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A79520 An answer to a book which Samuel Eaton put up to the Parliament: which he saith he is a teacher of the Church of Christ, heretofore meeting at Ducken-field, now at Stockport in Cheshire; and he cals the title of his book Quakers confuted. Moses who was a judg quaked and trembled, David a king in Israel quaked and trembled, and Solomon who was a king trembled, and Daniel a servant of the most high God trembled, ... And these heard the voice of God, and thou that writest, thou mayest say thou hast confuted all them; for he that is against them, is against us, and he that is against us, is against them, for the same power is witnessed; but thou Eaton, who saith thou art a teacher of the church at Duckenfield, who saith thou hast heard the voice of the living God, and that such a voice as this, as comes immediately from God, you have not heard, ... And Isaiah saith, hear the word of the Lord all ye that tremble at his word; and this is the man that I do regard, saith the Lord, that is of a contrite heart, and trembleth at my word; but such Eaton and his church doth not regard, but custs out friends of the Lord from them, whom the world calls Quakers. Camm, John, 1604?-1656. 1654 (1654) Wing C389; Thomason E735_9; ESTC R206969 38,921 53

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believe that there is any essential or personal unity between this eternal Spirit and the Saints believers for such unity would either make the Spirit and Believers some third things Rep. Silence Flesh who art in confusion for thou hast nothing to do to talk of Unity nor this eternal Spirit which thou sayest is God and yet there is no eternal Unity with the eternal Spirit Query 2. Whether the Apostles did give a right meaning to the Scriptures when they gave them forth or left them to you to give the meaning of them yea or no Ans And thy answer is That in all the Scriptures they gave forth had a meaning with those Scriptures which they gave forth yet not alwayes so plainly that the meaning thereof might be rightly taken up by those that read them unless compared with some other Scriptures which they also have given out which have plainer sense in them and are helpful to expound them Rep. And hear thou leaves Spirit and thy confused stuff is issued out of thy Bottle who would make the Apostle a lyar who used plainness of speech and so the Scriptures were of no private interpretation nor came not by the will of man which thou in thy will art giving senses unto who sayest it is left to you to find out the sense and meaning who saith the letter contains contradictions thou lyar there is no contradictions in it but the contradictions is in thy self for where the same Spirit is made manifest as was in them that gave forth the Scriptures it owne it without any of thy senses and meanings who art in the number of the Beast here is wisdome let him that hath understanding count the number Obj. And whereas thou sayest Christ commands to search the Scriptures because the meaning lyeth deep in many places yet by searching what Scriptures lay together speak the sense may be gotten out Rep. Here thou art a lyar Did Christ bid them search the Scriptures to find out the sense of the Scriptures Here thou add'st to make people believe that there was life in the Scriptures when Christ saith not so but saith Ye will not come unto me that ye might have life And though they had the letter of the Scripture yet they knew not Christ therefore they were to come to him that they might have life which opens the Scriptures without thy sences or meanings for they had thought to have found life in the Scriptures as thou dost Object Another Scripture thou brings of Christ destroying this Temple and in three daies raise it up again Rep. And thou lyar thou sayest there is a sense in these words did he not speak plainly Here thou shewest thy self to be among them that gave a sence upon his words and could not understand his speech and as they did so dost thou who canst not understand plainness and hast cleared thy self from that Spirit that spoke forth these words and if you had that Spirit that gave forth the Scriptures you need not bring Scripture to interpret Scripture for the same Spirit that gave them forth will open all again but from this Spirit thou hast cleared thy self and thou art unlearned without the life in thy own sense and points Object And again thou sayest they are not left to put your own sense upon them Reply What is it but thy own sence when thou sayest God doth not intend to teach immediate or if it be not immediate it is carnal and natural And the carnal man knows not the things that are of God who lives in thy own sence Quer. 3. Whether plagues be not added to them who adde to the Prophesies written in this Book or whether his name be not to be diminished out of the Book of life who diminisheth or whether you can witness this Name yea or no Ans And thy answer is nothing to purpose or the Book of life or the new name thou shews thy self ignorant of therefore thou art unlearned and must be silent as thou art to it and let the Prophets Christ and the Apostles alone for they all spake by one spirit according to their growth and the fulfilling of the Scriptures Object But thou speaks of an Interpretation that agrees to the spirit of the Scriptures Reply That Interpretation we deny for you would have another Interpretator besides the Spirit and here thou shews thy self to be in thy fancy adding to whom the plagues of God are due who adds another interpretation besides the Spirit and thou art in the nature of all them who thou reckons up which art out of the truth Object Thou accusest the quakers for grand Impostures which they beguile people they bring the letter which serves for their purpose Reply This shall stand for thy own condition for thy impostures we abhor and here thou art a lyar I charge thee in the presence of the Lord as to say we bring the letter which serves for our purpose to deceive the people for every tittle of the Scripture is ours and we own them and do not deceive the people from the truth but such as you call Ministers which make a trade upon the Scriptures and lead people into darkness with your sences upon the Scriptures we deny And so here thou a t found the adder giving sences and meanings according to the Spirit as thou sayest and here thou makest it manifest that it is thy self that interprets and not the Spirit that gave forth the Scriptures which Spirit opens them again Object And thou sayest the sufficiency of the Scriptures do build men up to salvation Rep. Here thou set'st the Scripture before God and Christ who is the Saviour and perverts it had'st thou said they were able to make one wise to salvation through Faith in Christ Jesus but there thou art diminishing as to say the Scripture is sufficient to build men up to salvation Que. 4. Whether you have an infallible judgment to judg of things eternal yea or no Ans Thou sayest every man is darkness Rep. And there thou art in thy first estate who hath uttered forth many words to this Query out of thy confused mind Obj. Thou sayest them that the Apostles said knew all things which was but an hyperbolical expression and did import only much knowledg to be in them Rep. Here I charge thee in the presence of the Lord to be a perverter of the Apostles words and one that addeth John speaks no such word as hyperbolical therefore let thou John's words alone Here all may see whether thou speakest by the spirit or no. Object And thou sayest they that had received the Vnction had not an infallible judgment Rep. And here let all people take notice what thou speak'st from and yet thou sayest though they had the Spirit which if they have the Spirit to judg withal the judgment is infallible and thou belyes them and wrongs them for they knew the truth and that there was no lye of it and then they had an
your preaching tend thither and you say you do not preac● that Christ which you have seen with your bodily eyes for Christ is in heaven and not in earth not any other that lives upon earth hath heard of him and seen him Rep. O thou dark Sot Does any see Christ with their carnal eyes and know him Was it not said to the Apostle that flesh and bloud had not revealed it unto him w●en he said Thou art the Christ the Son of the living God and from this Revelation thou hast cleared thy self Ob. And thou sayest That Christ is in heaven and not in earth Rep. And here thou hast cleared thy self to be a Reprobate Ob. And thou sayest How shall they preach except they be sent Rep. And before thou denied'st as hearing any voice from heaven and denied immediate inspiration and how dost thou exalt Christ and knows him not and the framing of a Christ shall stand for thy own condition who art without and Saul seeing Samuel indeed saw the Devil and talked with him and had fellowship with him but saw not Samuel Ob. And thou sayest You do not give your assurance but you conceive Rep. Let all people see if thy preaching be not phancy and no assurance and to be scattered among the proud who live in their imaginations and conceivings and hast cleared thy self from the eternal Spirit and canst give no testimony of that which was from the beginning Ob. And thou sayest Thou givest not thine own assurance but you conceive and speak of the Apostles assurance Rep. Let the Apostles assurance alone for that we own who wi●ness assurance but deny thy conceivings Query 10. Whether you have this word which was from the beginning and this Life manifest unto you which was to the Apostl●s and if it be why do you take a text from the Letter and preach from it and shew the people that letter Ans And thy answer is Th●s Word and this Life which is Christ made manifest in the flesh and thou sayest The design in this question is to draw all persons from all that is written to depend upon an unwritten word something within them the word from the beginning and is the Life and is manifest as they gave it out Rep. This word is owned among them you call Quakers which was from the beginning which all the Apostles spoke from which is immediate which thou hast cleared thy self from and shews that thou hast nothing but the letter which is death and feeds people with that Object And thou sayest this sort of men which hath the immediate word doth the divel shew his spite spleen and malice against the holy Scriptures Rep. Here I charge thee in the presence of the Lord to be a lyar and in that state thy self for where the immediate word is which was in the beginning which gave forth the Scriptures it owns every tittle of it again and many Scriptures hast thou wrested for the taking of a Text which Christ and the Apostles spoke of the fulfilling of the Scriptures and shewed the fulfilling of the Scriptures and to bring men to Christ out of the letter into that thing the letter speaks of that they might not live in the oldness of the letter but in the newness of the spirit Ob. And thou sayest you take a text because the whole w●ll of God and mind of Christ is left you in letters which is now left us in words and letters in the Evangelists and Apostles writings and so you take a text from the letter and if the Gospel be hid it is hid from you that are lost whom the God of the world hath blind●d the mind of them that believe not Rep. Here thou speak'st thou know'st not what for if all should have been written which Christ spoke forth the world could not contain the books that might have been written of him and many could speak of his word but had not his mind therefore they persecuted him as thou dost and there thou shewest thy self to be him whom the God of the world hath blinded the mind who hath the letter of the Gospel but not that which it speaks of the Gospel the glad tydings the Son that was given but that is without thee and the letters of it thou hast but not the Gospel Object And thou sayest Saints do not as yet see Christ and yet Abraham saw his daies Rep. What confused stuff is this that comes out of thy bo●tle these are thy Saints which do not see Christ and how dost thou exalt him The Saints witness Christ in them the mystery the hope of glory but thou hast cleared thy self from this Christ from this mystery from this hope of glory to be a Reprobate and an Anti-christ and from the faith of Abraham Query 11. And shew me where the Prophets did take a text and preach from it but only Christ read a place and said it was fulfilled who said he was anoynted to preach and which of you can witness you are anoynted to preach by the living God yea or no Ans And in thy answer to this Query thou speak'st whom God calls out to be to the body in place of eyes to guide and direct them and before you denyed as hearing any such voyce as from God Reply Here all people may see thy folly and thou dost not say that you are anointed to preach by the living God or how canst thou who hast denyed his voyce or immediate inspiration Obj. And thou sayest the Prophets did take no text but laid the foundation Reply And here thou hast cleared thy self from the Prophets Christ the Foundation and though Christ did read who fulfilled the Prophets who prophesied of him and Moses who wrote of him for he was the substance and the end and though they had Synagogues and Temple and Sabbath Day to read Moses the Law and the Prophets When Christ was come and sacrificed up and who believed and received him had received the end of the Law the end of the Prophets and the end of the Sabbath and they went into the Synagogues shewing the people the substance of what they had read and to bring them of the Temple the Sabbath days and observing of times which in all thy words thou clearest thy self from that life and doctrine but would keep people in observing of days and times and places and so shews thy self in the dark generation living long in a text and not witnessing it fulfilled as Christ did Obj. And thou sayest Christ might have discoursed of a subject many months who came to fulfil what was written of him Reply Here you would make Christ like thy self who art unlearned discoursing with thy carnal mind upon that which was given forth by an Eternal Spirit who art for death and destruction Quer. 12. Tell me why you sing Davids Conditions and Experiences in Moeter and when you read them hats you put on and when you sing them hats you put off Ans And thy
for utter c●nfusion and d●struction and that which thou sayest thou hast confu●ed shall confound thee and thy gene●ation and all who are in the l●ght may see thy pride and hypocrisie And as thou sayest Our speech bewrayeth us but it is made manifest to all who is in any measu e e●lightened that thy sp●ech bewrayeth thee what generation then and art of which never heard the voyce o● God that thou knows not the Spirit of God where it is mad● man fest neither art thou guided by the light of thy conscience but art warring for the Devil against the Lamb and ●he Saints but the Lamb shal● get the victory over such beasts and false prophets as thou art Prayses be to our God the living God for evermore And so grace and peace be mul●iplied among all those that love the Lord Jesus Christ A Reply to a Book which is full of lies and slanders set forth by Higgison a Priest in Westmerland which he writ against the Northern Quakers as he calls them FIrst Thou gives an Epistle to the CHRISTIAN READER Reply O how dar'st thou mention Christians who appears so openly to be an enemy to them For when one Thomas Holme came to thee to speak to thee in the Steeple-house he was cruelly beat and his clothes rent and torn and set in the stocks and this was by thy Church as thou calls it and is this thy conferring with Christians And thou sayest in thy Epistle Thou would'st not have the Government of this Nation to read thy Book not as lying lines And how hast thou proved thy self to be a lyar in thy own Congregation who saith you do not persecute and besides hundred of places more I might mention where they have been and are daily imprison●d and stockt And in thy seventh Page to thy Book thou gives to the Reader a story of one Fox as going to a Gentlemans house in Cumberland with one or two more men and one of the house came to them and asked to know their business and they asked if the Gentleman of the house was within and called him by name O Higgison thou lyar and slanderer I charge thee to mention that mans name which him which thou calls Fox as thou sayest went to in Cumberland him that thou calls Fox had not been in Cumberland then And here I charge thee ●n the presence of the living God to be a lyar who art a publish r of lyes who art impudent and brazen and hardened in thy deceit And thou sayest the Gentleman took them aside and they told him they were sent to him from God Reply And as for the Gentleman's taking him that thou calls Fox aside it is a lye and a slander there was never no such thing And as for saying that he heard a voice that is ano her of thy lyes and slanders And as he whom thou calls Fox calling for a little water at the Gentlemans house Thou lyar here I charge thee to be a lyar again he was never there And as for him thou calls Fox going to an Ale-house and desiring the host to provide meat O thou slanderer and lyar here I charge thee in the presence of the living God to be no Minister of Christ but in iniquity And let the Gentleman in Cumb●rland witness against thee And le● th● Reader of thy Book read with a single eye and he will see it is come out of the generation of lyars a●d will be ashamed that ever such as thou should be mentioned to be a Min ster of Jesus Christ who sued one of thy hearers for two-pe●ce And Higgison who art for destruction in the lake that burns where the portion of all lyars is to that in thy conscience I speak which shall be a witness against thee and condemn thee Here are more of thy lyes and slanders that thou casts upon him whom thou calls Fox And th u P●iest Higgison saith that he cr●pt into the Countrey whom thou calls Fox O thou lyar and slanderer thy Book is nothing but lyes and slanders and flatteries let all the Country witness against thee to be a lyar who art the envious man that art sowing thy seed but thy seed is seen and known And O thou Higgison thou filthy lyar and slanderer of him whom thou calls Fox in the eighteenth Page that thou gives to the Reader as a filthy lying slander which shall turn upon thy self the earth may open and swallow thee up quick Thou sayest that some Person of quality brought this thy lying story to Kendal which thou hast caused to be put in print and told what disorder he had caused in the Country and here thou envious man art sowing thy wicked seed lyes and slanders who art one of the Devils servants but thou art discovered and shalt proceed no further as in thy Book thou hast declared thy self to be more openly known then thou was before though thou was known to the children of light before And thou Higgison saith He was in a certain house together with many of his Disciples thou slanderer who makes di●●urbance in the Country and so this shall return upon thy self And another lying story thou tells of the Devils discovering him to be of his Vessel and Agent and which caused many of his followers to desert him as he was speaking in a certain house procur●d Foxes apprehension and imprisonment in Nottingham Castle till he ran away with his Keeper O thou slanderer and lyar who art of the Devil and for the Lake they in Nottingham Town and Shire will witness against thee he that was with his Keeper whom thou calls George Fox was the Sheriff He was kept at his house And of saying he was taken at a house and carried to prison to Nottingham Castle these are slanders and lyes and they in Nottingham will witness thee to be a Minister of the Devil who ministers lies Thou Priest Higgisson O thou impudent Him that thou calls George Fox as saying he run away with his Keeper from Nottingam Castle they all in Nottingam Town will witness again thee to be a lyar and slanderer And him that thou calls George Fox was hayled out of a Steeple-house to prison for speaking to a Priest of thy generation who spake lyes as thou dost And here thou Higgisson I charge thee in the presence of the living God to be a lyar who art a vessel for Satan to dwell in And thou lyar and slanderer who saith he was accused for sorce●y but sorcery is thy own for he is of God and in him is no gu●le but upright godly and a just man and innocent And thou Higgisson hast written forth many lyes and stories and fables and so shews thy self to be one of those that the Prophet prophesies of who art given up to follow fables and lyes who hath uttered forth thy lying stories but thou and a●l thy lyes are for the lake that burns and the fi e and the pit eternally and the