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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
book_n	aaron_n	moses_n	procure_v	29	3	10.8384	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A18441	[A treatise against the Defense of the censure, giuen upon the bookes of W.Charke and Meredith Hanmer, by an unknowne popish traytor in maintenance of the seditious challenge of Edmond Campion ... Hereunto are adjoyned two treatises, written by D.Fulke ... ]	Charke, William, d. 1617, attributed name.; Fulke, William, 1538-1589.	1586 (1586)	STC 5009; ESTC S111939	659,527	941

proofe or authoritie you doe so confidentlie affirme ALLEN And yet I talke not now of taking or deliuering anle man out of Purgatory so much sooner as so many daies release doth import when he is in it alreadie but I meane as I often saie for the simples sake of him that is yet aliue and in the Churches iurisdiction and therefore may haue by the keies of the Church a pardon of his dets either all or part to preuent the paines of Purgatorie or discharge the debt thereof before that terrible daie come when it shal be actuallie required And in this sense vndoubtedly are the great number of yeares daies to be taken which be exceeding necessarie to procure mercie in these euil times wherein we may behold the pitifulwaste of Christian workes euerie where and litle penance to be done no not of the better sort of Christan people As for the other disobedient children that euerie way laugh their mother to scorne whether she vse sextritie of discipline or lenitie in remission they haue no part neither of the Churches blessing nor of the holy workes of Saintes nor of Gods owne peace and pardon Our Lord giue them the grace of repentance that they may haue a tast either of the Churcher discipline or of her mercy and lensty FVLKE You talke and meane that men should make haste while they are aliue to take their pardons whereof perhapes you are a proctor or pettie marchant vnder the Pope not regarding so much what the Popes iurisdiction is ouer poore soules in Purgatorie as how to get monie out of liuing mens purses for pardons and dispensations to mantaine you in your traiterous popery Your complaint of litle penance done is vaine hypocritical seeing you your selfe by mantaining of pardons are occasion that none at all need to be done of them that haue mony to paie for them God open the eies of the simple if it be his will to see your treacherie and either giue you true repentance orels that which your treasons heresies hypocrisie haue long agoe deserued It is prooued as wel by sundry examples of the old law as by Christs one often fact his Apostles that inioyned or deserued punishment may be released by the gouernours of the Church in their pardons THE 9. CHAP. ALLEN Some may here maruel perchance that such power should be giuen to mortall men as to remit such great portion of penance as by iustice ought to be enioyned or such a number of yeares as are appointed for satisfaction correction of former misdeeds thereby to remooue from the partie the heauy hand of god prepared for iudgement who would not wonder much hereat if they considered that the debt of hell paines and eternity of punishment which incomparablie exceedeth manie thousand yeares might by the Priestes office and alwaies is in the due execution of the sacrament of penance fully remooued from the partie penitent And where mercy putteth away deserued damnation there may much lesse force of grace turne awaie the punishment of Purgatorie being not transitorie and equivalent onelie to the penance of a number of yeares prescribed In which case if the Church of God should haue no preheminence now after the incarnation of Christ since which time the waiet of mercie towardes mankinde must needs be much enlarged our state gouernment should be much inferiour to the regiment and to the priesthood of the old law which trulie did in al things but as a shadow and figure resemble the Maiesty of our Churches prcheminence especiallie there where mercy grace were to be shewed which came by Christ Iesus Behold then some sleppe of this most excellent power giuen to our chiefe Priestes in the persons of Moses and Aaron whoe are noted in the booke of Exodus and Numbers meruelouslie to haue procured Gods mercie and sometimes by force of sacrifice praier and singular zeale to hauereleased some great portion of the paines and punishment which God himselfe by his owne mouth and determination had laied vpon the people With what meruelous confidence of his office and pitie of the afflicted sort did one of them crie out vnto god to holde his hand and pardon the people after they had deserued se great punishment for worspiping the golden Idoll of the Calfe in the wildernes Lord saith Moses this people hath committed an horrible sinne and they haue erected golden Gods Forgiue them this sinne Lord or ells if thou wilt not dash me out of thy booke to which thou hast written This gouernour and this priest praied not after a common sort for pardon of the peoples punishment but he claimeth it wish confidence and in a manner requireth it as by his iurisdiction and office Such was the force of praier and priesthood before Christs spirituall souer aignitie was honoured in the worlde otherwise then in a figure And yet god in a manner was at that point with them then that he would pardon punish at their pleasures For when the sinne was exceeding greeuous he maketh as it were meanes to Moses that he should not stay him nor his anger from punishing of the offendors Let me alone Moses saith our Lord suffer me to be angrie FVLKE Men may iustly maruell that you professing methode doe set the Cart before the horse and frame of your building the roofe before the foundation but if they consider that this way you take is of more force to confounde a simple witte then to teach a matter plainlie they maie cease to maruell and acknowledge that the compasse of your cause whereof you speake in the beginning will abide none other order But to the matter and argument of this Chapter it hath bin answered before that in the discipline of the Church the gouernours thereof haue power vpon good consideration and triall of the offenders repentance and not otherwise at their pleasure to release enioyned time of repentance which was enioyned for none other end so much as to bring the party to repentanes and thereof to assure or satisfie the Church But as the discipline of the Church militant serueth for the onelie time of her warfare in this life so the gouernors of the Church haue no authoritie either to inioyne or to release out of the compas of this life And therefore this power of binding loosing vpon earth cannot be extended to anie purgatorie paines or rather pickpurse after this life and consequentlie it can be no shadowe to couer the filthie and blasohemous nundination and chaffering of the Popes pardons for thousands and hundreth thousands of yeares What authority the ministers of the Church haue in remitting sinnes hath beene handled sufficientlie before They are Gods messengers to declare his forgiuenes to them that trulie repent and so they are to release the bande of discipline in open offenders where the fruites of repentance doe appeare Your argument that the priesthood in the new law is of more power to purchase mercie then in the

notwithstanding her maiesties warrant anie daunger to your liues or boast that you offer your selues to perill of life when you demaund a warrant for your safeties without the which you dare not so much as vtter your name that be the challengers And therefore it were a ridiculous sute for a warrant that our ministers shoold commence in your behalfe when they know not what you are nor what warrant you haue from any learned Papists to make such large offers vponwarrant of your safteties seeing it is knowne that the best learned of your side in England haue not only refused the same but some also iudged al disputation to be vnprofitable Your offers I confesse are verie large as that we shal appointe in what kinde and number at what time to what place you shal come either our countrey men onely or strangers to dispute in our vniuersities before the learned onelie that you giue vs leaue to call all the learned protestantes of Europe for our defence you taking onelie our owne countrimen That you giue vs leaue to oppose or defend begin or end or vse anie prerogatiue that maie not impugne the indifferencie of triall But when you aske what we can alleadge why we should not accept this We answere that beside manie causes not here needefull to be rehearsed though before in parte touched we alleadge for this present that we do not beleeue that you are able to performe anie of these liberall offers except we see matter of greater credit then an epistle of an vnknowne papist written to Master Charke a priuate man If you had shewed vs such warrant or commission as wee might probablie haue beene perswaded of the performance of these promises you might more reasonablie haue required what we had to alleadge whie we did not accept them but now there is noe reason in the worlde that we should intreate with our Prince Magistrates vppon these friuolous wordes of an obscure hedge-creeper or boasting bench-whistler for anie thing we knowe I am in the name of all my fellow Catholikes to renew c Once againe I saie to you ministers c. We will giue you leaue c and such like But it is not sufficient that you are liberall at home onelie except you be lauish abroade also for if we had leuer make triall in other Countreies we maie choose what Protestant state we liste and procuring you safetie there you will meete vs. Or if we please to come into anie Catholike Kingdome or Countrie you will procure what securitie soeuer reasonablie we will demaunde and more then that you will beare our expenses also rather then so good a worke should remaine vnattempted or anie other condition that we can denise you will fulfill Then you conclude If we offer you reason then deale somewhat reasonablie with vs againe For all the world will crie shame and beginne to discredite you if you will neither giue nor take vpon so greate oddes as here are offered you I answere you offer vs great wordes but no reason at all because we knowe not what assurance you can make vs to performe your wordes If Master Charke a man well knowne by his name should make the like offer to you by such an other printed epistle or taking your offer should promise you as great warrant as you require at home or abroad and moreouer to beare your expenses rather then you should saile to appeare at anie time or place by him assigned is your simplicitie so great that you would keepe the appointed daie and place of disputation vppon his pure promise without further assurance And yet you can not misse to heare of him his dwelling place at London whereas we know not to whome nor whether to returnethe warrant that it may come to you except per haps youwould haue it proclamed with sound of trum pet sent into all partes of the realme that you maie heareof it It maie be you will alleadge that it is great daunger for you to appeare without warrant of securitie and noe perill for vs to procure you assurance of safetie But all wise men maie see that we should deserue noe lesse punnishment by procuring such a warrant for you vppon so light a grownde if you did not accepte it as you should incur appearing without warrant for anie difference in religion if you be not guilty of fellonie or treason If you ment nothing but peaceable disputation for trial of truth you would not make your challenge in printed libels and seditious pamphlets but rather seeke it at the handes of them that haue authoritie to graunt it by intercession of those forreigne princes with whome you pretend your credit to be so great that you can procure what securitie soeuer reasonablie we can demaund in their dominions But to vse anie such lawful meanes I trowe you will make no haste when you wil not accept that quiet forme of triall by syllogismes in writing which by Doctor Fulke so manie yeares agoe was offered vnto you and yet is free for you to take if it please you and that without sute without daunger and to the best and surest triall of the trueth But if we dare not venture with disputations yet you require vs to graunt you certaine sermons to encounter with vs vpon this matter A verie reasonable request I assure you when you will graunt the like libertie of preaching in Spaine or Italie we will become suters for you to preach in England Or if that also be to daungerous we must procure you but a litle passage for your bookes speciallie Master Charke must obteine licence free passage for this booke vntil it be answered Sir whenwe see what passage you can wil procure for our bookes at lest such as be not answered vntill they be answered in places where they are now restrained we will endeuour that you shall haue the like entertainement with vs. In the meane time take what controuersie you will or thinke you selfe best hable to prooue against vs set downe such arguments as you haue to oppose against our assertion in lawfull and logicall syllogismes and whether you send them written or printed you shall receaue them againe printed with our answeres to them and haue as free passage for your arguments as shall be graunted for our answers If you will replie against our answers in like forme aforesaide you shall haue our 〈◊〉 in like manner set forth with your replie and 〈◊〉 the grace of God you shall not faile of toties quoties vntill you be non plus or which we had rather will he vntill you yeald to the trueth This offer is so reasonable that when the like was made to M. Mettham one of the prisoners at Wisbeach M. Fecknam of his equitie acknowledged that there could no more be required Butas Mettham did then refuse it so I am afraid will you And yet it is more then you will doe for vs to giue licence that our bookes may

discharge your Iesuites of herisie and treason the wordes of scorpions and venemous spiders are no railing termes but apt to expresse their venemous and poisonous practises for they are vsed in scripture to describe the like mischeuous workes as Apocal. 9. Esa. 59. 5. The rest of his speaches haue either the same or the like phrases iustified in the scriptures against corrupters of Religion and enimies of publike peace as we shewe your Iesuites to be for the former and their practises to the confusion of some of them haue beene discouered for the latter With Master Hanmers termes I will not meddle who is to answer for him-selfe when you haue confuted his arguments or els when he shall see it conuenient Doctor Fulke the next man whom you condemne to be of a ruffianlike spirit because he saith shew me Allin if thou canst for thy guttes as though you raile not more of him in your ruffianlike terme then he in speaking of Allens guttes whatsoeuer the cause or affection were hath answered alreadie in his own behalfe in such sort as more shame redowndeth to you that haue gathered together his vehement and sharpe speaches vttered in manie bookes and to those whome you complaine by him to be abused while he giueth a reason of his speaches then all the eloquence you haue wil be able to wipe away in a larger treatise then your defense of the Censure as yet appeareth to be Confut of Topish quarrelles page 20. and so forth in 16. or 17 pages If it were no more but your marginall note Docter Fulkes talent in railing wherein you abuse an holie phrase of scripture like an Italian Atheist to mooue Sardonicall laughter it were much more able to conuince you of a ruffianlike spirit then anie terme that D. Fulke vseth seeing such vnreligious allusions vnto the termes and matters of holie scripture cannot be defended in anie man cause or manner The like you haue of Primitias spiritus and Luthers lying with a Nunne in the Lord all which argue a prophane spirite and a licentious intemperate and almoste blasphemous tongue or penne in anie that vse them or the like When you haue almoste done with Doctor Fulke you take vpon you to shew the like rayling in the Masters as you terme them that you haue done in the schollers and beginning with Iohn Caluin you saie that his ordinarie terme especially against Bishoppes and such like as are his superiours is to call them Nebulones knaues which beside the foull gall whence it proceedeth is vnseemelie For this you neither note nor quote anie one place where he vseth that terme in such sort as either his gall might thereby be espied or the same signfying light persons might not fitlie be applied vnto them vpon whome he bestowed the terme As for your popish Bishoppes are not his superiours but for the most part deserue sharper termes then Nebulones euen such as were fitte for Annas Caiphas Ananias and the rest of that race which were as great prelates as they Hauing nothing more against Caluin you passe ouer to Luther who in his booke against King Henrie the eight of England ministreth vnto you larger matter to triumph against him where in it maie be doubted whether you had greater pleasure in discouering of Lu ther 's intemper at stile then in displaying those odious and long since buried reproches against that noble Prince so great an enimie to your Romish Antichrist which as they were vnseemelie in respect of either of their persons him that did write the Prince against whom he did write so they were afterward misliked of Luther himselfe who in as great humilitie as before he did write in disdaine craued pardon at his handes not for the matter substance of his booke but for his vnreuerent handling of the same against a King of so great nobility of so good expectation the cause that mooued him to such destemper was for that he supposed that the booke was not endited by the King him selfe but by some enimie of his to procure his dishonour as he writeth in the same booke Crederes ab insigni hoste regis hunc librum editum in perpetuam regis ignominiam You would thinke that his booke was set forth by some notable enimie of the Kinges to the perpetuall shame of the King And in his Epistle of submission he declareth that he suspected cardinall Wolsey to be the author thereof which made him the bolder to write as he did against it And in the storie of Sir Thomas Moores life written by his sonne in lawe Master Roper which I haue seene it appeareth that Kinge Henrie tooke great displeasure against Sir Thomas Moore for the edition of that booke by which he receiued more dishonour then by anie thing in all his life Luther therfore writing against him that did abuse the name of the Kinge in defence of an euill cause thought he was not bound to spare him because of the Kinges title but that he might so much the rather be free to inueigh against him But this to saie the trueth might be some part of an excuse though not a sufficient defense of his doing neuerthelesse it followeth not here of that he could not be an elect vessell of God or that he had no part of Gods spirit or that he was herein worsse then anie russian or rakehell as our seuere Censurer saith without either malice or railing spirit I warrant you For Gods elect children they that haue a great part of his spirit do sometimes fal into far greater crimes then this and yet by his grace are brought to repentance as Luther was for this vntemperat stile and thereof made open confession in his epistle of submission againe he erred by immoderat zeale yet in defense of the truth which is not the cause that mooueth ruffians and rakehelles to rage Wherefore it is well with Luther that hath alreadie answered the matter before a more wise and merciful iudge and standeth not at the curtesie of our solemne Censurer But it is more to your purpose that you bring in Luther inueighing against the Caluinistes where he had not by our owne confession a good cause the Caluinistes againe as bitter against him a tast whereof though you refer the matter to another place you wil needes giue vs here by citing of one place in stead of all the rest and that is of the Church of Tygurine against Luther Tygur 〈◊〉 3. contra supermam Lutherij confessionem whole wordes you promise to rehearse out of what edition I cannot tell for the edition of Tigure by Froshere 1545. of Gwalters translation reporteth their wordes somewhat otherwise and therefore I thinke in this place as in diuers other you are but a broaker of other mens ware to put forth that you neuer sawe your selfe but gather out of some other mans notebooke which reported not al thinges either with such diligence or faithfullnes as had beene requisite to be found in