Word of God which is the greatest Argument of Soveraign Honour Nay in some of their Bibles you shall find Moses and Aaron stand in the very next Leaf to the Ten Commandments which what is it Beloved but a Defiance to the Second Whereas the Papists being more modest than to affront it have put it away far from them But this is not all my Brethren for they pray to their Pictures for if you but look over their Shoulders you 'l see their Pictures in the very heat of their Devotion under their very Eyes in the Leaves of their Common-Prayer Books And therefore mark me now Beloved if we must believe our own Senses they pray to the Pictures and to the Leaves and to the Idol Common-Prayer Books and all This indeed had been something like and would have pieced well with what follows that our Altars have their Images too and that in a more profane way than the Papists c. Well but let us suppose our Church bound to answer for these Pictures and for Moses and Aaron c. Are we enjoyned to pay them any Worship as they of the Romish Communion are obliged to pay to their Images The Council of Trent has determined That due Honour and Veneration must be given to Images and that the Honour which is given to them is referred to the Things which they represent Has the Church of England done any thing like this We read of several Prayers used at the Consecration of Images amongst them But whoever heard of any such thing practised at the setting up of Moses and Aaron We know that they walk many Miles in Pilgrimage to particular Images and that they think much more good is to be expected from some than from others But who ever thought so among us or imagined that the Pictures of Moses and Aaron in Cornhill were more to be honoured than those in Woodstreet or in any other place So that how silly soever the Zealous Brother may appear to be in imputing to us upon such frivolous grounds the worship of Images I am sure that he who made the Harangue for him is either much more so or something that is worse in pretending that when we urge the same against the Papists the Reasons we go upon are no better than his But we do at least make Images and Pictures which the second Commandment expresly forbids as he makes his Brother say And now a Reason of the Answerer is produced that no Intention can alter the nature of Actions which are determined by a Divine Law I would therefore know of him whether there be or be not good reason to make us certain that the second Commandment does not absolutely forbid the making of Images and Pictures but only with reference to worshipping them If there be no good Reason for it let him then tell me whether any Intention can justify the making of Images against an absolute Law to the contrary If there be let him then but confess what he thinks of this Objection that he has put into his Brother's Mouth and there 's one labour saved I confess it were not ill for him if some Intention might justify the breaking of the ninth Commandment for he pretends that the New Common-Prayer-Books do not profess that hatred to Image-Worship which the Old ones did When in the Commination to which he refers the very first instance runs thus Cursed is the Man that maketh any carved or molten Image to worship it Does he think that his Dissenting Brother must answer for these things 4. Neither is he more Just to us in making his Zealous Brother to object against us that we worship Saints and Angels For to pass by the Argument about erecting Temples to them to which we have already spoken Is our giving Thanks to God upon set Days for such eminent Examples of Faith and Vertue as the first Propagators of the Gospel were Is our commemorating their Patience and all their other Divine Graces to excite one another to the Imitation of them Is our Praying to God that we may be Followers of them who through Faith and Patience inherit the Promises Is this I say any thing like to what the Council of Trent declares That they think wickedly who deny that Saints are to be Invoked Is it of the same nature with owning them to be Mediators of Intercession the same with putting up them that sort of Petitions which are fit to be offered to God only Or does our Praying upon St. Michael's Day that by God's appointment his holy Angels may succour and defend us come near even so much as to one single Holy Michael Pray for us which Form of Words tho much inferiour to what is sometimes used in the Church of Rome we never dare to venture upon because we cannot make Addresses either to him or to any other Angel or Saint but by interpretation we must ascribe the Divine Attribute of Omnipresence to them and for many other Reasons which yet we have not been able to get an Answer to from these Men. But he says that we Pray on St. Michael's Day as if God were not able to defend us and therefore we seek shelter under the Angel's Wings And this surely is to worship Angels By like reason if we pray for our Daily Bread we pray as if God were not able to preserve us without it And this would be to worship Bread The Representer makes too bold with his Zealous Brother and with us too if he would have it thought that we reason against them at this rate But by this time I hope he sees to how little purpose he applies that of the Answerer to this matter viz. that All worship of Invisible Beings is Religious Worship c. For as yet he has not proved that we worship Saints or Angels and if he has done his best towards it here I will be bold to say that he knows he cannot prove it against us as we can against them if there were any need of it But there is no need of it because they confess it 5. As for what is objected about our Idolatry in Receiving the Sacrament if I did not know the Prompter I should be ashamed to find it amongst such Instances as are said to be built upon the same Maxims that our Objections against the Papists are For how far soever We and the Zealous Brother might in other cases be said to agree in the Reasons of what we Object I am sure it is most unreasonable to say we agree in this For do we as the Papists hold that the Bread and Wine are changed into the natural Body and Blood of Christ Do we require any worship to be paid to the Elements after Consecration Do we elevate or carry them about on purpose to have them adored by the People Nay with reference to our receiving the same in the posture of Kneeling is it not as fully as can be declared That what posture is meant for a
signification of our humble and grateful acknowledgment of the benefits of Christ to all worthy Receivers That no Adoration is hereby intended for that the Sacramental Bread and Wine remain still in their very natural Substances and the Natural Body and Blood of our Saviour are in Heaven and not here Which Declaration is the more significant one would think as being made by our Church in Opposition to those who do Adore the Sacrament Especially since it was not the posture of Kneeling when the Sacrament is received which of it self could make such a Declaration needful but the Scandal which they give to the World who Adore it Had this been considered by the Representer his Brothers Zeal might well have been spared in saying They may say they do not pay Religious Worship to the Bread and Wine and Honour the Sacrament as God But what must we not believe our senses in so plain a Case Or else his Zeal should not have stopt here but carried him a little farther to appeal to his own Eyes that we honour the Patin and Chalice as Gods too by falling down to them on our Knees for this is as plain a Case as the other and our Church has made no Declaration against it in solemn and particular Terms neither as it has against the Adoration of the Bread and the Wine But I guess that the Zealous Brother when he is once at liberty to speak for himself will confess that he sees neither the one nor the other and that it is no affront to his Eyes to acquit us of Adoring the Sacrament and to yield that when we receive it we Adore God and him only in a posture which as we think well becomes the thankful Receivers of such Holy Mysteries However tho we it seems must not be believed when we say that we do not adore the Sacrament at all yet we will not be so hard to the Church of Rome but believe her telling us that she does Adore the Sacrament and that with Divine Honour too And when the Zealous Brother gets our Church at any Advantage like this or can find out any practices amongst us like those above mentioned we shall hear him I doubt not speaking to better purpose for himself than as his Brother here has taught him And now I think I have omitted nothing in the first Five of the Fifteen Parallels that required the least notice but have rather ventured being laugh'd at by the Representer for giving any serious Answers where he meant only to Ridicule But by this he may see what little reason there was to Crow over his Adversary as he does upon this occasion which was all that I intended And therefore since it is needless to drive the Parallel any farther with that circumstance which I have hitherto used I must not do a needless thing which according to one of his weighty Observations would be Six-pence a piece more for the Curious Especially since the Answerer has done Reason enough to the remaining Particulars For tho the Representer to save himself from any further Reply comes off with telling him that he answered the whole charge with The Dissenters never charged us with this or that c. and nothing else yet the Reader will find more said than this comes to if he will consult the Answer it self instead of taking the Representers word But I hope Five of his Particulars have been handled his own way And now I offer him this either in full Satisfaction or in part of Payment let him chuse as he likes 't is all one to his Humble Servant And therefore if he will please to call upon me for Arrears I promise him that our calling upon the Birds the Beasts and the Fishes shall not be forgotten nor our crying out to Dead Men in our most solemn Devotion nor the Apochrypha in the Liturgy nor the Rochet the Alb and the Tunicle nor any thing else which yet wants a Vindication as he says But to return him one of his familiar Phrases I shall take occasion of playing him the same Tune over again as distinctly upon the remaining Ten as he has had it already upon his first Five Particulars And now let us go on with his Reply in which the next thing I observe is that he will needs have the Answerer to bid fair for the good opinion of Dissenters and to curry closely with the Dissenters and to throw those scandals upon his own Church in good earnest Pag. 5. which the Representer did little more than in jest If the Representer could have turned his Adversaries Pen against the Dissenters there are some would have had a better opportunity of currying closely with the Dissenters and I shall tell him who they are before I have done with him But it seems we are not for doing every good thing in the very nick when he would have it done And so to be revenged on us we must be represented as currying with the Dissenters which yet we are as far from when we own our Agreement with them in those many things which they no less than we object against the Papists as from currying with the Papists when we confess that we agree with them in those fewer things that are to be objected against the Dissenters And yet currying with the Dissenters is not so great a Fault but he could tell them upon the Spot how their Sufferings are at an end now our Churches power has been something check'd Pag. 5. which he thinks they may Reflect upon But if the Representer would win their good opinion he should of all things beware of putting them in mind to Reflect lest when they begin to Reflect upon those things of which he speaks they should chance to Reflect upon other things of which he speaks not Me thinks too I may reasonably suspect a little currying of the Representer in what comes next For whereas the Answerer thought the Dissenters too wise and cautious to take Characters of us from Their own open and professed Enemies for that was his plain meaning the Representer understands him as if he had meant our i.e. the Church of Englands profest Enemies Pag. 6. and then hopes that our People will henceforth be so wise as not to take Characters of Popery from us who are as he says Enemies to Papists But whether he was resolved to make this mistake for the sake of the neat Turn or to save himself from saying whether he was Friend or Enemy to the Dissenters I leave him to resolve But I hope he does not expect that I should take notice of every such little Reflection as he knows this to be And yet I must needs vindicate the Answerer from that Charge that whereas the Representer granted that his Protestant Character of a Papist was not made up wholly of down-right Lies the Answerer stretches this Courtesy with a witness Pag. 9. Pag. 10. and concludes that we have the Representer's word for it
Scholar that we have not so much as Certainty of our Faith nay not of one Point of it and which is still more false that we cannot pretend to it No wonder that we find it so hard a matter to get a little Discourse about Religion with those whom they have had the breeding of when we see what an absurd pretence to Religion they represent ours to be all at once especially since they take care to let them know that 't is not well possible for any two Protestants or Sectaries to be of one Religion Id. p. 42. every man expounding the Scriptures as he lifts and no one having power to control the others Exposition of it Which if their Schollars believe they must needs conclude the Protestants must profess as many Religions almost as they are men and Women since it is not well possible for any two of them to be of one and the same Religion And I think any body may see that this is taught to discourge all who are educated in this perswasion of us from hearing what we have to say for our selves since by hearkning to one or two of us they are never the nearer but must talk perhaps with a million before they can understand the Religion of Protestants nay and shall then be as much to seek for it as they were at first For what he says of every mans expounding the Scripture as he lists no one having power to control the others Exposition of it It is also an untrue suggestion if by expounding the Scripture as we list he means arbitrary and groundless Expositions of Scripture Which when the Representer pleases I can prove the Church of Rome to be more guilty of then any Church that we know in the World besides If any are guilty of it amongst us there is a power in our Church to control them which has also been used upon occasion unless by power he means a Cudgel and this we do not take to be Church power Again he says that all Heretics pretend equally to the Scripture for their Novelties and Heresies Id. p. 44. which is not true neither no one of them ever yielding to another Which is notoriously false for many of those whom he calls Heretics have yielded to the reasonings of others out of the Scriptures who are also Heretics with him And this plainly shews that some of these men care not what they say to disgrace us when they will so positively affirm a thing which 't is impossible for them to know but it may be false nay which 't is not well possible for them not to know that it is false 'T is after the same way that our Doctrines and Practices are represented by retail of which I shall give you but one instance which I well remember and that is where the Catechist assuring his Scholar that their Laiety receive whole Christ under one kind Tells him also that this is incomparably more than the pretended Reformers have under both Id. p. 205. who receive onely a bit of Bakers Bread with a poor sup of common Vintners Wine By which scandalous way of representing our Communion to a Novice he would be apt to believe that when we celebrate the Eucharist out great business is to send to the Baking-house for Bread and to the Tavern for Wine and so we fall to eating and drinking without any more ado If he would be Steeling his Novice against us he should at least have been so just to us as to let him know that we do not give the people common Bread and Wine though we do not pretend to give them the natural substance of Christ's Body and Blood For that way of Misrepresenting us by charging the particular opinions of some Protestants upon all They have the confidence to do it even in those points wherein neither Protestants nor Papists are of the same mind among themselves And though the Doway Catechism represents us so divided that 't is not well possible for any two of us to be of the same Religion yet when again 't is for their turn to Represent us otherwise there is not an odd opinion of any Protestant but forthwith it belongs to the Religion of all the rest Thus we have been charged for making God the Author of Sin and that for nothing but for the sake of those Opinions held by some Protestants which are no less vehemently defended by some Papists In which kind of Representations no man I think has out done the Reconciler of Religions whoever he was printed in the year 1663. They teach says he profane false and ungodly Doctrines as for example That God is the Author of Sin that Christ despaired upon the Cross Which later Opinions this man and Fevardentius and divers others as I well remember fasten upon Calvin and then talk as if it was the received Doctrine of all Protestants So says he P. 14. They say that Christ suffered the pains of Hell upon the Cross and that this was is his Descention into Hell See Calvin here Psal 15. Now I think Calvin does say so But 't is so small a matter in Comparison to charge what one says upon All that I shall lay no great stress upon it But that which follows is admirable Neither says he are they miserably mad only but also diabolically malitious for it s of meer purpose they say and do thus lest that by clear places of Tradition and Scripture they should be constrained to confess that there is a Purgatory Are not these rare Men thus at once to charge us with what we do nat say or do and withal to pronounce concerning our Intentions in so doing and that in this Vile manner that no honest Heathen ever used his Neighbour so Nay if you will believe this Representer Ibid. They that hear Sectarian Ministers are not Believers for they do not truly believe in God the Father Almighty nor in Jesus Christ his only Son For he knows their Hearts better then they do themselves P. 15. and let them be never so confident that they do he will prove that they do not believe in the Holy Ghost And he peremptorily says that they do not believe the Communion of Saints And lastly That neither do they believe forgiveness of sins For which he brings an excellent Reason Because they say say The Priests cannot forgive Sins Though we do not say that neither but only that they cannot forgive Sins Absolutely which now they would perwade us too to be their own Doctrine P. 16. Thus he has made us Infidels almost throughout the Creed only at last he grants that we believe the Resurrection of the Flesh and the Life Everlasting which I wonder at because it was as easie to invent a reason why we believe not this neither as for all the rest But then even in this matter we are no better Believers then the Devil For says he this they believe and so do the Devils No