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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A84760	A sober answer to an angry epistle, directed to all the publick teachers in this nation, and prefixed to a book, called (by an antiphrasis) Christs innocency pleaded against the cry of the chief priests. Written in hast by Thomas Speed, once a publick teacher himself, and since revolted from that calling to merchandize, and of late grown a merchant of soules, trading subtilly for the Quakers in Bristoll. Wherein the jesuiticall equivocations and subtle insinuations, whereby he endeavours secretly to infuse the whole venome of Quaking doctrines, into undiscerning readers, are discovered; a catlogue of the true and genuine doctrines of the Quakers is presented, and certaine questions depending between us and them, candidly disputed, / by [brace] Christopher Fowler & Simon Ford, [brace] ministers of the Gospel in Reding,	Fowler, Christopher, 1610?-1678.; Ford, Simon, 1619?-1699.	1656 (1656)	Wing F1694; Thomason E883_1; ESTC R207293	63,879	81

be all you your self hold of perfection or no we will not judge But we shall shew you anon that those of your perswasion are not altogether so modest It is well if your self be so when you will please to speak out which we scarce believe you will do in a charge against your self of your own drawing up But we hope you will allow us to ask you a few questions upon this Article also seeing you stand upon your justification Q. 1. To what purpose is all this Did any of your pretended Accusers ever accuse our Saviour Christ for mockery or commanding impossibilities in this command of perfection or for falsehood in his commendation of Nathaniel or the Apostle Paul for designing an impossibility 2. Qu. Whether the perfection commanded by Christ or that which is commended in Nathaniel or aimed at by Paul be a perfection of degrees and that as high as that of God himself or a perfection of kind truth or sincerity Say not that we coine distinctions of perfection out of our own braine Doth not the Scripture call Job a perfect man Job 1. 1. and yet chap. 3. gives us a sad instance of his imperfections and Job himself renounceth perfection in himself chap. 9. 20 21. Doth not the Apostle Paul himself in one chapter affirms and deny himself to be perfect Phil. 3. 12. 15. And therefore seeing as we hope you will not allow any contradictions in Scripture there a necessity to distinguish of different sences wherein they affirme and deny And if we distinguish amisse we wish you or your companions would do it better Nay we suppose both these sorts of perfection necessarily held forth in the Scriptures of your own quotation For the command of our Saviour saies not Be yee as perfect as your Father which is in Heaven but Be yee perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect Perfect as doth not imply more then a perfection of the same kind which perfection we professe a perfection consisting in truth and sincerity of holinesse the perfection of Nathaniel as perfect denotes a perfection of degrees which in the comparison with an infinitely holy God we deny to be attainable by any Creature or to be asserted concerning any Creature without highest blasphemy But a perfection of degrees suitable to the capacity of finite Creatures we hope for in Heaven and a perfection of degrees suitable to the capacity of mortall creatures we presse towards your selves and endeavour with Paul to present all our hearers unto Jesus Christ in the same at the last day 4. About your forth Article concerning rejecting all meanings Sect. 15. and interpretations of Scripture we shall take a more convenient time to reckon with you in a distinct Question subjoyned hereunto Only we make bold to ask you here also Qu. Whether to interpret Christs and the Apostles sayings be not injuriously reflected upon by you as a deniall that they meant as they spake and whether a man may not mean as he speaks and yet not to be understood without interpretation we are so charitable to think that divers of the Familists and Quakers mean as they speak and yet we cannot understand their meaning by their speaking in divers odd phrases used by them without interpretation would you would give us a Lexicon of them 5. Your fifth Article we shall speak more largely to in Sect 16. this place You say that you and your Complices assert that Christ did not speak one thing and intend another when he commanded men not to sweare at all but to let their yea be yea and nay nay Whereas we that are scornfully enough by you called Orthodox do both sweare our selves and teach others so to do And you add the reason as good a one as you please to allow us because otherwise we might happily go without our maintenance for want of swearers in Courts of Justice against those Hereticks that refuse to pay us Tythes And in your Margin to give us a touch of your learning that we may take it for an act of self-deniall in your after-declared contempt thereof and not an act of envious declaiming against the Grapes you cannot reach you quote the Originall in that prohibition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with this note That it is a prohibition so universall that it admitteth of no exception Upon which Article we first observe two things 1. That it was very warily done of the Founders of the Quaking Religion who are by many judicious men supposed to be Papists to insert an Article in their new Creed to excuse them from being discovered by refusing the Oath of Abjuration which they may under the shelter of your Principles do and yet passe undiscovered Secondly we quaere We observe secondly that the Quakers refusing to sweare according to the Ceremony now required in England of kissing the Bible and swearing by the contents of that Book is suitable to their Doctrine that the Scriptures are not our rule and by consequence that God will not judge us according to the contents of the Bible so that to call God to witnesse according to the contents of that book according to which they conceive he will not judge were absurd It may be if a new forme of an Oath such as by the light within them were required they might be perswaded to sweare Qu. 1. Whether our Saviour Christ spake or intended any thing which might clash with the expresse command of God elsewhere And if not then surely Christs words in this place must not be taken so unlimitedly as you say seeing we find a command Deut. 5. 13. Thou shalt feare the Lord thy God and sweare by his name So also Deut. 10. 20. Qu. 2. Whether our Saviour Christ forbid any part of Gods morall Worship or no If not then we are assured he forbids See Jer. 4. 2. Is 45. 23. which peculiarly concerneth us as referring to Gospel times and is therefore quoted by the Apostle Rom. 14. 21. with such a variation of the phrase swearing into confessing as plainly proves that to sweare by God is sometimes a necessary part of our confession and acknowledgment of him not swearing without any exception For we find it frequently made a part of Gods morall Worship to sweare by his name and it is also joyned in the mentioned Scriptures with fearing and serving God Qu. 3. Whether our Saviour Christ cut off by this command any necessary meanes of deciding controversies between man and man or confirming truth in matters of testimony If so surely he would thereby have rendred his Doctrine justly obnoxious as being destructive to humane society If not we are certain he forbids not all swearing without exception for the Epistle to the Hebrewes tells us that an Oath of confirmation is an end of all strife Heb. 6. 16. Q. 4. Whether the Author in his former Article setting forth God as a Pattern of perfection to us doth not therein allow us in some Cases to sweare

whether you vvill submit your Revelations to this Touchstone or no If so you yeild the question If not then whatever Commands or Prohibitions you receive in the way of revelation you must obey vvhether agreeing or disagreeing to the written Law of God And then how far the examples of Abraham offering up his Son and Phinehas executing vengeance yea and vvhen time serves Ehuds message from God to Eglon may be witnessed in you as you speak we know Judg. 3. 19 not and shall pray vve never may by experience Q. 9. Whether the Scriptures do not establish it selfe as the rule of Faith in referring all pretenders to new light to the Law and the Testimony and telling us expresly That if they speak not according to this word it is because there is no light in Isa 20. 8. them And whether the light in you and in your companions be not darknesse that will not undergo this tryall Q. 10. Whether the phrases of walking in the Law of the Lord keeping Gods Testimonies taking heed to a mans way according to Gods word not wandering from Gods Commandements Ps 119 1 2. 9 10. 21. 30. 35. 51. 102. 110. 133. 157. laying Gods Jugdments before him going in the path of Gods Commandements not declining from Gods Law not departing from Gods Judgments not erring from his Precepts ordering his steps in Gods word not declining from his testimonies Are not cleare evidences that David made the written word that then was his Rule And you owne Davids Rule for yours p. 8. Q. 11. Whether you think in your conscience that Deut. 5. 32 33. doth not convincingly prove the Scripture to be the Saints rule The words are Yee shall observe to do therfore as the Lord your God hath commanded you and before vve have the repitition of the written Law You shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left c. Your answer in your book is in summe P. 7. that all the Scripture was not then written But did not Moses therein establish as much as was then written for the rule the Saints of those times were to walk by Besides these words immediatly refer to the Morall Law before repeated in the same Chapter And will you exclude that from being the Saints rule as well as other Scriptures Then indeed there vvill be no duty or sin but as a man thinks Q. 12. Whether you deale honestly with Calvin in that P. 20. Scripture Eph. 2. 20. whilest you tell your Readers that he saith in Terminis That the Apostle doth in that Scripture intend Jesus Christ to whom the Prophets and Apostles did beare witnesse Whereas Calvin saith expresly It is without doubt that the foundation in this place is taken for the Doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles And therefore Paul teacheth that the Quin fundamentum hic pro doctrina sumatur minime dubium est Et itaque docet Paulus fidem ecclesiae in hac doctrina debere esse fundatam Calv. in l. Churches faith ought to be founded on this Doctrine And there is not any mention at all of those vvords in Calvin vvhich you quote from him To say the truth vve much vvonder how you could have the brazen face to father a saying upon Calvin vvhich he never said till vve looked upon Marlorate whose mis-quotation or rather the fault of his Printer it seemes deceived you for there vve find among other things there ascribed to Calvin this passage you mention But it concerned a man of your acutenesse not to have taken up a report from another vvhen Calvins vvorks are so common in every Shop and Study that vvith a little paines more you might have conversed vvith the Originall Author whence Marlorate makes his collections But it seemes you vvere vvilling to snatch at any thing that seemed to support your cause vvhere ever you found it And yet you shewed no part of ingenuity in your usage of Marlorate himself vvho together vvith that passage vvhich you quote and under the same note by which he distinguisheth Calvins vvords cites Calvin point blank against you saying that the Apostle shewes in that place how the Ephesians vvere made fellow Citizens vvith the Saints Nempe si fundati sint in Prophetarum Apostolorum Doctrinâ to wit If they be founded on the Doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles These words and others to the same purpose immediatly precede your owne quotation vvhich renders your dis-ingenuity the more culpable as shewing a vvilfull designe of abusing so reverend a name to delude your Readers Q. 13. In a vvord tell us ingenuously Whether we must or must not beleive the Doctrines which the Scriptures lay downe upon their owne authority If vve must vvhy do you quarrell at those that call them the rule ground foundation of faith seeing every intelligent man will tell you that it is the same thing to beleive the Doctrines of the Scripture upon the Scriptures authority and to make the Scriptures the ground rule foundation of faith If vve must not then tell us what superadded to the Scriptures owne Authority renders their Doctrines more credible We observe the Papists state this question as you do But they vvill answer us ingenuously That they beleive the Scriptures because the Church hath confirmed them And the Socinians are of your mind also but they deale fairely too and speak out That they will beleive the Scriptures as far as reason votes with them Would you speak out vve doubt you must confesse you are very neer these last in your judgment Why do you not tell us plainly that you beleive the Doctrines laid down in the Scripture as far as the light within you concurs with them And then vve shall know vvhat you mean in denying the Scriptures to be the rule and ground of faith Viz. That as much as pleaseth you you vvill beleive and vvhat dislikes you shall be cashiered as an old Declarative or an Almanack out of date as some of your Cater-cosins the Familists have blasphemously called the Bible Q. 14. Lastly Whether God vvill not judge every man vvho lives within the sound of the Gospell by the written word If not what meanes the Apostle Paul when he saith that as many as have sinned in the Law shall be judged by the Law in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my Gospel Rom. 2. 12. 16. And seeing we are upon this subject give us leave to enquire yet a little further what are those Books out of which the dead shall be judged and whence one day God will draw the rule of his proceedings in the day of Judgment as you may find Apoc. 2. 12. If God vvill judge us out of the written word after death surely we are not to be blamed if we study that Statute-Law and labour to conforme our beleif and practise thereunto whilest we live which must judge us when we dye Or else we pray you

you think fit to conceale not without some ground of suspicion that you were rather willing to pick out what you could best sport your self and your credulous Reader withall then to give a solid answer to his Arguments as they come from his hand with such animadversions as he is sufficiently able to make to the disingenuities of your reply will abundantly vindicate him and the Truth Onely we cannot but acquaint you that you have mistaken the mark very much in the arrowes of bitter words which your discourse levels with too much virulency against that holy man Had you dealt with one of those sorry things in black whose Doctrine and life are scandals to the Gospell and blemishes to their holy Profession you might have promised your selfe an easie beliefe from the Readers of your Book to whatsoever load of reproches you should have laid upon him but the man you deale withall is so well known for Piety Meeknesse Humility Heavenly-mindednesse tendernesse of conscience and all other Ministeriall Qualifications that you may as well perswade them the Snow is black as fasten those reproches upon him with any hope of gaining credit to your self or your book except amongst those who are either totally strangers to him or given up to so potent a prejudice against all that beare the name of Ministers that they can easily admit into their Creed whatsoever evill can be said of them But to more sober Readers and especially those of the parts where he lives you might be easily convinced had you any principles left to bottome a conviction upon that the unjust imputations you every where bespatter him withall will render you suspected in all the rest of your book for the falsehood detected in them And we must tel you withal that we cannot prevail wth our reasons or consciences to perswade themselves that you have that infallible Spirit which you pretend to dictate to you seeing we know you to be so grossly mistaken in the censures you spend upon him and divers of his fellow-labourers Nor can we judge that language inspired by the holy spirit of God when we consider that there is no Gall in that Dove that those holy men of God who wrote as they were moved by the H. Ghost tell us that Saints must put away all clamour and bitternesse and evill speaking Ephes 4. 31. and wrath That the wisdome that is from above is gentle Ja. 3. 17. Ja. 1. 16. and that if any man bridle not his tongue his religion is vain And lastly that if you be not a better Master of Language then Michal the Arch-angel or we deserve worse usage then the Devill himself the light in which the Apostle Jude spake will tell you but that you think him too low a Scholar to instruct you that have gotten through the Schoole wherein he was a Disciple that it ill becomes you to bring against your Antagonists a railing accusation But if that convince not you Iude 9. and your brethren of the incivility and irreligion of your tongues and pens in this way we shall refer you from Michaels Dispute to Enochs Prophesie wherein you will find that hard speeches will beare an Indictment at the last Assise as well as Vers 14. hard blowes And in the mean time we hope God will heare our prayers and free us from the mercy of your Hands who find what cruelty there is in the tender mercies of your Prov. 12. 10. Tongues Mean while in hope that a soft answer will turn away wrath Pro. 15. 1. and that we may set you a fairer Copy to write after when you next put pen to paper we shall endeavour by Gods assistance Pro. 26. 4 5. to answer so much of your papers as concernes us in common with other Ministers without answering your passions And Sir upon our first view of your Pamphlet we cannot Sect. 1. but tell you that if your Title-page were calculated for the Meridian of your Book you mistook your self extreamly For Tituli remedia pixides venena to let passe the Title it self wherein you abuse the glorious name of Christs Innocency to patronize your own guilt we cannot but wonder how Seneca an Heathen comes to be so great in your esteem that you that will not allow us to quote Hierome Augustine Calvin or Luther yet think your Book Epistle p. D. credited by the wrested Testimony of a Pagan Philosopher prefixed thereunto Sect. 2. But to let that passe and proceed to your Epistle which only because you direct it to the whole body of the Ministery we suppose our selves concerned in The rest of your Book because we are assured from your Adversary that he will speedily take it in hand we suppose you will give us leave to be so ingenuous as to leave to his able Pen without interpreting it any wise to proceed from any consciousnesse of our own weaknesse that we meddle not with it And here in the first place we con you many thanks for the charitable advice you begin withall and assure you that the more we think of the day and houre which in your entrance you mind us of and that account we must hereafter therein give to the righteous Judge of Heaven and Earth the more are we excited to the consciencious discharge of that office which however you revile we are sufficiently assured he will own at that day to be held by commission from him and the more are we encouraged against all that evill entertainment which for the discharge thereof we meet withall from men of corrupt minds 2. Tim. 3. 8. reprobate as concerning the Faith And we hope we shall take warning even from an Adversary to walk worthy of our high and holy calling and not wear our Livery to the disgrace of our Master But we are jealous that whatever use we may make of your counsell you intend it to far another purpose to wit rather as a slye way of casting reproach upon us by insinuating that we stand in need of being so advised then out of any intention to do us good by that advice I wish you were in your language is no other then I proclaime your are not Sect. 3. And although you tell us immediatly after that you will not undertake Epistle pag. 2. rashly to judge us or accuse us to the world from which crime of rash judgment you think your self sufficiently secured by comparing our works with our rule the Scriptures and then proceed as you think cum privilegio to misapply Scriptures to slander us yet we must retort upon you that which you give in way of advice to us that the hower is coming when all coverings shall be removed and the vailes pluckt off from Ep. p. 1. all faces and then we doubt not but you will be found not only a rash but a false accuser and that to the world in Print notwithstanding that colour and covering which you hide

it withall For do you believe in earnest that those Prophets of whom Sect. 4. Micah speaks that teach for hire and divine for money or those Mic. 3 11. Mar. 23. 5 6 7. whom our Saviour notes for doing their works to be seen of men for standing to pray in the Synagogues and the corners of the streets for loving the uppermost roomes at Feasts c. are characters suiting the men of your indignation whom you endeavour to degrade from the esteem they have as Ministers of Christ by such intimations as these You pretend to something of Scholarship and reason and cannot but know except your new light have quite put out the old that the Priests and Prophets that Micah speaks of were such as made their hire the end of their teaching and prophesying and accordingly accommodated their Doctrines to the corrupt humours of those from whom they expected their reward a thing which a fixed maintenance by Tithes or otherwise by Law established secures our Ministers from the tentation of It is you and your brethren that would make us such as you slander us to be by reducing us to voluntary contributions which would be quickly detained from us as often as we should dare to differ from the opinions or reprove the Vices of our Neighbours And who are you Sir that judge our hearts when you tell Sect. 5. us what we aime at and set up as our end in teaching which you do more then once and twice in your Epistle and Book How long have you been seated in the Throne of the most high God and made a Judge of the secrets of mens hearts that you tell us that we preach for hire and do our works to be seen of men and that we love the upper-most roomes c. As for standing to pray in the Synagogues if you consult the place whence you pretend to draw that parallell between the Pharisees and us you will find that the action is not condemned but the end to be seen of men they neglecting in the mean time to pray in their Mat. 6. 5. Closets where man could not take notice of their devotion And so this charge except you will say with some of your companions that you know the heart comes under the same G. Fox see the perfect Pharisee p. 49. and 4. condemnation of slander with the rest The corners of the streets if they be used by any persons in these daies for religious uses we know not who herein resemble the Pharisees more then those of your own Fraternity and Sisterhood too who though they meddle little with prayer it is to be seared any where yet choose the streets and Market-places to vent their pretended Declarations from God Your next Paragraph endeavours to fasten upon us the imputation Sect. 6. of Persecuters and upon your selves the character of Christian sufferers To which we shall say only thus much in this place That we adore that gracious Providence which keeps us out of the reach of your malice otherwise we are assured we should not be long without that persecution which you make the badge of true Ministers for better Doctrines and practises then those which some of yours suffer for In the mean while we have our shares sufficiently in the persecution of your tongues and hands as far as you can by impoverishing us and our Families by detaining our just and legall subsistence disturbing us in the exercise of our publick worship c. which we suffer constantly from those of your fellowship and communion What further needs to be spoken to this head as it concernes your usage from us will be taken up in its due place and more largely debated with you hereafter See Sect. 9 10. That we are not the Ministers of Christ because we indent Sect. 7. for our maintenance where we sit down in a charge and that we sue for the tenth of their increase those that owne us not for their Pastors is the summe of your charge To the first branch whereof we can divers of us reject it as a meer slander many Ministers in this Nation living upon as free a contributionmaintenance as any of your selves but in a more orderly way Their people contribute to those Pastors that reside among them and not to wandering Preachers whose faces they seldome see and from whose standing converse with or inspection over them they can receive no benefit And others of us maintain many Lectures either simply or joyntly for which we receive as little as the Quakers themselves would wish And as for those that either indent for maintenance or enter upon the maintenance already setled by Law we are sure they are not blame-worthy for that to gain the repute of Ministers they do not prove themseles worse then Infidells in not providing for themselves and their Families which the Apostles light makes a badge of one that hath denied the faith the proper 1 Tim. 5. 8. character of some of yours who wander up and down to the manifest and apparent ruine of themselves and those that they are bound to provide for Nor are we at all startled at the practise of the Apostles under an extraordinary command so confessed in effect by your selves in your own practise for why else do you not travell about to declare without Purses or Shooes on your feet or Staves in your hands commands immediatly subjoyning to that of giving freely what they had Mat. 10. 8 9 10. freely received in the same place of Scripture and appearing to be such if we compare Luke 22. 36. where Christ in another exigency of time allowes them to make that provision for themselves which in the former command he forbad them For we are sufficiently assured that the Apostles themselves were maintained by the Church in which they laboured excepting only the Apostle Paul and his companion Barnabas and that only Act. 20. 34 See 2 Cor. 11. 7. v. 9. and 2 Thes 3. 8 9. at Ephesus Corinth and Thessalonica where little to their credit too if we mark the tart reflexions of the Apostle upon their sordidnesse they wrought with their hands for speciall reasons assigned in the Texts themselves yet withall the said Apostle asserts it as an Ordinance of God and that founded upon reason and Scripture too that they that preach the Gospel should live by the Gospel and withall affirmeth his owne and his brethrens power to have claimed the same from them which they received from other Churches We forbeare transcribing Texts you may find this and more 2 Thes 3. 9. and 1 Cor. 9 from verse 6. to the end of the 14. which Scripture we observe in most of the Pamphlets published by the Adversaries of Ministers maintenance is passed over with deep silence and so expect it will be by you and your brotherhood or answered by the common refuge of Hereticks the decrying of interpretations and inferences upon Scripture When you further urge

upon you by those Witnesses vvho vve are assured vvill stand to their vvords vvhenever they are called to make them good The Quakers Doctrines 1. That they are equall with God as holy just and good as Sect. 54 God himself Affirmed by G. Fox and J. Nayler before Witnesses Perfect Pharisee p. 3. See also the Relation of the irreligion of the Northern Quakers vvho attest it in a Book called the perfect Pharisee published by five Ministers of Newcastle 2. Suitable hereunto vvas the blasphemy of one of your Shee-Quakers lately in hold in this Towne vvho being convented before the Major of this Corporation and asked what she was and what was her name roundly answered and stood to it againe the next day I AM THAT I AM which will be attested upon Oath by the Major and one of the Constables 3. Suitable to this was the blasphemy of another of your Brethren who meeting with a godly Londiner occasionally being in this Town on a Lords day lately and asking him the way as he met him to one of our Churches answered him in these words The Church is in God and the Church is God 4. That the being of God is not distinct from them that are begotten by him Sword of the Lord by James Atkinson Quaker 5. That the Nature and Glory of the Elect differ not from the Nature and Glory of the Creator For the Elect are one with the Creator in his Nature enjoying his Glory That the Elect is not distinct from the Creator Howgill and Burroughs two Quakers in an answer to Reeve 6. And that God is not distinct from living Creatures for in him living reatures lives moves c. 7. That God is three persons or subsistences they say is a lye That there is no distinctions of persons in the Godhead Sword of the Lord by J. Atkinson G. Fox Errand to Damascus 8. That the Soul is a part of the Divine Essence See perfect Pharisee p. 6. 9 That Jesus Christ is God and man in one person they say is a lye 10. They deny and detest this Doctrine That Christ being the only God and man in one person remaines for ever a distinct person from all Saints and Angels notwithstanding their Vnion and communion with him Sword of the Lord by James Atkinson 11. That the person that Son of God which died at Jerusalem is not the Redeemer of man from sin but the Redeemer is in every man that light by which he is given to see him c. The discourse of a Quaker vvith Jo Toldervy Foot out of the snare p. 7. 12. That Christ is in every man even Heathen Indians and in the Reprobates he is held under corruption J. Nayler See perfect Pharisee p. 7 13. That Christ was a man had his failings for he distrusted God upon the Crosse Rob. Collison See Gilpins Book p. 2. 14. That we are not justified by that Righteousnesse of Christ which he in his own person did fulfill without us And that whosoever expects to be saved by him that died at Jerusalem shall be deceived For Christ in the flesh was in all that he died and suffered a Figure and nothing but an example 15. That we are therefore to be saved not by the righteousnesse of Christ imputed to us but by the righteousnesse of Christ inherent in us See both these in the perfect Pharisee with their Testimonies p. 9 10 11. And Howgill and Burroughs Answ to Bennet Q. 9. And another to the same purpose saith That the faith and justification which stands in the comprehension of Christ without will stand us in no stead Fr. Gawler to Mr. Miller of Cardiff 16. That God and man cannot be perfectly reconciled till he be brought into the state of the first Adam and able in his own power to stand perfect And that holy workes and lives of Saints are not excluded from justification Howgill c. Answ to Bennets 11 12. Quaeries 17. That no man that is not perfectly holy or commits sin can ever enter into the Kingdome of Heaven except there be a Purgatory And there is no Saint but he that is so perfectly holy in this life without sin Nayler perfect Pharsee p. 1. 112. 13. 18. That to preach the impossibility of such a freedome here on earth is to preach up sin while the world stands and to bring men into Covenant with the Diuill for term of life See also J. Parnell Shield of faith p. 29. to both these Nayler in his answer to Mr. Baxter p. 28. 19. That Christ took not humane flesh upon him at any time otherwise then he daily doth and that Christ is now conversant on earth among men since his ascension as he was in the Apostles times It is the summe of Howgills and Burroughs answer to two Quaeres of Mr. Bennet See Howgill c. in their answer to Benéts 18 and 19. Qu. 20. That the Scriptures are not the word of God This is their constant judgment though they dare not professe it for feare of the Law as one of the most eminent in these parts confessed before the Magistrates here in the hearing of one of us asking Whether if the Bible were burnt the word of God were burnt or words fully to this purpose See the proof Perfect Pharisee p. 23. T. C. Parnells book p. 10. saith He that saith the Letter is the word is a deceiver 21. That they had a light in them sufficient to lead them to salvation if they had never seen or heard of the Bible The substance of this was affirmed before some Magistrates of this Towne and one of us by the same party And this light extended to Heathen Indians by him Suitable to the assertions of James Nayler in a discourse of his in the book quoted here And he that saith the Letter is the rule and guide of the people of God is without feeding upon the Husk c. p. 11. See way to the Kingdome p 8. See perfect Parisee p. 17. 18 22. That the Scriptures are not the Saints Rule of knowing God and living unto him but that which was before the Scriptures were written This is also your owne concerning which anon more at large Atkinson ubi supra p. 1. Parnell p. 11. 23. That there is no need of outward teachings by reading or hearing of the Scriptures opened and applied See perfect Pharisee p 20. 24. That no mens interpretations of the Scripture or Arguments from them are to be received except those that give them be infallible See Quakers Cat. published by Mr. Baxter where the Quaerists require Infallibility in a Minister And Perfect Pharisee p. 27. This is generally their straine We renounce and deny all your meanings interpretations arguments calling them adding to the Scriptures And concerning it we must have a brush or two with you anon 25. That the light in them is the Gospell and the more sure word of Prophecy so sure that some of them say That it is a like

for to take a sentence out of their Letters and preach from it as to take a sentence out of Pauls Epistles Discovery of mysticall Antichrist displaying Christs Banners p. 15. and 33. 26. That there is no call to the Ministry but an immediate Call which is generally proclaimed by them See perfect Pharisee p. 29. J. Parnell p 16. 27. There is no Baptisme of Christ but with the H. Ghost and fire And no Supper of the Lord but in the spirituall part for as for the visible part The bread which the world breaks is carnall and naturall See perfect Pharisee p. 28. and J Parnell p. 12. 13. 28. That singing Davids Psalmes in English Meeter is to sing the Ballads of Hopkins and Sternhold King James his Fidlers And to sing them is to turn the Scriptures into lyes and blasphemies One of them in a Letter here at Reading Henry Clark in his discription of the Prophets p 9. 29. That God made not man to be Lord over man but over other Creatures and therefore amongst them there are no Superiours after the flesh But are there any Superiours over them then that are not among them See in the next article J. Parnell p. 22 23. 30. That Christ comes to fulfill and end all outward Lawes and Ja. Parnell p. 18 19. Government of man The righteous are from under the outward Law for they are a Law to themselves Especially if Magistrates be wicked that is not of them the Author quoted in the Margin denies them utterly 31. That there is no Sabbath now but an everlasting Sabbath and that our Sabbath is but a shadow of which they have the substance Ja. Parnell p. 37. And that the first day in the week is no Sabbath 32. That we may not pray before and after Sermons or at set times daies and houres because these things were in the Generation which were enemies to Christ Quaeres sent to the Congregation at Stopport printed in a Book of Mr. Eaton 33. That the Ranters themselves had a pure convincement which did convince them And what their convincements were most men know To wit that there is no Heaven Hell Resurrection Judgment to come that there is no sin but what a man thinks to be so that all that they did was done by the Eternity in them c. G. Fox and J. Nayler in a book called A word from the Lord p. 13. 34. That that word 1 Jo. 1. 8. If we say we have no sin we deceive our selves was spoken by the carnall man Fr. Gawler See Antichrist in man by Mr. Miller of Cardiff p. 7. Idem ibid. 35. That if a man hath sin in him he hath none of Christ 36. They will not acknowledge that Christ ascended with his body into Heaven Idem ibid. THus you see Sir how much paines we have been at to satisfie you that those men you joyne your selfe unto have matters of greater moment then those you mention justly chargeable upon them So that we are no way in feare of the judgment you pronounce against the Offenders of Christs little ones in your next lines For if such as these be Christs little Ones we know not who are the Devills great Ones And when you have any such things justly to charge upon us we shall not cry out of hard measure although we suffer more then any of you yet do Let the Magistrate do so to us and more also if we thus deserve it As to what we lay to your charge whether he will take notice of it or no we have learned not to be over sollicitous seeing we are not out of hope that deliverance will arise for Gods reproached Ministers Truths and Ordinances some way or other And yet we cannot but desire he would vouchsafe this honour to those that are now in Authority over us that Truth and peace might flourish together in our daies under their wings And truly Sir did you know our hearts whatsoever Monsters of persecution and blood you judge us to be you would see that as it is no private interest of our own that drawes us out to appeare against you but the meer concernments of Gods Glory and precious Truth so we desire nothing more then the conviction and reduction of you in a Gospel-way And this we can clearly say that of all those that have suffered any thing in or neer the places where we live we know none of them but have drawn it upon themselves by first making such publick disturbances as brought them within the reach of the Law and then refusing to give bayle out of a fond ambition they had to be imprisoned when they might have avoided it And yet we cannot but wonder how an handfull of you Sect. 55 bidding defiance to whatever of publick Religion is professed in this Nation should think or with any reason expect to be protected in the disturbance of all others who as the present constitution of affaires stands are under an equall liberty with your selves and if you be denied to persecute all others or by processe of Law restrained from it complaine of persecution So that indeed if the Magistrate grant you such a protection walking by the principles you do he denies it to all else seeing no society of Christians whatsoever would enjoy the freedome of their Worship without distraction from you And to perswade the Magistrates to give you liberty of tearing up all the professed Religion in England and blaspheming it publickly where ever you come we suppose it will in reason be required that you shew some extraordinary Authority or commission from God testified by some reall signe to convince them that it is not counterfeit and yet even then as you shall see anon your Doctrines being such as they are they may see just cause to lay some restraint upon you therein In the mean while we must tell you that however you may please your selves in your sufferings and vent your passions against the men from whom you conceive they arise as so many Sauls and bloody Persecuters yet God judgeth not Martyrs by the suffering but the cause and you had need examine in whose Errand you go when you run your selves upon suffering as well as others to examine upon what Warrant they inflict it upon you If every one be a Martyr who makes a loud cry of Persecution surely the Jesuite will not be behind hand in putting in for his share as well as you and if every one be a Persecutor that curbs and restraines unruly and disorderly Consciences wo be to those Judges who arraigne and condemne Fauxes and Ravilliac's who plead conscience for what they do as well as your selves The truth is both you and we and all persons must be able to plead that we suffer not as evill doers and then suffering will be a comfort and a crown otherwise what we suffer we suffer in our owne wrong and shall when we have suffered our Estates out of our Purses and Soules out