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A20000 Dialogicall discourses of spirits and divels declaring their proper essence, natures, dispositions, and operations, their possessions and dispossessions : with other the appendantes, peculiarly appertaining to those speciall points, verie conducent, and pertinent to the timely procuring of some Christian conformitie in iudgement, for the peaceable compounding of the late sprong controuersies concerning all such intricate and difficult doubts / by [brace] Iohn Deacon, Iohn Walker... Deacon, John, fl. 1585-1616.; Walker, John, preacher. 1601 (1601) STC 6439; ESTC S323 312,434 405

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essentiall transforming of Satan into an Angel of light Lycanthropus Conclude what you please yet will I at no hand be perswaded but that the diuell can essentially transforme himselfe into the verie substance of an Angell of light Orthodoxus Euen as readily I warrant you as the priest can transubstantiate bread and wine into the very naturall bodie and bloud of Christ. If you be able throughly to prooue this transformation of diuels you may pleasure the papists with an vnanswerable argument for their popish transubstantiations and surely they should therein be highly beholding vnto you But vntil your selfe and they do sensiblie demonstrate vnto vs how two substantiall formes may possiblie be inherent togither and at once in one and the selfesame subiect and that also without confusion of substances say what you can for your matters we will beleeue you alike In the meane time let vs heare some sounder reasons concerning this point or put an end to our speech Lycanthropus Whether the reasons be sound or vnsound it makes no great matter It hath beene taught for an infallible truth from age to age that diuels can transforme themselues essentially into what substance they please and therefore for my part I vnfeinedly beleeue and subscribe to the same Orthodoxus Antiquitie how gray-headed soeuer hath no authoritie at all to priviledge errour and therefore you are ouer rashlie to resolute in setling your faith vpon such an inueterate dottage Physiologus Maister Orthodoxus do rest you a while and let me argue this point a little Come on Lycanthropus you do beleeue you say that Diuels can transforme themselues into what substance they please what is your reason hereof Lycanthropus My reason is this They can forme bodies therefore also they can transforme bodies To denie them an absolute power herein were to yeeld lesse vnto diuels then we do vnto men For a Taylour we see he is able of a peece of cloth to forme a gowne and able also to transforme the same into either a cloake or a coate Physiologus You haue forgot I perceiue what was taught you of late Namely that the worke of creation is onely proper to God and beyond the power of diuel or angel and yet now againe you wil haue the diuel if not a creatour of substances yet an Artist at least very skilfull in forming and transforming of gownes and cloakes which I beleeue would trouble both him and the Tailour if they had neither cloath nor other stuffe to forme them vpon But goe to proue that the diuels are able essentially to forme or transforme true naturall bodies Lycanthropus I prooue it thus The diuel was able by the Egiptian sorcerours to transforme their rods into serpents and therefore he is much more able to do the same by himselfe Physiologus Forbearing a while to answere directly the very point of your argument I must tel you this by the way that through such an inconsiderate reasoning you dangerously make the diuel a very free agent in forming and transforming of bodies Howbeit letting these ouersights slip doe tel me whether those your supposed serpents made by the sorcerours were true serpents in deede or serpents onelie in outward appearance Philologus They were true serpents no doubt Physiologus If serpents without doubt as you say then were they such either necessarily or contingently Pneumatomachus Nay not contingently but necessarily such or no serpents at all Physiologus If necessarily serpents in deede then tel me whether they were such by a naturall or supernaturall necessity Lycanthropus What meane you by a naturall necessity Physiologus By a naturall necessity I do here vnderstand the necessary beginning or cause of motion and rest in euery such naturall thing as nature it selfe is especially inherent in by it selfe alone and not by accident So that this naturall necessity is you see some certeine secret power not perceiueable by sense but by vnderstanding alone yea and the same is so throughly instructed of God by a secret instinct as it is able of it selfe to supply an essentiall being with other naturall faculties to euery corporall substance whether element stone hearbe tree lyon horse egle woolhe man beast or any other like naturall essence Now then doe tel me whether they were true serpents in deed by such a naturall necessity Lycanthropus Yea euen by that selfe same naturall necessity Physiologus Then vndoubtedly they were such either by the orderly or the vnorderly course of nature Lycanthropus Such they were euen by an orderly course of nature Physiologus Then did they also consist vpon true and orderly beginnigs namely vpon true matter and forme Lycanthropus They consisted of true matter and forme I warrant you Physiologus Doe you warrant me A wise man would euen blush for shame to auouch such palpable and grose absurdities Know you not that the orderly course of nature in her ordinary producing of liuing creatures is onely and altogether by generation And dare you then thus boldly affirme that a sory twig or rod of a tree was such a true naturall matter as that from thence might possibly haue been produced some naturall serpent in any orderly course of nature Againe could any true liuely forme of a naturall serpent be possibly giuen to the twig of a tree by any possible power of either angel or diuel Indeed the diuel and those his Egyptian sorcerers if they had so much spare time at that present they might then I confesse haue cunningly carued or cut out from a peece of wood some lineament all fashion figure proportion or shape of serpents and very skilfully haue cast the same into a serpentine colour howbeit such a formed kinde of serpents both for matter and forme had onelie beene artificiall and accidentarie but neither might that matter nor forme of theirs haue truely beene said to be naturall Lycanthropus Let matter and forme be whatsoeuer it will true serpents I am certeine they were Physiologus How certeine soeuer you are they could not possiblie be true serpents indeed in any orderly course of nature as you haue hitherto heard For then also they must necessarilie haue had their true matter and forme verie certeine within themselues and the same also very absolute and constant by nature Euen as we see the selfesame matter and forme of a dogge an horse a bird a man or a serpent which was at the first creation the same continueth in an orderly course of nature certeine and constant now at this present to the end of the world But these your supposed serpents they had no such true matter and forme at all in themselues and therefore no true serpents indeed in any orderly course of nature Lycanthropus Then were they such in an vnorderly course of nature for true serpents I am sure they were Physiologus True serpents you saie you are sure they were and yet can you not possiblie shew how they should be such except as
perpetuity of satan his actuall possession you speake nothing at all to the purpose Exorcistes Sir howsoeuer I may seeme vnable to mannage the common sence which men giue of that place I perceiue no reason as yet of your owne exposition Orthodoxus Let vs therefore labour the clearing thereof by this folowing order First let vs carefully examine those places of scripture which both before and after the manifestation of Christ in the flesh do purposely entreate of his effectuall working power vpon satan The next let vs more exactly analyze that portion of scripture which we propounded euen now to prooue the final determination of satan his power of actuall possession And then lastly let vs endeuour to confirme our said exposition by the testimony of writers both old and new All this beeing fully effected the truth of the matter will breake foorth I doubt not like the Sun in his strength Lycanthropus A very excellent order I pray you proceed in the same Orthodoxus With very good will First therefore concerning those seuerall scriptures which purposely handle the effectuall working power of Christ before his manifestation in the flesh we haue to consider that the Lord God immediately after the fall of man did for the comfort of the godly and terrour of satan foretell to them both that the seed of the woman should bruse the serpents head In which place he precisely puts downe one speciall act to be actually effected by Christ vpon satan namely the actual subduing of his actual dominion vnderstood in that place by the serpents head and purposely refers the actuall accomplishment thereof to the future time saying thus The seed of the woman not doth or hath but rather shall bruse the serpents head That is in processe of time shall euen actually ouercome the said power of the diuel hauing also therein a more speciall relation to the very death of our sauiour Christ vnderstood in that place by the brusing of his heele Now then from the due consideration hereof I doe argue thus namely that euen as howsoeuer the diuell may be said to wage war with Christ and his members from time to time yet there was one special time predetermined of God wherein the said diuel was actually to bruse the heele of our sauiour and that vndoutedly was the very ti●e of Christ his suffering vpon the crosse whereupon the diuel accordingly did put into Iudas his hart to betray his maister so surely howsoeuer Christ and his members may be said to infringe effectually the diuel his tyrannicall power from time to time to the end of the world yet was there one speciall time foreappointed of God wherein Christ alone was actually to breake the serpents head and that vndoubtedly was the very selfesame time wherein Satan brused his heele I meane the verie time of Christs sufferings when he said it is finished Exorcistes Why doe you so exactly restraine the conquest of Christ ouer Satan vnto the onely time of his sufferings sith he was the lambe slaine from the beginning of the world Orthodoxus I restraine not the efficacie but the very act of Christs conquest to the onely time of his suffrings Moreouer although it be truely said that Christ was the Lambe slaine from the beginning of the world yet that must not be vnderstoode of anie actuall but of an effectuall sacrificing of Christ to so manie as in all ages and times doe apprehend the efficacie of his said sacrifice by a liuely faith which is the victorie whereby they ouercome the world If therefore you vnderstand the aforesaid place of an actuall sacrificing of Christ from the beginning to the end of the world then surely your speech is not onely to to absurd but withal it crosseth directly the holie Ghost elsewhere who telleth vs plainly that if an actuall sacrificing of Christ be there vnderstood then Christ must often haue suffred from the worlds foundation Besides that it doth quite ouerthrowe the dignitie of Christ his priesthood aboue the Leuitical priesthood which is there set foorth by many comparisons thus The Leuiticall high priest he sacrificed in a corruptible tabernacle but Christ in the tabernacle of his owne bodie He sacrificed with strange bloud but Christ with his owne bloud He entred into the sanctuary made with hands but Christ into heauen it self He appeared before the materiall Arke but Christ before God his father He euerie yeere once iterated his sacrifice whereas Christ offering himselfe but once for al abolished sinne altogither as wel of the former as of the ages to come Then after all this he renders a reason why Christ could actually but once be sacrificed namely because he could actually but once be crucified And in the end he cōfidently concludes that howsoeuer Christ was but once actually sacrificed yet the vertue and efficacie of his said sacrifice did and doth effectually extend it selfe to the sinnes which were before and to the sinnes which succeeded his sufferings So then notwithstanding whatsoeuer you obiect you may plainely perceiue that euen as albeit Christ his said sacrifice hath euer beene and euer shal be effectual from time to time yet there was one speciall time foreappointed of God wherein his said sacrifice was actually effected so surely that although the effectuall working power of Christ hath beene and is euer effectuall from time to time against the power of actuall possession yet there was vndoubtedly one speciall time wherein the saide power of actuall possession was by Christ actually annihilated and that was the verie time of Christ his manifestation in the flesh when as by the verie force of his suffrings he brake the serpents head Hereunto also the Euangelist Luke verie aptly accordeth saying When a strong armed man keepeth his house the things that he possesseth are in peace but when a stronger then he commeth vpon him and ouercommeth him he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted and deuideth the spoiles The Euangelist there doth allegorically depaint vnto vs the condition dominion and practise of satan For by the strong armed man he meaneth the diuell By his house he vnderstandeth generally the world and more particularly the parties actually possessed By peaceable possession the power and swaie of his tyrannicall dominion By the stronger he vnderstandeth Christ that victorious lyon of the tribe of Iudah By the binding of him the irrecouerable weakening of his power of obsession By the taking away of the armour wherein he trusted the vtter annihilating of his power of possession Lastly by deuiding the spoiles he meaneth the timely restauration of all poore possessed soules to the kingdome and seruice of Christ according to that which Christ saith now is the iudgement of this world Vnderstanding thereby the iudgement of discretion not the iudgement of damnation as if Christ should say thus Now is that selfesame time of the worlds reformation at hand wherein shall