Therefore you see there is no reason why for this cause Luther should either find fault with or feare the Epistle of S. Iames. And thus Augustine hath reconciled these two Apostles Iames and Paul that you may see that we are not broachers of any Noueltie Wherefore saith m DVR Augustine maketh nothing for you but against you WHIT. pag. 50. Augustinâ— affirmâ—th directly that S. Iames speaketh of a vaine and fayned faith which is as much as we here produce him for Augustine Aug. quaesâ— 85 quaeâ—t 76. the iudgements of the two Apostles S. Paul S. Iames are not contrarie each to other when the one saith a man is iustified by faith without workes and the other saith that it is a vaine faith which is without workes because S. Paul speakâ—th of workes which goe before faith Saint Iames of workes which follow faith at S. Paul himselfe sheweth in many places Therefore the Apostle S. Iames would not neither ought to detract any thing from the doctrine of iustification which Luther learned from S. Paul Yea all Papists and Iesuits shall sooner be torne asunder then this iudgement of Luther touching faith alone shall either quaile or be ouerthrowne From Luther you turne the edge of your speech to the whelpes of Luther for so you as an vncleane dogge terme men famous and flourishing with all good qualities But why you should so call them I well conceiue not vnlesse it be for that they neuer cease barking against your Bishops and Monkes and other Church robbers like your selfe But let vs heare what heynous thing those whelpes haue committed They haue on a suddaine put out of the true Canon of the Scripture Tobias Ecclesiasticus the two bookes of the Macchabees and many other bookes Say you of a suddaine Campian Is it true indeed that you are such a stranger in the writings of the auncient Fathers that you know not that long agoe these bookes were raced out of the Canon Looke I pray you into Hierome and out of him call to mind what antiquitie hath done That we may know saith n DVR Hierome saith that the former Churches did not receiue these bookes for Canonicall but denies them not to be Canonicall WHIT. pag. 52. Hicrome affirmeth not only that these bookes were not receiued of the fore-going Churches for Canonical but himself oâ—ten times denies them to be such and plainely cals them Apochâ—ypha bookes which he wâ—uld neuer haue done if the Church then had taken them for Canonicall yea and as Duraeus confesseth they were not so taken vntill â—lmoâ—t 70â— yeâ—res afâ—er Christ Hierome Hieron iâ— Prologo Galiato Whatsoeuer bookes are more then these they are to be accouÌ„ted among the Apochrypha Therefore Wisdome which commonly is called the Wisdome of Salomon and the booke of Iesus the sonne of Syrach and Iudith and Tobias and Pastor are not in the Canon Will you that are but a Frier put these bookes in the Canon which Hierome following the iudgement of the auncient Church and the truth it selfe denieth to be in the Canon marke well his owne words They are not in the Canon You say that we haue dashed them out and why should we not so doe For saith Hierome they are not in the Canon Desire you any further testimonies Epiphanius saith as much as Hierome who after he had recited diuers bookes which you say we haue put out of the Canon he thus writeth as Cornarius renders his words out of the Greeke These bookes verily are profitable and helpefull Epiphan in lib. de mensur Ponder but they are not reckoned in the number of those which are receiued Therefore they are not to be found in Aaron neither in the arke of the Couenant But see out of Hierome more manifest and pregnant things Hieron praefat in lib. Solomon As therfore the Church readeth the bookes of Iudith Tobias and Macchabees but accounteth them not Canonicall Scripture so also these two bookes he meaneth Wisdome and Ecclesiasticus it reades for edification of the common sort not for confirmation of any doctrine of the Church If Campian you be ignorant of these auncient testimonies you are but a young souldier in that kind of fight where you would be thought a well experienced Captaine but if you know them you are too vniust and iniurious vnto vs to obiect to vs I know not what desporation because wee admit not those bookes in the Canon of the Scripture which Antiquitie tels vs directly were neuer admitted neither are to be admitted Caietan in cap 24. Mattb. And verily Cardinall Caietan feares not to auouch that he that writ the booke of the Macchabees in a certeine prophesie of Daniels was a lyer but the holy Ghost was neuer wont to be deceiued in the interpreting of the Scripture Now wheras you imagine that we are conuinced by those Oracles as often as we dispute against the defence of Angels as often as we dispute against freewill as often as we dispute against praying to Saints You must fiâ—st before you can conuince vs proue that an argument will conclude necessarily out of those bookes to confirme the doctrine of the Church which Hierome demeth and you shall neuer be able to proue though you call all the Iesuits to a consultation And seeing you obiect desperation to vs see hoâ— you bewray your owne miserable â—esperation who cannot establish the Articles of your faith by the Canonicall Scriptures but you she to the Apocâ—ypha whose authority hath bin and for euer shall be doubted of in the Church The Lord hath commited his Will and Woâ—d to writing and commended it to his Church Those writings with all diligence and piety we receiue and reuerence we are content with them and we maintaine theiâ— sufficiency let goe then these questionable obscure and Apochrypha bookes and out of these contend with vs about religion But your religion long agoe hath passed beyond the bounds of the sacred Scripture and hath broken forth into many superstitions And hence it is that you doe the thing than which nothing can be more malapert and intolerable that is make of like authoritie with holy Scripture not only the Apochrypha bookes but euery o DVR Pag. 5â— â—â—e do not affâ—me Traditions to be of the same authority with the holy Scriptures WHIT. pag. 59 Though Duraeus heere denieth it yet the Councell of â—rent doth with the like holy affection and reuerence receiue and honor them as it doth the bookes oâ— the old and new Testamâ—nt See Decâ—et 1. Sess 4. vnwritten Tradition whersoeuer you come by them at the second or third hand But what do I telling you of these things who shamefully haue aduentured long since to violate and infâ—inge all the lawes both of God and man Take this from me if you can demonstrate that we haue condemned or reiected any one booke or any p DVR Pag. 64. You haue raced out these words out of S. Iohn Euery spirit
me to vtter in preaching And knowing the necessitie of preaching and feeling the greatnes of the burthen as S. Paul said Who is sufficient for these things 1. Cor. 2.16 I finde all my priuate studies little enough for my publike Ministerie that the more I attaine vnto the more I may communicate to others As the Preacher saith Eccles 12.9 The more wise the Preacher was the more he taught the people knowledge and caused them to heare and searched foorth and prepared many parables I am not of their mindes who think that a man may gather Manna enough vpon the day before the Sabbath to serue his familie or charge vpon the Sabbath it self And though I know mē haue their seuerall gifts some men able to do that in an houre which another cannot doe in three yet I know and acknowledge my owne strength and abilitie to bee such as that I must haue much more time than many others which both hath made me vnwilling and will so make me still to distract my self or intangle my minde with any other thing than with my ordinarie Ministerie I haue often thought of Augustines obseruation that our Sauiour Christ preached much De consens◠Euangelist lib. 1. cap. 7. but wrote nothing and thence haue imputed it a fault to those who haue the roome of Christ which are giuen to write much and preach little specially when their places in the Church requires preaching more than writing I know well that writing is and hath bin very profitable to the Church yet I find a corruption in our times that maketh it lesse profitable because I see men buy bookes more for the Author than the matter and delite more to haue such a booke in their houses than by diligent reading to haue it either in their heads or hearts by which they are neither able to instruct in the truth and informe in their duties such as belong to them neither to defend the truth of God when they come in places where they meet with such as resist the truth as Iannes and Iambres did Moses 2. Tim. 3.8 Atheists and Papists I meane and such like men of corrupt mindes reprobate concerning the faith And so their bookes are a iudgement to condemne them for vaine foolish men according to that of Salomon Prou. 17.16 Wherefore is there a price in the hand of the foole to get wisedome and he hath no heart But beloued let it not be so with you or so no more the times are dangerous there are many deceiuers abroad and many daily deceiued for that they haue had a price and opportunitie all these golden and happie daies of the Gospell to haue got wisedome but haue no hearts but only for wealth honour pleasure and such like And if you haue neglected the opportunitie with them thinke it high time to lay hold of it lest it be too late when the fit occasion is altogether past and labour and pray for hearts to seeke Wisedome while she cries in the streetes and seekes for you lest you seek her when she will not bee found And the rather because when there is no loue of truth 2. Thess 2.11.12 God sends strong delusions that men should beleeue lies That all they might be damned that beleeue not the truth but haue pleasure in vnrighteousnes It is the wisdome of men when they heare that many false coyners are abroad to looke well what siluer or gold they receiue and if they haue not either the scales and weights or the touchstone of the Goldsmith or the skill to vse them to trie that they receiue they will aske and being men that haue much to receiue and their state stands vpon it they will both haue them and learne the skill to vse them Should it not bee so with you shall these be wiser in their generation than the children of light or will you bee wiser for the world than for heauen If you loue heauen I say not as you ought but euen in any sort as you loue the world and haue in any measure the like care for your spirituall estate as you haue for the temporall in these dangerous times get to you the ballance of the Sanctuarie not to haue it in your houses only but in your hearts and memories The exhortation of Chrysostome is not so necessarie for these times Commentar in Coloss 3.16 Prouide for your selues Bibles for most haue them in their hands and houses But that hee saith in another place is fitter for our times Hom. 3. de Laza. When you are at home giue your selues to a continuall reading of the holy Scriptures A thing verely much neglected of most in our times to whom his complaint will well agree Which of our people goe about any thing worthie the name of a Christian Hom. 13. in Joan. who searcheth out the sense of the Scriptures vndoubtedly none but the Chesse-board and dice-play we finde often and euery where but their bookes are seldome in hand For your bookes are seldome in hand but when you goe to Church they lie in your houses couered with dust and as it were spread ouer with spiders webbes as if it seemed you durst not touch them when the Tables are kept cleane with vse and Cards worne blacke with continuall play But beloued these things should not be so if either you regard the commandement of Christ Iob. 5.39 Search the Scriptures which is as absolute and generall as that Commandement Thou shalt not commit adulterie or steale or if you reuerence the counsell of the Apostle which is as much as a commandement Let the word of God dwell plentifully in you in all wisedome Coloss 3.16 As good schollers therefore in the schoole of Christ giue obedience to these things and vse a continuall and constant reading of the word at least euery day some part of it which because it is obscure not in it selfe but by the weaknes of mans vnderstanding as men doe to weake eyes applie some holesome salue not to make the light more perspicuous but the eyes more able so vse the helpe of some other writers by which you may more profitably reade it and enable your selues the better to conceiue of it and to know how to applie to euery occurrence the things which are there set downe in their most excellent and wise order though somewhat hidden and infolded to those who haue not their senses as they ought exercised therein And if any desire some direction for himselfe in studying both the Scriptures and other bookes which may helpe for the vnderstanding of them and their better instruction in the matters of saluation I woul intreate them first to heare the ancient and worthie Father and Elder of the ancient Romish Church when as though not without some blemishes Note that it is neither new nor hereticall nor dangerous for the common people to read the scripture and that by the iudgement of the Church of Rome in
Councell is not only Loâ—hers iudgement but Gersons and Panormitans Page 111 24 The reasons why Protestants went not to the Councell of Trent Page 112 25 Iohn Husse burned at the Councell of Constance contrary to the Emperours warrant Page 112 26 No promise made by the Emperour or any secular Prince may hinder the proceedings of Ecclesinsticall Iudges nota 27 Ecclesiasticall Iudges that is the Councell is abone the Emperour Page 113 28 Luther goes to the Councell vpon the Emperours word Pag. 114 The summe of the fifth answere touching the Fathers 1 It is a foolish brag of Papists to challenge all the Fathers for theirs and to be on their side when there is nothing lesse Page 124 2 The popish Denys was not the Denys Areopagite whom Paul conuerted to the faith and his hierarchie as noueltie Page 124. 125 3 Ignatius they boast so much of was a counterfet Page 125. 126 4 The argument is weake Ireneus is challenged by Protestants to haue written something vnsoundly therefore he is altogether on the Papists side he errect about the time of Christs preaching baptisme and death he was a Millenarie Page 126 5 Clemens taught that Christ did neither hunger nor thirst and that he taught but 〈◊〉 veare And that the Philosophers in hellexpeâ—ted Christs comming and being taught by him beleeued Page 127 6 Tertullian in his booke of prescriptions hath many things against the Romish church Page 127 7 The popish Hippolytus is counterfeit and his booke of Antichrist which gesseth that the Diuell was Antichrist Page 127. nota 8 Caussaeus excused for his censure of Cyprian by Nazianzenes report of him what he was in his youth Page 128 9 Cyprian and other Fathers corrupted the doctrine of repentance making it a kind of satisfaction they detracted from the death of Christ and the power of it Page 129 10 Chrysostome Nazianzene Ambrose and Hierome are not wholy on the Papists side because Luther and others censured them in some things Page 130 11 Papists are not the children of the Fathers but as the Pharisies were of Moses and the Iews of Abraham Protestants reuerence the Fathers but acknowledge but one father which is in heauen nota 12 Beza did Hierome no wrong if Erasmus said true of his censuring of S. Paul for want of moderation in ansâ—ering the high Priest and imputing some wants to Christ Page 131 13 Hierome often much wresteth the scripture Page 132 14 It is lawfull to prefer one man in the truth before all Fathers and Councels in error Page 132 15 Lent fast though auncient yet was it not ordeined by Christ or his Apostles the manner of obscruing it not the same in all Churches Page 133. nota 16 What fasts Protestants allow the same iudgement they haue which Augustine hath who knew not Lentenâ—fast Pag. 134 17 The popish Monks are maruelous voluptuous and liue in sensualitie far vnlike those who haue beene Page 134 18 Reliques of Saincts not burned nor their funerals remoued but their superstitions iniurious to God and his glory Pag. 135 19 Augustine in his booke of freewill doth not establish it but sheweth that sinne commeth from mans freewill not from God and therefore intitled his booke so Page 136 20 The Papists and Pelagians differ not much in freewill Pag. 137. nota 21 Necessitie is not opposite to the freedome of Will but to force and compulsion man lost not his will but the qualitie of it nota 22 Augustine esteemed much of antiquitie vnitie and succession if sincere wisdome and truth went with them else he preferred truth before them so do Protestants Page 138 23 Optatus confuted Donatists by the communion of the Catholique Church so are schismatikes to be delt with but not from the now Romish church which is no true church Pag. 138. 139 24 Anthonie and other Hermites like him haue not successors like themselues He accounted a Monastery for a Monke as water is to fish Page 140. nota 25 Prudentius vsed a poeticall libertie in his deuotions to Saincts Page 140. nota 26 Praying to Saincts had gotten great footing in the Church when Ambrose liued and he and other Fathers were corrupted by it Page 141. nota 27 Gregorie without any warrant called Images lay mens bookes Page 141 28 It is lawfull to breake downâ— Images by warrant of the word and examples in it and in the stories of the primitiue Church nota 29 Not Protestants but Papists reiect oftentimes the testimonie of the Fathers and flye to Councels pag. 142. Then Campians argument is not good Protestants reiect some things in the Fathers therefore they reiect their whole volumes for if it be good it will fall vpon themselues Page 142 30 Protestants haue reason to prohibite popish bookes being full of sedition and horesie specially seeing in Queene Maryes time they executed martiall lawe vpon any that had the bookes of Protestants Page 143 31 Bishop Iewel proued all the auncient Fathers to be against the church of Rome in disputing with Harding as he had assumed at the Crosse Page 144. 145 The summe of the sixt Answere touching the foundation of the Fathers 1. Campians reason is weake The Fathers haue studied the scriptures diligently and preferred them before all other writings therefore their exposition of them is sound and good not to be reiected without sinne Page 150 2 Hierome and Augustine dissent about the exposition of Gal. 2.11 Page 151 3 Not only euery particular Fathermaâ—erre but all of one age haue erred in a particular of setting vp Images in the Church Page 150 nota 4 Augustine Innocent and other Bishops thought it neceâ—sary the Eucharist should be giuen to infants Page 151. nota 5 Papists leaue the scriptures and search out and follow after mens inuention Page 152 6 The Papists allow the learned only to reade them but Christ commandeth all Page 152. nota 7 It is prooued against Duraeus that Christ hath commanded the simple to reade the scriptures and hath left to them the bookes of the scriptures Page 152. nota 8 Protestants will subscribe to the Fathers so far as they keepe them to the scriptures Page 153 9 Denys is against the priuate Masse Page 160 10 Priuate Masses cannot profit the absent Page 160. nota 11 In Iustine Martyrs time they gaue to the people both the bread and wine ibid. 12 Cyprian makes all the Apostles equall with Peter and denies that any appeales should be made to the Bishop of Rome ibid. and pag. 161. nota 13 Lactantius denies that true religion and Images can stand together ibid. 14 The heathen worshipped not their Images but the Gods expressed by them ibid. nota 15 Athanasius maketh the scriptures sufficient ibid. 16 Epiphanius condemneth all worshipping of the virgin Mary ibid. and pag. 162 17 The Papists do worship and offer vp sacrifices to the virgin Mary and other Saints Page 162. nota 18 Basil saith in his time the prayers of the Church were in a knowne tongue ibid.
we our selues do giue all diligence we can to attaine true sauing health to which seeing there is but one way and that plainely laid downe in the Scriptures we againe beseech you that renouncing all humane inuentions and forsaking those innumerable fictions of Poperie wherto for these few yeares past you haue bin addicted you would also with vs labour for that eternall saluation which the Scripture hath propounded to all Christians and to as many as are desirous of eternall life For what profiteth it to wish for saluation and miserablie to erre in the search of it Wherfore Campian we pray and beseech you to returne from these your wanderings and errors tending to death into the plaine and straight way of saluation For this know so long as you remaine a Iesuite you neither can be saued nor indeede can desire it And heere you say you are the briefer because you will deale with vs in a Treatise following Therefore now let vs heare your discourse REASONS OF CAMPIANS CHALLENGE RENDRED AND GIVEN TO THE Students of the English Vniuersities EDMVND CAMPIAN My principall reasons are ten 1. Holy Scriptures 2. True meaning of the holie Scriptures 3. Nature of the Church 4. Generall Councels 5. Fathers 6. Sure ground of the Fathers 7. Historie 8. Paradoxes of the Aduersaries 9. Sophismes of the Aduersaries 10. All manner of witnesses The first reason which is holy Scriptures WHereas there are many things which euidently open the Aduersaries mistrust in the cause yet nothing so much as the maiestie of Gods bookes by them most filthilie * It is false for we haue corrupted no part of the Bible corrupted For they who after that they haue reiected the voyces and testimonies of all other witnesses and are neuerthelesse driuen to so narrow shifts that they cannot defend their cause to be good except they lay violent hands vpon the holy Scriptures also assuredly shew themselues to be in great distresse and all other helps failing and fainting must now trie the last and vttermost shift What cause had the Manachies to cancel a Aug. lib. 28. contra Faust cap. 2 de vtilit cre c. 3. S. Matthewes Gospell and the Acts of the Apostles Desperation for they were tormented with these bookes both because they had denied Christ to be b Matth. 1. borne of a Virgin and also had falsely affirmed that then the holy c Act. 2. Ghost came first downe from heauen amongst Christians when their d Manes Paraclete that most wicked Persian leapt out What made the e Jren. lib. 1. cap. 26. Ebionits to abandon all S. Paules Epistles Deâ—peration for so long as these kept their authoritie Circumcision is abolished which they had brought backe againe What enforced f Praefat in Epist Iac. vide etiam lib. de capt Babyl centur 2. Luther that most wicked Apostata to call the Epistle of S. Iames * This is most false for Luther greatly approueth of this Epistle neither euer did he call it a contentious swelling barren or strawne Epistle contentious proud barren rushy and iudge it to be vnworthy an Apostolike spirit Desperation g Iaco. ca. 2. For by this Epistle that miserable caitife affirming our iustification to be by faith * This is false for the place maketh nothing at all against Iustification by faith only only is vtterly confuted coÌ„founded what incensed h Bibl. Geneu Luthers whelpes on a suddaine to put out of the * It is false thâ—se bookes were neuer accounted part of the true Canon true Canon of Scripture Tobias Ecclesiasticus the two bookes of the Macchabees in despight of them many other i Of the old Testament bookes vnto which they picked the like quarrell Desperation for by these heauenly k Tob. 12. Eccles 15. 1. Macha 12 1. Machab. 15. Oracles they be expresly conuinced as often as they dispute against the defence of Angels as often as they dispute against Free-will as often as they dispute against praying for the dead as often as they dispute against praying to Saints Is it so indeed Is there such frowardnes is there such presumption amongst meÌ„ when they had trodden vnder foot the authority of the Churches CouÌ„cels * Seas Fathers Martyrs Emperours People Lawes Vniuersities Histories all Monuments of Antiquitie holines had openly proclamed that they would haue all controuersies decided by the written word of God only would they then haue dismembred the very same word which only remained by cutting out of the whole body so many so good and so excellent partes therof For the Caluinists haue cut out of the old Testament l Baruch Tob. Iudith Sapient Eccles Macha dâ—o seauen whole bookes besides certaine other small peeces which I let passe vnspoken of The Lutherans likewise haue cut off S. Iames Epist for spight of it m Epistol ad Hebr. Epist Jud. Epist 2. Pet. Ep. 2 3. Iohannis it a censent Luth. in praefat Mag. Cent. 1. lib. 2. cap 4. Kem. in exam con Tri. Ses 4. De doct chr lib. 2. cap. 8. Ses 4. vide Mel. Can. lib. 2. de Loc. Theol. cap. 9.10.11 de praedest Sanct. cap. 14. fiue others which some where els also were once called in questioÌ„ To these also do the late Geneuans adde the booke of Hester a great part of the third chapter al the two last chapters of Daniel which the Anabaptists their school-fellowes had a little before coÌ„demned laughed to scorne But how much more modest lie delt S. Austine who making a Catologue of the books of holy Scriptures tooke for his rule neither the Hebrew Alphabet as the Iewes do nor yet his owne priuate spirit as Heretikes vse to do but that spirit wherewith Christ quickneth the whole body of his Church which Church being not Lady as Heretickes do cauil but only keeper of this gage hath by old * This is false for the Laodicene Councel doth so number the bookes of the Scriptures as we do and not as the Councell of Trent doth auncient Councels openly challenged this whole and entire treasure of the bookes of Scripture which the late CouÌ„cell of Trent also hath embraced The self-same S. Augustine intreating particularly of one parcell of Scripture could not perswade himselfe that the booke of Wisdome should by any mans rashnes or secret false suggestion be thrust out of the Canon of Scripture which euen in his time by iudgement of the Church processe of time testimonie af auncient writers and instruction of faithfull men had kept his authoritie as a sound and Canonicall booke what would he say if he were now liuing vpon the earth againe and should see the Lutherans and Caluinists to be Bible makers who with their sine and smooth stile haue raced both the old and new Testament and put out of the Canon of holy Scriptures not only the booke of Wisdome but many bookes more also so that
bookes belong to the old Testament I sent them here vnder written vnto you And this it may be induced Augustine to attribute the more to this booke and yet it cannot be proued hence as you would haue it that this booke was Authenticall and Canonicall by the account of the Church for Augustine himselfe witnesseth that it was not allowed as Canonicall by the iudgement of the Church neither indeed if the Church would haue giuen it all the allowance she could could she haue made it Authenticall except it had before it owne Authenticalnes in it selfe from aboue But you who glory so greatly in Antiquitie in the voice of the Church in Councels what will you answere to the Laodicene Councell Concil Laodic Canon 59. which forbids the reading of those bookes which are without the Canon and commaundeth the reading of those only which are of the Canon of the old and new Testament f DVR It hath been answered a thousand times that as yet in this age all the bookes vvere not receiued into the Canon WHIT. pag. 102. Then by your confession for 300. yeeres after Christ these bookes were not in the Canon it skilleth not much what the latter Churches haue affirmed when the purest and most auncient Churches affirme the same wedo DVR The Councels of Carthage Florence and Trent haue allovved them for Canonicall WHIT. pag. 102. We acknowledge not the two last to be lawfull Councels the first allowed it for manners not doctrine and faith and if the authoritie of it bee so great with you then you may not call your Pope vniuersall Bishoppe for that Councell denied it to him Carthag 3. cap. 26. distinct 99. prima sedis But which are they are all those which the Tridentine Councell hath put in the Catalogue nothing lesse but those only which our Church doth hold Canonicall If Campian you will stand to the iudgement of this Councell neither the booke of Wisdome nor any one of the other shall haue place among the Canonicall Scriptures Now then whatsoeuer Augustine should say if he were aliue doth not much trouble vs for whatsoeuer he should say in this kind he could speake nothing against vs but it would touch the Fathers of the Laodicene Councell whose decree in this point touching the Canonicall Scriptures either he had seene or at least might take notice of it Now for the things which follow you shew much colour but little reason You call this a horrible and detestable shift Then doe you Campian if you can driue vs out of this hold Me thinketh it is so safe and well fortified that it will easily beare off and repell all your assaults Though say you their armes be blased neuer so far abroad by their owne disciples though they buy and sell benefices though in their sermons they cry out against Catholikes though they procure them the sword racke and gallowes yet are they ouercome naught set by horrible in mens sight and quite ouerthrowne But yet young Frier â—ow thus much by Gods blessing we hitherto stand vpright on our seete neither euer were we soyled at your hands but haue long agoe by the helpe of God scattered ouerthrowne and put to flight many of your armies And the whole huge forme of your pontificall and glorious synagogue hath long since tottered and in short time will fall to the ground as Dagon before the Arke vnlesse you Iesuits manfully vphold and susteine it for it is impossible for vs to be vanquished of you in the defence of this cause Therfore with good courage and cheerefulnes we pursue this flight nothing doubting but that the Lord in the end will represse you and all the enemies of his name and glorie and make you his footstoole And for that you write touching buying selling of benefices if any be yet amongst vs it is but the reliques of your wicked practises heretofore among vs. For you know the custome of the Romish Court you know their filthines their auarice their Simony yea you know how the whole world crieth out and that continually of your most gainfull Marchandizes Haue you now leisure since you left Rome to prie into our carriage are all things so wel at home that you can without shame find faults abroad Suppose you were now become honest and holy yet you shall neuer bee able to cleere your Church of those filthie blemishes wherewith it hath bin desiled in former times And if there be any yet amongst vs that vse so foule a trade they are well worthy to heare such reproaches from you as such practises do deserue But I maruell the lesse that you obiect to vs buying and selling of Benefices when you complaine of our crueltie Now good God are we so cruell and you so mild what shall I say to it or what answere may I make sure it is there is nothing more inhumane then cruelty or more opposite to a Christians vertue for the disciples of Christ ought to be gentle clement and meeke master-like what then are we more cruell then you I will neuer deny this triall that their cause should be iudged the worst whose cruelty appeares to be the greatest I call to witnes all the people of the Christian world who haue yet any sense of humanity and equity remaining in them Let Italy speake also Germany Spaine Fraunce and our England It were tedious to recite the horrible murders the fearefull burnings and exquisite punishments you exercised amongst vs. Your cruelty is knowne and is yet fresh in memory neither shall euer be buried in obliuion what like to these did we euer practise or wherein is our cruelty so great was it because we suffered not our throats to be cut by you nor receiued your weapons into our bodies nor laid our neckes vpon the block nor willingly gaue vp our liues that we might giue you leaue to liue as you list This is it indeed you wished for for this you labour and goe about we poore wretches are accounted cruell because we liue and liue to withstand your proceedings But I doubt not but all indifferent men do sufficiently discerne g DVR Campian himselfe had experience of your cruelty WHIT. pag. 105. If Campian was by publike proceeding condemned for treason and put to death who will accuse our cruelty and not the greatnes of his offence yea and that he suffered not for religion appeareth thus others who were condemned with him at the same time and for the same offence when they renounced the Popes authority of deposing of Kings and freeing of subiects from obedience were not put to death as he was how iniuriously you lay this crimination vpon vs for these things which you name as the sword the racke the gallowes and fier are the instruments of your cruelty and had it not been for these your Church had been ouerthrowne long agoe for by these weapons it was first founded after increased and is now maintained if once these faile you questionlesse it
learne from him many new and excellent points This your first reason seemed very iust in your conceit to maintaine your glorious challenge of disputation with some of the learned of our Vniuersities But Campian you had delt a great deale wiser for your self if either you had neuer conceiued thesâ— reasons or streightway vpon the birth smothered them For before by your great challenge you begat a maruelous and wonderfull conceit of your selfe in euery mans mind and now when they shall readâ— those slender reasons of yours they will easily perceiue there is no cause why you should take so much vpon you and they wil tontemptuously deride you as you well deserue hisse you out of their scholes Therefore the counsell which Archidamuâ— gaue to his Sonne headily venturing to right with the Athenians the same doe our Vniuersitie men giue to to you Either adde to thy might or abate of thy mind for no man Campian euer tooke more vpon him and performed lesse than you haue done But let vs see what other things you bring vs. EDMVND CAMPIAN The second Reason which is the right sense of the Scriptures ANother matter that prouoked me to vndertake this enterprize and that enforced mee little to feare these my aduersaries slender armies is the vsuall inclination of my enemie in expounding the Scriptures full of deceite and void of wisdome These things you Philosophers would quickely finde out and therefore I was desirous of your audience Let vs demaund for example sake of our aduersaries what caused them to deuise this new opinion whereby Christ is * This is false for we doe not exclude Christ from the Supper excluded out of the mysticall supper If they name the Gospell we ioyne with them the very words they are for vs. a Matth. 26 Mark 14. Luk. 22. This is my bodie this is my blood which words seemed to b Luther in epist. ad Argen Luther so forcible that when he earnestly desired to be of Zuinglius mind because by that meanes he might haue wrought the Pope most displeasure yet notwithstanding he yeelded being ouercome and vanquished by the most plaine text of Scripture and as vnwillingly confessed that Christ is truly present in the most holy Sacrament as the c Matth. â— Marke 1. diuels in time past being ouercome with miracles with outcries confessed that Christ is the sonne of God Goe to then the written word doth fauour vs the controuersie is about the true meaning of the written word Let vs trie out this by the words thereunto adioyning d Luk. 22. Mattb. 22. Corpus meum quod pro vobis datur sanguis meus qui pro multis eâ—lundetur that is My bodie which is giuen for you my blood which shal be shed for many Yet the matter goeth hard on Caluins side and maketh very manifestly and plainely for vs. What say they else Conferre say they the Scriptures together Agreed The c Iohn 6. Matth. 16. Marc. 14. Luc. 22. Gospels make for vs f 1. Cor. 10. 11. S. Paul accordeth also The words the sentences the whole connexion of Scriptures doe often most reuerently repeate the bread and the wine a not able miracle heauenly foode his flesh his bodie his blood Here is nothing figuratiue nothing obscured by doubtfull speeches yet notwithstanding the aduersaries stand stiffely in their opinion and neuer cease wrangling What shall we then doe I hope antiquitie may be heard and that the reuerend hoare head of Fathers of all former ages to Christs time more nigh farther off from the time of these controuersies may be their iudgement determine this debate which we cannot end amongst our selues being suspected one of another * This is false for in this coÌ„trouersie we willingly admit Antiquity as witnesse They cannot away with that they say then they are betraied They crie out for the sincere and pure word of God they vtterlie reiect all mens commentaries trecherouslie and witlesselie done We will vrge them with the word of God they darken it we call the Saints in heauen for witnesses they refuse them In few words this is their drift that vnlesse thou wilt stand to their owne iudgement that are guiltie there is no iudgement to be had And so they behaue themselues in euerie controuersie betweene vs. As concerning grace powred into vs from heauen inherent iustice the visible Church the necessity of Baptisme Sacraments and sacrifices meritorious works of good folke hope and feare inequality of offences the authoritie of S. Peter the keyes vowes Euangelicall counsailes and other like controuersies we Catholikes in sundrie of our books in our mutuall conference in churches in schooles haue brought forth many and waightie places of Scripture and haue both tried and applied the same They haue scorned at this We haue alledged the interpretations of the auncient Greeke and Latin Churches they haue refused them What say they then marry that M. Doctor Martin Luther or else M. Philip Melanthon or certainelie M. Zuinglius or without doubt M. Caluin and M. Beza haue faithfullie entreated vpon these matters Can I imagine any of you to be so stuffed in the nose that being forewarned cannot quicklie smell out this subtile iugling wherfore I confesse plainlie that I am desirous to haue audience in the Vniuersitie scholes that after I haue called these Ruffian-like knights out of their dark dennes into the open and plaine field I may before your eies discomfite them not by my owne strength which am not to bee compared with the worst of an hundred of our side but by the puissance of the cause and certaintie of the truth which we maintaine WILLIAM WHITAKERS The answere to the second Reason WHat could be said touching the Scriptures wee haue heard wee must proceed to heare what can bee said for the interpretation and exposition of them for our vsuall inclination in expounding the Scriptures saith Campian hath encouraged and incited him earnestly to desire this encounter And we also Campian haue long ago desired to buckle with you herein And at length the Lord hath brought you out of your lurking holes into the broad light that we might trie it out with you but what is our disposition you speake of It is full of deceit say you and void of wisdome Thus you being a man of small reach and lesse discretion do conceite our inclination Assuredly the matter you haue now in hand is a cause of great waight for the force the substance and as it were the soule of the Scripture consisteth in the meaning very well said Hierome The Scriptures are not in the letter but in the vnderstanding Contra Lucifer in 1. cap. ad Gila and in another place a DVR Then Luther and Caluin obtruded a new Gospell vpon the Church when they brought in a new sense of the words such as the whole Christian â—orld knew not yea it had a far other sense of the Scriptures WHIT. pag. 138. If this last
her purer times Hieron ad Laetam de institut siliae epist. 7. it held the foundation which now it hath quite ouerthrowne Hierome I meane whose counsell I would make the ground of my aduice fitting our times He directing Lata for the education of her daughter for this point aduiseth thus Let her first reade the Psalmes that by such heauenly hymnes she may withdraw her selfe from vaine delites Then the Prouerbes of Salomon that thence she may haue excellent instructions for the gouernment of her life Then Ecclesiastes that by it she may learne to conteÌ„ne al worldly things After these the booke of Iob that she may follow the examples of vertue and patience let her proceed to the Gospels and neuer lay them out of her hands the Acts and the Epistles of the Apostles let her studiously reade and make them the delite of her heart And when she hath furnished the storehouse of her soule with these riches let her heedfully reade the Prophets the fiue bookes of Moses the bookes of the Kings and Chronicles and the small volumes of Ezra and Hester And in the last place the Song of Songs lest if she reade it first of all she may happily be wounded while she is not able to vnderstand the spirituall marriage Song set out vnder carnall words But let her take heed of all the bookes of Apocrypha and if at any time she will reade them not for the truth of doctrine but for the reuerent resemblance they may seeme to haue with the holy Scriptures let her take this instruction withal that they were not written by those whose names they carrie and that in them also there are many corrupt things scattered here and there and therefore it is a speciall point of wisedome to cull out the gold from the drosse Let her haue with her the bookes of Cyprian let her runne ouer the Epistles of Athanasius and bookes of Hilarie without feare of error Let her delite in their writings and â—its in whose books is deliuered the sound doctrine of faith Other mens workes let her so reade that she may rather censure them than be tied to follow them Thus farre Hierome Which direction of his as touching the forepart of it the Scriptures and Apocrypha if any think they could better aduise let them for me enioy their conceit vnder their correction I will subscribe fully to it In the latter part because he speaketh of Authors not in our naturall tongue in stead of them I would commend these vnto you written originally in our owne tongue For matter of controuersie Doctor Bilson now Lord Bishop of Winchester his true defence betweene Christian subiection and vnchristian rebellion against the Iesuites Doctor Fulke his answere to the Rhemist Testament and diuers other of his workes and Doctor Willets Synopsis For matter of conscience the Workes of Master Greenham and Master Rogers For matter both of conscience and soundnes of faith the Workes of Master Perkins Many other particular Treatises of speciall things there are written by good and learned men which you may reade as occasion may offer it and the aduice of discreete men may encourage you Now with the bookes of the first kinde would I commend this particular book which at the commanding request of an honorable person I haue both reduced into one booke written by seuerall Authors in seuerall Treatises and translated into English for your benefit In which the greatest part of the controuersies betwixt vs and the Church of Rome you shall finde in some part touched The state of the question plainly laid downe and some manifest short and pithie answere or resolution of it Two Papists are the opponents Campian an Englishman and Duraeus a Scot one Englishman and a famous light of our Church hath answered them both The answere to the first was more sparing because the aduersaries obiections were either slender or sleightly vrged But there is so full a supplie made thereof by the answere to the second that he had little stomacke or abilitie to make a reioynder The whole worke I assure you if you dare take my iudgement will be very profitable if so be you will be attentiue diligent readers For besides that good which is in it self it will be a notable introduction to all other Treatises of controuersies that with more ease and facilitie you may reade them and with more profit be conuersant in them The text as I may so call it is Campians and Doctor Whitakers the marginall notes are composed of Duraeus his obiections in defence of Campian and the Romish errors and the replie of Doctor Whitakers in defence of the truth and his owne answere Duraeus is noted thus DVR Doctor Whitakers thus WHIT. I haue as fitly as I could placed euery obiection with his answere neere vnto that which is excepted against and if any thing happen by the ouersight of the Printer or length of the note to bee not so aptly placed take a little paines to looke ouer the precedent and subsequent pages I confesse I haue in Duraeus omitted many things because they either were not pertinent for the defence of Campian or but the multiplication of many testimonies out of the Fathers which haue their full answere in the generall or answered in some other place before The number in euery answere noteth the page where it is to be found in Doctor Whitakers his replie that any man may turne and reade the answere at large if he vnderstand the tongue and receiue more contentment Yet this know there are seueral impressions of the bookes which also differ that which I followed was imprinted anno 1583. For the most part I haue onely in quotations set downe the booke chapter and verse both of the Scriptures and Fathers and seldome recited the whole words because the margent would not beare it but when the substance of the answere consisted in theÌ„ and therfore you must both helpe me your selues in vsing your Bibles to peruse the places The superiours directing you to what place euery note belongs are the letters of the Alphabet If there be sometimes a note and no superiour you must conceiue it belongs vnto the former note where the superiour is And if the number be somtimes omitted you must so vnderstand that the answere is in the second page where the former is noted The obiection you shall often finde to haue diuers parts and particulars in it and so also the answere semblably Therefore you must take paines for your profit to compare one thing with another and one part with another If you follow these directions you shall reade the whole with no small fruit to your selues And yet to make it more profitable vnto you I haue in reading the sheetes ouer as they were printed gathered the summe of euery answere and the chiefe matter in it not in any order I coÌ„fesse which had bin a thing impossible because no method is in it not from any error of the Answerer
but because he was forced to follow a fellow that rode a wilde goose chase The benefit of which epitomie may be this If you reade the summe of euery answere before you reade each particular answer it will well prepare you to conceiue of the answere it selfe if after which I could wish also you would doe then it will present to you the whole as it were in a mappe When you haue read both and the whole booke if at any time you remember some thing you would see more particularly and can but tell or make some nie coniecture in what answere it is laid downe with reading of one page you may finde in what 〈◊〉 of the 〈…〉 be found Finally let it incourage you the â—â—ther to reade this Treatise because you shall finde in it whatsoeuer is by our late Papists in their Pâ—â—phlets and Treatises which they haue audaciously sent abroad in these few last yeeres when the lawes haue been laid asleepe and the iust seueritie of them greatly qualified I say whatsoeuer is in them either obiected against our Church and doctrine or spoken in their owne defence is here to be found and a solid answere giuen vnto them if any thing would giue them satisfaction If you bee but well exercised in this one booke out of it you may gather some smooth stones as out of a brooke by which though you should not be enabled to hold any long warre with a cunning Papist yet you may smite him in the forehead and fell him groueling to the earth 1. Sam. 17. as Dauid did the vncircumcised Philistine The Apostle exhorts that we earnestly contend for the maintenance of the faith Jude vers 3. which was once giuen vnto the Saints A naked and vnarmed man may well contend but shall neuer be able to maintaine any thing committed to him but it will soone be taken from him so may I say for the truth it is not words but weapons and weight of diuine reason that must defend it therefore must euery Christian souldier that thinkes to haue the crowne take to him such armour as Gods Armourie will affoord him Now those weapons if so be you cannot fetch so readily in the word of truth it selfe because of your infirmitie they are here brought to your hand and you withall are led by the hand to the particular places where they are in the word it selfe Now the Lord of hosts strengthen you in the truth and arme you with his grace that you may be able to stand against all the enemies of your saluation 2. Tim. 4.7.8 and that you may fight a good fight and finish your course and keepe the faith that you may obtaine the crowne of righteousnes which the Lord the righteous Iudge will giue at the last day vnto all those that loue his appearing Yours euer in the Lord Richard Stock The summe of the answere to the first Reason which is holy Scripture 1 PApiste account themselues disarmed if they must fight onely with the scriptures Page 24. nota 2 Of the number of the Canonicall scriptures that Luther and Caluine and their followers haue put out none which antiquitie and the purest Churches haue receiued Page 26 3 Campian was an Apostata not Luther Page 26 4 Luther onely thought not basely of the Epistle of S. Iames but antiquitie also Page 27 5 All Protestants highly reuerence this Epistle of S. Iames. Page 28. 30 6 Luther neuer writ so contempteously of the Epistle of Saint Iames as Campian affirmes Page 29 7 S. Paul and the Fathers haue taught iustification by faith alone Page 30 8 The place of S. Iames expounded and prooued not to be contrary to the doctrine of iustification by faith onely Page 31 9 Not Protestants of late but the Fathers of old haue put out of the Canon Tobias Ecclesiasticus the two bookes of Machabees and diuers other bookes Page 32. 33 10 The Papists cannot defend the Articles of their religion by the Canonicall scriptures but are forced to flye to the Apochrypha Page 34 11 Duraeus contrary to the Councell of Trent denieth traditions to be of equall authority with the scripture Page 34 12 Protestants haue denied no one booke or word of any booke of Canonicall scriptures Page 35 13 Angels do defend the elect but their hirarchy and degrees are without warrant of the word and their worship flat against the word Page 35. 36 14 Man hath no frâ—â—will by nature Page 37 15 The bookes of the Machabees are reiected by diuers Fathers and the Laodicene Councell ibid. 16 Neither prayers to the dead nor for the dead are lawfull Page 38 17 Seâ—â—en bookes of the Apochrypha were put out of the Canon by Hierome a thousand yeares before Caluine was borne Page 39 18 The 3. and 4. bookes of Esdra sometime were highly accounted by the church of Rome Page 39 19 Protestants haue not cut out of the Canon sixe epistles of the new Testament but honour them much neither haue the Lutherans Page 40 20 Augustine and Hierome in their difference for the number of the Canonicall bookes reconciled Page 41. 42 21 Meliâ—o Bishop of Sardis though he put the booke of Wisdome in the Canon yet he excludeth all the rest Page 43 22 The Laodicene Councell forbiddeth the reading of those bookes which are without the Canon and alloweth only the reading of thâ—se which we put in the Canon of the old and new Testament 43.44 The Councell of Carthage allowed them only for manners nota for three hundred yeares these bookes were not in the Canon so confesseth Duraeus nota Page 43 23 The Councell of Carthage denied the Pope to be vniuersall Bishop Page 43 24 The Papists crueltie farre surpasseth the Protestants iust seueritie Page 45 25 The scriptures haue in themselues many proofes that they are the word of God but the certaine infallible and sauing assurance is from the spirit of God Page 46. 47 26 Campian scorneth the iudgement of the spirit in respect of the iudgement of the Church as if they were contrary Page 46. 48 27 The Church can make no writing Canonicall neither doth the authority of it depend on the Church It hath in it selfe his owne authority Page 48 28 Without the spirit a man may haue some knowledge of the scripture but no faith The testiments of the spirit as not 〈◊〉 confute others but confirms our selues Page 45. nota 29 The Lutherans did not onely surde somewhat lacking in the Apocalyps but ouen antiquitie receiued it not you reâ—ected it Page 50 30 Luther preferreth the Gospell of S. Iohn and Paules Epistles before the other Gospels and why Page 50. 51 31 What a Gospell is and who especially is an Euangelist Page 51 32 Campian slandereth Luther as touching S. Lukes Gospell Page 52 33 Beza hath no more offended in charging S. Luke with a solecisme then Hierome did in charging S. Paul Page 53 34 The words of institution in the Supper of the Lord a little examined
corrupt and counterfeit and with this you were put to silence and had not to answere only that you might probablie in shew conuince Luther of blasphemie you demaunded of our men their iudgment of this Epistle They cleerly answered that they accounted this Epistle of S. Iames as all other the Epistles and bookes of the new Testament to be Canonicall Affirming that all our Churches were of the same iudgement And from this you would conclude that Luther therefore was blasphemous because he had written that some probablie called the authoritie of this Epistle into question To this our men replied the consequence was naught from our reuerent opinion of this Epistle to inferre that whosoeuer made any question of it did blaspheme And heere you plainely yeelded For when you boasted of two other reasons that you had you produced none at all After this you came to the old Testament where you accuse vs to haue raced many bookes out of the true Canon The testimonie of Antiquitie was laid before you whence it was cleere that those bookes were not Canonicall Heere you preferred the late Councels and Fathers before the auncient which may not be permitted you And you set Austine in opposition against Hierom when it had been fitter you would haue reconciled them Augustine he affirmes these bookes to be Canonicall Hierome denies them yea expresly plainly and euidently For Augustine our men answered that he vsed the word Canonicall doubtfully or in diuers signification And that they shewed plainely out of Augustines owne words and Cardinall Caietans Augustine you shifted off and Caietan you audaciously reproached affirming that the Cardinall lost all his grace and elegancie when he once began to Comment vpon the Scriptures At length Campian you were forced euen in Gratian not without blushing to acknowledge this ambiguity of the word And whereas you could not be ignorant of auncient records it was a wonder to our men to see you write that we had of a sudden raced out these bookes Surely this word escaped you very vnlearnedly and inconsideratly we haue store both of auncient witnesses and of others succeeding them who will and can free vs from such imputation of Noueltie To passe by Origen and Eusebius Cyprian or whosoeuer he was that writ the exposition of the Creed we find among his workes after he had reckoned vp all the Canonicall bookes of the old and new Testament he addeth These are those bookes which the Fathers haue included in the Canon Cyprian in expos Symbo where they would that all the grounds of our faith should haue their foundation Yet we must know that there are other bookes which were not called of our predecessors Canonicall but Ecclesiasticall as the booke of Wisedome said to be Salomons and another booke of Wisdome said to be Syrackes Of the same rancke is the little booke of Toby and Iudith and the bookes of the Machabies To him I will adde another later in time and yet he writ 400. yeeres agoe Hugo de sancto victore a very learned man and famous in his time If you haue not read what he hath written in this kind reade it if you haue read it remember it with me after he had reckoned vp by name the Canonicall bookes of the old Testament in the end he thus writeth There are besides in the old Testament Hugo de Sanct. victore in prologo pomi lib. de Sacram. cap. 7. certeine other bookes which indeed we reade but are not written in the corpes of the text or in the authentike Canon As the booke of Toby and Iudith and Machabees and the booke called the Wisdome of Salomon and Ecclesiasticus I omit others and many which I could produce in this kind and that of all ages out of which the constant iudgement of the Church touching these bookes may be discerned Which being so doth it become you Campian to be so iniurious vnto vs so boldly to affirme that we haue latelie crossed out those bookes out of the Canon or which of vs wil be afraid of you triffling so childishly please not your self too much with your wit neither abuse the gifts and parts which you haue gotten by nature or industry to defend falshood and to vphold the kingdome of Antichrist Lay your hand vpon your hart and know your selfe well and cease from that arrogancie with which your vaine sect hath puffed you vp leaue off your lying shake off that Iesuiticall light be hauiour of yours And as Augustine perswaded Hierome take to you the grauitie of a Christian and make recantation For it is no dishonor to recant an error but to persist in it But let vs againe come to your preface There remaineth only for me say you an account to be giuen of my fact and euidently to shew and as it were with the finger to point at those Chapters and fountaines which breed in me such confidence But we Campian can see no cause at all why you should promise so great things of your self or so trust in those fountaines which are as vaine as may be and light as water for these your ten heads which haue made you so headie and bould are so many guilded lies vpon which if you relie your case is farre more lamentable then of those Iewes whom the Prophet Ieremie reproues Trust not in lying words Jer. 7.4 saying The Temple of the Lord The Temple of the Lord. And what is your Euensong but this or that which is farre more foolish and desperate But you say You are able enough to proue that this Sunne shineth now at midday Your sufficiencie all men may see You are as wel able Campian to turne the day into night and to pull the Sunne out of the heauens as defend these heads Those vnusuall boastings and promises so vsuall with you argue a mind proud and swelling with arrogancie and not indued with sound knowledge and learning The emptier the vessels be the lowder they sound VVhat insolencie I pray you made you adde that of Roscius Supposition as if the things you defend were as manifestly true as it is impossible any man should run 700. miles in two daies I am ashamed Campian to see how vaine you be and full of boasting and arrogancy What dare you vndertake to conuince all the most famous and excellent Churches of the world of error as directly and plainly as it is impossible for a man to walke 700. miles in two daies If Campian you can compasse the world in three daies if you can outgoe the Sun if touch the heauens with your fingers if number the starres if drinke vp the sea you may demonstrate the truth of your cause to which you are so deuoted But if those things surpasse your strength then shall you neuer make this good no though the whole knot of Iesuits ioyne with you Now whereas you intreate vs to haue a care of our soules health we take in good part your desire and endeuour of our saluation And indeed
the fatte would be in the fire Campian if you had not one fit of rayling at Luther for this is to shew your selfe a right Iesuite as indeed you are shamelessely and audaciously to breake out into rayling and specially to teare Luther with most bitter reproches This is your facultie and profession this you haue vndertaken to do whatsoeuer youâ— leaue vndone surely he is an happy man whom the Lord thus honoreth with the enmitie and hatred of such wicked men for he cannot chuse but be an excellent man whom wicked men do so deadly pursue But you obiect against Luther his Apostasie look to your selfe Campian if you may not bee more iustly accused of this crime for doubtlesse you are either an Apostata or you were a cunning hypocrite But if it be Apostasie to forsake Apostataes then was Luther such an Apostata For hee abandoned theeues heretikes Apostataes and separated himselfe from that Curch in which that daily Apostasie from religion 2. Thess 2.3 which the Apostle did foretell was now come to the height they then who would not be Apostataes must flie from the Apostasie of your Church But say you Luther spake not so reuerently of the Epistle of S. Iames as was fitting It is well all you can challenge him with is touching this Epistle only he neuer did by any one word impeach the Gospels of Matthew Marke Luke and Iohn neither the Epistles of Saint Paul or Saint Peter only a little he taxed the Epistle of Saint Iames. Is Luther alone in this crime hath all Antiquitie receiued this Epistle of S. Iames Luther only reiected it vndoubtedly no neither was Luther ignorant what censure the auncient Church gaue of this Epistle * Lib. 2. c. pa 23. Eusebius adueÌ„tured to write expresly of this Epistle thus b DVR But Eusebius onely saith that this Epistle vvas thought of diuers not to be vvritten by S. Iames and denies not the canonicall authoritie of it For after hee saith It was receiued of many Churches WHIT. Pag. 12. You wrest both the words and sence of Eusebius for he alleageth not other mens opinions but his owne direct iudgement But if wee admit that you say it must the rather bee counterfeit for if Saint Iames did not write it and yet hee calleth himselfe James the seruant of God and of our Lord Iesus Christ must it not bee forced â—aue the pen-men of the Scripture vsed to take other mens names vnto them If you deny it to bee written by Saint James you must needes confesse it to be Apocrypha and so after your sense Eusebius hath reiected this Epistle which thing to him that readeth Eusebius will manifestly appeare And that hee saith many Churches receiue it and not all must needs proue that he thought it was not Canonicall Be it knowne to all men that this Epistle which is fathered on Saint Iames is counterfeit what can be written more plainely it may be you will except against Eusebius But tell vs why therefore not to stand with you Hieronym in Catalogo will you heare what Hierome saith who as you well know was an Elder of the Church of Rome The Epistle of Iames is held to haue been published vnder his name by some other The one saith it is counterfeit the other writeth that it was thought to be published not by the Apostle but by some other Why then are you angrie with Luther whom you see not vnaduisedly and rashly to doubt of the authoritie of that Epistle but therein followeth the iudgement and censure of the auncient Church for from hence it is very cleare c DVR Doth hee therefore doubt of the authoritie of this booke what shall vve then say to Caluin vvho hath plainely denied that the Epistle to the Hebrues vvas vvritten by Saint Paul and if you had not been a deceiuer you vvould haue alleadged Hierome vvholy for it follovveth Though by little and little in succeeding ages it obtained authoritie WHIT. Pag. 16 He that saith It is thus held and neither dislikes nor refures such a suspition sheweth he not himself also doubtful of it Caluin had some reason because that Epistle was not published in the name of Saint Paul as this was of Saint Iames. What comparison is there in these two the Epistle of Saint Iames hath his name in the beginning of it as the author of it so hath not the other the name of Saint Paul so that hee that denies that to bee written by Saint Iames must needes make it counterfeit But no such thing here Therefore may this be held to be canonicall though it be denied to be written by Saint Paul If you had read but a few lines more you should finde that I vsed no deceite neither had you causâ— to be so bitter And these words of Hierome prooue directly that the authoritie of this Epistle was sometimes doubted of that the first age of the Church doubted somewhat of the credit and authoritie of this Epistle But you will say it was afterwards receiued and Hierome witnesseth as much I inquire not how iustly that might be receiued in a succeeding age which once was reiected that the credit and authoritie it had not in the beginning it might gaine in time by mens calmnesse in iudging neither will I contend about the authority of this Epistle Let it be as great as euer any booke had we verily receiue it and put it in the Canon of the Scriptures for whatsoeuer Luther or any other may conclude touching this Epistle or lessen the credit of it any way yet all our Churches willingly imbrace it and iudge it written by the Apostle or some Apostolike man and in it do vndoubtedly acknowledge the doctrine and spirit of an Apostle * Caluin in argument in Epist. Iacob I saith Caluin willingly and without controuersie receiue this Epistle because I see no iust cause to reiect it Therefore obiect no longer vnto vs other mens sharpe censures and hard speeches whereof we are no wayes guilty for what is it to vs what other men thinke of this Epistle who dispraise no part of it neither detract any thing from the authority thereof But where I pray you writ Luther any such thing which you make mention of let vs see the place that we may perceiue how faithfully you deale You tell vs of a Preface he writ vpon the Epistle of S. Iames such as I thinke few men know for it is no where to be found amongest Luthers workes yet by accident I light vpon that preface and read it from the beginning to the ending in which not any of those things is to be seene which you mention so that we may easily coniecture what we are like to find of you in the sequell when in the beginning you are not ashamed to lye so palpablie For Luther begins his preface thus The Epistle of S. Iames though reiected of Antiquitie I much commeÌ„d hold very fitting profitable And in
â—hich diuideth Christis not of God â—nd the historie of the adulterous woman Iohn 8.3 WHIT. pag. 65. We haue not raced it out of the â—cripture for it is not to be found in the moâ—t auncient Greek copies but as we read it 1. Ioh. 4.3 Cyprian also l. b. 2. cap. 8. testim contra Iudaeos so reads it and Augustine also ad Poâ—â—ent lib. 2. cap. 7. reads bo h. The history of the woman taken in adultery we race not out though some of the auncient haue done and Beza though he demurred about it veâ— neuer dashed it out part and portion of any booke which appeareth to haue bin written and confirmed by diuine authoritie I will neuer contend any longer but yeeld you the day and giue vp our weapons to you But if we haue euer most faithfully kept the whole corpes of the Scriptures and haue seuered the true bookes from false and haue defended the heauenly truth of God and preserued it vncorrupt why doe you poore silly Fâ—ier cry out of our desperation when your selfe is so farre plunged in desperation it selfe that there is no certainty of your saluatioÌ„ but by the deprauation and corruption of the holy Scriptures Now in that you affirme we are conuinced by those oracles As often as we dispute of the defence of Angels of freewill of praying for the dead and of praying to Saints they are thing which we haue discussed a thousand times and haue exactly determined them out of the true oracles of God The defence of Angels is taught vs in the Scripture where we are taught that God hath set his Angels ouer certaine people Dan. 10. 12. â—sal 91.11 places and men and of this in general we nothing doubt but that Angels haue that commission from the Lord that they must prouide for mens safety and saluation So that we deny them not some kind of ministration yea we attribute as much to them as the Lord hath taught vs we should And as for your q DVR Denys â—as S Pauls disciple and he hath manifested such mâ—â—teries WHIT. pag 68. Why did not S. Paul who waâ— rapt vp into the third heauen and saw such great things declare vnto vs the hierarchy of Angels did he burâ—e it in silence and his disciple tell it abroad But Denys was not the disciple of S. Paul as shall in another place be proued Hierarchie and manifold degrees of Angels we are willingly ignorant of them and no whit enuy your knowledge who haue had the reuelation of such great mysteries from your Denys who hath that I may vse the words of S. Paul aduaunced himselfe in those things whic he neuer saw But it is another patronage of Angels which you defend and hold that we ought to worship them and call vpon them which the Scripture in plaine words forbiddeth for r DVR Saint Paul forbids onely the offering vp of sacrifice to Angels and making of them nevv mediatâ—rs WHIT pag. 70. S. Paul foâ—bids all worshipping of them and so prayers a swell as sacrificeâ— they being a part of worship pag 71. Chrysost in Coloss 2. hom 7. in these words Occumen in Coloss 2. whom you alledge do not interpret them for you but for our opinion and as the truth is S. Paul condemnes Worshipping of Angels Coloss 2.18 And the Angell once and againe called S. Iohn from this kind of worship Å¿ DVR Saint Iohn did nâ—t worship the Angell but tooke the person of those who held that Angels were to be worshipped with sacrifices that he being forbidden they might be reproued in him WHIT. pag. 72. John did not as you say for neither offered he any sacrificeâ— neither affirmeth he that he dissembled but saith directly I fell downe to worship before him You on the coÌ„trary say he fell not downe to worship And your Thomas vpon Apoc. 19. saith S. John intended to worship with Dulia And vpon Apocal. 22. with Latria See thou doest it not Apoc. 19.10 22 9. Tob. 12. I am thy fellow seruant and one of thy brethren worship God As for Raphael in t DVR The auncient Fathers haue cited the booke of Toby aâ— Irene Cyprian Hâ—la WHIT. pag. 73. Then will it follovv thâ—t out of what booke soeuer the Fathers haue alledged any testimony it must be of the Canon â—o the 3 4. bookes of Esdra for Augustine Cyprian Ambrose cite them yet your Church reiecteth them DVR Hierome putteth them out of the Iewish Canon not of the Canon of the Church WHIT. pag. 74. It is strange those Fathers should make them Canonicall when iâ— Hieromes time long after them they were not no they were neither in the Canons of the Church nor of the Ievves Canon Hieron in Prasat in lib. Salom. DVR Your English Synagogues reade Toby very much WHIT. pag. 76. And other Apochryphaeâ— but accounteth them not in the Canon Tobie we passe not greatly neither do acknowledge those seauen Angels of whom he speaketh All that which was spoken of Raphael or which he speaketh of himself iâ— far differing from the holy Scriptures and it sauoureth strongly of superstition The place of Ecclesiasticus doth not much trouble me neither should I the sooner beleeue u DVR pag. 76. If you deâ—y free wilâ— to man by nature aâ—d that be cannot but sinne you establish the Fate of the Sâ—â—ickes WHIT. pag. 77. No more then vvhen vve say Angells necessarily doe good and diuels euer euill Againe vve deny not mans freewill to naturall and ciuill actions but to the duties of faith because till the sonne hath made him free he must needs be a seruant of sinne free will though he an hundred times should repeate that sentence Ecclesiast 15.17 Gen. 6.5 before man is life and death seeing that the x DVR The Scripture doth not teach that men haue lost free will by nature WHIT. p. 78. What then meaneth it 1. Cor. 2.14 If man cannot vnderstand the things of God and eternall life how can hee will them or doe them Phil. 2.13 The will and deede is wrought in vs by God Gen. 6.5 If hee can thinke nothing but euill where is free will Scripture teacheth that man lost his freedome by sinne the same thing teach the y DVR The Fathers doe not deny free vvill WHIT. pag. 79. August Enchirid cap. 30. Ambrose de vocat gent. cap. 9. Bernard de libr. arbâ—t doe deny it Fathers also and euery mans owne experience howsoeuer these words may be vnderstood of mankind as he was sometime in Adam For thus he writeth a little before Ecelesiâ—it 15. vers 14. He made man from the beginning and left him in the hand of his owne counsaile if he speake of the first condition and state of man and of his perfect and vncorrupt nature wherein he was created of the Lord he speaketh very true but if he made it now free for vs as we are naturall men to chuse or
refuse life or death at our owne pleasure I am not so bound by the authoritie of this booke and testimonie but that I may appeale from his Apochryphall sentence to the tried Oracles of God Now for your booke of the z DVR No Church euer reiected the booke of the Macchabees WHIT. pag. 83. The Church of the Iewes did wholy and the Church of the Christians as I haue shewed before Yea Gregory the great who was Bishop of Rome in Iob. lib. 17. Cap. 16. denies them to be in the Canon And the Fathers though they cite them as he did yet so accounted them for no better DVR Augustine placeth them in the Canon WHIT. pag. 83. Yet Gregory vvho liued 200. yeeres after him denies them to be Canonicall besides Augustine so calleth them because the Church of Christians read them and did not reiect them so as the Ievves did August de ciuitat Deâ— lib. 18. cap. 36. August cont Gauden lib. 2. cap. 23. further Duraeus confesseth that they were neither written by a Prophet nor confirmed by a Prophet then certeine it is they are not in the Canon DVR Christians must be ruled by the iudgment of the Catholike Church WHIT. pag. 85. The Catholike Church cannot make those bookes which are not Canonicall to be Canonicall besides I haue shewed that the Catholike Church doth reiect them Macchabees I make far lesse account of it which Hierome Epiphanius Athanasius Cyprian haue hissed out and the Leodicene Councel hath reiected Moreouer that which is therein spoken of the sacrifice offered vp for the sinnes of the dead is meerely matter of supposall and forced into the text for neither in Iosephus is any such thing to be found in the Greeke neither in Iosephus the sonne of Gerion who yet writ the self-same history in Hebrew is there any mention of any such sacrifice neither had the a DVR The Iews Machzor sheweth that they do pray and offer sacrifice for the dead WHIT. pag. 85. I much â—egard not what the Ievves do now I affirmed that the old Ievves had neither precept nor practise for it Iewes either by precept or practise any such custome to offer sacrifice and prayers for the dead Lastly in the Greeke copy there is that inuersion and disordered placing of the words that you can hardly make any true sense or any whole sentence hang together View the place in the Greeke text and if you can fitly translate it so that all things may hang well together I will yeeld you are a better Grecian then I tooke you for Shall I be tied then by the authority and force of this booke place or sentence to offer with you prayers and oblations for the dead you are too too childish Campian to thinke such things can incline the Students of our Vniuersities to like your side other manner of matter must you bring and of more force if you will gaine our fauourable audience and good conceite for these things long agoe we haue distasted and spit out but who euer said your selfe excepted that this place of the Macchabees doth proue and confirme inuocation of Saints It is one thing to offer sacrifice for the dead and another thing to say that the Saints departed make intercession for vs. As for Iudas b DVR Many things were declared to the Prophets by dreames WHIT. pag. 87. Must I therefore beleeue euery dreame written in the Apochrypha bookes as diuine oracles neither did that dreame make the Macchabees pray to Onia or Jeremie but to the Lord only 2. Mac. 15.21 DVR The Ievves thought that Christ had praied to Eliah vvhen Matth. 27.47 he said Eli Eli Lamb. c. therefore praying to Saints vvas familiar and common vvith them WHIT. pag 87. It is plaine that the Iewes said this only to deriâ—e Christ whom they thought God had forsaken and therefore he fled to Eliah for helpe dreame touching Onia of which we read 2. Macchab. 15. I passe it ouer as a dreame but the matter is not great whether you vnderstand the intercession of the dead or oblations for the dead both is yours and both most false And heere againe you cry out with great vehemency Is it true indeed is there such frowardnes is there such presumption among men heere is neither the one nor the other Campianâ— we haue done nothing frowardly nothing presumptuously I wonder at your frowardnes and presumption that those bookes which God disclaimes as none of his which reuerend antiquitie hath put out of the Canon yet you in your horrible detestable frowardnes presuÌ„ption will bring into the Canon whether God wil or no the holy Fathers denying them the bookes themselues disclaiming it The Caluinists say you haue cut off from the body of the old Testament These are Baâ—uch Tobâ—as Iudâ—th Suâ—â—ent a. Ecâ—â—ejiasâ—icus tâ—â—o Macchabees Hâ—â—ron prae fâ—t in Ier. seauen whole bookes Why you shamelesse Frier did not Hierome a thousand yeeres before Caluin was borne race them out Why then slippe you ouer Hierome and quarrell with Caluin only when they are both in one predicament Heare yet againe what Hierome saith Whatsoeuer is besides these bookes is to be accounted Apocrypha but these seauen bookes which you reckon vp and calumniously auouch that we haue raced them out are besides those Hierome makes mention of they are then to be accounted Apochrypha For most of these we haue sufficiently answered For Baruch Hierome saith We neither reade it nor find it in the Hebrew all the other he casteth out of the Canon Hieron ad Domnion Rogatian and writeth freely Those bookes which are not to be found in the Hebrew neither are any of the 24. are tobe reiected of those who are of ripe yeeres and knowledge But you Iesuits are alway Children as the Egyptian Priest answered Solon touching the Grecians I wonder why you say neuer a word touching the third and fourth booke of Esdra it may be you are ashamed of them being bookes as Hierome writeth full of dotages yet your Church hath had them in great account and the Fathers often times haue alledged testimonies out of them why do you Campian suddeinly dash these bookes out of the Canon If you iudge they must be kept in the Canon why doe you not taxe the Caluinists who as all men know haue cut them out of the old Testament Why when you number vp all those sacred bookes cut out of the Canon by the Caluinists omit you these altogether Or if these be Apocrypha why should we deeme the rest to be Canonicall I am not a little desirous to know what is your iudgement of these bookes but you say further Epist. Iacob Ep ad Heb. Epist. Juda. Epist. 2. Pet. Epist. 2. 3. Ioan. The Lutherans haue cut off Saint Iames Epistle and for spite of it fiue others which somewhere else also were once called in question That these were once and elsewhere in question you cannot deny The
light and euidence of the storie hath wrung this from you But tel vs who made question of them Did heretikes onely Then account Eusebius Hierome amongst heretikes who haue reported to vs their owne iudgement of these Epistles with the iudgement of the Church Can you prooue that they were accounted heretikes in the first and pure ages of the Church who tooke out of the Canon these Epistles For the Epistle of Saint Iames I haue answered sufficiently we neither reiect that nor any of the other Epistles which you falsely accuse the Lutherans to haue cut out this is no fauit of ours whom you knowe to be farre from Lutheranisme quarrell then with them as for vs we neuer cunningly shifted off the testimonies and allegations of those Epistles Can you in equitie require any more of vs At length then forbeare to vpbraide vs with I knowe not what desperation frowardnes and presumption wee willingly admit receiue and allow of your owne bookes which your selfe make vse of in disputation to their iudgment will we stand if you can conuince vs by these you winne the field That which you adde of the booke of Ester and of almost three whole chapters of Daniel is nothing but cauilling The booke of Ester we account Canonicall as much as by Gods authoritie is written in b DVR As if the Hebrevv tongue were the rule of the Canon and of diuine authority WHIT. pag. 90. No booke is a part of the new Testament which is vvritten in Latin yet is not Greeke the rule of the Canon Hebrew but those fragments which commonly are annexed to that holy history of Ester we cannot so highly account of as for those three chapters they are none of Daniels of which read if you please c DVR Hicrome to Ruffinus seemeth to approue those three chapters of Daniel WHIT. pag. 92. Erasmus noted that Hierome delt craftely hauing in his preface shevved he thought othervvise Hieromes preface vpon Daniel And there you shall find that not the Anabaptists only but the auncient Iewes haue reiected and derided them But Campian why doe you trifle thus were you wont to build much vpon the authority of those bookes did you in these lay the foundations of your faith why then do you seeke to make vs odious by these bookes which if they were neuer so Canonical would further your cause neuer a whit the more Now you much commend Augustines modestie VVho August de doctrin Christ. lib. 2. cap. 8. say you hath made a Catalogue of the bookes of holy Scripture farre better then either the Iewes or Sectaries I could wish you Iesuits had a little more modestie that ye might be more like Augustine for all men speake and cry out of your male pertnes and insolency But Augustine counted those bookes Canouicall which we do not true I deny it not but what of that is not Augustine opposite to Hierome for Hierome expressely denies those bookes to be nuÌ„bred in the Canon And Augustine setting downe the whole Canon of the Scripture doth annex these to it It seemeth there is a great difference in their iudgements for those which Hierome denies Augustine affirmeth to be Canonicall both famous men and such as haue deserued well of the Church of God how then may we satisfie Augustine whom Campian obiecteth vnto vs No otherwise then as the truth is The termes of Apochrypha and Canonicall Hierome vseth in one sense and Augustine in another Hierome accounted all these bookes Apochrypha which were not written in Hebrew Augustine though in deed and in truth he differed not yet he gaue this name especially to those bookes which were not fraught with fables and lies such as those times afforded very many For so he writeth lib. 15. cap. 23. de ciuit Dei Though there be some truth found in the Apochrypha bookes yet they haue no Canonicall authoritie there being so many lies in them Therefore he names in the Canon the booke of Iudith and Toby and Ecclesiasticus other of that sort because there was more truth and sinceritie in them then in those common and diuulged fables Therefore Augustine vseth the terme of Canonicall Scripture more largely then Hierome and of Apochrypha more strictly vnlesse happily we will suppose that of set purpose Augustine would differ from Hierome in a thing of that moment Besides the Romish Cardinal Caietan in fine comenta in histor veter Testameuti of whom we spake before writeth that certeine Councels with Augustine accounted these bookes Canonicall because they were rules for manners not for faith and doctrine And what reason Augustine had to plead for the booke of Wisdome De predest Sanct. c. 24. least it should be turned out of the Canon let him looke to it himselfe this very booke Hierom whom you Iesuits vsually preferre before Augustine hath by name excluded and from the selfe-same place where Augustine confirmeth the authority of this booke euery man may gather that it was not commonly receiued in the Canon for when Augustine cited a testimony out of that booke He was taken away Wisd 4.11 least wickednes should alter his vnderstanding many of the brethren who were present cried out It was not alledged out of a Canonicall booke d DVR But you reuiue not Augustines ansvvere and hovv he obiected against them the consent of all Bishops faithfâ—ll Laitie c. WHIT. pag. 97. Augustine doth not accuse them of impudency or sacriledge for denying it nor reprouâ—s them much only he saith it is better then other treatises vvhich I acknovvledge And the consents of the former he alledged to proue that a sentence of this booke is not lightly to be reiected seeing many Churches did reade it though all did not receiue it as himselfe saith de ciuit Dei lib. 27. cap. 20. Now it is like they neuer would haue reiected the argument and testimony of this speech if the authoritie of that booke had been Canonicall in the Church And yet I denie not but that Antiquitie might thinke more reuerently of this booke then of other of the bookes of Apochryphaes For I obserue in Eusebius that c DVR Melito affirmeth this booke to be Canonicall WHIT. pag. 98. Be it so yet he reiectes all your other and what haue you got by it But by the name of Wisdome some thinke he meaneth the Prouerbs of Salomon Melita the Bishop of Sardis in a certeine Epistle written to Onesimus wherin he setteth downe exactly the number of the sacred bookes of the old Testament and accounteth this booke as one of the Canon yet he mentioneth not one of the others which we call Apochrypha neither Toby nor Iudith nor the Macchabees nor Ecclesiasticus nor yet any of the rest for which you striue so much yet he affirmeth that he tooke great paines to know exactly those auncient bookes and professeth that he fully attained his end Eusebius lib. 4. cap. 26. After saith he I had learned exactly what
cannot long continue But you now begin to presse your aduersaries somewhat more forceably and you demaund of them for example sake by what authority they maime and robbe the corpes of the Bible I answere we offer no violence to this body neâ—ther do we cut off any which doe appertain to the substance and perfection of it we dash out no part of it we pull away no member For to vse your owne words we do not cut out any true Canonicall Scriptures but cull out such as are not Canonical but foisted in and counterfeit But you would know who shal be iudge you make Caluin to answere for vs the holy Ghost and you suggesting that he giueth this answere to escape the iudgement of the Church if you enquire how we know these writings which we call Scriptures to be heauenly and giuen by the inspiration of God that is by what testimony we are perswaded that those writings are holy Scripture which are so called I would aske you with as much reason another question how know you the sonne is the sonne or how ye come not to doubt that God is God for we verely haue as much certeinty that thâ—se bookes are the sacred Scripture commended of the Lord to the Church written by the Prophets and Apostles proceeding from diuine authoritie as that the Moone is the Moone yea as wee are sure of any thing else which by vndoubted knowledge we are full assured of this answere Caluin also hath giuen you Iustit lib. 1. cap. 7. sect 4. cap. 8. toto writing that many things might be produced which would easily proue that if there be a God in heauen the Law the Prophets and the Gospell came from him yea and with many words at large he vrgeth it with most strong arguments such as may satisfie any reasonable man touching the authoritie and credit of the Scriptures There are in the bookes themselues proofes enough both certeine and perspicuous which will proue and demonstrate the credit of the Scriptures that no man need boubt of them But because the sense and reason of man is often times weake and easily distracted into diuers and doubtfull cogitations the inward and hidden testimony of the spirit must be had that men may firmely rest in the Scriptures For though outward testimonies will so conuince vs that for shame we cannot deny the Scriptures to be the word of God yet then only do we attaine a certeine and sauing ful assurance when the same spirit which writ and published them doth perswade our harts of the credit of them And this is that spirit which the Lord hath promised to his Church and which dwelleth in the harts of the faithfull and is as a seale vnto them he that hath not this spirit shall euer in himselfe be vncerteine and doubtfull though he heare the Church a thousand times What is the fault then you find Campian Caluin say you doth make the spirit Iudge thereby to escape the iudgement of the Church by whose authoritie all spirits are tried The iudgement of the Church ought not to differ from the iudgement of the spirit the same spirit gouerneth the whole h DVR What an absurd thing is this that you contemne the voice of the Church and allow your common people to iudge rather of the Scriptâ—res and giue all to the spirit when the Fathers haue obiected the Church against heretikes WHIT. pag. 109. We contemne not the voice of the first Church wherein these were written and from theÌ„ commended to succeeding Churches But pag. 108. we much regard not the voice of your Romish Church for as we know there is a God though it tell vs not so much so that the Scriptures are the word of God though it be silent and by the same grounds that your Church knoweth the Scriptures to be the Scriptures by the same proofes may euery priuate Christian know them pag. 111. If you know not that the grace of the spirit is necessary to discerne the Scriptures then reade these places John 14 26. 1. Iohn 2 26 27. 1 Cor. 2 14 10. Esay 51 16. Now the same spirit who wâ—it them seales them vp to vs without which some knowledge may be had of them bâ—t no faith we may acknowledge them but not certeinly beleeue them without the spirit And if the Fathers haue obiected the Church against heretikes in the like case we will do the same For the testimony of the spirit is not of validity to confute others but to confirme our selues Church and euery particular beleeuer But your Church knoweth not this spirit no maruell then if it dislike the iudgement of the spirit yet I would haue you take this for an answere once for all that the authority of the Scriptures doth not depend vpon the iudgement of the Church for let the Church iudge what it will yet can it neuer by all the authority it hath make the Canonicall bookes to be no Canonicall and that those which are not Canonicall should be had in reputation as Canonical The Scripture hath it owne proper authority in it selfe not borrowed froÌ„ another And as little can the Church add authority to the Scripture as it can to God the authour of it But say you how commeth it to passe that the Caluinists spirit alloweth six Epistles which the Lutheran spirit doth disallow you go in a ring making only the repetition of the same things without any proceeding Those Epistles the Lutherans i DVR That the Lutheâ—anâ— do not like these Epiâ—iles tâ—ey of Magdeburg Centur. 1. lib. 2. cap. 4. tell vs plainely WHIT. pag. 117. What is that to vs who thinke as honorablie of them as you do but if they by the example of auncient â—hurches haue spokeÌ„ somewhat hardly of those Epistles is there heere any such difference of â—pirits All things are not reueâ—led to all a like all haue not the like measure of the spirit If any be otherwise minded God will in his time reueâ—le â—t to him doe not reiect nor dash them out of the new Testament yea they acknowledge them they make vse of them in vnfoulding of controuersies they expound them in their schooles and churches and they reade them both priuately and publikely vpon many of them Luther hath written k DVR By the same reason if Luther should comment vpon certeine of Aesops fables and Illyricus vpon al then by their spirit they are certeinly receiued into the Canon WHIT. pag. 117. And why may not Aesops fables be in the Canon if your Church please seeing your VVolfangus Hermannus affirme the Scriptures are of no more authority then those fables without the authority of your Church But I adde if you would haue seene it that they vsed them in preaching in expounding Scriptures in deciding controuersies and did interpret them both priuately and publikely Commentaries Illyricus vpon all That of the authority of those Epistles in times past the Catholike Church made some doubt they
discouer to their Auditors and shew withall the causes of that doubt and that done leaue it vndetermined I pray you Campian what contradiction find you heere betwixt the spirit of the Caluinists and the Lutherans Yet still you cauil at this iudgement of the spirit which of all other is most certeine and heauenly and heere you produce Anabaptists Castalio Brentius Kemnitius Luther and Beza And by these you hope that you may diminish the authority of the spirit Sixt. Senens lib. 7. The Anabaptists say you call the historie of Iob a fable interlaced with tragicall and Comicall matters As though we were ignorant how wickedly and blasphemously they conceiue not only of the history of Iob but also of the whole bookes both of the new and old Testament and that spirit of the Anabaptists what was it but a kind of frency and a violent and head-strong madnes which no spirit euer did more represse then l DVR The Anabaptists will aswell accuse the spirit of Calnin of madnes and solly WHIT. pag. 119. Yet I durst make you iudge of this controuâ—â—fie vnles you were also as mad you would iudge them very vnlike the Caluinist and Lutheran spirit Why then doe you mention their madnes therby to scoffe at the certeine iudgements of the holy Ghost Prafat in Cantic Castalio say you made no more account of Salomons Song then he did of a bandy song and ribauldous talke of a Courtly waiting maide with her louer I will not take vpon me to defend all that any man hath written at randome much lesse will I trouble my selfe to defend the credit of Castalio whom I well know hath erred in many great points very shamefully Yet in this place I find you haue notably abused Castalio for in that short preface which he hath set before this booke he hath none of those you speake of neither a song nor a Loue nor courtly waiting maides nor wanton talke nor any such thing but hath truly learnedly and modestly in few words comprised the summe of the whole booke his first words are these A conference betwixt the Sauiour and his Church Now you may see how highly Caestalio accounted of this song and how shamelesse your cauill is against him I cannot now be much offended with you for casting so many false things vpon Caluin and Luther when you are not ashamed so palpably to bely Castalio And that you say next touching the Reuelation is much like to the rest of your cauils In it say you Luther and Brentius Praefat in Apoâ—al lib. 3. cap. 24. cap. 39. and Kemnisius find I know not what lacking What is the meaning of this They find somewhat lacking do they reiect it do they disallow it you cannot say so therefore you speake faintly and diffidently They find somewhat lacking Howsoeuer if you will reade Eusebius you shall vnderstand that in it many things were found lacking and that it was not receiued of all yea plainly reiected of many But what is this to vs when as you cannot deny wee haue receiued this booke and do no lesse reuerence the mysteries that are in it then your selues and perhaps it had fitted your turne well if this booke had either perished or been of no credit at all for it doth so liuely paint out your Pope your purple whore in her colours that it cleerely discouereth to all men who is Antichrist Haue you yet any thing more against Luther Praefat. in nouum Testamentum Luther say you casteth a boue among the foure Euangelists and preferring S. Pauls Epistles farre before the three former Gospels in the end concludeth that the only Gospell of S. Iohn from henceforth is to be taken for the gay the true and the principall Gospell Luther indeed preferreth the Gospell of Iohn before the other three because he setteth downe the Acts of Christ more briefly and his Sermons more fully Now a Gospell consisteth rather in heauenly doctrine then in the history of things done Yet he denies not but that the other Gospels are well set out true and very excellent and farre is he from esteeming this the only gay and true Gospell Now this very point you speake of heere I find also in the preface of the first Epistle of S. Peter And I would intreate the Christian reader to take thorough notice of this thing so shall he easily perceiue both Luthers integritie and Campians cauilling First Luther teacheth what a Gospell is and writeth that a Gospell signifieth nothing else But the preaching and publishing of the grace and mercy of God by the Lord Christ merited and purchased to vs by his death He that either preacheth or writeth this grace and mercy of God in Christ he as Luther affirmeth teacheth the Gospell And therefore not the foure Euangelists only haue taught the Gospell but also all the Apostles haue done so too and especially Saint Paul Saint Peter in their Epistles And moreouer he affirmeth that of all those they are the best m DVR VVhat Scripture teacheth vs that be is an Euangelist which teacheth iustificatio by faith only Jf any then Luther was the best Euangelist WHIT. pag. 125. I can recken you vp many but these may suffice Esay 52 7. Rom. 10.15 Now peace â—iseth of our reconciliation with God and remission of sinnes which things faith only layes hold on Rom. 5.1 2 Cor. 5 19. Rom. 4 4. And this matter S. Paul principally in his Epistles to the Romans and Galathians hath fully and plainly handled and not Luther so much DVR But the Angell tauâ—ht no such thing Luk. 2.10 WHIT. pag 126. If you had looked to the next verse you should haue found that the Angell did teâ—ch as much in effect Euangelists who haue therein specially laboured to teach iustification by faith in Christ alone for this is the summe of the Gospell And hereupon he concludeth that the Epistles of Paul may more fitly be called the Gospell then those things Matthew Marke and Luke haue written for that he doth more fully plentifully decipher to vs the grace of God in Christ then those three whose history is for the most part spent in the declaration of the Acts and Miracles of Christ And this is the true cause wherfore he preferred the Gospell of S. Iohn and the Epistles of S. Paul before the three other Gospels whereby he neither casteth a bone among the Euangelists nor goeth about to make the Apostles partakers of his brawlings neither hath said any thing either frowardly or preposterously for why I pray you may we not say that S. Paul hath more cleerely and excellently described the power of the Crosse of Christ in his Epistles then any of the Euangelists in their historie when as by it the authoritie of the historie of the Gospell is nothing disparaged And now I doubt not but I haue sufficiently defended Luthers innocency against your rayling and outragious saucines But yet againe you assault
WHIT. pag 272. It the Arrians or any other heretike can proue the doctrine of their Churches out of the holy Scriptures they may answere the same which we doe for euery Church which holdeth the Apostles doctrine may professe that all cities village◠〈◊〉 which were religous were seasoned with their doctrine for in the Apostles time all Churches all cities all townes euery family embraced the same faith and religion which we now professe After that by little and little the purity of doctrine n DVR Tell me then from whom and in what age any doctrine of our profession was brought into the Church WHIT. pag. 277. The motion of the Sunne is so very swift that we may see it hath moued though we cannot discerne the mouing of it so such is the mystery of your iniquity that I well perceiue by the Scriptures your doctrines are not Apostolicall but the time when and the manner how they were brought in is not much to our purpose And it were too long to tell all yet heare some Your Romish Bishop a long time together was but equall to other Bishops thâ—ugh much was giuen to him for the excellency of that Church After the Christian world was diuided into foure Prouinces when he became the chiefe of the Patriarkes after this he began to challenge authority ouer other Churches and for that purpose counterfeited the Councell of Nice but he was repressed by the African Councell Then Gregory the great greatly inueyed against Iohn of Constantinople because he sought the name of vniuersall Bishop and for that ambition called him the forerunner of Antichrist Lastly Boniface the eight with a great summe obtained that honor of Phocas the Parricide And since that hee grew to that height that hee made not only Churches and Kings but the Christian Emperour himselfe to kisse his feete But see another example Time was when there were no images in Churches As that of Epiphanius proueth who rent a vaile in peeces because there was in it an image of Christ or of some Saint But in time they were receiued into the Church but no honor giuen them yet after that good Bishops brake them and cast them out againe as Gregory writeth that Serenus the Bishop of Massilia did whom he thus checketh for it In that you forbad them to be worshipped wee commend you but that you brake them we reprehend you Gregor regist lib. 7. Epist. 9. Lastly the second Nicene Councell decreed that they were not to be broken yea that they were religiously to be worshipped And thus hath it succeeded in other things as S. Paul did foretellâ—e saying The mysterie of iniquitie doth alreadie worke 2. Thess 2.7 began to be corrupted and diuers superstitions spread far and neare though the holy Fathers did as much as they could resist 2. Thess 2.7 vntill that mystery of iniquitie which tooke rooting in the very Apostles time spread it selfe o DVR VVhat can be spoken or imagined more wicked and impious WHIT. pag. 278. Then prophesied S. Paul impiously when he did so â—â—â—ell of a departing and that Antichrist should sit in the Temple of God Is this any other then that the mysterie of iniquitie should spread it selfe ouer the Church by all the parts of the Church and at length possessed it wholy Yet Antichrist that man of sinne could neuer preuaile so farre but a great multitude of the Saints remained and those whose names were written in the booke of life did vtterly abhorre all those filthie and wicked superstitions of Antichrist For in the Church of Rome it selfe euen in the worth times of it yet many were euer found who worshipped the God of their Fathers and kept themselues vnpolluted with that horrible Idolatrie And this can histories of all times witnesse which I could now recite if it were needful and reckon vp to you many houses villages townes cities and countries where Christ had many and populous Churches The p DVR This is very false for in the FloreÌ„tine Councell the Emperour Paleolus together with the Grecians and Armenians freely acknowledged the Pope to be the Vicar of Christ and imbraced the Romane faith yea and at this day they dissent from vs in few things as Icremy the Patriarke of Constantinople hath plainly written WHIT pag. 279. Why are they then of you accounted Schismatickes or vvhy obey they not the Pope why came they not to the Councell of Trent the Pope by al meanes hath sought to haue theÌ„ subiect to him but they stil coÌ„temne him to his no small griefe It is true the Emperour the Patriarke and a multitude of Bishops came to the FloreÌ„tine CouÌ„cel They agreed vvith theÌ„ in many things â—â—â—hers they dissented your TraÌ„substantiation they vtterly renouÌ„ced At that time Iesaphus their Patriarke suddenly died Eugenius the Pope instantly vrged a nevv election They denied to make any till they came to Constantinople See you not hovv vvell they agree I haue a booke of yours not of Ieremies neither vvill a small thing make me beleeue it is his for both the Grecianâ— and particularly he hath giuer great approbation of our Churches as vve find it in his vvorkes published both in Greeke and Latin Greeke Church could neuer yet be brought to ioyne it self to your Church and it is 〈◊〉 opposite to you as euer our Church was And yet you so forge these things as if the Pope of Rome long agoe had had the whole world vnder his subiection Vntill that vnhappy Monke as you say by his incestâ—â—â—â— marriage had defloured a Nunne dedicated to God by 〈◊〉 soleâ—â—â—◠〈◊〉 or vntill that quarrelling Swâ—â—â— had câ—â—spired against his country or that infamous â—â—â—â—gate had vndertaken an vsurped authority in Geâ—â—â—â— So Campian go on to raile and reuile euery good man powre out the gall of your bitternes seeing you haue vndertaken to spend all your venemous darts vpon them Luthers name is written in the book of life and his memory shal euer be sacred among all good men and your reproaches shall not be able to pearce or wound him It is a true saying that a false repreach pierceth not the skinne you call him Monke your selfe is but a Frier now Monkes were euer accounted more honest then Friers But he by incestuous marriage deâ—â—oured 〈◊〉 Nomâ—â—â— dedicated to God by solemne vow q DVR But you goe against S. Paul who directly denounced damnation to those who will marry hauing broken their first saith which is vnderstood by all the Fathers of violating the vow of single life by incestuous marriages WHIT. pag. 281. But how proue you that the Apostle vnderstaÌ„deth by that faith the vow of virginity Nay the scope of the place sheweth vs the contrary for he forbiddeth that younger widdowes whom he perswadeth to marry should be taken into that office only such as were threescore yeares old who may well abstaine from marriages follow this calling Now if they be not of this age he sheweth
hasted into the Gourt hauing no promise from the Prince to rest vpon But Campian flie you rather to the Indians that you may take a suruey of your Popes new Prouince for our most wise Prince desires no such guests but banisheth you as farre as she can from her But now at length you returne thither whence you haue digressed and gloriouslie conclude this poynt concerning Councels saying The generall Councels make all for me the first last and middle You haue gotten an easie and speedie victorie I am almost perswaded that you are become another Caesar Vâ—ni vidi vici I came I sawe I ouercame but this is not to dart your Iaueling which you say is looped for the purpose I see words as it were tied together with strings or rather franticke speeches but as yet I discerne no speare either a Iauelin or a thongue or strength or which I rather beleeue all these are wanting vnto you Surely we of the Vniuersities Campian doe greatly desire to trie how skilfully you haue learned to tosse your speare and we hope it will come to passe that you being pierced with our darts will at length know and acknowledge your audacious temeritie and slothfull ignorance of this fight EDMVND CAMPIAN The fifth Reason which is the Fathers AS that famous Sirname of Christians increased first in a Act. 1â— Antioch so b 1. Cor. 12. Ephes 4.1 Cor. 14. Doctors that is very deepe Diuines and Prophets that is most famous Preachers first flourished there Our Lord himselfe prouided for his flocke in time to come such a sort of c Matth. 13.23 Scribes and wise men as were experienced in the kingdome of God bringing forth both old new things that is hauing God still both in Christ and Moses in the new and old Testament How mischieuous an act is it to expel with rebuke these men which were giuen vs by God for a speciall benefit The Aduersarie hath * This is false for we neuer hissed out any learned scribe expelled them For what cause for that if they had stood vpright he of necessity had fallen downe So soone as I throughlie perceiued that without any more adoo I desired to make not that flourishing fight which the common sort of people vse when they contend one with another in the open streetes but that seuere and sharpe combate by which we buckle one with another in your Philosophy schooles foot by foot man by man close ioyned together If we may once come to the Fathers the field is fought the wager wonne on our side For they are all ours assure as Gregory the 13. is a most louing Father to all the Churches children For to d S. Dion Areo pag. de quo vide Adon Treu. in Martyrel Adon. Turon Syng Suid. Metap omit diuers places which here and there dispersed being gathered together out of the auncient writings of the Fathers do very fitly and plainelie fortifie our faith we haue their whole bookes which of set purpose do expresly and copiously paint out liuely that selfe same Euangelicall religion which wee maintaine What orders of heauenly powers what sacrifices what solomne rites doth that two-fold Hierarchy of the Martyr S. Denys make knowne vnto vs That matter touched c Coment in 1.13 17. Deut. Item in cap. â—ab Luther so nigh the quicke that he affirmed this blessed mans writings to be most like to dreames and most pernicious f Dial. 5. 11. Caussaeus an obscure vpstart in Fraunce following the steppes of his Father Luther blushed not to tearme this Apostle S. * This Denys is counterfeice and forged Denys borne in a noble countrie an old dotard g Cent. 2. cap. 10. Inst lib. 1. cap. 13 num 29. The Magdeburgeans which lately set forth the Ecclesiasticall historie in Centuries were greatly grieued at S. * This Ignatius is counterfeite Ignatius so was Caluin also Insomuch that these bench whistlers pried out certaine foule blemeshes and vnsauorie speeches in his Epistles In these mens conceits also S. Ireneus writ one foolish toy and S. Clement who was author of the booke called Stromatum yeelded out of his works cockle and dregges And the residue h Cent. 2. cap. 5. vide Cent. 1. lib. 2. cap. 10. Seqq. of the Fathers of this age which were in very deed * They were Apostolike men yet they did not commit to writing all the things the Apostles did Apostolike men left vnto their posteritie blasphemous and monstrous doctrine In i Lib. de Prascript contra Haâ— Tertullian they greedily catch at that fault which being told therof by vs they with vs also detest But let them call to mind the booke which he writ de Praescriptionibus wherwith the heretikes of our time had so sound a blow was neuer hither to reprehended by the Church How sufficientlie and euidently hath * This Hyppolitus is counterfeite Hyppolitus k Orat. de consum Secul Bishop of Portua foreshewed the raigne of Luthers heresies which was a strong pillar in Antichrists building And for that cause they call him amost childish scrible a masker That l Iuel c. causs Dial. 8. 11. criticall French man Caussaeus and the m Cent. 3. cap. 4. Magdeburgeans do call S. Cyprian who was the flower and honor of Africke a blocke head a man cast out of Gods sight a deprauer of the true doctrine of Penance why what hath he done he hath writ for sooth one booke of Virginity and another of those that are Relapsed and certaine treatises of the vnity of the Church yea such Epistles also vnto Cornelius Bishop of Rome that except this blessed Martyr be disgraced Peter Martyr the Vermillian and all his confeder aâ—s must bee taken for worse then adulternous Church-robbers And lest I should stand too long vpon particularties aft the Fathers of that age are n Cent. 3. cap. 4. generally * This is false for none doe condemne or reiect the Fathers of this age condemned as men that haue corrupted wonderfully the sincere doctrine of Penance Hoâ— I pray you the Austerity for sooth of the o Canones Poenitentiâ— veâ—eres Canons which at that time was vsed doth highly displease this plausible sect which are fitter for Chambers then for Churches and is accustomed to tickle sensuall eares and to so â—cushions to euery elbow wherein I say wherein hath the next age offended forsooth S. Chrysostome and other Fathers of that time haue fouly darkened iustification by faith only S. Gregory Nazianzen whom auncient writers for honor sake haue Sirnamed Theologus 1. the Diuine by Caussaeus iudgement was but a q Dia. 6.7.8 brabler and knew not what to say S. Ambrose was bewitched of an euill spirit S. r Beza in Act. Apost ca. 23. Stancha li. de Trin. Hierome is as * This which concerneth S. Hierome is all false deeply damned in hell as the diuell himselfe
because he was iniurious to the Apostle a blasphemer a naughty man a wicked fellow Gregorie Massonius esteemeth more of one Caluin then of an hundred Augustines a hundred is but a few Å¿ Lib. cent Henrie 8. Reg. Augâ— Martin Luther careth not a button if there were against him a thousaÌ„d Augustines a thousand Cyprians a thousand Churches I thinke it will be to no purpose to wade any further in this matter for who may maruell if they that thus raile against these worthy men haue also been saucy against Optatus Athanasius Hilarius both Cyrils Epiphanius Basill Vincentius Fulgentius Leo and Gregorie the Romane And yet if there may be any iust defence of an vniust cause I do not deny but the Fathers haue wheresoeuer you reade in their workes such matter as may cause the Aduersarie to take pepper in the nose so long as they follow their owne humours For they that cannot away with prescript daies of abstinence how is it likely that they can abide S Basill S. Gregorie Nazianzene S. Leo and S. Chrysostome who haue set forth in print g zâ—ch 13. Praef. in cent 5. very godly sermons concerning Lent and Ember daies as things vsually at that time obserued among Christian people Can those men chuse which haue sold their soules for riches bodily pleasure daintie fare and fine apparrell but beare deadly hatred to S. Basill S. Chrysostome S. Hierome and S. Augustine whose excellent bookes of the order rule and vertuous life of * But these Monkes were most vnlike to ours Monkes are vsually in euery mans band May they that haue intruded seruill will into man that haue cut off all Christian funerals that haue set on fire the reliques of Saints continue friendship with S. Augustine who hath penned three whole bookes of mans * But in these bookes he doth not establish freewill freewill t Lib. 22. de Ciuit. Dei cap. 8. ser de diuers 34. sequent one booke of care to be taken for the dead one long chapter of that his noble worke De ciuitat Dei concerning miracles wrought at the Churches Chappels and sepulchers of holy Martyrs and certaine Sermons of the same matter Can such as measure faith by their own captiousnes refraine from anger towards S. Augustine of whose penning there is extant a notable o Cont. epist Man quam vocant fundam c. 4. Epistle against Manachie wherein he confesseth that for his faith he will cleaue vnto * Yet in that very place Augustine preferred truth before all these Antiquitie vnity continuall succession and to the Church which by prescription alone challengeth amoÌ„g so many heresies the title of Catholike u Li. 1. cont Paâ—men Optatus * This Optatus is an old Father newly printed Bishop of Miletan confuteth such as tooke part with Donatus by the Catholike coÌ„munity Their wickednes he accuseth by the decree of the Pope Melchiades he reproueth x Lib. 2. their heresie by the succession of the Bishops of Rome He displaieth their y Lib. 3. madnes by their dafiling both of the blessed Eucharist and also of the holy oyle He abhorreth their z Lib. 6. sacriledge in breaking downe of holy Altars whereupon Christs body is laid and also in polluting of the Chalices which contained Christs blood I would gladly know what they thinke of Optatus who is commended by S. a Aug. lib. 1 cont Parmen De Vnit. ca. 16. lib. 3 de Doct. Christ c. 40. Augustine as a worthy and Catholike Bishop not inferiour to S. Ambrose and S. Cyprian and whom S. b Fulgent li. 2. ad Monim Vide epist. Synod Alex. ad Feli. 2. Fulgentius also recordeth to haue been an holy man and faithfull Interpretor of S. Paul not vnlike vnto S. Augustine and S. Ambrose They reade S. Athanasius Creed in their Churches Do they for all that beare him any good will who hath highly commended as an auncient writer in an exact booke S. Antony that hermite of Aegypt and also hath humbly appealed with the Councell of * A counterfeit Epistle Alexandria vnto the Sea Apostolike of S. Peter How often doth S. Prudentius in his Hymnes pray vnto the blessed Martyrs what Hymnes doth he endite in their praise how often doth he worship the King of Martyrs at their ashes and bones will they allow of this man S. Hierome in the defence of Reliques and honor of Saints writeth against Vigillantius and for the preheminence of virginitie against Iouinian will they tolerate this An high solemne feast was kept by c Vide Epist de Ambros ad Epist It al. Fom 3. Silâ—â— tiusdem Amb. Epist. 85. Item Serm. 91. S. Ambrose in the honor of his Patrones Geruasius and Protasius to the great reproach of the Arrians which act the holy d August lib. 22. de ciuie Dei cap. 1. Fathers haue highly commended and God himselfe adorned with many miracles will they be friends with S. Ambrose c Gregâ—r Tur. lib. de gloria Mar. cap. 46. Metaphrast S. Gregorie the great that Apostle of * Gregorie the great was neither our Apostle nor an Apostle at all ours is flat on our side and for that title is hated of our Aduersaries whom Caluin in his fury doth deny to be brought vp in the f Iust. lib. 1. cap. 11. n. 5. schoole of the holy Ghost because hee called holiâ— Images the books of vnlearned people A whole day would not be enough for me to reckon all the Epistles Sermons Homilies Orations Treatises and disputations of the old Fathers wherein of set purpose both grauely and eloquently they haue confirmed our Catholike doctrine So long as these bookes of these Fathers shall be sold at the Stationers shop in vaine are the hauens and sea coasts watched so narrowly to no purpose are houses coffers and chests straightly searched to no end are penall proclamations set vpon so many gates For none of our late writers neither Harding nor Sanders nor Allen nor Stapleton nor Bristol do more vehemently inueigh against these their new found dreames then those Fathers do whom I haue named which things when I well considered my courage began to rise I had a desire to fight in which conflict on which side soeuer the aduer sarie shall start except he yeeld due honor vnto God he shall haue the foyle if he allow of the Fathers he is caught if he disallow of them he is no body Thus it fell out when I was a yong student at Oxford * This word Bishop Iewel did neuer eat neither wil we euer renouÌ„ce Iohn Iewel the captaine of English Caluinists challenged in most bragging sort all Catholikes at Paules Crosse in London vrging and alledging like an hypocrite all the Fathers that euer flourished within sixe hundred yeares after Christ. Certeine worthy men which then for religion liued as banished men in the Vniuersity of Lonan thoug through the iniquity of the time they
gainsay that this Denys cannot be the partie you report him to be You then haue no reason to be angrie with Luther or Caussaeus if they handled this a DVR You say that Denyâ— is counterfeite but proue it by no reason But Origen Nazianzene Zophâ—ine Archbishop of Hierusalem Damascene Nicephorus Euthemius Dionysius Archbishop of Alexaâ—dria acknowledge his bookes him to haue been a disciple of S. Paul WHIT. pag. 357. But I say that Antiquitie was altogether ignorant of his bookes which could not be if they bad been written of Denys Arcâ—pagita for Eusâ—biu diligently searching out and setting downe all auncient writers and all thâ—â—r bookes and Epistles which they writ mentioneth not â—im nor his workes neither doe any 〈◊〉 the Greeke and Latin Fathers speake of him But who can thinke that the bookes of a disciple of Saint Paul should be vnknowne and not highly esteemedâ— of all in those daies Besides he citeth the Epistles of Igâ—â—tius as also the Gospell and Reuelation of S. Iohn which must needs be written diuers yeares after the death of Denys Arâ—â—pagita hee writeth an Epistle to Polycarpus and calleth him a ruler of the Church when at his detah Polycarpus must needs be very yong for Denys was slaine Anno Dom 96. Polycarpe died 1â—6 being but 86. yeares of age he calleth Timothy his sonne who was conuerted before euer that Arâ—â—pagita vvas he acknowledgeth that his maisters had their learning from the Apostles doth he not thereby deny himselfe S. Paules scholer finally the Church Hierarchie and all the names of the officers reckoned vp by him were neuer knowne in the Apostles time For your authors they are all new and late writers but two The first Origen whom Erasmus denieth Annot. in Act. 17. once to haue made mâ—otion of him in all his writings neither euer doth Nazianzene counterfeit somewhat roughly and censured him freely Where you say Caluin and the writers of the Centuries were offended with Ignatius Ignatius I confesse they had iust cause of offence If heretikes alleaged him to bee a patron of a wicked and detestable opinion Caluin might with reason and discretion reiect him how aptly and truly he was by them alleaged I cannot tell let them look to it Howsoeuer it be the truth ought not by his authoritie to be borne downe whose credit is little if any at all you are not ignorant what the iudgement of all the learned is those Epistles of Ignatius Eusebius indeed makes mention of some of his Epistles and Hierome of others but now many more goe vnder his name which they haue not mentioned Hierome b DVR If diuers of those things there cited out of him bee not to bee found hovv follovveth it that those works of his vvhich are extant bee forged and noue of his WHIT. pag. 360. From thence verely it will follow that his works are not perfect yea many things are found in his Epistles which are incredible to haue been taught in those daies as the strict keeping of Lent and fasting vpon the Sabbath daies yea it was but latelie that these Epistles were printed and published and so of the lesse credit and authority also reports a saying of his Hierâ—n Dial. 3. con Pel. Theod. Dial. 3. and Theodoret another which are not found in those Epistles which are caried about what would you haue more Gratian himselfe fauours not ouermuch this your Ignatius You see then of how obscure suspected and vncertaine reputation are these two which you place in the forefront of your armie You are offended that the Censors as you call them vpbraide Irenaeus as in some thing fantasticall We vse not to speake reprochfully of Irenaus whom we confesse to haue been both holy and learned but what is this to the purpose If Iraneus haue written something foolishly must be therefore by and by be wholy yours And if some where we haue noted his opinion as not true and sound doe we therefore reiect all his works Is this your manner of disputing Campian is this your skirmishing are you of opinion that neuer any word passed from Irenaeus vnaduisedly or which might iustly be tearmed vnreasonable Then tell c DVR You that acknovveledge and admit nothing but the Scriptures can by no argument confute this errâ—r WHIT. p. 362. What may worse beseeme a liuine then thus to speake What thinke you of these places Christ when he began to preach the Gospell was about thirtie yeares of age Luke 3.23 After his Baptisme Iohn maketh mention of three Pasleouers and that in the third he was put to death Is not the time then very plainely set downe and indeede what can be more plaine and casie Hence we may obserue that the Fathers haue plainely erred where you would hardly beleeue any man could erre me Campian Lib. 2. cap. 39.40 how Christ preached onely one yeare yet was baptized the thirtieth yeare of his age and died the fiftieth what shall we beleeue that Christ taught onely one yeare and that the fortieth yeare will you denie this to be a very new strange and almost franticke noueltie Besides that many write Irenaeus to haue been one of them whom the Fathers call Millenaries thinke you that was not a franticke opinion And can you doubt of Clemens whether hee hath sometimes sowne Tares what call you that where he denieth that Christ indeed did either hunger or thirst Againe that Christ taught but one yeere which he had of Irenaus Againe Clement Stromat lib. 3. idem lib. 1. idem lib. 5. that the Philosophers in hel expected the comming of Christ being taught by owne mouth beleeued Wil you deny those to be Tares and many of this kind are his to be found in the worthiest writers of that age If you denie it bring me one whom I will not conuince to haue erred by your owne iudgement You dare not say Tertul. we haue wronged Tertullian But you will vs to remember that the book of Prescriptions was neuer taxed which for ought I remember neuer was though I confesse that writing which you name is notable in which many things are written very diuinely against your Church d DVR But you tell vs not any one particular whereby this may appeare WHIT. pag. 365. I suppose you neuer read this booke or else you would not make doubt of it Is any thing more against your traditions then that hee pronounceth a curie to them that shall bring any doctrine but the selfe same which the nations receiued from the Apostles and they from Christ himselfe And that men cannot be otherwise perswaded of the things of faith then from the writings of faith when he gathereth from Christ sending of his Apostles that no Ministers are else to be receiue but such as Christ hath ordeined when whatsoeuer is later brought is forraine and false when he wâ—â—â—eth that faith must be built and borne vp vpon the writings of the Law and of the Prophets
offended with Basil Naziancene Leo and Chrysostome which haue published excellent Sermons of Lent Christ ordeined no set and ordinary fasts in the Gospell k DVR Who hath but so much as saluted the Fathers and knoweth not this to be salfe for the obseruation of Lent is most auncient and ordained by the Apostles WHIT. pag. 371. I deny it not to be most auncient but not instituted by the Apostles for Apollonius writeth that Montanus first made lawes for let and certaine fasts and Tertullian when hee was become a Montanist writeth as much in his booke wherein he defendeth the fasts of Montanus Againe the Apostles neuer put any religion in choise and change of meats Rom. 14.17 Coll. 2 16. Tit. 1 1â— and so ordeined not Lene Lastly the Churches of the Apostles differed much in this fast both in their times in their kinds of meat as Eusebius â—ocrates record which would neuer haue bin if it had bin Apostolical at least as Papists do affirme who take in for a truth that those Churches would faithfully persist in the Apostles decrees Lent was appointed long after and the manner of obseruing it in those times was not one the same in all Churches We both allow and vse publike and Christian fasts which are fitted to the time and the Churches occasions as for your appointed and yearely solemne fasts we do with good reason reiect them because they are full of superstition and iniurious vnto Christian liberty Our iudgement of fasting is the same which Augustine hath taught August Epist 86. I find it not set downe in any Commandement of the Lord or his Apostles what daies we ought to fast what not Augustine then knew not these your set yearely ceremonies of fasting not your Lenten fast which hath a certeine time and number of daies prescribed Further you say they that haue set their soules to sale for gold lust excesse and worldly ostentation how can they be but most opposite to Basil Chrysostome Hierome and Augustine whose bookes of the profession of Monkes are in euery mans hands what will you censure all to be couetous lustfull gluttonous or ambitious that are not Monkes backe with that foot you were best for feare of your head for neither the Pope nor his Cardinals and Bishops hold it either necessary or conuenient for them to lay aside their abundant wealth continuall pleasures their dainty fare their kingly honor and thrust themselues into a Monasterie whosoeuer liueth after their fashion cannot be well affected to Basil nor any man that is holy l DVR VVhen you are ouercome by the truth you slander our liues and speake euill of our persons WHIT. pag. 377. I do not slander you nor detract from you the world hath vnderstood long agoe what manner of men you vvere If you be grovvne better I should be glad of it But I knovv men haue iudged othervvise of this order and such as did not hate your Monasticall life For the Romish Cardinals and Priors did vvrite thus to the Pope himself There is another abuse amongst the orders of religious men for many are so deformed and out of order that they are a great scandale to the people and hurt much by their example VVe thinke that all orders ought to be abolished For they are altogether so drowned in sensuality and excesse making themselues drudges vnto their ambitions banquets and delights And to conclude in the whole course of their liues so behauing themselues as becommeth better sensuall and voluptuous persons proceeding out of the gardens of Epicures then graue teachers out of Christs Schoole Who knoweth not that the whole world crieth shame vpon you and hath done continually and most deseruedly you for all that blush not to lay those things to our charge which are well inough knowne to bee your owne fault your Prelates and Monkes whose goodly order and straite rule of seuere discipline you report differ as much from other men as the Tarrentines were wont to affirme that they excelled all others who giuing themselues wholy ouer to pleasures while the most tooke great paines and alwaies did something whereby to liue thought their life the only true life Such is and hath bin your life that others must seeme not to liue if that be to liue which you haue esteemed But what need I answere you any more of fasting and Monkish orders which haue not one Monke in your whole Church any thing resembling those of auncient time neither do you obserue the old manner of fasting but you goe on and vpbraide vs with fouler matters They that haue brought a bondage vpon mans will which haue taken away Christian funerals which haue burned Saints reliques can they say you be well pleased with Augustine we Campion haue wronged no Saints we haue neither burned their reliques nor taken away their funerals m DVR Therefore you haue taken away the reliques of the Saints and the funerals of Christians as superstitions and iniurious to the maiestie of God WHIT. pag. 370. Are you so vvithout iudgement that you cannot distinguish betvvixt things and the superstitious vse of them It is not these not any comely buriall vve dislike but Popish pompcions funerals and impious vvorshipping of reliques only we could not suffer any prophane superstition iniurious to the Maiestie and glorie of God and for this we haue the direction of God himselfe being our patterne whom we follow and Augustine also herein consenteth with vs But we haue captiuated the will of man and then you say how can we be well affected vnto Augustine well inough why not for say you he writ three bookes of free will A most witles and ridiculous collection Augustine writ three bookes of freewill ergo Augustine affirmeth that men haue freewill If that reason be currant then this also Augustine writ a booke of two soules against the Manichees also a booke of lying another of the quantity of the soule ergo Augustine defendeth two soules in a man ergo he praised lying ergo he attributeth greatnes quantity to the soule I pray you what difference is there I graunt Augustine writ those bookes you mention but they ouerthrow not our opinion who affirme that the will of man is in bondage if euer you had perused those bookes you would neuer haue affirmed it nor once named the bookes in this matter Augustine writ these bookes against the Manichees wherein he disputeth not of mans freewill which is the point in controuersie but of the cause of sinne which proceeded from freewill and he entituled those bookes of freewill because in them he intendeth to shew that the originall and beginning of sinne is to be found in mans freewill not in God This you might easily haue learned out of his retractations for thus he writeth Retract lib. 1.1 q. The discourse was vndertaken for them that deny sin to haue his originall from the free action of our will affirming that from this
would follow that God himselfe the author of nature is culpable And so proceedeth vtterly denying that he had any purpose in those bookes to speake of that will which is made free by Gods grace And whatsoeuer in these books passed his pen which seemed to fauour the Pellegians then Patrons of freewill as you are now all that he carefully collecteth out of the whole worke and cleareth it from their cauils Haue we any cause to be offended with Augustine which in this question is not against vs And that you may plainly perceiue how indiscreetly you alledged these bookes of free-will marke what hee writeth of the will of man in those same bookes n DVR Wherto tendeth this but to bewray your ignorāce all Catholikes beleeue that the will of man though free is able to do nothing to merit heauen by but by the grace of God And you are ignorant that the freedome of will consisteth in this that by no necessitie it is carried to either part WHIT. pag. 382. Pelagians in former time beleeued as much But as Pelagius affirmed that the will was only helped with grace and not made good by grace so you teach that no new will is infused but the natural is helped and as it were vnloosed by grace which is not much from Pelagianisme for both of you defend that the liberty of wil remaineth in mans corrupt nature that it need not be giuen him from aboue but only by the helpe of grace to be drawne out of certeine difficulties in which the corruption of sinne had left it And as for my ignorance I confesse it and thinke it more learned then your knowledge for if those who do things necessarily do them not freely then neither God nor the diuel worketh not freely for God worketh well and the diuell euill necessarily So you see necessity is not opposed to freewill for not necessity but force and compulsion taketh away the freedome of the will Hold thou fast saith Augustine this principall of piety Delibere Arbit 61.2 cap. 20. that no good thing happens vnto thee either when thou thinkest or vnderstandest or any way imaginest which is not from God And this was Augustines constant opinion of freewill after that being stirred by the Pellagians he throughly vnderstood the question viz. that he iudged it to be vtterly lost and gone o DVR The meaning of the place is this that man so lost his freewill that be lost himselfe yet so as no man in his right wits will deny but he is a man still WHIT. pag. 384. You graunt as much as we desire for as man lost himselfe and yet remained a man but not such as he was good iust holy indued with perfection but cleane changed so the free will of man was lost not that no wil remained but that it was changed from good to euill for we say not there is remaining no freewill at all but no good wil as we affirme not there is no man at all remaining but no good man Man saith he by abusing his free-will lost both it and himselfe Enchir. 3. But yet further you vrge Augustine against vs for say you they that make their captious deuises the rule of their faith must not they bee offended with Augustine which hath an excellent Epistle against Manicheus An Epistle Campian do you call it it was euer accounted a booke but what is there in that Epistle as you call it against vs in which he professeth himselfe to agree with Antiquity vnity perpetuall succession and with that Church which alone amongst so many heresies hath attained vnto the name Catholike by prescription We also agree with that Church which hath all these And yet to these must be added as Augustine saith in the same place sincere wisdome and truth else all the other bind vs not for they are of no value without that wisdome but this wisdome and truth though without these is of it selfe to bee preserred before all things so saith Augustine Cont. Fundam cap. 4. if the truth appeare manifestly so as it cannot be doubted of it alone is more to be esteemed then p DVR Augustine affirmeth that these cannot be without the truth WHIT. pag. 387. Nay Augustine sheweth the contrarie for if truth cannot be separated from these he had spoken very vnfitly when he said he preferred the truth before all these If you can take or rightly challenge the possessiō of truth in the next place you may inquire of Antiquity Vnity Succession all those reasons that keepe me in the Catholike Church Thus then Augustine setteth more by the truth it selfe alone and sincere wisdome then all those things you mention Antiquity Vnity Succession and we perceiuing this truth and wisdome so manifestly in our Churches that none that will see the truth can doubt whether we hold the truth or no do willingly giue you free liberty to bragge whilest you list of antiquity vnity succession without the truth There is then as you see no cause why we should be angry with Augustine either now or before But at length you leaue Augustine and call out Optatus Bishop of Miletum of whom you say you desire to know what our opinion is I verily thinke he was a good Father and very like vnto Augustine and I take the things to be true which many worthy men haue said in his commendation But he disproued the Donatists by the communion of the Catholike Church Why should he not or what doth that cōcerne vs Augustine also obserued the same course and it was a good motiue that the communion of the Church should be obiected to the schismaticall Donatists which seditiously without cause separated themselues from the Church But wee deny your Church to be Catholike and therefore you cannot thus conuince vs though Optatus might therby confute the Donatists It must first appeare that it is the Church before we can be conuicted of schisme The q DVR So indeed Caluin answereth but it will not serue your turne for Opratus proueth himself to be in the Catholike Church because he ioyned himselfe to Saint Peters chaire WHIT pag. 388. And what call you Peters chaire the externall seate or the succession of Bishops you shall neuer proue it and the contrary I cen easily obiect out of Optatus himselfe Optatus calleth Syritius Bishop of Rome his fellow and the companion of other Bishops who held a sound and Catholike iudgement With all those Syricius agreed in one society and fellowship by their letters sent one to another as witnesses of their consenting in doctrine and lawfull ordination Optatus then proueth that he was a Catholike because he kept the Catholike confession and coniunction with Syrrcius and other Bishops Finally his argument was good against the Donatists who did separate themselues from the communion of the Catholike Church while they consented not with these Churches where the doctrine of the Apostles and a lawfull ordination of Bishops did
the Iewes â—innikeâ— and Idolaters but out of the schooles of Christians which may not be polluted with Images the schoole of the holy Ghost nor found y DVR You shevv your ignorance or impudency vvhen you knovv not or deny that vvhich is euery vvhereto be read among the Fathers as in Theodoret Domasen Augustine Gregory Nissen Metaphrastes Athanasius and others WHIT. pag. 399. These testimonies do rather shew your rashnes desire to deceiue for they are partly faired as that of Gregory Nissen and Athanasius partly not to the purpose by them I vnderstand that Images were made but they proue not that they were placed in the churches worshipped Your reason concludeth not There were Images among the ChristiaÌ„s before the times of Gregory therfore they placed them in their churches to teach the people and to be worshipped of them with holy worship it in the books of the Fathers that were before him and thus at length haue you finished this longe catalogue of the Fathers The reason I would faine know that moued you to go thorough them on this manner For what are you so blockish your selfe to thinke or hope you that any others will like of this kind of reasoning viz. Luther Caluin and their confederates doe write that Irenaus Tertullian Cyprian Chrysostome Augustine Hierome Ambrose Gregory Basil and Naziâ—â—zen do otherwiles erre in some questions in this or that booke and they saw not the true meaning of some Scripture but were sometimes deceiued that is they were men therefore they banish reiect and condemne all these Fathers Is this your meaning Campian why then do you your selues being verie often by plaine authorities of the Fathers coÌ„uinced deny flatly that you are tyed to the authority of any father and from them you appeale to the iudgment of the Church Would you not thinke your self hardly dealt withal if hence I should inferre that you disallow the Fathers whole volumes But this is the issue of your disputation and the marke whereat all this your discourse aymeth namely that because we dislike some things in the Fathers which in their writings cannot be defended therefore we violate all we offer great wrong and reproach to the Fathers we commit a hainous and vnhard-of wickednes Thinke not Campian our Vniuersitie to be so childish that they cannot discerne the indifferencie of our proceeding herein from your vniust calumniation The Fathers wee esteeme highly wee peruse them daily we commend them to the reading of all such as exactly and diligently studie Diuinitie By this meanes we encrease our knowledge and are better furnished with armour of defence against you You are afraide to want time and therefore you omit many things Epistles Sermons Homilies Orations Works Disputations of Fathers by which the Catholikes opinions are confirmed Some fragments perhaps say you throwne in corners which without much paines and wearines you could not collect yet your fellowes of late yeares haue diligently sought out and published Whilest they say you are to be solde at the Stationers so long our mens bookes are in vaine prohibited we are sorry you should write such things as we must of necessitie restraine your bookes are such as it behooueth vs to stoppe their passage vnlesse we would suffer the State to be stirred to sedition the Church in danger of heresie and mens minds filled with cursed opinions For if Magistrates ought carefully to preuent lest the infection of the plague be from other places brought into their cities much more care is to be had that pestilent and pernicious bookes bee nor openly spread abroad out of which simple and vnlearned men doe sucke poyson of deadly error Neither are we the first that haue taken this course You may remember in Queene Maries time that they proceeded by marshall law against all those with whom any of our bookes were found If this were in vs a matter worthie of death so that we were by and by drawne to punishment as men guiltie of high treason and that without any iudâ—â—â—al proceedings small reason haue you to looke that your bookes now should haue such free libertie to bee euery where publikelie solde We take order that the bookes of the holy Fathers are brought vnto vs from euery matte we buie them we haue them in our priuate studies and publike Liberarie a woâ— place them in open view that they be knowns nor onely by face but by dailie familiaricie Where you affirme that neither Sanders nor Harding nor Allen nor Stapleton nor Bristol doe more â—â—gerly inneigh against those dreames then the Fatherd before mentioned you haue added this saying as an ouerplus to the things that went before These your old souldiers haue imployed in this case whatsoeuer either reading or leysure or cunning or wit or diligence or malice could supply vnto them and for all this haue gained nothing and hope you that are not worthy to be compared with these to performe that wherein they haue failed yet you said that thinking of these things your courage increased and you desired the combate I bewaile Campian your rashnes and foolish hardines which will needs take vpon you the patronage of a desperate cause with the vndoubted losse of your credit and safety and I wish that the day may once come wherin you may make triall of your strength in the combate which you desire Iohn Iewel say you challenged the Catholikes when you were a young student calling vpon and desiring the helpe of the Fathers as many as flourished 600. yeares after Christ That worthy man did that he knew himselfe able to performe he had read ouer all the Fathers with speciall iudgement and diligence hee saw how you deceiued the ignorant he had a care to preserue his countrimen from your dangerous error And hereupon without any boasting as you would haue it but trusting only in the power of God and the truth of the cause he calleth forth all the generation of Papists vnto this triall viz. if they could confirme their opinions by the holy Scriptures or by the witnes of Fathers and Councels they should ouercome if they failed they should confesse themselues were vanquished Certeine renowmed men say you liuing as Exiles as Loâ—ane entertaine thâ— offer and allow of the condition Harding was the captaine of these he aduentured himselfe hand to hand in this combate but how worthily performed he the condition Iâ—wel calleth for Fathers Harding produceth certeine Clements Abdies Martials Hippolyes Amphilochytes and others of this rancke Fathers of worshipfull antiquitie If all the auncient Fathers of the Church be as you bragge of your side why should Harding turne his backe so cowardly bringing in for witnesses in a most waighty cause wherin we demaunded the iudgement of antiquitie a company of vpstart bastards I know not fromwhence whom no man before had saluted seene or heard of passing by of purpose the knowne and truly noble Fathers Is this the reuerend antiquity you talke of must wee haue these
fathers themselues For after you had said what you could remember touching the fathers that you might shew you esteemed their sayings as diuine Oracles because you saw that was too slender and that no man would iumpe with you in that point you now indeuour by certaine foundations to fortifie and strengthen the authoritie of the Fathers Now the strength and as it were the bond and sinewes of this disputation is this a DVR Campian doth not dispute so but say he do what reproue you for he speaketh not of one Father but of the consent of all vvho flourished in one age whom Saint Paul saith Christ hath made Pastors and teachers of his Church Eph. 4.11 WHIT. pag. 408. Then as you confesse I swarued not much from his sense But thinke you the reason is of force The auncient Fathers haue diligently read and searched the Scriptures therefore they neuer erred in their interpretation If iâ— hold in the Fathers why not in others vvhich do search the Scriptures as vvell as they vvhich if you once grant you ouerturne your owne cause And though they were Pastors of the Church yet vvere there many other Pastors and teachers of the Church vvho either vvrit nothing at all or their vvritings are perished so that vvhat they deliuered vve possibly cannot knovv vvhat a vaine thing is it then to bragge of the consent of all vvhen you can hardly name tvventy in the most flourishing age that euer vvas vvhose bookes came to our hands Besides the consent of all in one age in no controuersie can you bring against vs except it vvere in the most corrupt ages Lastly the Pastors Christ gaue to his Church vvere men such as might erre and vvho had no promise to be kept from error if at any time they turned aside from the Scriptures The Fathers haue searched the Scriptures most diligently they haue heaped vp store of testimonies out of the holy Scriptures they haue attributed the chiefe place to these therefore wee ought to bee content with their exposition of Scriptures and without sinne wee may desire no better This either is the sense of this place or else there is no sense in it And verely I professe you haue laid these things downe so faintlie and looselie that I can hardlie discerne their scope for what I pray you can bee spoken more loosely The fathers haue diligently laboured to vnderstand the Scriptures therefore in their exposition of them they haue neuer erred But we find many strange differing and dissenting expositions in the Fathers which all may well be false but more then one of them cannot be true I will giue you one example for a thousand b DVR VVe confesse euery Father may errâ— but we deny that all the Fathers of one age did euer fall into any error which vvas contrary to faith WHIT. pag. 412. As if this vvere not a matter of faith vvhether S. Paul lyed or vvhether he ingenuously reproued S. Peter as he professed he did For if S. Paul did it dissemblingly then may it be lavvfull for vs to dissemble and after confirme it vvith a lye both vvhich are contrary to sound doctrine But particular dissentions you stand not vpon you desire to see some generall vvhen you grant euery particular may erre vvill it not follovv that all may But see an example In the Councell of Constantinople held vnder Leo the Pope the Fathers there decreed to abolish Images out of Churches But the Nicene Councell vnder Iren. condemned this Canon yea and by a third Councell held in Germany this decree vvas againe condemned One of these certeinly must needs be deceiued Againe haue you forgotten that Augustine vvith Innocent the Bishop of Rome other Bishops of the Church did thinke it necessary that the Eucharist should be giuen to Infants vvhich error continued a long time in the Church Thinke you these are not points of faith S. Paul writeth Gala. 2.11 that at Antioch hee withstood Peter to his face what a kinde of opposition this was you would know but cannot of your selfe find it out You wonder that Paul would oppose Peter one Apostle another and happely you suspect some mystery may be hid in it you goe to the fathers you enquire of Hierome August Hieron in Epistol and of Augustine two very famous lights of the Latine Church What do they tell you Augustine thinke that S. Paul spoke ingenuously and as he thoughte Hierome that he spoke fainedly If you approue the one you must needs reiect the other for you cannot consent with both Sixe hundred of this kind I could propound vnto you I know how sayth Hierome otherwise to account of the Apostles then of other writers Hieron in Epist. ad Theophilis They euer spâ—â—kâ— the trâ—â—â— these as man haue erred in some things Yet they read the Scriptures they were conuersant in them and spent themselues wholly in meditating vpon them From these you may discerne how your accusation is most vniust and our defence most equall and iust I desire not to diminish the fathers due and worthy commendations so you will confesse they are men extoll them with all the prayses you can to the very heauens where they are now free Denizens I could wish that that which they constantly did either you would do search the Scripture or suffer vs to do then I doubt not but this fight would haue a good issue But the Scriptures which Christ ratified with his owne voice and commended to our diligent search you flie from and abhorre as theeues doe the gallowes you abandon them out of mens sight and yet you haue neuer done searching for you compasse sea and land to find out old traditions and customes long ago dead and buried mens inuentions decrees of Popes the corruptions of Churches fained and forged bookes diriges scrappes dreames and fables but the holy Scripture you touch not at all lest as I suppose they would make against you At length for shame cast away those your trifles which you so busily hunt after and search the Scriptures c DVR VVe allow all to read the Scriptures as many as can vvell and safely do it And then vve account the search good and sound vvhen men are able to interpret them not out of their ovvne heads but by the authority of the auncient Fathers WHIT pag. 415. You shew your good nature that you will not reproue that which is well done But may none else reade the Scriptures but men qualified as you write then very few must spend their labour in them But Christ commanded to search the Scriptures not the opinions and exposition of the Fathers yea and he commaunded all whosoeuer to seeke eternall life and desire to know Christ Joh. 5.39 and not the learned only as Christ hath commaunded Origen in Isas hom 1. and the ancient fathers haue done And would to God as Origen writeth we all would doe that which is written Search the
new Sacraments new sacrifice and new doctrine of religion There hath not been found any one Historiographer either Latin or Greeke neither abroad nor at home which hath vouchsafed so much as to make a little note in his bookes of so notable a matter though it had been neuer so slenderly Wherefore this is a matter manifest enough if the Historie which is a faithfull witnes of antiquity and the life of memory do in many and sundry places copiously entreate and spoake of that faith which we professe and if no History at all since the creation of the world do affirme that that faith which the aduersaries do thrust vpon vs was 〈◊〉 allowed in the Catholike Church then are all the Historiographers on our part and the inuasions of the aduersaries are not friuolous and such as can make no man afraid except it bee first granted that all Christians throughout euery age haue fallen to grosse infidelity and consequently into the deepe pit of hell vntill that Frier Luther committed aduoutrie with the Nunne Katherine Bore WILLIAM WHITAKERS The answere to the seauenth Reason which is the Historie NOw you call vs to Historie the witnes of times and reporter of Antiquity and all that haue taken paines in publishing the Ecclesiasticall Historie their names you set downe and like dumbe showes you carry them in great pompe as though Campian the particular naming of all that haue published any Historie were sufficient for the remembrance and searching out the monuments of Antiquitie What insolent new kind of Logicke is this to recken vp the Historians of the whole world and of particular countries and then conclude they are your owne Haue you of late from aboue procured this priuiledge that whatsoeuer you lay your hands vpon shall by and by become yours we haue long since perused the auncient Chronicles wherein the beginning and proceeding of the Church is set downe and we find not that they fauour you more then vs. If in them be some things against vs many moe and more waightie testimonies they haue against you and such as giue you a deadlie wound else would wee neuer haue collected the Histories of the auncient Church so accuratelie and diligentlie penning them exactlie and distinguishing the seuerall ages and times neither would wee haue published them in the world if they were so contrarie vnto vs as you surmise for who haue taken more paines to finde out or more faithfullie restored the Ecclesiasticall Histories then our men without whose labours many monuments of Antiquitie had been buried in darlinesse We therefore will neuer denie this triall of Antiquitie and seeing you appeale to auncient Histories wee condiscend yet with this caution that we be not tied to those things which were apparantly blemishes in the auncient Church Especially seeing that writers of Histories intending to make a natration of things done doe not so much teach vs what ought to bee done but haue an eye to that which was then performed and by that meanes set downe many things worthie of reprehension rather than imitation and for the most part it happens that Historiographers are possessed with the errors of the times wherein they writ and euer the later writer the more corrupt But here you exclaime that wee seeke euasions and very peruersly you slaunder vs that because wee doe not allowe all wee refuse all They that reforme what is amisse doe not blame the rest that is not faultie Striue while you list Campian and crie out of mazes and labyrinths at length will you nill you by the cares must wee bring you to the iudgement of the Scriptures And herein Campian you very much a DVR And vvhy may not Campian trumph for what impudencie is this to cry out that the Church of Rome is full of innumerable heresies and yet you cannot tell vvhen one of them euer began in vvhat Popes time by vvhat meanes hovv it increased in the Church WHIT. pag. 477. A good cause would be defended by reasons not raylings But doth it follow that the Church of Rome is not corrupt because wee cannot tell the moment of time when it began to be corrupt but being so manifest as it is what need we search the Histories to shew the beginning what I pray if you see a man sicke of the pestilence a citie corrupt with riote and wickednesse a house ruinous and readie to fall a shippe sincking will you deny all these vnlesse one can tell you the time when he began to be sicke the meanes how the city grew corrupt who vvas ovvnet and in vvhat yeare the house grevv ruinous and in vvhat daâ—e the shippe began first to leake And vvhat is the force of your reason and demaund other then this But doe not your owne Histories tell vvhen and by vvhom innouations and corruptions entred see a fevv of them Hee that first vsurped authoritie ouer other Churches vvas Pope Victor after him Zozimus Boniface Celestiue and theâ— successura Pope Syricius first foâ—bad Priests marriages The Manichies first denied the Cup to the people The Nicene Councell first ordained vvorshipping of Images Pope Nicolas the second first taught the bodie of Christ must carnally be handled broken and eaten Pope Jnnocent the third first established the doctrine of Transubstantiation Boniface the third that the Pope vvas the head of all Churches Gregorie the great taught Purgatorie first for a certeine truth The Florentine Councell that the Pope was aboue Councels Jnnocent the third brought in auricular confession If these vvere not sufficient I could produce sire hundred more triumph when you demaund at what time vnder what Bishop by what way and proceeding was a new religion spread ouer the Citie of Rome and the whole world and doe not doubt but that if any change and declining had been many writers would haue made mention of it or diuers or one at the least It is hard for vs to answere at what time neither is it necessarie to set downe the very instant of time All things were not at once ouerturned in the Church of Rome sinne and wickednes came to his height by degrees and by leisure to ripenes the haires of our head are not all gray of a suddaine neither doth any thing suddainely come to his maturitie and the growth of euery thing appeareth long after This is manifest in such things as hauing small beginning goe on forward vnto a greater quantitie vntill they come to perfection you cannot deny but there was a great alteration of Religion in the Church of b DVR It is not hard to knovv the heresies of the Ievves for Philastrius Epiphanius Iosephus haue vvritten of them WHIT pag. 484. It is as easie to know the heresies of Christians being more in the Christian Church then euer vvere in the Church of Ierusalem and of these also haue many bookes been vvritten Ierusalem what then was the change all at once shew vs then how those nouelties entred into the Church what time what way who
any do denie to be good and holy he may well be held blasphemous against the holy Ghost As for that you both faine that we speake these things and also expresse for what cause wee speake them you bewray your wonderfull wisedome which for those things that are not at all can set downe a reason wherefore they be But we doe willingly preach faith and doe easily permit it to bee contemned of you For you that defend nature against grace and doe trust rather to your owne power than to Christs mercie and doe make voide the promises by precepts cannot haue an honourable opinion of faith You neuer keepe your standing Of Sinne. Campian and you begin the battaile like a runnaway For you haue a wandring and vnstable wit as it seemeth You oppose Illyricus to vs againe in the same cause whose testimonie ought not to be of force against vs. For herein I professe my selfe no lesse an aduersarie to him than your selfe I had almost said than to your selfe For what an vniust and vnreasonable thing is it that you should taxe that opinion as defended by vs which your selfe knoweth to be condemned by our Churches Obiect our owne opinion to vs Campian if you can obiect any wee are not such as that we should thinke whatsoeuer Illyricus could as being a man erre in did any whit concerno vs. But either Illyricus must needes be drawne into this taxation or else this place was quite to be left voide by you For beside Illyricus I thinke you haue no man that thinkes so If you desire to know our opinion of this matter I confesse indeed that that defence of Illyricus did seeme euer very absurd to me For it both smels of the follie of the Manichies and it maketh two soules in a regenerate man and which is a greater matter it destroyes the soule That was alwaies the iudgemeÌ„t of the Catholike Church which I professe to be ours that the substance of the soule was not quite slaine by sinne but onely charged and infected with vitious qualities and that sinne is no inward substance of the soule but an r DVR The Catholike Church neuer beleeued that sinne was an accident or qualitie but only a priuation for if it were an accident God should be the cause and author of it WHIT. pag. 573. But this priuation is it not an accidentall thing vvhy then make you a scruple in vvords vvhen you vnderstand the sense An accident is commonly called that vvhich is in some substance but is no part of it vvhich may either be absent or present without the corruption of the subiect and such a thing euery man knovveth sinne is And though I confesse that the nature of sinne consisteth in a priuation yet it is not a bare priuation as you may learne ouâ— of your Thomas For. 1.2 quaest 82. art 1. he saith sinne is not a meere priuation but a corrupt habit like vnto a disease vvhereby not only health is taken avvay but bad humours are brought vpon the bodie And the Schoole men vvhen they make priuation of originall iustice to be the forme of originall sinne and the matter to be concupiscence or a corrupt inclination of the faculties of the soule vvhat doe they teach but that in sinne there is some positiue thing as Thomas vseth to call it But vvhy do I endeuour to refell you for vvhom Physike is fitter then a refuration As for your reason it hath no force for God is not to be accounted the author of all accidencies but indirectly and by accident Basil saith That the roote and cause of sinne is in our selues euen our freewill accident Å¿ DVR Basil saith not that sin is an accident or a quality but an affection coÌ„trary to vertue WHIT. pag. 575. Then must it be somevvhat for nothing cannot be contrarie to vertue Basill writeth truly in that hee denieth that sinne is any liuing substance or indued with a soule Basil iâ—ubâ—â—p hons 2. August de nuptijs lib. 1. cap. 25. but a qualitie contrarie to the vertue of the soule Augustine t DVR Augustine vvill accuse you for slandering him because he spake not of sin but of concupiscence vvhich he accounted to be no sinne WHIT. pag. 576. Doth Augustine account concupiscence no sinne vvhy then calleth he it an affection of an euill quality vvhy doth he compare it to a disease vvhy doth he demaund the question hovv concupiscence should remaine in the regenerate vvhose sinnes are all remitted if it vvere not a sinne his ansvvere proueth it yet more fully For he saith concupiscence is remitted in Baptisme not that it should be no sinne at all as you vvould haue it but that it should not be imputed for a sinne If it vvere no sinne hovv could it be imputed for a sinne Finally August cont â—ulian lib. 5 cap. 3. affirmeth that it is a sinne and a punishment of sin and a cause of sinne and that in the regenerate It is manifest in the place that he speaketh of that concupiscence against vvhich the spirit lusteth and vvhich in vvithout the consent of the vvill It at any time he denie it to be a sinne it iâ— not simplie but in opposition to actuall sinne for hovv should that be nothing vvhich is remitted in Baptisme vvhich Christ satisfied for by his blood or is God angry vvith vs for nothing It must therfore needs be sin Originall sinne saith he remaineth not substantially as it were some bodie or spirit but it is a certaine affection of an euill qualitie like a disease Finally Ambrose most plainly Ambros in Rom. 6. c. 7. u DVR Ambrose his vvords refell your error WHIT. pag. 577. Nay they refell your error For hee saith it is a straying from good Novv this straying is an action and not a meere priuation And you your selues earnestly defend that sin is an action If it be an action then an accident then no meere priuation theÌ„ not nothing How dwelleth sin in the flesh seeing it is no substance but a straying from good Therfore let vs if you please send away the suspition of this error imposed by you vpon vs to the author himselfe As for that you adde that it is a thing commonly held by this filthie sect that all sinnes be equall verily nothing could be spoken more impudently Pardon me Campian if I answere you somewhat sharpely for your vnmodest and intolerable impudencie wrung that terme from me Are you so far spent that you are not able to charge vs with any true crime but shamelessely to obiect those things against vs from which we of all others are farthest off For who did euer more vehemently disallow or more strongly confute this paradoxe of the Stoiks than our Diuines whom you now pursue All records of these times may be witnesses hereof our bookes Churches and Schooles be witnesses as also both the ciuill and Church Discipline may be a witnesse Did you thinke that you could creepe
any Schoole-learning that they will heedfully obserue how current these your conclusions be and examine them by the rules of right and true disputation And indeed to chuse I will there begin where you your selfe haue made an entrance We mainteine that it is lawfull for Ministers of the Gospell and for Deacons to be maried You skorne the arguments whereby we make it good Wherefore let vs consider what goodly stuffe is brought on your side for the contrarie Pope Innocent the second of that name Distinct 82 Proposuisti Rom. 8.8 thus concludeth you must suppose by diuine inspiration against these mariages They which are in b DVR Pope Innocent spake of Priests who had vowed single life of their ovvne accord but aftervvard yeelded to lust WHIT. pag. 735. Nay he spake that of all Deacons and Priests for hee saith further Distinct. 82. cap. proposuisti It is not lawfull to admit them to holy offices which vse carnall companie â—ith their wiues because it is written â—â—e yee holy for 〈◊〉 the Lord your God am holy for then hee esteemed marriage duty to bee an vnholie thing in it selfe not in respect of their vow of which he speaketh not a word the flesh cannot please God Tit. 1.15 Vnto the pure al things are pure but vnto them that are defiled and vnbeleeuing is nothing pure Be yee holy because I the Lord your God am holy And because S. Paul permitteth married people by consent to sleepe apart for a season to the end they may more conueniently giue themselues to fasting praier Distinct 31. Tenere here heÌ„ce the Pope gathereth that this is much more c DVR This argument is good and can haue no shew of error For aboue all men a Priest must be chaste saith Origen Homil. 6 4. in Leuit. Also Ierome and Ambrose and Epiphanius taught the same WHIT. pag. 736. Yea you erâ—e and mistake S. Paul in theree things 1. What he wrote to all Christians you expound of Lay-men only 2. He speaketh only of extraordinarie fasts prayer but you applie it vnto all sorts thereof That the Apostle speaketh of extraordinarie appeares 1. Because he hath ioyned fasting with them 1. Cor. 7.5.2 Because Christ and his Apostle haue commanded all to pray continually and so all ought to lâ—ue a single life 3. From a short abstinence of Lay-men you childishly would proue a perpetuall single life to be necessary for Ministers You abuse also Origens words play the heretike as if chastitie were contrary to matrimony whereas the Fathers of the Nicene Councell consented to Paphnutius who said openly that society with a lavvfull wiâ—e is chastitie Socrates lib. 1. cap. 11. Jerome indeed disputed too sophistically against matrimony seeking victory more then verity as himself confessed Ambrâ—se and Epiphanius disswaded Ministers only from second mâ—â—riages allowing their fiâ—st to be done of Priests whose office is to pray alwaies to offer that daily sacrifice Distinct 28 Decernimus Last of al seeing they must be a teÌ„ple of the Lord and an oratory of the spirit d DVR Tertullian vsed this same argument against second marriage WHIT. pag. 739. Tertullian therein erred with Montanus as all the learned know condemning second marriages of vncleannes not only in Ministers but in all Christians yet he himselfe being a Priest was married and liued with his wife continuing his Ministery so that he neither iudged marriage to be vncleanenes nor vnlavvfull in Ministers simplie but only second marriages they ought not to abase themselues with bed-pleasures vncleannesses Now out of all these he coÌ„cludeth that which he propounded that Deacons and Priests are flatlie forbidden to marry Harding and Dorman and others If these things be absurdly disputed let vs heare others Seuerall Pastors haue rule ouer seuerall flockes c DVR The Pope challengeth no Lordship ouer the Churches but professeth himselfe the seueruant of Gods seruants WHIT. pag. 740. But his deeâ—s bewray his tyranny for he prescribeth commandeth threatneth punisheth and doth whatsoeuer any Lord can do DVR You can disproâ—e this consequent by no argument WHIT. pag. 741. It is an absurd argument like these Euery seuerall man hath one head therefore all men must haue one head Euery seuerall flocke hath his shepheard therefore all flockes must haue one to rule them Againe no one man can possiblie teach and feed the whole Church with the Word and Sacrament as a faithfull Pastor should and may doe in a particular Church Christ only can thus feed al particular Churches which can neuer be made one visible body and therefore can haue none but Christ the generall head and Pastor ouer them DVR Ierome Cyprian and Ireneus haue written the same we doe WHIT. pag 742. Not one of them First Ierome defendeth the superiority of one Pastor in the Church not as a matter of accessitie but of conueniency to preuent schismes and saith that the Church is founded vpon all the Apostles alike and that euery one equally hath receiued the keies of the kingdome of heauen euen in that place where you quote him against Iouinian lib. 1. Secondly Cyprian coÌ„cludeth only that there should be but one Pastor in one Church and neuer thought vpon the Popes primacie but saith plainly that euery particular Bishop hath all whatsoeuer any one hath by right in the same booke which you alleadge of the Churches vnity Lastly Ireneus called the Romane the chiefe Church not for any superiority but because she excelled all others in constancie largenes fame and soundnes of faith therefore the Pope ought to haue dominion ouer all Churches Christ said to Peter feed my sheepe f DVR Jt is manifest by this place that Christ gaue greater authoritie of feeding to Peter than to the other Apostles and so made him head of all his Church WHIT. p. 744. It will not follow vpon this place that Peter had greater authority to feed or that he only must feede all for he said to them all alike Matth. 28.19 Goe yee teach all nations and Iob. 20 21. As the Father sent me so I send you Therefore he spake so often then to Peter to confirme him after his grieuous fall that he might not doubt of his Apostolicall calling as saith Augustines treatise on Iohn 123. so that it no whit concerneth the Pope therefore Peter is the chiefe principall Pastor of the Church The Lord made two great lights the Sunne g DVR The Pope vseth this as a similitude to amplifie not as an argument to prooue by authoritie WHIT. pag. 746. This is an idle shift a similitude is an argument and Johannes Andraeas would prooue hereby that the Pope excelleth the Emperor in dignitie seuentie times seuen degrees the Moone therfore the Pope excelleth the Emperour in honour and greatnes Heere are two swords therfore the h DVR VVe gather nothing hence but vvhat Bernard did saying This sword of temporall povver is thine
but indeed many of your Schooles defend him saying the kingdome of heauen is prepared for them vvhich haue merited it by their good works therefore hee chuseth no man to life eternall but with respect of merits S. Iames commaundeth that sicke persons should be anointed Å¿ DVR The sicke vvant health novv as vvell as then and therefore must novv haue the same helping remedie WHIT. pag. 763. Anointing was a signe of healing in those times of extraordinarie giftes in the Church your anointing healeth nothing that wanteth health and so is friuolous therefore we must now euer and anon anoint the sicke This is a great mysterie t DVR The Apostle speaketh that properly of Matrimonte WHIT. pag. 764. Nay he himselfe expoundes it of the mysticall vnion betweene Christ and the Church therefore Matrimonie is a Sacrament Elias and Iohn Baptist liued in the wildernesse u DVR These men left a famous example of Monkish life WHIT. pag. 765. The Monkes life is not proued by their examples for Elias was commaunded to goe into the desert during perill they doe that without both precept and perill John Baptist indeede liued in the desert but wherein men did dwell to whom also he preached and there were many cities and townes in that desert Josh 15.61 what is this to idle Monkish life therefore they inuented the manner of life and discipline of Monkes There are seuen deadly sinnes x DVR Name him that thus disputeth WHIT. pag. 766. It is Iohn Lâ—dâ—vvicke in a booke intituled The golden vvorke of true contrition leafe 128. Where are abunuen sorts of men in the Church c. therefore there are iust seuen Sacraments God made man after his image y DVR Pope Adrian proueth not the vse of images by this place but saith it vvas signified by it WHIT. pag. 767. Then you confesse he alleageth that Scripture to proue the vse of images was signified by it and who but a superstitious doctor would haue done so therefore images must be set vp in Churches The chiefest of these is charitie z DVR The chiefest gift must come from the chiefest vertue WHIT. pag. 768. S. Paul 1. Cor. 13. doth not in all things preferre charitie before faith but onely because it indureth in the life to come when wee shall not neede faith as Chrysostome expoundes it now faith onely apprehends Christ our righteousnesse and therein excelleth charitie Lastly you erre grossely in effect ascribing our iustâ—fication to the merit of vertue in vs vvhich onely is merited by Iesus Christ therefore we are iustified more by charitie than by faith I will goe Osea 5.15 saith the Lord to my place vntill they ponder in their heart and seeke my face which indeede he spake a DVR Do you thinke that God calleth men to repentace ironically WHIT. pag. 799. No but when men will not seâ—k God being called thereto by his bountie no maruaile though hee withdraw it from them and as it were laugh at their madnes of which ironies there be many examples in Scriptures ironically and after the manner of men therefore men may be conuerted vnto the Lord by their owne meere will and disposition The Lord commaundeth vs to doe many things b DVR Augustine denieth that God hath commanded impossible thinâ—s WHIT. pag. 770. Hee expoundeth his owne meaning that Adam before his fall could and that we in heauen shal be able to keepe all Gods commandements but he often saith that no man in this life can fulfill the Law of God DVR Men vse not to make lavves impossible to be kept WHIT. We must not measure Gods doing by mans Againe when these lawes were first giuen man could performe them and vvee must not looke that God should alter them to fit our corruption DVR God could not iustly punish lavvbreakers if they could not keepe it WHIT. pag. 771. Answere then Eusebius Euangelicall demonst lib. 1 who saith that Moses Lavv vvas impossible to be kept of any man And Thomas Aquinas vpon Gal. 3. sect 4. saying Moses commaunded many things vvhich no man could fulfill therefore those things may be performed of vs. Christ descended to the dead therefore he deliuered c DVR Tell me for what other cause Christ went into bel but to deliuer the Fathers from Limbus WHIT. pag. 772. Nay first proue you that he did go so to hel as you thinke for my part I beleeue it not but that his soule went presently to heauen Againe you begge the question saying he went to hell to deliuer the Fathers DVR I proue it by these Scriptures Zac. 9.11 Psal 68.18 Heb. 9.8 WHIT. â—acharie speaketh only of the Iewes deliuery from the captiuitie of Babylon Dauid speaketh of Christs ascending into heauen and triumph ouer his enemies and you childishly inferre hereupon therefore he descended to hell to deliuer the Patriarkes from Limbus but most ridiculously you abuse that place to the Hebrewes the true sense whereof is that we are not reconciled to God by the Iewish sacrifices but by Christ therefore you inferre that none of the Patriarkes vvent to heauen vntill Christ came out of hell and opened heauen by his bodilie ascension the Fathers out of Limbus The Church discerneth the Scriptures d DVR Catholikes say not so WHIT. pag. 773 But your false Church doth so for it interpreteth Scriptures as it listeth and constraineth all Christians to rest therein bee it neuer so false and contrarie to the Scriptures else it doth condemne him for an heretike therefore the authoritie of the Church is greater than the authoritie of the Scriptures Saint Paul commaundeth the Thessalonians 2. Thess 2.15 that they keepe the ordinances which they had learned therefore e DVR What error find you in this argument WHIT. pag. 774. I find in it a threefold false consequent first you cannot proue hence that the things which S. Paul spake by word were not the same in effect which hee wrote to theÌ„ secondly if he wrote not all to theÌ„ which he had taught theÌ„ it followeth not that hee taught something which is not written in the Scriptures thirdly admit many things were left vnwritten yet it followeth not that all things necessary to saluatioÌ„ be not written nor do the ancient Fathers say so all things are not written which are necessarie to saluation 2. Cor. 3 15. Hee himselfe shall bee safe yet as it were through fire f DVR Sundry Fathers expound this place of Purgatory fire WHIT. pag. 776. But the place it selfe sheweth that it cannot bee meant of any such fire for 1. S. Paul speaketh of the purging away that which is a fault but in your Purgaâ—orie faults are not consumed but you say punishments are sâ—ffred for fâ—uâ—â—s 2. S. Paul saith euery mans worke be it gold or wood shall be tried but you cast nothing but wood hay and stubble into your fained Purgatory 3. S. Paul saith euery mans worke shall be