tyme to tyme while we live here on earth If then this saying of the Lords prayer as a prayer be a false way of worshipping God it was excluded by their calling and fellowship in the Gospell howsoever they fell into the vse of it If it be not a false way then were it but our errour so to think which we were also to corrrect the description notwithstanding still should stand good Now what our judgement is concerning the right vse of that forme of prayer together with our reasons out of the Scripture thereabout we haue often shewed and published heretofore in divers treatises which till they be answered and refuted I shall not need here to repeat them or to insist any further vpon that matter Onely thus much now If the vsing of the Lords prayer as a prayer be a part of the worship of God appointed by Christ then did the Apostles in the planting of the Primitive Churches teach them so to vse it For they were inioyned by Christ to teach whatsoever he commaunded them and so they did Mat. 28.20 with Act. 2.42 and 4.24 31. and 20.27 1 Cor. 11.23 But that they taught to vse it thus none can shew eyther in their Acts or in their Epistles And Tertullian saith if they regard his testimony Scriptura negat quod non notat The Scripture denyeth that which it noteth not This man therefore and such as do so hold that the Lords prayer is to be vsed as a prayer are bound to shew by the Scriptures that the Apostles did teach the first Churches thus to vse it vnles they would with the Papists argue the Scripture of imperfection or the Apostles of vnfaithfulnes 3. The distinction of faulty and false is here also to be observed True Churches may be faulty in sundry things as those of Asia Corinth c. and yet not straightway therefore be false Churches True Prophets may be faulty in divers things as Ieremiah Ionah c. and yet they be no false Prophets True worshippers of God may be faulty in their worship many wayes as may be seen in Corinth Colosse c. and yet not therefore be false worshippers By which examples also may appeare both what difference is between false and faulty and how needfull it is alwayes in these cases to be duly regarded 4. His proof that the Lords prayer was vsed as a Prayer from the Apostles age is out of Tertullian whose words be these Quoniam Dominus prospector humanarum necessitatuÌ„ seorsum post traditam orandi disciplinam Petite inquit accipietis sunt quae petantur pro circumstantia cuiusque praemissa legitima ordinaria oratione quasi fundamento accidentium ius est desideriorum ius est superstruendi extriusecus petitiones Cum memoria tamen praeceptorum ne quantum a praeceptis tantum ab auribus Dei longè simus Because the Lord that seeth mans necessities did apart after the doctrine of prayer delivered say Ask ye shall receive and there be things to be asked according to the circumstance of every one the lawfull and ordinary prayer being premised as a foundation we may for the desires that fall out we may from without it build therevpon our petitions yet with remeÌ„brance of the things coÌ„maunded least we be as far froÌ„ the eares of the Lord as from his commaundements Towching this testimony if it were a thing to be stood vpon in this case many things might be excepted 1. Tertullian lived about 200 yeares after the Apostles dayes 2. Many things were held lawfull ordinarily vsed in his tyme which were not at all in the Apostles dayes As prayer with cloakes put off and hands washed signing with the crosse and annoynting with oyle after Baptisme Godfathers and Godmothers mixing of water with wine in the Lords supper oblations for the dead Lenten fast holy water c. 3. He also followed was infected with divers errors which 〈…〉 judgement even in his owne tyme reproved and rejected As the Iewish errour of the Chiliastes that the godly shall haue a pleasant life on earth a thousand yeares before the end of the world Also that the Angels fell for lust of women That Noah Abraham and others of those tymes were righteous by the righteousnes of the Law of nature Whither also may be referred his errors about Freewill Satisfaction for sinnes superstitious Fasts heresies of Montanus c. Not to speak how from his exposition of the Lords Prayer even in this book here alledged the Papists would gather proof for their heresie of Transubstantiation and the Lutherans of Consubstantiation Againe he disallowed sundry things which were approued theÌ„ by others according to the truth As the Baptisme of children second mariages fleing in tyme of persecution c. 4. But if they think there be such weight in TertulliaÌ„s testimony why do they theÌ„ at their preaching vse the Lords prayer after their owne prayers when as Tertullian saith it vvas first premised as a foundation vvherevpon petitions from out of it might be built Which admitting the vse of it yet sheweth a quite different vsing of it then from that which now is had And let it here be noted by the way that Tertullian doth often in that book call it a forme doctrine of prayer and sheweth that Christ hath not tyed vs to the vse of those words but thereon to build our petitions as vpon a foundation according to the need occasion of euery one following his precepts Why also do they not hearâ—en to Tertullian when in the same book he saith Such things are iustly to be charged with vanity as are done without authority of any precept eyther of the Lord or of the Apostles And when other where he saith The Apostles did faithfully deliver to the nations the discipline they received of Christ And that no continuance of times or supportation of persons can preiudice the truth If they wil belieue TertulliaÌ„ their book of coÌ„mon prayer their Prelacy Priesthood crosse surplice and the like reteyned among them may justly be charged with vanity as being never appoynted by the Lord or his Apostles Neither can al their gloses perswade that ever they came from Christ seing the Apostles did not deliver them to the nations as appeareth by their writings Nor is it material whatsoever continuance of tymes they pretend or supportation of persons they may have None can preiudice the truth as Tertullian sayth And for the poynt in hand except they can shew that the Apostles did teach to vse the Lords prayer as a prayer it is neither the continuance of tymes nor the supportation of any persons be they Old writers or Churches that can be admitted for a sufficient warrant even by Tertullians owne testimonie For the Churches that now are we also refer it to our dealing with them In our writings wee haue often signified our esteeming of them for true Churches and in our walking towards
written in particular that they said Our father which art in heaven c. there were some proportion in his maner of reason which now is not Besides the Apostles and Evangelists themselves recording the institution and vse of the Lords supper observe not the same words alike yet all of them agree in the same matter and substance Mat. 26.26.27.28 Mark 14.22.23.24 Luk. 22.19.20 1 Cor. 11.24.25 And why should we not think likewise of their administration of Baptismâ— that it was according to thâ— coÌ„maundement of Christ though the same particular words be not rehearsed Or how can any make question of it when it is recorded that they baptised not in their owne name but in the Name of the Lord Act. 2 38.41 10.48 Rom. 6 3. 1 Cor. 1.13.15 Gal. 3.27 with Mat. 28.19 And so by their example have taught vs how to vnderstand and vsâ— these things aright Exception 3. 3. It is the Anabaptists reasoning against childrens baptisme asking for an example when otherwise there is sufficient warrant so to do yet are their Pretences as good or better then Mr Iohnsons in refusing obedience to our Lords commaundement for want of an example Answer A childish collection froÌ„ the Anabaptists errour about childrenâ— baptisme How often shall we speak it that other sufficient warrant from the Scriptures is as good as a thousand examples And why will he needs shew himself to be like the Anabaptists who would bring in a worship of God for which there cannot be shewed sufficient warrant eyther by precept or by example or sound collection from the Scriptures and so by consequence in tyme deprive the Church of that true worship of God which we are taught both by commaundement and by example and by vnanswerable reasons drawen out of the word of God Wherein the very experience of former tymes so extreemly corrupted in this exercise of prayer might and ought to teach vs to be more carefull For administring the seale of Gods covenant and sacrament of iâ—itiation consequently of Baptisme vnto children being the seed of the faithfull we have both precept example and vndeniable reasons out of the word of God which I will not here stand to relate If our reasons towching the vse of the forme of Prayer spoken of be so weak as he pretendeth why did he not vndertake to answer them but chuse rather to insist vpoÌ„ the Pretences which now he hath purposelie published concerning that Argument And why will he never leave begging of that which he should prove that i◠〈◊〉 our Lords commaundement to say over the very words prescribed Mat. 6. â— Luk 11. for our prayer vnto God Exception 4. 4. The Prayers mencioned in the new Testament are such as 〈◊〉 powred forth vpon speciall occasion as Act. 4.24 Ioh. 17. Answer An absurd pretence and such as wherein he is against himself yeelding that the Lords prayer is not to be vsed vpon speciall occasion or els he speaketh nothing to the purpose And if it teach vs not how to pray vpoÌ„ speciall occasion how is it a perfect directioÌ„ Or if it do yet be not in such case to be vsed how plain is it that Christs meaning the Apostles vnderstanding of it was such as not to prescribe it for our prayer but for our instruction and direction therein Againe Christ saith When ye pray say Our father c. therefore also vpon speciall occasion if that were his meaning as he would perswade Not to speak how themselves commonly hold and give out that it is such as is fit to be vsed at all tymes and for all occasions So well they agree together But why doth he cite here Ioh. 17. wherein Christs prayer a little before his death is mentioned Is it to shew that though Christ did not then vse it praying vpon speciall occasion yet at other times he did If this bâ— his intendement who will believe him that Christ who had no sinn could aske forgivenes of sinne as in that forme of prayer is prescribed If this be not his meaning to what purpose is that Scripture alledged vnles it be to reason against himself to shew still his owne foolishnes Exception 5. 5 Let them shew me an example where ever the Apostles prayed before their Sermons if they can Answer 1. Have they not read what is written of the Apostles Act. 6.4 how they said to the brethren at Ierusalem Look ye out men whom we may appoint to this busines of the Deacons office And we will give our selves continually to prayer and to the ministration of the word Nor how the Apostle Paul gave direction concerning publick prayer when he wrote to the Churches and to Timothee about publik doctrine whether it were in propheticall or ministeriall vse of the word of God 1 Cor. 11.4 and 14. chap. 1 Tim. 1. and 2. chap. Or when Paul taught Timothee that the food of the body is to be sanctified vnto vs by prayer should he not think likewise of the food of the soule 2. And what though the particular circuÌ„stance of time before or after be not set down Or that the Apostles having to deale with severall sorts of persons occasions did diversly cary themselves according therevnto 3. Or doth it not ly vpon the Ministers in publik to be aswell the mouth of the Church vnto God in prayer as to be the mouth of God to the Church in doctrine Or should we think that the Apostles did not carefully performe the whole worke of the Ministery committed vnto them 4. Finally let these men shew vs an example in the Apostles or Primitive Churches where ever they said their prayers over by tote or vsed a book of Common prayer among them or read any prayers at all for their prayer to God or had Archbishops Lordbishops Archdeacons Priests Parsons Vicars c. eyther for vse of prayer or for any other service Ministery or government of the Churches of Christ. Finis Gen. 25.33.34 Heb. 12.16 Whites Discov pag. 4. Ignorance * Mr Sedg to Mr Pow. Falsehood Mr â—â— Violence Whites Discov pag. 20. Whites Discov pag. 6. Pro. 26.26 Prov. 18.17 Pro. 26.5 Prov. 26.4 Prov. 18.2 Micah 7.8.9.10 (a) Wh. Discovery pag. 5· * Act. 24.5 28.22 Mat. 18.15 17.18.22 Luke 17.4 1 Cor. 5.1.4.5.11.12.13 Esa. 16.4 Psal. 103.6 Psal. 9.18 * Besides the Ministery of the vvord * Since altered as himself knoweth b And this also with consent of the Church then signified c Ansvv. to Mr A. H. pag. 62. * To I.L. in his ovvn hearing d Ansvv. to Mr H. Ia. p. 17 4. * Tremell and Iun. on Exod. 2.23 1 Cor. 1â— Pro. 12.13 * Lib. de Monogam Tertul. lib. de Orat. * Tertull. Lib. de orat a Lib. de praescript aduersus haeret b Lib. de virgin veland Confess with Mr Iun. letters pag. 54. * pag 23. Mr R. Ia. * Whites disco p. 7. in the margent A.P. At Northampton ‡ Whites discov pag 26. Contra Marcion lib. 4. c. 5. Lib. de Orat ‡ Yet resting with peace in their difference of iudgment therabout * 1 Cor. 6.16 * Mat. 19. †1 Cor. 6.9.11 ‡ Of this I think my self haue had speach with this Th. White heretofore howsoever now he write as if he had never heard it of any of vs. A true descript of a visible Church * Num. 12.3 Ps. 106.33 Deut. 5.32 1 Tim. 5.21 Mat. 10.37 †The Prelate of Lond. c. Gen. 29. 30. 31. 34. Gen. 34. 35. 37. 38. chap. Epist. to he Corinhians 2 Cor. 11.13.14.15 Answ. to Mr H. I. p. 14. c. Pro. 11 9 Confess with Mr Iun. letters pag. 54. And that we might would if he did thus W. Simson Apologie Discovery RefutatioÌ„ Questions Answer to Mr H. c. 1 Cor. 10.18 Act. 15. Rom. 14. Phil. 3.16 A Discourse of certaine troubles excom c. Confess with Mr Iun. letters Pag. 54. Nehem. 6.8 Prov. 24.28 ‡ In these countreyes being from the Church vpon occasion †But afterward I did speak more to him here about as he may remeÌ„ber ‡ Smyrnâ— Philadelphia c. †Corinth Galat. Pergamuâ— c. And these were in deed the causes that made vs think more and otherwise of this matter theÌ„ we had done Which we also shewed in the Church ‡ 2 Tim. 1.5 and 3.14.15 and 1 Tim. 4.6.12 with Act. 16. 17. 18. 19. 20. chap. †Ephe. 4.11 Rom. 12.7 Aâ—t 5.29 Prov. 26.2 Psal. 109.17.18 Numb 16. Gen. 9.29.27 †Whites Discov p. 24. Prov. 11.21 Eccles. 10.12.13 * Aswell those that have fallen as the rest * Mat. 6.9 ‡ Apologie Discovery Questions Answ to Mr H. c. See also Iob 22.17 Esa. 44.17 Ier. 2.27 Hab. 2.19 1 Cor. 11.20 c. Gen. 5. 2 Tim. 4.4.5
accounted true visible Churches of Christ. And hitherto of his false blasphâ—mous doctrines objected against vs in his letter Which in his Libell he saith I promised to ansvver performed it not Yet in the letter it self he writeth that I said I had spoken vnto him both privately publickly now would not further haue to do vvith him And concerning his letter my answer was to this effect as I remember sent him by I.L. one of his own company besides my speach vnto himself That the contents of his letter vvere partly private partly publick that for the private I required proof and for the publick I vvould not deale privaely Wishing also the said I.L. to deale with him for some reports ascribed to him in the letter concerning me which he denyed and to end it between themselves who were of one company together And as I should heare thereof so I should consider what to do for the rest This let him aske of I.L. his own companion and let himself now look vnto it who it is that falsifyeth For not ansvvering his letter by vvriting I had good reason as may appeare by that which before is alledged And Wisdome teacheth there be persons who are not to be answered according to their foolishnes and times also when to speak and when to be silent Pro. 26.4 Eccles. 3.7 vvith 2 King 18.36 The dumbe Ministers spoken of in the place here cited by him he hath now consorted himself withall being returned to his old vomit and become as dumbe as any of them for defending the truth against the aduersaries thereof yet opening his mouth above all his fellowes in blaspheming the truth and witnesses of it Wherein the case of the worst dumbe dog in England is ten thousand fold better then his And happy it had ben for him if his toung had cleaved to the roof of his mouth and his hand never vsed pen more then theirs whereas now his sin is vnspeakably greater his estate infinitely more miserable But leaving him to the iudgmeÌ„t of God I will proceed to the other particulars of his book desiring the Reader for all his pretence of due proof of his charges to remember that saying of Salomon He that is first in his ovvn cause is iust then cometh his neighbour and maketh inquirâ— of him Prov. 18.17 Of the first head of Th White his Treatise THat which followeth in his Treatise himself reduceth to fower heads In which order I will also handle them The first is that he saith vve haue betrayed our ovvn cause in vvriting And to prove it he alledgeth that I erre in the description of a true visible Church and thereby overthrovv the mayn drift of my vvritings I answer 1. His reason followes not For may not I or any other of vs erre in some thing yet our generall cause not be betrayed Agayne did not Nathan the Prophet erre about the building of the Temple and Peter the Apostle about the Gentiles calling and comunion Could now an Edomite or Pharisee have iustly gathered that they had therefore betrayed the cause of Israel or of the Christians witnessed by them against the adversaries To come nearer to our owne times it is well knowen that Mr. Calvine Luther Beza Fulk Powell Sutcliff c. writing against the Papists Anabaptists and the like haue in sundrie things erred even concerning the very pointes of the difference between them Shall vve say therefore that they have betrayed the cause handled betvveen them and their aduersaries and overthrovven the mayne drift of their ovvn vvritings Not to speak of the Martyrs put to death by the Papists how both many of them and in many things have erred even concerning the causes controverted in their tymes Should we therefore conclude that they betrayed their own cause Or that they did not witnesse the truth notwithstanding faithfully even vnto death 2. Our cause towching the Church of England is that the estate thereof is such in their Prelacy Priesthood worship confusion c. as it is not lawfull by the word of God for any to ioyne or continue with them in such estate And moreover that it is the duty of all Christians to receive and keep the faith and ordinances of Christ vvherein the Primitive Churches vvere planted by the Apostles To discusse and make these things more playne I reduced our whole cause to seaven questions and so propounded them viz 1. Whether the Lord Iesus Christ have by his last testament given vnto and set in his Church sufficient ordinary Offices with their Callings Workes Maintenance for the administration of his holy things and for the sufficient ordinary instruction guidance and service of his Church to the end of the world or no 2. Whether the Offices of Pastors Teachers Elders Deacons and Helpers be those Offices appointed by Christ in his Testament as aforesaid Or whether the present ecclesiasticall Offices of Archbishops Lordbishops Suffragans Deanes Prebendaries Canons Petticanons Priests Deacons Archdeacons Doctors of divinitie Bachelers of divinity Chapleins or housepriests Commissaries Officialls Proctors Apparitors Parsons Vicars Curates Vagrant or Mercenary preachers Church-wardens Sidemen Clerkes Sextins and the rest now had in the Cathedrall and Parishionall assemblies be those Offices appointed by Christ in his Testament as is aforesaid or no 3. Whether the Calling and entrance into these Ecclesiasticall offices aforesaid their Administration and MaintenaÌ„ce now had and reteyned in England be the manner of calling administration maintenance which Christ hath appointed for the offices of his Church above named or no 4. Whether every true visible Church of Christ be not a company of people called and separated out from the world the false worship and wayes thereof by the word of God ioyned togeather in fellowship of the Gospell by voluntary professioÌ„ of the faith and obedience of Christ And whether the Ecclesiasticall Assemblies of the Land be such or no 5 Whether the Sacraments being seales of righteousnes which is by faith may be administred to any other but to the faithfull and their seed or in any other ministery manner then is appointed by Iesus Christ the Apostle and high Priest of our profession And whether they be not otherwise administred in the Cathedrall parishionall Assemblies of England at this day 6. Whether the Book of Common prayer with the Feasts Fasts Holy dayes stinted prayers and Leiturgy prescribed therein and vsed in these Assemblies be the true worship of God commaunded in his word or the devise and invention of man for Gods worship and service 7. Whether all people and Churches without exceptioÌ„ be not bound in Religion only to receive submit vnto that Ministery worship and order which Christ as Lord and King hath given and appointed to his Church Or whether any may receive or ioyne vnto another devised by man for the service of God And consequently whether they which ioine to the present ecclesiasticall Ministery worship and order of
effect But if he meane that they prayed with like intendement and in like manner as Christ now taught the Apostles and Christians hereafter to do he is deceived For in their prayers they intended and looked at Christ to come they prayed that God would send him according to his promise that he might performe the things spoken concerning him c. But now Christ directed all hereafter to pray in his Name as being come and exhibited according to the promises that went before concerning him Ioh. 14.13.14 16.23.24 4. The purpose of Christ in giving this forme of Prayer was not onely to teach to pray to this effect but to give direction also concerning all other things that are needfull to be knowen and observed in the right vse of prayer As in other books already published we have shewed in divers particulars Objection 3. Whatsoever Scripture hath in every respect the forme of prayer that is â—ot alone matter of Doctrine but hath bene vsed also as Prayer But this Scripture Math. 6.9 hath in every respect the forme of prayer as Our Father give vs leade vs and amen annexed in the end ergo And in deed how can they tell which were prayers and which not if not by their forme of Petition whereby they are distinguished from Doctrines and rules proposed in an other forme as Mat. 7.7 21.22 1 Ioh. 5.14 Answer 1. The Proposition or first part of the reason needeth proof if he speak of the vse of the very words as they are set downe But if he speak onely of praying for such things to such end and in such maner as is recorded then we graunt it and he speaketh nothing against vs but fighteth with his owne shadow 2. For some instances herein let these Scriptures be considered Ier. 31.7 Hos. 14.3.4 Ioel. 2.17 which haue in every respect the forme of prayer and yet were given to be directions of the matter and maner of the prayers which then they should make and not to prescribe theÌ„ the very words which they should vse As likewise in this particular of Mat. 6.9 13. compared with Luk. 11.2.3 4. 3. For the Assumption or second part of the reason that it is propounded in forme of prayer see the answer before pag. 31. And let them now at length tell vs if it were so to be vsed as they say whether we should follow Mathew or Luke therein and whether we should at the end thereof vse the conclusion and say Amen or not seing Mathew hath it so and Luke not 4. The very propounding of it in forme of Petition conteyneth in it great and needfull Doctrine for the right vse of Prayer Of which also see before pag 31. 5 The Scriptures and rules of Prayer here mentioned by himself Mat. 7.7 and 21.22 1 Ioh. 5.14 shew that neither Christ intended nor the Apostles vnderstood it so that those very words as they are set downe should be our prayer vnto God For which observe these clauses Aske seek knock As a sonne asketh of hâ—â— father bread or fish c. Mat. 7.7 11. Whatsoever ye aske c. Mat. 21.22 If we aske any thing according to his will c. 1 Ioh. 5.14 Thincketh he when Christ commended vnto vs the needfull carefull and fervent vse of prayer saying Aske seek knock c. that his meaning was Get by rote and say over Our father which art in heaven c. Or is the saying of these words prayer to God as when a child being hungry commeth to his father and asketh bread or having bread asketh fish or other food according to his need Or why did Christ vse such a generall clause Whatsoever ye aske and Iohn If we aske any thing according to his will c. if they had meant we should for our prayer vse that forme spoken of wherein they knew are conteyned all things that can possibly be asked according to the will of God Or should we therefore vse these words onely for our prayers and no other at all But of this question we have written other where already Which may suffice till we be answered Objection 4. 4. In a duty to be vsed of all the holy Ghost is playne but if those very words are not to be vsed as Prayer no Christian for 1500. yearâ—s more did ever vnderstand our Lords meaning Answer 1 Salomon answereth relating the words of Christ that they are all plaine to him that will vnderstand and streight to them that will find knowleledge Prov. 8.9 2. In the duties â—o be vsed of all about the Sacraments c. the holy Ghost is plaine yet have Christians swarved from our Lords meaning therabout as long since as he speaketh of yea even in the Apostles times they began in divers things to go astray therefrom as any that is acquainted with the Scriptures may perceive 3. If erroneous pleading froÌ„ former times without scripture were proof sufficient how many and great errors might be pleaded for As the Antichristians do for a multitude of their heresies and abhominations which I will not stand here to particulate 4. See also what is answered before when to like purpose he alledged Tertullians testimonie pag. 23. c. Exception 1. But they say that the Apostles never vsed those very words in prayer I answer 1. An expresse commaundement is warrant sufficient without example Answer He taketh for graunted that which he should prove namely that there is an expresse commaundement so to vse it as he pretendeth Of which point we haue spoken before And let the Reader observe how he cannot shew by any Scripture at all that the Apostles vsed those words for their prayer at any time Neyther can he deny but they vnderstood it aright and prayed according to the true meaning thereof Exception 2. 2. There is no example in the whole book of Gen. of the observation of the Sabaoth for 2369. yeares space after the institution of it Gen. 2. Neither to come nearer is there any example of baptising in the name of the Father Sonne and holy Ghost yet is the commaundement of Christ sufficient warrant so to do Compare Math. 28.19 with Act. 10.48 19.5 Answer What a reason is this As if we thought nothing were observed of old whereof there is not mention in the history or as if no difference were to be put in the vnderstanding of the Scriptures but that if one be vnderstood litterally then must all other likewise He might aswell have told vs we read not in the Scriptures that Methuselah did ever eat any meat and yet lived 969 yeares the longest of any that are mentioned in the storie And for the Apostles and others at that time administring Baptisme how plaine is it in the Scriptures cited by himself that they baptised in the Name of the Lord as they were appointed If he could shew but in generall termes that the Apostles at any time when they prayed sayd over the Lords prayer though it be not
is When ye pray say Our Father c. And so the Apostles and Christians in all ages haue sinned when they prayed and said it not Yea and these men themselues do aboue all other transgresse herein who pray many tymes without vsing of it and yet think it to be Christs expresse commaundement which is neyther against reason nor proportion of faith Yet also when they shall haue considered that it conteyneth all things whatsoever from the beginning of the world to the end thereof haue bene or can be asked aright by any it would be knowen with what reason or proportion of faith any particular person or Church can so vse it as they speak without speciall explication and application of the severall heads to them selues and their present occasions Secondly he saith our opinion is contrary to the tenour of the words having the forme of a prayer in all things as Our Father give vs and Amen annexed in the end vvhich shevves that they are petitions not positions or rules vvhich are set dovvn in an other forme Mat. 7.7 21.22 1 Ioh. 5.14 Ansvv. If it be intended by the tenour of the words having the forme of a prayer that it should be so vsed then besides the answers already made I ask VVhether we should vse it as it is set downe by Mathevv or by Luke For Luke doth not onely vary from Mathevv in divers words but also omitteth the whole Conclusion yea and the word Amen which is here alledged for a proof that it is so to be vsed as is aforesaid But in deed other vse may be made then these men do of the propounding it thus by way of petitions rather then of positions or rules as in other places is done Namely that Christ hereby would shew the right maner of praying vnto God that we may with confidence come and speak vnto him in our prayers propoūding our requests holily carefully reverendly without babling according to our severall occasions c. And so meeteth with the manifold errours that in the vse of prayer haue crept into the world as may be seen among the Papists Neutral-Protestants Anabaptists Adamians Euchetians and other hereticks Idolaters superstitious and ignorant people some thinking that we should not our selues come directly to God in prayer but vse the mediation of some Saints or Angels c. others that reading on a book is prayer to God though it be of other mens words prescribed vnto vs others that we should repeat the same things over againe and agayne others that we should vse sighs without words others that we should not pray vnto God at all seing he knoweth what we need and others that we should ever be praying giving no place eyther to other exercises of religion or to any labour of the hands c. All which and the like heresies and abuses of the heavenly and most comfortable vse of prayer Christ hath prevented and condemned by this his direction for prayer propounded after the forme and maner aforesaid 3. Thirdly he saith our opiniō is contrary to the vse of al Christians that we read of as before out of Tertullian and others may be alleadged Answ. Then is it contrary to the vse of the Apostles and Primitive Churches of whom we read in the Scriptures Which if any could shew that alone would end the question whereas the vse testimony of any other persons Churches or ages cannot do it As Tertullian himself sheweth when he saith That is truest which is first that is first which is from the beginning that is from the beginning which is from the Apostles But now admitting his proofs were good that the Lords prayer as it is called were to be vsed as a prayer yet were it then further needfull to be knowen whether it be Christs cōmaundement that we should vse it for our prayer alone by it self or that we should ioyne it with other prayers conceived by our selues withall If he say we should vse it alone his owne testimony out of Tertullian besides their own practise is against him who saith that it being premised as a foundation other petitions may be built there vpō And if he say we should ioyne it with the other prayers conceived by our selues the practise and testimony of the Apostles is against him For which see Mat. 8.25 Act. 1.24.25 and 4.24 30. Phil. 1.3.4.9.10.11 4.6 1 Thess. 5.17.18.19.23 2. The second thing is that he saith we hold it not lawfull for the innocent parties to reteyne the offender as the wife her husband or the husband his wife if eyther partie haue committed adultery no though the innocent party vpon the others repentance forgiving the others sinne be desirous still to live vvith the other party in the mariage covenant as before but haue excommunicated the parties innocent for so doing This in deed we haue held the most of vs heretofore and some of vs are so perswaded still And while we were generally so mynded we also held it our duty accordingly to walk taking the innocent partie that reteyned such offenders though vpon their repentance yet to be defiled and to liue in sinne with them as coupling themselues with an harlot But since vpon further consideration of this question discussing it among our selves when we could not fynde divorce in the Scriptures any where commaunded but permitted onely and that such offenders repenting thereof are not to be reputed in that case of harlots but to be washed from their sinne justifyed in Iesus Christ we have vpon these and other like reasons altered our former judgement and now haue thus observed and agreed thus concerning this matter That where the Magistrates inflict not death vpon such offenders as by the law of God they should it is in the liberty and power of the innocent party eyther for that crime to put away the offender or vpon their repentance to reteyne them But this with these cautions 1. So as themselues were no meanes or cause of the others so transgressing 2. That they be no nourishers of them in the like for tyme to come 3. That this remission and acceptance of the offender by the innocent party be done before sufficient winesses 4. That this also as the mariage at the first be alway in the Lord. And for the Churches the Ministers dutie therein that it is onely to teach and require of them repentance after the example of Christ Ioh. 8.10.11 or els to see them cast out of the Church according to the Apostles doctrine 1 Cor. 5.11.12.13 This is that which now the most of vs do think concerning this question being notwithstanding ready to heare if any can shew vs better frō the word of God which is the ground and rule of the constitution of our Church Touching the case and excommunication of H. C. and E. H. his wife of which he speaketh both here and afterward againe how will he prove the persons spoken of to be repentant
when as the one of them denyed the fact which she had before confessed to two of the brethren the other in the iudgment of the Church shewed himself vnrepentant many wayes which I will not here mention And if he do not shew them to haue repented how hath he proved that for which he alledged them Besides that there were also other causes for which they were excommunicated As for that which he saith divers of vs have accused themselues of adultery that so they might be ridde of their wives this also he should have proved and not onely haue said it For we know that the persons whome he nameth W. H. and T. C. haue said and avouched earnestly that they did it not to that end but being perswaded that they ought not to continue with their wiues having by their adulterie broken the bond of mariage between them Besides if by him or any it could be proved so to be as he saith he knoweth we would not beare with such wickednes but deale with them according to their demerit howsoever without all shame he do thus abuse vs. And here by the way let me a little note this mans crossing of himself and bad dealing against vs still Before in the beginning of his book he imputed vnto vs abounding with adulteries and that above others as if it were a sinne common and borne withall among vs and this also more then among others Yet here now his objectiō against vs about the case of adultery is such as any may see he thinketh we haue ben too severe therein and that aboue others What this our opinion was is shewed before Wherein although we have chaunged our iudgment as is aforesaid yet even this particular sheweth how greatly we haue alway detested that sinne and how contrary this White is to himself that he might by any meanes deale wretchedly against vs. 3. The third thing is that he saith we haue altered many things which we held in our constitution as among other that it was not lawfull for Apostates to beare office He saith many things yet nameth but one Towching which I might answer that although many of vs did in deed so take it yet it was not here so generally received by all as he seemeth to suppose because that as there was divers times occasiō of question about it there were of the brethren that shewed themselues to be diversely mynded but at length the matter being often and much vrged we did thus agree about it That we think it not meet to chuse such into office as haue before tyme declyned frō the truth without good caution first had thereabout As namely 1. That there be consideration had both of the nature of the thing done of the quality of the person of the estate of the Church 2. That the Church have good and due tryall of such being returned afore they chuse them into office 3. That with these cautions the fittest be taken into office whom God giveth in the present estate of the Church And all these things so mynded and observed of vs as if at any time a better way be shewed out of the word of God we be ready to receive it in the Lord. This is that whereof hitherto we have agreed about this matter the particulars whereof there will be occasion to set downe more at large hereafter But now admitting that the whole Church held it not lawfull for such to beare office afterward altered it as here he saith yet was this alteration but of our judgement and practise not of the Churches constitution as I haue shewed before and therefore his collection herevpon that we held false wayes in our constitution by consequent then were no true Churches is both false frivolous 4. The fourth he propoundeth as a question saying of vs What would it profit them to b◠free from false wayes in their constitution ◠their practise be not according to their profession But the question and point here treated on is whether the description aforesaid be true or not and whether we our selues be a true Church according vnto it If we erre in practise is it therefore a false description or we a false Church The Churches of Asia and Achaia erred greatly in their practise were they not therefore true Churches according to the said description But yet where the practise is not according to the profession it makes the sinne the more grievous True and therefore Tho White his sinne is vnspeakably grievous as all they do know who haue seen what great and earnest profession of the truth he hath made heretofore from which now he is grievously fallen But for our selues he asketh further sith their knowledg is but in part aswell as their love are not they aswell as others subiect to erre in constitution aswell as practise If he meane in judgment aswell as practise we graunt it and we haue alwayes professed it howsoever he write against vs as if we were such as professed perfection of knowledg and practise in this life from which errour himself knoweth vs to be as far as we know him to be from trueth and godlynes But if he meane by our constitution the way of God wherein we are set the calling of Christ with the Churches covenant which giveth being vnto the Church then I answer that difference must be put between the way of God it self and our weak walking therein between the calling of Christ together with the covenant of the Church our sinning and transgressing in our owne wayes notwitstanding between the Church considered in Christ the head thereof in whom we are washed from all our sinnes guyded in in the way of truth and preserved to eternall life and between the Church considered in the members thereof as we are in our selves every one sinfull and subject daily to erre both in judgment and practise And this not onely in the members severally but in all of vs ioyntly together If this distinction be not observed who can shew that ever there was or can be true Church vpon the earth or how we can haue true comfort in this life to our selves or esteem and discerne aright between things that differ as we ought And if it be observed any may see that all his exceptions against vs are of no moment It is not our knowledg or practise but our calling covenant in Christ that secludeth in our constitution all false and evill wayes whether as yet seen or not For which cause also I need not here stand vpon his needles and erroneous discourse about that which he calleth a shift though in deed it be a point much to be respected namely that a true Church must be separate from all false wayes which they see For as I haue shewed alreadie we ought if we will consider aright of a Church to look at their calling and covenant in Christ which is from all false wayes whatsoever seen or vnseen to the obedience of
sentence my self if the Church should so appoint By which compared with his writing may appeare how still he keepeth on his woonted course against vs hath himself drawen fourth this vnfolding of his evill dealing and his wives too For the others of whom he speaketh viz Mrs Sl. Goodw. Ch. R. M. they were excommunicated for other causes then he hath noted downe And it is not our maner to cast out any for differeÌ„ce of iudgement in such cases if they be content notwithstanding to walk peaceably with the Church and to cary themselves towards the excommunicates as they should by the word â—f God But if they joyne with them in their evill as some of these more specially did with his wife then are they also for so doing justly subiect to the â—ame censure with them as in this case likewise came to passe That which he speaketh of the Magistrate is false he did not forbid but perswaded vs not to do it Though if he had or should forbid vs any thing which God requireth at our hands we have learned to obey God rather then man As we did then answer him that what we did we would alwayes be ready to approue by the word of God And now by that which hath bene said let the Reader judge whether this fellowes hard forehead verify not the Oratours saying He that 〈◊〉 passeth the bounds of modestie becommeth impâ—dent out of measure Excommunication we vse as the holy ordinaunce of God to recover the parties that have sinned if so it be his will and to keep the Church from the leaven of their wickednes If we did it not we should dishonour God and be accessary to their evill But observing it we vse the remedie which Christ hath given vs for their good and if it work not so in them then is their destruction the more iust vpon their heads and we are cleare Neyther doth the long suffring spirit of meeknes hinder but that due execution of the Lords judgement vpon obstinate sinners be inflicted And being so done neyther will this mans cursing vs for good hurt vs not his blessing of himself others in evill help them Therefore to his many curses denounced against vs I will give no other answer but say with Salomon The curse causeles shall not come but fly away as a birde and returne vpon him that allegation out of the Prophet As he loved cursing so shall it come vnto him and as he loved not blessing so shall it â—e farre from him and as he clothed himself with cursing like a garment so shall it come into his bowels like water like oyle into his bones And for his blessing of himself and others in evill I will referre him to that denuntiation of Moses against every such one as when he heareth the wordes of the curse yet blesseth himself in his heart saying I shall have peace although I walk according to the stubburnes of mine owne heart 〈◊〉 adding drunkennes to thirst The Lord will not be mercifull vnto him but then the wrath of the Lord and his ielousy shall smoke against that man every curse that is written in the book of the Law shall light vpon him and the Lord shall put out his name from vnder heaven and the Lord shall separate him vnto evill out of all the tribes of Israell according vnto all the curseâ— of the covenaunt that 〈◊〉 written in the book of the Law Deut. 29. â—9 20.21 For that which he speakâ—th of our Tents it is to be noted that this man himself desiring heretofore to partake with vs in the Lords supper did in our publick meeting compare our and all true Churches to the Tents of Shem the assemblies of the Church of England whither now he is returned to the Tents of Corah Dathan Abiram What remayneth therefore but that according to the words of his owne mouth and course of his own walking he be left to the Lord the iealous God that judged Corah his coÌ„pany Who also is the God of Shem will performe to the soÌ„nes of Iapheth whoÌ„ he perswadeth to dwell in Shems tents according to his promise made of old to Abraham sonne of Shem Father of the faithfull of all nations saying I will blesse them that blesse thee and curse them that curse thee Gen. 12.3 For that which he annexeth about fatherles children himself knoweth we approve no such dealing And some of the persons to whom they were comitted are departed this life The living belike could not serve his turne but he will digge into the graves of the dead who cannot answer for themselves Or if he meane of any that are alive why gave he not after his maner some knowledg who they be Would he not that the matter should have ben considered and answer made accordingly Or would he that we should speake what we heare concerning a fatherles child who was long since with that woman who is now this Whites wife and ran away from her who knoweth best her self how she vsed her For our selues we mislike all hard and evill vsage of any much more savage and cruell dealing to fatherles children who ought most of all to be pityed and holpen If any such have more specially felt their part of our common troubles and poverty why will he not consider his Lords the Prelates their savage and cruell dealing with vs who have made many poore orphanes and widowes among vs besides many other great calamities brought vpon vs by their meanes Of which to begin to speak were to enter into an Ocean sea so many and great they are and not vnknowen to this White himself howsoever he can like now to sayle in that sea where putting away a good conscience he hath concerning the faith made shipwrack For that which he saith of W.C. the man himself affirmeth that be spake not these words at all which he hath printed of him and that he told this Whites wife before the book was published and spake it synce to his owne face that it is a lye Some words he confesseth he spake which were evill but those also spoken by him about a yeare before he ioyned to the Church as himself testifyeth Yet White obiecteth his speach as the confession of our own members affirming also what he hath printed to be spoken before many witnesses Which if it were yet till we should know it after knowledg dealing with him find him obstinate in such evill how could we but have him still a member among vs But if such speaches yea or publick writings of the members of the Church of England would content men as White will with this content himself how easy were it for his one to to produce a thousand and none of them perverted neyther The conclusion of his Libell is like the rest The censures of Christ in his Church he blasphemously calleth our fond excommunications which before in like manner he
termed our Buls of excoÌ„munications Suerly God that will not hold him guiltles that taketh his Name in vaine will never suffer such prophanation of his Name and ordinance to go in vaine Such deâ—iding and despising of the Lord and his ordinances is fearfull And a fearfull thing it is to fall into the hands of the living God All his Lords the Prelates authority and authorizing of his book to be published as himself alledged here before the Magistrates will not help him before the Lord who is a consuming fier From whom what can he or any so persisting look for els but to be cast out from his presence and to have their portion among the cursed to heare that fearfull sentence Go ye cursed into everlasting fier which is prepared for the Divell and his Angels Mat. 25.41 And thus hath this Esau shewed himself to be one of those prophane of whom he speaketh here hardened in his sinne and prophanenes and of which also he spake in the Preface at the beginning of his book That in him might be seen the truth of that which SalomoÌ„ saith The lippes of a foole devoure himself The beginning of the words of his mouth is foolishnes and the latter end of his mouth is wicked madnes that thus also it might appeare how far he is froÌ„ being of the Israel of God that follow peace and holynes without which no man shall see the Lord. Heb. 12.14 TOwching his postscript about T. C. the man himself saith he is falsely traduced by him as he was likewise accused by some other here to Magistrates for the same thing who could not prove it against him when the matter came to be examined And see here still the bad dealing of this man who publisheth his name in this manner to the world onely vpon an hear-say not knowing whether the thing were true or false and then also when he heard withall that he had greatly bewayled his sinne and had not afterward given him any iust or needfull cause so to do For the casting of him out it was thought meet and good considering his former dealing the present case so to proceed yet not without differeÌ„ce of judgment in some of vs thereabout But he was shortly after received in againe being repentant for his sinne Now here let the Reader observe how this man which blameth others for not forgiving of penitent sinners hath not ceased throughout his book to publish and object the sinnes of such against the whole Church and the parties themselves besides the manifold falsehoods and blasphemies into which also he is â—un But his madnes is become manifest to men and his judgement sleepeth not with God who will remember and reward him according to his workes Nehem. 6.14 2 Tim. 4.14 A note of the particulars spoken of before pag. 62. wherein we differ from the Dutch and French Churches of this city wherabout we have had dealing with such of their Ministers as by the rest of their Eldership were deputed therevnto 1. THat the estate of the Dutch Church of Amst. is such as being one yet it meeteth in three severall places whereby it commeth to passe that the whole Church cannot come together in one the Ministers cannot together with the flock sanctify the Lords day the presence of the members of the Church cannot certainly be knowen and finally no publick action whether excommunication or any other can rightly be performed Which is contrary to these Scriptures 1 Cor. 12.27 11.20 23. Math. 18 17. with 1 Cor. 5 4. Act. 6.2 5. Numb 8.9 Act. 20.28 2. They baptize the seed of them who are no members of any visible Church of whom moreover they haue not care as of meÌ„bers neyther admit their pareÌ„ts to the Lords Supper Gen. 17.7 9 10 11. 1 Cor. 7.14 Exod. 12.48 with 2 Chron. 30.6 c. Numb 9.13 Hos. 2.2.4 with Rev. 17.1 Ezech. 16.59 c. 3. In the publick worship of God they have devised vse an other forme of prayer besides that which Christ our Lord hath prescribed Mat. 6. reading out of a book certaine prayers invented and imposed by man Exod. 20.4.5 and 30.9 with Psal. 141.2 and Rev. 8.3 Lev. 10.1 Esa. 29.13 with Math. 15.9 Rom. 8.26 Eph. 4.8 1 Pet. 2.5 4. That rule and commaundement of Christ 18.15.16.17 they neither obserue nor suffer rightly to be observed among them 5. They worship God in the Idol-temples of Antichrist Exod. 20.4 with Deut. 12.2.3 2 18.11.12 c. 6 The Ministers have their set maintenance after an other maner then Christ hath ordeined 1 Cor. 9.14 And that also such as by which any Ministery at all whether popish or other whatsoever might be mainteyned 7. Their Elders chaunge yearely and do not continew in their office according to the doctrine of the Apostles and practise of the primitive Churches Rom. 12.4.5.6.7.8 1 Cor. 12.11.12 c. Act 20.17.28 1 5.1.2 3.4 See also Numb 8.24 c. 8. They celebrate Mariage in the Church as if it were a part of the Ecclesiasticall administration whereas it is in the nature of it meerly civill Ruth 4. chap. Heb. 13.4 1 Cor. 7.2 9. They vse a new censure of SuspensioÌ„ which Christ hath not appointed Math. 28.20 Gal. 3.15 2 Tim. 3.16.17 10. They observe dayes and tymes consecrating certyan dayes in the yeare to the Nativity Resurrection Ascension of Christ c. Exod. 20. Commaundement 2. 4. Rev. 1.10 1 Cor. 10.1 â— Act. 20.7 Col. 2.16.17 Esa 66.23 Gal. 4.10.11 11. They receive vnrepentant excommunicates to be members of their Church which by this meanes becommeth one body with such as be delivered vnto Sathan 1 Cor. 5.5 1 Tim. 1.20 About this matter we had dealing with them divers tymes heretofore And we desired that knowledg thereof might by themselves be giveÌ„ to the whole body of their Church or that they would take order that it might be done by vs. But they refused both Whereabout we had afterward some further dealing with them In which time divers messages and answers passed between vs. Which we had thought here to have inserted but now think good for the present to forbeare them Wishing rather that they might be buried amoÌ„g themselves by amendement hereafter then that we should be constreyned eyther by themselves or others as we are already too much provoked to publish them to the world for the further manifestation and clearing of our cause and maner of dealing with them The cautions spoken of before pag. 34. 68. concerning the question following Question Whether such as sometimes have fallen from the truth may afterward by the Church be taken into office Answer We take it not to be meet without these and the like cautious viz. FIrst that there be due consideration had both of the nature of the thing and of the quality of the persons and also of the estate of the Church For the nature of the thing 1. Whether it be from the trueth to the