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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A73011	Looke beyond Luther: or An ansvvere to that question, so often and so insultingly proposed by our aduersaries, asking vs; where this our religion was before Luthers time? VVhereto are added sound props to beare vp honest-hearted Protestants, that they fall not from their sauing-faith. By Richard Bernard, of Batcombe in Sommersetshire.	Bernard, Richard, 1568-1641.	1623 (1623)	STC 1956.3; ESTC S123041	43,757	64

together with vs yet are deadly enemies to the effectuall operation thereof denying the power of it and deriding such as striue to liue strictly and would expresse the liuely vertue and force of it What diuisions what varietie of sects and schismes haue and doe yet hinder the growth of our Religion And lastly these last Enemies of it the Papists vnder that Antichrist of Rome against whom if God himselfe had not fought and vpheld our Religion they had ere this vtterly extinguished it And who will denie this that seriously considereth our simplicitie and their deepe policie our too much distractions their strong combination our small strength their great power our meane estates their abundance of wealth and treasures our more then supine carelesnesse their continuall watchfulnesse and daily endeuours which possibly Satan can put into their hearts to root out our holy profession as by their cruell Inquisition mercilesse persecution barbarous Massacres horrible Treasons vniust Inuasions bloody Warres the neuer to be forgotten Gunpowder plot killing of Kings faithlesse and treacherous dealings playing fast and loose with vs by lying Equiuocations and mentall Reseruations in all couenants promises and oathes besides their shamelesse belying our persons foule and false taxing vs of errours and heresies imputed to our doctrine and Religion Libertinisme Atheisme and other abominations their flattering of Kings and suggestion of falshoods of disloyaltie against such as they find best affected to our Religion their politike framing of their religion for worldly respects to euery mans humor to entangle the sooner mens minds to get the more to them besides all those hellish deuices before mentioned in the first argument among which is the corrupting of Fathers and the Writings of learned men both old and new that so we might be altogether destitute of all humane testimonies to witnesse with vs or any helpe of man but to be left to stand as indeed wee doe by the hand of God the onely Author of our Faith and Religion and the onely blessed Preseruer of the same hitherto before Luther was borne who now also euen in these troublesome times doth keepe it on foote against all the power and policie of our Enemies praysed bee his holy Name for euer and euer Amen If our Aduersaries thinke that here is all that can be said for vs or that onely we can thus prooue our Religion they are much deceiued for much more may bee said and also otherwise euen by Historie may our Religion and the Professours be shewed at large This for the present is onely to confirme such as in our Church truly feare God and make conscience of their wayes for such doers of Gods will shall know whether this doctrine be of God or no Ioh. 7.17 THE AVTHORS FARTHER HELPE TO stay the honest-hearted Protestant from Apostacie WEl-disposed Reader thou hast an answer to the question Where our Religion was before Luther If yet further they aske thee Where were the Professors thereof also before this time Thou mayst thence shape them this answere Euen where the Apostles and Apostolicall men did teach it and where Saints professed it and Martyrs dyed for it It is not so difficult a matter as they would make the world beleeue to bring forth in euery Age the Professours of this our Christian Faith A harder and a more impossible taske is it for them to prooue from Christ and his Apostles who and where the persons were that in euery Age made an intire profession of euery point which now this their present Romish Church teacheth and practiseth We will doe the former if they will faithfully performe this latter They haue set out as they call it a Catalogue of chiefe Pastors Generall Councels and Catholike Professors of which they much glory seducing therewith the simple and vnaduised They doe begin with Christ then follow they on with Saint Peter and other Bishops of Rome on the one side on the other they place the Virgin Marie Iohn Baptist Saint Iohn the Apostle with other Apostles and Euangelists then they reckon vp Christian Churches as the Romans Corinthians Galatians and the rest to whom Saint Paul and Saint Peter wrote and so they run on along to the end Now this is it that thou shouldest demand of them and put them to proue whether Christ and his Apostles taught and all the rest there mentioned did learne and practise all that the Church of Rome now doth If they can shew this but in the first hundred of yeeres professe thou to be satisfied and not to require farther after a continuall succession in the Ages following Presse this home to them stand onely vpon this this is plaine dealing to begin with them where they begin And if they will not indeuour to satisfie thee in this certainely the Catalogue of the names of Christ of his Apostles and the rest in the Primitiue Church are put onely in the forefront to coozen thee if they can For will they begin it with Christ Saint Peter and the rest and yet not proue them of their present Religion If they can why doe they it not Why doe they seeke to put it off If they cannot why claime they these for the authors and maintainers of this their present Romish Religion I say their present Romish Religion because there is a great difference betweene the Religion once at Rome in the Apostles dayes and the Religion of Rome now that of the Church then this of the Court and faction there now And here I pray thee wel vnderstand this one thing to wit what they meane by their Religion as we also doe by our Religion we neither side took it only for that wherein we both do agree but chiefely because of the distinct differences thereof either from the other this obserue that thou mayst not be deceiued by the Catalogue And the better to cleare thy iudgement therein let them shew thee that Iesus Christ that also his Apostles with the rest in the first hundred of yeeres taught not onely that wherein wee and they doe agree for so they gaine nothing to themselues but the Catalogue therein serues for vs aswell as for them but also that they taught and obserued all their now present differences from vs as for example let them shew that then was taught and the Churches learned I. To picture the holy Trinitie to make Images to worship them to adore the Virgin Marie as our Lady and the Queene of Heauen also to pray vnto other Saints and Angels and to adore their Images and Reliques II. To hold the Scriptures to be imperfect and obscure that the Apocryphall bookes were of diuine Authoritie the Latine Translation was to bee authenticall that Traditions were to be added to perfit the Scriptures concerning necessarie matters of saluation that the authoritie of the holy Scriptures doth depend vpon the authoritie of the Church that they are not to be made so free as to be read and studied of all without licence III.

TO THAT QVESTION SO often and so insultingly proposed by our Aduersaries asking vs Where this our Religion was before Luthers time IT is a common question and often propounded by Papists in an insulting manner ouer vs Where our Religion was before Luthers time As though wee could not answere to the demand nor fetch our Religion from any more ancient or better Author but they are deceiued in both And that I may not be tedious in prefacing I answer I. It was and is written and contained in the holy Scriptures the Canonicall Books of the old and new Testament II. The same hath been and is written in the hearts of Gods people such as the Lord from time to time effectually hath called according to euerie mans measure as they haue bin taught it and learned it out of those books of holy Scripture For this must we know that no other doctrine of Christian Religion was or is written in mens hearts by Gods Spirit then that which the same Spirit inspired the Pen-men of the Scriptures to write in those Bookes The necessarie truths of doctrine therein contained as God had promised hath he written in the hearts of his people Ier. 31.33 34. 2. Cor. 3.3 And for these ends that they might know God and know him to be their God and they his people Ier. 31.33 34. that they might make profession thereof and obediently set themselues to the practice of that his blessed will Ezech. 11.19 20. 36.26 27. III. That it was also written in learned mens labours agreeing with those holy Bookes as they found the truth therein taught vnto them by the Prophets and Apostles So as the doctrine of our Religion is no other then that which the Scriptures doe teach the Church and true People of God haue beleeued and professed nor no other then that which is to be found in the writings of y e holy ancient Fathers and of learned men before euer Luther was borne That our Religion was thus before Luthers time I proue by these ensuing reasons I. Argument From holy Scriptures wherein our Religion is written and taught in euery point THat Religion which is in all and euerie point thereof written and prescribed in holy Scriptures the Canonical books of the old and new Testament was before Luthers time For the Scriptures were written many hundred yeeres before Luther was in beeing and the Pen-men thereof had a care to practise the same But this our present Religion in all and euerie point thereof wherein we differ from our Aduersaries is written and prescribed in the holy Scriptures the Canonicall bookes of the old and new Testament as is in euery particular point prooued exactly by those of our side And therefore was it before Luthers time The Minor I thus prooue I. By the publike Records of our Church here at home as the publike authorized Catechisme shorter and larger by the booke of Homilies by the book of Articles and our booke of Common-prayer Out of which wherein soeuer we differ from our Aduersaries nothing is found besides as wanting warrant of Scripture much lesse any thing contrarie thereunto but euery thing grounded vpon and fully agreeing with the same II. By Gods Spirit the Author of the Scriptures which doth further our Religion in the hearts of the people through the reading and interpreting thereof which the Spirit of God would not doe if our Religion were not that which the Scriptures teach For would the Author of the one approue of the other if they were not both one If hee should further a Religion contrarie to the Scripture hee should be contrary to himselfe allowing and making good that in mens hearts by inward operation which he hath disallowed by the Scriptures which are of his diuine inspiration It is euident to all that are read in the Scriptures that they condemne all Heathenish al Heretical and Idolatrous Religion likewise all will-worship all vaine inuentions of men the seruing of God by humane traditions by the precepts and doctrines of men so as if our Religion were any such Gods Spirit would not grace it nor so knit mens harts vnto it nor so effectually worke by it in mens consciences nor so perswade vnto it as he daily doth by the Scriptures If they shall denie that Gods Spirit doth any such thing as we suppose I would faine know of them what other spirit it possibly may be that doth so leade men to esteeme so much the Scriptures doth excite men to the studie of them and to make them the onely rule of doctrine and life to heare belieue rest and delight in them and so to worship God onely as herein he requireth to be worshipped and to reiect whatsoeuer is not warranted by them in euery necessarie point of faith And that onely vpon this perswasion that the Scriptures are Gods word that they are endited by his Spirit and written by his holy Prophets and Apostles If this be not the Spirit of God which doth thus magnifie the holy Scriptures in the heart of euery sound Christian what spirit then is it Certainely it must bee either the Spirit of God or of Man or of the Deuill But neither of these two latter therefore the former I. It is not the spirit of man that can and doth thus worke for first the spirit of man perceiueth not the things of God till Gods Spirit acquaint him with them Secondly they be foolishnesse vnto him Thirdly his wisdome is enmitie with God so as Gods wisdome in diuine mysteries and mans wisdome can neuer agree in one Fourthly the spirit of man sauoureth the things of the flesh and not of the Spirit of God Fifthly his heart is continually euil till he be regenerate Sixthly and lastly it is euidently knowne by too much miserable experience that man loueth not the studie of the Scriptures he cannot delight in them hee cannot away to frame his life after them euery one that hath any sparke of diuine knowledge knoweth this to bee true from his owne naturall corruption both in himselfe and others also Now can any reasonable-minded man thinke that such an auerse spirit as is in man so disaffecting the holy Scriptures and the studie thereof that it can be that Spirit which perswadeth and draweth men contrary to it corrupt selfe to embrace that Religion which is grounded vpon the Scriptures and to presse to the obedience thereof Yea can it bee mans spirit that worketh loue to such a Religion which so opposeth mans corruption as the worldly wise Politician derideth it the pleasurable man hateth it the greedy of gaine cannot abide to bee ruled by it and the haughtie spirit which hunteth after the pride of life hath it in great contempt so as none in very deed but onely such as doe denie themselues doe forsake the world and can bee well contented to take vp their crosse and follow Christ either can or will embrace the same II. It is not the spirit of Satan For although hee

perfection or of merit but to beleeue the forgiuenesse of sinnes And in reading the Law truly vnderstood it doth cause a mans conscience euen in the best to acknowledge himselfe guiltie I might here goe thorow many other points which they teach to which from either plaine Scriptures or from the Catechisme or from these considerations thou maist make answere in thine owne defence But yet for all this though thou also hast gotten helpe to stand for thy selfe beware of Seducers run not easily into disputes with them but rather put them ouer to learned men to be answered It is not good for Eue for to fall into conference with the subtill Serpent Be bold vpon these grounds with ordinarie Papists if they will attempt to set vpon thee but consider thy abilitie presume not aboue thy measure continue in Gods Word and the Lord will vphold thee To whose blessed guide and Fatherly protection I commit thee Pray we all continually FINIS 1. Cor. 2.11 1. Cor. 2.14 Rom. 8.7 Verse 5. * Origen vpon Numb Tertul. de resur Carnis Epiphaen de Haeres lib. 1. cap. 23 24 38. Irae li. 1. cap. 23. Tertul. de praescript A●bana orat 2. contra Arianos Ier. 36. 2. Thes 2. In the Popes Bull before the Catechisme of the Councell of Trent a De Eccles pa. 308. b Apol. Catho cap. 66. c Lib. de Antichrist c. 24. d In his second pillar of Pop. e Against Hart. cap. 8. diuis 4. pa. 567.568.569 572. f Ca. 1. vers 25. pa. 200 Lib. de Antichr cap. 6. to cap. 33. Lib. de eccles cont 2. quaest 5. pa. 300. 308. Obiect Answ Obiect Answ De continu statu Ecclesiae See Doct. Hall his peace of Rome In his Symphonia Cathol In his reformed Catholike Cambden in Brit. p 40.157 * Harison before Hollins Chron. Midleton in his Papistomastix pag 202. See the Protestants Apol. vnder Brerelys name Brerely his Appeale Trac 1. Sect. 2. pag. 69. Beda histor lib. 2. cap. 2. Beda lib. 2. ca. 4. Bish Vshers letter pag. 80.81.82.83 Galfridus Monumentisis Centur 6 p. 689. Beda lib. 3. Hist cap. 3.6 Ibi. c. 21.22.24 Bish Vsher in his late Epistle added to Sir Chr. Sybthorps booke Se Archb. Parker his booke de anti Brit. cap. 18. Se Bishop Morton his Catholike Appeale lib. 1. cap. 2. sect 8. pag. 11. Ibidem lib. 1. ca. 12. sec 1.2 See Catol Test veritat pag. 26. to 69. last edition 1608. See the Epist in the booke of the Lawes of the Saxon Kings in the Saxons language Also in Fox Acts and Monum fol. 69. For the authoritie of this Epistle I take it as they approue of it a witnesse good against themselues See for all these in Cat. Test verit lib. 6. p. 558. See for these Bish Mortons Catho Appeal l. 1. c. 2.3.4.4 Doct. Feild of the Church b. 5. cap. 34 Catol Test verit lib. 1. p. 93. See his Epistle before named Ier. 6.14 The Papist cannot make a true Catalogue from Christ of their present Religion What to demand of them and to presse them vnto What are the things which in their Catalogue from Christ they must proue those in the first Age to haue maintained Protestants are of the Catholike Church though no Romanists In Can. 3. de bapt Part. 1. Act. 9. cap 10. q. 8. What sorts are out of the Church Protestants no Heretikes In his booke of equiuocation Part. 1. Art 9. cap. 10. q. 1. Protestants hold no impious opinions condemned for heresie Protestants are not conuicted of obstinacie See the Historie of the Councell of Trent Protestants do not neglect the authority of the Catholike Church Protestants are no Schismatikes Eph. 3.20 Let them answer the books which prooue her the great Whore Babylon and the Pope Antichrist if any denie these things In summa part 2. cap. 39. de Schismate Reuel 18.4 See for these Catal. Test verit pa. 27. to 70. in the last Edition 2. Ch. 11.13 14 Protestants not excommunicate persons How a man must be qualified which wil continue in the truth Prou. 1. 2. Thes 2.10 11 12. Ioh. 7.17 Iam. 1.5 Luk. 11.13 By what helpes to oppose the aduersaries Plaine Scriptures Aug. l. 2. de doct Chr. cap. 6. Chrysost 3. hom in 2. Thes Lib. 4. de verbo Dei non scripto cap. 11. The parts of the Catechisme Nine considerations Obserue two things in the aduersaries dealing with thee Three things beyond ordinarie mens capacitie which they must take heed they be not deceiued by Ordinarie me● cannot iudge of Councels and why Not of the allegation of Fathers and why Not of the allegation of the Churches custome and why Against the Popes headship Against his vnerring spirit Against transubstantiation Exod. 4.3 7.10 20 21 24. 8.17 Ioh. 2.9 10. Luke 24.39 The euill of the doctrine of transubstantiation Against Purgatorie Against Images and their worship Against praying to Saints Matth. 6. Against the Romanists condemning all that are not of their Church Against their vrging as necesary to make a Catalogue of our professors in all Ages Against their error of veniall sinnes Against mans power to doe well Against their error of mans abilitie to fulfil the Law