dispute in the matter / becaus he had granted and substrybed vnto the reall presens Master cheyny desiered pacience of the honorable meÌ„ to heare him trusting that he shuld so open the matter that the veryte shuld appeare ê“testing furthermore / that he was no obstynate nor stubburne man / but wold be coÌ„formable to all reason M. cheyny And yff thei by theyr lernyng / which he acknowlegyd to be moch more than hys / could answer his reasons / that than he wold be rulyd by them and saye as they sayd / for he wold be no auctor of schisme nor hold any thyng coÌ„trary to the holy mother the church which is christis spowse D. Weston liked this well and coÌ„mended him highly / saing that he was a well lerned man / and a sober maÌ„ and well execused in all good lerning and in the doctors / and finalli a man mete / for hys knowlege / to dispute in that place / I pray yow heare hym / quoth he Than master cheyny desyeryd such as there were present to pray ij M. chenys prayer wordys with hym vnto god / and to say vincat veritas let the veryte take place and haue the vyctory And all that were present cryed with a lowd voyce / vincat veritas / vincat veritas Than sayd doctor weston to him / that was hipocryticall Men may better say / quoth he / vicit veritas / Truth hath goten the victory Master cheyny sayd agayne yff he wold gyue him leaue he wold bryng it to that point that he myght well say soo M. cheny and watson Than he disputed with master watson affter this sort / yow sayd that master haddon was vnmete to dispute becaus he granteth not the naturall and reall presens / but I sape yow are moch more vnmete to answer / becaus yow take a way the substaÌ„ce of the sacrameÌ„t Master watson said he had substribed to the reall presens and shuld not goo a waye from that So sayd weston also and the rest of the pristis / in so moch that off a gret while he could haue no leaue to say any more / till the lordis spake and willed that he shuld be hard Than he told them what he ment by his subscribing to the reall presence / farr other wise than they supposed so than he went forward and prosecuted master haddons argument in prouing that ousia was a substance / vsyng the same reason that master haddon dyd before him / and whan he hadd receyued the same answer also that was made to master haddon / he sayd it was but a lewde refuge / whan they could not answer / to denye the auctor Yet he prouyd the auctor to be a catholyk doctor / and this proued / he coÌ„firmid his saing of the nature and substaÌ„ce further for the similitude of theodorete is this / ê™ he As the tokins of christes body and blood affter the inuocacion of the prist doo change theyr namys and yet continewe the same substance / So the body of christ affter his asceÌ„syon / changed his name and was called immortall / yet had / it his former fasshon / fygure and cyrcumscripcyon / and to speake at one word / the same substance off his body Therfor / sayd master cheyny / yff in the former part of the similitude / yow denye the same substance to continew / than in the latter part of the similitude which agreth with it / I will denye the body of christ / affter his ascensyon to haue the former nature and substance but that were a gret herisy / therfor it is also a gret herisy to take a way the substance of breade and wyne affter the sanctificacyon Than was master watson enforcyd to say that the substance of the body in the former part of the similitude brought in by him / dyd signifye quantite and other accidencys of the sacramentall tokens which be sene / and not the very substance of the same And therfor theodoret sayth / que videntur et ce that is thos thinges which be sene for according to philosophy / the accidentes of thingys be sene / and not the substances M. cheny appealed to the lordes Than master cheyny appealed to the honorable menn and desiered that they shuld gyue no credyte vnto them in so saing / for yff they shuld so thiÌ„ck / as thei wold teach / affter theyr lordshyppys had ridden xl mylys on horseback / as theyr besynes doo sometyme require / they shuld not be able to saye at night that thei sawe theyr horses all the day but only the color of theyr horsys / and by his reason christ must goo to stole and lerne of Aristotle to speake For whan he sawe nathanaell vnder the figg tree yff Aristotle had stand by / he wold haue sayd / no christ / thow sawest not him but the color of him / Affter this / watson sayd / what yff it were graÌ„ted that theodorete was on theyr side / where as they had one of that opinyon / there were an hundreth on the other syde morgaÌ„ is called for to help at a pinch Than the prolocutor called for master morgan to help And he sayd that Theodorete did not more than he might laufullly doo For first he granted the truth / and than / for feare of such as were not fully instructed in the fayth / he spake enigmaticos that is couertly and in a misteri / And this was lawfull for him to doo For first he granted the truth and called them the body of christ and the blood off christ / than affterward he semed to gyue somewhat to the sences and to reason but that theodoret was of the same miÌ„d that thei were of / the wordis folowyng quoth he / doo declare For that which foloweth is a cause off that which went before / and therfor he sayth The immortalyte ce morgaÌ„ is taken with fals alleaging of the text whereby it doth appeare that he ment the dyuyne nature and not the humane Than was morgan taken with misalleagyng of the text For the booke had not this word for for the greke word dyd rather signifye truly / and not / for / so that it myght manifestly appeare that it was the begynning of a newe matter and not a sentence rendering a cause of that he had sayd be sore Than was it sayd by watson agayne / suppose that theodorete be with yow / which is one that we neuer hard off printed / but iij. or iiij yearis agoo Yet he is but one / And what is one agaynst the hole consent of the church Affter thys master cheyny inferrid / that not only theodorete was of that mynd / that the substance of breade aÌ„d wine doo remayne / but diuers other also and specially Ireneus / who makyng mencyon of this sacrament / sayth thus whan the cupp which is mingled with wyne / and the breade that is made / doo receyue the word
the name of thys honorable Synody / and yet putt furth with owt your coÌ„sentis / as I haue lerned / being a book very pestiferos / full of heresyes as he sayd and lyke wyse the booke of comoÌ„ prayer / very abhomynable as it pleased hym to terme it he thought it therfor best fyrst to begynÌ„ wyth the artycles of the cathechysme concernyng the sacrament of the altar / for to coÌ„fyrme the naturall presens of chryst in the same / and for transsubstantyacyon In the which on fryday next ensewyng / he wylled all men there frely to speak theyr tonsciens and lerning / and they shuld be fully satysfyed The fryday comyng beyng the xx of October / whan men had thought they shuld haue entâ—yd disputacyoÌ„ of the qÌ„stâ—oÌ„s ê“posed / the ê“locutor dyd exhybyte ij seuerall billys vnto the how 's th one for the natural pÌ„seÌ„s of chryst in the sacrameÌ„t of the altar / the other coÌ„cerniÌ„g the cathechisme / that it was not of that how 's agreameÌ„t set furth and that thei doo not agree thereunto Requyryng all them to subscrybe to the same as he himsylf had done whereunto the whole how 's dyd iÌ„medyately assent except vi which were the deane of rochester the deane of exceter / the archdeacon of wynchester / the archdeacoÌ„ of hertford / the arthdeacoÌ„ of stowe and one other / And whyle the rest were abowt to subscribe thes ij articles I. filpot stode vp and spake first coÌ„cernyng the article of the cathechysme that he thought thei were deceyued in the tytle of the cathechisme / in that it bearyth the title of the Synode of london last before this / all though mani of theÌ„ which thaÌ„ were present were neuer made pryuy thereof in setting it furth / for that this how 's had graÌ„ted the auctorytye to make ecclesyastical lawys vnto certeÌ„ persons to be appoynted by the kyngys magestye / and what soeuer ecclesyasticall lawes thei or the most part of theÌ„ did set furth accordyng to a statute in that behalf ê“uyded / it might be wel sayd to be do / ne in the synode of loÌ„doÌ„ although such as be of this how 's now had no notyce thereof before the ê“mulgacioÌ„ And in this point he thought the setterfurth thereoff nothing to haue slandred the how 's / as thei by theyr subscripcyon went abowt to persuade the world / sins thei had our synodall auctoritie vnto them coÌ„mitted to make such spirituall lawys as they thought conuenieÌ„t and necessary And more ouer he sayd as coÌ„cerning the article of the naturall presens in the sacrament / that it was agaÌ„yst reasoÌ„ and order of lernyng and also very preiudicyall to the truth that meÌ„ shuld be mouid to substribe before the matter were thorowly examined and discussed But whaÌ„ he sawe that allegacyoÌ„ might take no place / being as a man astoyned at the multitude of so mani lerned meÌ„ as there were off purpose gathered together to mainteyne old tradicyoÌ„s more than the truth of gods holy word / he made his request vnto the prolocutor that where as there were so many awncyent lerned meÌ„ present on that syde as in the realme the lyke againe were not to be fownd in such nomber / and that on the other syde of them that had not subscrybed / were not past .v. or vi both in age and lerning farr inferyor vnto theÌ„ / therfor that equalite might be had in this disputacyoÌ„ he desyered that the prolocutor wold be a meane vnto the lordes that some of thos that were lerned and setters furth of the same cathechisme might be broght in touthe how 's to shewe theyr lerning that mouyd theÌ„ to sett furth the same / And that D. rydley and master rogers with ij or iij. moo might be lycensed to be present at this disputacioÌ„ and to be associate with theÌ„ This request was thought reasonable and was ê“posed vnto the lord bisshops who made this answer that it was not in them to call such parsonis vnto our how 's / syns some of them were prisoners But thei sayd thei wold be petiyoners in this behalff vnto the cowncell / and in case any were absent that ought to be of the how 's / they willed theÌ„ to be taken in vnto them / yff they listed Affter this thei minding to haue enterid in to disputacyon / there came a gentleman a messenger froÌ„ the lord gret master signyfieng vnto the prolocutor that my lord gret master and the earle of deauonshyre wold be present at the disputacyons / and therfor he differryd the same vntill monday at one of the clock at affternone Vp on moÌ„day the xxiij of October at the tyme appoynted / in the presens of many earlys / lordis / knyghtis / gentlemen and diuers other of the coint and of the cytye also / the ê“locutor made a ê“testacyoÌ„ that they of the how 's / had appoynted thys disputacioÌ„ / weston not to call the truth in to dowt / to the which thei had allready all subscribed / sauing v. or vâ— but that thos gayne sayers myght be resolued of theyr argumeÌ„tis in the whych they stode / as it shall appeare vnto yow / not dowtyng but thei wyll also coÌ„descend vnto vs. Than he demaÌ„ded of master haddon whether he wold reasoÌ„ agaynst the qÌ„styoÌ„s ê“posed or no M. haddon To whom he made answere that he had certyfyed hym before by wrytyng that he wold not / syns the request of such lerned meÌ„ as were demaÌ„ded to be assysteÌ„t with theÌ„ / wold not be granted M. Elmar Master elmar lykewyse was asked / who made the prolocutor the lyke answer / addyng moreouer thys / that they had done to moch preiudice all redy to the truth / to substrybe before the matter was discussed and lytle or nothyng it myght auayle to reasoÌ„ for the truth / syns all they were now determyned to the coÌ„trary Affter thys he demaÌ„ded of master chenye whoÌ„ the prolocutor said allowed the presens with them / but he denyed the traÌ„ssubstancyacyon / by the meanis of certen auctorityes vpon the which he stoÌ„deth and desyereth to be resolued / M. cheynyâ—s obietcyons as yow shal heare whether he will ê“pose hys dowtis concernyng traÌ„ssubstaÌ„cyacyoÌ„ or no Yea / quoth he / I wold glady mi dowtes to be resolued which moue me not to byleue transsubstaÌ„cyacion The first is owt of the scripture of s Paull to the corinthyans who speaking of the sacrament of the body and blood of chryst calleth it offt tymis bread / affter the consecracyon The second is owt off Orygen / who speakyng of this sacrament sayth that the materyal part theroff goyth down to the excrementis The third is owt of theodoretus who makyng mencyon of the sacrameÌ„tall bread and wyne after the coÌ„secracyon sayth that they goo not owt of their former substaÌ„ce / forme and shape Thes be some of my dowtis amoÌ„g many other which I require to be answered off
it / quoth fyllpot / yff yow wold lett me alone But fyrst I must nedis axe a question of my respondent who was D. chedsey concernyng a word or twayne of your supposycion / that is / of the sacrament of the altare / what he meanyth thereby / and whether he take as some of the awncyent wryters doo / termyng the lordis supper the sacrament of the altar / becaus it is a sacrament of that liuely sacrifyce which christ offered for our synnis vp on the altar of the crosse and becaus that chrystis body crucifyed for vs was that blody sacrifyee / which the blood shedyng of all the beastis offered vp on the altare in the old lawe dyd prefigurate and signifie vnto vs. And in signifycacyon thereoff / the old writers sometime doo call the sacramēt of the body and blood of chryst / among other namis which thei astrybe thereunto / the sacrament of the altare and that ryght well But yff yow take it other wyse / as for the sacrament of the altare which now a dayes is made of lime and stone and hangen ouer the same / ād to be all one with the sacrament of the masse / as it is at this present in many placis / chedscy than I wyll direct myne argumentis according as your answer shall gyue me occasyon Than made D. chedsey this answer that in theyr supposicyon thei toke the sacrament of the altar and the sacrament of the masse to be all one Fillpot speaketh playne Inglyssh Than quoth fyllpott / I wyl speake playne Inglyssh / as Master prolocutor wylleth me / and make a short resolucyon therof / that that sacrament of the altare which ye reken to be all one with the masse / onys iustly abolisshed and now put in full vse agayne / is no sacrament at all / neyther is christ in any wise presēt in yt And this his saīg he offered to proue before the hole how 's / yff they lysted to call him thereunto / and lykewyse offered to vouch the same before the quenis grace and hyr most honorable cowncell / before the face of vi of the best lernyd men of the how 's of the contrary opinyon / he refused none And yff I shall not be able / quoth he / to mainteyne by gods word that I haue sayd / and confownd thos vi which shall take vp on thē to with stand me in this point / let me be burned with as many fagots as be in london / before the court gates This he vttered with a gret vehemency of spirite At this / the prolocutor with diuers other / were very moch offended / demāding of him whether he wyst what he said or no. Yea / quoth fyllpott I wote well what I say defieryng no mann to be offended with his sayng / for that he spake no more than by gods word he was able to proue And praised be god quoth he / that the quenis grace hath grāted vs off this how 's as our prolocutor hath informed vs that we may frely vtter our consciences in thes maters of controuersie in religyon Here weston confuteth fylpot mightilie And therfor I will speake here my consciēs frely / grownded vp on gods holy word for the truth Albeyt some off yow here present mislyke the same Than dyuers of the how 's besydys the prolocutor / tawnted and reprehended hym / for speakyng so vnfaryngly agaynst the sacrament of the masse / And the prolocutor sayd he was mad and threatened him / that he wold send hym to prison yff he wold not cease his speaking Than fylpot seing him selff thus abused / and not permitted with free lybertie to declare his mynd / fell in to an exclamacyon / castyng his eyes vp towardis the heauyn and said / O lord what a world is this / O lord what meaneth this world / that the truth of thy holy word may not be spoken and abidden by And for very sorow and heuynes the tearis trykled owt of his eyes Affther this / the prolocutor being mouth by some that wore abowt him / was content that he shuld make an argumēt so that he wold be viefe therein Fillpot I will be as brefe / quoth filpot / as I mai cōueniētli be in vttrīg all that I haue to saie And fyrst I wil beginn to grownd mine argumentis vp on the auctorities of scriptures / where vp on all the bylding of our faith ought to be grownded And affter I shall cōfirme the same by auncient doctores of the church And I take the occasiō of my first argumēt owt of the xxiiij of Mathew of the sayng of the angell to the iij. Maryes seking christ at the sepulchre saing / he is risen / he is not here ād in s luke in the xxiij chap. the angell asketh them / whi thei sought him that liueth amōg the dead Like wise the scripture testifieth that christ is rysen / ascended in to heauē and sitteth on the right hand of the father all the which is spoken of his naturall body / ergo it is not on earth included in the sacrament I wyll confyrme this yet moie effectually by the saing of chryst in the xvi of s Iohn I came saith christ / from my father in to the world / and now I leaue the world and goo a way to my father The which coming / and going / he ment of his naturall body / therefor we may affirme thereby that it is not now in the world But I looke here / quoth he / to be answered with a blīd distinction of visibly and inuisibly / that he is visibly departed in his humanite / but inuisibly he remayneth not withstonding in the sacramēt but that answer I prouēt my sylff that with more expedicyon I may descend to the pyth of myne argumentes wherof I haue a dosen to propose / and wyll proue that no such distinccyon maye take awaye the force of that argument / by the answer which his disciples gaue vnto christ speaking thes wordes / now thow speakyst plainely and vtteryst furth no prouerbe which wordis s cyryll interpreting fayth that christ spake with owt any maner of impedy of obscure speach / And therefor I conclude hereby / thus that yff chryst spake plainely and with owt parable / as mē say saing / I leaue / the world now / and goo a waye to my father / thā that obscure / darke and imperceptyble presens of christes natural body to remayne in the sacrament vp on earth inuysibly contrary to the playne wordis of chryst / ought not to be allowed For nothyng can be sayd more vncerten / or more parabolycall and vnsensyble thā so to saye Here now wyll I attēd what ye will answer / and so descend to the cōfyrmacyon of all that I haue sayd by awncyent writers thed seys answer to fyllpot Than D. ched sey recityng his argument in such order as it was made / made
of god / it is made the thankis gyuing of the body and blood of chryst / by the which the substance of our flessh is norisshed and doth coÌ„syst Yff the thankis geuing doo norissh our body / than there is some substance besydes christes body To the which reason / both watson and morgan answered / that ex quibus / by the which / in the sentence of Ireneus were referred to the next antecedent / that is to the body and blood of christ / aÌ„d not to the wyne / which is in the cupp and the breede that is made master cheiny replied that it was not the body of christ / which norisshed our bodyes And let it be that christes flessh norissh to immortalite yet it doth not answer that argument / although it be trewe / no more thaÌ„ that answere which was made to my allegacyon owt of s Paull / The breade which we breake et ce with certeÌ„ other like / whereuÌ„to yow answered that breade was not takeÌ„ there in his ê“per significacyon / but for that that it had bene Nomore thaÌ„ the rodd of Aaron which was takeÌ„ for the serpeÌ„t / becaus it had bene a serpeÌ„t Affter this master cheny brought in hisichius and vsed the same reason that he dyd of the custome of burning of Symbolys / and he axed theÌ„ what was burnt Master watson sayd we must not inquyre nor axe / but yff there were any fawte / impute it to christ Harpsfeld called in to help watson Than sayd master cheiny / where of came thos asshys / not of a substance or can any substance ryse of accydence Than was master harpysfeld called led in / to see what he could say in the matter who told a fayre tale of the omnipotency of god / and of the imbecillitye aÌ„d weakenes of maÌ„s reasoÌ„ / not able to atteyne to godly thinges And he sayd it was coÌ„uenient that what so euer we sawe / felt / ortasted / not to trust our sensys / And he told a tale owt of s here is goodly geare / as if it wereowt of the legend of lyes cypryane how a woman sawe the sacrament burnyng in hir cofer / and that which burnid there / quod harpysfeld / burnyth here and becomyth asshhes but what that was that burnt he could not tell But master cheyny contynewed styll and forced theÌ„ with this question / what it was that was burnt It was eyther / sayd he / the substance of breade or els the substance of the body of christ / which were to moch absurdy te to grant At length they abswered that it was a miracle weston wold knowe whether thei were suficientli answered whaÌ„ he nor his had not answered ond argumeÌ„t where at master cheyny smiled and sayd that he could than / say no more Than D. weston axed of the company there whether thos men were sufficiently answered or not certen prystes cryed yea / but thei were not hard at all / for the great multitude which cryed No / No which crye was hard and noysed allmost to the end of powlys Whereat D. Weston beyng moch moued / answered bitterly that he axed not the iudgement of the rude multytude and vnlerned peple / but of theÌ„ which were of the how 's ThaÌ„ ared he of master haddoÌ„ aÌ„d his felows whether thei wold answer them other iij. dayes Haddon / cheiny and elmer sayd no. But the archdeacon of winchester stode vp aÌ„d sayd that thei shuld not say but they shuld be answered / aÌ„d though all other dyd refuse to answer / yet he wolt not but offered to answer them all / one affter a nother mark mestoÌ„s impudency with whos profer the prolocutor was not contentid / but rayled on him and said that he shuld goo to bedlem To whom the arch-deacon soberly made this answer that he was more worthy to be sent thether who vsed him selff so ragingly in that disputacyon with owt any indifferent-equalite a stroÌ„g argument of weston where he is not able to answer he wold owt fa Than rose D. Weston vp and sayd / There hath all the company subscrybed to our article / sauing only thes menn / which yow see What theyr reasons are / yow haue hard We haue answeryd them iij. Dayes / op on promes as it pleased him to descant / with owt truth / for no such promes was made that thei shuld answer vs agayne / as long As the order of disputacyon doth require and yff they be able to defend their doctrine / let them so doo ThaÌ„ master elmer stode vp aÌ„d ê“ued how a vaine a man weston was for he affyrmed that thei neuer promised to dispute / but only to open and testifie to the world their conscyences for whan thei were required to subscribe thei refused / and sayd thei wold shewe good reasoÌ„s which mouyd their consciences that thei could not with their conscieÌ„ces subscribe / as thei had partly allredy done and were able to doo more sufficieÌ„tly Therfor / quoth he / it hath bene yll called a disputacyon / and thei worthy to be blamet that were the auctors of that name For we ment not to dispute / nor now meane not to answer / before our argumeÌ„tis / quoth he / which we haue to propownd / be soluted according as it was appointed For by answeryng we shuld but incomber our seluys and profite nothing / sins the matter is allredy decreyd vp on and determined / what so euer we shall proue or dispute to the contrary On monday folowyng beyng the xxx of october / weston the prolocutor demanded of Iohn fyllpot archdecon of winchester whether he wold answer in the questions before propowned / to their obieccyons or no To whom he made this answer that he wold willingly so doo / yff according to theyr former determinacyon / thei wold fyrst answer sufficiently to some of his argumentie as thei had promised to doo whereoff he had a dosen and not halff of the first yet decyded And yff thei wold answer fully and sufficiently but to one of his argumentis / he promised that he wold answer all the obyeccyons that they shuld bring Than the prolocutor bad hym propownd his argument and it shuld be resolutely answered / by one of them / whereunto master morgan was appoynted fylpot aÌ„d morgan Vp on wedeÌ„sday last / quoth he / I was inforced to sileÌ„ce before I had beaten owt halff of myne argument / the somme where of was this / as was gatheryd by the iust context of the scripture / that the humane body of christ was ascended into heauen and placyd on the right hand of god the father / wherefor it cold not be situate vp on earth in the sacrameÌ„t of the altare inuisible affter the Imaginacyon of man The argument was denyed by morgane For the profe whereoff / fyllpot sayd that this was it that he had to confirme his first argumeÌ„t / yff he myght