ouershot my selfe and if you can prooue it to me I shall gladly receiue it and will be redie to recant and cal backe all my wordes and aske mercie in like fourme as you haue prescribed but hitherto as I am persuaded and as my conscience beareth me witnesse I haue not in any point slandered you nor of malice spokeÌ„ any thing against you for if I did know any nerer way to saluatioÌ„ then y which our sauiour Christ hath taught in his Gospell I woulde with all gréedenesse imbrace it And if I can vnderstand that euer this your doctrin was taught publikly since christ our Lord his assention by any godly writer in Christs Church I will ceasse and subscribe vnto you otherwise blame me not though I continue in that minde which the Lorde in mercie by his Christ hath made manifest to me to my comforte The God of mercie and consolation giue you a right spirite to depend vpon the puritie of his worde written by the holy Ghoste and not to depend vpon the vncertainetie of man giuing testimonie to him selfe so shall both you and I bee brought to sée rightly into our weakenesse shall heare y ioyful voyce y Paule heard My grace is sufficient for thee For y Lords power loue is manifested made kno wen vnto the worlde through our weakenesse and all our righteousnesse is Sicut pannus menstrualis God in mercie giue vs all his grace that in séeking the true way that ledeth to life euerlasting we be not led into y by paths of errour but leade vs and guide vs O Lorde so shall we knowe thy ways aright imbrace our sauing health in Christ declared to all nations If it please you to reply I shall receiue it thankfully London the 12. of Februarie Your friend I. R. A Letter of the Familie to I. R. written by E. R. M. Rogers these are to signifie vntd you that I haue perused a booke wherof you are the authour In your preface you say you haue vsed this order to set downe the authors owne speach not adding or diminishing any thing with the name of the booke Chapter or folio I do wish that your word and deede had agreed therein I call to minde that I haue read many authours bookes within this 35. or 36. yeares and among them all I haue not found any writer that hath taken such an order as you haue done for who so euer will write to confute an Authour he should set downe the Authours owne wordes as they stande written in his bookes and so to confute them by the Scriptures orderly and not to take out here some and there some and of diuers sentences and part of diuers sentences to make one sentence You haue added and diminished in diuers places and to inlarge your booke withall you haue set downe the most part of the sentences in two places as y readers may perceiue if they do confer your booke with the Authours bookes wâ—y them with indifferencie I am fully persuaded that the sober discreet wise and godly learned do ne wil not allowe of it that any Authour should be so abused as you haue abused this Authour in wresting belying and peruerting his writings Salonton saith A false record wil make a lye A false witnesse shall not remaine vnpunished and hee that speaketh lyes shall not escape I pray God open the eyes of your heart that you may see your ignorance and repent You do ground one point of your matter vpon Adrian Gisling a man of credite as you say y he did read in a Duche booke intituled the Glasse of righteousnesse wherein the Authour doth certifie his Familie of Loue that they must passe foure most terrible castels full of combersome enimies before they come to the house of Loue the first is Iohn Caluine the second the Papistes the third Martine Luther the fourth the Anabaptistes howe good of credite so euer Adrian Gisling is of he hath not at any time read any such matter in any of that Authours bookes he might perhaps read of such matter in some other booke hauing that title I my self haue read ouer diuers of the bookes and also the booke called the Glasse of righteousnesse of that Authours writing that you take your occasion against and there is no such Castles written in any of his bookes therfore Adrian Gisling is therein vtterly deceiued and I do beleeue no lesse but those other thinges that you haue written vpon reporte against â— Author to make him odious vnto the people is as contrarie I suppose you should haue done well if you had not come in with a flourish to attempt battell and beginne a skirmish against those that haue no pleasure or delight in warre or battell but much rather doe desire peace vnitie It is not reckoned for a manly part that an armed souldier should take vp weapon and fight with a naked childe It is written Let not him that putteth on his harnesse boast him selfe as he that putteth it off If the little vnarmed childe Dauid doe come to battell with his sling and stones one of the stones may happen to hit Golias in the forhed be he neuer so well appointed for battell and trusteth in his owne strength But what you haue done you can not vndo it is too farre past your hands And where you call in doubt that the familie will carpe as you terme it at your booke and do offer if they do answere it a speedie replie will be performed I for my parte I giue GOD thankes am not ignoraunt of the Lande of strife and contention that ye walke in and as it appeareth ye haue a pleasure therein I haue wandered vppe and downe there ouerlong and consumed much time there about to my greate greefe and sorrowe for those that doe loue strife and contention would haue other like to them selues S. Paule saith The seruants of the Lord must not striue And Saint Iames saith If ye haue bitter enuying and strife in you hearts reioyce not neither be lyars against the trueth and then following where enuie and strife is there is vnstablenes all maner of euill workes In the Homilie for whitsunday the second part ye may read this sentence But to conclude and make an end ye shall briefly take this short lesson where so euer ye finde the spirit of arrogancie and pride the spirit of enuie hatred contention crueltie murther extortion witchcraft Necromancie c. assure your selues that there is the spirite of the diuell and not of GOD albeit they pretend outwardly to the worlde neuer so much holinesse I haue no desire pleasure nor delight to carpe at your booke nor to striue or contend with you or any one neyther is there any other who doe desire peace and vnitie that will haue any delight or pleasure in strife and contention but leaue euery one to the Lorde Salomon saith The sinne of the wicked is his owne snare Saint
THE DISplaying of an horrible secte of grosse and wicked Heretiques naming themselues the Family of Loue with the liues of their Authours and what doctrine they teach in corners Newly set foorth by I. R. Wherevnto is added certeine letters sent from the same Family mainteyning their opinions which Letters are aunswered by the same J. R. IMPRINTED AT London for George Bishop 1579. ¶ The Preface of the Authour to the Reader WHEN I began to write of this doctrine of the Familie of Loue I minded in deed to haue sent it to a friende of mine which is entered into that errour and so to haue made it as a priuate matter betweene vs But when I had shewed the same to certeine of my friendes to haue their iudgement in certeine pointes their importunate suite was that this small treatise might be published in print which request I was loth to grant for diuers causes The chiefe whereof was that Bookes whiche are set foorth vnto the eyes of all the world had need to be circumspectly and diligently examined before thei be made as á glasse for all men to looke vpon For when as there are many beholders there are also many fault finders And in this simple work there are many faultes through ignorance and want of skill committed which I coÌ„fesse not to be done of malice or negligence but in trueth my simple vnlearned capacitie could doe no better The faults are these The rough and harsh stile being rudely and without any good methode set downe because I want the help of those artes which comly aptly couch sentences together whereby the Reader might take the more delectatioÌ„ in reading and perusing of books The order shoud haue bene amended if time would haue suffred but since it is otherwise I beseech thee accept my good will. If any of the familie carpe at this booke because of the rudenesse thereof let them answer it and a reply will speedily be perfourmed wherin their expectation shal be satisfied I dout not by men of godly knowledge and learning In the meane time I wil declare the cause that made me more willing to satisfie my friendes request There are many diligent godly teachers whiche in places conuenient do inuey impugne the doctrine of y Family of Loue yet are not throughly acquainted therwith whereby many in the same family take occasion to exclame against them as slaunderers of their doctrine many also of Gods children hearing the Family of loue spoken against are desirous to know what opinions and doctrine they hold professe Therefore I thought it my dutie which I owe vnto Christes Church as a member thereof to vtter and make manifest vnto all persons what I know touching the Authours and doctrine of the same family And seeing that wee liue amongst so many enimies of Christs Gospell which obiect against vs varietie in opinions it is very requisite that euerie member in Christes Church put too his helping hand to cleanse and purge the Church from such errours and false doctrine as through the malice of Satan daily creepeth in For if we hearing Christe Iesus his death and passion which is our only comfort blemished and darkned by the subtile fetches and persuasions of erronious and wicked men possessed with fantasticall spirites shall not be moued with zeale howe appeareth any loue of God or Christ Iesus in vs or where is become the fruites that should shew a iustifying faith Many that are at case liue securely thinke that this errour will of it selfe vanish decay without stir or gainsaying which saying bewraieth too much their want of y true feare loue of god For if we shall daily heare but our friend euill spoken of and bee still and silent â—hereat what loue or friendship appeareth in vs How much more ought we to bee zealously affected when the glorie of our GOD and the office of Christe Iesus our Lord shal be shadowed and impaired wee sleeping securely without touch or motioÌ„ of true zeale or loue And if we looke into the daily increase of this errour we shall then behold our slouth negligence For in many shires of this our countrie there are meetings conuenticles of this familie of loue and into what number they are grown my heart reweth to speake that which one of the same societie did auouch to me for trueth Therfore it is time to withstand their impious opinions and euerie one according to his charge and office in the Church of Christ to purge and cleanse the same from the dregges and blasphemies of H. N. and his familie And although many errours much false doctrine is taught in the family more then is here expressed which to touch al would require a longer discouerie and a more learned author yet I haue set down for a tast or shew some of their doctrine that the children of God may be armed afore hande and take heede of such impious blasphemies as H. N. teacheth Many Bokes are abrode which I haue not seene and many I haue seene which I could not haue the vse off to reade For except one will be pliant to their doctrine and shew good will thereto he shal hardly get any of their bookes no nor they will not conferre nor talke of any points of their doctrine with any except it be to such as they finde inclined and as they tearme it willingly minded thereto And here I protest that what my pen shall vtter either touching the person of H. N. or his doctrine I malice him not nor his familie I rather pittie theÌ„ their case that so many simple people are by his doctrine seduced and deceiued neither will I auouch any thing which I haue not suffient warrant to proue As touching his person and behauiour I haue the testimonie of diuers ancient persons of good credite of the Dutch church who haue bene acquainted with y same H. N. and haue dwelt together in one citie and in one streete being neere neighbours familiar friendes who haue declared and testified the certeintie of his behauiour demeanour And touching his doctrine I haue vsed this order to set downe the authours owne speech not adding or diminishing any thing with the name of the Book Chapter or follio And whereas I haue directed much speech vnto the Familie the cause is this I haue ben familiar with some of them of long time haue had large discourses and conference with many of theÌ„ therfore if my simple speech vttred by pen may do any of them good I haue that I desire And this hath bene an other cause why more willingly I condescended vnto my friendes request And because H. N. and his family haue protested that the trueth hath no where beene taught in the worlde since the Apostles time but now by the family how vaine this their assertion is in it self appeareth For if truth hath ben hid and buried this 1500. yeares where is become Christes promise
diuision increased a worse heresie then before so that the sonnes of the Diuell gate names â–ª as Phariseis Saduceis Esseis Basilides Cerdonistes Valentianistes Marcionistes Appelles Montanus Sabellius Manes Arius Donatus Macedonius Eunomius Pelagius Eutiches which ingeÌ„dered the Pope and Papistes when â—esus Christ his Church was banishâ—â— by the tyrannie of the great murders from Nero to Domitianus and other through persecution After which time yet to vexe the Church a new came in Menandrians Cherinthus Ebionites Nicholaites Saturninus Taâ—â—anus Messaliani Nâ—scoâ—ians Anabaptistes Libertines aâ—d diuers others whose nature not vnlike to Turdus Syluestris by whose â—yling on the Okâ— or fruite trees the Misâ—le groweth so of the doung of these silthie sâ—â—â—es haue proceeded a nâ—wâ— Mergus a cormorant foule the familie of loue an hereticall sect that hath to bring forth a new puritie in religion supped vp the moste part of former errours which except it plâ—ase the Almightie God in the mercies of his Christe our Lorde and Sauiour the sufferance thereof will giue occasion to a newe persecution It behâ—ueth therefore all reuereâ—d Elders Bishoppes and Preachers to seeke at the handes of our souereigne authoritie to redresse the same or else will assuredly followe the like plâ—gue on vs as was at Munster in Germanie by Dauid George Iohn a Leede Kâ—ipper Dolling and others the seede whereof is H. N. Henrie Nicholas nowe of Colone His disciple here in England Christopher Vittel lotner and many moe whom God turn from this and al other errours if it be his wil or else hasten their ouerthrowe from poysoning the simple as yet to be accounted traitours to God hipocrites to the Prince and false Prophetes in seducing the people Thus gentle Reader I haue presumed to enter into this authours booke these fewe wordes to none other ende then to incourage thee to accept his paines that seeketh by his studie and laborious toile thine ease in bringing to lighte that whiche might else haue longer bene hid to the great hurt of this common wealth And now being brought to light giue God the praise to whom he honour and glorie for euer Amen Stephan Bateman professour of diuinitie The life of Dauid George testified by the Magistrates of Basil which was the founder of the heresie of H. N. and the Familie of loue DAVID GEORGE borne in Delphe a towne of Holland taught his errours in the lowe countrie where he dwelled fourtie yeares and fearing to bée espied by the Magistrates departed out of his countrie Anno. 1544. and iournied towards Basil in Zuitzerland with his familie and kinsfolke named himselfe Iohn of bridges When he was come to Basil he made his complaint to diuers of the Magistrats that he was banished out of his natiue countrie for the word of God and was faine to flée from place to place They tooke compassion of him and made petition vnto the Lordes of the towne for him that it would please them to take him and his for poore subiects and inhabiters of their citie They receiued this answere that they would not denie their citie to any honest stranger being of a good true religion His graue yeares sober speach and modest behauiour with his ancient and comely apparell did not a little preuaile that his petition tooke place so that he and al his companie were made frée men of Basil was in good reputation among the people He was liberall in giuing of almes and full of hospitalitie he maried his daughters very worshipfully he was serued in plate and spent liberally for his scholers in the lowe countries made collections for him so that he wanted nothing Eleuen yeres he dwelt in Basil and it was not espied what doctrine he taught Then he built two houses the one for pleasure in a garden the other in the towne one of the houses was by lightening and thunder consumed with fire also in his own dwelling house one loft fel downe and did much harme al these were warnings of Gods displeasure In processe of time one that married his daughter beganne to mistrust his doctrine and when Dauid George vnderstoode thereof he sent for his sonne in lawe and with many persuasions endeuoured to confirme his sonne to beleeue that he was that right Dauid that was sent from God and should restore againe the kingdome of Israel and build the tabernacle of Iacob in the latter dayes whereunto his sonne answered that the restoring of the kingdome of Israel and al other prophesies of Dauid was fulfilled by Christe With which answere Dauid George was veriâ— angrie notwithstanding with gentle wordes he beganne againe to persuade him y if any thing were too high in his bookes that he could not vnderstand he should commit it vnto God from whom such high wisedome did come He writ diuers bookes especially â—â—â— called The wonder booke wherein he taught his damnable errours He dyed the 16. of August 1556. and was buried in the parish Church of S. Leonardes Many of his disciples tooke great thought after he was dead for that he promised vnto them that he should not die but if he did he would rise again within thrée yeares and fulfil all his former promises Diuerse of his disciples and schollers forsooke his heresies after his death and confessed themselues deceiued and acknowledged Dauid George to be a very blasphemer of our sauiour Christ. But certaine would not but conueyed them selues away and infected others The Magistrates of Basil when they vnderstoode of his doctrine and manners they called before them all such as they suspected to holde of Dauid George and searched their houses founde the bookes and letters which he had written and when the Lordes of Basil had all they caused them to recant solemnely in the chiefe Church all such articles as Dauid George had taught them They founde also in Dauid Georges house a picture of Dauid Georges person veriâ— curiously cunningly couÌ„terfet which together with the carcase of Dauid George his bookes letters c. were burned in the Market place his goodes and landes seised to the vse of the town All the rest that were knowne to holâ—e that errour did willingly abiure the same and so were receiued as members of Christes Church Yet did not his heresies cease for diuerse were in Holland that stifly did maintain Dauid Georges heresies and peruerted many among which number was Henrie Nicholas thought to bee chiefe who after the death of Dauid George tooke vpon him to mainteine the same doctrine not in the name of Dauid but in his owne name as a Prophet sent to rebuke the world of sin and iniquitie hath written many books in the Dutch tong in a rude stile which many of his schollers fellowes haue translated into diuers languages his Euangelium Râ—gni is in Latin many also are in a Dutch letter in English translated as is supposed by Christopher Vittell a ioyner dwelling somtime in Southwark who hath by his trudging about
liue vnder the obedience of any magistrate be he neuer so wicked or vngodly the Turke the Pope or whosoeuer 5 Item that they allowe a kinde of shrifte worse then Popish For where the Pope requireth but confession of the act coÌ„mitted they will haue the thoughtes manifested and what our nature and inclination draweth vs vnto 6 Item they holde that the lawe of God is possible to be kept of euerie man that will indeuour himselfe thereto 7 Item that their authour H. N. is the true prophet of God sent to blowe the last trumpe of doctrine which shall be published vpon earth he only knoweth the true sence of the holie scripture 8 Item that his bookes are of equall authoritie with the holie scripture and are written with the same spirite 9 Item all is false and lyes whatsoeuer is taught or preached by any other then their Illuminate Elders in the Familie 10 Item they commend the Pope and Cardinals and allowe the Masse other their ceremonies The Bookes of H. N. which I haue seene 1 IN primis the first Epistle of H. N. 2 Item the first and second exhortation of H. N. 3 Item a diologue betweene the father and the sonne 4 Item the prophesie â—â— the spirite of loue 5 Item the published peace vppon earth 6 Item the declaration of the masse 7 Item their Euangelium Regni 8 Item the true and spirituall Tabernacle 9 Item the new and heauenly Ierusalem 10 Item a confession of their faith newly made 11 Item sundrie Epistles of H. N. Bookes which I heare of and haue not seene 1 ITem two bookes intituled the glasse of righteousnesse 2 Item a Booke called the holy Lamb. The displaying of the Familie of Loue. WHen I considered the duetie of a Christian to consist in the true profession of Christ Iesus his name diligently to walke in the pathes and wayes manifested in his word and to séeke to beautifie and inrich that beloued spouse the Church of Christ sanctified by his bloude I could not holde backe my penne to publish such matter as I sée daily to blemishe that beloued bride I meane the Church of Christ and to haue crept in by the subtiltie of Sathan our professed enimy Hauing therefore gathered diuers notes of that cankered error of H. N. taken out of his bookes which I haue to shewe I had thought to haue stayed my hande from further frauell but being vrged by diuers of Gods children to manifest this my labour to the end that some nouices of that errour might if it were possible be stayed from further plunging themselues into that gulfe of impietie How the wicked take occasion by these like errours to speake euil of Christs Church the eares of many godly doe heare Especially the Papists who speak and write â–ª and nothing is heard more common in their mouthes then these tearms Ye are at variaunce amongst your selues no vnitie of doctrine is obserued ye are of diuers opinions and sectes But how vntruely they impute these maters vnto the church of Christ to euerie member of the same Church it is euident For if we consider the wisedome of God in gouerning his we shal perceiue that in all ages when Christes Church did most flourish in perfectioÌ„ then was errour and heresies moste rife as may wel appéere euen in the Apostles times by the Nicolaitans Ebionites Cerinthus and others How busily did the fathers in the primitiue Church withstand such heresies as crept in euen in that happie time Tertullianus the Valentinians Augustine the Donatistes and Athanasâ—â—us the Arrians with infinit mâ— as by reading the Ecclesiasticall histories doeth well appeare Wherein what trauell hath béene taken what counsels called what Books written it were a wonder to behold But when corruption began by litle and litle to spread her selfe and got the face of a Church O how were dissentions appeased no varietie séemed to be where as in déede nothing was taught nor published but dreams deuises of men who leauing the certein and knowen wayes of y Lord reuealed in his word betoke theÌ„selues to depend vpoÌ„ the doctrines of men But if we descend into these last times wherein we liue and marke the wisedome of God in gouerning his Churche how he hath manifested his sonne Christ Iesus with an vncouered face to the great comfort of his children how the doting dreams of men are vanished how nothing but Christ Iesus is lifted vp with prayses as the immediate and only cause of our saluation how the true vse of workes is placed not as any cause but as the fruites of our instification And yet to sée how busily sathan enuying the prosperitie of Christes spouse endeuoureth daily in his meÌ„bers to trouble and disquiet this peaceable Sion by raysing vp diuers strange and monstrous heresies as the Anabaptistes the Free will men the Arrians the Pelagians and the Familie of Loue with many others which heresies the Diuell more bufily soweth nowe to disquiet the Churche then heretofore in y time of ignorance when he lulled the most part of y world in errours and dreames of men And séeing that euerie errour doeth seeke his cloake defence by the holie scripture yet we haue great cause to reioyce that onely by the scripture they are all put to silence and their heresies made manifest to all men as by the learned treatises of many graue men in this our age doeth manifestly appeare Of this last errour of H. N. the cheefe piller and vpholder of these errours of the Familie of Loue whereof by the Lordes assistance I minde to leaue behinde me such notes and bréefes â–ª as of certeintie I haue learned bothe of the person and also of his doctrine no man hitherto that I can learne hath endeuoured to confute them in writing Whose Bookes as they haue come to my hande I haue with diligence perused and by much conference with diuers of that Familie learned the doctrine which they followe And whereas they haue béene charged with diuers articles before the highe commissioners yet by no argument that I can learne doe I finde that they holde all the errours conteined in the same Notwithstanding so many as either by the doctrine of Henrie Nicholas or by conference I haue learned I haue set downe to the ende that some good man might be incouraged to confute so impious an authour and such horrible errours and perfourme in some learned worke that whiche my want and capacitie is not able to supply neither would I haue ventured to committe to writing suche rude and ignorant labour the matter béeing in déede â—etter then the handling but in my opinion it is better to haue course bread then none at all And because diuerse with whome I am familiarly acquainted are fallen into this errour of Henrie Nicholas I haue the rather for their sakes bent my studie to doe them good if it be possible And if these simple notes may haue that successe that I wishe I trust it
will stay some of GODS children from running headlong into that bewitched snare And also suche matter as by disputation and conference with some of the same familie I haue boulted out I will declare For in déede the Authour in his Bookes doeth not deale so plainely as one being ledde by the spirite of GOD whereof he boasteth but verie subtilely and darkely and so as the iudgement of many godly and learned men to whom I haue deliuered his Bookes vppon the reading of the same haue testified that there is no matter in the Authour that may bée drawen into argument but that it séemeth to be as a riddle or darke speeche and therefore more intricate to be followed And as his tearmes and phrases are geyson and vnwoonted so they doe dasell the simple with an admiration of a prudent spirite to be in the Authour which of meane wits can neither be comprehended nor vnderstoode And when the Kabbynes of that Family whome they tearme Illuminate Elders haue béene pressed by me and others to giue a reason why the Authour hath so cunningly and subtilely dealt not expressing his minde in plaine tearmes and spéeche the best answere that hath béene made is that the Authour hath writen in the Dutch tongue which wanteth his grace and eloquence béeing turned into our rude Englishe But if I might be bolde to replye without offence his rude stile béeing written in the Dutch tongue is rather beautified by translation then impayred for I haue some copyes in Dutche some in Latin and some in English wherein the Authors barbarous stile and his ignoraunce is verie muche manifested although some of his schollers haue put too their helping handes to garnishe this their barbarous â–ª Author especially the booke intituled Euangelium Regni which is translated into Latin exactly I would to GOD the matter did answere the goodnesse of the tongue And if I should diligently séeke out of what forge the Authour Henrie Nicholas hath fyled his heresies I am certeinly persuaded that one Dauid George was the founder hatcher and bréeder of all this mischiefe and Henrie Nicholas but a disciple or scoller of the same Dauid What this Dauid was you may perceiue by that which is set downe before whose errours also for a tast I will set downe in part as they are collected by the gouernour of the vniuersitie of Basill that all men may sée that an euil authour hath bred a worse scholer And thereby shall be perceiued that Dauid George his opinions differ nothing from H. N. but are so like in wicked boasting that they haue the spirit of God that a man may thereby say an euill father hath begotten a worse sonne Articles taken out of Dauid George AL doctrine taught by Moyses the Prophetes and Christe himselfe are not sufficient to saluation but onely to keepe the people in good order till the comming of me Dauid George but my doctrine is able to saue all those that put their trust therin 2 Dauid George doth further say that he is the right Mesâ—ias the beloued sonne of the Father not borne of the fleshe but of the holy Ghost and when Christ was dead according to the flesh the spirite of Christe was kept at the fathers appointment vntill the comming of Dauid George and giuen to him 3 He saith that he will set vp the true house of Dauid the children of Leâ—â—â— and he will raise the tabernacle of God through the spirite of Christe not by the crosse and suffering but â–ª through meâ—knesse and loue 4 He saith that whosoeuer speaketh against his doctrine shall neuer bee forgiuen neither in this worlde nor in the world to come These I haue set downe as the doctrine of Dauid George founde in his books And bicause their doctrin may be better viewed and séene how they agrée in wicked diuelish phantasies of their own deuice set on by the father of lies our ancient enimie to be a stumbling blocke vnto the simple and to darken and blemish the ioyful procéeding of the glorious Gospell of Christ Iesus which almightie God hath in mercy reuealed to nations kingdomes most plentifully mauger the malice of the diuell and all his children I haue therefore here placed certaine sayinges of H. N. which are word for worde taken out of his bookes that the diligent reader may sée how in wicked boasting they agrée what vile doctrine they publish The errours of H. N. taken out of his owne bookes translated into English. 1 For the being of God or essence gaue foorth his sounde and voyce and spake vnto me H. N. through his spirite of loue all these wordes he sayde Speaking against the Churche he saith 2 For that cause if thou now account not thy selfe for an whore but esteemest thee for the faythfull espoused wise of Christe my iealous conceiuing cannot stande otherwise towardes thee but that thou art a presumptuous whore whiche dissemblest and playest the hypocrite with Christe and couertly committest whoredome and neuerthelesse wilt bee iudged as a faythfull espoused wife of Christe So Shalt thou presenly be constrained to drinke the bitter cursed water of my iealousie 3 All that God hath spoken through his holie Prophetes and what is written of Christ should also in vs and with vs become fulfilled to the honor and glorie of God and to our ioy Out of a Dialogue betweene the father and the sonne Chap. 17. the son concludeth with these wordes SEeing nowe that I my Father haue found out in deede that our Lord the moste highest hath reuealed his mercie seate the possession of his most excellent Maiestie and heauenly riches in thee and with the same beeing of the perfect Godhead made a godly dwelling with thee so were it meete that all the generations of the â—arth submit them selues vnder the same mercie seate and Godly Maiestie and assemble them therevnto Here maiest thou sée these two men boasting theÌ„ selues in their presumption and pride of minde to haue the spirit of God the one saying that the same spirit which was in Christ Iesus when hee liued on earth is nowe in Dauid George which is horible blasphemieâ— and abaseth Moyses the Prophets and Christe him selfe in whose doctrine the certaintie of our faith is firmely fixed against which the gates of hell shal not preuaile promiseth to bring the house of Dauid and the children of Leuie into great prosperitie and to set â–ª them vp not with painful suffring as Christ our Lord in him self hath perfourmed left to vs his children example to follow his steppes in suffering miserie that we might reigne with him in glory but he promiseth to bring his disciples into that glory through méeknesse and loue which in deede is the pleasanter way to be followed if we consider fleshe and bloud H. N. he following his father in like blasphemie auoucheth that he hath talked with God not by inspiration or reuelation but by giuing foorth his sound voyce Then placeth himselfe in Christes
stead and office in iudging the children of God saying My iealous conceiuing can not stande otherwise towards thee but that thou art a presumptuous whore and shalt be constrained to drinke the bitter cursed water of my ielousie If these be not Luciferian voyces I am much deceiued then he saith that what the Prophetes Christ haue written that must be fulfilled in him and with him and that all the generations of the earth must submit them selues vnto the mercy seat and godly maiestie which is in him Thus I suppose my coniecture standeth firme where I saide that Dauid George was the hatcher of this heresie and layde the egge but H. N. brought foorth the chickens How wel they agrée in vaunting them selues doth well appeare and that the sonne is farre worse then the father Surely I could well haue spared my penne in writing this and other their wicked opinions with their patrones haue buried it in silence had it not the zeale of the Lordes house carried me so farre that I could not stay vntill I had published suche matter as came to my handes whereby I sawe the glory of Christ Iesus to be so defaced séeing these wicked impes to place them selues so high in the mindes of many simple people here in England it pitieth me to sée them so snared in this bewitched errour A man would thinke that these things are so vaine absurd that none y were in their right wits would once bend their mindes to imbrace the same In déed if I did not know many of theÌ„ and am truely certified by some of the same fellowship that there are in Engand at the least 1000. in diuers partes of this realme which do hold this vain monstruous opinion of H. N. I would not haue traueled any further But eueÌ„ for their sakes who in déede are simply deceiued and not maliciously holde any thing doe I write and if this my labour may by the Lords will conuert any of that fellowship and bring them into the plaine and manifest way whiche Christ Iesus hath left in his word I haue my expected desire There is no one thing in my opinion that hath so much preuailed with this simple sorte which are members and professours of y Familie of Loue as a certeine shew outwarde face of a holy conuersation which some of their illuminate Elders do séeme to vse Wherein they followe the steppes of the Pelagians and Papists directly whose doctrine of works howe by them we are in the fauour of God and accepted doth in diuers treatises manifestly appeare destroying the worke wrought by Christe our Lorde â–ª by whose bloud we are cleansed and by whose stripes we are healed without this faith in Christ all our works be they neuer so godly are méere impietie If he woorke in vs the will and the déede what haue we to boast of workes If we haue nothing which we haue not receiued what fauor with God doth our works purchase If euerlasting life be the frée gift of God what haue our workes to do in that matter of our saluatioÌ„ It standeth not vpon so â—ickle a point as the vncertaintie of our workes but in suche errours they wander which leaue the wholesome precepts of the holy Ghoste reuealed by the scripture and imbrace the doctrins of men It séemeth that the simple truth which by the Scriptures we be taught and the promises of Christe our Lorde made vnto vs doeth not content their curious heads but vainly they wander in euery vncerteine way estéeming H. N. and his sayings expressed in his book to be of no lesse value and credite then the sacred Scripture written for our comforte not as the workes of men but by the finger of GOD euen the holy Ghoste And whereas H. N. doeth boast him self y he can not erre he saith that with the same lying spirite that is in the Pope affirming the selfe same thing As for the Pope it is manifest ynough without proofe But bycause some may thinke that I auouch that of H. N. that is not to be proued I will set downe his wordes as they are written in his booke intituled The prophesie of the spirit of Loue the 13. chapter where you shall perceiue y H. N. doth couple him self with Moses with y Prophets with Christ and his Apostles very presumptuously affirming that he him selfe can no more erre then they His wordes be these H. N. Chap. 13. verse Moyses the Prophetes Christe and his Apostles and his Minister H. N. they iudge to erre or misse the right rather then acknowledge themselues in their imagination to be ignorant and lying In my opinion H. N. in these words doth somewhat ouermatch the Pope for the Pope doth acknowledge that as he is a man he may erre but as he is Christes vicar or deputie vpon earth he can not erre but H. N. without any distinction doth affirme that he can no more erre then Christe or his Apostles And in déede his bookes are thought amongest his disciples to be of equall authoritie with the scripture and they do affirme that they are written with the same spirit But if their bare affirmation may stand for good proofe then indéed it is somwhat they say but the holy ghost hath taught vs another lesson saying beléeue not euery spirite but trie the spirite whether he be of god And that we may rightly discern this H. N. other wise called Henrie Nicholas which taketh vpon him to be that great prophet sent to rebuke the world of sinne hath written his bookes intituling one The prophesie of the spirite of Loue wherin he prophesieth of many thinges to happen to the Church of GOD before this time but God be thanked his wordes are no warrants he is proued a false prophet and since our Sauiour Christe published vnto the world y glad tidings of his glorious gospel to our great comfort the office of prophesying or foretelling of thinges to come hath ceased in Christes Church Many haue risen and taken vpon them to prophesie and foretell thinges to come â–ª but they haue ben counted false prophets euen as H. N. is Christ our Lord did forewarne vs that in the latter times such false prophetes should rise and false Christes and such daungerous dayes that if it were possible the very Elect should be deceiued Blessed be the Lorde our God which by the light he hath giuen his children in the holy scripture hath so instruct vs that the very childreÌ„ babes are able to confute these false techers false prophets And least the Papistes should imagine that this H. N. should be a professor of the Gospell I will declare manifest causes to proue that he is a right chickeÌ„ of the Church of Rome and harboured many yeares by Granuella a Cardinal Howe he extolleth the Pope to be that great Priest of the West howe he openeth the misteries of the Masse in a book intituled A declaration of the masse
Howe he commendeth euery trifling toye in the Masse by the booke may at large appeare Howe he allowed confession worse then auricular may appear by diuers his owne words which least any should carpe at me I wil set down Howe he agréeth with the Papistes in extolling workes as efficient causes of our saluation I haue before toucheâ— Al which do proue that he is no professour but an enimie to the Gospell of Christe our Lorde H. N. in the first exhortation Chapter 13. Diuision 12. IT is expedient that they shoulde make manifest their whole hart with all their counsels mindes willes and thoughtes together with all their doings dealings and exercises naked and bare before the eldest in the Familie of Loue and not to couer or hide any thing be it what it is before him what their inclination nature draweth them vnto By this it doth appeare that nothing must be kept vntolde or vnreuealed to the eldest Elder in euery their seuerall conuenticles for else it can not be vnderstoode that one man in one countrie shoulde heare all the rest particularly And here they step one foote before the Papistes in my opinion For where the Pope requireth but a confession of the act committed H. N. requireth a declaration of the thought and what the inclination of our nature draweth vs vnto And yet in moe speciall pointes they agrée with the Papistes namely in the possibilitie of the Law to be kept of euery one that will séeke to performe the same And wheras I shewed before that H. N. and the Pope doe both boaste that they can not erre I thinke it not amisse to let H. N. tel his owne tale touching this matter that his scholers may behold that I slaunder him not neither do make his doctrine worse then it is In the first exhortation Chapter 13. Diuision 11. Fol. 31. They ought to beware that they distrust not the eldest in the familie of Loue nor suspect any maner of euil or vnwisdome by him nor yet in any wise persuade them selues that the exercises documents and instructions which are taught or set foorth before them by the father of the Familie of Loue or oldest Elder are too sleight too childish or too vnwise for them to follow after or to obey but with perfect heartes humbly and singly minded as good willing children to receiue the same instructions proceeding out of the wisdome and counsel of the eldest and to stand euen so submitted till they come vnto the manly oldnesse in the Loue. Here is shewed that none must suspect the oldest Elder touching any false Doctrine that he might vtter â–ª nor to thinke any vnwisdome to be in him in which affirmation howe arrogantly doth he challenge that vnto him which is only due to Christ our Lord and to the holy scripture written by the spirite of god And although he bost that he hath the spirite of God and that he is Godded with God God in him Hominified or made man yet are not wée to beléeue suche lying spirites whiche vtter such absurd and blasphemous doctrine contrarie to the Scriptures of god And bycause I am entered into that high point of Diuinitie which amongst the Familie is counted a misterie I thinke it not impertinent to set before the eyes of all the professours of H. N. and his doctrine what the meaning of those termes are to be Godded with God for as they be straunge vnwoonted and vnaccustomed speaches so the doctrine taught in the same is more strange and absurd It were conuenient that we that professe Christe should be content with such phrases as the holy Ghoste doth vtter in the sacred Scriptures and not to séeke curiously strange termes which are not in the holy historie nor consequently can not be gathered out of the same of which number this is one to be Godded with God and vngodded with man the meaning of all such tearmes is this as it is taught by H. N. and imbraced of the Familie They holde as a principle in the schoole that after regeneration we sinn not fortifying this their assertion with this place of the Euangelist S. Iohn He that is borne of God sinneth not hee that committeth sinne is a seruaunt of sinne Againe God heareth not sinners All which places are very truely saide and alledged but to a wrong purpose for the places do not proue that the regenerate man sinneth not but sheweth y sins are not imputed to a regenerate man to condemnation and death He that is borne of God or regenerate sinneth not That is to his distruction euerlastingly The Scriptures do teach vs to distinguish sinnes in this sort to commit sinne is one thing but to abide in sinne or to dwell in sinne or sinne to haue dominioÌ„ in vs as S. Paul saith Let not sinne reigne in your mortall bodies and in the epistle to the Romanes Commit not wickednesse with greedinesse is another thing The last perteineth not to the elect of God For as the children of God do daily fall thorough frailtie and humane imperfections so they are daily renued by the spirite of God which driueth them to repentaunce But with the wicked the case is otherwise For they sitte downe in the seate of the scornefull they committe wickednesse with gréedines saying tush God séeth vs not such sinners God heareth not and such be seruantes vnto sinne Now in the Familie it is otherwise taught and otherwise beléeued For they affirme that after we be regenerated which they terme The vpright freedom we actually sin not neither in thought nor déed And y we may heare the Authour H. N. vtter his own spéech I will set downe what he writeth touching this matter In the Dialogue deuision 26. follio 40. The true freedom is this that the man in his heart minde and spirite be wholy released purged and purified from all wicked nature and sinne whiche hath raigned ouer him and that there dwel liue nor rule any other thing in him namely in all his spirites thoughts mind and soule but alone the true Godhead with the louely beeing of the vpright loue and wholy to be replenished with all the vertues of God and that there â—â—owe nothing else in him but spirituall and heauenly waters Hereby it may appeare what the Authour H. N. thinketh touching regeneration whiche they call The vpright Freedome And as I haue conferred with diuers of the same familie to vnderstand these mysteries which in the end with much a do I haue found out to be y after we be regenerat we sinn not And when I haue required somewhat out of y holie scripture to proue this in the end I haue receiued this for answer God doth promise to dwell with the man that is of a lowly mind humble heart Also ye are the Temples of the holie Ghost And againe the father and I wil make our habitation in man Nowe where Christ dwelleth there also is the father and the holie Ghost where or in
say but at aduenture of the things which you neueÌ„r heard ne sawe I would you had played an honest mans part and had vsed but equall weight and measure not haue contrarie to your promise where you said you wil alledge the Authors words and neither adde ne diminish taken here three or foure linâ—s and then passe ouer tenne or twelue and then againe take two lines and againe passe ouer sixe lines take halfe a line c. and so make a sentence thereof Thus is your doings found out of so many as haue coÌ„pared your allegations with the bookes of the Authour Notwithstanding all this you protest that you are voyde of malice in your vntrue booke seeming rather to pitie the poore seduced people then otherwise intending enuie You promise likewise to put downe nothing wherof you haue not sufficient warrant by certaine in the Duche Church but sure I am not of Christes Church for as much as they exercise not their moutheâ— with Iyes but you haue heard so and therefore it is so men of good credite say so I had rather heare an honest poore mans report truly spoken then a riche credible man 's that is a lyar and it is well knowne to some of the Duche Church that your credible men are lyars yet can you be content to fauour their reportes And as touching the cyting of H. N. his owne words without adding or diminishing I am ashamed of your disorderly dealings therein that shall so appeare in the aunswere to the booke as ye shal be proued therein as in y rest a falsister of both The speach which you pretend to haue had with many of the company I dare affirme it to be a great vntruth is but a visard as you haue saide of them to couer your malice withall I would shame would let you tell the truth then should you say as it is that your mate E. L. one of your own familie hath prompt you forward in these matters especially against Christopher Vitall a man whose honest life and conuersation you were neuer able to come nearâ— nor shall vnlesse you mend your wordes deedes weightes measures and waxes But will you see one notable matter which you haue gathered out of this Authors wordes more that is The truth hath not bene taught in the world since the Apostles time but nowe by the Familie the Scripture affirmeth that Christ the onely trueth hath saide My kingdome is noâ— of this world and howe can the trueth be taught where the kingdome is not for it hath bene euer hid from the worlde and her wise but yet alwayes manifested amongst the outseuered ones from this world And euen as the enimies of the same trueth haue alwayes martyred Gods holye ones euen so nowe woulde suche worldlings as you are doe had you power thereto And this I assure you that the very same doctrine which those Martyres haue taught the same doth H. N. teach but you say truth seeketh no corners see your appliment herein Christe commandeth his disciples saying When they persecute you in one citie flee vnto an other we read that Christe also many times went from place to place to auoyde such your forefathers the Scribes and Pharisees who sought his life And I pray you did not Iacob flee from his brother Esau Noe from the whole worlde Lot from the Sodomites Elias from all men Dauid from Saule with infinite more examples Then howe doe you approue your matter It can belike be no truth except you allowe it to be true a sound consequent Likewise you say vntruely citing the wordes that the Illuminate Elders can not erre nor sin nor dare before the simple ones in Christes Churche approue their Authours doctrine you haue I am sure good warrant to seuer the Illuminate Elders in the godly wisedome and holy vnderstanding out of the Church of Christ. But I haue better to proue that you are not thereof You disallowe others of bosting bicause you might boast alone is the suffering with Christ to rayle vpon his true meÌ„bers or else in patieÌ„ce to take vp our crosse and so suffer till by his suffering in vs we be deliuered iustified but I dare say you vnderstand me not now from sinne death diuill and hell but your wordes are no slaunders as you thinke else woulde you season them with truth for very shame For were it permitted that companie with indifferencie to auouch the trueth of their cause as it is permitted you and your companie slaunderously to blaspheme you shoulde then bee shewed in your right colours Ye say also that their Rabies or Elders haue recanted Arianisme at Paules crosse as well might you be charged with other matter c. But your obiection is false witnesse my Lorde of Canterburie that nowe is and yet more were to be saide but the companie hopeth your conuertioÌ„ although at this present your brethren in Christ for their good faithes cause they haue in your licentious doctrine of predestination and free election fill all the prisons almost in England but what reason haue I to charge you therewith but forsooth to put you in minde that you looke to your selfe and yours before you reproue others which mee thinketh is but reason You giue a glaunce also at the greatest house in this realme which you wish were cleare of such errours but put vp your bolt I aduise you whether that house hath auctoritie to ouerlooke you and your adherents that may you knowe hereafter Moreouer you say you could if you listed to be a blab tell out many discentions among them who yet you confesse will not in their best thinges make you or any other acquainted much lesse in things against them selues but it is true like the rest all this is but to make your speaches wonderfull and your modestie greater then it is You forget thereby many Protestants I thinke excelling you in vnderstanding in Rome Spaine Italie and other places vnder the Bishop of Romes inquisitioÌ„ which holde it good pollicie to defend them selues their consciences in keeping them from such Tyranny Will you not allowe to others as you gladly challeÌ„ge to your self â–ª then we must say you are vnequall in your doings But wil you see the most egregious vntrueth that can be spoken by this newe shamelesse writer He alledgeth Iohn Leydon and Snypper Dolling at Munster in Westfalia which were duely punished for Anabaptisme by the gouernours and Lordes of that time and place as appeareth by many writers as Iohn Sleydon and others And because these men were Hollanders and as he affirmeth schollers of Dauid George therefore H. N. must be belike by that reason one of that confederatie For although many learned writers do affirme their matter to be Anabaptisme yet this man will haue it the Familie of Loue. Fulwell doe you open your malice herein as in the rest with your forefathers who saide that Christ had the diuell and was a wine bibber a companion of
the loue of God and Christ farre be that from me it is selfe loue that I discommende in your author and in you all of this family For the loue of God is manifested to vs by Christ our Lorde which is our onely comfort So God loued the worlde c. You loue your authour so wel that this loue of God little appeareth 2 Could any man you say rew the prosperitie of the householde of God except he were of the diuell no verelye If you were of Christs householde we as fellowes woulde imbrace you but straungers from that household ye are and as straungers lurke in corners 3 My foundation you say is against H. N. whom I neuer knewe nor vnderstode off True it is touching his person but by his doctrine he is not vnknowne to me whose bookes I haue to shewe 4 You say as Christ in the reuelation is shadowed by two caracters A. and O. so none can knowe his name except he ouercome in the spirite therefore we must be scilent hereafter for H. N. is not the signification of any mans name This is a great mistery in déede for if H. N. be not a man then haue I vtterly mistaken my selfe but sure the bookes were not written by Angels man was the minister and the man that write them his name is Henrye Nicholas the same mans life I haue truely set downe not hearesayes but the trueth not of enimies but of his neighbours familiers not one man but many they will not onely speake the trueth but are ready vppon their othes to testifie the same 5 Where you iudge that you are suer they are not of the Church of Christ it is very rash Iudgement I coulde testifie of their honest life and manners but it shal be here impertinent You make your comparisons vnequall because Christ by two letters did testifie his maiestie power as god will you admit H. N. by like reason to vse two letters significant In déede I haue â—en aunswered y H. N. signifieth Homo nouus but such follyes will not serue you must of necessitie acknowledge H. N. to be a man as one of our Family at Farnam before the Bishop of Winchester did acknowledge confes him that is to say H. N. not only to be a maÌ„ but also a sinner least you shuld burden me with vntruth as you haue done I will giue you his name R. W. 6 You put me in minde of my impudent dealing in that I haue saide that none of your family dare set forth your doctrine in principles that all men may sée wherein you and we differ you referre me to a little booke called The confession of the Family which booke I haue read but that is very plausible nothing differing from vs If you helde no worse pointes then that booke doth vtter suerly I would come before you al acknowledg my fault and craue pardon but this is a méere mockery of the people to set down your faith common with vs and nothing contrary to vs where as your authour in sundrie places tearmeth vs a diuellish Sinagogue or schoolâ— and that we are not the Church but a harloâ—t If you and we professe one Christ one baptisme one faith why are we seuered in communion but it is a worlde to sée your doings in this matter When any of your family are conueÌ„ted before any officer in Christes Church then you subscribe to any forme you recant in your owne churches you promise neuer to professe H. N. nor his doctrine and yet still after so sollemne protestations you reteine your secrete doctrine which in fewe wordes is not plaine dealing If your doctrine be a trueth why doe you still deny it if the power of God hath shone through H. N. so mightely why doe you not in principles drawe your doctrine that the people of God may sée vppon what groundes and stayes you haue seuered your selfe from vs but you vse the pollicy of the cuttle a fish whose property is to trouble the water that she may not be séene so with your darke speaches misteries you would cast a myst that no man should sée your meaning and then stande vppon your tiptoes and say that your sentences haue such profounde maiestie that our simple grosse capacities cannot comprehend the same Plaine dealing is euer best If we be in error shewe it to vs in what points and for my owne part I wil if you can conuince me by the testimonies of holy scripture yeald vnto you or any 7 What conference I haue had with your family dyuers of your family can tell you 8 You say my disorderly dealing shall appeare in the aunswere to my booke which for my part I shal long looke for for hitherto you haue not set down any one place where in I haue mistaken your author In déede I tooke not vpon me to write against any one booke but to display what absurdities I finde in your authors Doctrine you shall finde that performid or it be long by Maister Knewstubs who hath written a book to confute your Euangelium Regni You apply this text of holy scripture very fondly Christ saith my kingdome is not of this world 9 You aske howe the trueth can be taught where his kingdome is not If you meane by this worde kingdome power maiestie dominion then it is shewed in y world manifested to hys Church But by kingdome the Euangelist doth vnderstande as I take it an outwarde shewe of principalitie which the Iewes looked for to be in their deliuerer or Messias which he denied to be in him which may better appeare in that which followeth For then would my ministers surely fight for me 11. I knowe that Christ chiefly reigneth in his Churche but who are the Church is the question Euery heresie seeketh to shadowe it selfe with the title of the Church but by the life of Gods holy worde they haue béen found heretikes and seducers and yet I neuer hearde of any errour but drewe their doctrine into principles and durst disspute with any in their opinions except one Basilides whiche Eusebius in his 4. booke Chap. 7. maketh mention of who feining sundrie titles of vnknown names of Prophetes to amaze their hearers depending vpon Reuelations and visions amongest other thinges taught this that in time of persecution their faith with periury might bee denied saying Iura periura fideÌ„ prodere noli Now surely if I might without offence compare your dealings with Basilides it shoulde be founde little differing 12 You say that the same doctrine which the Martyrs taught in the primitiue Church H. N. teacheth nowe but wee plainely denie that euer any taught a perfection to bee atteyned vnto in this life to liue not daily committing sinne or that our battell is ended when we be re generat or that any H. N. hath receiued such power of teaching extraordinarie as you imagine For we denie that he hath the spirite of god and say that he teacheth
méerè contrary doctrin vnto the scriptures It is therefore conuenient that you shew vs wher in you we differ in what pointes in what doctrine and then we shal thinke that there is some shewe of good meaning in you otherwise if you continue disslikers of our profession and shewe vs not wherein but referre vs to your authors bookes we shall neuer find out the difference betwene vs. 13 In déede in your long discourse you haue shewed your disliking in one part of our doctrine to wit of predestination which you impute to be the cause of the fulnes of prisons in England but before the doctrine was set foorth prisons haue béene full of leude persons such as regarde no religion Therefore you doe not well to charge the doctrine of predestination with so foule a faulte Which doctrine standeth vpon the omnipotencie of God so that they that acknowledge his almightinesse must of force graunt his power in predestination and election And although some stumble at the same yet the faulte is not in the doctrin but in the persons who take it by that part which it is not to be holden by For as a sharpe two edged sworde being taken by the blade or point to defende a man may as soone hurte himselfe as his enemie euen so who taketh the doctrine by such parte as the holy scriptures haue appointed it will be to their comfort otherwise it may hurt thē Many haue writtē largely in that argumēt whervnto hitherto few haue replyed And if no other matter gréeue your minds but this doctrin I doubt not but reconciliation may easely be bad but I am affrayde our Iustification in Christ our acknowledging ourselues to be sinners our weaknes in perfourming y law is also some cause of discention betwéen you and vs which I woulde be glad to vnderstande for my erudition 14 You say that H. N. exhorteth to true repentance godly loue vpright faith c. If we did not the like we were impions hipocrites but he you say doth it with power which we woulde gladly féele 15 Our iustification and redemption bragge we neuer so much thereof saye you helpeth not except a regenerate life followe We agrée with you that a regenerate life doth shewe a iustified man but maketh not a man iust For it is the fruite and not the roote of our iustification 16 But that you tearme our repentance obedience faith loue c. the vpright baptisme of the father your meaning I am ignorant of To take vp in the beléefe our crosse daily against sinne and this to be the true baptisme of the sonne as you say And when Christ hath gotten in vs a liuing forme or shape by faith and so be raised vpp in newnesse of life this you cal the true baptisme in the holy ghost All which I doe acknowledge may haue verie apt application so long as we imagine not a perfection to be wrought in vs as to be without sin For to be like to Christ or haue his image is to be vnderstoode to be like minded to him who did not sinne but that priuiledge onely perteineth to him and not to vs For he is like to vs in all thing sinne except but this barre sinne is the badge whereby his death and office worketh vppon vs to our saluation And except we with al the Prophets Patriarches Apostles other Gods children doing our best still acknowledge our selues sinners I cannot sée how Christs death doth by any meanes perteine vnto vs Gladly would I be resolued in this point 17 And nowe at this day we are called as you say and might finde much more rest if such enimies to al godlines as I am were not This is verie sharpe iudgemēt Bicause I manifest your familie doth it followe that I am enemie to all godlines Is ther no godlines vpō earth but among men of your profession only Christs houshold were very smal then and yet as I am an enemie to your doctrine so your persons I haue not hated For whom in their trouble I haue sought deliuerie and haue knowne of your méetings if I had béen enuiously minded but far be that from me 18 As for E. L. I protest vnto you euen by the Lord that he is vtterly ignorant of any my doings neither did I sée him this yeare and halfe yet did hée participate to mee of Christopher Vittals behauiour longe agoe Nowe touching your frée confession before all men out of the mouth of H. N. of your doctrin certeinly it is shadowed with such phrases and circumstāces that few can find any sense in his bookes but manye good wordes without conclusion which shoulde not bee in the puritie of a good cause 19 As for those propheticall spéeches in the Apocalipse of the white stone with a newe name written therein which none knoweth sauing he that receiueth it if this be H. N. as you would slily insinuate tel vs in plaine tearmes For your hidden misteries wil not longer serue 20 You aske what ministration was euer true which came not from God his owne mouth I answere as before that there must be both an inwarde calling which is from God an outward calling from men Nowe if H. N. or you will shewe vs that he is called frō God his owne testimonie is not sufficient neither doe his bookes manifeste his calling Therefore for the credite of his new doctrine it is required that he worke miracles or else prooue vnto vs that his doctrine is not disagréeing from the holy scriptures and that substancially If you woulde goe plainely to worke and shewe vnto vs your authours doctrine by principles prooue the same by holy scripture surely I and others woulde conceiue that vpon some grounde of good conscience you were seuered in iudgment from vs For so long as the matter remaineth hidden men construe your doinges worse peraduenthen it is it augmēteth suspition that being called to witnes forth your doctrine you are founde so fearefull and fainte that it sheweth not a testimonie of the spirite of God For where the spirte of God resteth there is ioyned wisedome audacitie constancie trueth and plaine dealing 21 And where you holde it good policie to flée frō one citie to an other being sought for I grant it to be reasō yet being called broght before y magistrats then fearefully or cowardly to fainte is méere impietie in a iust cause He that denieth me before men I will c. For either ye vtter such a confession as is holden of vs and beléeued among vs or else venie your author and his doctrine vtterly Did the Martires in the primitiue Church so Did our brethren in Queene Maries dayes so Nay cleane contrarie being called they did boldly publishe the trueth of Christ with open and plain speaches did set down their faith in principles to the eyes of al men and not kéepe it secrete in corners 22 Assuredly if H. N. be a minister of the Lorde then haue I much
N. nor his doctrine and yet haue turned to the same againe we do not denye but that some haue beene constrained so to doe and that it is no plaine dealing And I pray you tel mee hath the like matter euer beene heard of ere this tune that simple men who can scarcely reade Englishe because they haue read a booke or heard it read should be compelled to yelde an accompt of the spirite of the author that wrote the same I thinke not except you will allowe by like reason that euery simple man that heareth a doctor preache should be compelled to deliuer forth all his diuinitie or els to be committed to straight prison Learned men dispute with the learned it hath euer yet suffised amongst Gods ministers a simple person to yelde an accompt of his beleefe simply c. were not thinke you playner dealing better you say that wee vse the propertie of the Cuttell c. Do you not remember that the fleshly minded Iewes could not see their Sauiour when he was dayly amongst them yet they boasted verie stoutly of their sight and would not in any case confesse their blindnesse Wee stand not vpon our tiptoes as you say but we dayly acknowlege our blindnesse and waite vpon the Lord for our sight Wee say not that you are in errour but wee say that we haue through that sinfull nature of the fleshe that earthly lying being which hath wrought that disobedience in Adam where through we are all fallen beene bewrapped in all ignorance and blindnesse and for that cause are not ashamed to confesse our errour Wee will not go about to conuince you by the testimonies of the holy Scriptures for that lyeth not in our power neither were wee so dealt withall It is the Lorde by his grace that hath conuinced vs and brought vs vnder his crosse ▪ if he also conuince you then are ye rightly conuinced and so the praise thereof appertayneth onely vnto him And whereas you desire to knowe wherein you haue mistaken the author to that we saye that you haue not set downe any whole sentence but patched peeced the same without all order contrarie to your promise For you say you will not adde nor diminish but set downe the authors wordes worde for worde which you haue done euen as one may take the tenne commaundements and leaue out some wordes thereby say that God commaunded such things as for example Thou shalt haue none other Gods but mee Thou shalt not steale Thou shalt not committ adulterie c. Leaue out none not and then what is the commaundement If this be good dealing then you haue dealt well let all men iudge You say moreouer you tooke not vppon you to write against any one booke but to display the absurdities you found in the auctors doctrine which wee shall fynde perfourmed ere it be long by master Knewstub who as we suppose shall displaye him selfe therein euen like as you haue in your booke displayed your selfe and your adherents You say we apply this text My kingdome is not of this world c. verie fondly we take his kingdome not to be outward but inward vz. peace righteousnesse and ioy in the spirit which things the world is ignorant of you may expound it at your pleasure though we expressed our minde therein in plaine dealing mought it please you so to take it You say moreouer you knowe that Christ raigneth in his Church but who are the church is the question In deede master Rogers you say verie well and nowe giue vs leaue to vse plaine dealing with you least otherwise we mought happe to slaunder or belye you In your book one leafe before your admonitiō to Christopher Vittell these be your owne wordes Howe H. N. iudgeth of vs because wee acknowledge our selues to be of the Church of Christ. For that cause if thou nowe accompt not thy selfe for an whoore but esteemest thy selfe for the faithfull espowsed wife of Christ c. And nowe for as much as we vse not neither are so taught in the seruice of loue to iudge rashly or vnaduisedly of any people to their reproche like as you haue done of vs let vs intreat you to read in the booke called The prophesie of the spirite of loue the tenth Chapter sect 12. 13. 14. and in the 11. 12. Chapters throughout and then see with an vnparciall eye what manner of Churche that it is which he doth there reproue you shall finde it in deede to be that fleshly wicked nature that lying being which spareth not with his earthly knowledge to set it selfe to iudgement and to giue sentence of the godly matters which he calleth a false seede an adulterous generation of the earthly man which hath inhabited the earth with vnrighteousnesse iudged it falsely with her lyes seduced the simple oppressed the little ones murdered the holy ones of God and spylt the innocent bloud on the earth He calles it moreouer a bronde of the venomous Dragon yea of the diuell and of the earthly lying generation which is begotten of the seede of the Serpent and viperous generation which hath alwayes beene a false and a wicked whoore vppon the earth c. which church you nowe do challenge to your selues and acknowledge your selues as members of the same euen like as wee in times past haue also done Which thing so soone as the Lorde let vs see into then fell wee down before the Lorde and shamed not to confesse our faultes before him as that wee had ouerlong taken parte with that whoorishe nature of the earthly fleshly and sinfull being whome wee do nowe by Gods grace vtterly abhorre hoping dailye by the might of Christe Iesus our Lorde to see her filthie nakednesse in vs and in manye disclosed abhorred and reiected for euer more You desire to knowe of vs the difference betwixt you and vs Could any man tell it more plainly then you in your wordes haue here manifested the same Consider aduisedly of it so shall you not neede henceforth to demaunde of vs any further resolution in that point but must of necessitie if you doe well fall downe before the Lorde and crye with vs Peccauimus cum patribus nostris iniuste egimus iniquitatem fecimus You charge vs vniustly with the errour of Basilides as though wee were forswearers of our selues whereas yet notwithstanding there hath neuer beene proued any such matter against any of that companie or in any of all that authors workes which may well suffise to stop your mouth if trueth will serue to aunswer you And yet I remember that Tindall a learned man and writer in his booke of Obedience writeth these wordes Breake not vp into the consciences of men after the example of Antichristes disciples which compell them eyther to forsweare themselues by the Almightie God and by the holie Gospell of his mercifull promises or to testifie against them selues which abhomination our prelates learned of Caypha◠Math. 26.
dominion in vs it raigneth not in vs we are not seruauntes to sinne this the scripturs teach in many places but that we shall quench it vtterly or subdue if with all the motions thereof the scriptures teach vs no such doctrine being rightly vnderstoode Looke I pray you what that holy vessell saint Paul spake of himselfe after he was regenerate Romaines 7. verse 14. I am carnal sold vnder sinne for I allowe not that which I doe For what I would that doe I not but what I hate that do I. It is not I that doe it but sinne that dwelleth in me Againe verse 23. I delight in the law of God concerning the inwarde man but I see an other law in my members rebelling against the lawe of my minde and leading mee captiue vnto the lawe of sinne which is in my members When he entred farre into the consideratiō of this his frailtie he exclaymed said verse 24. A wretched man that I am who shall deliuer me frō the body of this death And in these extreame considerations and battell which we haue with sinne cōtinually euen vntil death make an end saint Paul by the spirite of God doth plainely arme Gods children and sheweth the remedie in like cōflicts saying I thank god through Iesus Christ our Lord c this is brought to passe by him that sinne is not imputed vnto vs But as Dauid saide Blessed is the man whose sinnes are couered And this is wrought only without vs not in vs as you imagine So y our battell is continual and neuer ended in vs vntill we be dissolued and at rest with Christ Iesus contrary to your assertion You sée no cause you say that we shoulde be enimies to so good a doctrine as you professe If your doctrine were good and agréeable to the holy scriptures we woulde embrace it but because it is contrarie there vnto we reiect it To forsake that false sinfull nature with you we simply agrée but with the Poet we say Naturam expellas furca tamen vsque recurret To be at defiance there with and bidde battell against it we agrée but to conquer it to kill it or subdue it vtterly in this life that we deny That God can doe this by his powre in vs we denie not but that he will do it in vs as you affirme the scriptures allowe not of For it standeth not with the glorious office of Christ Iesus that such perfection and such a conquest of sinne should be wrought in vs but that we féeling our miseries our wants our weakenesse◠might sue by peticion in earnest prayer for strength for mercy for deliuery which all the Godly in Christ his church haue euer done For we are neuer nearer vnto our God nor neuer more accepted with him then when we feele sinne as a burthen or loade lye heauely vpon vs nor neuer further of then when by illusion of sathans persuasion we imagin sinne to be quenched or conquered All such as ouercome in the battell you say shall knowe the name written in the white stone mencioned by Iohn You say further that such as haue no lust to ouercome that earthly sinfull nature but haue more lust to take part therewith knowe nothing thereof although they boast of their knowledge or fréedome neuer so much This knowledge therefore you would conclude to be in you and not in vs Your knoweledge we enuie not nor your séeking to serue the Lord vprightly For our whole care studie minde is bent to do the same and we pray you hartely to ioyne your selues to vs that you and we may serue the Lorde our God as he hath commaunded and not H. N. and his precepts Looke into the holy bookes of our God and deale not with the darke riddles of H. N. Set not vp his bookes in your mindes so highly The Scriptures are our comfort and our stay without H. N. He exerciseth a greate Popedome among you You had rather speake and vse his phrases not found in holy scripture then content your selfe with the phrases of the holy Ghost You often mencion these tearmes the lying being the vpright fréedome Godded with God the newest day the louely being of the loue c. Are these to be founde in the holy Scripture or are they not deuised by H. N. to bring admiration to his doctrine by straunge and vnaccustomed speach If the loue of God be in you as you woulde haue vs beléeue it is loue the Lorde Iesus and his holy worde and let H. N. with new tearmes and phrases goe Belieue not that God hath wrought in him any such a worke as you pretend examine his doings and sayings better you wil credit nothing that is spoken against him be it neuer so true you except it as lyes and heresies what soeuer testimony his neighbours famyliers who knewe him long vppon their oth shall affirme but according to your conceiued opinion you like him you imbrace him you onely credit his testimonies dislyking others which if you continue as you begin there is neither hope nor helpe nor conference that can doe you good vntill the Lorde shake away the mist of darknesse which ouer shadoweth your eyes through the doctrine of H. N. that you cannot beholde the bright beames of Christ his glorious gospell Your authors doctrine is not sufficiently knowen vnto some of you the fragments whereof you are but meanly acquited with the secreat part of his purpose I doubt as yet is not extant and more of his works are abroad then are come to your handes therefore for the loue of God looke better into his minde and credite not his bare sayings without warrant of holy scripture neither beléeue that almightie God hath wrought in him any such extraordinary power as is imagined The cause the moued me to write these thinges is a little booke came to my handes of late called Mans falling away his comming againe and Lordlynesse In the first section you shall finde this written worde for word H. N. his words See and marke ye beloued in the beginning when god made al things wel then was the Lorde one Lorde of his kingdome and one God of his workes there was also no more but one God and one man and they were one and had in all one order being and nature for God was all that the man was and man was all that God was Beloued when God looked on the man which he had made according to the like being of his godhed then looked he vpon him selfe as the same clerenesse of his liuing godhed Likewise when the man looked vpon his God his ientle clene vnspotted manhode in all full comlinesse in all honestie fayrenesse in all fashion and being according to the same Godhed so this was al one God the man. I pray you loke into this doctrin whiche your Authour H. N. teacheth examine it by thy holy scriptures and iudge rightly therein whether this can by any colour of
speach be qualified or expoundedsoundly or christianly if you haue not this booke among you I shall be content to sende you either the book or the coppie therof that you may examine your Authours doctrine better For in my opinion this is blasphemie And where you say that the world shall knowe ere it belong what your meaning is therin I am vncertain except you would that these our conferences should be published whiche if it be your mind send me word for I am not ashamed of any thing that I haue written and then lette the children of God in the world iudge where trueth and plaine dealing is then shall appeare the difference of doctrin betwéen vs The Lorde worke his will in vs that in all our actions wee seeke his glory and not our owne praise Amen The 16. of March. 1578. Your friend I. R. A briefe Apologie to the displaying of the Familie IT doth appeare by reading of these discourses that in the familie there are some who to defende their author and his doctrine haue vsed some diligence what clamors they haue vttered against me doth appeare how often they haue charged me with falcifying their Authors sayinges is manifeste howe they doe discredite such testimonie as is produced against H. N. of such as knew the man longe and were his familiers is shewed What vntruethes what slaunderous speaches what raylinge wordes what caueling what wrangling which doeth bewray the familie of what spirite they are and with what spirite they are guided Many friuolous matters I haue not touched as not worth aunswere and many things are but slenderly handled as the nature of a priuate letter which requireth briefenes will permit Of all whiche falsefying and peruerting of their author only they shew one place wherin I collect that H. N. speaketh against the Church which he tearmeth a whore which they affirme is spoken againste the wicked nature of man But whither of vs more truly haue shewed the true sence of the wordes iudge I pray thée Howe they tearme vs frée ones libertines howe they call the doctrine of predestination licencious how they impunge the confidence we haue in Christes death calling it our bragge how they affirme the Lawe possible to be kept and many other such matters doth manifestly by reding these letters appeare Wherby the godly Christian may as time occasion shal serue hauing conference w any in the family sée in what matters these men are captiued so to indeuour to heale y sore now the wound is opened And where as I protested in my preface that I haue dealt truely and faithfully not maliciously and corruptly as I am accused For further proofe hereof I will briefely declare my euidence that the worlde may sée the exclamations they make are friuolous cauilles Touching the storie of Dauid George â–ª it is published by the vniuersitie of Basill in print out of which I haue collected the story truely For H. N. as before I haue shewed the testimony of his neighbours I haue to shewe being a liue and of honest credite in the Duch Church For their doings in Munster I haue shewed my opinion and the reasons that moued me so to thinke Also the articles which they published what coherence agréement they haue with the Family and how the Anabaptistes hold none of the same Althogh I know that Martin Luther Iohn Sleydan and others do call them generally Anabaptists I haue declared the reasons that moued me to thinke the contrary Let euery man credite these things as God shall moue only I cleare my selfe that of malice I haue done herein nothing The other matters are produced 〈…〉 the bookes of H. N. and gathered b◠〈…〉 ference with the family Now tou 〈…〉 〈…〉 the confession which I say two 〈…〉 〈…〉 Familie made before a worshipful Iustice of peace they deny that they were of their Familie but this is certaine the parties are liuing and followers of one Allyne of Woneherst a great companion of Christopher Vittells which Allin died soudenly by the high way going to Farnam to be examined before y bishop of winchester Thus haue I briefly touched the stories which the familie doe discredit Nowe if I mighte vtter my simple coniecture touching the saide Familie with out offence For as much as their beginning was in Englang about the latter end of Quéene Maries rainge when many of our brethren were entred into that gulfe of fréewill teaching that common grace reserued in Adam was appropriate to vs also and likewise certeine Arrians with Pellagians ioyning together found an author for their purpose vnder a newe deuised name of Familie of Loue. What do they teach but the old 〈…〉 ry leuin of such heretiques as were long agoe knowne and condemned and in déede take from them the weapons of the foresayd heretikes and you shall finde them vnarmed and naked and yet vnder a newe visor they woulde not bee noted as any touched with their doctrine but that they are newe matters broched by H. N. onely and not knowen in the worlde vntill now Surely the papistes do not magnifie their pope as the Family do H. N. whose bookes and doctrine may not be discredited neither can he erre For by no meanes can they be brought to acknowledge that H. N. may erre Therfore this newe Pope deludeth the pore Family with his darke spéeches and ranging stile without conclusion wher in they imagine that very diuinely and with such maiestie their authou 〈…〉 written that we simple ones 〈…〉 vnderstand and no mauell for su 〈…〉 doubte he vnderstandeth not him 〈…〉 For if a man will followe his qu 〈…〉 on s of Scriptures whiche hee 〈…〉 downe so thick and so close in the 〈…〉 giue of his bookes and epistles a 〈…〉 meanly excercised in the holy scrip 〈…〉 may well perceiue how farre from the purpose of the holy ghost H. N. hath applied them The Lord of mercie consolatioÌ„ giue theÌ„ the true vnderstanding of thy holy word let not sathan leade the simple shéep out of the waies of the Lorde our god but giue thy people O lord the wit of serpeÌ„ts to beware of sathaÌ„s sutilties who enuying the prosperity of thy gospell setteth himselfe against the same by raysing vp olde sectes vnder newe cloaks so that thy people being preserued vnder thy defence may euermore extol and magnifie thy glorious name and reioyce ouer the conuersion of our brethreÌ„ that they being brought home again into thy folde we may all praise thy â—â—orious name and with one voyce aâ—â—â—inde may cry Veni domine Iesu 〈◊〉 Amen I. R. Matth. 28. Rom. â— â–ª Acts. 9. Actes 10. â— Pee 3. Gene. 4. 6. 7. 8. 9 19. Exod. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5 6. 7. 8. 9. 10. 11. 12. 13. 14 1â— 20. 32. Num. â—2 Iosu. 1 â— 6 7. 10. Iudith 1 â–ª 5 7. 1â— 1. Reg. 4. 5. 17. 31. 3. Reg. 18. 22. 4. Reg. 1. 2. 17. Psal 1. Rom. 1. Ezech. 37. Dani. 5 3. D. Cooper Cron. Image of both chur ches â—usebius Gesuerus The dung of tâ—eâ—â—d ingâ—dâ—eâ—h the mistle Matâ—â—â—lus Raâ—tholomens Ortuâ—â—anitatis Proph. cap â— diuis 5. Esai 53. Rom. 4. Iohn 3. 16. Rom. 7. Rom. 3. Psal. 14. Actes 4. Mat. 18. By baptisme he mea â–ª neth not the sacrament of Baptisme * which is in him Proph. cap 1. diui 2. Cap. codâ— diui 5. Cap. 3. diuisi 2. Diui. 3. Cap. 13. diui 8. Cap. 19. diui 3 â–ª Diui. 11. Exhort 1. cap â–ª 13. diuisi 11. Ibi. di 12. Exhor 1. cap. 15. di 26. fol. 40 Proph. cap 11. fol. 27. Proph. cap. 13. fol. 27. Exhor cap 11. fol. 44 Dia. cap. 7 fol. 45. Exhort fol 43. cap. 16. Aba 1. a Acts. 13. f Scripture euil applied The opinioÌ„ of the Familie of Loue concerning predestination Rom. 6. a. b. c. c Ephc. 4. â— Collos. 2. b 2. Timo. 2 c. d. Gall. 3. d Iohn a Prou. 14 a b Prou. 19. a c 3. Reg. 20. b. d 1. Reg. 17. f. e 2. Tim. 2. d f Iam. 3. c. g Prou. 29. â— h Gala. 6. â— i Rom. 12. d. k Matt. 11. d l 1. Pet. 2. d. m Matt. 5. â— n Luke 6. c o Matt. 7. b. p Gala. 5. c. q Gala. 6. a. Ephes. 4. a. Thess. 5. b. r Rom. 15. a. s Iam. 5. d. t Prou. 14. â— u Matt. 7. c. x Luke 11. c y Iohn 14. b z Rom. 2. b. a Iames. 1. d b Apo. 22. d c Eccle. 12. â— d Num. 11. g e Psal. 19. b. f Psal. 69. a. g Psa. 113. b h Psal. 116. b i Psal. 119. c k Eccle. 9. d. l Iob. 24. c. m Zach. 9. b n Zach. 11. c. o Eccl. 30. d p Eccl. 40. â— q Apo. 21. c r Matt. 7. â— â–ª s Matt. 25. â— t Prou. â—7 c Prophesie 11. fol. 27. Sect. 1 Sect. 2. Sect. 6. â—â—printed at London by Henrie Middleton for George Byshop