sentence my self if the Church should so appoint By which compared with his writing may appeare how still he keepeth on his woonted course against vs hath himself drawen fourth this vnfolding of his evill dealing and his wives too For the others of whom he speaketh viz Mrs Sl. Goodw. Ch. R. M. they were excommunicated for other causes then he hath noted downe And it is not our maner to cast out any for differeÌ„ce of iudgement in such cases if they be content notwithstanding to walk peaceably with the Church and to cary themselves towards the excommunicates as they should by the word â—f God But if they joyne with them in their evill as some of these more specially did with his wife then are they also for so doing justly subiect to the â—ame censure with them as in this case likewise came to passe That which he speaketh of the Magistrate is false he did not forbid but perswaded vs not to do it Though if he had or should forbid vs any thing which God requireth at our hands we have learned to obey God rather then man As we did then answer him that what we did we would alwayes be ready to approue by the word of God And now by that which hath bene said let the Reader judge whether this fellowes hard forehead verify not the Oratours saying He that 〈◊〉 passeth the bounds of modestie becommeth impâ—dent out of measure Excommunication we vse as the holy ordinaunce of God to recover the parties that have sinned if so it be his will and to keep the Church from the leaven of their wickednes If we did it not we should dishonour God and be accessary to their evill But observing it we vse the remedie which Christ hath given vs for their good and if it work not so in them then is their destruction the more iust vpon their heads and we are cleare Neyther doth the long suffring spirit of meeknes hinder but that due execution of the Lords judgement vpon obstinate sinners be inflicted And being so done neyther will this mans cursing vs for good hurt vs not his blessing of himself others in evill help them Therefore to his many curses denounced against vs I will give no other answer but say with Salomon The curse causeles shall not come but fly away as a birde and returne vpon him that allegation out of the Prophet As he loved cursing so shall it come vnto him and as he loved not blessing so shall it â—e farre from him and as he clothed himself with cursing like a garment so shall it come into his bowels like water like oyle into his bones And for his blessing of himself and others in evill I will referre him to that denuntiation of Moses against every such one as when he heareth the wordes of the curse yet blesseth himself in his heart saying I shall have peace although I walk according to the stubburnes of mine owne heart 〈◊〉 adding drunkennes to thirst The Lord will not be mercifull vnto him but then the wrath of the Lord and his ielousy shall smoke against that man every curse that is written in the book of the Law shall light vpon him and the Lord shall put out his name from vnder heaven and the Lord shall separate him vnto evill out of all the tribes of Israell according vnto all the curseâ— of the covenaunt that 〈◊〉 written in the book of the Law Deut. 29. â—9 20.21 For that which he speakâ—th of our Tents it is to be noted that this man himself desiring heretofore to partake with vs in the Lords supper did in our publick meeting compare our and all true Churches to the Tents of Shem the assemblies of the Church of England whither now he is returned to the Tents of Corah Dathan Abiram What remayneth therefore but that according to the words of his owne mouth and course of his own walking he be left to the Lord the iealous God that judged Corah his coÌ„pany Who also is the God of Shem will performe to the soÌ„nes of Iapheth whoÌ„ he perswadeth to dwell in Shems tents according to his promise made of old to Abraham sonne of Shem Father of the faithfull of all nations saying I will blesse them that blesse thee and curse them that curse thee Gen. 12.3 For that which he annexeth about fatherles children himself knoweth we approve no such dealing And some of the persons to whom they were comitted are departed this life The living belike could not serve his turne but he will digge into the graves of the dead who cannot answer for themselves Or if he meane of any that are alive why gave he not after his maner some knowledg who they be Would he not that the matter should have ben considered and answer made accordingly Or would he that we should speake what we heare concerning a fatherles child who was long since with that woman who is now this Whites wife and ran away from her who knoweth best her self how she vsed her For our selues we mislike all hard and evill vsage of any much more savage and cruell dealing to fatherles children who ought most of all to be pityed and holpen If any such have more specially felt their part of our common troubles and poverty why will he not consider his Lords the Prelates their savage and cruell dealing with vs who have made many poore orphanes and widowes among vs besides many other great calamities brought vpon vs by their meanes Of which to begin to speak were to enter into an Ocean sea so many and great they are and not vnknowen to this White himself howsoever he can like now to sayle in that sea where putting away a good conscience he hath concerning the faith made shipwrack For that which he saith of W.C. the man himself affirmeth that be spake not these words at all which he hath printed of him and that he told this Whites wife before the book was published and spake it synce to his owne face that it is a lye Some words he confesseth he spake which were evill but those also spoken by him about a yeare before he ioyned to the Church as himself testifyeth Yet White obiecteth his speach as the confession of our own members affirming also what he hath printed to be spoken before many witnesses Which if it were yet till we should know it after knowledg dealing with him find him obstinate in such evill how could we but have him still a member among vs But if such speaches yea or publick writings of the members of the Church of England would content men as White will with this content himself how easy were it for his one to to produce a thousand and none of them perverted neyther The conclusion of his Libell is like the rest The censures of Christ in his Church he blasphemously calleth our fond excommunications which before in like manner he
also when any of the Church yea or the whole do transgresse eyther in some thing which yet they have not seen or whereinto now they are fallen they are notwithstanding a true visible Church And by their calling and covenant they have power in Christ to redresse them Which when vpon knowledg they shall refuse and â—o continue then are they to be esteemed according as their case shall require So then to judge rightly of a true Church we must look as the Apostles did at their calling and coÌ„munion in the Gospell Which being observed it wil be easy to put difference between the errours and the constitution of true Churches as Christ and his Apostles did in the Churches of Asia Achaia Galatia c. to reprove them for the one and yet to approue them as true Churches for the other And this also vntill Christ himself remove his candlestick and take away his kingdome from among them which is to be left vnto him to do when as it pleaseth him And this also might serue for answer to the exception drawen from my writing concerning the Israelites in Egypt who sinned with Idols and yet were Gods people But it being so vrged by divers as it is I will note a few things more concerning it in particular The objection is made thus If they coÌ„mitted Idolatry vvith the Idols of Egypt hovv were they then a company of faithfull people separated from all false vvayes I answer By the Lords former calling of them to the obedience of himself who was by covenant the Lord their God and they his people Gen. 12. 17. 46. vvith Exod. 2.23.24.25 3.7 8.15.16 Numb 20.16 Deut. 26.7 Which also is laid as the ground of the admonition for calling of them from that Idolatry spoken of Ezech. 20.7 And may not a people so separated as aforesaid fall into this sinne of Idolatry aswell as into other sinnes See the case of Israel afterward againe Exod. 32. Where Moses in his prayer to God calleth Israell the Lords people even then when they had coÌ„mitted such Idolatry as the Lord would presently have consumed theÌ„ for it Exod. 32.1.10.11 And of Israell againe see what is recorded Iudg. 2. c. And likewise of the Church of Rome which at first was a true Church separated from all false wayes yet fell into this sinne and coÌ„tinueth therein Rom. 1.6.7.8 16.19 vvith Rev. â— 13. and 14. 17. chap. But this was the generall estate of the Israelites at that tyme. What then So may it fall out with a true Church as now hath ben shewed and so we are taught Lev. 4.13.14 Yet here also might be demaunded whether he meane it to be so generall as including all of Israel therein specially considering what is written of some in those tymes Ex. 1. 2. 6 20-27 Numb 1. vvith Heb. 11.23 c. And whether this Idolatry were publike or private like as that spoken of Ezech. 8 12. Zeph. 1.1.4.5 But howsoever their sinne vvas also of obstinacy for they vvere admonished from the Lord yet they rebelled against him as the Scripture sheweth Ezech. 20.7.8 And even the same Scripture sheweth also that for this cause they deserved themselves God thought to haue powred out his indignation vpon them but stayed it in respect of his ovvn Name which is called vpoÌ„*his Churches people not because of their estate as now it was Ezec. 20.7.8.9 And how doth this then overthrow not rather coÌ„firme the desâ—ription aforesaid Or must we not alway desribe esteem a Church by the conditioÌ„ thereof according to the revealed word of God yet leave vnto the Lord to esteem deale therewith notwithstanding as in any respect seemeth good vnto himself Or when God saith he is the Lord their God and calleth them his sonne and first borne whom he might in respect of their own estate cast of can we not so esteem of them but we must therevpon conclude that in the description of a true visible Church Idolatrie and all false wayes are not to be excluded or to speak of the questions controverted at this day that Rome in all her Idolatries is notwithstanding still to be reputed the spouse of Christ and not to be rejected as an harlot and so likewise all the Churches that be her daughters in that estate Againe what if it were as some think that Israell first rebelling and so provoking God to wrath as is aforesaid did afterward through the affliction which by Pharaoh was encreased vpon them turne into their own hart and crie vnto the Lord God of their fathers as we read Exod. 2. and 3. Numb 20.16 Deut. 26.7 should we not then put difference between obstinacy still persisted in that which is afterward repented of amended Not to speak of the Israelites estate in Egypt how in their kindred and families the Church consisted and was governed and how then they had not the word written â—eyther of their estate afterward in the wildernes how God did never so punish theÌ„ for any of their transgressions though of the same nature before his Law given vnto them as he did after as may be observed in the history So teaching all ages succeeding to take speciall heed to his written word according to it to esteem walk in all things Wherefore to end this point thus I think that for Israel all other people and Churches we are bound alwayes so to esteem and walk as by the word of God we have direction and vvarrant from him and neyther to judge nor vvalk othervvise And as Christ giveth to all true Churches their being so to leave vnto him to take it away when and as he pleaseth And for this case of Israel in particular let me further aske whether such of the Israelites as should now have left that Idolatry spoken of ought not also to have left coÌ„munion therein with the rest so transgressing and yet to have left them to the Lord to esteem and deale with them as in any respect should seem good vnto himself For that which he objecteth next out of the Preface to the last answ to Mr Ia. sect 6. it is concerning Churches wilfully persisting in errour and disobedience of the trueth and voice of Christ and shewed by the example of the Churches of the Iewes 〈…〉 â—â—â—son objected about them by D.B. For which I refer the Reader to that Preface sectioÌ„ together with that which is said in the answer to the 4. section of the same Preface and more particularly to that which I haue written about this poynt in the booke it self pag. 161.195.196 in the answer to Mr A.H. pag. 61.62 Where the Reader shall fynd what I haue written and what my judgment is concerning this matter namely that all good and lawfull meanes being first vsed towards true Churches fallen into sinne if they amend not but wilfully persist therein the Lord hath threatned to remove the candlestick
In the fourth his bad dealing doth yet further appeare it being a matter wherewith himself is acquainted and yet propoundeth not the case truely as he knoweth it to be VVe have indeed misliked in the Dutch Church not Churches as he speaketh of AmsterdaÌ„ that consisting of so great a multitude it is but one and yet meeteth in three severall places by meanes whereof the whole Church cannot come together in one the ministers can not together with the flock sanctifie the Lords day the presence or absence of the meÌ„bers of the Church cannot certainly be knowen nor any publick action be rightly performed Which reasons we signifyed to themselves in our dealing with them heretofore On the other side we misliked also that a few people being straungers together in one towne of one language of one profession in religion having not before tyme their peculiar officers should in such case yet divide themselues into severall Churches For which I required example or warrant out of the Scriptures and alledged my self divers reasons about this question And what contrariety now is there in these things being laid together as they ought with their true and due circumstances Such perhaps as the false teachers would pretend against Paul when he circumcised Timothee Act. 16.1.3 and yet would not circumcise Titus but withstood the false brethren that vrged it Gal. 2.3.4.5 The others he speaketh of were himself and some other with him who had left the Church of England and came to dwell here Touching whom seing he pretendeth that they ioyned not to vs for divers disorders amongst vs I wil here advertise the Reader a few things coÌ„cerning them and those also specially out of their own letters which being as their owne children shall also be their Iudges WheÌ„ they had left the Church of England as having aâ— Antichristian Ministery worship confusion c. they first joyned in to a Church in the West parts of England professing the same faith with vs. A while after they came over hither at first communicated with vs but afterward being about twelve or thirteen they ioyned themselues here as a body together to walk in the same faith and way as we do reputing and calling themselves a Church distinct from vs and in their letters to the Church of the West countrey thus inscribed them The Church in Amst. to our bretheren the Church in the West partakers of the same heavenly vocation c. And in the letter wrote thus For our consultatioÌ„ resolution thus it is To meet apart by our selves aswell for the redresse of disorders that may arise as also for the administration of the word expecting the blessing of God which hath not chosen vs for our multitude seeing we were the fewest of all others And againe in the same letter for our own estate though our hope to be a body distinct in our countrey vvere yet is not our hope to be a distinct body in a straung countrey frustrated but rather accomplished And afterward againe speaking of vs and themselues they say For the other Churches estate though that acknowledgment of them vvere graunted yet all things considered vvhether God doth not offer vs occasion to increase the number of the Churches and our selves to vvalk together in holynes to the Lord vvho have had better experience one of another then of that Churches estate that by this meanes the adversaries reproches of one Church and flocking therevnto setting vp one head may be stopped is the thing vve pray you to ponder Thus they wrote in a generall letter together And in another of theirs written in particular by this T. White Tho. Pow. We say they through Gods mercy haue our meetings now apart from our bretheren the Church in Amsterdam building vp our selves vvith that small ability that God hath inabed vs vvithall c. as also receiving such members as vve fynd meet and desirous of our fellowship And afterward in the same letter Wâ— haue had one meeting already together vvherein M. W. is ioyned Consider that vvhich is vvritten Exo. 7. â— and pray vvith vs that the Lord vvould sâ—nd the Northvvynd and the Southvvynd the one cold the other hote Luk 12.55 that is the liuely graces of his spirit in the preaching of his Law and Gospell to blow vp that our garden may be fruitfull Cant. 4.16 but not an Eastvvynd vvhich vvithered Ionas gourd Ion 4. Thus wrote they then of themselves By which may appear both what they intended and for what They intended to be a severall Church from vs though they were but a few and of the same faith living straungers together in the same towne c. And the cause why they did it That they might redresse disorders among themselves that they might be a distinct body in a straung countrey as they purposed in our native countrey before they came over hither that they might encrease the number of Churches that they might stop the adversaries reproches of one Church and flocking therevnto setting vp one head that they might receive such meÌ„bers as were desirous of their fellowship and that they might also themselves be a garden fruitfull c. If these things were so as then they wrote how saith he now in his book that the cause why they would not ioyne to vs was for disorders amongst vs How do his letters and his Libell agree together Specially seing in the same letters at the same tyme they write vs to be their brethreÌ„ the Church in Amsterdam of whose estate they had not that experience c. Belike he had forgotten the old saying Mendacem oportet esse memorem A lyer had need have a good memorie And further if it were as he saith now why did they not then so alledg that we might haue insisted therevpon why shrank they from the handling of the question between vs which we would have discussed by the Scriptures had not they refused as they did But if some be not mistaken there was an other cause then any of the aforesaid which they will not make knowen namely that Mr Po. this White might have bene Officers of that Church whereof they had little hope among vs to satisfie their desier Which whether it were so or not themselves know best And howsoever yet with what face can this hypocrite write as he doth that they would not joyn to vs for divers disorders among vs when but even a while after they returned to the Church of England which they knew certainly to have not onely divers disorders but even a multitude of the corruptions of Antichrist the sonne of perdition Well might he write of these things as he did in another letter of his to Mr S. W. Respice finem Look to the end For as they sowed so have they reaped not having the wind of Gods grace to blow vpon them that they might be a fruitfull garden but the worme of Gods judgment to smite them that they might become a withered gourd