manye suche hobbers now adayes God giue vs grace to beware by your example and to take héede of such cold play Hardyng ¶ As for your respectes to saye truely I neuer knew what they were At the gaming of your Gospell you shote to strike downe the true and reall body of Christ onâ— of the blessed sacrament of the aulter with certaine phrases of spech with telling the people of your tropes and figures with comparing the Eucharist to the baptisme with making the preseÌ„ce of Christ like in both You bend your force to strike away the eternall and singuler sacrifice of the church with such a sort and forme as I hetherto neuer vsed and yet thinke to be very straunge as for example with teaching as you do that missa signifieth not the masse but your CoÌ„munioÌ„ that Eucharistia is to be taken not for the sacrament consecrate but for common bread wherewith one Bishop did present another That Melchisedech and Malachias signified the sacrifice of your coÌ„munion wherat the people lift vp their handes and hartes as you say vnto heauen praieth and sacrificeth togither reioysing in the Lorde That in the sacrament of the aultar ther is no vertue nor grace but when it is vsed no more then in water after that one is baptised That ther is no difference betwixt the priest and the people in the holy ministerie of the sacrifice and that lay folke meÌ„ and women do make the sacrifice and be priestes after the order of Melchisedech that God is the author of euill and driueth men to sin Many other such sortes and formes of shooting you and your companions vse at this daye with which I was neuer acquainted as nether any man liuing can burthen me and God is witnesse which to me is a sufficient discharge Wherfore you do me the greater wrong in that you say I taught your Cospell euen in like sorte and forme and in all respectes as it is taught nowe Dering But you procéede at your rouers and tel an vncertaine tale of the respectes of your preachinges You saye you neuer preached against transubstanciation These are vaine repetitions to fill vp your paper How coulde you preach against such filthynesse of the Sea of Rome that were alwaies hobbing and neuer preached out Christ in the simplicitye of his Gospell I am easily perswaded that you neuer did it seing whervnto you are againe returned But whether you did it or no one day it shalbe reuealed All these pointes here alledged are fully discussed in Maister Iuells Replye And good reader leaue of hobbers instruction with the formest shootâ— at the very marke which is Iesus Christ and thou shalt soone perceiue what is his truth Now for thy better instruction I will speake of those markes which are laid out as breâ—fly as I can First this transubstanciation was first mentioned in the councell of Laterane .1215 yeare after Christ. And corpus Christi daye instituted in Vrbanus tyme more then .40 yeares after that So thou séest the antiquity is but of late yeares it hath no warrant in scriptures as their owne doctors Fisher Biell and Scotus doo witnesse How it disagreeth both from scriptures and Doctours M. Iuels Reply hath aboundantlye taught thée Yet for thy better furtherance I will laye before thee for thyne instruction certaine of those places which ouerturne this fonde Doctrine Thou must first consider that this sacrament and Baptisme are the two sacraments that Christ hath left vnto his church which two were prefigured in the olde lawe baptisme in circumcision especially and the Eucharist in the pascall Lambe Now for the true vnderstanding of these Sacramentes thou must remember that the Scripture vseth in them suche a phrase of speakinge that the thynge signified is giuen vnto the signe So of Circumcision whych God had commaunded Abraham the scripture expressely saith this is my couenant yet was it the signe of his couenaunt Of the pascall Lambe it is saide this is the Lordes passeouer yet was it but a token of the passage of the Angell Likewyse of the rock Paul speaketh The rocke was Christ which was yet but a figure of Christ and the sacrifices are saide to be the purifiynges yet were they but a token of ther sanctification And as this was spoken thus in the figure so it is now in the truth S. Paule calleth baptisme lauacrum regenerationis the washinge of the new birth yet it is but a signe of the inward renewynge of the holye Ghost In like sorte it is written baptizare c. he baptised and washed away thy sinnes Yet baptisme was but a token that his sinnes were washt away So Peter baptismus nos quoque saluos reddit yet it is but the seale of our saluation The holy Ghost must come vpon them before they receiue grace In like maner it is saide of the other parte of this Sacrament This cuppe yet the holye Ghost meaneth the wine It is sayd further this cup is the new Testament yet the wyne is not the same but a token of it The newe testameÌ„t is that God is our God and we are his people that he hath forgiuen our iniquity and that he will remember our sinnes no more But wo be vnto that man that shall looke onelye to be saued by that which is in the Priestes Chalice What madnesse is it then séeing this maner of speaking is so vsuall to the Sacraments to choose onely this sentence of our Sauiour Christ this is my body which thou wilt receiue with out figure when neither the scripture it selfe doth alowe it nor the phrase of the spirite of God so often vttered vnto vs doth inforce it I neede not here to recite the playne sayinges themselues which literally layed togither can not stand this is my body saith Christ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which now giuen for you yet Christes body was not then betrayed So saint Peter 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is broken for you yet was not his body then crucified whereby they are inforced yea euen in the same sentence to forsake the letter And for the better assuraunce that we may doe this vpon a good warrant we haue the exposition of our sauiour Chirst it is the spirite that quickneth the flesh profiteth nothing The words that I speake vnto you are spirite and life And saint Paule doth cal it bread euen when it is ministred The bread which we breake is it not the communion of the bodye of Christ This is sufficient for him that will vnderstand how these woordes are taken this is my body He that wil yet stick vnto the letter let him further consider the saying of Saint Paule that the letter killeth and manye other sayings of the scripture which be in like maner as thys is spoken of our sauiour Christ. The woord was made flesh saith S. Iohn yet the deitie of Christ which is the woorde was not turned into man My Father
place whereunto you direct vs hath no such saying Thus it hath In my iudgement this woord Eucharistia in this place of Irenaeus signifieth not the sacrament alreadye consecrate but rather other common breade After this he alledgeth thrée sundrie aucthorities that it maye be so taken and in fine hée sayth how be it herein I will not striue Other wordes then these Maister Iuell hath none and is this to say Eucharistia is not the sacrament Hath he any such absolute saying Or doth he affirme any whit at all O that the Replie had bene of M. Hardings penning he would then sure haue good matter against it Now it is the bishops own doing he can say little and not corrupt his woordes But marke Christian Reader in this shooting what ill fauoured feathers he hath vpon hys arrowes The vpmost is corruption of M. Iuels woordes the 2. that lye vpon the bow the one is deceite the other ignorāce The corruption is already manifest the deceite is where he would haue thée to thinke that Eucharistia might not signifie bread but where euer it were found it shoulde make for hys transubstantiation The ignorance is in that he maketh it so straunge a thing that Eucharistia might signifie breade not yet consecrate When in his popish Masse before consecration the bread and wyne are called sancta illibata sacrificia holye and immaculate sacrifices Concerning the word Eucharistia it is found in the new testament often times yet alway signifying either open thanks giuing or else thankfulnes of the minde so in that the sacrament is called Eucharistia it is a good argument against transubstanciation An other marke that Maister Harding could not shoote at is concerning the prophesie of Malachie that it shoulde signifie the sacrifice of our Cōmunion Of this mark reade the vntruth An other make is this that in the sacramēt of the aultare ther is no vertue but when it is vsed This marke saith he was out of my reach But if he say true he is then but a bragger eyther he hath not read so much as he pretendeth or else he is a loytering truant 〈◊〉 that hath forgot so good a lesson In this one thing he offendeth both waies the godly in that he wil not shoote at that marke which the holy Ghost hath set vp the vngodly and men of his owne deuotion in that he denyeth any vertue to be in the water of baptisme but when one is christined For if it be so why sing they ouer that water where none is christined sis fons viuus aqua regenerans vnda purificans c. be thou a liuing spring a water of new birth a water that doth purifie c. Maister Harding cannot deny how merily this hath bene song in Colledges yet none haue bene christined I trow among them And a Doctor of their own side saith si Asinus bibit aquam illam bibit sacramentum if an Asse drinke that water hee drinketh the sacrament Whereby it appeareth they repose vertue in the water though none be baptised Yet in this opinion they agrée not Scotus sayth it is Asinina quaestio a question méete for an Asse But of the water he sayth it is cold running cleare necessarie and common cold to represse concupiscence running to turne the course of our disobedience cleare to lighten our fayth necessarye to bring vs into the way of health common to all men And in commendation of this iudgement it is written in the margine doctrina singularissima a most singular doctrine fit lattin for suche a purpose to attribute such vertue to the water But M. Harding will say these vertues are in the water as Scotus speaketh in ipso fieri but euen while the childe is a baptising And of that opinion Thomas Aquinas séemeth to be wher he saith such prayers as are sayde ouer the water are not necessarye but onely for the solemnitie But here we may ill beleue eyther Thomas or Scotus for Pope Celestine saith otherwise Siue paruuli siue iuuenes whether they be Infants or whether they be yong men let them not come to the sacrament of regeneration which is the wel of life before the vncleane spirite be driuen away exorcismis exsufflationibus Clericorum wyth the cuniurings and the blowings of the Priests And of this opinion is the Maister of the Sentences Whereby it appeareth howe little Maister Hardinges Doctours are manye tymes beholding to hym that will so flatlye denye their opinions For if these thinges be necessary before the christeninge then hath the water vertue in it selfe at other times then the very tyme of christening But thus muche he said rather against his Doctours then against him self for his wordes seme in this place to confesse a truth There is no manner vertue in the water but onely in the vse of it But where he saith it is not so in the sacrament of the aultare but that there is vertue in it though it be not receiued that offendeth the godly and varieth quite from the worde of God and robbeth vs of our great comfort that we haue in Gods mysteries For S. Paul saith Panis quem frangimus the bread which we breake is it not the communion of Christes body For we being many are one bread and one body bicause we be pertakers of one bread By this opiniō we might be thus perswaded if vertue be in the sacramēt when it is not receiued then we may be incorporate into Christes body though we receiue it not contrary to S. Paules doctrine that saith to be of this vnity we must be pertakers of one bread And here I woulde faine aske Maister Hardyng this question if by these wordes hoc est corpus meum the breade is become no breade and a newe grace is put into it whether it be receiued or no I demaunde what if the bread be kept till it be consumed concerning the flesh He aunswereth the Lorde departeth againe when he is prophaned or when he is denyed What then is done with the grace Doth it likewise returne How is it then true that the prophet wryteth verbum meum non reuertetur ad me vacuum my word shal not return vnto me in vaine But how doth it not return in vain when being imploied vpō a dead creature It returneth vnto him again w tout farther quickning his liuely image which is mā or hardening the hart y t is already obdurate to Gods further glory Againe be it thus that a lofe once consecrated be set before a stranger who feedeth on it as vpon common breade if ther be vertue in it he discerneth not the Lords body so shoulde he receiue his own damnation How could it be then true that our sauiour saith that which goeth into the mouth defileth not the man or that which S. Paule saith al things are cleane to them that are clean nothing is to be refused that is receiued with thanks giuing And in an
The number of Communicantes is no parte of the Communion which is bothe a very childishe and grosse absurditie For how is there a Communion where is no Communicantes Thus thou séest good Reader this argument is not yet good But the better to consider of it bicause maister Harding will néedes haue it considered let vs take the view of it once againe This is the argument What so euer is beside Oblation Consecration and Participation is no parte of Christes institution But the number of Communicantes in one place is beside these thrée Ergo the number is not of Christes instition What may be said of this whole argument I haue already forewarned thée Now let vs hear what M. Harding saith to it him selfe There is nothing héere saith he to be denyed but the Minor what if it were so What is now the Minor Read the Reioinder thus he saith It is denyed in the Minor that the number of Communicantes together in one place is of Christes institution Why how now M. Harding is this the best argument you can make Marke good Reader this must be the Minor The number of Communicants together is no parte of Christes institution Lay now the Maior to it and the argument ariseth thus What so euer is beside Consecration Oblation and Participation is no part of Christes Institution The number of Communicants is no part of Christes institution The Conclusion is as before Ergo the number of Cōmunicants is no part of Christes institution Did euer M. Iewel father vpon M. Harding suche a mis-shapen argument This is his owne or else he belieth him selfe when he saith that this is his Minor But suche sleights he can vse to vnwinde him selfe out of danger A pretie conueyaunce of a litle forgerie among the ignorant might haue escaped blame But I wil not iudge M. Harding God knoweth whether he did it of purpose or no. This in déede should haue ben his Minor But the Communion of many togither is beside these thrée so the Communion might haue bene without Communicants which is a great absurditie and so consequently M. Hardings argument very euil As touching further triall of this vntruth his wrangling is not worth the consideration Only as he hath set forthe his argument to proue a number of Communicants no part of Christes institution so he shall giue me leaue to propone likewise some arguments for proofe that the Lordes supper may not be celebrate by one alone First thus we argue Christ said take ye eate ye drink ye all do ye this But this is spoken to many Ergo there must be a number To this argument M. Harding maketh this answer You must get you better proofe or else admit the Conclusion of my argument A man would thinke he were a craking souldier that is thus well pleased with his owne doing but if with this craking custome he haue not gotten the craking qualities he shall heare other argumentes though there can be none better It was not among the Iewes lawfull to eate the Pascall Lambe without a sufficient number Ergo the flesh of our sauiour Christ who is our Passeouer must not be eaten by the Priest alone Likewise it may be said of the gathering of Manna in the morning and of the drinking of the rocke I doubt not but here M. Harding can make a spedy answer with many comparisons betwene the figure and the truthe but the good conscience may easily iudge Beside this S. Paule him selfe dothe giue vs in this case a very good argumēt he saith My brethrē When you come togither to eate tary one for another Ergo we must not receiue alone The bread which we breake is the Communion of the body of Christ. Ergo there must be a number at the breaking of it And for a full proofe of this matter Christ sayth I haue earnestly desired to eate this Passeouer with you before I suffer Ergo the Priest must not eate it alone Thus we sée what we are taught by the scriptures cōcerning the number of Communicants and of what value M. Hardings argument is which he himself hath made after his owne fashion Whereby thou maist the better iudge what is to be thought of all those other which M. Iewel ascribeth vnto him The B. of Saris. There is not one peece hereof that either is true in it selfe or agreeth with other Harding The .71 vntruth Some part of it is proued to be true Dering The argument which M. Iuel saithe hath no piece either true or hanging of an other Is thus before alleaged The Sacrament must be receiued after Consecration Ergo a number is not necessary Héere saith M. Harding This is true y ◠the sacrament must be receiued after Consecration But how doeth he proue it Sure with no reason but a great deale of railing saying that M. Iuel is led with the sprite of malice that he will reuoke this when he is in his right minde Or if he will not let him take manducate bibite eate ye drink ye out of the gospel As touching M. Hardings railing bicause his mouth is no slāder I wil let it passe His reasō is this if cōsecration must not be before y e Communion then let manducate bibite be takē out of the gospel One that had so long disputed of good arguments should now haue taken héede how he had made one so ill This will in no wise holde except you turne him contrary and so ouerturne M. Hardings cause with his owne proofe For before y e Euangelists speake the words of Consecration this is my body they say all take and eate so that this foloweth very well if Consecration must be before receiuing then take manducate and bibite out of the Gospel For in the Gospell they are placed before How M. Hardings argument hangeth if Consecration be not before the Communion then take manducate bibite out of the Gospell neither M. Harding him self nor all his Doctors are able to tell vs. And this did Gabriel Biel sée well inoughe who considering this place of the Euangelists that they were bid take and eate before the woords of Consecration pronounced he doeth not as M. Harding doeth speake neither rime nor reason only to mocke the people But he saith plainly that the common opinion is Christ spake not as the Euangelists report take eat this is my body but quite contrary this is my body take eate thus hath Biel found a figure 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to set the cart before the horse and so maketh his religion to agrée with the gospell Now as touching this vntruthe where M. Harding saith so boldly that the bread must haue these wordes this is my body pronounced ouer it before it be receiued first he hath Mathew Marke Luke and Paule against him who all bid first eate and then pronounce these wordes Againe it is confessed by Gabriel Biel that we must thinke Christe spake
go I think to no mortall man to be more strengthned The B. of Saris. It pleaseth M. Hard. to alledge the one end and conceale the other Harding The .76 vntruthe The .10 diuis I conceale not the other Dering If M. Harding doe alleage bothe these ends of the Sacraments that is To ioyne vs vnto God to ioyne vs one with an other then let this be vntrue if he do not then for my pore skil me thinketh he concealeth it The B. of Saris. M. Harding saith the Communion signifieth not the Communicating of many together Harding The .77 vntruthe I say not so Dering Héere M. Harding and M. Stapleton do agrée so iumpe in one vntruthe that it appeareth euidently their religion is either very vniforme or at least they haue bene both instructed in one schole Thus saith M. Harding The Cōmunion is not so called bicause many or as M. Iuel teacheth the whole congregatiō receiued together in one place These words M. Iuel reporteth thus He saith the Cōmunion is not so called of the Communicating of many together This is vntrue saith M. Har. I say not so this is vntruth saith M. Sta. he saith not so I require héere of thée good Christian Reader to viewe the woords well and finde out any fault if thou canst Surely I thinke thou canst finde none like as sure it is M. Iuel did thinke of none But these two pair of Egles eyes what haue they espied Forsothe wher M. Harding saith it is not called the Communion of Communicating togither in one place M. Iuel thus reporteth it it is not called the Communion of Communicating togither and leaueth quite out in one place which maketh all the matter this distinction of Communicating together and Communicating together in one place bicause it is somewhat straunge these men should haue done well to haue proued it by some Doctor Sure M. Harding if he may goe for a Doctor he teacheth vs plainely in an other place that to Communicate together is to Communicate in one place For thus he writeth but that they should Communicate together that is to say in one place that we deny By this Doctor it appeareth that together and in one place is all one and then this can be no vntruth The B. of Saris. How be it in plaine speche it is not the receiuing of the Sacrament that worketh our ioyning with God Harding The .78 vntruthe The worthy receiuing worketh this effect Dering Doth it so Are we not ioyned to God before we eate the Sacrament S. Paule saith Elegit nos in ipso He hath chosen vs in Christ before the foundations of the worlde were laid muche more are we his before we receiue the sacrament Concerning sacraments the same Apostle sayth of Abraham Signum accepit circumcisionis c. After he receiued the signe of Circumcision as the seale of the righteousnesse of y e faith which he had when he was vncircumcised And shall we be taught now that they be no more seales and witnesses but causes of our iustification God kéepe vs from suche spiders that gather poison of so swéete floures And that thou maist take the more héede of this mannes doctrine I must first tell thee that for proofe of it he bringeth not one worde of Scripture but pretendeth the aucthority of Chrysostome and Cyril I would answere the aucthoritie for suche Doctors saue that the labor were long and not necessary For I will declare out of the Scripture that the doctrine is hereticall and thereby thou shalt be satisfied and maist further imagine that these holy Fathers names are too muche abused In this vntruthe of M. Hardings he teacheth two points of Doctrine the one that by and thorow the worthy receiuing of the Sacrament we be ioyned vnto God the other that the Sacraments are not only seales and pledges but also they containe grace Now let vs sée how these two Articles agrée with the worde of God And first whither the receiuing of the Sacrament do ioyne vs vnto God and as M Harding saith putteth also into vs life immortall Our Sauior Christ in the Gospell after S. Iohn doth often tel his Disciples how they are made one with God yet in that holy Gospel as in all other scriptures there is not one worde that telleth vs we be made one with him by receiuing the Sacrament But contrarily by plaine words we be taught what vertue this Sacrament hath that it is onely a signe of that grace which we haue receiued as shall appeare héereafter In the sixthe chapter of Iohn where Christ reproueth the fleshly hearers of his worde and calleth them to a true beliefe in him the Iewes make this answere What signe shewest thou then that we may sée it Our Fathers did eat Manna c. Héere is first shewed what the Iewes thought of Manna not that by it they were ioyned to God or receiued grace but that it was a signe a token and a pledge of their frée election how they were a peculiar people vnto God This Manna being a figure of this Sacrament of the body and bloud of Christ now lest vnto the Churche Christ maketh this aunswere I am the bread of life he that commeth to me shall not hunger and he that beleueth in me shall not thirst for euer By this we learne that to beleue in Christ is to haue euerlasting life and as Manna was a signe to the Israelites so the Communion of the body and blood of Christ is a signe to vs that this promisse shall be made sure It is written in the Prophet and all thy children shall be taught of the Lord of this saying our sauior Christ teacheth vs how we be ioyned vnto him and sayth No man can come to me except the father which sent me draw him And to this ende it is written by the Prophet Ieremie After those dayes sayeth the Lord I will put my law in their inward parts and write it in their hearts and I will be their God and they shalbe my people Of this we learne that if we come vnto Christ the Father must draw vs if we be his people he must be our inward teacher if we be vnited vnto him he must first come and dwell in our hearts whereby it is plaine that we must be first engrafted in Christ before we can worthely receiue his holy Sacramentes Furthermore it foloweth in S. Iohn he that eateth my fleshe and drinketh my bloud dwelleth in me and I in him Therefore we must dwell in him and he in vs or we can not eate his body and drink his bloud And the wicked which dwel not in him can not receiue him Again where our Sauior Christ doeth teache very largely how we be ioyned vnto him and become one with him euen as his Father and he is one he sheweth that this societie doeth come vpon vs of his Fathers frée mercy apprehended by Faithe of his woorde And for
their hearts and giue them vnderstanding that they may once know and confesse that his Religion may not thus be framed to mannes fansie so in the latter day when they shall be accomptable for their doings they may be vnblameable in the sight of the highest The B. of Saris. He saith Communion is so called of that we Communicate togither Harding The .79 vntruthe He saith not together Dering It is a very strange propertie not to be ashamed to speake manifestly against the knowne signification of any worde it is muche more straunge to speake against it placed in suche a sentence where of force the signification must be graunted but it is moste straunge of all and in manner a singulare impudencie to note it for any vntruthe in one that will not so shamelesly speake without reason as an other dothe Such an vntruthe as this is it which now we haue in hand 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is well knowne to signifie to Communicate together in the same time and place And in this sentence 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Héere to say it can signifie any other thing it is very ignorant boldenesse But to note it for an vntruthe as maister Harding dothe it is bothe to be past shame and past grace The worde is well knowne that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 do signifie a cōmunitie of any thing together and therefore they be called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which may haue felowship with the Congregation and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be in felowship with any man And bicause that Mercurie is sayd to be the messenger of the Pagane goddes to tell their errandes from them to any man therefore he is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hauing a proper name of his proper office in that by him the Ethnikes did thinke they were made partakers of their gods counsell by which the propertie of this worde appeareth And consider good Reader what manner of Communion it is that M. Harding would make when the Priest saith Masse in the Church and calleth no body vnto him yet he sayth that al the Priestes in the world which say Masse at the same time doe Communicate with him and be made one body of Christe togither Héere I aske of M. Harding how he agréeth with S. Paule y t saith we are one bread one body bicause we all are partakers of one bread Marke reader because we eate of one bread we become one body saith S. Paule Bicause we say Masse at one time we become one body saith M. Harding though we eate not at all of the same breade Sure these two Doctoures doe not agrée S. Paule saith moreouer the bread which we break is it not the Cōmunion of the body of Christ M. Harding saith though we breake not the same bread but be eche one of vs by our selues at our altares yet it is the Communion of the body of Christ. Thus we sée S. Paule and M. Harding teache not bothe one Doctrine But it is no meruaile they are not guided bothe with one spirit S. Paule speaketh truthe and M. Harding falshead S. Paule the worde of God and master Harding his owne fansies as for this Communion of M. Hardings it was neuer knowne in the Church of God I remember there is a great bragger in Martial maketh euen suche an other he had euer in his mouth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 All things are common among frendes but saying thus so often when he would neuer bestow any thing among his neighbors the Poet saith this is a very straunge Communion Das nihil dicis Candide 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 So it goeth with M. Harding he euer saith of his Masse it is common it is common but he saith it only he calleth no man vnto him Sure say what he will this is but craking Candidus his Communion God be praised that we are deliuered from it And thus it appeareth it is no vntruthe to say 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is to Communicate together ▪ as well bicause the worde it selfe is plaine as for that the scripture teacheth that the Communion must be so administred The B. of Saris. Basil reporteth an Ecclesiasticall Decree or Canon that at the receiuing of the holy Communion which he called mysticum Pascha there ought to be .xij. persones at the least and neuer vnder Harding The .80 vntruthe It is no Ecclesiasticall decree Dering M. Harding in this place is farre gone He is wont to controll very curiously false quotation in this place onlesse my boke deceiue me he is much ouerséene For I think it is in asceticis sermone primo Whether it bewell quoted or no it is truely reported S. Basils words are these Quemadmodum spiritualis lex non vult eos esse infra numerum duodenarium qui mysticum pascha edere debeant c. Euen as the spirituall or Ecclesiasticall decrée will not haue vnder twelue that shuld eate the mysticall passeouer c. Loe. S. Basil sayth it is an Ecclesiasticall Decrée Yet M. Harding saith it is no Decrée Beleue him not henceforth before thou trie him And the Doctors words wer as sone changed as he is redy to deny or affirme at aduentures thou couldest be sure of nothing but it is well the truthe doth not hang vpon his report Let him say while he will it is no decrée S. Basils wordes are plaine it is spiritualis lex If M. Harding had not made wrangling his hope in these vntruthes this had not bene numbred He may as well blame the Euangelistes for alleaging the Prophets And no doubt if M. Iuell should follow the faithfull sense as the Euangelists doe and let passe words Maister Harding would finde fiue lies in one line Such truthe he vseth in these vntruthes The B. of Saris◠It appeareth by S. Augustine and certaine olde Canons that in the Primatiue church the Priest and people sometime did Communicate after supper Harding The .81 vntruthe The .11 diuision It appeareth not Dering This vntruthe is sone answered For M. Harding graunteth that it appeareth by s. Augustine some receiued on Maūdie thursday after supper but saith he that is not sometime For saith he he that saith somtime meaneth oftner than once a yeare Now if it were possible that once a yeare might be sometime then were it necessary that M. Harding did wrangle But bicause once a yeare is no time let vs sée if it may be proued that it was done oftner First whether it be or no S. Augustine is at a point and saith faciat quisque quod in ea Ecclesia in quam venerit inuenit Let euery one doe after the custome of that Church in which he cōmeth it appertaineth neither vnto faith nor vnto good maners therefore whether a man receiue the Cōmunion fasting or no so he receiue in the Lord it skilleth not muche Now what they haue done in the primatiue Church let vs as I haue said enquire It appereth in
in the congregation receiueth alone Theophylacte a later wryter vpon the same place saith Why should we pray our selues Quia haudquaquam meritò id mysterium sumunt multi bicause many do receiue that mysterie nothing worthely By all these Doctors this place is ment of the Communion S. Ambrose saith It any man be impacient domi terreno pane pascatur Let him eate earthly bread at home And againe we come to gether vt multorum oblatio simul celebretur that the Oblation of many might be made together But S. Ambrose calleth not prophane meats suche as their common feasts were either heauenly bread or our oblation S. Chrysostome saith qui hoc non faciunt indigne communicant they that tary not one for an other doe communicate vnworthily And héere againe we sée this Doctors minde of priuate Masse or as M. Harding wil haue it of the priestes sole receiuing Beda saith likewise alleaging S. Augustine Ad Ianuar. Epist. 1. that this which the Apostle writeth in this place is ment of the Communion S. Ierome also dothe so enterprete it Read all these vpon the xj chapter of the first Epistle to the Corinthians Of the same minde are also Augustine Basil Gregorius Romanus And if thou rest vpon the aucthoritie of men examine all the olde Doctors that haue written vpon the same place not them only but suche as are of yonger age as Thomas Scotus Lyra Hugo gloss ordinaria and suche other They all agrée this saying of S. Paule tary one for an other is ment of the Communion Dionysius Carthusianus on the same place speaketh very plaine when ye come together to eate saith S. Paule Panem coelestem saith Dionysius the heaueÌ„ly bread videlicet corpus Domini that is to say the body of the Lord. And Nicholas of Gorram vpon these woordes tary one for an other wryteth thus Docet modum in hora communionis ordinate accedendo he teacheth howe to come orderly in the time of Communion What plainer aucthoritie can there be than these Who séeth not that all antiquitie haue vnderstande S. Paules words of the Communion If thou search them thine eyes shall be thy witnesse Yet saithe maister Harding as he were priuiledged without blame or discredite to speake what he would that Martyr Caluine Cranmer and suche other haue deceiued maister Iuel but it is wonderfull to sée howe he speaketh against the truthe the Lord knoweth whether against his owne conscience Read the Replie Fol. 94. thou shalt further sée â–ª how in the Communion the people came togither But as touching this place bicause the spirite of God is not tied to any man or age we will leaue our witnesses and examine the place First S. Paule blameth them bicause they come togither not with profite but with hurt And then teaching how they ought to come togither and in what sorte to haue their méetings he teacheth them by the example of our sauior Christ and his doctrine saying â–ª that which I haue receiued of the Lord that I haue deliuered vnto you that Iesus Christ in y e same night y t he was betrayed tooke bread c. making a full description of the Lords supper whereunto be adioyneth for this cause many of you are weak c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 For this cause which is the vnorderly receiuing the communion Yet saith M. Harding it is ment of their feastes After this it dothe folow in Paule Wherfore my brethren when you come togither to eate tary one for an other Now if this be not yet plaine inough that he meaneth of the Sacrament then looke what foloweth an vndoubted proofe of the whole matter Least saith S. Paule you come togither to your condemnation Is this at any time pronounced of any manner eating but of the vnworthy eating of that blessed sacrament Yet for the priuate Masse sake this plaine scripture must be denyed and impudently wrested into a straunge sense And marke héere how maister Harding would haue S. Paule reason the woordes before are plaine of the Lordes supper Of those words S. Paule concludeth wherefore my brethren c. Then by maister Hardings meaning S. Paule should reason thus A man must prepare him selfe to receiue the Communion Ergo they must tary one for an other at their common feastes such lose arguments the spirite of truth doth not vtter But suche is M. Hardings fashion he dothe not consider how he wresteth Gods scripture while he thus defendeth his vngodly Masse The B. of Saris. The like decrees are found vnder the names of Calixtus Anacletus Martinus Hyllarius and others by which it is certain that the whole church then receiued togither Harding The .221 vntruthe It is not certaine by those decrees Dering Sée the .151 vntruthe It is the same in effecte that this is But let vs sée héere also how truely M. Harding speaketh It doeth not appeare by these decrées saith he that all receiued togither this shall be best tried by the words of the Decrées Calixtus saith thus When consecration is done let all communicate which will not be excluded out of the Churche Anacletus hath the very selfe same woords but how it cometh to passe let the Decretal epistles sée that haue this agréement very often and yet it is very straunge that diuers menne should speake the same woordes Hylarius saythe if thy sinnes be not so great that thou must be excommunicate thou must not seperate thy selfe from the body and bloude of the Lorde Martinus sayth If any man heare the scriptures readen and of a superstitious minde doe thinke he should not Communicate sette him be excommunicate now iudge whether these decrées teach that the whole church should receiue together M. Harding can answere nothing but bringeth two distinctions one olde one which we had before in the .151 vntruthe an other he maketh more to answere Pope Hilarie and that is this where Hilarie saith If he be not excommunicate let him not abstaine from the sacrament We may abstaine saith M. Harding sacramentally though not spiritually If these distinctions may be alowed ther is no aucthoritie so good but let M. Harding slip and he wil answer it But S. Paule saith take héede y t no man spoile you through Philosophy and vaine deceit The B. of Sarisb Chrysostome saith we are all of one worthinesse to receiue the mysteries Harding The .222 vntruthe He saith not so Dering These are Chrysostomes words Est autem vbi nihil differt sacerdos a subdito vt quaÌ„do fruendum est horrendis mysterijs Similiter enim omnes vt illa percipiamê° digni habemur there is a time saith he when the priest dothe differ nothing from the lay man as when they must enioy the dreadful mysteries For we are al accompted of like worthinesse to receiue them And that we should not doubt of his meaning he maketh afterward along discourse to proue this same Yet saith master Harding it is false it is vntrue Chrysostome saith
other place whatsoeuer is set before you eate it and aske no question for conscience sake These sayings cannot stande with Maister Hardings religion about such questions how the word of God might agrée with it selfe Those busye heades might haue ben better occupied then in mouing such doubtes as a Christian heart adhorreth to remember But if they had ben so occupyed in Gods most holy euangelies as they were in Peter Lumberdes fancies they woulde soone haue turned ouer these winde shaken opinions Now while Maister Hardings friendes shal muse how these sayinges may agrée I will shewe thée godly reader how the Eucharist hath no vse except it be receiued Consecrate while they will crosse round about the bread breath ouer it at their pleasure looke demurely as they can intend what they list except the breade be receiued no maner conueyaunce can bring Christes presence Somewhat for proufe of this maye appeare by the vsage of the pascall Lambe and of Manna Of the lambe nothing might be reserued til the morning what did remaine should be burnt with fire Therfore we may coniecture it should not be lawfull to reserue the sacrament So likewise of Manna nothing might be reserued till morning if ought were had it was turned into wormes and stanke These being both figures of our sacrament the coniecture is not euill to thinke lykewise the Eucharist might not be reserued then the case were plaine it had no vertue but being receiued Howe be it I wyll not force any suche comparisons God doth lighten whom it pleaseth him The scriptures doe other where testifie plentifullye this that we teache First the Eucharist is to vs as the peace offerings among the Iewes which was a sacrifice or thanks giuing offered for peace or prosperitie and as they that made any such offering must doe it before the doore of the Tabernacle of the congregation c so Aarons sonnes sprinckled the bloude about the aultar otherwise it had bene no peace offering So we in the Eucharist must come to the Congregation gyue thankes and prayses vnto God preache out the death of hys sonne Christ and eate and drink of that heauenly mysteries or els it is not the Eucharist And the church naming this sacrament Eucharistia hath well declared that without open thankes-geuing there is no suche sacrament But who can doubt any whyt of thys matter that readeth the woordes of our sauiour Christ reported by S. Iohn or the other Euangelists and S. Paule Labour for the meate sayth Christ that the sonne of man shall giue vnto you He sayth not for the meate which is hanged vp in the Pixe And the people make their aunswere Lord giue vs euermore of this bread Againe Christ sayth The breade which I will giue is my flesh which I will giue for the life of the world Ther is then no benefite where this bread is not giuen and in this chapter it is often repeated that we must eate this flesh or els we haue no lyfe in vs. Yet in all this place nor in any place of scripture any one word is found y â— commendeth either mencioneth this sacrameÌ„t without the vse of it So if we wil apply this .6 chap. of Iohn to the sacrament as M. Harding in anye wyse will doe we sée how there is no grace no vertue in it if it be not vsed Concerning the woordes of this sacrament reported by the other Euangelistes and by saint Paule they are very plain Take and eate thys is my bodye saye they and of the Cup Drinke ye all of this thys is my bloude c. But by M. Hardings doctrine the holye ghost might haue spoken in this sorte Looke all vpon this and worship it this is my body And of the cup Drinke none of you of this yet it is my bloud Such is the sacriledge of that wicked masse in doing to vndoe that our Sauiour hath saide But here I cannot a little wonder at them In their owne inuentions they haue placed in their Masse these words accipite manducate and some thinke they are very requisite to transsubstanciation yet when they vtter them they meane nothing lesse than that any other but them selues should take part They prepare but a litle cake and a draught of wyne to make sporte with They intende not to communicate with other yet they saye alway take and eate A lye is very euill in any maner doing but in the seruice of God it is very detestable God when he will turne their hartes Here we se concerning this sacrament Christ commaunded nothing but that we shoulde in a holy company eate and drinke in remembrauncâ— of his death and passion But how turneth the Pope our sauiours commaundement He careth neither for eating nor drinking but when he goeth forth he setteth vp his sacrament vpon a white horse backe and men of eche syde with tapers and litle belles and so teacheth the horse that he will go to the aultare and there knéele vpon his knées till his Maisters god be taken downe Thus will the Pope teach horses to worship God euen as somtyme the Leuites woulde cary the Arke in a newe carte when they brought it out of the house of Aminadab For neyther haue we any one word to cary about the sacrament neyther had they of the carte And this is a greate misery that hauing no warrant for our Marchandise our candels our sensors our vestiments our oyle boxes our corporasse our porâ—uisse and sixe hundred thousandes suche other yet we make no account of them as though they pleased God If any thing séeme somewhat doubtfull then we turne vs to Doctors to councels to decrees to scholemen and to the holy closet of the Popes owne brest as thoughe Gods worde were not our wisedome and our vnderstanding in the sight of all people But God be thanked for his owne ordinaunces and lawes that are so righteous Now to the next marke that Maister Harding coulde neuer shoote at and this marke hath a great many péeces and such as is not easly discerned which is the greatest so I knowe not certainelye wher at to measure The first péece is this there is no difference betwixt the Priest and the people in the mystery of the sacrifice But what meaneth Maister Harding to finde the marke him selfe and then refuse to shoote at it Would he haue vs thinke this were Maister Iuels marke He saith no such thing Sure M. Harding hath verye straunge artillery His bow is made of slaunders and it will shoote nothing else but lies He can get nothing with cunning therfore he would saue him selfe by facing This stode them in good stede in the disputations at Oxford wher their friends wer moderators but in a booke that is written to all men this shift is shameles Let vs sée what saith M. Iuell of this marke Not one word Why doth Maister Harding reporte it He is disposed to lye But whervpon doth he gather it Forsoth out of Bernard
them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a kingly priesthoode And 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a holy priesthoode And it is sayde in the Apocal. Christ hath made vs 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 kings and priests vnto God euen vnto his father As for Hippolytus worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 let not maister Harding thinke that Maister Iuell taketh Saint Peter to attribute that name vnto the lay people Let the word go vnto Hippolytus from whom it came it is neyther in Saint Peter nor in the whole Testament It is attributed neyther to the priestes nor to the Bishops This is maister Iuels saying The priest and the lay man concerning the name priest are one and no difference of name giuen to eyther 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in their proper significations that is priestes I gladly leaue to maister Harding and his felowes It is giuen to no mortall men in the newe testament But to Iupiters priest Acto 14. Onely our Sauiour Christ is our high priest and that for euer after the order of Melchisedech and without blasphemie against him the name can bée no more giuen vnto man for as much as euery priest is appointed to offer sacrifice But he alone hath made that one sacrifice whereby we are clensed for euer And this Paule gathered well of the offering that Abraham made vnto Melchisedech writing that in Abraham Leui himselfe was giuen vp for tythe being then in his fathers loynes when that offering was made So that in the appointed time when Christ should be reueled an euerlasting priest after the order of Melchisedech the Leuiticall priesthoode shoulde be then ended and no perticular men should be seperated any more to serue in our tabernacle that is to be the preachers of Christes gospell and dispensers of his misteries but euery one is like accepted before God all spirituall priestes before him And as the publike minister shall aunswere for the sinnes of the people if he do not tell them Gods threatnings against all iniquitie so the father shall answere for the sonne the maister for the man the husbande for the wyfe and one christian man for another if we beare not the name of our father written in our forehead and openly in all places reforme one anothers offences and suche as are vnder our rule if wée doe not bring them vp in the feare of the Lorde God for his mercie sake giue vs hys grace that we may consider our calling which no doubt wée would doe if we were well instructed and deliuered from M. Hardings filthie priesthood which beareth vs in hand y t with Pardons and Indulgences and Massing abhominations they could doe away our sinnes And further who knoweth not that the oblations ceremonies sacrifices feastes priesthoode and all other rites and customes of the olde law were figures and are verefied in Christ. So Paule calleth Christ our Passeouer newnesse and sinceritie of life our vnleauened bread our bodies our temple our wickednesse our leauen the fruite of our lips our offering our selues our sacrifice So Saint Peter calleth Christ our corner stone his children the liuing stones their profession the holy temple and their obedience a kingly priesthoode The B. of Saris. Some of them haue saide the people are doggs and swine Harding The .53 vntruth I say not so Dering Maister Harding calleth them swine in plaine wordes he sayth further they are vnreuerent of an impure life Againe he sayth they are curious rashe vnreuerent contemptuous in all holy things Now to ioyne all these that the people are vnreuerent impure curious rashe contemptuous swine it is as much I thinke as if he called them doggs and swine How be it whether tearmes soeuer he vsed they are vnreuerent impure rashe contemptuous and swinish sayings and if he had bene ashamed of them he would not for so slender an vntruth haue called those wordes againe to memorie But the common saying is past shame and past grace The B. of Saris. The .7 deuis Yet now must their negligence be the rule of Christs religion Harding The .54 vntruth I say not so Dering Looke well on maister Iuels wordes thou shalt sée maister Harding is not named Againe consider this maner of speaking thou shalt sée this vntruth hath no grouÌ„d but ignorance Maister Harding doth confesse that his priuate Masse were not good in case the people were more diligent to receyue but considering their vndeuocion it is not méete that the dayly sacrifice should cease This maister Iuell reporteth as a thing very absurd that the negligence of the people shoulde be the rule of Christes religion And what is here vntrue who is so ignorant that knoweth not to make any such vain saying by repetition the more contemtuous that it is vsuall to chaunge the wordes Well knew M. Harding that the learned here would soone espie his doing but he accounteth it a small matter to deceiue those whom he taketh as vnreuerent swine c. The B. of Saris. But now the priest may say two three or mo Masses in a day yea although he haue none to receyue with him Harding The .55 vntruth Priestes say not many Masses in one day Dering Surely good reader lies are good cheape soone made where this is one The Decretals were wont to be a sufficient warrant for the vsage in the Popes ministerie Wil now maister Harding be so sawcy to controll the Pope Doth he not know that this saith Pope Gregorie excepto die natiuitatis causa necessitatis sufficit sacerdoti semel in die celebrare except on Christmasse day and the cause of necessitie it is sufficient to say one Masse a day Here we sée some dayes mo Masses than one were occupied and sure though one Masse be one to many Yet considering that thrée do signifie the thrée tymes before the lawe vnder the lawe and the tyme of grace where Masses go for good me thinketh thrée euery day would do wel And again bicause the Pope saith y t if néede be we may say mo Masses in one day and the glâ—se doth enterpret néede to be eyther for honestie sake or for profit sure such Masses as be eyther honest or profitable should euer for charitie sake be thrise iterate Yet I confesse that Pope Alexander and this gloser do not well agrée in profite For he sayth qui vero pro pecunia presumunt vno die facere plures Missas non estimo euadere damnationem but he that for mony shall presume in one day to make many Masses I thinke he can not escape damnation And yet notwithstanding this Popes censure the gloser will not relent but without addicion of necessitie he sayth flatly They may say one Masse for the dead an other for the day Mary for cause of controuersie in this matter Pope Gregorie makeâ— this prouiso So he poure no wine on his fingars after he hath receyued at the first Masse least in licking
them againe some drop should go downe his throte and so he should breake his fast But I will let passe these high points disputed in their Canon law and greatest doctors and of this that is sayd I desire the christian reader to iudge whether these wordes are vntrue that a priest may saye two or thrée Masses in one day The. B. of Saris. Concerning consecration he doth great wrong to charge vs with the breach of it before hee him selfe and other of his side are better resolued wherein consecration standeth For Scotus and Innocentius the .3 say that this word benedixit worketh consecration Harding The .56 vntruth VVe are resolued herein The .57 vntruth Scotus and Innocentius say it not Dering Maister Harding to make his vntruthes very common vseth such Logick as is very rare Where the antecedent argument do hang togither he maketh them both vntrue Wel may this doing haue credite among the simple but when the learned doe sée it they do easily say that these vntruthes haue more consideration of number than regarde of good matter and substance But let vs take them as they be the folly of the vntruthmaker shall the more appeare We are sayth maister Harding fully resolued herein that is wherein consecration standeth It is pitie that his worde hath not the Popes priuiledge that it might not erre He neuer wanteth audacitie to denie at aduentures whatsoeuer mislyketh him He sayth in consecration we are all agréed but Marcilius one of his owne doctors saith it is not so Whether of these say true it shal appeare hereafter We agrée sayth maister Harding that consecration of the bread and wine is wrought by these wordes hoc est corpus meuÌ„ this is my body and hic est sanguis meus this is my bloud And of this iudgement is their Pope holye patriarche Saint Peter Lumbarde yet the whole counsell of of Florence say consecration is wrought with all the wordes togither as they lye The chapter of Coleine say these words are not sufficient without the Canon of the Masse Saint Augustine sayth it is wrought with the word of fayth which we preach Saint Ambrose saith these wordes accipite comedite take and eate are part of consecration So haue these men the councell of Florence the chapter of Coleine Saint Augustine and Saint Ambrose against them Now let vs sée how they agrée among themselues Scotus sayth in finall resolution Dico breuiter ê™ non est nobis traditum certitudinaliter an ad formam coÌ„secraâ—ionis sanguinis partineant aliqua verba post illud sanguis meus vel an aliquot illoruÌ„ sequentiuÌ„ vlque illuc hoc facite â–ª c. Ideo periculosum est hoc asserere de quo sufficiens authoritas non habetur I say briefly that we haue no assurance at all whether any other wordes appertaine vnto consecration of the bloud after this is once said this is the cup of my bodie or whether the residue wordes following be part of consecration or no vntill it is sayd take and drinke c. Therefore it is daungerous 〈◊〉 affirme anye thing where you haue no sufficient authoritie And it followeth in Scotus and by this it is manifest they speake vndoscretly which say it is necessary to know in euery sacrament what are the precise and very words of consecration He saith further Let no man say I will vse these precise wordes simplicitie is much surer And vpon this he remoueth a doubt that if the priest should say this is my body and say nothing of that which gooth before we ought not to worship it but on this condicion if it be consecrate And these are Scotus verye wordes iudge now whether he agrée with Peter Lumbarde or whether he be resolued what to say or whether Maister Harding be not past shame that so boldely writeth of all the men that euer wrote maister Iuel might worst haue alleaged Scotus And that all Catholike be fully resolued in this For a larger proufe let vs yet examine it a little further Gabriel Biel expounding the Canon of the Masse ouer these wordes benedixit fregit he writeth ouer benedixit consecrando ouer fregit non panem sed panis speciem so by Biels opinion Christ did consecrate with benedixit he blessed Ludulp de Saxonia and Ihnocentius 3. agréeth with Gabriel Biel. Thomas and Bonauentura say that Christ spake these words twise hoc est corpus meum and so consecrated by them when he pronounced them first secretly Then thus farre M. Hardings doctors doe not well agrée Alexander de ales knoweth not well what to say he sayth in one place Christus dixit bis Christ spake the wordes of consecration twise Afterward he sayth consecrauit nos quo modo nescimus he did consecrate we know not howe Lastly he sayth virtus erat in manibus there was a secrete power in his handes This Doctor is much like Scotus he knoweth not what to say Marciliê° saith how Christ did coÌ„secrate doctores diuersimode dicunt doctors are of diuers minds Some sayd he consecrated without pronouncing any wordes Thus euery man speaking his fansie not guided by the worde of God they walke in darknesse and can not tell whither they go But Maister Harding will say though they can not agrée how Christ did consecrate yet they are fully agréed how themselues doe consecrate This as is before aleaged out of Scotus is not true But before I shew their diners opinions I would demaund of some of maister Hardings friendes howe a good conscience may be satisfied concerning this matter How Christ did consecrate as appeareth they do not agrée and so much maister Harding graunteth and vpon this Scotus sayth Intendebant narrare rem gestam non tradere formam consecrationis The Euangelists intended to set forth the storie not to leaue vnto vs any forme of consecration And Marcilius sayth nullus Euangelistarum nèc etià m Apostolus videtur hanc formam vidisse None of the Euangelists neyther yet the Apostles séeme to haue gyuen our forme of consecration Here I make this reason The Scriptures beare witnesse of Christ and how his body was made but the scriptures beare no witnesse of consecration therefore by their consecration his body is not made Againe consecration being of such force that they themselues confesse their host should no time be worshipped but with condicion if it be wel consecrate and yet this consecration is not taught vs by the scriptures howe is the saying of our sauiour Christ true that the holy ghost should teach vs all truth or how hath Saint Luke fulfilled his promise that sayd he would write of all things euen from poynt to poynt Againe where maister Harding sayth and commonly his other doctors holde that Christ did consecrate by these wordes this is my body if they wil stand to that for ought y t I sée they ouerthrow their owne Masse Christ did breake y e breade
before he spake those words as appeareth by all the Euangelists and by Saint Paule but they holde it vp whole and bid vs worship and after at more leysure they breake it in péeces But to what purpose should I examine their doings God deliuer vs from that crooked and froward generation Now for tryall of maister Harding his vaunts I will alleage some of his doctors that thou mayst know whether they are agréed about their own consecration The common opinion is consecration is wrought by these wordes this is my body But Mercillius sayth that enim is part of consecration and that the Church was so taught by Saint Peter Gabriel Biel and his companions say that enim is not necessarye for the consecration but for him that doth consecrate and he that leaueth it out should sinne deadly and yet Mathew Marke Luke and Paule all foure did leaue it out I trow without deadly sinne The Decretals teach vs that all which is in the canon of the Masse though it be not in the scripture yet we must take it as receyued from the Apostles And so the matter shall be fully discussed That is of consecration which the Canon appointeth Gracian alleaging S. Ambros maketh the priest to say in the person of Christ all these wordes accipite comedite c. so alleaging that for the consecration he maketh these sixe wordes of consecration take eate this is my body He sayth likewise alleaging Eusebius Nowe for the consecration of the cup M. Harding sayth these are the wordes this is my bloud Nay sayth Gabr. Biel forma indubitata the vndoubtfull forme is this this is the cup of my bloud and sayth boldly sufficienter plene significant conuersionem fully and sufficienly they work consecration Yet vpon better aduice writing vpon the maister of the sentences he sayth forma consecrationis specierum vini necessaria precisa ex scriptura canonica non est sufficienter determinata The forme of consecration of the wine what is precise and necessarie the canonicall scriptures haue not sufficiently determined it By this it is plaine that M. Hardings doctors will not all agrée except you take them in their good moode Biel sometime will not sticke in it you shall haue consecration wherein you will another tyme he is flatly resolued and sayth out of doubt thus it is And least maister Harding should wrangle with his wordes himselfe maketh full resolution of his meaning and sayth further dubium est an aliqua verba preter illa hic est calix sanguinis mei sint de necessitate consecrationis there is a doubt whether any wordes beside these this is the cup of my bloud be of necessitie of consecration And being not able to determin such a learned question he sayth this is certaine say all the words in the Canon of the Masse and consecration is among them Here thou séest good reader this man that is one place maketh no bones at it but sayth out of question it is thus in another place he cryeth peccaui and for his lyfe dareth not affirme one word and yet did Gabriel knowe as much of consecration as M. Harding doth But let vs heare other Scotê° as is already said knoweth not what is the exact forme and saith that the Grekes vse an other forme than we do And here by the way note that M. Harding findeth great fault with Maister Iuel for alleaging the Gréeke Church and sayth they were but certaine Scismatikes yet Scotus alleageth the same and accounteth them as Catholikes but so is maister Harding prepared in a burning desire to gainsay M. Iuell that he often falleth out with his owne friend But let this passe Thus Scotus concludeth that if the priest entend to doe as the Church doth and reade all the wordes distinctly he doth consecrate though he know not how Frauncis de Mairon an other of maister Hardings doctors sayth that these fiue wordes hic est calix sanguinis mei this is the cup of my bloud work consecration yet again in the same article mouing a doubt of the same matter he answereth thus some say it is so but Scotus sayth nay Marcilius sayth it is probable these are the wordes of consecration Hic est calix sanguinis mei But I will determine nothing in so high a matter And after for a ful declaratioÌ„ that they can not agrée among themselues he sayth Hoc noÌ„ est expressum per canoneÌ„ aut sedem Apostolicam it is not determined neither by the Canon nor by the Apostolicall seate Thomas Aquinas sayth all these are the words of consecration Hic est calix sanguinis mei veteris noui testamenti misterium fidei qui pro vobis pro multis effundetur in remissionem peccatorum this is the cup of my bloud of the new and old testameÌ„t the misterie of fayth which shall be shed for you for many Bonauenture sayth these latter wordes are not of consecration but they doe expresse the qualitie of the thing turned Clingius a late wryter and a chiefe doctor of M. Hardings side sayth the wordes of consecration be these this is my bodye and hic est sanguis meus c. this is my bloud c. When he hath not what to say he turnes it ouer with c. After in the same title he sayth absolutely these are the wordes this is my body and bloud and in them is all the substance of the Masse But againe he sayth in an another place hic est sanguis meus noui testimenti c. this is my bloud of the new testament and so forth and there he sayth all that followeth is the chiefe substaunce of the Masse and that all those wordes are spoken in the person of Christ and so consequently be part of consecration He sayth further that the words of consecratioÌ„ being pronounced by any vnméete person do worke nothing and that it was neuer shewed by any signe or miracle that a lay man might consecrate Yet maister Harding sayth that God shewed a miracle vpon certaine shepheards which sang these wordes and knew not what they ment and they consecrated vnwares Thus maister Harding passeth not so hée may saye somewhat to be at some dissention euen with hys friendes and thus much of this Let the reader examine these places and he shall sée whether maister Hardings worde be a good warrant that in consecration they all be full agréed And sure this great disagréement is so much the more blameable for as much as if they woulde haue followed their supreme head the Pope there had bene no controuersie in this matter For by his censure the very words of the canon in the Masse are the wordes of consecration vsed both by Christ and hys Apostles although none of the Euangelists haue expressed them These are the popes wordes Credimus ergo quod formam verborum sicut in canone reperitur a
christo apostoli ab ipsis eorū acciperint successores We do surely beleue that that forme of wordes which are in our Canon the Apostles receyued of Christ and there successors of them If this sentence might preuaile then the case of consecration had ben cléere But it is well if the Popes friendes will not beleue him For my part I meane not to purchase him any credit Now resteth the .57 vntruth to examine whether Scotus and Innocentius doe say that benedixit he blessed worketh consecration Maister Harding standeth stiffely in it and doth aduenture his credite that they say it not and being to much inflamed against Maister Iuell he writeth with a good countenance that of al the men that euer wrote he had least cause to bring Scotus for his purpose and that he is very rashe in so doing And if thou wilt beleue him for a cleare iustifying of this vntruth he sayth that Scotus and Innocentius neuer said that benedixit worketh consecration Surely good Reader these desperate assertions might well make thée thinke that thy bishop had deceyued thée But be not yet to hastie of beliefe be simple as the done but be wise as the serpent yea euē as the Romish serpent that hath so well prouided for his yong ones His Prelates may not be accused without .72 witnesses Let not thou a good bishop be discredited with one slaūderous tongue His priestes may not be controlled of any lay man be he neuer so religious Let not thou Gods minister be blamed of an Apostata yea and as though they were not yet prouided for well ynough Pope Euaristus ordeyned that the people should not accuse them at all Yea and that whole Laterane councell vpon good warrant of that saying of S. Paule the seruant standeth or falleth vnto his lord by authoritie of that sacred assemblie they exempt them from such temporall iurisdiction Then let vs be somewhat ware in defence of a Godly Bishop that maister Hardings bolde reprehensions may not proue him faultie Scotus and Innocentius saith Maister Iuell doe say that benedixit worketh consecration That is a false lye sayth M. Harding Then vppon good tryall let the truth appeare and let vs here what the Authors themselues say Scotus in déede sayth thus verba consecrationis sunt quatuor hoc est corpus meum There are 4. wordes of consecration this is my bodye If Scotus had said no more then maister Harding had alleaged all But it followeth a little after sed haec verba hoc est corpus meum prolata sine praecedentibus non significant hoc absolute But these words pronounced without the other wordes going before do not absolutely signifie this that consecration is done Loe Scotus sayth not as maister Harding reporteth him that consecration is wrought by these foure but saith he there is no consecration if the wordes afore which are the blessing be left out And now to auoyde all vaine cauilling about these words G. Biel sayth speaking of the same matter Quid si verba praecedentia omitterentur Respōdetur licet hic Scotus sit alterius opinionis tamen hoc communiter tenent doctores quòd haec quatuor sola sufficiunt ad effectum cōsecrationis What if the words going afore be omitted it is aunswered though Scotus be here of an other opinion yet the common sentence of doctors is these foure are sufficient Here besides the manifest words of Scotus G. Biel is also a witnesse that as maister Iuell sayth this is the common opinion but Scotus thinketh that the wordes going before are necessarye If then Scotus owne wordes and G. Biel witnesse are better proufe of Scotus meaning than Maister Hardings imagination it is true that the consecration is wrought by the whole blessing And this other saying before alleaged by M. Harding must be thus qualified that in that place he saith those are the especiall words Thus is Scotus saying auouched by maister Harding disalowed by his owne plaine words and by the testimonie of Biel. Concerning Innocentius whether he thought consecration was wrought by benedixit he blessed if Maister Harding had regarded his owne credite he would not haue denied it The whole troupe of his doctours doe so alleage his opinion First Scotus saith Sacerdos profert illa verba quasi materialiter quia recitat ea sicut a Christo dicta vt patet per rationem praecedentē in Canone Christus autem quādo illa dixit non transubstantiauit panem in corpus quod probatur ex verbis illius Canonis quia ibi praemittitur benedixit Vnde dicetur quòd per illam benedictionem praecedentem consecrauit non per ista verba hoc est corpus meum Cui concordat Innocentius Concerning the thirde article it is saide that the priest speaketh those wordes as the matter of consecration bicause he recyteth them euen as they were spoken of Christ as it appeareth by that which goeth before in the Canon But Christ when he saide those wordes did not transubstantiate the breade into his body as lykewise is proued by the Canon For there it is sayde before he blessed whereof it is sayde that by that blessing he did consecrate not by those other words this is my body and of this opinion is Innocentius in his booke of the office of the Masse .3 part the .6 Chapt. and the .14 Here hast thou Innocentius auouched and his opinion confirmed by Scotus Now for the thirde point of this vntruth Where Maister Harding saith if Maister Iuell had any mo he would haue named them May it please him to reade Alexander de Ales Okam Gotfrey Albertus Biel Marcilius diuers other of his owne doctors Either he must accuse them all as lyers or there are other of this opinion Thus we sée these great exclamations whereto they fall that in one title he cannot iustifie one vntruth But whether maister Iuell had mo to alleage or no reade his defence of the Apologie thou shalt sée fo 208. The B. of Saris. Cardinall Bessarion Bishop of Tusculum writeth thus Harding The .58 vntruth He vvriteth not so Dering If shamelesse lying were punished in Loueine then no doubt maister Harding would be more ware what he wrote Now as may be thought impunity haue made him confident Let the booke be iudge of this vntruth The B. of Saris. How be it by what soeuer wordes consecration is made it standeth no◠in abolishing of natures as maister Harding teacheth Harding The .59 vntruth I teach not so Dering Certainly good reader this vntruth is very straunge M. Harding is a great mainteiner of transubstantiation in al his doing yet here to get one vntruth he is content to forsake it I doe not teach sayth he that consecration consisteth in the chaunging of natures If it be so then by consecration the nature of bread doth not chaunge into the nature of christs flesh to this I gladly yéelde Would God maister Iuell said here vntruely The
vntruthe Then thus hang these vntruthes If this last be true that the Gréeke Church dothe consecrate with prayers the thirde is true that it intendeth not Transubstantiation And the second is true that it hath no suche intent as the Church of Rome hath and the first is true that these churches are not resolued in this intent Now consider I beséeche thée good Reader what manner of vntruthes these are that notwithstanding their great number are yet so smal in value that if but one be proued true all .iiij. must be graūted Sure thou must néedes confesse that M. Harding who in his Epistle would so faine shoote at hobs and rouers yet at this marke he hath had so good deliuery that he hathe farre ouershot him selfe and his whole commendation is no more worthe than that praise in Horace of a babling Poete qui variare potest rem prodigialiter vnam which cā turne a true sentence into a great many lies For proofe of this last vntruthe on which the other hang we haue the plaine wordes of the Councel of Florence alleaged by M. Iuel where it is shewed that in the Gréekes mynisterie after the words of Christ pronounced this is my body they make this prayer fac panem hunc honorabile corpus Christi tui c. make this breade the honourable body of thy Christ. By this prayer it is manifest that these wordes this is my body being pronounced before did not worke Transubstantiation But bicause it hath pleased M. Harding in to great a zeale of his number to score vp vntruthes thus vnwisely least his friends should thinke the matter vnsufficiently answered we wil say somwhat of them in order euen as M. Harding noteth them and I doubt not but to the indifferent reader they shall one of them sufficiently confute an other First saith M. Harding the Church is resolued on the Priests entent But that is very false For the Gréeke Church and the Church of Rome haue not one intēt The Greke Church as is said doth consecrate with prayers The Church of Rome with hoc est enim corpus meum The Gréeke Church maketh more accompte of the worthy receiuing than of Consecration The Churche of Rome thinketh we ought to haue more regarde of Consecration than of the worthy receiuing I leaue out other differences which are almost infinite This is inough to proue our purpose Secondarily saithe M. Harding the Church of Rome entendeth not Transubstantiation What he entended in this vntruthe I know not For my parte wold God M. Iuel said héere vntrue and that that Romish Church would leaue of that presumptuous entent Thirdly saith M. Harding the Gréeke Church meaneth transubstantiation And this is very straunge for a learned man to speake suche repugnances First y t the church of Rome intendeth not transubstantiation Againe that the Gréeke Church doth intend transubstantiation And thirdly y t they two intende one thing when M. Harding with all his wrangling can make these vntruthes agrée sure we wil subscribe Now resteth a little to be considered of the Councel of Florence whether it may appeare by it that the Churche of the Grecians acknowledge no transubstantiation Thus it stoode When the Latines in that assembly required that they might entreate of transubstantiation The Grekes made answere sine totius orientalis ecclesiae authoritate quaestionem aliam tractare non possimus without the consent of all the East Church we can meddle with no other question c. Héere be the Reader neuer so simple he must thinke thus muche If this article of transubstantiation were so Catholike as they will make vs beleue how commeth it to be called so ofte in controuersie in generall Councell And againe if the Grecians did accompte it as Catholike and were resolued in it what meant they that they would not subscribe to so highe a point of Christian religion sure this was their meaning they knew this transubstantiation was but a Romish deuise and therefore they would ▪ not yelde vnto it And thus muche of these hasty vntruthes The B. of Saris. The .13 Diuision But if Cyril neuer spake word of the Masse how is he heere brought in to proue the Masse Harding The .101 vntruthe Cyril is not brought to proue the Masse Dering But he should proue priuate Masse or else what maketh he héere For of that the question is moued And this is a very hard case that M. Harding must lose his vntruthe or else confesse he speaketh not to the purpose The B. of Saris. Neither may we thinke that Christes body must grossely and bodily be receiued into our bodies Harding The .102 vntruthe We must beleue it Dering As maister Harding hath forsaken Gods Religion and is fallen againe to Poperie so it séemeth also he hath forsaken his learning and beginneth to make vntruthes with his follie This is one of the chiefest articles for which we haue forsaken their vnfaithfull Churche As ofte as we repeate this we conclude the thing which lieth in controuersie betwene vs. This is our professed opinion and vpon the trial of it by good and sufficient aucthoritie if it be proued against vs Maister Iuel is ready to subscribe Then what meaneth maister Harding Or what maner of vntruthe is this Or who can accompte it for true and plaine dealing when vpon good ground we shewe forthe our opinion and he scoreth vp the question for an vntruthe He shal doe well to reproue it before he make anymoe vntruthes of this Reade the .104 vntruthe The B. of Saris. S. Cyprian saith it is meate not for the belly but for the minde Harding The .103 vntruthe S. Cyprian saith not so Dering If M. Harding and his Popishe felowes had falsified the Doctors no otherwise than M. Iuel héere falsifieth S. Cyprian then in a little chaunge of words we should haue had their meaning faithfully deliuered vnto vs and bastard bokes such as they knew not had neuer bene ascribed vnto them But thanks be to God who hath now lightned vs least suche vngodly writings vnder godly names should deceiue vs as touching this vntruthe I graunt the words are not in that treatise entituled de coena domini But whether the author say the same thing in sense let him selfe witnesse M. Iuel alleaging no Latine words but folowing the sense saith thus it is meat not for the belly but for the minde The wordes in Cyprian are these Sicut panis communis quem quotidie edimus vita est corporis ita panis iste supersubstantialis vita est animae sanitas mentis As the common bread which we eate daily is the life of the body so this bread supersubstantiall is the life of the soule and the health of the minde and what is héere falsified by M. Iuel Or what is worthy blame in this allegation Yet M. Harding taketh this smal occasion to finde fault with his printed sermon with his replie and with them that as he saith
denieth that councell to be general bicause there was not gathered together I know not how many Bishops out of christendome But if M. Harding had marked it better he should haue knowne it well inough that general might be applied onely to those twelue which he saithe were there gathered together If they did all well agrée sure that councell was more generall than their Chapter of Trident. If he will force the worde Oecumenicall there is no Counsell that euer was so generall If he will any thing restraine it why may he not bring it downe yea euen to twelue This vntruthe is but a cauil and if it were graunted yet were M. Harding neuer the neare his priuate Masse But bicause he saith so constantly that that Counsell was but of .xij. Bishops in Spaine as Peter Crab also noteth out of Isidorus it is more I thinke than he is able to proue for it is knowne that the Churche of Caesar Augusta Asturica Augusta an other Citie in Spaine and Emerica Augusta a Citie in Portingall ioyned in al matters and were of one felowship so that counsaile of the other xij Bishops had more ouer the consent of their great Cities This Caesar Augusta it self otherwise called Numantia was so populous a Citie that it kept war .xiiij. yeare with the Empire of Rome It was a Citie of so muche worthinesse for religion that what so euer had bene determined there the consent might well haue bene called generall Prudentius dothe séeme to glory that it was his Countrey In the time of Dioclesian and Valerian a great many of Martyrs were there put to death This is a very pore wrangling when sundry forain Bishops met in suche a Citie to denie their Decrées to be agréed on in generall Counsell The B. of Saris. He saith the thing that we receiue is no bread but so Tertullian saith not His words be these thy husbande will thinke it only bread and not that bread that it is called Harding The .116 vntruthe I say it not loke better on my words The .117 vntruthe These are not Tertullians words Dering If looking better on M. Hardings words wil helpe the mater we will not let for that Marke good Reader and loke diligently these are his wordes The thing reuerently and deuoutly receiued before other meates is not bread as the infidels then and the Sacramentaries now beléeue Looke well good reader and for M. Hardings pleasure looke againe doeth he not say it is not bread How is this then vntrue Nowe must I desire thée againe to loke diligently and if thou mark well thou shalt now heare of suche a distinction as in all this booke of distinctions there is none suche I say saithe maister Harding it is not bread I say not it is no bread there is great difference betwéene not bread and no bread Sure if thou looke not maruellous narowly thou wilt neuer vnderstand this distinction For my parte I would surely haue said it that which was not bread had bene no bread and that which was no bread had sure bene not bread and if it were not bread it could not be any bread and if it wer some bread then were it not no bread But let not bread be some bread and no bread be not bread and nothing be not any thing and not any thing be some thing As touching maister Iuell that good simple Bishop I dare sweare for him he neuer knewe of this distinction and so he is wrongfully charged with this vntruthe Yet least maister Harding shoulde please him selfe too well I must forwarne him that I can not alow well of this distinction If he be well aduised this is a Logike rule Aientia negantia acerrime inter se pugnant No things are so contrary as the affirming and denyall of the same thing But panis non panis bread not bread are contradictorie not panis nullus panis bread no bread Therefore maister Hardings saying that no bread dothe signifie more than not bread may séeme to haue no Logike and to speake not very wisely And sure I muse how he could be ouerséene in this considering the substaunce of it is in supposition about which his friendes haue wasted many good houres If he haue forgotten their Doctrine let him remember the verse Particulare prius facit o generale secundum But it may be that maister Harding and his friendes as they haue straunge deuises so they goe about to make newe Logike no doubt they are at some conspiracie For maister Nicholas Saunders whome his friendes thinke some body maketh this very distinction in his fourth booke of the Sacrament and with this common conceite of not bread and no bread would faine haue an vntruthe against maister Iuell And is it possible that these men should agrée in so great a folye if they laid not their heades together Well God be thanked their generall councels conclude very vnwisely Now resteth this other vntruthe about Tertullians wordes which as maister Harding saith are falsified bicause breade is not in the latter ende of the sentence as master Iuell doeth alleage them Tertullians wordes are these Non sciet maritus quid secreto ante omnes cibum gustes si scierit panem non illum credet esse qui dicitur Héere saithe maister Harding illum must not be referred to panem and thereupon he quoteth his vntruthe Euen as he did before for want of Logike so it may be thought he doeth héere through want of Latine Illum saith he is not referred to panem and yet the Grammarian saith the adiectiue must be alway referred to a substantiue except it be put substantiuely in the Neutre gender Now if master Harding can not make illum the Neuter gender nor yet finde any other substantiue in the sentence than panem then his Grammer hath as euill hap as his Logike and this is no vntruthe The B. of Saris. The translating illum him meaneth that it was the very person of a man which the woman had in hir hand Harding The .118 vntruthe It was the person of Christ God and man Dering What meaneth M. Harding to wrangle When M. Iuel saithe he meaneth the persone of a man to be in the fourme of bread can M. Harding vnderstand it of a mortall man Or is the controuersie betwene vs whether in the sacrament be any earthly mannes body If M. Harding would haue let scape this vntruthe no man would haue gathered this absurd sense of M. Iuels saying And yet if we would examine it what manner of vntruth is this where it is said it is a mans body to note it as vntrue and say it is Christes body bothe God and man If it be so yet is it a mannes body vnlesse we deny our sauior Christ to be perfect man suche vntruthes are sone answered The B. of Saris. The story that S. Cyprian reporteth as it sheweth the maner of keping the Sacrament so it seemeth also to shew that
God was offended with the same Harding The .119 vntruthe God was not offended with keping the sacrament but with the presumption of the woman which opened the cheast with vnworthy handes Dering M. Iuel sheweth out of Nicephorus that by like examples it may appeare God was offended with that reseruing of the Sacrament M. Harding without reason without aucthoritie without example of Gods word dothe boldely pronounce vpon Gods meaning and saith the example was shewed bicause she opened hir cheast with vnworthy hands Suche pronouncing of Gods doing should be grounded in Gods scriptures or else suche noting of vntruthes are rash and wicked I graunt it is in S. Cyprian cum manibus indignis tentasset aperire when she assayed to open it with vnworthy handes But whether for hir vnworthinesse God sheweth y e miracle that M. Harding addeth of his owne But what if Cyprian had said this we must not therfore haue beleued it He was a good member of the Churche of God but yet he was a man sometime deceiued He taught that Christ made satisfaction for original sinne only yet we know that was a wicked opinion He wryteth that it was in his time .6000 yeares sith the Deuill did assault man which is a grose error And in some places he thought not reuerently of the Maiestie of the holy Ghost God forbid we should yelde to any thing what so euer a good man doeth write But it is well in this place Cyprian saith no suche thing as M. Harding wold haue him and therfore his rashe vntruthe is not yet proued But to proue the contrary and that M. Iuel saith true we haue the aucthoritie of many Our sauior Christ bad doe that which he did in his remembraunce But he said vnto his disciples take and eate he said not lay vp in your chests And so Cyprian him selfe if it be Cyprian saith likewise recipitur non includitur the Sacrament is receiued it is not shut vp So likewise sayth Origen panis quem dominus dedit discipulis suis iussit accipi manducari non differri aut seruari in crastinum The bread which the Lord God gaue to his Disciples he bad them take it and eate it He bad them not defer it and kepe it till to morow Thus we sée M. Iuels saying may be sufficiently proued and maister Hardings bolde vntruthe is without any reason The B. of Sarisb The thing which our bodily mouthe receiueth is very breade Both the scriptures and also the olde Catholike fathers put it out of doubt Harding The .120 vntruthe It is the very body of Christ. The .121 vntruthe The holy fathers say not that the substāce of bread remaineth Dering This first vntruthe is all one with the .74 the .102 the 104. But suche must be had or how shal vntruthes rise Yet reason wold as I haue said that he shold proue his transubstanciation before he quote so fast these vntruthes Concerning this other vntruthe though it be one with this former and is now .v. times repeated that no wise man would thinke well of maister Hardings doing yet bicause he is so well pleased with it through his importunitie I must néedes say somewhat bothe for trial of his truthe and satisfying the christian reader First our sauiour Christ after consecration calleth it the fruit of the vine and a testament S. Paule v. times breade and the table of the Lord S. Luke calleth the whole Communion the breaking of bread Theodoretus an auncient father saithe Qui se ipsum appellauit vitem illa Symbola signa quae videntur appellatione corporis sanguinis honorauit naturam non mutans sed naturae adijcit gratiam He that called himselfe a vine did vouchsafe to honor those tokens and signes which are séene with the name of his owne body not chaunging their natures but ioyning grace vnto it And againe he saythe signa mystica post sanctificationem non recedunt a natura sua sed manent in priori substātia The mysticall signes after sanctification doe not goe from their owne nature but kepe the same substance that they had before that denyeth transubstantiation Gelasius saithe non desinit esse substantia vel natura panis vini the substaunce or nature of bread and wine ceaseth not Vigilius saithe of Christes humanitie quando in terra fuit non erat vtique in caelo nunc quia in caelo est non est vtique in terra when he was on earthe he was not in heauen now he is in heauen he is not therefore in earthe and in his first boke against Eutiches he likewise saith abstulit de hoc mundo naturam quam susceperat a nobis he hath taken from the worlde that nature which he receiued of vs. Chrysostome saithe natura panis in sacramento remanet The nature of breade abideth in the Sacrament Augustine saythe quod videtis panis est that which you sée is breade Origen saith Non materia panis sed super illum dictus sermo est qui prodest Not the matter of bread but the worde which is spoken ouer it dothe helpe Cyril sayth Christus credentibus discipulis fragmenta panis dedit Christ gaue vnto his beleuing disciples the breakings of bread Irenaeus saith Eucharistia ex duabus naturis constat terrena caelesti the Eucharist consisteth of two natures the one earthly which is breade the other heauenly which is by faith the féeding of our soules with the body of Christ. Reade maister Iuels bookes thou shalt sée suche other aucthorities in great number Thus thou séest Christian reader that the Doctors beare witnesse there is the nature of bread in the sacrament when M. Harding is able to answer these or bring any for himself then let the vntruthe stand The B. of Saris. The .18 Diuision This sole receiuing was an abuse and therfore abolished Harding The .122 vntruthe Sole receiuing in the time of persecution was no abuse Dering Héere M. Harding doeth fréely graunt that sole receiuing is an abuse whē the people may freely resort vnto the church Where is then the priuate Masse of our time This vntruth though it be worthe no answere yet for want of better it was once noted afore The B. of Saris. In M. Hardings Masse the whole people eateth by the mouthe of the priest Harding The .123 vntruthe They eate not by the mouthe of the priest as M. Iuel meaneth Dering M. Harding is driuen to narowe straightes that maketh suche raw vntruths with so many vnripe distinctions In the former vntruthe he putteth in in the time of persecution In this vntruthe as M. Iuel meaneth His helping hande must come to or there is no vntruth to be found This is M. Hard. plaine doctrine the people doe receiue by the mouthe of the priest If he can make two senses of these words his doubtful speaking is full of deceitfull meaning But this is too shamelesse wrangling No man in the world
vnto vs. And he that knoweth God heareth vs and the worde whereby the righteousnesse of God is knowne is the word of faith which we preache And plainly S. Paule calleth it the word of reconciliation And the Gospell is the power of God vnto saluation to al them that beleue And Peter witnesseth that the Gospell is preached to the ende men might liue vnto God and Christ sanctified his Churche by the washing of water throughe the worde Not one place in the scripture that we be sanctified by priuate Masse or daily sacrifice But let vs let these sacrificers alone They be blinde leaders of the blinde Read more of this in the epistle and in the .75 vntruthe The B. of Saris. The .26 Diuision S. Augustine saith the people receiued euery day Harding The .133 vntruthe He saith not so Dering Note this is all one vntruthe with the .83 and .145 These are S. Augustines words the daily bread may be taken for the sacrifice of Christes body which we receiue euery day Maister Harding saith he ment this of himselfe only and of other priests and he saith it only and doeth not proue it and vpon credite of his owne words doth quote an vntruthe With like facilitie I could make answer it were not vntrue but words without reason I will leaue vnto maister Harding to proue that S. Augustine ment the daily vse of their open Churche and that some did euermore receiue it may appeare as we reade in the Acts that those which came vnto the Church of Christ continued daily in breaking of bread and prayers by breaking of bread meaning the Communion And in an other place when the Disciples came together they brake breade and Paule preached And we reade in the .1 to the Corinthians the .11 Chapter When they came together they did eate the Lords supper Héereby it appeareth that in the Apostles time this daily receiuing was in vse though of Massing for the quicke and deade of shutting the bread in a boxe of worshipping it of carying about there be not one worde immediatly after c. About .200 yeares after this Tertullian wryteth Eucharistia sacramētum c. iam antelucanis sumimus temporibus We receiue the Eucharist euer before day And in an other place thy husband shall not know what thou tastest secretely before other meates By this it appeareth the Christians did vsually receiue euery morning S. Cyprian about 50. yeares after wryteth How shall we make them méete for the cuppe of martyrdom if first we do not giue vnto them the cup of the Lords bloud noting that in that great persecution they receiued daily in the morning Againe he wryteth Grauior nūc ferocior pugna imminet ad quam fide incorrupta virtute robusta parare se debent milites Christi And it foloweth Considering therefore they daily receiue the cup of the bloud of Christ they also for Christ may shed their bloud He saith further we require that this bread may be giuen vs daily least we that are in Christ Eucharistiam quotidie ad cibum salutis accipimus and daily receiue the Eucharist which is the meate of our saluation should be by any great offence seperated from Christ. Thus it appeareth in plaine wordes that in Cyprians time they receiued daily The like appeareth by Eusebius lib. 1. de demonst Euangelica cap. 10. Diuers other places may be brought which all proue M. Hardings aunswer to be vaine and doe wel expound the meaning of S. Augustine Chrysostome saith semper communicabant they did alwayes Communicate And maister Harding doeth alleage bothe him and Augustine himselfe for proofe of the daily sacrifice Now wher they say that we offer daily and yet confute sufficiently this newe fansied transubstantiation it is plaine they ment of this daily Communion and of the often vse of it maister Hardings Ignatius in like manner wryteth when this is done continually the powers of Sathan are driuen away These and diuers suche proofes may be had out of Ierome Ambrose Iustine Irenaeus and other many for this daily receiuing and therfore these vntruthes must néedes be little worthe that are so plentifully challenged and may so easily be answeared But whose aucthoritie should I rather vse in this case than maister Hardings owne Doctors they wryte it often and teache very plainly that in the primatiue Church they receiued daily Thomas Aquinas writeth thus In the primatiue church when the people were very deuout in the Christian faith it was decréed vt fideles quotidie communicarent that the faithfull people should receiue daily Durandus saith in the primatiue Church omnes fideles quotidie communicabant all the faithfull receiued daily Loe héere are maister Hardings owne Doctors which doe sufficiently answere his vntruth Here by the way of this one thing I must moreouer warne the good Christian reader that M. Harding is not able to shewe any one sufficient proofe whereby it may appeare that the Churche in any place within CCC yeares after Christ did appoint any one day especially for that purpose as their confederacie at Trident haue of late straightly charged It appeareth by S. Luke they met daily and it appeareth by Paule to the Ephesians y t they had their méetings both day and night in this vse they cōfirmed their doctrine which Paule teacheth the Colossians Let no man condemne you in meat and drinke nor in respect of an holy day or of the newe Moone or of the Sabbothe dayes And no doubt to take away this popish superstitiō of dayes times it was gods good wil and pleasure then so to ordaine it And for a ful proofe that the Churches vsed some saturday some sunday it is well shewed by that hot contention that was raised by Victor Anicetus against y e gréeke church After y e Apostles time about the yeare of our Lord .115 vnder y e Emperor Traiane it appeareth that the Christians vsuall méeting was in the mornings as is shewed by Plinie in an epistle written to the Emperoure of the same matter After this .30 or .40 yeare Iustinus doeth recorde that in his time they vsed the sonday and any other day when there was baptizing of children After this it is declared by Origen that the Christians of his time did not méete only on sundayes and holidayes but on other dayes also And Sozomene séemeth to deny of the Romaine Church that they had any meetings on the Saboth day as all other Churches had Eusebius saith quotidie ferme ad percipiendam disciplinam christi constuunt almost euery day they came to hear the doctrine of Christ. Athanasius nameth expresly these dayes sabbatum diem dominicum secundum sabbati parasceuen quartum sabbati Now if it can not be proued that any one Church made a special obseruation of the sunday but that on other dayes also they vsed like seruice vnto god
it is plaine inough they shold be two of the clergie Now iudge whether maister Iuel may say thus the glose hath determined it As touching the allegation of these aucthorities out of maister Hardings Doctors séeing he dothe so vnwisely reprehend it bicause master Iuel alleageth their sayings yet aloweth not their religion May it please him to be answered as Tullie said to Antonie testimonium tuum quod in aliena re leue debet esse in tua tamen quia contra te est debet esse grauissimum this their witnesse which in an other matter were of no value yet in their owne bicause it is against thē selues it must néedes be very waightie This other vntruthe as touching Anacletus is like the residue vpon examination of the woords let the reader iudge Thus saith Anacletus Episcopus deo sacrificans testes secum habeat in solennioribus quippe diebus aut 7. aut 5. aut 3. diaconos c. By this it is shewed that at euery ministration he shold haue some of the clergie Now the glose of that other Decrée determining that those two should be of the clergie let the indifferent reader iudge whether it doeth agrée with this decrée of Anacletus and so he shall sée the better what maner of vntruthes these are The B. of Saris. M. Harding knoweth well that these decrees which are here rehersed could neuer be found written Harding The .154 vntruth I knovv it not Dering The councels are extant and the thing is plaine these decrées are not in them But saith Maister Harding peraduenture thrée hundred yeare a gone Gratian did sée them though they neuer came to our hands Now sure this is a straunge paraduenture Gratian liued 800. yeares after the councell was holden at Agatha and if those decrées had remained so long peraduenture they might haue bidden .300 yeares mo and so we should haue knowne of them But seing the matter is but at peraduenture at all aduentures let vs graunt it What troweth Maister Harding bicause that by gesse he proueth his priuate Masse therfore shall gesses be of value to make vntruthes He had néede shew better euidence that would take away Maister Iuels good name The B. of Saris. It is decreed that they which receiue not at Christmas Easter Whitsontide be accompted as no catholikes Then except a few massing priestes there is not one catholike in the church of Rome Harding The .155 vntruth This is a slaunderous lye Dering The councell holden at Agatha hath decréed thus the seculer men that receiue not the Communion at Christmasse Easter and Whitsuntide let them not be taken or reckned for catholike people Herevpon Maister Iuel saith if it be so in the holy church of Rome sauing a fewe Massing Priestes there is not one catholike The reason is For they receiue but euerie Easter and whether they haue vsed it or no let all the world witnesse I doe appeale herein to the conscience of the rankest papists whosoeuer they be let the vsage of that time be a triall whether they vsed then only to receiue or no. What holy fashions were then vsed aboue other times What shriuing What dispeling What curteine drawing What primerose gathering What cleckclacking What roode sweating What crossecreping What Iacke an apes walking from the altar to the idol house What wickednesse was there vsed againste that one time of their sinfull receiuing Who knoweth it not that this is true Yet saith Maister Harding it is a slanderous lye it is an impudent tale a false slaunder an impudent surmise a manifest vntruth such one as may be sene the nouice of him that is the father of lies If this may be beleued we sée how against all certain trueth he will spew out his venome But God haue the glory that hath giuen his children vertue against such poison For the vntruth I say as before let the world iudge The B. of Saris. I haue alreadie proued by Saint Augustine and Saint Ierome that Communion was ministred in Rome euerie day Harding The .155 vntruth This is proued by neither of them Dering Double on Maister Harding Your number shall grow the better This is now the fourth time that this vntruth is reconed that the thing is true I haue sufficiently declared before Now bicause the matter so falleth out that M. Iuel alleaging foure times these things of Augustine and Ierome M. Harding noteth them for foure vntruths I must craue of thée a litle to consider them Ieromes wordes are these I know this custome is at Rome that christian folke receiue the bodie of Christ dayly which I doe neither reproue nor alow These wordes it séemeth are méetely plaine Maister Harding aunswereth thus Héere mencion is made only of dayly receiuing but that they receiued together in one place that is not auouched If any man can sée any reason in this aūswere let the vntruth go Now as touching Augustine he sayth thus Christ by way of sacrament is offered euerie day vnto the people not at Easter only but euery day This authority bicause it is somewhat plaine Maister Harding skippeth it ouer and aunswereth not at all Augustine sayth againe the dayly bread may be takē pro sacramento corporis christi quod quotidie accipimus for the sacramēt of Christes bodie wich we receiue dayly To this authoritie Maister Harding doth aunswere thus Saint Augustine might meane that of him selfe and other Priestes or which is more likely he spake indefinitely of all beleuers Thus with might meane and more likely M. Harding would warrant this one vntruth to be .v. But he him selfe might meane more simply then it were more likely these vntruthes had ben fewer but let vs sée more S. Augustine saith againe many in the Easte doe not dayly cōmunicate Of this M. Iuel inferreth Therefore some in the Easte did cōmunicate dayly To this M. Harding aunswereth somewhat shamefully Of y e thing I contend not but yet M. Iuels argumēt is not good Marke good Reader M. Hard ▪ saith of y e thing he wil not cōtend yet he maketh v. vntruths of it But let this go S. Augustine saith againe the sacramēt of this thing is prepared or consecrate in the church Alicubi quotidie alicubi certis interuallis dierum somewhere euerie daye and somewhere but on certaine dayes To this Maister Harding aunswereth thus the sacrament in some places is prepared euerie daye by priestes and by the same priests is euery day receiued these are the proofes which Maister Iuel saith here that he hath brought Maister Harding noteth his vntruthe and sayth they proue it not whether they do or no. Now let the Reader iudge Except Maister Hardings aunsweres had ben better this vntruth needeth no longer iustifying The B. of Saris. Fabian saith we decree that euerie sondaie the oblation of the altar be made both of bread and wine as well by men as women Here besides that in these wordes
impudens est procax Whosoeuer is present and dothe not Communicate he is shamelesse and malapert And in diuers places he warneth them to cease their euil doing with oft repetition of the dreadfull mysteries And to what purpose were that if they receiued not commonly The aucthoritie that is alleaged out of Augustine is taken out of Ambrose and it may wel be answered with the aucthoritie againe of Augustine taken out of Cyprian Hunc panem dari nobis quotidie postulamus c. This bread saith he we desire that it may be daily giuen vnto vs. c. Least while we be denied that heauenly breade we be seperate from the bodye of Christ. Héereby it appeareth in their assemblies the most of them receiued and to this effecte maister Iuel dothe alleage Conc. Matisc. 2 cap. 40. Concil Antisiodor Can. 42. Car. mag lib. 6. cap. 162. Now how so euer it liketh maister Harding to accept it all this must néedes stande for sufficient proofe For this seconde vntruthe héere brought that the contrarye is shewed by sundry recordes of this that we haue said it appeareth that this shewe as it is againe shewed is nothing worth Therefore the vse of receiuing in those dayes was as it is recorded euery sunday at the least but the receiuing in the Popes dayes is euery Easter and so both these vntruths are become none The B. of Saris. It was decreed by a councell holden at Gerunda in Spaine that all litle Churches in the countrey shold confourme them selues vnto the great cathedrall churches that were in cities and townes as well for order of the Communion as also for singing and other ministration But by M. Hardings owne graunt there was no priuate Masse in the cathedrall Churches Harding The .165 vntruth That councell speaketh neuer a vvorde in that canon of the Communion The .166 vntruthe I neuer made any suche graunt Dering Beleue not this mannes saying gentle reader if thou loue thine owne soule Marke first the aucthorities ere thou credite his reporte The words of the councel are these vt institutio missarum sicut in Metropolitana ecclesia agitur ita in dei nomine in omni Terraconensi prouincia tam ipsius missae ordo quam psallendo vel ministrando consuetudo seruetur That the institution of Masses euen as it is done in the Metropolitane Churches so in the name of God we wil that in al the prouince of Terraconia the same custome be kept in order in singing and in mynistration This canon is reported by Gracian who in stead of Terraconia putteth in all prouinces least maister Harding should make exception of any one countrey But saith he this decrée speaketh neuer a worde of the Communion Yet this decrée hath these expresse woords The institution of the Masse the order the maner of singing and the mynistration And the title of this decrée in Gracian is this as in the cathedrall Churches sic vbique missarum solennia celebrentur so euery where let the solemnitie of the Masse be kept and the glose saith Ostendit quod missa non debet aliter celebrari quam in Metropolitana ecclesia he sheweth that the Masse must be celebrated no otherwise than in the cathedrall Churches If the Communion in the Masse be no part of the institution nor order nor ministration it is a strange Communion and it is a straunge Masse that may be instituted and ministred without it But be it that this were so is maister Harding so vncourteous to his close Communion that he wil haue it no part of the solemnitie of his Masse He doth thē deserue very ill of it For it hath more prety gestures than all the Masse beside But what if maister Harding will denye all this What if he care neither for councel nor yet for Gracian What if he say it is no part of the institution order ministration nor yet of the solemnitie yet he cannot auoid y e glose that speaketh expresly without naming any circumstaunce that the Masse must be celebrate no otherwise in small Churches than it is in the Metropolitane churche Now except M. Harding do meane to teache vs by these distinctions that the Communion is no parte of the Masse it must be ministred in all Churches alike This is a miserable cause that M. Harding hath that to defend it must either fall into this absurditie that the Communion is no part neither of the institution of the Masse nor of the manner of singing nor of the order nor of the ministration nor of the solemnity nor of the Masse it self or else he must confesse this is no vntruth Now where he saith further for this other vntruth that he made no suche graunt that in cathedrall Churches there was no priuate Masse if it be true what a vain argument made he when he gessed at priuate Masse in little villages by the vse of Cathedral churches Reasoning after this sort that séeing ther were so few Communicants in the great citie of Antioche what was to be thought of small parishes Héere may wel appeare a secrete graunt that priuate Masses must be had in small townes in the countrey or else no where The B. of Saris. It appeareth by most certaine and vndoubted proofes that the people did receiue then euery sunday Harding The .167 vnt It appeareth not by ought that here is brought Dering In the .157 vntruthe master Harding said this was a foule vntruthe Héere he saith it is vntrue for ought that héere is brought so he somwhat qualifieth his former saying But yet this doing is straunge bicause the thing is certaine to make exception against the proofe more modestie might well haue yelded vnto the truthe How be it considering it is M. Hardings doing it is y e more sufferable Poets and painters may not be limitted in their inuentiōs But least the christian reader should be deceiued and haue some confidence of this vntruthe bicause it is twise reckened let vs sée these proofes which maister Harding saith are so vnsufficient The one is Decernimus vt omnibus dominicis diebus c. We decrée that euery sunday the oblation of the aultar be made of euery mā and woman This aucthority séemeth very sufficient if y e time do preiudice it in that thi◠councell was holden more than C. yeares after the councell of Agatha maister Harding must vnderstand it is an argument Minorae They receiued euery sunday in the time of the councel holden at Matiscona Ergo muche rather when the councel was at Agatha And in déede from that time our sauior Christ ascēded vntill the Pope sate aloft in the Church of God euery age as it was nearer vnto Christes time so they had more commonly their Communions The second profe y t M. Iuel bringeth is this vnaquaeque mulier c. Euery womā when she doth communicate let hir haue hir Dominical If she haue it not let hir not Communicate vsque in alium diem