yet we counted it better to for beare than to be counted lyke to suche trouble some talkers At this alteration the Cardynall stepped in and as though this question had ben sufficiently debated made an end therof Or rather wheÌ„ he coulde no longer beare the proud insoleÌ„t talke of XaÌ„tus he brake of his talk Hereof neuerthelesse the Sorhonists as if the mater had ben coÌ„cluded or seÌ„tence geuen on theyr side w e vain arrogaÌ„ce peâ—…waded theÌ„selues that they had won the victorye Neither is it any marueyle for neither could we answer many of theyr reasoÌ„s which they spake all at once so that we could not vnderstand theÌ„ nether would we interrupt the Cardinal in his talke But he taking on him the part of a iudge dyd closelye conclude that whatsoeuer is written ought to be referred to the authoritie of the charch that her tradytions wer in all pointes to be obserued Afterwardes he turned his talke to the Lordes supper affirming protestyng that he woulde goe no farther tyll we agreed of that article For this sayd he is the controuersye that troubles most men And sayd further that we had necessarily coÌ„pelled him to talke therof For yâ— in our fyrst metyng we had plainlye fhewed our mynde therof which nowe filled al Fraunce with diuers daungerous rumour and farther was imprinted and sette abrode He obiected vnto vs the confession of Awgspurge asked whether we wold subscribe ther to We asked agayne whether they woulde bee contente to allowe it in all pointes then they beganne to trifle Furthermore they obiected other opinioÌ„s of certain ministers of the Germans which they said wer seÌ„t vnto theÌ„ neither wer they ashamed to desyre intreate vs to subscribe vnto theÌ„ But that was done for a pollicy to thintente that if we denied so to do he might set vs at strife with the Germans and make vs to be hated of them And if we did agre then they as conquerours shoulde tryumph ouer vs and make a commoÌ„ iest of vs as of light and vndiscrete persoÌ„s and so coÌ„demne our opinion To auoid this doubt we answered that we came thither to defende the confession of oure faith and had no other commauÌ„demeÌ„t or authoritie of our churches â–ª Therfore we required that we might folowe the order of our confession and that euerye article might be seuerally and distinctly weyed so that it mighte plainlye appeare wherein we agree and wherein we disagree For bothe the order of nature and also the waye to concorde requireth that those thinges whiche be playnest and easiest should first be haÌ„dled â–ª Furthermore forasmuch as the sacramentes depend vpon the doctrine It is most necessary first to reason of it With al this we nothing preuailed For the Cardinal continued in his purpose We saw also that he attempted this that we with inequall hande might departe the conferre that yesame might seeme to be broken of by our stubbornesse Which we thought good by al meanes to preueÌ„t Therfore we desired to haue their writing to the which they would haue vs subscribe that we might deliberate therof Ther with all they brought forth a copie of the article of the lordes supper takeÌ„ as they said out of the confession of Awgspurge But differing neuerthe lesse much therfrom as it may wel appeare by the reading thereof For this it was with a stedfast faith we coÌ„fesse that in the most reuerend sacrament of the Lordes body and bloud truly really and sacramentally the true bodye bloude of Christ is offred to the coÌ„municantes and receiued by them Herto they added the confession of certayne ministers of Wittenberge set forth 〈…〉 the yere of our of our lord god 1559. So we departed for that day and the matter was deferred till the morowe Wherfore when we perceiued that by this requeste they minded to driue vs to this inconuentence that eyther we should denie our own confession or els breake of the conference returnyng at the last and calling on the name of god we determined rather to take the most vnequall and bniust conditions that could be offred than to geue any occasyon wherby it might seme that we fled the conference Therfore the nexte day we prepared our selues to aunswere waytyng alwayes when we should be commaunded to come when it was sygnyfyed to vs from the Queene that thesame was deferred for twoo dayes In the meane tyme diuers tales were spred of vs as that we were ouercome and could not proue our ministery lawfully and our aduersaries reioyced as conquerors as though our hearts fainted to be short thei criuÌ„phed afore the victory But this theyr myrth coÌ„tinued not loÌ„g For ii daies after at oure returne we brought forth an aÌ„swer more at large more perfect to those things which afore wer ouer passed vsed such meanes as we could to auoid the pollicy of oure aduersaries It Beza rehersed in wrytig The effect of it was this That we greatly maruelled yâ— wheras of late we had so aboundantly shewed what is the church what be her marks how great her autority that any reasonable manne might be satisfied ther wt. Yet neuer the lesse nothing was saide against it but onely demaunded of vs by what power we do administer the worde of GOD sacrameÌ„ts And yet nothing ouerpassed yâ— might make our cause odious hateful For to what purpose it was spoken we could not as yet wel perceue bicause we came not thither to administer the word or sacraments But if an accompt shal be demauÌ„ded of vs of those thinges which her to fore we haue don thei must understaÌ„d the emoÌ„ges vs there are two sorts of ministers One of those that teach in foren couÌ„treys in the which theyr calling is allowed And of those it cannot iustly be demauÌ„ded here wherfore they be ministers Another sort is of theÌ„ whiche teach the gospel in this realm whom we thought not to be seÌ„t for hyther to geue an accompt of their callig but only to coÌ„fer dispute of doctrine Otherwise they might seme to bee sent for to plead their cause as for som crime Which we cannot think that the Queene or nobles in any wise minded And yf the same be required vnder the colour of coÌ„ference reasoning it is verye far froÌ„ the meanes of coÌ„cord reconcilement For we cannot enter into such questions demaundes with out the greate offence of the bishops other the Lords of spiritualtie But none of vs all at anye time minded it but purposed onelye to prosecute this holy purpose I pray you if two parties agree to conferre afterwardes the one demaunde of the other By what nower do you this must it not needes ensue that by suche questions they shal fall at bariance As for example setting a part the bishops and other the spiritualtie of this realm whoÌ„ we are lothe to offende let vs admytte that some straunge byshop enquireth of vs by what authoritye we minister the woorde and
L. Cardinal the rest of the lords reiect trāsubstātiatiō which now by y◠cōmon cōsent of al churches aswell in Germany as in other realmes is condemned If we be required to subscribe to any writing it is mete also that the Cardinal of Loraine in the name of al his should subscribe thesame also That the churches by whom we were sente may perceiue that we met not altogether vnprofitably about these matters If my Lord Cardinall wil constantlye perseuer in that mynde that he wil admit the whole confession of the Germaines we hope that we shall come nier and at the last to that point that we shal easely satisfy you And shewe a ready way to peace and concorde In the meane tyme we affirme that Christe is present in the vse of his Supper and there doth after geue and exhibite vnto vs his body and bloud by the power and operation of the holy ghost And if we do receiue eate drinke spiritually and by fayth the selfe same bodye that dyed for vs and the selfe same bloud y◠was shed for our saluation That we may be bones of his bones and flesh of his flesh And that we may be quickned thereby and receiue whatsoeuer is necessary to our saluation We desired also of the Queene if this satisfied her not bicause it is hard to entreate of so great a mystery with fewe words that we might speake therof in more large and ample sort And that we were ready to do it whensoeuer the Cardinall of Loraine would shew his authorities out of the olde doctours Moreouer we earnestly desired that there mighte bee some equall and tolerable order of conference or disputation taken suche as we desired euen from the beginning And we protest that therby it should appeare to all men that we came not thither to stirre contention but rather to finde meanes of concord in soūde doctriue For we desired nothing els but that those thinges restored to y◠Lordes Supper which were takē from it and taking away those thinges that were il added it might be restored to the olde perfection Which to compasse we decreed not to spare our liues but in so good a cause to yelde and render oure liues and heartes to God the king the nobles and the common quietnesse as well of this realme as of all Christendome With thys oration oure aduersaries were greatly amased but chiefly with the first parte thereof wherby they sawe the glory of their succession and callig stained For they could haue heard nothing more greuous or vnwelcome to them Therfore the Cardinall freatting much disquieted said we were now come to a good poynt y◠we were not content to inuade the dignine of Priestes But we muste also touche the kyngs maiestie For he priuyly wroughte to bring vs in hate as though we had accused the king for taking away the elections of Bishops Abbates as though the fault were in y◠kyng that none of them were chosen but as for themselues they sayd they were ordeined and instituted by the king to whom the people had geuen al their right and power therin Wherefore if we would disproue that we must speake to the kyng to whom it belonged to maintayne his lawes and ordinaunces And that we were ignoraunte how they were ordeined when all the people wer came together by the knolling of bells and therefore gessed of thinges that we knew not To conclude all hys talke was full of tauntes whereby he thought to kyndle the Queenes wrath towardes vs as though we accused the kyng of Tiranny But that slaunder was easely auoided For it was forthwith shewed that therby is the confusiō of the true ecclesiasticall order and state made muche more manifest For that kinges were fame to set to their handes to reforme that horrible disorder which ambition enuy contention and such like had lōgtyme bredde amonges the Canonicall Priestes Monkes and all the rest of y◠ecclesiasticall order And could by no other meanes remedy that sore than by taking from them the liberty of choyse which so long tyme they had shamefully and beastly abused And as to their common forme of ordaining Bishops and pastours it is right well knowen what a iest it is and therefore we wyll waste no time in speaking of it For we entred not into that matter to handle it at large but onely to shew that oure mynistery which in thys ruine and so great confusion of the church the Lord hath raysed is lawful and vnworthely mocked at You your selues began first to talke thereof quoth the Cardinall you first inuaded our flocke We came not into your garrisons but you into oures Neither would I wish you shuld thinke your selues as good as we nor talke as ye woulde to youre felowes Our estate is somewhat higher than yours Whē we saw him speake cruelly in this sort we thought good to prouoke him no longer least we mighte seme oure selues to haue hindered the disputation Then he began againe to be earnest on vs to know some reason why we would not subscribe to the cōfession of Augspurge We answered him againe y◠it was vnreasonable to require y◠of vs which do not allow it in al pointes But if they thēselues would first subscribe it would be the easier way to reconcile vs to thē And y◠we knowe not whether he of hys owne head or els by the cōsente of al the rest did put in that bill whiche he would haue subscribed I quoth the Cardinall am sworne to no man And therefore will I neither subscribe to the confession of Awgspurge neyther yet to you And yet I wil be ready to subscribe both to them and you if you thinke truely And y◠I offer nothing to you of mine own head these my brethrē that be present can witnesse Which when he sayd he turned his body towardes the reste of the Cardinals and Bishops Which neither graunted to his saying by word or gesture nor greatly withstode it Therfore for asmuche as they woulde not subscribe we sayd they coulde not require it of vs. This done and appeased the Cardinall entred into talke of the Lordes Supper and set his common doctors to vs. Master Spensa began to vrge the presence of the body of Christ in his Supper so that he enclosed the body within the bread And said it culd no otherwise be imagined but the body must nedes be ioyned with the bread and reproued vs as though we swarued from our master Caluine whose boke he had alleaged We sayd we differred frō hym in nothing and that we were ready to subscribe to all the contentes of that boke Then he vrged the name of substaunce whiche Caluine ◅seth We answered that we wont ◅o vse that terme least men should thinke that we fain either some new or ymaginary body or some phantastical receiuing therof but neuerthelesse that we are no otherwise made partakers of y◠body than by sayth and power of the holy ghost Hereto the right
reuerende master Peter Martiâ—… added many thinges and according to his singuler learning besides many other thinges which perteine to the order of the church he handled this question also shortlye plainly and eloquently He answered also diuers things which both the Cardinall and SpeÌ„sa had obiected in their orations in the first meting and chiefly those things which concerne the authoritie and amendmente of counsels Which so pricked the Cardinal that he would no more reply vnto hym And whyles he was handling and declaring diuers matters more playnly bicause he spake somewhat after yâ— ItaliaÌ„ maner the Cardinal rose and sayd in a great chafe that he would talke wyth hys own countrey meÌ„ And yet martiâ—… spake so plainly distinctly yâ— not only yâ— Cardinal being skilful in yâ— ItaliaÌ„ toÌ„g but also euery ignoraunt man myghte well perceiue him Spensa somewhat talked to him herefore coÌ„mending him aboue the rest that no man this day liued that had written more largely or copiously of this question than he Afore Spensa was answered a Spanyarde one of those that call themselues Ieswites desired that he might haue leaue to speake His talke was sharp bitter and nothing pleased the audience He assayed to turne al mennes myndes From hearing this cause as it whiche was already sufficiently knowen The suttelâ—…ies and craftes where with heretykes are wont to creepe into mennes heartes he applied to vs. Calling vs foxes and dogges And at the last concluded that we ought to be reiected and referred to the counsel of Trent which the Pope of Rome had proclaymed saying that we should haue free comming thither and the Popes safeconduyte that there the controuersies of fayth religion ought to be iudged of the which wemeÌ„ souldiors or other not exercised in diuine matters were not mete to be iudges Thus as it were perswading the Queene he willed her to send vs to Trent Hitherto his talke although it fauored bitter hate and malice yet to some semed graue and seuere But at yâ— laste he played the foole so kindly as if it had ben in a stage For when he entreated of the Lordes Supper promysed by a playne similitude to proue the presence therein he sayd it was euen lyke as if any Prince when he hath atchieued victory on his enemies to celebrate the remembraunce therof would institute yearly playes whereby bothe his warre and victory might be represented to al mennes eyes And if any man in those playes shoulde represente the person of the Prynce That would so much the more moue the mindes of yâ— beholders to remeÌ„ber it but if yâ— king himself would be preseÌ„t shew hymselfe there then thesame would be most noble and excellent Euen so sayd he that Christ himselfe when he instituted the remembraunce of his passion would also be present and in the same About the ende of hys oration he assaied to enflame the Queene agaynst vs and made many mournfull coÌ„plaintes faining himselfe to wepe after the maner of those iesters which ar commonly apte to counterfayte any gesture Hereto Beza aunswered that the Spaniard talked as though we were already conuict of heresy But for asmuchas no man hitherto hath shewed vs oure error he might haue done much better if he had reserued the scoffes which he bestowed on vs to hymselfe and his felowes Bicause we can not se how they touche vs. And as to his councel that that Queenes maiestie was not so bare of counsell that she neded it But that she and her councell sawe well inough what is best to be done and by what meanes they may prouide for common quietnesse But that which he sayd of the Lordes supper that he made nothing els of than a play of yâ— history of Christ bicause it was to blasphemous beastly beyng ouerpassed he turned toward master Spensa He vrged the playne wordes of the Lord. Thys is my body and the consent of the EuaÌ„gelistes whiche nothing differ therein We aunswered that thesame Euangelistes sayd thys is my bloud of the new testament And an other Thys cup is the new Testament in my bloud Whych without a figure can not be vnderstanded And hereby it appeareth that it is a Sacramental maner of speach Which Austine teacheth most plainly in his .xxiii. Epistle to Boniface If the Sacramentes quoth he had not a certayne lykenesse of those thynges wherof thei are Sacramentes they wer no Sacramentes at al. Of thys lykenesse moste coÌ„monly they take the names of those thyngs wherof they are SacrameÌ„ts Lyke as therfore after a certayne maner yâ— Sacrament of the body of Christ is the body of Christ and the SacrameÌ„te of the bloud of Christ is the bloud of christ so is also the Sacrament of fayth faith it selfe But Spensa sayde that yâ— letted not but that we ought simply without figure to credite the wordes of the Lord. We sayd that a Sacramentall maner of speache coulde not be withoute figure But if there be a figure in our Sacramentes quoth Spensa they shal not then muche differ from the Sacramentes of the old TestameÌ„t which are altogether figuratine And we say that they were a figure and shadowe of that truthe which was fulfilled to vs in Christ Otherwise we must nedes confesse that they were figures of a figure Which is most vnreasonable we denyed that consequence bicause yâ— figures appointed by God in the olde Testament are referred to the truth it selfe wherof the fathers wer partakers but a farre of before the commynge of Christ But we are nye at hande After he was offred for vs. Neither do we say that we are as yet vnder figures but yâ— we nede yet as long as we lyue in this body visible signes and Sacraments and in them we say ther are figuratiue or Sacramentall maners of speache which neuerthelesse proueth not but yâ— we haue the truthe notwithstandinge these signes To coÌ„clude we agree with Bernarde saying Bernard sermone .xxxiii. suê‘ â—antica The truth is set before me but in a SacrameÌ„t The Angel is fed with the meale of the corne or the perfect grayne But I must be conteÌ„t with the barke of the Sacramentes with the brauÌ„e of his flesh with the chaffe of the letter and the cloke of fayth But sure howsoeuer these be tempered and swetened with the aboundasice of spirit and fayth certainly the barke of the Sacrament and the fine boulted meale of the corne fayth and hope remembraunce and presence eternity present tyme the countenaunce the glasse the ymage of God and the forme of a seruaunt are not like pleasaunt in cast Wherby it is well proued that we truely are made partakers of yâ— truthe but do not yet fully enioy thesame bicause oure weakenesse requireth the Sacramente the barke and the cloke After thys communication with SpeÌ„sa was ended there stepte vp an other doctoure one of the Sorbonistes vrging agayne By a suttel and crafty meanes as he thought hymselfe the exposition of these the
Lordes wordes This is my body whē he asked what we thought was meant by thys pronoūe hoc we aunswered that bread was meant therby and that the body was speken therof so y◠therby we might wel perceine y◠the bread is a signe of the body They on the contrary syde Sayd y◠this pronoūe Hoc is of the neutre gender can not by the rules of Grammer be referred to the bread but was induuduum vagum And onely to note the body as if a man should saye This is oyle This is hony Thys is a building And suche lyke Therein imitating Durand Whom Gardyner also an open enemye of the Ghospell and alleaged by them dyd folowe We shewed that that repugned wyth the nature of a Sacramente forasmuche as if it lacke a signe if it be brought to nothynge or made as nothyng it ceasseth to bee a Sacrament And it is a great maruell that none of the olde fathers could see thys fiction of induuduum vagum But thys satisfied them not And therefore repeating thesame continually wyth great cryes they ceassed not after the maner of the Sorbonistes to babble til nyght Yea and one of them foolishlye impudently threatned Beza Saying Oh I would we had thee within oure colledge We in the meane tyme eyther helde our peace or modestly obiected certayne argumentes til the noise wer whusshed but bicause they wuld nedes eyther wynne or seeme to wynne with trifeling or loude crying we preuayled nothyng Wherefore to be shorte we sayd that all the auncient fathers made with vs and we woulde be iudged by them Neither did we depart tyll the Cardinal pronused vs to sende vnto vs the authoritie of Austene other auncient fathers whereby oure opinion is condemned But we could neuer haue them He meant hereafter to conferre by wrytyng bicause he saw that by our talke God opened the eares of many but chiefely of the nobles Afterwardes the order of our disputatiō was altered For there were fyue chosen to conferre with vs and those such as passed all the reste in learning witte and modestye Monluke the Byshop of Valētyne Calius Sigensis an other Bishop the Abbot of Saligne the Abbot of Botillery and doctor Spensa Agaynst those wer chosen on our part doctor Peter Martir Theodore Beza Augustine Harlorate Iohn Spina Nicholas Gallasius We agreed of the order place tyme and secretaryes whyche shoulde regyster the questions proposed and the reasons on eyther part And then the selfe same day which was the last of September we began to deliberate with what order we should begin the disputation We wished and desired that we might orderly prosecute euery article of our confession Whiche request to be reasonable they thēselues confessed saying that they coulde not allow that prosperous order that began at the last yet bicause we were alreadye entred into that article they thought it good to finish it afore we came to the rest Therfore the next daye at oure returne we entreated of the presence of the body of Christ in his Supper The Abbote of Saluine brought forth a place out of an auncient Greke copy of Cirilus a Bishop of Ierusalē wherof there was no long reasoning bicause it made much with vs. At the last after muche alteration we concluded thus That in that respect that fayth makes those thynges presente that are promysed that same fayth doth moste truely receiue the body and bloud of our Lorde Iesus christ by the vertue of the holy gost in that respecte we confesse the presēce of his body and bloude in his holy supper in the whiche he offereth giueth and exhibyteth trulye the Substauce of hys body and bloude by the operacion of hys holye Spirite And we doe receiue eate spyritually and by sayth that very body whiche dyed for vs y◠we may be bones of hys bones fleshe of his fleshe that therby we may be quickned receyue whatsoeuer is necessary to our saluatiō A copye of this conclusion those that cōserred with vs gaue to the rest of the byshops and doctours y◠were at Poyssye But they alowed it not wherefore the nexte daye another was proposed vs wherein there was somewhat chaunged For that whiche we attribute to fayth it attributed to the worde That when we perceiued was done of purpose y◠it beyng left doubtfull euery man might interprete the sense therof at his plesure least any mā should therby be deceiued we woulde by no meanes admitte for forasmuche as we came together there to prouide for the quietnes of our conscience we endeuoured as muche as laye in vs to withstand all error and doubte Neuertheles least we should seeme to stick vppon wordes we were contented that they shoulde chaunge the forme of the wryting so they altered nothing of the sense This forme therfore that folowes they thought better and promised to moue all the byshops to agre there to We doe confesse that Christe in hys holy supper doth truly offer gyue exhibite the substance of hys body and bloud by the operacion of the holy ghost and that we receyue and eate sacramentallye spirytually and by fayth hys bodye that died for vs that we may be bones of his bones and fleshe of his fleshe That there by we maye receyue lyfe and whatsoeuer pertayneth to our saluaciō But forasmuch as faith groūded vppon the worde of god doth make those thyngs presente whiche are promysed by thys fayth we acknowledge that we trulye and verelye receyue the true and naturall bodye of oure lorde Iesus Christe by the vertue of the holy ghost In this respect we cōfesse the presence of the bodye bloude of oure lorde sauioure Iesus Christ in his supper All thoughe thys forme litle differed from the other yet they hoped that it woulde be better alowed of the lordes And therfore they toke it with them to communicate vnto them We sayde that we woulde in lyke maner communicate it with oure brethren and reserue oure selues libertye either to adde or expoūd any thinge therin as we should thinke good When the Cardinalles had sene this forme some of thē allowēd it very well reioyced as though we were tourned to them And diuerse tales were therevppon sprede of vs. But when it was perused by the doctours as well Sorbonists as others they lightly chaūged their opinion They added therto therfore as we here say their opynion whereby they shewed what they thought wanted in it or wherefore they thought it was not to be allowed Also thei made almost a Tragedy betwixt the bishops and those which had conferred with vs and had put in y◠forme of this agremente of this article among thē ▪ as thoughe they did either agree with vs or mocke with them But bycause it is no part of my purpose to writ their cōtentions I will willingly leaue it And now I come to the declaration of oure opynion as concernynge the presence of the body of Christ in his supper which we reserued free to our selues least any doubtfulnes bycause of the shortnes of our fyrst writing myght breed any doubte or error We affirme that no distāce of place may let our coniunction with the body and bloude of Christ bycause the Lordes supper is a heauenly thinge And althought in the earthe we receiue with the mouthe of oure body the breade wyne the true Sacraments sygnes of the body and bloud of Christ yet by fayth the helpe of the holy ghost our mindes to whom this foode doth chiefly belonge caried vp to heauen feede on the present body bloude And in this respecte we saye also that the body is ioyned with the breade and the bloude with the wyne But no other wyse thā sacramentally that is to say not accordīg to place or situatiō but bycause they do effectuously signify y◠God giueth it to those that faythfullye communicate they trulye receiue it by faythe Hereby it appereth in what sorte we thinke of the presence of the bodye of Christ in the Vse and Ministration of his Supper For we admytte neither Transubstantiation nor Consubstantiation Yea we refuse all maner presence wherby Christes body is thought to be in the earth without quātity or is affirmed to be any otherwher than in heauen We vse the name of substaunce to signifye that we meante not our fayth of anye fayned bodye or phantasme neyther of the vertue only of Christs passion or his merites only which neuerthelesse we confesse to be the spirituall catyng of Christes fleshe but euen of the true and natural bodye of the sonne of God which he toke of that virgin Mary and afterwards was crucified and raised again for vs and now resteth in heauen till suche tyme as yt shal com to iudge the quick the dead And this was the ende of the Conference For they that conferred with vs beyng yll intreated of they re fellowes came not agayne Neyther were anye other chosen in theyr roomes Neyther since that tyme dyd the Bishoppes signefy any thing vnto vs but though we oftentimes desired that we myght goe forwardes handle the rest that wer yet vntouched we could vnderstād nothīg of their mindes therin but that they minded to depart wer desirous to referre all thinges to the councell of Trente Therefore ordre being taken for the leauiyng of a subsedy wherof perhaps they were more careful than of anye thing els deliuering vp to the King the articles whereof they had agreed among themselues not making anye accompte of vs but leauing vs in the court they al repaired to their homes Finis ¶ Imprinted at London in Paules Churchyarde by Luke Harryson
remedy foūde for so great cōtronersies as dayly ryse of benefyces Of the excommunicatyō censure of the Churche and such lyke With the which hard weighty questions the Bishops occupyed had so litle leasure the they could scarse findeany tyme to employ in the hearyng of vs. What meanes they sought in the meane time to preiudice our matter it is not to the purpose here to tel I wil shew onely this one Which some thought in maner the prologe or preamble of the conference that should ensue that hereby mē may know what credite they ought to geue to such rumors as our aduersariesfalsely spred vpon vs. For immediatly vpon the departure of Theodore Beza a rumoure ranne that he being conuycted by the Cardinall of Lorayne was turned to the Catholikes as they cal themselues and agreed with them as coucerning the Sacrament as they terme it of the aulter Of thys tale what was the couloure and occasion I wyll shortly shew Whē Beza the day after hys comyng came to the Queenes presence in the palayce of the kyng of Nauarre by whom he was sent for there beeyng presēt the Prince of Conde the Cardinal of Borbon diuers other the Cardinall of Lorayne emonges others being there began to entreate and exhort him to encline to peace and concorde saying that as being absēt he had troubled the kyngdom so now being presēt he might wel appease it Hereto Beza first shewing what good wil he had alwayes borne to the kyng and hys natiue countrey aunswered that he was not of power to trouble so great a kingdome but muche lesse of purpose to do it whiche mighte well appeare by hys wrytinges hopyng also that they should perceyue greater proofe therof in hys talke Then the Queene demaunded of hys wrytynges Wheruppon the Cardenall takynge occasyon sayd that he hadde a booke publyshed in the name of Beza in the which he red one horrible incōuensēce Namely that Christ is now so to be lought in his Supper as afore he tooke vpon hym our flesh and was borne of the virgin I haue heard also quoth he that you wrote in a certaine booke that Christ is in such sort in his Supper as he is in a dunghil With these sayings al those that were present were greatly offended But Beza sayd As for the bokes if they were present I myght more certainly aunswere whether they were myne or no. But as to the first sentence it may wel seeme vnreasonable as it is rehearsed of my Lorde Cardinal But well vnderstode and those thinges considered which go afore it and folowe it we shal fynde it most true But the last is not onely shamefull but wycked also and blasphemous And I am well assured can neyther be founde in my wrytings nor any others of our part Ouer passing therfore this last in the which whosoeuer was the author of it he vttered to playne and manifest a lie the Cardinall returned to the first It were very hard quod he that we should haue no more than those olde fathers Furthermore how could Christes fleshe be geuē afore it was Then Beza asked of the Cardinall whether from the beginning of the world there had ben any Church he graunted Also was not the same Churche a Church by him which is the Mediatour betwixt God and mā There to he agreed also Is not Christ the true God and mā thesame Mediatour He confessed that also Then quod Beza the communicating of the faythful with Christ is not to be limited to y◠tyme in the which in dede he ioined his diuinity to our nature For that which was not as yet by the course of nature was alwayes by power and effect present to the eyes of our fayth Is it not sayd that Abrahā saw the day of Christ and reioyced Also Paule sayeth that our fathers did eate the selfe same spiritual foode and dronke the selfe same spirituall drynke out of the spirituall rocke which folowed them which rocke was Christ Hereunto the Cardinall agreed also and adioyned here to that which is written in the Apocalips that the lamb was slayne from the beginning of the world Then Beza entreated somwhat of the difference of the olde and newe Testament From thys question as it haps many tymes they fel into the reasoning of the presence of the body of Christ in his supper We do not agree quoth the Cardinal in the exposition of these wordes of our Lord. This is my body I graunt quoth Beza and I am sory that we agree no better But I had rather plainly to graunt it than to dissemble it I quoth the Cardinall doe teache the children of my diocesse when they are asked what is the bread of the body of our Lord to answere that it is the body of Christ Do ye disalow that No quoth Beza For it is the sayinge of Christ But the question is after what sort the bread is called the body of Christ For of those thinges which are sayd to be all are not sayd to be after one selfe same sort And there with he touched somewhat of the Sacramental maners of speaking Wherin the Cardinal did not much repugne against the sayings of Beza onely against that place but the rocke is Christ whiche Beza cyted he set this The worde was made flesh But he was sone made to leaue that hold For y◠which is spokē of a natural and essential cōmunion far differeth from the Sacramental speach At the laste this questiō quoth Beza cōsisteth in foure pointes The first is of the signes The other of the thing signifyed The third of y◠cōioyning of the signes with the thing signified The fourth of the participation of the signes y◠thinges signified by thē As to the first quoth he we do not agree that in the lords Supper you do appoint onely accidentes in stede of the signes Wheras we continue there the nature of bread wine as both the nature of Sacraments requires also the holy Scripture teacheth Here the Cardinal interrupting hym Truly quoth he I thinke my selfe able enough to defende transubstantiation But I thynk the deuines might well inough haue left out y◠doctrine Neyther would I y◠vpō that poynt should rest any diursiō of our churches As to the second poynt quoth Beza we do not only say y◠the meryte of Christes death passion is signified vnto vs by the signes of bread and wyne But also the true body that was crucified for vs and the true bloud which was shed for vs and to be short that Christ himself true God and man is signified vnto vs by these visible signes that oure myndes and vnderstanding may by fayth spiritually beholde hym in heauen where he now ascēded resteth And so haue the fruition of all hys goods and giftes to lyfe euerlastyng And that assone and as surely as we see take eate drynke those corporall and visible signes The Cardinall agreed hereto signifying that he was glad to vnderstande it For that he had
heard afore that we taught other wyse As to the thirde quoth Beza we graunt that there is great difference betwixt common water it wherwith we are washed in Baptisme betwixt breade and wyne whyche we vse commonly and those which we receiue in the Lordes Supper For the water in Baptisme and bread and wyne in the Lordes Supper be Sacramentes that is to wyt visible signes and testimonies of the body and bloud of our Lord. But this chaūge we do not admit in the nature of the elementes But in thys that they are seuered to an other vse farre distant from it whereto naturally they be appoynted For whereas naturally they serue to the nourishment of the bodye when they become Sacramēts they represent that whiche spiritually fedeth and refresheth our soules Furthermore this sacramentall chaunge we attrybute neither to the Vertue of the worde whiche any mā pronounceth neither to his purpose intention as they terme it but to the power and vertue of god Whose wil ordināce is declared to vs by his worde In that respect therefore that the thinge signifyed is offered and geuen vnto vs of the lord and that as trulye as the signes therof are geuen vnto vs in that respect and no other we acknowledge the coniunction of the signes which y◠thinge signified And so also we saye that the body and bloud of Iesus Christ in that they are truly geuen vs and cōmunicated vnto vs to be trulye present also in the vse of his supper neither yet is it therfore to be sayde that that body is ether vnder the bread or in the bread or with the bread or in any other place than in heauen to the whiche Christ ascended Wher accordīg to his humane nature he remaineth till he shal come to iudge the quick and the dead Then the Cardinall once agayne affirmynge that he forced not Transubstanciatiō sayde that Christ in deede was to be sought in heauen Neuertheles he mixed therwith somewhat of the locall presence of Christe the opinyon of certayn Germans therof And so confounded these matters together that it well appeared he had not bin muche occupied in that article Which he him selfe witnessed also saiyng that he had spente the most part of his tyme in other businesse I graunt ye quoth Beza that we agre not with certayne of the Germans in this third article But in this one thing the grace of god is fauorable to vs al a like that with on consēt we condemne Transubstanciation and whatsoeuer dependeth thereupon And all alyke graunt and confesse the liuely communicating of the body and bloude of Christ Graūt ye then quoth the Cardinall that we in the supper do truely and substanciallye Cōmunicate with the body bloude of Iesus Christ that remainth quoth Beza For the fourth poynte We do saye in effect That the visible sygnes which naturally are eaten and dronken are touched with our sences but the thing signified namely the body and bloud of Christ truely and wtout any coloure or deceit is offered to al men but can not otherwyse be receiued but spiritually by fayth For thei be not receiued with one hande or mouth Yet neuerthelesse thys communicating is so certayn that it which we see wyth our eyes touche with our hāds cā be no surer Although the misery of this cōmuniō of the vertue of the holy ghost nether cā by sence be perceiued nor by the cōpasse of oure wit comprehended The Cardinall affirmed that he was satysfied wyth these reasons And that openly testifyed to the Queene Geuing good hope that there shoulde ensue some happye ende of thys conference He entreated also and desyred Beza that he would oftener talke and conferre with him of these matters that so at last they myghte make some waye to peace and concorde So those that heard thereof were in greate hope of better successe But therewithall some came to the Cardinall willing hym to cōtinue in hys first purpose easely suspecting that which afterwards happened For the next day there was a rumour spred not only in the court but also in Poyssye yea and afterwardes caryed into farre countreyes that at the fyrste meting Beza was ouercome cōuerted by the Cardinals labour And to cōclude that we had now taken the foyle These and diuers suche other tales as custome is were forged spred abrode which although they might be cōfuted with the witnesse of many credible persons yet now at last in tyme prouing themselues lyes to their great shame y◠first fayned them are vanished awaye Whē as the tyme was thus prolonged and no answer made vnto vs we came to the nobles of the realm and earnestly desyred thē that we myght be heard Least in ouerpasting so mete an occasion those by whō we were sent mighte seme to sustayne any shame or reproch But chiefely we required that those cōditions which we first proposed might be obserued and that we myght not otherwise couple with our aduersaries But chefely that they might not be their owne iudges in the matter And that whatsoeuer shuld happen might hereafter appeare more certain we required an answere in writing Which whē it was denied vnto vs we came to the Queene desiring and beseching her to graunt to our requestes There wer present the king of Nauarre the prince of Conde the admiral the Chancelour The Queene answered that the Bishops shuld in no wise be our iudges And that such thigs as wer done one of the kinges secretaries shuld register which was one of thē whō we call secrytaryes of cōmaundements And if we would our selues pen our disputatiōs we might lawfully doe it And whereas in decreeing of doctrines we would groūde only vpō the authority of the Scriptures that we might opēly proteste And that the kyng which had takē vs into hys tuycyō would be present at it with the rest of the nobility But she cōmaunded vs to do al thyngs moderatly and wisely respecting onely the glory of God of the aduauncement wherof she thought vs desyrous But that these thinges should be geuē vnto vs in writinge she thougth it was not expediente for many causes Neuerthelesse she promised we shoulde haue it if we had nede thereof Willing vs to credite no lesse her worde thā her writing Forasmuche as if she meante to deceiue vs her writing could not let her Immediatly after our departure came the doctours of the Sorbonistes desiring the Quene that she woulde not vouchsafe to heare vs. But if she were determined to heare vs at the least that she should not suffer the kyng to be present therat For that it was great perill as they sayd least the king in this his tender age shoulde be seasoned wyth vnsounde doctrine from the which afterwardes he should hardly be withdrawen And that we forasmuchas we were already condemned of heresye were not to be heard at all Then the Queene aunswered that she woulde doe nothing withoute her councell Whereby they well perceiued that