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A61155 Some drops of the viall, powred out in a season when it is neither night nor day, or, Some discoveries of Iesus Christ His glory in severall books ... : all which books are here reprinted in one booke entirely after the severall impressions of them and presented to the reader / by John Saltmarsh ... Saltmarsh, John, d. 1647. 1646 (1646) Wing S503; ESTC R2317 176,771 226

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from all kinde of mixt communicatings in the constituting as well Churches as Ordinances and Administrations and so at length become either Congregationall or of the other way But many of us tooke such of the Presbyteriall way as writ and taught for a pure Reformation in partaking of Ordinances for the better according to their light And it seems they are but novices as we may gather from the Vindication-Book and are ignorant of his Presbyteriall secret or mystery of uniformity and unmixt communicating according to the grounds there Well I am yet of the purer side I like not this mystery if the way to keep out Schism be of such a kinde as drawes with it an unavoidable necessity of partaking with all sorts of sinners except onely for some present affected passions of Faith and Repentance and a Toleration of all sorts of that kinde except by excommunication where in some places whole Parishes and almost in all Parishes many must stand either excommunicated by the Classis or Presbytery or Reformed which is impossible or as frequent partakers of Ordinances spirituall fellowship as the best and purest which is intolerable C. Indeed I am glad you come off so well already I will not meddle with the present state of some of these first particulars in difference I named to you but leave them to the Authors but come to some of the more questionable For that Controversie betwixt the Brethren which is Whether Judas received or not I know there are divers Leaves of Paper writ upon it in the Vindication and many learned men are quoted and Scriptures brought in on both sides and harmoniously compared but since the Lord left it so disputable as some imagine we must not do in such doubtfull sayings as those Disciples did who because Christ said of John If I will that he tarry till I come what is that to thee and it was reported amongst the Disciples that that Disciple should not die though Christ said not he should not dye but onely what if I will that he tarry So if the Lord hath not clearly said that Judas was there why goeth it so amongst the Disciples as if he were there without all contradiction but if he were and Christ gave it to Judas as for my part I make it not any such ground though he and all others do because it will not be clear then that he gave it to Judas as a wicked man or a formall Disciple for I know Christ administred then as an outward Dispenser to the Church or chiefe pastour and in his Body unglorifyed whereby he kept close to the analogy of visible Administration of Ordinances and in President and Precept for the future to his Churches for all ages and so all their puzling may be at an end I will now acquaint you further with some Arguments or Inferences from the Vindication which I have to strengthen you Vindication Fol. 36. THat no Minister not knowing the present change or inclination of the heart of any or whether God by this very duty may not really convert him ought to administer the Sacrament Inference Whence we may infer That all sorts of sinners never so prophane and abominable yet upon any present affected counterfeited formall pretence of Faith and Repentance ought to partake in all things of the most spirituall nature and fellowship and withall of the most spirituall and sincere profession contrary to these Scriptures 1 Pet. 2. 9. 2 Cor. 6. 14 15 16 17 18. Isai 52. 11. Gal. 5. 9. Vindication Fol. 37. The Brethrens Reason That in the Sacrament there is a neerer application of the Word and Promises in particular of the right and interest in them more then in the Word preached which the Vindication saith is just like the late Archbishop of Cante●buries Doctrine for bowing at the Altar as Gods great place of presence Inference Whence we may infer that the Vindication doth very uncharitably compare Doctrines and Principles viz. his Brethrens with those of Prelacy and his Brethren with the grossest of Prelates and their Principles of spirituall Administration and Communion with those of a most Idolatrous and externall nature which is contrary to these Scriptures Iames 4. 12. Matth. 7. 1 3 c. 1 Pet. 3. 8. Vindication Fol. 37. That the Minister administring the Sacrament to any known impenitent sinners yet under the Notion of penitent and repenting sinners for that time discharges himselfe Inference Whence we may infer That a Minister ought to comply with the Hypocrisies pretences co●plianc●s formes of any notorious scandalous or impenitent sinner at that time only in the aparition or resemblance of a Saint and a Woolf in Sheeps clothing contrary to these Scriptures 1 Tim. 5. 21 22. Math. 15. 26. 2 Tim. 3. 5. 1 Thes 5. 22. 1 Cor. 6. 16. Vindication Fol. 37 38. That the words of Institution in the Sacrament The Body of Christ which was broken and the Bloud of Christ shed for you is not of any Divine Institution but humane only though warrantably practised Inference Whence we may infer That he in affirming the Institution to be only humane and yet warrantable is not only an impeaching of their worship of God in the highest and most spirituall Admirations of Will-worship and humane invention and want of conformity to the Rule or Word but even a flat contradiction in a Scripture sense because he addes Yet warrantably practised as if an unlawfull way of worship as all will-worship is might be lawfully practised which is contrary to these Scriptures Matth. 15. 3 9. Isai 29. 13 14. Gal. 3. 15. Iohn 10. 4 5. Matth. 6. 44. Tit. 1. 14. Rev. 14 9 10. Vindication Fol. 38. That the Sacrament of the Lords Supper belongs of right to all visible knowing Members of the visible Church as well as the Sacrament of Baptisme Inference Whence we may infer That in this his equalizing all Ordinances under this Notion of knowing Members that either children are not capable of Baptisme because not knowing Members and upon this ground of his wrongfully Baptized or if right Members yet deprived of the other Sacrament of the Supper to which as visible Members they have right as well as to the other there being no distinction of knowing and unknowing Members in this sense or else that they may partake in that Ordinance of Baptisme and be signed or sealed and yet no right Members of a visible Church Vindication Fol. 38. That that of not casting Pearles before Swine in Matth. 7. 6 10 14. is expresly determined in 2 Pet. 2 1 2 21 22. and Heb. 10. 28 29. to open Apostates not to scandalous sinners who duly repaire to publish Ordinances and externally professe Reformation and Repentance and to apply this Text to these is a meer perverting of it Inference Whence we may infer That this cuts off the Brethren of the more purely-Presbyteriall way fully from all their foundation-Texts of any more spirituall distribution of Holy Ordinances or any
had All the Works wrought in us then were freely of God and of free-gift too as Arminius well observes in the point of universall Grace and we wrought only from a gift given Either place Salvation upon a free bottom or else you make the New Covenant but an Old Covenant in new tearmes in stead of Do this and live Beleeve this and live repent and live obey and live And all this is for want of revealing the mystery more fully To your third That where we find Faith only preached and so Salvation made short work that it is because we have but the Summaries I agree with you that we have but the Doctrine of the Apostles as Johns of whom it is said He spake many other things in his exhortation to the people It is true we have much of what they said and we want much yet we have so much as may shew us that according to the work of Salvation in us Faith is the worke which gives most glory to God Abraham believed it is said and gave glory to God they that beleeve give glory and Faith of all the works of the Spirit is the glorious Gospell-worke Christ cals it the worke indeed this is the worke that ye beleeve So as the only reason why we heare so much of Faith in the Gospell is not only and meerely as you insinuate because we have but their Sermons in Summaries and because of another reason of yours drawn from the qualification of some they Preached to that had other gifts and not Faith But because Faith is of all Spirituall encreasings in us the most gloriously working towards Christ Faith goes out and Faith depends and Faith lives in Christ and Faith brings down Christ and Faith opens the riches and Faith beleeves home all strength comfort glory peace promises And Faith hath so much put upon it as becomes a stumbling stone and a rock of offence to many Justification imputation of righteousnesse is put upon Faith Salvation upon Faith as Christs Bloud is put upon the Wine the Cup that we blesse is it not the Communion of the bloud of Christ and Christs body upon the bread the bread that we breake is it not the Communion of the body of Christ and yet neither the Wine nor the Bread is his Bloud or his Body no more then Faith is either Justification or Righteousnesse but such a work as goes out most into him and carries the soule into him who is Righteousnesse and Justification to us The Word were no mystery if it were not thus ordered and things so mingled that the Spirit only could discerne and distinguish Do not the Papists stumble at Works And why because they see not Faith for Works And do not others stumble at Faith And why because they see not Christ for Faith Do not some say that the words world and all and every man makes some stumble at the Election of some and so conclude Redemption for all Master Gataker 1 That Christ and his Apostles never Preached Free-grace without conditions and qualifications on our parts Rom 8. 1. Mat. 5. 8. c. 2 Christs Bloud or Wine is not to be filled out too freely to Dogs and Swine to sturdy Rogues 3 That saying promises belongs to sinners as sinners not as humbled c. and all that received him received him in a sinfull condition is a creeping to Antinomiamsme 4 That God may be provoked to wrath by his Children and David and Peter made their peace with God by repentance 5 That God loves us for his own graces in us God is as man and as a Father is angry and chastiseth his for sin 6 Faith is not a perswasion more or lesse of Christs love all may have that men may beleeve too suddenly as Simon Magus 7 Christ bids us repent as well as beleeve yea first to repent we are to try our Faith 2 Cor. 13. 5. 1 John 4. 1. 8 That he clog● men with conditions of taking and receiving as well as we of repenting and obeying 9 The summe of this mans Divinity is Men may be saved whether they repent or no whether they beleeve or no. Answer To the first That Christ and his Apostles never Preached Free-grace without conditions c. on our parts I answer They Preached Faith and Repentance and Obedience But how First in degrees of Revelation the Gospell came not all out at once in its glory They Preached them but how not in parts as we have their Doctrine as you confesse they Preached them but all along in the New Testament there is more of their glory and fulnesse revealed concerning them so as the degrees of revealing the parts or summaries of their Sermons the fuller discovery in the whole New Testament are those things you consider not and they are the things we only consider and so dare not Preach the Gospell so in halfes in parts and quarters as you do and yet will not beleeve you do which is so much worse Ye say ye see and therefore your sin remaineth To the second Christ Bloud is not to be filled out to Rogues and Dogs Take heed you charge not Christ for being with Publicans and Sinners you may upon this ground say he Preached false Doctrine because he said He came not to call the Righteous but Sinners What were all of us in our unregenerate condition sinners or righteous persons unholy or holy men of Faith or unbeliefe or not rather dead intrespasses and sins till quickned with Christ To the third That saying Promises belongs to sinners as sinners and not humbled c. I pray to whom doth all Promises belong first but to Christ and from whom to us but from Christ and what are the Elect and the chosen in him before they are called or beleeve but sinners as sinners Do you look that men should be first whole for the Physitian or Righteous for Pardon of sins or justified for Christ or rather sinners unrighteous ungodly While we were yet sinners Christ dyed for us He dyed for the ungodly Christ is the Physitian the Righteousnesse the Sanctification and makes them beleved that were not beloved and to obtaine mercy that had not obtained mercy and Saints who were Sinners and Spirituall who were Carnall So as we looke at Christ and the Promises comming to men in their sins but those men were beloved of God in Christ who suffered for sins before so as they begin not now to be loved but to be made to love God begins not to be reconciled to them but they begin to be reconciled to him The love of God being shed abroad into their hearts by the Holy Ghost which is now given unto them So as we looking at persons as chosen in Christ and at their sins as borne by Christ on his body on the Tree we see nothing in persons to hinder them from the Gospell and offers of Grace there be they never so sinfull to us or themselves they