them againe some drop should go downe his throte and so he should breake his fast But I will let passe these high points disputed in their Canon law and greatest doctors and of this that is sayd I desire the christian reader to iudge whether these wordes are vntrue that a priest may saye two or thrée Masses in one day The. B. of Saris. Concerning consecration he doth great wrong to charge vs with the breach of it before hee him selfe and other of his side are better resolued wherein consecration standeth For Scotus and Innocentius the .3 say that this word benedixit worketh consecration Harding The .56 vntruth VVe are resolued herein The .57 vntruth Scotus and Innocentius say it not Dering Maister Harding to make his vntruthes very common vseth such Logick as is very rare Where the antecedent argument do hang togither he maketh them both vntrue Wel may this doing haue credite among the simple but when the learned doe sée it they do easily say that these vntruthes haue more consideration of number than regarde of good matter and substance But let vs take them as they be the folly of the vntruthmaker shall the more appeare We are sayth maister Harding fully resolued herein that is wherein consecration standeth It is pitie that his worde hath not the Popes priuiledge that it might not erre He neuer wanteth audacitie to denie at aduentures whatsoeuer mislyketh him He sayth in consecration we are all agréed but Marcilius one of his owne doctors saith it is not so Whether of these say true it shal appeare hereafter We agrée sayth maister Harding that consecration of the bread and wine is wrought by these wordes hoc est corpus meuÌ„ this is my body and hic est sanguis meus this is my bloud And of this iudgement is their Pope holye patriarche Saint Peter Lumbarde yet the whole counsell of of Florence say consecration is wrought with all the wordes togither as they lye The chapter of Coleine say these words are not sufficient without the Canon of the Masse Saint Augustine sayth it is wrought with the word of fayth which we preach Saint Ambrose saith these wordes accipite comedite take and eate are part of consecration So haue these men the councell of Florence the chapter of Coleine Saint Augustine and Saint Ambrose against them Now let vs sée how they agrée among themselues Scotus sayth in finall resolution Dico breuiter ê™ non est nobis traditum certitudinaliter an ad formam coÌ„secraâ—ionis sanguinis partineant aliqua verba post illud sanguis meus vel an aliquot illoruÌ„ sequentiuÌ„ vlque illuc hoc facite â–ª c. Ideo periculosum est hoc asserere de quo sufficiens authoritas non habetur I say briefly that we haue no assurance at all whether any other wordes appertaine vnto consecration of the bloud after this is once said this is the cup of my bodie or whether the residue wordes following be part of consecration or no vntill it is sayd take and drinke c. Therefore it is daungerous 〈◊〉 affirme anye thing where you haue no sufficient authoritie And it followeth in Scotus and by this it is manifest they speake vndoscretly which say it is necessary to know in euery sacrament what are the precise and very words of consecration He saith further Let no man say I will vse these precise wordes simplicitie is much surer And vpon this he remoueth a doubt that if the priest should say this is my body and say nothing of that which gooth before we ought not to worship it but on this condicion if it be consecrate And these are Scotus verye wordes iudge now whether he agrée with Peter Lumbarde or whether he be resolued what to say or whether Maister Harding be not past shame that so boldely writeth of all the men that euer wrote maister Iuel might worst haue alleaged Scotus And that all Catholike be fully resolued in this For a larger proufe let vs yet examine it a little further Gabriel Biel expounding the Canon of the Masse ouer these wordes benedixit fregit he writeth ouer benedixit consecrando ouer fregit non panem sed panis speciem so by Biels opinion Christ did consecrate with benedixit he blessed Ludulp de Saxonia and Ihnocentius 3. agréeth with Gabriel Biel. Thomas and Bonauentura say that Christ spake these words twise hoc est corpus meum and so consecrated by them when he pronounced them first secretly Then thus farre M. Hardings doctors doe not well agrée Alexander de ales knoweth not well what to say he sayth in one place Christus dixit bis Christ spake the wordes of consecration twise Afterward he sayth consecrauit nos quo modo nescimus he did consecrate we know not howe Lastly he sayth virtus erat in manibus there was a secrete power in his handes This Doctor is much like Scotus he knoweth not what to say Marciliê° saith how Christ did coÌ„secrate doctores diuersimode dicunt doctors are of diuers minds Some sayd he consecrated without pronouncing any wordes Thus euery man speaking his fansie not guided by the worde of God they walke in darknesse and can not tell whither they go But Maister Harding will say though they can not agrée how Christ did consecrate yet they are fully agréed how themselues doe consecrate This as is before aleaged out of Scotus is not true But before I shew their diners opinions I would demaund of some of maister Hardings friendes howe a good conscience may be satisfied concerning this matter How Christ did consecrate as appeareth they do not agrée and so much maister Harding graunteth and vpon this Scotus sayth Intendebant narrare rem gestam non tradere formam consecrationis The Euangelists intended to set forth the storie not to leaue vnto vs any forme of consecration And Marcilius sayth nullus Euangelistarum nèc etià m Apostolus videtur hanc formam vidisse None of the Euangelists neyther yet the Apostles séeme to haue gyuen our forme of consecration Here I make this reason The Scriptures beare witnesse of Christ and how his body was made but the scriptures beare no witnesse of consecration therefore by their consecration his body is not made Againe consecration being of such force that they themselues confesse their host should no time be worshipped but with condicion if it be wel consecrate and yet this consecration is not taught vs by the scriptures howe is the saying of our sauiour Christ true that the holy ghost should teach vs all truth or how hath Saint Luke fulfilled his promise that sayd he would write of all things euen from poynt to poynt Againe where maister Harding sayth and commonly his other doctors holde that Christ did consecrate by these wordes this is my body if they wil stand to that for ought y t I sée they ouerthrow their owne Masse Christ did breake y e breade
before he spake those words as appeareth by all the Euangelists and by Saint Paule but they holde it vp whole and bid vs worship and after at more leysure they breake it in péeces But to what purpose should I examine their doings God deliuer vs from that crooked and froward generation Now for tryall of maister Harding his vaunts I will alleage some of his doctors that thou mayst know whether they are agréed about their own consecration The common opinion is consecration is wrought by these wordes this is my body But Mercillius sayth that enim is part of consecration and that the Church was so taught by Saint Peter Gabriel Biel and his companions say that enim is not necessarye for the consecration but for him that doth consecrate and he that leaueth it out should sinne deadly and yet Mathew Marke Luke and Paule all foure did leaue it out I trow without deadly sinne The Decretals teach vs that all which is in the canon of the Masse though it be not in the scripture yet we must take it as receyued from the Apostles And so the matter shall be fully discussed That is of consecration which the Canon appointeth Gracian alleaging S. Ambros maketh the priest to say in the person of Christ all these wordes accipite comedite c. so alleaging that for the consecration he maketh these sixe wordes of consecration take eate this is my body He sayth likewise alleaging Eusebius Nowe for the consecration of the cup M. Harding sayth these are the wordes this is my bloud Nay sayth Gabr. Biel forma indubitata the vndoubtfull forme is this this is the cup of my bloud and sayth boldly sufficienter plene significant conuersionem fully and sufficienly they work consecration Yet vpon better aduice writing vpon the maister of the sentences he sayth forma consecrationis specierum vini necessaria precisa ex scriptura canonica non est sufficienter determinata The forme of consecration of the wine what is precise and necessarie the canonicall scriptures haue not sufficiently determined it By this it is plaine that M. Hardings doctors will not all agrée except you take them in their good moode Biel sometime will not sticke in it you shall haue consecration wherein you will another tyme he is flatly resolued and sayth out of doubt thus it is And least maister Harding should wrangle with his wordes himselfe maketh full resolution of his meaning and sayth further dubium est an aliqua verba preter illa hic est calix sanguinis mei sint de necessitate consecrationis there is a doubt whether any wordes beside these this is the cup of my bloud be of necessitie of consecration And being not able to determin such a learned question he sayth this is certaine say all the words in the Canon of the Masse and consecration is among them Here thou séest good reader this man that is one place maketh no bones at it but sayth out of question it is thus in another place he cryeth peccaui and for his lyfe dareth not affirme one word and yet did Gabriel knowe as much of consecration as M. Harding doth But let vs heare other Scotê° as is already said knoweth not what is the exact forme and saith that the Grekes vse an other forme than we do And here by the way note that M. Harding findeth great fault with Maister Iuel for alleaging the Gréeke Church and sayth they were but certaine Scismatikes yet Scotus alleageth the same and accounteth them as Catholikes but so is maister Harding prepared in a burning desire to gainsay M. Iuell that he often falleth out with his owne friend But let this passe Thus Scotus concludeth that if the priest entend to doe as the Church doth and reade all the wordes distinctly he doth consecrate though he know not how Frauncis de Mairon an other of maister Hardings doctors sayth that these fiue wordes hic est calix sanguinis mei this is the cup of my bloud work consecration yet again in the same article mouing a doubt of the same matter he answereth thus some say it is so but Scotus sayth nay Marcilius sayth it is probable these are the wordes of consecration Hic est calix sanguinis mei But I will determine nothing in so high a matter And after for a ful declaratioÌ„ that they can not agrée among themselues he sayth Hoc noÌ„ est expressum per canoneÌ„ aut sedem Apostolicam it is not determined neither by the Canon nor by the Apostolicall seate Thomas Aquinas sayth all these are the words of consecration Hic est calix sanguinis mei veteris noui testamenti misterium fidei qui pro vobis pro multis effundetur in remissionem peccatorum this is the cup of my bloud of the new and old testameÌ„t the misterie of fayth which shall be shed for you for many Bonauenture sayth these latter wordes are not of consecration but they doe expresse the qualitie of the thing turned Clingius a late wryter and a chiefe doctor of M. Hardings side sayth the wordes of consecration be these this is my bodye and hic est sanguis meus c. this is my bloud c. When he hath not what to say he turnes it ouer with c. After in the same title he sayth absolutely these are the wordes this is my body and bloud and in them is all the substance of the Masse But againe he sayth in an another place hic est sanguis meus noui testimenti c. this is my bloud of the new testament and so forth and there he sayth all that followeth is the chiefe substaunce of the Masse and that all those wordes are spoken in the person of Christ and so consequently be part of consecration He sayth further that the words of consecratioÌ„ being pronounced by any vnméete person do worke nothing and that it was neuer shewed by any signe or miracle that a lay man might consecrate Yet maister Harding sayth that God shewed a miracle vpon certaine shepheards which sang these wordes and knew not what they ment and they consecrated vnwares Thus maister Harding passeth not so hée may saye somewhat to be at some dissention euen with hys friendes and thus much of this Let the reader examine these places and he shall sée whether maister Hardings worde be a good warrant that in consecration they all be full agréed And sure this great disagréement is so much the more blameable for as much as if they woulde haue followed their supreme head the Pope there had bene no controuersie in this matter For by his censure the very words of the canon in the Masse are the wordes of consecration vsed both by Christ and hys Apostles although none of the Euangelists haue expressed them These are the popes wordes Credimus ergo quod formam verborum sicut in canone reperitur a
B. of Saris. Consecration is in conuerting the Elements to a godly vse as we see in the water of Baptisme Harding The .60 vntruth The consecration of the water in baptisme is farre different from the consecration of the Eucharist Dering Accedat verbum ad elementum sayth Saint Augustine fit sacramentum Let the worde come vnto the element and it is a sacrament Saint Augustine here maketh no difference at all he biddeth not consecrate the one with whisperings the other with open voice as maister Harding biddeth he teacheth no difference of grace in them both as Maister Harding teacheth Likewise Saint Ambrose sayth non aqua omnis sanat sed quae habet gratiam Christi not all water healeth but that which hath the grace of Christ. And againe water healeth if the holy ghost doe come downe and sanctifie it And againe water healeth if the voyce of the father be heard from heauen So this operation of the trinity is the vertue and the consecration of the water This like operation doth make the bread and wine to be our heauenly food as M. Harding must néedes graūt so the consecration of either both is one If he say the wordes of consecration must be pronounced by the minister whereby as by a meane God doth poure his grace vpō vs and ioyneth vs vnto him I confesse it is so and those wordes are these take eate this is my body So in baptisme after our prayers made vnto god we pronounce the words of cōsecration wherby we know that gods mercy doth sanctifie vs and the bloud of his sonne doth washe away oure sinnes and those wordes are these I baptise thée in the name of the father of the sonne and of the holy ghost So we sée thus farre the consecration in either sacrament is one If he make any difference in the wordes for the maner of speaking in that it is sayd this is my body Saint Paule speaketh likewise of baptisme that it is lauacrum regenerationis the washing of our new birth now lay these all togither By the Eucharist we be ioyned vnto Christ kéeping the feast of our pasouer with the vnleauened bread of sinceritie and truth By baptisme we be sanctified and clensed by the washing of water through the worde The Eucharist is sanctified by the heauenly wordes spoken of the minister in the person of our sauiour Christ so the water doth washe away our vncleannesse by being baptised in the name of the father of the sonne and of the holy ghost The Eucharist for the high and dreadfull misterie of the body of Christ by sayth féeding our soules is called the body the water for the heauenlye operation which God worketh in washing away the naturall vncleannesse in which we are borne is called the regeneration And therefore the consecration of them both can not be diuers M. Harding after his maner may a little dasell simple eyes but his conscience doth beare him witnesse that this doctrine is true But here I must confesse that the popish consecrations if maister Harding doe meane of them do differ much the one from the other and both from Christes institution as I haue shewed in the epistle So Maister Iuell speaking of the sacraments of christs Church and saying consecration is lyke in both sayth not vntrue though the iuglings of the antichristian Sinagogue are neuer so diuers The B. of Saris. This is well noted and opened by Saint Augustine Tract in Ioh 80. Harding The .61 vntruth This is not opened by Saint Augustine Dering Maister Harding by like thinketh he is disputing with one of his popish doctors what hoc signifieth in hoc est corpus meum and therefore he asketh what it is Saint Augustine hath opened Sure not this popish consecration For he neuer heard of it but this spirituall chaunge of the elements to be come of creatures ordeyned for the body salues whereby our mindes are healed And thus is your vntruth aunswered The B. of Saris. The worde of fayth which we preach saith Augustine not the worde which we whisper Harding The .62 vntruth Saint Augustine sayth not so Dering Well sayd Anaxagoras Stande-stiffely to this opinion Sure snow is not white What though it séeme so S. August saith it not What if the word be there thrée or foure tymes for fayling Say on still saint Augustine sayth it not Some of your friendes perhaps wil beleue you But my God I thank I am none of those And you that will not be deceyued good christian people hearken Saint Augustine sayth not sayth M. Harding the worde which we preach And to proue this true he alleageth many lines out of the same place in which lines it is not But ò singularem impudentiam Antonie out of doubt was neuer so past shame He sayth Saint Augustine hath not which we preach and thus he alleageth Augustines wordes verbo dei sine dubio vt mundare possit consecratur baptismus if it were no otherwise yet this worde of God must be preached for how else shoulde it be heard and so engraffe fayth But now Saint Augustines wordes are otherwise hoc est verbum fidei quod praedicamus saith he thys is the word of fayth which we do preach with which word doubtlesse baptisme is cōsecrated that it may purifie vs. That which Saint Augustine saith hoc est c. this is the worde of fayth which we preach Maister Harding turneth thus verbo fidei by the worde of fayth What clipping what nipping what altering is this O if maister Harding had such a vauntage how would he turne his phrases How would he sport himself with reperitions of corrupting the fathers Well thou séest this is no vntruth Reade his Reioinder and conferre it with Saint Augustine thou shalt soone discrie his behauiour Here hast thou christian reader to note that Saint Augustine saith the worde doth consecrate non quia dicitur sed quia creditur not bycause it is spoken but bycause it is beleued Therefore according to Saint Augustine this popish consecration is gone they néede not feare that by common vse the wordes should be contemned or vnwares they should work straunge miracles Without fayth they haue no vertue What these wordes be I tolde thée in the .60 vntruth out of S. Ambrose in the Eucharist accipite comedite hoc est corpus meū take eate this is my body In baptisme baptize them in the name of the father and of the sonne and of the holy ghost The B. of Saris. And whereas he sayth further that we haue no maner oblation in our communion he should not himselfe speake manifest vntruth hauing taken vpon him as he sayth to reforme falsched Harding The .63 vnt I say not that you haue no maner of oblation The .64 vnt I say not I haue takē vpō me to reform falshed Dering Here are two vntruthes the one shamelesse the other witlesse First saith he I say not you haue no maner of oblation
go I think to no mortall man to be more strengthned The B. of Saris. It pleaseth M. Hard. to alledge the one end and conceale the other Harding The .76 vntruthe The .10 diuis I conceale not the other Dering If M. Harding doe alleage bothe these ends of the Sacraments that is To ioyne vs vnto God to ioyne vs one with an other then let this be vntrue if he do not then for my pore skil me thinketh he concealeth it The B. of Saris. M. Harding saith the Communion signifieth not the Communicating of many together Harding The .77 vntruthe I say not so Dering Héere M. Harding and M. Stapleton do agrée so iumpe in one vntruthe that it appeareth euidently their religion is either very vniforme or at least they haue bene both instructed in one schole Thus saith M. Harding The Cōmunion is not so called bicause many or as M. Iuel teacheth the whole congregatiō receiued together in one place These words M. Iuel reporteth thus He saith the Cōmunion is not so called of the Communicating of many together This is vntrue saith M. Har. I say not so this is vntruth saith M. Sta. he saith not so I require héere of thée good Christian Reader to viewe the woords well and finde out any fault if thou canst Surely I thinke thou canst finde none like as sure it is M. Iuel did thinke of none But these two pair of Egles eyes what haue they espied Forsothe wher M. Harding saith it is not called the Communion of Communicating togither in one place M. Iuel thus reporteth it it is not called the Communion of Communicating togither and leaueth quite out in one place which maketh all the matter this distinction of Communicating together and Communicating together in one place bicause it is somewhat straunge these men should haue done well to haue proued it by some Doctor Sure M. Harding if he may goe for a Doctor he teacheth vs plainely in an other place that to Communicate together is to Communicate in one place For thus he writeth but that they should Communicate together that is to say in one place that we deny By this Doctor it appeareth that together and in one place is all one and then this can be no vntruth The B. of Saris. How be it in plaine speche it is not the receiuing of the Sacrament that worketh our ioyning with God Harding The .78 vntruthe The worthy receiuing worketh this effect Dering Doth it so Are we not ioyned to God before we eate the Sacrament S. Paule saith Elegit nos in ipso He hath chosen vs in Christ before the foundations of the worlde were laid muche more are we his before we receiue the sacrament Concerning sacraments the same Apostle sayth of Abraham Signum accepit circumcisionis c. After he receiued the signe of Circumcision as the seale of the righteousnesse of y e faith which he had when he was vncircumcised And shall we be taught now that they be no more seales and witnesses but causes of our iustification God kéepe vs from suche spiders that gather poison of so swéete floures And that thou maist take the more héede of this mannes doctrine I must first tell thee that for proofe of it he bringeth not one worde of Scripture but pretendeth the aucthority of Chrysostome and Cyril I would answere the aucthoritie for suche Doctors saue that the labor were long and not necessary For I will declare out of the Scripture that the doctrine is hereticall and thereby thou shalt be satisfied and maist further imagine that these holy Fathers names are too muche abused In this vntruthe of M. Hardings he teacheth two points of Doctrine the one that by and thorow the worthy receiuing of the Sacrament we be ioyned vnto God the other that the Sacraments are not only seales and pledges but also they containe grace Now let vs sée how these two Articles agrée with the worde of God And first whither the receiuing of the Sacrament do ioyne vs vnto God and as M Harding saith putteth also into vs life immortall Our Sauior Christ in the Gospell after S. Iohn doth often tel his Disciples how they are made one with God yet in that holy Gospel as in all other scriptures there is not one worde that telleth vs we be made one with him by receiuing the Sacrament But contrarily by plaine words we be taught what vertue this Sacrament hath that it is onely a signe of that grace which we haue receiued as shall appeare héereafter In the sixthe chapter of Iohn where Christ reproueth the fleshly hearers of his worde and calleth them to a true beliefe in him the Iewes make this answere What signe shewest thou then that we may sée it Our Fathers did eat Manna c. Héere is first shewed what the Iewes thought of Manna not that by it they were ioyned to God or receiued grace but that it was a signe a token and a pledge of their frée election how they were a peculiar people vnto God This Manna being a figure of this Sacrament of the body and bloud of Christ now lest vnto the Churche Christ maketh this aunswere I am the bread of life he that commeth to me shall not hunger and he that beleueth in me shall not thirst for euer By this we learne that to beleue in Christ is to haue euerlasting life and as Manna was a signe to the Israelites so the Communion of the body and blood of Christ is a signe to vs that this promisse shall be made sure It is written in the Prophet and all thy children shall be taught of the Lord of this saying our sauior Christ teacheth vs how we be ioyned vnto him and sayth No man can come to me except the father which sent me draw him And to this ende it is written by the Prophet Ieremie After those dayes sayeth the Lord I will put my law in their inward parts and write it in their hearts and I will be their God and they shalbe my people Of this we learne that if we come vnto Christ the Father must draw vs if we be his people he must be our inward teacher if we be vnited vnto him he must first come and dwell in our hearts whereby it is plaine that we must be first engrafted in Christ before we can worthely receiue his holy Sacramentes Furthermore it foloweth in S. Iohn he that eateth my fleshe and drinketh my bloud dwelleth in me and I in him Therefore we must dwell in him and he in vs or we can not eate his body and drink his bloud And the wicked which dwel not in him can not receiue him Again where our Sauior Christ doeth teache very largely how we be ioyned vnto him and become one with him euen as his Father and he is one he sheweth that this societie doeth come vpon vs of his Fathers frée mercy apprehended by Faithe of his woorde And for
the Moonke was the messenger Now to quit these negatiues with which M. Harding is so well pleased with like negatiues we may well and truly ouerthrow all popish religion taking example of our sauiour Christes doing For he neuer alowed of their ceremonies He neuer celebrated his last supper alone He neuer ministred in one kinde He neuer made any vniuersall bishop He neuer named Transubstantiacion Masse Mattens Euensong Dirige nor Trentals He neuer went a procession with cope crosse or candlesticke He neuer â—ensed Image nor sang Latin seruice He neuer went to shrift nor sat in confession He neuer preached of Purgatorie nor pardons He neuer honored Saintes nor praied for the dead He neuer fasted Friday Uigil Lent nor Aduent He neuer hallowed Churche nor chalice ashes nor palmes candels nor bels He neuer made holy water nor holy bread He neuer wore Rochet nor Tippet He neuer had Crosse nor Myter Corporas nor Portas shepebooke nor Massebooke Frankincense nor Peterpence wax nor flax nor any such trumperie And therefore by these negatiues we may well conclude that M. Hardings religion is not of Christes institution Harding ¶ Vpon this negatiue it liketh you well to dally and bicause say you it offendeth vs you wyll turne it on our side c. And when you haue made all your turnings you doe as muche for vs as if you gaue a Snake for an Adder c. What proofes we haue and how iustlye we confute your Obiections and Replies let our treatises be examined Dering Maister Iuels negatiue is this that they can not prooue by Scripture Doctour Councell or anye example anye one of these articles which are called into controuersie This negatiue misliketh them Therfore sayth M. Iuell we will take the affirmatiue and prooue their religion not to come from Christes Apostles This I trow is not to dallie but plainlye and vnfainedly to séeke 〈◊〉 the truth Yet saith Maister Harding this is a Snake in stede of an Adder in deede it is true the calling of these articles into question hath stoonge that whorish religion euen vnto death And that Aesculapius Adder that hath lurked so long in Rome for all his quicke sight is by this meanes discouered God be praysed for it for euer and euer Wher Maister Harding saith further let this matter be tried by treatisies I feare not such iudges for sure of all mens doinges their owne lyinges dreamings visions oracles coniurings and such deuises haue giuen their religion the greatest ouerthrowe Hardyng ¶ You report my wordes vntruly as your common maner is making men beleue although I sayd all these articles were of light importaunce c. The lightest of them is of weight to drawe you downe to the rufull state of damned soules if for maintenaunce of your priuate opinion you feare not to breake the vnitie of the church Yet as though I had said what you faslie report me to say you procede and scoffingly demauÌ„d whether ye may thinke that our religion encreaseth and vadeth waxeth and waneth as doth the moone Dering These be Maister Hardings woordes in his Preface to his aunswere Why treate you not of matters of more importance then these be of which yet lye in question betwene the church of Rome and the Protestantes As the presence of Christes bodye and bloude in the Sacrament of Iustification of the value of good woorkes of the Sacrifice of the Masse c. Thys obscure manner of speaking maye séeme to make light of these waightye mattters and therefore who so euer should say so of them deserued litle blame But héere Maister Hardings choler is to much inflamed bicause Maiste Iuell noting their inconstancie asketh whether their Religion encreaseth and vadeth waxeth and waneth as doeth the moone And hath he not thinke you good occasion to aske this question Doeth not Maister Harding saye in many of these articles that they be no keyes of their Religion Yet héere he saith if a man denie them when they be receiued they are of value inoughe to dampne him Where is his wit become What is so contrary to it selfe as this What is waxing and waning What is increasing and vading if this be none And what Christian eares can abide this saying that suche trifels as they be of them selues and such filthy whooredomes as they be now made of should condempne vs if we shoulde speake against them He paide not the price of soules that so easily sendeth them away from ther maister vnto Satan The casting awaie such scourings of the Romish vncleannes shall neuer doo it nay it is a witnesse vnto our consciences that we be the children of the highest Hardyng ¶ Concerning the rest of your aunswere wherin you treat certaine coÌ„mon places vtter much spite against the Pope c. against transubstanciatioÌ„ against inuocation of saints against aultars c. Prayer for the dead you condemne and shew no cause why c. I thinke good to let passe and contemne it Dering Now sure well done maister Harding where you can not reade skip ouer but take good héede least in your lâ—aping you hurt your selfe and do your cause no good If men shal vnderstand that you wil not alow the authority of Pope Nicolaus Pope Leo Pope Boniface Pope Sergius and the common Law all which Maister Iuell alledgeth you shall make the Pope that now is beshrew you and so peraduenture you shal get a curse and you shall make all good Christian people mistrust you Of transubstantiation aultars we will say more héereafter Prayer to saintes is now nighe forgotten You aske in the margine why we doe not aunswere the booke of Purgatory In déede now you come to the point This article is very auncient about .1900 yeares a gone Plato spake of it in his booke de animo where this your cleansing place hath his first ground foundation And therfore for our good and sufficient discharge in this matter I aunswere out of the same booke of Plato We meddle not with your booke of purgatory bicause we feare not our shadowes You know that y e yoÌ„g nouice in Philosophy feared not y e three hedded Cerberus the roring of Cocytus the rolling stone of Sisyphus and how shoulde we feare your painted paper walles of Purgatory Christ is our Sauiour God engraffe in vs a desire to be with him and for my part sith purgatory hath no graunt in Gods woord I recken it scarce woorthy aunswer Yet bicause you ar importune somwhat shall be sayd hereafter Hardyng ¶ You haue piked out or set some a worke to pike out for you all the tearmes and woordes vsed in my booke which a good man may iustly bestow in rebuke of vice vpon euill men c. Dering Héere Maister Harding is fallen into a very shamelesse veine of writing and thinketh good at large to excuse his own modesty The woordes in which he séeketh after it are these Thersites Goliath Heathens Publicanes sacramentaries Lucians scoffers rashe presumtuous ignorant péeuishe and
and hys brother yet he would néedes be called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 So M. Harding wyll say néedes he is modest but his woord is no warrant Concerning M. Iuell whether his greatest grace be in scoffing I maruaile that he now doth aske the question Doth not M. Rastall his owne dearlyng confesse he hath a rare gift in writing Though his aucthoritie be otherwise very light yet against M. Harding it is very weightie And why will not M. Harding confesse as much Is he not as well learned as M. Rastall Yes sure but malitia mutauit intellectum malice hath chaunged his vnderstanding Hardyng ¶ If ye seeke to be reuenged on me for that I haue bene so bold as to aunswere your vaine Chalenge and by this Reioynder to confute part of your colourable Reply either hold your peace or speake so as you be not fouÌ„d a lyer if you can For truely by your euill speaking of me you shal but encrease the heape of my felicitie c. Dering Maister Harding would haue the world to thinke we are offended with his writing And in déede we are so and take it as a scourge of God to kéepe vs in humilitie and a manacing against our sinful liues that as oft as we se their bookes we should repent vs of the idolatries wherein we haue beene drowned But he in his impiety runneth desperatly forward and appealeth vnto Gods iudgement with such securitye as appeareth as Flauinius at Thrasimenus or Varro at Cannae went to méete with Hannibal Well may I vse this similitude sith all his doings are nothing else but gentillitie Maister Harding doth accuse vs of euill speaking before we offeÌ„d him Where he saith he is sure he standeth vpon a sure grouÌ„d let him take héede he be not wise in his own conceit Not euery one that saith Lord Lord shall enter into the kingdome of heauen but he that doth the will of God They are not all true worshippers that go vp to Ierusalem but suche onely as woorship in spirite and veritie The Iewes with as great a confidence sayde they had one Father which was God but Christ aunswered they were of their father the Deuil Saint Paule speaketh of the wicked that gloried so of God but hée sayth by such meanes the true God is dishonored The Scribes and the Pharises bragged muche of Moyses but Christ sayd the same Moyses should be their accuser All Israel dyd euer boast they were the children but yet onely in Isaac shal the séede be called Euen so these braggings of Christ séeing he followeth not his Testament shall be his owne confusion But by like he feared this that here I do aunswere and therfore with a vaine occupacion he thought best to preuent it and make a false clayme him selfe to that sayinge of Christ. And to proue it doth alleadge that weary argument of their Romish church which bicause it is so oft alleadged it shall not be amisse to speake somwhat of it to way a litle the difference of the two Churches The Churche of Christ is not bounde to any mans traditions it is not tyed to any certaine place the somâ— hath made vs frée and therfore we are frée in déede Neither in Ierusalem nor in this hill the true worshippers doo worship but in spirite and veritye But the Church of Rome doeth hang vpon olde rotten postes they obserue monethes and dayes that they maye be made frée they runne into cloisters and monckery for to worship and serue God The Church of Christ is not inclosed in any certain cuntry the Apostels are gone into al the world to preach the Gospell who soeuer doth beleue and is baptised shalbe saued But the church of Rome doth condemne them that goe one foote from hir she pronounceth them accursed that wil not drinke of hir adulteries and without hir she saith ther is no helth The Church of Christ wil not heare a strangers voice she will not beleue an angell from heauen that shall preach any other doctrine then Christ hath deliuered the scripture is the rule of hir whole religioÌ„ The church of Rome doth harken after vnwritten verities she giueth credit vnto dreames and visions she saith the Scriptures maye be drawen into diuers senses and will not allowe them but after hir fansied interpretations The church of Christ is buylt vpon the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets Christ him selfe being the heade corner stone she doth receiue with méekenesse the woorde that is ingraffed in hir and doth confesse that it can saue our soules The church of Rome is buylt vppon mens deuises and for insufficiencye of the word adioyneth pilgrimages and pardons sacrifices for quick and dead Masses and purgatoryes Inuocation of Saints worshipping of Images and a thousand such trumperies and will not confesse that all is written which is necessary to saluation The Church of Christ doth acknowledge that by Christ alone she is saued by Christ alone she is deliuered from hir vaine conuersation and from the bondage of sin not by the woorks of righteousnes which she had done but according to his mercy which hath saued hir But the church of Rome maketh merits of hir own hath inuented worâ—es of supererogation hath great confidence in Bulles Reliques Indulgences and salutations of the Pope The church of Christ is the communion of Saints the society and the felowship of these that walke in righteousnes But the church of Rome is a den of théeues her hye Priestes are sorcerers coniurers necromancers murderers vnchast adulterers Sodomits church robbers and such like infamous creatures as is euident by Platina Beâ—no and all other that haue written their liues The church of Christ doth vse the keies aright as she hath receiued them she pardoneth the penitent bindeth vp the sinnes of the disobedient and as she frely hath receiued so frelye she bestoweth them The church of Rome doth binde and lose at aduentures sendeth pardons to persons that she neuer sawe and bicause she hath not receiued fréely she selleth vnreasonable deare and hath made men paye for their sinnes an hundred thousand ounces of golde To conclude the church of Christ is the members of Christ the bodye of one head of which heade she hath receiued hir saluatioÌ„ bicause he hath purchased hir with his blood The church of Rome is the body of Antichrist the members of an Idolatrous harlot that hath gone a whorehunting after diuers louers Therfore the church of Rome is not the church of Christ. And as this church of Rome is in déede the synagogue of the Deuill so she hath not so much as the marks of Christes congregation The right vse of the sacraments which is the badge of Christs church and the reading of scriptures wherby hir steppes are lightened are as farre out of Peters church in Rome now as in the tyme of paganisme ther were out of the capitol as it shall appeare vpon further discussion First if they haue the
other place whatsoeuer is set before you eate it and aske no question for conscience sake These sayings cannot stande with Maister Hardings religion about such questions how the word of God might agrée with it selfe Those busye heades might haue ben better occupied then in mouing such doubtes as a Christian heart adhorreth to remember But if they had ben so occupyed in Gods most holy euangelies as they were in Peter Lumberdes fancies they woulde soone haue turned ouer these winde shaken opinions Now while Maister Hardings friendes shal muse how these sayinges may agrée I will shewe thée godly reader how the Eucharist hath no vse except it be receiued Consecrate while they will crosse round about the bread breath ouer it at their pleasure looke demurely as they can intend what they list except the breade be receiued no maner conueyaunce can bring Christes presence Somewhat for proufe of this maye appeare by the vsage of the pascall Lambe and of Manna Of the lambe nothing might be reserued til the morning what did remaine should be burnt with fire Therfore we may coniecture it should not be lawfull to reserue the sacrament So likewise of Manna nothing might be reserued till morning if ought were had it was turned into wormes and stanke These being both figures of our sacrament the coniecture is not euill to thinke lykewise the Eucharist might not be reserued then the case were plaine it had no vertue but being receiued Howe be it I wyll not force any suche comparisons God doth lighten whom it pleaseth him The scriptures doe other where testifie plentifullye this that we teache First the Eucharist is to vs as the peace offerings among the Iewes which was a sacrifice or thanks giuing offered for peace or prosperitie and as they that made any such offering must doe it before the doore of the Tabernacle of the congregation c so Aarons sonnes sprinckled the bloude about the aultar otherwise it had bene no peace offering So we in the Eucharist must come to the Congregation gyue thankes and prayses vnto God preache out the death of hys sonne Christ and eate and drink of that heauenly mysteries or els it is not the Eucharist And the church naming this sacrament Eucharistia hath well declared that without open thankes-geuing there is no suche sacrament But who can doubt any whyt of thys matter that readeth the woordes of our sauiour Christ reported by S. Iohn or the other Euangelists and S. Paule Labour for the meate sayth Christ that the sonne of man shall giue vnto you He sayth not for the meate which is hanged vp in the Pixe And the people make their aunswere Lord giue vs euermore of this bread Againe Christ sayth The breade which I will giue is my flesh which I will giue for the life of the world Ther is then no benefite where this bread is not giuen and in this chapter it is often repeated that we must eate this flesh or els we haue no lyfe in vs. Yet in all this place nor in any place of scripture any one word is found y â— commendeth either mencioneth this sacrameÌ„t without the vse of it So if we wil apply this .6 chap. of Iohn to the sacrament as M. Harding in anye wyse will doe we sée how there is no grace no vertue in it if it be not vsed Concerning the woordes of this sacrament reported by the other Euangelistes and by saint Paule they are very plain Take and eate thys is my bodye saye they and of the Cup Drinke ye all of this thys is my bloude c. But by M. Hardings doctrine the holye ghost might haue spoken in this sorte Looke all vpon this and worship it this is my body And of the cup Drinke none of you of this yet it is my bloud Such is the sacriledge of that wicked masse in doing to vndoe that our Sauiour hath saide But here I cannot a little wonder at them In their owne inuentions they haue placed in their Masse these words accipite manducate and some thinke they are very requisite to transsubstanciation yet when they vtter them they meane nothing lesse than that any other but them selues should take part They prepare but a litle cake and a draught of wyne to make sporte with They intende not to communicate with other yet they saye alway take and eate A lye is very euill in any maner doing but in the seruice of God it is very detestable God when he will turne their hartes Here we se concerning this sacrament Christ commaunded nothing but that we shoulde in a holy company eate and drinke in remembrauncâ— of his death and passion But how turneth the Pope our sauiours commaundement He careth neither for eating nor drinking but when he goeth forth he setteth vp his sacrament vpon a white horse backe and men of eche syde with tapers and litle belles and so teacheth the horse that he will go to the aultare and there knéele vpon his knées till his Maisters god be taken downe Thus will the Pope teach horses to worship God euen as somtyme the Leuites woulde cary the Arke in a newe carte when they brought it out of the house of Aminadab For neyther haue we any one word to cary about the sacrament neyther had they of the carte And this is a greate misery that hauing no warrant for our Marchandise our candels our sensors our vestiments our oyle boxes our corporasse our porâ—uisse and sixe hundred thousandes suche other yet we make no account of them as though they pleased God If any thing séeme somewhat doubtfull then we turne vs to Doctors to councels to decrees to scholemen and to the holy closet of the Popes owne brest as thoughe Gods worde were not our wisedome and our vnderstanding in the sight of all people But God be thanked for his owne ordinaunces and lawes that are so righteous Now to the next marke that Maister Harding coulde neuer shoote at and this marke hath a great many péeces and such as is not easly discerned which is the greatest so I knowe not certainelye wher at to measure The first péece is this there is no difference betwixt the Priest and the people in the mystery of the sacrifice But what meaneth Maister Harding to finde the marke him selfe and then refuse to shoote at it Would he haue vs thinke this were Maister Iuels marke He saith no such thing Sure M. Harding hath verye straunge artillery His bow is made of slaunders and it will shoote nothing else but lies He can get nothing with cunning therfore he would saue him selfe by facing This stode them in good stede in the disputations at Oxford wher their friends wer moderators but in a booke that is written to all men this shift is shameles Let vs sée what saith M. Iuell of this marke Not one word Why doth Maister Harding reporte it He is disposed to lye But whervpon doth he gather it Forsoth out of Bernard
of the priest and the lay man that vpon the displeasure conceyued we woulde say one to another Let him neuer be in thy Memento If as the Philosopher sayth the voyce of the people be the voyce of nature then it is certaine that sometyme the priestes wyll was to abbridge the commoditie of this common Masse and in his Memento to seclude some from this common benefite so that euen in this poynt Mayster Hardings distinction is a méere cauill Againe concerning this will of the priest I might aske of Mayster Harding what maner of Masses Pope Gregorie the .vii. said y t minded nothing more than sorcery or the priest that poysoned Pope Victor the thirde in the Chalice or such priestes as I haue knowne some in Cambridge that when they haue played all night at dice in the morning being called away to Masse haue sworne a great othe that they would make hast and come againe A man had néede to knowe his condicions well that would ground his Religion vpon the priestes intent Thus it appeareth that neyther by institution nor will of the priest euery Masse is coÌ„mon Concerning the oblation and communion how can they be commoÌ„ when in some of their Masses they haue none at al. First their is no oblation without bread and wine as the cannon of their owne Masse doth commaund and as Biel doth witnesse But in some of their Masses y e vse of wine is forbidden as appeareth by pope Gregorie therefore in some of theyr Masses there is no oblation or sacrifice Then how can that bée common which is not Likewise it is manifest in the communion how can that be made of the priest without bread and wine Nowe is there no excuse remayning why this distinction being false should not be a cauill except Mayster Harding will say him selfe did not knowe so muche Yet if he doe that will not serue For the very nature of a cauill is onely this vt ab euidenter veris res perducatur that the matter may be brought to open falshood And thus much is sayde for the exact discussing of the word so that it is plaine both by the common speach and by due tryall of the very worde that Mayster Harding maketh his first entrye with a cauill The B. of Saris. For where the matter is agreed vpon it is follie to picke a quarrell vppon the worde Harding The 2. vntruth It is not agreed vpon Dering Mayster Harding hath purposed to espie a great many of vntruthes and fearing least they should not amount to their iust number he thinketh good where oportunitie serueth to make of one eyther two or mo For where Mayster Iuell sayth this distinction of Masse is but a cauill bicause the signification of Masse is knowne Mayster Harding here noteth two vntruthes one it is no cauil an other it is not knowne And what néedeth this doubling if through vaine babling he did not think to blind the eies of the simple Who euer would denie both antecedent and argument both where they hang one of another The noting of this vntruth is a good proufe that y e other was a cauill Whether the signification of Masse be knowne or no small proufe will serue let the worlde bée iudge But whye is Mayster Harding so pleased with hys owne distinction that vpon it he will fownd mo vntruthes Forsooth he is a defender of antiquitie and such distinctions are very auncient more than 2000. yeare agone Anaxagoras made such another and stoode stifly in it that snow was not white bicause it was vnderstand two wayes One as it was water in substance so it was blacke another as it was congealed so it was white but such déepe fetches do not sinck in shallow wits Let vs be content with plaine vnderstanding so it shal be knowne that priuate masse is w t the priest alone no man communicating with him snow shal be whyte stil. The B. of Saris. Euery Masse sayth he is common and none priuate If it be so then hath he already concluded fully on our side Hardyng The .3 vntruth I say not so but vvith addicion Dering What addicions you make onelye wrangling excepted I sée not If there be any vntruth in these wordes the fault is your owne take it vnto your selfe Mayster Iuell affirmeth nothing but vpoÌ„ your saying that euery Masse is publike He inferreth if it be so then you haue concluded on his side you are not zealous for the truth that would thus cary away your reader with trifling Were your addicions neuer so good and godly yet Mayster Iuels wordes might stand without misreport of your saying But bicause we be fallen into these addicions marke good reader what maner ones they bée Euerye Masse sayth he is common concerning both oblation communion If it be so then his Masse it selfe must néedes be somwhat else which Mayster Harding I am sure wil not graunt and so vnawares for gréedinesse of an vntruth out of tyme he quite ouerturneth his vntrue religion For the whole substance of his Masse is nothing else but this oblation and communion these be the additions of his Masse oblation communion and all the other vsages are referred vnto it without all which these foure wordes hoc est corpus meum are a perfite Masse as Mayster Harding himselfe and also his owne doctours do confesse In steede of many it shall be sufficient to alleage one Clingius a great doctour of Mayster Hardings writeth thus Essentiale Missae sunt veâ—ba Christi hoc est corpus meuÌ„ hic est sanguis meus c. omnia alia quae circa Missam fiunt vt orationes ceremoniae vestimeâ—ta gesta crucis signaculum c. non sunt Missa sed sunt ad maiestatem ornatum sacramenti ordinata vt cum omni gloriositate hoc officium Missae celebretur The substaunce of the Masse are these wordes of Christ this is my body this is my bloud c. all other things about the Masse as prayers ceremonies vestments gestures crosses and such other are not the Masse but are ordeined for the maiestie and ornaments of the sacrament that the Masse might be sayde with all gloriositie Now thys being true as most of their doctours confesse it is true what a monster will Mayster Harding make of his Masse that teacheth the whole substance of it to be but accideÌ„ts or as he calleth them addicions And thus much if it were true that M. Harding spake not but with addicion But nowe what if he make no such addicion what if he belie him selfe what if his plaine wordes be these euerye Masse is common is it not then a shame for him to say the wordes and then to get an vntruth â–ª or to mocke his reader Denie them againe read the .112 vntruth thou shalt sée these are his verye wordes I say not that euery priuate Masse is common but that euery Masse is common If these be his plaine and
yet these are his owne very wordes Where as in Christes institution concerning this sacrament thrée things are conteyned the sacrament the oblation and the participation wherin consisteth the substance of the Masse they haue quite abrogate the other two and left a bare communion Nowe these being his wordes sure this vntruth is shamelesse The second vntruth is in denying that he sayth he doth reforme falshed and this is it which I sayd is witlesse The B. of Saris. We offer vp vnto God our selues our soules our bodyes and almes for the poore prayses and thankes giuing ▪ c. which the olde fathers say is the sacrifice of the new testament We offer vp as much as Christ commaunded vs to offer Harding The .65 vntruth They say not so The .66 vntruth You offer not vp the bodie and bloud of Christ. Dering Were not maister Hardings behauiour alwayes notable in these vntruthes he might else séeme to passe himselfe For proufe that the olde fathers sayde this spirituall sacrifice was the sacrifice of the new testament Maister Iuell alleageth Tertullian thus The pure sacrifice that Malachie speaketh of that should be offered vp in euery place est predicatio Euāgelii vsque ad finem mundi is the preaching of the Gospel vntil the ende of the worlde Againe that sacrifice is simplex oratio de conscientia pura and a deuout prayer of a pure conscience Then he alleageth Eusebius that y e same sacrifice is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the sacrifice and incence of prayer Last of all he alleageth Ierom expounding the same place dicit orationes sanctorum domino offerendas esse in omni loco The prophet meaneth hereby that the prayers of holye people should be offered vnto God in all places to these places Maister Harding bringeth but his bare nay and aunswereth not one worde but for proufe of his vntruth concludeth thus you should haue done well to haue named these olde fathers and to haue alleaged their owne words for your credit sake who could speak thus shamelessely that had any shame in him Maister Iuell here nameth both Tertullian and Eusebius and quoteth the places where these sayings are to be founde And in the 559. leafe of his Replie reciteth their very wordes Yet sayth M. Harding this is false he should haue alleaged some doctors by like his heade was so full with the number of these vntruthes that he could not sée their names If these thrée doctors séeme to maister Harding to be but fewe or if therefore he could not sée them a little to helpe his eye sight it shall not be tedious to alleage mo Iustinus Martyr sayth these sacrifices of christians are onely perfite and acceptable vnto God preces gratiarum actiones prayers and thankesgiuing And againe the prophets do not promise that the bloudie sacrifices shal be renewed but they promise vs veras ac spirituales oblationes laudis atque gratiarum actionis true and spirituall sacrifices of prayse and thankesgiuing Clemens Alexandrinus sayth speaking of prayer that that is optimum sanctiss sacrificium the best and most holy sacrifice Againe Sacrificium Deo acceptum est corporis eiusque vitiorū seperatio Is est verus re vera dei cultus the sacrifice that God accepteth is to set a part all vice from our bodie that is in déede the verye true worshipping of God Tertullian sayth we doe sacrifice but so as God hath commaunded that is pura prece with a pure prayer Athenagoras an olde writer sayth thus quid ego sacrificia holocausta curem c. what should I care for sacrifice or burnt offerings of which God hath no néede he requireth for him an vnbloudie sacrifice that is that we offer and giue a reasonable soule vnto him These are ynowe for M. Harding to sée or he will sée none be they neuer so many It all shoulde be alleaged that witnesse this onelye to be sacryfice of christian men it would fill a whole volume but if M. Harding can shew but one to proue that the priest offereth vp Christ vnto his father this shall not onely goe for vntrue but we wil all subscribe vnto his religion For this other vntruth that we offer not vp the bodie and bloud of Christ when M. Harding can proue that Christ hath so commaunded vs this shall be vntrue Here marke maister Harding for all his narrow search for vntruthes yet ouerskippeth a couple that M. Stapleton hath espied one of Saint Basil an other of Saint Cyril Beleue them both if thou wilt swim in errors The B. of Saris. But sayth maister Harding we make no mention of the sacrifice◠Harding The .67 vntruth I say not so Dering What meaneth maister Harding by this vntruth Is there any distinction to be brought betwéene oblation and sacrifice He sayth expressely we do not so much as once name the oblation oblation sacrifice differ no more then ensis gladius then a brake and a fearne bush or any two wordes which expresse one thing Then if M. Hard. say we name not the oblation he sayth we name not the sacrifice this he must néedes confesse except he will wrangle about the worde Sure as the common saying is in this vntruth is neither rime nor reason The B. of Saris. He calleth Christes ordinance a bare communion Harding The .68 vntruth Your Communion is not Christes ordinance Dering Before Maister Harding note this vntruth any more I would wish after so many Maister Iuels requestes he should at last bring some scripture or doctor or generall counsell or some example of the primitiue Church to proue it His worde weyeth ouer light in so great a matter For our discharge we doe and say euen as Christ did and sayde and more we dare not bicause that is perfite They make many apishe toyes of their owne neyther can the reuerence of that high mysterie bring them to any obedience The B. of Saris. Euen now maister Harding sayd there were three things in Christes institution consecration oblation participation nowe he sayth the number of communicants is no part of Christes institution thus he falleth out with himselfe Harding The .69 vntruth I fall not out with my selfe Dering What can be more contrarie than to say participation is of Christes institution and againe partakers that is number of communicants are not of Christs institution In the lords cause we will speake as the lord speaketh heauen and earth we call to witnesse whether this be not contrarietie Yet M. Harding and I trow euen onely maister Harding is so bolde to note this for an vntruth But the vntruth is sufficientlye aunswered in that the indifferent reader may sée the wordes The B. of Saris. I may not nowe dissemble the value of maister Hardings argument Christ sayth he ordeyned the sacrament after consecration and oblation done to be receyued and eaten ergo the number of communicants in one place is no
otherwise than the Euangelists reporte his words or else they could not agrée with their Masse this is a sufficient discharge of this vntruthe A good Christian before he sée better aucthoritie will beleue as the Gospell teacheth that we must first take it and eate it before it be Christes body so shall he sone sée the Idolatrie of a Popishe Masse The B. of Saris. If Christe instituted the Sacrament to the intent it should be first consecrate and then receiued of a companie c. Harding The .72 vntruthe This is a very grosse falsifying of my words Dering These are M. Hardings owne wordes in this Diuision Christ ordained y e Sacrament after Consecration done to be receiued eaten Of these words saith M. Iuel as is before alleaged if Christ. c. if I should héere aske of the indifferent Reader wherin is this grosse falsifying sure he could easily espie it But somewhat to helpe the Readers vnderstanding this it is where M. Harding hath to be receiued and eaten M. Iuell saith to be receiued of a companie if this be as it is in déede no fault whereto is this vnseasonable crying out of falsifying But if it shall séeme to be a fault then know that where M. Iuel alleageth M. Hardings owne wordes he printeth them in a distinct letter but this saying which so grieueth M. Harding is in the common letter of M. Iuels words wherby master Harding might haue wel vnderstand had he not bene disposed to wrangle that master Iuel alleaged them not as his expresse words but rather sheweth how he should haue made his saying plaine and this he proueth by authoritie of Bessarion and Gabriel Biel that after Consecration the sacrament be not receiued onely as maister Harding sayth but receiued of a company which word as it must so being expressely written master Harding did directly reason against himselfe The B. of Sarisb The .9 diuision Here vnawares he seemed to confesse that his Masse whatsoeuer substance it bear it is void both of good order and also of congruence Harding The .73 vntruth I confesse no such thing Dering You séeme to confesse it â–ª sayth M. Iuel Whether you doe or no let your words witnesse You say you are not bound to folow Christes example in order and congruence Nowe we may infer Christes order is only good therefore you folow no good order or congruence This is but a single vntruth The B. of Saris. The matter being so weightie and not yet throughly beleued c. Harding The .74 vntruth It hath bene beleued Dering When you proue this sure M. Iuel will subscribe you may make euery word in his booke as vntrue as this For he hath not one worde that soundeth towarde your religion if this may be noted for vntrue to say your Massing worshippings haue neuer bene throughly beleued you may note many moe vntruthes in this Replie For there is not one line that alloweth the Masse Read the next vntruthe The B. of Sarish The olde fathers call that the daily Sacrifice that Christ made once for all vpon the Crosse. Harding The .75 vntruthe The olde fathers call not the Sacrifice of the Crosse the daily Sacrifice Dering M. Iuel doth alleage Aug. secund Luc. serm 28. Ierom. in 1. Co. ca. 5. Germanus in Eccle. rerum theoria Irenae lib. 4. cap. 34. Tertul. aduer Iudaeos Amb. in 1. ad Tim. cap. 2. Examine the aucthorities and sée M. Hardings answere so thou shalt best iudge If I should enter into it it would require a long aunswere and nothing necessary What the Doctors wryte M. Iuel is thought to know as wel as M. Harding First reade and then iudge This is againe the .132 vntruthe And bicause we are againe fallen into mention of this Sacrifice which M. Harding said euen now hath bene throughly beleued let vs examine that vntruthe and trie if M. Harding be found true in his workmanship It hath bene throughly beleued saith he that the Priest doth offer vp to God the body and bloud of Christ vnbloudely in the remembraunce of that one bloudy Sacrifice of Christ. Reade of this in the Epistle the .31 leafe thou shalt haue it fully discussed only in this vntruth bicause the question lieth rather whether it hath bene beleued than whether the saying be true let vs a little consider of Christ him selfe his Apostles whether they haue beleued it First Christ in no one worde did giue vnto his Churche any commission of suche maner sacrifycing Christ saith often I giue vp my soule I Saâ—rifice my selfe no man doth it but I but vnto his Disciples he saith quo ego vado vos non potestis venire Whither I goe ye can not come By which wordes he taketh from them all power to Sacrifice him euen as it was afore tolde by Daniel that after Christ was once offred the Sacrifice and the Oblation should cease Not a word written wherby it may be gathered that we may offer vp Christ. And doth M. Harding thinke that in so weightie a matter as the remission of our sinnes that any thing is required of vs which is not commaunded vs It appeareth then in the time of Christ this was not beleued Did the Apostles beleue it after Christ S. Paule saith in that he died vnto sinne he died but once againe by one Oblation he made his perfite for euer and againe wher is remission of sinne there is no more sacrifice for sinne Then by S. Paule there is nowe no daily sacrifice for sinne except by Christes deathe we will that our sinnes be not forgiuen Againe S. Paule will haue vs folowe Christes example in the administration of Christes supper who teacheth vs of no Oblation for quicke and dead Againe the sacrifice cannot be made without a speciall priesthode but the Apostles doe teache vs that all suche Priesthode is abrogate If at any time the name of Oblation be mentioned in this age it is euer meant spiritually As is plaine Ro. 12. .16 Phil. 2. 1. Peter .2 for the real Sacrifice S. Peter is plain Christ hath caried our sinnes in his body vpon the woode and by his stripes we be healed and the effects of that one Sacrifice once made are purging of the sinnes of the whole world 1. Pe. 2. .3 1. Ioh. 2. 3. Ro. 4. Ephe. 1. eternall redemption Gal. 2. Ephe. 1. Rightuousnesse Ro. 3.4.8 2. Cor. 5. SaÌ„ctificatioÌ„ Eb. 10. Peace Ro. 5. Ioy of the spirite Ro. 4. Gal. 5. Newnesse of life Rom. 6. 1. Co 5. Loue of our neighboure 1. Ioh. 3. Eternall life 1. Ioh. 5. Ro. 6. then neither Christ nor his Apostles euer beleued it for the estate of the primatiue Churche how it beleued M. Harding hath nothing to say but referreth vs to the .xvij. Article of his former booke héere good Reader my labor is wel eased for séeing my Lord of Sarisburie hath answered al that matter who so wil be confirmed in that truthe he can
declaration of this frée mercy he reporteth it oftentimes that we are giuen vnto him of his Father as manifestaui nomen tuum ijs quos dedisti mihi I haue made knowne thy name vnto those which thou hast giuen me and tui erant mihi dedisti eos and omnia quae dedisti mihi a te sunt and serua eos quos dedisti mihi All things that thou hast giuen me are from thée Kéepe them that thou hast giuen me They were thine and thou hast giuen them me And that we should know that to be giuen to Christ is to be ioyned vnto him he addeth vt sint vnum sicut nos that they may be one as we are one This is also proued by all suche places of Scripture as shew that we be saued by grace Thus we sée our ioyning vnto God is first to be giuen vnto Iesus Christe of his Fathers owne good will And this is on Gods behalfe the eternall secrete purpose whereby we be made his The other way whereby we be made his is Faithe of his worde when by inspiration of the holy Ghost we apprehend in Christ the frée loue of his Father and that héereby we be ioyned vnto God it is in like manner often declared by the Scripture Now are you cleane saith Christ through the word which I haue spoken vnto you And in an other place I haue giuen vnto them the woords which thou gauest me and they haue receiued them and haue knowne surely that I came out from thée and haue beléeued that thou hast sent me Likewise Ioh. 16.27 Ioh. 17.14 I haue giuen them thy worde Againe sanctifie them with thy truthe thy worde is the truthe And to the ende we should all know this instruction were oures our Sauior saith further I pray not for these alone but for them also which shall beleue in me through their worde And now for proofe that this is our ioyning vnto God it foloweth that they all may be one as thou O Father art in me and I in thée euen that they may be also one in vs. This manner of ioyning vs vnto God was shewed vnto Iacob in that vision where he saw a ladder reaching from the earthe to heauen and Angels going vp and downe teaching vs that Christ was likewise the ladder by whome we climed vp and were ioyned to his Father This was likewise shewed in the thirde of Mathevve where the Heauens are opened and the holy Ghost descended vpon Christ signifying that he hath reconciled heauen and earth and ioyned vs againe vnto God and we by faith made partakers of that benefite Thus we sée the manner of our ioyning vnto God first in his eternal secrete purpose after apprehended of vs by faithe Now this standing thus that the promise might be certaine vnto all the séede God hath sealed this hope with the body bloud of Christ that we being partakers of those heauenly mysteries might assure our conscience of his eternall mercy that the gates of Hell should no more preuaile against vs. Thus are our Sacraments signes tokens warrantes gages pledges of our saluation and doe not as M. Harding teacheth ioyne vs vnto God but he sayth further they poure into vs life immortall and dothe boldly affirme it yet we may not beleue him without great preiudice to Christ himselfe I tel you plaine saithe M. Harding they put into vs eternall life but Christ saith I know that Gods commaundement is euerlasting life and to put it out of doubt what commaundement he meaneth he saith in an other place this is eternall life that they know thée to be the only very God and whom thou hast sent Iesus Christ. Then faith ioineth vs vnto God faithe putteth in to vs life Not in all Gods word there is one line whereby it may appeare this is wrought by the Sacrament Now resteth the second point to be considered whether the Sacraments containe grace and in déede hinc illae lachrymae Hereof maister Harding complaining came as the common Prouerbe is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Whē he heard y e name of Sacraments he could not but gape after this Popish heresie This is a religious article in the Popes kingdome that Sacraments doe giue grace but what they doe it is sufficiently already declared beside that their names doe sufficiently beare witnesse of their efficacie They be called Testaments or couenaunts which cannot be the thing it selfe but the pledge of our iustification In Baptisme if Christ doe not baptise with fire and with the holy Ghost the water of regeneration doth not auaile Therfore S. Paule saith ye that are baptised into Christ haue put on Christ. By which one sentence all M. Hardings doctrine is ouerthrowne For neither the water ioyneth vs vnto God neither yet giueth vs grace but that is wrought only by our faith in Christ. And therfore S. Paule writeth of Circumcision that Abraham was first iustified and after receiued the signe of Circumcision as this seale of the rightuousnesse of faith which he had whē he was vncircumcised By all this it is manifest that grace is first giuen vs fréely from aboue and then the Sacrament is lefte vnto vs as a warrant that Gods promisse shall be fulfilled Thus we sée that touching the Sacramentes M. Iuel saithe nothing otherwise than the Scripture teacheth and the vntruthe that M. Harding would so faine note is nothing else but his owne heresie And now for as muche as M. Harding hath called vs into so long a discourse of Gods Sacraments I desire of thée good Christian reader to marke indifferently the great difference in this behalf betwene the Christian and the papall Religion thou wilt soone as I doubt not abhorre their great deprauing of Christes institution which in that sinagoge is so miserably rent in pieces that scarce any parte of it is kept inuiolate Christ did institute his supper for this purpose that he might Communicate with his disciples They appoint their Masses that they may receiue alone Christ in his supper was the only offerer they in their Masses will offer as wel as he Christ blessed with giuing thanks they blesse with making Crosses Christ did Consecrate with the preaching of the word of faithe they doo Consecrate with whisperings and breathings Christ said take and eate this is my body they say neither take nor eate yet it is his body Christs Disciples sate downe and eate it they bid vs fall downe and worship it Christ said he would drinke no more of the fruite of the vine they say there is no fruit of the vine at all Christ saithe drinke ye all of this they say drinke no man but the Priest alone Christ saith doe this in my remembraunce that is shew forthe my death vntill I come they of Christes death and passion doe not preache a worde I will prosecute this repugnancie no further It greueth me to remember their opē sacriledge God turne
doth think the people stād in the priests mouth We know he meaneth some spiritual maner of cōmunicating Be his doctrin neuer so wicked yet we do sée what is his vngodly meaning euery childe seeth this can be no vntruthe there can be but one meaning of these woords The B. of Saris. The .19 Diuision Here M. Harding interlaceth other mater of the office of wedlocke Harding The .124 vntruthe It is S. Ierome that interlaceth it it is not I. Dering Marke gentle reader this vntruthe M. Iuel saith M. Harding interlaceth it M. Harding saith no they are S. Ieromes woords He is so farre gone in straunge distinctions he hathe forgotten plaine Englishe what though the woords be S. Ieromes yet this interlacing of them in his treatise is either his owne or else some of his friendes that might helpe out with his booke The B. of Saris. Thus saith M. Harding Erasmus gathereth priuate Masse out of the scriptures Harding The .125 vntruthe I say it not Dering M. Harding can quote no vntruthe but if he either wrangle or make a lie and in this place he dothe bothe His words are these read them who will Thus dothe Erasmus gather priuate or as M. Iuel iesteth single Communion out of the Scriptures If M. Harding denye this he lieth If he say he meaneth not by the Communion the Masse he wrāgleth and reproueth his owne doing of foly For why maketh he this conclusion if it proue not his Masse So what euer he meaneth this vntruthe is a wrangling lie The B. of Saris. The .22 Diuision Maister Harding vseth a straunge kinde of Logicke he pretendeth priuate Masse and concludeth single Communion Harding The .126 vntruthe I pretende not to proue priuate Masse heere principally Dering Héere principally must helpe one vntruthe but bicause M. Iuel doeth not say principally let maister Harding put it in his bosome and then it is no vntruthe He saith nothing else for proofe of this vntruthe but falleth out with maister Iuel for rebuking the slouthfull Cardinals and Priests of Rome How be it he néede not greatly be offended For the Pope hathe prouided well for them as is already shewed Say what we will an accusation may hardly passe against a Cardinall without thrée score and foure witnesses nor against a Deacon without seuen and twenty if they wil kéepe any modesty or come not on the market hill I warrant them for other places they be safe inough The B. of Saris. The .24 Diuision Maister Harding gathereth this conclusion Harding The .127 vntruthe I gather not this conclusion Dering Maister Harding would faine shift off this argument and his poore friend maister Rastell hathe done for him in this behalfe what he can but it will not be For aunswere to this vntruth a long discourse is néedelesse For the simple can not conceiue it and the learned doe sée it well inough All maner of argumentes what so euer the propositions be they may be reduced to the first figure But this can be none otherwise reduced Therefore this is maister Hardings argument and let him neuer deny it For being in the Hypothetical fourme of propositions it may argue a will to deceiue but it can not empaire the credite of his learning This is sooner diminished by denying this argument than by making it What the argument is reade the Replie Fol. 58. The B. of Saris. These examples maister Harding hath brought to proue his Masse Harding The .128 vntruthe I brought them not to proue the Masse directly Dering In the .126 vntruthe he saide he brought not these aucthorities to proue the Masse principally nowe he saithe they proue it not directly Hadde it bene for espying he might haue made many vntruthes of this he might haue sayde they proue not the Masse immediatly orderly especially chiefly onely effectually purposedly and so made many lyes as well as principally and directly and so make of none a double lie But héere by the way we may note that maister Hardings reasons are little better than maister Iuel maketh them when he himselfe dothe so oft say they proue not his purpose The B. of Saris. That it might seeme lawfull for a priest to say priuate Masse he hath brought in example of lay men wemen sicke folke and boyes Harding The .129 vntruthe It is not so I brought them not to proue the Masse Dering Now good reader marke these thrée vntruthes and sée how thou likest them the .126 they proue not the Masse principally the .128 they proue it not directly and this vntruthe they proue it not at all Now to giue him one vntruthe more and make vp a messe sure what so euer M. Iuel say they proue it but a little and therfore M. Hardings answere is worthy little commendations The B. of Saris. The .25 Diuision He defaceth the holy Communion Harding The .130 vntruthe I deface not the Communion but the Geneuian Communion Dering M. Harding hath nowe gotten the habite he can say nothing without a distinction But all auaileth not God haue the praise Maister Iuel meaneth that Communion which is ministred as well at Geneua as in other godly places where the adulterous and Romish sacraments are banished Therefore this is no vntruth it is our open professiō That Communion which M. Harding blameth is the holy Communion of the Lords body and bloud and the effectuall representation of his deathe The B. of Sarisb Christes example in doing and commanndement to doe the same may not be taken for a shew or accident but for the effecte and substaunce of his supper Harding The .131 vntruthe Christes whole example is not of the substaunce of the Sacrament Dering Marke wel M. Iuels words and M. Hardings vntruthes and thou wilt thinke the Cocatrice doth no more infecte eche thing that she breatheth on than maister Harding dothe those words which he would confute Maister Iuel saith Christes example in doing and commaundement to do the same is of the substaunce of the supper And who wil not say that that is necessary which Christ hath bothe done and commaunded to be done Then how is this vntrue Maister Harding putteth in whole and taketh out commandement to doe the same and maketh maister Iuel say thus Christes whole example is of the substance of the supper and in déede this is false For Christ ministred after supper and sitting and with common bread and in an vsual drinking cuppe and in an house which is neither necessary nor al conuenient for our time Thus we sée what these vntruthes are altogether forced with maister Hardings lies sometime he addeth sometime he detracteth that of all these vntruthes we may wel say it stil the number is so great the substaunce cannot be good The B. of Saris. The sacrifice of the crosse is called the daily sacrifice Harding The .132 vntruthe It is not called so as you meane Dering This vntruthe is all one with the .75 and there maister Harding saith simply that the fathers call
not the sacrifice of the crosse the daily sacrifice Here vpon better aduise he reuoketh his absolute assertion and doeth qualifie it with maister Iuels meaning So if maister Harding doe not truely gather maister Iuels meaning vpon a false surmise he hathe made two vntruthes But bicause we are come againe to mention of this Sacrifice I will shew thée what is our Sacrifice for the purging of our sinnes First for thy better instruction thou must learne wherein standeth the controuersie betwixt the Papists and vs. They say they doe daily in their Masse offer vp Christ vnto his father a propitiation for our sinnes We say that Christ hath purged vs from our sinnes and that with the Sacrifice of his owne precious bodie and bloud but that sacrifice Christ himself did once make vpon the Crosse neither can any mortall man offer him any more Now if we can shewe that Christes reall body is no more offered vnto his father then is not only this no vntruthe but all maister Hardings religion is deuelishe and wicked Let vs sée then what the scriptures doe teache vs vntill the time that our sauior Christ did die This Sacrifice is often mentioned that it should be made when he had once died it is neuer mentioned but as already done Before he was conceiued in his mothers wombe the angell said his name should be Iesus For he should saue his people from their sinnes When he was born he was called the saluation which God had prepared before the face of all people When he was Christened Iohn said of him beholde the Lambe of God which taketh away the sinnes of the worlde The Lambe in this place after the Hebrue phrase dothe signifie the sacrifice or the offering And Christ him selfe When I shall be exalted I will draw all vnto my selfe By these and all those other places which are of the Passion of Christ it is manifest that the time was appointed when this sacrifice should be once made But when this sacrifice was done Christ said vpon the crosse consummatum est all was finished and in token that there was no more sacrifice to be made for sinne the baile of the temple did rende from the toppe to the foote Nowe after this sacrifice once finished not one title in the whole scriptures of any propiciatorie sacrifice to come but vpon this one and once made repentaunce must be preached to all the world and forgiuenesse of sinne with this promise annexed that whosoeuer doeth beleue and is Baptised shall be saued Thus we sée from the beginning of our iourney vntill we come to the place which our sauior hath prepared for vs in heauen we haue no sacrifice to passe by but that alone which Christ made vpon the Crosse that alone is called daily bicause it is an euerlasting intercession for vs vnto his father What soeuer Sacrifices the papacie hath inuented they are beside this and they are nothing else but snares which the Deuill hathe laid to entrappe our soules and call vs from the only trust in Christes merites An other proofe that the sacrifice of the Crosse may onely be called daily is well declared in all the wrytings of the Apostles where no one time either priest or altare or sacrifice or oblation is mentioned but onely in a spirituall vnderstanding You be made a spiritual house a holy priesthode to offer vp spirituall sacrifice vnto God saith S. Peter He hathe made vs kings and priestes vnto God euen his Father saith S. Ihon and S. Paule doeth call our bodies a liuing sacrifice holy and acceptable vnto God And againe Christ our passeouer is Sacrificed for vs therefore let vs kéepe the feast not with olde leauen neither in the leauen of malitiousnesse or wickednesse but with the vnleauened bread of sinceritie and truthe And to the Hebrues we haue an altare of which it is not lawfull for them to eate that serue in the tabernacle And againe let vs offer the sacrifice of praise alwayes vnto God that is the fruite of our lippes which confesse his name In diuers other places bothe by the prophets and apostles we be taught that these are the onely Sacrifices left vnto vs in the Newe Testament Then what desperate boldnesse is it for vs to make our selues new sacrifices without the worde of God the instruction of the holy Ghost or any coloure of sufficient aucthoritie I néede not adde how it fighteth directly with the Scriptures They say the priest doeth offer vppe Christ. But Christ neuer saith he is offred vp by any other but by himselfe I doe sanctifie my selfe for them and I doe giue my life for my shéepe And againe I doe giue my life and againe I will take it no man dothe take it from me but I will giue it of mine owne will And Paule saith he that loued me and gaue himselfe for me And to the Hebrues in the beginning of this booke it is written of me that I shold do thy wil O God this same is often shewed in the .5.9 and .10 Chapters to the Hebrues but in al the scripture not one word that euer Christ is offred by other They say he is offred daily but in all the scriptures he is said to be offred but once In that he died saith Paule he died once and to the Hebrues with one oblation he made them perfect for euer And in the same Epistle the vij Chapter Christ is said to be suche a priest as néeded not to make moe sacrifices for sinnes or offer himselfe daily For he did once sanctifie vs. And againe by his owne bloud he entred once into the holy place And againe in the ende of the world he appeared once to put away sinne by the sacrifice of himselfe And againe Christ hath once suffred to take away sinnes And againe hauing made one Sacrifice for sinne he sittes for euer at the right hand of his father And in conclusion the scripture taketh away all other sacrifice and saithe where remission of sinne is there is no more Oblation for sinne Yet wil they néedes haue a daily sacrifice What a miserable religion is that which in matters of the greatest waight hath not one word to vphold it in the scriptures But as the thing it selfe is the sinke of Idolatrie so marke it wel and thou shalt sée how wickedly they vse it Our sacrifice say they is the applying of that sacrifice which Christ made vpon the crosse And hereupon M. Harding doth often say that no Masse is priuate bicause it is made for all the people but examine this by the worde of God and sée how it agreeth The scripture saith the benefites purchased by Christes sacrifice is offred vnto vs by the worde not by the Masse You are borne a newe by the worde of God who liueth and indureth for euer And we haue felowship with God with his sonne Iesus Christ by the worde which is declared
is included the receiuing of the Communion euerie sonday may be noted also by the way that by this authoritie of Fabian men and women made the sacrifice of the alter euen as S. Barnard saith Not onely the priest but also all the faithfull sacrifice do Harding The .157 vntruthe It is not included that they receiue euerie sunday The .158 vntruth Fabian doeth not attribute the making of the sacrifice to men and vvomen The .159 vntruth S. Barnard saith it not Dering This first vntruthe is that though they offred euerie sunday bread and wine yet it foloweth not that they receiued But this Maister Harding sayth onely and besyde gesses hath no sufficient proufe for it In fine thus he resolueth the matter This bread and wine was partly for the priest alone to receiue partly for the cleargie partly for the poore and partely to make holy bread of so this is become a verie beneficiall vntruth vnto Maister Harding it hath not onely encreased his number but it hath brought in an other article of his religion and that is at all a verie venture holy bread Here were good roome for one of Maister Hardings aunsweres this pelfe will not serue you must go séeke better stuffe The second vntruth here brought is this that men and women doe not make this sacrifice Fabians words are these Haec altaris oblatio ab omnibus viris et muâ—eribus fiat let this sacrifice of the alter be made of all men and women These words I trow are meetely plaine but Maister Harding aunswereth thus There is difference betwene an oblation and a sacrifice oblation is it when any thing is offered vnto the Lorde nothing done vnto it or in it A sacrifice is when a thing offred vnto God is by the priest altered by some thing don in it or vnto it for religion sake so the common people made the oblation of the alter but they made not the sacrifice of the alter It were to be wished good christian Reader that these distinctions were barred then we should haue lesse wrangling and fewer vntruths But they say all is well that endes well if by examination this distinction be founde good why should not Maister Harding vse it Theophilacte saith he Chrisostome and Paule him selfe haue so distinguished these words First though they hadde done so yet this were but a meane reason to proue they were in like sort vsed in Fabian The profe of Fabians meaning may not well be shewed but by Fabian him selfe But let vs sée what these Doctours saye on whome Maister Harding will â–ª grounde this distinction Theophilactus wordes are these Inter donum siue munus et hostiam siue victimam si exactam spectes rationem aliquid est discriminis quia victimae vel hostiae sunt per sanguineÌ„ et carnem oblationes vel quae per ignem sacrificantur dona sunt quaecunque alia incruenta et igni carentia Betwene 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is gifts and sacrifices this is the difference that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a sacrifice is an oblation made with fleshe and bloud or by fire 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a gift is that which is offred vnbloudie and without fire Of this place M. Harding doeth conclude that an oblation is a thing offered vnto God without any thing done vnto it but this argument hangeth as losely as any other commonly in M. Hardings booke A gift whereof Theophilacte speaketh is is in Greke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 an oblation whereof M. Harding speaketh is in Gréeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 So his reasoÌ„ hangeth thus A gift is that which without fire or bloud is offred vnto God as an oblation is that which hath nothing done vnto it This argument Christian Reader this is his owne reason neither better nor worse than he hath made it His second authoritie is out of Chrisostome his wordes likewise are these Oblatio erat quicquid extra sacrificium erat that was the oblation what so euer was beside the sacrifice and more than this he saith not now of these words how M. Hard. can frame his auÌ„swere to this authoritie of Fabian doutlesse no man that meaneth plainly can espie This is Chrisostomes meaning y â— dona were all those sacrifices or offerings prescribed saue onely such as were sinne offrings But M. Harding goeth further forâ—eth S. Paule as if of him he had learned his distinction how be it he neuer spake one word of it Yea the places by M. Hard â–ª alleaged do not so much as once name oblation then how doth he make this exacte difference of oblations Surely no authoritie had ben much better than these thrée nothing to the purpose In the meane season by M. Hardings good skil we may chaunge our coÌ„mon vse of speaking say no more burnt offring meate offring peace offring sin offering c. but rather thus burnt sacrifice meate sacrifice peace sacrifice sinne sacrifice so forth A proper distinction méete to interprete Fabian that coÌ„trolleth thus the phrase of the scripture Here foloweth yet an other vntruth that is about these words Non solus sacerdos sacrificat sed etiam totus conuentus fidelium Not only the priest sacrificeth but also all the companie of the faithfull This saith M. Harding is not true in M. Iuels sense For saith he that euery one of the people both men women in their own person do outwardly ministerially coÌ„secrate y e bodie bloud of Christ so offer make the sacrifice of the alter after the order of Melchisedech neither is it signified by the blessed martir S. Fabian neither was it euer before M. Iuels Replie came forth with such impudencie reported Better had it ben for M. Harding more credit for his vntruth if he had rested here y t M.I. named Bernard in stead of Guerricus For this report of M. Iuels meaning is nothing else but impudent folie For who would euer say that M. Iuels meaning is y e men and women sayd Masse such vntruth can be no better reproued than by shewing Maister Hardings proues The B. of Saris. But what if the verie words of these councels where vpon M. Harding hath found the Masse make manifest proofe against his Masse The words be these All secular christian folke be bound to receiue the communion at the least thrice in the yeare This relaxation or priuiledge is graunted onely to the secular christians whereof it foloweth necessarily that all ecclesiasticall persons as Priests Deacons Clerkes and others whatsoeuer of that sort were not excepted but stode still bounde to receiue orderly as they had done before and that was at all times whensoeuer there was any ministration Harding The .160 vntruth These be not the words of the councel The .161 vntruth This is no relaxation or priuiledge The .162 vntruth The ecclesiastical persons were not bound to receiue whensoeuer there was any ministration
could not see that in Chrysostome vvhich Chrysostome hath not Dering What M. Harding séeth only M. Harding knoweth But what a fonde vntruthe héere is quoted that I trow euery mā may witnesse Thus saith M. Iuel M. Harding séeth this is but a slender proofe master Harding saith he can not sée it in Chrysostome In déede that is true who saith it is in Chrysostome He was too well learned to make such lose argumēts I would faine heare of some of M. Hardings friends how he could excuse this vntruthe and what it meaneth The B. of Saris. M. Harding hath deuised a way how two priests saying their Masses in diuers countreis may yet Communicate together in breaking bread Harding The .214 vntruthe I doe not say they can communicate in breaking bread Dering This vntruthe was numbred once before Reade the .107 vntruthe There are M. Hardings plaine woords What he meaneth héere againe to recken this vntruthe saue onely for numbers sake no man I trow knoweth And yet how fondly and with what a blinde distinction he dothe it it shall not be a misse to tell thée He saith héere they doe not breake bread together But saith he they participate of one bread and communicate together be the distaunce betwéene them neuer so great This plain saying he hath in his Reioinder intermingled with a few other woords Read the place Now if maister Harding do thus vnderstand M. Iuel as if he ment that two priestes many miles a sunder might breake the same loafe that imagination is too grose and no wise man wil alow it If he meane any spirituall breaking then his owne words alowe the saying for good then this vntruthe proueth nothing against M. Iuel but reproueth M. Harding either of foly or else of falshoode The B. of Saris. Lay people wemen sicke folkes and boyes are brought in to proue his Masse Harding The .215 vntruthe They are not brought to proue the Masse Dering Maister Harding is very nigh at an ende his number is not yet ful Therfore being enforced to take vntruthes as he may he is lighted on suche a place as he could not light on a worse This vntruthe is reckened .v. times before the .87.101.126.128.129 and now the .215 It had bene requisite to haue ben better that should serue so many turnes The B. of Saris. Heere be brought in a company of petie Doctors all of doubtfull credite Harding The .216 vntruthe They be not of doubtfull credite Dering Now we be at the bottome of these vntruths M. Harding is faine to draw out dregges and all There was inough said before of Amphilochius and his fellowes and some of them M. Harding had quite turned and that he would neither defend them nor condemne them But now necessity doth make him breake his promise rather than he shold lose an vntruth they must be all of good credite againe They that list let them so accompt them The B. of Saris. This matter is made good by visions dreames and fables Harding The .217 vntruthe I proue it not by dreames Dering Héere saith M. Harding this tale of Amphilochius is neither dreame nor fable but it appeared vnto him good aucthoritie Yet he saith before that whether it be a vaine fable or a true story he wil not determine wel let this contrarietie goe Whether it be a fable or no iudge thou Here further as touching maister Hardings Philosophy in so exacte defining of dreames and visions bicause he taketh vpon him to control a better Philosopher than him self And in this word dreame wil haue the force of his vntruthe saying it was a vision and no dreame which S. Basil saw that distinction is more curious than learned for the two Gréeke woords 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is a dreame and a vision doe bothe signifie those things which be true vnlesse he wil say that a dreame dothe signifie more largely then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or somnium and yet if it doe a vision must néedes be a dreame though euery dreame be not a vision so this vntruthe by no meanes can be iustified The B. of Saris. He hath made searche for his Masse at Alexandria in Aegipt at Antioche in Syria at Caesarea in Cappadocia a thousande miles beyonde Chrystendome Harding The .218 vntruthe These cities are not a thousande miles beyond Christendome Dering This vntruthe was not worthe twise numbring Read the 183. vntruthe The B. of Saris. Bicause he had no hope to spede in townes he hathe sought out little churches in the countrey Harding The .219 vntruthe I haue proued that the Masse was celebrated in townes Dering This vntruthe is soone gathered but when M. Harding dothe proue it not only maister Iuel but all other that impugne their superstitious vanities will soone subscribe In the meane season he must not builde vp his vntruthes with suche sayings as we openly maintaine bothe in worde and wryting The B. of Saris. Likewise S. Paule willed one to waite for an other in the holy ministration Harding The .220 vntruthe These words are not ment of the ministration of the Sacrament Dering These words of S. Paule goe very nighe M. Hardings priuate Masse and therfore it behoueth him for his Masses sake to stande stiffely in it that they belong not vnto the ministration of the Lords supper For if they doe belong vnto it then no doubt M. Hardings Masse is a sinke of iniquitie that is so contrary vnto S. Paules woords Now for better discussing of this bicause in trying it this priuate Masse shall be better knowne let vs examine S. Paules woordes Thus he saithe Wherfore my brethren when ye come together to eate tary one for an other This saith M. Harding is to be vnderstand of certaine Churche feastes which they had called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and not of the Communion and as though this were not said with shame inoughe he saith in an other place that in that chapter S. Paule dothe not rebuke them for the manner of ministring this Sacrament but for their abusing of their church feasts Now for proofe of this interpretation he onely alleageth the bare names of Chrysostome and Theodoretus and this is al he can bring Read Reioinder fol. 306. Now let vs sée againe what on the other side may be said to proue that S. Paule meaneth of the ministration of the Sacrament And this we may sée bothe by the testimonie of all the old Doctors and most vndoubtedly by examination of the place it selfe Athanasius applieth all that place to the Communion in plaine woords Occumenius saith only the Lords supper is there spoken of and vpon this place inuicem expectate tary one for an other Thus he writeth Itaque Quamobrem Ne indigne corpus domini sanguinem participare probemini Therefore saith the Apostle Wherefore Least you should be proued to participate the Lordes body and bloud vnworthely By this Doctor he receiueth vnworthily that
in the congregation receiueth alone Theophylacte a later wryter vpon the same place saith Why should we pray our selues Quia haudquaquam meritò id mysterium sumunt multi bicause many do receiue that mysterie nothing worthely By all these Doctors this place is ment of the Communion S. Ambrose saith It any man be impacient domi terreno pane pascatur Let him eate earthly bread at home And againe we come to gether vt multorum oblatio simul celebretur that the Oblation of many might be made together But S. Ambrose calleth not prophane meats suche as their common feasts were either heauenly bread or our oblation S. Chrysostome saith qui hoc non faciunt indigne communicant they that tary not one for an other doe communicate vnworthily And héere againe we sée this Doctors minde of priuate Masse or as M. Harding wil haue it of the priestes sole receiuing Beda saith likewise alleaging S. Augustine Ad Ianuar. Epist. 1. that this which the Apostle writeth in this place is ment of the Communion S. Ierome also dothe so enterprete it Read all these vpon the xj chapter of the first Epistle to the Corinthians Of the same minde are also Augustine Basil Gregorius Romanus And if thou rest vpon the aucthoritie of men examine all the olde Doctors that haue written vpon the same place not them only but suche as are of yonger age as Thomas Scotus Lyra Hugo gloss ordinaria and suche other They all agrée this saying of S. Paule tary one for an other is ment of the Communion Dionysius Carthusianus on the same place speaketh very plaine when ye come together to eate saith S. Paule Panem coelestem saith Dionysius the heaueÌ„ly bread videlicet corpus Domini that is to say the body of the Lord. And Nicholas of Gorram vpon these woordes tary one for an other wryteth thus Docet modum in hora communionis ordinate accedendo he teacheth howe to come orderly in the time of Communion What plainer aucthoritie can there be than these Who séeth not that all antiquitie haue vnderstande S. Paules words of the Communion If thou search them thine eyes shall be thy witnesse Yet saithe maister Harding as he were priuiledged without blame or discredite to speake what he would that Martyr Caluine Cranmer and suche other haue deceiued maister Iuel but it is wonderfull to sée howe he speaketh against the truthe the Lord knoweth whether against his owne conscience Read the Replie Fol. 94. thou shalt further sée â–ª how in the Communion the people came togither But as touching this place bicause the spirite of God is not tied to any man or age we will leaue our witnesses and examine the place First S. Paule blameth them bicause they come togither not with profite but with hurt And then teaching how they ought to come togither and in what sorte to haue their méetings he teacheth them by the example of our sauior Christ and his doctrine saying â–ª that which I haue receiued of the Lord that I haue deliuered vnto you that Iesus Christ in y e same night y t he was betrayed tooke bread c. making a full description of the Lords supper whereunto be adioyneth for this cause many of you are weak c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 For this cause which is the vnorderly receiuing the communion Yet saith M. Harding it is ment of their feastes After this it dothe folow in Paule Wherfore my brethren when you come togither to eate tary one for an other Now if this be not yet plaine inough that he meaneth of the Sacrament then looke what foloweth an vndoubted proofe of the whole matter Least saith S. Paule you come togither to your condemnation Is this at any time pronounced of any manner eating but of the vnworthy eating of that blessed sacrament Yet for the priuate Masse sake this plaine scripture must be denyed and impudently wrested into a straunge sense And marke héere how maister Harding would haue S. Paule reason the woordes before are plaine of the Lordes supper Of those words S. Paule concludeth wherefore my brethren c. Then by maister Hardings meaning S. Paule should reason thus A man must prepare him selfe to receiue the Communion Ergo they must tary one for an other at their common feastes such lose arguments the spirite of truth doth not vtter But suche is M. Hardings fashion he dothe not consider how he wresteth Gods scripture while he thus defendeth his vngodly Masse The B. of Saris. The like decrees are found vnder the names of Calixtus Anacletus Martinus Hyllarius and others by which it is certain that the whole church then receiued togither Harding The .221 vntruthe It is not certaine by those decrees Dering Sée the .151 vntruthe It is the same in effecte that this is But let vs sée héere also how truely M. Harding speaketh It doeth not appeare by these decrées saith he that all receiued togither this shall be best tried by the words of the Decrées Calixtus saith thus When consecration is done let all communicate which will not be excluded out of the Churche Anacletus hath the very selfe same woords but how it cometh to passe let the Decretal epistles sée that haue this agréement very often and yet it is very straunge that diuers menne should speake the same woordes Hylarius saythe if thy sinnes be not so great that thou must be excommunicate thou must not seperate thy selfe from the body and bloude of the Lorde Martinus sayth If any man heare the scriptures readen and of a superstitious minde doe thinke he should not Communicate sette him be excommunicate now iudge whether these decrées teach that the whole church should receiue together M. Harding can answere nothing but bringeth two distinctions one olde one which we had before in the .151 vntruthe an other he maketh more to answere Pope Hilarie and that is this where Hilarie saith If he be not excommunicate let him not abstaine from the sacrament We may abstaine saith M. Harding sacramentally though not spiritually If these distinctions may be alowed ther is no aucthoritie so good but let M. Harding slip and he wil answer it But S. Paule saith take héede y t no man spoile you through Philosophy and vaine deceit The B. of Sarisb Chrysostome saith we are all of one worthinesse to receiue the mysteries Harding The .222 vntruthe He saith not so Dering These are Chrysostomes words Est autem vbi nihil differt sacerdos a subdito vt quaÌ„do fruendum est horrendis mysterijs Similiter enim omnes vt illa percipiamê° digni habemur there is a time saith he when the priest dothe differ nothing from the lay man as when they must enioy the dreadful mysteries For we are al accompted of like worthinesse to receiue them And that we should not doubt of his meaning he maketh afterward along discourse to proue this same Yet saith master Harding it is false it is vntrue Chrysostome saith