which is drink indeed are nourished up to Eternal life so that while some do eat and drink in that Ordinance unworthily and so eat and drink damnation others by faith feed upon the benefits of Christs death and blood-shed and so are nourished up to Eternal life Answ Is there any thing in the fore-cited place that directs to the use of that which thou cals an Ordinance surely in this thy zeal out-runs thy understanding seeing those be the words of the fore-cited place viz. for as often as ye eat this bread and drink this cup shew ye the Lords death till he come for so it is on the Margent shew ye what is here of direction in these words as to the use of an Ordinance as thou sayest let the wise in heart judge but doth not the Apostles words asmuch if not more signifie to the Corinthians that they might forbear their eating and drinking in that wise as they did eat and drink and their unworthiness was in not discerning of the Lords body and for that cause was many sick and weak c. and for that disorder which was amongst many the Apostle reproves them as for their greediness and drunkenness the like and exhorts them to eat at home in their own houses but he never calls it an Ordinance to be ministred once a Moneth or once a week and that alwayes by some men or man appointed by the rest in their wills and wayes some to buy wine and bread and others to break it and deliver to the rest but Christ did not do so for in the same night in which he was betrayed he took bread and when he had given thanks he brake it and said take eat this is my body this do in remembrance of me after the same manner also he took the cup when he had Supped and did he bid you do so or do you do so after Supper or can you give thanks as he did or do you know what he said when he gave thanks or do you imitate him in saying his very words in one thing viz. this is my body and do you speak your own words in other things as when you give thanks or do you take a piece of bread and a cup of wine and say nothing at all but eat and drink and if you do it not in the same manner which he did it in is it then his Ordinance or your invention seeing Gods Ordinances must be kept as they were delivered and observed as he commanded them otherwise they are none of his and if not his then but a likeness and if a likeness then that which God hath forbidden and so is Idolatry and he an Idolator that so worships and in that state cannot enter into the Kingdom of God And whereas thou sayest some might eat this bread and drink this cup which is also called flesh and blood unworthily Take heed James of calling a lie a plea for truth in love to truth remember the Title of thy book where is that bread and that cup which a man may eat unworthily called flesh and blood as thou positively affirms in thy query it is surely thou discerns not Christs body for if thou did thou wouldst learn to speak truth are not these the words of the Apostle that thou intendst viz. wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread and drink this cup of the Lord unworthily shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord but where is it called flesh and blood surely this is a gross errour of thine not onely to call the outward bread the outward cup which an unworthy and wicked man may eat and drink flesh and blood and if flesh and blood whose flesh and blood is it not Christs flesh and Christs blood and can an unworthy man and woman eat and drink that surely no if Christs words be true and I must believe him before thee James and he saith John 6.54 whosoever eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath Eternal life how sayest thou then in thy query some might eat this bread and drink this cup which thou sayest is also called flesh and blood unworthily but where is the bread the cup which some may eat and drink unworthily called flesh and blood take heed of slandering the Scripture And then thou drawest up thy query into a short conclusion in these words viz. so that while some do eat and drink in that Ordinance unworthily and so eat and drink damnation other by faith feed upon the benefits of Christs death and blood-shed and so are nourished up to Eternal life and herein thou hast made a good confession that while some in that which thou calls an Ordinance eat and drink damnation others who live by faith and feed upon the benefits of Christs death and blood-shed and are not that which thou calls an Ordinance and yet are nourished up to Eternal life and so of what thou hast spoken this is the sum that some in that Ordinance eat and drink damnation and others out of it feed upon the living bread that comes down from heaven and have Eternal life abiding in them Q. 7. Whether those that deny Church fellowship do not forsake their own mercies seeing Gods children have found by sweet experience that it is of singular use for their building upon their most holy faith it being the place of Christs promised presence where he hath commanded the blessing and life for evermore Answ Those that deny that Church that is in God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ Thes 1. and that fellowship that is in the light as he is in the light 1 John â— denyes the true Church-fellowship and forsakes their own mercies and that light in which alone all the Saints ever had all their sweet experiences given them of Gods love and tender mercy to them and in that who ever walked and continued in it built up one another in their most holy faith that being the place of Christs promised presence for there he dwells for ever and out of his light none can meet with him or know him and out of that is the false Church and Church-fellowship and Christian outward and baptism outward that onely washes away the filth of the flesh but knows not the answer of a good conscience by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ for from the true light was and is the false Church and fellowship for they went out from us saith the Apostle who had his fellowship in the light Q. 8. Whether they may not most truely be said to live above Ordinances that faithfully wait upon and live to Christ in the use of them Answ They that wait upon and live to Christ in the use of Ordinances cannot be said to live above them for that which God hath appointed and Ordained as the way to Eternal life and happiness none may live above it for the the way and the life are one and he that is in the way is in the truth and in the life also
thy brethren then thou art at present sensible of but if repentance prevent not in time thou mayest feel the weight In thy 2. page thou saist That thou dost wish that Thomas White and his friends may also carefully walk by the rule T.W. prescribeth to thee and thy friends then thou saist he will be so far from speaking against his holy appointments that he will love and keep them maist thou not be judged out of thy own mouth Did Thomas White shoot a fiery dart and dost thou not shoot a poisoned arrow and dost not thou charge him with speaking against Gods holy appointments and as if he neither loved them nor kept them nor delighted in those that did How many falsities and untruths are here in two lines was it no better then a reviling slander in Thomas White and didst thou judge it so and therefore saith that thou thinkest that he ought to be deeply humbled before the Lord for the same because he said while many of you are professing praying and yet stumbling at contending against that in which alone all worship c. is accepted in the sight of God Is his offence so great because he did not name them though he knew them and is thy offence mitigated because thou names Thomas White but chargest him falsely with that which thou canst not prove against him and yet calls thy sayings a plea for truth c as if thy Title to thy Book were to priviledge thy calumnies and Authority sufficient to pass thy reproaches without a review or farther examination but thy beautiful Title is but like the Pharisees beautifying the outside of the cup and platter while the inside was foul and like Pilate who wrote a good Title over Christ calling him King of the Jews but delivered him up to be crucified as a blasphemer So thy fair Title doth but aggravate thy offence in that thou slanders the innocent and calls it a plea for truth in love to truth as if light and darkness could unite together and truth and falshood marry each other which neither can be neither shall they go unpunished who go about to reconcile them In the 3. page of thy Book thou askest Thomas White in those words why dost thou upbraid us do we say that the Scriptures direct not to or speak not of a light within we both know and say that the Scripture saith 2 Cor. 4.6 that God hath shined in the hearts of his Saints to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ James Pope when thou saist do we say and we both know and say c. Dost thou onely intend thy self and some one or two more or dost thou intend all the Baptists generally seeing that thy self may not be ignorant how many Baptists have both in Print and disputes publikely disowned the light within that checks and reproves for sin to be sufficient to lead to salvation which thou seems to acknowledge in words to be true and chargest Thomas White for upbraiding of you in that he saith are not many of you strangers to the light whilst you are questioning whether the Scriptures declare of or direct to a light within c. which thing hath often been questioned by many Baptists and such as are none of the least in esteem among you and if thou wilt declare against them that have so questioned and disputed and deny fellowship with them for not being sound in the faith I may help thee to a Catalogue of their names the publike dispute at Dunstable may bring some of them to thy remembrance But are you not better informed then you were some years since and somewhat rectified in your judgements if so let the praise be given to God and your former errours and mistakes be printed and published for others to take heed by especially seeing many who are called Baptists in England are yet in the dark and questioning what thou on the behalf of thy brethren seems to confesse to and let your unity make it appear that you do not onely confesse to the light within that checks and reproves for sin to be that alone which gives the knowledge of God in the face of Christ and that a man cannot have the knowledge of God in Christ until the light give it to him but also that you walk in the light and have fellowship one with another in the light and that in it you witness the blood of Jesus Christ to cleanse you from all sin that so none of you may stumble at the Doctrine of perfection but if you say you have fellowship with God and are in the fellowship of the Gospel and walk in darkness and stumble at figures and shadows you lie and do not the truth for in him is no darkness at all And whereas thou sayest Thomas White deals uncharitably with you in putting you in the number of those that are lost in whom the God of this world hath blinded their eyes c. It is no uncharitableness to speak the truth and to say that those who are stumbling at that which is given them to lead out of darkness are such as the God of this world hath blinded their minds and that such are in a lost estate and the Gospel of their salvation they do not know for it is hid from them and he that judges such so to be is not uncharitable but his judgement is just and the uncharitableness doth light upon thy own head And whereas thou sayest in these words thou must give me leave to query how thou darest abuse us c. James thy tongue is too much thy own in speaking leesing for leave I do not give thee to query of that which is not for that is breath spent in vain for it is no abuse to query how they can professe they know God who deny the light of his Son within but leaves out these following words viz. in which the Father is revealed and by which that that may be known of God is made manifest in man is this a plea for truth in love to truth to take half a sentence or so much as may serve to make a cavil and leave out that which is the main and explanatory part of the whole or is it rather in imitation of him who made use of Scripture to tempt Christ withal but left out what might make against his design may he not justly be charged as a transgressor that shall say there is no God though he quote the Scripture for it which saith there is no God but leaves out the foregoing words which makes the saying true which is that the fool hath said in his heart there is no God doth thy crime differ in any thing from his that should so say more then this that he leave out the foregoing words and thou leaves out Thomas Whites following words and to say that such a one is a deceitful worker and for it must come to judgement is but to
endeavoured to make outward water to be may be easily seen by the upright in heart who saith not onely it must continue because fitted to the New Testament as Circumcision was to the Old and so in like manner as the Teachers of Circumcision thrust in that upon the bewitched Galatians and said except they were Circumcised they could not be saved do not all you whose judgement this is do the same concerning your water when you say It is fitted to the New Testament as Circumcision was to the Old And do not you make Proselites by your outward water as they did by Circumcision But as if this were not enough thou saist Outward water is that one Baptism spoken of by Paul joined with the one Faith one Lord and the one God as if that outward water either lets into the union with Christ or the want of it makes void the union and yet you say in words that union with Christ must precede and fit the subject before a right can be to water and yet what it should be that should make you cry up water so much I know not seeing you have no positive Command by Christ in plain words for it except through the cunning craftiness of the old serpent who gives leave to cry up and to rest upon any thing that is outward on purpose to busie the mind upon and to blind the eye from looking at or upon any thing revealed within that onely can give the knowledge of God in Christ and manifests to the Souls its union with and compleatness in Christ Jesus both as to the true Circumcision and Baptism Col. 2.11 12. The next Question thou saist Thou understands not which was whether such do truly discern the Lords body eat his flesh and drink his blood who do imagine of the flesh blood and bones of Christ as the Jews did And yet as if thou wert concerned in the Query though thou understand it not as thou saist will return some kind of answer to it which is not the part of a wise man to give an answer to that which he positively saith he understands not as thou dost but thy answer makes it manifest that thou art not sensible of that fond imagination which runs in the minds of filthy creatures who defile the flesh for thou saist If it be meant of the believing Jews who did believe that Christ rose from the dead with his flesh and bones as himself testifies such may truly discern the Lords hody eat his flesh and drink his blood c. Doth not this answer savour of a Jew outward Or art thou mistaken as thou wast in thy former quotation when as there is neither Chap. nor vers to be found so in this also seeing thou names onely flesh and bones and the Query was flesh and blood and bones as a real man hath or dost thou imagine of Christ that he had or hath flesh and bones onely and no blood like a real man If so speak plainly in thy next Book that I may know thy Opinion in this particular and name thy proof or if it be the Errata of the Printer let thy next be rectified that thou hadst forgotten to put down the blood and so I may pass it by for the present To the next Question which is whether that flesh which is meat indeed and that blood which is drink indeed be not spiritual and that which quickneth and nourisheth up to eternal life all those that feed thereon To this thou confesseth but cannot know it but in the light no more then the Jews did who said how can this man give us his flesh to eat And it is as hard a saying now as it was then though easilier confest now because it is written and may be read To the last Query which is What is that flesh that profiteth nothing And what is that flesh after which Christ was once known yet henceforth know we him so no more To which thou returns this answer Christ in John 6.63 shews that it is the Spirit that quickneth and therefore without that all is without profit whatever is done in the flesh without the Spirit and so if you take it of being implyed in Ordinances with the flesh or outward man onely it profiteth nothing This is thy answer to the first part of the Query viz. What is that flesh which profiteth nothing Can any wise man take this for an answer to the Question or is it not a declining the Question and answering to another Question of thy own framing As if thou had been asked whether that worship that is performed in the flesh or outward man onely without the Spirit of God profiteth or not If this had been the Question then thou hadst returned an answer somewhat pertinent but the Question that thou was to answer to was What is that flesh that profiteth nothing Considering what the foregoing Question was and thy answer to it viz. that there is a flesh that is spiritual and doth nourish to eternal life all those that feed thereon then comes this Question in the next words as depending upon the foregoing Question and what then is that flesh that profiteth nothing seeing there is flesh that nourishes up to eternal life But thou in stead of giving an answer what flesh it is that profiteth nothing tells a story of what ever is born in the flesh or outward man without the Spirit profits not c. A Child that reads his Primer might have said so much by rote out of the Catechism and yet thou quotes John 6.63 as if thy answer were intended to that place of Scripture as if thou didst believe the Question was grounded upon that place which answer of thine doth manifest as if Christ were speaking in this place of worshipping in the flesh without the Spirit and instructing his Disciples that the worshipping in the flesh without the Spirit profiteth nothing which thing though true in it self yet not true in this place as being the thing Christ was at this time teaching his Disciples for he was here rather rectifying and informing of them aright seeing they seemed to be prejudiced at Christs foregoing words about eating his flesh and drinking his blood and saying at the 57. ver he that eateth me even he shall live by me and at the 58. ver This is that bread which came down from Heaven not as your fathers did eat Manna and are dead he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever and at the 60. ver Many therefore of his Disciples when they heard this said This is an hard saying Who can hear it When Jesus knew in himself that his Disciples murmured at it he said unto them Doth this offend you What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before It is the Spirit that quickneth the flesh profiteth nothing the words that I speak unto you they are Spirit and they are life So that it is manifest Christs drift and scope in