessons ye take them forth Caecus autem si caeco ducatum prestet ambo in foueam cadunt If the blinde leade the blinde both of them fall into the ditch Thus ye deceyued the princes and people in tymes past But God be praysed both Princes and people haue now taken forth that lesson out of Gods holy word that ye could not or neuer would teach read or expound vnto them Nowe when ye haue redde this lesson vnto vs with so false a glosse and commentarie vpon the text as ye complaine left out ye determine that the best remedie were the exact obseruation of this place that ye haue say you so wilyly and sleightly slipt ouer This is but a poynt of your apparant impudencie master Stapleton to set a beâ—…de face on the matter for God knoweth ye would nothing lesse than that the diligent reader shoulde exactly obserue this place Whiche if he did this place alone were there no more woulde sufficiently shewe howe ye haue haled and racked it and all the lawe of God besides That this place therefore if the exact obseruation thereof be the best remedie to your cause as ye say might remedie your cause the better I haue somewhat the more exactly obserued it and if your cause haue founde any remedie thereby muche good doe it you ye shall haue more of it So that I trust yée shall not néede to complaine of ouerslipping any thing materiall Which least ye should doe the Chapter shall be yet more exactly obserued than perchaunce ye would haue it to be And to begin with that ye quarrell at next as wilily and sleightly slipt ouer But most of all say you another sentence in the verie said Chapter And euen the next to this
ye alleage that the king as soone as he is chosen shall bestowe his studie vppon the reading of the Deuteronomie VVhere Moses sayth that in doubtfull causes the people shoulde haue their recourse to the sayde Priestes and to the iudge for the time being meaning the highe Priest of whome they shoulde learne the truth and are commaunded to doe accordingly euen vnder paine of death All this ye say the Bishop wilily and sleightly slipt ouer and yet in the verie sayde Chapter it was euen the next to that he alleaged Alacke master Stapleton that euer yée should for shame haue thus ouerslipt your selfe Were ye not halfe a sléepe when ye made this slippe For I will not recharge you so harde wyth wylinesse and sleight but with palpable grosnesse and marueylous negligent ignoraunce in a student of diuinitie to beate so much vppon a text as you doe here charging your aduersarie wyth wylinesse sleight vnfaythfulnesse vnskilfulnesse leauing out curtalling and ouerslipping and your selfe shewe so little skil or regarde in citing your text that eyther ye know not or ye care not what commeth before what commeth after what commeth next what commeth not next nor nere it Ye saye that the sentence of the Priestes and the Iudges iudgements on doubtfull cases commeth euen the next to that the Bishop alleaged in the verie sayde Chapter Turne your booke to the Chapter once againe M. Stap. reade the wordes that come next yea all the wordes that follow in that Chapter Nor his heart shall be lifted vp in pride aboue his brethren neyther shall he turne to the right hande or to the left that both he and his childe may raigne long time ouer Israell Doth not this follow next and is not this the last sentence of the sayde Chapter Then if it be in that verie Chapter it commeth not as you say next vnto it but must néedes go before and so doth it Neyther yet the next before for there commeth betwene them fiue or six periods at the least And as they are two diuerse places so are they two sundrie matters Ye charge therefore the Bishop amisse with wilie and sleight ouerslipping where nothing is ouerslipped though the former sentence be not alleaged And ye falsely ioyne them togither saying The King shall bestow his studie vpon the reading of the Deuteronomie where Moyses sayth that in doubtfull causes c. When as Moses there sayth not so Ye falsely say it commeth next to it which it doth not but goeth before in another matter and diuerse sentences betwene What a foule ouerslippe was this of you that could prie so narrowly to séeke a slippe ouer a slipper in anothers footing where was not so muche as any tripping awrie and your selfe vnawares haue slipt into a foule lie ouer the sloppes and all But if we let slippe this as but a grosse ouerslippe yet maye we not so let slip M. Stapletons slipperie and false exposition for all he sayeth that their priestes can not expounde the scripture amisse For where the text sayth the people sholde haue their recourse to the priestes and to the iudge for the time beeing meaning sayth M. Stapleton the high priest In déede so doth his popishe glosse interline it and yet euen Lyra that woulde shift of the matter as much as he might for his Pope with his morall or rather marre all gloses hereon both noteth in his margin that these be twaine summâ—… sacerdos iudex the high Priest and the Iudge And sayth in his casibus c. In these and the like cases they must runne vnto the higher Iudges that is to say â–ª to the high Priest and to the chiefe Iudge of Israell And althoughe sometime it chaunced that one person had both these offices as appeareth by Hely who was both chiefe Iudge and chiefe Priest yet for the most part as they are distinct offices so were they commonly in distinct and seuerall persons And to proue this further by the penaltie which as you say was vnder the paine of death the which iudgement apperteyned to the Iudge but ordinarily it was not lawfull for the high priestes to iudge any man to death as euen the wicked priestes to cloke their murther when Pilate sayde vnto them Accipite eum vos c. Take you him and iudge him according to your law coulde replie like to the papisticall Priestes that post of the bodyes death to the temporall power Nobis non licet quemque interficere It is not lawfull for vs to kill any man but the Iudge that this place speaketh of should ordinarily condemne to death the refuser Ex indicis decreto moriatur homo ille Let that man die by the iudges decree Ergo he meaneth not that this ordinarie Iudge shoulde be the high priest Besides this the very text is plaine in making this distinction to the Priestes and to the Iudge not to the Iudge meaning the priest Againe The commandement of the high Priest and the decree of the Iudge Which fully importeth that he meaneth not the one by the other but expresseth two diuerse persons and two seuerall offices distinctly Wherfore master Stapleton apparantly wresteth the text thus flatly to say that he meaneth the high Priest by the name of Iudge to proue that his Pope hath no péere but all iudgement remayneth in him alone in euery difficult matter of religion And here againe appeareth another of his false and purposed ouerslippes Moses sayth he doth say that in doubtfull causes the people should haue their recourse to the priests Whie doe ye here master Stapleton forget your former marginall censure of leauing out anie materiall partes of the sentence telling vs of doubtful causes but not telling vs what those doubtfull causes were and speake as doubtfully as though they were matters of doctrine religion and ecclesiasticall ordinaunces which are the matters in question betwéene the partyes when this place speaketh onely of decyding a difficult or doubtfull matter betweene bloud and bloud plea and plea plague and plague in matters of stryfe But none of these specifications what maner of doutfull causes hée ment woulde you expresse for feare it woulde then bée to soone espyed that this sentence made nothing at all for the supreme iudgement of your Pope And yet after these two sleightes the one of remoouing the ciuill Prince or iudge from this iudgement with the Priestes and ascribing all to the Priestes alone to make it serue your purpose the better The other by slipping ouer all these doubtfull causes in the sentence expressed as thoughe it were simplie spoken wythout anye specification to make it serue for the Priestes absolute iudgemente in all ecclesiasticall ordinaunces When ye haue wyth thys dubble sleyght and wylinesse thus wrested the Text then come yée in ruffling lyke a lustye Rutterkin and swappe mée downe hereon this iolie marginall note An other sentence in the sayde Chapter by master Horne alleaged that ouerthroweth all his boast God saue al
Where this place ioyneth togither as colleages the prince with the priest or rather ascribeth the skil in suche doubtes to be defined by the learned and faythfull priest and the full authoritie to giue iudgement and to ratifie the Priestes sentence in condemning the refusers to death and in approuing the receyuers to consist not in the high Priest but in the Iudge or Prince And thus this place that he would so fayne wrest euery way agaynst Christian Princes and for his Pope and popelings béeing well wayed and considered according to his owne request maketh nothing for his matter nor for his shauelings but cleane agaynst them And béeing better wayed and considered maketh nothing against the Bishops cause nor against christian Princes supreme gouernment in ouerséeing correcting such false priests but very muche for their duetie and chiefe authoritie therin M. St. hauing thus shamefully counterblasted the Byshops allegatioÌ„ to set a good face on an euilfauorde matter biddes the byshop go on and crieth out that he hath goâ—…ten the victorie that the bishop is at his first encouÌ„tring ouerblowne and discomfited euen with his owne blast And that it is not likely hereafter that he shall bring any thing to resolue his aduersarie But as God would haue it all these wordes are no blowes nor arguments but vayne triuÌ„phes before he haue gotten the victorie of the which he reckoneth him selfe so sure that he graunteth the Byshops other allegation Deut. 13. For as for the next place sayth he it enforceth no supremacie we freely graunt you that princes may sharply punish teachers of false and superstitious religion and Idolatrie beeing therof by the Priests instructed whiche is the matter of your texte This parenthesis M. St. beeing therof by the priests instructed is the levvde lying glose of your owne forge The text hath no such matter of the priests instruction but what thinke you doth enstruction more enforce an authoritie in the priest than powre to punish correct doth enforce an authoritie in the prince or doth this follow that bicause the prince by the priests enstruction doth punish false teachers Ergo he punisheth theÌ„ by the priests authoritie but as you fréely graunt that the prince may punish noughtie false and idolatrous priests so that the priests instructioÌ„ is any matter of the byshops text or that his instruction should more enforce authoritie ouer the prince than the princes punishment doth ouer false teachers is both euident false this we as flatly deny as you do fréely graunt the other Howbeit presupposing that we would also grauÌ„t him this that all things must still be done by the priests instruction But then sayth master Stap. take heede to your selfe master Horne and as though he him selfe were this instructour for I say to you sayth he that ye and your fellowes teache false and superstitious religion many and detestable heresies and so withall playne idolatrie In déede sir so ye say that full stoutly braying out with I say to you but thanks be to God ye do but say it to vs ye do not proue it to vs but and it were put to a double post might it not proue a worde of course and then take heede to your selfe master Stapl. for we not onely say to you but by the worde of God proue it to you that you and your felowes teach false and superstitious religion many and detestable heresies so withal plaine idolatrie c. and so haue ye giuen sentence agaynst your selfe haue told the magistrate his office to punishe you as false teachers that care not how ye falsifie wrest the scriptures to deface your aduersarie the vnskilfulnesse and vnfaythfulnesse wherwith ye falsly charge him euer double or treble redounding vppon your selfe The residue of your proces on these two chalenges of vnskilfulnesse vnfaythfulnesse I referre to your common places of rayling scoffes and slaunders and will answere to the thirde great faulte that ye finde in this diuision Nowe that ye bring out of Glossa ordinaria say you that the Prince is commanded by his princely authoritie to cause his subiectes to become Israelites it may perhaps be in some ordinarie glose of Geneua his notes Bales or some such like but as for the olde ordinary Latin glose I am right sure M. Horne it hath no suche thing Are ye right sure therof M. Stap and hath it no suche thing in déede will ye venter your poore honestie thereon I dare say ye would haue vs thinke that ye haue looked on the ordinarie glose whether any suche thing were there or no else would ye neuer for shame so boldly affirme it But what speake I of shame in so shamelesse a face that boldly dare auouche he is right sure there is no suche thing when if he had looked in the ordinary glose except he would of purpose looke from it he could scantly misse it euen at the first viewe The wordes of the glose vpon super Israel are these Benedictio est regnare super Israel 1. regnando facere Israel s. deum videntes It is a blessing to raigne ouer Israell that is to saye by raigning which the Byshop Englished by his Princely authoritie to make or cause to become Israelites that is to wete folkes seeing God. The Bishop Englished the sentence playnly by his Princely authoritie to cause his subiectes to become Israelites And what is here that is not onely in summe of sentence but in the very emphasis or force of the bare wordes all one with the glose and yet this moste impudent what should I call him vnskilfull or vnfaythfull lyer or both chalengeth the Bishop of vntruth and sayth he is right sure there is no such thing In what thing wil this man stick to outface the simple vnlearned that dare thus deale with such a lerned father and coÌ„mit it to print to be examined of any lerned reader and crake of such assurance as though he had poared ouer al the booke for it euen at the first chop he is found an open lyer But I doubt whether euer he looked on the booke at all but trusted some retchelesse superuisor For if he had looked but ouer the head of the verie texte Ut longo tempore regnet That he might long time reigne hée shoulde haue founde noted on this worde Regnet corporaliter spiritualiter That hee shoulde reigne or exercise his Princely authoritie a long tyme Bodily and spiritually not onely to haue a regiment in lay temporall and ciuile matters as M. St. affirmeth but euen in spirituall matters also And had he but looked a little higher on these wordes Legetque illud omnibus diebus vitae suâ—… He should read it all the days of his life He should haue found Vsus reddit magistrum the vse of reading the worde of God makes the king a maister in Gods worde that is to say a setter forth or teacher thereof as it were Upon whiche the
haue for warrant the expresse commaundement of God. So that by your wicked principle no good nor godly princes ought to be drawne into example for any other Princes to follow but naughtie and wicked Princes such as had so little any part or sparke of Moses glorie that they had not the spirit of God in them or at the least it is vncertaine whose spirite they had such as the people were not commaunded to heare them suche as had not Gods expresse commaundement for their doinges these are fitte examples with you for Princes to followe Thus do ye shew how ye haue heretofore yet still would abuse Princes making them so drunken with that cuppe of abhominations of the whore of Babilon that they might take ensample of no good nor godly Prince But let vs sée howe substantially ye proue your maior You reason by admitting the contrary thereto ab absurdo from a foule inconuenience that we should fall into by taking such Princes for example or else fall into a â—…oule contradiction agaynst our selues Else if ye will haue your examples say you to proue and confirme then as Iosue circumcided so let the Prince baptise and as Iosue sacrificed vpon an altare so let the Prince in Cope Surplesse celebrate your holy coÌ„munion But these two things as peculier offices of Bishops and Priests M Nowell excludeth flatly all Princes from yea and sayth they ought to be vntouched of Prince or other person Ergo thus agayne either ye iumble and iarre one from another or else your argument to bring Iosue for example to proue and confirme falleth downe righte choose whiche of bothe ye will. Héere is as M. Stap. thinketh a marueilous Dilemma and yet the absurditie therof moste easily anoyded and the contradiction as playnly turned vpon him selfe To the maior I answere that as the one did these things so dothe the other and therfore the one is a fit example of the other As Iosue then did circumcise so the Prince nowe baptiseth As Iosue did then sacrifice on an altare so the Prince doth now celebrate not ours as he scornefully termes it but the Lordes holy communion Neither of them by executing them selues the fact but by commaunding appoynting and ouerséeing the facte to be rightly executed by the ministers to whom the doing apperteineth And that this was Iosue his doing and not otherwise Lyra vpon these wordes Et primum quidem benedixit populo doth witnesse And first of all he blessed the people c. Non est intelligenduÌ„ quòd Iosue proprie loquendo benedixit populum quòd hoc pertinet ad sacerdotum officium sed imprecatus est bona populo tanquà m princeps populi post immolationeÌ„ praedictaÌ„ quam similiter fecit non per se sed per sacerdotes VVee must not vnderstand these words he blessed the people that Iosue in speaking him selfe did blesse them for this apperteyned to the Priestes office But Iosue as the Prince of the people wished well vnto them after the offring afore sayde whiche likewyse he did not by himselfe but by the Priestes And againe Posthac legit omnia verba c. Then afterwarde he reade all the wordes of the lawe the blessinges and cursings according to all that is written in the booke of the law there was not a worde that Moses had commaunded whiche Iosue read not before all the congregation of Israell as well before the women and the children as the straunger c. Non per se sed per sacerdotes vt praedictum est coram omni multitudinem Israel c. Not by him selfe but by the priestes as is before sayde afore all the multitude of Israell And euen as he thus read and blessed by his commaundement and their ministerie so saith Lyra fecit immolationem similiter he did offer sacrifice in like sort not by him selfe but by commaunding the minister to do it And do ye thinke that he circumcised all the whole people of Israell with his owne handes because the wordes are circuncidit filios Israel Do ye thinke bicause the bare wordes are Igitur Iosue de nocte consurgens mouit castra that he remooued all their tents with his owne handes and of the stones in Iordan alios quoque duodcim lapides posuit in medio Iordanis alueo that he set them in the riuer with his owne fingers Do ye thinke of the Citie and the King of Hai succendit vrbem fecit eam tumulum sempiternum regem quoque eius suspendit in patibulo he burnt the Citie and hee made it an heape for euer and the King thereof he hanged on a gallowes and of the other Kinges Iosue smote them and slewe them and hanged them on fiue trees all these thinges and a number of such other as well seruile as other deedes as well temporall as ecclesiasticall thinke you bycause still all runneth vnder his name and his doing that he did them hym selfe Or rather gather thereon that syth he did not these things himselfe and yet so well in ecclesiasticall as other matters all beareth the name alone of him it importeth his supreme gouerment and direction of them So little is there any absurditie in the comparison of these doings but your owne absurde mistaking and reasoning so absurdly on them not distinguishing betwene the doing of these things and the maner of doing them To the minor likewise I answere there is no contradiction iumbling or iarring betwene the Bishop and master Nowell therein For of the same minde that the one is is the other also as the Bishop hath declared many times in his answere euer obseruing this destinction betwéene the doing of the fact and the ouersight in appoynting the fact to be done But this of a peuish selfe will ye will not vnderstande And so here bicause the wordes are simplie spoken that Iosue did such things ye vnderstande it that personally he executed the doing of them But what now if you doe contrarie your owne selfe and talking after of this same partie confesse that the doing of these and such like things â–ª must be vnderstoode by this sayde maner of anothers ministerie May ye not then most worthely here your owne wordes returned on your selfe that your argument falleth downe right if euer it stoode vpright your selfe in playne spéeche hurling it downe and that eyther here or there yée speake agaynst your owne conscience your owne sayings iumbling and iarring one from another and so ye encurre eyther the absurditie or the contradiction choose which of both you will. The. 13. Diuision The next ensample of the Byshop is of Dauid how God appoynted him king not onely for the people to liue in ciulâ—… peace and honesâ—…ie but chiefly that by Dauids gouernment care and zeale therein they mighte be fosâ—… red vp in Gods true religion decayed among them by the negligent reigne of king Saule This the Eyshop proued by king Dauids Actes in ordering disposing reforming the
ye bryng hym foorthe to better purpose or else whyle yee thynke by clawyng hym thus to wynne hys good fauour yee gette hys heauy displeasure and that he answere ye flatly non hercule veniam tertio he will not come at your cal Howbeit ye will once agayne in hope of better lucke bring him foorth and alleage his authoritie better than ye haue done hitherto Besides that say you it is to be considered as M. D. Harding toucheth that he passed other Princes herein bicause he had the gifte of prophecie So that neither those thinges that the Apologie sheweth of Dauid or those that ye and master Nowell adde therevnto for the fortification of the sayde superioritie can by any meanes induce it This friuolous argument he was a Prophet also aswell as a Prince Ergo his superioritie in that he was a Prince can not be alleaged for other Princes to followe ye vsed before as your owne freshe stuffe to shifte off Moses ensample but as it nothing helped your cause then no more dothe it nowe Onely it detecteth héere your vayne crake there of vnspent stuffe where in déede it was olde rotten stuffe spent before by D. Harding on king Dauid as héere your selfe coÌ„fesse yet there ye brought it as a notable fresh surplusage beyonde all that had bene sayde But as you thus of D. Hardings olde scroppes héere would haue made vs there newe fresh stuffe of your owne wherby the alleaging of him agayne this third time openeth your shame so yet once agayne ye make your M. D. Harding and your selfe for companie confounde your owne tales and speake contrarie to your selues Right now ye sayde and alleaged your masters authoritie for it that king Dauids doings were no more than Queene Maries doings to employ a supremacie Nowe ye say agayne and like wise alleage your master for it that king Dauid passed other princes heerein bicause he had the gifte of prophecie If he passed other princes héerein then he passed Quéene Mary whome many other Princes haue also héerein passed and so his doings were more than were Quéene Maries doings héerein For who knowe not that she was no Prophete and thus the oftner ye alleage your master ye take your master tardie in one lie or another and make him still contrarie both himselfe and his cause also Againe it King Dauid were a Prophete as I graunt he was a Prophete ye wote might and did determine doctrine but your selfe sayde before Dauid in all his doings determined no doctrine and thus ye lie on your owne head and make your master witnesse thereto Well leaue at the length to cite your masters authorities for shame master Stapleton since ye can bring them out no handsomer or howe well so euer ye haue brought them out to your aduantage since they be no better proues than that He affirmeth he noteth he toucheth as though all were gospell that master Doctor Harding affirmeth noteth or toucheth Are ye so fond to thinke any man would yéelde so soone vnto them vnlesse he were as wise as your selfe But since none of all these reasons will serue we shall now haue other stuffe of your owne though not very fresh but such stale refuse as your masters haue refused but to you all is fishe that commes to nette ye do wisely to let go nothing that maye any waye be wrested to helpe so yll a cause And first ye reason from the authoritie of the scripture In déede this is a better way than to reason from D. Hardings authoritie The Scripture say you in the sayde place by you and master Nowell alleaged sayth that Dauid did worke iuxta omnia quae scripta sunt in lege dominâ—… according to all things written in the lawe of God. What conclusion can ye inferre hereon agaynst the Bishops allegation of Dauid Ergo he had not an especiall care and regard in ordring and setting forth Gods true religion if ye make the quite contrarie conclusion He did worke according to all things written in the lawe of God Ergo as the B. sayth he had an especiall care and regard in ordring directing Gods true religion then should ye make a most true conclusion where otherwise rightly applied it can no ways serue your turn Thus bring ye out that which once again ouerturnes your cause and proues K. Dauids supreme gouernmeÌ„t And euen so the Q. Maiestie by this ensample of K. Dauid is taught to do the like as praysed be to god for hir therfore she foloweth wel herein the steps of K. Dauid doing iuxta omnia quae scripta suÌ„t in lege domini according to all things written in gods law And where the papists in al their errors this amoÌ„g other of the supremacie do praeter coÌ„tra omnia quae scripta sunt in lege domini besides against all things writteÌ„ in gods law As Dauid redressed eccl. disorders crept in before his time so the Q. highnes now hath redressed such disorders as she fouÌ„d before hir time crept in Thus the more ye reason the more stil ye make against your selfe Ye had néed adde some better stuffe thaÌ„ this or els if ye thus hold on your friends wold wish M. Fec had hired ye to hold your peace when he first moued you to plead for him Master Stap. séeing it now more than high time to adde some notable thing to better his cause VVherevnto I adde sayth he a notable saying of the scripture in the sayd booke by you alleaged concerning Dauids doings by you brought foorth touching the Priestes and Leuits Vt ingrediantur domum dei iuxta ritum suum sub manu Aaron patris corum sicut prâ—…ceperat dominus deus Israel King Dauids appoyntment was that the Leuits and Priestes should enter into the house of God there to serue vnder the gouernment of whome I pray you not of King Dauid but vnder the spirituall gouernment of their spirituall father Aaron and his successours The gouernour of them was Eleazarus Upon this notable sentence for your purpose as ye thinke you gather thrée notes And bicause ye would go orderly ye begin first with the last note VVhere we haue to note first say you that Dauid appoynted hereto the Leuits nothing of himself But sicut praeceperat dominus deus Israel as the Lorde God of Israel had before appoynted VVe haue here againe to note first in you M. Stap. no plaine dealing that begin with the last part of the sentence first And wherefore I pray you but that that which is spoken here of this matter in especiall ye woulde make it séeme to serue for all Dauids doings in generall VVe haue to note againe your hacking and wresting of this sentence which sheweth a playne destination betweene theyr turnes of comming in and their ordinarie ministerie in theyr turnes in attending on the highe priest The text is thus â—…ae vices eorum secundum ministeria sua vt ingrediantur domum domini iuxta ritum
contrarie Thus saith the king the priest and the Bishop shal haue the gouernment of such things as appertaine to God. Ergo the Prince that thus appointeth him thereto hath an other supreme gouernment of appointing and ouerseing euen the priests gouernment Doth not the King appoint the one to his office so well as he appointed the other are not both gouerned in their offices vnder him Yet say you ouer gods matters is the priest not as the kings commissioner but as the priests were after the example of Moses The Bishop refuseth not the example of Moses but alleaged euen the same and your selfe then refused that example saying he had such prerogatiues that he of all other could not be alleaged for exaÌ„ple bicause of his especial priuilege And now contrary to your former sayings you say the priests were not as the Kings coÌ„missioners but were alwaies after the example of Moses But go to be it so how doth this helpe your matter or not rather quite confute it In Moses time Aaron and after him Eleazar were the chiefe priestes ouer gods matters vnder whome were the other Priestes and Leuites But all of them yea Aaron and Eleazar so wel as the rest were vnder the supreme gouernement in ecclesiasticall causes so well as temporall of their Prince and ruler Moses Ergo If Moses be an example how the priestes should alwayes gouerne vnder Gods matters then muste their gouernment be alwayes vnder the princes supreme gouernment to ouersée order and direct them as Moses did And where ye say the Priest here was not the Princes commissioner in these matters the very text is most playn to the contrarie I stande not on the worde least I should minister to you occasion of wrangling with me as ye do with the byshop but goe to the matter What call ye him that the Prince sendeth foorth in a commission committing a charge vnto him call ye him not a commissioner and his commissioner that so sendeth him in commission did not Iosaphat so sende about his priestes and Leuites on this commission that they shoulde teache and set foorth euery where the worde of God Tertio annâ—… regni sui misit c. in the thirde yere of his raigne he sent out certayne of hys princes Benail and Obdias and Zacharias and Nathaniel and Micheas that they should teache in the cities of Iuda and with them the Leuites Semeiah Nethamah Zebediah and Asahel and Semiramoth and Ionathas and Adonias and Thobias and Tob Adoniah Leuites and with them Elizama and Ioram Priests And they taught the people in Iuda hauing with them the booke of the lawe of the Lord and they went about throughout all the cities of Iuda and taught the people Were they not héere sent in this commission thus to do froÌ„ the king Their doctrine was not the kings but Gods commission the Lords booke but this their maner of traueling in setting it foorth was the kings commission And they so wel the Priests and Leuites as the Princes were bothe of them the kings commissioners In lyke case the Quéenes maiesty sendeth out hir godly learned commissioners sendeth by them the worde of God Gods booke and truthe to be set foorth The truth thus set foorth hath not his authoritie from hir coÌ„mission nor the preachers to preach only by hir outward commission but they haue another inward coÌ„mission from God and are Gods commissioners by the calling ministerie of their office Howbeit in this outward maner of visitation setting it foorth in this sorte of traueling about hir highnesse townes and cities reforming abuses directing all eccl. causes they are therin euen aswell the Quéenes coÌ„missioners as those priests Leuites in al their reformatioÌ„ of religion were coÌ„missioners from king Iosaphat And thus euery thing in the ende is moste euident agaynst you But yet ye blunder still on in your owne conceite and thinke ye haue héere gotten a wonderfull strong argument And marke well M. Horne this poynt say you Zabadias is set ouer suche workes as belong to the kinges office But suche workes are no maner thing perteyning to the seruice of God for ouer them Amarias the Priest is President Ergo the kinges office consisteth not about thinges perteyning to God but is a distinct function concerning the common weale Ergo if the king intermeddle in Gods matters especially if he take vpon him the supreme gouernement thereof euen ouer the priests theÌ„ selues to whom the charge is committed he passeth the bouÌ„des of his office he breaketh the order appoynted by God and is become an open enemie to Gods holy ordinance Your crakes and reuilings that ye powder your argument with I remitte to their proper common places to the argument I aunswere If it be marked well as ye would haue it saying Marke well this poynte M. Horne First the marker shall finde it neither in any moode nor figure Secondly the marker shall finde an Equiuocation in these words workes kinges office pertayning to Gods seruice Which words béeing diuerfly vnderstoode in either proposition Thirdly make a paralogisme of foure termes Fourthly in these words ye make a Fallation a secundum quid ad simpliciter Lyra liuiteth theâ—…e words super ea operaerit quae ad regis officium pertinent He shall be ouer those workes that perteyne to the kings office onely to the ayding and strengthening the Priests and the Leuites by the temporall sworde to punishe the disobediente But is there no other works of the Kings office besides this Uatablus vnder standeth it that as the priest medled with the weightie causes at Ierusalem so also the Leuites shoulde be ouer the lesser causes Causae CiutuÌ„ cognoscebontur à Leuitis causaeauteÌ„ Regtae à Zabaudiâ—… The causes or controuersies perteyning to the citizens should be herd of the Leuites and the causes and controuersies perteyning to the King should be herd of Zabaudias Neither of these vnderstande these words so generally of al the doings belonging in any wise to the office of a king In lyke case for the priestes gouernment in suche thinges as belong to God Id est sayth Uatablus quod pertinet ad rem diuinam To wite so farre as perteyneth to the diuine seruice or the dyuine administration And you wrest it to be vnderstoode simply for all ecclesiasticall matters and all causes of religion Besides that Fifthly ye reason styll after youre wonted fashion from the distinction of the thynges and vvorkes of eithers perticuler functions to the taking away of the Princes supreme gouernement ouer those distincte workes and functions Howe dothe this argument followe The king appoyntes one ouer Gods workes and another distinct from him ouer his owne workes Ergo the king hath not a supreme gouernement ouer them both to ouersée theÌ„ to do those works Your conclusions therfore last of all are faultie neither directly following vpon your premisses and comprehending much more then they inferre This part of your conclusion that
setting vp of Images I thinke your selfe was halfe ashamed to shewe but muche more afrayed to note by whoâ—…e authoritie thys Councell was called and ordred which had béene perteyning to the issue betwéene the Bishop Master Feck But we shall see more thereof when we come thereto Ye are very straight laced For defacing and burning the Images of all Hallowes of Christ and of Christes Images and this ye call villanie But ye make no boanes to deface and burne as villaynes and herelikes the very all Hallowes in déede of Christ his true and liuely Images and members this is no villanie with you at all But euen your owne bookes yea your owne Pope if Clement were a Pope and if the worke were his condemneth you For what doe you herein otherwise thâ—… did the Heathen â–ª If whom he writeth thus That Serpent also is woont to alleage such woordes as this we worship visible Images to the honour of the inuisible God but this is most certainely false for if in deede yee will worship the Image of God yee shoulde in doing of good deedes vnto man worship the verie Image of God for in euery man is the Image of god His similitude is in no other things but there where is a benigne and pure minde If ye will therefore honour truely the Image of God wee open to you that whiche is the truth that yee doe well to man whiche is the Image of God giue honour and reuerence to him giue meate to the hungrie and to the thirstie drinke to the naked cloathing succour to the sicke harborough to the straunger minister to him that is in prison such things as hee needeth And this is that which in deede shall be counted giuen to god These things do so much redounde to the honor of Gods Image that he which doth them not is thought to do villanie to Gods Image VVhatkin worship then of God is this to gad vp and downe after stonie and wodden shapes to worship theÌ„ as though they were godheads being vaine figures and without life and dispise man in whome is the very Image of god But knowe ye for certaintie that he that committeth murther or whoredome yea whatsoeuer he doth to hurte or iniurie men in all these thinges is the Image of God violated c. vnderstande ye therefore that this is the Diuels suggestion lurking in you which persuadeth you ye may seeme godly while ye worship vnsensible thinges and not to seeme vngodly while ye hurt both sensible and reasonable creatures Thus saith your Pope not onely to the Heathen then but also to you vsing the same Heathen fashions now standing so much on the defacing burning and villaning Gods Images as ye call them of woode stone And your selues burne deâ—…ace and villaine the very Images of God either not knowing the true Images of God but taking dead pictures for his Image or wittingly reiecte your Popes aduertisement and do contrary to your consciences But as ye thus deface Gods very Image so deface ye God him selfe Ye stande much vppon his pretended Image and yet ye regarde not him his worde nor his commaundement Ye honour ye say his Image and dishonour him selfe I omit the foresaid dishonoringes of him in your inuocation in iustifiyng your wicked concupiscence from beyng sinne c. ye dishonour him euen in the Images that ye made of him to honour him by Was not this a dishonour of God to picture him out like a Creature like a sinner like a corruptible man like an old greybearded Father yea like a monster with three faces in one head as the â—…eathen pictured Ianus with two faces or Gerion with thrée bodies or Cerberus with three heads what was dishonour to God if this were not to set out any picturs of God yea after the portrature of man whose bodie though it is Formae praestamissimâ—… Of a most comely shape is yet so vnsitting for God that S. Augustine calleth it Sacrilege Yea God sende it â—…all not out that ye mainteyne a foule Heresie of the Trinitie therein But how cunningly soeuer ye shall cleere your selfe thereof a great dishonoring of God it was A lie can not be an honour to him that is truth and a spirite and will be worshipped in spirite and truth not in a bodely Figure and that a false figure too if the picture of God be not a lye when sawe ye God at any time if ye neuer sawe him ye go by blinde ghessâ—… Yea if he him selfe euen for this purpose when he would most shew him selfe would yet shewe no bodily figure least any should Worship him by any bodily Fiigure will you presume to make after your fantaâ—…ies a bodâ—…ly forme or rather deformitie of him how can this be but a lie a dishonour an Idolatrie and presuâ—…npteouse rebellion against Gods purpose and expresse commaundement Euen as Iob saith Currit impuis contra Deum extentâ—… collo The wicked runneth against God euen with a stretched out necke Thus as you deface God pretending his honour so deface ye those Saincts that ye call al â—…hallowes euen vnder the pretence of honoring them and their Images For if it be not honour to God to honour him by a picture thinke you it is than an honour to his Saincts to be honored by pictures and if his Saincts themselues refused honour will they haue their pictures honored Your shifte that ye make of unlearned and lay mennes bookes neither will any thing auaile you nor your selues vse it otherwyse than for a shifte For ye vsed them not as remembrancers but ye honored them as helpers Now if a learned man may not knéele créepe crouche offer and praye to his booke thoughe the booke were of the Saintes lyues neuer so muche yea thoughe it were Gods booke Moyses honoured not the verie Tables writen with the finger of God by what priuiledge then may the Lay and vnlearned person honoure knéele offer and praye vnto their bookes yea admitting the case that Images were the Idiotes bookes as ye call them But God wote they are verie Idiots that haue no other but suche bookes And more Idiots that thus honoure their bookes And you most Idiotes of all I am afrayde that make suche Idiotes reasons The Idolatry that ye made the people to commit was to manifest The practises ye vsed were to broade The tales that your Legendes tell of the workes of Images are tootoo shamefull M. Stapleton Ye tell vs howe the picture of the Uirgin Marie was Bawde to Beatrice a Nonne the space of the xv yere while she played the common strumpet Ye tell vs that at Spire Ubi adoratur Imago Sancta dei genetricis quae ad sanctuÌ„ Bernardum tribus vicibus locuta est c. Where the Image of the holy mother of God is adored which spake three times to S. Bernarde A boy gaue hir childe a piece of bread criyng Pu
Dauids bagge will make you M. Stap. so tottle vp your héeles that we may safely cutte off your head the Pope euen with your owne weapon for all these your cries and crakes But like a lustie champion as though ye had made a sufficient conquest ye say ye wil forbeare at this time to speake of the residue of our noble progenitours Coragiously sayde M. St. when ye haue done the worste ye can and spit out all your poyson then tell vs ye wil forbeare vs Wel then at the length thaÌ„ks be to God ye haue done with our ancestors as ye cal theÌ„ haue ben answered as ye haue heard Now let others in gods name iudge of vs both as they shal find the falshood or veritie of these matters May it nowe please you M. Sta. to giue me leaue a while to runne at randoÌ„ the same race that you haue done and to vse your owne words Good sir may it please you fauorably to heare your and your masters honorable pedegree and of their worthy feates and prowesse First what say you to the Phariseis that seuered them selues from all the people in their strange apparell in their fastings prayers and other poynts of hypocrisie described out by Christ in so much that they preferred them selues aboue al men so were counted as in whoÌ„ religion did only or most consist so like in euery poynt to your Monkes and Friers deuided froÌ„ other men by their rules profession and estéemed called onely or chiefly religious men VVhat say ye agayne to the Phariseis that kept the key of knowledge among them selues and would neither them selues enter in nor suffer other to enter but rather be blind guides and leaders of the blinde so like to your Prelates and you pretending to be the pastors of the people and kéepers of the worde of God but so to kéepe it that not only ye kept the people from it but for the most part your Priests were ignoraunt of it and blinder guides of the blinde then euer the Phariseis were VVhat say ye agayne to the Phariseis that brought traditions into the Church besides the worde of God and transgressed the worde of God for their traditions sake Wherin for one tradition of the Phariseis so brought in the Papistes haue brought in a score at the least and if I shoulde say an hundreth I spake within my bounds VVhat say ye to the same Phariseis that defended a maÌ„ might do all that the law commaundeth and obteine iustification and heauen therby But héere the Papistes go beyonde them that say we not onely may do all but more than all that euer God commaunded workes of counsel of voluntarie of supererogatioÌ„ like to the Foxe with more than a thousand wiles in coÌ„parison of the poore catte but the Phariseis herein were nothing stored like the Papists What say ye to the Saduces that sayde we haue powre frée will to do good or badde What say ye to the Esseni that liued in woods and solitary places and eate onely rootes and herbes counting all righteousnesse to consist in streight rules of life although herein you be but counterfeits to them and I do them iniuiurie in this comparison to you whose Friers Monkes Heremites and Anachores were nothing comparable but méere Pharisaicall hypocrites What say ye euen to Simon Magus your selfe with whom you charge vs that first began to mingle the Iewish and heathen ceremonies with Christianitie What say ye agayne to Simon Magus that would haue made sales of the giftes of the holy ghost as the Pope maketh sale of his Indulgences graces What say ye agayn to Simon Magus that came to Rome and there was honored as God as the Pope not like Gods viâ—…ar as he pretendeâ—… but like God him self is there honored and claimeth here in earth to haue the power of God according as Simon Magus named him selfe the power of God. What say ye once againe to Simon Magus and all his ofspring that mainteyned filthie fornication as the Pope doth stewes courteianes and Concubines What say ye to the Heretikes called Sethiani Of whome saith S. Augustine Multa de principatibuâ—… potestatibus vanâ—…ssima 〈◊〉 They faigne many moste vaine thinges of principalities and powers according as do your fabling bookes of the celestiall Hierarchies in the name of Diâ—…nisius and other like What say ye to the Carpocratians that to mainteine their wicked liues false opinions did say that Iesus taught those things to his Disciples and Apostles aparte from his written worde and deliuered them by tradition to be kept as the Pope and all the Papistes say for defence of traditions and vnwritten verities as they call them besides the written worde of Christ. What say ye to the Cainites that made inuocation vnto Angels but the Papistes made inuâ—…cation not only to Angels but to dead men and women also yea and to thinges vnsensible What say ye to the Theodotians that would take from and put to the worde of God and that they had authoritie to correct thâ—…se things that were not well and saide they were therein wiser than the holy Ghost as do the Papists adde to the worde of God their traditions and suppresse and â—…iminish the authoritie of Gods worde saying their Church is of greater authoritie by them and they haue furder knowledge of Gods spirite than is contâ—…ined in the written worde of God. What say ye to the Basilidians that to their Disciples commaunded â—…ue yéeres silence as your Monkes Friers Heremites Anaâ—…hores c. enioyned to their nouices silence at certaine times and did all by beckes and noddes and if a worde were spoken all their perfection were marde What say ye moreouer to the Basilidians that painted and carued the Image of Christ and worshipped it As I haue shewed the Papists did what kinde of worship socuer ye would excuse the matter withall What say ye to the Cerdoniaus that reiected the ensamples of the old Testament as you M. St. and M. Dorman in this controuersie of supremacie do What say you to Montanus that first appointed lawes of fasting which before were frée as is shewed already in the Article thereon That said the holy Ghost taught him more and better greater things than Christ taught in the Gospell as your Papistes say for their vnwritten verities and workes of supererogation Ascribing a greater perfection to such voluntarie workes than to the workes expressed and commaunded in the worde of God. What say ye againe to the Montanistes that abrogated the authoritie of Gods wâ—…rde as I haue shewed ye in Pigghius and Alphonsus that the Papistes do What say ye againe to the Montanistes that boasted much of mysteries but nothing so many nor so mystie as the Papists were That said to accuse and condemne themselues to be sinners was to sclaunder them selues as the Papists that can not abide
the Letanie for saying so often Lorde haue mercy vppon vs miserable sinners and for saying Amen to the curses recited against the wicked Besides that I haue shewed alreadie how they iustifie them selues with puritie of nature with fréewill with preparatiue workes meritorious more than mâ—…ritorious workes of perfectioÌ„ What say ye to the same Montanistes that vnder the pretence of offerings craftely gathered and extorted of the people great summes of monie But not the hundreth parte that the popish Priests offrings brought in What say ye againe to the Montanistes with whom the Prophicieâ—… of Priscilla and â—…aximilla were in greater honour than the holy Gospels of Iesus Christe as likewise the blinde Prophecies of the Papistes to the which they giue more credite than to the true Prophets that haue set forth Gods worde What say ye once againe to Montanus that taught the dissoluing contemning of Matrimâ—…nie for religioÌ„ sake in all which thingâ—… how nere your Papists follow Montanus steppes is very apparant to the easie conferrer What say ye to the Tessarescedecatitae which vsed and alleaged forged bookes in the Apostles names called Apocrypha as the Papistes make Canonicall the bookes so called besides that they alleage and set out their S. Thomas gospell Nichodemus gospell The actes of S. Peter The fables of Lazarnâ—… the birth life death and assumption of the blessed virgin and many such other counterfaite bookes to establishe their Masse Purgatorie Reliques Traditions and other such errours by them What say you to the Seueriani of Seuerus that saide a wench called Phâ—…lumene was enspired with the holy ghost to foretel things to come to whom declaring his dreames burnings of his minde she would warne him secretly as it were of things to come and that she should sée phantasies come vnto hir in the likenesse of a childe which childe appering would now and then say he were Christ now and then S. Paule that the spirite told hir such things as she told the people that she wrought such miracles of which this was the chiefe that she woulde put a great loafe into a glasse hauing a narrow mouth and with the tippe of hir fingars take it out againe vnbroakeÌ„ that she eate nothing els but that as sent hir from god Compare these things with the Popish practises in their visions trances and miracles of their she â—…incts S. Bridgits Reuelations the trances of the holy mayde in Kente the Pâ—…ell of Fraunce the she saint that Sir Thomas More telleth of in his booke of Pilgrimages and sée how much they differ What say you to the Taciani that would admitte none into their rules and orders were they men or women that renounced not Mariage as none may be admitted to the Popish orders or rules of their religions that haue not vowed not to marie What say you to the Alogiani that as is saide before stood vppon vnwritten verities and reiected the written worde of God What say ye to the Angelici that bowed them selues downe in the worship of Angels What say ye to the Apostolici which most arrogantly called them selues by this name as do your Popes call theÌ„ selues Apostolicall and they receiue not into their communion those that vse wiues as your Papistes will admitte no married Priests to consecrate at their Masse nor they receiued any that professe any proprietie of their goods as your Monkes and Friers do pâ—…tende of whome saith S. Augustine Quales habet Ecclesia Monachos Clericos plurimos Such as the Church hath many MoÌ„kes Clerkes No meruayle then if your Monkes and Priests do so now for the Heresie of your Apostolical as ye cal it but in déede apostaticall Church herein is of faire antiquitie What say you to the Manichaei with whom ere while ye falsely charged vs They forbid as S. Augustine saithe mariage so much as in them lieth They saide that by chastitie Prayers and Psalmes they purged their liues sent them to heauen They craked of false AbstineÌ„cie and Continencie to deceyue the simple They boasted that they forsooke all things for God and did arrogate to them selues all the blessings mencioned in the Gospell They added and tooke from the Scriptures so much as they pleased pretending they had bene or might be corrupted and preferred the bookes called Apocrypha They said the promise of Iesus Christ concerning the holy ghost the comforter was fulfilled in their Archmanichée as the Papists besides all the other aforesayde say the same promise of the holy ghost is fulfilled in their Arch prelate the Pope And as Manicheus called himselfe the Apostle of Iesu Christ so your Pope in his Bulles prefixeth the authoritie Apostolicall of Peter and Paule Moreouer they reiected flesh egges and milke which the Papists dâ—… on certaine dayes they reiected also the proprietie of goodes as due the begging Friers What say ye to the Hierachitae that likewise as these would receyue none into their societie but vnmaried men and women Such were also your Aerians whome falsly you obiect to vs being more like to them your selues admitting none but suche as were continent as renounced the worlde and would possesse nothing of their owne What say ye to the Psalliani and Euchitae that were all giuen to mumbling vp of prayers and sayde that Monkes ought not to labour to get their liuing and therefore they professed themselues to be Monkes bicause they woulde do no worke but pray Whom Erasmus in his defence against the Sorbonists being appeached onely for saying Christuâ—… in orando damnat multiloquâ—…um Christ doth condemne much babling in prayer likeneth the Papists vnto Denique Psalliani siue Euchitae c. To conclude the Psalliani or Euchitae haue augmented the beadroll of Heretikes who lyuing in idlenesse dispatched vp an heape of psalmes with a marueylous rolling of the tongue What say ye to the Pattalorinchitae which did so giue themselues to silence that at suche times as they thought they must holde their peace they would lay their fingers on their nose and lippes least they should speakâ—… a worde as I noted before of the Basilidians both whome herein your religious men resembled What say ye to the Aquarij which mingled water with wine in the Sacrament as all the Papist do What say you to the barefoote Heretikes that walked vp and downe barefoote and woulde weare no shooes like the barefoote Friers What say you to the Priscillianists that had this rule among them Iura periura secretum prodere nolâ—… Sweare and forsweare bewray not the secrete not onely like the dissembling Papistes practise among vs that will sweare and forsweare themselues to the Prince with false hollow heartes in truth â–ª and yet in falshood trustie to their confederates nor will bewray their secrete conspiracies but also like the rule of your Pope and all his perfect faythfull ones Nulla â—…ides tenenda
nâ—…n at Louaine that ye would be thought no hedgeâ—…réeper â–ª nor â—…uedropper as sâ—… of your broode are peaking here in lusâ—…y lanes and lurking in corners and yet they court theÌ„ selues no more Donatistes than you NotwithstaÌ„ding it appeareth for all your crakes bragges ye haue not that stout courage fâ—…r your raâ—…se but that ye like Louaine better than M. 〈◊〉 â—…ging and had rather blow your 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 like 〈◊〉 lâ—…ytorer in a lusky lane or hide your head 〈◊〉 the corner of an old â—…otten barne rather than warme your selfe with a â—…aggot aâ—… a â—…ake in Smithfielde suche as was the crueltie of your Popish tyrannie to those that constantly abode the terrible brunt therof And although other giuing place to your furie either of their owne infirmitie or that God preserued them to a better oportunitie did then flée or hide them selues what dyd they héerein that Chryst gaue them not licence example and commaundement so to do Ye might aswell obiect this to those Saincts of God of whome S. Paule telleth that they wente about in the wildernesse of whome the worlde was vnworthy Why say ye not Elias lurked in lusky lanes when he sted the face of Iesabell Why say ye not that Athanasius crepte into corners when he hidde him selfe seueÌ„ yeres in a Cesterne an harder harborough than a rotten barne For shame M. Stap. learne to make a difference betwéene the perfecution and the cause of it or else this were an easie argument to make all Donatistes yea your selues also And would to God all corners rotten barnes and luskie lanes were wel ransacked some luskes I think would appeare in their likenesse whom ye would be loth should be founde out M. Stapleton Thirdly ye say The donatistes when they could not iustifie their owne doctrine nor disproue the Catholikes doctrine leauing the doctrine fell to rayling agaynst the vitious life of the Catholikes In this poynt who be Donatistes I referre me to Luthers and Caluines bookes especially to M. Iewell and to your owne Apologie Ye nâ—…ede not M. Stap. referre your selfe so farre referre your selfe to your selfe a Gods name yea go no further than this your Counterblast I warrant ye you blow such a blast héerein that ye maye well encounter master D. Harding master D. Saâ—…ders M. Dorman M. Marshall or any other of your writers thoughe they haue all godly giftes in this poynt yet this your Rhel horicall grace of rayling goeth so farre beyonde them all that they are scarse worthy to cary the wispe after you M. Stap. Onely at this I maruell that like the wiseman when he tolde how many were in the companie he neuer reckoned him selfe that you hauing so pregnant a vayne héerein do still forget your selfe But belike it is for this cause that as ye surmount all your companie so ye goe beyonde the Donatistes also who as ye saye rayled onely agaynst the vitious lyues But you where ye finde no vitious life to rayle agaynst the Protestantes fall to slaundering and reuiling euen their godly and vertuous liues Fourthly ye say The Donatistes refused the opeÌ„ knowne catholike Churche and sayde the Church remayned onely in those that were of their side in certaine corners of Afrike And sing not you the like song preferring your Geneua VVittenberge before the whole Churche beside The Donatistes as you say M. St. tied the Churche to Affrike and wrested the scripture for it forsaking the open knowne catholike Church in déede But you shoulde haue proued your popish Church to be that open knowne catholike Church now which they refused then If ye saye you proue that bicause they refused the church of Rome then your church is the church of Rome now if ye vnderstaÌ„d the church for the coÌ„gregation of the faythful ye vtter a double vntruth For they-refused not only the coÌ„gregation then at Rome but of al the world besides and agayne your church or congregation of Rome now is nothing the same or lyke the same in religion that it was then If ye meane by the church of Rome the Citie of Rome and the Popes chayre there then ye proue your selues to be Donatistes that tye the churche of Christ dispersed euery where to the seate of Rome as they did vnto Aphrike And if ye meane by the open knowne catholike Churche the multitude of people acknowledging your Popes sâ—…ate at Rome then agayne are ye Donatists by your second poynt in craking of multitude depending on Rome a corner in Italie as ye saye the Donatistes craked of their multitude depeÌ„ding on their corners in Affrike As for vs we depende neither vpon Geneua nor VVittenberge nor tye the Church of Christ vnto them nor preferre them either before the whole catholike church or any parte thereof nor referre men vnto them for the triall of the Church or to any other place else but allow them and all and singuler other places where the worde of God is sincerely set fooâ—…th where Idolatrie errours superstition are abolished We 〈◊〉 to the mountaynes as Chrysostome expoundeth it Quâ—… sunt Christiani conferant se ad scripturaâ—… They that are ChristiaÌ„s let them get them to the scriptures And why not to Rome Ierusalem and suche other mountaynes but onely to the scriptures Bicause saith he since that heresie hath possessed the Churches there caÌ„ be no triall of true christianitie nor refuge of Christians that would trie out the truthe of fayth but the deuine scriptures Before it coulde haue bene knowne diuers wayes whiche was the Church which was Gentilitie But nowe there is none other wayes to know which is in deede the very church of Christ but all onely by the Scriptures If they therefore set foorthe the Scriptures we acknowledge them to be of the Church of christ Let Rome doe this and we will as gladly acknowledge Rome to be of the Churche of Chryst as either Wittenberge or Genâ—…ua â–ª Yea as S Hierome sayth which is also put in the Popes owne decrées Eugâ—…bium Constantinople Rhegium Alexandrie Thebes Guarmatia or any other place if it professe the truthe with Geneua and Wittenberge For on this consideration sayth S. Augustine the Churche is holy and catholike not bicause it dependeth on Rome or any other place nor of any multitude obedient to Rome bothe whiche are Donatisticall but quia recte credit in DeuÌ„ bicause it beleeueth rightly on God. This is our song M. Stap. of Geneua VVittenberge Affrica yea and of Rome too And if you can sing any better note I giue you good leaue for me onely I would wish you howsoeuer ye sing to leaue your flat lying tune in saying Fifthly say you The Donatistes corrupted the fathers bookes wonderfully and were so impudent in alleaging them that in their publique conference at Carthage they pressed muche vpon Optatus wordes and layde him foorth as an author making for theÌ„ who yet wrote expresly against them and in all
in déede follow M. Sta. but it doth not alwayes followe â–ª A man may refuse manifest proufes of the old Testament and yet graunt such things besides that he may be concluded yea by his owne graunt â–ª And so is M. Feckenham here concluded as graunting the newe Testament the Councels and Fathers For since al these alleage he proufes of the old Testament he is forced by conclusioÌ„ of necessarie consequence to graunt also to the old Testament Except he be as peeuish as the Donatistes that granted thus much also and yet refused the manifest proufes and examples of the old Testament Although their own péeuishnesse conuinced theÌ„ but still they stoode on the bare wordes as you do and refused inclusiue proufes followed they neuer so necessarily And so did your selfe before require the Bare title of this supremacie to be shewed in the exaÌ„ples of the old Testament elâ—… you reiect the exaÌ„ples agrée they neuer so much in matter But now contrary ye say M. Feckenham doth allow and affirme the proufes of the old Testament bicause they may be included in those pointes that he alleageth but he would be loath they should be included as thankes be to God they be and so Uolens uolens beyonde his expectation is enforced with them But what is this to excuse him more thaÌ„ the Donatists if he had not of set purpose slonke from the manifest proufe examples of the old Testament for otherwise he might as soone haue expresly named the old Testament as he expresly named the new And so should he haue gone directly simply to worke not indirectly with a Circumquaque haue referred the old Testament to such inclusions as you here would shake off the matter withall chiefly since the old Testament hauing no included but expresse proufes is so expresly vrged of vs And yet if he would haue included the old Testament as you say vnder the name of the new Testament why specifieth he the one so plaine not the other at all if he did it for breuitie he might most briefly haue saide the Scriptures which worde had comprehended included both so had he shewed that he allowed the proufes of the old Testament also Ha M. Stapl. Ueritas non querit angulos The truth seekes no inclusiue corners goe plainly man to worke for very shame For yet for all your inclusions here to colour the matter in other places where this is not layde vnto your charge both your selfe and M. Dorman quite excludeth the examples of the old Testament from the new as not fit paterns for Princes to followe Doing herein what pretences so euer you here include euen as M. Feckenham dothe and the Donatistes did before And that Master Feckenham did no other but euen of purpose conceale the old Testamentes examples as foreseing that they made against him I will aske no better witnesse than your owne selfe Master Stapleton that by all these couerte inclusions go aboute to excuse him But when ye can not make any good excuse in conclusion yea in your next wordes ye bewray all the matter ye could hold it no lenger for your life blabbe it wist and out it must And surely say you wise men vse not greatly to shew that maketh against them but most for them Holde your hande from the booke M. St. ye neuer saide truer worde in all your life Ye hitte the pricke there in déede and tell the very cause why he concealed the name of the old Testament and shewed it not in his large and ample offer Bicause say you wise men surely vse not greatly to shew that maketh against them but most for them but M. Feckenham surely is a wise man Ergo he sheweth not in his offer the name of the old Testament bicause the proufes thereof make against him but onely put the name of the new Testament bicause he thought that made moste for him True Master Stapl. thus do the children of this world beyng wiser in their generations than the childreÌ„ of light not shewe â–ª as ye say but conceale the truthe of God bicause they sée it maketh agaynst them But herein M. St. for all your iolie witte and wisedome that ye vaunte vppon so often your wisdome ouershot it selfe Surely ye did not like one of these wise men but rather like one of the wise men of Gotham God turning your wisedome into folly that confesse those examples and proufes to make against M. Feckenham or at least wise that he so feared and therefore he sheweth not the name of the old Testament but concealeth it And thus while your drift is to proue that he shifteth not off those proufes and examples you confesse that he of very purpose not minding as ye saide before to include them but to exclude them leaueth them out and sheweth them not but shifteth them of and that of a shamefull purpose only bicause they make against him Where if he had any sparke of truth and conscience he would not hide that in Gods worde that maketh against him But perceyuing that those prouses make against him would withall perceiue him self to be in a manifest errour and neuer let worldly wisedome so ouercome him that he should be ashamed openly to confesse that he striueth against the truth And you M. Stapleton had ye any grace confessing the truth to be against him except ye be a very Manichee that set the old Testament against the newe would perceyue that if the old were against him then the newe were also against him and would euen here hurle away the penne that should defende such a shifter off and hider of the truthe against your conscience So farre would ye be from this impudencie to write that he affirmeth and comprehendeth that which of wisedome as ye call it he purposely concealeth and that he alloweth that which he hides as making against him Whiche is no point of wisedome M. Stapleton but rather of starke follie and méere contradiction to it selfe and to all your former excuses And thus speaking of wise men to shewe your selfe in the number ye speake against him whome ye are hyred and labour to defende ye speake against your selfe yea against your cause and all So doth God make them shew their owne shame that wittingly will be hyred with Balaam to resist his open truth Confusi sunt sapientes c. The wise men are confounded sayth the Lord they shal be astonied and taken for lo they haue cast out the word of the Lorde what wisdome can be among them And so hath God here infatuate M. St. that wheÌ„ he hath bewrayed the very cause why M. Feck shewed not in his offer the name of the old TestameÌ„t so wel as of the new to be bicause he thought it made agaynst him therefore did like a wise man to leaue it out he concludeth most foâ—…dly euen the quite contrarie VVherfore sayth he it is incredible that M. Feck should once imagine any
fowly therin who findeth a péeuish fault with Thapologie euen for this that it reciteth not the common creede But can ye say your common creede M. St For it may be to conster it to the best that this your errour is rather of ignorance I thinke ye say your common Creede in Latin oftner than in Englishe for in Englishe ye reâ—…ke not howe fewe can say it and yet ye hitte it truer in Englishe than in Latin. But you that reprehende the byshop and other for Grammer in englishing of wordes so exactly I pray you by what newe founde figure of Grammer do ye englishe Incarnatus est de spiritu sancto He was conceyued by the holy Ghost In good sooth M. Stap. ye were héere somewhat coÌ„ceyued amisse your selfe And this was a greater ouershotte than any of your common petit quarels besides this foyle most of all that ye can not perfectly say the common Creede nor write it rightly in your booke that almost eche plow boy can say without the booke Ye tell vs Thapologie reciting the common Créede omitteth Incarnatus est de spiritu sancto whereas those wordes are not in the common Creede The wordes of the common Creede are these Qui conceptus est de spiritu sancto with whiche agréeth Damasus Creede and not Qui incarnatus est de spiritu sancto Thus haue all the bookes that I haue séene and yet I haue looked a good many to see if any write it as you do whereby I mighte the rather holde you excused The wordes that you recite are the words of the Nicene creede which ye haue put in your Masse But belike ye sing Masse oftner than ye say the coÌ„mon Créede so tooke that which ye commonly vsed to be the common creede Well say you howsoeuer it be ye haue héere omitted both incarnatus and conceptus too â–ª And therfore by your own rule and example heere might we crie out vpon you all as Apollinarians and Eutichians In déede M. Sta â–ª no man can let ye to crie out and crow out that we be what soeuer it please you to crie out vpon vs But howe well and truely ye may crie it out that is another matter For by the same rule and example you might crie out also vppon Ireneus that omitteth this article in his Créede Ye might crie out of Tertullian that likewise omitteth it Ye might crie out vppon S. Ambrose and S. Augustine that are said to haue compiled the himne Te ' Deum Ye might crie out vppon Athanasius Creede Quicunque vult And vppon diuerse other that omitte this Article of the conception of Christ by the holy ghost And yet are they neither Apollinarians nor Eutichians But looke you to it whether any of their Heresies touch your or no euen in maintenance of their hereticall doctrine You stretch the rule to farre and to generally M. Stap. euery forflowne omission by chaunce as your selfe say where no speciall occasion is giuen is not a subtile refusall Nor so M. Feckenham is charged your selfe haue shewed he did it wittingly yea wisely as you say and he thought to omitte that that he is chiefly charged withall bicause it made against him If the fathers and the Apologie did thus in their omission then hardly lay it to their charges and therein ye shall do but well For otherwise as you would retorte this on vs see how sone and how sore it might be retorned on you yea and that in the selfe same place where of very purpose ye say the common creede and say to the Bishop in your foâ—…rth booke about the number of the articles that ye will bring him to his Catechisme which vnlesse ye thought your selfe a cumming student in Diuinitie and specially well traueled in your abâ—…e ye woulde not else take vpon you to teache a Bishop In déede your Bishops were verie blinde but thankes be to God our Bishops are no such blinde guides that they should néede to learne their Catechisme of you But let vs sée how do ye teache him when ye come euen to the common creede how ye number the Articles although concerning your quarell at the number of the articles I wil answere God willing in his proper place The first article then is say you I beleue in god The second I beleue in God the father The. 3. I beleue that he is omnipotent The. 4. That he is the creator of heauen and earth The. 5. I beleue in Iesus Christ. And here proceding to other Articles ye leaue quite out these wordes his onely sonne our Lorde Why do ye thus M. Stapleton do ye not beléeue that Iesus Christ is the sonne of God and that he is the onely sonne of God and that he is our Lorde Looke well to this geare M. St. here is first after the manner of your accounting thrée articles omitted and one of them such a speciall point as we charge you with that ye take away his Lordship now ye take away his sonneship too Will ye say this was ouerhipped by chaunce or forslowne well be it-so although euen in saying the common Creede suche a forslowne scape might deserue a yerking in a yong scholler but more shamefull it is in a Diuine yea in such a Diuine as will take vpon him to teach a Bishop But why not would not the sow take vppon hir to teach Minerua but let vs sée your furder teaching The sixte I beleeue that he was conceyued of the holy ghost The seuenth that he was borne of the virgine Mary The eight that he suffered vnder Pontius Pilaâ—…us Here once againe ye omitte these wordes crucified dead and buried conteyning also after your reckening thrée other articles and ye leaue them cleane out Whether it be that ye cannot say the Créede perfectly which were a foule blotte or which is worse that ye purposely leaue them out like the wise men that vse not greatly to shewe that that maketh against them For the popishe doctrine is so flatte diuerse wayes against the death of Christ that it quite taketh away the vertue and effect therof And therefore the Papistes séeke to be saued by so many meanes besides But whether ye leaue it out for this or any other priuier cause or open I remitte it to your owne purgation and to other mens coniectures You procéede and say And the ninth that he descended into hell The tenth that he arose from death The eleuenth that he ascended into heauen And the twelfth that he shall come to iudge the quicke and the deade Thus againe haue ye left out an other Article that hee sitteth at the right hand of God the father almightie Which is also materiall in the controuersie betwene vs of your transubstantiation whiche errour as it cleane confuteth so it argueth you to be the very Eutichians your selues as is alreadie proued out of Theodoretus More things are to be noted about this your dealing in in the
haue thought they had done God good seruice too so that he would haue maintayned them And do not you euen so what els maketh ye crie vpon the Princes beyond the seas with all kinde of torments to destroy the Protestants If Princes would aduise them selues or euer they beléeued you so lightly and would not destroy their subiects till they had sit in iudgmâ—…t heard discussed both parties causes throughly ye would not be halfe so hastie Ye would then crie to the contrarie that you must only be iudges they must onely beleue you strike onely them whom you shall bidde them strike Contrarywise where the Princes espying your falshood forsake your errours and sette out euen very milde lawes against you then ye change your coppie and crie out euery thing is extreme crueltie ye are too too sore handled and oppressed then ye extoll beyonde the moone lenitie and sufferance and winche like a gald horse at the least thing that toucheth you And thus euery way do you still shew your selues to be the very Donatistes Now that ye haue as you conceyue with your selfe giuen vs so great a foyle ye enter into your thirde parte saying VVe may now proceede to the remnant of your booke sauing that this in no wise must be ouerhipped that euen by your owne wordes here ye purge M. Feckenham from this crime ye laide vnto him euen now for refusing the proufeâ—… taken out of the old Testament Now for God M. St. since hitherto ye haue cléered him so sclenderly that ye haue more bewrapped him and your selfe also in this crime let nothing in any case be forgotten or ouerhipped that any wayes may helpe the matter forwarde for hitherto it rather hath gone backward but now there is good hope M. Feckenham shall take a good purgation euen of the Bishops owne making that you M. Stap. will minister to him which wil so worke vpon him make him haue so good a stoole that he shal be clerely purged of this crime of Donatistes â—…o to then M. Stapl and let vs sée how apothecarylike you can minister the same For if as ye say say you the order gouernment that Christ left behind in the Gospell new Testament is the order rule gouernment in ecclesiastical causes practised by the Kings of the old Testament then will it follow that M. Feckenham yelding to the gouernment of the new doth not exclude but â—…ather comprehende the gouernment of the old Testament also both being especially as ye say all one Is this the purgation M. St. that ye will minister to M. Feckenham would to God ye could make him receyue anâ—… brooke this sentence if you would take it also I warrent ye it would so purge you of your old leuen sowre dough that ye should no more be Donatists nor Papistes neither if ye receyue and well digest this little sentence The order and gouernment that Christ left behinde in the new Testament is the order rule and gouernment in Ecclesiasticall causes practised by the kinges of the old Testament For then giue ye Princes that that ye haue all this while denied theÌ„ But do ye thinke M. Feckenham will wittingly and willingly receiue this sentence that which in déede followeth necessarily thereon The sentence is true but M. Feck for all that may be a lier and you another For I warrant you M. Feck granteth this no â—…urder than as the Donatists he may temper it to make it seeme to serue his turne Why say you if he grant the onâ—… he doth not exclude but rather comprehende the other Nay M. St. M. Feck coÌ„preheÌ„des it not but shoonnes it as agaynst him by your owne confession But the olde being comprehended by the newe Master Feckenham is contrarie wise by force of argument graunting the newe enforced by the olde Not that he comprehendeth it but is comprehended of it and driuen to yeelde thereto of his aduersarie by conclusion of reasoning the one including the other But rather than he will do this voluntarily he will rather exclude them both the olde and the newe testament also and as he hath done burne them both togither The. 20. Diuision THe Bishop in this diuision first gathereth his full conclusion of all these testimonies into this argument What gouernment order and dutifulnesse so euer belonging to any God hath prefigured and promised before hande by his Prophetes in the holy scriptures of the olde Testament to be performed by Christ those of his Kingdom that is the gouernment order and dutifulnesse set forth and required in the Gospell or new testament But that faythfull Emperours Kinges and Rulers ought of dutie as belonging to their office to claime and take vpon them the gouernment authoritie power care and seruice of God the Lorde in matters of Religion or causes Ecclesiasticall was an order and dutifulnesse for them prefigured and forepromised of God by his Prophetes in the Scriptures of the olde Testament as Saint Augustine hath sufficiently witnessed Ergo Christian Emperors Kings and Rulers owe of dutie as belonging to their office to clayme and take vpon them the gouernment authoritie power care and seruice of God their Lorde in matters of Religion or spirituall ecclesiasticall causes is the gouernment order and dutifulnesse setforth and required in the Gospell or new Testament The Bishop hauing thusfully concluded these Testimonies he yet confirmeth them further with more authorities of the Prophete Esay with Lyra his exposition therevpon and the example of Constantine for proufe of the same At this master Stapleton first carpeth by certaine marginall notes or euer he blowe vp the Chapter of his Counterblast thereto The minor of the Bishops conclusion for the Princes gouernment authoritie power care c. he grauÌ„teth but not such supreme gouernment sayth he as the othe prescribeth He graunteth also Saint Augustine to witnesse this the Princes gouernment but no such large and supreme gouernment as we attribute now to them Againe he graunteth this supreme gouernment is in causes ecclesiasticall â–ª but not in all causes ecclesiasticall And so graunting that the Bishop concludeth well in some such thing you conclude not sayth he in all things and causes and therefore you conclude nothing agaynst vs. Lastly he graunteth all the Bishops testimonies concerning Constantine but he denieth that it maketh any thing for vs. Nowe after these marginall notes prefixed he entreth into his Chapter pretending to open the weakenesse of the Bishops conclusion and of other his proues oute of holie Scripture And first his aunswere to this diuision he deuideth in thrée partes First he graunteth all that the Bishop hath sayde but denieth that it is sufficient Secondly he quarrelleth about this that the Bishop calleth the Emperour Constantine a Bishop as Eusebius nameth him Thirdly he chalengeth him for calling Idoll Image Now to the first parte to sée whether all these grauntes make sufficiently for vs and conclude against him yea
Cesar then Emperour and stretch no furder If it determine nothing but money If it inferre no necessitie or dutie but only giue licence how then did these Fathers alleage vrge this sentence against these Princes and how do you alleage them against the Bishop do ye not sée how ye speake against your selfe but I forbeare you till ye come to your appointed place Although furder here I might admonish you since ye reherse here no wordes of those authours but referrâ—… yourselfe to another fitter occasion not to stande dalying in so often preuentions and rehersalls and all to no purpose but onely to encrease your volume Much lesse to triumphe therevppon till ye haue sette downe some proufe either of them or of other to confute the Bishop for els ye do but triumphe before the victorie and such commonly in the ende do lâ—…se the victorie For hitherto ye haue alleaged nothing against the Bishops allegation and yet say you This ill happe hath M. Horne euen with his first authoritie of the newe Testament extraordinarily and impertinently I can not tel how chopped in to cause the leaues and his booke and his lies to make the more muster and shewe This was an happie happe for you M. Sta. to ruffle in your Rhetorike that it happed the B. to haue so ill an hap by alleaging this sentence for hereby ye haue shewed first your truth honestie That where the Bishop citeth two plaine sentences out of the new Testament together to coÌ„firme his assertioÌ„ you say he alleageth here but one Where the Bishop citeth this of Cesar the later of the twaine you quite omitting the other say this is his first authoritie of the new Testament Good happe haue you M. St. to haue chopped in two lies so round togither to make the more muster of lies in your booke but happie man happy dole they say With the like happinesse haue ye founde out this grammar rule that Reddite is ye may giue But chiefly this happie new Diuinitie to refuse your Princes lawfull authoritie that necessarily by force of any wordes ye be not bounde to pay so much as any tribute to your Prince All these happes was it your hap first to finde out And therefore all your side haue good cause M. St. to count ye an happie man. But M. St. not content withall these happes stormeth yet against the Bishop for adioyning these wordes Admonishing not withstanding all Princes people that Cesars authoritie is not infinite or without limites for such authoritie belongeth only to the King of all Kinges but bounded and circumscribed within the boundes assigned in Gods worde This M. St. calleth a foolish and a friuolous admonition without any cause or ground grounded on M. Hornes fantasticall imagination and not vpon Christ as he surmiseth Is this M. Stapl. a foolish and a friuolous admonition a groundlesse fantasticall Imagination to say that the Princes authoritie is not infinite but circuÌ„scribed within the boundes assigned in Gods worde what would ye haue had the Bishop to say that it had bene infinite without any boundes such as onely belongeth to God but how would ye then haue triumphed at the matter and in déede ye had had good cause Where now ye haue none but that ye be disposed to quarel at euery thing be it neuer so well spoken Neyther was it without cause or grounde syth the wordes that immediately are ioyned so togither make an expresse limitation that the former part of the sentence is bounded with the later parte that the Prince ought to haue such due belonging to him as hindreth not the yéelding of that due that belongeth to god And therfore the Bishops admonition was not onely godly and true but grounded on Christes wordes yea and comprehendeth them also and was no lesse necessarie for the Bishop to haue vsed both for that it maketh a distinction of that supremacie that your Pope chalengeth intruding and incroching on those things that are only due to God and not suffring his authoritie to be limitted by Gods worde and woulde rule Gods worde and go beyonde the boundes thereof And also for that to the ignorant simple of your side ye slauÌ„der the B. and other setters forth of gods word yea the Quéenes maiestie her self to take on hir and we to yelde to hir such an absolute and indefinite authoritie as taketh from god from his word from his ministers that authoritie that belongeth vnto them Which syth it is your vsuall lying and malicious slaunder to sturre offence to the simple to bring the Prince and Preachers in obloquie and the authoritie in suspition and hatred it was not a friuolous fantasticall imagination as your fantasticall braine imagineth but a most necessarie cause for the B. to haue giuen that admonition to shew what authority we allow in the prince the Prince taketh on hir agréeable to that that Christ coÌ„mauÌ„ds to render Nay say you it is not grouÌ„ded vpoÌ„ christ VVho willeth that to be giuen to Caesar that is Caesars and to God that is Gods but determineth expresseth nothing that is to be giuen to Caesar but onely payment of money And yet if we consider as I haue sayde what was the question demaunded it doth not determine that neither thoughe the thing it selfe be most true Doth this M. St. determine nothing but money yea not so much as that neither whie what doth it determine then nothing say you if we consider as I haue sayde what was the question demaunded In déede M. Stap. if we considered as you haue sayde it would be a very meane determination of any thing And yet if you would better haue considered euen that you haue sayde ye shoulde haue found this your saying to haue bene sayde without your considering cappe For then ye tolde vs that thoughe it forced not that we ought to pay tribute yet it forced that we might pay it which inforceth yet somewhat more than bare nothing And euen héere present ye say that Christ determineth expresseth nothing that is to be giuen to Cesar but onely paymeÌ„t of money And by by ye say it doth not determine that neither And so ye tell vs it dothe determine nothing and yet it determines something and that something it doth determine and yet it dothe not determine it If we consider it as you haue sayde it howe would ye haue vs consider it master Stap. when your selfe so inconsiderately haue saide suche contradictions Besides this as repugnant as the rest before ye sayd his wordes imported onely that they might which is not to will a thing to be done but to permit or licence that a thing may be done or may not be done And héere ye playnly say he willeth that to be giuen to Cesar that is Cesars and to God that is Gods. But Christes willing a thing to be done is his commaundement that it be done and not a licence that may or may not
that reckens without his hoste must recken twice But a Gods name as master Stapleton cryeth let vs cheerefully proceede on We are almost at an ende of this first booke of his The. 25. Diuision AS the Bishop hitherto on the wordes of Saint Pauls Rom. 13. calling the Prince Gods minister hath by the fathers Chrysostome and S. Augustine and by these Ecclesiastical historiographers Eusebius Nicephorus about these two Emperours shewed sufficiently how farre this ministerie stretcheth and wherein it chiefly consisteth so concluding this for the other testimonie of S. Paule alleaged he sheweth the endes and boundes of the Princes gouernment not onely to stretch to the conseruation of ciuill peace outwarde tranquillity but also to the maintenance and preseruing of Gods true religion To the confirmation of this sentence of the Apostle he citeth Chrysost. coÌ„cluding hereon that these two parts and notes of a princes gouernmeÌ„t are so knit togither that the one cannot be without the other therfore both are necessary to be required in a prince And that thus the auncient Christian Princes did consider of their duties he citeth out of Cyrill the testimonies of the Emperours Theodosius and Ualentinian Master Stapletons aunswere to this chiefly standeth in thrée poyntes First he querelleth with the Bishop for calling these Emperors Christian Emperours Secondly he yeldeth to the Bishope allegation of Saint Paule and Chrysostome as rather for him than against him thereto trauayleth in bringing forth ensamples Thirdely to the testimonies of Ualentinian and Theodosius he replyeth with other testimonies of the sayde Emperours All the first part is friuolous and to no effect nor aunswering the argument of the Bishops conclusion which is this All Christian princes notable and godly doings that are necessarily belonging to their office are paterns for other Princes to beholde and do their dutie to their subiects by But these and such like Princes are by the ecclesiastical writers commended for their notable doings in the maintenance and furtherance of Christian religion as doings necessarily perteyning to their office Ergo they are paterns examples and glasses for other Christian Princes to beholde and to learne thereby to do their dutie to their subiects in the maintenance and furtherance of Christian Religion To this master Stap. sayth neuer a worde but falleth a rayling on the Bishop for calling this Emperour Christian Emperour And first in his sume he sweareth by God that he he will not feare the Bishops conclusion syth the antecedent was so naught And shall we nowe M. Horne sayth he your antecedent matter beeing so naught greatly feare the consequent and conclusion ye will hereof inferre Nay pardie Well sworne master Stapleton ye can not sweare by a greater But if one of your companie would do so much for me as to remember you but with a good phillip that your foreheade smarted withall ye woulde not thus lightly take the name of God in vaine but it was done in this your beginning ex abrupto and shall we c. to shewe your bolde manhoode Shall we feare say you the Bishops conclusion his antecedent being so naught nay perdie No in no wyse M. Stapl. feare it not but stande to it euen as you did to the other that is to say take your héeles and runne quite away from it And be it naught or be it good aunswere not a worde thereto But onely wrangle aboute some bye worde or other finding play with the Reader aboute other matters and thâ—…n euen as you aunswered the antecedent so shall ye shewe your selfe constant in aunswering the conclusion For what else is all your first part where if ye feare not the Bishops consequent ye should denie it and shew some reason thereof or distinguish the same or else ye graunt it but a bare shifting off to other matters as this bicause the Bishop called the Emperour on Nicephorus his commenmendation a Christian Emperour an example a spectacle a glasse for other as one that refourmed Religion to the purenesse thereof This say you in suche a personage as yee counterfeyâ—… can not bee but a deadlye and a mortall sinne Herevppon ye snatche occasion to fling at master Foxes bóoke of Martyrs once againe about M. Doctor VVesalian of whome ye say ye spake before Here againe ye come to your former Qu like the 〈◊〉 Pharisey despising the Bishop as one that is farre from the knowledge of Bishop White and Bishop Gardiner these are Reuerend fathers with you as for the bishop nowe is a verye poore sielie Clerke and howe mete to occupie such a roume ye leaue it to others discrete and vpright iudgement There is no doubt M. Stapleton but that ye meane some discrete and vpright iudges to iudge this matter of both their learnings ye shewe your selfe so vpright betwéene them But what shall those discrete men iudge of your vprightnesse and discretion in aunswering For what is anye of these things to the purpose although setting aside this your impudent outfacing what man it was well knowen what mightie great Clerkes the better of these twaine Bishop Gardiner and Bishop VVhite were either for law or for versifying either for a Sophister or a schoolemaister And yet in these pointes were they neither in primis secundis nor in â—…ertijs As for any déepe knowledge of Diuinitie or of ecclesiastical stories which had bene fitter for a Bishop I trow Iwis it was not so great but that a meaner man than the Bishop that now is might hasarde a comparison with theÌ„ But comparisons they say are odious I speake it not to the dispraise of their learning woulde God such as it was they had emploiedit better to the glory of God the giuer and the edifying of his Church in setting forth his Gospell as they ought to haue done For this is the chiefest thing in a bishop although the other are also necessarie and as ye say among other this the knowledge of ecclesiastical stories which ye vpbraide to the bishop as a verie poore sielie clarke in them But thus much your impudencie driueth me to saye that neither of your two Reuerend Fathers haue taken a quarter of the studious trauel in this point that the B. that now is hath done and hath shewed more fruite thereof than euer they did Scripture as they saye maketh mention of all thrée let your discrete and vpright men or any other searche and iudge who lyst But wherfore in conclusion is all this adoe forsooth the Bishop on Nicephorus wordes commendeth him for a Christian Emperour and sayth he was a spectacle and glasse for others and as one that reformed religion to the purenesse thereof this can not be a venial but a deadly and mortall sinne saith M. Stapleton Whosoeuer be the discrete iudge you are no mercifull iudge M. Stapl. there is no pardon with you but present death I see well I woulde at least ye were an vpright iudge to iudge vprightly of the matter Ye haue condemned