saieth he how without Idolatrie earth may be adored without Idolatrie Christes footestoole may be adored For he tooke earth of earth because flesh is of earth and of Maries flesh he tooke flesh Et quia in ipsa carne hic ambulauit et ipsam carnem nobis manducandam c. And because he walked here in the same flesh and gaue to vs the same flesh to eate for our saluation and no man eateth that flesh but first he adoreth it we haue found how such a footestoole of our Lordes may be adored and not onely we sinne not in adoring it but we sinne in not adoring it Sée now how properly Fulk answereth hereunto Augustine in deede alloweth the adoration of the body of Christ whereof that is a Sacrament but neither can you proue out of that place that he would haue the Sacrament honored nor that the Sacrament is the very body of Christ As though the same flesh which he tooke of the Virgin Marie and in which he walked is not his very body for the same saith he we eate and we adore it before we eate bowing and prostrating our selues euen to euerie particulare holy hoste as now in the Catholike Churches you know and as S. Augustine witnesseth of his time For it foloweth in most manifest wordes Et ad terram quamlibet cum te inclinas atque prosternis non quasi terram intuearis And when thou doest bow and prostrate thy selfe vnto any earth do not consider as it were bare earth Sed illuÌ„ SanctuÌ„ but that holye one whose footestoole it is that thou adorest Et cum adoras illum ne cogitatione remaneas in carne Also when thou adorest him let not thy thought rest in flesh So as they that thought the same an hard saying Vnles a man eate my flesh Ioan. 6. he shall not haue euerlasting life Acceperunt illud stultè they tooke it folishly they thought it carnally and imagined that our Lord would cut off certaine pieces from his body and geue to them Whereas they should haue said to them selues Non sine causa dicit hoc c. He saith not this without cause but because some hidden Sacrament is therein For so he instructed the twelue that did sticke vnto him when the other had for misliking that saying plaide the Apostates Vnderstand spiritually that which I spoke You shall not eate this Body which you see and drinke that bloud which they shal shedde that shall crucifie me that is you shall not eate it drinke it in such forme so as these others imagined I commended vnto you in those words some Sacrament that is such a thing as beeing spiritually vnderstoode will giue you life Although needes it must be visibly celebrated by the visible formes of bread and wine yet it must be inuisibly vnderstood to be not the thing which is séene in the celebration but which is not séene to wit my very body and bloud my very flesh taken of the Virgin In so much that yong children Infants in S. Augustines time at celebrations of the Sacramentes August de Trin. lib. 3. ca. 10. beeing tolde with most graue authoritie whose body and bloud it is will thinke nothing els but our Lord verily to haue appeared in that forme to the eyes of men and that liquor verily to haue flowed out of suche a side beeing striken if they neuer learne by their owne or others experience as striking it and yet no bloud flowe out of it and neuer see that forme of things but at Celebrations of the Sacramentes when it is offered to God and ministred to the receauers because they know not that which is sette on the Altar and after the holy Canon is consumed whence or howe it is made by consecration like as no man knoweth howe the Angels made or assumpted those cloudes and fires to signifie that which they did announce though the Lorde or the holy Ghost was shewed by those corporal formes And therefore those children would imagine that Christ appeared here and suffered in no other forme hearing that this in the Sacrament is his body and his bloud which was shedde for vs. Nowe commeth Fulke and gathereth cleane contrarie to D. Allen as if S. Augustine saide Pur. 309. that these children would imagine nothing of the presence of Christ in the Sacrament whereas he saith playnely that hearing thus his presence in the Sacrament and that in such sort that it is his bloud whiche was shed they would imagine of no other forme of his appearing suffering signifying as playnely that they néeded onely to be instructed of his other forme and not of any difference at all otherwise betwéene him selfe in his appearing and suffering and him selfe in this Sacrament The next Doctor may be Iustinus Martyr of whose wordes you gather agaynst Transubstantiation thus Ar. 60. Here he playnely affirmeth that the substance of â—he Sacrament is turned into the nourishment of our bodies Therefore it remayneth still after consecration That will appeare by his owne words which béeing truely translated are these in his seconde Apologie for the Christians to the Heathen Emperour Antonius Pius This meate with vs is called Eucharistia To the which none is admitted but suche as beleeueth our doctrine to be true and is washed with the Lauer for remission of sinnes and to regeneraration and so beleeueth as Christ hath taught And why suche reuerence For we take not these as the common bread and a common cuppe but euen as our Sauiour Iesus Christ beeing through Gods worde incarnate had fleshe and bloud for our saluation Sic etiam per verbum precationis quod ab ipso est sacratam alimoniam quae mutata nutrit nostras carnes sanguinem illius incarnati Iesu carnem sanguinem esse didicimus So we haue learned in the Gospelles that the meate which beeing chaunged nourisheth our fleshes and bloud being consecrated through his worde of prayer is the flesh and bloud of that Iesus incarnate He saith not here that the substance of the Sacrament is turned into the nourishment of our bodies as you pretend but cleane against you he sheweth that it is not absurd bread and wine to be turned into the flesh bloud of Christ seing that euery day vsually they be turned by nature into oure fleshe and bloud when we take them at diner and supper for our nourishment and that to be done by the diuine worde séeing that by Gods worde hée tooke the same fleshe and bloud of the Virgine Marie Ar. 59. You gather likewise of Ireneus his wordes and say Here you see plainely that Ireneus affirmeth the Sacrament after the Consecration to consist of the earthly substance of bread He doth not so affirme Hée there treateth against the olde Heretikes who said Iren. li. 4. cap. 34. all these bodilie creatures yea and our owne bodies also not to be of Gods making who is the Father of Christ oure Lord but of another God whome
they call the Creator counted him an yll one and so likewise all his workes to be euil and our bodies not to ryse againe But this cannot stande with the Eucharist sayth Ireneus Et li. 4. c. 32 li. 5. séeing there to make an oblation to the father the Creators creatures that is bread and wine are taken and made the body and bloud of Christ and our fleshe is nourished to incorruption of the same body and bloud But oure doctrine sayth he is consonant to the Eucharist in the oblation Offerimus enim ei quae sunt eius for holding Christes father to be the Creator we offer to him the thinges that are his whereas the Heretikes cupidum alieni ostendunt eum doe make him gredy of anothers for that he hath commaunded an oblation to bée made to him of the Creators Creatures him selfe not béeing the Creator Et Eucharistia rursus confirmat nostram sententiam and againe the Eucharist in the receiuing coÌ„firmeth our doctrine of the resurrection congruenter communicationem vnitatem praedicantes carnis spiritus considering that agreable to it wee teach ioyning and vnion of flesh and spirite quemadmodum enim qui est a terra panis praecipiens vocationem dei â—am non communis panis est sed Eucharistia ex duabus rebus constans terrena caelesti sic corpora nostra percipientia Eucharistiam iam non sunt corruptibilia spem resurrectionis habentia For like as the bread which is of earth receiuing Gods inuocation that is the wordes of Consecration now is not common bread as in substance also it was before but Eucharistia consisting of two thinges one earthly which before he called carnem the flesh of Christ vnder the forme of earthly bread as also S. Augustine aboue page calleth it earth both in that forme and also in his owne forme the other heauenly which before he called spiritum because it is the Godhead so also our bodies receiuing the Eucharist now are not corruptible hauing hope of resurrection and therfore now consisting as it were of two things so as the Eucharist doth earthly and heauenly flesh and spirite Which his comparison is very excellent yet as all comparisons and similitules vnlike in some things because the heauenly thing is in the Eucharist in re in déede in our bodies onely in spe in hope And there it is a substance to wit the Godhead here but a qualitie to wit the glory of the resurrection Againe the earthly thing there to wit Christes flesh is vnder the forme of the former coÌ„mon bread without the substance of the same here the earthly thing to wit our flesh after receiuing is vnder the forme of the former corruptible bodies with the substance yea and also with the corruptibilitie of the same bodies The likenes for which he made the comparison is betwéene the two receiuings and the operations of the two things receiued For the bread receiueth and our bodies receiue though againe differently And the words of consecration which the bread receiueth worketh marueilously and the Eucharist which our bodies receiue worketh marueilously though againe differently as I haue said Your last Doctor is Theodoret Whose words you say be directly against Transubstantiation If they were so Pur. 307. Theod. in poly mor. dial 2. it were nothing to the matter in it selfe as I tolde you in the beginning of this Chapter and specially this béeing suche a matter as some auncient Father all yet agréeing vniuersally vpon the Reall presence might be ignorant of considering that some late scholemen also after the Church had declared for transubstantiation of the bread thought notwithstanding that they might holde some part of the breads substance to remayne either the matter as it doth in all substantiall transmutations of nature or els the substantiall forme vntill this last Councel at Trent declared therfore further that the Church meaneth by Transubstantiation the turning of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body and the whole substance of the wine into the substaÌ„ce of the bloud of Christ Sess 13. ca. 4. But because I there saide that your Apostasie hath no patron at all among the old Doctors in no article so inexcusable it is both of you and of your folowers and that remembring well at the same time this place of Theodoret you shall heare what I can say thereunto although the Lutherans might better alleage it then you First the Catholike asketh Mystica Symbola quae deo a dei Sacerdotibus offeruntur quorumnam dicis esse Symbola The mysticall likenesses which Gods Pristes do offer to God that is the body and bloud of Christ vnder the formes of bread and wine Whose likenesses be they The Eutychian Heretike answereth The likenesses of the bodie and bloud of our Lord in their owne formes Thereupon the Catholike inferreth Ergo our Lords bodie in his owne forme is yet also a true bodie and not turned into the nature of Diuinitie though filled with Diuine glorie Oportet enim imaginis esse exemplar archetypum for an image must haue a paterne that is The Heretike there thinketh that the example of these misteries maketh rather for him and saieth Nay rather As these likenesses of our Lordes body and bloud Alia quidem sunt are one thing before the Priestes Inuocation to wit bread and wine but after the Inuocation are turned and be made other things to wit Christes bodie and Christes bloud So also our Lordes body after his assumption is turned into the diuine substance being therefore extant no more in his owne forme The Catholike answereth saying Nay you are caught in your owne nette Neque enim signa c. For the mysticall signes do not after consecration depart to sense as you teach of Christes body after his ascention from their nature For they abide to sense in their former substance and figure and forme and may be seene and felt as before IntelliguÌ„tur autem ea esse quae facta sunt creduntur But to vnderstanding though not to sense and to faith they be the things which they are made adorantur vt quae illa sint quae creduntur and they be adored by inclination and prostration as we heard afore out of S. Augustine because Fulke sayth here Not by any knocking or kneeling as being in deede the things which they are beleued Thus it is in the Mysteries béeing liknesses or an image Therefore the veritie in like maner saith he that is our Lords body in heauen habet priorem quidem formam c. Hath pardie the former forme and figure and circumscription and to say all at once the bodies substance though it be after the Resurrection made immortall and incorruptible and sitting at Gods right hande and adored of all creatures Meaning as you sée by substance of the bread and substance of the body all that is externall as figure forme circumscription c. Which we in Englishe do by a like
vnproperly because he also saith our bodies by mortification to be made a liuing Sacrifice Rom. 12. To knowe what is properly or vnproperly called this or that you should sée to the natures of the things in them selues And then séeing in Christes death open separation of his body from his bloud and in Consecration mysticall separation of them because the words do worke that which they signifie you should say in both those Christes body to be properly a Sacrifice as I told you likewise before cap. 6. pag. 47. but in perpetuall virginitie and other mortification because there is no such separation of our substantial partes but onely of our affections from vs they be called Sacrifices not properly but onely by a metaphore and similitude Well then what obiections haue you now against this Priesthood and Sacrifice of the Fathers and ours Either that it is none at all or that it is not a Sacrifice in Christes body as S. Augustine said First Out of doubt Pur. 294.295 if the bringing foorth of bread and wine had bene anye thing parteining to the Priesthood of Melchisedech the Apostle Heb. 7. would not haue omitted to haue compared it with Christ But the Apostle comparing Melchisedech with Christe in all thinges in whiche he was comparable neuer teacheth it as any part of his Priesthood If it were no part of his Priesthood what was it then It is playne by the text that Melchisedech beeing both a king and a Priest as a king liberally enterteined Abraham and his armie and as a Priest blessed him The text in our vulgar Latine translation is this Proferens panem vinum erat enim Sacerdos Dei Altissimi In your vulgar English translation this He brought foorth bread wine For he was the Priest of the most highest God And in the Hebrew the poynting declareth that also the Rabbins thēselues take it in the same sort as also the very words do signifie specially standing in such order And all our Fathers do agrée Cyp. ep 63. S. Cyprian shall suffice for all who declareth the order of Melchisedech De sacrificio illo venire to come of that Sacrifice not of euery Sacrifice but of that Sacrifice And more distinctly to descende of these thrée thinges quod Melchisedech Sacerdos Dei summi fuit that he was not a common Priest but the Priest of the highest God as S. Iohn Baptists preeminence among al the Prophets is signified by this word Propheta altissimi the prophet of the highest Luc. 1. quod panē vinū obtulit hauing said afore protulit which two you thinke cannot stand together that he offered not as other Priests but bread and wine Quod Abraham benedixit that he blessed not euery body but Abraham the father of al the faithfull of Christ And in déede who is so blinde not to sée the corresspondence in Christ but you onely that are not Abrahams children We Catholikes his children in faith and souldiers in confession of the same do sée playnly before our eyes our true Melchisedech as first by him selfe at his last Supper so stil by his ministers to bring forth bread and wine and thereof as our High Priest to offer for vs this most acceptable Sacrifice and as our king of kings who with so few loaues fed many thousands to prepare for vs this most Royal feast which we can neuer inough admire Mat. 14. 15. so singularly by this blessing both God and vs that the sacrifice and feast it selfe is named Benedictio and Eucharistia Blessing and Thankesgiuing Which S. Cyprian doth there prosecute very swéetely saying For who is more the Priest of the highest God then our Lord Iesus Christ who offered Sacrifice to God the Father and offered the same against those Aquarij who offered water in the Chalice and not wine which Melchisedeth had offered that is bread and wine suum corpus sanguinem his owne body perdie and bloud Also that blessing going afore about Abraham ad nostrum populum pertinebat belonged to our people saith he as a Bishop minister of the true Melchisedech To * The end of bringing foorth vvas to blesse as also S. Augustine said aboue the end therefore that in Genesis the blessing about Abraham might by Melchisedech the Priest be duely celebrated there goeth afore an Image of Christes sacrifice an image I say consisting in bread and wine c. Where is now your argumēt ab authoritate Heb. 7. negatiuè with your out of doubt contrarie to your owne Logike here cap. 8. pag. 134. For besides all this I aske you whether Melchisedeth were a Priest without all sacrifice at all If you say yea your Diuinity is contrary to Heb. 8. For euery high Priest is ordeined to offer giftes and sacrifices Note Wherefore it is necessary hunc habere aliquid quod offerat this Priest also to haue somwhat to offer If you say he had some sacrifice tell vs I pray you how he was comparable to Christ in his Priesthood vnlesse he were also in his Sacrifice considering that his Priesthood consisted in his Sacrifice And so you sée that he was comparable to Christ in some thing to wit in his Sacrifice supposing also that it was not the sacrifice of bread wine in which the Apostle compareth them not What a blindnes is this in you not to sée Melchisedech in his bread and wine so expresly mentioned to be comparable vnto Christ whereas by the Apostle also the very omitting of his father and mother and genealogie is in Genesis a shadowing of Christ séeing also bread and wine so notably vsed in the world by the institution of Christ Such is either your ignorance in the Scriptures or also peruersenes against your owne knowledge Your second argument may be where you take on like Caiphas Mat. 26. and say it is a blasphemie Pur. 298.299 c. for the Fathers and vs to say that we haue the Priesthood after the order of Melchisedech confirmed vnto vs by oth Psal 109. For then you saye we must be Christ him selfe with his eternall diuinitie and euerlasting natiuitie and sitting on the right hand Why syr doth not the Scripture likewise say that there is one Baptizer Ioan. 1. Mat. 3. Hic est qui baptisat and he such a one as vpon whom the holy Ghost cōmeth and abideth and to whom the Father saith This is my naturall sonne Must we then be said to blaspheme VVhat a doctor Fulke is and take al that to our selues if we say that we are baptizers You are a great Doctor forsooth so to argue No syr we are baptizers and priests Aug. de ci li. 17. c. 17. but as his ministers we offer Sub Sacerdote Christo quod protulit Melchisedech Vnder Christ the Priest saith S. Augustine and therfore he singulerly is the one baptizer and the one priest So were not all the rest in the time of the olde Testament the ministers of
Aaron but Aaron him selfe was Priest only in his owne time and after him euery one in his time was priest aswel as he and therefore in that law were many Priests So that the old Testament was like to England since the Conquest hauing successiuely many kings But the new Testament is like to England during the time of one king who being but one yet hath many ministers as one might say so many ministeriall kings Your third argument The Apostle to the Hebrues teacheth vs cap. 10. Pur. 289.201.45.451 that Christ offering but one sacrifice for our sinnes that but once cap. 9. hath made perfect for euer those that are sanctified that our sinnes are taken away by that Sacrifice and therfore there is no more sacrifice for sinnes left Do you vnderstand the words that you alleage Do you know what he meaneth by those that are sanctified by their making perfect by Sacrifice for sinne Verely you do not as by by it will appeare The scope of that Epistle is to exhorte the Hebrewes that is the Christian Iewes who were sore assaulted of the other Iewes partly with obiections partlye with persecutions to perseuer in the faith of Christ He doth therfore tell them that in the old Testamēt there was not Remission of sinnes but continuall commemoration of them Heb. 10. But now that Christ hath offered him selfe vpō the Crosse Vna oblatione cōsummauit in sempiternum by that one oblatiō he hath made perfect for euer sanctificatos the sanctified Heb. 10. that is 1. Cor. 6 the baptized So that of their former sins there is now no more remēbrance Iere. 21· therfore no more any offering for the same Heb. 10. but if they dye they go straight to heauen So mightily and so graciously doth that one oblation work in baptisme But what if after baptisme they sinne againe For that S. Paule there doth not at the least The true meaning of the Epistle to the Heb. directely tell any remedie because his purpose there was no more but to exhorte the standing to perseuerance and therefore he doth rather terrifie them saying If they fall againe Iam non relinquitur pro peccatis hostia now is not leaste Sacrifice for sinnes that is to say Christes death will not worke with them in another baptisme This he telleth them but remedie he doth tell them none But we by his other Epistles by the other Scriptures and by Tradition of the Church do tell such also against the Nouations that the same one oblation of Christ hath prepared for them also a remedie though not another baptisme yet the Sacrament of Penance We magnifie it yet moreouer and say that it hath also prepared many other Sacraments besydes these to other singuler effectes and in one of these Sacramentes a Sacrifice also in which it worketh to sundrie purposes By this appeareth I say your ignorance in things which yet you feare not to affirme as that the Catholikes should saye Christ hath not made them that are sanctified Pur. 451. perfect by a Sacrifice once offered for all for the greatest parte is lefte to the Masse As though when one commeth to vs to be baptized we diuided the remission of his sinnes betwéene Baptisme and the Masse This is your blindnesse to think that to be against the honor of this one Priest and of his one Sacrifice which is highly for it to wit to haue vnder him many ministers and many ministeries as it were cōduites to deriue his purchase and redemption to his people If we ascribed ought to any man or to any thing but from that Priest and from that Sacrifice then you might well exclayme against vs. And we in the meane time worthily exclaime against you for Apostating from the ministerial Priesthood the mysticall sacrifice and gracious Sacraments which he by his death purchased and left to his Spouse the Church our mother for our saluation and she hath kept them to this day deinceps and will kéepe them as S. Augustine said hereafter euen to the ende at what time your vile tongue shall reape as now it soweth Now after your Scriptures let vs heare your Doctors against this Sacrifice to proue that there is none such or at the least not consisting in Christes body Pur. 316.292 That Augustine by this Sacrifice meaneth not the body of Christ is manifest in his booke De fide ad Petrum Diac. cap. 19. Because there he calleth it Sacrificium panis vini the Sacrifice of bread and wine The same writeth being Fulgentius and not Augustine in the very like place as you may sée here cap. 6. pag. 63. and calleth it Sacrificium Corporis Sanguinis Christi The Sacrifice of the body and bloud of Christ By the firste name for the matter by the seconde for the hoste But he sayth further you obiecte that In isto Sacrificio gratiarum actio atque commemoratio est carnis Christi quam pro nobis obtulit sanguinis quem pro nobis effudit In this sacrifice is Thankesgiuinge and commemoration of the fleshe of Christ whiche he offered for vs vppon the Crosse and of his bloud whiche hee shedde for vs. But what a commemoration In illis Sacrificijs quid nobis esset donandum figuratè significabatur In hoc autem Sacrificio quid nobis iam donatum sit euidenter ostenditur In the Sacrifices of the olde Testament was figuratiuely signified what should be giuen vs. But in this Sacrifice is not figuratiuely signified but euidently shewed what is alreadye giuen vs. In them praenunciabatur occidendus He was prenounced to be killed for vs in this annunciatur occisus he is announced already killed In such maner as in Rome the martyrdoms of S. Peter Paule are vpon their feast cōmemorated euidently shewed and announced by their very bodies and heads then sene and visited For which cause the Relikes of Martyrs be often in * Aug. de ci li. 22. ca. 8. antiquitie called The memories of the Martyrs And yet no Martyrs Relikes or body doth so expresse the very species of his martyrdome as the mysticall separation of Christes body and bloud in this diuine Sacrament doth expresse the species of his passion Ar. 55. But you haue one wonderfull place of S. Augustines For if it were well wayed it will you say interprete and answere all places of the auncient Doctors where mention is made of sacrificing the body of Christ at the time of the Communion In that place go first the words which I put here in the 22. Dem. pag. that he calleth it the one singular sacrifice of the Christians Then follow afterwards the words that you meane Ipsum vero sacrificium corpus est Christi And that same one singular Sacrifice is the body of Christ quod non offertur ipsis quia hoc sunt ipsi Which body is not offered to the Martyrs for this be they also This to wit the body of Christ Hereof
you gather that the body of Christ which he saith was the Sacrifice that was offered was not the naturall body of Christ but his mysticall body because he saith the Martyrs and it were all one He saith not so not that they are all one or the same but that they are of the mysticall body of Christ which whole mystical body is offered there to God in the offering of his naturall body for there are speciall memories of euery sort of the Saintes in heauen of the Soules in Purgatory of the Catholiks in earth The bread wine also in which his said naturall body and bloud are consecrated are such things a Au tract 26. in Ioan. Quae in vnum rediguntur ex multis as of many cornes and grapes are brought into one loafe and cup Water also b Cyp. epi. 63. to signifie vs againe béeing mingled with the wine Herevpon he saith in the same c Aug. ciu li. 10. c. 6.20 worke that in the Sacrament of the Altar it is shewed to the Church that in the oblation which she doth offer her selfe is offered And that aswell she by him as he by her is vsually offered And therefore it can not be thought that this naturall body there offered is offered to the Martyrs or to the Church as the Paganes and Manichées did charge the Christian Catholikes vpon their offering of that naturall body ouer the shrines of Martyrs You might therefore haue gathered as well that the Body which he offered vpon the Crosse was not his naturall body but his mysticall body the Church because in offering it there for his Church he offered his Church to God with it Reade De Ciu. li. 10. ca. 6. and there you shall sée that he sheweth how the workes of mercie are a sacrifice item a person consecrated to God Item our body Item our soule Item tota ipsa redempta Ciuitas hoc est congregatio societasque sanctorum the whole redeemed Citie it selfe that is the congregation and societie of the holy which he calleth vniuersale sacrificium An vniuersall Sacrifice And that after all these metaphorical Sacrifices he distinguisheth from them all not onely the Sacrifice of the Crosse but also the Sacrifice of the Altar which you confounde with that vniuersall Sacrifice not considering that he so often calleth it the one and the singuler Sacrifice of the Christians Besides these Pur. 361.293 you haue two places out of Tertullian and Ireneus The former sheweth you say what was the chiefest Sacrifice that they did offer to wit Prayer The other likewise sheweth that by the name of the Sacrifice of the Church he meaneth not the Sacrifice of the Masse which they call propitiatorie for the sinnes of the quicke and the dead but the Sacrifice of thankesgeuing and prayers Tertul. in Apol. Tertullian telleth there the Gentiles in defence of the Christians first what thinges they prayed for in the Canon of the Masse to wit for their Romane Empire among other thinges the place goeth here before cap. 9. pag. 197. Then why not to their Goddes Haec ab alio orare nō possum quā c. These thinges I cannot praye for of any other but of whom I knowe that I shall obteyne them quoniam et ipse est qui solus praestat c. For both he it is who onely doth geue them and I am he to whom is due to obtayne being his seruant which worship him onely Then also why not with their blood Sacrifices of fat calues c. qui ei offero opimam et maiorem hostiam quam ipse mandauit orationem de carne pudica de anima innocente de spiritu sancto profatam which offer to him a fat and greater host that which he himselfe commaunded to wit prayer pronounced out of a chast body out of an innocent soule out of an holy spirite Where in the name of that Prayer he comprehendeth all that is saide and done in the Masse of the faithfull which to this day also the Priest therefore beginneth saying vnto vs after the Gospell Dominus vobiscum Oremus Let vs pray and immediatly goeth to the bread and wine Hier. epist ad Euagriū c. Because this pure Sacrifice is made celebrated with Prayer ad Presbyterorum preces Christi corpus sanguisue conficitur Christes body and bloud is made by the Priestes prayers saith S. Hierome and because euen the old house of those Leuiticall bloud Sacrifices also was called Mat. 21. Isa 56. Domus orationis The house of prayer And as Tertullian setteth out agaynst the impure Paganes the puritie of the Church in her Sacrifice so doth S. Irenée set out the same against the Iewes and Heretikes Iren. li. 4. cap. 34. Mala. 1. to shewe that the pure Sacrifice in Malachie is offered by her alone quoniam cum simplicitate Ecclesia offert Because the Church offreth with simplicitie of faith hope and charitie whereas the Iewes hands are now full of bloud and all the Synagogues of those olde Heretikes helde the bread and wine to be of an yll creation For this cause he telleth them that the conscience of him that doth offer beeing pure doth sanctifie the Sacrifice and causeth God to accept it as comming from a friend And that the Sacrifices do not sanctifie a man Non enim indiget Sacrificio Deus for God doth not neede a Sacrifice so as néede should make him glad of it as it maketh a begger glad whether the giuer be a friend or a foe And do not we say the same Can any Heretike pleade as vpon our verdite that he pleaseth God in offering to him bread or wine yea or also the body it selfe and bloud of Christ so as all Priestes doe in their Caluinicall Communion no lesse then we doe in the Masse And yet the Sacrifice of it selfe is suche as pleaseth God and sanctifieth the offerer but for his owne indisposition Like as Baptisme of it selfe would cleanse the conscience Heb. 9.10 though oftentimes it doth not for fault in the receiuers of it For it is not the worthines of men but the worthines of Christ whereof the owne and proper vertue of his Sacramentes and of his Sacrifice both of the Altar and of the Crosse dependeth Motiue 35. 25. Monkes My 25. Demaund noteth that these Heretikes haue cutte off from the Church her best and perfectest member to wit Monkes and Nunnes who were so common in the Primitiue Churche that to bring all to the fashion of the Primitiue Church as they pretende they shoulde haue made all to be Monkes rather then none to be Monkes And Fulke doth nothing here but helpe our side in that he * Ar. 29.85 Pur. 87.297.250 Hic cap. 9. often reiecteth Monkes Heremites Anachorites Canons Fryers Nunnes graunting them no place in the Churche of Christe partely by an argument ab authoritate Ephes 4. negatiuè whiche I aunswered here in the 24. Demaunde treating of Bishoppes Priestes and
doe erre by their authoritie and the authoritie of their Successors after them to this time no greater authoritie in the meane time clearely ruling ouer the case to the contrarie parte but rather the more it is scanned the more continully it appeareth that their part is still to bée followed and the contrarie parte still to be condemned and accursed ¶ The fourth Chapter That he chargeth the saide Primitiue true Church with sundrie errors wherewith he neither doth nor will nor can charge vs. HEre I haue to present him with an other reason why he shoulde graunt vnto vs the true Churche rather then to the olde Fathers for so muche as he will confesse vs to bée frée from diuers errors that he chargeth them withall most of them also being so great and so grosse that none of the errors that he imputeth to vs can be thought comparable by the iudgement of any man that is any whitte indifferent and not altogether blinded with an huge beame of partialitie And let the Reader lay this to the last Chapter before and conferre all diligently together That he confesseth I say that there may bée a Companie which erreth not onely some principall members but also the whole bodye of it and which erreth obstinately and moreouer whiche erreth the grossest errors that can bée and them in no small number and yet the same companie maye bée the true Churche and in déede also hath bene the true Churche so that no péece of this nor all this together will serue him him I saye to proue our companie not to bée the true Churche And then afterwarde let it bée considered what better or what other stuffe he hath to proue the same and if he haue any suche eyther better or other then this refuse a Gods name to bée of our Churche and séeke after hym thy saluation where else thou canst finde it Well then to come to those other errors that were as he sayth the Primitiue Churches and are not ours and to beginne at the toppe Ar. 35. D. Allen requireth the Protestantes to declare when the true Church decayed To this I answere saith Fulke First Euen in the Apostles time there arose manye heresies whiche did not a little trouble the Churche Secondlye But immediately after the Apostles time while the Fathers of the Churche were earnestly occupied in resisting of horrible heresies by the crafte of Satan some errors and abuses crepte into the true Churche of Christ which at the first because they were small and men occupyed in greater matters were eyther not espyed or not regarded And howe declareth he this Iustinus Martyr was in this error that the Angells lusted after women and therefore were turned into diuells What more Irenaeus affirmeth that our Sauiour Christ lyued here .50 yeares And what more Also both he and Papias the Disciple of S. Iohn helde this error that Christ shoulde raigne a thousande yeares after the Resurrection here in fleshe And what of all this Whereby it is manifest seeyng these auncient Fathers and pillers of the Church were thus stained with errors that the Church in their time could not be free from the same Againe It seemeth also that the Churche in Iustinus his time was in some error about Second mariages and diuorcementes After all whiche he concludeth in the end And so it is euident that the true Church decayed immediatly after the Apostles time Where the diligent Reader marketh that he vseth decaying and erring indifferently one for the other As for that which he sayeth there of abuses and corruptions entered into the Church of Christ as a preparatiue to the Religion of the Papistes it belonged to the last Chapter and therefore I noted it there Supra pag. And so much of the Apostles time and also of the time immediatly after the Apostles Let vs procéede and come downe lower Cyprians time was such a time saith he as Cyprian and all the Byshops of Africa decreed in Councell Pur. 287. that those which were Baptized by heretikes shoulde be Baptized againe And therefore it was no such time but that he and all his fellowes might and did erre in some opinions contrarie to the trueth of Gods worde And lower agayne Vnder the Emperours Ar. 15. Constantius Constans and Valence the true Churche was greatly infected with the heresie of Arius what time also Liberius Byshop of Rome was infected with the same heresie Straight after that time did Sainct Hierome florishe whom amongest others in the seconde Chapter he confessed to bée a member of the true Churche And him he chargeth not onely Supra pag. as I alleaged in the last Chapter that he was almost fallen into the heresie of Tertullian in condemning Second mariages Pur. 419. Ar. 46. But also thus in an other place Consider what perilous assertions these be that the Lambe is euery where and that the Martyrs are euerye where this is to destroye the humanitie of Christ and to geue diuinitie vnto the Martyrs I doubte not but Sainct Ieronym if he had quietly considered these absurdities He lacked but such a monitor woulde haue reuoked them as erroneous and hereticall but whyle he rather followed affection then iudgement you may see howe he was deceaued At the same time was the thirde Councell of Carthage and Sainct Augustine one of the Byshops thereof Ar. 89. It he chargeth thus The Councell of Carthage the third Cap. 23. determined that all prayers at the Altar should be directed onely to the Father and not to the Sonne or the holy Ghost Whether this be an error to define That it is vnlawfull to pray to God the Sonne and God the holy Ghost let euery man iudge And to put more weight to this his accusation he addeth But you will except that this was a prouinciall Synode and not a Generall Councell But I answere you it hath the authoritie of a generall Councell because it was confirmed in the sixte generall Councell holden at Constantinople in Trullo But of all others most insolently he insulteth and triumpheth against the auncient Church for ministring the blessed Sacramēt to Infants Ar. 87. I will proue vnto you saith he that the Church of Rome hath falsly interpreted diuers sentences of Scripture and therfore by that which she hath done it can not be doubted but that she may do it One then for example S. Augustine was in this error that he thought Infants must receiue the sacrament of the body and bloud of Christ vnder payne of damnation and was deceiued by false interpretation of this Scripture Except ye eate the flesh of the Sonne of man drinke his bloud c. Ioh. 6. This error and false interpretation he affimeth to be common to all the Westerne Church and to Pope Innocent him selfe Contra duas Epist Pelag. ad Bonifacium li. 2. cap. 4. contra Iulianum li. 1. cap. 2. Againe in an other place where D. Allen admonished his Reader saying Pose M.
Iewel where he had Pur. 145.148 that the Church of God might erre Behold I pray you the confidence of this man in his answere therevnto Whatsoeuer M. Iewel hath affirmed against the Papistes he hath so substantially and learnedly defended that For many Pâ—testants neeâ— no other boâ— to become Câ—â—tholikes he neede not to haue any other man to answere for him Therfore if it were not to choke M. Allen in his owne coller I would trauell no further in this question How then doth he strangle the man The Church you say can not erre and that companie is the Church which hath the Pope for their head Very true both the one and the other If therfore it can be proueâ— that the Pope and all they that take his parte haue erred it is sufficiently shewed that the Churche maye erre Say then S. Augustine was in this error as you will not denie that the sacrament of the body and bloud of Christ was to be ministred to Infants But of the same opinion he affirmeth that Innocentius Bishop of Rome and all the Church in his time was Therfore the Pope and all the Church did erre Reade Augustine contra Iul. li. 1. cap. 2. Whether he saith of Innocentius Qui denique paruulos definiuit nisi manduc auerinâ— carnem filij hominis vitam prorsus habere non posse Which hath defined that Infantes except they eate the flesh of the sonne of man can haue no life at all in them And by eating the flesh of the sonne of man he meaneth eating the sacrament of his flesh and bloud as it is euident to them that will bestow the reading of Augustines discourse in that place Pur. 309. Againe in an other place And by the waye note here one practise of a notable error in Augustines time that the Sacrament of the Lords supper was giuen to children which wist not what it ment contrarie to the worde of God who requireth men to examine them selues before they receiue it Wherfore if any other practise were in his time or allowed by him contrarie to Gods worde we are no more bound vnto it then vnto this which euen the Papistes them selues Or els you can not â—eâ—l will confesse to be erroneous Yea he is not afrayde to preferre the very Pelagians in this poynt before all Gods Church of that time Pur. 390. saying In S. Augustines dayes of whose time the historie of the Church is By vvhat Historiographaâ— largely set foorth vnto vs who preached or writ agaynst that error which he and Innocentius Bishop of Rome and all the Church as he confessed did hold that Infants must receiue the holy Communion or els they should be damned who preached against this error except perhaps the Pelagians that were horrible heretikes Agayne Why was it reuealed to the Pelagians Pur. 422. that Infantes might be saued without the participation of the sacrament of Christes body and bloud rather then vnto S. Austine Innocentius Bishop of Rome and as Augustine saith and the Catholike Fathers of that time which thought it was as necessarie for them to receiue the Communion as to be baptized The reuealing of his ignorant sawcines herein I reserue to the sixt Chapter Here I do no more but note what errors he layeth to the true Churches charge which bene these that you haue heard ¶ The fifte Chapter What reason he rendreth why they in those auncient times had the true Church notwithstanding these their errors THus haue we heard of him that the true Church may remayne the true Church although it erre and that it hath erred in many of the same articles wherein we do nowe erre and moreouer in many other articles beside wherein we do not erre wherof it followeth playnly that neither our erring nor these our errors no nor any other our errors are alone sufficient for him to depriue vs of the true Church And now not béeing able to depriue vs of the true Church if any man do yet thinke that for all that he is not constrayned to graunt to vs the true Church let the same man in this Chapter consider what reason he yéeldeth why our Fathers notwithstanding their foresaid errors had the true Church and he shal most euidently perceiue that by the same reason we notwithstanding our errors haue likewise the true Church He nameth somewhere Tertullian Cyprian Origen Ar. 61. Epiphanius Hilarius Chrysostomus Hieronymus Ambrosius Augustinus c. and saith of them as followeth But for as much as they holde the foundation that is Christ though they haue diuers errors and superstitions they were doubtles the members of the true Church of Christ Pur. 336 In an other place hauing said that in S. Augustines time they vsed vnprofitable prayers for the dead and many other superstitions he addeth neither doth it folow that al that taught or beleeued those errors so long as they buylded vppon Christ the onely foundation haue perished Againe Ar. 74. We take not vpon vs to medle with God his iudgementes whom he condemneth or for what causes further then the worde of God teacheth vs namely that as many as haue not beleeued in the only sonne of God are condemned for their vnbeliefe other secret causes we remit to his secret counsel and knowledge Pur. 34â— In so much that where D. Allen presseth this newe founde Cleargie in our countrey for vsurping those Colledges other ecclesiastical prouisions against the willes of the first founders who meant them to such as should pray for their soules and not to suche as should preach agaynst the same he answereth of them likewise saith Whether any meant to mainteine preaching agaynst Masse or prayers for their owne soules as we know not whether they did or no so we count it not materiall c. and whether the buylders of such places be saued or damned it perteyneth not to vs to iudge or to enquire Agayne where D. Allen had shewed by example of S. Augustine of his mother and of others that they offered prayers and the sacrifice of the Altar for the dead Pur. 325 328. and therevpon concludeth saying Thus loe all these Fathers taughte thus they practised thus they liued thus they dyed none was saued then but in this fayth let no manne looke to be saued in any other nowe Nay saith Fulke not so For althogh they were in that time infected with some errors yet was the faith of their saluation in the only foundation Iesus Christ Pur. 238. c. in the only mercy of God Againe We confesse that in Chrysostomes dayes the onely foundation Iesus Christe was taught and the article of iustification by the only mercy of God was preached but yet we affirme that muche straw wood and other impure matter was buylded vpon the foundation whiche was a preparatiue to the kingdome of Antichrist which was not long after to be reuealed Pur. 287. And in an other place Cyprians
wel be more remisse therin though yet she kepeth those Ceremonies still Aug. ep 86 Reade S. Augustine ad Casulanum of those matters where also besides this you shall finde also another generall reason according to the diuine wisdome of that most Ecclesiastical doctor to wit that it sufficeth if the Church haue vnitie of faith as it were intus in membris inwardly in her limmes and that she wel may withall haue diuersitie of obseruations as it were varietatem in veste varietie in her queenely garment according to the Psalme Psal 44. Which he speaketh for diuersitie of Ceremonies in sundry places at one time but it serueth for the like diuersitie in one place at sundry times as it is euident As for your boldnes with the Fathers for their Liturgies pronouncing that vndoubtedly they chaunged the auncient truth into their owne lately receiued errors Proc. apud Claud. de Sainctes praef in Liturg. or else why were they not content with the olde forme Proclus Bishop of Constantinople about a thousand yeres agoe answereth your Why telleth you that S. Basill and S. Chrysostome did no more but abridge the Liturgie of S. Iames the Apostle which thrée Liturgies the Councell in Trullo also doth acknowledge and that vpon iuste cause Can. 32. But that with errors they corrupted eyther it or any other forme which was vsed before them if any man be so farre gone so to thinke vpon your light worde for all the most renowmed credite of those Fathers let the studious of truth notwithstanding take the paynes to conferre those Liturgies and they shall easily be able of their owne inspection to controll you Supra pag. 21. as I also before in the third Chapter by playne demonstration disproued you for the same and namely in the very same article that forced you to this absurde and shameles shift v. Of Sacrifice and for the dead Now are we come to your next accusation of the auncient Church concerning Sacrifice concerning the dead The name of Sacrifice Pur. 419. which they coÌ„monly vsed for the celebration of the Lords supper they tooke vp of the Gentiles so you say but you proue it not You might as well say that they or the Apostles had it of the Gentiles to name that Sacrifice which Christ offered vpon the Crosse No syr they named it so because it was so and therfore Christ also said not This is I that was borne of the virgine though that were true but This is my body vpon the one Matt. 26. and This is my bloud vpon the other The Apostle also for the same cause saying of him that commeth therevnto vnworthily not that he is guyltie of Christ though that be true 1. Cor. 11. but that he is guyltie of his body and of his bloud because it is such a celebration of his death Wherevpon if you knew what is the sacrificing of a liue thing you should sée that how properly he was sacrificed on the Crosse in an open maner euen as properly he is sacrificed here in a mysticall maner The same Apostle therefore agayne saying that we haue an a Heb. 13. Altar to eate of which place your blindnesse b Pur. 45â— alleageth against this Sacrifice and also calling it c 1. Cor. 10 The table of our Lorde in that forme of speache as he calleth c 1. Cor. 10 The table of the diuels the sacrifice of the Gentiles and the Leuiticall sacrifices likewise the Leuiticall c 1. Cor. 10 Altar Yet you can not find d Pur. 200 289. one word nor one syllable in the Scripture of any Sacrifice instituted by Christ at his last Supper Whereof we shall say more Cap. 10. Dem. 24. Purgatorie But to go forwarde with you to your accusation first of Purgatorie and afterward of Purgatorie fire To proue that Purgatory came of the Philosophers as al most notable heresies did Pur. 416. Tertul. de anima cap 31.32 you alleage out of Tertullian De anima that all Philosophers which graunted the soules immortalitie assigned three places for the soules departed heauen hell and a third place of purifying This argument proueth as well that heauen and hell and the Immortalitie of the soule had their originall of the Philosophers Howbeit also to report the truth there is no word of any third place of purifying but onely that such Philosophers made two sortes of Receptacles to wit Supernas mansiones for Philosophers soules onely and Inferos for all other soules and that about the first they did varie for Plato placed it in aethere Aerius in aëre the Stoikes circa lunam This is all Againe you proue out of Irenéeus that Purgatorie came of Carpocrates the Heretike Iren. li. 1. cap. 24. because he inuented a kinde of Purgatorie and proued it out of that place of S. Mathew Thou shalt not come forth vntil thou hast payd the vttermost farthing Mat. 5. euen as the Papistes do By this argument againe you will winne much honestie Epiph. li. 1. To. 2. Haer. 27. Tertul. de anima c. 17 Ireneus and after him Epiphanius as also Tertullian in your owne booke De anima do write that the Carpocratians helde that a man must wallow in aâ—l the filthe of sinne that is in this world before he can come to life euerlasting and therefore if he haue missed any sinne his soule is reuersed into a body and so againe and againe vntill he haue fulfilled all And for this purpose Iesus they say vsed this Parable of agreeing with the aduersarie in the way Matt. 5. c. Corpus enim dicunt esse carcerem c. For that prison they say is the body and that which he saith Thou shalt not go out thence vntill thou hast payed the last farthing they interprete as if the soule should be turned ouer by certayne Angels from body to body semper quoadvsque in omni omnino operatione quae in mundo est fiat Continually euen vntill it haue bene in all and euery acte of this world vt nihil amplius relinquatur saith Epiphanius ad nefarium quicquam faciendum so that nothing remayne that is abhominable but it is fulfilled Purgatorie fire Pur. 419.418 You goe forward and say that they tooke Purgatorie fire of the Origenistes and the name of Purgatorie of certayne Mediators who about S. Augustines time would accorde Origens error with the erroneous practise of the church For it was Origen that brought in the fire also and that he would buylde as the Papists do See here ca. xij of Christes damnation temporall according to Caluine and as he had better reason then the Papistes haue out of the 1. Cor. 3. This you say but you proue it not Origens error was that hell fire is not an euerlasting fire but onely a temporall fire which should in time purge not onely them that had ended their liues in most horrible sinnes but also the diuels
plainely Angeli Dei August de Ciu. li. 15. cap. 22.23 The Angels of God where we haue nowe but onely Filij Dei The sonnes of God meaning as it is now commonly thought The ofspring of Seth that they marryed with the daughters of men that is with the ofspring of Caine which aâ—ore they refrained religiously iij. Touching Second mariages and Sainct Hierome Ar. 35. But of Iustinus his time you saye further It seemeth also that the Churche in his time was in some error about Seconde mariages and diuorcementes Had you no more to saye but It seemeth and yet coulde not absteine from accusing the Churche of God neither yet doe you tell vs why it séemeth so you neyther alleage nor so much as quote any place to proue it In the workes of Iustinus him selfe I dare say you haue it not If you tooke it out of the Magdeburgian Centuries followe my counsell hereafter and looke euerye thing first your selfe in the Authors before you beléeue your fellowes or masters any more otherwise they will deceiue you still and so you againe deceyue your puenies if they againe will trust your word Supra ca. 4 Of like stuffe it is that you accuse S. Hierom also for Second mariages say a Pur. 419. Yea Ieronym b Ar. 46. the great aduaÌ„cer of virginitie dispraiser of mariage was almost fallen into the heresie of TertulliaÌ„ in condemning second mariages You say but almost that also wtout any testimony either alleged or quoted Bylike you neuer read S. Hieroms Apologie pro libris aduer Ioui where at large he defendeth him self against all such cauils of his enemies Amongst much more thus he saith there Non damno digamos prope â— imò nec trigamos c. I do not condemne them that are twisemaried no not thrisemaried also if it may be saide eightmaried Reade that booke from the beginning and stand out if you can that very countenance onely of this most graue singular doctor wherwith he speaketh to his backbiters saying An ego rudis in Scripturis c. O belike I was altogether ignorant in the Scriptures and began then first to reade the holy bookes and therfore was not able in my writing to walke straight betwene virginitie and mariage but whiles I exalted virginitie agaynst Iouinian I condemned mariage with Marcion and Manicheus And yet so bold you be with him behind his back as you think that you lay vnto him agayne other two such perilous assertions such erroneous and hereticall absurdities Ar. 46. as no yong scholar of diuinitie would fall into To destroy the humanitie of Christ and To giue diuinitie vnder the Martyrs To report the trueth Vigilantius the heretike did say against praying to Saintes Hier. ad Vigil 2 That the soules of the Apostles and Martyrs can not be present at their sepulchres and where els they would This doth S. Hierom proue to be absurde and against the Scripture considering that The diuels gadde ouer all the world and with marueilous celeritie are present euery where And the Apocalipse saith of the Saintes Apoc. 1â— They folow the Lambe whither soeuer he goeth Of which place S. Hierome gathereth thus Si agnus vbique c. If the Lambe be euery where Ergo also these that are with the Lambe must be beleeued to be euerywhere Not meaning in personall presence euery where at once for so much nedeth not to the Inuocation of Saintes but of such power they be that they heare their suiters in all places at once and can be personally present to heale and helpe whom they will euen as the Lambe that is Christ according to his humanitie as your selfe confesse and as throughout that booke the worde is vsed heareth his suiters in all places at once and in personall presence assisted S. Stephen Act. 7. whomsoeuer els he will I say according also to his humanitie as in that respect likewise he said Mat. 2. â— All power is giuen to me in heauen and in earth And therfore you shal neuer be able in the matter of Inuocation of Saints to answer that text They follow the Lambe whither soeuer he goeth hauing said afore that he stood ouer the mount Sion so as Stephen saw him standing But you must be fayne to deny the Inuocation hearing assisting of Christ according to his humanitie as much as you denie the inuocation hearing and assisting of them that be so with Christ S. Hierome is to olde a scholer in the Scriptures or rather to perfect a master for you to answere or oppose him iiij Touching praying to the Sonne and to the holy Ghost If these afore be but particuler or such other persons as imply not the whole Church but yet two most euident examples you haue in store against the whole vniuersall true Church The first that the third Councell of Carthage though a Prouinciall Synode yet hauing the authoritie of a generall Councell because it was confirmed in a generall Councell defined that it is vnlawfull to pray to God the sonne and God the holy Ghost Mary this is a great matter in déede and incomparably worse then for Vigilantius or you to say that it is vnlawfull to pray to Christ according to his humanitie or to his Apostles and Martyrs But how appeareth it that they defined so because they determined that al prayers at the Altar should be directed only to the Father and not to the Sonne Con. Car. 3. ca. 23. or the holy Ghost The wordes of the Councell truely reported are these Vt nemo in precibus c. That no man in prayers name eyther the Father for the Sonne or the Sonne for the Father For that were to confound the persons after the heresie of Sabellius It followeth And when the Altar is stoode at let the prayer be directed alwayes to the Father Now doth it folow of this that no prayers may be directed to the Sonne and holy Ghost Such are his necessarie collections or also that the very prayers at the Altar may not be directed to them that they may not I say because for order sake they are appoynted to be directed to the Father The Arrians in S. Fulgentius time aboue a thousande yeres agoe Fulgen. ad Moninum li. 2. quaest 2. ca. 2.5 knowing this selfe same order to haue procéeded from the Apostles and to haue bene receiued and alwayes continued in all Liturgies or Masses throughout all Christendome esteemed it amongst their arguments as aperse But he teacheth the Catholikes to answere both those Arrians and this Protestant First he repeateth the argumeÌ„t speaking to his friend Moninus Dicis a nonnullis te interrogatum c. Thou sayest that many haue asked thee of the sacrifice of the body and bloud of Christ which many thinke to be offered to the Father onely Also thou saiest that this argument is as it were the triumph of the heretikes Then he answereth it at large
to our purpose at length he saith that the Catholikes must vnderstande that all seruice of any honor and sacrifice is giuen of the Catholike Church together both to the Father and to the Sonne and to the holy Ghost that is to the holy Trinitie For though he that offereth directeth the prayer to the person of the Father this is not any preiudice to the Sonne or to the holy Ghost He declareth it thus because The conclusion of the same prayer for so muche as it hath the name of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost sheweth that there is no difference in the Trinitie Looke in the Canon of the Masse and you shall more easily perceiue his meaning The prayer there beginneth thus being directed to the Father Te igitur clementissime pater c. Therefore ô most mercifull Father with humble supplication we beseech thee for Iesus Christ his sake thy sonne our Lorde c. And it is in the ende concluded thus Per ipsum cum ipso in ipso c. By him and with him and in him is to thee God the Father in the vnitie of the holy Ghost all honor and glory world without ende Amen Wherevpon also among his instructions to his friend Petrus Diaconus which you alleage vnder the name of S. Augustine here cap. 10. dem 24. Fulg. alia◠Aug. de fi◠de ad Pet. Diac. ca. 19 béeing too light in very diuerse companies in his pilgrimage to Hierusalem he sayth Holde most firmely and in no wise doubt but to the Sonne with the Father and the holy Ghost they did sacrifice those beastes in the time of the olde Testament And to him nowe in the newe Testament with the Father and the holy Ghost cum quibus illi est vna diuinitas he hauing one Godhead with them the H. Churche Catholike ouer all the worlde ceasseth not to offer in fayth and charitie the sacrifice of bread and wine c. Therefore you might as well haue charged Christ him selfe for directing so likewise the prayer that he taught vs Our father c. v. Of ministring the blessed Sacrament to Infantes But the other error is he saith a notable error and suche a practise as euen the Papistes them selues will confesse to be erroneous This it was S. Augustine and Pope Innocentius and al the Catholike Fathers of that time and all the Westerne Church yea all the Church excepting none but only the Pelagians ministred the Sacrament of Christes body and bloud to Infantes yea and thought it as necessarie for them as Baptisme to wit that they must receiue it or els they should be damned And will not D. Allen deny this will the Papistes them selues confesse it for so you say boldly but in your boldnesse you open withall your wilfull ignorance Fulke neuer read the Councel of Trent Who would thinke it if your selfe did not by this confesse it that you neuer read the Councell of Trent And what a presumption is this for you to preach yea and to write against the doctrine of the Catholike Church nothing regarding eyther what it is or how it is explicated defended defined by occasion of your heresies of the Catholike Bishops in their Generall Councell As if an Arrian doctor should neuer haue séene the Councel of Nice Well our countrey men may perceiue by this what blind guides they haue of you Reade the Councel of Trent I exhort both you and all other that can specially that halfe of it which is of doctrine and you wil either imbrace it as it is most worthy and as I pray God to giue you the grace or at leastwise you shall better know therby what it is that you must confute where now most of you do commonly fight only with your owne shadowes either of ignorance or which is worse of wilfulnes not knowing what in déede we teache There to our present purpose you shall find the said Councel after that it hath said Trid. Con. Se. 21. ca. 4. That Infantes lacking the vse of reason are by no necessitie bound to the sacramentall receiuing of the Eucharist to declare moreouer and say Neque ideo damnanda est antiquitas c. Neither for all that is antiquitie to be condemned if it practised that maner sometime in some places For as those most holy Fathers had pro illius temporis ratione answerable to that time sui facti probabilem causam a reasonable cause of their so doing so verily that they did it not for any necessitie to saluation without controuersie it must be beleeued This declaration of the Councell may satisfie not onely all Catholikes to whom it is the declaration of the Holy Ghost him selfe but also any other reasonable man to whom it can not possibly be lesse then the declaration of many most learned and most discrete men which knew well what they said and that they could not be therin disproued In so much that Kemnitius the Lutheran Protestant not so much as once toucheth the Councell for this though he write of purpose against the Councell Yet for more satisfaction of all men I say further to open the case particularly The heresie of the Pelagians was that Man or Fréewill of man is still notwithstanding the fall of Adam See A◠ad quo haer 88 lagian◠sufficient of his owne naturall strength without Christ or the grace of Christe to saluation And so consequently they saide children to be borne in innocencie and not in sinne The Catholikes to proue the contrarie of children alleaged the necessitie of their Baptisme confirming it by that Scripture Except one be regenerate of water non potest introire in Regnum Dei he can not enter into the kingdome of God Ioan. 3 The Pelagians séeing so plaine a text confessed they Originall sinne No hereticall pertinacie would not let them but a straunge shifte they had They graunted vpon this text that children vnbaptized should not in déede come into the kingdome of God for lacke of Baptisme but yet for their naturall innocencie without Christ they should haue life euerlasting in a certaine other place out of the kingdome of God The Catholikes replyed against that vaine shift and alleaged this text Ioan. 6 Except ye eate the fleshe of the Sonne of man and drinke his bloud non habebitis vitam in vobis you shall not haue life in you Who now would accuse those Fathers of error Yea who would not admire in them such readines to replye so properly to the purpose or let any man stand vp and say that the Pelagians are not by this confuted and their children excluded as before from the kingdome of God so now also from life and so left in death and therefore in sinne and therefore againe not innocent and all this for lacke of the Grace of Christ in Baptisme But now putting the case that a childe were baptized and then immediately died before he receiued sacramentally the Eucharist who reading innumerable places
But that is so manifest to be spoken of matters of externall comelines and not of doctrine of the Sacrament as Prayers and Sacrifices that no man which vnderstandeth what diatazesthai doth signifie can doubt or make any question of it Be it so as you say But what haue you forgotten the thing wherof you speake Is it not of that Solemne prayer for the dead in the celebration of the Sacrifice That prayer we say is diatazis one of S. Paules ordinations What vnproper speach is here specially S. Augustine saying agayne in another place Aug◠ver ◠Ser. 3 Hoc enim a patribus traditum vniuersa obseruat Ecclesia This being a tradition of the Fathers that is the Apostles the whole Church obserueth and therefore it is such a thing as nulla morum diuersitate variatur when they which are departed in the cōmunion or vnitie of the body and bloud of Christ be in their place mentioned at the same Sacrifice To pray for them and to mention that for them also it is offred Thus you haue a piece of the cause why the Scriptures conteined not the whole order of celebration of the Sacramēts to wit for breuities sake And what doth that or any other cause let other writers to make mention of such things when Aerius the heretike compelled them or any other iust occasion was ministred You imagine and that deceiueth you as though the Apostles purposed to put all in writing Which if they had neither so many of them That al is not vvritten nor one of them so often would haue mentioned one thing But as the purpose of the holy Ghost in the bookes of the Olde Testament was principally to foreshew manifoldly Christ and his Church so in the bookes of the New Testament as in the gospels Ioan. 19. Luk. 24. to shew Christ euen to Consummatum est and Impleri omnia quae scripta sunt de me And in the Actes of the Apostles to shew Christes Church according to the old predictions beginning amongst the Iewes and increasing to the Gentiles yea and remouing with S. Paule from Hierusalem the head of the Iewes worthily reprobated and setting in Rome the head of the Gentiles by mercy elected And all this but as it were the first birth of the Church for Consummatum est could not be tolde by way of a Storie before the ende of the world though foretold it is the whole course I say of the Church euen to the glorious consummation thereof in the Apocalipse The other Bookes were written specially agaynst the perfidious Iewes and other false Masters of that time As likewise in euery age afterward agaynst the seuerall heresies of eche age we haue the Ecclesiasticall I say not Canonicall writers and Councels And therfore vnlesse any thing belonging to ech time be omitted in the writings of ech time no maruaile at all for the omission of other things which there was then no suche occasion to expresse This I should haue reserued to an other place but that this insolent Poser might not abide any delay Pur. 264. Now then to go forward with him I know saith he the Papists will answer that Tradition is of as good credit as the Scripture 1. Thes 2. 2. Thes 2. 1. Cor. 11. and is the word of God vnwritten as well as the Scripture is the word of God written And good reason for the Scripture it selfe so teacheth vs. But why then saith he do they not obserue all things that Tertullian in the same place affirmeth to be Tradition This Why I haue answered in the sixt Chapter Supra ◠par 1. d◠Pur. 36 Moreouer he saith Their writings are to vs the onely true testimonie of their tradition So were they not to the Thessalonians For they had of S. Paule Traditiones per sermonē per epistolam Pur. 40 Traditions partly by word of mouth partly by writing Yea he saith further When the Apostolike writing can not be shewed it is but the poynt of an Heretike to boast of Apostolike tradition So he saith to D. Allen. But to the old Fathers I hope he will be somewhat better and content to take only his exception against them as where he saith Pur. 39. ◠If Tertullian had no ground of his saying when he affirmed that Oblations for the dead came from the Apostles what ground can Augustine haue which was 200. yeres further from the Apostles time then he Againe Pur. 39 Chrisostome can no more proue that Prayer for the dead came from the Apostles then Tertullian can proue that oblation for the dead came from them Againe But where he saith Pur. 30 304. It was decreed by the Apostles that in the celebration of the holy mysteries a remembrance should be made of them that are departed He must pardon vs of crediting because he can not shew it out of the Acts and writings of the Apostles We must not beleue Chrysostome without Scripture affirming that it was ordeined so by the Apostles Howbeit sometime he is bolder yet with the Fathers for auouching this Tradition He dare not call them heretikes for it but yet he dareth to charge them with doutfulnes contradiction about it For of Chrysostome he saith Pur. 39 Chryso◠Ep. ad ◠Hom. 3 Lo M. Allen your owne Doctor confesseth it is but small helpe that can be procured by praiers almes or remēbrance of thē at the celebration of the holy Mysteries You will say that soone after he saith The Apostles that instituted such memory knew that much cōmoditie came to the dead Then see how soone he forgetteth himself when he followeth not the rule of holy scripture And againe Ar. 39. Yet did not praying for the dead so preuayle in the Primitiue Church that they durst define what profite the soules receiued thereby for Chrysostome saith Let vs procure them some helpe small helpe truly but yet let vs helpe them Likewise Augustine Aug. ◠fes lib. cap. 13. where he prayeth for his father and mother declareth how vncertayne he was of the matter One while he feareth the daunger of euery soule that dyeth in Adam An other while he beleeueth that they neede not his prayer yet he desireth God to accept the same and moue other men to remember them in their prayers Thus it is necessarie that they wander which leane vnto mens traditions without the word of God And in the same place S. Augustine in his booke De cura pro mortuis agenda wearieth him selfe and in the end can define nothing in certayne how the Saintes in heauen should heare the prayers of men on earth Such doubtfulnes they fall into that leaue the worde of God leane to traditions Although he were willing to mainteine Inuocation of Saints Pur. 317. yet he hath nothing of certentie out of the worde of God eyther to perswade his owne conscience or to satisfie them that moued the doubtes vnto him For S. Augustine De
and they shall see the sonne of man comming in the cloudes of heauen with passing power and maiestie He exhorteth also there to the flight spoken of in the Apocalipse Cum ergo videritis Abominationem desolationis quae dicta est a Daniele propheta stanteÌ„ in loco sancto The consummation being now come you shall see the Abomination of desolation which was spoken of by Daniel the Prophet standing in the holy place vbi non debet where alas it should not Mar. 13. And afore that time Videte ne turbemini Looke that you be not disquieted But when you sée this tunc qui in Iudaea sunt fugeant ad montes Then to preuent the horrible persecution imminent let all sortes of good people flee and with all hast flée not standing to consult but renouncing at once all that they haue and committing them selues roundly and wholly to the helpe of God from aboue Which the Elect then shall do with all alacritie euen as willing to be martyred as the Dragon and Antichrist shall be to martyr theÌ„ And that is it that the Apocalypse hath in these words And the earth the elect ouer al the world did helpe the woman when the Serpent did poure out of his mouth after her now fleing into the wildernes water like a flood and the earth opened his mouth and supped vp the flood Abhomination The Abhomination of Desolation standing in the Holy place and that to be séene so vniuersally whiche is here giuen for the watchworde to the woman to flée in suche maner the same of S. Paule is said to be Antichrist him selfe so proude aboue all measure 2. Thes 2. Ita vt in templo Dei sedeat That he will sitte in the temple of God setting out him selfe as if he were God To know what Daniel meaneth by Desolation of the Temple Desolation we must looke in him Pa. 11. 12. what occupied the temple dayly before and we finde it to be called of him Inge Sacrificium The continuall Sacrifice By the which S. Paule also prophecied 1. Cor. 11. that we should announce our Lordes death Hippo. Martyr â—rat de Antich Consumma mundi Hier in Da. xij Donec veniat Vntill his comming And the auncient Fathers do say therevpon accordingly The preciouse body and bloud of Christ non extabit shall not be extant to be openly séene in those dayes of Antichrist The Liturgie or Masse shall be extinguished The Psalmodie of the Canonicall houres shall cease So then the taking away of this dayly Sacrifice out of all Churches is the Desolation And the Abhomination sette there in steade thereof is that man of Sinne that sonne of perdition Antichrist him selfe partly in his owne person partly in his Image whereof the Apocalypse speaketh Apo. 13.14.16.19 as it doth also of his Characters or Markes both in mens handes and in their foreheades And for the time when this shall be Daniel agréeth with the Gospell and Apocalypse for he saith And from the time when the dayly Sacrifice shall be taken away and the Abhomination set vp for Desolation dayes 1290. Blessed is he that exspecteth and commeth to dayes 1335. Likewise S. Paule agréeth vpon the same time Mat. 24. For as the Apostles would learne of our Lorde a signe of his comming and of the consummation of the world so the Thessalonians likewise being troubled 2. Thes 2. quasi instet dies Domini As though the day of our Lorde had then bene instant the Apostle teacheth them the contrarie and saith Nequis vos seducat vllo modo Let not any seduce you in any case for Antichrist must first be reuealed and then in déede the day of our Lorde is instant for our Lorde Iesus will kill him with the breath of his mouth so easily him that séemeth so mightie and will make frustrate all his procéedings by the manifestation of his owne comming Another thing also he there nameth Defection which must be afore our Lords coÌ„ming be instant saying Nisi venerit discessio primum That same Apostasie must come before Which thing he so distinguisheth from the other thing that is from the reuelation of Antichrist that for this he remembreth them of a certaine token thereof which he had more playnly tolde them as also al the rest by word of mouth and it is commonly taken to be the vtter abolishing of the Romane Emperour Donec de medio fiat qui tenet nunc tunc And then shall be reuealed that impious man But to the comming of the Apostasie he giueth not that token signifying that although it also shall be at the instant of our Lordes comming yet neuerthelesse while the Romaine Emperour is in a sorte remayning Whether Antichrist or the Apostasie agree to the Protestantes So that by the time it is euident that neither Antichrist Antichrist and the Protestante nor the Apostasie agréeth to Bonifacius the third neither do I saye that Antichrist agréeth to Luther or Caluin or any other of you He shall be another maner of felow Iwis also the time of his raigne in persecution iumpe thrée yeres and a halfe according to the foresaid Scriptures Howbeit this is certayne that you amongst you haue done Antichrist most notable and worthy seruice to make the fooles that heare you not think of his comming nor to thinke that he shall be One certayne person Si patrem f. Beelzebub vocauerunt quanto magis domemesticos eius as the Scripture is euident but rather take Christes Vicar and so many his Vicares to be the man that so when he coÌ„meth he may go away withall more smoothly Yet the Elect will be we know better aduised But this I will boldly say The Apostasie and the Protestantes that your Heresie is so like to the foresaid Apostasie that but for one place in the Apocalipse I would boldly pronounce with my Mother and Mystresse the Churches leaue that it is euen the selfe same The place is in the first Vae Apoc. 8.9.10.11 vnder the first Angell trumpeter For the second Vae vnder the sixt Angel is playnly of Antichrist And the third or last Vae vnder the seuenth and last Angell is playnly of Domesday Therefore the first vae must be the next thing immediatly before Antichrist And it is of marueilous Locustes by a certayne falling starre let out of hell Apo. .9 Locusies Their king is the Angell of hell called in Hebrew Abaddon in Greeke Apollyon in Latin Exterminans in English Destroyer Their power is not to kill the faithful but to torment them fiue monethes yet that in so miserable a maner that they shall desire rather to be killed All this more in that place Now the time of their persecution commeth to short of yours Also the vniuersalitie item the vehemencie thereof ouerreacheth yours though your will be as good as theirs as by Elmers Rackes some Catholikes haue had experience But otherwise manifold
Apoc. 3. And if you yet doubt by what they ouercome whether by the Lambes bloud alone or also by theyr owne patient confession or affliction vnto death it is written there agayne And they ouercame the diuell by the bloud of the Lambe and by their owne martirdome dia â—on logoâ—â—es martyriâ—s auâ—on and loued not their life euen vnto death Apoc. 12. And S. Paule accordingly calleth it 2. Cor. 4. the mortification of Iesus when the Apostles were mortified for Iesus and saith they carried the same about continually in their bodies that also the life of Iesus might be manifested in their selfe same bodies at the latter day which is the same thing that the Apocalipse calleth to appeare before the throne in white stoles Wherby you sée that as the bloud of Christ so by it martyrdome also worketh such glory For so it foloweth there again This our affliction although it is but short and light operatur worketh vs euerlasting weight of glory exceding measure aboue measure Because affliction here for Iesus doth so wash our stoles or bodies therefore it procureth that they shal be so glorious in the Resurrection this say these Scriptures And so much of the foundations and by occasion of them Now to Purgatorie it selfe and prayer for the dead Secondly directly of Purgatorie it selfe and praier for the dead whether all the elect goe straight to Heauen Afore Christes comming Limbus patrum Directly against Purgatory prayer for the dead you shoote diuers arrowes or rather cockshotles so deadly are the woundes that your shot doth make First you will proue by many and euident Scriptures that all the Elect do go yea and alwayes from the beginning of the world haue gone straight to heauen therefore neuer no Purgatory neuer no Limbus Patrum Whiche if you can do your skill in the Scripture no doubt farre passeth all the auncient Doctors were they neuer so wel studied therin For they all could not finde so muche as one text that all or any one also went to heauen before Christ yea and not many textes Vide Sander monar li. 7. pag. 518.520 Pur. 57. that any one after him also goeth thither before the generall Resurrection but rather very many textes that vntill the Church within these 300. yeres defined the contrarie made it very probable that none are there till then Well thus you begin That the Fathers of the Old law before Christ were not in hell it is to be proued with manifest argumentes and authorities out of holy Scriptures But first you thinke necessary to answere one text that stoode in your way saying Although they were not nor yet are in perfect blessednesse God prouiding a better thing for vs that they without vs should not be made perfect Heb. 11. By that they of the old Testament wer not made perfect or consummate without vs of the new Testament S. Paule there doth meane euidently that their Soules were not yet admitted into heauen As in that whole Epistle he sheweth that the Old Testament did consummate nothing but contrariwise Heb. 7. Heb. 10. Heb. 9. that it made continually euery yere a commemoration of their sinnes because they remayned still and were not perfectly remitted and therefore that Christe dyed In Redemptionem earum praeuaricationum quae erant sub priore Testamento To buye out the preuarications that were all that while that so at length the heires might attayne the euerlasting inheritance which was promised Heb. 9. Nondum enim propalatam esse Sanctorum viam adhuc priore tabernaculo habente statum For the way into Sancta or heauen was not yet opened vntill the high Priest Iesus entred first thereinto Heb. 10. qui initiauit nobis viam nouam It was he that beganne this newe waye vnto vs who nowe therefore haue fiduciam in introitu Sanctorum Confidence to enter in after him béeing our forerunner into the same Sancta And all this is spoken of our Soules As for our bodies neither yet is the way open vnlesse Sancta were open when onely the High priest entred into them This was the prouidence of God for vs that we should not thinke we come to late if the Fathers soules had beene admitted in before vs. Confer the end of your owne text with the beginning of it Heb. 11. vt non consummarentur and non acceperunt repromissionem Sée how plainly he expoundeth their not consummating to be their not attayning of the promise And what promise Heb. 9. Confer this other place vt repromissioneÌ„ accipiant aeternae haereditatis That the heires might attayne the promise of euerlasting inheritance I might at large declare the same by the whole course of Scripture as D. Allen saith very well but that I am not here to alleage Pur. 439. but only to answere Well then against these most manifest Scriptures let vs heare the manifest authorities of Scripture which you pretend Pur. 57.58 For you say Seeing they all beleeued in Christ they had euerlasting life and entred not into condemnation but passed from death to life Io. 5. To what life but the life or resurrection of their bodies for vntill the last day all the dead are in death but then some shall come forth into resurrection of life some others into resurrection of damnation but he that beleeueth in me hath that is most certainly shall then haue Iohn 11. life euerlasting and commeth not into damnation but passeth from death wherein he hath so long bene to life This is the playne text of that place As likewise in all the New Testament lightly euery where life after corporall death signifieth the resurrection of the bodies where the soules be in the meane time here is neuer a word no nor of the Saintes of the old Testament afore the institution of Baptisme wherevnto beliefe in him giueth now accesse Ioa. 1. and 3 that belieuing in him they may haue life Io. 20. But their state we must gather out of other places of holy Scripture And to what end againe you say was Christ called the Lamb that was slayne from the beginning of the world but that the benefite of his passion extendeth vnto the godly of all ages alike This is your expounding of Scripture by Scripture you are a true man of your word The place is Apo. 13. Whose names were not written in the booke of life of the Lambes that was slaine froÌ„ the beginning of the world CoÌ„ferring it with this place Apo. 17. Whose names were not written in the booke of life from the beginning of the world you perceiue the error of your coÌ„struction It is not said that the Lambe was slayne from the beginning of the world but that all the reprobate shall adore Antichrist when he commeth as the Gospell also saith Mat. 24. that the Elect also should be then deceiued if it were possible Neuerthelesse that the Lambe was slayne from the beginning of the world is true though not in your fond
places Nowe what maketh all this for Fulke vnlesse he thinke he hath any vauntage in his owne false translation of Acta turning it Decrees Yea doth it not make against him most inuincibly as all the rest also that S. Augustine hath written against the Donatistes for his Church ours that is for the Church beginning at Hierusalem and thence spreding ouer all Nations to the very last time euen in the same maner altogether as it had done to S. Augustines time iij About certaine Traditions Vpon this question of Onely Scripture I haue stood long because Onely Scripture Onely faith are with the Protestantes all in all howbeit they haue neither Scripture nor Faith Now to dispatche other questions very briefly agaynst certayne Traditions Fulke alleageth saying Beatus Rhenanus a Papist and a great Antiquarie affirmeth that by the Canons of the Nicene Councell and other Councels which he hath seene in Libraries those oblations pro Natalitijs with other superstitions that Tertullian fathereth vpon Tradition of the Apostles were abrogated As touching oblations pro Natalitijs I haue answered in the sixt Chapter Cap. 6. par 1. v. But as for abrogation of any other Traditions Rhenanus hath neuer a word iiij About the mariage of Votaries For the mariage of such as haue vowed virginitie Ar. 45. Pur. 22.23 you alleage one place of Epiphanius thrise another of S. Hieromes twise and all about a matter that we hold euen as they did Thus you saye Epiphanius Hpiph li. 2 Haer. 61. although he count it an offence to marrie after their vowe therein he is with vs you know yet he saith speaking of such as secretly liue in fornication sub specie solitudinis aut continentiae vnder the colour of vowed singlenes or continencie It is better to marrie then to burne that first is not in Epiphanius Melius est itaque vnum peccatum habere non plura It is better to haue one sinne rather then many It is better for him that is fallen from his course wherein he beganne to runne for the Crowne of Virginitie openly to take a wyfe according to the lawe a virginitate multo tempore poenitentiam agere and a long time to repent to do penaunce for breaking that vowe of his virginitie and so hauing done his full penaunce to be brought agayne into the Churche out of the which he was caste as an excommunicate person for breaking his vow as one that hath done amisse as one that is fallen and broken and hauing neede to be bound rather then to be wounded dayly with priuie dartes of that wickednesse whiche the diuell putteth into him So knoweth the Church to preach Haec sunt sanationis medicamenta These are the medicines of healing Whereof you gather and say that Epiphanius calleth marriage of suche men an holsome medicine contrarie to that you confesse your selfe that he calleth it a sinne for so doth the Apostles Tradition saith he vnlesse perhaps you thinke Sinne to be an holsome medicine No syr the holsome medicins are his long penance and his reconcilement to the Church againe But at the least say you Epiphanius alloweth marriage in them whereas the Popish Church did separate them from their wiues in queene Maries time After a solemne vow which is made but only two ways by taking holy orders by professing some common approued rule of Religion to marrie is * Chry. ep 6 ad Theod. MonachuÌ„ lapsum Basil lib. de virginitate no mariage and therevpon it is that no Doctor can be alleaged which alloweth it for mariage if Priests or such professed Monkes and Nunnes do marrie But the sole vow of virginitie and of widowhood is none of those two and therfore but a simple vow and therefore to marrie after it although it be a great mortall sinne yet the mariage holdeth So saith Epiphanius and so say we as some widowes in England hauing taken the mantle and the ring and marrying afterwards can beare vs witnesse whose mariage we haue allowed of though they may not vse it so fréely without iust dispensation as other maried Folke and as their husbandes may because of their vow and cured them by penance reconciliation altogether as Epiphanius here witnesseth of the Church in his time Hie. ad Demetriad tom 1. So is it likewise of the simple vow of virginitie that S. Hierome speaketh saying The name of certayne virgins which behaue them selues not well doth slaunder the holy purpose of virgins and the glory of the heauenly and angelike familie To whoÌ„ must be playnly said vt aut nubant that either they marrie if they can not conteine or els conteine suing to God to giue them strength if they will not marrie We say the same to the same and generally to all others which of two sinnes wil nedes commit one counsayling them rather to commit the lesser then the greater As for example to say that they will come to your schismatical and Heretical seruice when the Commissioners require no more rather then to come vnto it in déede not omitting to tell them withal that they should neither so much as say they wil come because that also is a sinne and a mortall sinne as Epiphanius told those virgins that their mariage also is sinne v. About the Real presence and Transubstantiation About the blessed viuificall Sacrament of the Altar you alleage one Doctor against the Real presence and thrée others agaynst Transubstantiation Pur. 326. It was not the beleefe of S. Augustine nor of any other in that time you say that the Sacrament is the naturall body and bloud of Christ As though it were the mysticall body of Christ which is his Church Vnlesse you finde more then these two his naturall body and his mysticall body Or as though it were not his naturall body which was the morow after his Supper to dye for vs and his naturall bloud which was to be shedde for vs. When will you euer admit any text for plaine and euident Scripture standing so obstinately against these most cléere woords of Christ This is my Body that is geuen and broken for you Luc. 22.1 Cor 11. This is my bloud Mat. 26. Mar. 14. that is shedde for you and for many Luc. 22. Mat. 26. Mar. 14. And what a grosse blindnes is this considering the infinit difference betwene bread and Christ to thinke that being in S. Augustines time taken for bread it could afterward in all Christendome be taken for Christ himselfe and that without all contradiction wheras also at this time you the Sacramentaries could not chaunge the doctrine of it from Christ to bread but heauen and earth cryeth out against you for it not the Catholikes alone but also the Lutherans But S. Augustine forsooth saith Pur. 3â—8 Non hoc corpus quod videtis manducaturi estis c. I will recite the whole circumstance that the world may sée your dealing Aug. in Ps 98. I finde
Psalme is it not a prayer for thē trow you or was not Purgatorie trauelled into Affrike neither when S. Augustine wrote as aboue because there also they caried their corpses with Psalmes In so much that soone after S. Augustines death Victor bishop of Vtica reporting the lamentable deuastations of the Catholike Churches there by the Arrian king Gensericus Victor de pers Vand. li. 1. fol. 3. b. saith among other things Quis vero sustineat sine Lachrymis c. And who can abide without teares to remember when he commaunded our deads corpses to be caryed vnto burying with scilence without the solemnitie of Psalmes Which lamentation you haue in England renewed to vs with addition also in that our Priests neither with scilence may burie the corpses of our Catholike brethren but your Ministers a Gods name with whom they would not communicate in their life must haue the laying vp of their bodies after their death a disordered folly in you Heretikes and the sinne of Schisme in suche Catholikes as geue consent vnto it Pur. 327. from .323 To these memories oblations and sacrifice for the dead doth belong also the place of Possidonius whiche you saye proueth plainly that it was the sacrifice of thanks giuing that was offered for the commendation of the godly and quiet deposition or putting off of his body Where he writeth of S. Augustine thus Nobis coram positis c. In our presence the sacrifice was offered vnto God Possid in vita Aug. cap. 31. for the cōmending of his bodies deposition and so he was buried Meaning by the bodies deposition not the putting off by death but the laying downe of it in the earth by burying as by leuatio corporis the taking vp againe of the bodies or Relikes of Saintes you might haue perceiued if you had beene skilfull in Antiquitie And by commending the deposition he meaneth the commendation of his soule to God vpon that day as I tolde you before Both which you might haue playnly vnderstoode by that which D Allen in the very same paragraph alleageth out of S. Augustine speaking of his mother Aug. 9. cōf ca. 12.14 Nam neque in eis precibus ego fleui quas tibi fundimus cum offeretur pro ea sacrificiū precij nostri iam iuxta sepulchrū posito cadauere priusquam deponeretur For neither in those prayers did I weepe which according to her request vpon her deathbed memoriam sui ad altare tuum fieri that memory of her might be made at thy altar we made vnto thee O God when the sacrifice of our price was offered for her the corpse nowe standing by the graue before it was laide downe Which place is so plaine that your selfe are faine to confesse that in the celebration of the Sacramēt the error of that time allowed prayers for the dead generally and speciall remēbraunce of some in the prayers namely because S. Augustine ther moreouer desireth God to inspire all his Priestes reading that booke Vt meminerint To remember at thy Altar Monica thy seruant and Patrike once her husband my Parents Repeating the same againe a litle after in these words In ministration of the Communion there was a speciall remembrance of her in the prayers as there was of all dead in the faith a generall memorie So that you vse indifferently these two prayers for the dead generally and a generall memory of the dead because you saw euidently that S. Augustine by remembring of his father mother at the Altar meant praying for them And yet such a cauiller you are Fulke the ansvverer Fulke the replier that D. Allen in saying memoriam sui a memory of her to be a memory for her must be charged with pseudologia as though she would haue her sonne to be a chauntrie Priest to sing for her not béeing able for all your gybing to deny but that he did both himselfe pray for her at the Altar if that be to be a Chauntrie Priest and procure other Priests to do the same Well by this practise about S. Monica the Reader perceiueth how properly you affirmed that it was only thanks giuing which Possidonius reporteth was done for S. Augustine But for al this you say although a memory or prayer was made for her in the celebration of the Sacrament yet was it not offered for hir as a Sacrifice and as a propitiation of hir sinnes No syr doth he not say expresly The sacrifice of our price was offered for her Yea but he expounded before in plaine words A friend of trust for Protestants August de verb. Apo. Ser. 34. that he meaneth thereby nothing els but the foresaid memorie Those plaine words neither you recite out of him nor no man els can finde in him as neither he nor any other reasonable man would vtter such a meaning in such words But these most playne words I find in him in another place Hoc a patribus traditum vniuersa obseruat Ecclesia vt pro eis qui in corporis sanguinis Christi communione defuncti sunt cum ad sacrificium salutare loco suo commemorantur oretur This as a Tradition of her Fathers the whole Church obserueth when they which are departed in the cōmunion of Christes body and bloud for the excōmunicate so were not be in their place mentioned at the healthfull sacrifice to pray for them What more Ac pro illis quoque id offerri commemoretur and to expresse that for thē also the sacrifice is offred Of particular Doctors Whether S. Augustine doubted of Purgatory Notwithstanding all this you will néedes haue fooles beléeue that S. Augustine was doubtfull in the matter of Purgatorie notwithstanding also that he so playnly prayeth for his mother Therefore O Lord God Aug. 9. confes 13. setting aside her good dedes for a while for which with ioy I do giue thee thanks Nunc pro peccatis matris meae deprecor te now I beseeche thee for my mothers sinnes for which at this day we also pray for the most Pur. 328. perfect excepting vndoubted Martyrs vntill by Canonization they be knowen to be Saintes Heare me for the medicine of our wounds that hung on the Crosse and sitting at thy right hand intreateth for vs c. So playnely Pur. 327. I say that you confesse this place to proue prayer for the dead vsed by S. Augustine and are fayne to saye It was all but superstition or will worship in him according to the corrupt motion of his owne minde Pur. 270.279.315 Au. ep 64. Enchi c. 110 de cur c. 18. Pu. 54.110 121.161.187 382. In another place also that he alloweth oblations for them that sleepe to profite somewhat Oblationes pro spiritibus dormientium vere aliquid adiuuare credendum est And yet for all this Augustine was very vncertayne you saye very often vnconstant and doubting of it so that Satan whose instrument you make that blessed Doctor was but then laying
of all the Saintes as you may also sée in the Councell of Trent Another poynt of your great skil is where to supply D. Allens lacke Pur. 12. you bring forsooth the right definition or description of an Heretike and say that an Heretike is a man in the Church c. Wherof what pretie conclusions do folow you may consider as because Papistes be Heretikes with you Ministerlike conclusions of Fulke therefore they be in the Church item Anabaptistes Seruetians c. and of old the Arrians Pelagians c. againe on the contrarie side because these are not nor were not by you in the Church therefore they be not Heretikes It foloweth in your definition That obstinatly mainteineth an opinion contrarie to the doctrine of the Scriptures And then you adde Which if any of vs can be proued to doe then let vs not be spared but condemned for Heretikes We say to you the same of any of vs also But you should haue defined also who is obstinate You bring no Scripture against vs but we answere it clearely much lesse do you proue vs to be obstinate But we bring playne Scriptures against you to proue that also the doctrine of the Apostles Traditions is the doctrine of the Scriptures with very many particular pointes of controuersie expresly against you as namely that neither the Church of Christ should euer flye out of sight much lesse any thing neare the yere 607. nor Antichrist reigne so long as from that time nor the day of Iudgement to be so long after the cōming of Antichrist Againe for the Real presence This is my body and so forth And if you also goe about to answere some of our Scriptures it is no otherwise then the Arrians Pelagians c. did in old time who notwithstanding were obstinate against the truth because they yéelded not neither when the Church had giuen her sentence So do we proue you to be obstinate much more then any because you neither yéeld after sentence and also do hold that the Church hath no such authoritie to end contentions Your ignorance in so wondering at D. Allen for saying that a Christian Scholer should first beléeue and after séeke for vnderstanding I noted before cap. 10. Dem. 34. Of the like ignorance it is where you wonder to heare that the Sacrifice of the Masse is a likenesse of the Sacrifice of Christes death vpon the Crosse and say Pur. 200. that it is contrarie to the whole a See here cap. 10. Dem. 24. scope of the Epistle to the Hebrewes that there should be now any shadowes or resemblances when the body and substance it selfe is come As though we had now no Sacramentes at all Do you not know that all Sacramentes be liknesses of other things as S. Augustine whom your selfe somewhere alleage saith Si enim Sacramenta quandam similitudinem c. Aug. ep 23. Pur. 292. Sup. de 24. For if Sacramentes had not a certayne likenes of those thinges whose Sacramentes they be they should not at al be Sacraments And so you may remember that S. Paule him selfe will haue Baptisme to be a likenes or similitude of Christes death Rom. 6. buriall and resurrection As againe S. Augustine in the foresayd place noteth that it is truely sayed Christum immolari quotidie in Sacramento Christ to be sacrificed euery day in the Sacrament although he were but once sacrificed in seipso in him selfe that is in his owne visible and not sacramentall forme because of the likenes in the Sacrament to that immolation vpon the Crosse For there was visible seperation of his Body and Bloud the one from the other Here is mysticall or sacramentall seperation of the same as the sacramentall wordes doe signifie And therefore this seperation is but like to that if we attende the maner of both and yet it is the very same seperation if we attend the thinges that were and are seperated Which D. Allen vttered very aptly in these few wordes It is the selfe same in another maner Pur. 198.201 Whereunto you say that Euery boye in Oxford can tell him that by Logicke like is not the same An high point D. Allen knew it not How then did he say in another maner Did he not thereby geue you the meaning of that Logicall Principle to wit that like is not the same with the same maner But otherwise what boye hath not heard it sayd of one and the same man being chaunged by age sicknes apparell shauing c. He is like or vnlike him selfe Against so playne a declaration you could not replye and yet you must néedes say something but yet that which neither boy nor man nor your selfe can vnderstand This it is to say It is the selfe same in another maner will not helpe so long as the same respect remaineth Which same respect I pray you for I am not so quicke to vnderstand him who vnderstandeth not him selfe For who can imagine that the very same respect remaineth when the same maner doth not remayne Pur. 20.21 Againe where you attribute that to diuorsement which the Scripture in many places both a Mat. 5. Mar. 10. Luc. 16. ◠Cor. 7. deny to diuorsement and doth b Rom. 7. attribute only to death to wit to make her no wife that was a wife there you vtter your great skill in many matters As in saying that such mariage after diuorsement is dispensed withall by the Pope Item that the Popes Canon Law hath farre many more causes of diuorsement then for adulterie which only Christ alloweth and we Mat. 5. quoth you As though also the Canon Law allow not that onely as a cause of perpetuall diuorse in such sort that if the Adulterer become afterwardes neuer so chast yet the innocent cannot be compelled to receaue him againe But otherwise if the mans furie be such that the wife in his house is in continuall feare daunger of her life doe not you also allow her to dwell away from him vntill such time as his amendment doe appeare sufficiently Item you speake there as though Moyses iudiciall Law ought to be still obserued Leu. 20. We wish that adulterers were punished as God commaunded in his Law it followeth and then the other question of Mariages were soone answered As though the man were punished by death if he sinned against his wife with a single woman If not how then is the question of his wiues Mariage with another resolued by his punishment Such is your skill in the Law I note here your ignorance but I mislike not your moderation in saying we wish Why then doe I charge you with such an opinion of that Law For this that you there charge the Catholikes to allow dispensation for such persons to marrie as the Law of God and nature abhorreth What Law of God doe you meane but Leui. 18 Doe you thinke then that Law to binde Christians and that so straightly as neyther to
of his fellowe members here on earth And why is he not of charitie bound as well to pray for them And if he be why are not those members in heauen as well or haue not they also receiued of God some giftes If they haue why are not they of charitie bound as well or doth not the Scripture say plainly the Christes friendes in heauen do reioyce with his penitentes in earth How then coulde you pretend Luc. 15. as though the mutuall offices of loue whereby one member hath compassion with another can by no meanes touch the state of the dead Is not the state of the holy Angels now the state also of some that be dead Be not they also among Christes friendes in heauen So much you say touching the Communion of the Church militant here on earth For you haue another besides it which you call the communion of the whole body that you make to be the participation of life from Christ the head If that be all then is there no Communion For what communion were it betwéene the members of your naturall body if they did onely receiue life from your head and could not vse their said life to profit one another but liued euery one to himselfe alone How much better had you bene to follow D. Allens most proper and true discription of it then to vtter thus you know not what at the least if you could not correct him yet you could belye him as to say that he will haue other workes and wayes of saluation beside the bloud of Christ He saith that in this Communion all workes and all wayes of saluation are common to the whole body al grounded in the bloud of Christ But of any beside the bloud of Christ he saith not Yea it is clene contrarie to that which he saith ¶ The .13 Chapter or Conclusion That in his two writings against D. Allen there is yet stuffe ynough to make another Booke as bigge as this to the further discredite of his partie THus at the length with the helpe of God I am come to the end And yet the Reader must vnderstande that I finde in this man such store of this stuffe as would suffice to make another volume as big as this partly by enlarging these two last Chapters with many more of his like contradictions errors or ignorances for all the former Chapters be full freyted partly by making many new Chapters vpon new matters As one to shewe howe he behaueth himselfe in all places where he chargeth either the Catholikes doctrine or D. Allen himselfe with contradictions Another to lay together all his falsifications of the Scriptures Doctors and D. Allen by adding diminishing or chaunging their wordes Another of his most impudent facing lyes without any colour of truth Another of his detestable raylings not only at D. Allen but also at the old Doctors and at Rome and at the whole Churche which he can not auoide the Scriptures with his owne confession are so plaine for it but it is the true Church his owne Mother and Spouse of Christ Another of his ridiculous answeres to many of D. Allens Demaundes sometimes like him that answered a pokefull of plumes whē he was demaunded the way to London sometimes to answere the very same thing that is in question c. Moreouer diuers others chapters yet of Purgatorie about his answeres to D. Allens allegations to sée whether he haue so answered thē as I haue here answered al his allegations against it yea against any other Article of ours One of those Chapters might be to gather all the Scriptures alleaged by D. Allen the auncient Fathers before him and Fulkes answeres vnto them with my replies which are e dispersed in this booke like as in the 8. chapter I haue gathered al Fulkes scriptures answered thē Another of such bookes in antiquitie as he denyeth namely the workes of S. Dionysius Areopagita and the Constitutions of the Apostles by S. Clement because he could not otherwise auoide their plaine testimonies for prayer for the dead they also liuing euen in the Apostles time and familiarly with the Apostles Of which bookes notwithstanding there are such probations as can not possibly be answered Reade the Preface of Fr. Turrianus in his new edition of those Constitutions and the Preface of Mat. Galenus ad Areopagitica Cop. Dial. 2. ca. 5. as also the Preface and Scholies in the Gréeke edition by Morelius at Paris Anno. 1562. In another Chapter I might shew how vainely he laboureth to answer certaine testimonies of the other Doctors considering that he graunteth other testimonies of the very same Doctors them selues or of their seuerall times to be so euident for it that they can not be answered for which cause also he passeth by many of them with silence as that S. Augustine in one place prayed for his mothers soule and yet to stand with D. Allen about other places of his that they proue it not as though Doctors opinion and iudgement being confessed there néedeth any more to doe to be made about his sayings And yet it is nothing also which he answereth to those other places as I haue shewed in very many of them Another might be to lay together all D. Allens argumentes or reasons for it with my replies to Fulkes answeres such as I haue made in diuers places of this booke In another I could shewe that Fulke hath made no answere lightly to these Scriptures Doctors or reasons but D. Allen did foresée it afore hand warned the Reader of it and made so iust a replie vnto it as standeth still vpright euen after that Fulke hath done the worst he could Another might be to shew out of Iustinus Martyr Ireneus and Clement Alexandrinus in how many things they also make with vs most euidētly as in nothing against vs because he doth so oftē require vs to proue prayer for the dead by any of them as though he would yéeld to them although he will not to their fellowes wheras in déede he excepteth against them no lesse as I haue shewed then against the rest Another might be by occasion of his zeale for Caluine Luther and such other his Maisters and fellowes to shewe more copiously that they are worthily charged not onely with those shamefull opinions by D. Allen but also that they may be likewise charged with very many moe no lesse yea and much more shamefull then those These matters are such as being so handled would worke the further discredite of Fulke and of his side and yet being no more handled then alreadie doe leaue no blotte in our side no nor so much as in D. Allen particularly For which cause I minde not neither hereafter to prosecute them vnlesse I haue greater occasion geuen then yet I sée But presently I omitted them to auoide more prolixitie and specially because in this booke I tooke in hand to defend not D. Allen but the Church and therefore whatsoeuer