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blood_n bread_n jesus_n wine_n 12,878 5 7.8448 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A05161 A relation of the conference betweene William Lavvd, then, Lrd. Bishop of St. Davids; now, Lord Arch-Bishop of Canterbury: and Mr. Fisher the Jesuite by the command of King James of ever blessed memorie. VVith an answer to such exceptions as A.C. takes against it. By the sayd Most Reverend Father in God, William, Lord Arch-Bishop of Canterbury. Laud, William, 1573-1645. 1639 (1639) STC 15298; ESTC S113162 390,425 418

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trent_n oppose_v this_o word_n realiter_fw-la figmento_fw-la calvinistico_fw-la to_o the_o calvinistic●…ll_n figment_n ibid._n bellarmine_n confess_v it_o for_o he_o say_v protestant_n do_v often_o grant_v that_o the_o true_a and_o real_a body_n of_o christ_n be_v in_o the_o eucharist_n but_o he_o add_v that_o they_o never_o say_v so_o far_o as_o he_o have_v read_v that_o it_o be_v there_o ●…ruly_o and_o real_o unless_o they_o speak_v of_o the_o supper_n which_o shall_v be_v in_o heaven_n well_o first_o if_o they_o grant_v that_o the_o true_a and_o real_a body_n of_o christ_n be_v in_o that_o bless_a sacrament_n as_o bellarmine_n confess_v they_o do_v and_o it_o be_v most_o true_a then_o a._n c._n be_v false_a who_o charge_v all_o the_o protestant_n with_o denial_n or_o doubtfulness_n in_o this_o point_n and_o 65._o a._n c._n p_o 65._o second_o bellarmine_n himself_o also_o show_v here_o his_o ignorance_n or_o his_o malice_n ignorance_n if_o he_o know_v it_o not_o malice_n if_o he_o will_v not_o know_v it_o for_o the_o calvinist_n at_o least_o they_o which_o follow_v calvine_n himself_o do_v not_o only_o believe_v that_o the_o true_a and_o real_a body_n of_o christ_n be_v receive_v in_o the_o eucharist_n but_o that_o it_o be_v there_o and_o that_o we_o partake_v of_o it_o verè_fw-la &_o realiter_fw-la which_o be_v 3._o be_v calv._n in_o 1._o cor._n 10._o 3._o verè_fw-la etc._n etc._n &_o in_o 1._o cor._n 11._o 24._o realiter_fw-la vids_n suprà_fw-la num._n 3._o calvine_n own_o word_n and_o yet_o bellarmine_n bold_o affirm_v that_o to_o his_o read_n no_o one_o protestant_n do_v ever_o affirm_v it_o and_o i_o for_o my_o part_n can_v believe_v but_o bellarmine_n have_v read_v calvine_n and_o very_o careful_o he_o do_v so_o frequent_o and_o so_o main_o oppose_v he_o nor_o can_v that_o place_n by_o any_o art_n be_v shift_v or_o by_o any_o violence_n wrest_v from_o calvine_n true_a meaning_n of_o the_o presence_n of_o christ_n in_o and_o at_o the_o bless_a sacrament_n 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be_v give_v take_v and_o eat_v in_o the_o supper_n of_o the_o lord_n only_o after_o a_o heavenly_a and_o spiritual_a manner_n and_o the_o mean_n whereby_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n be_v receive_v and_o eat_v be_v faith_n eccl._n ang._n art_n 28._o so_o here_o be_v the_o manner_n of_o transubstantiation_n deny_v but_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n twice_o affirm_v and_o in_o the_o prayer_n before_o consecration_n thus_o grant_v we_o gracious_a lord_n so_o to_o eat_v the_o flesh_n of_o thy_o dear_a son_n jesus_n christ_n and_o to_o drink_v his_o blood_n etc._n etc._n and_o again_o in_o the_o second_o prayer_n or_o thanksgiving_n after_o consecration_n thus_o we_o give_v thou_o thanks_o for_o that_o thou_o do_v vouchsafe_v to_o feed_v we_o which_o have_v due_o receive_v these_o holy_a mystery_n with_o the_o spiritual_a food_n of_o the_o most_o precious_a body_n and_o blood_n of_o thy_o son_n our_o saviour_n jesus_n christ_n etc._n etc._n eucharist_n unless_o a._n c._n can_v make_v a_o 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unlearned_a in_o those_o time_n and_o all_o time_n their_o zeal_n they_o hold_v the_o foundation_n may_v eat_v out_o their_o ignorances_n and_o leave_v they_o safe_a now_o that_o the_o learned_a protestant_n in_o q._n mary_n day_n do_v not_o deny_v nay_o do_v maintain_v the_o real_a presence_n will_v manifest_o appear_v for_o when_o the_o commissioner_n obtrude_v to_o io._n frith_n the_o presence_n of_o christ_n natural_a body_n in_o the_o sacrament_n and_o that_o without_o all_o figure_n or_o similitude_n io._n frith_n acknowledge_v 943._o acknowledge_v io._n fox_n mar●…rolog_n to._n 2._o london_n 1597._o pag._n 943._o that_o the_o inward_a man_n do_v as_o very_o receive_v christ_n body_n as_o the_o outward_a man_n receive_v the_o sacrament_n with_o his_o mouth_n and_o he_o add_v ibid._n add_v fox_n ibid._n that_o neither_o side_n ought_v to_o make_v it_o a_o necessary_a article_n of_o faith_n but_o leave_v it_o indifferent_a nay_o archbishop_n cranmer_n come_v more_o plain_o and_o more_o home_n to_o it_o then_o frith_n for_o if_o you_o understand_v say_v 1301._o say_v cranmer_n apud_fw-la fox_n ibid._n p._n 1301._o he_o by_o this_o word_n really_n reipsâ_fw-la that_o be_v in_o very_a deed_n and_o effectual_o so_o christ_n by_o the_o grace_n and_o efficacy_n of_o his_o passion_n be_v indeed_o and_o true_o present_a etc._n etc._n but_o if_o by_o this_o word_n really_n you_o understand_v c._n understand_v i_o say_v corporalitèr_fw-la corporal_o for_o so_o bellarmine_n have_v it_o express_o quod_fw-la autem_fw-la corporalitèr_fw-la &_o propriè_fw-la sumatur_fw-la sanguis_fw-la &_o caro_fw-la etc._n etc._n probari_fw-la potest_fw-la omnibus_fw-la argumentis_fw-la etc._n etc._n bellar._n l._n 1._o de_fw-fr eucharist_n c._n 12._o §._o sed_fw-la tota_fw-la and_o i_o must_v be_v bold_a to_o tell_v you_o more_o then_o that_o this_o be_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n for_o i_o must_v tell_v you_o too_o that_o bellarmine_n here_o contradict_v himself_o for_o he_o that_o tell_v we_o here_o that_o it_o can_v be_v prove_v by_o many_o argument_n that_o we_o receive_v the_o flesh_n and_o the_o blood_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o eucharist_n corporaliter_fw-la say_v as_o express_o before_o have_v he_o remember_v it_o that_o though_o christ_n be_v in_o this_o bless_a sacrament_n verè_fw-la &_o realiter_fw-la yet_o say_v he_o non_fw-la dicemus_fw-la corporaliter_fw-la i._n e._n co_fw-la modo_fw-la quo_fw-la suâ_fw-la naturâ_fw-la existunt_fw-la corpora_fw-la etc._n etc._n bellar._n l._n 1._o de_fw-fr euchar._n c._n 2._o §._o tertia_fw-la regula_n so_o bellarm._n here_o be_v in_o a_o notorious_a contradiction_n or_o else_o it_o will_v follow_v plain_o out_o of_o he_o that_o christ_n in_o the_o sacrament_n be_v existent_a one_o way_n and_o receive_v another_o which_o be_v a_o gross_a absurdity_n and_o that_o corporaliter_fw-la be_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o mean_v by_o transubstantiation_n be_v far_a plain_n in_o the_o book_n call_v the_o institution_n of_o a_o christian_a man_n set_v forth_o by_o the_o bishop_n in_o convocation_n in_o hen._n 8._o time_n a_o 1534_o cap._n of_o the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o altar_n the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d una●…r_v the_o form_n and_o figure_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n the_o very_a body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n be_v corporal_o real_o etc._n etc._n exhibit_v and_o receive_v etc._n etc._n and_o aquinas_n express_v it_o thus_o quia_fw-la tamen_fw-la substantia_fw-la corporis_fw-la christi_fw-la realiter_fw-la non_fw-la d●…iditur_fw-la à_fw-la sva_fw-la quantitate_fw-la dimensiuâ_fw-la &_o ab_fw-la aliis_fw-la 〈◊〉_d ●…bus_fw-la indè_fw-la est_fw-la quod_fw-la ex_fw-la virealis_fw-la concomitantiae_fw-la est_fw-la in_o hoc_fw-la sacramento_n tota_fw-la quantitas_fw-la dimensiva_fw-la corporis_fw-la christi_fw-la &_o omne_fw-la accidentia_fw-la ejus_fw-la tho._n p._n 3._o q._n 76._o ar._n 4._o c._n corporaliter_fw-la corporal_o in_o his_o natural_a and_o organical_a body_n under_o the_o form_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n it_o
spiritualiter_fw-la idest_fw-la invisibiliter_fw-la &_o per_fw-la virtutem_fw-la spiritus_fw-la sancti_fw-la thom._n p._n 3._o q._n 75._o a._n 1._o ad_fw-la 1_o um_o spiritualiter_fw-la manducandus_fw-la est_fw-la per_fw-la fidem_fw-la &_o charitatem_fw-la tena_n in_o heb._n 13._o difficultate_fw-la 8._o faith_n make_v spiritual_o partaker_n of_o the_o true_a and_o real_a body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n etc._n christ_n i_o will_v have_v no_o man_n trouble_v at_o the_o word_n true_o and_o real_o for_o that_o bless_a sacrament_n receive_v as_o it_o ought_v to_o be_v do_v true_o and_o real_o exhibit_v and_o apply_v the_o body_n and_o the_o blood_n of_o christ_n to_o the_o receiver_n so_o bishop_n white_a in_o his_o defence_n against_o t._n w._n p._n edit_n london_n 1617._o p._n 138._o and_o calvin_n in_o 1_o cor._n 10._o 3._o verè_fw-la datur_fw-la etc._n etc._n and_o again_o in_o 1_o cor._n 11._o 24._o neque_fw-la enim_fw-la mortis_fw-la tantùm_fw-la &_o resurrectionis_fw-la suae_fw-la beneficium_fw-la nobis_fw-la offer_v christus_fw-la sed_fw-la corpus_fw-la ipsum_fw-la in_o quo_fw-la passus_fw-la est_fw-la &_o resurrexit_fw-la concludo_fw-la realiter_fw-la ut_fw-la vulgò_fw-la loquuntur_fw-la hoc_fw-la est_fw-la verè_fw-la nobis_fw-la in_o coenâ_fw-la datur_fw-la christi_fw-la corpus_fw-la ut_fw-la sit_fw-la animis_fw-la nostris_fw-la in_o cibum_fw-la salutarem_fw-la etc._n etc._n true_o and_o real_o and_o of_o all_o the_o benefit_n of_o his_o passion_n your_o roman_a catholic_n add_v a_o manner_n of_o this_o his_o presence_n transubstantiation_n which_o many_o deny_v and_o the_o lutheran_n a_o manner_n of_o this_o presence_n consubstantiation_n which_o more_o deny_v if_o this_o argument_n be_v good_a then_o even_o for_o this_o consent_n it_o be_v safe_a communicate_v with_o the_o church_n of_o england_n then_o with_o the_o roman_a or_o lutheran_n because_o all_o agree_v in_o this_o truth_n not_o in_o any_o other_o opinion_n nay_o 2._o nay_o ho_o totum_fw-la pendet_fw-la ex_fw-la principiis_fw-la metaphysicis_fw-la &_o philosophicis_fw-la &_o ad_fw-la fidei_fw-la doctrinam_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la necessarium_fw-la suarez_n i●…_n 3._o thom._n disput._n 50._o §._o 2._o suarez_n himself_o and_o he_o a_o very_a learned_a adversary_n what_o say_v you_o to_o this_o a._n c_o do_v truth_n force_v this_o from_o he_o confess_v plain_o †_o that_o to_o believe_v transubstantiation_n be_v not_o simple_o necessary_a 65._o a._n c._n p._n 64._o 65._o to_o salvation_n and_o yet_o he_o know_v well_o the_o church_n have_v determine_v it_o and_o colligimus_fw-la and_o bellar._n l._n 3._o de_fw-fr eucha_n c._n 18._o §._o exit_fw-la he_o colligimus_fw-la bellarmine_n after_o a_o intricate_a tedious_a and_o almost_o inexplicable_a discourse_n about_o a_o adductive_a conversion_n a_o thing_n which_o neither_o divinity_n nor_o philosophy_n ever_o hear_v of_o till_o then_o be_v at_o last_o force_v to_o come_v to_o this_o 3_o this_o sed_fw-la quidquid_fw-la fit_a de_fw-la modis_fw-la loquendi_fw-la illud_fw-la tenendum_fw-la est_fw-la conversionem_fw-la panis_n &_o uini_fw-la in_o corpus_fw-la &_o sanguinem_fw-la christi_fw-la esse_fw-la substantialem_fw-la sed_fw-la arcanam_fw-la &_o ineffabilem_fw-la &_o nullis_fw-la naturalibus_fw-la conversionibus_fw-la per_fw-la omne_fw-la similem_fw-la etc._n etc._n bellar._n in_o recognit_n huius_fw-la loci_fw-la et_fw-fr vid._n §._o 38._o nu._n 3_o whatsoever_o be_v concern_v the_o manner_n and_o form_n of_o speech_n illud_fw-la tenendum_fw-la est_fw-la this_o be_v to_o be_v hold_v that_o the_o conversion_n of_o the_o bread_n and_o wine_n into_o the_o body_n and_o the_o blood_n of_o christ_n be_v substantial_a but_o after_o a_o secret_a and_o ineffable_a manner_n and_o not_o like_a in_o all_o thing_n to_o any_o natural_a conversion_n whatsoever_o now_o if_o he_o have_v leave_v out_o conversion_n and_o affirm_v only_a christ_n real_a presence_n there_o after_o a_o mysterious_a and_o indeed_o a_o ineffable_a manner_n no_o man_n can_v have_v speak_v better_a and_o therefore_o if_o you_o will_v force_v the_o argument_n always_o to_o make_v that_o the_o safe_a way_n of_o salvation_n which_o differ_v party_n agree_v on_o why_o do_v you_o not_o yield_v to_o the_o force_n of_o the_o same_o argument_n in_o the_o belief_n of_o the_o sacrament_n one_o of_o the_o most_o immediate_a mean_n of_o salvation_n where_o not_o only_o the_o most_o but_o all_o agree_v and_o your_o own_o great_a clerk_n can_v tell_v what_o to_o say_v to_o the_o contrary_a i_o speak_v here_o for_o the_o force_n of_o the_o argument_n which_o certain_o in_o itself_o be_v nothing_o though_o by_o a._n c._n make_v of_o great_a account_n for_o he_o say_v it_o be_v a_o 64._o a._n c._n p._n 64._o confession_n of_o adversary_n extort_a by_o truth_n just_o as_o 6._o as_o sed_fw-la quia_fw-la it_o a_o magnum_fw-la firmamentum_fw-la vanitatis_fw-la vestrae_fw-la in_o hâc_fw-la sententia_fw-la esse_fw-la abitramini_fw-la ut_fw-la ad_fw-la hoc_fw-la ti●…_n terminandam_fw-la putares_fw-la epistolam_fw-la quo_fw-la quasi_fw-la recentiùs_fw-la in_o animus_fw-la legentium_fw-la remaneret_fw-la brevitèr_fw-la respondeo_fw-la etc._n etc._n s._n aug._n l._n 2._o cont_n lit._n petil._n c._n 108._o andhere_v a._n c._n ad_fw-la hoc_fw-la sibi_fw-la putavit_fw-la terminandam_fw-la collationem_fw-la sed_fw-la frustra_fw-la ut_fw-la ap●…bit_fw-la num._n 6._o petilian_n the_o donatist_n brag_v in_o the_o case_n of_o baptism_n but_o in_o truth_n it_o be_v nothing_o for_o the_o syllogism_n which_o it_o frame_v be_v this_o the_o papist_n and_o the_o protestant_n which_o be_v the_o party_n differ_v agree_v in_o this_o that_o there_o be_v salvation_n possible_a to_o be_v find_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n but_o in_o point_n of_o faith_n and_o salvation_n it_o be_v safe_a for_o a_o man_n to_o take_v that_o way_n which_o the_o differ_a party_n agree_v on_o therefore_o it_o be_v safe_a for_o a_o man_n to_o be_v and_o continue_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n to_o the_o major_a proposition_n then_o i_o observe_v first_o that_o though_o many_o learned_a protestant_n grant_v this_o all_o do_v not_o and_o then_o that_o proposition_n be_v not_o universal_a nor_o able_a to_o sustain_v the_o conclusion_n for_o they_o do_v not_o in_o this_o all_o agree_v nay_o i_o doubt_v not_o but_o there_o be_v some_o protestant_n which_o can_v and_o do_v as_o stiff_o and_o as_o churlish_o deny_v they_o salvation_n as_o they_o do_v we_o and_o a._n c._n shall_v do_v well_o to_o consider_v whether_o they_o do_v it_o not_o upon_o as_o good_a reason_n at_o least_o next_o for_o the_o minor_a proposition_n namely_o that_o in_o point_n of_o faith_n and_o salvation_n it_o be_v safe_a for_o a_o man_n to_o take_v that_o way_n which_o the_o adversary_n confess_v or_o the_o differ_v party_n agree_v on_o i_o faith_o that_o be_v no_o metaphysical_a principle_n but_o a_o bare_a contingent_a proposition_n and_o may_v be_v true_a or_o false_a as_o the_o matter_n be_v to_o which_o it_o be_v apply_v and_o so_o of_o no_o necessary_a truth_n in_o itself_o nor_o able_a to_o lead_v in_o the_o conclusion_n now_o that_o this_o proposition_n in_o point_n of_o faith_n and_o salvation_n it_o be_v safe_a for_o a_o man_n to_o take_v that_o way_n which_o the_o differ_a party_n agree_v on_o or_o which_o the_o adversary_n confess_v have_v no_o strength_n in_o itself_o but_o be_v sometime_o true_a and_o sometime_o false_a as_o the_o matter_n be_v about_o which_o it_o be_v conversant_a be_v most_o evident_a first_o by_o reason_n because_o consent_v of_o disagree_a party_n be_v neither_o rule_n nor_o proof_n of_o truth_n for_o herod_n and_o pilate_n disagree_v party_n enough_o yet_o agree_v against_o truth_n itself_o but_o truth_n rather_o be_v or_o shall_v be_v the_o rule_n to_o frame_v if_o not_o to_o force_v agreement_n and_o second_o by_o the_o two_o instance_n 3_o instance_n §._o 35._o n._n 3_o before_o give_v for_o in_o the_o instance_n between_o the_o orthodox_n church_n then_o and_o the_o donatist_n this_o proposition_n be_v most_o false_a for_o it_o be_v a_o point_n of_o faith_n and_o so_o of_o salvation_n that_o they_o be_v upon_o namely_o the_o right_a use_n and_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n and_o yet_o have_v it_o be_v safe_a to_o take_v up_o that_o way_n which_o the_o differ_a part_n agree_v on_o or_o which_o the_o adverse_a part_n confess_v man_n must_v needs_o have_v go_v with_o the_o donatist_n against_o the_o church_n and_o this_o must_v fall_v out_o as_o oft_o as_o any_o heretic_n will_v cunning_o take_v that_o way_n against_o the_o church_n which_o the_o donatist_n do_v if_o this_o principle_n shall_v go_v for_o currant_n but_o in_o the_o second_o instance_n concern_v the_o eucharist_n a_o matter_n of_o faith_n and_o so_o of_o salvation_n too_o the_o same_o proposition_n be_v most_o true_a and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o here_o the_o matter_n be_v true_a namely_o the_o true_a and_o real_a participation_n of_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n in_o that_o bless_a sacrament_n but_o in_o the_o former_a the_o matter_n be_v false_a namely_o that_o rebaptization_n