ipsum audietis You shall heare that Prophet euen as my selfe Shew vs M. Horne any Prince in the new testament so conditioned and endewed and then make your argument on Gods name Verely any Prince that now is namely in Ecclesiasticall gouernment compared with Moyses is as the poet saieth Impar congressus Achilli Troilus And the lawier saieth Legibus non exemplis iudicatur We must iudge according to the precise rule of the Law and not by examples Extraordinary doings enforce no ordinary prescriptioÌ„ or rule The ordinary rule of Priests iudgmeÌ„ts without whies and whates and such other triflinge importune instances as ye are wont to make against it by the law of Moyses and by your owne chapter before alleaged in dowbtful cases must absolutelye vppon paine of deathe be obeyed By this rule of the Law you must measure al the examples following of Kings and Princes vnder this Law You must square your examples to the rule and not the rule to the examples onlesse ye will make of the Lawe of God Lesbiam regulam and both vnskilfully and vnorderly worke therewith And this one answere might wel serue for al the Kings doings now followiÌ„g Sauing I wil particularly disceÌ„de to euery one and for euery one saye somwhat Here I wish to encounter with M. Nowel for his shifts that he maketh to maintain the matter by Moyses and the residue but because it is M. Dormans special and peculiar matter I will leaue it vnto him and be also in the residue as briefe as I maye M. Horne The .12 Diuision Pag. 8. b. After the death of Moses the people as yet not entred and settled in the promised land the charge of chief gouernment ouer Gods people both in causes temporall and .39 Ecclesiasticall was committed to Iosue and not to Eleasar for to him belonged .40 onelie the ministration of the things belonging to the Priestlie office And to Iosue the Prince belonged the ouersight both ouer the priests and people to gouerne guide order appoint and direct eche estate in all things that appertained to eche of their callings Of the one ye seme to haue no doubt at all the other is as plaine For at the appointmeÌ„t of Iosue the Priests remoued the Arke of couenant and placed the same He did interprete vnto the people the spirituall meaninge of the tvvelue stones which thei had taken by Gods coÌ„maundement forth of Iordan to be as Sacraments or signes He circumcised the children of Israel at the seconde time of the great and solempne Circumcision He calleth the Priestes commaundeth some of them to take vppe the Lords Arke other seuen of them to blovv seueÌ„ trompets before the Arke and appointeth to them the order of proceding He builded an Aulter vnto the Lord God of Israel according to the Lavv of God be sacrificeth theron burnt sacrifices and burnte offerings He wrote there vpon the stones the Deuteronomie of Moses He read all the blessings and cursings as thei are set forth in the booke of the Lavve And he read al what so euer Moses had coÌ„maunded before al the congregation of â—srael c. Last of al Iosue to shevv that causes of Religion did speciallie belong to his charge and care maketh a long and a vehement Oration vnto the Israelits wherin he exhorteth them to cleaue vnto the Lorde with a sure faith a constant hope and a perfect loue obeiyng and seruing him with such seruice as he hath appointed in his Lavve And doth zelouslie and with great threates diswade them from al kind of Idolatrie and false Religion The .10 Chapter concerning the example of Iosue Stapleton THE Apologie allegeth as wel the example of Moses as of Iosue his doings with the residue by M. Horne here alleaged M. D. Harding sheweth that allegatioÌ„ to import no chief rule in spiritual matters as in deed it doth not Which chiefe rule did rest in the Prieste Eleazarus at whose voice and worde Iosue was commaunded to goe foorth and come in a place deaply dissembled by the Author of the Apologie For the auoiding whereof M. Nowell is put to many shifts first to glose that this place concerning Eleazarus may be restrained for going and comming to and froe the warres whiche as it is true so immediatlye before it is generallye writen Pro hoc si quid agendum erit Eleazar sacerdos consulet Dominum For him meaning Iosue Eleazar shal ask counsel of God when any thing is to be done In which words we see euidently that Iosue what so euer he did touching the gouerning of the people in Ecclesiasticall matters he did nothing of him self but was in al such maters instructed of Eleazarus the high Priest whose part therfore it was alwaies to ask counsel of God when Iosue had any thing to doe And though this place shuld be restrained to warfare only yet the authoritie geuen before by expresse wordes of the law to the high Prieste whose iudgement is coÌ„maunded in great doubts to be sought aÌ„d also followed doth neuer the lesse take place And thervpoÌ„ foloweth that al the testimonies of holy Scripture brought forth by M. Nowel and before him by M. Horne can not as they do not in deed induce supremacie in causes Ecclesiastical But th' execution of the high Priests or lawes coÌ„maÌ„demeÌ„t which in deed we grauÌ„t to appertain to the Prince And here I wil not quarel with M. Nowel either for quoting .33.34 for .23.24 and not reformed as he doth with M. Dorman for as smal a matter as for the misquoting of S. Cyprian or for treading M. Hornes steppes and borowing his allegations which not withstanding is a great obseruation with him as a worthy matter ye may be assured against M. Dorman and M. D. Harding This is but a childish and boyish rhetorike not so conuenient I wisse for M. Nowel the scholemaister as for the boyes his schollers whose propretye is to accuse their fellowes of borowing and to borow them selues like truants But for the doing of Iosue I wil further note that then the Priests toke vp the Arke of couenaÌ„t aÌ„d went before the people But I pray you M. Horne howe was this obserued of late yeres wheÌ„ the lay men durst adueÌ„ture to take the guiding of the Arke and goe before the Priestes and not suffer the Priests to goe before theÌ„ And durst alter the state of ChristiaÌ„ religioÌ„ against the wil aÌ„d minde of the Bishops and the whole Clergy then at their coÌ„uocation asseÌ„bled Well let this passe for this present I say no further for Iosue his doings sauing that otherwise also they are not to be drawen into an ordinarie rule for that the Spirite of God was certainelye in him and for that he had parte of Moses glory and the people commaunded to heare him And those things that he did wherof M. Nowell and Maister Horne woulde inferre a Soueraigntie in causes Spirituall he did them by the expresse commaundemente of
warne thee of gentle Reader to th entent that if hereafter the foresaid Copies come forth in printe as this very yere Neubrigensis did and that the printed Copies haue more or lesse then we reporte out of the writen Copies thou may not suspect any falshood or forgery in vs but vnderstanding the case as we haue saied maiest take our dealing to be as it is true and sincere I herefore hauing conferred the printed Neubrigensis with the writen Copie and finding some difference as ofte as that which I alleage out of Neubrigensis is in the printed Copie so ofte I haue noted in the Margent the booke and Chapter of that Copie And when that I alleage is in the writen not printed Copie I note in the Margent Neubrig M.S. for Manuscriptus Againe in quoting the leaues of the Tomes of Councells I haue alwaies in maner folowed the former Copies printed at Collen in three Tomes Anno. 1551. Only towarde the ende of this booke I haue folowed the last edition of this present yere quoting the leaues according to that Edition and then for perspicuites sake I hau◠added in the Margent Edit Postr Vale. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 AN ANSVVERE TO THE PREFACE THE PREFACE OF M. HORNE It is novve an vvhole yeare past since I heard of a book secretly scattered abroad by M. Fekenham emong his friends And in Aprill last I came by a Copie therof Vvhen I had read the booke and perceiued both the matter and the maner of the mans doings therin I savv his proofes so slender and his maner of dealing so shameles that I stood in doubt vvhat to do vvhether to discouer the man by vvriting or to shake him of vvith silence If I had not seene a further meaning in his setting forth and publishing the book .1 thē he durst plainely vtter or then his cunning could by any meanes ansvveare vnto or then that I vvith a good conscience mought haue neglected I vvoulde haue past it ouer vvith silence as a peece of vvoorke not vvorthy of ansvvere But seing the .2 chiefe end and principal purpose intēded as may be iustly gathered in publishing the booke vvas to ingrafte in the mindes of the subiectes a misliking of the Queenes Maiestie as though shee vsurped a povver and authoritie in Ecclesiasticall matters vvhereto shee hath no right to slaunder the vvhole Realme as though it vvere stranged and directly against the Catholike Churche renouncing and refusing to haue Communion therevvith And vnder my name to deface the mynisters of Christes Churche I could not choose oneles I vvould vvilfully neglect my duety to her Maiestie shevv my selfe ouermuche vnkinde vnto my natiue Countrie and altogeather become careles of the Churche Mynisterie but take penne in hand and shape him a ful and plaine ansvvere vvithout any curiositie T. Stapleton IT is to be knowen gentle Reader as I assuredly vnderstand that the Reuerent Father my L. Abbat of Westmynster M. Fekenham being prisoner in the Tower and supposing that the othe of the supremacie then passed in the Parliament holden at Westmynster in the fifte yere of the Queenes Maiesties raigne should foorth with as it was probable be tendred him and others gathered as it were in a shedule certain reasons and causes why he thought he could not with safe conscience receiue the said othe Minding to offer the said shedule to the Commissioners if any came The saied shedule M. Fekenham deliuered to M. Horne at Walthā a manour place of the Bishop of Winchester in Hamshier he being at that time there the said M. Horns prisoner by the committie of the Queene her highnes honourable Councel and that vpon this occasion In M. Fekenhams abode at Waltham there was daylie conference in matters of Religion namely of the principall pointes of this Treatise betwene him and M. Horne as him selfe confesseth In the which space he required M. Fekenham sundry and diuers times that he woulde by writing open vnto him the staies of his conscience touchinge the othe of the Queenes highnes Supremacie being the whole matter and cause of his trouble with no smal promises that he should susteine no kinde of harme or iniurie therby And in fine if there came no furder fruit or benefitte therof vnto him the whole matter should be safly folded vppe and left in the same estate where they beganne Wherevpon M. Fekenham thinking verely all things by him promised to be as truely meant as spoken made deliueraunce to M. Horne of a small Treatise deuised by him before his comming foorth of the Tower entituled The Answere made by M. Iohn Fekenham Priest and Prisoner in the Tower to the Queenes highnes Commissioners touching the othe of the Supremacie With this declaration also made vnto the said Master Horne that vpon the passing of the said statute he thought to haue deliuered the said Treatise to the Commissioners if any came as the staie of his conscience concerning the refusall of the foresaid othe And forasmuche as they came not he being as before is said vrged and pressed by the said M. Horne to open vnto him by writing the causes forcing him to breathe and staie vpon the taking of the foresaid othe made deliuerance of the very same Treatise deuised in the Tower with the foresaid Title and declaration Which Treatise being afterwarde encreased as wel by M. Hornes Answers as by M. Fekenhams Replies thervnto made after his return back againe to the Tower he sent one copie to the right honorable the L. Erle of Lecester and one other to Syr William Cicil Knight and Secretarie vnto the Queenes highnes with the same title that the printed book conteineth both of them being deliuered by M. Lieutenant of the Tower This shedule or litle Treatise M. Horne calleth a booke ▪ yea and that made with the helpe of the rest that he might seme after two yeares and more to haue done a worthy and a notable acte in answering six poore leaues for thereabout in M. Hornes booke amounteth the quantitie of M. Fekenhams Treatise and to haue made a great conqueste vpon M. Fekenham and his fellowes woorthie for this great martiall prowes to be if al other thinges faile a Prelate of the Garter This his Treatise was he forced to deliuer to the right Honorables as before for his necessary purgation concerninge suche false accusations and slaunders as Maister Horne had made and raised vppon him as shall heereafter in more conueniente place be specified VVherefore this beeing done as ye haue heard so plainly so simply and vpon such cause sheweth that M. Fekenham had no such meaning as M. Horne here falsly surmiseth As one who hadde his principall and chiefe regard how to satisfie his owne and not other mennes consciences howe to saue him selfe from slaunders and vntrue accusations and not to woorke with other men by perswasion VVherefore this is an vntrue and a false surmise of M. Horne as are the other two here also in saying that M.
infidelitie Your vnskilfulnes whiche is the least matter standeth in that ye saye the King is commaunded to haue by him the booke of the Lawe Your texte saith not so Syr but Describet sibi Deuteronomium legis huius in volumine He shal write out this second Lawe in a booke As Edmund Beck a man of your secte truely hath translated Wel let the King read in Gods name not onelye that booke but all the whole Bible beside It is a worthy and a commendable study for him But let him beware that this sweete honie be not turned into poyson to him and least vnder this pleasant baite of Gods worde he be sodainly choked with the topicall and pestiferouse translation wherewith ye haue rather peruerted then translated the Bible printed at Geneua and in other places and with your false daungerouse damnable gloses where with you haue corrupted and watered the same and made it as it were of pleasante wine most sowre vineger The onely remedy and help to eschewe and auoyde this daunger is to take this booke and other holy writings faithfully translated at the priests hands as they from tyme to tyme haue receiued them and after such order as your own texte appointeth saying When he is sette vpon the seate of his kingdome he shal write him out this seconde Law in a booke taking a copy of the Priests of the Leuiticall tribe Which later woordes ye haue because they make directly against you quite leafte out And then immediatly foloweth howe he shal busely read the sayde booke and so forth If this order had of Late yeares ben kept and that Princes and other had taken the Bible as it is and euer hath ben of the priestes of the Catholike Church orderly and lawfully succeding one the other as the Leuits did reade tawght and expounded as wel in Greke and Hebrewe as in Latin these errours and heresies should neuer haue taken so deape a roote as they haue now cawght Neither is this place onely meant that the King should take the bare lettre but rather the exposition withal of the said Priests For what were the King the better or any man else for the bare lettre if he had not also as ordinary a waye for his direction in the vnderstanding as he had prouided him for to receiue a true and an incorrupted copy Where of we may see the practise in al ages in the Catholik Churche whereof this place is the very shadowe and figure For as the Protestantes them selues are forced by plaine wordes to confesse that they know not the true worde or booke of God but by the Churche which from tyme to tyme delyuered these bokes euen so by al reason and learning they should also cōfesse that the Church can no more be deceiued in deliuering the sense of the saide word then in deliuering the worde it self Which seing they will not confesse for then were we forthwith at a point and ende with al their errours and heresies they must nedes continew in the same And so while euery man in the expositiō of scriptures foloweth his own head be it neuer so worldly wise or circumspect yet his own propre and peculiar separated from the common aduise and iudgement of the whole Church errours and heresies haue and doe daylie grow and wil neuer cease more and more to encrease and multiply onlesse we take forth the lessō I haue shewed you into this huge and infinite nōber where with the world is now most miserably ouerwhelmed Whereof the best remedy were the exact obseruation of this place that ye haue so wilily and sleightly slipte ouer But most of al an other sentence in the very said chapter and euen the next to this ye alleage that the King as sone as he is chosen shal bestow his study vpon the reading of the Deuteronomy Where Moyses saieth that in doubtful causes the people shoulde haue their recourse to the said priestes and to the iudge for the tyme beinge meaning the highe prieste of whome they shoulde learne the truthe and are commaunded to doe accordinglye euen vnder payne of death Which place wel weighed and cōsidered serueth to declare that I haue said that the King and others should receiue not only the letter which as S. Paule saieth doth kil but the true and sincere meaning withal wherein standeth the life of the letter as the life of mā with in his body yea the eternal lyfe wherof by folowing lewde lying expositions of holy write we are spoiled at the priests handes All which thinges serue directly for the primacy of them and not of Princes Nowe therefore goe on M. Horne and beinge at your first encountringe ouerblowen and discomfyted euen with your owne blaste thinke well whether it is lykely that ye shall hereafter bringe againste your aduersary any thīg wherby he should as ye haue falsly slaūdered him in a maner yelde and be resolued on your syde For as for the next place it enforceth no supremacy We frely graunte you that princes may sharply punishe teachers of false and superstitiouse religion and idolatry being thereof by the Priestes instructed which is the matter of your texte But then take head to your selfe Maister Horne For I saye to you that ye and your fellowes teache false and superstitiouse religion many and detestable heresies and so withal plaine Idolatry For heresie is called a very Idol aswel by scripture as in the exposition of the holy and learned fathers And thē are ye no simple Idolatour but one that mainteyneth a nomber of heresies with no lesse offence towardes God than was the offence of the Iewes that your place speaketh of when they sette vppe afterwarde their idolls And so haue ye geuen sentence against your selfe and haue tolde the Magistrate his office Neither thinck you that ye may illude your punishment by the cowlour of the late statutes of the realme which though in manye thinges serue for your wordelye indemnitye yet that ye may kepe your Madge and bisshoprike withall and maye not be punished for the obstinate defence of suche fylthye mariage and especiallye for the denyinge of the reall presence in the blessed Sacramente of the aulter and for many other things that your sorte daily write and preach I trowe it wil be hard for you to bring forth any acte of parliamente or any other conuenient and sufficient plea. And as I graunt this authority to punishe to the ciuil prince so that this inferreth a superiority in al causes aswel ecclesiastical as temporal I flatly deny and most of al that ye haue proued your assertion that princes ought to take vpon them such pretensed regiment whereof the very place by you induced sheweth as I haue said the plain contrary Now that you bring out of Glosa ordinaria that the Prince is commaūded by his Princely authority to cause his subiects to become Israëlites it may perhaps be in some ordinary Glose of Geneua his Notes
promising by othe to Aldrede Archbisshop of Yorke that crouned hiÌ„ at S. Peters alter in Westminster before the clergy and the people that he would defende the holye Churches and their gouernours But tel your readers good M. Horn I beseche you why that King WilliaÌ„ contrary to the auncieÌ„t order vsed euer before and since was not crowned of Stigandus theÌ„ liuing and being Archbishop of Canterbury but of the bishop of York Yf ye can not or wil not for very shame to betraie your cause tel you reader then wil I do so much for you Forsoth the cause was that the Pope layde to his charge that he had not receiued his palle canonically The said Stigandus was deposed shortly after in a Councell holden at Winchester in the presence of .ij. Cardinals sent froÌ„ Pope Alexander the .2 and that as Fabian writeth for thre causes The first for that he had holden wroÌ„gfully the bisshoprik whyle Robert the Archbishop was liuing The second for that he had receyued the palle of Benett bishop of Rome the fifth of that name The third for that he occupied the said Palle without liceÌ„ce and leful authority of the court of Rome Your author Polychronicon writeth in the like effect Neubrigensis also newly priÌ„ted toucheth the depositioÌ„ of this StigaÌ„dus by the Popes Legat in EnglaÌ„d aÌ„d reporteth that the Popes Legat Canonically deposed him What liking haue you now M. Horne of KiÌ„g WilliaÌ„s supremacy Happy are you with your fellowes the protestaÌ„t bishops and your two Archbisshops that the said WilliaÌ„ is not now king For if he were ye se cause sufficieÌ„t why ye al shuld be depriued aswel as StigaÌ„dê° And yet ther is one other thiÌ„g worse thaÌ„ this and that is schisme and heresy Who woulde euer haue thought good reader that the Pope should euer haue found M. Horne him selfe so good a proctour for the Papacy againste him self and his fellowes For lo this brasen face which shortly for this his incredible impudency will be much more famouse then freer Bacons brasen head of the which the schollers of Oxforde were wonte to talke so much doth not blushe to tel thee good reader to his owne confusion of the Popes Legates and the Councell kepte at Winchester And al this is ye wotte wel to shewe that Kinge William was supreme head in al causes as wel temporall as spiritual Then doth he pleade on foorth full lustely for the Pope for Kinge William heareth a certayne Ecclesiasticall matter beinge in controuersie and dependinge in the Popes cowrte betwene the Archebisshop of Yorke and the Archebisshop of Caunterbury the which cause the Pope had remitted to be determined by the King and the bishops Well said M. Horne and like the Popes faithfull proctour For hereof followeth that the Pope was the supreame head and iudge of the cause And the Kinge the Popes Commissioner by whose commaundemeÌ„t the cause was sent ouer to be heard in EnglaÌ„d And yet was Hubertus the Popes Legat present at the end this notwithstaÌ„ding M. Horne would now belike make vs belieue that King William also thrusted out Abbats and supressed Monasteries when yt pleased him For he telleth vs that by the KiÌ„gs iudgement Abbat Thurstan was chaunged and his monks scattered abrode but he had forgotte to set in also that his authour and others say that it was for slaying of certayne of his monkes and wounding of certayne other The monks also had hurt many of his men And your author of the PollichronicoÌ„ telleth that these moÌ„ks were scattered abrode by the kiÌ„gs hest by diuers bisshopriks and abbays which latter words ye leue out As also you do in your Author FabiaÌ„ who saith not they were scattred about as you reporte as though they had bene scattred out of their coates as of late dayes they were but he saieth they were spred abrode into diuers houses through Englande so that they chaunged but their house not their Religion And so this was no spirituall matter that the kinge did neither gaue he herein any iudgement in any spirituall cause Nowe if all other argumentes and euidences fayled vs to shewe that kinge William toke not him self for supreame gouernour in all maner causes as you moste vntruely and fondly auouche we might well proue it againste yowe by the storie of Lanfranke whome kinge William as ye confesse made archebishop of Canterburie Though according to your olde manner ye dissemble aswell the depryuation of Stigandus in whose place the king set Lanfranke as that Lanfranke receyuid his palle from Rome and acknowledged not the kinge but the pope for supreame head of the Church Which thing doth manifestly appeare in his learned boke he wrote againste your greate graundsier Berengarius Who as ye doe nowe denied then the transubstantiation and the real presence of Christes bodie in the Sacramente and called the Churche of Rome which had condemned his heresie as ye vse to doe the Church of the malignante the councell of vanitye the see of Sathan To whome Lanfrancus answereth that there was neuer anie heretyke anie schismatyke anie false Christian that before hym had so wyckedly babled againste that see And sayth yet farder in an other place of the sayd boke Quotquot a primordio Christianae Ecclesiae Christiani nominis dignitate gloriati sunt etsi aliqui relicto veritatis tramite per deuia erroris incedere maluerunt sedem tamen sancti Petri Apostoli magnificè honorauerunt nullamque aduersus eam huiusmodi blasphemiam vel dicere vel scribere praesumpserunt Whosoeuer from the begynning of Christes Church were honored with the name of ChristeÌ„ meÌ„ though some forsaking the Truth haue gone astray yet they honoured much the See of Peter neyther presumed at any time either to speake or to write any such blasphemy He saieth also that the blessed Fathers doe vniformly affirme that maÌ„ to be an heretike that doth dissent from the RomaÌ„ and vniuersal Church in matter of faith But what nede I lay furth to thee good Reader LanfraÌ„ks learned books or to goe from the matter we haue in hand ministred to vs by M. Horne coÌ„cerning this matter sent to be determined before the King Such as haue or can get either PolychronicoÌ„ or FabiaÌ„ I would wish them to see the very place and thaÌ„ wil they meruail that M. Horne would for shame bring in this matter agaiÌ„st the Popes primacy for the confirmation wherof ye shal find in LaÌ„franks reasoning before the King for his right vpoÌ„ the church of York somthing worth the noting for the Popes primacy Beside this he writeth that Lanfrank was a man of singular vertue coÌ„stancy and grauity whose helpe and couÌ„sel for his affaires the King chiefly vsed And therfore your coÌ„clusion that ye inferre of such premisses as ye haue specified which as I haue shewed do not impugne but establish the popes primacy is a very fond folish and false coÌ„clusion It appeareth well both
the Cardinal DuraÌ„dus P. Aemilius Martinus poenitentiarius Polidorus Virgilius And such lyke as he him self declareth otherwhere and in this place also confesseth Nowe all be it the Catholiques refuse no Catholique writer nor in this matter haue cause so to doe yet in a matter of such importance which beside the losse of al teÌ„poral relief and besyde bodily death importeth also euerlasting damnation to the Catholikes if the case stande as M. Horne and his fellowes beare vs in hande reason would he should haue fetched the substance of his proufes much higher yea within the .600 yeres whervnto they strayne and binde vs The which the Catholikes haue already performed against M. Iewel not in the substance of the matter onely but euen in the iustifying of the precise wordes wherein M. Iewel hathe framed to himself by a foolish wylynes or wylye foolyshnes the state of the question I meane for the wordes of head of the Church and vniuersall Busshop And what if M Fekenham nowe Syr would reuel with yow with lyke rhetorike and require of yow to proue by the fathers writing within the sayde .600 yeares these expresse words Supreame heade or gouernour in all causes spiritual and temporal to haue bene geuen and attributed to any ciuil Magistrate Againe that the temporal men without yea and against the consent of the whole clergy altered the state of religioÌ„ called and vsed for Catholik throughout the whole corps of Christendome one thousande yeares before with such other articles as concerne the regiment Ecclesiasticall that ye in this your booke defende Ye haue not no nor ye can not proue any such matter either by expres wordes or by any good induction or consequeÌ„t in the first and former Fathers And yet somwhat were it if the Later Fathers might helpe yow But what an impudent face as harde as any horne or stone haue ye beside your mere foly to make the worlde belieue that the authours aforesayde allowed such kinde of regiment of ciuill Princes as the Catholikes now denye Whiche assertion is so certainely and notoriously false that M. Horne him self can not nor doth not deny but that his owne authours were moste earnest fautours of the See of Rome And howe then maye it ones be thoughte by any wise man that they shoulde allowe the doings of suche that forsake and abandon al maner of authority of that See further then is the coÌ„men authority of al other Bisshops yea and make the Bisshop of that Seâ— to whome the sayde authors attribute so large and ample authoritye and prerogatiue as may be and whome they agnise as supreame iudge in matters of faith a very Antichriste These things be incredible these things as the prouerbe is hange together like germans lipps and so shal ye good Readers see the matter most euidently fal owte And therefore M. Horne where you haue of late openlye sittinge at a table in London as I am credibly informed bragged that ye haue quyte coÌ„futed the Papists with their own papistical Doctors how true this is I trust it shall by this answere plainely appeare M. Horne The 3. Diuision Their iudgements and sentences shal appeare in reading by the forme of letter for leuing foorth the Latine to auoide tediousnes 4. I haue putte into English the Authours mindes and sentences and caused them for the moste parte to be Printed in Latine letters that the English reader may knovv and decerne the Authours sayings from mine If this that I haue done vvorke that effect in the Englishe Reader vvhich he ought to seeke and I dâ— vvishe I haue vvonne that I wrought for but otherwise let men say and iudge what they liste I haue discharged my conscience and shewed the trueth Anno Domini 1565. Feb. 25. Rob. Wynchester Stapleton A great vntruth For M. Horne doth not faithfully but most corruptly and falsly alleage the authours wordes and vseth his owne in steade of theirs and to suche as he truely reherseth he geueth an vnmete and an improbable sense of his own making as we shal particularly notifye when the case requireth THE FIRST BOOKE CONTEINING MANY PRIVAT DOINGES OF M. Fekenham the State of the Queâ—tioÌ„ answer to M. Hornes oppositions out of holy scriptures both olde and newe with a declaration who are the right Donatists Protestants or Papistes M. Fekenham The declaration of such scruples and staies oâ—â—â—â—science touching the Othe of Supremacy as 〈◊〉 â—â—kenham by writing did deliuer vnto the L. Bisâ—â—op of Winchester with his resolutions made thereunâ—â— M. Horne The property of him that meaneth to declare rightly any matter done is to set forth the trueth vvithout malice to obserue the due circumstances of the matter persones and times and to vse simple plainesse vvithout guileful ambiguities 5. This Title is so replenished vvith vntrue report and ambiguous sleightes vvithout the note of any necessary circumstance that there is not almost one true vvorde therein vvhereby you geue at the first a taste to the indifferent reader vvhat he must looke for in the sequele You pretende and vvould haue your frendes to thincke that the first fovver chiefe pointes set foorth in your booke vvere deuised by you put in vvriting and so deliured vnto me as the matter and grounde vvherupon the confereÌ„ce to be had betvvixt me and you should stande And that I made thereunto none other but such resolutions as it hath pleased you .6 vntruly to report In the first parte you conueigh an vntrueth vnder a coulorable and ambiguous meaning in these vvoordes as M. Iohn Fekeâ—haÌ„ by vvriting did deliuer vnto the L.B. of VVinchester In thother part .7 you make an vntrue report vvithout any colour at all I doe graunt and vvill not deny that you deliured to me a booke vvhich I thaÌ„ke God I haue to shevv vvhereby to disproue you The same vvil declare the time vvhen the place vvhere the occasion vvherefore the personnes to vvhome the booke vvas vvriteÌ„ and vvhat is the matter in generall therein conteyned VVhereunto must be added at vvhat time the same vvas deliuered vnto me vpon vvhat occasioÌ„ and to vvhat â—nde Al vvhich circumstances you omitte in your booke published least you shoulde haue bevvrayed your selfe and haue appeared in your ovvne likenesse Stapleton The First Chapter concerning the Title of M. Fekenhams declaration THIS was an happy happe for M. Horne that it happed M. FekenhaÌ„ with the omitting of suche slender circumstances to minister to him matter of such triflynge talke wherein otherwise M. Horne should haue had nothing to haue sayde For here is he very exacte and precise in circumstances to be kepte with al dewe obseruation in a by matter which whether it be true or false doth nothing either preiudicate or touche the principal questioÌ„ that is whether the resolutioÌ„s were made before Maister Fekenham deliuered vp his matter in writing or after For this being true that these resolutioÌ„s were made to take away the scruples and stayes
other that among other heresies recite some of those that you openly and your fellowes maintaine Yf ye will reiect the poore Catholiques S. Augustine and Epiphanius also yet I trust you will not be against your owne famouse Apologie whiche saith that Epiphanius nombreth fourscore Heresies of the which it is one for a man after the order of Priesthode to marie and S. Augustine a greater nomber and so concludeth you and the residue to be heretikes If ye wil denie ye mainteine any of those heresies your preachings your teachings and writings beare full and open testimony against you What then haue you to iustifie your cause You wil happely forsake and abandon S. Augustines authoritie withal the olde Canons and Councels and flye vnder the defence of your brickle bulwarke of Actes of Parliament O poore and sely helpe o miserable shift that our faith should hang vppon an acte of Parliamente contrary as wel to all actes of Parliament euer holden in Englande before as to the Canons and Fathers of the Catholike Churche A strange and a wonderfull matter to heare in a Christian common welth that matters of faith are Parliament cases That ciuill and prophane matters be conuerted into holie and Ecclesiasticall matters Yea and that woorse is that Laie men that are of the folde onely not shepheards at all and therefore bounde to learne of their Catholique Bisshoppes and Pastours may alter the whole Catholique Religion maugre the heades of all the Bishoppes and the whole Conuocation This is to trouble all things this is as it were to confounde togeather heauen and earth But yet let vs see the prouidence of God These men that relinquishing the Church would hang only vpoÌ„ a Parliament are quite forsaken yea euen there where they loked for their best helpe For I praye you what warrant is there by acte of Parliament to denie the Real presence of Christes bodie in the holie Eucharistia Is it not for anye Parliament as well heresie nowe as it was in Quene Maries King Henries or anye other Kinges dayes What can be shewed to the contrarie Doth not Luther your first Apostle and his schollers defie you therefore as detestable Heretiques Nowe concerning Transubstantiation and adoration is it not well knowen thinke you that in King Edwardes dayes there was a preaty legerdemaine played and a leafe putt in at the printing which was neuer proposed in the Parliamente What Parliamente haue your Preachers to denye free will and the necessitie of baptizing children Againe I pray you is there any Acte to confirme your vnlawful mariage Doth not in this point the Canonicall Lawe stande in force as well nowe as in King Henries daies And so doth it not followe that yee are no true Bishoppe Beside is it not notoriouse that yee and your Colleages were not ordeined no not according to the prescripte I wil not say of the Churche but euen of the verye statutes Howe then can yee challenge to your selfe the name of the Lord Bisshoppe of Winchester Whereof bothe the Municipall and Ecclesiasticall Lawe dothe woorthelye spoyle you Wherefore as I sayed let vs dashe out these wordes and then no reasonable man shall haue any great cause to quarell against the Title of M. Fekenhams Treatise The .2 Diuision M. Horne The booke by you deliuered vnto mee touching the Othe was writen in the Tovver of London as you your selfe confessed and the true title therof doth plainly testifie in the time of the ParliameÌ„t holden Anno quinto of the Q. Maiestie Ianua 12. at which time you litle thought to haue soiourned with me the winter follovving and much lesse meant to deliuer me the scruples and staies of your coÌ„science in writing to be resolued at my hands And although you would haue it seeme by that you haue published abroade that the cause why you wrot was to be resolued my hande yet the trueth is as you your selfe reported that you and your Tovver fellovves hearing that the Statute moued for the assuraunce of the Queenes royall povver would passe and be establissed did conceiue that immediately after the same Session Commissioners shoulde be sente vnto you to exact the Othe VVhereuppon you to be in some readines to withstande and refuse the duetie of a good subiecte .8 not without helpe of the reste as may be gathered deuised the matter conteyned in the booke committed the same to writing and purposed to haue deliuered it for your ansvvere touching the Othe of the Supremacy to the CoÌ„missioners if they had come This may appere by the Title of that booke that you first deliuered to me which is worde for worde as follovveth The answere made by M. Iohn Fekenham Priest and prisoner in the Tower to the Quenes highnes Commissioners touching the Oth of the Supremacie In this Title there is no mencion of scruples and stayes deliuered to the Bisshoppe of VVinchester but of aunsvveare to the Queenes Commissioners I am not once named in the â—itle ne yet in the looke deliuâ—â—â—â— to mee neither is there one worde as spoken to me although in the 〈…〉 abroad you turne all as spoken to me â—n your booke published aâ—e 〈…〉 kinds of speaches To the L. Bishop of VVinchestâ— VVhen youâ— L. shal be able c. I shall ioyne this issue vvith your L. c. But it is farre othervvise in your booke deliuered to me namely To the Queenes highnes coÌ„missioners VVhen ye the Queenes highnes coÌ„missioners shal be hable c. I shal ioine this issue vvith you that vvhen any one of you the Queenes hignes coÌ„missioners c. From October at what time you were sent to me vnto the end of Ianuarie there was daily conference betvvixt vs in matters of Religion but chiefly touching the foure pointes which you terme scruples and stayes of conscience and that by worde of mouth and not by any writing In all which points ye vvere .9 so ansvvered that ye had nothing to obiect but seemed resolued and in a maner fully satisfied VVhervpon I made aftervvard relation of .10 good meaning tovvards you to certain honorable persons of the good hope I had coÌ„ceiued of your conformity At whiche time a certaine friend of yours standing by and hearing what I had declared then to the honorable in your coÌ„medacion did shortly after .11 reporte the same vnto you which as it seemed you did so much mislike doubting that your confederates should vnderstand of your reuolt .12 which they euer feared hauing experience of your shrinking froÌ„ them at .13 VVestminster in the coÌ„ference there the first yere of the Q. Maiestie that after that time I founde you alvvaies much more repugnaÌ„t and coÌ„trary to that wherin ye before times seemed in maner throughly resolued And also to goe from that you before agreed vnto By reason vvhereof vvhen in debating betvvixt vs you vsinge manye shiftes amongst other did continuallie quarell in Sophistication of vvordes I did vvill you to
behoueth vs al with al our harte to pray let them be feruente in the godly zeale of religion but they may not be heads of the Churche in no case for this Supremacy doth not appertayne to them These are no Papistes I trowe Maister Horne but youre owne deare brethern of Magdeburge in their newe storie ecclesiastical by the which they would haue al the worlde directed yea in that story whereof one parcel Illiricus and his fellowes haue dedicated to the Quenes Maiesty that beare the worlde hand they are the true and zelouse schollers of Luther In case ye thinke their testimony not to haue weight enowgh then herkē to your and their Apostle Luther who writeth that it is not the office of Kings and princes to cōfirme no not the true doctrine but to be subiecte and serue the same Perhaps ye wil refuse and reiecte bothe the Magdeburgenses and Luther to as your mortal enemies yow being a sacramentarye and such as take yow and your fellowes for stark heretiks A hard and a straunge case that now Luther cā take no place amōge a nōber of the euāgelical brethern What say yow then to Andreas Modreuiu◠Surely one of the best lerned of al your sect How lyke yow then him that saieth there ought to be some one to be taken for the chiefe and Supreame head in the whole Churche in al causes ecclesiastical Wel I suppose you wil challenge him to as a Lutherane Yf it muste neades be so I trust M. Caluin your greatest Apostle shal beare some sway with yow I know ye are not ignorante that he calleth those blasphemers that did call kinge Henry the eight Supreme heade of the Churche of Englande and handleth the kinge hī selfe with such vilany and with so spitefull woords as he neuer handled the Pope more spitefully and al for this title of Supremacy which is the key of this your noble booke Can ye now blame the Catholikes M. Horne yf they deny this supremacy which the heads of your owne religion aswel Lutherans as Zwingliās doe deny and refuse O what a straunge kinde of religion is this in Englande that not onely the Catholikes but the very patriarches of the new euangelical brotherhod doe reiecte and condemne Perchaunce ye wil saye Wel for al this there is no Englishe man of this opinion Mary that were wonderfull that if as we be sequestred and as it were shut vp from other countres by the great Ocean sea that doth enuyrō vs so we should be shut vp from the doctrine as wel of the Catholiks as also the Protestants of other cōtreis and that with vs the Lutherans and Zwingliās should finde no frendes to accompany them in this as wel as in other points But contente your self M. Horne and thinke you if ye do not alredy that either your self or many other of your brethern like the quenes supremacy neuer a deale in hart what so euer ye pretēd and dissemble in words Think ye that Caluin is so slenderly frended in Englād his bookes being in such high price and estimatiō there No no it is not so to be thought The cōtrary is to wel knowē especially the thing being not only opēly preached by one of your most feruēt brethren there in England euen since the Queenes maiesties reigne but also before openly and sharply writen against by your brethren of Geneua Especially one Anthonie Gilbie Whose wordes I wil as wel for my discharge in this matter somewhat at large recite as also to shew his iudgement of the whole Religion as well vnder King Henrie as King Edward and so consequently of the said Religion vnder our gracious Quene Elizabeth nowe vsed and reuiued that all the worlde may see that to be true that I said of the Supremacie as also that the feruent brethren be not yet come to any fixe or stable Religion and that they take this to be but simple as yet ād vnperfit In the time saith he of King Henrie the eight when by Tindall Frith Bilney and other his faithfull seruauntes God called England to dresse his vineyarde many promised ful faire whome I coulde name but what fruite followed Nothing but bitter grapes yea bryers and brambles the wormewood of auarice the gall of crueltie the poyson of filthie fornication flowing from head to fote the contempt of God and open defence of the cake Idole by open proclamation to be read in the Churches in steede of Gods Scriptures Thus was there no reformation but a deformation in the time of the Tyrant and lecherouse monster The bore I graunt was busie wrooting and digging in the earth and all his pigges that followed him but they sought onely for the pleasant fruites that they winded with their long snoutes and for their owne bellies sake they wrooted vp many weeds but they turned the ground so mingling good and badde togeather sweet and sower medecine and poyson they made I saye suche confusion of Religion and Lawes that no good thing could growe but by great miracle vnder suche Gardeners And no maruaile if it be rightlye considered For this Bore raged against God against the Diuell against Christe and against Antichriste as the some that he caste out againste Luther the racing out of the name of the Pope And yet allowing his lawes and his murder of many Christian souldiars and of many Papists doe declare and euidentlie testifie vnto vs especially the burning of Barnes Ierome and Garrette their faithfull preachers of the truthe and hanging the same daye for maintenaunce of the Pope Poel Abel and Fetherstone dothe clearelie painte his beastlines that he cared for no Religion This monsterous bore for all this must needes be called the Heade of the Churche in paine of treason displacing Christe our onely head who ought alone to haue this title Wherefore in this pointe O Englande ye were no better then the Romishe Antichriste who by the same title maketh him selfe a God and sitteth in mens consciences banisheth the woorde of God as did your King Henrie whome ye so magnifie For in his beste time nothing was hearde but the Kings Booke the Kings Procedings the Kings Homilies in the Churches where Gods woorde onelie should haue ben preached So made you your King a God beleuing nothing but that he allowed I will not for shame name how he turned to his wonte I will not write your other wickednesse of those times your murders without measure adulteries and incestes of your King and his Lordes and Commones c. Loe Maister Horne howe well your Protestante fellowe of the beste race euen from Geneua lyketh this Supremacie by plaine woordes saiynge that this title whiche you so stoutlye in all this your booke auouche displaceth Christe who owghte and that onely to enioye it And whereas ye moste vntruely saye heere that we make the Pope our God in earth Maister Gilbie saieth that you make your Prince a God in attributing to her this wrong title
Secretarie to the Quenes highnes at Westminster in the canon rewe The third daie was at the white Friers in the house of Syr Iohn Cheke Knight In al the which conferences and disputations with manie learned men he was the truth to confesse muche made of and most gently vsed And this disputation so begunne at London did finishe in Worcester shiere where he was borne and had also a Benefice by the meane whereof and by the special appointmēt of Syr Phillipp Hobbie he came before M. Hooper then taken as Bishoppe of Worcester where he charginge M. Fekenham in the Kinges highnes name to answere him he kept foure seueral and solempne disputations with him beginning in his visitatiō at Parshor and so finished the same in the Cathedral Church at Worcester Where amongs many other he founde M. Iewell who was one of his apponents The said M. Hoper was so answered by M. Fekenham that there was good cause why he should be satisfied and M. Fekēham dismissed from his trouble As he had cause also to be satisfied by the answeres of M. Henrie Iolife Deane of Bristow and M. Robert Iohnson as may appeare by their answeres now extant in print But the finall end of all the foresaid disputations with M. Fekenhā was that by the foresaid Syr Phillipp Hobbey he was sent backe againe to the Tower and there remained prisoner vntill the firste yeare of Queene Marie And here nowe may you perceiue and see M. Horne how ye are ouertaken and with how many good witnesses in your vntruthe concerning M. Fekenhams dimissing out of the Tower A rablement of your vntruthes here I wil not nor time will serue to discusse as that Monasteries were surrendered with the Monks goodwil whiche for the moste parte might sing volens nolo that their vowes were foolishe and that they had many horrible errors Marie one thing you say that M. Fekenham I thinke will not denie that he set foorth this Supremacy in his open sermons in King Henries daies which was not vpon knowledge as you without all good knowledge doe gather for knoweledge can not matche with vntruth but vpon very ignorance and lacke of true knowledge and due consideratiō of the matter being not so wel knowē to the best learned of the Realme then as it is now to euery mā being but of mean learning For this good lo at the least heresy worketh in the church that it maketh the truth to be more certainly knowen ād more firmly and stedfastly afterward kept So as S. Austine saith the matter of the B. Trinitie was neuer wel discussed vntil Arriās barked against it The Sacramēt of penāce was neuer throughly hādled vntil the Nouatiās began to withstand it Neither the cause of Baptism was wel discussed vntill the rebaptising Donatists arose and troubled the Church And euē so this matter of the Popes Supremacy ād of the Princes was at the first euē to very learned mē a strāge matter but is now to meanly learned a well knowen and beaten matter Syr Thomas More whose incōparable vertue ād learning al the Christian world hath in high estimatiō and whose witte Erasmus iudged to haue ben such as England nor had neither shal haue the like ād who for this quarrel which we now haue in hād suffred death for the preseruatiō of the vnitie of Christes Church which was neuer nor shal be preserued but vnder this one head as good a man ād as great a clerk and as blessed a Martyr as he was albeit he euer wel thought of this Primacy and that it was at the least wise instituted by the corps of Christēdome for great vrgēt causes for auoiding of schismes yet that this primacy was immediatly institute of God which thing al Catholiks now specially such as haue trauailed in these late cōtrouerses do beleue he did not mani yeres beleue vntil as he writeth himself he read in the mater those things that the Kīgs highnes had writē in his most famous booke against the heresies of Martin Luther amōg other things he writeth thus Surely after that I had read his graces boke therin and so many other things as I haue sene in that point by the continuance of this seuē yeres sins ād more I haue foūd in effect the substāce of al the holy Doctors froe S. Ignatius Disciple of S. Iohn vnto our own daies both Latins ād Grekes so cōsonāt and agreīg in that point and the thing by such general Gouncels so confirmed also that in good faith I neuer neither read nor heard anye thinge of suche effecte on the other side that euer coulde lead mee to thinke that my conscience were well discharged but rather in right great peril if I should follow the other side and denie the primacie to be prouided by God It is the lesse meruail therfore if at the first for lacke of mature and depe consideration many good wel learned men otherwise being not resolued whether this Primacie were immediatly instituted by God and so thīking the lesse dāger to relēt to the Kings title especially so terrible a law enacted against the deniers of the same wer ād amōg them also Maister Fekenham caried away with the violence of this cōmon storm and tempest And at the first many of the cōuocation grāted to agnise the Kings supremacy but quatenus de iure diuino that is as far as thei might by Gods law Which is now knowen clearly to stand against it And although the Popes Primacie were not groūded directly vpon Gods worde but ordeined of the Churche yet coulde it not be abrogated by the priuate consente of any one or fewe Realmes no more then the Citie of Londō can iustlye abrogate an act of Parliament But whereas ye insult vpon M. Fekenham for that he was ones entangled and wrapped in this common error and would thereof enforce vpon him a knowledge of the said error and woulde haue him perseuere in the same and ones againe to fall quite ouer the eares into the dirtie dong of filthie schisme and heresie ye worke with him both vnskilfully and vngodlye And if good counsaile might finde any place in your harde stony hart I would pray to God to mollifie it and that ye would with M. Fekenham hartilie repēt and for this your great offence schisme and heresie as I doubt not he doth and hath done followe S. Peter who after he had denyed Christ Exiuit fleuit amarè Went out and wepte ful bitterlie For surely whereas ye imagine that ye haue in your cōference proued the matter to M. Fekenhā so that he had nothing to saye to the contrarye it is nothing but a lowde lewde lye vppon him and that easelye appeareth seeinge that after all this your long trauaile wherein yee haue to the moste vttered all your skill ye are so farre from full answering his scruples and staies that they seeme plainlye to be vnaunswerable and you your selfe quite ouerborne and ouerthrowen
saying that concupiscence as a sinne remayneth in vs after holy baptisme And because ye shal not say I suppresse conceile or obscure the chief and most notable persons of your auncetry how say you to the Emperours Philippicus Leo Constantinus condēned with their adherētes by the .7 general coūcel at Nice that vilayned by defacing breaking and burnīg the Images of al the holy hallowes of Christ ād Christes to To whome for your more honour and glorye I adioyne the Emperour Iulianus the Apostata Who as ye doe in your books and pulpits cried out vpon the Christiās O ye wretched men that worship the wood of the crosse setting vp the figure of it vppon your forehed and dores you therefore that are of the wiseste sorte are worthy to be hated and the residewe to be pityed that treading after your steppes come to such a kinde of Wretchednes To the Pelagians affirming that children not baptized shal be saued And yet are your maisters in this point worse then the Pelagians as wel for that some of them haue said that some Infants thowgh vnbaptized shal be damned and some other though vnbaptized shal be saued And some of them especially Caluin and other Sacramentaries say that they shal come without Baptisme to the Kingdom of heauen which the Pelagians durste not say but that they should haue the life euerlasting putting a difference but peuishly betwixte those two And if ye thinke the race of your worthye generation is not fetched highe inoughe we will mounte higher and as high as maye be euen to Simon Magus him selfe Of whome Marcion and Manicheus and after long and honorable succession your Patriarches Luter and Caluin haue learned their goodly doctrine against free will Yea to touche the verye foundatiō and wel spring of this your new gospel which altogether is grounded vpō iustificatiō without good works in that also ye drawe very nigh to the said Simon Magus I forbeare at this time to speake of the residewe of your noble progenitours hauing in other places as I noted before spoken largely of the same This shall suffice at thys present to make open to all the world that they are no petit or secrete heresies that ye and your fellowes mainteine Come foorthe once and cleare your selfe of this onelye obiection if yow can being so often pressed therewith If you maintaine olde condēned heresies what are yow lesse then heretiks your selues If yow maintaine them not or if they be not olde heresies which you maintaine clere your self if you be able I assure you M. Horn you and al your felowes wil neuer be able to auoide this one onely obiectiō And therfore you and al your fellowes must nedes remaine stark hereticks and for such to be abhorred and abādonned except you repēt of al good Christiās Now as I haue proued yow and your companions open and notable heretiks so shal I straite way purge M. Fekenham to be no Donatist or any heretik otherwise for any thing yet by you layde to his charge But now Maister Horne beware your self leaste this vniuste accusation against Maister Fekenham and the Catholikes whome ye cōpare to the Donatistes causelesse moste iustly and truely redounde vpon your and your fellowes heades Beware I say For I suppose I will laye more pregnante matter in this behalfe to your and their charge then ye haue or possible can doe to Maister Fekenham or any other Catholike whereof I dare make any indifferent Reader iudge If I should dilate and amplifie this matter at large yt would rise to a prety volume but I will purposely abridge yt and giue the Reader as it were but a taste They were al called first Donatistes but as the first fell from the Churche Catholike so fell they also afterwarde from their owne Churche and maister into an horrible diuision of the Maximianistes Circumcellions Rogatistes Circenses and others A lyuelye paterne of the sectes sprōg from your Apostle Luther as in their pedegree in the Apology of Staphylus euery man may see The Donatistes would somtyme crake and bragge of their multitude and bring it as an argument that the truth was on their side as doth your Apologie Which being restrayned by the Emperours Lawes and dayly diminishing then they cried the truthe resteth with the fewe elected and chosen parsons then cried they O lytle flocke feare not as ye did when ye were as yet but in corners rotten barnes and Luskye lanes The Donatistes when they could not iustifie their own doctrine nor disproue the Catholiks doctrine leauing the doctrine fel to rayling against the vitiouse lyfe of the Catholiks In this point who be Donatists I referre me to Luthers and Caluins books especially to M. Iewel and to your owne Apologie The Donatistes refused the open knowen Catholicke Churche and sayde the Church remayned onely in those that were of their side in certayne corners of Afrike And sing not ye the like songe preferring your Geneua and Wittenberge before the whole Catholike Church beside The Donatistes corrupted the Fathers books wonderfully and were so impudent in alleaging them that in their publike conference at Carthage they pressed much vppon Optatus wordes and layde him forth as an author making for them who yet wrote expressely against them and in all his writings condemned them Is not this I pray yow the vsuall practise of your Apostles Luther and Caluin of M. Iewel and your own to in this booke as I truste we haue and shal make it most euidēt And here let M. Dawes beare you company to in the crafty and false handling of his own deare brothers Sleydans story where he leaueth out Alexander Farnesius oration to the Emperour wherein he sheweth the Protestants dissensions The Donatists to get some credite to their doctrine pretended many false visions and miracles and they thowght that God spake to Donatus from heauen And doth not M. Foxe in his donghil of stinckinge martyrs pretely followe them therein trowe you Hathe not the lyke practise bene attempted of late in Hūgary to authorise the new ghospell by pretēding to restore lyfe to an holy brother feyning him self to be dead and by the great prouidence of God found to be dead in dede Did not your Apostle Luther boast himself of his visions and reuelations Which how coelestiall they were doth sone appere for that hī self writeth that the deuil appered vnto him in the night and disputed with him against priuate masse by whose mightye and weightye reasons Luther being ouerthrowen yelded and incontinently wrote against priuate masse as ye cal it Did not the Donatists preferre and more exsteme one national erroniouse councel in Aphrica then the great and general coūcel at Nice kepe not ye also this trade preferring your forged Conuocation libell before the Generall Councel of Trident The Donatists said that al the world was in an apostasie at the cōming of their apostle Donatus And
at Constantinople and to the Emperours speach the secoÌ„d time after his banishmeÌ„t Where the Emperour desirous to trie him asked Arrius if he agreed with the Nicene Councel vpon which request he offred to the Emperoure a supplication and a foorme of the Catholike confessioÌ„ pretending to sweare to that but deceauing the prince with a contrary faith in his bosome and swearing to the faith in his bosome By these means th'Emperour dimissed him And therevpoÌ„ the factioÌ„ of Eusebius weÌ„t forthwith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with their accustomed violeÌ„ce saith Theodoret to AlexaÌ„der the B. of CoÌ„stantinople and required him to receiue him into CoÌ„munion The Bishop vtterly refused to do it notwithstaÌ„ding the Courtiours request or Princes pleasure because saith AlexaÌ„der being by a whole CouÌ„cell coÌ„demned he caÌ„ not be restored The factioÌ„ of Eusebiê° thretned AlexaÌ„der that if he would not by faire meanes restore him they would force him therto by foule meanes saiyng As against your wil we haue made him come to the Emperours speach so to morow against your wil we wil make you to receiue him into your Church To this point therfore the mater was now brought that Eusebius with his faction conducted by force Arius to the Cathedrall Churche at Constantinople there by violeÌ„ce to Church him But lo as they were going with al their heretical band to the church to play this part God shewed his mighty haÌ„d euen as he did vpoÌ„ the Egyptians in the read sea specified in the old TestameÌ„t or vpon Iudas in the new For in the way Arius was driueÌ„ to seke a place to ease nature where sodainly he auoided with his excrementes his very bowels and entrails aÌ„d in that filthy place gaue ouer his foule filthy stinking soule A mete carpet for such a squier And this is loe the mother Churche whervnto Arius was restored and vnited For other restitution by the true Catholike Bishops whose office it was as ye haue heard to restore him had he none And nowe with this miserable and wretched ende of this Archeheretike Arius wil I also end the doiÌ„gs of CoÌ„stantine the great wherin I haue so farre forth proceeded as M. Horne hath ministred occasion As for the Councel of Tyrus whereof here againe meÌ„tion is reiterated I haue spoken both in this boke aÌ„d also against M. Iewel as is before noted And now may I boldly vnfold your coÌ„clusion M. Horne where you say that the Nicen bisshops agnised this kind of regimeÌ„t in the great CoÌ„stantine â–ª and say quite coÌ„trary they agnised no suche regimeÌ„t which also I haue proued against you eueÌ„ by your own examples of CoÌ„stantine and the Nicen Fathers especially of Athanasius present at the said Councell M. Horne The .39 Diuision pag. 25. b. Constantines sonnes claimed and toke vpoÌ„ them the same authority that their Fathers had done before them and as Zozomen .101 reporteth of them did not only vpholde and mainteine the ordinaunces made by their father Constantine in Church matters but did also make nevv of their ovvne as occasion serued and the necessitie of the time required Constantinus after the death of his father restored Athanasius vvhom his father had .102 deposed to his bishoprike againe vvriting honourable and louing letters to the Churche of Alexandria for his restitution Constantius deposed Liberius the Bisshoppe of Rome for that he vvoulde not consent to the condemnation of Athanasius in vvhose place Foelix vvas chosen vvhom also the Emperour deposed for the like cause and restored again Liberius vnto his bisshoprik vvho being moued vvith th' Emperors kindnes as som vvrite or rather being ouercome vvith ambition .103 becam an Arrian This Emperour deposed diuers bisshops appointing other in their places He called a Synod at Millayn as Socrates vvitnesseth saiyng The Emperour commaunded by his Edict that there shoulde be a Synod holden at Millayn There came to this Councell aboue .300 Bishoppes out of the VVest Countries After this he minded to call a generall Councell of all the East and VVest Bysshops to one place vvhich coulde not conueniently be brought to passe by reason of the greate distaunce of the places and therefore he commaunded the Councell to be kept in tvvo places at Ariminum in Italie and at Nicomedia in Bythinia The .5 Chapter What Ecclesiasticall gouernement the Sonnes of Constantine the Great practised Stapleton YF Constantines Sonnes claimed the same authoritie that their Father had in causes Ecclesiasticall then were they no supreame Iudges no more then their Father was who was none as I haue said and shewed Yet saith M. Horne They not only mainteined their Fathers ordinaunces in Church matters but also made new of their owne But al this is but a loud and a lewd lye Which to be short shal sone appeare in the wordes of Zozomene M. Hornes Author who in the boke aÌ„d chapter quoted by M. Horne writeth thus The Princes also he meaneth Constantines Sonnes concurred to to the encrease of these things he speaketh of encreasing the Christian faith shewing their good affection to the Churches no lesse then their Father and honouring the Clergy their seruaunts and their domesticals with singular promotions and immunites Both confirming their Fathers lawes and making also of their owne against such as went about to sacrifice to worship idols or by any other meanes fell to the Grekes or Heathens superstitions Lo M. Horne heare what your Author saith As before CoÌ„stantine promulged lawes against Idolatrie and honored the Church of Christ and the ministers thereof so did his Sonnes after him As for Church matters as Constantine the Father made no lawes or decrees therto apertaining no more did his SoÌ„nes It is but your impudent vntruth Now touching the first and eldest sonne of Constantine called also Constantine we haue here of him as many lies as lines First in that M. Horne saith that his Father deposed Athanasius who was deposed by the Bishops and not by Constantine for he banished him but depose him he neither did nor could The second that this Constantine restored him to his bishoprick againe wherein he belyeth and so maketh the third lye his Author Theodoret who speaketh of none other restitution but that he released him from exile and banishmente which ye wote is no Bishoply but a Princely function and office But now we may be of good comforte For hauing boren out this brunt I trust we shal shift wel inough for all the residue For now lo we haue an Emperour that as far as I can see tooke vppon him in dede in many things M. Hornes supremacy Which may be proued by Athanasius Hosiê° Hilarius aÌ„d LeoÌ„tius Bisshops of the very same time But praise be to God that the same men al notable lightes of the Catholike Church which declared that he vsed this authority do withal declare their great misliking thereof aÌ„d make him soâ— of theÌ„ a plain foreruÌ„ner of Antichrist as I haue before declared out
to the bishop of Hierusalē which kept there also a Councel and condēned Anthimus And al this was done in fowre monethes And therfore yt cā not be the true title of this Coūcel And much lesse tel the matter and who had cheif authority there But euery man is not so cunning as you to make men weene that the egge was a chycke before the henne had hatched Yet for one thinge I here commende you for telling vs that the Popes Legats in this Councel were set in the right hande of the Patriarche Menas whiche I suppose maketh somwhat for the Popes primacye But that you adde they were named and appointed by the commaundement of the Emperour I can not commēde you For it is vntruly saied They were the Popes owne Legates and deputies of his own naming and appointing not of the Emperours For it foloweth in the same Constitution of Iustinian touching these Legates Omnibus quidem ex Italica regione ab Apostolica sede nuper missis All being lately sent out of Italy from the See Apostolike In like maner where you say Theodorus a Maister of the Requestes to the Emperour as you call him deliuered to the Synod the Billes of supplication to be considered on such consideration you finde not in the woordes of Theodorus but this you finde him say to the Synode V◠in his interpellantes vos ipsis finem imponatis To th entent that by your meanes in these matters they may be ended and cōcluded This the Emperours officer required of the Synode that they would make an ende of the complaintes layed in by certaine Bisshoppes and Monkes And this you conceale and alter cleane to a simple consideration as thoughe the Councel should haue considered and then the Emperour concluded And therefore yet ones againe in this very Diuision you tel vs of a booke of supplication made by the Monasteries of Secunda Syria to the Emperour that Menna the president of the Councel should receaue their booke and consider of it according to the Ecclesiastical Canons The woordes of your Author are Quae in ipso insita sunt Canonicè finem accipere conuenientibus ad ipsum c. that the contents of their booke of supplication be ended and determined Cononically not considered only and that by the accorde not of Menna only whome only you name being the bisshop of Constantinople but of the most holy Romaines and the holy Synode Thus your false doctrine can not appeare when it commeth to trial but lodē alwaies with fardels of vntruths But nowe I trowe we shall quickly lese this aduantage For strayte ye bringe vs foorth a bisshop that calleth the Emperour the higheste potentate in the worlde next vnto God maintayning the onely and pure faith offeringe vnto God pure leuen of true doctrine as incense and burning the chaff meaning as ye say false religion with vnquencheable fier And thinke you M Horne that yf Iustiniā now lyued he would take your doctrine for pure fyne flower and not rather for stynking musty chaffe or bran Well you haue hearde his iudgemente in parte alredy As for your bsshop yf he had sayd in al causes as you make hī to say in the margin he had said wel towarde your purpose but nothing towarde the truthe And therefore ye hauing espied the former wordes not to come iumpe to your purpose ye vndershore them withe an other sayinge of the saied bisshoppe who speakinge of an heretyke desireth the Emperour to whome God had reserued the ful authority to directe to cut him from the Church and to expulse him out of his dominions Ye are not for al this much the nearer for wherein the good bisshop meante the full direction he him selfe sheweth that is in cutting away of heretiks and expulsing them out of his dominiōs And therefore your goodly marginal note that God reserueth to the Prince the fulnesse of direction in causes Ecclesiasticall quayleth and is not worth a rushe Neither is yt to be collected by the expresse woordes of the bishop and yf yt were sauing for your shrewd meaning and mistaking yt were not greatly material For it might stād right wel meaning of the ful and final directiō which is the executiō Ye now lay forth many ecclesiastical cōstitutions and among other that no mā shal dispute further in matters of religiō ons concluded where are your Westmynster disputations thē and that themperour had decreed all those things by sentence for the common peace of the Church Ye say the truth but not all the truth for ye haue most falsly following your accustomable humour left out iij. or iiij wordes strayt waies following We haue saith Iustinian determined these things following the decrees of the holy fathers Which wordes doe set your self and your primacy to quyt beside the sadle And thus as thēperours conclusion that knitteth vp al knitteth vp our conclusion to for the ecclesiastical primacy and vnfoldeth al your false conclusiōs in this your false boke So yf ye take and ioyne the very beginning of the said constitutiō to the wynding vp of yt the matter wil be much clearer and so clere that Iustiniās cōstitutiō that your self do bring forth may serue for a sufficiēt answere to al your boke cōcerning princes intermedling in causes Ecclesiastical We do saith Iustiniā no strāge thīg or such as thēperors haue not ben accustomed vnto before in makīg this present Law meaning against Anthimus Seuerus and Zoaras for as often as the bishops by their sentence haue deposed and displaced out of their holysees and dignities any vnworthy parsons as Nestorius Eutyches Arius Macedonius and Eunomius and certain other as nawghty as they were thēperors folowing their sentēce ād authority decreed the same So that ecclesiastical ād tēporal authority cōcurring together made one agremēt in right iudgmēt Euen as we knowe it happened of Late touching Anthimus who was thruste out of the see of this imperiall cyty by Agapetus of holy and gloriouse memorie the bisshop of the most holy Church of olde Rome M. Horne The .73 Diuision pag. 42. a Al things being thus done by the commaundement of the Emperour in the first Action and so foorth in the second third and fourth after many acclamations the President of the Councel Mennas concludeth saying to the Synod That they are not ignorāt of the zeale and minde of the Godly Emperour towards the right Faithe and that nothing of those that are moued in the Church .206 ought to be don without his wil and commaundement Stapleton Now goe ye M. Horne clerkly to worke For yf ye can roundly and hansomly proue this ye may perchance set a new head vpon Iustinians shoulders which yet woulde be but an vgle and a monstrouse sight But this is neither clerkly nor truely don of you to turne Cōuenit yt is mete semely or conuenient into oportet yt must or ought I maruaile ye bearing the state of a bishop haue so litle faith and
impudently in going about to make your Readers belieue that Richaredus and other Princes after him were takē for Supreme heades of the Church till now in these later daies and most blasphemously in calling the Pope for this mater the childe of perdition As wel might you for this cause haue called Gregorie so too Who is surnamed as ye here write the Great But God wotteth and the more pitie not very great with you and your fellowes Of al bookes his writinges beare most ful and plaine testimonie for the Popes singular praeeminence whiche thing is in an other place by me largely proued that though the matter here semeth to require somewhat to be said I neede not say any thing but onely remit the Reader to that place where he shal finde that S. Gregorie practised this Supreme authoritie as wel in Spain as other where throughout the whole Christened world But what saith S. Gregorie Forsothe that the King Richaredus by his carefull and continuall preaching brought Arrians into the true faith S. Gregorie saith wel And yet you wil not I trow say The Prince himself preached in pulpit to the Arrians What then Verelye that which he did by his Clergie and to the which he was a godly promoter that he is saied to doe him selfe As to preache to conuert heretiques to decree this or that and briefely to gouerne in causes Ecclesiastical All which the Prince in his owne person or of his owne authority neuer dothe But by his furderance such things being done he is saied sometimes as here of Saint Gregorye to doe them him selfe We might now passe to the next mater sauing that as ye without any good occasion or bettering of your cause bring in that Richaredus woorked these thinges without Pope Gregorie So it may be feared ye haue a woorse meaning and that ye doe this altogeather craftely to blemishe and deface Sainte Gregorye with the ignoraunte Reader Els tell me to what purpose write ye that Saint Gregorye was asshamed of him selfe and his owne slacknesse Why bringe you in these woordes of Sainte Gregorye What shall I aunsweare at the dreadfull doome when youre excellencye shall lead with you flockes of faithfull ones which ye haue broughte into the true faithe by careful and continuall preachinges I muste then either to refourme your ignorance if ye knew it not before or to preuent your readers circumuention by your wilye handeling of the mater like to be perchaunce miscaried if ye knewe it before admonish you and him that this is spoken of S. Gregorye in deede but as proceeding from a maruelouse humilitye and lowlines In like maner as he wrote to Sainte Augustine oure Apostle in the commendation of his doings wherein yet vndoubtedly he was a great doer him selfe many wayes as by the Historie of Bede clerely appeareth Otherwise though Richaredus doings be most gloriouse and worthy of perpetuall renoune yet shal S. Gregory match him or passe him Neither shal he altogether be voide of his worthy cōmendation concerning his care for the refourming of Spaine and repressing of heresies there either by his authority or by his learned woorkes Verely Platina witnesseth that by the meanes of this Gregorie the Gothes returned to the vnite of the Catholike faithe Whiche appeareth not at that time any otherwhere then in Spaine Hearken farder what Nauclerus one that you ofte reherse in this your booke writeth of him In super Beatus Gregorius c. Beside this Saint Gregorie compelled the Ligurians the Venetians the Iberians which had confessed their schisme by their libell to receiue the Decrees of the Councell of Chalcedo and so broughte them to the vnitye of the Churche He reduced them from Idolatrye partely by punnisshmente partlye by preaching the Brucians the people of Sardinia and the husbandmenne of Campania By the good and mightye authoritie of his writings and by Ambassadours sente in conueniente time he sequestred from the bodye of the Churche the Donatiste Heretiques in Affrique the Maniches in Sicilie the Arrians in Spaine the Agnoites in Alexandria Onely the Heresie of the Neophites in Fraunce rising by Symoniacall bribes as it were by so manye rootes was spreade farre and wide againste the whiche he valiauntlye foughte labouring mightelye against it to the Queene Brunechildis and to the Frenche Kinges Theodoricus and Theodobertus till at the lengthe a Generall Councell beinge summoned he obteined to haue it vtterlye banned and accursed This saith Nauclerus of other Countries Now what nede I speake of our Realme the matter being so notoriouse that by his good meanes by his studye and carefulnes we were brought from most miserable idolatrie to the faith of Christe And therefore as our Venerable Countreyman Bede writeth we maye well and oughte to call him our Apostle Rectè nostrum appellare possumus debemus Apostolum Quia cum c. For saith he wheras he had the chiefe Bisshoprike in all the worlde and was the chiefe Ruler of the Churches that long before were conuerted to the faithe he procured oure Nation that before that time was the Idols slaue to be the Church of Christ. So that we may well vse that saiyng taken from the Apostle All were it that he were not an Apostle to other yet is he our Apostle We are the seal of his Apostlesship in our Lord God It appeareth that S. Gregorie had to doe in Ireland also by his Ecclesiastical authoritie Thus much haue I here spoken of S. Gregorie either necessarily or as I suppose not altogether without good cause Surely not without most deape harte griefe to consider how farre we are gon from the learning vertue and faith whiche we nowe almost one thousande yeares past receiued at this Blessed mans handes Which altogether with our newe Apostle M. Horne heere is nothing but Grosse ignorance And this blessed and true Apostle of our English Nation no better then the child of perdition That is as he meaneth in dede a plaine Antichriste I pray God ones open the eyes of our Coūtrie to see who is in dede the true Antichrist and who are his messengers and forerunners thereby carefully and Christianly to shun as well the one as the other Christ is the Truth it selfe as him selfe hath said Who then is more nere Antichriste then the teacher of Vntruthes And what a huge number hath M. Horne heaped vs vppe in that hitherto hath bene answered being litle more then the third part of his boke Yea in this very Diuision how doe they muster Some of them haue already ben touched But now to the rest more at large let vs ouer runne the Diuision shortly againe First besides his false translation putting for repairing the order of Ecclesiasticall discipline to make a new fourme thereof as though that King altered the old Religion of his realme and placed a newe neuer vsed before in Christes Churche as M. Horne and his fellowes haue done in our Countrie beside this pety
a general councel for that beloÌ„ged to the Emperour vvho in that time vvas busie in the vvarres against the Saracens He waited saith Platina for the returne of the Emperour This Constantinus surnamed Pogonatus about the yeere of the Lord 680. calleth the Bishoppes out of all coastes vnto a general Councel in his letters of Sommons to Donus but committed to Agatho Bishop of Rome Donus beinge dead he admonisheth him of the contention betvvixt the sea of Rome and Constantinople he exhorteth him to laie aside al strife feruencie and malice and to agree in the trueth vvith other addinge this reason For God loueth the trueth and as Chrysostome saith He that wil be the chief amongst all he must be minister vnto all by vvhich reason made by the Emperour it may seeme that the pride of those tvvoo seates striuinge .260 for superioritie and supremacie vvas a great nourishment of the Schisme vvhich vvas chiefly in outvvarde shevve only for doctrine He protesteth that he vvill shevve him selfe indifferent vvithout parciallitye to anye parte or faction onely seekinge as Godde hath appointed him to keepe the Faith that he had receiued vvholye and vvithout blotte He exhorteth and commaundeth the Bishoppe of Rome not to be an hinderaunce but to further this Councell vvith sending such as are fitte for such purpose The bishop of Rome obeyeth the Emperours .261 commaundement And the like letters the Emperor sendeth to George Bishop of Constantinople and others The Emperour sat in the councell him selfe as President and moderatour of al that action hauing on his right hande a great company of his Nobles and of his Bishoppes on his lefte hand And vvhan the holy Ghospelles vvas broughte foorth and laide before them as the .262 iudges vvhose sentence they ought to follovve as it vvas also vvonte to be doone in the fornamed Councels The deputies for the bishoppe of Rome stande vppe and speake vnto the Emperour in moste humble vvise callinge him moste benigne Lorde affirminge the Apostolike seat of Rome to be subiect vnto him as the seruant vnto the Maister and beseechinge him that he vvil commaunde those that tooke parte vvith the bishoppe of Constantinople vvhich had in times paste brought in nevve kinds of speache and erronious opinions to shevve from vvhence they receiued their nevve deuised Heresies The Emperour commaundeth Macarius Archebishoppe of Antioche and his side to ansvveare for them selues And after diuerse requestes made by him to the Emperour and graunted by the Emperour vnto him the Emperour commaundeth the Synode to staie for that time The .5 Chapter Of the sixt Generall Councell holden at Constantinople vnder Pope Agatho Stapleton MAister Horne as he sayeth returneth againe to Agatho wherin he doth wel for this hath bene an extrauagant and an impertinent discourse But he returneth withall to his accustomable dealing sayinge that pope Agatho of his owne authoritie coulde not call a councell Which neither his authour Platina sayeth nor anie other nor he him self proueth He coulde M. Horne haue called a Councell and so he did call at Rome at this verie tyme a great Councell of an 1â—5 Bisshoppes our contreyman S. Wilfryde Archbisshoppe of Yorke and the Apostle of Sussex being one of them without the Emperor and such as this Emperour him selfe confesseth to be a general Councell But because the schisme of the Monothelites was deaply setled in Grece and was fast and depelye rooted by continuance of .46 yeares not onely in the Bisshoppes of the chiefe sees as Constantinople Alexandria Antiochia and others but also in the Emperours withall full godly and wisely that the Councell might be more effectuall and fruytful he thowght good to worke with the aduice and assistance of the Emperour and so he did And this his godly pollicy had his prosperouse successe accordingly Maister Horne will nowe recite to vs his collections oute of this Councell called the .6 Generall Councell that he hath gathered but how well and fytlye to proue his matter ye shal anone vnderstande for the confirmation of his newe erected primacy And first he glaunceth at the See of Rome surmising that because the Emperour exhorted the Pope to vnity the pride of Rome and of Constantinople striuing for superiority and supremacy was a greate nourishment of the Schisme This is a lewde and a false surmise For the Emperour in that place expressely telleth by the reporte of the Greeke Patriarches the cause of that stryfe to be quòd verba quaedam nouitatis intromissa sunt that certaine newe doctrine was brought into the Churche And will Maister Horne haue his vnproued surmise to waighe downe the Emperours plaine confession The malice you talke of Maister Horne is in your self â–ª It was not in Pope Agatho The Emperour protesteth you say to kepe the faith that he hadde receiued wholy and without blotte Woulde God all Christen Princes had done so You hadde hadde then Maister Horne no place in our countre to preache and sette forthe your damnable heresies You say farder The Bisshop of Rome obeyed the Emperours commaundement And this also you note verye solemnely in your Margin But both your text and your margin by your leaue lyeth For the Emperour in his letters to the Pope wherein he inuited him to this Councel saith plainely Inuitare rogare possumus ad omnem commendationem vnitatem omnium Christianorum necessitatem verò inferre nullatenus volumus Well we may moue you and praye you to fall to an vnity but force you by no meanes wil we Where then is this forceable commaundemeÌ„t that you imagine You woulde faine haue the Emperours very Imperiall ouer Popes and Bisshoppes You woulde as Auxentius the Arrian Bisshop did Laicis ius sacerdotale substernere bring vnder the Laye Princes foote the Priestly right and Authoritye You woulde haue them as the Arrians persuaded Constantius 〈◊〉 being sette to gouerne one thinge to take vpon them an other thing This with your predecessours hereticall Bisshoppes your prelatship also would Emperours shoulde take vppon them But they expresselye refuse so to doe they proteste the contrary they abhorre suche lewde clawebackes You adde farder that in the Councell the holye Gospelles was brought forthe and layde before them as the iudges This is a flatte vntruthe The Councel hath no such woordes I meane that the Gospels were Iudges No doubte but by the ghospels the Councel did iudge and determine the controuersies and had alwaies those holy books before theÌ„ as also a Signe of the Crosse and other relikes as Cusanus writeth But a Iudge must speake and pronounce a Sentence Such is not the Scripture but such are they that be as the Apostle saith Dispensatores mysteriorum Christi the dispensours of the mysteries of Christ the ordered teachers of his woorde the successours of his Apostles But you to make folke wene that Scripture alone were the only Iudge as though the booke could speake and geue sentence it selfe without a Teacher or
waye of oppression or threats as by vertue of his allegeance or in payne of displeasure but by gentle admonitions and requestes So did al the good Emperours before procede with bishops in ecclesiastical matters Constantin the first Theodosius the first and second Valentinian the first Marcian Iustinian and nowe this CoÌ„stantin the fyfte not as with their subiectes or vassals in that respect but rather as with their Fathers their pastours and by God appoynted Ouerseers The obedience then that pope Agatho so much and so ofte protested proceded of his owne humylytie not of the Emperours supremacy of greate discretion not of dewe subiection namelye in Ecclesiasticall causes For seinge the Emperour in his letters so meke so gracious and so lowly he could doe no lesse and the better man he was the more he did but shewe him selfe againe lowly and humble also But when Emperours would tyrannically take vpon them in Church matters there lacked not Catholike bishops as stoute and bolde then as the pope was humble nowe So were to Constantius that heretical tyran Liberius of Rome Hosius of Spayne and Leontius of the East So was to Valentinian the yonger S. Ambrose to Theodosius the seconde Leo the first to the Emperour Anastasius pope Gelasius to Mauritius S. Gregory But M. Horne if this do fayle hath yet ready at hand an other freshe iolye coulorable shifte that the Emperour euen by Agathos owne confession occupied the place and zele of our Lorde Iesu Christe in earth to geue iuste iudgement and sentence in the behalf of the truth Nowe are we dryuen to the harde wal in dede This geare ronneth roundly And yf I should nowe thowghe truelye interprete and mollifie thys sentence accordinge to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and the mynde of the speaker then woulde you so vrge and presse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the bare letter that I shulde haue much a doe to rydde my handes of you But God be thanked who hath so prouided that Agatho him self doth so plainely declare his owne meaninge and your false handling of the matter euen in the verie nexte sentence immediatly folowing that al the worlde may euidently see that for al your holy euangelical pretences and cloked cowlours ye seke not the trowthe but to tryfle to toy and contentiouslie to confounde all thinges For it followeth That ye woulde voutchsauf saieth Pope Agatho to the Emperour to exequute the cause of Christes fayth according to equitye and the instructions of the holy fathers and the fyue generall Councells and by Gods helpe to reuenge his iniurie vppon such as condemne his faythe And this saying of Agatho M. Horne may wel serue for a ful and a sufficiente answere to al your boke for princes intermedling in CouÌ„cels and for making lawes concernyng matters ecclesiasticall You see by this place their gouuernement is no other but to ayde and assiste for putting in execution the decrees of Councels and the holy Fathers Instructions Wherfore ye may put vp your ioly note wherwyth ye would seame to furnishe and bewtifie your matter and margent here in your purse and the lesse yt be sene the better for yowe for any good that euer your cause shal take by it M. Horne The .87 Diuision pag. â—2 b. In the next session the Emperour sitteth as 268. President and Moderatour accompanied vvith many of his nobles sitting about him On his right hande sate Georgius the Archebishop of Constantinople called nevve Rome and those that vvere vvith him on the other side vpon themperours lefte hande sate the Legates of the Archebishop Agatho of old Rome these tvvo as .269 agent parties VVheÌ„ they vver thus set the Emperours Secretary brought foorth the Ghospels putteth the Emperour in mind vvhat vvas done the sessioÌ„ before and desireth his maiesty to cause Macarius and his party to bring out likevvise their testimonies as the Legats from Agatho of old Rome had don for their party The Emperour coÌ„maundeth Macarius obeith and desireth that his books may be red the Emperour commaundeth they should so be Stapleton M. Horne here noteth the sitting of the Popes Legates on the lefte hand and the Bisshop of Constantinople on the right hand which either maketh nothing for the abasing of the Legats authority either that doth not so abase them as doth that I haue said auaunce them that they are rehersed both in the naming and placing as wel in this very place as throughout al this Councel before al other bisshops beside the prerogatiues which we haue and shal declare they had in this Councel And M. Horn must remeÌ„ber that in the fift general Councel they had the right hand as him self coÌ„fesseth Neither was the Emperour President in this Councell neither the bisshops the Agent parties as M. Horne here vntruly saith but when the Sentence came to be pronounced the Bishops alone gaue it without themperour A moderatour in dede in external order and quyet to be kept theÌ„perour was not only in this but in al other CouÌ„cels as I haue shewed before out of Cusanê° but not in geuiÌ„g solutioÌ„s to the reasons propouÌ„ded or in geuing final senteÌ„ce in matter of doctrin as the word Moderatour in the scholes soundeth aÌ„d as M. Horn would haue it here to be vnderstaÌ„ded M. Horne The .88 Diuision pag. 52. b. After the shevving of the allegations on bothe sides the Legates of old Rome desier the Emperour that they may knovve yf the aduersaries agree on the tenour of their tvvo forsaid suggestioÌ„s The aduersaries beseche theÌ„peror that they might haue the copies of theÌ„ theÌ„peror coÌ„mauÌ„deth that vvithout delay their request should be fulfilled The books vvere brought forth and sealed vvith the seales of the Iudges and either of the parties This againe .270 proueth that the Popes Legats vvere none of the Iudges but one of the parties And so in the eight ninth and teÌ„th actioÌ„ the same order of doing is obserued in like sort as before in such vvise that no one in the Synode neither the vvhole Synod doth .271 any thing vvithout licence and the direction of the Emperour the president and chief ruler in al those causes Stapleton M. Horne is now harping vpon the same stringe that he was harping vpon before twise in the former leaf that the Popes Legats were no Iudges but parties and plantiues In the one of the former places he geueth no cause but will haue vs belieue hiÌ„ vpoÌ„ his bare word Here aÌ„d in the other he geueth vs a cause that nothing coÌ„cludeth for hiÌ„ but rather agaiÌ„st hiÌ„ The Monothelits to make their matter beare some good couÌ„tenaÌ„ce brought forth freshely many authorities of Athanasius and other fathers on their side The Popes Legats espying the chopping and chauÌ„ging the cutting and hewing the mayming and mangling of those testimonies â–ª discried this falshod to the CouÌ„cel VpoÌ„ this an exacte search coÌ„ference and coÌ„parison was made of other bokes in theÌ„perous and patriarchs of CoÌ„staÌ„tinople library
of S. Augustyne that thys was the gwise and fasshion of the anciente Church The lyke sleight M. Horne vseth touching pilgrimage the whiche his owne canon highly comendeth thowghe full wisely and discreetly yt preuenteth and reformeth some abuses Wherfore ye shall heare the whole canon I will shifte no worde but only froÌ„ Latyn into the english In the former canoÌ„ the couÌ„cel forbadde that priests shuld goe on pilgrimage without the coÌ„sent of their Bishoppe to Rome or to Towres a towne in France where at the tombe and reliques of blessed S. Martyn innumerable miracles were donne and wrowght as amonge other Gregorius Turonensis Bishop there and a faythfull reporter not by vncerteyne hearesay but by presente eiesight moste fully declareth The whiche holy reliques the hugonotes of late in FraÌ„ce haue with moste vilany dishonored and consumed After which inhibition it followeth For say the Fathers some meÌ„ which vnaduisedlie vnder the cowlour of prayer goe in pilgrimage to Rome to Towres and other places doe erre very much There are priestes and Deacons and other of the Clergie which liuing dissolutely thinke them selues to be purged of their sinnes and to dooe their office if they ones come to the foresaid places There are neuerthelesse laye menne whiche thinke they haue freelye sinned or may freely sinne because they frequente these places to make their prayers in There be some Noble men which to scrape and procure mony vnder the pâ—etence of their pilgrimage to Rome or to Towres oppresse many poore men and that which they doe vpon couetousnesse only they pretend to doe for prayers sake and for the visiting of holy places There are poore men which doe this for no other intent but to procure to them selues a greater occasioÌ„ to begge Of this number are they that wandering hither and thither faine neuerthelesse that they goe thither or that are so foolisshe that they thinke they are by the bare view of holie places purged of their sinnes not considering that saying of S. Hierome It is not praise worthiâ— to hâ—ue seene Hierusalem but to haue liued vertuouslie at Hierusalem Of all whiche things lette vs looke for the iudgemente of our Emperoure howe they maye be amended But those who haue confessed themselues to their parrissh Priestes and haue of them taken counsell how to doe penance if imploying them selues to praier and almes geuing and to the refourming of their life and maners they desire to goe on Pilgrimage to Rome or els where are of allmen to be commended for their deuotion The Fathers also desire the Emperours healpe and assistaunce not his Order as you vntruely reporte for publique peÌ„naunce Beside if it had pleased you yee mighte haue caste in also a woorde or twoo more Vt secundum ordinem Canonum pro merito suo excommunicetur That accordinge to the order of the Canons he may according to his deserts be excommunicated And now good Reader iudge thou how truely how wisely or how to his purpose this gere is brought furth of M. Horne and what a singular good grace this man hath so wel to plead against him selfe and his fellowes for the Catholiques And nowe would I be in hande with Leo sauing that Maister Hornes Marginall Note seemeth to take me by the hand and to staie me a while And yet we wil foorth with shake him of and desire Maister Horne to ouersee his text ones againe and to square his Note to his Texte and not his text after his peruerse and preposterous order to his note I say then M. Horne ye haue no words nor mater in your text to cal Carolus Magnus Gouernour in Ecclesiastical causes and because beside your Note Marginall ye note the matter also so fast in your text which is not in the Fathers text saying the Fathers saye in playne speach that he was ruler of the Church in Ecclesiasticall causes I wil note as fast as you and that is your one false lying in your text and the other in the margent Onles ye may by some new Grammar and like Diuinitie proue that in seruitio suo in his seruice is Englished also In ecclesiastical matters You tell vs farder M. Horne that in this Councell of Ments the States were diuided The Bisshoppes and secular Priestes by them selues The Abbottes and Religious by them selues But you tell vs not wherein euery State was occupied and busied in that Councell That in deede made not for you The Councel then saith In prima turma consederunt Episcopi c. In the first rewe sate the Bisshops with their Notaries reading and debating vppon the holy Ghospel the Canons of the Church diuers works of the holy Fathers and namely the Pastoral of S. Gregory searching and determining thereby that which belonged to holsome doctrine and to the state of the Church In the seconde rew sate the Bisshops and approued Monks hauing before them the rule of S. Benet and seking therby to better the life of Monks to encrease their godly conuersation In the third rew sate the Laye Nobilitie and Iudges But what to doe M. Horne To conclude of matters of ReligioÌ„ as the laie Burgeses and GeÌ„tlemen do in our ParliameÌ„ts No no Neque nos neque Ecclesia Dei taleÌ„ consuetudineÌ„ habemus Neither we nor the Church of God haue any such custom or maner But there thei sate In mundanis legibus decertantes c. Debating in worldly lawes searching out Iustice for the people examininge diligently the causes of all that came and determining Iustice by al meanes that they could Thus were the States in that Councel diuided vnder that Noble Emperour Charlemain And what could this Note helpe you M. Horne or relieue you except it were that you would geue a preuy nippe to the order of late Parliaments where the laie not onely of the Nobilitie but euen of the Commons whose sentences in treatie of Relligion neuer sence Christe suffred were euer hearde or admitted doe talke dispute yea and conclude of Religion and that in the highest and most secrete mysteries thereof to the consequente of a Generall alteration You woulde no doubte as gladdelie as Catholiques haue the treatie and decision of suche matters in youre owne handes onely as in deede all Protestauntes beside you Caluin Melanchthon the Magdeburgenses with the reste doe expresselye teache as I haue bothe in this booke and otherwhere declared But this is the difference You are miserable clawbackes and as Caluin writeth to extolle the Ciuill Magistrate you spoyle the Churche of her dewe Authoryte But the Catholikes thinke it not mete to flatter in ReligioÌ„ But to geue that which is Cesars to Cesar and that which is Gods to God Excepete we shoulde saye that now you will haue Religion decided in parliament and when the Prince shall otherwise be affected you will not haue it so decided and that your Religion is Ambulatoria a wandring and a walking Religion teaching one thinge to day and an other to
to the Scottes theyr firste Bishop Palladius as Prosper writeth a notable Chronicler of that age Why dyd he also send into thys Ileland S. Germaine Bishoppe of Antisiodorum to bryng by the Apostolicall Authoritie the Britaynes from the heresye of the Pelagians as the sayed Prosper witnesseth Lett vs nowe come to the tyme of the Saxons conuerted by S. Augustine And then shall we fynd so manie and so full testimonies both of the popes primacie and of the princes subiection as I trowe M. Horne him selfe as impudent as he is can not nor will not denie them Which I do ouerpasse by reason they are readely to be foūd in our worthy coūtriemā S. Bede lately set forth by me in the English tongue and in the Fortresse also adioyned to the same storie I will nowe adde this only that from the time wherin Beda endeth his storie to the conquest of the foresaied William there appeareth in our domesticall stories a perpetuall and continuall practise of the saied primacie in this realme by the popes as well in those bookes as be extant in printe as in other As in Asserius Meneuens that continueth the storie from the death of Bede to the yeare of our Lorde 914. in Henricus Huntingtoniensis Gulielmus Malmesburiensis Alphredus Beuerlacensis Rogerus Houedenus Florilegiū siue Mattheus Westmonasteriensis Chronica Iohānis Londoniensis and many other yet not printed that I haue not sene and which are hard to be sene by reason of the greate spoyle of such kind of bookes of late made in the suppressing of monasteries and colleges The which suppression and it were for nothing else but for the losse of so many worthy Chroniclers can not be to much lamented the losse being incomparably greater then the losse of any princes treasure The case is nowe to be pityed for that the verie Librarie of the Vniuersitie of Oxforde hath felt the rage of this spiteful spoile not so much as one booke at this howre there remaining This is one of the worthy fruits of your new ghospel M. Horne As appereth also by the late vprores in these low Coūtries wher by the Gueses not onely the Monasteries but the Libraries also namelye of the grey friers in Antwerpe be most shamefully defaced the bookes burnt to ashes and the olde monuments destroyed The naming of Oxforde bringeth to my remembrance the noble and worthy foūder of the vniuersity there I meane Kinge Alurede In whose tyme there was at Rome a special schole or colledge for English mē priuileged ād exēpted frō al taxe ād tollages by pope Martin the .2 at the desire of this King Who sent to him for a gift a peece of the holy crosse This King beīg learned hīself loued entierly learned mē especially Ioānes Scotus that trāslated out of the Greeke tōg the works of Dionysius Areopagita whoō he vsed moste familiarly This Alurede being but yet yong was sent by the Kinge Edeluulphus his father to Rome accompanied with many noble men where pope Leo the .4 did confirme him and toke him as his sonne by adoption and did also annoynte and consecrate him King of Englande The manifolde practise of the said primacy continued from this Kings tyme euen to the tyme and in the tyme of blessed S. Edward the immediate predecessour of William sauing Harolde who reigned not one full yeare In the twenty yeare of the said King Edwarde the blessed man Wulstanus that was before a monk and prior there was consecrated bisshop of Worceter A man of suche notable vertue and such austerity of lyfe as he resembled the olde vertuouse and renowned religiouse men As one that among all other his notable qualities continued so in praying studiyng and fasting that somtymes in foure dayes and foure nights he neuer slepte and that litle reste which he toke was vpon a foorme in the Churche vsing none other bolsterre but his booke wherin he prayed or studied This man I saye was made bisshop and confirmed by the popes Legats being then in the realm before the Cōqueste Our authour doth not write this of vncertain heresay but of certain knowledge as a mā of that age and one that as it semeth had sene this blessed man ād talked with him To discourse vpon other particularities as vpon the continual appeale to Rome vpon willes charteres and such other writings sent from Rome to auoide tediousnes I doe purposely forbeare But I will nowe notifie to the good reader two thīgs only First that from the tyme of the good Kinge Offa in the yere of our Lord .760 who gaue after the example of Inas not long before him to the Pope as to the Vicare of S. Peter the Peter pence euen to the cōquest the payment of the said Peter pence hath continued and they were frō tyme to tyme leuied the Kings taking good diligent order for the sure paymente of the same Secondly that from the tyme of S. Augustine the first Archebisshop among the Saxons both he and al other Archebishops euen to the conquest receaued their palle from Rome an infallible token of their subiectiō to the Pope as Peters successour vpon whose holy tombe the palle is first layed ād after taken of and sente to the Archebisshop As these two tokens of subiection cōtinued frō tyme to time to the conqueste so they continewed also without any interruption onlesse it were verie seldome and for a litle space by reason of some priuate controuersie betwixte the Pope and the Kinge euen from thence to our freshe memorie beside many notable things otherwise in this realme since the conquest continually practised that serue for the declaration and confirmation of the said primacy Perchaunce M. Horne wil say to me Sir though I specifie nothing before the conquest to iustifie the princes supremacy yet in the margent of my booke I doe remitte the reader to a booke made in King Henry the .8 days Wherein he may see what doinges the Kings of England had in this realme before the conquest for matters Ecclesiastical A prety and a clerklie remission in dede to sende your reader for one thowsande of yeares together in the which ye shoulde haue laide out before hī your best and principal proufs to seke out a book he wotteth not where and which whē it is at lēgth foūd shal proue your matter no more substātially then ye haue done hitherto your selfe And therefore because ye worke by signes and profers only and marginal notes I wil remitte both you and my reader to a marginal note also for your and his ful aunswere Nowe then lette vs goe forwarde in Gods name and see whether Kinge William conquered bothe the lande and the Catholike faithe all at ones Lette vs consider yf this Kinge and the realme did not then acknowledge the Popes Supremacy as much and as reuerently as any Christian prince doth now liuīg I say nothing of the othe he toke the day of his coronation
by Fabian and by Polychronicon that he would sometime like a cōquerour for his owne lucre and safetie both displace the English prelats as he did the Knights and Nobles of the realme to place his owne Normans in their roome and also haue a peece many times of his owne mind cōtrary to the precise order of the Canōs and lawes ecclesiastical And this not only Fabian and Polychonicon but before them both Williā of Malmesbury doth also witnes Such faults therfore of Williā Cōquerour ād of others that your authour and other reporte in discōmendation serue you notwithstāding such beggarly shiftes you are forced to vse for good argumēts ād substātial bulwarks to build your newe supreamacy vpō And nowe might I or anie wise mā much meruail to cōsider how that ye haue ladē and freighted this one page of your boke with no lesse then .6 quotatiōs of the Polychronicō and yet not one of them seruing for but rather againste you yea eche one ouerthrowing your purpose And therfore because ye would be the lesse espied as throughout your whole discourse so here ye neither name boke nor chapter of your authour Beside that it is vntrue that ye write as out of Polychronicon that the popes Legates kept a Councell before which was kept at Winchester For he speaketh of none other but of that where Stigādus that we spake of was degraded and afterward kept streighly in prison by Williā Conquerour And the Bishops and Abbats ye speake of were not deposed by the King but as your self write by the kings meanes and procuremēt Which was as Fabiā reporteth all to the entent he might preferre Normans to the rule of the Church as he had preferred his Knightes to the rule of the temporaltie that he might stand in the more suertie of the lande M. Horne The .119 Diuision pag. 77. a. In like maner did his sonne William Rufus vvho made Anselm Bishop of Yorke and aftervvard trāslated him to Cantorbury But within a while strife and cōtention fel betwene him and Anselm for Anselm might not cal his Synods nor correct the bishops but as the kīg would the king also chalēged the inuestiture of bisshops This king also forbad the paying of any mony or tribut to Rome as saith Polychronicon The like inhibition made Henry the first and 417. gaue Ecclesiastical promotions as his auncestours had doone vvherefore Anselme fel out vvith the kinge and vvould not consecrate suche Prelates as he beynge a Lay man had made but the Archebishop of Yorke .418 did consecrate thē and therefore Anselme .419 fledde the Realme In an other councel at London the spiritual condescended that the kinges officers should punish Priestes for whoordome The cause of this decree as it seemeth vvas that a Cardinall named Ioannes Cremensis that came to redresse the matter after he had enueighed againste the vice vvas him selfe the same nyghte taken tardy In the which councell also sayth Polydore the kinge prouided many thinges to bee enacted which shoulde greatly helpe to leade a Godly and blessed life After this the kinge called an other Councell at Sarisbury Sommoning thither so well the chief of the Clergy as the people and swore them vnto him and vnto VVilliam his sonne Whereupon Polydorus taketh occasion to speake of the order of our Parliamente though it haue a French name yet in deede to be a councell of the Clergy and the Laitie vvhereof the Prince hath a full ratifiyng or enfringing voyce And not only saith he this king did make Bisshoppes and Abbottes vvhich he calleth holy rites Lavves of religion and Church ceremonies as other likevvyse cal it ecclesiastical busynes but the Princes of euery natiō begane euery wher to claim this right vnto thē selues of namīg and denouncing of Bisshops the which to this daie they hold fast with toothe and nayle Also Martinus here noteth Vntil this time and frō thence .420 euē til our daies the king of Hungary maketh and inuestureth according to his pleasure Bisshops and other Ecclesiastical persons within his Dominions Stapleton Ye shal nowe good reader see a more euidente testimonie of M. Hornes meruelouse newe logike and diuinity wherof I spake euen now For ys not this a worthy and a clerkly conclusion The wicked king Rufus woulde not suffer the blessed and learned archbishop of Caūterbury Anselme to cal hys Synodes and correcte the Bishoppes he challenged the inuestiture of Bishoppes he woulde paye no tribute to Rome Ergo the Quene of Englande is supreame head of the Church of Englande The losenes and fondnes of thys argumente euery childe may sone espie By this argument he may set the Popes crowne vppon the head of the wycked and heathen Prince especiallie the tyrāte Licinius with whome Eusebius cōparing the good and Christian Emperour Constantine cōpartner with hym in the empire ād not in hys wyckednes writeth thus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. First then he watched and obserued the Priestes of God that were vnder hys gouernemente and wheras they had nothing offended hym he by curiouse and subtyle working deuised pretensed matter to trouble and vex◠them When he could fynd no iuste matter to accuse them withall he made a proclamatiō that the Bishoppes for no maner of matter should assemble together and that yt shoulde not be lawfull to any of them to repayre to theire neighbours Churches or to call any Synode or place to consulte and debate vppon suche thinges as apperteyned to the commoditye of the Churche Thys was hys dryfte by the wich he sowght they re destruction For either the Bishoppes were in daunger to be punished ▪ yf they trāsgressed his law or yf they kepte the lawe they broke the order and custome of the Churche For they could not aduise thē selues in any weighty matters but in a Synode And thys wicked mā hated of God gaue thys commaundement that he might worke quite contrarye to the doeinges of good Constantyne whome God loued For he such was his reuerēce to God suche was his studie and endeuour to haue peace and agreemente assembled Gods priests together Th' other cōtrariwyse wēt about to dissolue those things that were wel ordeined and to breke peace ād agreemēt Thus farre Eusebius of the heathen tyran Licinius Ye play therfore M. Horn like a very spider that gathereth nothīg but poison out of sweet herbes and so doe you out of good chronicles Ye are like to the flie that loueth to dwell in the horse dong I would to God your Reader M. Horne would either aduisedly weigh what an ill King this Williā Rufus was by the most agreable consent of all writers and what straūge and wōderful tokēs were sene in his time ād how he ended his life being slaine by the glaūsing of an Arrowe as he was a hūting or the excellēt learning cōstancy and vertue of the B. Anselmus and the great miracles that
is his anker hold and for this cause aswell the whole allegation is here producted as also one peace of the same set in the first page of his whole boke as a sure marke to direct the reader by and as yt were a Sampsons poste for M. Horne to buyld his boke vppō But take good head M. Horne yt be not a true Sampsons poste and that it bring not the whole howse vpon your own head as yt doth in dede Wherunto good reader seing M. Horne hath chosen this as a notable allegation to be eied on setting the same in two notable places I woulde wishe thee also to geue a good eye thereunto and to see if it can anye way possible make for him I say then M. Horne that this allegatiō goeth no further then that the Prince by his cyuill and worldlye power shoulde assiste and maynteyne the Churche and her doctrine And that this allegation directly and rowndly proueth the contrarye of that for the whiche ye doe alleage yt that is that yt proueth the ecclesiasticall authoritie and not the cyuill to be cheif and principall in causes ecclesiasticall And that in effecte the whole tendeth to nothing else but that as I sayde the Princes shoulde defend the Churche I will not stande here in ripping vp of wordes with you or in the diuersity of reading and that some old copies haue who hath committed his Churche to be defended of theire power and that your hath deliuered to be committed seameth to stande in your translation vnhansomly I will saye nothing that credere and committere is all one in Latin Let this goe I finde no faulte with you for translation but for yl application Yf ye had brought this authority to proue that the prince should defende the Churche for the whiche ende and respecte it was writen I woulde say nothing to you But when ye will bleare our eies and make vs so blinde that we shoulde imagine by this saying of Isidore that the king is Supreame Head of the Churche or that his assente is necessarie to the Synodes of Bishops and coūcelles I wil say to you that the cōtrary wil be much better gathered of this allegatiō The very firste wordes wōderfully acrase your newe primacy and somwhat also your honesty peruersly trāslating nōnunquā which is somtime or now and thē into oftētimes But let yt be for nonnunquam sepe let them oftētymes haue the highest authoritye in the Churche Vnlesse they haue yt styll they can not be called the Supreame Heades in all causes ecclesiastical And so theis very words make a good argumēt againste your primacy But now M. Horne what is the cause whie they haue this high authority either somtimes or oftētimes Isidore straytwayes sheweth the cause that they may as your self translate fence by theire power the ecclesiastical discipline Ye heare thē the scope and final purpose of this allegation for Princes authority in matters ecclesiasticall that is to defende the Churche And therefore as I sayde yt is more sutely to reade tradidit defendendam then tradidit cōmittendā And for this cause the Emperours call them selues not capita Ecclesiae not the heades of the Churche sed aduocatos Ecclesiae but the aduocates of the Churche as your self tel of themperour Friderike Goe we now forth with Isidorus But first I aske of you M. Horne that make the Princes to be heades of the Churche and to haue so muche to doe in matters ecclesiasticall that the Bishops can decree nothing that shoulde be auaylable withowt they re special ratification for the setting forth of the which doctrine ye are content for this tyme that priestes shal be priestes and may sweare by their priesthod and not by theire aldermanship or eldership whether suche authority in Princes be absolutelie necessarie to the Churche or no Yf ye say no thē conclud you against your self ād your whole boke Yf ye say yea then conclude you against the truthe and againste your authour who sayeth that suche authority of Princes in the Church is not necessarie but for to punishe those that contemne the worde of doctrine the fayth and discipline of the Churche Of whome haue we receiued M. Horne the worde of doctrine the faythe and discipline of the Churche Of the Apostles and theire successours the Bishoppes or of the Princes I suppose ye will not saie of Princes Then must ye graunt that for these matters the primacy resteth in the clergy of whom the Princes thē selues haue receiued theire faith ād to whom in matters of faith and for the discipline of the Churche they must also obey and as case requireth set forth the doctrine of worde wyth theire temporal sworde Whiche if they do not but suffer throwghe theire slacknes the faythe and disciplyne of the Churche to be loosed God who hath committed his Churche to be defended by theire power wil exacte an accompte of thē as your authour Isidore writeth and your self do allege So that now we see euen by your own allegatiō in whom the superiority of Churche matters remayneth that is in the clergy And that Princes are not the heades but the ayders assisters and aduocates of the Churche with theire tēporal authority And to this ende all that euer ye haue browght in this your boke cōcerning the intermedling of Princes in church affaires cā only be referred And this your own allegatiō is aswel a sufficiēt answere to al your argumēts hitherto laid furth for the princes supremacy as a good iustification of the Clergies primacy Wherfore if you harken but to your owne allegation and will stande to the same as you wil your Readers to do placing it as I haue said in the fore fronte of your booke you must nedes stand also to the next parcell folowing making clerely for the Clergies superioritie in Ecclesiasticall causes These words I mean that withī the Church the power of Prīces shuld not be necessary sauing that that thing which the Priests are not able to do by the word of doctrine the power of the prīce may cōmaūd by terror of discipline And I doubt nothing but that we are able wel and surely to proue as wel by his other bookes as by his gathering of all the Councels together into one volume yet extāt that Isidorus thought of the Popes Primacy then as Catholiques doe now For an euident proufe wherof behold what this Auncient and learned Bisshop Isidorus writeth He saith Synodorum congregandarum authoritas Apostolicae sedi commissa est Neque vllam Synodū generalem ratam esse credimus aut legimus quae non fuerit eius authoritate congregata vel fulcita Hoc Authoritas testatur Canonica hoc Ecclesiastica historia comprobat hoc Sancti Patres confirmant The Authoritie of assembling Coūcelles is committed to the See Apostolike Neither doe we beleue or reade any General Councell to be ratified whiche was not either assembled or confirmed with her Authoritie
appeareth also most euidently in Eusebius writing of this Constantine in this sort Quae ab Episcopis in publicis conuentibus editae erant regulae sua consignabat confirmabat authoritate He signed and confirmed with his Authoritie suche Canons or rules as the Bisshoppes in their assemblies had decreed But how As though without his royall assente the Canons shoulde haue beene voide and of no Authoritie as you woulde make folke beleue No but as the same Eusebius writeth in the same place Ne reliquarum gentiuÌ„ principibus liceret quae ab eis decreta essent abrogate to the intent that it should not be lawful for Princes of other Nations to abrogate or refuse the Bishops Decrees And the reason he addeth immediatly Cuiusuis enim Iudicis sententiae SacerdotuÌ„ Dei IudiciuÌ„ anteponenduÌ„ esse For the Emperour estemed that the iudgemeÌ„t and determination of the Priests of God was to be preferred before the Sentence of any other what so euer Iudge This man therefore M. Horn to tel you it ones again can be no fitte exaÌ„ple of the like gouernment now by you mainteined in the Quenes highnes person and al other the inheritours of the Realme of England Now as Constantine did set the Clergie at their liberty whether they would answere in any secular court So the noble Emperour Theodosius set as wel al the Laitie as the Clergie at the like libertie and ordeined that the plaintife in any cause any time before the sentence might breake of from his ordinary Iudge and bring the matter whether the defendaÌ„t would or no to the Episcopal audience The which ordinaunce the Great Charles aboute .400 yeares after renewed to be inuiolably obserued of all his subiectes as wel the Romaines and the Frenchemen as the Almanes the Bauarians the Saxons the TuringiaÌ„s the Frisons the Galles the Britanes the Lombards the Gascons the Beneuentanes the Gothes and the Spaniards As ye do with Constantinus Magnus so doe ye with Theodosius Magnus and with Carolus Magnus constitutions bringing them forth out of your blind Cacus denne to dasel and bleare the Readers withal as though the Bishops helde their ordinarie iurisdiction Ecclesiasticall by these decrees onely which do nothing thervnto appertaine but shew a marueilouse priuilege geuen to them to heare and determine also all teÌ„porall matters brought before theÌ„ And if these graunts wer afterward abrogated yet was that no abrogatioÌ„ to the iurisdictioÌ„ that is proprely the ecclesiastical iurisdictioÌ„ and your author doth not say that such grauÌ„ts were afterwards abrogated but doth reason against them that saide they were abrogated Neither is his booke entituled De origine iurisdictionuÌ„ but de iurisdictione Ecclesiastica And was this Petrus Bertrandus then as you say a Bisshop a Cardinal and one of our best learned men in the Canon and Ciuil Lawes Suerly then may your Petrus Cugneâ—ius thoughe ye auaÌ„ce him as a worthy knight go hide his head in a corner For againste him and his folishe fonde arguing againste the ecclesiastical liberty is all his booke writen as I haue before declared Wherfore all this your tale that the bishops held their iurisdiction ouer theire clergy by Constantine his ghifte is as true as your other adiuncte that he gaue the Bishops of Rome power and authority ouer other Bishoppes and ouer al churches He might well as he did in dede reuerently agnise and by his Imperial authoritie confirme and corroborate the vsual authoritie of the Popes holines but that the original of this authority as ye imagine came froÌ„ him ys a great vntruth For euen before his time and after not onely the Christians but the verie infidelles suche as were acquainted with the maners and fashions of the Christians did wel knowe that the Bishop of Rome was counted the cheif bishop amonge them al. And for this cause Ammianus Marcellinê° an heathnish cronicler writeth that though Athanasius the good bishop were by a councell of Arrian bishoppes condemned yet that notwithstanding ConstaÌ„tius sonne to this Constantinus and an Arrian and his plain open enemie was ernestlie in hande with Pope Liberius also to confirme their sentence and was by him banished because he would not condescende to theÌ„perours request Againe before the time of this Constantinus Paulus Samosatenus bishop of Antiochia being depriued by a councell of bishoppes and an other appointed by the sayde councel in his stede kepte stil possession nothing regarding either the sentence of depriuation or of excommunication The Emperour Aurelianus being certified of this matter gaue commaundement that he whome so euer the bishoppe of Rome with the bishops of Italie should acknowledge for the bishop of Antiochia should be taken and accepted for the true bishop And so was Paulus by this Emperours coÌ„maundement though he were a very infidell thruste out and an other set in What proufe haue ye now M. Horne that the Pope hath his authoritie from Constantine Surely Gentle Reader none other but the Donation of Constantine whiche he him selfe doth not beleeue to be true and therefore dothe qualifie it with these woordes if it be not forged Whiche being so why doeth your wisedome then M. Horne alleage it Neither wil I here though Leo the 9. doth constantly testifie that he sawe and had him selfe the originall of this donation laide by ConstaÌ„tinus owne hand vpon the bodie of S. Peter though Eugubinus answereth to all Laurence Valla his obiections againste this donation yea though Balsamon a Grecian and an open ennemie to the Pope alleageth this Donation as authentical I wil not yet I say resolue any thing for the one or the other side I will take it as I find it and take you withall as I find you and that is a plaine open lyar For howsoeuer the Donation be the Pope toke not his Supremacy of this Donation but had it before of an higher Emperour and that is of Christe him selfe Whiche the foresaid donatioÌ„ doth also openly testify but not in the .86 as ye falsly quote it but in the .96 distinctioÌ„ M. Fekenham The .166 Diuision Pag. 111. a. At the first Councel holden at Hierusalem for the reformation of the controuersy that was than at Antioche touching Circumcision and the obseruation of Moses Lawe decree was made there by the Apostles and Priestes vnto the beleuers at Antioche that they should absteine from these fowre chiefe and necessary thinges viz. ab immolatis simulachrorum à sanguine suffocato à fornicatione à quib custodieÌ„tes vos bene agetis The whiche first councell was there assembled by the Apostles of Christ. The Decrees and Lawes were made there by theÌ„ The coÌ„trouersy at Antioche was by them reformed ordered and corrected without all commission of any temporal Magistrate King or Prince M. Horne God be thanked that S. Luke maketh to vs a sufficient report of this councell vvho maketh no mention of any .598 Priest there present as you vntruely report onles
And to begyn with the first action of the said Councel and to followe M. Hornes steppes with a litle tracing ther sterteth vp at the first I will speake with the least a brace of lyes besyde other vaine and impertinent talke Of hys Iudges whereby he woulde haue the Reader to thinke that these noble men were Iudges in the decision and determination of matters ecclesiastical he commeth altogether to short as ye shal anon vnderstande And therefore this shall be the first lye The second lye is that he saieth The Emperour prescribed a forme after which they muste determine the matters in controuersie For in al the Actes of that Councell there appeareth no such fourme or prescription made It is vsual with M. Horne in euery Councel to report such a prescription But as he hath often saied it so hath he not once proued it or shewed it by any one Authority but his owne which is a singular authoritye to lye as lewedly allmost as M. Iewell Yet to bleare the Readers eye and to seame handsomly to furnish his matter by some president and example he layeth forth for his proufe that these Iudges gaue sentence to depose Dioscorus the Patriarche of Alexandria and others This is alltogether false For firste they were no competent and ordinary Iudges being mere laye men especially in causes ecclesiastical to depose a Bishoppe Secondlye puttyng the case they had bene lawefull and ordinarye Iudges yet was yt no finall and iudiciall sentence For a final sentēce must decide and determine the matter by an absolut cōdemnatiō or absolution which was not done here this pretensed sentence being as your selfe write cōditional So that this their iudgment semed good to the Emperour to whom they referred the whole matter And here by the waye falleth out an other vntruth for the Nobles them selues doe not cal this saying a Iudgemēt but say yt semeth vnto vs iust Which words by lawe importe no final iudgemēt Fourthly and laste this was no iudgemente neither was Dioscorus deposed here in this action for in the beginning of the next action the Iudges confesse that sentence was not yet geuen vppon Dioscorus but in the thirde action and that not by theis Iudges as ye cal them but by Pope Leo his deputies and the residew of the Bishoppes without any referring of the matter to th' Emperor as the Iudges doe here The rest ye talk of in this place is of no weight and yf it weyeth anie thing yt weieth against you as Marcians oration whych tendeth to this that in new questions and dissensions of religion we must haue a speciall regard to the doctrine teaching and writing of the former fathers and coūcels which rule and forme of Iudgemēt prescribed by him you quit left out as a rule in dede importing a plaine destructiō of your new gospel Now if the making of an oration by a lay man imploieth any authority voice or iuriseictiō in the Coūcell then were many lay men the ambassadours for their Princes that made orations there yea and found many faultes to in the Church and desired the reformation of them members and Iudges of the late Councel of Trent which is notoriously false and so is that also that ye write of the noble men at Chalcedo And whereas they founde faulte wyth the populare acclamations of the Bishoppes which of a great zele to the catholik faith cried out against Dioscorus and other that deposed the godly Bishop Flauianus and that they would not receiue Theodoretus nor heare such matters as he had to propose because he for the time helde against Cyrillus and other Catholikes and that these noble men endeuoured to set an order and quietnes among them doth plainly shew wherein these noble mens office did rest as nothing touching the definition of anye matter spiritual but to prouide that al things might be don with order indifferency and quietnes For if a man consider what disorder tumulte crueltie yea and murder too fell in the second Ephesin Councell whiche customably is rather called a Conuenticle and a cōspiracy for the maintenaunce whereof ye make Theodosius a very godly Emperour and how that Dioscorus and his cōfederats would not suffer the Catholique Bishops Notaries as the manner was to write the actes there done but thrusted them out and put in Notaries of his owne at his pleasure howe he came to the other notaries and brake their wrytinges and fingers to howe that he forced the bishops to subscribe to a blanke that is in cleane paper wherein nothyng was writen howe that Dioscorus would not suffer the epistle of Leo the Pope sent to the Councel to be read and finally howe that he slewe the blessed Bishop Flauianus he that I say cōsidereth and wel weigheth the premisses and that a great numbre of those schismatical bishops were also with Dioscorus at Chalcedo shal sone perceue what nede there was of these noble mens assistance that they might wel haue to doe there thoughe not in ruling and iudging any spiritual matter yet in the indifferent ruling and direction of the Catholike Bishopes external doings and to see that al things might procede with quietnesse and without parcialitie Which answere ones made will serue also for many other General Councels But what a wicked Cham are you M. Horne that reueale to the common people in your vulgare bookes the faults and disorders of your most holy and reuerent Fathers the Fathers of so famous and so learned a Councell Verely Constantine the Greate that noble Emperour would cast his Imperiall garment he said to hyde a Bisshops faulte if by chaunce he should see any And becommeth it your vocation bearing the roume of a Bisshop your self to tel the people of the Bisshops whot scholes of their want of modestie and of ouershoting them selues You a Bishop of Gods Church Nay your sprit sheweth it selfe more bucherly then Bishoply and as mete to carie a rake as a Rochet M. Horne The .49 Diuision pag. 32. a. In the next action the Iudges and Senate after rehersall made vvhat vvas done before dooe propounde vnto the Synode vvhat matters vvere novv to be consulted of and vvilleth them to make a pure exposition of the faith and that vvithout any sinister affection declaring that the Emperour and they did firmely kepe and beleue according to the faith receiued in the Nicen Councel vvherevnto the Bisshops also accorde and saith that noman maketh or may attempt to make any other exposition Certaine of the Synode desired to heare the Symbol of the Nicen Councel recited which the Senate and Iudges graunted vnto them Stapleton By this also it may easely be sene wherein the duety and office of these Ciuil Magistrats did stād videl to see the Bishops requests of reading this booke or that booke this euidence or that euidence put in execution And so it maketh rather against M. Horne then with him M. Horne The .50 Diuision Pag. 32. a. After
that it vvas agreed vpon by the vvhole Synode that Dioscorus should be deposed the Synode vvriteth vnto the Emperours Valentinianus and Martianus saiyng in this fourme Grieuous diseases neadeth both a stronge medicine and a wise Physition For this cause therfore the Lord ouer al hath appointed your godlines as the best and chiefe Phisition ouer the diseases of the whole world that you should heale them with fitte medicines And you most Christian Emperours receiuing commaundemeÌ„t froÌ„ God aboue other men haue geuen competent diligence for the churches framing a medicine of coÌ„cord vnto the Bishops .147 This thus in vvay of Preface said they declare vvhat they haue done touching Dioscorus they shevve the cause and reasons that moued them thervnto both that the Emperour shoulde consider his vvickednesse and also the sinceritie of their sentence Stapleton Now loe M. Fekenham must nedes yeld and geue ouer For euen the whole CouÌ„cel to the number of .630 Bishops doth confesse saith M. Horne the princes supremacy in causes ecclesiastical it is wel it is not yet in al causes Ecclesiastical And therefore this note is fastened in the Margente as it were with a tenpeny naile and yet al not worth a hedlesse pinne For I beseech you Maister Horne howe can this notable conclusion of yours take anye anker holde of any saiyngs of the Councell by you here alleaged How farre and how deaply your sharpe sight can pearce I know not But for my part I must confesse my selfe so blind that I can see no cause in the world why ye should furnish your margent with such a iolie note Wel I perceiue euery maÌ„ can not see through a milstone But yet eyther my sight and my braine to faileth mee or all this great prouf standeth in this that the Councell calleth the Emperours the best and chiefe physitions ouer the disseases of the world for framing a medicine of concorde to the Bisshops By my trowth it is wel and worshipfully concluded and ye were worthy at the least to be made a poticarie for your labour Sauing that it is to be feared if ye shuld procede on the body as ye doe nowe with the soule ye woulde kil manie a poore mans bodie with your olde rotten drugges as ye do now kill many a sowle with your pestiferous poysoned drawght of heretical potions they take at your hands But nowe to answere to you and to your so farre fette phisike I pray yow M. Horne why doe ye cut of the tayle of your owne tale Why do ye not suffer the fathers to speake their whole mind And to ruffle a litle in M. Iewells rhetorycke what were the fathers stayed with the choygnecoughe and forced to breake of they re matter and tale in the myddest Mark well gentle reader and thow shal see the whole CouÌ„cel of .630 bisshops set to schole and kept in awe and not suffred to vtter one worde more then M. Horne will geue them leaue For the next wordes that immediatly followe in the same matter are these Pontificibus coÌ„cordiae medicinaÌ„ machinantes vndique enim nos congregantes omne commodastis auxilium quatenus factae interimantur discordiae paternae fidei doctrina roboretur For yow say the fathers to the Emperours assembling vs from all places haue holpen al that may be to pacify and kil these diuisions and dissensions and that the fayth and doctrine of our fathers may be strenghthened What worde is here M. Horne that any thing towcheth your purpose Here is nothing but that the couÌ„cel was assembled by their good help which as I haue often declared serueth not your turne to make them supreame heads Nowe because throwgh their meanes the Councell came together in the whiche a quietnesse was set in religion the Councell calleth them physitions yea and the chiefe as they were chiefe in dede in respecte of their cyuill authoritie wherewythe they did assiste the Councel and did helpe by this ministerie of theirs not by anie iudicial sentence or other Ecclesiasticall acte which ye shal neuer shewe to quiet and pacefie the greate dissensions then raigning and raging And so were they phisitions in dede but the outwarde not the inward phisitions The fathers were the inwarde phisitions They made the verye potion for the disease And because we are ons entred into the talke of phisitions they were the very phisitions of the sowle The scripture saieth of the king regem honorificate honour the kinge yt saieth also of the phisition honora medicum Honour the phisition But what sayeth yt of the prieste The priestes sayeth S. Paule that gouuerne well are worthy of double honour againe obeye your rulers meaninge the Ecclesiasticall rulers for they watche to geue a reckoning for your sowles And the Ecclesiasticus sayeth humble thy sowle to the preste So that ye may see M. Horne the priestes to be the true and highest phisitions as farre passing and exceding the other physitions as the sowle passeth and excedeth the bodie and then must the spirituall primacye nedes remayne in them And that doe these Iudges here euen in this Action expressely proteste and confesse against you For they say touching the point of doctrine then in question Quod placuit reuerendo Concilio de sancta fide ipsum nos doceat Let the Reuerend Councel it selfe teach vs and infourme vs what is their pleasure touching the holy faith You see here they toke no suprem gouernemente in this cause ecclesiastical in determining I say the true faith as you will make Princes beleue they may and ought to doe they yet being the Emperours deputies but lerned humbly of the holy Councel what their determination in such matters was Thus at the length your great mighty â—ost is thwyghted to a pudding pryck Neither shal ye be able of al theis .630 bishops to bring one that mayntained your pretensed supremacy And when he proueth yt to you good reader by theis 630. bisshops or by anie one of them I dare say M. FekeÌ„ham wil take the oth and so wil I to For it is as true as the nobles gaue senteÌ„ce to depose Dioscorus and others Who is not as yet deposed and that wil I proue by M. Horne him self who sayth that in this actioÌ„ the whole synode agreed that Dioscorus should be deposed and so ful pretely doth he cal back that he sayd not fyftene lynes before and proueth him self against him self that their saying was no sentence M. Horne 51. Diuision Pag. 32. b. In the fourth Action vvhen the rehearsall of al things passed before vvas done the Iudges and Senate asketh if all the Bisshops agree vvhervnto they ansvvered yea yea The Synode had requested the Iudges and the Senate to make suite to the Emperour for fiue Bisshops vvhich othervvise .148 must be deposed as vvas Dioscorus vvhich they did and made this relation vnto the Synode That the Emperour perceiuing the humble suite of the Synod doth licence them to determine