dreadfull sacrifice which is put vpon the altar is offered Which I will demonstrate vnto you by an example for I know many doe say what doth it profit a soule departing out of this world in sinne that mention is made of him in this sacrifice for if any king should send such into banishment as offend him and after their kindred making a crowne should present it to the same king for those banished men who suffer punishment whether would he not bestow vpon them some part of the remission of their sinnes in the same manner vsing prayers for the dead though otherwise sinners we plaite not indeed a crowne but we offer God sacrificed for our sinnes that we might make him who is most mylde propitious both to our selues and them OBSERVATION Marke here an vnbloudie worship and a propitiatorie hoste ouer which memorie was made of such as departed this life before vs c. intreating that by their prayer ours might be heard In fine prayer for all in common out of a beliefe that it is a great helpe to their soules A dreadfull sacrifice put vpon the Altar and offered for our sinnes What Church but the Rom. Catholike doth still obserue this ancient custome Gregorie Nazianzene In his oration in cōmendations of his deceased brother Caesarius Anno 380. And such things they are which we offer which if small and vnanswerable to deserts yet while we doe according to our possibilitie they are acceptable to God And some to witt things or duties we haue alreadie payed and other we will pay offering anniuersarie honors and comemorations c. OBSERVATION Anniuersaries and commemorations for the dead which we in communion with the Church of Rome still obserue and none but we At least the booke of common Prayer expresseth not such practice Gregorie Nyssene In his oration That we are not to lament their death who dyed in faith Lib. de anima Resur That either being purged in this life by prayers and the studie of wisdome or expiated after death by the furnace of a purging fire c. Againe It is altogether necessarie that while that which is faultie is consumed in purging fire the soule also which is vnited with the same faultines should remayne in the fire till that bastard materiall forged and corrupt mixture be entirely abolished being consumed by fire c. OBSERVATION Expiation after death by purging fire The soule relayned in fire till what is vicious and corrupt in it be purged by fire S Chrysostome Hom 12. in Matt. Why doest thou after the death of thy friends call the poore together why doest thou beseech the priests to pray for him I am not ignorant that your replie will be to the end the deceased may attayne to repose and that he may finde his Iudge more propitious or fauourable c. Againe Hom 21. vpon the Acts. Then shall his wife with confidence pray to or petition him God putting downe the price of our Redemption for him By how much he was more subiect to sinne by so much more stood be in need of almes deeds Call the widowes and tell his name Order euery one to make supplications and prayer for him This will appease God though it be not performed by himselfe but another for his sake be the Authour of the Almes And this is a doctrine of the dinine Mercy God hath giuen vs many wayes of saluation c. Oblations prayers and almes are not made in vaine for the dead The holy Ghost disposed all these things willing that we should helpe one another Againe Oration ◠1. vpon the first to the Corinth supplications almes oblations which he mentioned immediatly before were not rashly inuented nor doe we in vaine make memorie in the diuine mysteries of the deceased and approaching we beseech the proposed lambe who tooke away the sinne of the world in their behalfe but that they might haue some consolation thereby Neither doth he who is present at the Altar while the venerable mysteries are performed crye in vaine For all those who haue reposed in our Lord and those also who celebrate their memories c. for what we doe are not stage-playes God defend but these things are done by the ordinance of the Holy Ghost Againe In his Epist to the Philipp the 3. serm moral These things were not establisbed in vaine by the Apostolicall lawes or Constitutions that a memorie should be made of those who haue departed this life in the venerable and dreadfull mysteries OBSERVATION The priest makes prayer to God for propitiation to the sinnes of the dead For their repose The price of our Redemptiō is put downe for them Vse of the name of the deceased which the Catholike Church obserues yet in the Collect of the Masse of the dead as Peter Paul c. Prayer and supplications though performed by others appease Gods wrath is a doctrine of the diuine mercy disposed by the holy Gh. An Apostolicall constitution that memorie should be made in the diuine mysteries or Masse of the soules departed Theodoret. In the 5. booke of his Ecclesiasticall historie ◠36. The Emperour Theodosius hauing placed his eyes and aspect vpon the biere wherein were the reliques of that holy man S. Chrysostome he powred out prayers for his parents and intreated that they might be pardoned the iniuries which they had done through ignorance Now his parents were deceased long before c. Againe He offered prayers to God for the deceased beseeching him to remitt In the Historie of the holy Fathers of Iames Nisibit◠what he had offended in his life tyme and that he would daigne to receiue him into the Quire of Angels OBSERVATION Prayers at or ouer the Reliques of Saints a thing neuer heard of in our English Protestant Church for the soules departed that the iniuries which they had done might be pardoned not that the number of the elect be shortly actomplished c. which onely was the custome of the English Protestants in their Forme of Buriall Basilius Seleucius In his serm of Lazarus his being raysed to life If he who dyed were a sinner and had much offended God we must not onely weepe but giue almes also offer the Sacrifice of the Altar and performe such other things as may afford some consolation to the soule departed OBSERVATION Almes giuen and the Sacrifice of the Altar offered for the soules departed This practice is not found in the Order for the buriall of the dead in the booke of Cōmon prayer but is peculiar to the Catholike Rom. Church Procopius Gazaeus vpon the sixt chapter of Isaye makes mention of a purging fire Gregorius Presbyter In Theodoro Archiman drita Where some said to him that his mother was dead thou art deceiued quoth he she is not dead but liues He powred out prayers to our Lord for her fasting for the space of a weeke that our Lord would pardon her Leontius In the life of Iohn
Angels receiue man cōuerted from his old errour againe they the Angels holy soules and blessed spirits endeauour saith he to reconcile God to such as shall serue him and pray iointly with vs contra Celsum l. 8. pag. 432. Againe infinite millions of Angels make intercession for maukind Againe who doubts but all the holy Fathers assiste vs with their prayers in Num. c. 32. hom 26. Now make him blow hot and cold with the same breath and speake for you saying all prayers are to be offered to God c. nor will our religion permitt vs to supplicate or pray to any other whomsoeuer Loe you haue made him quarrell with himselfe but what haue you gotten saue onely by contradicting himselfe you haue destroyed the credit of the Authour you depend vpon while you hurt not vs who want not a number of others to relye vpon Were it not better to saue his credit saying with S. Hierome Origene Methodius Euscbius and Apollinaris write against Celsus and Porphyrius Consider with what arguments and with how many gliding problemes they dissolue the things which were wouen by the spirit of the Diuel and because sometymes they are compelled to speake they speake not what they thinke but what they are forced by necessitie to oppose to the Doctrine of the Gentils For saith he not in the same booke that had he discourered that Celsus had by Angells vnderstood true Angells as Gab. Mich. c. he would then according to his abilitie haue said something to the matter by reiecting the word Adoration and the actions of the Adorer that is offerings and Sacrifices and the giuing of the worship of Latria so that it is manifest that he denies not the prayer to the Saints absolutely but onely in the sense in which they held their false Gods were to be prayed to and adored which according to Plato they tearmed Angells and gaue them soueraigne honour as is cleare from S. Aug. in his 10. booke of the Gitty and is partly cited aboue where they are tearmed lesser Gods For saith he of the Angells in the same place though they doe descend c. and offer the prayers of men yet are they not at all so called Gods as that we are commanded to adore them or to worship them with diuine honour And to this we all say so be it contenting our selues to afford them an inferiour honour sortable to seruants which beares no proportion to that soueraigne and diuine honour which we reserue for the Great Master alone Cos. Tertullian in his booke of Prayer chap. 12. THese prayers are vaine and deseruedly farelted which are made without the authoritie and precept of Christ or his Apostles For such prayers be not for religion but superstition Car. Sinceritie is still desired The authours words are still either so indirectly or sparingly put downe that it is impossible they should beare out his sense and make it intelligible to the Reader Tertull. in this place speakes not one word of Prayer to Angels or Saints either in expresse tearmes or can the exigencie or scope of his meaning be wrested to it He speakes onely of certaine friuolous formes which he points out in particular leauing no place to mistake what he meant or obseruations in prayer which he saith rather conduce to superstition then to religion as is saith he the custome of some to put of their cloakes to pray c. Marke his owne words as they lye and then indge what reason you haue to make vse of them Hauing described some manner of praying he goes on saying But sith we haue touched one certaine point or part of an idle obseruation I will not fayle to marke out the rest caetera to which vanitie is deseruedly exprobrated because they are done without the authoritie of any precept either of our Lord or his Apostles What was it then which was reputed vaine as being done without authoritie c. what but the rest caetera And what was the rest was it happily prayer to Saints No not any syllable intimating that but the rest was such as was the vnum aliquod to witt emptie obseruation such then and not prayer to Saints must the rest be in good consequence nor dare any deny it since not I but the Authour himselfe a lyne after concludes it saying as is that of certaine persons putting of their cloakes to pray this clause cleares the doubt and yet is left out and not looked vpon Let vs now examine whether any fairer dealing or more sinceritie be vsed in the next allegation out of the same Authour In his Apologet. ch 30. Cos. THese things I can aske and pray for of no other but of him who I know is able alone to giue them to me and whom alone I serue Car. Nor here againe is there any mention made of Angels in tearmes nor doth the subiect oblige to any thought of them Nor are indeed the Authours words putt downe fairely as they lye though the sense is almost the same These things saith he I can pray for of no other then of whom I know I shall obtayne them because euen he it is who alone doth giue and I am he whose part it is to impetrate being his seruant who obserue him alone Marke onely what these things were which he prayed for in whose person he spake and to whom and you will easily discouer this place conteynes no difficulty at all The things he prays for are as himselfe declares in the precedent lyne Long life to all Emperours asecure raigne a safe Pallace stronge armies a faithfull Senate an honest people a peaceable world c. He speakes it in the person of Christians who were accused by the Ethnicks that they prayed not to their Gods for the Emperour Where vpō he makes an Apologie for them to the Emperour shewing that though they pray not to their false Gods who were but indeed dead men and therfore lesse powerfull then himselfe yet he retorts vpon the Ethnicks in these tearmes but you are irreligious who seeke safetie to witt by the meanes of false Gods where it is not you demand it of those that are not able to giue it ouerpassing him in whose power it is and so concludes that Christians haue not recourse to their Gods as they haue but to the true God in these words But we call vpon the eternall God the true God the liuing God because he alone is able to giue it He I say not the false Gods whom alone he excludes from that power of helping the Emperour without hauing any thought or making any relation to the Angels or Saints at all which yet he should haue done to haue made this place vsefull for your purpose as you must needs confesse Cos. S. Athanasius l. 4. against the Arrians NO man should pray to God and the Angels to receaue any thing but ought to petition the Father and the sonne c. Car. Still is the Authour surprised as it were and forced to speake
clearing of the place and discouering Theodorets sense in point of honoring and praying to the Saints or Angels let himselfe be heard speake where he discourses more plainely and fully vpon that subiect In his Epitome of Diuine dccrees De Angelis c. 7. THe diuine Daniel the Prophcte did also affirme that some to witt Angels wherof he spake were Princes of Nations c. And added withall that no other did helpe him while he made intercession to God for the libertie of the I ewes then Michael their Prince The 8. booke of the cure of the Grecian affections THe generous soules of the tryumphant Martyrs walke now in heauen and are present amidst the Quires of Angells Marrie euen their bodyes are not contaynd in their particular monumets The ancient deuotion to reliques which is neuer heard of amingst the protestants but the citties and villages hauing deuided them amongst them instile thē conseruers of their soules and Phisitians of their bodyes and worship them as Presidents and keepers of their citties and making vse of their intercession to God they obtayne diuine gifts through their fauour Their intercession made vse of Their bodyes being cuttin pieces the vertue of them remaynes entire and vndeuided And those so litle and diminutiue reliques haue an equall vertue to the whole Martyr Fauours and cures obtayned at and by meanes of their reliques while vndeuided and vncutt into pieces For the vertue present distributes fauours and proportions its liberalitie to the faith of the suppliants And euen these things moue not you to prayse their God but you deride and scoffe at the honour which all euery where exhibite to them and repute it an abominable crime to draw neere their graues In the same booke about à leafe after VVhy are you offended with vs who make not Gods Their honour but honour Martyrs as witnesses of God and most louing seruants Againe in the same booke BVt the faire and famours Temples of the victorious Martyrs appeare illustrious for greatnes Temples built to God in their name and honor excellencie and all kind of ornament and streames out the splendour of their beauteousnes on euery side Nor doe we frequent them once twice of fiue times a yeare but we celebrate frequent assemblies nay oftē we sing prayses euerie day to their Lord and Master And those that are in good health begge the conseruation of it such as are afflicted with any disease intreate to be freed of it They also demand children who want them and such as are sterill desire to become mothers c. Trauellers sue to them to be companions and guides of their iourney who returne safe render thankes Prayer to them Nor doe they goe to them as to Gods but pray to them as heauenly men and deseech them to be pleased to be intercessours for them Now that such as faithfully demand obtayne their desires their Donaries speaking their cures openly publish For some hang vp resmblances of eyes others of hands and feete made of siluer or gold To witt their Master accepts of small things and of litle value measuring the gift by the abilitie of the giuer And a litle after NAy further they are carefull to call their newborne children by their names procureing to them therby securitie and safe custodie Is it possible that this Authours testimonie should euer be vsed against honour and prayer to Saints Did euer or could euer any Catholike speake more aduantagiously in his owne behalfe Could the Authour euer more clearely expresse himselfe a Catholike or euen more fully and freely and euidently deliuer Catholike dutie and practise in this behalfe Which he himselfe also obserued in his Religious Historie c. 3. of Macarius his life saying in the end of the same I making an end of this narration pray and beseech that by the intercession of all these of whom he spake I may obtayne the diuine assistance And c. 18 of Eusebius And I pray that I may obtayne that intercession which hitherto I haue enioyed while he was yet aliue c. And finally in c. 27. of Baradatus Grant that by the assistance of their prayers I may approach to that Mountaine c. COSENS Saint Augustin in his 10. booke of Confessions chap. 42. hath these words Whom should I find that might reconcile me to thee ô my God Must I goe to the Angels With what prayer with what Sacrament should I doe it I heare that many desireing to returne to thee and being not able to doe it by themselues haue made tryall of this way and haue bene very deseruedly deluded by it CARRE There is some thing in that Passage which is most materiall omitted some what also false translated Take therfore the passage word for word as it lyes Whom could I find that might reconcile me to thee Was I to goe to Angels With what prayer with what Sacramēts was I to doe it is not in the text howbeit that much imports not Many desiring to returne to thee and not being able to doe it by themselues as I heare haue tryed these things haec can not at least be referred to the Angels alone and haue fallen into a desire of curious visions this clause of curious visions is quite left out though most materiall and were held worthy of illusions or to be illuded by it these words byit are added to the text because they may seeme to referre to the going to the Angels as though that were the cause of their being illuded which serues the better to patch up the Doctors sense wheras indeed their being illuded might either be imputed to their going to the Angels Prayer Sacramēts or els more immediately and apparently to the desire they had to haue curious visions which can neuer be deuoyd of fault But if he will needs haue all the mischeife be putt vpon their going to the Angels Let him please either to looke vpon the marginall notes in what impression so euer of his whole workes where he will find remedia vitiorum à Daemonibus the remedies of vices from the Diuells or els take the paynes to read on fiue or sixe lynes further and he will discouer what Angels S. Augustine spake of who saith For they being highminded sought thee in the pride of their learning and did rather exalt their hearts then kenecke their breasts And so they drew the Princes of the ayre towards them who conspired and were companions with them in the same pride and by them they were deluded through magicall powers c. For the diuell was transforming himselfe into an Angell of light Behold how and by what Angell they were deluded and consequently how this apparent difficultie falls all in pieces If any desire a clearer prospect vpō S. Augustins mynde herein by knowing of whom he had heard this opinion of being purged and reconciled to God by the mediation of the Angels c. Les him take the paynes to read what the same Saint saith in
his 9. and tenth booke of the citie of God all ouer and he will plainely discouer to what he there alludes to witt to the opinions of Trismegistus the Platoniques and after them it may be to the Symoneans who were sicke of the same disease as saith Tertullian in these tearmes The discipline of the Magicalart of the Symoneans ser uing the Angels is counted among the idolatries Who held that men were to goe to the supreme God by the lesser Gods or Angells hauing first vsed holy purifications or purgations As l. 10. c. 9. speaking against Porphyrius a Platonique For Forphyrius doth promise a certaine purgation as it were of the soule by him called Theurgia yet he doth it with a certaine hesitation and as one would say with a blushing kind of disputation and denyes that any by this Art is helped to returne to God so that one may discouer him wauering betwixt the vice of sacrilegious curiositie and a Philosophicall profession now putting one opinton now another For now he warnes vs to beware of this Art as deceiptfull and dangerous in the deed doing and prohibited by the law And soone after as giuing way to such as prayse it affirmes it conducible to the cleansing a part of the soule not the intellectuall part wherein the Truth of intelligible things which haue no corporeall similitudes are discouered but the spirituall part capable of corporeall images or resemblances for this part saith he is adapted and fitted by certaine Theurgicall consecrations which are called Teletae to the receipt of spirits and Angels wherby to see the Gods And ibid. ch 16. wheras therfore some Angells doe excite men to worship this one God and some againe excite them by working wonders to honor themselues with soueraigne worship Latriâ and so too that those forbid that these should be worshipped let the Platonique say to whom we should rather giue credit yea let what Philosophers soeuer say let the Theurgi or rather the Perurgi c. Nay lastly let euen men say if there be yet any sense of humane nature wherby they are created reasonable creatures in any measure left in them whether we ought rather to sacrifice to those Gods or Angells who command that sacrifice should be offered to them or to him alone to whom these command it who forbidd that sacrifice be offered either to themselues or to those others The 9. booke of the Cittie LEast any should East any should thinks he ought to follow them as good Daemones Angells by whose meanes or mediation as it were while he doth desire and studiously en deauour to be reconciled to the Gods which euery one beleeuees to be good c. he may wander far from the true God But that which I most admire is that you Mr. Cos. whom reports haue alwayes deliuered to vs for a learned moderate and ingenuous man should picke out such abstruse passages which being well looked into make nothing at all for you and endeauour amidst such darknes to wrest your will from a Father by forceing him to speake against what he hath dogmatically and clearly deliuered in so many other passages which you might with as much facilitie haue met withall as In the II. booke of the Cittie of God Chap. 31. BVt the holy Angels after whose societie and companie we grone in this most perilous pilgrimage as they haue an eternall permanencic so haue they a facilitie in knowing We are aâ—â—â—sted by them and a felicitie in reposing for without difficultie they helpe vs because they labour not in their spirituall pure and free motions Epistle 121. chap. 9. OR happily let them to witt our prayers be knowen to the Angels who are with God that in what manner they are to offer them to God and what counsell they are to vse therm Tâ—â—y offer our praters to God And what by his comand to witt Gods they know ought to be fulfilled c. they may bring vnto vs either openly or couertly for the Angel said to the man Tobic And now when thou and Sara didst pray I offered your prayer in the sight of Gods claritie In his 6. Chap. of his Annotations vpon Iob. HAue mercy on me haue mercy on me o friends heseemes to Welairfully pray to them bescech the Angels that they would become intercessours for him or at least the Saints that they would pray for a penitent The Cittie of God the 22. booke Chap. 8. I Had begun to dispute more diligently of the whole cause and behold while I disputed other voyces of new gratulations are heard froÌ„ the Martyrs shrine The publique practise of praying at the shrines of the Martyrs My Auditours turned and began to run that way for she to witt Palladia Pauls Sister as soone as the was downe the staires where she had stood she was gone to pray to the holy Martyr ad sanctum Martyrem orare to pray to the Martyr or at the shrine of the Martyr to witt S. Stephen as is plaine by these words following What was in the hearts of those that exulted but the faith of Christ for which Stephens bloud was powred out who as soone as she had touched the rayles falling as it were downe into a sleepe she rose sound A mirucle Wrought in S Augugustins sight While therfore we made inquirie what had befallen which had caused that ioyfull noyse they brought her sound into that part of the Church where we were froÌ„ the place where the Martyr lay Then both men and women made so great an admiting noyse that the bruite continuing with teares seemed to find no periode She was lead to that place where a litle before she had stood trembling c. The 7. booke and 1. Chap. against the Donatists LEt him S. Syprian of whom he spake helpe vs by his prayers in the mortalitie of this flesh A saint prayd to in particular as persons labouring in a darke cloude c. Vpon Psalme the 83. ALl the Martyrs which are with him Christ doe intercede for vs The Saints interceede for vs. Their intercessions are not ended saue with the end of our sobbings The 1. Sermon on the feast of S. Stephen SAint Stephen was heard that by his prayers Sauls sinne might be blotted out We counselled to pray to S. Stephen Let vs therfore coÌ„mend our selues to his prayers For much more is he now heard for those that pray rightly to him In Psalm 88. Sermon 2. LEt vs celebrate the birthdayes of Saints with sobrietie Their birth-dayes celebrated that we may imitate them who went before vs and let them reioyce in vs who pray for vs that the blessing of our Lord may for euer remayne with vs. In the Citie of God 10. booke the 12. chap. When his Angels doe heare The Angels heare vs. he God doth heare in them as in his true temple not made by the hands of men Against Faustus the 20. booke the Chap. 21. CHristiaÌ„ people doe
celebrate together the Memories of Martyrs with a religious solemnitie Religious worship both to excite imitation Sacrifice to be made fellow partners in their merits and to be helped by their prayers yet so as we offer sacrifice to none of the Martyrs but to the verie God of Martyrs Altars though we erect Altars in the Memories of Martyrs c. If then saint Augustins mynde be made good by so many and so manifest places To what end should the D. come yet coldly dropping another seeming place out of the said saint or to what purpose should I answere it Howbeit lets yet heare him speake for euery ones full satisfaction S. Augustin l. 2. contra Ep. Parm. chap. 8. Cos. IF the Apostle had said you shall haue one for your Aduocate and I will pray the Father for your sinnes what good or faithfull Christian would haue endured it or accompted him one of Christs Apostles and not rather haue looked vpon him as vpon an Antichrist Car. I answer first that by Aduocate which is indeed in the text Mediatour the D. will either haue S. Augustine after the Apostle to meane the Principall and immediate Mediatour Mediatour which if the Apostle had assumed to himselfe he had iustly bene looked vpon by all good Christians not as an Apostle of Christ but rather as an Antichrist or els the mediate lesse principall and impropre Mediatour which he must meane if he would haue the place to make any thing against a Catholike and to his purpose And such certainly the Apostle both might be and was and yet is farre from incurring the censure of an Antichrist sith S. Iohn was doubtlessy a Bishop and euery Bishop if we beleeue S. Paul Heb. 5. is taken from among men and is ordayned for men in things pertayning to God that he may offer both guifts and sacrifices for sinne which is to be some kind of Mediatour or Aduocate representing their miseries pleading their cause and mediating their reconcilement to God by Christ the onely properly true Mediatour of Redemptiō In this kind of Mediation are the Priests employed saith Ioel c. 2. Betweene the porch and the Altar shall the Priests the Ministers of our Lord weepe and shall say spare ô Lord spare thy people and giue not thyne inheritance into reproach that the heathens should rule ouer them and thus finally concludes S. Aug. in this place doe all Christiā men commend themselues mutually to one anothers prayers So farre is he from speaking against mediating in this second sense or consequently from apprehending that derogatorie to Christ our prime Mediatour I answere secondly that here againe is a whole clause left out whence the clearing of the difficultie was to be demanded to witt As Parmenianus in a certaine place put a Bishop Mediatour betwixt the people and God And how did Parmenianus put Bishops Mediatours c marrie as purifiers and iustifiers of men by their owne vertue and iustice since they the Donatists allowed vertue and effect to the Sacraments and Sacrifice onely according to the qualitie of the Minister or offerer which was indeed to assume to themselues the proper Mediation of Christ Iesus who onely of himselfe is able to appease Gods wrath against sinne as being our principal immediate primarie Mediatour and indeed our onely Mediatour of Redemption who by the right of his owne merits obtaynes grace forvs the others onely by him and by his merits Such a Mediatour it is manifest S. Aug. spake of in this place and such we admitt none but Christ alone who spake against the pride of the Donatists which forsoothe would haue no spott or vice to be amongst them or their fellowes as saith S. Augustine in the chap. immediately before which was a prerogatiue due to Christ alone who was that one and true Mediatour for whō none prayed he prayed for all as saith the said St. in this 8. chap. In fine one of S. Augustines principall designes in this place was to proue against the Donatists that they iniustly separated themselues from the Catholike Church vpon pretence of the wickednes of the Bishops and priests in the Church for dato that it were so indeed yet were that no iust cause of a diuision or schisme since be the Bishops and priests what they will we ought alwayes to be secure of one Mediatour Iesus Christ the iust whom we haue an Aduocate with the Father and he is the propitiation for our sinnes Hence I beleeue the weakest may obserue that it is not fairely done of Mr. Cos. to make vse of the mistaken sense of an obscure passage in an Authour to stagger the vnlettered who are not able to examine him while being examined he beares no shew of difficultie along with him COSENS S Irenaeus against Heresies 2. booke chap. 57. THe Church Catholike doth not inuocate Angels bnt purely calleth vpon God and Christ CARRE Still something is left out most important to the clearing of the difficultie S. Irenaeus his words are these Neither doth it to witt the vniuersall Church doc any thing by Angelicall inuocations nor by incantations nor by any other wicked curiositie these words by incantations nor by any other wicked curiositie are omitted but cleanely purely and manifestly directing prayers to God c. Now what doe these words incantations and wicked curiosities lead vs to but the old heretiques to witt the Symonians the Marcites Meandriās and Carpocratiās against whom he had spoken shewing here that the Catholike Church in working her true miracles did not vse their proceeding in working false ones which they did by the inuocation and superstitious naming of Angels to whom they ascribed the creation of the world by incantations and spells whereby they deluded many especially poore women robbing them of fortunes and honour with the exercise of innumerable villanies as is to be seene in the 9. 20. 22. and and 24. chapters of his first booke but by fasting and prayer performed chastely purely openly and without hope of lucre His words are That vniuerfall Church which is in euery place demanding by fasting and much prayer the spirit os life returned to the dead man who was giuen to the Saints prayers What is here yet I pray against the inuocation of Saints Cos. Origene against Celsus l. 5. ALl prayers are to be sent and offered vp vnto God by our Angel and high Priest who is the Prince and Lord of all Angels Nor will our Religion permitt vs to supplicate or pray to any other whom so euer Car. Answer First your choyce herein is not verie happie if you should make him stand vp alone against all antiquitie ingenous men would not esteeme his word were sufficient caution after his so many errours yea euen in this place where he destroyes Christs Diuinitie making him inferiour to his heauenly Father Howbeit if you admitt his authoritie vpon this matter so doe I and thus I produce him speaking of the Angels in the same place O
Againe vpon the 37. Psalme They would be secure c. not onlie from that eternall fire which shall torment the wicked for euer but also from that too wich shall purge emendabit those who shall be safe by fire And a little aster That fire shall be more grieuous then any thing a man can suffer in this life Now we haue found in the Fathers formall tearmes not in our owne forced consequences which were not in question Prayer made at the Altar Sacrisice for the Dead yea and Fire too wherein their soules are tormented and yet some will not be satisfied but will haue that fire to be vnderstood of the Fire of Conflagration at the day of Doome Let vs therefore yet heare saint Augustine wipe awaie this scruple De Ciu. Dei l. 21. c. 23. Paines suffered before the day of Iudgement And it is manifest that such are purged by temporall paines which their spirits suffer before the day of iudgement Againe in the same booke chap. 13. Some suffer temporall paines in this life onlie others after death some both now and then yet before that most seuere and last Iudgement And the same againe the 21 booke chapter the first So that now out of S. Augustine we haue found Prayer Memorie at the Altar Sacrifice Fire which is temporall and that too punishing the spirit or ghost of the dead euen before the day of Generall Conslagration at the day of Doome To thinke to answer all that hath benesaid by opposing some few obscure places cull'd out of the same Father and so were it possible to force him to contradict himselfe were in my iudgment but verie bad payment For first this is not to produce euidences but doubts not to cleare but to obscure difficulties and consequently ought to haue no force at all to thrust a man out of his possession Possideo quia possideo still dasheth such weake opposition vpon the head Secondly it is but a poore shift to make a Father seeme to stand up against himselfe to the end he may stand with them Thirdly it is to treate a holy Father vnworthily to endeauour to draw his sense from his words In his booke de Doctrina Christiana against his owne rule and the Rule of Reason which is that clearer places should illustrate obscure places not that obscure places should be industriously employed to clowde cleare places That is but to put out the light to see better or rather to hate and flye the light least it might lay them naked and they be discouered by it The worst of arguments was wōt to be to ayme to proue an obscure thing by a thing more obscure and yet it is farre worse to darken a cleare thing by an obscure and yet forsooth thinke to haue so preposterous a proceeding passe for an argument Our proceeding is not such our Catholike custome is to pray for to make Commemoration of to Sacrifice at the Altar for the soules departed that they may be releeued or freed from their paines which are caused by fire before the day of iudgement And we bring in our iudge saint Augustine to whom we haue both appealed pronouncing sentence for vs in tearmes in the verie same wordes the Church doth beleeue and practise it We doe not make his sentence for him but take from him such as he pleaseth to deliuer it We vse no violence to him to make him speake what we please but we are well pleased with what he speakes we goe not about to surprise him and wrest a word from him and then force it to our purpose which was spoken only by the bye while he was treating vpon another subiect But wee take his iudgement from places where on sett purpose he is handling that subiect which is in question betwixt vs. In fine wee take it not from one or a fewe which is another Rule of reason to vnderstand a fewe places by many places but from abundance of places all cleare and consonant and to the life expressing the present practice of the Catholike Church Heare him againe and againe in these ensuing passages which I will here promiscuously putt downe as they shall occurre omitting yet a manie more S. Aug. de Ciu. Dei l. 21. c. 16. He speakes of Children soone after their infancie and saies If he haue receiued the Sacraments of our Mediatour though he end his life euen in these yeares that is being translated out of the power of darknes into the kingdome of Christ he is not only not prepared for paines eternall but shall not euen suffer anie purging torments after this life De Ciu. Dei l. 21. c. 24. The prayer of the Church or of certaine pious people are heard for those who being regenerated in Christ neither ledd se verie ill a life in this mortalitie as they should be iudged vnworthie of such mercie nor yet so verie well as that they should be found not to neede such mercie De verb. Apost Ser. 32. It is not to be doubted but the Dead are helped by the prayers of the holy Church and the sauing Sacrifice and almes which are employed for their soules that our Lord may deale more mercifully with them then their sinnes deserued for the Vniuersall Church obserues this deliuered by their forefathers that prayers should be made for those who died in the communion of the bodie and bloud of Christ when at the Sacrifice they are remembred in their place and memorie is made that it is offered euen for them too And againe in the same place But let them employ these things to witt Oblations Prayers and guifts or Almes-deeds which helpe the soules departed more obseruantly instanly and abundantly for them to witt the dead Enchir. c. 110. It ought not to be denied that the soules of the dead are releeued by the pietie of their suruiuing friends when the Sacrifice of our Mediatour is offered for them or almes are giuen in the Church And againe in the same place When therefore the sacrifices either of the altar or what almes-deedes soeuer are offered for all the dead which are baptised they are thankesguings for such as are verie good they are propitations for those who are not verie euill and though to such as are verie euill they be no helpes to the dead yet are they some kind of comforts to the liuing De verbis Apostoli Serm. 17. Therefore doth ecclesiasticall discipline obserue that which the faithfull know when the Martyrs in that place are recited at the Altar of God where we pray not for them the Martyrs but we pray for the rest of the departed whereof commemoration is made For it is an iniurie to pray for a martyr to whose prayers we our-selues ought to be commended De cura pro mortuis Cap. 18. Which being so let vs not esteeme that the dead haue anie aduantage by being buried in this or that part of the Church whereof he had spoken saue only by the solemne supplications which we make
diminish their reality And if you thinke this Councell but pretendedly Great which consisted of the great est number of the greatest persons both Ecclesiasticall and secular that euer met together in the world I must needs thinke that the common sence and vnderstanding of a man is in you but pretended Doth not Platina the Popes owne Secretary close by the words cited by you say Pontifex apud Lateranum maximum Concilium celebrat And doth not your owne Mathew Paris in the words by you cited say Concilium illud Generale besides many more and better witnesses And can you after all this call it soe scornefully a pretended Great Councell yea no Generall Councell no Councell at all as you doe in the latter end of your pamphlet Surely you are Goliath that defie the whole hoste of Israël yet euery one though as little as Dauid is able to cut of your head with your owne sword Now the grounds of your suspition wherby you would dismount the Canons of this great Councell are so feeble that they shew you are no skilfull enginier Wherof one is because Merlin hath it not in his edition hee could not meet with it to set it forth But this is a poore argument for first wee know that there were many other Councells which Merlin could not meet with which haue since beene put forth and Protestants I thinke will not deny that there were such as the second of Nice fower of Lateran two of Lions one of Vienne and one of Florence and this of Florence was celebrated later than any that hee sets downe and was the last Generall one that was held before his publishing of his booke about fowerscore yeares before it And yet it seemes that hee could not meet with the Records of this Councell or else hee did purposely omit it which is not likely how much more easy then was it for him to misse this of Lateran which was held about 300. yeares before Besides it is manifest that neither the world at that time nor hee himselfe did belieue that hee had set forth all the Councells as appeares by the king of France his Priuiledge at the beginning of his worke and his owne words at the end of his Epistle before the second volume The words of the kings Priuiledge are these Coneilia quae in Ecclesia à temporibus Apostolorum vsque ad concessum Basiliensem celebrata potuerunt coaceruart by which it appeares that as they were all that they could then get so they were not absolutely and certainly all that were The words of Merlin himselfe are these Nam si authentica integra solida à mēdis expertia fuerint exēplaria vndehaec fideliter excerpta sunt apprime castigata sunt pura vera sincera quae profero suorū Archetyporū quidem germanam conditionem prae se ferentia quae si grato animo tuleris propediem conside ampliora nostris te sudoribus assecuturum by which it likewise appeares that hee did belieue that there were diuers others which hee had not set downe Now for you to inferre that because hee could not meet with this Councell of Lateran therefore there was none such is a very vniust consequence and is as strong against the eight other aboue named as against this Another ground of your shrewd suspition is because Cochlaeus first put it forth and because hee put it forth but lately soe that you obiect both against the person and against the time For the person of Cochlaeus you say hee was not a man so well to bee trusted and to make that probable you say that hee feigned many things in writing Luthers life Against the time of Cochlaeus his edition you obiect because it was lately set forth to wit in the yeare 1538. three yeares after Merlin set forth his edition of the Councells I will first consider the truth of what you say and then the force therof Concerning Cochlaeus his edition of this or any other Councell I can find nothing but that Bellarmine in his controuersies reckons him amongst such as haue writ of the Councells yet hee doth not reckon it amongst the catalogue of his workes in his booke de Script Eccles nor can I find it heere in Paris Yet taking what you say in this for granted I doe not find that hee was a man lesse to be trusted than Merlin or any other for Bell calleth him Vir doctissimus fidei Catholicae propugnator eximius and therfore you who traduce a man without any proofe are much lesse to be trusted than he yea than any man I know for your many falsifications proued both in this and your other writings As for your saying that hee faigned many things in writing Luthers life that is but a new slander which as you doe not offer to proue so it is impossible you should for how can you know the heart of another mā from whence his faigning must proceed Hee may indeed write that which is false but that hee did so by his owne fiction and not by others misinformation you cannot be assured vnlesse hee himselfe had confessed it which you doe not proue that hee hath Nor doe you proue so much as that hee hath written any thing false of Luther You also suspect Cochlaeus his edition of the Councells in regard of the time because hee set it forth lately And what I pray is lately you say the yeare 1538. which is a hundred and eight yeares agoe Indeed in comparison of the Apostles times it is but lately but in comparison of the inuention of printing which was but about two hundred yeares agoe and according to the ordinary account of schollers in editions of bookes I belieue none will account a booke set forth a hundred and eight yeares agoe a thing lately set forth Much lesse haue you reason to accoūt it so seing you doe not account Merlins so which yet as you say was set out but three yeares before It is a paradox to say Merlin an antient writer in the yeare 1535. Cochlaeus a late writer in the yeare 1538. Can three yeares odds in a hundred and eleuen make one to be called late and therfore to be as you say suspected and not the other Surely if this your argument of latenesse be good against one it is so against both wherby you may according to your prudence suspect all the Councells set forth by Merlin But I will giue your suspition yet more scope for Merlin published the Councells in the yeare 1524. as appeares by the last words of the whole worke so that Cochlaeus his edition was full fourteene yeares after Merlins according to your computation of Cochlaeus And now to turne the poynt of your argument vpon your selfe this laternesse of Cochlaeus is so farre frō being a ground of suspitiō that it is by iust so much a stronger confirmation of the truth and exactnesse of his worke It was but by accident that the Councells were printed at any