the soule of Christ were in heauen vntill his resurrection then could not these words of Christ bee true Iohn 20. 17. Touch me not for I haue not yet ascended vnto my father for it is the preter-perfect tense 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Therefore as this is vntrue to say that Abraham is not in heauen because his body was not in heauen so this is false to say Christ was not in heauen because his body was not in heauen Our body is gouerned by the soule and man taketh his appellation of a reasonable creature not of the body but of the soule and therefore if Christs soule went vp to heauen as you say this cannot be true I haue not yet ascended to my father Besides if Christs soule went first to heauen and afterward his soule and body togither then were there 2. ascensions proue this and I will geue you the goale You dally also with my argument in this manner The whole race of mankind is not in England ergo there is no men in England Do you think there is no more union betwixt Christ and his soule then betwene all the men of the world then by this reason the body and the soule of Christ were neuer vnited together Your next resemblance is this Edmund Campions whole body is not ouer Newgate Ergo no part of him Heere is a foule error to thinke Christs soule to be an integral or diuisible part which is ane essential or indiuisible for by your reason Christs soule is mortal may perish as the integral parts of CampioÌ„ doth You vtter also an other error in these words the whol man Christ for the whol man doth not make Christ but God and man as you may see in Athanasius Creede As the reasonable soule and flesh is one man So god and man is one Christ I will ende therefore with this saying of Irynaeus who liued vnder Marcus Antonius in the yeare of our Lord god 125 which thus proueth the descending of Christ into hell For the writing against Heretiques that said hel was in this world as many doo now a dayes thus reproueth them in his fift book and last chapter As Ionas taried in the whales belly three dayes and three nights so shall the Sonne of man bee in the hart of the earth And the Apostle saith what is it that he ascended but that he first descended into the lowest partes of the earth and Dauid prophecying of this sayd Thou hast deliuered my soule from the nethermost hel and rising again the third day he sayd to Mary which he sawe first and worshipped him Touch me not for I haue not yet asscended to my Father but go to my Disciples and tel them I will go to my Father and to your Father If then the Lord keep the law of the dead that he might be the first begotten of the dead how are they ashamed that say hell is in this world Thus you see it is no strange thing to see this scripture alleadged to proue that Christs soule was not in heauen vntil his visible and glorious ascention Irenaeus a man of more learning and iudgement then I am of alleaged it to the same end aboue 1300. years ago and then it was accompted a currant argument among the learned HVME his reioynder to the 11. sect HEere before you will buckle with this section you thrust for-ward your invincible Goliah as you suppose and will haue him make an end of this battell You say that neither I nor anie of my freends dare meet him You thought so because amongst all his fellowes I mist him onelie But you are deceaued of his valour He hid himself amongst the slaine heapes of his fellowes If I had seene his creast I had seauen stones in a scrip the least wherof was big inâ—â—gh to beat his braine through his helmet The place is in the 17. of Eccles I neede not repeat the wordes First I could haue tolde you that the booke is not Canonicall Secondlie that it was not written in the tongue on the property whereof you build your argument Thirdly that these words the lowermost parts of the earth be not in the originall wherein this book was first written and therfore haue gotten Tom Drummes intertainment by the Geneua translatours lunius Vatablus and divers others Fourthlie that though it had pleased Iesus the sonne of Syrach to cal Hell by that name it will not follow that all other men did vse the worde so Fiftly that you could finde those words in that sense in some place of the Canonicall Scriptures which indeede you cannot it will not follow that whersoeuer wee meete with them they must haue the same signification except the necessarie circumstances doe approue or inforce it Sixtlie that seeing that place is spoken of the mercifull them whose good deedes the Lord doth keep as the aple of his eie it were a bad reward for men whose good deedes are so precious in the Lordes eies to bee casten into the dungeon of Hell Seventhlie and lastlie that seeing the common translator who foisteth in those words doth make it the reward of euery man to be cast into the lowermost parts of the earth it wil passe your skill to proue that euerie man shall be cast into hel The note in the margent of the 25. 35. of Math. helpeth not you but prooueth the contrarie that this place pertaineth to them that giue meat to the hungrie drinke to the thirstie and clothes to the naked c. Thus you may see that this champion is not so strong as you take him and that the note in the margent whosoeuer made it helpeth you like ale in your shoes You tell mee that nowe I am come to my schoole-points which in you I called Sophistrie The true maximes and rules of art sucked out of the marrowes of nature I neuer called Sophistrie in you nor no man else Your shrimpish reasons set out in the painted coates of blased words and confidentlie commended to the beholders without al bounds of modestie I haue called them what I haue called them and not so ill as they deserue My rule which you say were sophistrie if you vsed it as I doe you confesse it to be true in integrall parts Nowe say I the soule and the bodie be integrall parts of a man Ergo by your owne confession my rule is true of the soule and the bodie But if you had taken my maxime right you should haue found it hold in all parts whatsoeuer For I meant that a particular negatiue of the whole is not good to bring in a negatiue of anie particular part All Campion hangeth not ouer New-gate importeth that some part of him haÌ„geth there And all men bee not in England importeth that there be some men there which bee particular negatiues expressed in generall tearmes as non omris and nonnullns
weake and gouernment to them that either cannot or will not keepe order But Christes soule after this praier was neither distressed guiltie weake nor disorderlie Ergo he commended not his soule into Gods consolation mercie protection and gouernement This is all that in all this section you haue spoken to the purpose You haue I must needs confesse a great deale of other stuffe as much as all this In one place you ignorantly charge vs that we giue Christ not a personall but a potentiall discending into Hel. For we say that Christ descended personallie into Hell both bodie and soule and suffered actuallie all the torments thereof for our redemption Otherwise were he but a potentiall Saviour and all wee actuallie condemned You quote also heere out of place and to small purpose the 10. and 11. verses of the 4. to the Ephes which might haue bene deferred more convenientlie to the 8. 9. and 10. section where it is handled of purpose Out of it you gather first an absurditie That if the same Christ did ascend and descended hee descended in soule and bodie or else he could not haue beene the same Did you neuer heare that the same Christ was from all aeternitie that the same Christ was slaine from the beginning of the worlde that the same Christ lay three dayes in the graue as Ionas was three dayes and three nights in the whales bellie And yet I trust you will not say that his soule and bodie was from all aeternitie that his soule and body was slain from the beginning sure I am that you that stand so much that the soule can not bee buried will not say that hee lay three dayes soule and bodie in the graue Your wonderfull manner in which you say these things were effected is a wonderfull Sophisme You seeme to thinke that there were no wonder in Christes descending except this place be vnderstood of his descending into hell as if it were not as great a wonder that the sonne of God descended into the wombe of a Virgine and there did cloath himself in mans nature But all this wonderfull discourse of woÌ„ders is beside the text After all these by-blowes you gather vpon this text a reason against the main conclusion That Christs soule was not in heauen while his bodie laie in the graue because then hee should haue ascended before he descended contrarie to the place of the Eph. There be two errours in the levelling of this peece that beares it quite beside the marke First you giue the name of ascending to the soule without the bodie contrarie to the Scriptures Act. 2. 34. Dauid is not yet ascended And this taketh away your next reason of two ascensions Secondlie you giue the name of descending to the descending of his humanitie into hell which is spoken by the Apostle of the Descending of his Deitie in his humane state Thus a man may see your wit howe cleanelie and closelie you can lap two fallacies into one proposition HVME sect 6. FOr the other place you bring a reddier sense out of Augustine of that which is God not of that which is man his sense how readie soeuer it pleaseth him to teaâ—me it can no wise stande with these wordes of our Saviour For this day shalt thou be with me in Paradice doth sound in all latine eares I mean to all that vnderstand the latine tongue as if hee had said This day thou and I shall be in Paradice which no man that hath one drop of braine in his head dare aduisedlie attribute to the Deitie which being there from all aeternitie could not go thither in the future time But mee thinkes I heare you say that the future verbe is giuen to the theefe onlie and with me which agreeth to the speaker is limited with no bounds of tyme. Against this I haue the consent of the best Grammarians and the theefe also For Remember mee said he when thou commest in thy kingdome By whose verdict it is cleare that he was not yet in his kingdome to whome he made this supplication Neither do I thinke that Christ himselfe did mislike with his judgement For if hee had erred of ignorance no doubt hee would haue set him right But he was so far from correcting him he rather confirmed him answering in the same tense or time Thou shalt be with me c. Moreouer the Pronoun me is referred to the person that spake which I hope you wil not say was Christ God alone but Christ both God and man Thus you see that these two places are too strong for your ordinance If you haue no better shot then these we will spred our banners with magna est iuvicta veritas HILL his reply HEre you condemne S. Augustins answer Well because S. Augustine is dead and in your margine you say that it is M. Hills answere by Gods grace and his worde M. Hill will defend it First I note a falsification of the text by you alleadged for where as it is in the text Luke 23. 42. Remember mee Lord when thou commest into thy kingdome You for Lord say Maister I tolde you in the begining Eue did change the words of the Scripture to her ouerthrowe Therefore I pray you leaue it for otherwise I must tell you of it if a boy in the Grammer schoole construe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Maister hee is worthie to be beaten and if a schoolemaister teach so he is worthy to be controlled for this worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 writen by Stephanus with a capital letter wil cashire your banner of boasting bring your glorie to shame I preached in my sermon at Chippenham that to day did signifie for euer and with me did signifie the Godhead I will not only affirme it but confirme it that to day doth signifie for euer in this place first I proue it by this philosophicall reason out of Aristotle which saith In aeternis non est tempus In eternall things there is no time For time is the measure of motion therfore if there be time then is there motion Now as in Hell all men do suffer torments and in earth all labour So in Heauen all doe rest Apoc. 14. 13. Blessed are the dead that dye in the Lord so saith the spirit for they rest from their labours Therfore where there is no mutation from day to night nor from summer to winter there is no day naturall or artificiall as you suppose And this is proued Apoc. 10 6. And the Angell sware by him that liueth for euermore which created heauen and the things that are therein that time shall be no more And this word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to day is vsed for euer in many Scriptures Psal 2. 7. Thou art my Son this day haue I begotten thee Act. 13. 33. we declare vnto you touching the promises made vnto the Fathers god hath
also may be on in vs. Two absurdities by implication in the D. reply That to saue and condemne is the office of the God-head onlie and not of the humanity contrary to Mark. 2. 10. Act. 10. 42. and Ioh. 5. 27. Or else the collection out of Augustine will not holde that with mee doth signifie the God-head onelie That the theef prayed not for the presence of the bodie and soule which hee had but for the presence of the diuine nature as if the deuine nature had euer bene absent from the soule and bodie contrarie to the Hypostasis and vniting of the persons HVME his reioynder to the 4. sect OVr reason is if Christ went that same day as hee suffered to Paradice he wēt not to Hell amōgst the damned But he went that same day to Paradice Ergo he wēt not to hel amōgst the dāned For the minor we haue Christ himself witnes Luk. 23. 43. You replied at Chippenhā out of Aug. that this promis to the theef Thou shalt be with me is ment onlie of the Godhead of Christ and not of his soule To that answere I rejoyned saving Augustines reverence whome I honour as farre as it is meet to honour a man what euer you beare your reader in hand to the contrary that this being spoken in the future time and implying an absence at that present from his kingdome could not pertaine to the Godhead being at all times in all places That heere is implyed an absence it is cleare by the theefes sute Remember mee when thou commest into thy kingdome And that this is spoken in the future time it is manifest by Christes answere Then shalt be with mee in Paradice which by a rule of Grammer is as if he had said I and thou shall be in Paradice which is a plaine future tense Nowe heere in this your reply you passe by this testimony of this holie theefe and him in whome was neuer found theft nor guile as if you looked for better witnesses If these be not sufficient I haue no better but I hope the reader will esteeme better of their wordes and count mumme but a meane answere Yet if you were half so worthie your scarlet hood as manie do hope and you do think there was left you more shewe of a probable reply That these thinges be spoken of the Deitie per 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Wherfore to preuent your hope if you chance to finde it heereafter I will now teare the bosse from that bukler This figure is neuer applyed to anie text but when some inconuenience in the letter will take no salue but such a corrasiue But this text if it be well handled needeth no such hard plaister Ergo this figure is not to bee applyed to this text Heere neglecting the answere that had anie shew of probabilitie and replying nothing to my argument to make shew of some thing you pick two quarrels to mee in your written copie of which you scrape out one for shame in your print for falsefiing the text The first is that I translate 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Maister and not Lord. The second that I translate 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not to day but this day Where I pray thee marke gentle Reader that though I were guiltie of both these faultes yet my argument drawn from the future time standeth betweene both these blowes without tip or tap But because it is a hainous matter to peruert the Scriptures I will not confesse a crime so odious being innocent And now M. Doctor if you were a Schoolmaister as you were some time and would seem yet and did beat your Scholler for construing 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Maister men might say that you were more worthie of the rod then he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be relatiues in greke as seruus and Dominus in latine and Maister and servant in English so are they vsed Eph. 5. 6. Col. 3. 22. and 4. 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Nowe then if the english of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be a servant the English of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 must be a Maister Neither is it denied but that in some case it may be Englished Lord. Some servants haue Lords and all Lords exercise a magisteriall power ouer their vassals As for this place it seemeth to expresse the Hebrew RABBI which was to them a cōmon stile of dignitie as Maister is in English And therfore in my simple vnderstanding so far is it from heresie that this seemeth the fittest English to meete that greeke in this place But you beat mee with two sore arguments the one that Stephanus doeth write 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with a capitall letter the other that in the 34 of Exod. bee set downe the 13. names of God and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the first of them You were much beholden to Stephanus If he had chanced to write 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with a sorting letter you had lost the best argument that euer was bred with your mothers milke and a weapon to cashire our banners But they be not Babilonian as you imagine they are as I said and you see the banners of truth that will not be cashired with a capitall K. As for the 13. names of God I neuer observed onlie so manie neither can I finde just that nomber in that place whither you send mee The first name in that place and the onlie name for any thing that I can see is IEHOVAH the very essential name of God The rest be Epithets not names But tell in good sadnesse M. Doctor is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the same in greek that IEHOVAH is in Hebrew I euer took IEHOVAH to come from HAIAH a verbe of beeing to declare that God the cause of all beeings hath no cause of his owne beeing And 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I tooke to expresse the rule and commandement which hee doth exercise ouer his creatures But say you the theefe when hee called him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 did cal him God If that bee of necessitie then servants obey your maisters will soūd servāts obey your Gods You will not I hope stand to this Divinitie As for the translating of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 this day if I was deceaued the greek and latine deceaued mee For seeing 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and hodie compounded of hoc die did meete the same I thought I wanted not reason to translat it this day But if this be haeresie how will you couer the same wart on your own nose fol. 20. pag. 1 of your printed sermon here in this same sect also Your reason why it may not be translated this day is that to day is an indefinite this day a particular But this was so subtile in your printed copie that you are ashamed of it good cause had you For 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is so particular of it self that
on this place saith that by the branches are vnderstoode the carcasses of his hoast which the veasts of the field did deuour Lauaterus the Minister of Tigurin agreeth with him All the beasts of the field shall dwell vpon his ruine the kings carkas shall not be laide vp into the sepulcher of his elders but shall be a pray to crowes griphins and other carniâ—orous birdes So doth Pellican a learned Linguist interpret this place at the laste there is ane auersion or Apostrophe to Pharao himselfe or to the Assyrian King To whom art thou liâ—ened O thou noble and high among the trees of pleasure thou hast passed all other in power and yet with other kings that were in thy company they were brought to the lowest parts of the earth that is to hell among the abhominable heathen shalt thou sleepe and lye as a wretched and miserable man Now because you tak holde of the word sleepe you must remember that these words ar spoken ironically as it is noted in the contents of Esay 14. The derision of the king of Babilon Moreouer Lauaterus on this place of Ezech. saith These things may be better vnderstood out of the 14. of Es which prophecying of the destructioÌ„ of y â— king of Babilon Baltassar describeth with what bitter scoffs he is entertained in hell To end Lauaterus on this place proueth these four things first that there is ane hell secondly that hel in this chapter is called by three names that is 1. SHEOL 2. ERETS TACHTITH 3. BOR Hell the lowest parts of the earth and a pit thirdlie that this Hel is beneath vs and lastlie that the tyrants and wicked of the world do discend into it and this he proueth out of Numb 16. 33. Psal 55. 15. And addeth also that Tertullian and Ierome doo proue hel to be beneath in the earth The conclusion then is thus for as much then as the Assyrians dyed with the sword and were deuoured of the beasts and birds of the fielâ— I pray tell mee how that can bee true that you affirme that the lowest partes of the earth doth signifye the graue for howe were they in the graue y â— were neuer buried therfore they were in hel as both Esay and Ezechiel doo affirme and as Pellican Munster Lauater three notable lerned men in the holy tong doe interpret it I thinke your owne friends when they reade this will confesse you either to bee ignorant of the word of God or els to wrest it contrary to the meaning of the holy ghost Moreouer where you mislike with me because I said that ERETS TACHTITH that is the lowermost partes of the earth doth signifye hell generally in the Hebrew toong and you bring an instance out of the 139. Psal and 14. verse where you proue that the lower parts of the earth doth signifie the mothers womb therefore it doth not signifie hell alwaies this is a childish reason In a metaphorical signification it signifieth the mothers womb therefore in his proper signification it can not signifie hell Argumentum a metaphora ductum non valet an argument drawen from a metaphore is of no force And that heere is a metaphor M. Caluin shall be the iudge He compareth saith Caluin the mothers wombe to the lowest and inward dens of the earth and a little after for no doubt Dauid would expres metaphoricaly that inestimable cunning which appereth in the figure of mans body The mothers womb is compared to hel for the darknes of it for as Caluin saith that artificer which maketh a cunning peece of worke in a darke place is more to be commended then hee which doth the like in the light Dauid also is heere saide to bee made in the nethermost parts of the earth 336 because he was by nature the child of wrath and of hell if he had not bin deliuered therehence by Iesus Christ Breefely where you say that he descended in to the Virgins wombe and that it is the true meaning of the place Eph. 4. 9. both you and your M. Beza are deceaued For Paul reproueth you Ep 4. 10. He that descended is even the same that ascended Now the body and soul of Christ ascended into heauen therefore the body and soule of Christ descended into the virgins wombe if the body did descend into the virgins womb then Christ took not flesh of the virgin Thus that you may contradiâ—t me you are not affraid ignorantly or wittinglye to deny the incarnation of our Sauiour Theophilact saith well of these words when you read that the Sonne of man came down from heauen you may not think that his flesh came down froÌ„ heauen for this is y â— opinion of Heretiques which did teach that Christ brought his body from heauen and did passe through the virgin I hope you holde not this opinion but if you hold this interpretation you must needs fall into it For he that descended is euen the same that ascended Eph. 4. 10. Violence in this section done to the text by the Doctor First that the whole 24. chap. of Eccles speaketh of the Sonne of God and of his wonderfull workes in saving mankinde of the which this was one that he was not onelie aliue amongst the living but after death his bodie was amongest the dead bodies and his soule amongst the soules in Hell c. That Esay in 14. 9. and Ezech. in the 15. verse of his 31. cap. calleth that Hel plainelie which Ezech. in the 18. verse of the same chapter calleth the lowermost partes of the earth That in the 31. 18. vers of Ezech. Thou shalt bee cast downe in the lowermost parts of the earth and sleepe in the middest of the vncircumcised the word sleepe is taken ironicallie That in Eph. 4. it is ment that Christ descended in soule and body as he ascended in soule and body A new rule in Logick that argumentum a Metaphora sumptum non valet HVME his reioynder to the 9. sect FIrst marke that by a general axiome whatsoeuer a man alledgeth to proue a thing either doutfull or vnknowne the same must be better knowne and inforce such a necessitie of consequence as cannot be denied The thing that you haue heere in hand to proue is that the lowermost parts of the earth is as proper and peculiar a name for the place of the damned as Hell is in English To proue this your testimonies should be without controulment But are in deede so farre short of that marke that they are if not harder altogether as hard and obscure as the place that they are alleadged to illustrate The first of them I haue dispatched in the former section The next is out of the 24. of Eccles a booke not Canonicall nor written in the tongue whereon wee stand In which respect I might haue rejected it But becaus one answere serued it and your
suffered a violent death For thanatotheis being deriued of thanateo must needs signifie put to death Now I hope you wil not say Christ was put to deth in soul body but in body only And wher you say that Christ suffered in soule aswell as in body that is true that is gathered not of thanatotheis y â— is killed but out of these words antecedent for Christ suffered the iust for the vniust No reasonable man but hee will say that the sufferings of Christ are comprised rather in the word suffered then in y â— word killed To your fourth reason I reply that Christ was raysed from the dead but it is specially signified in the word resurrection ver 21. therfore I do not confound those things that are distinguished but your selfe for you make suffered and killed all one and quickned and the resurrection all one and so mak not only a confusion but a tautology and needelesse repetition which neuer was read in the word of God To your fift argument where you say zoopoiâ—isthai is to receaue life I confesâ—e it is to be made aliue Then you vrge it can not be spoken of y â— soule which neuer lost life Then by y â— same reason more strongly it can not be spoken of the Godhead which hath doth shal liue for euer for God caÌ„ not receaue life but y â— soule is said to liue when he is out of the body not because he liued not before but because y â— body doth hinder y â— actions of the soule Iohn 11. 25. He that beleeueth in mee though he were dead yet shall he liue Sap. 9 15. The corruptible body is heavie vnto the soule the earthie mansion keepeth downe the minde that is full of cares 2. Cor. 4 16. Therfore we faint not but though our outward man perish yet our inward man is dayly renewed Heere Paul sayth the weaker the body is y â— stronger is his soule therefore the death of the body is the life of the soule To drawe to ane ende your Antithesis of the Deuinitie humanitie is answered before For your Antithesis must be of things contrary or at the least diuers and seperate but as you affirme truly the Godhead was never seperated from the humanitie therefore this antithesis is of the body and soule which at this time were deuided and not betweene the deity and humanitie which were alwaies vnited wherfore this bulwarke I can assure you will stand and you haue ouershot both it your self in attempting to ouerthrow it For the very scope of the Apostle is this all Christians must suffer afflictions for well doing for Christ did not only suffer both in body and soule but also was put to a shamefull death in his body and in his soule went downe to the soules in hell which were vnbeleeuers in the dayes of Noah but Christ did arise againe from hel and the graue and ascended both in body soule to heauen therfore shal you that suffer for wel doing be deliuered from death and hel by his merits and goe vp into heauen and be partakers of his glory as you haue ben partakers of his affliction Moreouer as you referre mee to reade Bezas greate notes one this text so I pray you to reade Aretius handling this place whose words ar these Generally sayth Aretius Pet. repeateth three effectes of Christs death if you marke it wel The first pertaineth to the damned The second to the elect The third the person of Christ The first was declared in his descending in to hell The second in his resurrection The third in his ascention into heauen This is the true and naturall meaning of this place which wee will follow leauing the intrications of other interpretations I willinglye confesse this place is very hard for Augustine doubteth of it Luther douteth of it how it is to bee vnderstoode but this obscurity aryseth not of the place but of the varietie of interpretations If thou marke the plainnesse of the place the matter will be easye but that pleaseth not all men therefore that euery on may establish his owne sence they apply the words of the Apostle Peter to their owne conceit But leauing these let vs imbrace that which the words do teach vs in the which if we attaine to the truth it is well if not yet they shall bee probable because they haue warrant out of the scriptures and leane to the very letter to reto otherwise it is certain the knowledge of man to be vnperfect in many questions of holie scripture of the which the Apostle doth warne vs 1. Corin. 15. For now wee knowe vnperfectlie I haue sayd here is declared three effects of Christs death which differ in time are set in order in the Creede The first effect is that Christ being dead denounced eternal paines to the wicked in hell The words of the Apostle are these In which spirite he went and preached to the spirits detained in prison I take the place simply of the descence into hell for so the words do plainly sound and I see al the Fathers so to interpret them Augustine Epist 99. and Ciprian doth manifestly interpret this place of the descending into Hel. Neither doth the word prison hinder this Interpretation which in the Apocal. 20. 5. is taken for hel When a thousand yeers shal be fulfilled Satan shall be losed out of his prison Therefore the prison that Peter heere speaketh of is the place deputed to the damned Hyther came Christ as we confes in the Creede He went downe into Hell where Hell is it is a foolish curious question to enquire sith no man coÌ„ming to that place euer returned but only Christ Furthermore what Christ did there Peter expresseth he preached to the spirits that is he declared that he shewd himselfe manifestly to the world and made that dire and mornefull sermon namely to y â— wicked that the mirit of his death did nothing pertaine vnto them but by his presence were confirmed those punishments of the which Noah and other prophets had forwarned them And the tyme of this Preaching I referre not to the tymes of Noah but to the tyme of hys descending into Hell Wherevnto agreeth the worde pneumasi that is spirits for hee preached to the spirits that is to dead and not to liuing men Thus sarre Aretius I could heere alleage many other newe Writers whiche are of my iudgement but because you yeelde them no credite therefore of purpose I will omit them HVME his Reioynder to the 12. sect THis berrie is so confused that I can not finde where to enter my firret First I prooued that Beza whome we follow in this place doth no violence to the wordes but vseth them as hee findeth them vsed by Iohn Paull and Peter Which foundation beeing laide I answere your