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A16691 The rasing of the foundations of Brovvnisme Wherein, against all the writings of the principall masters of that sect, those chiefe conclusions in the next page, are, (amongst sundry other matters, worthie the readers knowledge) purposely handled, and soundely prooued. Also their contrarie arguments and obiections deliberately examined, and clearly refelled by the word of God. Bredwell, Stephen. 1588 (1588) STC 3599; ESTC S106388 120,820 166

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mercie if so be the Lord will yet heare vs for this and remoue our iniquities from before his presence and so the plagues which he hath deuised against vs for the same For our many and strange sinnes doe procure many and strange iudgements whereof this is not the least to breake in amongst vs. Yea the Lord for his great mercy grant our Magistrates sincere hearts still to purge the Church of all offences our ministers skilfull boldnesse to doe the message of God as becommeth them euerie priuate man humilitie to the diligent attendance of the worde and the whole body of this Church a ioyfull growth and going forwarde to the fulnesse of Christ that so all enemies mouthes may bee stopped and the mightie name of Iehouah be magnified ouer all Amen Come Lord Iesu come quickely Faults in the print Pag. 4. line 7 for rites reade remembrance pag. 22. li. 31 read importunitie pag. 36 li. 18. one sense pag. 37 li. 16 such lowde li. 20. force of it pag 51. li. 14. dastardlike pag. 63. li. 6. are to shewe pag. 66. li. 10. no vse pag. 114. li. 31. wrester pag. 115. li. 13. thought and sickenesse The doubts and obiections of a certaine disciple of Robert Brownes vvherein being vrged to come to Church the said partie desired first to be resolued ACcording to Christian dutie I require you in Gods behalfe that you will resolue mee of these doubts following by good euident proofe and warrant out of the worde as it is your duetie to doe For where as in doubtes that may arise concerning any thing in the booke of common prayer the preface annexed to the same booke by permission of her Maiestie not onely giueth all men free libertie but willeth them to demaund the resolution of such doubts of the Bishop of the Dioces or of the pastor of the parish I therefore for the quieting of my conscience doe desire to be resolued for he that doth any thing in religion with doubt of conscience is condemned because hee doeth it not of faith for whatsoeuer is not of faith is sinne and the reward of sinne is death Set downe in writing your proofes by euident Scriptures out of Gods word that I may examine them by other Scriptures and vse no sophisticall reasons nor vaine philosophie for I am forewarned by the holy Ghost that we be not deceyued by such Among the rest I will at this time deale with you but with two things the one is the want of gouernement and discipline according to the rule of Gods worde And the other is the abuse and pollution of the Sacrament of the Lords Supper for want of discipline according to Gods word Let vs make tryall of the true gouernement and discipline of the Church of God according to Christs commandement to put it in vse First to tel my neighbour his fault charitably between him and mee alone and so forth by admonitions if hee bee obstinate then by excommunication by the consent of the Church and all to call him to repentance and amendment of life and we see that neither you nor wee can put this in vse in your Church assembly as God hath commanded But on the contrary you must haue sworne men after the institution of the Papists First to go tel the Bishop or some of his hirelings or Courtkeepers they without admonishion will alone excommunicate and for money will resolue by the cannon law of the Papists before we see repentance and amendment of life Thus I see the commandement of God reiected and broken through their traditions which is sinne And also for the Lords Sacrament of the Supper trial should bee made by the gouernement of the Church of a sanctified people so to be a cōmunion of Saints so worthy receiuers by tryall of their faith and repentance and by the rule of Gods worde the other refused for their wicked life vntill they repent and amend their liues But in your assemblies or Church from 16. or 18. yeeres old or vpward all are compelled by lawe to come though he be a couetous person a proud person a drunkard a defrauder of right or oppressor or blasphemer which in contempt of God in his life and manners maketh but a tush or a light matter of sinne and of Gods iudgement for sinne of which sort are the greatest number in your parish besides railers and liars and such like And nowe I demaund whether Christians are to ioyne and partake as one body with them in the Sacrament being vnreformed yea or no. Seeing we are forbidden to eate with such or to haue felowshippe with them by the commaundement of the holy Ghost vnlesse it bee in worldly affaires For proofe Reade these Scriptures 1. Cor. 59 10 11 12 13.2 Thes 3.14.6.2 Tim 3.1 2 3 4 5. Rom. 16.17 18. Ephe. 5.7.8.1 Thes 5 21.22 Answere me as I haue sayd by the worde of God only and alone without the iudgement of man for I can not be resolued thereby they are so contrary one to an other ¶ An Answere resolutorie to the doubtes and obiections aforesaid THREE poyntes you put downe vnto me whereunto you require mine answere First is a comparison of the true gouernement of the Church with ours The second is of disorders that fal out at the ministration of the Lords supper The third is your question drawne from the two former poyntes 1 To the first I graunt you that you say thus farre as namely that wee cannot redresse faultes so fully as is to bee wished 2 To the seconde it is vntrue that you say the lawe compelleth all aboue xvi yeres olde without any exception to communicate for the lawe intendeth a worthines as may appeare by prouiding censures for the vnworthy Againe it is vntrue that you charge vs to make a confuse mingling with open offenders without discerning for both wee may and doe debarre those that are notoriously knowne to be in life offensiue and do both enquire and are readie to receiue any iust and probable information against whom-soeuer in our charge that walke inordinately Yea informe you vs duely of those sinners which you say our Parish is so ful of and you shal not find them I trust to disquiet you at the Lordes table If you say we cannot performe this so throughly as by an Eldership then I graunt so much of your second poynt also 3 Herehence you aske whether Christians are to ioyne and partake as one body with them in the Sacrament being vnreformed I answere that in respect of outward ioyning and partaking wee may and ought not to withdrawe our selues for the presence of the wicked My reasons are these first because the presence of the wicked hindreth not the celebratiō of the riter of Christ nor the communicating of his body and blood to the faithfull ones I prooue that thus if the presence of the wicked should hinder the actiō we must grant that their presence doth it either in respect of it selfe simply
the Bi. authority shall still be holden in no better case then his books haue left it Againe he hath these cleere full words both for himselfe and his followers None of you all can shew any fault false doctrine or wickednes in vs. By this time therefore I beleeue the reader seeth that I haue left this wauering weathercock as naked of all defence to couer his shame euen as is my naile according to the prouerb But now let vs looke further also into his subscrip He confesseth that secondly he subscribed that where the word of God is duly preached and the sacraments accordingly ministred there is the Church of God But he dissembleth keepeth from the reader another fourme of words for that article which was offered him thus 3. Do you acknowledge the Church of England to be the church of Christ or the church of God and wil you promise to cōmunicate with the same in praiers sacramēts hearing of the word and wil you frequent our Churches according to law or no to this he subscribed affirmatiuely Heere againe let the craftie foxe turne him which way he wil and he is taken For howsoeuer he would maintaine quarelling vpō the first forme of words of Preaching the word duly ministring the sacramēts accordingly yet whē as he bound himself to frequent our Churches according to lawe he hath at one gripe choaked all his former writings Let the congregation of Toolyes Church in Southwarke testify whether for almost this two yeares space that he hath bin Schoolemaister there dwelt amongst thē he haue at any time cōmunicated with them in the Sacra and whether vpon their late vrging of him thereunto he hath not to defeate them remoued his dwelling into another parish left a troublesome stinke behind him in their Church Yet some perhaps will obiect that he doth sometimes cōmunicate with our assemblies in the word Heare the word sometimes I confesse but communicate with vs therein I deny that he doth How doth he heare as a censor to iudge not as a brother to learne as the Spider goeth likewise to the flower but not to gather hony as the Bee and thus the Deuill also may be said to cōmunicate in the word with vs. I confesse I speake vehemētly but I protest the loue of God constraineth me for before his subscrip Brown being about Stamford was earnestly intreated of M. Far. M. Har. Londoners that forasmuch as he had graunted thē it was not vnlawful to heare the Word in our assemblies that he would by some writing perswade his followers at London thereunto seeing they did at that time vtterly cōdemne hearing with vs. They obteined his letters which as they testify perswaded indeed to hearing in our assemblies not as children addressing thēselues to the sincere milke of the word to grow therby nor as mē plowing vp the furrowes of their harts to receiue the seed of the holy word to a perfect rooting in thē but in stead of these other cōditiōs of their hearing were put down as trying looking into iudging of the doctrine behauiour of the preachers and that so they might come as by occasion in the way of protestation for such respects Also he gaue them a special exceptiō of preachers which ouerthrew the whole matter for when they were to auoid all that opposed themselues to their course what a doubtfulnes must he needs bring vpō thē to heare any sith as they haue wickedly condemned our assemblies for no Churches of God so we cannot choose but hate and pursue them as enemies of all true peace sacred vnity saying with the Prophet Dauid Do not I hate them O Lord that hate thee and do not I earnestly contend with those that rise vp against thee c. Now also since his subscription in his Libell against me he putteth downe his distinction of hearing in these words VVhile they raile resist the truth for so he taketh his way doctrine only to be we may heare them as enemies but ioyne with thē as brethren we dare not And now I suppose you see how he heareth our Sermons and will graunt vnto me that this is not to communicate in the word with vs although he had giuen his hād promise therunto But alas who would iudge otherwise of this matter if he haue but a little looked into Browns bookes which he stoutly iustifieth to be without false doctrine or fault Euery where in thē hath he disclaimed both our praiers preaching Sacraments as none of the Lords and therfore how shall he be taken what shew so euer he maketh to cōmunicate with vs in any of them two or three places of his infinite number wil I shortly set down and so leaue this point also to the readers further consideration But indeed saith he is the Lords message a blind reading of seruice and though they preach yet is that the Lords gold which they bring when they take and leaue the flocke as the wicked bishops appoint them and neither can nor wil plant or refourme the church haue I sent them saith the Lord or cōmanded them whē they cause my people to erre by their lyes their slatteries saying ye are his people church though ye be polluted abhominable haue these dumme dogs tollerating preachers my letters seales I neuer gaue them saith the Lord they are stollen counterfaite yea they haue the seales and licenses of their wicked bishops and if they haue my message why hold they their peace at the wicked B. discharging as if they had his message only be it therfore O ye Prelates that ye put Moses seate for Moses doctrine can you preach the Lords word doctrine or minister his sacramēts to preach some truth as wicked mē may do to preach the Lords word of message is not al one for his message cānot be without his gouernmēt Then a little after Ye haue not yet saith he cast off the yoke of Antichrist and receyued all things concerning my kingdome and gouernment Therfore because ye haue not planted builded my church saith the Lord that it may be visible nor purged clensed it frō open abhominations both ye all the works of your hāds with your praiers sacra are vncleane accursed Within fewe lines after this yet forsooth it is made great wickednes not to heare these preachers for they sit in Moses seat and are not blinde guydes Nay they sit in the seate of Antichrist and if they were blinde they shoulde not haue had this sinne c. Againe within fewe lines But yet these wicked preachers rise vp against this and cry out that they haue the chiefe they haue the worde and the Sacraments and as for the gouernement and discipline it is but an accessary and hangby needefull in deede but yet they may be without it and be the Church of God notwithstanding But for this