the world condemned and burned to ashes bee an eternall witnesse Yea let their owne decree made in the saied Councell whiche was That no faithe nor promise is to bee kepte to any heretike nor that any manne by any promise standeth bound to an heretike for so thei call all those that dare speake against them bee a perpetuall testimonie of the same Thei saie wee are heretikes wee dooe deny it if our naie maie not defende vs why should their yea coÌ„demne vs Thei saie because thei bee the churche but wee deny the same shall here their yea secue for theÌ„ as it did before against vs and our naie neither touch theÌ„ nor helpe vs In some countreis if the partie accused pleade not guiltie and saie naie to the crime obiected if he by diuers tormentes enforced to confesse doo still maintaine his naie and passe through the appoincted tormentes constanly mainteinyng his naie he is discharged and let goe But it caÌ„ not healp vs accused as heretikes to denie the false accusation to mainteine our deniall in all tormentes and moste cruell deathes neither to bring good testimonie of our innocencie out of Gods woorde all these can helpe vs nothyng against their onelie bare saiyng that we bee heretikes for that is all their proofe In what case are we then How easily maie thei then bothe defende themselues coÌ„demne vs and maintaine what thei list be it right or wrong truthe or falshoode beyng accusers witnesses examiners and iudges theÌ„selues in the causes wherein thei bée parties and parties accused also Wherefore what can we dooe els but as did Christ our sauiour and his holie Apostles against the high Priestes against the Phariseis and Scribes appeale to God not absent not dumbe as M. Dorman deuiseth and saiyng nothyng at all for vs as he would haue it seme but to God yea and to our Sauiour Christe his soonne speakyng his minde moste largelie and plainly in the scriptures and beyng no partie but moste indifferent iudge betwéene them and vs. For if the controuersie be about true Religion and scruice of God what better triall can there be then Goddes woorde God hymself commaundyng vs that in his seruice we shall dooe that whiche he coÌ„maundeth vs that wee shall neither adde thereto nor take any thyng therefrom What better Iudge can there be in this worlde betwene vs then Gods woorde whiche as our sauiour Christ saieth shall iudge vs in the worlde to come If the controuersie bee aboute the true churche what better iudge can there bee then the Scripture writen by the Prophetes and the Apostles seyng it is testified to vs by the spirite of GOD moste plainelie that the true churche is builded and staied vpon the foundation of the Prophetes of the Apostles And though this dooe not like M. Dorman and suche as he is yet you shall heare that it did not misâ—â—ke the old and holie fathers of the auncient and true churche that suche controuersies should bee so quietted by the scriptures Sainct Augustine coÌ„tendyng against those who doo attribute Gods grace and giftes to the woorthinesse of mennes merites coÌ„cludeth thus Cedamus consentiamus autoritati scripturae sancte quae nescit falli nec fallere That is to say Let vs geue place and aagrée to th'autoritie of the holy scripture whiche caÌ„ not bee deceiued nor deceiue others The same S. Augustine contending with the Donatistes hath these woordes Nos nullam Cypriano facimus iniuriam cum eius quaslibet literas à canonica Diuinarum scripturaruÌ„ autoritate distinguimus neque sine causa tam salubri vigilantia Canon ecclesiasticus constitutus est ad queÌ„ certi prophetaruÌ„ ApostoloruÌ„ libri pertineÌ„t quos omnino iudicare noÌ„ audemus secundum quos de caeteris fideliuÌ„ infideliuÌ„ iudicamus mox ca. 32. Ego huius epistolÄ™ autoritate noÌ„ teneor quia literas Cypriani noÌ„ vt canonicas habeo sed eius ex canonicis considero quod iÌ„ eis diuinaruÌ„ scripturatuÌ„ autoritati coÌ„gruit cum laude eius accipio quod auteÌ„ noÌ„ congruit cuÌ„ pace eius respuo Whiche is to saie We doo Cyprian no wrong when we make a difference betweene euery letter and writing of his and the Canonicall autoritie of the holy scriptures Neither without cause thecclesiasticall Canon with so holsome care hath béen appoincted to the whiche the certain assured bookes of the Prophetes Apostles pertaine the which in no wise we presume to iudge and according to the which we iudge of all other bookes writinges both of the faithfull and of the infidels And straight waies after in the 32. chapiter I am not bound to the autoritie of this epistle because I hold not Cyprians letters and writynges for Canonicall but consider his writynges by the Canonicall what accordeth in them to the auctoritie of the diuine Scriptures I allowe with his praise and what disagreeth froÌ„ them by his leaue I refuse These are the woordes of S. Augustine You maie sée here how S. Augustine preferreth the scriptures before the doctours yea before S. Cyprian so often by you M. Dorman alleged who was in deede a blessed martyr is no doubt a sainct in beauen and who also is mosse against you euen where he is alleged by you You see S. Augustine will haue sainct Cyprians writynges and all other doctours and mennes saiynges and writynges examined and Iudged by the scriptures whiche you yet reiecte as no coÌ„uenient iudges and that the scriptures maie be iudged by no man Yea S. Cyprian hymself agreyng hereto sheweth the causes why heresies schismes corruption of the truthe and breache of vnitie dooe come into the Churche and why so many are deceiued by the deuill transformyng hymself into an angell of light by these woordes Hoc eò fit fratres dilectissimi dum ad veritatis originem non reditur nec caput quaeritur nec magistri coelestis doctrina seruatur Quae si quis consideret examinet tractatu longo at que argumentis opus noÌ„ est That is to saie This coÌ„meth to passe hereof moste beloued brethren for that wée dooe not retourne to the origene â—â— beginnyng of the truthe neither is the head sought nor the doctrine of the heauenlie maistor kepte The whiche thynges if a man dooe consider and examine it shall not neede any long treatiâ— orargumentes Thus farre saincte Cyprian Who calleth Christe originem veritatis caput vnum caput originem vnam magistrum coelestem c. To saie The beginnyng of the truthe the head the onelie head the onely beginnyng the heaueÌ„lie schole maister whose doctrine if we would obserue we should not saith S. Cyprian neede any longe treatie or argumenâ—es But for that this beginnyng of the truthe is not returned vnto this heade is not soughte for the doctrine of this hâ—auenlie schoolemaister is not kepte he affirmeth it to bee the cause of all heresies schismes endlesse contentions illusions
aduentured not to come aftervvard theÌ„ selues assuredly knovving that all that they coulde say vvas already vttered by their scholers mouthes but yet trustinge that all men did not so knovv the same but that they might still mainteine vvith some their olde opinion and doctoral estimation And though one Doctor came and vvas handled as vvere the disciples yet vvas the rebuke but one mans but had he gotten the victorie the prayse had been coÌ„moÌ„ to them al. This is the effecte of S. Chrysostome his exposition vpon the sendinge of the disciples and the comminge of one Doctor vnto our Sauiour Christe VVhiche our aduersaries like men of muche discretion haue politikely folovved But all men that haue any vnderstanding at all may easely vnderstande that thei all vvoulde not commit the handlinge of matters of suche vveight and for the vvhiche they all as it vvere Pro aris focis for life and death as one might terme it doo fight to those fevv beinge very yonge men and of meane learninge and small experience in comparison and of a diuers studie and professing themselues vvhich they can not hide to be yonge studientes in diuinitie all men I say may vvell knovve that they vvoulde not committe suche matters to such men vvithout their common aduise and helpe ioyned vvith â—hem Seeinge that D. Hardinge himselfe do the plainely confesse that he in the vevv of his vvorke vsed the aduise of his learned friendes and that it is not credible that M. Rastell vvould let his booke lie by him foure yeres in a readinesse vvithout a suruey therof made by some of so many remayning with him at Louane VVherfore it is not harde for any of any vnderstandinge to vnderstande that this publishinge of their common deuise vnto the worlde in the names of a few of the simplest sorte among them is but a practise of policie For they perciuinge that they cannot write nor set abroade bookes worthy to be compted learned mens doynges doo prouide authors meete for suche bookes as they can set foorth VVhereby they shall not onely keepe their owne autoritie and cause without all daunger what so euer be iudged of these authors or their bookes but shall also mainteinâ—â—n the mindes of men a great opinion and expectatioÌ„ of themselues as Veteranes and olde Souldiours whose brunt when they shall come to the matter wil be as may seeme of greater force and violence than that it can possibly be resisted seing these yonge souldiours haue geuen such a fresh onset But I dare assure you that either these matters shal thus stil be handled by scholers and yonge studientes as they call theÌ„selues or if th' olde doctors dare adueÌ„ture which yet many doctors doubt of they shal handle the saide matters but scholerlike as hath that one Doctor already doone and I doubt not but it shall to the worlde be made most manifest that he hath so doone And to speake more particularly as it was no greate matter for D. Harding out of Pighius Gropperus Hosius and certaine others who haue intreated of the same matters in common places before him to haue translated into English what he thought meete for his purpose whiche he hath lately put abroade as his owne dooinges so might M. Dorman with farre lesse labour and better right also a greate deale out of his maister D. Hardinges booke so lately before written borow of authorities and reasons ready framed to his haÌ„des as much as liked him and so of a peece of his maisters booke conteining onely .iiij. articles of .xxvi. with greate ease make vs an other new booke as greate as is his maisters the ordre here and there being a litle transposed to obscure the matter and to make a show of new inuention and the stile somewhat floorished with M. Dormans railing rhetorike For they that doo know M. Dorman better than I doo marueiling of his dooinges in Diuinitie matters doo thinke that he hath all his learninge not of inheritance but by lâ—gacie supposinge that he hath mette with Doctor Smith his written bookes who of late deceasinge did as they say put M. DormaÌ„ in some trust Els they thinke he coulde not so shortly and sodenly before he was knowen to be a student in Diuinitie become a Bacheler of the same Vnlesse perhappes he sometime stoode vpon the bridge with others whiles the creator saide Omnes vos qui statis in ponte estote Bacchalaurei dixit fatui suÌ„t But the same his acqueintance so marueiling of his new degree in schoole of Diâ—initie affirme that in iesting scoffing mockinge and railinge he is suche a Veterane and so olde a practicioner that he doth plainely raigne yea and triuÌ„phe too in the schoole of scolding and though they helde their peace his dooynges in this booke doo wel declare the same And it is not vnlikely but that M. Dorman with others vpon vew of D. Hardinges booke iudgeing that he as a graue and learned man had sufficiently reasoned against vs but had otherwise dealte to coldely with vs as of purpose auoidynge glikes nippes scoffes bittes cuttes and girdes for so himselfe saithe thought it good by common aduise that M. Dorman takinge D. Hardinges reasons and so eased of that greatest parte of the labour should set foorth the matter and amplifie it specially that of the Popes supremacie in the whiche he saw his Maister had professed breuitie after his and certaine others deuise and not only with nippes and girdes pinche and wringe vs but also with whole cartlodes of railynges in the whiche facultie M. Dorman excelleth should ouerwhelme vs that wee might seeme to all their fauourers not only borne downe and cleane ouerthrowen by D. Hardinge but also by M. Dorman torne all to peeces according as M. Dorman hath in this booke for his parte well endeuoured himselfe to accomplishe Novv if any doo maruell that I not prouoked as may seeme doo purchase to my selfe so great and grecuous an aduersarie as is M. Dorman by ansvvering his booke vvritten as he professeth against the bishop of Sarisburie I make them this ansvvere Though this and other like bookes appeare in name and vvoorde to be vvritten againste the saide bishop onely yet be they in deede and meaninge vvriten againste vs all as vvell as him for that they doo oppugne and assaulte the cause vvhiche is common to vs all vvith him vnder his name onely goeinge about through his sides as it vvere to thrust vs all through the hartes Further seeinge suche a number of bookes as it vvere dartes directed at his head vvhereof the moste parte are suche that had he leysure enough therto yet vvould he neuer ansvvere them but by contempte of them vvhiche yet not ansvvered might seeme therfore to be let alone for that thei vvere not ansvverable suche is either the sclender discretion of some sielie soules either the bolde braggerie of many malaperte aduersaries I thought for the satisfiynge of the symple and
matters most impertinent to his matter of one head borowed of his Maister D. Harding Pighius Hosius with others as is in their places noted he hath amplified at large and gaylie garnished with the ornamentes of his raylinge rethorike Whiche stuffe were it altogether had to the dunge hyll as it ought al his booke almost were cleane swept out of the doores litle or nothing should be left therof and yet nothing taken away from it that did belong of right vnto it Séeyng therefore this first and most principall poinct of one head of the churche the very foundation of al is not proued by M. Dorman or so leudly proued that it faileth and falleth of it selfe all the Popes supremacie commeth downe vpon their heades For if they can not proue as they neuer shal be hable that there ought to be one chiefe head of Christes whole church here in earth thei can not possibly proue that the Pope should be that one head Wherefore I doo aduise M. Dorman and all the packe of Papistes to recoyle from this their Thesis of one head of the churche to the Hypothesis of the Pope head of the churche and to proue first that the Pope of Rome ought of right to be the onely chiefe head and then after to induce thereof that there must of necessitie be one chiefe head For if they take not this waye I dooe geue them plaine warning they shall neuer thriue And further séeing this part of M. Dormans booke both for that it is the first and the chiefe parte also requireth good and substanciall proufes not onely for it selfe sake but also that the readers vpon the good likynge hereof might haue the better hope and expectation of all the rest of his booke according as M. Dorman hath no doubt out of the preceptes of Rethorike obserued and is yet not withstanding thus sclenderly vntruely falsely fondlye and dreamingly handled by M. Dorman it geueth the Readers to vnderstande what they shall fynde in the residue of his booke in the whiche as it were in the rerewarde he hath placed bag and baggage with suche pages drudges and slaues to attende vpon the same as are more ready to runne awaye than to abide any brunte of battayle The which I haue not as yet assayled for that I dooe sée the Byshop of Sarisburie his bande bent vpon them whose handes if any of that cowardly companie escape as eyther not espied or not regarded of him I dooe promise thée good reader that I God willinge will shortely haue them in chase vntill I haue lefte of all M. Dormans bragging but most cowardly armie of leude Popishe reasons and allegations not as muche as one souldiour vntaken or put to shamefull flight Dorman fol. 15. It folovveth novve that I shovve to you vvho is and of right ought to be that head if first I dooe you to vnderstand that it must necessarily be a priest and that so by iust cōsequence neither laye man vvomā nor child can be capable of that office Novvell M. Dorman by like hath readde or heard of Aristotle that he geueth counsaile that if one chaunce to fall into a matter very barren to reason vppon he shoulde by some sleight scape out to some other more plentifull matter And therefore finding his matter of the necessitie of one head of the churche whiche yet is most necessarie though it be impossible for the Papistes to proue or els to lose all so bare barren of all proufes as well out of the scriptures as doctours and good reasons he maketh a scape into a larger campe and taketh in hande to proue that no lay lay man vvoman nor childe can be capable of this office that he speaketh of to witte to be the only supreme head ouer Christs vniuersal church and that will he proue you both roundly plentifully by makyng declaration that princes be they men vvemen or children may not minister the Sacramentes as priestes may may not preach as priestes may may not excommunicate and absolue binde and loose as priests may can not haue so great knovvledge in the scriptures as priestes may For in prouing of these thinges which no man doth denie which being graunted dooe make nothing to his purpose or against vs he is as plentiful as he was before spare barren in prouing y e necessitie of one head of y e church in earth which we doo all denie and whiche not proued the Papistes haue lost all And as he had very much adoo to patche vp a fewe leaues by alleaging of two poore places out of the scriptures and thrée or foure trifling testimonies of the olde doctoures which I so terme for that they make nothinge to his purpose but cleane against him with impertinēt pelfrie to supply y e rest so in y e second part to witte that no prince mā vvomā nor child can be supreme head of Christs church in earth for that they cā not minister the Sacramēts may not preache can not binde loose c. he doothe laye on lode out of the scriptures Doctors reasons and plaieth ▪ Rex reueling and ruffling roially so that he hath much enlarged his booke with this part For this accessarie and suborned treatie and counterfeite controuersie without any aduersarie for the most part of it as it were a sixt finger vpon one hande longer and bigger then all his felowes is alone larger thā are bothe his firste and thirde moste necessary partes or rather the whole summe of all Poperie that is to saye that Christes churche here in earth must of necessitie haue one chiefe head And that the bishop of Rome is that heade of Christes churche In whiche twoo partes so necessarie that without them all partes of Poperie must of necessitie playnely perishe the man is contente to bee sobre and of a competente length more for lacke of store or stuffe than for want of wil you may be sure But when he commeth to his Schiomachia and skirmishing with his owne shadowe Lord howe he playeth the man in that vnblouddy battayle and triumpheth not before the victorie as they saye but of a conquest made without duste raysinge or bloude sheadinge without enemie slayne hurte or put to flighte yea no enemie at all séen hearde of or knowen For M. Dorman can not be ignorant that wée in all our Sermons and writinges of suche mattiers dooe make a moste cleare and euident difference between the functions and offices of princes ciuill magistrates and Priestes Ecclesiasticall ministers And neither did we euer teache that Princes ought neither did they euer desire to execute the offices Ecclesiasticall of ministring the Sacramentes preachinge excommunicatinge absoluinge and suche like Wherfore you doo lewdly and impudently abuse your self M. Dorman and al others too so largely to confute that which no man holdeth and so busily to proue that which no man denieth For whan all this is graunted you what haue you obteined or what
A REPROVFE written by Alexander Nowell of a booke entituled A PROVFE OF CERtayne Articles in Religion denied by M. Iuell set furth by Thomas Dorman Bachiler of Diuinitie and Imprinted at Antvverpe by Iohn Latius Anno. 1564 Prouerb 19. 4. Teflis falsus non erit impunitus qui loquitur mendacia non effugiet A false witnesse shall not remaine vnpunished and he that speaketh lyes shall not escape Set foorth and allowed according to the Queenes Maiesties Iniunctions Imprinted at London in Fléetestréete by Henry Wykes Anno Domini 1565. 13. die Iuly Cum Priuilegio ad imprimendum solum M. Dormans preface to D. Harding to whom he dedicated his booke and to the Reader are onely omitted for that nothing materiall was conteined in them Of all the rest so farre as I haue proceded not one woorde of M. Dormans either in the treatie it selfe or in his marginall notes is pretermitted There is nothing in this Impression altered from the first sauing onely that M. Dormans euyll handlyng of the auncient Doctours is in some places more at large explicated and that some part of M. Dormans treatie somewhere before diuided is now for more perspicuitie and plainenesse ioyned togeather THE PREFACE to the Reader THOVGH many simple soules may muche meruell at suche plentie of Englishe bookes as are of late so sodeinly sente vs from beyonde the seas by our countrey men there and bothe the authors themselues doo muche bragge therein and their fautors doo magnifie the same exceedingly yet the learned and discrete Readers accustomed rather to vveigh and iudge then to counte and numbre vvill easely consider that it is no harde mater for our aduersaries abouÌ„ding vvith leasure and multitude by common conference of many to patche vp a sorte of suche bookes in Englishe vvherein there is nothing to any purpose vvritten but that vvhiche vvas longe before vvritten in sundry latine bookes and readie to their handes to translate thereout into their Englishe bookes as they thought meete for their purpose so that they be but seely translators or borovvers of those bookes vvhose first authors they vvoulde appeare to be In the vvhiche poincte yet M. Stapleton translating Staphilus his longe Latin booke so longe before vvritten vvorde for vvoorde into Englishe and not dissembling the matter hath dealt therin more simplie theÌ„ the rest of his felovves haue doone By vvhose example the meanest men in learninge and vvitte amongst them all haue they onely a litle vnderâ—â—â—nding in the Latin tongue may lode vs vvith hauocke of bookes vvhen they list For it is vvell kuovven to all that be learned that nothing of vveight or to any purpose can novv nevvly be vvritten for the mainteinance of the Popes vsurped supremacy or any other their matters vvhiche they novv treate of but suche as hath been alreadie both vvritten and printed many yeres agoe in bookes as vvell of the Latin tongue as other languages and the same to be fully ansvvered vnto also to the satisfiynge of the Readers and daily vvinning of greate numbres of men and vvemen of all sortes and degrees from their popishe superstition vnto the truth of the Gospell such bookes as vvell of the one sorte as of th' other beinge rise in the handes of such as vnderstande to such decay of their saide superstition and successe of the truthe as to the vvorlde at this day cannot be vnknovven VVherefore our aduersaries mistrustinge that such kinde of vvriting or rather translating should not appeare vvoorthie to be accoÌ„pted the earnest dooing of any learned or vvise man haue doone vvittely ether to pretende that to be vvriten but lightly for a priuate friende or tvvaine and not mente to be printed but by persvvasion of friendes against their ovvne purpose suffered to come abroade vvhiche yet they in deede haue of longe by common conference elaborated at conuenient oportunitie to be put in printe to the publike patrocinie of their decaied and almost desperate cause or els to appoincte suche to beare the name as the authors of their bookes as may seeme moste meete therefore beinge accompted of all that knovv them for learninge and discretion the simplest men amongst them The same distrust of their ovvne dooinges or rather other mens dooinges set foorth for their ovvne may seeme a cause vvhy they directe their vvritinges either onely or chiefely against the Bishoppe of Sarisburie thinkinge that though they shall absolutely of the matters they take in hande be hable to say nothinge but that is alreadie saide and is likevvise or easely may be ansvvered yet may they seeme abundantly to say to him vvho chalengeth them that they can say nothinge at all and vvho also doth not tie them streightly to the triall of the scriptures the certaine and onely iudges in controuersies of ReligioÌ„ and vvherin in deede they can say nothing at all as shall hereafter be plainly proued but geueth them a moste large scope of all Doctours of the Churche vvho haue vvritten for the space of sixe hundreth yeres after our Sauiour Christes beinge here in earth and of all Councelles kept in the saide continuance of time Out of the vvhiche Doctors and Councelles for that the said Bishop hath aduouched that the best learned of all the aduersaries or all the aduersaries togeather are hable to bring nothing to any purpose for them he hath set all the aduersaries learned and vnlearned a vvoorke by coÌ„mon conference to deuise to say somthing for themselues and against him vvho affirmeth they can say nothing at all And yet fearing least that somthinge vvhiche they all are hable to say â–ª vvill fall out at the lengthe to proue nothinge to purpose they haue all like vvise men agreed that some fevv shall take vpon them to be the onely authors of that something vvhich they all can say least if that somethinge as it is deuised by them all so it should passe abroade in all their names and in time proue nothing at all all their estimation vvere lost at once And for more cautell suche some also to be named for the saide authors as haue not all learninge vvit nor discretion but men of a diuers profession vvho haue yet some fight in Diuinitie as studientes of the same for so they professe them selues VVherin they seeme to me to deale vvith vs as did the Phariseis vvith Christe vvho vvould not come them selues to dispute vvith him but sent their Disciples vvell instructed and furnished vvith all that themselues coulde possibly say to oppose him to th' ende that if their Disciples should obtaine the victorie the glory of their maisters vvho had suche excellent scholers might mount aboue the Moone But in case the scholers should be blanked it might for excuse yet be saide vvhat maruell if yonge men and yet but studientes in the Scriptures tooke a litle foyle But if the olde Doctors come themselues I vvarrant you this nue Prophet shal be othervvise handled And yet like vvise men they
repressinge of the insolente to say somevvhat to some one of those bookes and therfore to M. Dormās rather than any others for that it came abroade nexte in ordre after D. Hardinge his booke Of vvhiche booke yet had I before I did beginne vnderstanded that I novve in processe doo that it had bene in substance so agreable vvith D. Hardinge his booke that the Bishoppe of Sarum should in ansvveringe the one in effect haue ansvvered bothe as he must needes doo it should for me haue bene let alone vntill the bishoppes ansvvere had come abroade in printe and than the conclusion onely excepted vvhiche is somevvhat seuerall to M. Dorman should it by me haue none othervvise bene ansvvered but onely by notinge in the margent in vvhat places of the bishoppes ansvvere to D. Hardinge euery place of M. Dormans booke is ansvvered vvhiche order I vvill hereafter folovve and vvhere M. Dorman shall haue any thinge peculiar that vvill I directly ansvvere my selfe Novv as the ignoraunce of the affinitie betvvene the Maisters and the scholers bookes caused me to beginne vvith M. Dormans booke as an other nevve vvoorke vntouched before intending verefy to goe through vvith the same so in the processe of the booke the knovvledge therof did grovv more and more and so much at the laste that I did not onely by the style as did Tullie Theophrastes Disciple but by the matter it selfe also knovv D. Harding his scholar so like to him that he might seeme his sonne also and spitte out of his mouth as they say so that in deede he may professe D. Hardinge to be his mayster of very good righte as of vvhome he hath the learninge that he shevveth in this booke And had he not dedicate the booke to D. Hardinge as to vvhome of right it apperteineth beyng as a man learned in the lavve not ignorant of the chiefe propertie of iustice suum cuique he mighte haue bene iustly accused of some vniuste compilation of his maisters almeries seeyng he is not yet his exequutor as vvell as D. Smithes This matter I say perceiued inforced me to stay least I might seeme of sette purpose though colorably to haue hasted to preuent the bishoppe of Sarisburie in ansvveringe D. Hardinge by ansvveringe M. Dorman and so to haue seemed vvillinge to goe before him one vvay in hastie dooynge vvhome I must needes folovv a great vvay behinde in all vvell dooinge And vvere not this cause vvhich yet is a great and a iuste cause I haue not suche leasure vvhiche is the common case of vs all as to ansvvere that vvhiche I doo heare say is already ansvvered and ready to printe as M. Dorman had leasure to vvrite againe that vvhiche vvas before vvriten by his Maister neither had I such leasure liste I as he dothe blotte paper vvith other mens dooinges These are the very causes vvhy I haue staied and as yet haue proceeded no further in the ansvveringeof M. Dormans booke But vvhen I had passed thus farre and the bishoppes ansvvere ▪ as the reporte than vvent vvas not fully finished and many good mèn muche desired somme ansvvere and as many aduersaries as much bragged that their bookes vvoulde neuer be ansvvered the councell of some friendes and suche continuall bragge of so many aduersaries caused me to suffer this little taste as vntimely fruite the sooner to come abroade that suche as finde double faulte vvith vs for not ansvveryng speedely or fully might in parte be satisfied And the rather haue I consented to suche aduise of my friendes for that by this taste that I haue giuen the readers of M. Dorman they shall knovv him throughly not a lyon as they say by his longe nayles but a lyar by his leude tales For by the vevve hereof they may not onely iudge of his vvhole treatie but also this principall parte and firste fronte in the vvhiche M. Dorman as a skilfull man hath placed the chiefe strength and force or rather this the very fundation of the vvhole beynge cleane ouerthrovven as I doubt not but it is all the reste muste needes come to ruine vvith all At the least I trust I haue so farre satisfied the discrete reader concerninge M. Dorman that it shall suffice hereafter to passe ouer the residue of his booke by briefe notes And I doo truste also that suche as shall blame me moste for not ansvvering the vvhole shal be greued moste that I haue ansvvered so much and that those that shall finde moste faulte i◠vvoordes vvith our slacke ansvveringe shall be moste vexed in minde vvith our speedy ansvvering For as their bookes vvere not therfore sodenly vvriten for that they came sodenly abroade so shal they I doubt not be ansvvered spedely that is in shorter space then they vvere vvriten in And yet all speede is not alvvay in most haste For it may so fall out that M. Dorman vvith the vvhole company of his adhaerentes the Papistes shall more easily write tenne such bookes more at randon as this is written then be hable to mainteine and to defende directlie this little parcel of his booke as eyther trulie or learnedly written And thus muche I thought good to saie concerning our not speedie answeringe as some men thinke and my parcel answering which some men wil blame for the satisfiyng of some for all looke not to satisfie though al Dormans and al other Papists were altogether already so answered as they al might be ashamed of their dooinges as I doubt nothinge god willinge but it shall shortely so come to passe though peraduenture not one emongst them all will euer confesse the same Now that I haue so diligently and largely and as it may seeme carefully also answered M. Dorman whose owne dooynges I affirme to be more woorthy of laughter than of any earnest answere which shall I am sure be layde also to my charge I doo certifie the reader that I doo not answere the reasons alleaged in this booke as M. Dormans but as the reasons of D. Hardinge of whom M Dorman hath borowed them and not onely Doctor Hardinges but Eckrus Pighius and Hosius reasons also yea and of all those that haue written in Latine for the Popes vsurped power and supremacie in whose writinges the like reasons are to be found and out of whom D. Hardinge as out of him M. Dorman hath translated adverbum almost such places as he thought for his purpose wherfore I haue vsed the more diligēce as vnder the name of one answeringe so many An other and most weightie cause why I haue vsed such diligence and prolixitie is this M. Dorman though he be a weake assaylant and sclender reasoner yet is he a great lyar and a venemous sclaunderer and therefore hath he sette abroade a lewde booke in deede but not so lewde as sclaunderous and sclaunderous not to seueral persons onely but to our whole countrey to our lawes and to our gratious soueraigne whom he chargeth as vsurping vndue authoritie sclaunderous I say not here at home
hym alleged moste euidentlie againste hym and that moste falsly vsurped supremacie of the pope You haue heard how contrary his witnesses be twoo against one and that one either not so writyng as is alleged by M. Dorman but falsified or forged as so writyng by the Popes commen corrupters and falsaries of al writers and writynges or if so writyng yet vnworthie credite euen by his owne lawe as partiall in his owne cause and otherwise to be suspected for that his testimonie is in diuers copies found not onely diuers but cleane coÌ„trarie vnlesse M. DormaÌ„ thought he might put in and out this woorde non not as a little sillable and nothyng materiall at his pleasure And further the saied witnesse who so euer he be beyng but one is confuted as you haue hearde by the veredicte of twoo witnesses moste worthie of creadite brought in with hym for testimonie of the same matter You se therfore not onely no necessitie but an impossibilitie of such an one onely head aswell of the churche dispersed throughout all the worlde as of one onely king or prince of all the worlde it self You sée there was no suche opinion muche lesse knowledge of any suche head emoÌ„gest the Apostles or in the primitiue churche but that it is a newe deuilishe deuise of the late ambitious Bishoppes of Rome who when thei were neuer able yet hitherto well to rule the churche of Rome one citie as by all histories and experience is euidente would yet of the worlde vsurpe the superioritie supremacie And if S. Paule didthinke he was not méete to haue charge of one Churche who could not well gouerne his owne house of what monstrous ambitioÌ„ and presumption is he trowe you who neuer yet able to gouerne one peculiar churche dooeth claime and would take vpon him the regiment of all churches throughout the whole worlde Wheras he is not able were he thereto required to tell the onely names of a small parte of the saied churches neither knoweth in what part of the world a great many of theÌ„ be Dorman fol. 6. I can not heare staie to examine curioussie euery worde in these auncient fathers but leauing that good readers to your discreatioÌ„ and not doubtyng but that in these graue witnesses in a matter of suche weight importaunce as wherevpon dependeth the healthe of the whole Churche you will be no lesse diligente then you would bee in examinyng the depositions of your owne witnesses or your aduersaries in a triall of landes or other temporall commoditie Nowell M. Dorman is in haste and lacketh leisure for the examination of these matters there is some plaie belike towardes and his parâ—e therein the busieste of all other and therefore you must examine these witnesses your selues and that with more diligence then you would dooe in controuersies about landes or worldie matters Now surely M. Dorman a little examinatioÌ„ will serue to trie out that you and all your felowe collectours and ouersears of this booke were either of hast shamefully ouerséene or so ignoraunte that you could not sée though you had had good leisure or moste impudeÌ„t and shamelesse so that you cared nothyng what or how you did write so it were some thyng or els all three together And had you doen well you should all haue bestowed your leisure and cunnyng together in some one piththie booke if any thyng can be piththilie written of suche leude and trifelyng matters as you take in hande to maintaine rather then by launcyng out suche hauocke of bookes like to this yours and moste méete for you in poste pase as though all speede were in the haste onelie to gette for the tyme the commendation of celeritie and readinesse either of your fanourers altogether blinded with partialitie or of such vndiscreate readers as delite moste in moste trifles and withall to obteine a perpetuall note and blotte of greate ignoraunce mixed with more shamelessenesse and impudencie in the opinions of all wise and learned men For it will fall out M. Dorman that you alone shall bee more able to write and sende vs ouer a doosen suche bookes at this is by the leisure and facultie that you haue sufficiente enough thereto then D. Hardyng and you with all your adherentes shall bee able to maintaine one little paâ—cell of this your or his booke as truelie and sincerely written So mucke harder it is either to write a little well and truelie or to defende a little of muche written lightlie and falselie then to write neuer so many and so greate bookes bothe lightly leudely and falsely too suche as I trust it shall appeare to the worlde this booke named woorthily yours is in deede M. Dorman Dorman fol. 6. I shall procede to the consideration of the seconde reason whiche before I touched of the people of Isâ—ael if I firste warne you to consider but this by the waie that ye maie truste those aunciente fathers by their woorde the better an other tyme how many schismes bee burste in apon vs in our countrey of Englande for one common receiued truth in the daies of our fathers when we remained in the obedieÌ„ce of one chief priest and iudge whiche shake nowe so miserablie the same how quietlie in one loue in one truth in one doctrine in one Churche in one heade thereof God almightie and his minister vnder hym appoincted ouer the same weliued then and other in other places dooe now Nowell Yet for all the haste M. Dorman hath he will by the waie warne you to credite the aunciente fathers by hym alleged The same dooe wee also desire of the discreate readers that thei will creadit those auncient fathers who though alleged by M. Dorman beyng directlie against hym doo declare that he is woorthy of no creadite at all And he doeth vniustlie charge England specially with so many schismes where it is well knowen that there is as muche consente in true doctrine in the churche of Englande at this tyme as euer was in any realme at any time And though there were not a perfecte consent of all men in all poinctes what marueile yet were it if that should happen emongeste vs whiche was not altogether lackyng emongeste the Apostles themselues Let the conteÌ„tion betwéene Paule and Peter and betwéene Paule againe Barnabas be a proofe thereof What woonder if that were emongest vs touching some poinctes that was not wanting in the primitiue churche emoÌ„gest the olde fathers Let the variaunce emongeste the bishops assembled at Nicene councell let the contention betwene the bishops of the Easte and of the Weste churche aboute the keepyng of Easter daie a matter not woorthie of suche variaunce bée a witnesse thereof Let the sharpe conteÌ„tion betwéene S. Chrysostome and Theophilus bishop of AlexaÌ„dria and Epiphanius bishop of Cyprus the bitter strief betwéene S. Hierome and S. Augugustine and betwéene the saied S. Hierome againe and Rufine and like contentions betweene the beste men of all
agaynst the Prophetes Psalmes or the lawe for so Christe doth diuide the holy Scriptures of the olde Testament as here hath Hosius written he should according to the iudgement of the lawe haue like a wicked blasphemar be stoned to death But blasphemie against God and his holy scriptures is with our aduersaries a sporte Dayly and most horrible blasphemies against Christe are suffered in the Iues by the Pope and they neuerthelesse remaine the Popes friends specially in néede of money Onely a woorde against that false vsurpar of Rome and his leude traditions is auenged with swoorde fagot and fire moste cruelly vpon those that doo professe Christes name and all the articles of the Christian faith Whiche emongst many others is not the least proofe that y e Pope is Antichrist for that he doeth therby declare that he preferreth him selfe and his owne traditions before Christe his gospell auenging himself so extremely vpon the cōtemners of his said traditiōs and permitting blasphemers against God our sauiour Christ the holy scriptures to remayne not onely vnpunyshed but also his deare friendes But lette vs procéede with M. Dormans rehearsall of Suenkfeldius heresies The holy ghost vseth to come from aboue vvithout the help of meanes as hearing preaching or reading the scriptures VVe must looke to be taught from heauen not out of bookes saith Suenkfeldins Doo not you Papistes say the same haue not you geuē ouer preaching of gods woord your selues barred the people from reading hearing of it by your crueltie close keping of it in a language vnknowen to the people and burnyng the bookes of the scripture transiated for the peoples vnderstanding Are not you the right heyres of those Phariseis whom our sauiour speaketh of that haue taken away this key of knowledge of goddes woorde and neither will enter in your selfe nor suffer other that would to entre And thus laying aside preaching your selues and burnyng other that doo preache and barryng the people of God from reading and hearyng of his woorde you doe saye euen as did Suenkfeldius that the holy ghoste vseth to come from aboue into your Popishe churche without all helpe of meanes as hearyng preaching or readyng of the Scriptures whiche you will by no meanes suffer so to be vsed in the churche as it may be vnderstanded Are not you those who contrarie to goddes commaundement that the booke of the lawe should not departe out of the handes and from the eyes of his seruauntes haue either suche bookes as fewe can vnderstande either burne such bookes of gods law as all may vnderstand for that you will not haue them to learne of goddes booke but onely of suche traditions as are reuealed to your churche from heauen as you say Thus you sée good readers I truste euidently howe that M. Dorman hath moste vniustly charged vs and that we are as farre from Suenfeldius vile heresies as the Papistes in all poinctes by M. Dorman rehearsed agree and ioyne moste iustly with theim as I haue declared by the very woordes of Pighius D. Hardinges chiefe author and by Hosius M. Dorman his peereles pearle for learnyng and vertue as he sayeth Whiche Hosius gaue occasion to M. Dorman to make mention of Suenfeldius in this place as partly before and more plainely nowe hereafter doth appeare Dorman fol. 11. And thus vvhilest moste shamefully to the great dishonor of the vvhole realme vnder vvhose name as it vver that fardel of lies their apologie vvas sent abroade thei haue not ben ashamed to charge vvith this heresie of Suenkfeldius one of the greatest estates both for lerning and vertue that at this daie Christendom hath vve may se that thei haue not only shovved thē selues to be very vvicked and shameles men the truthe to their vtter and perpetuall infamie and shame had thei any plainly to the contrary in the vvorcks of him vvhome thei so sclaundred bearing vvitnesse against them but are also runne into the same groundes vvhereon Svvenkfilde builded his heresie their ovvne selues Novvell I trust that who so euer shall reade that conformitie betwene the papistes and Suenkfeldius and both their heresies before declared and specially by the woordes of Pighius and Hosius him selfe shall vnderstande that Hosius was not without cause charged with some affinitie to Suenkfeldius his heresie and with contempt blaspemie against God and his holy scripture wherewith Hosius writings doo abounde and beare witnesse most plenteously thereof and that therefore it is no shame at all to the author of the apologie to beare witnesse of the truthe the whiche apologie yet once again M. Dorman with one woorde after his manner confuteth calling it a fardel of lies But euery woorde that M. Dorman speaketh is not gospell Although he haue here in this his booke packed vs vp suche store of lies that he might more iustly haue intitled it a Lighter laden with lyes than a fardell of lies yet shall he and all his fellowes finde it more easie for them to sende vs ouer a Hulke or twayne full fraughted with suche lies as this and other their bookes swarme withall than to answere that litle apologie to any purpose terme he it neuer so contemptuously Concerning Hosius so great an estate of Christendome I wist not of it before Sure I am that in Polonia his countrey he is of the meaner sort of bishoppes there and what should make him so great an estate besides I know nothing but his Cardinals hatte which how much so euer M. Dormā estemeth yet the truth is that originally a Cardinall is but a person or vicar of one of the parishe churches in Rome or there about in the countrey For after that the Popes had iniuriously and violētly put the people of Rome from the election of the sayde Popes beyng but byshoppes of Rome which election of right apperteined to them ioinctly with the cleargie and had geuen full authoritie to the persons and vicars of the parishes in Rome that they alone should elect the Pope Pope Paschall the first of that name to adourne these Papall electours with some solemne title named these single soled clerkes Cardinalles and Pope Nicolas the second of that name confirmed the same as is in y e Florentine historie declared But yet hitherto were these Papall electors footemen for that they were not as yet hable to paye for their horse meate in Rome where prouander is deare because they had chaunged their name and not mended their liuinges they went appareiled as yet like other commen curates no better than our Cardinalles in Paules cathedrall church yea many of them farre wourse This vncomlinesse pope Innocentius the fourth of that name wysely consideryng sayth Platina Statuitvt Cardinales equo in publicum vecti galero rubrovterentur honestandi ordinis causa That is to saye He made a statute or ordre that the Cardinalles should ryde on horsebacke when thei came abroade and should were a redde hatte for the honestie of the
leaf of this booke before where this place is bothe alâ—eged by maister Dorman and consequentlie answered at full and as I truste to the satisfiyng of all reasonable readers Onelie this will I here againe rehearse seeyng M. Dorman calleth vs from the Scriptures to the Pope and would abuse this place thereto that the Iewishe high Priest hymself by the verie woordes of the same place is bounde to teache and Iudge accordyng to the woorde of God and not at his will and pleasure Pighius I knowe and Hosius also dooe here finde faulte with the olde translation for that it maketh againste their purpose But all other Papistes will allowe none but the olde translation onelie whiche M. Stapleton also earnestlie in his late Englished booke dooeth constantâ—ie affirme anclie to be allowed which might suffice Pighius Hosius I trowe But though nothing can suffice theÌ„ yet to the satisfaction of the good reader I doo trust that it caÌ„ not be denied but that the high Prieste as well as all others standeth bounde by other places of the Scriptures to the obedtence and folowyng of Gods lawes in all his teachynges and iudgementes accordyng as is by God commaunded to all menne without exception by these woordes Non declinabitis neque ad dexteram neque ad sinistram ab ijs quae praecepit Dominus Deus vobis Et non addetis ad verbum quod vobis loquor non auferetis ab eo That is to saie Ye shall not decline from the thyng whiche the Lorde your God hath commaunded you neither to the right hande nor the left Thou shalt adde nothyng thereto nor take any thing therefro I trust I saie that Pighius and Hosius with M. Dorman and suche others will confesse that these sentences and suche other like dooe binde as well the high priest as all other meÌ„ that he maie not dooe what he liste but accordyng as Gods woordes dooe leade els if he sitte iudgeyng accordyng to the lawe coÌ„maunde thinges to be dooen against the lawe as is vsual to the Pope to doo I beleue S. Paules curse wil light vpon him Percutiet te deus paries dealbate God will smite thée thou ouerwhited wall that we with S. Peter S. Ihon maie boldlie say to him his whether it be right in the sight of God to heare you rather then god iudge ye So y t consequeÌ„tly we be at libertie to disobete the coÌ„maundement of that high priest that shall geue in coÌ„maundement any thing contrary to Gods woorde commaundement to the obedience whereof as well the high prieste as any other dooeth slande bounden Now emongeste other profitable studies of the seriptures what can bee more profitable yea necessarie then by conserryng the textes and places of the scriptures together therby to gather the true sense of euery place Which though it sa misliketh M. Dorman yet hath it beste liked all the olde writers and doctours of the Churche hetherto Sainct Augustine emongest others whom I had rather like and folowe then 500. Hardynges and Dormans shewyng his likyng of that coÌ„serryng of places of scripture together hath these wordes Vbi autem apertius ponuntur ibi discendum est quomodo in locis intelligantur obscuris c. That is to saie Where thynges are more plainlie vttered in the scriptures there muste wee learne how thei are to bee vnderstanded in darke places For that can not be better vnderstanded which is saied of God in one place Take thine armour and shielde and rise to healpe me then of that other place where it is read Lorde thou hast crouned vs as it wer with a shielde of thy good will or fauour Thus farre saincte Augustine who in the .xxvij. and .xxviij. chapiter of the same booke prosecuteth that moste prositable way of collation of textes of scripture at large And the same sainct Augustine in an other place hath these woordes Quibusdam scripturarum locis apertius aliquid exponitur quod diligens pius lector etiam in alijs locis in quibus minus aperitur intelligat c. that is to saie In some places of the Scriptures a thyng is more plainelie expounded the whiche a diligente and godlie reader maie also vnderstande in other places in the whiche it is not so plainly opened For our God to the healthe of our soules hath by the holie ghoste so ordeined the diuine bookes that he would not onelie feede vs with plaine textes of scriputures but also exercise vs with darke places of them Thus muche in that place Sainct Augustine who calleth suche as so compare the scriptures together godlie and diligente readers whatsoeuer maister Dorman saieth of them and he saieth that suche dooynges are healthfull to our soules though M. Dorman thinke or saie otherwise and therefore by Saincte Augustines iudgemente it foloweth that M. Dorman with others perswaded as he is are no godlie nor diligente readers of the Scriptures neither dooe regard the healthe of their soules and therefore no marueile that thei applie the Scriptures so frowardlie and wreste them so violentlie and falselie as thei dooe whereof this booke is an euident exaÌ„ple Saincte Chrysostome also as before was noted agreeyng with saincte Augustine saieth that the holie scripture expoundeth it self and suffereth not the hearer to erre Wherefore we can not but with sainct Augustine and saincte Chrysostome and other aunciente and godlie doctours and fathers muche like and praise this moste profitable and holsome conference of diuers textes of the scriptures And no doubt but the Iewishe priest appoincted to resolue other men of their doubtes did hymself vse the saied confereÌ„ce of scriptures as did those moste godlie and learned priestes saincte Augustine and saincte Chrysostome bothe vse it themselues and also counsaile other so to dooe as beeyng the beste waie to them knowen whereby to attaine to the true vnderstaÌ„dyng of the scriptures But M. Dorman hath a greate desire to bryng vs from the Scriptures to the iudgemente of his high prieste the Pope and therefore this conference of the Scriptures together is so farre out of conceipte with hym that he vntruely chargeth vs for that wee like it verie muche as though wee did therefore mislike all instructids of gods ministers But though we dooe not receiue the Popes instructions for that he is neither Gods nor our ecclesiasticall minister yet it is well knowen to the worlde that we seeke instructions and explications of doubtes of Goddes ministers and preachers of his woorde continually wheras the Papistes vse it more rarelie and vntill of late thei were by vs a little stirred vp thei vsed it nothyng at all so that it seemed by their leauyng of preachyng and kepyng of Gods woorde vnknowen in a straunge language thei would neither haue the doubtfull questions of Gods lawe explicate by conferryng of textes of the scripture together nor by the voice of the priest nor minister neither but would haue had Gods holie woorde wholie