the life of the world to come 6 Prin. I admit and embrace most firmely the traditions Apostolique and Ecclesiastick and all the other observations and ordinances of the same Church Answ. Your traditions your word Catholique your sprinkling Infants which you call your baptisme does not remit your sins for there is no Scripture for it so Church traditions sprinkling Infants all have got up since the dayes of the Apostles and so the unholy Catholique and Apostolique Church traditions is got up since the dayes of the Apostles and your fruits declare it in the Apostacy from the true Church of the Saints and Apostles and the resurrection Christ you be ignorant of and the power of the world to come that be gone out of the faith that the Apostles were in 7 Prin. I admit also the holy Scripture according to the sense that hath been given by the holy mother Church to the which it appertaineth to judge of the true sense and interpretations of the holy Scripture and shall never take in hand to interpret them then according to the common consent of the Fathers Answ. Your mother which you call the holy Church which gives the sense is the whore from the spirit of God which the Apostles was in and Christ and the Prophets for that is it that knows the Scripture and that was in the Saints that gave it forth and all must have it in them before they know the words again and come into unity with God again of whom they learned that gave it forth and unity with the Scripture and one with another and this both Papists and Protestants are out of the spirit and falling out about the sense of Scripture and your Father and Mother sons which ravened from the spirit of God and so thou and you all teachers from others inventions and your teaching is traditions for Doctrine which are the commands of men but now to the Lord be glory ye are all discovered by his life 8 Prin. More I professe that there is seven truly and properly said Sacraments of the new Law instituted by our Lord Jesus Christ and necessary for the salvation of humane people but not all to every one viz. Baptism Confirmation Eucharist penitence the extream unction the Order and Marriage and that they confirme the grace and that among them the baptisme the confirmation and the order cannot be rejected without sacriledge Answ. In this you have shewed your Apostacy again from the Apostles and Christs doctrine which sayes Go preach the Gospell to all nations baptizing them without any limit and Marriage they that forbid that is the doctrine of Devils which is honourable the Bed undefiled in all And the Apostles doth not call them Sacraments neither Baptisme nor Marriage nor the visiting of the sick nor the Lords Supper Your confirmation and order and your penitence whipping and beating your selves for your sins is your own invention a sacrament of your owne making which the Apostle does not call repentance a sacrament or confessing of sin or sorrowing for sin the nature within should be afflicted and circumcised in the spirit which puts off the body of sin and that brought down and not to strike the creature and beat the creature that is as you wrestle with flesh and blood the power of darknesse causes you to do that which guides you within that strikes at the creature which power of darknesse should be struck at that the creature might come into the liberty of the sons of God 9 Prin. I receive also and admit the Ceremonies of the Church Catholique receive and approve in the administration solemnly of all the abovesaid sacraments 10 Prin. I embrace and receive all and every of the things which hath been defined and declared by the sacred holy Councel of Trent touching the sin originall and the justification 11 Prin. I protest likewise that in the masse is offered to God true proper and propitiatory sacrifice for the living and for the dead and that in the most holy Sacrament of the Eucharist is truly really and substantially the body the blood with the soule and the divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ and that there is made a conversion of all the substance of the bread into the body and of all the substance of the wine into the blood and the which conversion the Church Catholique calls Transubstantiation 12 Prin. I confess also that under one of these one receiveth Jesus Christ all entire and one true sacrament Answ. In these four Principles which ye teach for Doctrine is but your owne traditions and commandements which are learned of one another of men at the Council of Tâ—ent and at your Fathers which is your sin in the apostacy from the Apostles who was not of man nor by man And as concerning Justification ye are ignorant of for where that is known the sin is done away which came by the first Adam And they that believe are passed from death to life And there are some children of believers which is holy yet all by nature children of wrath in the unbelief and your Church is held up by tradition and traditions and vows and oaths which is all in the Apostacy from the spirit where it seems the root of the word protesting is come from your selves who are Apostates and not ftom the Scriptures but you have thrust it in your offering and mass it is but a dead thing it is neither good for the dead nor the living the living do not accept of it but as Cains sacrifice for are not you murtherers and destroyers of one another about Religion sacrifice and traditions as Cain did whom God did not accept his sacrifice And as the Jewes did without the life which gave forth the Scriptures turn against the just and all the Apostates since the dayes of the Apostles which are inwardly ravened from the spirit of God who set up all your lying signes and wonders and traditions and deceive people with them that dwell upon the earth who be from the spirit of God inwardly ravened from it in which spirit God is worshipped which spirit brings to offer living sacrifice And the bread and wine after they have consecrated it which you say is the very body and blood of Christ and soule and it 's divine and that ye call Transubstantiation and he that receives either bread or wine receives Christ Now seeing that this Doctrine and Principle is laid down by you the Council of Trent and tollerated by the great Bishop of Rome the Pope and taught by the Jesuites I shall demand one thing of you out of every Nation and from every Dominion and Island belonging to the Bishop of Rome the Pope Let there come forth a Bishop and a Jesuite and consecrate bread and wine and after consecration and conversion which you call transubstantiation which you say then is the very body blood and soul of Christ which is divine Let that then be set by and kept and let us take of
Spirit of God And are the wolves in sheeps clothing worrying the Lambs that comes to witness Christ in them the substance and hath proved and examined themselves and found him and so there people sticking in that they call the sign and keeping people from the substance receiving Christ Jesus in them for these things was to be done in remembrance of Christ until he came now if bread and wine be the body of Christ and his bloud then he is come how do you that in remembrance of him untill he come was they to eate his body and drink his bloud till he come did he go away in the Spirit and leave his body behind answer this whether or no his body did not rise and whether his body be elementary there was a Protestant against you that said the body of Christ was corruptible and you said the bread and wine is the body and bloud of Christ and that will corrupt and so we see you all in the error Pr. He saith the bare form of bread and wine doth change And though the light lead up to Christ they see nothing but that which doth change namely bread and wine Answ. Hear thou hast confounded thy self and all the Papists the whole body of them and confounded your own wisdom and knowledge and your own faith in things you do professe foâ— the body of Christ and his bloud doth not change and yet you say that bread and wine after consecration is the very body and bloud of Christ and hear you say doth change which is not comparable to the body and bloud of Christ that corrupts not nor changes not in this you have confounded your selves and blinded your souls in looking at things which are seen which the Divel and wicked ones out of the light do run into which you poor Creatures are captivated under his power things that are not seen are invisible but things that are seen as bread and wine are visible Pr. Our faith and doctrine is that Jesus Christ hath but one body and that the same body which is in that Sacrament shall come at last to judge us all Answ. The body of Christ which you call the bread after consecration which thou hast confessed is a changeable thing the â—orm of bread that which is changeable is not a judge Christ and his body is not changeable so therefore to judge and shall remain his body when bread and wine ceases So in this thou hast overthrown your own doctrine and faith and foundation and proved your selves to be stones of Babylon who with them builds up and throwes down again Pr. Whereas thou Queriest whether God is able to make one body to be in two or two thousand places at once Answ. The body of Christ is his flesh which he gives for the life of the world which they that eat it and feed upon it are of his flesh and lives for ever and are in more places then one comes to be of his flesh and of his bone and at this the Jewes stumbled that followed him for temporal bread and if temporal bread had been the body of Christ why would he bid them labour not for the meat that perisheth and that he said well in saying this is may body this is my bloud and except ye eat my flesh and drink my bâ—â—ud ye have no life in you but he did not tell the people after they had consecrated bread and wine that it was his body and bloud and he would drink with them in the Kingdom and did Christ eate his own body and drink his own bloud answer these Queries we see that the body of Christ is hid from you all Papists and Protestants and his flesh and his bloud and his wordâ— are spirit and life and that remains and bread and wine it is the elements did it come down from above from heaven after you have consecrated it is it not the wine that came of the grapes and the bread which was baked Christs body which is the bread is above the Manna which is given from heaven much more far above the bread of man Christ the true bread far above Angles-food is the body of Christ which who eates it lives for ever they that eated the Manna the Angels-food perished in the wildernesse many of them and far above mans bread that 's temporal and drink which they may eate and drink and hunger and thurst again and perish and which will perish Which they that decernes the Lords body decernes him that gives every creature its being the word of God by which all things was made and none of the figures nor shadowes nor types are the body of Christ but that which ends them all to you that is the word of the Lord which body was before they were which body is the Church the Piller and ground of truth and bread is not the Church after consecration for the Apostles never told us of that doctrine no vvhere in the Scriptures but you that of the body of Christ be ignorant the Top-stone is laid on your heads and the body of Christ makes us free from the Lavv Pr. We do not teach that bread after the consecration is the flesh of Christ but we say that after Christ had uttered these words this is my body or after the Priests according to Christs command do this in remembrance of me do utter the same words which we call consecration then the substance of bread vanisheth and is no more there but the body of Christ commeth in its place Answ. This again is confusion and you are confused and confounded in your own principles if the bread and wine which you say is not the flesh of Christ after consecration how is his body there and how can you say it is his body And thus you confound your selves Pr. Thou saist thou dost not find any expresse command of the Apostle in Scripture for observing of dayes nor meats nor none of these things as meats or crosses but what the Church shall command and saith but the Church hath commanded us to observe dayes and meats and that a crosse should be made in remembrance of Christs passion and the Images of Christ and his Saints may be set up and honored and that we should invoke the Saints c. and whatsoever the Church commandeth us And this is the sure and unmoveable ground upon which our Catholique faith even to the very least circumstance and ceremony is built c. And the contrary ground is the ground of all Hereticks Answ. We do believe you that all these observing of meats dayes and crosses is set up by your Churches command and all your Tythes Priests Pulpits and Temples amongst you and the Protestants which hath been set up by your Church command which is offended if they be not observed which is set up since the dayes of the Apostles which is Apostatized from the Apostles and the true Church in the Apostacy and are fallen into schisms and
THE PAPISTS STRENGTH Principles and Doctrines which they are sworn to Preach from the Councel of TRENT by the Popes Authority and after confirmed by the last General Assembly at ROVEN 1571. All which they have sworn to perform Answered and confuted Furthermore their Principles and Doctrines Answered and Confuted as they were laid down in two or three severall Papers by R. W. Papist lately sent from HOLLAND Also a challenge to the Pope and all his Adherents to choose out of all his Dominions some Cardinals Fryers or Jesuits to try their Bread and Wine after Consecration by watching on their side and on our side to prove that if afterward they have consecrated it whether the Bread and Wine doth not loose its taste and savour and so not the Body and Blood of CHRIST Also a paper to all them that fast and afflict themselves who are in the will-worship and voluntary humility Also some Quaeries to all the Papists upon Earth to be answered in writing and sent to them which all Sects upon the Earth call QUAKERS By GEORGE FOX LONDON Printed for Thomas Simmons at the Bull and Mouth neer Aldersgate 1658. The Papists Principles as followeth whose name subscribed thereunto is R. W. Priest HE saith He cannot but admire to see what a power Satan hath over the sons of Adam and especially â—ver Schismaticks and Apostates from the union of the Roman Catholique Church Answ. Theâ— that be in the true Light Chrâ—â—â— Jesus that fathoms the world 〈◊〉 not admire to see the great power of Satan over the sons of Adam in the fall and over all the Schismaticks and Apostates for Schismaticks and Apostates and the sons of Adam in the transgression be all â—n the Devils power where he is in the transgression out of the truth in one power murderers for the Devil a murtheâ—er sons of Adam mâ—râ—herers in the fall out of the truth Schismaticks and Apostates out of the truth murtherers and will all murther and noâ—â—dmired at with the children of Light who has tryed their spirits So Devil sons of Adam in the fall and Papists and Protestants that will all murther for Religion and worship be all in the Devils power Murtherers out of the truth that Christ and the Apostles was in so the Roman Catholique Church which will murther is Satans synagogue for he is the murtherer and there he hath his seat And all the Protestants that be murtherers about Religion and worship are Satans synagogue are Apostates and Schismatâ—cks as well as you they were the first great synagogue of Satan and the first Apostates and Schismaticks from the life of the Apostles and Christ though since the dayes of the Apostles you have apostatized from the life others has professed against you and so are broken into heaps and names Satan has got up many synagogues in many parts of the world and gotten the sheeps cloathing and cryed up himself to be the name of Châ—â—stian which is meer Antichrist quite against him compelling all by sword or faggot or prison or stocks or whips or houses of Correction or Gaols or Inquisitions to worship him This is quite against Christ the Apostles spirit in the apostasie from them apostatized So you may strange to see the Devils power over the sons of Adam Apostates and Schismaticks and not see your selves swallowed up in the Devils power doing his work Thus judging others not seeing your selves for the Devill sons of Adam in the fall from the truth and you who are apostatized from Christ and the Apostles Doctrine and the Schismaticks that be from you in words and sects and names that be called Protestants that will murther for Religion and Worship they be all in the same power which the Devil is in for the Devil is out of the truth the sons of Adam out of the truth and the church of Rome out of the truth apostatized Protestants and all others that be out of the spirit that gave forth the Scriptures be out of the truth such are murthering one another about words and are Satans synagogues wreâ—â—ling against flesh and blood Striking at creatures in stead of striking at the power that captivates creatures to the intent that creatures might come into the liberty of the Sons of God which was the work of the Apostles and Christ Pr. No man can discern head or foot of the Quakers method or order yet there is some shew of reason in their Quaeries Answ. Thus he confounds himself Babylon And we do believe that neither the Papists Apostates Protestants nor sons of Adam nor Dâ—vill out of the truth can know either head or foot of the Quakers principles with all their thinkings for the Quakers is come into that which the Devil is out of sons of Adam is out of the Papists are out of and the Protestants that which overwhelmes them all Devill sons of Adam Papists Protestants out of the life of God with it are they all judged which Life the Quakers are in Pr. He saith not one Papist that he knows doth call himselfe a defender of the Faith yet he saith in a sense in writing against our principles he might call himself a Defender of the Catholique Church and Faith and yet notwithstanding he could not defend himselfe from the Devill Answ. In this thou hast shewed thy faith and the faith of the Catholique Church which will not defend you from the Dâ—vill so ye are the reprobates from the faith of the Elect that quenches the fiery darts of the Devill and gives victory over the world and the Devill and is their shield and with that faith is his Kingdom subdued And we do believe that the faith will not defend you from the Devill and if thou knowest never a Papist that is a Defender of the Catholique Faith what have you done with all the fires and faggots and inquisitions and killings and slayings and writing of your great Volumns against them that have protested against you all this time but now your faith fails and your wheel is gone off and the confusion of Babylon is confounded and the faith of Gods Elect contended for witnessed amongst them called Quakers whose weapons are not carnall but spirituall And your wicked Priests and such as be in the reprobate sence like Judas betraying the just have been the Preachers and Teachers which has gotten the form of godlinesse but are out of the power and the life and these are them that have risen against the Saints and overcome them which are now warring against the Lamb and the Saints but the Lamb and the Saints shall have the victory Pr. And whereas you say you give the title of holinesse to the Pope after the same manner as was given to the high Priest in the Old Testament and wicked Magistrates was called gods and the Priests wear their titles upon their breasts and Jacob called his wicked brother Esau Lord and there is Scriptures enough to give honourable titles to wicked men Answ. These are
sutable proofs for the Pope and sutable examples First the Priest-hood is ended they were never in that latitude neither are you to be measured with them neither do any true Christians As for Esau and wicked Magistrates the fruits of this amongst you has appeared and the wicked must bow before the just and Esau the elder must be a seruant to the younger and salvation is come out of Sion who judges the mount of Esau and is gathering the elect Jacob who rides over the high places of the earth which have set up your Images but you have shewed the fruits of Esau who are slaying and killing the just But who be in the power of Christ who hath all power in heaven and earth given unto him be out of Esau's and be o' th top on his mount and answers the Elect. Pr. He saith that Purgatory is a temporall punishment to faithfull persons after death who have not done due pennance for their sins in their life time so must do pennance after death Answ. The faithful persons that be in the true faith of Gods Elect which is the mistery held in a pure conscience which gives victory over the world purifies the heart by which men are justified and please God This gives them victory over death sin hell and all that which you do pennance for Now they that be reprobate concerning this faith are doing pennance all their lifetime and say they must have a Purgatory to do pennance when their life is ended and so all poor people you have a pittiful thing to passe through a fire before you be purified And as for Christs and the Apostles and Saints sufferings you are found in that nature that caused the just always to suffer and as for your Doctrine of Purgatory it is come up since the days of the Apostles amongst the Apostates the Devill has set it up who is out of the truth by his power since he set up his Synagogue but who be in the faith be over his Purgatory and synagogues and the Doctrine of it which is come up since the dayes of the Apostles for which there is no Scripture for the Saints which believed had passed from death to life and so from the Purgatory For purgatory is in the death he that passeth from it comes over Purgatory and death both to reigne with Christ here you shew your selves you are not believers Pr. The receiving of the Sacrament thou saist is not for the cleansing of you from sin but for the nourishment of your souls the body and blood of Christ being in it Answ. Why do you and the Protestants kill one another about such things seeing that you say the body and blood of Christ is in the Sacrament the bread and wine And the Protestants say in it is the spirit of Christ as you may look in a book called the Scotch Principles and in their Catechisms and is it not the same blood that cleanseth which nourishes How are you confused in this and put to your shifts I have heard talk of Papists and Jesuites were witty men but I see it is at an end and that which nourishes the immortall soule is not the mortal creatures ye are deceived in thinking so and the Protestants both that which nourishes the soul is Christ the power of God who is the Bishop of it the life the truth the power of God which is the immortall souls food and not the bread that will perish and things that will perish which those looked after that followed Christ for a time which was in the perishing minde which laboured after the perishing things and laboured not for the bread which comes downe from above which indures to eternall life which who eats of it hungers no more And so that is the Devils doctrine and the apostates which is got up since the days of the Apostles which tels people after they have consecrated the bread and wine it is the body and blood of Christ which Christ said bread would perish for his flesh saw no corruption Nor his body would not perish nor his blood that cleanseth from the dead works through which blood they overcome death and the word and power gives every creature its being without the consecration but that which nourishes the immortal soul is the mortal and man lives not by bread alone but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God and this is Christs doctrine and the others is the Devils and apostates out of the life and power of Christ that saith men must live by bread alone Pr. Christ useth the Priest in the hands of a workman to make the Sacrament which is the body and bloud of Christ he saith that the formes of bread and wine which will corrupt cannot take away sin And after consecration it is not bread and wine but the very body and bloud of Christ Answ. In this you have shewed your confusion and unestablished state was it the very body and bloud of Christ that made the Corinthians drunk and in this thou hast confounded thy self in saying that the formes of bread and wine which is the very body and bloud of Christ will corrupt after consecration then the Ministers work in this thou hast spoyled who are the consecraters for the body and bloud of Christ will not corrupt nor perish which bread and wine will but that which gives bread and wine their being will never corrupt for bread and wine is a thing that is seen and though the Apostle said what he had received of the Lord that did he deliver to the Corinthians how that the same night the Lord Jesus was betrayed he took the cup and the bread when he had given thanks saying as oft as they did eate that bread and drink that cup they shewed the Lords death till he came and the Apostles delivered this to the Corinthians then in the second Epistle he brings them off from the things that are seen to the things vvhich are not seene which were eternal for bread and wine were things seen and temporal and bids them prove and examin themselves whether or no Christ was come know you not your own selves how that Jesus Christ is in you except you be reprobates and he is the living bread that came down from above who gives life unto the world and he that eates of this bread lives and abides for ever And as for thy word Sacrament we do not find that word expressed in Scripture nor where the Apostles spoke by Mary as you do who adore your own words that are Apostatized from the life them that witness Christ the substance in them they see the end of all things is come Christ Jesus him by whom all things was made who is the end of all things him is possest Such are not reprobates but reprobates and Judas may stick in the outward things as the Jewes did whose table was a trap and eyes blinded as you do who are inwardly ravened from the
heresies and lying signes which is your crosse who are gone from the power of God which is the cross of Christ who are them which the Spirit spoke of expresly before the Apostles decease that should depart from the faith forbidding eating of meats and marriage which is the Divels doctrin who has given heed to seducing spirits now you may see it is your Mother which you call the Church which is the Mother of Harlots which your Mother harlotted from the true Church the Apostles doctrin for the true Church of the Apostles did never command that men should abstayn from meats or set up a crosse of wood or stone or worship Images or Saints or names or bow down to them but worship God and worship not the Angels Now these things hath been sett up since the dayes of the Apostles in the Apostacy from the true Church which has made war against the Saints and over-come them but now is the Saints and the Lamb come to have victory and now the Lamb and Saints will have victory who is come to reign and the holy Prophets and the Saints shall rejoyce over you sing and rejoyce ye heavens and rejoyce ye Saints and holy Prophets over her That 's your Church which is inwardly ravened from the spirit of God and has reigned over the Kings of the earth and all other that hath had the name of Christianity out of the life of Christ found in your skirts the Lamb will tread you together in the press without the City of the living God the Church which is the Pillar and ground of truth against which the gates of hell cannot prevail though they may fall all on heaps one among another about their worships And we say that your Mother the Church so called hath commanded and laid the foundation of tythes amongst the Protestants and all their observing of Saints dayes holy dayes and you have been them that has taught them to give the names yea to their Schooles Colleges Steeple-houses which were your mass-houses which the Protestants has made their Churches of them you were the first root and layer of the ground and Author of them you and they are all judged with the Spirit which is not Apostacy which was before Apostacy was Pr. I say again that Christ is not without a body and the same body which is in the Sacrament is that which was born of the Virgin Mary which dyed for us and now sitteth at the right hand of God and none other Answ. Heaven is above and earth is beneath there is an earthly body and there is a heavenly body a naturall and a spirituall and if that which was born of the Virgin Mary be your bread after consecration which body saw no corruption though put in the grave Now see if your bread which you call the body of Christ will not corrupt after it lye a while though you have consecrated it then how can you say that is the body of Christ at the right hand of God and outward bread which will corrupt which the body of Christ saw none which was born of the Virgin the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world yet he did not corrupt nor saw no corruption Pr. And to say is Christ to be looked for in the Saints is so profound that he cannot reach the depth of the meaning the Roman Catholiques use no such manner of speech Answ. I do believe you Since the dayes of the Apostles amongst you that are got up in your likenesses and Images that sayes its so profound you cannot reach the meaning of it to ask you whether Christ be in the Saints and amongst the Roman Catholiques you have no such manner of speech I do believe you And so you put him in the Sacrament without you and call the bread and wine his body and blood so this is to prove your selves to be reprobates so are judged by the Apostles doctrine and the Scripture Know you not in your own selves how that Jesus Christ is in you except ye be reprobates Priest The more honour we give to Saints the more honour we give to Christ Indeed to give godly honour to Saints is to commit idolatry Answ. If that you do not give godly honour to the Saints it is ungodly and here in this you have again confounded your selves and that honour which belongs to the Saints is of God and godly and not idolatry but that honour which you give which is not godly is given to such which are not Saints which is idolatry and so that honour which you should give to God you give to Images in kneeling to them and so in that you are as the heathen and are found idolaters which never did any of the Apostles kneel before an Image but you that inwardly ravened from the Spirit of God and so lost the image of God and fallen down to Images Pr. A Crosse a Crucifix or an Image of Christ or any Saint whether they be made of silver stone or wood are according to our doctrine but dead creatures neverthelesse are profitable and honourable memorials of them and do much help our devotion and demonstrate our love and affection to them and they are not Idols but they represent unto us Christ and his Saints Answ. So then they being but dead things and you bowing to dead things is to Idols for bowing to a dead stock or a stone is a bowing to Idols as saith the Prophet and dead images Now you having them as you say to represent unto you Christ and to put you in minde of him and the Saints shews that you have not Christs spirit in you nor him in you nor his mind in you so are reprobates and are none of his for those that have Christ in them and his minde in them need no such representations as to put them in minde of Christ or to fall down before Crosses Crucifixes Images dead things to stir up the love towards Châ—ist which the blood of Christ purgeth the conscience from dead workes and not to bow down to dead Images but thiâ— shews the love of God is not in you Dead things do not stirre up the love of God in people but the faith which works by love this stirs up the love towards Christ who is the Author of it and the Saints to make Images of the Saints and observing of dayes shews that you are not come to just mens spirits which who are need no other thing to put them in mind nor observe dayes for they see over dayes and so in these principles I see ye are reprobates concerning the faith which works by love for the love of God is not in you you are not come to the jâ—st mens spirits so not to the Church of the living God the mind of Christ you have not his spirit ye have not and Christ is not in you and so in the reprobation in the apostacy and are fain to have dead Images and pictures and crosses dead
the same bread and the same wine of the which you have consecrated part and set them both together and let us have a watch over them seven of our side and seven of your side and see if that bread and wine do not corrupt and perish which ye have consecrated as well as the other which is not consecrated and prove not divine and prove not immortall but mortall as the other and if the bread and wine change not its taste then we will say it 's the body of Christ if it do not and ye will not prove deceivers But if it prove bread and wine and loose its taste and alter its property then acknowledg your selves to be deceivers but if it corrupt not but prove the body of Christ then the Protestants may acknowledge they have wronged you and be of your religion but if that prove to be bread and prove to be wine and mortall and not divine then shall you deny all your religion and acknowledge that you have wronged the Protestants and turn to the Truth So if you dare adventure to try your Christ openly and bring him out to the Light and see whether he will stand and whether he will not corrupt for the flesh of Christ which the Scripture speaks of saw no corruption So now if you will take a publique consideration and give a publique meeting after send to any of them in England called Quakers and let there be a publique tryall and his word that comes to passe shall be the true Prophet and his word that doth not shall be the false Prophet which ye are if the bread and wine corrupt and prove not divine and immortall These things have been taught for Doctrines about which there hath been fightings slaying and killing and much blood spilt so that your weapons are but carnall and not spiâ—ituall and there hath beene a great deale of profession of these things and a great denyall Now if you will try them publiquely if they stand you will come off with honour and give over fighting and killing one another about Religion but in patience and meeknesse let it be tryed and this will bring truth to light and honour to God If you dare not come to the light to a publique tryall and ye being so many Nations and Dominions acknowledge your selves to be Apostates and Deceivers and so fall under the truth and let the white horse go over you 13 Prin. I hold most constantly that there is one Purgatory and that the souls that are therein retained are helped by the supplications of the faithful 14 Prin. Likewise that one ought to honour and invoke or pray to the Saints which reigne with Jesus Christ and that they offer to God their supplication for us and that one ought to honour their Reliques Answ. The Scripture speaks of no purgatory and he that believes hath passed from death unto life and shall never dye nor come into condemnation And the wicked shall be turned into hell and all that forget God and death and hell must go into the lake of fire and God who breathed the breath of life into man by which man became a living soul he hath all souls in his hand and the honour which the Scripture speaks of it is owned but the honour which is given to the Saints from that are you apostatized and so your praying to Saints and for the dead is in the purgatory already your souls in the death so your soules are lean who feeds your fleshly minds with similitudes images Crosses Crucifixes old Reliques pieces of cloath or old bones which you call reliques of Saints so are full of dead mens bones a generation of murderers whose souls stands lean and bound and captivated and wants the vertue of the immortall food 15 Prin. I assure most firmely that one ought to have and to hold the Image of Jesus Christ and of the Mother of God alwayes Virgin and of the other Saints and render to them the honour and the veneration which appertains to them 16 Prin. I affirm yet that Jesus Christ hath left in the Church the power of Indulgences and that the use thereof is extreamly healing unto the people christian Answ. The power which ye have set up in your Church which gives the honour to the Image of Mary the Image of Christ and the other Saints that I do believe you that which you should give to Christ you give to Images but this doth but shew and make you manifest to be apostatizâ—d from the Apostles who had the minde of Christ and the image of the Son of God in them so this Church and its power is apostatized from the true Church and its power who are giving honour to the image of Christ Mary and the Saints which was not the work of the Apostles and Mary their saying ever a Virgin had not she children after to Joseph and when they said behold thy mother and thy brethren stand without desiring to speak with thee c. Is this the rise and ground of this word God-father and God-mother when your children are sprinkled Papists and Protestants 17 Prin. I know the holy Church Catholique Apostolique and Romane to be the Mother and Mistris of all the Churches and promise and swear true obedience to the Bishop of Rome successor of St. Peter Prince of the Apostles and Vicar of Jesus Christ Answ. I do believe you your Church as you call it Catholique is the Mistress and hath been the Mother of all Churches false of Babylon and the mother of the harlots from the true Church the Apostles and Saints was in in the Apostacy which hath been held up by the Sword Fires Faggots Inquisitions of the Popes and quite out of the faith of Peter who said render to no man evill for evill but if any man offend you ye will render evill again And for saying Peter was the Prince will ye give Paul the lye who said he came behinde none of the Apostles And Christ said He that would be greatest should be least and that there should be no Lordship exercised amongst them one over another And every man should have but his penny that went into the Vineyard 18 Prin. I receive also and professe without any doubt all other things which have been taught defined and declared by the sacred Canons and Councels universall and principally by the sacred holy Councel of Trent together all things contrary and all the heresies condemned rejected and anathematized by the Church I them condemn reject and anathematize likewise Answ. I do believe you who are bound up in the Apostacy from the true Church of the Apostles to that which your Councell hath set up without doubt but your tryall is not yet come and your selves you do not know as for that because your Councell Pope and Bishop their traditions of their own inventions and profession and Church and all things belonging to it hath been held up by an outward Sword Fires Faggots
such which Peter speakes of to be in Corahs Cains Balaams way so your fruits declares and thus you are contrary to Christ and the Apostles and true Church separated from them and such as the Apostle declares against hath made up your Church Have not you been the first birth of the Devil since the dayes of the Apostles Murderers and killers about formes and traditions and Images and outward Churches and Ministers made by mens wills is not Cains fruits the vagabond from God appeared among you murderers destroyers Did the Apostles kill slay and burn had they their Inquisitions like you and do not you all wear Cains mark and Balaams mark on your foreheads and the Devils colours the murderer that is out of Truth has not his flagge been hung out among you All that denies your Religion and worshipping your Images Crosses and all your Ministers made by the will of men and Temples made with mens hands its death by fire Inquisition or Wracks and the devil is he that destroyes the creatures but the power of God destroyes him lets up the soul and brings the creature into liberty Christ saith My body I will give for the life of the World And Christ saith He is from above and he is not earthly The first man is of the earth earthly So after you have consecrated your bread and wine if you will come to an open tryall and proof that may openly bee proved and seen whether or no your bread and wine is not below after consecration and will waste and consume which Christ his flesh sees no corruption his body is the Church and is bread and wine after you have consecrated it the Church or do you call your selves the Church at Rome or do you call your selves the body of Christ do you call the very bread and wine the very body and blood of Christ after you have consecrated iâ— and so the very Church and then where are you the Church and have you not set bread and wine over you and you sâ—y Christs body was humane that 's the first Adam earthly the second is the Lord from heaven and after you have consecrated Bread and Wine if it be humane that signifies earthly that shews the creatures as they were before your consecration and so not the body of Christ and as oft as you do eat this bread and drink this cup yâ— do shew forth the Lords death till he come That signifies that he and his body was not present for where his body is there needs no representation for it was in the night in which he was betrayed that he gave them the cup for remembrance and do you take it in the night and follow the practise of Christ and his Disciples which is in remembrance of him which is the cup of the New Testament in his blood This do as oft as ye do it in remembrance of me This was in the night Now the Apostle bid the Corinthians that the end of the world was come to examine themselves and prove their own selves that they might know their own selves how that Jesus Christ was in them except they were reprobates and if Christ was in them what need they to have bread and wine to put them in Remembrance of him Friend 1 WHo was the first Author or setter forth of all your Pictures your Crosses your Crucifixes your Images and what was their names seeing that the Apostles and Teachers and Ministers did not set forth such things in the Church but witnessed against Idols and that they might keep themselves from Idols and that they were not to look at things that were seen as in the Epistles of John and to the Corinthians And are not images pictures crucifixes crosses things that be seen And the things that are seen are temporall but the things that are not seen are eternall and is not it which set up these things that which denyed the power of God 2 How is it that you set up Tythes seeing that the Apostle witnessed against the Priest-hood that took tythes and said the Law was changed and the commandement disannulled that gave them And though Abraham gave tythes to Melchisedeck the similitude the son of God is come the end of the similitude and likenesse and who was the first beginner of them amongst you 3 Who was the first Author that gave ye the commands for the observing of dayes holy dayes Saints dayes seeing the Apopostle and the Saints which were in the true Church brought the Saints off days yea the days which God had commanded to Christ the substance and said there was not any name under heaven by which a man should be saved but his name and what they were to do they were to do in the name of Christ And when they cryed Paul Apollo or Cephas he rebuked them are not all you come under rebuke now that are crying up names days meats drinks which the Kingdom of Heaven stands not in and so has lost the power and the substance 4 Where did Christ or the Apostles command in the Scripture or the Church practiced that such things forementioned should be done or come after them shew me by Scripture Now if you say that Solomon had a Temple and there were images and an Ark and an Altar those were but figures they were not the substance and when the substance came they ceased Now what does all your dayes crosses crucifixes tythes type forth and who commanded them shew by Scripture where ever Christ or the Apostles commanded any such thing as a Crucifix as a Crosse as Tythes as a Temple as an Altar outward or to pray by Beads shew by the Scriptures where ever the true Apostles true Church or Christians practised any such things or that any such things were amongst them or said that any such things should come after them answer me by plain Scriptures 5 May not a man give all his goods away to the poor and his body to be burned and what will that profit him if he have not love yea love to enemies And how can you love them when you bring them to your Inquisitions or burn or imprison them kill or banish them Now mark are not you of that sect that the Apostle speaks of that may give all your goods away to the poor and your bodies to be burned and yet nothing not having love And what differs your love from that love that may give your goods away and bodies to be burned and yet not have true love And do not you think that you gain by that now and do inherit some righteousness for it and is not that all out of the true righteousnesse which is out of the true love Now the love of God and Christ which was in the Apostles was to love enemies Now if you love your sect and them that be of your worship and observes your customes and burn and prison and kill others that be not of your sect and judgement and observes your customes
Is this the love of Christ Is this the love of God Is this the love that was in the Apostles Did the Apostles do so did Christ do so that had all power c. to all that were not of their minde yea or nay answer 6 What differs your works from the works of the Pharisees for that which they did they did to be seen of men And the young man boasted of his works yet when it came that he should have sold all and followed Jesus the beloved of God there was the hard thing whereby he might have had treasure in heaven And how differs your giving almes from the Pharisees seeing the Pharisees were in your state to murther and murthered the just and you give almes and are found in the same nature that will and do murther them that be contrary minded to you wherein do you here differ from the Pharisees And Châ—ist saith love enemies and you have your Inquisitions and Fagots here his love differed from the Pharisees and yours And saith John Let us love in deed not in word not as Cain the wicked one who slew his brother because his works were righteous the others were evill And saith John He that killeth with the sword must perish with the sword here is the faith and patience of the Saints Now where is your patience that are killing and prisoninâ— And we wrestle not against flesh and blood saith the Apostle but against principalities and powers and spiritual wickednesses in high places How do you wrestle against principalities and powers and spiritual wickednesses in high places Does it not shew that your weapons are carnall and not spiritual while you are prisoning burning making inquisitions for the bodies of people that are contrary to your minde Do not you wrestle against flesh and blood Is not this to wrestle against flesh and blood to prison to burn to kill creatures are not you apostatized from the true Apostles and true Church which is the pillar and ground of truth who said We wrestle not against flesh and blood answer these things by Scripture 7 Do you own the Law and Prophets which is to do as you would be done by would you have all that be contrary to your minde do unto you as you do unto others to make Inquisitionâ— and to burn and to kill them that be contrary to their minde as you have your Inquisitions Fagots Fires for such that be contrary to your minde not observing your customes would you have others do so unto you and serve you so that will not observe your customes Is not to do as you would be done by the Law and the Prophets 8 Did ever Christ or the Apostles give any command that any should be put to death touching worship touching Religion shew me a command in Scripture from Christs or the Apostles mouths Are not they that murther slay and make war the Beast and the false Prophets under the dominion of the mother of Harlots and in the steps of Cain and Jezebel out of the steps of Christ and the Apostles 9 What is will-worship Does any worship God in the spirit truth but who be in that which the Devil is out of Can any being in the spirit and in the truth which the Devil is out of the Murtherer slay any concerning Religion or worship but on the coÌ„trary if they be in the evil overcome it with good Now if you kill murther slay make Inquisitions burn where is patience where is long suffering where is stopping the mouths of gain-sayers concerning gain saying if you cannot you have a fagot for them or a prison or an Inquisition are you not here like unto them that rose against Stephen that were not able to resist his spirit but stoned him to death wherein differs your nature and spirits from these did Stephen do so to others the Apostles were stoned did they do so to others Now this is Christs command he sent them forth as sheep amongst Wolves he sent out Prophets and Wisemen and said some they should kill and some they should thrust out of their Synagogues some they should persecute from City to City and said they should be hated of all men for his names sake and they should speak all manner of evil of them and were these to do so again to others kill hate hale out of Synagogues persecute Nay did not Christ say love enemies blesse them that curse now are not they that are contrary to this out of this Anti-christs and false Apostles 10. Has not the true Ministery true Spirit true Power true Church the true crosse been lost since the dayes of the Apostles and the false Ministery false Prophets false Apostles Antichrists Synagogues of Satan has appeared since which all your Crosses your names your pictures your Images your praying by beads has come up have not you lost the true spirit the Image of the Father and his name by which men are saved and so since run into other names run into Images lost the true Image run into Crosses lost the true Cross the power of God run into praying by beads and lost the true praying in the spirit and is not the Candle put out within and so ye have set up your lights burning without you defiled the Temple of God within and so set up Temples without are they not set up by that which defiles the inward Temple and is not that it which will murther slay prison and bring before Inquisitions which defiles the Temple of God seeing they that witnessed the Temple of God said love enemies and does not it shew that the love of God was there if love enemies which was a command of Christ who are them that are to be persecuted and hated and who are they that you are to slay and kill answer 11 Have you heard the voyce of God immediately from heaven as the Prophets Apostles did have you the same spirit wch Christ and the Apostles had which gave forth the Scriptures which was before they were given forth yea or nay 12. Is that the blood of Christ that is your wine which was shed upon the Cross when Christ was crucified alter you have consecrated it 13. Is that the body of Christ that is your bread after you have consecrated that said Lo a body hast thou prepared me to do the will of God and will not your bread corrupt and let it lye after you have consecrated it and does the body the flesh of Christ see corruption answer 14. What is the ground and cause of all the destractions amongst the called Christians is it not because they have the words of Christ the Prophets and Apostles but be cut of the life of them 15. What is that thing wch four men do carry on staves that all men must bow before it when you carry it in the streets and what do you do it for and where did Christ or the Apostels do any such thing 16. Why do
like they that have a horn to call their hounds together or the Swine-heard for people to put forth Swine or hower-glasses to preach by the hower prove it by scripture else acknowledge your are in the Apostacy and have set up â—hese things by your own inventions and are them that limit the spirit 62. Where did ever the Apostles consecrate any thing or the scripture speak of Sacraments or where did the Apostles use that which you call holy Water to sprinkle people withal if you cannot shew it by scripture where the Apostles or Christ diâ— practise any such thing acknowledge your selves that you be in the Apostacy that have set up such things since the dayes of the Apostles and erred from the true Church in your inventions 63. Where did the Apostles when they went to preach or to pray put on white Hoods Copes Tippets white Surplisses and cornered Caps are not all these things got up since the dayes of the Apostles amongst such as are apostatâ—zâ—d from them 64. Who are the inwardly Raveners that Christ said should come which was the false Prophets which should have the Sheeps clothing but inwardly ravening Wolves an inwardly ravening Wolf worse then a dog which got the sheeps clothing is not this it that has made war against the Saints that kept the testimony of Jesus the Spirit of prophesy and has not the wolf been covered with the sheeps clothing long such as ravined from the spirit such as has inwardly ravened and would ravine and destroy all that be contrary minded 65. Have not men fallen into the flesh since the dayes of the Apostacy and ravined from the spirit that went forth from the Apostles are not they them that has set up all these outward things as Temples Tythes Priests crosses crucifixes Schooles Colledges to make them Ministers Images Idols Abbies Nunneries Candels Altars Holy waters Praying by Beads sprinkling children with the sign of the crosse and have not you gone back who are ravened from the spirit and so lost the substance and so imitating Aaron and his Sons and imitating Altars and outward things that stood in Moses which the Apostle sayes while Moses was read the veil was over their hearts 66. Was not the first Priest-hood a true tipe and the Temple a true tipe of the inward and the Sanctuary and Altar a tipe and the outward things in the Law shadowing forth the good things that were to come which were but to have their times and seasons and did not the Apostle witnesse the substance of all tipes figures and shadows and signs and similitudes and likenesses and witnessed that which gave him to see where there was no shadow nor changing Now are not all your tythes Temples Priests Altars Crosses Crucifixes Images Similitudes Beads Cloysters Abbies Nunneries set up by your own inventions which men and people has been compelled to worship are not all these lying signs and wonders and the worship of the beast that which they that inwardly ravened set up and is not this to give worship to them that inwardly ravined from the spirit of God who are the Wolves that â—an make a profession of Christs and the Apostles words the Beast and false Prophets which the world has wondred after and should deceive them with their lying signes and wonders Did not the Apostles give hints of such things before their decease did not John see such come as the whole world went after and all that dwelt upon the earth worshipped the Beast Now answer me these things and clear me them by Scripture where the Apostles did practise or act any such things before mentioned and if ye be not such that John and the Apostles speaks of and Christ that should be the inward ravening wolves and go forth from the Apostles which John saw all that dwelt upon the earth worshipped and went after and all that dwelt upon the earth drunk the cup of fornication and should deceive them that dwell upon the earth with their lying signes and wonders and miracles and if you be not them tell me who they are 67 What is the Beast and the number of his names and what are his names and what is his marke that they that would not receive should be persecuted And what is his image and what are his heads and what are his crowns and what is the mother of the harlots and what is the great whore which hath corrupted the earth and what is the cup of fornication that all Nations has drunk of and who are the Beast and false Prophets what are they that are come up since the dayes of the Apostles How to say you believe as the Church believes and you will not trouble your selves about the Scriptures because they are hard to â—e understood you are to see that you be of the Church that the Apostles were of which was the pillar and ground of truth which was without spot or wrinkle or blemish and so their belief stood in Christ and God And when any did wrong yea Peter Peter was withstood and not believed as he believed And as for saying the Scriptures are hard to be understood that is to shew you want the spiâ—it as was in them that gave them forth in which is the unity and the bond of peace And none comes to be a member of the Church in God the pillar and ground of truth without spot or wrinkle or blemish but who comes into the spirit that they were in that gave forth the Scriptures with which spirit every one in particular hath his particular satisfaction in the Scripture it opens it to them with which spirit he hath unity with God unity with the Scriptures of whom they learned that gave them forth and there is the bond of peace Now to tye up men to believe as others believe and to compell them by a law or a prison or an inquisition this was not in the true Church but this is a marke of the apostacy from it and is a marke that they that do so are the wresters of the Scriptures and err'd ravened from the spirit that they were in that gave them forth For it was not their worke to compell people by a Law by a prison by an Inquisition to obey their faith and to bring them into their worship and doctrine that was not the worke of them that had the spirit that gave forth the Scriptures but this shews and signifies and declares it selfe forth that you would have power over mens faith which saith the Apostles we have not but bade them look at Jesus the author of the faith And again to believe as others believe which do call themselves a Church Is not this different from the Apostles doctrine who saith he that believes hath the witnesse in himself and hast thou faith have it to thy self 68 Is your Church the body of Christ and is your bread the body of Christ after consecration and is that bread after you have consecrated it the Church
Is that the body of Christ the Church for the Apostle saith the body of Christ which is the Church 69 Is God worshipped in truth but in the spirit that gave forth the Scriptures and in that which the Devil is out of Now can any of you worship God in the truth unlesse you be in the spirit that gave forth the Scriptures then being in the spirit that gave forth the Scriptures how can you say that the Scripture is hard to be understood or any that be in the Church seeing the true Church is made up of living stones and the Scripture was given forth from the spirit 70 And whereas it is a generall word to say you believe as the Church believes and the Scriptures are hard to be understood Doth not this shew that you be all afraid of your standing and shew that your Church is in the state of apostacy from the Apostles and Disciples of the Lord Jesus that there is a cry amongst you the Scripture is hard to be understood And we must believe as the Church believes and the Church is the Pope and his Councel Now if he or his Councel dare not venture to try their standing to meet the spirit of God and to answer these Qâ—eries or all his train that be under him then shall we know and then shall it be seen who is the true Church and who are the apostates and set up a likenesse an Image And if you do shelter your selves in the darkness and not come forth to the light and dare not venture your Principles and is afraid of the heat and for fear that your heads should be cut or slashed and your principles dasht to pieces and see that your weapons will not carry you out and that your righteousnesse is but as rags and you have been but wolves covered with the sheeps cloathing and have been devourers of the Lambs and can do nothing without your swords and carnall weapons and your Inquisitions then may the whole world see you Therefore come out I challenge you all and give an answer either in print or in writing and bring your deeds to light that they may be manifested to the whole earth and declared on the house-top our weapons are not carnall with which we shall handle you neither need you fear your persons neither need you be afraid that we will wrestle with flesh and blood for that which was amongst the Apostles is come to that which hath been since the Apostles is seen The arm of flesh is not our weapons but the Lord of hosts Come thou Pope with all thy Jesuites and Cardinals and see if thou can stand this day before the truth for these queries be to the whole body and thee scattered up and down the face of the whole earth and the power of the Lord God of life of heaven and earth is gone over you and hath fathomed you 71 Was it the work of the Christians to be beating Dâ—ums up and down fighting destroying one another where has been loving enemies where has been overcoming evill with good and rendring to no man evill for evill 72 Doth not Christ say It hath been said of old time thou shalt perform thy oath unto the Lord But doth not he say swear not at all Now ye swearers have not you bâ—oken Christs command and have apostatized from his doctrine but if ye say the Prophets swore or Abraham swore or David swore or Solomon swore or Moses swore or the Priests swore Christ is the end of the Prophets and Priesthood a greater then Solomon then Joseph or Jacob Before Abraham was I am who saith swear not at all Now if you say did not the Apostles say an oath was an end of controversie and strife amongst men that men swore by the greater which the Apostle brings as an example shewing how God could not finde a greater and therefore swore by himselfe concerning his covenant that doth not change betwixt God and man in which covenant man comes to have peace with God Now if ye say did not the Angel swear in the Revelations I bring forth my first begotten into the world and let all the Angels worship him and this is the beloved Son heare ye him saith God And above all things my brethren saith the Apostle swear not at all neither by heaven nor by earth lest ye fall into condemnation So are not all you swearers fallen under condemnation and out of the Apostles doctrine and apostatized from it Nay is not the power which you call your supream under the condemnation and Magistrates that are swearers and giving oaths no Christian Magistrates but they and their power is all under condemnation all swearers upon the earth for saith the Apostle Above all things my brethren swear not at all left ye fall into condemnation So are not ye swearers who calls your selves a Church Pope Magistrates all upon the earth under condemnation and out of the doctrine of the Apostles false brethren and out of the power of Christ who has all power in heaven and eâ—rth given unto him who saith let your yea be yea and your nay nay in all your communications who is the end of oaths whose doctrine the Apostles preached and abode in Now are not all Churches Teachers powers Magistrates under condemnation that be the swearers and not the help-government to Christ out of the higher power all Magistrates from under the higher power that be swearers and out of Christs power and help Magistracy and government for him who has all power in heaven earth given unto him and out of the Apostles Doctrine and Christs Doctrine who saith Let all your communication be yea yea and nay nay for whatsoever is more is evill And so how can a company of swearers be a Church or the supream power which are the Beasts and false Prophets apostatized from the Apostles and Christs Doctrine and them that inwardly ravened from it and has had the shâ—eps cloathing that tear and rend all in pieces that will not come into the wolves way and bow down to that which he has set up and so therefore is the cry amongst you the Scripture is hard to be understood and you are tyed to believe as yoâ—â— Church believes so by that means you have held the out-side the sheeps cloathing and pretend to be saved by your works and meritâ— when the wolfe has been in your hearts tearing to pieces and rend and devour them that will not believe as you believe I cannot gainsay you in this as for your saying the Scriptures are hard to be understood when you are all ravened from the spirit that gave them forth 73 Where did ever any of the Saints change their names unlesse they had a command for it as ye do when ye are made Popes Did Peter change his name 74 Where was it amongst the Apostles that some might not marry and they might not at some times of the yeare marry but at those times they might