are the grosser if we may reason from that which they holde for if this were true which the Brownists affirme most stiffelie to bee true as the Donatists did before them that where an open wicked man dooth administer the Sacraments they be no Sacraments at all And if this also were as true which they both haue taken vpon them to iustifie the Donatists of olde saying they had no true Sacraments in the Churches and the Brownists that we haue none now It must needes be graunted that the Donatists did the better of both in baptising those which were not before baptized for he that is not baptized ought to be baptized And as no vncircumcised might eate of the Passeouer but was to be cut off from the people of GOD so no vnbaptized is to eate at the table of the Lord. How grosse are the Brownists which take it as a thing vndoubted that we haue no Sacraments and must needes thereupon be assured that they themselues were neuer baptized and so can be but as an heape of vncircumcised and yet seeke not to haue the Sacrament I would haue them answer this question whether a man that knoweth he was neuer baptized can be saued if he seeke not to bee baptized when hee may come by it Let no man imagine that I speake this as though the Brownists should doo well in rebaptizing for their former ground is false wicked and hereticall when they say it is no Sacrament that hath been administred by open offenders and that we haue no Sacraments But if that were true which they hold they should doo much better I will not say to rebaptize but to baptize such as were not before baptized Now where it is generallie obiected that the Donatists perhaps held diuers things which the Brownists doo not I answere that the Donatists indeede held somewhat which the Brownists doo not and the Brownists hold something which they did not For some of the Donatists did cast themselues downe from high places and into the fire accounting them holie Martyres that so died and others defended their doing For thus saith Gaudentius a Donatist Bishop in his Epistle An ista persecutio est quae tot milliq innocentum martyrum arctauit ad mortem Christiani enim secundum euangelium spiritu prompti sed carne infirmi à sacrilega contaminatione caminorum reperto compendio suas animas rapuerunt imitati presbyteri Raziae in Machabaeorum libris exemplum nec frustra timentes quisquis enim eorum manus inciderit non euasit sed quantum velint faciant quod certum est dei esse non possunt qui faciunt contra Deum Whether is that a persecution saith he which hath pent vp in a straight so many thousands of innocent martyres euen vnto death For Christians according to the Gospell being readie in spirit but weake in the flesh finding out a compendious way of their chimneyes haue deliuered their soules from the sacrilegious pollution imitating the example of olde Razia in the bookes of the Machabees not fearing without cause for whosoeuer falleth into their hands doth not escape but let them doo as much as they will that which is certaine they cannot be of God which doo against God booke 2. against Gaudent Chapt. 20. Augustine sheweth that Gaudentius meaning was not that they burnt themselues in their chimneys for feare of persecution vnto death for the ciuill Magistrate did not so persecute them hauing made a lawe against them for banishment but not for death as Augustine sheweth book 2. against Gaudentius chap. 11. Mitiora in vos constituit Imperator propter mansuetudinem Christianam exilium vobis voluit inferre non mortem The Emperour hath decreed more gentle thinges against yee through Christian mildnes he would lay banishment vppon ye and not death But his meaning is that such as fell into their hands were drawne to ioyne with them in worship which he calleth the sacriligious defilement And therfore doth abuse that place of the Gospell to colour such horrible murthering of themselues the spirit is readie but the flesh is weake for fearing least through weakenes they should yéeld to ioyne with the Churches they rather chose to kill themselues This the Brownists doo not but they condemne read prayer or praying after any prescript forme of words which the Donatists did not as may bee gathered by these words of Petilian Si pâ—ecem domino facitis aut funditis orationem nihil vobis penitus prodest Vestras enim debiles preces cruenta vestra conscientia vacuat quia dominus deus puram magis conscientiam quam preces exaudit domino Christe dicente non omnis qui dicit mihi domine domine intrabit in regnum coelorum sed is qui facit voluntatem patris mei qui est in coelis Voluntas dei vtique bona est nam ideo in sacra oratione sic petimus fiat voluntas tua sicut in coelo in terra If ye make prayer to the Lord saith the Donatist or powre foorth supplication it doth profite ye nothing at al for your bloudie conscience doth make your weake prayers of none effect because the Lord God doth rather heare a pure conscience than prayers the Lord Iesus saying that not euerie one that saith vnto me Lord Lord shall enter into the kingdom of heauen but he that doth the will of my father which is in heauen The will of God is good for therefore in the holie prayer we pray thus thy will be done in earth as it is in heauen Thus we see that the Donatist denying that any praied but they sheweth with all that praying they vsed the Lords prayer But what doo I stand to seeke differences betwéen them which can hardlie be found whereas indeede whole bookes doo set foorth at large their agreement I will therefore proceede further to declare in particulars touching the power of Christian Princes in reforming the Church in establishing religion and in punishing heretickes schismatickes and disturbers and in compelling their subiects to the obedience of the trueth or to imbrace the true worship how iniuriouslie Browne hath dealt in his booke and the Brownists that haue written since I haue layd open in my former booke let their sayings be throughlie perused and now shall ye seee a little whether they be not the verie naturall children of the Donatists in this poynt also Thus writeth Gaudentius a Donatist Bishop Per opificem rerum omnium dominum Christum omnipotens deus frabricatum hominem vt deo similem libero demisit arbitrio Scriptum est enim fecit deus hominem dimisit eum in manu arbitrij sui Quid mihi nunc humano imperio eripitur quod largitus est deus Aduerte vir summe quanta in deum sacrilegia perpetrentur vt quod ille tribuit auferat humana praesumptio pro deo se inaniter iactet magna iniuria dei si ab hominibus defendatur Quid de deo aestimat qui eum violentia
heretofore when such prescript formes were alleadged prooue that those wordes were to be saide ouer to God but now being conuinced and confessing that some Psalmes were song to God and for feare least bidding mee prooue againe that the prescript forme was followed when they spake to GOD I should againe charge ye openly to denie the singing of Psalmes to God which I haue shewed yee doe couertly ye seeke another shift and say your Minor proposition which is that I stand to disprooue speaketh of the reading for praying and not of the forme of prayer This is poore stuffe seeing we reason about prescript forme and reading the same praying I do not say that the reading it selfe is praying but I haue prooued that they went together and whether there were cōmandement to followe the prescript formes or not in the blessing for the Priestes to vse In the prayer prescribed for the people to say at the offring the first fruites and in some of the Psalmes whether it be not also lawful to say the Lords prayer praying let wise men iudge Nowe where as I saide the Brownistes doe condemne all Churches by these three arguments against read prayers Maister Greenewood at this is in no small heate as his speech doth shewe for if hee coulde dippe his words tenne times deeper in gall it appeareth hee woulde not spare I trust saith he your madnesse will appeare vnto all men the poyson of Aspes is vnder your tongue But Maister Greenewood If I haue saide the truth which is iustifiable by your owne speeches your sober minde is not to bee boasted off And if your sentence include all Churches what milke and honie doth flow from vnder your lippes Heere is much a doe this man layeth about him as if he were halfe madde but that he is blindfolde I could not escape some sounde blowes Here he hath vp the begger with his clappe dish and the Priest with his Masse booke canuesing ouer the Paternoster for their bellie Here he saith I breath out my accustomed lies slaunders and raylings calling them Brownists and Donatists here he detesteth Donatus his heresies Browne and the Brownists he saith are ours hee willeth mee to remember who is the Father of such vntruthes when I say they condemne al reformed Churches but because my conscience as hee saith did witnesse I had wrongfullie charged him and for him all true Christians I bring it in by necessarie consequence Now if the heate be any thing past heare a little what I saye shewe that I haue any way slaundred ye or rayled vpon yee in that I haue termed you Brownists and Donatists and let mee haue open shame among all men I haue affirmed that the very pith of all your matter is from Maister Brownes bookes conuince mée therein if yee can I haue now published that Brownisme and Donatisme are all one let any Brownist in the land confute me The theefe will not abide to be so called but will say I defie all theeues doth that cleare him when he liueth by theeuerie what are you the better to say I detest the heresies of Donatus and yet holde all that he helde and know not what ye say nor what the heresies of Donatus were more then doth a post shew openly that ye renounce those thinges I haue noted to bée the furies of the Donatists then yee may crie out that ye are slaundred And now for condemning al Churches will ye denie that which is concluded by necessarie consequence from your words Is that against conscience which is brought in by necessarie consequence Ye would seeme to make light of it in this respect that a multitude is not to bee followed to doo euill when ye condemne all Churches but yet it doth sting ye so neere that by no meanes ye can abide to heare of it Thus I did reason and thus I reason still without any witnesse of conscience against me You affirme prescript formes of prayer brought into the publike assemblies to bée the changing the worke of the spirit into an Idoll a tradition breaking Christian libertie and therefore a thing most detestable a dead letter which doth quench the spirit but all reformed Churches haue prescript forme of prayer imposed therefore yee condemne all Churches I am glad your booke may bee seene of all men that they may iudge the soundnes of that answere by which ye would cleere your selfe Ye cannot goe from your first words they be spread in the hands of so many but ye should shame your selfe Ye replie therefore againe that the true Churches might erre in this and yet remaine Churches of God This is strange that ignorance should excuse men that worship an Idoll in stead of God that take away the Christian libertie from the consciences of men and doo that which is most detestable What doo the Papists more than these or what can they bee charged withall which is worse than that which is most detestable And haue ye not set downe now in this your booke in replying vpon the second Argument that all our Ministers must leaue reading their stinted prayers or else stand vnder Gods wrath and all that pray with them How are the Ministers and people of other Churches priuiledged from standing vnder Gods wrath hauing read prayers imposed leiturgies and as you terme them stinted prayers or tell me are they the Churches of God that stand vnder his wrath Now remember who is the father of lyes Well your meaning was not to condemne the Churches nor to meddle with them Why then doo ye giue such sentence of condemnation which reacheth vnto them Tel me but this is there any Brownist which is a disciple and giueth credite vnto ye in this matter that read prayer is most detestable and that such as ioyne in it stand vnder Gods wrath which yet durst ioyne himselfe or might ioyne himselfe vnto any assemblie in the world euen the most reformed Tell me either you or any other chiefe Brownist will say they may pray with any assembly where they follow a prescript forme If ye dare not say this I meane that ye would counsell men to ioyne with a Church that hath read prayer but say they must reprooue and condemne it and if it were not redressed forsake them then bee also ashamed so furiouslie to crie out vpon me which speake nothing herein that I say ye condemne all churches but that which all indifferent men must néedes sée your owne wordes and doctrine doe vpholde As for your bitter accusations vpon no shewe I leaue them and whereas ye require that if I haue any sparkle of grace I would procure that ye might decide the trueth with other Churches I answere that if ye had any sparke of sober wisdome ye could not with such condition lay that vpon me which ye knowe not howe vnable I am to performe You say you might iustly be called an Anabaptist if you shoulde reason thus Imposing of mens writings to be read for praying is an heinous
I haue in this point by denying that there bee swarued from the sacred word of God from the iudgement of the holie Churches and writings of the most worthy noble instruments which God hath at all times giuen to be the guides and lights in the same And if it can be prooued that I haue gone awrie from the trueth but an heire breadth I will reuoke it for trueth is to bee bowed vnto and reuerenced wheresoeuer shee sheweth her sweete face of all that looke to haue any part in her Marke also their writings as they shall come foorth and see wherein they can conuince me of any error falsehood or corruption touching this one forenamed question vnto which they are to be held seeing we set all other controuersies aside Then touching the second sorte which finde fault about handling the matter as if that I should mitigate or make lighter the faults of our Churches at least in this that I do not reprehend them To this I answer first that vnles it can bee shewed that our Church is guilty in some of those crimes which I stand to clere it in I see no reason why I shoulde bee charged to make things lighter which I medle not withall further than in shewing that they be not fundamentall Secondlie I intreate al men to consider that I stand to defend a Church and not the infirmities or offences of a Church in which as there be many bad mēbers so the best are traile If a godlie man because of some apparant sinnes should be accused to be an Atheist an infidell a traitor or a most vile and filthie wretch might not he clere himselfe of such horrible crimes but it must be saide he dooth mittigate his owne infirmities or make them lighter Thirdlie I doo request them to consider the state of our people how speedelie verie manie are carried into great euils and dangers though not all in the same degree I am of this minde that where any thing is amisse in Gods Church it is the part and duetie of the faithfull Ministers of Christ all dutifull reuerence and submission being obserued towards Magistrates publique authoritie peaciblie to seeke redresse of the same with godlie and charitable reprehension I doo also holde that euery christian man is wiselie and soberly with the like deuties of reuerence submission and peaceable behauiour obserued to seeke to haue his conscience informed in all matters which may any way concerne himselfe But we see how farre some haue swarued and doo swarue from this For the rule of charitie and christian dueties being neglected the vttet disgrace and contempt of men is sought and that on either part The warre is made as deadlie as if the grounds of christianitie were in question while some passing the bounds of modestie others doo replie against them after the same manner Our Sauiour saith Satan dooth not cast foorth Satan and shall we thinke then that sinne shall cast foorth sinne Such as condemne and abhorre Schisme and errors and inordinate dealing must bee burthened and reproached with the same notwithstanding which is iniurious And what is in the mouthes of many against this but that the Papists then may as well be excused which condemne Master Luther and other as the fathers of heretiks because swarmes of Anabaptists did followe immediatelie vpon their preaching the Gospel When shall we then here come to an end There wil bee contention in the Church and humaine frailtie hath shewed it selfe this way euen among the holie teachers of old to the sharp reprehension and in manner reproaching one of another as Master Beza noteth in the Epistle of his Booke against Erastus but godlie men when they haue somewhat gone awrie seek to amend their fault by subduing their passions Now looke also vpon the people where wee may see verie many who not regarding the chiefe christian vertues godlie dueties as namelie to be meek to be patient to be lowlie to be full of loue and mercie to deale vprightlie and iustly to guide their families in the feare of God with wholsome instructions and to stand fast in the calling in which God hath set them giue thēselues wholy to this euen as if it were the summe and pith of religion namelie to argue and talke continuallie against matters in the Church against Bishops and Ministers and one against another on both sides Some are proceeded to this that they will come to the assemblies to heare the Sermons and praiers of the Preacher but not to the praiers of the booke which I take to be a more grieuous sinne than manie doo suppose But yet this is not the worst for sundrie are gone further and fallen into a damuable Schisme and the same so much the more feareful dangerous in that manie do not see the foulenes of it but rather holde them as godlie Christians and but a little ouershot in some matters The sore is grieuous and the wound is deepe as I haue small ioy to behold it so haue I lesse desire to make it deeper wishing from my heart that it might rather be cured Such as bee of another minde either in this or in any thing that I haue writtē I craue of them that they wil giue me leaue according to the doctrine and rule of the Apostle fraterne dissentire to dissent in some thing without the breach and hindrance of brotherly loue For as I do greatlie esteeme that rule of S. Paul let as manie as be perfect be thus minded if any be otherwise minded God will reueale it But so farre as we are come let vs proceed by one rule to be like affectioned Phil. 3. so do I much lament to see it almost vtterly neglected and the breach of loue concord as violent among many for euery matter wherein they dissent as if some ground of christianity were in question between them I do not meane that a man ought to consent vnto any error or vnto any euill committed by others or to neglect the instructing and admonishing as his place and calling dooth require But I had rather as one saith answer to God if I must giue account for mercie rather than for rigour and seueritie I knowe there be faults in extremities on both sides as on the one side vnder a perswasion of loue a man may be ouer fauorable in esteeming and bearing as brethren such as hold the foundations of the faith and yet erre in some things and haue great faultes so on the other side vnder a perswasion of zeale against all falsehood and wickednes they may fall into an vncharitable rigour as very many doo The nature of man is more prone to this latter and the fall is more grieuous than in that former few are carried with aboundance of godly loue to offend in ouer fauorable iudging their brethren and because the elect of God haue great infirmities the Scripture doth not warrant men to be rigorous in condemning if a man holding the hatred zeale
for that I say many such returned to professe the Gospell againe as members of the Church and were receiued For saide the Donatists the Church is holie consisting of such as be called foorth and separated from the vnpure and wicked world and therefore no separation being made but such villanous traitors so vile Idolaters and their childrē being communicated withall all your assemblies through this mixture are none other before GOD but heapes of abominable vncleane persons Your teachers are the sonnes of Apostates and traitors and no Ministers of Christ Now looke vpon the Donatists of England Antichrist hath béen exalted according to the prophesie of S. Paule he hath sate in the Temple of God boasting himselfe as God persecuting and murthering Gods true worshippers He is disclosed by the glorious light of the Gospell his damnable doctrine cursed Idolatrie and vsurped tyrannie are cast foorth of this land by the holie sacred power of our dread Soueraigne Ladie Quéene Elizabeth whom God hath placed settled vpon the Throne of this noble Kingdome The true doctrine of faith is published and penalties are by lawes appoynted for such as shall stubbernlie despise the same Our Donatists crie out that our assemblies as ye may see in their printed bookes and that the people were all by constraint receiued immediatlie from Idolatrie into our Church without preaching of the Gospell by the sound of a Trumpet at the Coronation of the Queene that they bee confused assemblies without any separation of the good from the bad They affirme also that our Ministers haue their discent and ordination and power from Antichrist and so are his marked seruants Hereupon not vnderstanding the manifest Scripture that the Apostasie hauing inuaded the Church it continued still euen then the Temple of God in which Antichrist did sit and that the verie Idolaters were within the Church were sealed with the signe of baptisme professed Christ in some points rightlie their children from ancient discent being within the couenant of God and of right to bee baptized the Ministerie of Christ so farre remaining as that it was the authentick seale which was deliuered by the same in a mad furie like blind hypocrites they condemne the reformation by ciuill power and purging Gods Temple by the authoritie of Princes because the Church of Christ is founded and built by the doctrine of the Gospell Herein they are deceiued that they imagine the Princes take vpon them to compell those to bée a Church which were none before whereas indeed they doo but compell those within their kingdome ouer whome the Lord hath set them which haue receiued the signe of the couenant and professe themselues to bee members of the Church accordinglie to renounce and forsake all false worship and to imbrace the doctrine of saluation What other thing did Iosias and other holie Kings of Iuda when they compelled the multitude of Idolaters which were the seede of Abraham and circumcised to forsake their Idolatrie and to worship the Lord It is most cléere also that where the reformation of the Kings was not perfect as appeareth in the bookes of the Kings and Chronicles yet all the foulest things being abolished and the substance of trueth brought in they were reputed godlie Churches where many were false brethren and open offenders The Brownists blinded with their swelling pride and not séeing the euident matters of the Scriptures without all order of that holie discipline of Christ accuse condemne and forsake our Churches vnder the appearance of feruent zeale and rigorous seueritie against all sinne not inferiour to the Donatists as if they were the onely men that stood for Christ and his kingdome they crie out aloude and proclaime all the Ministers of our Churches to be Antichristian the sonnes of the Pope false Prophets Baals Priests that prophesie in Baal and pleade for Baal persecutors of the iust bearing the marke the power and life of the beast because they say our ordeiners bee such They say wee haue no word of God no Sacraments nor true Church but that all is vtterlie polluted and become abominable our assemblies they call the very Synagogs of Antichrist vtterlie fallen from the couenant of God and all that ioyne with them through the pollution of open sinners which are not cast foorth and therefore they haue separated themselues and crie aloude vnto others to doo the same if they will be saued What rule of discipline haue they obserued in this Haue these things béen brought foorth scanned discussed and iudged in the Synods of the learned Pastors and teachers of the Churches Nay but euen as Augustine saith of the other furor dolus tumultus furie deceipt and tumult do beare the sway Then I conclude that in this poynt of accusing condemning and manner of separating themselues from the Church the Donatists and the Brownists doo agree and are alike Some man will here replie that I build vppon a weake ground or rather vpon the sand in prouing the Brownists and the Donatists to bée all one because they are alike in accusing and condemning the Churches and separating themselues from the same For the matter resteth not simply vpon the actions but whether there were iust cause The question will bee whether the Brownists doo that iustlie which the Donatists did vngodly For the Donatists did accuse the Churches and Ministers falsely condemned them most wickedly and therefore their separation could not bee good because it was from the true Churches of Christ but now if the Brownists obiect open and manifest crimes such as cannot be denied their case doth differ farre May not a man separate himselfe from those assemblies where he seeth open sinners suffered on heapes to remaine in the bosome of the Church and where idolatries blasphemies and abominations are committed where the Ministers and gouernment be Antichristian but he must bée a Donatist Moreouer it is certaine the Donatists did condemne all Churches in the world the Brownists doo condemne onely the assemblies as they generally stand in England which is a very great difference The Donatists hold that the Sacraments or the efficacie of them doth depend vpon the worthines of the Minister the Brownists are not of that mind The Donatists did rebaptize the Brownists doo vrge no such thing It may be also they are vnlike in some other things if it be so why should they be termed Donatists Indeed if there be such differences the Brownists haue great wrong to bee called Donatists and to bee condemned with so wicked a sect But what if it fall out otherwise and that it be shewed and prooued manifestlie that they be all one in these things Shall wee not then say they be euen brethren shall they not stand or fall with the Donatists shall they be vngodlie Schismatickes and not these I will procéede from poynt to poynt to compare them together that it may appeare whether there be difference Touching the first it is most true that the Donatists did accuse and condemne
not to make either the being of a Sacrament or the efficacie therof to depend vpon a man but vpon Gods ordinance that he be a minster that deliuer it I will not denie that he must be a minister that doth deliuer it And I say withall that although the Donatists may seeme by some of their speeches to holde a further thing touching this matter yet lay al their sayings together and it is manifest they held that where the sinne was secret in him that did administer the Sacrament deliuered by him was effectuall notwithstanding he were neuer so wicked inwardly but if his sinne were open he was no minister and so no Sacrament but the partie that communicateth with him is polluted by him Potilian the Donatist Bishop in the beginning of his epistle denying that they did rebaptize but that such as were baptized in the Churches were not baptized at all before they baptized them for confirmation vseth this saying ConscieÌ„tia namque dantis attenditur quae abluat accipientis For the conscience of him that giueth is attended which may wash the conscience of him that receiueth Further he saith Qui fidem a perfido sumpserit non fidem percipit sed reatum He that will take faith of the faithlesse receiueth not faith but guiltines And rendring a reason for confirmation he saith Omnis enim res origine et radice consistit si caput non habet aliquid nihil est For euery thing doth consist of an originall and roote and if any thing haue not a head it is nothing Augustine answereth to these sayings of Petilian demanding first what if the conscience of him that giueth be secret and perhaps vncleane how can it wash the conscience of him that receiueth For if the Donatist shall say it apperteineth not to the receiuer whatsoeuer euill lie hid in the conscience of the giuer that ignorance perhaps shal be of this force that vnwittinglie he cannot bee defiled by the conscience of him that baptizeth him let it suffice therefore that the defiled conscience of an other while it is not knowne doth not pollute yet will they say it shall also wash From whence is he washed then that receiueth baptisme of one that hath a polluted conscience and he doth not knowe so much Séeing he saith he that will take faith of him that is faithles doth not receiue faith but guiltines Behold a faithles man doth stand to baptize but he that is to be baptized doth not knowe his vnfaithfulnes what doest thou thinke he shall receiue faith or guiltines If the Donatist say he receiueth faith then he inferreth that it is graunted it may come to passe that a man may receiue faith and not guiltines from an vnfaithful man and so the former saying is false But if the Donatist should answere he receiueth guiltines then he saith the Donatists should baptize those againe which were baptized among themselues by wicked men whose wickednesse was secrete at such time as they did baptize but afterward they were beâ—raied conuict and condemned I say then it is manifest by the practise of the Donatists in not baptizing againe any of those which had béen among them baptized by their owne Ministers whom they estéemed godlie but afterward were disclosed to be ranke hypocrites and so they condemned and cast them foorth that their iudgement was that he was a Minister of Christ though a reprobate touching his owne person and the Sacrament deliuered by him a true Sacrament so long as his wickednes say hid from the knowledge of men howsoeuer the reasons of Petilian which he vttered in the rash heate of his furie may seeme to stretch further And where as Augustine answering to y e rest of the words saith Quapropter siue à fideli siue à perfido dispensatore Sacramentum baptismi quisque percipiat spes ei omnis in Christo sit ne sit maledictus qui spem suam ponit in homine Alioquin si talis quisque in gratia spirituali renascitur qualis est ille à quo baptizatur cum manifestus est qui baptizat homo bonus ipse dat fidem ipse origo radix capútque nascentis est cùm autem latet perfidus baptizator tunc quisque à Christo percipit fidem tunc à Christo ducit originem tunc in Christoradicatur tunc Christo capite gloriatur laborandum est omnibus qui baptizantur vt baptizatores perfidos habeant ignorent eos That is to say Wherefore whosoeuer receiueth the Sacrament of baptisme whether it bee of a faithfull or whether it be of an vnfaithfull dispensor let all his hope be in Christ least he be accursed as one that putteth his trust in man Otherwise if euerie one that is borne in spirituall grace be such an one as he is by whom he is baptized and when he that baptizeth is manifest a good man he giueth faith he is the originall the roote and the head of him that is newe borne but when he that baptizeth is vnfaithfull being not knowne so to be then euerie one receiueth faith of Christ taketh originall from Christ is rooted in Christ and glorieth in Christ his head then all men are to endeuour which are baptized that they may haue vnfaithfull baptizers so they knowe them not to be such His reason is that when the man that baptizeth is secretlie wicked it is most absurd to say his conscience baptizeth or that he is the roote or head of him that is regenerate and therefore the Donatists confessing such to bee truelie baptized he saith it must néeds then be Christ that doth baptize And thereupon inferreth that this absurditie must needes followe which is most foolish to beléeue that it is better to be baptized of a secret wicked man than of the best manifest godlie man because Christ is incomparablie better than the best men Wherefore he wisheth them to confesse whether the Minister be good or bad it is Christ alone that doth baptize that giueth faith that is the roote and the head It will now be said that by this it appeareth the Donatists did ascribe all to the man if he were godlie Let vs see therefore what they answere Cresconius taking vpon him to defend the saying of Petilian in this that the conscience of the giuer doth wash the conscience of the receiuer and Augustine demaunded what if the giuer be of a defiled conscience and secret Cresconius answereth Conscientia dantis attenditur non secundum eius synceritatem quae in illa videri non potest sed secundum famam quae de illa seu vera seu falsa est quia videlicet eius est hominis qui si sceleratus occultus sit sufficit accipienti quod bonae sit existimationis nondum cognitus nondum iudicatus nondum ab ecclesia separatus That is The conscience of the giuer is attended not according to the synceritie thereof which in it cannot be seene but according to the fame which is
of it whether true or false that is to say because it is of that mā who though he be secretlie wicked it is sufficient for the receiuer that he is of good estimatiō not yet knowne not yet iudged not yet separate from the Church Booke 2. Chapt. 17. This blind shift had Cresconius alleaged to auoide those former absurdities and fell into as great that false fame doth baptize By which it appeareth that the whole matter of the Donatists opinion rested in this that an open wicked man onely did not or could not baptize Cresconius calleth vpon Augustine thus Responde quomodo baptizent quos damnauit ecclesia Answere how they can baptize whom the Church hath condemned Augustine doth answere Sic eos baptizare quomodo baptizant quos damnanit Deus antequam de illis quicquam iudicaret ecclesia That they baptize as those doo whom GOD hath cōdemned before the Church hath iudged any thing of them And seeing the secrete wicked man is condemned alreadie by Christ and the Church is subiect to Christ hée inferreth Non igitur debet ecclesia se Christo praeponere vt putet baptizare posse ab illo iudicatos à se autem iudicatos baptizare non posse cum ille semper veraciter iudicet ecclesiastici autem Iudices sicut homines plerunque falluntur Therefore the Church ought not to preferre her selfe before Christ as to thinke that such as are condemned by him can baptize but such as are condemned by her cannot baptize when he alwaies iudgeth truely where the ecclesiasticall Iudges as men are oftentimes deceiued Hereupon hee concludeth Baptizant ergo quantum attinet ad visibile ministerium boni mali inuisibiliter autem per eos baptizat cuius est visibile baptisma inuisibilis gratia Tingere ergo possunt boni mali abluere autem conscientiam non nisi ille qui semper est bonus Therefore both the good and the bad do baptize in as much as appertaineth to the visible ministrie but inuisiblie by them doth hee baptize whose is both the visible baptisme and also the inuisible grace Both the good then and the bad may dippe them in the water but to wash the cōscience there can none but he which is alwaies good Booke 2. Chapt. 21. Cresconius procéedeth demaunding what can be vttered more wicked than this Vt purificet aliū maculosus abluat sordidus emundet immundus det infidelis fidem criminosus faciat innocentem That he which is spotted should purifie another he that is foule should wash he that is vncleane should clense that an Infidell should giue faith that he which is criminous should make another innocent Booke 3. Chapt. 5. Augustine answereth Nec maculosus nec sordidus nec immundus nec infidelis nec criminosus est Christus qui dilexit ecclesiam seipsum tradidit pro ea mundans eam lauacro aquae in verbo faciens nos certos de bonis suis ne malis viciaremur alienis Christ is not spotted nor foule nor vncleane nor an infidell nor criminous which hath loued his Church and giuen himselfe for it cleansing it by the lauer of water through the word making vs sure of his good things that wee cannot be defiled with the euill of other men But now to come to a more cléere opening of this matter whereas Petilian had saide that euerie thing consisteth of an originall and roote and if any thing haue not an head it is nothing and the answere was made that Christ is the originall the roote and the head of him that is baptized and that he is accursed which putteth his trust in man Cresconius dooth replie as Augustine reporteth his words Hoc nos suademus volumus vt semper Christus det fidem Christus sit origo Christiani in Christo radicem Christianus infigat Christus Christiani sit caput Non quaerimus hominem in quo spem constituat accepturus sed quaerimus per quem hoc melius fiat Et quia sine ministro nec vos dicitis hominem posse baptizari quaerimus vtrúmne melius iniustus sit minister an iustus This also saieth the Donatists we will and perswade that Christ alwaies giueth faith Christ is the originall of a Christian in Christ the Christian must fixe his roote that Christ is the head of the Christian wee seeke not a man in whome he that is to be baptized may set his hope but we seeke by whome this may better be done And because you also say a man cannot be baptized without a minister we demaund whether is the better that the minister be vniust or that he be iust Booke 3. chapt 6 7 and 8. Augustine replieth Vbi respondeo ad hoc esse melius vt sit iustus minister quod infirmitas hominis cui sine exemplo laboriosum est difficile quod imperat Deus imitatione boni ministri ad vitam bonam facilius erigatur Vnde dicit Apostolus Paulus imitatores mei estote sicut ego Christi ad hominem vero baptizandum sanctificandum si tantòest melius quod accipitur quantò est melior per quem traditur tanta est in accipientibus baptismorum varietas quanta in ministris diuersitas meritorum Si enim quod sine controuersia creditur melior erat Paulus quam Apollo meliorem baptismum profectò dedit secundùm istam vestram vanam peruersamque sententiam Et si meliorem baptismum dedit profecto eis quos a se non baptizatos gratulatur inuidit Porro si interbonos ministros cum sit alius alio melior non est melior baptismus qui per meliorem datur nullo modo est malus qui etiam per malum datur quando idem baptismus datur ideo per ministros dispares Dei munus aequale est quia non illorum sed eius est Where I answere saieth Augustine That in this respect it is better that the minister be godly because the infirmitie of man to whome without an example it is labour some and difficult to doo that which God commaundeth may more easilie by the imitation of a good minister be raised vp and supported vnto good life Whereupon the Apostle Paul saieth Be yee followers of me as I am of Christ But for the Baptizing and sanctifying a man If it be so much better which is receiued as he is better by whome it is deliuered then there is as great varietie of Baptismes in the receiuers as there is diuersitie of worthines in the ministers For if Paul were better than Apollo which is beleeued without controuersie then hee verelie according to that your vaine and peruerse sentence gaue a better baptisme And if he deliuered a better baptisme doubtles he enuied those for whome hee is glad that they were not baptized by him Moreouer if it be so that among the good Ministers when one is better than another the baptisme is not better which is deliuered by the better it is by no
vult defendere nisiquia non valet suas ipse iniurias vindicare God almightie saith this Donatist by the maker of all thinges the Lord Christ left man to his owne free will being created as in the likenes of GOD. For it is written God made man and left him in the power of his owne will Why should that bee plucked from me by humane authoritie which GOD hath bestowed vpon me Marke most worthie man how great sacrileges are committed against God that humane presumption should take that away which he hath giuen and vainly boast it selfe for God with great iniurie to God if he must be defended by men What doth he esteeme of God which will defend him with violence but that he is not able to reuenge the iniuries done vnto him In what sense this Donatist spake thus may best appeare by the answere of Augustine Secundum illas vestras fallacissimas vanissimásque rationes babenis laxatis atque dimissis humanae licentiae impunita peccata omnia relinquentur nullis oppositis repagulis legum nocendi audacia lasciuiendi libido bacchetur non rex suum regnum non dux militem non prouincialem iudex non dominus seruum nec pater filium à libertate suauitate peccandi minis vllis paenisue compescat Auferte quod sana doctrina pro sanitate orbis terrarum sapienter per Apostolorum dicit vt confirmetis in arbitrio tanto peiore quanto liberiore filios perditionis delete quod ait vas electionis omnis anima potestatibus sublimioribus subdita sit non est enim potestas nisi à deo Quae autem à deo sunt ordinata sunt Quapropter qui resistit potestati dei ordinationi resistit Qui autem resistunt ipsi sibi iudicium acquirunt Principes enim non sunt timori boni operis sed mali Vis autem non timere potestatem Fac bonum habebis laudē ex illa Dei enim minister est vindex in iram ei qui male agit Delete ista si potestis aut ista sicut facitis si non potestis delere cōtemnite Habete de his omnibus pessimum arbitriū ne perdatis liberū arbitriū aut certe quia sicut homines hominibus erubescitis clamate si audetis puniātur homicidia puniantur adulteria puniantur caetera quātalibet sceleris siue libidinis facinora seu flagitia sola sacrilegia volumus à regnantiū legibus impunita An verò aliud dicitis cū dicitis magna dei iniuria si ab hominibus defendatur Quid de deo aestimat qui eū violētia vult defendere nisi quia nō valet suas ipse iniurias vindicare Haec dicentes quid aliud dicitis nisi nulla hominis potestas cōtradicat atque obstrepat nostro libero arbitrio quando iniuriam facimus deo That is According to these your most deceiuable most vaine reasons the raines being let loose to humane licentiousnes all sinnes shall be let goe vnpunished no barres of lawes opposed the boldnes to hurt and lust of rioting shall rage euery where the King shall not with any threatnings or penalties restraine his kingdome nor the Captaine the souldier nor the Iudge any of his circuit nor the master his seruant nor the father his sonne from the libertie and sweetnes of sinning Take away that which sound doctrine for the health of the world saith wiselie by the Apostle and that ye may confirme the children of perdition in a will by how much the more free by so much the worse blot out that which the elect vessell saith Let euerie soule be subiect to the higher powers for there is no power but of God The powers that bee are ordained of God Wherefore he that resisteth the power resisteth the ordinance of God and they that resist shall receiue to themselues damnation For Princes are not a terrour for well dooing but for euill Wilt thou not feare the power Doo well and thou shalt haue praise of it for he is the minister of God for wrath to take vengeance vpon the euill doer Blot out these things if ye can or else as ye doo despise these thinges because ye cannot blot them out Haue a will concerning al these things most euill that ye may not lose your free will Or verely because as men ye are ashamed before men crie out if ye dare let murtherers be punished let adulteries bee punished let other whatsoeuer enormities hainous deeds of wickednes lust be punished wee will that only sacrilegies go vnpunished by the lawes of princes Do ye say any other thing when ye say it is great iniurie to God that he should be defended by men What doth he esteeme of God which will defend him with violence but that he is not able to reuēge the iniuries done to him saying these things what other thing say yee but that no power of man must gainsay or mutter against our free will when we doo iniurie to God Thus farre Augustine But let vs see further what Gaudentius saith Sed belliferae pacis cruentaeque vnitatis se incolas iactant audiant Dominum dicentem pacem meam do vobis pacem relinquo vobis non sicut seculum dat ego do vobis Seculi enim pax inter animos gentium dissidentes armis belli exitu foederatur domini Christi pax salubri lenitate tranquilla volentes inuitat non cogit inuitos But they boast themselues saieth the Donatist as inhabitants of warring peace and bloudie vnitie Let them heare the Lord saying My peace I giue vnto yee my peace I leaue vnto ye not as the world giueth doo I giue For the peace of the world when the minds of the Nations are at discord is couenanted or established with armour and euent of warre The peace of the Lord Christ being calme with healthfull lenitie inuiteth the willing compelleth not the vnwilling This Donatist addeth Ad docendum populum Israel omnipotens Deus prophetis praeconium dedit non regibus imper auit Saluator animarum Dominus Christus ad insinuandam fidem piscatores non milites misit To teach the people of Israel almightie God gaue prophets to preach he inioyned not Kings The sauiour of Soules the Lord Christ to insinuate faith sent fishers and not Souldiers Booke 2. against Gaudentius chapt 11. 16. 26. Let vs see also what Petillian that other Donatist Bishop saith booke 2. against him Chapter 78. Charitas non persequitur non aduersus caeteras animas Imperatores inflammat Charity doth not persecute it doth not inflame or kindle the wrath of rulers against others This was the out-crie of the Donatists against the godly teachers of the churches when the Emperours made any lawes to driue them from their madnes that they had inflamed the rulers to persecute them Iesus Christus it a sidem vener at facere non vt cogeret homines sed potius inuitaret Iesus Christ came so to worke faith not that hee might
of prayer is conuenient and needefull for edification there it is commanded Now let the reader obserue againe your words which are that al our ministers must leaue reading their stincted praiers vpon the booke or else stand vnder Gods wrath and all that so praye with them Master Greenewood complaineth of great iniury wheÌ„ I gather from his words that he condemneth all Churches because hee knoweth that is a matter sufficient alone to bewray the wickednes of Brownisme Now if all our Ministers which pray vpon the booke and the people that pray with them stand vnder the wrath of God for this thing then cannot they be the Church of God for GOD loueth his Church and all Churches haue prescript formes of prayer which their Ministers vse therfore they all stand vnder Gods wrath But they doo it ignorantlie will he say and so say I did all our Churches vntill his papers came abroad and manie haue not as yet seene them and some that haue seene them are not perswaded and so are ignorant still The next thing ye deale with is the Argument which I drawe from the singing Psalmes vpon the booke it is so cleere they did sing them vpon the booke that the Brownist himselfe cannot denie it It is also most manifest they did sing them as hee also now confesseth to God for so are we commaunded in many places sing praises to God Then further he that offereth vp praise to God reading it cannot be gainsaide but that he offereth vp a spirituall sacrifice to God reading Yea praise is one parte of prayer and it is as hard a thing to speake praises to God vpon the booke as to craue by petitions vpon the booke and as spirituall a worke and I may say a more high seruice where is then that grosse fantasie of Master Greenewood which because reading is one thing and speaking to God is another saith a man cannot both read and speake to God at once He cannot say O my God when he readeth but O my booke why art thou so euill printed I argue if the people of God in olde time did both reade the Psalmes vpon the booke and speake vnto the Lord at the same instant how should it not now bee both possible and lawfull for to speake vnto God in praiers while one readeth Hée saieth I denie your Argument I say that is not sufficient to denie the Argument let vs therefore sée the reasons of the deniall Admitte that singing were a part of praier sayeth he yet dooth it not follow that all praier may bee read vpon the booke we must take this vpon your bare word at least such as will may beléeue yée I stand to affirme that one part of praier is as spirituall a worke as another thereupon I also affirme that if one part may bee read vppon the booke and no turning the worke of the spirite into an Idoll no stâ—nting the spirite no quenching the spirit no Idolatrie no hindrance but that hee which readeth may speake vnto God it may be so in any other part And let vs see what hee will bee able to disprooue this withall But hee saieth I speake like an ignorant man to say that singing is praier because they be two diuers actions and exercises of our faith The one neuer read for the other nor saide to be a parte of the other throughout the Scriptures but are plainelie distinguished As I will praye with the Spirite I will pray with vnderstanding I will sing with the spirit I will sing with vnderstanding saith Saint Paul I answer you could no where more vntimelie accuse mee of ignorance then where your owne speech in this and that which followeth next is patched vp with errors almost as thick as the patches vpon a beggars cloake And for answere I say first that Saint Paul dooth distinguish them there is great reason not onelie because the verie singing it selfe is not praier no more then reading or speaking but also that there bee manie praiers which are not song and manie Psalmes and songs which are no formes of praier nor the spéech directed to God a prayer that is no psalme is neuer called a psalme nor any reason why it should but a Psalme that is a praier is called both a Psalme and a praier The Psalme 86. is called Tephillah a praier and consisteth of sundrie petitions The Psalme 90. is so called being the praier of Moses Psalme 102. is called Tephillah leaaui the praier for the poore when hee is in perplexitie and powreth foorth his meditatioÌ„ before the Lord. The people praying for Christs Kingdome did vse to say Hosanna Blessed is he that commeth in the name of the Lord. Psal 118. The Psalme 50. and 119. with many other conta ne petitions almost in euery verse which if a man did pray or desire them earnestly singing it was no Idolatrie singing I graunt is not called praier but men might sing Psalmes to God and were commanded which contained praises and petitions but they were giuen to the Church to be song or read in y e forme of praier saith he but denieth y t this was to be done praying He not only confesseth they were to sing theÌ„ vnto God but also saith the Lord keep me froÌ„ such an error as to denie that yet eueÌ„ in this coÌ„fession falleth into as grose a matter for what can bee more absurd than that a man should vtter and speake euen vnto God that which is a prayer and yet might not pray as when out of the Psalm 118. praying for the kingdome of Christ they cried Hosanna blessed is he that commeth in the name of the Lord or when for some speciall benefite the whole Church was to sing prayse to God and had a prescript forme deliuered vnto them were they to mocke with God and not to speak prayses vnto him indeede from the heart and with chearefulnes or did God commaund them to doe two things which cannot bee done at once or wil any deny that many in singing though the singing it selfe be not praying doe giue hearty thankes to God where thanksgiuing is expressed and craue earnestly when they vtter petitions Master Greenewood doth grieuously complaine of me for doing him foule wrong in saying he denieth that the Psalmes are to be sung to God And what other thing in effect doth he vtter here when hee saith they were not to vtter the wordes of a Psalme to God praying But I willset downe his first words which are these The same may be sayde for the hundreth and second Psalme for although some haue taken it as a prayer of the Prophet when he was in affliction yet may I graunt with you to be taken in the future tense and auoyd that superstition you would fall into for if it had beene giuen vnto the Church to haue beene read as a prayer vnto God it should haue beene saide O Lord heare our prayer and let our crie come vnto thee And therefore it is manifest that
this Psalme was giuen to the Isralites in time of their captiuitie at Babylon or some other such calamitie to comfort and instruct them how to settle themselues and powre foorth their prayers before the Lord. But howe will you prooue that the people were to say ouer these wordes vnto God for wee may see the like by Habbacuc prescribing the people a forme of prayers to comfort themselues and deliuered it to be sung in the assemblies Moreouer after manie other wordes master Greenwood sayth thus And that singing of Psalmes is no part of prayer we may see by the exhortation which the Apostle vseth to the Ephesians saying Speake vnto your selues in Psalmes and Hymnes and spirituall songs And to the Collos where it is sayde Let the word of God dwel in ye plenteously in al wisdome teaching admonishing your selues in psalmes hymnes and spiritual songs And further we reade that Christ our Sauiour did giue thanks and then sing a Psalme after the institution of the Lords Supper for that singing is a reioysing our selues and instructing our selues Now let the reader iudge by comparing that which I haue written in my former booke with these words of his whether I or he be the godles man which dealeth by vnconscionable slaunders and with much euil conscience Master Greenwood denying the vse of prescript forme when wee speake vnto God and I alleadging the Psalmes demandeth how I wil prooue that the people were to say ouer those wordes vnto God And after as you see to prooue that the wordes were not to be vttered or said ouer to God praying he alleageth the sayings of Paule Speaking to your selues and instructing your selues in Psalmes and Hymnes and spirituall songs leauing out in both places the latter ende of the sentence of singing to the Lord. Now when I haue prooued that the verie wordes of some Psalmes were to be said ouer to God because the scripture is cleare in many places Sing Psalmes to God sing prayses to God c. and charged him with denying that the Psalmes are to be sung to God contrarie to such expresse commandement and blamed him for leauing out the parte of the sentence which maketh against him he crieth shame vpon me But master Greenwood it is the light of Gods word and the waight thereof which doth presse ye and cutteth downe all vngodly fantasies and not I. You confesse now because the scripture is plaine that the Psalmes were to be sung to God and yet ye did aske how I would prooue the people were to say ouer the words Then it followeth that the verie prescript forms of wordes were to be saide ouer to God by your confession which is the whole matter that I haue stoode to prooue And now chuse whether you will denie that Psalmes were to be sung to God or confesse that those verie wordes of the Psalmes and the prescript formes were to be said ouer vnto him in singing What will he say now This he will say that they were in those words to be song vnto God but not praying for he saith I must proue the Church did vse to reade the psalmes for praying I wonder how a man can speake to God the sentences which are praiers and not praying Againe I would haue any Brownist shew mee what speach wee can haue to God which is not praier if he say a man dooth speak to God in giuing him thankes and praise in acknowleging his benefites in ascribing vnto him all wisdome power glorie goodnes bountifulnes faithfulnes and mercie A man dooth speake to God when hee confesseth his sinnes when he complaineth of the iniuries and wrongs of others I confesse and I say withall that they be all of them parts of praier Why dooth a man giue thankes and praise and mention Gods benefits but to support his faith and hope that he shall receiue further and to moue the Lord to continue still good vnto him or such like Why doo we speake vnto him of his glorious power wisdome mercie and trueth but that our faith and praier dooth rest vpon those pillers Why doo we confesse our sinnes but as intreating for pardon and what doo we rehearse the vniust outrage of our aduersaries but to procure his iust defence and protection But hee demandeth what this maketh for reading praiers framed by men I answer to the same effect which I haue euer done that this is one of the poorest cauilles that may be among a thousand We reason not about the matter of praiers but about the reading for if the matter bee corrupt and naught the pronouncing or the reading cannot make it better If the matter be erronious it is no more authentick pronounced then read if it be pure and good pronounced the reading cannot hurt it or make it vnpure The reading it selfe is not vnpure when we speake to God for then should not the Psalmes haue béen song vpon the booke vnto him Who is so senceles then as not to sée this conclusion to follow to vtter a prescript forme of words in a Psalme when one speaketh to God is no sinne Therefore to followe a prescript forme of words in any godly praier when one praieth is not sinne for where shall we finde the sinne If it be in following a prescript forme it should haue béen vnlawfull to followe it in the Psalmes If it be in the matter because there bee errors in all mens writings and therefore to bee cast foorth then I say the errors and not the reading is in the fault and for which only there must be the casting forth and so we must cast foorth the praiers of the preachers To his next words I answer that it is not the repeating ouer the same godlie petitions againe euery day that maketh it the sacrifice of fooles but when men doo it of custome without faith and feruent affection for if a man with faith and zeale pray euery day the same praier to God it is acceptable The rest of his words are not worth the repeating and yet he concludeth most falsly that read praier hath no warrant in Gods word The next Argumentis this We may not in the worship of God receiue any tradition which bringerh our libertie into bondage read praier vpon commandement is a tradition that dooth bring our libertie into bondage Against this I opposed that Moses the Prophets and our Sauiour gaue prescript formes of praiers and if the very following a prescript forme imposed by commandement be so detestable a thing how are not they charged with this heinous sinne He answereth that here is a great storme and yet nothing but winde doo ye not know the wind may be so great as to blow downe the house vpon your head especially when the blast of truth commeth against your building which standeth vpon the rotten pillers of errours The counterfaite zeale of Cayphas against the trueth ought not to stay any man from being earnest for the truth But now to the matter your woonted song was