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blood_n bread_n cup_n eat_v 13,173 5 7.8905 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A10973 Two dialogues, or conferences (about an old question lately renued, and by the schismaticall company, both by printed pamphlets, and otherwise to the disturbance of the Churches quiet, and of peaceable minds, very hotly pursued.) Concerning kneeling in the very act of receiuing the sacramental bread and wine, in the Supper of the Lord The former betweene two ministers of the word, the one refractarie, and depriued; the other not so. The latter betweene an humorous schismatike and a setled professor. Rogers, Thomas, d. 1616. 1608 (1608) STC 21241; ESTC S116109 75,976 132

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admimistr_v the_o sacrament_n than_o christian_n have_v or_o be_v christian_n in_o more_o bondage_n this_o way_n and_o restrain_v than_o the_o jew_n and_o may_v the_o jew_n upon_o good_a consideration_n do_v these_o thing_n and_o may_v not_o christian_n without_o sin_n do_v as_o they_o do_v we_o take_v therefore_o what_o you_o acknowledge_v though_o we_o will_v not_o acknowledge_v it_o to_o be_v true_a namely_o that_o the_o manner_n of_o take_v and_o receive_v the_o passove_a be_v alter_v the_o jew_n take_v it_o at_o the_o first_o stand_v in_o process_n of_o time_n sit_v what_o gather_v you_o thereof_o schis_n hereby_o kneel_v be_v convince_v as_o be_v a_o gesture_n altogether_o unanswereable_a to_o eat_v pro._n whereof_o be_v kneel_v convince_v show_v you_o have_v not_o yet_o declare_v or_o what_o make_v the_o jew_n sit_v at_o the_o last_o or_o stand_v at_o the_o first_o to_o our_o kneel_v at_o the_o communion_n kneel_v differ_v from_o sit_v stand_v walk_v and_o the_o like_a but_o 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break_v yet_o let_v i_o put_v you_o in_o mind_n how_o the_o violate_v even_o of_o the_o moral_a and_o substantial_a precept_n of_o god_n have_v sometime_o and_o that_o by_o god_n himself_o in_o man_n eye_n and_o afore_o the_o world_n with_o less_o rigour_n and_o severity_n be_v punish_v than_o the_o contemptuous_a breach_n even_o of_o ceremonial_a ordinance_n for_o what_o i_o pray_v you_o be_v adam_n eat_v the_o forbid_a fruit_n 3._o the_o bethshemite_n pry_v into_o the_o ark_n of_o god_n 19_o vzza_n his_o touch_v of_o the_o same_o 7._o vzziah_n his_o offering_n of_o incense_n 20._o the_o man_n gather_v of_o stick_n upon_o the_o sabbath_n day_n 35_o but_o violation_n or_o breach_n of_o law_n not_o absolute_o moral_a in_o themselves_o but_o either_o typical_a or_o ceremonial_a and_o yet_o what_o sin_n be_v ever_o so_o punish_v as_o some_o of_o they_o what_o more_o horrible_a in_o god_n eye_n then_o all_o of_o they_o in_o the_o new_a testament_n touch_v the_o supper_n of_o the_o lord_n which_o we_o have_v now_o in_o hand_n the_o apostle_n say_v that_o whosoever_o shall_v eat_v this_o bread_n etc._n etc._n unworthy_o shall_v be_v guilty_a of_o the_o body_n &_o blood_n of_o the_o lord_n eat_v and_o drink_v his_o own_o damnation_n etc._n etc._n &_o procure_v weakness_n sickness_n and_o bodily_a death_n 30._o now_o who_o be_v they_o in_o that_o church_n and_o at_o that_o time_n which_o do_v eat_v unworthy_o and_o therefore_o be_v so_o chastise_v be_v they_o not_o such_o as_o transgress_v and_o will_v not_o obey_v nor_o keep_v the_o receive_a order_n of_o god_n people_n and_o despise_v his_o church_n 21._o even_o the_o public_a place_n appoint_v for_o god_n worship_n like_o unto_o those_o that_o will_v receive_v sit_v when_o by_o order_n
so_o the_o consequent_a in_o this_o your_o enthymeme_n viz._n kneel_v be_v to_o be_v remove_v from_o the_o supper_n of_o the_o lord_n be_v of_o no_o validity_n both_o because_o it_o follow_v not_o from_o the_o premise_n and_o be_v force_v and_o infer_v against_o your_o conscience_n the_o four_o objection_n s._n it_o be_v a_o offence_n to_o the_o weak_a ergo._fw-la etc._n etc._n mat._n 18._o 6._o &_o seq_n rom._n 14._o 20_o 21._o 1._o cor._n 8._o 12_o 13_o &_o 10._o 28_o 29_o 30._o r._n it_o be_v a_o offence_n to_o the_o weak_a ergo_fw-la etc._n etc._n what_o till_o i_o know_v your_o consequent_a this_o shall_v be_v my_o answer_n unto_o the_o antecedent_n how_o our_o saviour_n speak_v mat._n 18_o &_o seq_n of_o such_o default_n as_o whereby_o other_o man_n either_o by_o erroneous_a doctrine_n or_o vicious_a conversation_n be_v offend_v or_o hinder_v from_o their_o proceed_n either_o in_o godliness_n or_o good_a manner_n now_o saint_n paul_n in_o all_o the_o place_n by_o you_o quote_v speak_v of_o not_o offend_v in_o matter_n and_o thing_n in_o their_o own_o nature_n indifferent_a neither_o prohibit_v by_o god_n in_o his_o word_n nor_o by_o any_o lawful_a ordinance_n of_o man_n he_o that_o open_o any_o thing_n either_o do_v or_o say_v forbid_v of_o god_n both_o sin_v against_o god_n &_o give_v offence_n to_o man_n and_o may_v expect_v without_o repentance_n a_o fearful_a and_o double_a punishment_n both_o for_o his_o fact_n which_o be_v ill_a &_o for_o the_o example_n he_o thereby_o give_v which_o be_v worse_o again_o he_o that_o in_o thing_n indifferent_a and_o at_o man_n liberty_n to_o do_v or_o leave_v undo_v have_v not_o a_o tender_a care_n of_o weak_a christian_n in_o his_o do_v show_v that_o there_o be_v not_o that_o charity_n in_o he_o nor_o regard_n of_o his_o brethren_n which_o god_n require_v but_o though_o god_n do_v not_o yet_o if_o his_o deputy_n the_o god_n terrestrial_a do_v enjoin_v any_o thing_n to_o be_v do_v not_o opposite_a to_o god_n word_n and_o tend_v unto_o concord_n among_o man_n order_n and_o comeliness_n and_o we_o will_v not_o obey_v nor_o fulfil_v their_o direction_n for_o offend_v some_o person_n pretend_v themselves_o to_o be_v weak_a then_o be_v we_o so_o far_o from_o do_v well_o as_o we_o do_v sin_n both_o against_o god_n &_o man_n in_o not_o fulfil_v their_o commandment_n if_o therefore_o charity_n by_o the_o text_n of_o saint_n paul_n bind_v we_o in_o thing_n uncommand_v or_o not_o forbid_v to_o respect_v the_o weak_a much_o more_o piety_n and_o duty_n towards_o our_o governor_n shall_v incite_v we_o to_o do_v the_o thing_n enjoin_v by_o just_a law_n disobedience_n to_o the_o lawful_a ordinance_n of_o godly_a governor_n be_v not_o only_o scandalous_a for_o the_o present_a but_o may_v prove_v very_o dangerous_a in_o the_o consequent_a wherefore_o a_o wise_a man_n shall_v not_o regard_v these_o lesser_a scandal_n of_o little_a &_o weak_a one_o in_o comparison_n of_o the_o inconvenience_n &_o great_a offence_n that_o arise_v &_o may_v follow_v through_o the_o manifest_a contempt_n of_o law_n establish_v and_o in_o case_n such_o as_o this_o kneel_v be_v wherein_o we_o can_v choose_v but_o offend_v either_o by_o do_v or_o not_o do_v that_o which_o be_v command_v better_o be_v it_o to_o offend_v the_o less_o than_o the_o great_a a_o few_o private_a person_n than_o a_o whole_a state_n and_o better_a bare_o to_o offend_v then_o to_o offend_v and_o sin_v too_o by_o fact_n and_o example_n as_o by_o wilful_a and_o open_a disobedience_n we_o do_v in_o this_o point_n touch_v kneel_v i_o know_v no_o weak_a one_o that_o just_o may_v be_v offend_v and_o if_o there_o be_v they_o be_v not_o much_o to_o be_v regard_v consider_v the_o long_a and_o constant_a preach_v of_o the_o truth_n in_o this_o land_n touch_v these_o and_o the_o like_a point_n in_o controversy_n it_o be_v a_o notable_a say_n of_o zanchius_n and_o approve_v by_o all_o learned_a and_o judicious_a divine_n that_o for_o a_o time_n some_o thing_n be_v to_o be_v yield_v unto_o these_o weak_a one_o which_o you_o speak_v of_o even_o till_o the_o truth_n may_v be_v teach_v they_o but_o after_o that_o the_o truth_n about_o these_o matter_n in_o question_n and_o the_o like_a have_v be_v set_v forth_o and_o lay_v open_a so_o as_o nothing_o can_v just_o be_v object_v against_o the_o same_o and_o yet_o purposely_o they_o will_v abide_v doubtful_a and_o unresolued_a then_o be_v not_o their_o infirmity_n any_o long_o either_o by_o simulation_n or_o dissimulation_n to_o be_v nourish_v est_fw-la enim_fw-la pertinacia_fw-la potiùs_fw-la quam_fw-la infirmitas_fw-la for_o it_o be_v rather_o to_o be_v count_v frowardness_n then_o weakness_n so_o zanchius_n 493._o s._n as_o there_o have_v be_v so_o there_o be_v and_o will_v be_v always_o weak_a one_o in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n both_o because_o it_o be_v god_n blessing_n which_o he_o bestow_v when_o and_o where_o he_o list_v that_o make_v strong_a and_o for_o that_o there_o be_v always_o some_o new_a bear_v babe_n succeed_v one_o another_o r._n weak_a or_o strong_a simple_a or_o wise_a young_a or_o old_a whosoever_o all_o must_v yield_v obedience_n to_o the_o order_n of_o that_o church_n whereof_o they_o be_v member_n in_o all_o such_o matter_n as_o be_v indifferent_a and_o not_o repugnant_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n s._n kneel_v in_o the_o act_n of_o receive_v be_v not_o yet_o prove_v to_o be_v a_o thing_n indifferent_a r._n i_o think_v yourself_o will_v not_o say_v that_o kneel_v in_o it_o own_o nature_n be_v either_o good_a or_o evil_a then_o must_v it_o needs_o be_v indifferent_a even_o as_o sit_v be_v ista_fw-la per_fw-la se_fw-la non_fw-la sunt_fw-la idolatrica_n speak_v among_o other_o thing_n of_o this_o kneel_v now_o in_o question_n these_o be_v not_o thing_n of_o themselves_o idolatrous_a say_v beza_n 12._o therefore_o indifferent_a s._n in_o thing_n indifferent_a those_o in_o authority_n must_v limit_v their_o precept_n by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n which_o will_v that_o the_o weak_a be_v not_o offend_v by_o any_o brother_n whatsoever_o r._n authority_n in_o make_v law_n must_v respect_v always_o the_o common_a and_o public_a good_a not_o what_o will_v please_v this_o or_o that_o man_n if_o the_o church_n shall_v stay_v from_o make_v of_o constitution_n till_o she_o can_v be_v assure_v that_o all_o her_o child_n will_v be_v please_v with_o her_o do_n hardly_o if_o ever_o shall_v she_o make_v any_o law_n and_o so_o will_v brawl_n and_o disorder_n without_o end_n or_o number_n increase_v &_o abound_v and_o have_v once_o make_v they_o to_o abrogate_v or_o not_o to_o execute_v they_o for_o fear_n of_o displease_v the_o weak_a what_o be_v it_o but_o either_o childish_a levity_n or_o ridiculous_a lenity_n the_o five_o objection_n s_o it_o strengthen_v the_o superstitious_a and_o idolatrous_a papist_n in_o their_o bread-worship_n ergo._fw-la 1_o cor._n 10._o 32._o r._n the_o papist_n they_o term_v the_o table_n of_o the_o lord_n profane_a and_o detestable_a and_o deem_v of_o our_o communion_n as_o of_o idolatrous_a and_o sacrilegious_a superstition_n 31._o they_o think_v it_o better_a to_o eat_v ratsbane_n then_o to_o participate_v of_o our_o bread_n and_o to_o drink_v dragon_n gall_n and_o viper_n blood_n than_o our_o wine_n this_o they_o termesacrilegious_a that_o poison_v trogny_n when_o they_o take_v offence_n at_o the_o very_a substance_n be_v they_o strengthen_v at_o the_o accident_n when_o they_o abhor_v the_o matter_n take_v they_o comfort_v at_o our_o form_n and_o manner_n of_o receive_v the_o same_o and_o be_v they_o strengthen_v thereby_o in_o their_o bread-worship_n assure_v yourself_o it_o be_v all_o one_o to_o the_o papist_n whether_o we_o kneel_v or_o sit_v or_o walk_v or_o amble_v the_o whole_a action_n or_o ministration_n thereof_o whatsoever_o it_o be_v be_v to_o they_o a_o like_a vile_a and_o abominable_a you_o can_v prove_v our_o kneel_v in_o the_o receive_n the_o supper_n of_o the_o lord_n to_o be_v a_o strengthen_n of_o the_o papist_n in_o their_o bread-worship_n but_o our_o not_o kneel_v do_v strengthen_v the_o licentious_a and_o lawless_a brownist_n in_o their_o irreligious_a contemn_v of_o our_o communion_n s._n that_o kneel_v do_v strengthen_v the_o papist_n in_o their_o bread-worship_n may_v be_v prove_v both_o by_o reason_n and_o experience_n r._n by_o reason_n how_o s._n for_o that_o superstition_n and_o idolatry_n be_v plant_v in_o our_o nature_n as_o a_o most_o fertile_a soil_n will_v not_o be_v destroy_v if_o there_o be_v leave_v behind_o so_o much_o as_o a_o string_n thereof_o r._n you_o can_v think_v of_o sure_o i_o be_o you_o can_v name_v a_o church_n wherein_o there_o be_v not_o if_o not_o some_o branch_n yet_o some_o sprig_n or_o at_o least_o string_n of_o superstition_n and_o idolatry_n will_v those_o string_n
to_o be_v receive_v as_o the_o lord_n supper_n on_o our_o part_n nor_o any_o part_n of_o the_o same_o supper_n to_o be_v perform_v with_o like_a ceremony_n of_o zeal_n and_o devotion_n as_o the_o very_a take_n and_o receive_v the_o bread_n and_o wine_n neither_o can_v we_o so_o express_v and_o testify_v the_o same_o reverence_n as_o by_o kneel_v yourself_o afore_o say_v than_o which_o you_o never_o speak_v true_a word_n how_o the_o most_o solemn_a sign_n of_o reverence_n be_v kneel_v the_o sacrament_n be_v call_v you_o say_v the_o communion_n be_v 26._o it_o so_o it_o be_v likewise_o call_v the_o new_a testament_n and_o of_o the_o father_n the_o sacrament_n eucharistical_a or_o of_o thanksgiving_n and_o can_v we_o better_o manifest_v our_o thankful_a heart_n unto_o our_o heavenly_a father_n then_o on_o bend_a knee_n and_o can_v there_o be_v no_o communion_n even_o at_o the_o communion_n if_o we_o kneel_v do_v the_o external_a either_o kneel_v sit_v or_o stand_v further_o or_o hinder_v our_o communion_n between_o christ_n and_o his_o church_n these_o thing_n du_o consider_v we_o ought_v not_o to_o imagine_v but_o that_o christ_n aswell_o be_v honour_v and_o better_o by_o kneel_v in_o the_o act_n of_o receive_v then_o by_o any_o other_o site_n or_o gesture_n of_o body_n whatsoever_o schis_n that_o can_v be_v see_v it_o swerve_v not_o only_o from_o his_o example_n but_o also_o from_o the_o practice_n of_o all_o reform_a church_n arg._n except_o in_o england_n which_o the_o papist_n themselves_o call_v puritano-papisticall_a by_o retain_v this_o and_o other_o popish_a corruption_n pro._n the_o swerve_v from_o the_o example_n of_o christ_n be_v no_o strong_a and_o true_a argument_n that_o we_o dishonour_v god_n in_o so_o do_v for_o if_o that_o be_v true_a no_o curch_n shall_v be_v pure_a from_o dishonour_v god_n you_o can_v name_v a_o church_n or_o company_n of_o christian_n in_o the_o whole_a world_n which_o in_o the_o minister_a and_o receive_v the_o supper_n of_o the_o lord_n vary_v not_o from_o christ_n his_o example_n and_o that_o manifold_o which_o yet_o in_o their_o ministration_n do_v honour_n god_n if_o england_n herein_o do_v swerve_v from_o all_o reform_a church_n will_v you_o therefore_o conclude_v that_o the_o church_n of_o england_n only_o do_v dishonour_n god_n we_o condemn_v not_o other_o church_n for_o their_o not_o kneel_v neither_o do_v any_o church_n nor_o shall_v you_o schismatic_n condemn_v we_o for_o our_o kneel_v and_o yet_o false_a be_v it_o that_o we_o christian_n in_o england_n only_o ●_o when_o we_o communicate_v do_v kneel_v for_o all_o the_o church_n in_o basill_n saxony_n denmark_n and_o many_o in_o germany_n by_o the_o order_n of_o their_o several_a church_n at_o the_o communion_n as_o well_o as_o we_o in_o england_n do_v kneel_v either_o therefore_o those_o church_n be_v not_o in_o the_o number_n of_o church_n reform_v in_o your_o judgement_n or_o they_o dishonour_v god_n by_o their_o say_a kneel_v so_o well_o as_o we_o the_o former_a of_o which_o you_o will_v not_o i_o think_v say_v and_o if_o you_o shall_v all_o god_n faithful_a servant_n throughout_o the_o world_n will_v condemn_v you_o for_o your_o heady_a and_o uncharitable_a judgement_n the_o latter_a you_o shall_v not_o without_o blush_v affirm_v and_o we_o be_v so_o far_o from_o imagine_v that_o thereby_o we_o dishonour_v god_n as_o we_o be_v of_o mind_n that_o god_n be_v by_o no_o external_a site_n or_o gesture_n of_o body_n at_o the_o communion_n so_o honour_v as_o by_o kneel_v what_o the_o papist_n think_v of_o and_o term_v the_o church_n of_o england_n we_o be_v not_o ignorant_a neither_o do_v regard_n but_o how_o popish_a they_o think_v our_o kneel_v at_o the_o holy_a 103._o communion_n to_o be_v judge_v by_o their_o word_n express_v their_o thought_n of_o the_o holy_a supper_n which_o they_o term_v a_o peevish_a supper_n fit_a for_o pagan_n than_o christian_n more_o meet_a for_o dog_n than_o man_n proceed_v direct_o from_o the_o devil_n can_v any_o man_n think_v our_o kneel_v to_o be_v a_o popish_a corruption_n either_o hear_v these_o thing_n or_o read_v they_o either_o in_o popish_a write_n or_o true_o cite_v out_o of_o popish_a book_n they_o abhor_v our_o bread_n and_o wine_n as_o schismatical_a as_o heretical_a as_o lead_v the_o high_a way_n to_o god_n wrath_n and_o indignation_n 242._o to_o hell_n &_o damnation_n it_o be_v no_o popish_a corruption_n which_o they_o so_o abhor_v much_o less_o abhor_v they_o our_o kneel_v as_o popish_a yea_o they_o abhor_v it_o because_o it_o be_v not_o popish_a they_o be_v simple_a and_o very_a stranger_n from_o the_o papist_n opinion_n of_o our_o church_n and_o her_o ceremony_n which_o so_o think_v and_o speak_v schis_n such_o kneel_v may_v be_v a_o argument_n especial_o to_o a_o papist_n not_o understand_v our_o tongue_n that_o we_o have_v communion_n with_o antichrist_n and_o his_o synagogue_n at_o least_o in_o the_o idolatry_n of_o bread-worship_n which_o our_o failng_n or_o carelessness_n to_o avow_v our_o communion_n with_o christ_n and_o his_o church_n and_o not_o abhor_v all_o communion_n with_o antichrist_n and_o his_o synagogue_n can_v be_v without_o grievous_a sin_n pro._n if_o what_o last_o i_o say_v be_v true_a as_o no_o right_a papist_n whether_o he_o understand_v our_o tongue_n or_o not_o can_v be_v doubtful_a of_o our_o kneel_v can_v possible_o be_v any_o argument_n of_o communion_n with_o antichrist_n and_o his_o synagogue_n in_o idolatry_n beside_o what_o papist_n be_v there_o but_o know_v that_o the_o bread_n &_o wine_n at_o the_o altar_n once_o consecrate_v by_o their_o doctrine_n be_v 6._o transubstantiate_v forthwith_o into_o the_o very_a body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n and_o be_v so_o transubstantiate_v by_o and_o by_o as_o the_o only_o beget_v son_n of_o god_n both_o of_o priest_n and_o people_n under_o the_o pain_n of_o the_o pope_n his_o curse_n with_o divine_a honour_n and_o worship_n to_o be_v adore_v to_o have_v these_o thought_n and_o to_o exhibit_v this_o adoration_n unto_o the_o element_n this_o be_v to_o communicate_v with_o antichrist_n and_o his_o synagogue_n but_o our_o reverend_a and_o humble_a kneel_v at_o the_o take_n and_o receive_v the_o bread_n &_o wine_n in_o a_o thankful_a remembrance_n of_o the_o death_n of_o christ_n and_o of_o all_o the_o benefit_n we_o be_v partaker_n of_o by_o his_o passion_n &_o that_o without_o althought_n or_o show_v of_o adore_v the_o bread_n and_o wine_n this_o be_v no_o communicate_v with_o antichrist_n &_o his_o synagogue_n have_v these_o cogitation_n though_o we_o kneel_v we_o have_v communion_n with_o christ_n and_o his_o church_n and_o have_v not_o these_o thought_n we_o have_v no_o communion_n at_o all_o with_o his_o church_n though_o we_o sit_v and_o kneel_v not_o as_o therefore_o it_o be_v not_o the_o kneel_v but_o the_o impious_a conceit_n wherewith_o their_o heart_n be_v possess_v and_o replenish_v when_o they_o approach_v to_o the_o sacrament_n that_o make_v the_o papist_n to_o be_v idolater_n so_o neither_o do_v our_o kneel_v exclude_v we_o from_o all_o communion_n with_o christ_n and_o his_o church_n nor_o your_o sit_v that_o join_v you_o in_o fellowship_n with_o the_o same_o as_o gross_a idolatry_n may_v you_o commit_v in_o not_o kneel_v as_o any_o person_n ever_o do_v or_o as_o the_o papist_n now_o do_v in_o kneel_v but_o we_o charge_v not_o you_o as_o you_o do_v we_o yet_o very_o uncharitable_o who_o part_n be_v rather_o to_o conceive_v better_o of_o they_o who_o doctrine_n in_o the_o most_o principal_a point_n of_o religion_n about_o the_o sacrament_n especial_o be_v one_o and_o the_o same_o with_o you_o light_n be_v not_o more_o contrary_n to_o darkness_n nor_o heaven_n to_o hell_n then_o what_o both_o you_o which_o sit_v and_o we_o which_o kneel_v do_v hold_v therein_o be_v opposite_a and_o contrary_a to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o synagogue_n of_o rome_n wherefore_o as_o we_o say_v not_o that_o you_o differ_v from_o we_o that_o kneel_v have_v no_o communion_n with_o christ_n and_o his_o church_n because_o you_o sit_v and_o do_v commit_v a_o grievous_a sin_n do_v you_o not_o offend_v against_o public_a order_n for_o that_o with_o we_o you_o kneel_v not_o no_o more_o shall_v you_o have_v so_o much_o as_o a_o imagination_n that_o we_o have_v communion_n with_o antichrist_n and_o his_o synagogue_n because_o we_o kneel_v and_o do_v commit_v a_o grievous_a sin_n for_o that_o with_o you_o we_o sit_v not_o when_o we_o do_v receive_v especial_o see_v god_n do_v not_o forbid_v and_o christian_a authority_n command_v we_o to_o kneel_v sittng_a &_o kneel_v be_v but_o outward_a ceremony_n nothing_o to_o the_o substance_n of_o religion_n concern_v the_o true_a communion_n with_o christ_n and_o his_o church_n at_o all_o and_o of_o themselves_o indifferent_a do_v not_o the_o
of_o bread_n and_o wine_n which_o need_v not_o be_v much_o pro._n whatsoever_o you_o shall_v say_v it_o be_v but_o too_o much_o in_o a_o needless_a contention_n you_o have_v be_v tell_v that_o we_o kneel_v not_o neither_o be_v to_o kneel_v in_o regard_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n schis_n very_o no_o sound_a protestant_n of_o any_o knowledge_n will_v affirm_v it_o but_o rather_o present_o consider_v that_o if_o kneel_v be_v institute_v for_o reverence_n in_o regard_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n it_o must_v be_v either_o because_o they_o represent_v the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n though_o remain_v bread_n and_o wine_n touch_v their_o substance_n and_o then_o for_o like_a reason_n we_o may_v worship_v the_o crucifix_n and_o image_n of_o god_n as_o the_o papist_n do_v pro._n true_a schis_n or_o this_o reverence_n be_v do_v to_o bread_n and_o wine_n because_o christ_n be_v real_o bodily_a and_o local_o though_o invisiblie_o present_a in_o they_o either_o by_o transubstantiation_n according_a to_o the_o mind_n of_o the_o papist_n or_o of_o consubstantiation_n according_a to_o the_o heresy_n of_o the_o lutheran_n pro._n the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o member_n of_o the_o same_o have_v in_o equal_a detestation_n both_o of_o the_o transubstantion_n of_o the_o papist_n and_o the_o consubstantiation_n of_o the_o lutheran_n schis_n then_o it_o must_v needs_o follow_v that_o if_o we_o abjure_v these_o heresy_n of_o papist_n and_o lutheran_n we_o must_v also_o abhor_v idolatrous_a and_o superstitious_a kneel_v their_o daughter_n and_o nurse_n pro._n we_o abhor_v idolatrous_a and_o superstitious_a kneel_v from_o our_o heart_n but_o not_o kneel_v our_o kneel_v be_v neither_o superstitious_a nor_o idolatrous_a schis_n we_o never_o hear_v of_o kneel_v before_o transubstantiation_n be_v hatch_v in_o the_o sygnagove_n of_o antichrist_n so_o that_o 110._o immediate_o after_o pope_n innocent_a decree_v transubstantiation_n pope_n honorius_n decree_v kneel_v therefore_o if_o harding_n do_v grant_v that_o it_o be_v not_o well_o to_o kneel_v but_o in_o regard_n of_o a_o real_a and_o bodily_a presence_n a_o sound_n protestant_n shall_v infer_v but_o i_o detest_v your_o real_a presence_n therefore_o jabhorre_v your_o idolatrous_a kneel_v pro._n we_o be_v to_o regard_v not_o so_o much_o who_o ordain_v kneel_v at_o the_o first_o or_o when_o it_o be_v establish_v and_o why_o as_o who_o command_v it_o now_o and_o the_o use_n thereof_o which_o we_o take_v to_o be_v very_o good_a profitable_a and_o necessary_a what_o though_o harding_n do_v say_v that_o we_o do_v not_o well_o to_o kneel_v but_o in_o regard_n of_o a_o real_a and_o bodily_a presence_n do_v we_o therefore_o ill_o which_o kneel_v have_v no_o such_o regard_n and_o though_o you_o tell_v we_o a_o thousand_o time_n we_o do_v ill_o in_o kneel_v because_o the_o papist_n in_o kneel_v do_v adore_v the_o the_o bread_n and_o wine_n do_v we_o therefore_o ill_o which_o abhor_v the_o papist_n both_o doctrine_n and_o adoration_n therefore_o whereas_o harding_n do_v grant_v that_o it_o be_v not_o well_o to_o kneel_v but_o in_o regard_n of_o a_o real_a and_o bodily_a presence_n and_o you_o schismatic_n do_v say_v and_o maintain_v that_o we_o do_v ill_a to_o kneel_v not_o because_o we_o do_v but_o for_o that_o the_o papist_n in_o regard_n of_o a_o certain_a persuasion_n they_o have_v of_o a_o bodily_a and_o real_a presence_n do_v adore_v bread_n and_o wine_n we_o hold_v both_o they_o and_o you_o to_o be_v much_o out_o of_o the_o way_n they_o for_o condemn_v our_o kneel_v because_o it_o be_v not_o in_o adoration_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n you_o for_o condemn_v our_o say_a kneel_v which_o be_v without_o all_o regard_n of_o such_o adoration_n sect_n 12._o whether_o kneel_v at_o the_o holy_a communion_n be_v a_o show_n of_o evil_a and_o the_o great_a scandal_n schis_n we_o be_v to_o abhor_v kneel_v pro._n what_o all_o kneel_v schis_n i_o mean_v kneel_v at_o the_o lord_n supper_n as_o in_o my_o proposition_n be_v express_v pro._n why_o so_o for_o hitherto_o have_v you_o give_v no_o sufficient_a and_o satisfy_a reason_n why_o we_o shall_v abhor_v it_o schis_n because_o we_o abhor_v the_o heresy_n of_o worship_v of_o image_n transubstantiation_n and_o consubstantiation_n pro._n though_o the_o heresy_n of_o worship_a image_n transubstantiation_n and_o consubstantiation_n be_v detestable_a yet_o be_v not_o our_o kneel_v to_o be_v abhor_v unless_o you_o can_v prove_v we_o guilty_a of_o those_o heresy_n or_o the_o like_a which_o we_o abhor_v no_o man_n more_o our_o gesture_n of_o kneel_v can_v be_v ill_o when_o our_o doctrine_n be_v good_a as_o the_o same_o gesture_n can_v not_o be_v good_a if_o our_o doctrine_n be_v unsound_a and_o savour_v of_o those_o heresy_n which_o you_o can_v true_o say_v it_o do_v you_o have_v afore_o be_v tell_v that_o the_o gesture_n of_o itself_o be_v neither_o good_a nor_o evil_a but_o to_o be_v esteem_v according_a to_o the_o doctrine_n which_o they_o profess_v and_o hold_v that_o use_v it_o a_o site_n as_o we_o use_v it_o in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n very_o comely_a and_o commendable_a a_o gesture_n as_o papist_n abuse_v it_o most_o horrable_a schis_n not_o in_o respect_n of_o those_o heresy_n only_o but_o also_o because_o it_o be_v the_o show_n of_o the_o great_a evil_n that_o ever_o be_v it_o be_v to_o 22._o be_v abhor_v pro._n those_o evil_n will_v be_v show_v schis_n it_o carry_v a_o show_n first_o of_o idolatry_n in_o worship_v a_o god_n make_v of_o a_o piece_n of_o bread_n pro._n artolatrie_n be_v the_o evil_a of_o the_o romish_a church_n there_o be_v neither_o that_o evil_a nor_o a_o show_n thereof_o among_o we_o who_o acknowledge_v no_o breaden_a god_n much_o less_o give_v any_o show_n of_o adoration_n unto_o bread_n and_o wine_n the_o show_n of_o such_o evil_n we_o condemn_v even_o as_o the_o evil_n itself_o we_o abhor_v you_o have_v be_v answer_v again_o and_o again_o that_o our_o adoration_n in_o kneel_v be_v to_o our_o god_n in_o heaven_n not_o to_o his_o creature_n on_o earth_n nor_o to_o christ_n in_o they_o or_o transubstantiate_v into_o they_o which_o because_o we_o do_v not_o the_o papist_n afore_o mention_v viz._n harding_n will_v not_o have_v we_o to_o kneel_v because_o we_o adore_v not_o what_o they_o do_v which_o do_v you_o conscionable_o remember_v will_v remove_v this_o uncharitable_a suspicion_n out_o of_o your_o head_n that_o our_o kneel_v carry_v a_o show_n of_o artolatrie_n gross_a idolatry_n this_o therefore_o be_v but_o a_o unjust_a surmise_n of_o you_o what_o be_v the_o next_o evil_a even_o the_o great_a evil_n that_o it_o bear_v a_o show_n of_o s._n even_o our_o communion_n with_o antichrist_n rather_o than_o with_o christ._n p._n to_o communicate_v with_o antichrist_n be_v not_o reverent_o and_o religious_o to_o kneel_v at_o the_o holy_a communion_n but_o to_o communicate_v in_o the_o doctrine_n and_o superstitious_a worship_n 1588._o profess_v and_o use_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n herein_o we_o communicate_v not_o with_o the_o papist_n nor_o they_o with_o us._n they_o say_v that_o our_o protestant_n be_v amalakite_n and_o heretic_n 22._o our_o doctrine_n heresy_n and_o that_o they_o which_o so_o call_v it_o and_o that_o in_o the_o worst_a part_n that_o can_v be_v and_o in_o the_o worst_a sense_n that_o ever_o be_v do_v right_o and_o just_o and_o that_o we_o 454._o be_v paganis_fw-la &_o turcis_n deteriores_fw-la worser_o than_o turk_n and_o pagan_n we_o say_v of_o they_o that_o their_o religion_n be_v rebellion_n their_o faith_n be_v faction_n their_o doctrine_n false_a and_o erroneous_a their_o serve_v of_o god_n superstitious_a and_o idolatrous_a all_o their_o novemb._n doctrine_n and_o worship_n blasphemous_a and_o derogatory_n in_o a_o high_a degree_n to_o the_o glory_n of_o god_n hence_o have_v they_o separate_v themselves_o from_o we_o and_o our_o church_n by_o open_a recusancie_n and_o we_o have_v depart_v from_o they_o and_o their_o office_n which_o they_o call_v apostasy_n and_o we_o schismatickes_n for_o so_o do_v these_o thing_n be_v they_o due_o consider_v as_o they_o ought_v serious_o i_o think_v it_o shall_v be_v far_o from_o the_o thought_n of_o any_o man_n profess_v the_o same_o doctrine_n with_o we_o and_o detest_a the_o religion_n of_o the_o synagogue_n of_o rome_n to_o imagine_v that_o we_o in_o kneel_v do_v communicate_v with_o that_o whorish_a church_n who_o be_v not_o so_o sever_v in_o doctrine_n and_o worship_n as_o for_o our_o worship_v of_o god_n and_o doctrine_n without_o all_o hope_n of_o atonement_n or_o reconciliation_n separate_v in_o body_n but_o in_o affection_n much_o more_o this_o notwithstanding_o be_v their_o doctrine_n and_o worship_n as_o good_a as_o the_o sign_n of_o their_o devotion_n commendable_a who_o we_o do_v communicate_v withal_o in_o a_o dumb_a ceremony_n and_o in_o different_a if_o to_o
thus_o urge_v by_o authority_n if_o the_o sacramental_a sign_v of_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n be_v no_o more_o to_o be_v reverence_v then_o water_n apply_v in_o baptise_v child_n see_v that_o be_v also_o a_o sanctify_a sign_n of_o christ_n his_o blood_n that_o wash_v away_o our_o sin_n and_o iniquity_n p._n if_o they_o will_v by_o you_o be_v advise_v the_o simple_a and_o superstitious_a shall_v so_o argue_v and_o thereby_o fall_v into_o a_o loathe_n of_o our_o manner_n of_o receive_v the_o sacrament_n but_o you_o and_o they_o must_v be_v answer_v how_o the_o church_n of_o england_n have_v the_o two_o sacrament_n in_o equal_a price_n and_o estimation_n conceive_v high_o and_o religious_o of_o they_o both_o but_o ascribe_v divine_a adoration_n yea_o none_o adoration_n at_o all_o either_o unto_o the_o bread_n &_o wine_n of_o the_o one_o or_o unto_o the_o water_n of_o the_o other_o albeit_o the_o water_n signify_v christ_n his_o blood_n that_o wash_v away_o our_o sin_n &_o iniquity_n &_o the_o bread_n &_o wine_n the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n shed_v and_o give_v for_o man_n redemption_n but_o for-so-much_a as_o we_o be_v baptize_v infant_n when_o we_o know_v not_o what_o we_o do_v and_o be_v man_n old_a or_o young_a when_o we_o partake_v of_o the_o other_o also_o that_o the_o very_a bread_n and_o wine_n exhibit_v to_o these_o sense_n and_o hand_n of_o all_o communicant_n do_v sacramental_o represent_v the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o our_o lord_n the_o minister_n delivery_n of_o they_o god_n very_o offer_v his_o favour_n in_o christ_n unto_o we_o the_o bread_n break_v his_o body_n dead_a the_o wine_n his_o blood_n shed_v upon_o the_o cross_n last_o the_o distribute_v both_o of_o the_o wine_n and_o bread_n christ_n his_o benefit_n and_o god_n blessing_n impart_v and_o communicate_v unto_o all_o communicant_n whereof_o they_o be_v remember_v so_o oft_o as_o they_o receive_v in_o all_o place_n of_o the_o world_n and_o to_o the_o world_n end_n what_o christian_n see_v and_o serious_o consider_v these_o and_o the_o like_a thing_n but_o will_v be_v excite_v with_o all_o due_a submission_n and_o religious_a reverence_n to_o come_v unto_o the_o participation_n and_o receive_v of_o such_o celestial_a favour_n not_o because_o it_o be_v either_o unlawful_a or_o undecent_a with_o like_a reverence_n to_o receive_v the_o other_o sacrament_n but_o for_o that_o partly_o our_o tenderness_n be_v such_o because_o of_o our_o year_n that_o we_o can_v and_o partly_o the_o necessity_n be_v not_o so_o urgent_a that_o we_o need_v to_o kneel_v but_o doubtless_o be_v we_o of_o good_a year_n and_o do_v know_v what_o we_o go_v about_o when_o we_o be_v to_o be_v baptize_v as_o we_o know_v what_o we_o do_v such_o be_v my_o persuasion_n and_o aught_o to_o be_v of_o we_o all_o of_o all_o person_n communicate_v at_o the_o supper_n when_o we_o come_v to_o the_o table_n of_o the_o lord_n doubtless_o the_o lord_n will_v not_o be_v displease_v do_v we_o kneel_v at_o baptism_n than_o our_o assure_a persuasion_n be_v that_o he_o be_v not_o offend_v with_o our_o kneel_v at_o his_o supper_n therefore_o whereas_o all_o worthy_a communicant_n even_o in_o duty_n and_o conscience_n be_v bind_v with_o this_o sign_n of_o reverence_n to_o receive_v these_o holy_a and_o heavenly_a mystery_n and_o yet_o many_o person_n in_o one_o respect_n or_o other_o will_v not_o bend_v nor_o bow_v their_o knee_n but_o in_o no_o case_n kneel_v if_o authority_n do_v force_v such_o stubborn_a and_o wilful_a person_n to_o do_v that_o necessary_o which_o of_o themselves_o voluntary_o they_o shall_v perform_v neither_o do_v authority_n transgress_v their_o bound_n nor_o do_v they_o sin_n that_o obey_v their_o command_n and_o so_o let_v this_o satisfy_v those_o simple_a and_o superstitious_a person_n and_o be_v a_o answer_n unto_o you_o the_o conclusion_n s._n to_o conclude_v if_o kneel_v in_o the_o very_a act_n of_o take_v eat_a and_o drink_v the_o sacramental_a bread_n and_o wine_n in_o the_o holy_a communion_n be_v a_o institution_n of_o man_n p._n it_o be_v no_o mere_a institution_n of_o man_n s._n if_o it_o be_v the_o take_n of_o god_n name_n in_o vain_a when_o it_o be_v without_o all_o respect_n of_o reverence_n p._n it_o be_v do_v with_o all_o respect_n of_o reverence_n in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n s._n if_o god_n be_v not_o honour_v thereby_o except_o it_o be_v according_a to_o his_o will_n p._n it_o be_v according_a to_o his_o will_n and_o so_o god_n thereby_o be_v honour_v s._n if_o it_o swerve_v from_o the_o example_n of_o christ_n his_o sit_v and_o therefore_o deserve_v no_o praise_n p._n though_o it_o swerve_v from_o the_o example_n yet_o be_v it_o against_o no_o commandment_n of_o christ._n and_o therefore_o not_o to_o be_v condemn_v s._n if_o it_o be_v a_o provoke_a sin_n to_o reject_v the_o exemplary_a sit_v of_o christ_n whereby_o we_o show_v ourselves_o to_o be_v in_o the_o communion_n with_o christ_n and_o the_o reform_a church_n and_o to_o retain_v kneel_v which_o for_o bread-worship_n aught_o to_o be_v banish_v and_o whereby_o we_o seem_v to_o be_v in_o communion_n with_o antichrist_n and_o his_o synagogue_n p._n we_o reject_v not_o the_o exemplary_a sit_v of_o christ_n neither_o shall_v we_o sit_v have_v we_o by_o it_o the_o more_o fellowship_n with_o christ_n and_o his_o church_n reform_v who_o fellowship_n which_o without_o sit_v praise_v be_v god_n we_o do_v enjoy_v be_v in_o partake_v of_o spiritual_a grace_n in_o obey_v and_o do_v his_o precept_n and_o in_o profess_v of_o christian_a religion_n joint_o and_o with_o one_o heart_n and_o mind_n neither_o by_o our_o kneel_v have_v we_o either_o the_o less_o with_o christ_n &_o his_o true_a church_n or_o the_o more_o familiarity_n and_o communion_n with_o antichrist_n and_o his_o synagogue_n in_o which_o respect_n neither_o be_v kneel_v to_o be_v banish_v out_o of_o our_o church_n because_o of_o the_o papist_n bread-worship_n nor_o do_v the_o kneeler_n by_o kneel_v commit_v a_o provoke_a sin_n yea_o any_o sin_n at_o all_o s._n if_o it_o obscure_v that_o rejoice_a familiarity_n in_o and_o with_o christ_n which_o the_o lord_n supper_n signify_v p._n at_o the_o lord_n supper_n kneel_v obscure_v not_o but_o further_v our_o familiarity_n and_o joy_n with_o christ_n and_o christian_n s._n if_o the_o argument_n from_o christ_n his_o example_n be_v make_v the_o strong_a in_o that_o he_o sit_v of_o purpose_n p._n christ_n his_o purposely_o sit_v whatsoever_o it_o be_v make_v not_o our_o purposely_o kneel_v to_o be_v unlawful_a s._n if_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o choose_v a_o fit_a time_n than_o the_o evening_n can_v justify_v our_o reject_v christ_n his_o exemplary_a sit_v p._n by_o the_o same_o authority_n god_n people_n may_v leave_v the_o example_n of_o christ_n in_o sit_v if_o he_o do_v sit_v whereby_o they_o leave_v his_o example_n of_o minister_a the_o supper_n in_o the_o evening_n unless_o by_o some_o order_n and_o decree_n he_o have_v enjoin_v his_o example_n for_o our_o necessary_a imitation_n s._n if_o the_o bit_n of_o prayer_n join_v with_o the_o word_n of_o institution_n do_v make_v kneel_v the_o more_o sinful_a p._n every_o bit_n yea_o and_o every_o crumb_n of_o that_o prayer_n use_v with_o sound_a faith_n and_o devotion_n do_v make_v our_o kneel_v the_o more_o acceptable_a unto_o god_n s._n if_o kneel_v be_v not_o as_o indifferent_a as_o stand_v nor_o best_a beseem_v the_o holy_a communion_n and_o the_o king_n must_v appoint_v nothing_o but_o by_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o lord_n p._n it_o be_v as_o indifferent_a and_o more_o convenient_a than_o stand_v and_o in_o our_o judgement_n and_o persuasion_n best_o beseem_v the_o communion_n and_o appoint_v even_o by_o god_n himself_o by_o the_o hand_n of_o our_o lord_n the_o king_n s._n if_o we_o ought_v to_o abhor_v kneel_v as_o we_o abhor_v image_n transubstantiation_n and_o consubstantiation_n p._n kneel_v be_v a_o pure_a ceremony_n of_o our_o church_n void_a of_o all_o superstition_n and_o idolatry_n whatsoever_o and_o our_o kneeler_n the_o most_o sincere_a worshipper_n of_o god_n and_o neither_o themselves_o nor_o their_o kneel_v to_o be_v abhor_v s._n if_o to_o scandalize_v be_v greevouslie_o to_o sin_n and_o kneel_v be_v a_o show_n of_o the_o great_a evil_n and_o withal_o the_o great_a scandal_n p._n there_o be_v no_o scandal_n give_v by_o kneel_v neither_o be_v kneel_v evil_n nor_o show_v of_o evil_a much_o less_o of_o the_o great_a evil_n or_o the_o great_a scandal_n s._n if_o it_o be_v a_o beg_n of_o the_o question_n to_o affirm_v kneel_v to_o be_v indifferent_a and_o the_o king_n commandment_n so_o call_v both_o rather_o increase_v than_o lesson_n scandal_n by_o kneel_v p._n kneel_v have_v not_o as_o yet_o be_v show_v to_o be_v of_o itself_o unlawful_a