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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A02291	The ciuile conuersation of M. Steeuen Guazzo written first in Italian, and nowe translated out of French by George Pettie, deuided into foure bookes. In the first is conteined in generall, the fruites that may bee reaped by conuersation ... In the second, the manner of conuersation ... In the third is perticularly set foorth the orders to bee obserued in conuersation within doores, betwéene the husband and the wife ... In the fourth, the report of a banquet; Civil conversatione. Book 1-3. English	Guazzo, Stefano, 1530-1593.; Pettie, George, 1548-1589.	1581 (1581)	STC 12422; ESTC S105850	262,636	366

attributed to the house wée came of Another Philosopher affirmeth likewise that it is in vaine called gentry whiche referring it selfe to the worthinesse of blood is not ours but others And therefore the light of another cannot make mée shine if there be no brightnesse in my selfe Guaz. That is noted to vs by the saying of Dant that only he is bright who shineth of him selfe Annib. A mā may also adde here the saying of our Galen that those who béeing voide of vertue themselues haue recourse to the cognisances and armes of their predecessours sée not how that vaineglorie is like certaine kinde of coyne which is currant in those townes and places where it hath béen stamped and made but it cannot bée put away in other places but is taken for counterfayte and naught But I wil not here omit that which is excellently written in a letter by his brother Frauncis Coronato our Academike doctour in diuinitie that they are to bée laughed at whiche take so much vppon them to put difference betwéene themselues and other as if they had béen made by some other creatour then God for that the fleshe maketh no difference nor one more excellent then another And though a vessel of gold bée more estéemed then one of Copper for that it is of more precious and fine matter yet that cannot bée saide of vs who come all of one lumpe of fleshe Yea the soule it self maketh no difference betwéene vs for so much as wée come all of one father and creatour But that which putteth a differēce betwéene vs is the vertue of the minde So that neither in respect of the master nor of the fourme nor of the mind considered of it selfe but in respect of the vertue gotten acquired by our owne industry wée are more excellent one then another And therof we may nowe sée that touching the original wée are all one thing and as one sayde wée are all made of durt and as wée haue one selfe beginning so haue wée likewise one selfe ende Wherefore wée are to conclude that gentry and renowme is not got by our birth but by our life yea and sometyme by our death according to that saying A worthy death doeth honour al our life Guaz. It may be well sayde also that a right Gentleman is not borne as the Poet but made as the Oratour Annib. It is saide also that philosophy receiued not Plato a Gentleman but made him one Guaz. Yet for al that in my opinion it is a good thing to be discended of a good and honorable house Annib. I graunt you that for gentle race besides other good effects maketh a man ashamed to degenerate from the vertue and valour of his auncestours Yea and gentry is to be honored for this respect that for the most part the better lineage we come of the better behauiour wee are of And therefore Q. Max Scipio and others said that beholding the pictures and ymages of their auncestours they felt themselues maruaylously stirred vp to vertue Wheretoo princes haue a regard indeuouring alwaies to make gentlemen their chiefe officers And truely it happeneth seldom that he doeth ill who séeth thereby the honour of his auncestours together with his owne brought in danger Guaz. There remaineth for you now to speake of the third sort of halfe Gentlemen Annib. I néed not vse many words to you touching that sorte and it sufficeth to say that those same get their gentry by custome and that this gentry is so weake that it extēdeth not generally but hath place only in some part And albeeit a com●●● soldiour or a merchant or other liuing of his owne reuenewes bee not altogether taken for a Gentleman yet there are some countries and townes where according to the custome or by some other accident they are taken for Gentlemen and admitted indifferently into the companie of Gentlemen And there fore according to that common opinion those same may be called Gentlemen in their countrie but not else where Guaz. In few woordes your minde is that those amongst the Italians Spaniards Frenchmen Lombardes or of any other nation are Gentlemen which are termed taken so and that a man may bee a gentleman or a yoman according to the custome of the place where hee is out of which he shal be otherwise by a contrary custome Annib. My meaning is euen so But séeing wee haue spoken sufficiently of halfe Gentlemen let vs speake nowe of Gentlemen which haue the two fiest kindes of gentry ioined together to witte that by blood and that by vertue The Philosophers make great account of gentry by birth when it is accompanied with vertue without whiche it may bée said to be dead as a body without breath And therefore if wée looke thorowly into the matter wée shall finde that it happeneth seldome that a house doth maintaine it selfe long in honour without vertue or is able to rise to high estate dignitie For if one of base calling giue the beginning to gentry by the excellencie of some vertue that is a certaine signe that vertue is the foundation of gentry and that to maintaine gentry it is necessarie to maintaine the foundation thereof Guazzo In trueth gentry is vnséemely without vertue and in my opinion one that is borne a Gentleman is not woorthy of account when hée is not indued with good conditions Annib. Leauing then the wrong opinion of some countries to come néere to the ancient maiestie of the Romanes wée wil hold for certaine that gentry increaseth no lesse by the vertue of learning then by the prowesse of arme● For that this saying is most true that gentry is the daughter of knowledge and that knowledge doeth gentellise him that possesseth it And therefore the science and knowledge of good letters béeing no lesse to be estéemed of then the knowledge of martiall feates it is certaine that the gentry of the one is no lesse then of the other But for all this wee must not thinke it sufficient for vs to bée knowen to bée but indifferently learned and vertuous but wee must indeuour to attaine to excellencie therein For the more good partes bée in a man the more Gentlemanlike hée is sayde to bée And I can not héere but speake of the folly of some Gentlemen who hauing nothing but gentry by byrth to bragge of are not ashamed to say that they are as good Gentlemen as the Emperour as if a Gentleman could not increase in gentry And not considering that there are degrées of gentry as wel as of dignities and honours and that one is so much more Gentleman * by birth * then another by howe muche his gentry is more auncient more renowmed more manifest and more mightie Which may bée sayde not only in respect of birth but also in respect of vertue And as of the twoo dogs which Lycurgus brought before the Spartanes which though they came both of one lytter yet the one ran to the potage pot the other at the hare so of two

chamber to make our prayers it was spoken onely to reprehend hypocrites which vsed to knéele praying openly at the endes of stréetes with their solemne and counterfeite deuotion to make the people returne to beholde them to admire them and to repute them for men of a holy life For wée sée that GOD hath appointed the Churche for Christians to assemble in And albeit in all places deuout and earnest prayers are acceptable vnto him yet wee are bound to goe seeke him in the holy Church ordeined to that end where either by reason of the most holy Sacramentes whiche are there often celebrated either by reason of the deuout prayers of others wée are stirred vp to prayer with more feruent zeale and affection Besides we sée that the religious do not make their praiers apart but by the ordinances of the Church they assemble togeather in one Quire where ioyning their voyces together they make as it were of many mindes one onely framing a harmonie of diuine prayses and deuout praiers for the peace of GOD for the saluation of mankinde And that congregation doeth not onely call men dayly from their worldly workes to diuine seruice but besides hath great power and is verie acceptable in the sight of God Wherevpon some haue saide that it is impossible the praiers made by many together shoulde not bée graunted Neither doeth it any thing remooue mée out of my setled opinion the example which you propose of many who of fleshly are become spirituall of wealthie are willingly entred into miserie and from their stately Palaces haue vowed themselues to beggerly monasteries for these same though they haue the name of solitarie for that they are seuered from vs in this temporall life yet they are gathered and assembled togeather in their Couents where they not onely liue and pray together amongest themselues but also vse conuersation with vs in preaching teaching and doeing other thinges which apperteine to the profite of our soules On the other side wée secular men which haue more inticements to do amisse must consider that God hath giuen is Roses beset with thornes the swéete with the sower and hath giuen vs vnderstanding to discerne their qualities difference And though it were so that as you say a man can neither sée nor heare the thing which maketh not the right way to saluation rugged vneasie yet for all that a good Christian ought not to stray out of it but to haue in minde this saying That euerie commoditie bringeth with it a discommoditie And when hée seeth him selfe assailed either with the temptation of pleasures or the vexation of troubles then is the time to get the garland by breaking in sunder those hookes and holdbacks you spake of but now for you know we must enter into the kingdome of heauen through tribulations troubles And although hée do wisely who to fly the combat of the fleshe against the spirit retireth into some obscure solitarie place yet cōsider the great vertue singular merite of him who being placed in the midst of pleasures forbeareth them maketh a conquest of him selfe think also with your selfe how curious these solitary men are of their quiet who wil neither sée nor heare the plaintes of other neither are partakers of our losse and hurts neither are subiect to the iniuries the threates the blowes the persecutions the outrages daungers ruines which this poore vale of miserie is full of Neither likewise doth the example of those first fathers make against me who were not so giuen to solitarinesse but that they had a care ouer their neighbors which they manifested by more workes then you haue néed to heare or I leasure to count I deny not but Adam was happie while he liued in solitarinesse but for all that you do not perceiue that God in giuing him company ment also to shew vnto vs that Conuersation liked him wel The last example of Christ cōteines in it a hidden meaning different frō the doings of men for in praying fasting and mourning in the wildernesse his meaning was if I bee not deceiued to let a Christiā know that to reape the fruites of those labours it behooueth him to solitary him selfe from sin calling his wādring mind to this reckoning it behoueth him to kéepe it solitarie from al other thoughtes For if with the sadnesse of the countenance the fasting of the body and the prayers of the mouth the heart neither prayeth fasteth nor mourneth Christ is not imitated but it is the act of an hypocrite who as the Poet saieth couereth his conceits with a contrarie cloake And if besides these woorkes of Christ hée had not béen conuersable it had not gone well with vs for that disputing preaching healing the sicke making the blinde to sée raysing the dead to life hée was conuersant amongst vs the space of so many yéeres with so many discommodities and in the ende shed his innocent blood for our redemptiō Séeing then while hée liued amongst vs hée left vs an example and way which wée ought to vse in conuersation in my opinion you were to blame to curse him who first with so great discretiō gathered together the scattered people which had not I confesse the knowledge of vices which raigne in cities and townes marry no more had they the knowledge of sciences of honest and ciuile behauiour of friendship of handicrafts of woorkemanships by meanes whereof they made themselues differ from sauadge beasts whom before they did resemble And therfore it may iustly bée saide that who so leaueth the ciuile society to place himselfe in some solitarie desert taketh as it were the forme of a beast and in a certaine manner putteth vppon him selfe a brutishe nature So the common saying is that there is no other name méete for a solitarie person but either of a beast or a tyrant For that hée doeth violence to beasts seasing and possessing himselfe of forrests of tops of mountaines of their dennes caues and blinde abydings Not séeing that the citie and assemblies of people are made to founde the temple of iustice and to appoint a law and forme to mans life which before was disordered imperfect You adde afterward that learned men and those of good wits make no account but of the solitarie life and you bring forth the philosophers comtemners of the multitude and louers of solitarinesse I might heere take large scope to make you answere but vsing al the briefnesse I can I say only that those excellent men in learning and science loue solitary places not by nature but for lacke of their like with whom they may be conuersant and I graunt you that there is nothing more displeasant to the learned then the companie of the ignorant which falleth out of the great diuersitie and difference which is betwéene them But as the learned flye the ignorant so they willingly séeke the companie of other that are learned with whom stirred by a certaine vertuous ambition they make proofe

ought to respect the qualities and vertues whiche are in the parties themselues and that it is in vaine to stand vpon the renowme of our progenitours Next vnto this first kind foloweth the second of Gentlemen by good conditions Guaz. Which take you to be the best of those two Annib. Whether do you more account of those things which are gottē with labour and industrie or of those which nature or fortune bestoweth vpon vs Guaz. Why the first Annib. And whether doe you thinke more excellent of the giftes of the mind or of the body Guaz. The giftes of the minde Annib. Consider now that gentry by byrth costeth you nothing but that you haue it by succession mary gentry by vertue you haue gotten hardly hauing first passed thorowe the pykes and a thousande daungers Moreouer wée are to consider that gentry by blood belongeth to the body but gentry by good conditions hath relation to the mind Which made the tyrant Phalaris say béeing demaunded what hée thought of gentry that hée acknowledged gentry to come onely by the meanes of vertue and al other things by the meanes of fortune for that one of base birth may become most noble aboue all kings and contrariwise one wel borne may become the most wretched and contemtible of the worlde and that therefore wée are to boast of the giftes of the minde not of the gentry of our auncestours which is alredie extinguished by the vnknowen and degenerated posteritie * Whervpon I thinke them worthy of great commendation who from very lowe place with the ladder of their owne vertue climbe to most respected highnesse As many Popes Emperours and kings haue done béeing the sonnes of very meane men * Guaz. Yet for al that you sée how the world commēly reputeth gentry by byrth as legitimate and gentry by vertue as bastardily and farre inferiour to the other And if you do but sounde the opinion of the Gentlemen of this Citie they will I warrant you in a manner all of them say vnto you that they had rather bée borne Gentlemen and haue nothing in the worlde but their rapier and cloake then to bée discended of base parentage and to bée Senatours or Presidents Annib. It is reported that the foxe cast his tayle about a yong tréeful of fruite to the intent to shake it make the fruites fal to the ground but fayling of his purpose he went his way finding fault with y e fruite saying they were without tast and not good ynough for him The like doe those whom you speake of who being not by vertue able to aspire to those degrées mislike of the degrées and of those persons who by their vertue haue attained vnto them But assure your selfe that those which hold that erronious opinion are for the most part voide of vertue But if you shal talke with a Gentleman that is so by birth who by the helpe either of learning or of armes hath gotten this second gentry he wil no doubt make more account of the gentry purchased by his owne vertue then of that which is discended vnto him by birth So that I meruaile nothing though that common opinion take place séeing that the number of Gentlemen without vertue is farre greater then of those which bée vertuous Yet you remember that it was sayde yesterday that the common opinion consisteth not in the number but in the qualitie of the persons and therefore the opinion which you haue brought foorth shall not bée called common Guaz. This same is one of the abuses of diuers countries specially of Fraunce where learning is so litle accoūted of that a Gentleman though he bee scarce able to maintaine himselfe thinketh scorne too applye his minde too the studie either of the lawes or of phisick And though there be no gentrie in a manner to bée compared to that of the Presidentes and Counsellours of the King yet you sée those that are Gentlemen borne count them to bee but base and ignoble But I haue séene many rightly serued for this their corrupt opinion or rather obstinacie For I haue séene one of these Counsellours or Presidents to kéepe their state suffer these Gentlemen which haue occasion to vse them to knocke a great while at their gates and when they are come in they walke long time in the Court or in the hall of the house before they shall be admitted to their presence and they are driuen oftentimes after that he shal be mounted in hast vpon his Mule to goe to the Palace to lackey after like slaues so infourme him of their causes sutes But there was nothing in Fraunce which went more against my stomacke then to see the Secretaries of noble men in so litle credite and reputation whereas in Italy the Secretaries of Princes are had in great honor and iustly for that they are partakers of their inward thoughtes and the kéepers as it were vpon trust of their honor estimation And in Fraunce he that hath a seruant which can coppie out writinges and kéepe count of his reuenewes in a booke he giueth him forthwith the name of Secretarie Annib. I haue reasoned many times with your brother about that matter who amongst other pleasant matters tolde mée that in the voyage which hee made last by post in Fraunce being sent by the Duke our maister to the King being to chaunge Horses in a certaine place the Post-maister came vnto him and called twise aloude Secretary and foorthwith there came out of the stable a foule great Groome with a pen inkehorne at his girdle and a pen at his eare who had charge giuen him to make ready thrée horses whervpon the secretary set hand to the harnesse sadled one of thē two other seruāts did the like one of which your brother asked why his maister made y e secretary dresse horse who answered that his maister tooke him for a Groome of the stable for their companion about y e loking to the horse but for that hée coulde wryte and keepe a reckoning of the horses which were let out his Maister had like wyse made him his secretary Guaz. Hee might wel say hée was secretarie in Vtroque to wit with the pen and the currycombe Annib. Hée sayde moreouer that when the Duke of Neuers sent him to the lodging of some Prince or of the great chauncelour or some other he was soone let in if he termed himself one of the Dukes gentlemen but if hee named himselfe secretarie they made him tarie longer and regarded him the lesser Nowe to returne to my purpose I say againe that the Gentleman by vertue is more excellent then the Gentleman by birth Yea I coulde say vnto you that many count gentry by blood to bée foolish and nothing at all and amongst others a certaine wise man saide that gentry of the minde is to bée indued with woorthy thoughts and the gentry of the body is the gentlemanlike minde meaning that the gentry of the body was not to bée

either by flatterie either by promoting either by ●laundering or by false accusing and other naughtie meanes whiche those that are learned will neuer lightly vse but enough of this And for that wée saide but erewhile that the learned receiueth great contentment in the companie of the vnlearned let vs nowe consider howe little that contentment is in respect of that whiche he receiueth being in the companine of his like For no doubt a learned man taketh much more pleasure in the company of the learned who know yea and allowe better of his learning then in the company of the ignorant who vnderstande it not so well neither are able to iudge of it Besides when hée is amongest the ignorant hée taketh pleasure only in that which hée himselfe giueth But when hée is with the learned he delighteth both in it which hée giueth that hée receiueth for that by turnes hée doeth both teach and learne Moreouer hée hath a nother contentment to know that where is greatest conformitie in estate in life and in study there is greatest agréement in good will and amitie and consequently greater pleasure and contentment * yea that effect is bred among thē which is found amongst flowers which being separated one from another giue a good smell but being bounde together in a posie they recreate the spirites a great deale more like as it was well saide by a Poet Two good men ioyned together doe in goodnesse more excel And roses ioyned with lielies haue a great deale sweeter smell Yea it is a Philosophers saying that one in comparison of two is no bodie * And truely amongest all other companies and societies there is not any more firmely and néerely linked together then this of the learned who for the most part loue better amongest themselues then kinsfolke and brethren doe agreeing in like studies and like affections they can not but take pleasure one in another and reduce them selues from the number of many as it were into one vnited body Guaz. All other assemblies may be well termed strange and externall and this same familiar and internal wherein the mindes are exercised in reasoning teaching and discoursing of things which appertaine to the knowledge of vertue and goodnesse And these are the true freendships which last long Annib. It is a common saying that the bondes of vertue binde more straightly then the bondes of blood And in trueth one good man may be sayd to be a néere kinsman to another good man by the conformitie of their minds and manners * Guaz. Héereby I imagine how great the concorde the pleasure the profit is which is reaped by the Academie of the illustratie as they tearme them established in this citie Annib. You are deceiued in your imagination for this Academy being assembled in the name of God you may well thinke that he is in the midst of them and that hee mainteineth it in peace and amitie What comfort euery one receiueth by it I cannot sufficiently set foorth vnto you for that I haue tried in my selfe and seene plainely in other Academikes that there is not any one so afflicted with the common miseries of this citie and with his priuate troubles who setting once his foote into the hal of the Academie seemeth not to ariue at the hauen of tranquilitie and beginneth not to cléere his minde of care casting his eyes about the hall to see those goodly deuises full of profounde mysteries I may well say of my selfe that when my bodie is shut within it all my yrkesome thoughtes are shut out the which attend me at the doore and at my going out get vppon my shoulders but touching the good which commeth of his happie assembly you may be assured in thinking to your selfe what diuersitie of learning is there handled sometimes with publike lectures sometimes with priuate reasoninges which breede that delight which commeth of giuing and receiuing as we haue sayde before And I may say without arrogancie that the Academie borrowing me as it were to reade in Philosophie hath payed mee home with interrest béeing not onely bettered in that parte but also moued with some knowledge in diuinitie poetrie and other laudable sciences whereof I knowe I am not altogether voide Guaz. I haue noted by long experience that for the most parte those are smally accounted of in companie which haue bestowed al their studie in one onely profession For drawing them once out of that you shall finde them very sottes and fooles Whereas on the contrary those are very well thought of who besides their chiefe profession are able to discourse reasonablie well and with discretion of other matters In so much that the knowledge they shew in those bye matters bringeth them so much the more honour by how much they are estraunged from their ordinary profession Wherefore seeing in companie wee commonly deuise of diuerse thinges leaping from one matter into another there is nothing in my iudgement that doeth vs more honour or maketh vs better liked of in good companie then to be readie at all assayes and haue a mouth for euery matter to be able to perfourme which I consider that the companie of many learned men is very auaileable like as that of the Academies is Annib. We haue alredie sayde that it is not in one man to speake sufficiently of all thinges by reason of the shortenesse of his lyfe but for so much as all learning is not in one alone it is good that manie assemble togeather to make amongest them one perfect man as it falleth out in those learned companies Guaz. Seeing the conuersation of these Academikes is so auayleable I looke you shoulde set downe some orders for them which they ought to obserue to mainteine themselues long in agréement and amitie Annib. I should thinke I should commit a fault if I should speake any thing of that for that it were according too the Prouerb to instruct Minerua knowing that it is in them rather to teach then to be taught the orders of conuersation Besides that they haue lawes and orders set downe in writing by force whereof friendship and concord is inuiolably kept amongest them Guaz. I pray you yet at the least to tell and recount vnto me the order of the Academie of the illustrati in this citie and to declare vnto me the originall of it and what is the manner of their conuersation together Annib. If I should throughly satisfie your request this day would not be enough to doe it but to content you somewhat I briefly say vnto you that these Academikes desirous to trauayle continually for their owne glorie the vniuersall benefite haue proposed vnto themselues the enterprise of the sunne which going out of the Horizon ascendeth to the opposite of the moone which setteth in the West and vpon this deuise are set these wordes Lux indeficiens with the name of Illustrati The lawes of the Academie are a great manie but they are referred al chiefly to the honour of God