Selected quad for the lemma: blood_n
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A27370
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A letter written by a minister for the satisfaction of a person doubting in religion shewn to be unsatisfactory.
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P. I., Minister.; T. B.; J. W.
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1686
(1686)
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Wing B185; ESTC R10043
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13,702
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41
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no doubt nor uncertainty in this matter but that you do fully absolutely and without reservation forever renounce all your part and hope in the Body and Blood of Christ if this Sacrament now by you Consecrated be not the very same natural flesh and natural Blood which was formed in the Virgins Womb hung upon the Cross was buried arose and now sits at Gods right hand but is so changed that upon the speaking of the words here 's no more substance of Bread and Wine but the Smell Colour Form and all other Accidents of Bread and Wine are truly remaining without any subject matter for them to remain in That your Eyes Nose Hands Palate do deceive you in their judgment about the substance but at the same time do not deceive you about the Accidents of Bread and Wine I beg that you will press him for a clear resolution of the former Questions and this last especially as touching himself and transmit it to me which shall ever be acknowledged your kindness to me as well as justice to your self T. B. AN ANSWER To the fore-going PAPER SIR I Received a Paper of yours to which you require a Satisfactory Answer and desire earnestly of your Friend to press me for a Clear Resolution I must in the first place acknowledge very heartily that you are the most civil Adversary I ever yet met with For you are so far from attacking me rudely or pressing me with any Argument as other brisker Disputants use that you do not so much as attempt to offer any nor scarce advance one single Proposition nay not so much as put down your own Tenet expresly Which certainly is the most civil way of Disputing that ever was heard of if indeed it may be allow'd that Name and ought not rather be call'd a saying just Nothing all your performance in this Paper being as you here tell us to touch a few Doubts and I must confess you touch them very gingerly I suppose lest being prest they should discover their soft temper Your gentile way of setting upon me is to ask me Questions I will not object the Proverb That a Fool may ask more Questions than a Wise man can answer for it neither suits with you nor me Not with you for by proceeding in this method you shew your self a deep Politician and keep out of the reach nay out of the possibility of a Confutation since no man living knows how to take hold of an Adversary who affirms nothing himself but onely asks another Onely I must say this way of handling Controversie by Catechizing your Adversary instead of Arguing against him is an invention so pleasant and surprizing so new and so unheard of to the dull World hitherto that you have all the right and reason in the World to get a Patent for it that none may use it without your License Nor will that Proverb sute with me for I hope you are well satisfied you shall never fail of an Answer from me when you produce any substantial proofs since you see I have that respect for you as to undergo here for your sake the drudgery to sweep down your very Cobwebs Now your Arguments being so perfectly unconquerable for they are altogether invisible it was but reason you should say that no less than an Answer of weight to this Paper would content you Though I cannot comprehend the Mystery why the Answer needs be so weighty when there is nothing but a few feathers and straws in the counterballance yet I must seriously grant that 't is in some cases requisite that Questions should be askt when the Adversary's Tenet is not well understood that so the Arguments may not be wrong levell'd against some position which perhaps he neither holds nor maintains For this gives the Arguer a right aim and makes clearer way for the future Dispute But alas your modest way of arguing has no such high ambition for you tell us here very learnedly This Paper shall onely touch a few Doubts many more being reserv'd to be propos'd when these are clear'd So that for any thing I see or am to expect your intention is onely to go on asking Questions to the end of the Chapter and so turn the Controversie into a meer Catechism consisting onely of Questions and Answers onely you provide wisely that your self bear the easier and more honourable part in the Dialogue and assuming to your self the magestical Office of the Catechist make me the poor ignorant Catechumen to be pos'd at your pleasure But I beseech you Sir that we may be a little serious what needs this fluttering about with Questions and other frivolous pretences as if you were ignorant what I held about Transubstantiation or what the person concern'd is to hold for Faith You know well enough before-hand 't is already publickly extant in the Council of Trent so that you might have sav'd all this sleeveless labour and have fallen to work with your Arguments to combat its Definition in this particular point If you overthrow that you reduce J. W. and make a Proselyte of me too if you do not we both stand where we were and all your feeble Talk is utterly insignificant This Council is received as to matters of Faith by the whole diffusive Body of all those particular Churches in Communion with the Roman and proceeds all along upon the Rule of Catholic Faith Tradition If you will go to work like a Controvertist you ought to impugn her and us by Scripture interpreted by as great Authority proceeding upon that Rule or some other more certain for all Arguments of less weight cannot with any shew of Reason pretend to shock her or the Faith she recommends and all other Proofs had you any would be but running voluntary divisions upon your own Fancy If then you have the least hope to gain credit to your explications of Scripture which are contrary to hers it were advisable you should first shew evidently to the World what Natural Means you have above the whole Body of the Roman Catholic Church enabling you to understand Scripture better than she does Or if you pretend to Supernatural Gifts above her shew us some Supernatural outward Testimony certifying us of this invisible qualification you lay claim to If you do either of these you will do wonders but I am sure and your self is conscious you are so utterly unable to manifest that your self or the Protestant Church have either of these advantages above the Catholic that as it was never attempted though it would most highly avail your Cause could you compass it so the very going about it would shame the Attempter And unless you do this what man in his wits will believe you understand Scripture better than that Great and most Learned Body of the Roman Catholic Church This being as absurd as to think a man may compass an End better without better means that is as to that degree which is better without means This is your Duty
glimmering hope of your Conversion For in case there be in the Sacrament something more than a Sign as you seem here to acknowledge is your true Tenet you must say the thing signify'd is there too and so we are good Friends But because this unexpected Confession of yours like the first New in a Gazette needs a Confirmation I beseech you to satisfie me clearly what this Thing is in the Sacrament which is more or more than a Sign This way of questioning is the worst way of explaining in the world though it be a special stratagem to avoid Confute Your Proposals that follow are very Extraordinary I little thought that when you had done Catechizing me you would put me to Swearing nor that when I expected Arguments from another I should be forced to take my Oath my self that my Faith is true But that you may have no cause to complain I will gratifie you in that too and do here frankly declare without any Equivocation which I abhor in an Oath that I do renounce all my hopes of Heaven which is more than you put me to provided there be no fault in the matter nor in the Priest if there be not present in the Sacrament after the words of Consecration Christ's very true Body which was born of the Virgin suffer'd on the Cross was buried arose and now sits at God's right hand and this by the Conversion of the whole Substance of the Bread into his Body as also of the Wine into his Bloud the Species onely of Bread and Wine remaining as is declared in the Council of Trent Sess 13. Can. 2. But now Sir having done this take notice that I must in requital challenge from you the same deep Protestation that your Negative Faith or Opinion is True If you refuse since your exacting it of me has made it decent equitable and just you are convinced to be a very ill man and to doubt of the Faith you profess to hold your self and propose to others as the way to Salvation And if you do it yet acknowledge your own Interpretations of Scripture and your Churches too which grounds all your Faith to be Fallible you are one of the boldest and rashest Swearers that ever called himself a Christian and in either case must lose your credit for ever with your Flock and Auditory But that we may draw to a Conclusion I beseech you Sir if you have any more to say to me let 's have no more of this trifling Consider what you are about you are about Controversie whose work it is to settle Christian Faith upon certain Grounds and since you profess your Faith to have been taught by Christ this is requir'd of your if you have any such Faith to settle or Grounds to settle it on Go to work like a Scholar and do not thus expose your self for Children to laugh at Lay your Principles first then draw your Consequences warrant them rightly deduc'd and bring them to the Conclusion or the Position that is contradictory to your Adversaries Tenet 'T is manly to affirm confidently what one holds heartily 't is becoming a Man to argue against your Adversary smartly and not to spare him but 't is the height of ridiculousness to task him only with Questions and putting him to make sacred Protestations instead of combating him with your Reasons Whenas you knew well enough before-hand what he holds and what he would Answer One thing I must needs re-mind you of at parting because I fear you will be apt to forget it which is that you bear in memory the Oath you owe me that your Tenets are True that is That Christ's True Body is not in the Sacrament That there is no Third or Middle State called Purgatory no Transubstantiation c. Then to uphold the Opinion of your Sincerity let us know what Certain Grounds you confide in to secure you from being Perjur'd The taking this Test may qualifie you in time for some great Office for if your Fallible Principles will justifie your Honesty in taking such an Oath I do not know what you may not be fit for next FINIS