that Christ offered himselfe Hebr. 7. 17. and thorough the eternall spirit he offered himselfe chap. 9. 14. which Ambrose vnderstandeth of the holy Ghost Say also that the Apostles ignorantly confound the diuine nature of Christ and the holy Ghost But that it may fully appeare who is both the ignorant and errant too to vse his owne words what a dangerous and suspitious speach is this taking the word spirit for soule I might haue diuided Christ and his spirit without all suspition of ignorance and his imputation of error 3. b. p. 97. yea and dare any presumptuous spirit diuide that which God hath inseperably vnited the deitie and humanitie to the which belongeth the soule 〈◊〉 spirit in one person in Christ. Our Sauiour said vpon an other occasion Let none put asunder that which God hath coupled together Math. 19. 6. which rule holdeth in generall that it is no lesse presumption to diuide the humane soule from the person of Christ which is hypostatically vnited for euer I may here say with Hierome Nescio quid veneni in syllabis latet I can not tell what poison lieth hid vnder these syllables But to returne his owne words it may be that these things haue slipt from you thorough heate of contention rather then perswasion of heart 2. b. p. 207. yet I say againe with Hierome Non bonae suspicionis est cum in eodem sensu verba dissentiunt it is no good suspition when in the saâ—e sense the words doe dissent If he hold the hypostaticall vnion of Christs soule and bodie with his Godhead why doth he in words diuide them 4. Concerning the fourth position which he calleth straunge the words of the Replyer are these the ioyes of heauen may be truly though not fully felt in this life whosoeuer counteth this position strange sheweth himselfe indeede a straunge fellow and a straunger from such true feeling of heauenly ioyes What thinketh he of those three Peter Stephen and Paul whome Ambrose giueth in instance Petrus in monte Domini aspiciens gloriam Christi noluit descendere Stephanus cum Iesum vidit lapidari non formidabat Paulus raptus in Paradisum vsum proprij non sentiebat corporis Peter in the mount of the Lord beholding the glorie of Christ would not descend Stephen when he sawe Iesus feared not to be stoned Paul being rapt into Paradise did not perceiue the vse of his owne body Thinketh hee that they euen in earth felt not the true ioyes of heauen though not so fully as they enioy it now Yea this wrangler himselfe confesseth vpon these words of Peter with our eies we saw his maiestie that they enioyed the sight of his glorious maiestie in this life Could he then be so forgetfull as to call it a straunge position that the true ioy 〈◊〉 heauen may be felt in this life is it not a true heauenly ioy to see the Maiestie of God how say you Sir Medler speake out is it not your owne mouth doth condemne you What if the Replyer had said with Augustine that heauen may be in this life in the soule of the righteous or with Ambrose that the spirit of grace maketh the regenerate heauenly and celestiall he would also haue thought in his vnheauenly blindnes that he had spoken straungely also for where heauen is and men are become heauenly what should let them but to haue a feeling also of heauenly ioyes The Recrimination Now let vs turne aside a little to take a view of his blinde errors 1. He holdeth that the originall text of the Scriptures is corrupt in these words And say we must goe to the originals I will runne with you to those fountaines whose pure waters if the foule feete and vncleane hands of some had not corrupted c. there could neuer be so many grosse and filthie errors drawne and deriued thence 1. b. p. 26. 2. The Syriake together with the Greeke he holdeth to be the originall tongues of the new Testament ibid. whereas there can be but one originall tongue to the rest if hee graunt the Greeke be the true originall then the Syriake is not which was translated out of the Greeke So in an other place he reprooueth the Replyer for reiecting the Syriake as contrarie to the originall 3. He preferreth the Latine text before the originall Greeke Act. 2. 24. reading the sorrowes of hell for the sorrowes of death as the originall Greeke hath saying I see no cause why I should not approoue the old Latine text 3. b. p. 30. so also 2. b. p. 154. shewing hereby of what house he commeth and whose disciple he is iustifying the Latine translation against the originall of the which further he thus vnreuerently writeth As for that vulgar Greeke now extant whether it be the true Authentike originall or no is a question because it is neither the most auncient nor that which was most vsed in the Auncient Church and beside that it is not free from corruption in diuers places 3. b. p. 14. What could be spoken more to the derogation of the authoritie of the Scriptures then thus to abase that originall wherein the Apostles themselues did write And in this prophane and little better then Popish assertion he hath vttered three great vntruths that the Greeke originall which we now haue is not the most auncient that it was not most vsed in former times that it is in some places corrupt none of these slaunders of the text shall he euer be able to iustifie 4. He calleth the booke of Ecclesiasticus which the Church of England counteth among the Apocryphall bookes the word of God 2. b. p. 70. and in the next page before he calleth it Scripture I thinke it fit to ioyne Scripture with Scripture making mention of Ecclesiasticus And that we may see he is no chaungeling in an other place hauing alleadged a place out of Ecclesiasticus he addeth by which Scriptures it is plaine 2. b. p. 136. Such a diuine as he is such is his Scripture how audacious is this fellow that contrarie to the iudgement and determination of this Church dare make Ecclesiasticus a booke of Canonicall Scripture 5. The question beeing demanded why the soule may not be taken for his that is Christs whole person as well as holy is vnderstood to be his flesh answere is made because cause it that is the soule is no part at all of the whole person while it remaineth seperated from the body for of these two the whole person consisteth when they are ioyned together liuing c. 2. b. p. 162. Where seeing the demaund is made concerning Christs soule the answere containeth two manifest errors or rather heresies the one that the soule seperated from the body was no part of Christs person which sauoureth strongly of the heresie of the Apollinarists that made the man Christ without a soule the other that the soule
Loidoromastix THAT IS A SCOVRGE FOR A RAYLER CONTAINING A FVLL AND SVFFICIENT ANSWER VNTO the Vnchristian raylings slaunders vntruths and other iniurious Imputations vented of late by one RICHARD PARKES master of Arts against the author of LIMBOMASTIX Wherein three hundred raylings errors contradictions falsifications of Fathers corruptions of Scripture with other grosse ouersights are obserued out of the said vncharitable discourse by ANDREVV WILLET Professor of Diuinitie Iob 31. 35 36. Though mine aduersarie should write a booke against me would I not take it vpon my shoulder and binde it as a crowne vnto me August cont Petilian lit lib. 3. c. 8. Nec malam conscientiam sanat praeconium laudantis nec bonam vulnerat convitiantis opprobrium Neither doth the commendation of the praiser heale an euill conscience nor the reproach of a Reviler wound a good Printed by CANTRELL LEGGE Printer to the Vniversitie of CAMBRIDGE 1607. And are to be sold in Pauls Churchyard by RICHARD BANKEVVORTH at the signe of the Sunne TO THE MOST REVEREND FATHER IN GOD RICHARD by the Diuine prouidence Archbish. of CANTERBVRIE Primate and Metropolitan of all England and of his Maiesties most Honourable priuie Counsell AVgustine Right Reuerend Father when a certaine young man of no good fame had accused one Bonifacius a Minister or Presbyter of a great crime they both beeing of his owne Colledge and societie though he gaue more credit vnto the Presbyter yet the matter hanging in suspense and doubt he sent them both for the more full manifestation of the truth vnto the tombe of Felix the Martyr for they had a great opinion of such places in those daies My case at this time in some things is not much vnlike who hauing beene a Minister and Presbyter of this Church and a poore Preacher and writer of the same now these twentie yeares am at the last by one of obscure fame and name accused before your Grace of heresie blasphemie and charged with the deniall of an Article of the faith In which accusation as I doubt not but that your Gr. opinion is as indifferent toward me whose Parents education studies and trauailes you haue knowne these many yeares as Augustines was toward Bonifacius yet herein my case is better that I doe referre my selfe to the iudgement of a Reuerend Prelate liuing and am not sent to the triall of the dead Archidamus not much vnlike to the former examplâ—â— beeing chosen an arbitrator betweene two that were at variance brought them into the Temple of Minerva and hauing first bound them with an oath to stand to his sentence decreed that they should not depart thence before they had compounded the controuersie Crates Thebanus is said to haue vsed to resort vnto faâ—â—â—lies that disagreed and with perswasions of peace to haue adiudged their strifes So your Honour not so much by choice an arbitrator as by office and place a Iudge in these causes will bring vs both I trust into the Temple of GOD there to be tried by the Scriptures And as Crates endeauour was to pacifie families so I hope your Gr. care is to settle this Church in peace approouing that godly saying of Basilius 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Basil. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that nothing is so proper to a Bishop as to be a peacemaker Mine aduersarie hath had the prioritie of complaint and first filled your eares though not possessed them with his vntrue surmises for I doubt not but as Alexander when one of his familiar friends was traduced before him stopped one of his eares as reseruing it for him that was absent so your Gr. hath one eare left for me according to that rule of Seneca Vtrique parti actiones dares dares tempus non semel audires magis enim veritas elucet quo saepius ad manum venit to giue vnto both parties their action and to graunt them time to heare more then once for the oftner the truth cometh to hand to be scanned the more the light thereof appeareth Cicero against Antonie said quid mihi plenius quid vberius quam mihi pro me contra Antonium dicere But I may adde the third that it contenteth me that I may speake not onely for my selfe and against such an one but before your Gr. As for his accusations I feare them not mine owne conscience testifying with me I will as Iob saith take them vpon my shoulder and bind them as a crowne vnto me For as Cyprian well saith but vpon an other occasion nequaquaÌ„ sub hoc onere lassitudinem sed quietem inventuri vnder this burthen I shall not finde wearines but rest As Augustine also saith qui volens detrahit famae meae nolens addit mercedi he that willingly detracteth from my fame doth against his will adde to my reward But two things I doe not a little wonder at that he durst abuse your Gr. eares with such vntrue and vncharitable invectures in his Epistle and the Reader with such grosse and absurd ouersights in his booke In the first he chargeth me with a prophane and irreligious fact in denying an Article of the Christian faith with errors or heresies rather in â—ppugning the doctrine of the Church striking at some maine points of faith shaking the foundation it selfe and calling in question heauen and hell the diuinitie and humanitie yea the very soule and saluation of Christ our Sauiour himselfe so bardâ—ed in error that they neither she contrition of heart to repentance nor confession of mouth to obedience that neither Rhemist nor Romanist could lightly haue more disgraced the discipline and doctrine of the Church in diuers points To these iniurious slaunders my particular answer afterward followeth which were needlesse to be inserted here Thus much concerning my selfe I say in generall in Hieromes words Egone haereticus quare ergo me haeretics non amant am I an heretike wherefore then doe not heretikes loue me which in their rayling pamphlets and libells haue made me a marke to shoote at But that saying of Cyprian doth giue 〈…〉 Scias hoc semper opus esse diaboli vt servos dei 〈…〉 laceret vt qui conscientiae suae luce clarescunt alienis rumoribus sordidentur Know this to be alwaies the worke of the deuill to vexe the seruants of God with lies that they which are cleare in the light of their conscience should be blemished with other mens reports Now though he tooke vnto himselfe this libertie in this vnfriendly manner to disgrace me yet he might haue shewed more modestie then to outface me with such vntruths in your Gr. presence It is said that the actors of those wanton playes called Floralia Catone praesente agere recusaruÌ„t refused to play in Catoes presence and he might haue forborne to haue vttered his forged calumniations before so graue a personage But I trust it will fall out here as sometime
in the like case with Augustine Experti dicimus nam non crederemus multi à nobis mala consilia petunt consilia mentiendi consilia circumveniendi sed in nomine Christi nullus talis nos tentavit I speak saith he by experience otherwise I would not haue beleeued many doe aske of vs euill counsell counsell to lie counsell to circumvent but in the name of Christ none such hath tempted vs. Neither I hope hereafter your wisdome will giue passage or licence to such mens intemperate pennes to wound and gall their brethren yet had hee staied here onely in censuring the liuing and not proceeded to taxe the memorie of the dead it had been more tolerable that godly learned man Doctor Reynolds who is now at rest in the Lord is thus iniuriously handled by him and that since his Christian departure whereby grace may so happily worke in their hearts that where the truth hath beene heretofore frowardly excluded c. as though that worthy mā were either voide of grace or did frowardly exclude the truth nay he spareth not to charge him as guiltie of profane irreligious hereticall sacrilegious opinions of grosnes sophistrie profanenesse c. It is said of Themistocles that in his returne from battell seeing a dead body lying with iewels of gold hee thus spake to one that was with him Take thou away these things for thou art not Themistocles neither would this man if he had beene I say not of an heroicall spirit as Themistocles but of a sober and charitable spirit as euery good Christian haue stripped the dead of his well deserued ornaments in seeking to impaire his credit he doth but blemish and obscure his owne and sheweth himselfe to bee of those who as Hierome saith Hippocratis fomentis magis quam monitis nostris indigent had need rather of Hippocrates medicine then our admonition Now may it please your Reuerend Fatherhood to giue me leaue to offer vnto your view some of the principall contents of his booke by the tast whereof it will appeare what relish the rest haue by the smell of some of his flowers one may guesse what herbs grow in his garden as Hilarion said to Hesychius when a bunch of small pulse was brought them out of a Churles garden that hee could not abide the stinch thereof Doe you not feele saith he a filthy sauour and euen his couetousnesse to smell in the pulse So by this handfull which I shall gather out of his booke the euill sauour will be found of the rest 1. Hee much forgetting himselfe thus breaketh out beyond the limits of modestie charging me with folly hypocrisie falshood lying infidelitie impudency sawcinesse Machiauell sme Atheisme Heresie as particular instance is giuen in more then 80. railing speeches vsed against me and others so that I may say vnto him in Tullies words Neque qui tam illoto sermone vtitur vita honestior est It is not like that he which vseth such vncleane spech can be much honester in life 2. I haue obserued 22. slaunderous imputations wherof some are these that I would transforme the order of the Church into an Anarchie that their heads plot and their hands practise Babylonicall warre that he defendeth diuers things contrary to the truth of the Gospell that he iustifieth pestilent blasphemous heretiks against the learned and holy Fathers that he holdeth the flames of hell to be temporall that he called the blessed rootes of the Christian faith cursed rootes with such like 3. Instance is giuen of 34. vntruthes vttered by him As that he beleeueth I was one of those which writ the Letter to Master Hooker the writers whereof I knowe not to this day that I borrowe diuers things from Carlils booke which I neuer sawe that I fasten all the torments of hell vpon the blessed soule of Christ which I neuer thought that there is not one word through his booke that insinuateth any suspition of Limbus patrum whereas in the preface following the contrary is prooued directly in 20. seuerall places out of his booke 4. Among the errors which he is charged with to the number of 14. these specially are noted he iustifieth the Latine text against the originall Greeke in the newe Testament hee calleth the booke of Ecclesiasticus the word of God which the Church of England holdeth for one of the Apocryphall bookes artic 6. that the baptisme of infants is not to be found in Scripture by any expresse mention whereas the Church of England holdeth it to be most agreeable to the institution of Christ artic 27. He calleth these sound positions that the Scriptures alone are not compleate vnto saluation that mans will is naturally apt without grace to beleeue that mens naturall workes are acceptable to God which are directly opposite to the doctrine of the Church of England which holdeth the contrary that the holy Scripture containeth all things necessary to saluation artic 6. that man of his owne natural strength cannot turne and prepare himselfe to faith artic 10. that workes done before the grace of Christ are not pleasant to God artic 13. 5. Diuers harsh and vnsauorie speeches are laid vnto his charge as that hee applyeth those words of Christ to himselfe de bono opere lapidor I am stoned for a good worke that Christs conquest vpon the crosse was openly an ouerthrow and therefore no triumph if it were it was a triumph before victory that there is a most plaine distinction betweene the holy Ghost and Christ not in person onely but in his diuine nature These and the like assertions which he would haue tearmed blasphemies to the number of tenne are obserued out of his booke 6. Diuers points of arrogancy and vaine ostentation are obserued to the number of 13. whereof this is one that hee maketh his boast that my Lord of Winchester hath in his last booke much altered his iudgement concerning the place of Peter mooued by the reasons laid downe by me saith he and none but me wheras it is not true that that Reuerend learned father hath therein altered his iudgemēt at the lest it becam not him so to brag It might haue better beseemed the other if any such thing were to haue acknowledged it As August thus modestly writeth to Petrus a Bishop to a Presbyter Vellem rescriptis tuis quid te docuerit me docere absit enim vt erubescam à presbytero discere si tu non erubuisti à laico I would haue thee by thy rescript to teach me what taught you farre be it that I should be ashamed to learne of a Presbyter if you were not ashamed to learne of a lay man Further he chargeth the great English Bible which is authorised to be read in our Curches with error in the translation and with blasphemie in the annotations 7. Concerning the allegation of the Fathers I
haue shewed partly his ignorance in mistaking and misquoting them partly his vnfaithfulnes in vntrue alleadging them in 30. seuerall places as namely his ignorance in Cyril Hierome Augustine Tertullian also is strangely produced contrarie to his owne iudgement thus he dealeth also with the new writers as with Calvine Beza 8. Neither can the Scripture escape his vncleane fingers as instance is giuen in 26. places as loc 17. the Scripture saith He shall not preserue the vngodly Iob 36. 5. he readeth thou wilt not preserue loc 19. S. Iames saith which hath conuerted c. and shall saue a soule Iam. 5. 20. he readeth which conuerteth in the present and shall saue his soule adding his and he maketh as bolde with many places beside This it is for one to deale out of his element and to meddle beyond his skill for a professor of Grammer to take vpon him to teach Diuinitie He must needes stumble that walketh in darkenes and he can not be without error that is corrupt in iudgement Now is verified that saying of the wise man 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 There is that maketh himselfe rich and hath nothing As this man maketh himselfe skilfull in the tongues in the Scriptures in the Fathers and in what not in all these proclayming his ignorance Hierome spake it modestly of himselfe Fateor frater Heracli dum tui desiderijs satisfacere cupio oblitus sum pene mandati quo praecipitur onus supra vires tuas ne levaveris I confesse brother Heraclius while I satisfie thy desire that I had almost forgotten the commandement that biddeth Take not vp a burthen beyond thy strength But it is most true of him who hath vnbidden thrust his shoulders vnder a burthen that is like to crush him As Cleon was vnfit to lead an armie and Philopoimen to guide a navie and Hannibal to play the Orator so is this Grammarian to meddle with Diuinitie Euripides saying may well be applied to such 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a Carpenter thou art and yet dost not deale with carpenters worke Seneca well said Necesse est vt opprimant onera quae ferente maiora sunt c. nec accedendum eo vnde non sit liber regressuo Those burthens must needes presse to the ground which are greater then the bearer And it is not safe going thither whence there is no returne And so it falleth out to such according to the saying of Hierome Qui scribunt non quod inveniunt sed quod intelligunt dum alienos errores emendare nituntur ostendunt suos They write not what they finde but what they vnderstand and while they goe about to correct the errors of others they bewray their owne Now let me craue a little further leaue to adde some what concerning the former booke which is by him impugned and this written in defense thereof The first entituled Limbomastix I acknowledge to be mine and am not ashamed of any matter therein handled though for the manner it might haue beene more exact I confesse And for the publishing thereof this is my excuse or rather defense first that I was thereunto prouoked in particular againe I saw in his pamphlet maintained that Popish opinion of Limbus patrum which suspition the author can not auoide as it is at large declared in the Preface following who if he be sound in other points of Protestants doctrine it is well but then is he much wronged both in the opinion and reports of them that know him further that booke passed vnder the censure of a graue and learned writer of our Church and yet it was printed without my priuitie As touching mine opinion of CHRISTS Descension handled in that booke I will freely deliuer what I thinke first I beleeue the Article of the Descension to be a necessarie part of our faith and say with Calvine In the descent of Christ to hell there is no small force to the effect of our Redemption c. and it auaileth so much vnto the cheife summe of our redemption that it beeing pretermitted much will be lost of the fruit of Christs death thus much for the substance of the Article Secondly concerning the manner of Christs descension I doe hold and beleeue whatsoeuer can be prooued out of Scripture and truly collected from thence Thirdly yet I affirme that out of those three places Act. 2. 27. 1. Pet. 3. 19. Eph. 4. 9. the locall descension of Christs soule to hell can not necessarily be concluded And herein I affirme no more then other graue and learned writers of our Church haue done before me D. Fulke saith that the article of Christs descension is not grounded vpon the first text Bish. Bilson resigneth the second place and D. Fulke out of Theodoret sheweth that the third maketh not for the passing of Christ from place to place and so consequently belongeth not to his locall descension Fourthly I say notwithstanding and professe in the same words which I set downe before They which hold not the locall descent of Christs soule to hell should not condemne the other as Popish and superstitious men that are so perswaded They which affirme it ought not to account them as enemies or aduersaries to the truth that dissent from them therein He that thus writeth is farre from either hauing his head plotting or his hands practising Babylonicall warres as I am slaundered as I haue shewed before Fiftly I hold the Article of Christs descension as the Church of England propoundeth it As Christ died for vs and was buried so also it is to be beleeued that he went downe to hell in which words the Article of the descension is commended in generall to be held without any the determination of the sense as he that lately hath learnedly written dedicating his booke to your Gr. vpon the Articles of Religion by publike authoritie hauing deliuered diuers senses of this Article and especially these three 1. some hold that Christ descended as God onely not as man c. powerfully and effectually not personally 2. some as man onely either in bodie onely c. to the graue or in soule onely when he went to the place of the reprobate c. 3. as God and man in one person c. that he went as it were into hell when vpon the crosse and els where he suffered the torments c. Then he inferreth thus But till we know the natiue and vndoubted sense of this Article and mysterie of religion persist we aduersaries to them which say that Christ descended not into hell at all c. This was the summe of my first booke which beeing written without gall and bitternesse as he saith Ego sine iracundia dico vt omnia tamen non sine dolore I speake it without anger though not without griefe and the party being not knowne which was the author of that Pamphlet and so no man beeing
the Orator againe saith Pergit in me maledicta congerere quasi vero ei pulcherrime priora processerint quem ego inustum verissimis maledictorum notis tradam memoriae hominum sempiternae he proceedeth still to speake euill of me as though he had sped so well in the former whome branded with the true notes of disgrace I will deliuer ouer to the euerlasting memorie of men The 2. imputation of slaunders The accusation 1. The Replyer is noted as a slaunderer because he chargeth the Antagonist to vnderstand directly by Christs death hell 2. b. p. 36. 2. He calleth it a slaunder that he is charged by the Replyer to maintaine Limbus patrum 2. b. p. 40. The satisfaction or iustification 1. THe slaunderer himselfe mistaketh the Replyers wordes which are these he directly by his death vnderstandeth hell where this word his should by the Compositor haue beene made this which missing of a letter in the word this is an ouersight of the Printer as may be seene in other places of the Replyers workes the Printer therefore setteth his death the Author wrote this death neither of them hath Christs death as he misreporteth he is therefore the slaunderer himselfe 2. Whether he be not without any slaunder or false imputation directly a Limbist it hath beene sufficiently prooued before in the preface The recrimination That eloquent declamer said well Carere debet omni vitio qui in alterum paratus est dicere he should himselfe be voide of blame that speaketh against an other with what face then could the Accuser impute that to others which he falleth into himselfe and wracke himselfe vpon that rocke which he imagineth others to runne against for here followeth a rabble of his slaunderous accusations 1. Limbomastix is become Symbolomastix that is a scourger of the Creede epist. dedic p. 10. you cunningly went about to casheere an article of the Creede 2 b. p. 166. you still labour to discreede this Article of our faith 3. b. p. 3. 179. you still labour not onely to discredit it but to discreede it also 3. b. p. 198. And in diuers other places he laieth this grieuous imputation whereas the Replyer directly saith Who denieth the article of Christs discension 3. b. p. 197. 2. That he conueyeth an appeale frō his Maiestie and the Clergie vnto the Parlament epist. p. 10. whereas the Epistle Dedicatorie to the Parlament house is directly intituled to the Lords spirituall and temporall 3. That in Synopsis he striketh at some maine points of faith shaking the foundation it selfe and calling in question heauen and hell the diuinitie and humanitie yea the very soule and saluation of Christ himselfe epist. p. 6. all which are meere slaunders the author of Synopsis holdeth all these points more soundly then this slaunderous carper neither shal he be able to fasten any such imputation vpon that booke and therefore he glaunceth ouer with this generall fiction descending to no particular 4. That the Replyer holdeth this blasphemous paradox that Christ our Sauiour suffered in his sacred soule the hellish horror and paines of the damned epist. p. 10. whereas he misliketh this phrase of speech that Christ suffered the paines of the damned and wisheth it to be forborne Synops. p. 974. err 7. 5. That he maintaineth impious and hereticall paradoxes pref p. 2. seeketh to bring in a new Puritane heresie p. 43. that neither Rhemist nor Romanist could lightly haue more disgraced the discipline and doctrine of the Church epist dedic p. 10. how falsly he hath herein slaundered the Replyer his writings alreadie extant can giue sufficient testimonie both to this age present and to posteritie that he is as farre from all heresie and popish doctrine as this Reviler is from a sober and modest man 6. That he falleth to scourging the guides and gouernors of the Church 2. b. p. 2. transformeth the order thereof into an Anarchie p. 29. that he reiecteth Ecclesiasticall authoritie euer repining at that gouernment whereby you should be ruled p. 110. But what a reuerent opinion the Replyer hath of the calling of Bishops it appeareth both by his iudgement deliuered Synops. p. 241. l. 3. wherein he confesseth in the calling of Bishops in the reformed Churches such as the Church of England is somewhat no doubt to be diuine and Apostolicall and Antilog pref to the King p. 9. where he esteemeth the calling it selfe of Bishops as one of the profitable parts of the Church As also by his practise who hath dedicated diuerse bookes vnto certaine reuerend Bishops and Prelates more I thinke then any one writer of the Church in this age hath done beside which he hath done onely of dutie and loue toward them not beeing mooued thereunto by any present fruition or future hope of any preferment either receiued at their hands or expected 7. As for personall inueighing against the writers of our Church there is none that hath more peremptorily directed his penne or more presumptuously emploied his paines then your selfe 2. b. p. 7. There is none among all the impugners of the locall discent of Christs soule to hell who hath in more disgracefull manner reproached some of the best Preachers and writers of this English Church then you haue done 2. b. p. 81. he falsly and slaunderously condemneth the doctrine and teachers of the Church for Popish vnsound corrupt erroneous yea hereticall 2. b. p. 29. you affirme some Popish bookes to haue beene written by Protestants 2. b. p. 54. All these are vncharitable slaunders 1. for he can not name one writer of the Church that the Replyer hath personally inueighed or directed his penne against 2. of like truth is it that he hath vsed reproachfull tearmes against some of the best preachers what are those reproachfull words where and when vttered 3. it is as true that he chargeth the doctrine and teachers of the Church with hereticall opinions and writing of Popish books he saith that some bookes set forth doe maintaine doctrine too much declining to Poperie which can not be denied of any of sound iudgement if these and the like positions that the Scriptures alone are not compleate to euerlasting felicitie that mans will naturally is apt without grace to beleeue that mens naturall workes are acceptable vnto God that there are workes of supererogation that to be preserued from all sinne in this life is not vnpossible and such like as they are noted els where be not doctrines too much declining to Poperie then it must be confessed the Replyer is ouerseene if they be then the wrongfull Accuser is prooued a slaunderer Doth he count these the doctrines of the Church which are directly opposite to the articles of religion established which thus affirme that the holy Scripture containeth all things necessarie to saluation artic 6. that man of his owne naturall strength can not turne and prepare himselfe
in peruerting his words p. 12. 6. Vntruth That he maketh the ignorant beleeue that the defenders of this article of Christs descension into hell ioyne hands with none but with Bellarmine and other Papist 2. b. p. 33. The iustification 1. FIrst if the Replyer had missed somewhat in the title and inscription of his booke had that beene so great a fault as to deserue to be counted an vntruth Cicero was more equall toward his deadly enemie Antonie who saith Te verbi inopia lapsum putarem I would haue thought that you were ouerseene for want of a word 2. What though Limbus originally signifie the purle hem or gard of a womans garment yet seeing the Romanists haue appropriated that word to signifie that place which is in the brimme and skirts of hell where they imagine the fathers to haue beene we must vnderstand it according to the vsuall sense as Hierome saith in the like non possumus quae dicuntur nisi consuetis vocibus intelligere we can not vnderstand what is said but by the accustomed words 3. That the Replyer scourgeth the doctrine and discipline of the Church which is as the hemme of Christs garment is a meere slaunder as is before shewed slaund 6. but the Replyer is beholding to this forger of vntruths that he maketh him but a scourger of the hemme of Christs garment which commeth not neare the flesh and bodie as the saying is neare is my shirt but nearer is my skinne whereas he himselfe hath whipped the very members and parts of Christs bodie holding his brethren because they dissent from him about the locall discent no better then dissemblers schismatikes yea heretikes and maintainers of blasphemous paradoxes as hath beene before declared in the two former imputations of rayling and slaunders so that I may iustly returne vpon him Augustines words against the Donatists Venit persecutor non fregit crura Christi venit Donatus diripuit Ecclesiam Christi integrum corpus Christi in cruce inter manus persecutorum est inter manus Christianorum non est integrum corpus Ecclesiae The persecutor came and brake not the legges of Christ Donatus came and spoiled the Church of Christ the bodie of Christ is whole amid the hands of the persecutors but in the hands of Christians the bodie of the Church is not whole Secondly though Limbomastix may seeme a new name for the application yet in respect of the manner of deriuation and composition it is not new as the vsuall words Homeromastix Rhetoromastix doe shew Againe if Limbomastix be a new found name what is his Symbolomastix and Cleromastix epist. dedid p. 10. and that new tearme of discreeding wherein he glorieth beeing vsed thoroughout his not onely rude but rauing and rayling writing whereof I may say as Tullie doth of a certaine straunge word in the Latine tongue which Antonie vsed quod verbum in lingua Anglicana nullum est id tu novum propter diuinam tuam pietatem inducis that word which is not at all in the English tongue you take vp new because of your diuine pietie Thirdly whereas he would haue it entituled rather Limbopatrum mastix 1. what neede the word patrum be inserted seeing vse hath obtained among the Romanists who are masters both of the word and error therein implied that Limbus without any addition should signifie that place and part of hell where they imagined the fathers to be imprisoned as his ringleader could haue told him after whose pipe he might haue daunced here as well as in other places 2. And if he would needes haue formed a word to his owne fashion he that is so cunning in declining and inflecting of nounes as his daily exercise with his grammer boyes doth make him perfect should rather haue said Limbopatrimastix to auoide the concurrence of a double m euphoniae gratia then Limbopatrummastix 3. And why els doth he so must striue for this sesquipedale verbum Limbopatrummastix but to obtrude as Hierome saith magis portenta quam nomina monstrous tearmes rather then names simplices quosque terrens sono vt quod non intelligant plus mirentur terrifying the simple with straunge sounds that what they vnderstand not they may wonder at as Hierome saith of Basilides 2. The question in deede concerning Limbus patrum was neuer controuerted among sound Protestants and therefore while he falleth vpon that rocke as is discouered in the preface he bringeth his Protestants faith into strong suspition as not holding a straite course by the direction of the true compasse of Euangelicall truth he wresteth here against the Replyer a sentence out of Augustine as though he could have had nothing to say vnlesse he had imagined an aduersarie to raile vpon But the truth is that if this brasen face I would say brasen-nose master of art had left out his rayling slaunders vntruths errours absurdities and such like he should neither haue found what nor against whome to haue written And Augustine shall be returned againe vpon himselfe who may vse his words in his owne person Procliviores sumus quaerere potius quid contra ea respondeamus quae nostro obijciuntur errori quam intendere quam sunt salubria vt carcamus errore we are more readie to seeke rather what we may answer to those things which are obiected against our error then to consider how wholesome they are that we may be without error 3 How vntrue it is that there is not one word through his whole booke that doth insinuate any suspicion of holding Limbus patrum let the Preface be witnesse wherein this Popes liuerie is fitted so close to his backe as if hee himselfe had of purpose put it out to making Therefore the title of Lambomastix misseth not an haires breadth in that respect of that marke which hee aimeth at in his first booke Indeed his leaues are fronted throughout with false and presumptuous inscriptions the defence of 3. testimonies of scripture For what a vile slaunder is this that any of those against whom he speaketh and carpeth according to his name should denie any testimony of Scripture and what presumption is it to take vpon him professe to be a defender of Scripture wheras both the truth and whosoeuer professeth the truth is by it defended the Scripture should be driuen to a great straight if it needed his poore defence Here therefore Augustines sentence fitteth him well Haeretici ad defensionem possessionis suae Christi titulos ponunt sicut nonnulli faciunt in doma sua ne domum suam inuadat aliquis potens ponit ibi titulos potentis titulos mendaces ipse vult possessor esse domus frontem domus suae titulo alieno vult muniri Heretiks for the defence of their possessiō do set vp the titles of Christ as many doe in their house least some mightie man should inuade his house hee setteth vp the title of some great man but a false
is taken for the soule of man 18. He saith that sixteene of the fathers cited by Bellarmine make no mention of the deliuerie of the fathers by Christs descending to hell 3. b. p. 79. whereas there are fiue of that number wanting for Bellarmine citeth in all 36. Councills and fathers of the which 25. doe either directly or by necessarie consequent affirme that Christ descended to hell to deliuer the soules of the fathers so that to make vp the full number there remaine onely an eleuen which make mention onely of Christs descending to hell and speake not of the deliuerie of the fathers and these they are Lateranens Concil Irenaeus Clemens Gregor Nyssen Chrysostome Theodoret Augustine Leo Fulgentius Vigilius Arator subdiaconus all which notwithstanding or most of them if not in those places produced by Bellarmine yet els where in their workes doe giue testimonie with the rest for Limbus patrum 19. Vntr. You flatly denie this distinction of the soules death by sinne or damnation as insufficient 3. b. p. 84. whereas the Replyer directly saith we approoue that sentence of Augustine which maketh mention onely of those two kinds of the death of the soule speaking properly though in a more generall sense the deepe perplexitie and terrour of the soule may be said to be a kind of death of the soule where the Replyer further addeth in direct tearmes I will forbeare to vse this phrase of Christs dying in soule ibid. 20. Vntr. He calleth the Replyers exposition of that place of S. Peter new fancies hauing the approbation of Augustine for the most part and of Bede more fully whereupon the Replyer inferreth that this exposition is not newly deuised Limbom p. 45. 21. Vntr. The word descending is neuer spoken of the graue 3. b. p. 139. whereas Dauid saith thus to Salomon concerning Ioab thou shalt not suffer his hoare head to descend into the graue in peace where the word iaradh is vsed which signifieth to descend and the other word sheol beside the consent of the interpreters Pag. Mont. Tremell Vatab. and the Chalde translatour and both our English translations which all read or vnderstand the graue the circumstance of the place giueth it so to be taken because he speaketh of his gray haires which goe not downe to hell but to the graue 22. He saith that all Latine interpreters turne sheol infernum hell Psal. 139. 8. p. 151. 3. b. when as Iunius readeth stratum ponerem in sepulchro if I should make my bed in the graue and so Vatablus though he reteine the word infernum in the text â—yet in his annotations he vnderstandeth it of sepulchrum the graue An other vntruth it is that all translatours and interpreters are condemned of falshood by Limbomastix when as the Replyer saith onely thus neither doe some of the best interpreters read hell but the graue ibid. 3. b. p. 151. in marg Manifest truths denied Vnto these vntruths vnshamfastly affirmed shall bee added also diuers truths as immodestly denied 1. That there is not one word through his whole booke which doth insinuate so much as any suspition of Limbus patrum 2. b. p. 5. How vntrue this is the Preface doth evidently shewe wherein the imputation of this opinion is iustified by twenty seuerall places out of this hell-harrowers bookes 2. He saith he censureth no man at all 2. b. p. 87. How false this is see before his bitter railings against Doct. Reynolds and others 3. That Bellarmine findeth not fault with Beza for traÌ„slating 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cadauer in that place of Gen. 37. but in this place of the Acts p. 123. Yet Bellarmine directly affirmeth animam nunquam accipi pro cadauere that the soule is neuer taken for the carkasse and therefore consequently he findeth fault whosoeuer shall any where take anima for the carkasse or flesh and yet himselfe so taketh it Gen. 37. 21. and therefore he is contrary to himselfe 4. To say I confesse the word sheol Psal. 6. 4 5. doth properly signifie the graue when I plainly confute it is properly to belie me 2. b. p. 127. Who euer heard such a forgetfull and wilfull man for whereas he whome he confuteth readeth that place thus In hell who shall praise thee This cavillous and friuolous obiecter sheweth it should bee read rather thus who shall giue thee thanks in the pit where the word in the hebrew is sheol And hâ— further addeth by which last word all our late interpreters both Latine and English doe with one consent vnderstand the graue as beeing the ordinarie sequel of temporall death both of the good and bad but yet can extend no further then to their dead bodies onely 1. b. p. 12. Doth he not manifestly affirme that sheol is here taken for the graue and therefore findeth fault with his aduersarie for there reading hell If any then be here a lier to returne his owne vnmannerly tearme he hath made a lie of himselfe 5. He denieth that more goe to the graue then to hell 2. b. p. 128. And yet all both good and bad goe vnto the graue the place of corruption where he obiecteth that many wicked men want the honour of buriall so doe many of the godly also yet they all haue a place of rest in the earth where there bodie corrupteth Therefore it is a maruell with what face hee could denie a thing so apparant that more goe to the graue then to hell seeing it is called in Iob the house appointed for all the liuing cap. 30. v. 23. 6. He denieth that he censureth any interpreter at all or that he calleth them wranglers which take sheol for the graue in the olde testament but saith that the Replyer is rather an immodest wrangler in so saying 2. b. p. 151. And yet these are his owne words Howsoeuer some curious linguists may wrangle with the hebrew word sheol in the olde testament c. 1. b. p. 14. What now will this vaine man be ashamed to denie 7. Because it that is hades is all one with Abyssus which I confirme not by the wordes of S. Luke as you vntruely affirme but by the words of Beza himselfe vpon this place 2. b. p. 155. Now let vs see his owne words in his former booke which are these The truth whereof doth more euidently appeare in that the same Greeke word is by the same Euangelist rendred in another place by another Greeke word as Beza himselfe doth interpret it c. 1. b. p. 14. Is it not now apparant that hee first confirmeth that point by the words of Saint Luke which he indeede further explaneth by the wordes of Beza but first he citeth the Euangelist 8. No English translators turne sheol graue in this place but pit Psal. 6. 5. 3. b. p. 26. whereas the Geneua translators read thus in the graue who shall praise thee 9. To say that
translations of the Bible which are vsed among vs as first beside his light regard of the Geneua translation calling them in scorne your Genevian translators 2. b. p. 131. and 3. b. p. 27. hee thus in most vile tearmes disgraceth them For your Geneva Bibles c. it is to be wished and I trust God will worke it in his Maiesties most religious heart that either they may be purged from those manifold errors which are both in the Text and Margent or else vtterly prohibited 3. b. p. 49. 6. Neither doth he thus deale onely with the Geneua translation but euen the great English Bible also authorized publikely to be read in the Church cannot escape his virulent censure as 2. b. p. 48. thus he saith I cannot conceale a foule intollerable corruption which is lately crept into a late edition of our Church Bibles And further thus peremptorily he proceedeth in condemning the said translation together with the notes for that diuerse of your Geneuian notes especially such as tend to the maintenance of that blasphemie of hell torments in Christs soule are foisted into the margent of the said Bibles and some other before them which you vrge as if they were the very word of God making them the pestilent premises of your blasphemous conclusions 3. b. p. 50. he meaneth the annotation Luk. 22. 24. he felt the horror of Gods wrath and iudgement against sinne and another Heb. 5. 8. beeing in perplexity and fearing the horrors of death Who can endure such presumption to heare our authorized Bibles charged with maintenance of blasphemie and pestilent premises of blasphemous conclusions But he goeth on still in this his arrogant inuectiue and taketh not onely exception to the marginall notes as 2. Cor. 13. 7. wherein though some ouersight might bee committed by the Compositor in transposing some notes hee had no reason thus sawcily to checke and controll the translation it selfe but further saith neither is the text it selfe free from error in translation and here hee noteth in the margin 1. Co. 9. 21. where al the exceptiō he can take is to these words when I am not without law as pertaining to the law of God whereas in the originall it is onely not beeing without law vnto God the Geneua translation readeth as pertaining vnto God where who seeth not that in the one translation these words as pertaining to the Lawe and in the other as pertaining are no part of the text but inserted by way of explanation and should bee written in other characters But against that other place Eph. 6. 12. I wonder with what honestie he can take exception seeing it agreeth exactly with the originall better then the vulgar latine which is such a pearlesse translation in his eie Wee wrestle not against blood and flesh saith the English as it is in the originall against flesh and blood saith the Latine against Princes saith the Latine against rules saith the English not rulers as some Bibles haue for the words are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 against rules or principalities not princes or rulers 7. From finding fault with translations he ascendeth to carpe at the originall saying whether the Greeke now extant be the true authentike originall or no is the question and he saith further it is not free from corruptions in diuers places 3. b. p. 14. 8. He goeth on and secretly taxeth the fathers as first Augustine for he counteth it a badge of presumptuous singularitie and pernicious nouelty to reiect the generall confession he meaneth opinion or exposition of the fathers 2. b. p. 131. And yet Augustine hath a speciall interpretation of that place of Peter contrary to the current interpretation of most of the fathers of those times applying it to the times of Noah 9. Hee meeteth also with Bernard calling it absurd to apply descension to the graue 2. b. p. 155. whereas Bernard maketh direct mention of three descensions of Christ ad carnem ad crucem ad mortem to the flesh to the crosse to death which is to the graue so that Bernard also must be content to weare his liuerie of absurditie 10. Among these fathers may bee numbred the reuerend Prelates of the Church towards one of them yet liuing a reuerend writer and publike defender of religion he thus vaunteth himselfe That whereas he seemed in the first booke to incline to that opinion in Noahs time in the exposition of that place of Peter he is not so mislead with selfe-loue and singularitie as you and others are though euery way farre his inferiour but hath much altered his former iudgement moued as it may appeare vpon those reasons laid downe by me and none but me in the former booke 3. b. p. 101. wherein how vnmannerly hee vseth so reuerend a man who seeth not first saying by way of comparison that hee is not so mislead with singularitie c. as though he should be somewhat mislead that way but not so much as others secōdly he thinketh he hath his school-boyes in hand and would put that deepe learned father to schoole to learne his lesson of him thirdly his vanitie appeareth that hee and none but he hath hit vpon those reasons which changed the Bishops minde whereas in truth he hath borrowed the most of his reasons and testimonies from the other as may appeare by comparing their bookes together fourthly beside all this it is vntrue which he saith for that reuerend learned man is still of the same opinion concerning that place of Peter for these are his words I binde no man to my priuate exposition of the Scripture but rather stand on those places which haue the full consent of all antiquity to pertaine directly to this matter And againe I thought not fit to presse them when Augustine had once resigned them 11. But no maruell if particular fathers be thus taxed when he spareth not whole Churches as 2. b. p. 180. in saying The Orientall and Romane Church wanted this clause of Christs descension into hell sheweth a defect in thē no fault in the Apostles Creede But the truth is there was neither fault in the one nor defect in the other in the omission of that article then Thus he prowdly maketh the whole Oriental and Romane Church defectiue vnlesse he will giue Ruffinus the lie or Cyprian for vnder both their names that treatise goeth who so affirmeth that the article of the descension was not added of olde neither in the East nor Romane Church 12. He bringeth a scandall vpon the whole Church of England affirming that in the same there is dissention about substantiall points of doctrine for he misliketh and condemneth that defence of the Replyer against the obiection of the Romanists wherein he affirmeth that in the Church of England there is no difference in any substantiall point of faith and concerning the descending into hell giuē in instance by
in affliction and sorrow 8. Saint Peter saith thus searching when or what time the spirit which testified before of Christ which was in them should declare the sufferings which should come vnto Christ c. 1. Pet. 1. 11. he clippeth the text saying the spirit prophecied before of the afflictions of Christ. 9. For wisdome calleth or preacheth in the high waies Prou. 1. 21. he readeth wisdome is preached c. see before Imput 5. Ac. 3. 10. This Iesus hath God raised vp whereof we are all witnesses Act. 2. 32. he corruptly addeth to the text this is that Iesus whom God hath raised vp from death and hell whereof we are all witnesses 11. He quoteth for that place before recited Act. 1. 9. where there is no such thing 12. Lest I sleepe in death Psal. 13. 4. lest at any time I sleepe in death saith he where he addeth at any time 13. Thou art Lord alone thou hast made heauen and the heauen of heauens Nehem. 9. 6. but he readeth Thou Lord hast made heauen and the heauen of heauens 14. Againe in the same place thou preseruest them all and the host of heauen worshippeth thee but he addeth thou preseruest them all in their beeing and hee leaueth out that which followeth 15. Hee profanely scoffeth at Scripture whereas that place of Peter is alleadged Noe the preacher of iustice hee scoffingly inferreth Noe is no sooner formed a Carpenter but he is presently a reformed preacher 16. Whereas Saint Peter saith Noe the eight a preacher of righteousnesse 2. Pet. 2. 5. hee clippeth the words Noe the preacher of iustice ibid. 17. He shall not preserue the vngodly Iob. 36. 5. but hee readeth thus thou wilt not preserue changing the tence 3. b. p. 86. 18. Saint Iames thus writeth to receiue with meekenes the word that is graffed in you which is able to saue your soules Iam. 1. 21. he audaciously changeth the person reading thus to receiue with meekenesse the word engraffed in them which is able to saue their soules 19. Againe the same Apostle Let him knowe that hee which hath conuerted a sinner from the error of his way shall saue a soule c. Iam. 5. 20. but he thus mangleth this place He that conuerteth a sinner from the way wherein he erreth shall saue his soule c. In this one place he clippeth off the first clause Let him know hee changeth the tence conuerteth for hath conuerted and addeth these wordes wherein and his 20. Our Sauiours words are when they lead you and deliuer you vp take ye no thought afore neither premeditate what ye shall say but whatsoeuer shall be giuen vnto you c. Mark 13. 11. he thus boldly corrupteth the text when yee shall be lead deliuered vp into their haÌ„ds take no thought what to speake but that which shall be giuen c. 3. b. p. 104. where he both changeth the actiue for the passiue for they shall lead and deliuer he readeth shall be lead and deliuered he addeth into their hands and clippeth away neither premeditate 21. Reproouing the Obiecter for leauing out the word mourning in citing that place Gen. 35. 37. he himselfe committeth the very same fault the text truly alleadged saith he is this I will goe downe c. to my sonne mourning where he leaueth out into the graue 22. Exod. 1. 22. the text is Pharaoh charged all his people he readeth all the people leauing out his 1. b. p. 30. 23. Esech 13. 19. the text is will yee pellute me among my people for handfuls of barlie and peâ—ces of bread c. where he leaueth out all the last enclosed clause 24. Esech 18. 27. the text is when the wicked turneth away from his wickednesse which he hath 〈◊〉 and doth that which is lawfull and right hee in alleadging this Scripture leaueth out which he hath committed ibid. 25. Numb 22. 33. the Angel saith thus And the Asse saw me and turned from me now three times or else if shee had not turned from me surely I had 〈…〉 c. he clippeth the text thus There 〈…〉 turned from mee now the third time and if shee had not I had surely slaine thee c. where these words enclosed turned from me in the second place are omitted and he putteth the third time for three times ibid. 26. Beside all these places are falsly quoted as Esech 13. 18. for 19. Esech 18. 72. for 27. Psal 41. 12. for 41. 2. Numb 22. 32. for 33. Now concerning this vnfaithfull and fraudulent handling of Scripture I will not giue such an harsh sentence as Ambrose doth vpon some Qui Scriptur 〈◊〉 fidem destrâ—â—t destruitur ipse hee that destroyeth the faith of Scripture shall be destroyed himselfe as it is said hee that remâ—â—ueth an hedge a serpent shall 〈◊〉 him or as hee â—â—â—â—ureth them that had rased out certaine words of Scripture Illa litura de libro vitae nomina vestra delet that blot doth blot your names out of the booke of life But yet that saying of Epiphanius may be applyed vnto him non it a interpretantur vt scripta sunt sed id volunt significare quod ipsi sentiunt they do not so interprete Scripture as it is written but they will haue it to signifie as they imagine Of this number is the Confuter who by this time may perceiue his owne fault which he hath not healed by supposing another to bee like faultie with himselfe for it is a good saying 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that no man healeth one euill by another neither is one mans fault redressed by anothers But it is nowe high time to leaue weeding anothers ground time is better spent in setting of good plants then in weeding of thistles I passed saith the wise man by the field of the slouthfull and by the vineyard of the man destitute of vnderstanding and lâ—e it was all growen ouer with thornes c. I looked vpon it and receiued instruction And this instruction may we receiue by viewing this thornie field wherein this simple workeman hath solaced himselfe that such badde tillage sheweth the husbandman not to be very good It is odious and a thanklesse office still to be scoring out mens faults therefore I say with Tullie against Sallust finem dicendi faciaÌ„ saepius enim vidi grauius eos offendere animos aeuditorum qui aliena vitia apertè dixerunt quaÌ„ eos qui crimen coÌ„miserunt mihi ratio habeÌ„da est non quid Sallustius merito debeat audire sed vt ea dicam si qua ego honeste effari possum I wil make an ende of speaking for I haue often seene those more grieuously to offend the hearers minds which openly told of others faults then they which committed them therefore I must haue regard not what hee is worthy to heare but what I may with credit speake Diogenes beeing reprooued